From ron.silliman  Mon Aug  2 07:28:13 2004
From: ron.silliman (Ron)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:28:13 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <000601c47883$cfa25df0$6501a8c0@Dell>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT TOPICS:

To construct a community:
Tucson & the work of Tenney Nathanson

Spring & All, Roots and Branches
and Charles Bernstein's The Sophist

To construct a book:
The pterodactyl in the garden
(Charles Bernstein's The Sophist)

The text, the beloved?
Charles Bernstein's The Simply
(is not) -
Opening The Sophist

Getting ready (or not)
for The Sophist

Ron Silliman - forthcoming readings
Seattle, NYC, SF,
Lawrence Kansas,
Philly & DC

What happens when you read poetry
for the very first time?

English as percussion -
On Clark Coolidge's ear

Blogging & public intellectuals -
The New York Review of Books:
Stillborn again

What is the role of expectation in art?

An MFA student asks
where to begin

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/






From writerslink  Mon Aug  2 09:29:18 2004
From: writerslink (Chris Mansell)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:29:18 +1000
Subject: new poetry list[New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
In-Reply-To: <000601c47883$cfa25df0$6501a8c0@Dell>
Message-ID: <BD347ECE.61FA%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>

Ron your blog seems to be blocked. It won't load. Is anyone else having this
problem?

All the best
Chris 

--
Chris Mansell
www.chris.mansell.name
www.presspress.com.au

On 2/8/04 9:28 PM, "Ron" <ron.silliman at verizon.net> wrote:

> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
> 
> RECENT TOPICS:




From anny.ballardini  Mon Aug  2 13:28:42 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:28:42 +0200
Subject: new poetry list[New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
References: <BD347ECE.61FA%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <000701c478b6$284f8ea0$4e607550@yourpk9x5fuc06>

I have the same prob.
 Anny


From: "Chris Mansell" <writerslink at ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:29 PM


> Ron your blog seems to be blocked. It won't load. Is anyone else having
this
> problem?
>
> All the best
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Mansell
> www.chris.mansell.name
> www.presspress.com.au
>
> On 2/8/04 9:28 PM, "Ron" <ron.silliman at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
> >
> > RECENT TOPICS:
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From JforJames  Mon Aug  2 22:27:03 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:27:03 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry via Wittgenstein
Message-ID: <154.3b65d880.2e4051f7@aol.com>

http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/philosophy_and_literature/v027/27.1pierce.pdf

If you are interested in the insoluble questions,
here's a free article from Project Muse.
The author uses Wittgenstein's concept
of "family resemblance" to discuss what it is
that makes a poem a 'poem'.
Finnegan
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From bobgrumman  Tue Aug  3 07:09:22 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 07:09:22 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry via Wittgenstein
References: <154.3b65d880.2e4051f7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005501c4794a$56d22550$45efa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>


If you are interested in the insoluble questions,
here's a free article from Project Muse.
The author uses Wittgenstein's concept
of "family resemblance" to discuss what it is
that makes a poem a 'poem'.
Finnegan 
The definition of poetry is not insoluble just because there will always be people who refuse to accept its definition.  As for the "family resemblance" definition given in the essay James sends us to, it's neither new nor useful.  The essay merely proves the valuelessness of Wittgenstein.

--Bob G.


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From marcus  Tue Aug  3 08:07:10 2004
From: marcus (Marcus Bales)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 08:07:10 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry via Wittgenstein
In-Reply-To: <005501c4794a$56d22550$45efa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <410F47AE.17527.4B42F6@localhost>

On 3 Aug 2004 at 7:09, Bob Grumman wrote:
> The definition of poetry is not insoluble just because there will
> always be people who refuse to accept its definition. As for the
> "family resemblance" definition given in the essay James sends us to,
> it's neither new nor useful. The essay merely proves the valuelessness
> of Wittgenstein. --Bob G. 

I do not agree with most of Mr Pierce's proposal, either, but Mr 
Grumman's ignorance of philosophy and science is even more profound 
than even I thought if he really means to stand by the notion that 
Wittgenstein's work is valueless. 

Marcus





From bobgrumman  Tue Aug  3 10:04:45 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:04:45 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry via Wittgenstein
References: <410F47AE.17527.4B42F6@localhost>
Message-ID: <00b901c47962$ea1028e0$45efa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> > The definition of poetry is not insoluble just because there will
> > always be people who refuse to accept its definition. As for the
> > "family resemblance" definition given in the essay James sends us to,
> > it's neither new nor useful. The essay merely proves the valuelessness
> > of Wittgenstein. --Bob G.
>
> I do not agree with most of Mr Pierce's proposal, either, but Mr
> Grumman's ignorance of philosophy and science is even more profound
> than even I thought if he really means to stand by the notion that
> Wittgenstein's work is valueless.
>
> Marcus

Nothing's valueless.  Make that "close to valueless."  (Don't worry, James.
I think Marcus has made his point, and I mine, so we won't start another
MarcusBob.)

--Bob G.





From halvard  Tue Aug  3 11:14:06 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:14:06 -0400
Subject: new poetry list[New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
In-Reply-To: <000701c478b6$284f8ea0$4e607550@yourpk9x5fuc06>
References: <BD347ECE.61FA%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>
	<000701c478b6$284f8ea0$4e607550@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <f160a12104080308146d6867f9@mail.gmail.com>

Just for the record, accessing Ron's blog hasn't been
a problem here.

Hal

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:28:42 +0200, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
> I have the same prob.
> Anny
> 
> From: "Chris Mansell" <writerslink at ozemail.com.au>
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:29 PM
> 
> > Ron your blog seems to be blocked. It won't load. Is anyone else having
> this
> > problem?
> >
> > All the best
> > Chris
> >
> > --
> > Chris Mansell
> > www.chris.mansell.name
> > www.presspress.com.au
> >
> > On 2/8/04 9:28 PM, "Ron" <ron.silliman at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > RECENT TOPICS:
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


-- 
Hal                Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam.

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard



From crystallyn  Tue Aug  3 21:49:42 2004
From: crystallyn (Crystal King)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:49:42 -0400
Subject: new poetry list[New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
In-Reply-To: <f160a12104080308146d6867f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BD347ECE.61FA%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>
	<000701c478b6$284f8ea0$4e607550@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<f160a12104080308146d6867f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d03e49bc04080318492a7e73cd@mail.gmail.com>

Try reloading if it hangs...Blogspot often has problems with loading.
I can access it okay but I have often had problems with blogspot sites
in the past.

Crystal

........................................................
Hitch your wagon to a star. ~ Emerson

www.plumrubyreview.com



From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 04:32:49 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 04:32:49 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list 
Message-ID: <1dd.28080a3d.2e434ab1@aol.com>

Hey people
im ria. a stay at home mum and student with university of maryland working  
for my batchelors in psychology.
Im married to a usaf service member and we are currently in england right  
now until 2006.
our children are Amber (3) and Marcus(2)
In my spare time i love photography, art, computers but my main passion is  
poetry and creative writing.
I recently had one of my poems published back in the early part of the  year.
i look forward to getting to know everyone...
talk to you soon
Ria C
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From elemenope  Thu Aug  5 01:34:30 2004
From: elemenope (ELEMENOPE Productions)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:34:30 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
In-Reply-To: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>

Ria:

Glad to see you.  And, please, forward thanks to your husband for his service.

Best,

Richard Dillon

ELEMENOPE Productions



>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 04:32:49 EDT
>From: LiquidLoveGate at aol.com
>Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list
>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>Message-ID: <1dd.28080a3d.2e434ab1 at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hey people
>im ria. a stay at home mum and student with university of maryland working 
>for my batchelors in psychology.
>Im married to a usaf service member and we are currently in england right 
>now until 2006.
>our children are Amber (3) and Marcus(2)
>In my spare time i love photography, art, computers but my main passion is 
>poetry and creative writing.
>I recently had one of my poems published back in the early part of the  year.
>i look forward to getting to know everyone...
>talk to you soon
>Ria C


-- 



From kpaul  Thu Aug  5 13:55:54 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:55:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] a favor?
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
Message-ID: <20040805125508.H87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>

Can anyone backchannel Marcus and ask if he's gotten my emails. If so, 
I'll stop sending them. I'm not sure, though, if he's ignoring me or not 
getting them.

thanks!
kpaul
mallasch.com/mug/




From kpaul  Thu Aug  5 13:56:09 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:56:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
Message-ID: <20040805125601.M87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>

Welcome aboard. :)

-kpaul
mallasch.com/mug/

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:

> Ria:
>
> Glad to see you.  And, please, forward thanks to your husband for his 
> service.
>
> Best,
>
> Richard Dillon
>
> ELEMENOPE Productions
>
>
>
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 04:32:49 EDT
>> From: LiquidLoveGate at aol.com
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list
>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> Message-ID: <1dd.28080a3d.2e434ab1 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Hey people
>> im ria. a stay at home mum and student with university of maryland working 
>> for my batchelors in psychology.
>> Im married to a usaf service member and we are currently in england right 
>> now until 2006.
>> our children are Amber (3) and Marcus(2)
>> In my spare time i love photography, art, computers but my main passion is 
>> poetry and creative writing.
>> I recently had one of my poems published back in the early part of the 
>> year.
>> i look forward to getting to know everyone...
>> talk to you soon
>> Ria C
>
>
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 15:09:19 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:09:19 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
Message-ID: <1d6.27e96ee7.2e43dfdf@aol.com>

thanks for thw welcomes.. it means alot..
so what goes on around here.
are there many that post frequently.
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From kpaul  Thu Aug  5 15:12:52 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:12:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
In-Reply-To: <1d6.27e96ee7.2e43dfdf@aol.com>
References: <1d6.27e96ee7.2e43dfdf@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040805141143.W53384@kpaul.spinweb.net>

We have ups and down, spiffs and fights, make-ups, etc. ;)

Some pass on word of being published, some send poems by others, some 
debate what the meaning of the word 'is' is ...

-kpaul

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 LiquidLoveGate at aol.com wrote:

> thanks for thw welcomes.. it means alot..
> so what goes on around here.
> are there many that post frequently.
>



From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 15:19:12 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:19:12 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
Message-ID: <8e.11868018.2e43e230@aol.com>

Sounds like my kinda thing. i always have something to say lol and if i  
wasnt interested in poetry i wouldnt be here now would i  ?!
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From gmguddi  Thu Aug  5 15:22:38 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 14:22:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
In-Reply-To: <20040805125601.M87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
	<20040805125601.M87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040805142155.0306d3e8@mail.ilstu.edu>


Republicans: A Prose Poem
Eliot Weinberger

"They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
and freedom, and individual liberty."
President George W. Bush

"I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
Vice-President Dick Cheney
-------------------------

Thomas Donahue, Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is a Republican. 
He said the newly unemployed should "stop whining."

Alfonso Jackson, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, is a 
Republican. He explained the enormous cuts to low-income housing by saying, 
"Being poor is a state of mind, not a condition."

Rick Santorum, Senator from Pennsylvania, is a Republican. He defended cuts 
to child care and welfare by suggesting that "making people struggle a 
little bit is not necessarily the worst thing."

Eric Bost, Undersecretary of Food and Nutrition, U.S. Department of 
Agriculture, is a Republican. A study by his own agency said that 34 
million Americans, including 13.6 million children under the age of 12, 
were affected by hunger, but Bost doubts these numbers: "If you ask any 
teenager if they're happy about the food they have in their house, what 
will they say?" Responding to a report that the number of people seeking 
assistance at food pantries in Ohio had increased by 44% in the last three 
years, Bost told an Ohio newspaper: "Food pantries don't require 
documentation of income. . . so there's no proof everyone asking for 
sustenance at a soup kitchen is truly in need."

Dr. Tom Coburn, former Congressman and current candidate for the Senate 
from Oklahoma, is a Republican. Dr. Coburn supports the death penalty for 
doctors who perform abortions.

Republicans do not like dogs. Major General Geoffrey Miller, former Chief 
of Prisons at Guantanamo Bay, now Director of Prisons in Iraq, said that 
"at Guantanamo Bay we learned that the prisoners have to earn every single 
thing that they have. They are like dogs and if you allow them to believe 
at any point that they are more than a dog then you've lost control of them."

Republicans like dogs. Trent Lott, Senator from Mississippi, was asked 
about the use of attack dogs in torturing an Iraqi prisoner. He replied 
that there?s "nothing wrong with holding a dog up there unless it ate him."

Republicans have a sense of history. The National Museum of Naval Aviation 
now exhibits the actual Navy S-3B Viking fighter jet that carried the 
President to the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln for his "Mission 
Accomplished" speech. It has "George W. Bush Commander-in-Chief" stenciled 
just below the cockpit window.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Ron Paige, Secretary of Education, 
called the National Education Association, with a membership of 2.7 million 
teachers, a "terrorist organization." Karen Hughes, adviser to the 
President, said that, especially after September 11, Americans support 
Bush's efforts to ban abortion because "the fundamental issue between us 
and the terror network we fight is that we value every life."

Patricia "Lynn" Scarlett, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a 
Republican. She is the former president of the Reason Foundation, a 
libertarian group, and is opposed to recycling, nutritional labeling on 
food, consumer "right to know" laws, and restrictions on the use of pesticides.

D. Nick Rerras, State Senator in Virginia, is a Republican. He believes 
that mental illness is caused by demons and, somewhat contradictorily, that 
"God may be punishing families by giving children mental illnesses." He 
also claims that "thunder and lightning mean God is mad at you."

John Yoo, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, is a Republican. In January 
2002, he sent a 42-page memo to William Haynes II, Chief Legal Counsel for 
the Pentagon, stating that the Geneva Conventions, the War Crimes Act, and 
"customary international law" do not apply to the war in Afghanistan. He 
was seconded by Alberto Gonzales, White House Legal Counsel, who wrote: "In 
my judgment, this new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva?s strict limitations 
on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its 
provisions." A few days later, the President suspended all rights for 
prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

William Haynes II, the recipient of Yoo?s memo, is a Republican. As the 
Chief Legal Counsel for the Pentagon, he argued that the Defense Department 
should be exempt from the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and allowed to test 
bombs on a Pacific Ocean nesting island. Such bombing, he said, would 
please bird-watchers, because it will make the birds more scarce, and "bird 
watchers get more enjoyment spotting a rare bird than they do spotting a 
common one." Haynes has now been nominated by the President for a lifetime 
appointment as a judge on the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Republicans like children. John Cornyn, Senator from Texas, speaking in 
support of the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, said: "It 
does not affect your daily life very much if your neighbor marries a box 
turtle. But that does not mean it is right. Now you must raise your 
children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the 
same legal footing as man and wife."

Republicans are optimistic. General Peter Schoomaker, U.S. Army Chief of 
Staff, says that, following September 11, "there is a huge silver lining in 
this cloud." He explains: "War is a tremendous focus. . . . Now we have 
this focusing opportunity, and we have the fact that terrorists have 
actually attacked our homeland, which it gives it some oomph."

Republicans do not like children. The President has never bothered to 
appoint a director of the Office of Children?s Health Protection.

Craig Manson, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a Republican. In 
charge of overseeing the Endangered Species Act, he has refused to add any 
new species to the list. He said: "If we are saying that the loss of 
species in and of itself is inherently bad -- I don't think we know enough 
about how the world works to say that."

Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor, is a Republican. Her department publishes 
a pamphlet with tips to employers about how to avoid paying overtime wages 
to workers.

Jack Kahl and his son John Kahl are Republicans and major contributors to 
the Republican Party. They are, respectively, the former and current 
chairmen and CEOs of Manco, Inc., a company in Avon, Ohio. (Motto: "If 
you?re not proud of it, don?t ship it.") Manco produces 63% of all the duct 
tape used in the USA. When the Secretary of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge, 
repeatedly urged Americans to buy plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal 
their homes from a biological or chemical attack, Manco?s sales increased 
40% overnight.

Republicans have a sense of history. Sonny Perdue, the Governor of Georgia, 
celebrated his election victory, and the end of Democratic control, by 
intoning the words of Martin Luther King: "Free at last, free at last, 
thank God Almighty, we're free at last!" He gave his speech in front of a 
large Confederate flag.

Sue Myrick, Congresswoman from North Carolina, is a Republican. As the 
keynote speaker at a Heritage Foundation conference on "The Role of State 
and Local Governments in Protecting Our Homeland," she said: "Honest to 
goodness, [my husband] Ed and I, for years, for 20 years, have been saying, 
?You know, look at who runs all the convenience stores across the country.? 
Every little town you go into, you know?"
Republicans are fighting terrorism. In the village of Prosser, Washington, 
a 15-year-old drew some antiwar cartoons in a sketchbook for art class; one 
depicted the President as a devil firing rockets. The art teacher turned 
the sketchbook over to the principal of the school, who called the local 
police chief, who alerted the Secret Service, which sent two agents to 
Prosser to interrogate the boy.

John Hostettler, Congressman from Indiana, is a Republican. He was briefly 
detained by security at the Louisville, Kentucky, airport, when they found 
a loaded Glock-9mm automatic pistol in his briefcase. In 2000, when the 
Violence Against Women Act passed Congress by a vote of 415 to 3, 
Hostettler was one of the three.

Jeffrey Holmstead, Assistant Administrator for Air and Radiation at the 
Environmental Protection Agency, is a Republican. A former lawyer for 
Montrose Chemical, American Electric Power, and various pesticide 
companies, he served under Bush Sr. on the [Dan] Quayle Council on 
Competitiveness, devoted to weakening existing environmental, health, and 
safety regulations. Holmstead is a member of the Citizens for the 
Environment, an organization that promotes "market solutions" to 
environmental problems, considers acid rain a myth, and supports the total 
deregulation of businesses.

Ed Gillespie is Chairman of the Republican National Committee. He accuses 
gays of "intolerance and bigotry" for "attempting to force the rest of the 
population to accept alien moral standards."

Al Frink is a Republican. He was appointed to the newly-created position of 
Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Manufacturing and Services, to address 
the massive loss of jobs to factories overseas. He is the co-owner of 
Fabrica, a company that makes expensive carpets for the White House and the 
Saudi royal family. (Motto: "The Rolls-Royce of Carpets.") Although Fabrica 
has no factories abroad, it has replaced many of its workers with robots 
because, as Frink?s partner explained, you don?t have to pay health 
insurance for robots.

There are American soldiers in Iraq who are Republicans. They follow the 
instructions to tear out a page from the pamphlet, "A Christian?s Duty" 
(distributed, with military approval, by the In Touch Ministries), and mail 
it to the White House, pledging that they will pray daily for the 
Administration. The pamphlet includes a suggested prayer for each day. 
"Monday" reads: "Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong 
and courageous to do what is right regardless of critics".

There are men in Indianapolis, Indiana, who are Republicans, but they don?t 
look like ordinary people. At a rally promoting Republican economic policy 
and its effect on the ordinary person, those standing behind the President 
were asked to remove their ties and jackets for the cameras.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Tim Pawlenty, Governor of Minnesota, 
wants people arrested at antiwar demonstrations? but not at other 
demonstrations? to pay an additional fine, which will be used for "homeland 
security expenses."

Republicans do not like children. A little girl asked Richard Riordan, 
Secretary of Education for the State of California, if he knew that her 
name, Isis, "meant ?Egyptian goddess.?" "It means stupid, dirty girl," 
Riordan replied.

Republicans like ice cream, but they do not like the ice cream made by Ben 
& Jerry?s, with its notorious support of progressive causes. So they have 
created their own brand, Star-Spangled Ice Cream, which has pledged 19% of 
its profits to conservative organizations. Among its flavors are I Hate the 
French Vanilla, Gun Nut, Smaller GovernMINT, Iraqi Road, and Choc & Awe.

Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, is a Republican. He opened the nation?s 
first Christian prison, where inmates spend their days in prayer and Bible 
study.

Republicans like Hummers. Those who purchase a Hummer H-1 for $50,590 
receive a tax deduction of $50,590; those who purchase a H-2 for $111,845 
receive a deduction of $107,107. "In my humble opinion," said Rick Schmidt, 
founder of the International Hummer Owners Group, "the H2 is an American 
icon. . . it's a symbol of what we all hold so dearly above all else, the 
fact we have the freedom of choice, the freedom of happiness, the freedom 
of adventure and discovery, and the ultimate freedom of expression. Those 
who deface a Hummer in words or deed deface the American flag and what it 
stands for."

Republicans like secrets. Asked by a reporter from a newspaper in Apopka, 
Florida, the White House refused to confirm or deny that it had invited 
members of the Apopka Little League team to watch a game of T-ball on the 
White House Lawn.

Republicans have a sense of history. The officials of Taney County, 
Missouri, refused to hang a "plaque of remembrance" honoring a Taney County 
resident who died in the World Trade Center on September 11 because he was 
a Democrat.

Jerry Regier, Director of the Department of Children and Families for the 
State of Florida, is a Republican. He believes that children should be 
subject to "manly" discipline, that a "biblical spanking" leading to 
"temporary and superficial bruises or welts does not constitute child 
abuse," that women should view working outside the home as "bondage," that 
Christians should not marry non-Christians, and that "the radical feminist 
movement has damaged the morale of many women and convinced men to 
relinquish their biblical authority in the home.''

Republicans have a sense of history. Bill Black, Vice Chairman of the 
California Republican Party, sent his constituents an article from the 
Center for Cultural Conservatism, which read: "Given how bad things have 
gotten in the old USA, it's not hard to believe that history might have 
taken a better turn. ... The real damage to race relations in the South 
came not from slavery, but from Reconstruction, which would not have 
occurred if the South had won."

Kathy Cox, Superintendent of Schools for the State of Georgia, is a 
Republican. She wants all textbooks in the state to be changed so that the 
word "evolution" is replaced with "biological changes over time."

Jim Bunning, Senator from Kentucky, is a Republican. He gets a laugh at 
Republican dinners by joking that his opponent in the forthcoming election, 
Dan Mongiardo, a son of Italian immigrants, looks like one of the sons of 
Saddam Hussein.

Republicans have a sense of history. The only illustrations in the federal 
budget, published annually by the Government Printing Office, are normally 
charts and graphs. This year, it features 27 color photographs of the 
President. He is seen in front of the Washington monument and in front of a 
giant American flag, reading to a small child, hacking a trail through the 
wilderness, comforting an elderly woman in a wheelchair, and serving an 
inedible food-styled Thanksgiving turkey to the troops in Iraq.

Republicans do not like almanacs. On Christmas Eve, the FBI sent a bulletin 
to 18,000 police organizations warning them to watch out-- during traffic 
stops, searches, and other investigations? for anyone carrying an almanac. 
The bulletin stated that "the practice of researching potential targets is 
consistent with known methods of al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations 
that seek to maximize the likelihood of operational success through careful 
planning." Kevin Seabrooke, senior editor of the World Almanac, may or may 
not be a Republican. "I don?t think anyone would consider us a harmful 
entity," he said.

Republicans like the Rush Limbaugh Show and like having it broadcast to the 
troops overseas, five days a week, on the official American Forces Radio 
and Television Service network. When it was suggested that they provide 
more "balanced" political programming, Sam Johnson, Congressman from Texas, 
said that it "sounds a little like Communism to me."

Stephen Downs, age 61, is probably not a Republican. He was shopping at the 
Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, when security guards surrounded 
him and asked him to leave. Downs was wearing a t-shirt with the words 
"Give Peace a Chance." He refused to leave and was arrested for trespassing.

My friend, a middle-aged white man, is not a Republican. A photographer on 
assignment for the National Geographic in Florida, he was taking pictures 
of some colorfully painted vans in a parking lot. An hour later he was 
arrested. An alert citizen, suspecting possible terrorist 
information-gathering activity, had called the police.

Herbert O. Chadbourne is probably a Republican. A professor at the 
evangelical Regent University, he developed a facial tic? the result he 
said, of exposure to biological or chemical agents when he was a soldier in 
the first Gulf War. The university, however, said that the tic was a sign 
that he was possessed by a demon, having been cursed by God for sinfulness, 
and fired him.

Jeffrey Kofman, reporter for ABC television, may not be a Republican. When 
he broadcast a story that morale among American troops in Iraq was 
weakening, the White House spread the story that not only is Kofman gay, 
he?s a Canadian.

Republicans like technology. Although most programs for low-income housing 
and job training have been greatly reduced or eliminated, the Department of 
Labor has created a website for the homeless.

Republicans like methyl bromide, a pesticide that destroys the ozone layer 
and leads to prostate cancer in farm workers. The Reagan administration and 
160 nations signed a treaty in 1987 to eliminate methyl bromide by 2005. 
The use of the pesticide has increased every year of the current 
Administration, which is seeking a waiver from compliance with the treaty. 
Claudia A. McMurray, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Environment, 
explained: "Our farmers need this."

Republicans like dog-race gamblers, NASCAR track owners, bow-and-arrow 
makers, and Oldsmobile dealers. They were among those given $170 billion in 
tax cuts that were slipped into an obscure bill intended to resolve a minor 
trade dispute with Europe.

Republicans do not like technology. On September 11, 2001, the FBI 
computers were still running on MS-DOS, which could only perform 
single-word searches of their files, and FBI agents did not have e-mail. 
They are hoping a new system will be in place in 2006.

Lieutenant General William Boykin, Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for 
Intelligence, formerly in charge of the hunt for Osama bin Laden and 
currently directing Iraqi prison reform, is a Republican. He regularly 
appears at revival meetings sponsored by a group called the Faith Force 
Multiplier, which advocates applying military principles to evangelism. Its 
manifesto, "Warrior Message," summons "warriors in this spiritual war for 
souls of this nation and the world ." Boykin preaches that "Satan wants to 
destroy this nation, he wants to destroy us as a nation, and he wants to 
destroy us as a Christian army," and that Muslims "will only be defeated if 
we come against them in the name of Jesus". He admits that "George Bush was 
not elected by a majority of the voters in the US," but adds: "He was 
appointed by God."

Kelli Arena, Justice Department correspondent for CNN, is presumably a 
Republican. She reported that "there is some speculation that al Qaeda 
believes it has a better chance of winning in Iraq if John Kerry is in the 
White House ."

William "Bucky" Bush, uncle of the President, is a Republican. He is a 
director of Engineer Support Systems, Inc., which makes military items, 
such as the Chemical Biological Protected Shelter System (a mobile shed for 
a WMD attack) or the Field Deployable Environmental Control Unit. Since 
2001, the company has had sales to the Pentagon of $300-400 million a year, 
and the Department of Homeland Security has ordered a fleet of mobile 
emergency communication centers for use in the event of a domestic 
biochemical attack. He is also a director of Lord Abbett & Co., which owns 
8 million shares of Halliburton. Jeb Bush inserted a line in the Florida 
state budget privatizing elevator inspections. "Bucky" is one of the owners 
of a company called National Elevator Inspection Services.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. In the 1980's, Bob and Todd 
Urosevich founded a voting machine company, eventually called American 
Information Systems (AIS), with money from the Ahmanson family of 
California. The Ahmansons are Christian Reconstructionists who want to 
establish a theocracy based on biblical law and under the "dominion" of 
Christians. They support the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, and 
alcoholics. They are members of the secretive Council for National Policy, 
which combines remnants of the John Birch Society with apocalyptic 
Christians and is considered by many to be the driving force of "hard 
right" ideology. The Ahmansons sold the company to the McCarthy Group, 
whose Chairman and co-owner was Chuck Hagel. The McCarthy Group bought 
another voting machine company, Cronus Industries, from the Hunt oil family 
in Texas, also Christian Reconstructionists, who had supplied the original 
money for the Council for National Policy. The two voting machine companies 
were merged and became Election Systems and Software (ES&S), with Hagel as CEO.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. ES&S counts 80% of the vote in 
the state of Nebraska. In 1996, Hagel resigned from ES&S to run for Senator 
from Nebraska. His victory was called a "stunning upset" by Nebraska 
newspapers: African-American districts that had never voted for a 
Republican voted for Hagel. In 1992, Hagel ran again and received 83% of 
the vote? 3% more than ES&S-tabulated votes and the largest election 
victory in the history of Nebraska. His Democratic opponent asked for a 
recount, but the Republican-dominated state legislature had passed a law 
that only ES&S could recount the votes. Hagel won the recount. No longer 
Chairman of the McCarthy Group, Hagel had been succeeded by Thomas 
McCarthy, who was his campaign treasurer.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. When Jeb Bush first ran for 
Governor of Florida, his first choice for Lieutenant Governor was Sandra 
Mortham, a lobbyist for ES&S, who was receiving commissions for every 
county that bought ES&S machines.

Republicans have a sense of history. John LeBoutillier, former Congressman 
and author of Harvard Hates Americia, wants to build the "Counter Clinton 
Library," a few minutes walk from the official Clinton Presidential Library 
in Little Rock, Arkansas. This library will be devoted to the "distortions, 
slanders, spins, and outright lies" of the Clinton Administration.

The Senate of the State of Texas is controlled by Republicans. They passed 
an "abortion counseling law" which requires doctors to warn women that 
abortion might lead to breast cancer, for which there is no medical evidence.

The President?s Council of Economic Advisers are Republicans. In order to 
show an increase in manufacturing jobs, they are considering reclassifying 
fast-food workers as "manufacturers," since they "manufacture" hamburgers.

Republicans like formaldehyde. In support of changing the regulations on 
emissions from plywood factories, the White House Office of Management and 
Budget deleted references to studies by the National Cancer Institute and 
replaced them with references to studies by the Chemical Industry Institute 
for Toxicology. The NCI?s estimate of the risk of leukemia from exposure to 
formaldehyde was 10,000 times greater than the estimate by the CIIT.

Specialist Sean Baker of the Kentucky National Guard, was probably once a 
Republican, but may no longer be one. Assigned to the military prison in 
Guantanamo Bay, he volunteered to portray a detainee in a training drill. A 
five-man "immediate response force" choked and beat him on the steel floor 
of the 6' x 8' cell, despite his shouting the code word and telling his 
assailants he was an American soldier. They finally stopped when his orange 
prison suit was ripped off, revealing a military uniform. Baker spent 48 
days in the hospital and still suffers from seizures. Laurie Arellano, a 
Republican and spokesperson for the Pentagon, said that Baker?s hospital 
stay was "not related to the beating at Guantanamo." A few days later she 
said this was not true. The incident was taped, but the tape has now been lost.

Bill Nevins may or may not have been a Republican, but it is doubtful he is 
still one. A teacher at the huge Rio Rancho High School-- with over 3000 
students, the largest in New Mexico? he organized a school poetry club, 
which held a Poetry Slam. At the reading, a student read a poem criticizing 
the President and the war in Iraq, in language that was neither violent or 
obscene. Nevins was immediately fired by the Principal, Gary Tripp, for 
promoting "disrespectful speech." He then banned the poetry club and all 
classes in poetry, ordered the student to destroy all of her poetry, and 
threatened to fire her mother? also a teacher at the school? if the girl 
did not. At a school assembly a few days later, Tripp read a poem of his 
own, instructing students who disagreed with him to "shut your faces."

Republicans like sex. Jack Ryan, candidate (now former candidate) for 
Senator from Illinois, forced his wife (now ex-wife) to visit sadomasochist 
sex clubs in New York and Paris and insisted she have sex with him there 
while others watched. He defended himself by calling these "romantic 
getaways," and noted,"There was no breaking of any laws. There was no 
breaking of any marriage laws. There was no breaking of the Ten 
Commandments anywhere." Republicans supported him, because, as columnist 
Robert Novack said, "Jack Ryan, unlike Bill Clinton, did not commit 
adultery and did not lie." Ryan?s ex-wife is the actress Jeri Ryan who, on 
the television program "Star Trek," portrayed a Borg. (Motto: "Resistance 
is futile.")

Republicans like meat, and like their meat regulated by people from the 
meat industry. At the US Department of Agriculture (USDA), Elizabeth 
Johnson, Senior Advisor on Food and Nutrition, is formerly Associate 
Director for Food Policy, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. James 
Moseley, Deputy Secretary of Agriculture, is formerly Managing Partner, 
Infinity Pork. Dale Moore, Chief of Staff, is formerly Executive Director 
for Legislative Affairs, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Dr. Eric 
Hentges, Director, Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, is formerly 
Vice President, the National Pork Board. Dr. Charles "Chuck" Lambert, 
Deputy Undersecretary for Marketing and Regulatory Programs, is formerly 
Chief Economist, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Donna 
Reifschneider, Administrator for Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards 
Administration, is formerly President, National Pork Producers Council. 
Mary Kirtley Waters, Assistant Secretary for Congressional Relations, is 
formerly Senior Director, ConAgra Foods. Scott Charbo, Chief Information 
Officer, is formerly President, mPower3, a subsidiary of ConAgra Foods. The 
USDA prohibited Creekstone Farms Premium Beef, a company in Kansas, from 
testing all its cattle for mad cow disease, for it would cause undue alarm 
among consumers and pressure the other beef producers to similarly test 
their stock.

Republicans like Freedom fries (formerly known as French fries). At the 
request of the frozen Freedom fry (formerly known as French fry) industry, 
the USDA changed the classification of frozen Freedom fries (formerly known 
as French fries) to "fresh vegetable," so that the food could be listed in 
the Department?s promotion of a healthy diet.

Republicans do not like sex. Robert F. McDonnell, Chairman of the House 
Courts of Justice Committee for the State of Virginia, said that "engaging 
in anal or oral sex might disqualify a person from being a judge." 
Republicans like sex. A few days later, McDonnell?s campaign manager, Robin 
Vanderwell, was arrested for soliciting a young boy over the internet.

Ralph Reed is a Republican. When he was the director of the Christian 
Coalition, he campaigned against gambling, calling it a "cancer on the 
American body politic" that is "stealing food from the mouths of children." 
He is now the lobbyist for a large casino.

Anna Perez, former Counselor for Communications to Condoleezza Rice and 
former Press Secretary for Barbara Bush, is a Republican. NBC appointed her 
Executive Vice President for Communications. "I love the television 
business," she said, although "I have no expertise in it."

Paul O?Neill is a Republican. When he was Secretary of the Treasury, he 
recommended that corporations pay no taxes at all. As it is, only 60% of 
corporations currently pay federal taxes.

Michael Skupkin, founder of a religious software company and leader of the 
Presidential Prayer Team, is a Republican. He was urged to run for Senator 
from Michigan, but eventually refused. Skupkin had become famous on the 
televison program, "Survivor 2," for catching and slaughtering a wild boar 
with his bare hands, and then painting his face with its blood. The 
Presidential Prayer Team is an independent organization with millions of 
participants, who are given daily instructions, such as: "Pray for the 
president as he meets with Singaporean Prime Minister Goh Chok Ton on May 
6. The two leaders will discuss strengthening our bilateral relations as 
well as the U.S.-Singapore Free Trade Agreement."

Mark Rey, former Vice President of the American Forest and Paper 
Association, former Vice President of the National Forest Products 
Association, former Executive Director of the American Forest Resource 
Alliance, a coalition of 350 timber corporations, is a Republican. As the 
Under Secretary for Natural Resources and the Environment, he now oversees 
the U.S. Forest Service, and is responsible for the management of 155 
national forests, 19 national grasslands, and 15 land utilization projects 
on 192,000,000 acres of publicly-owned lands in 44 states. He is the author 
of the "Salvage Rider," which suspended all environmental laws in the 
national forests, and which was called by the New York Times "the worst 
piece of conservation legislation ever written."

Republicans like electronic voting machines. 8 million people? 8% of the 
voters? vote on machines made by Diebold Inc., whose CEO is Wally O?Dell. 
In 2000 O?Dell was Chairman of the Ohio Bush for President Committee. In 
2004 he has said that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its 
electoral votes to the President." Bob Urosevich, co-founder of AIS, is now 
Director of Diebold Election Systems. (His brother remains at ES&S.)

Republicans support education. This year the President has proposed new 
education initiatives: $40 million to help math and science professionals 
become teachers, $52 million to create more Advanced Placement courses in 
high school, $100 million for reading for middle and high schoolers who 
still have trouble reading, and $270 million for sexual abstinence classes.

Republicans support legislation with cheerful names: Healthy Forests, Clean 
Skies, Climate Leaders, No Child Left Behind, KidCare. Healthy Forests 
opens up Sequoia National Park and other parks and national wilderness 
areas to logging and more roads for loggers. Clean Skies allows 68% more 
nitrogen oxide, 125% more sulfur dioxide, and 420% more mercury air 
pollution than the Clean Air law it replaces. Climate Leaders is a plan for 
businesses to voluntarily reduce their greenhouse gas emissions; of the 
many thousands of potential Leaders, only 14 have volunteered. No Child 
Left Behind cuts most school programs in favor of standardized testing. 
KidCare, a Jeb Bush initiative in the state of Florida, resulted in 167,500 
children losing their medical insurance.

Jerry Thacker, marketing consultant and member of the Presidential Advisory 
Commission on AIDS and HIV, is a Republican. He has called AIDS the "gay 
plague," describes homosexuality as a "deathstyle," and states that only 
"Christ can rescue the homosexual."

The Rev. Scott Breedlove, pastor of the Jesus Church of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, 
is probably a Republican. His plans for a large outdoor book-burning were 
thwarted by officials of the Cedar Rapids Fire Department. A city fire 
inspector suggested shredding the books, but Breedlove said that didn?t 
seem very biblical.

Pat Tillman was probably a Republican. After September 11, he gave up a 
multimillion dollar contract as a professional football player to join the 
Army Rangers in Afghanistan, where he died in combat. As the only soldier 
with some previous national recognition, he was on the verge of media 
canonization when it was revealed that he had been killed by American 
troops in a "friendly fire" incident.

Zell Miller, Senator from Georgia, might as well be a Republican. He is a 
Democrat who campaigns for the President and speaks at Republican events. 
The torture at Abu Ghraib prison reminded him of his high school gym: "The 
two times I think I have been most humiliated in my life was standing in a 
big room, naked as a jaybird with about fifty others and they were checking 
us out, now that was humiliating. It was humiliating showering with sixty 
others in a public shower. It didn't kill us did it? No one ever died from 
humiliation."

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Police and intelligence authorities are 
now examining immigration files and lists of voter registration, driver?s 
licences, university enrollment, library withdrawals, airplane 
reservations, credit card purchases, birth certificates, and Social 
Security numbers in the attempt to uncover terrorist links. They have, 
however, been expressly forbidden by Attorney General Ashcroft from looking 
at the lists of background checks for gun purchasers.

Republicans are fighting terrorism, but it is sometimes difficult to tell 
who is a terrorist and who is a Republican. Attorney General John Ashcroft 
has warned that al-Qaeda operatives in the United States are very likely to 
be "European-looking," in their late twenties or early thirties, traveling 
with their families, and speaking English.

Republican like large bombs. Having already developed the Massive Ordnamce 
Air Blast (MOAB), a 21,000-pound bomb, they are now working on MOP, the 
Massive Ordnance Penetrator, which weighs 30,000 pounds.

Rick Perry, Governor of Texas, is a Republican. He does not believe that 
the wealthy should pay for the education of the poor, so he has proposed 
reducing property taxes and replacing them with larger taxes on cigarettes 
and alcohol, and a $5 tax every time a patron enters a topless bar.
John Graham, former CEO of Strat at comm, a public relations and lobbying firm 
for the automobile industry, and founder of the Sports Utility Vehicle 
Owners of America, is a Republican. As the Administrator in Charge of 
Regulations for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, he has 
introduced greatly inferior standards for automobile tires.

Judge John Leon Holmes, appointed by the President to a lifetime seat on 
the Federal District Court, is a Republican. He supports a constitutional 
amendment banning abortion, has compared pro-choice advocates to Nazis and 
abortion to slavery, and has written that "concern for rape victims is a 
red herring because conceptions from rape occur with approximately the same 
frequency as snowfall in Miami." Confronted with statistics showing that 
some 30,000 American women become pregnant each year from rape or incest, 
Jeff Sessions, Senator from Alabama and a Republican, defended Holmes by 
saying that he was merely using "a literary device called exaggeration for 
effect."

Josh Llano, Southern Baptist Army chaplain in Iraq, is a Republican. At the 
Army V Corps camp in the desert near Najaf, where water is in short supply 
and washing rare, he was given a 500-gallon pool to use for baptisms. 
Soldiers are agreeing to sit through the three-hour ceremony in order to 
get a bath.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Rick Santorum, Senator from 
Pennsylvania, in support of the constitutional amendment banning gay 
marriage, said: "I would argue that the future of our country hangs in the 
balance because the future of marriage hangs in the balance. Isn't that the 
ultimate homeland security, standing up and defending marriage?"

Republicans are fighting terrorism. In October 2001, Ansar Mahmood, a pizza 
delivery man and legal immigrant in Hudson, New York, went to the banks of 
the Hudson River to take some photographs of the beautiful scenery to send 
to his village in Pakistan. What he did not know was that he was standing 
near a water treatment plant and that there was a general hysteria about 
terrorists poisoning the water supply. Mahmood is still in jail.

Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi, is a Republican. His campaign was 
vigorously supported by the President and the Council of Conservative 
Citizens, which supports deporting African-Americans to Africa, denies the 
Holocaust took place, and opposes the immigration of all non-white people 
as well as the "mixing of the races."

Allan Fitzsimmons, Fuels Coordinator at the Department of Interior and in 
charge of implementing the Healthy Forests initiative, is a Republican. 
Although he has no background in forest management, he has written articles 
questioning the existence of ecosystems, calling them a "mental construct." 
He has accused religious organizations that promote protecting the 
environment of succumbing to idolatry.

Republicans do not like children. The Food and Drug Administration has 
eliminated laws requiring separate testing for drugs that are prescribed 
for children as well as adults.

Republicans like to help impoverished nations. The Administration has 
proposed that these countries generate income by allowing hunters to kill 
elephants and other "trophy" animals, and wildlife traders and the pet 
industry to capture rare birds. It has also proposed that the importation 
of ivory tusks, skins, and antlers be made legal again.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. It was a surprise when Max 
Cleland, a popular Democratic Senator from Georgia, lost his bid for 
re-election. Some attributed the defeat to Republican television 
advertisements juxtaposing Cleland with Osama bin Laden, questioning the 
Senator?s patriotism even though Cleland had lost both legs and an arm in 
the Vietnam War. This was the first election in which all votes in Georgia 
were cast on electronic voting machines. The machines were manufactured by 
Diebold.

Republicans do not like international treaties.

Randall Tobias, global coordinator for AIDS, is a Republican. After two 
years, only 2% of the $18 billion allotted to fight AIDS has been spent. 
One-third of it, by law, must be used for "abstinence education." Much of 
the rest will be spent on drugs. Tobias decides whether the Administration 
will purchase generic drugs or name-brand drugs, which are three to five 
times as expensive. Tobias is the former CEO of the pharmaceutical 
corporation Eli Lilly, which has donated at least $1.5 million to 
Republicans since 2000.

William G. Myers, recently appointed to a lifetime seat on the Court of 
Appeals, is a Republican. Evidently a classical scholar, he referred to the 
California Desert Protection Act, which created Joshua Tree National Park, 
Death Valley National Park, and the Mojave National Preserve, as "an 
example of legislative hubris."

Republicans like electronic voting machines. The State of Maryland is 
worried about possible fraud in its machines, so it has hired the Science 
Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to oversee elections. The 
former CEO of SAIC and current Chairman of its VoteHere division, is 
Admiral Bill Owens, former military aide to Dick Cheney.

Republicans do not like the cactus pygmy owl, although there are only 
thirty left, Puget Sound orcas, Florida manatees, Florida panthers, or the 
Kemp?s ridley turtle.

Cindy Jacobs is a Republican. She is the founder of the Generals of 
Intercession, an organization devoted to "winning nations for Christ" 
through a "military-style prayer strategy." In 2002, God told her that the 
U.S. would invade Iraq, and she convened an "international gathering of 
Generals" in Washington, D.C.. "Each of us felt in our hearts that God 
wants to humble the spirit of Islam and its god, Allah, and that God is 
leading President Bush." At the meeting, according to Jacobs, one of the 
Generals said "she had been studying Jeremiah 50:2, which says, ?Declare 
among the nations, Proclaim, and set up a standard; Proclaim--do not 
conceal it--Say, Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed.? Some Bible translations 
say ?confounded? rather than ?shamed.? As she looked up the word 
?confounded? in her lexicon, she found that the word in Hebrew is ?Bush?! 
We were amazed at that!"

Mickey Mouse is a Republican. 7.3 million shares of Disney are owned by the 
Florida state pension fund, which is controlled by Jeb Bush. Disney has an 
agreement with the state granting them complete control, "free from 
government oversight," of over 40,000 acres. In the days following 
September 11, the President urged the country to "Go down to Disney World 
in Florida. Take your families and enjoy life." Disney refused to allow its 
Miramax division to distribute the Michael Moore film "Fahrenheit 9/11."

Republicans are fighting terrorism, but the one genuine terrorist captured, 
accidentally, on American soil, has never been mentioned in the 2,295 press 
releases issued by John Ashcroft and the Office of the Attorney General. 
William Krar of Noonday, Texas, mailed a package containing false U.N. 
credentials, Defense Intelligence Agency identification cards, phony birth 
certificates, and forged federal concealed weapons permits to a fellow 
terrorist. The Post Office delivered it to the wrong address, and the 
recipient notified the FBI. At Krar?s home they found fully automatic 
machine guns, remote-controlled explosive devices disguised as briefcases, 
60 pipe bombs, 500,000 rounds of ammunition, and enough pure sodium 
cyanide, as the FBI said, "to kill everyone inside a 30,000 square foot 
building. Krar, however, is a White Supremacist, and not a Muslim.

Republicans do not like elections. After the Presidential election of 2000, 
Congress approved $4 billion to help states improve their voting systems 
for the 2004 election. Very little of the money has been distributed. 
Congress also created the Election Assistance Commission to oversee these 
improvements. For years, the White House delayed appointing any members or 
providing any of the funds appropriated. In 2004, it named DeForest 
"Buster" Soaries Jr., a New Jersey minister, as Director of the Commission. 
His first act was to ask for emergency legislation from Congress giving the 
Commission the authority to cancel the elections in the event of a 
terrorist attack.

God is a Republican. Speaking to a group of Amish farmers, the President 
told them: "God speaks through me."

Republicans have a sense of history. Mitch McConnell, Senator from 
Kentucky, wants to replace Alexander Hamilton on the $10 bill with Ronald 
Reagan. Dana Rohrabacher, Congressman from California, wants to replace 
Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill with Ronald Reagan. Jeff Miller, Congressman 
from Florida, wants to replace John Kennedy on the 50-cent piece with 
Ronald Reagan. Mark Souder, Congressman from Indiana, wants to replace 
Franklin Roosevelt on the dime with Ronald Reagan. Bill Frist, Senate 
Majority Leader, wants to rename the Pentagon as the Ronald Reagan National 
Defense Building. Grover Norquist of the Leave Us Alone Coalition (whose 
weekly meetings are attended by representatives of the President and Vice 
President) and Director of the Ronald Reagan Legacy Project, wants to put a 
monument to Ronald Reagan in every one of the 3000 counties in the United 
States. Matt Salmon, Congressman from Arizona, wants Ronald Reagan?s head 
carved on Mount Rushmore.

George W. Bush, President of the United States, is a Republican. To 
demonstrate personal sacrifice and his determination to win the War on 
Terror, he gave up desserts and candy a few days before he announced the 
invasion of Iraq.

[1 August 2004]

Copyright c. 2004 Eliot Weinberger. This may circulate freely on the 
internet; for print publication please write: 
<mailto:unreal at att.net>unreal at att.net.

Eliot Weinberger's chronicles of the Bush Era are collected in 9/12, 
published by Prickly Paradigm/Univ. of Chicago Press.

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From hruggier  Thu Aug  5 15:39:03 2004
From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:39:03 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu><a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]><20040805125601.M87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>
	<6.0.3.0.2.20040805142155.0306d3e8@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <002901c47b23$dd9a1130$55dcf63f@Helen>

Yeah, but look at it this way - ya keep em poor and hungry and they'll enlist just to eat.    It's all part of the plan. 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gabriel Gudding 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views 
  Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:22 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger


    Republicans: A Prose Poem

    Eliot Weinberger


    "They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy

    and freedom, and individual liberty."

    President George W. Bush


    "I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."

    Vice-President Dick Cheney

    -------------------------


    Thomas Donahue, Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is a Republican. He said the newly unemployed should "stop whining."


    Alfonso Jackson, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, is a Republican. He explained the enormous cuts to low-income housing by saying, "Being poor is a state of mind, not a condition."


    Rick Santorum, Senator from Pennsylvania, is a Republican. He defended cuts to child care and welfare by suggesting that "making people struggle a little bit is not necessarily the worst thing."


    Eric Bost, Undersecretary of Food and Nutrition, U.S. Department of Agriculture, is a Republican. A study by his own agency said that 34 million Americans, including 13.6 million children under the age of 12, were affected by hunger, but Bost doubts these numbers: "If you ask any teenager if they're happy about the food they have in their house, what will they say?" Responding to a report that the number of people seeking assistance at food pantries in Ohio had increased by 44% in the last three years, Bost told an Ohio newspaper: "Food pantries don't require documentation of income. . . so there's no proof everyone asking for sustenance at a soup kitchen is truly in need."


    Dr. Tom Coburn, former Congressman and current candidate for the Senate from Oklahoma, is a Republican. Dr. Coburn supports the death penalty for doctors who perform abortions.


    Republicans do not like dogs. Major General Geoffrey Miller, former Chief of Prisons at Guantanamo Bay, now Director of Prisons in Iraq, said that "at Guantanamo Bay we learned that the prisoners have to earn every single thing that they have. They are like dogs and if you allow them to believe at any point that they are more than a dog then you've lost control of them."


    Republicans like dogs. Trent Lott, Senator from Mississippi, was asked about the use of attack dogs in torturing an Iraqi prisoner. He replied that there?s "nothing wrong with holding a dog up there unless it ate him."


    Republicans have a sense of history. The National Museum of Naval Aviation now exhibits the actual Navy S-3B Viking fighter jet that carried the President to the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln for his "Mission Accomplished" speech. It has "George W. Bush Commander-in-Chief" stenciled just below the cockpit window.


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. Ron Paige, Secretary of Education, called the National Education Association, with a membership of 2.7 million teachers, a "terrorist organization." Karen Hughes, adviser to the President, said that, especially after September 11, Americans support Bush's efforts to ban abortion because "the fundamental issue between us and the terror network we fight is that we value every life."


    Patricia "Lynn" Scarlett, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a Republican. She is the former president of the Reason Foundation, a libertarian group, and is opposed to recycling, nutritional labeling on food, consumer "right to know" laws, and restrictions on the use of pesticides.


    D. Nick Rerras, State Senator in Virginia, is a Republican. He believes that mental illness is caused by demons and, somewhat contradictorily, that "God may be punishing families by giving children mental illnesses." He also claims that "thunder and lightning mean God is mad at you."


    John Yoo, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, is a Republican. In January 2002, he sent a 42-page memo to William Haynes II, Chief Legal Counsel for the Pentagon, stating that the Geneva Conventions, the War Crimes Act, and "customary international law" do not apply to the war in Afghanistan. He was seconded by Alberto Gonzales, White House Legal Counsel, who wrote: "In my judgment, this new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva?s strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions." A few days later, the President suspended all rights for prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.


    William Haynes II, the recipient of Yoo?s memo, is a Republican. As the Chief Legal Counsel for the Pentagon, he argued that the Defense Department should be exempt from the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and allowed to test bombs on a Pacific Ocean nesting island. Such bombing, he said, would please bird-watchers, because it will make the birds more scarce, and "bird watchers get more enjoyment spotting a rare bird than they do spotting a common one." Haynes has now been nominated by the President for a lifetime appointment as a judge on the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.


    Republicans like children. John Cornyn, Senator from Texas, speaking in support of the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, said: "It does not affect your daily life very much if your neighbor marries a box turtle. But that does not mean it is right. Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife."


    Republicans are optimistic. General Peter Schoomaker, U.S. Army Chief of Staff, says that, following September 11, "there is a huge silver lining in this cloud." He explains: "War is a tremendous focus. . . . Now we have this focusing opportunity, and we have the fact that terrorists have actually attacked our homeland, which it gives it some oomph."


    Republicans do not like children. The President has never bothered to appoint a director of the Office of Children?s Health Protection.


    Craig Manson, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a Republican. In charge of overseeing the Endangered Species Act, he has refused to add any new species to the list. He said: "If we are saying that the loss of species in and of itself is inherently bad -- I don't think we know enough about how the world works to say that."


    Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor, is a Republican. Her department publishes a pamphlet with tips to employers about how to avoid paying overtime wages to workers.


    Jack Kahl and his son John Kahl are Republicans and major contributors to the Republican Party. They are, respectively, the former and current chairmen and CEOs of Manco, Inc., a company in Avon, Ohio. (Motto: "If you?re not proud of it, don?t ship it.") Manco produces 63% of all the duct tape used in the USA. When the Secretary of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge, repeatedly urged Americans to buy plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal their homes from a biological or chemical attack, Manco?s sales increased 40% overnight.


    Republicans have a sense of history. Sonny Perdue, the Governor of Georgia, celebrated his election victory, and the end of Democratic control, by intoning the words of Martin Luther King: "Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we're free at last!" He gave his speech in front of a large Confederate flag.


    Sue Myrick, Congresswoman from North Carolina, is a Republican. As the keynote speaker at a Heritage Foundation conference on "The Role of State and Local Governments in Protecting Our Homeland," she said: "Honest to goodness, [my husband] Ed and I, for years, for 20 years, have been saying, ?You know, look at who runs all the convenience stores across the country.? Every little town you go into, you know?"

    Republicans are fighting terrorism. In the village of Prosser, Washington, a 15-year-old drew some antiwar cartoons in a sketchbook for art class; one depicted the President as a devil firing rockets. The art teacher turned the sketchbook over to the principal of the school, who called the local police chief, who alerted the Secret Service, which sent two agents to Prosser to interrogate the boy.


    John Hostettler, Congressman from Indiana, is a Republican. He was briefly detained by security at the Louisville, Kentucky, airport, when they found a loaded Glock-9mm automatic pistol in his briefcase. In 2000, when the Violence Against Women Act passed Congress by a vote of 415 to 3, Hostettler was one of the three.


    Jeffrey Holmstead, Assistant Administrator for Air and Radiation at the Environmental Protection Agency, is a Republican. A former lawyer for Montrose Chemical, American Electric Power, and various pesticide companies, he served under Bush Sr. on the [Dan] Quayle Council on Competitiveness, devoted to weakening existing environmental, health, and safety regulations. Holmstead is a member of the Citizens for the Environment, an organization that promotes "market solutions" to environmental problems, considers acid rain a myth, and supports the total deregulation of businesses.


    Ed Gillespie is Chairman of the Republican National Committee. He accuses gays of "intolerance and bigotry" for "attempting to force the rest of the population to accept alien moral standards."


    Al Frink is a Republican. He was appointed to the newly-created position of Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Manufacturing and Services, to address the massive loss of jobs to factories overseas. He is the co-owner of Fabrica, a company that makes expensive carpets for the White House and the Saudi royal family. (Motto: "The Rolls-Royce of Carpets.") Although Fabrica has no factories abroad, it has replaced many of its workers with robots because, as Frink?s partner explained, you don?t have to pay health insurance for robots.


    There are American soldiers in Iraq who are Republicans. They follow the instructions to tear out a page from the pamphlet, "A Christian?s Duty" (distributed, with military approval, by the In Touch Ministries), and mail it to the White House, pledging that they will pray daily for the Administration. The pamphlet includes a suggested prayer for each day. "Monday" reads: "Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong and courageous to do what is right regardless of critics".


    There are men in Indianapolis, Indiana, who are Republicans, but they don?t look like ordinary people. At a rally promoting Republican economic policy and its effect on the ordinary person, those standing behind the President were asked to remove their ties and jackets for the cameras.


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. Tim Pawlenty, Governor of Minnesota, wants people arrested at antiwar demonstrations? but not at other demonstrations? to pay an additional fine, which will be used for "homeland security expenses."


    Republicans do not like children. A little girl asked Richard Riordan, Secretary of Education for the State of California, if he knew that her name, Isis, "meant ?Egyptian goddess.?" "It means stupid, dirty girl," Riordan replied.


    Republicans like ice cream, but they do not like the ice cream made by Ben & Jerry?s, with its notorious support of progressive causes. So they have created their own brand, Star-Spangled Ice Cream, which has pledged 19% of its profits to conservative organizations. Among its flavors are I Hate the French Vanilla, Gun Nut, Smaller GovernMINT, Iraqi Road, and Choc & Awe.


    Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, is a Republican. He opened the nation?s first Christian prison, where inmates spend their days in prayer and Bible study.


    Republicans like Hummers. Those who purchase a Hummer H-1 for $50,590 receive a tax deduction of $50,590; those who purchase a H-2 for $111,845 receive a deduction of $107,107. "In my humble opinion," said Rick Schmidt, founder of the International Hummer Owners Group, "the H2 is an American icon. . . it's a symbol of what we all hold so dearly above all else, the fact we have the freedom of choice, the freedom of happiness, the freedom of adventure and discovery, and the ultimate freedom of expression. Those who deface a Hummer in words or deed deface the American flag and what it stands for."


    Republicans like secrets. Asked by a reporter from a newspaper in Apopka, Florida, the White House refused to confirm or deny that it had invited members of the Apopka Little League team to watch a game of T-ball on the White House Lawn.


    Republicans have a sense of history. The officials of Taney County, Missouri, refused to hang a "plaque of remembrance" honoring a Taney County resident who died in the World Trade Center on September 11 because he was a Democrat.


    Jerry Regier, Director of the Department of Children and Families for the State of Florida, is a Republican. He believes that children should be subject to "manly" discipline, that a "biblical spanking" leading to "temporary and superficial bruises or welts does not constitute child abuse," that women should view working outside the home as "bondage," that Christians should not marry non-Christians, and that "the radical feminist movement has damaged the morale of many women and convinced men to relinquish their biblical authority in the home.''


    Republicans have a sense of history. Bill Black, Vice Chairman of the California Republican Party, sent his constituents an article from the Center for Cultural Conservatism, which read: "Given how bad things have gotten in the old USA, it's not hard to believe that history might have taken a better turn. ... The real damage to race relations in the South came not from slavery, but from Reconstruction, which would not have occurred if the South had won."


    Kathy Cox, Superintendent of Schools for the State of Georgia, is a Republican. She wants all textbooks in the state to be changed so that the word "evolution" is replaced with "biological changes over time."


    Jim Bunning, Senator from Kentucky, is a Republican. He gets a laugh at Republican dinners by joking that his opponent in the forthcoming election, Dan Mongiardo, a son of Italian immigrants, looks like one of the sons of Saddam Hussein.


    Republicans have a sense of history. The only illustrations in the federal budget, published annually by the Government Printing Office, are normally charts and graphs. This year, it features 27 color photographs of the President. He is seen in front of the Washington monument and in front of a giant American flag, reading to a small child, hacking a trail through the wilderness, comforting an elderly woman in a wheelchair, and serving an inedible food-styled Thanksgiving turkey to the troops in Iraq.


    Republicans do not like almanacs. On Christmas Eve, the FBI sent a bulletin to 18,000 police organizations warning them to watch out-- during traffic stops, searches, and other investigations? for anyone carrying an almanac. The bulletin stated that "the practice of researching potential targets is consistent with known methods of al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations that seek to maximize the likelihood of operational success through careful planning." Kevin Seabrooke, senior editor of the World Almanac, may or may not be a Republican. "I don?t think anyone would consider us a harmful entity," he said.


    Republicans like the Rush Limbaugh Show and like having it broadcast to the troops overseas, five days a week, on the official American Forces Radio and Television Service network. When it was suggested that they provide more "balanced" political programming, Sam Johnson, Congressman from Texas, said that it "sounds a little like Communism to me."


    Stephen Downs, age 61, is probably not a Republican. He was shopping at the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, when security guards surrounded him and asked him to leave. Downs was wearing a t-shirt with the words "Give Peace a Chance." He refused to leave and was arrested for trespassing.


    My friend, a middle-aged white man, is not a Republican. A photographer on assignment for the National Geographic in Florida, he was taking pictures of some colorfully painted vans in a parking lot. An hour later he was arrested. An alert citizen, suspecting possible terrorist information-gathering activity, had called the police.


    Herbert O. Chadbourne is probably a Republican. A professor at the evangelical Regent University, he developed a facial tic? the result he said, of exposure to biological or chemical agents when he was a soldier in the first Gulf War. The university, however, said that the tic was a sign that he was possessed by a demon, having been cursed by God for sinfulness, and fired him.


    Jeffrey Kofman, reporter for ABC television, may not be a Republican. When he broadcast a story that morale among American troops in Iraq was weakening, the White House spread the story that not only is Kofman gay, he?s a Canadian.


    Republicans like technology. Although most programs for low-income housing and job training have been greatly reduced or eliminated, the Department of Labor has created a website for the homeless.


    Republicans like methyl bromide, a pesticide that destroys the ozone layer and leads to prostate cancer in farm workers. The Reagan administration and 160 nations signed a treaty in 1987 to eliminate methyl bromide by 2005. The use of the pesticide has increased every year of the current Administration, which is seeking a waiver from compliance with the treaty. Claudia A. McMurray, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Environment, explained: "Our farmers need this."


    Republicans like dog-race gamblers, NASCAR track owners, bow-and-arrow makers, and Oldsmobile dealers. They were among those given $170 billion in tax cuts that were slipped into an obscure bill intended to resolve a minor trade dispute with Europe.


    Republicans do not like technology. On September 11, 2001, the FBI computers were still running on MS-DOS, which could only perform single-word searches of their files, and FBI agents did not have e-mail. They are hoping a new system will be in place in 2006.


    Lieutenant General William Boykin, Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, formerly in charge of the hunt for Osama bin Laden and currently directing Iraqi prison reform, is a Republican. He regularly appears at revival meetings sponsored by a group called the Faith Force Multiplier, which advocates applying military principles to evangelism. Its manifesto, "Warrior Message," summons "warriors in this spiritual war for souls of this nation and the world ." Boykin preaches that "Satan wants to destroy this nation, he wants to destroy us as a nation, and he wants to destroy us as a Christian army," and that Muslims "will only be defeated if we come against them in the name of Jesus". He admits that "George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the US," but adds: "He was appointed by God."


    Kelli Arena, Justice Department correspondent for CNN, is presumably a Republican. She reported that "there is some speculation that al Qaeda believes it has a better chance of winning in Iraq if John Kerry is in the White House ."


    William "Bucky" Bush, uncle of the President, is a Republican. He is a director of Engineer Support Systems, Inc., which makes military items, such as the Chemical Biological Protected Shelter System (a mobile shed for a WMD attack) or the Field Deployable Environmental Control Unit. Since 2001, the company has had sales to the Pentagon of $300-400 million a year, and the Department of Homeland Security has ordered a fleet of mobile emergency communication centers for use in the event of a domestic biochemical attack. He is also a director of Lord Abbett & Co., which owns 8 million shares of Halliburton. Jeb Bush inserted a line in the Florida state budget privatizing elevator inspections. "Bucky" is one of the owners of a company called National Elevator Inspection Services.


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. In the 1980's, Bob and Todd Urosevich founded a voting machine company, eventually called American Information Systems (AIS), with money from the Ahmanson family of California. The Ahmansons are Christian Reconstructionists who want to establish a theocracy based on biblical law and under the "dominion" of Christians. They support the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, and alcoholics. They are members of the secretive Council for National Policy, which combines remnants of the John Birch Society with apocalyptic Christians and is considered by many to be the driving force of "hard right" ideology. The Ahmansons sold the company to the McCarthy Group, whose Chairman and co-owner was Chuck Hagel. The McCarthy Group bought another voting machine company, Cronus Industries, from the Hunt oil family in Texas, also Christian Reconstructionists, who had supplied the original money for the Council for National Policy. The two voting machine companies were merged and became Election Systems and Software (ES&S), with Hagel as CEO.


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. ES&S counts 80% of the vote in the state of Nebraska. In 1996, Hagel resigned from ES&S to run for Senator from Nebraska. His victory was called a "stunning upset" by Nebraska newspapers: African-American districts that had never voted for a Republican voted for Hagel. In 1992, Hagel ran again and received 83% of the vote? 3% more than ES&S-tabulated votes and the largest election victory in the history of Nebraska. His Democratic opponent asked for a recount, but the Republican-dominated state legislature had passed a law that only ES&S could recount the votes. Hagel won the recount. No longer Chairman of the McCarthy Group, Hagel had been succeeded by Thomas McCarthy, who was his campaign treasurer.


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. When Jeb Bush first ran for Governor of Florida, his first choice for Lieutenant Governor was Sandra Mortham, a lobbyist for ES&S, who was receiving commissions for every county that bought ES&S machines.


    Republicans have a sense of history. John LeBoutillier, former Congressman and author of Harvard Hates Americia, wants to build the "Counter Clinton Library," a few minutes walk from the official Clinton Presidential Library in Little Rock, Arkansas. This library will be devoted to the "distortions, slanders, spins, and outright lies" of the Clinton Administration.


    The Senate of the State of Texas is controlled by Republicans. They passed an "abortion counseling law" which requires doctors to warn women that abortion might lead to breast cancer, for which there is no medical evidence.


    The President?s Council of Economic Advisers are Republicans. In order to show an increase in manufacturing jobs, they are considering reclassifying fast-food workers as "manufacturers," since they "manufacture" hamburgers.


    Republicans like formaldehyde. In support of changing the regulations on emissions from plywood factories, the White House Office of Management and Budget deleted references to studies by the National Cancer Institute and replaced them with references to studies by the Chemical Industry Institute for Toxicology. The NCI?s estimate of the risk of leukemia from exposure to formaldehyde was 10,000 times greater than the estimate by the CIIT.


    Specialist Sean Baker of the Kentucky National Guard, was probably once a Republican, but may no longer be one. Assigned to the military prison in Guantanamo Bay, he volunteered to portray a detainee in a training drill. A five-man "immediate response force" choked and beat him on the steel floor of the 6' x 8' cell, despite his shouting the code word and telling his assailants he was an American soldier. They finally stopped when his orange prison suit was ripped off, revealing a military uniform. Baker spent 48 days in the hospital and still suffers from seizures. Laurie Arellano, a Republican and spokesperson for the Pentagon, said that Baker?s hospital stay was "not related to the beating at Guantanamo." A few days later she said this was not true. The incident was taped, but the tape has now been lost.


    Bill Nevins may or may not have been a Republican, but it is doubtful he is still one. A teacher at the huge Rio Rancho High School-- with over 3000 students, the largest in New Mexico? he organized a school poetry club, which held a Poetry Slam. At the reading, a student read a poem criticizing the President and the war in Iraq, in language that was neither violent or obscene. Nevins was immediately fired by the Principal, Gary Tripp, for promoting "disrespectful speech." He then banned the poetry club and all classes in poetry, ordered the student to destroy all of her poetry, and threatened to fire her mother? also a teacher at the school? if the girl did not. At a school assembly a few days later, Tripp read a poem of his own, instructing students who disagreed with him to "shut your faces."


    Republicans like sex. Jack Ryan, candidate (now former candidate) for Senator from Illinois, forced his wife (now ex-wife) to visit sadomasochist sex clubs in New York and Paris and insisted she have sex with him there while others watched. He defended himself by calling these "romantic getaways," and noted,"There was no breaking of any laws. There was no breaking of any marriage laws. There was no breaking of the Ten Commandments anywhere." Republicans supported him, because, as columnist Robert Novack said, "Jack Ryan, unlike Bill Clinton, did not commit adultery and did not lie." Ryan?s ex-wife is the actress Jeri Ryan who, on the television program "Star Trek," portrayed a Borg. (Motto: "Resistance is futile.")


    Republicans like meat, and like their meat regulated by people from the meat industry. At the US Department of Agriculture (USDA), Elizabeth Johnson, Senior Advisor on Food and Nutrition, is formerly Associate Director for Food Policy, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. James Moseley, Deputy Secretary of Agriculture, is formerly Managing Partner, Infinity Pork. Dale Moore, Chief of Staff, is formerly Executive Director for Legislative Affairs, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Dr. Eric Hentges, Director, Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, is formerly Vice President, the National Pork Board. Dr. Charles "Chuck" Lambert, Deputy Undersecretary for Marketing and Regulatory Programs, is formerly Chief Economist, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Donna Reifschneider, Administrator for Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration, is formerly President, National Pork Producers Council. Mary Kirtley Waters, Assistant Secretary for Congressional Relations, is formerly Senior Director, ConAgra Foods. Scott Charbo, Chief Information Officer, is formerly President, mPower3, a subsidiary of ConAgra Foods. The USDA prohibited Creekstone Farms Premium Beef, a company in Kansas, from testing all its cattle for mad cow disease, for it would cause undue alarm among consumers and pressure the other beef producers to similarly test their stock.


    Republicans like Freedom fries (formerly known as French fries). At the request of the frozen Freedom fry (formerly known as French fry) industry, the USDA changed the classification of frozen Freedom fries (formerly known as French fries) to "fresh vegetable," so that the food could be listed in the Department?s promotion of a healthy diet.


    Republicans do not like sex. Robert F. McDonnell, Chairman of the House Courts of Justice Committee for the State of Virginia, said that "engaging in anal or oral sex might disqualify a person from being a judge." Republicans like sex. A few days later, McDonnell?s campaign manager, Robin Vanderwell, was arrested for soliciting a young boy over the internet.


    Ralph Reed is a Republican. When he was the director of the Christian Coalition, he campaigned against gambling, calling it a "cancer on the American body politic" that is "stealing food from the mouths of children." He is now the lobbyist for a large casino.


    Anna Perez, former Counselor for Communications to Condoleezza Rice and former Press Secretary for Barbara Bush, is a Republican. NBC appointed her Executive Vice President for Communications. "I love the television business," she said, although "I have no expertise in it."


    Paul O?Neill is a Republican. When he was Secretary of the Treasury, he recommended that corporations pay no taxes at all. As it is, only 60% of corporations currently pay federal taxes.


    Michael Skupkin, founder of a religious software company and leader of the Presidential Prayer Team, is a Republican. He was urged to run for Senator from Michigan, but eventually refused. Skupkin had become famous on the televison program, "Survivor 2," for catching and slaughtering a wild boar with his bare hands, and then painting his face with its blood. The Presidential Prayer Team is an independent organization with millions of participants, who are given daily instructions, such as: "Pray for the president as he meets with Singaporean Prime Minister Goh Chok Ton on May 6. The two leaders will discuss strengthening our bilateral relations as well as the U.S.-Singapore Free Trade Agreement."


    Mark Rey, former Vice President of the American Forest and Paper Association, former Vice President of the National Forest Products Association, former Executive Director of the American Forest Resource Alliance, a coalition of 350 timber corporations, is a Republican. As the Under Secretary for Natural Resources and the Environment, he now oversees the U.S. Forest Service, and is responsible for the management of 155 national forests, 19 national grasslands, and 15 land utilization projects on 192,000,000 acres of publicly-owned lands in 44 states. He is the author of the "Salvage Rider," which suspended all environmental laws in the national forests, and which was called by the New York Times "the worst piece of conservation legislation ever written."


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. 8 million people? 8% of the voters? vote on machines made by Diebold Inc., whose CEO is Wally O?Dell. In 2000 O?Dell was Chairman of the Ohio Bush for President Committee. In 2004 he has said that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President." Bob Urosevich, co-founder of AIS, is now Director of Diebold Election Systems. (His brother remains at ES&S.)


    Republicans support education. This year the President has proposed new education initiatives: $40 million to help math and science professionals become teachers, $52 million to create more Advanced Placement courses in high school, $100 million for reading for middle and high schoolers who still have trouble reading, and $270 million for sexual abstinence classes.


    Republicans support legislation with cheerful names: Healthy Forests, Clean Skies, Climate Leaders, No Child Left Behind, KidCare. Healthy Forests opens up Sequoia National Park and other parks and national wilderness areas to logging and more roads for loggers. Clean Skies allows 68% more nitrogen oxide, 125% more sulfur dioxide, and 420% more mercury air pollution than the Clean Air law it replaces. Climate Leaders is a plan for businesses to voluntarily reduce their greenhouse gas emissions; of the many thousands of potential Leaders, only 14 have volunteered. No Child Left Behind cuts most school programs in favor of standardized testing. KidCare, a Jeb Bush initiative in the state of Florida, resulted in 167,500 children losing their medical insurance.


    Jerry Thacker, marketing consultant and member of the Presidential Advisory Commission on AIDS and HIV, is a Republican. He has called AIDS the "gay plague," describes homosexuality as a "deathstyle," and states that only "Christ can rescue the homosexual."


    The Rev. Scott Breedlove, pastor of the Jesus Church of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, is probably a Republican. His plans for a large outdoor book-burning were thwarted by officials of the Cedar Rapids Fire Department. A city fire inspector suggested shredding the books, but Breedlove said that didn?t seem very biblical.


    Pat Tillman was probably a Republican. After September 11, he gave up a multimillion dollar contract as a professional football player to join the Army Rangers in Afghanistan, where he died in combat. As the only soldier with some previous national recognition, he was on the verge of media canonization when it was revealed that he had been killed by American troops in a "friendly fire" incident.


    Zell Miller, Senator from Georgia, might as well be a Republican. He is a Democrat who campaigns for the President and speaks at Republican events. The torture at Abu Ghraib prison reminded him of his high school gym: "The two times I think I have been most humiliated in my life was standing in a big room, naked as a jaybird with about fifty others and they were checking us out, now that was humiliating. It was humiliating showering with sixty others in a public shower. It didn't kill us did it? No one ever died from humiliation."


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. Police and intelligence authorities are now examining immigration files and lists of voter registration, driver?s licences, university enrollment, library withdrawals, airplane reservations, credit card purchases, birth certificates, and Social Security numbers in the attempt to uncover terrorist links. They have, however, been expressly forbidden by Attorney General Ashcroft from looking at the lists of background checks for gun purchasers.


    Republicans are fighting terrorism, but it is sometimes difficult to tell who is a terrorist and who is a Republican. Attorney General John Ashcroft has warned that al-Qaeda operatives in the United States are very likely to be "European-looking," in their late twenties or early thirties, traveling with their families, and speaking English.


    Republican like large bombs. Having already developed the Massive Ordnamce Air Blast (MOAB), a 21,000-pound bomb, they are now working on MOP, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator, which weighs 30,000 pounds.


    Rick Perry, Governor of Texas, is a Republican. He does not believe that the wealthy should pay for the education of the poor, so he has proposed reducing property taxes and replacing them with larger taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, and a $5 tax every time a patron enters a topless bar.

    John Graham, former CEO of Strat at comm, a public relations and lobbying firm for the automobile industry, and founder of the Sports Utility Vehicle Owners of America, is a Republican. As the Administrator in Charge of Regulations for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, he has introduced greatly inferior standards for automobile tires.


    Judge John Leon Holmes, appointed by the President to a lifetime seat on the Federal District Court, is a Republican. He supports a constitutional amendment banning abortion, has compared pro-choice advocates to Nazis and abortion to slavery, and has written that "concern for rape victims is a red herring because conceptions from rape occur with approximately the same frequency as snowfall in Miami." Confronted with statistics showing that some 30,000 American women become pregnant each year from rape or incest, Jeff Sessions, Senator from Alabama and a Republican, defended Holmes by saying that he was merely using "a literary device called exaggeration for effect."


    Josh Llano, Southern Baptist Army chaplain in Iraq, is a Republican. At the Army V Corps camp in the desert near Najaf, where water is in short supply and washing rare, he was given a 500-gallon pool to use for baptisms. Soldiers are agreeing to sit through the three-hour ceremony in order to get a bath.


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. Rick Santorum, Senator from Pennsylvania, in support of the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, said: "I would argue that the future of our country hangs in the balance because the future of marriage hangs in the balance. Isn't that the ultimate homeland security, standing up and defending marriage?"


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. In October 2001, Ansar Mahmood, a pizza delivery man and legal immigrant in Hudson, New York, went to the banks of the Hudson River to take some photographs of the beautiful scenery to send to his village in Pakistan. What he did not know was that he was standing near a water treatment plant and that there was a general hysteria about terrorists poisoning the water supply. Mahmood is still in jail.


    Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi, is a Republican. His campaign was vigorously supported by the President and the Council of Conservative Citizens, which supports deporting African-Americans to Africa, denies the Holocaust took place, and opposes the immigration of all non-white people as well as the "mixing of the races."


    Allan Fitzsimmons, Fuels Coordinator at the Department of Interior and in charge of implementing the Healthy Forests initiative, is a Republican. Although he has no background in forest management, he has written articles questioning the existence of ecosystems, calling them a "mental construct." He has accused religious organizations that promote protecting the environment of succumbing to idolatry.


    Republicans do not like children. The Food and Drug Administration has eliminated laws requiring separate testing for drugs that are prescribed for children as well as adults.


    Republicans like to help impoverished nations. The Administration has proposed that these countries generate income by allowing hunters to kill elephants and other "trophy" animals, and wildlife traders and the pet industry to capture rare birds. It has also proposed that the importation of ivory tusks, skins, and antlers be made legal again.


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. It was a surprise when Max Cleland, a popular Democratic Senator from Georgia, lost his bid for re-election. Some attributed the defeat to Republican television advertisements juxtaposing Cleland with Osama bin Laden, questioning the Senator?s patriotism even though Cleland had lost both legs and an arm in the Vietnam War. This was the first election in which all votes in Georgia were cast on electronic voting machines. The machines were manufactured by Diebold.


    Republicans do not like international treaties.


    Randall Tobias, global coordinator for AIDS, is a Republican. After two years, only 2% of the $18 billion allotted to fight AIDS has been spent. One-third of it, by law, must be used for "abstinence education." Much of the rest will be spent on drugs. Tobias decides whether the Administration will purchase generic drugs or name-brand drugs, which are three to five times as expensive. Tobias is the former CEO of the pharmaceutical corporation Eli Lilly, which has donated at least $1.5 million to Republicans since 2000.


    William G. Myers, recently appointed to a lifetime seat on the Court of Appeals, is a Republican. Evidently a classical scholar, he referred to the California Desert Protection Act, which created Joshua Tree National Park, Death Valley National Park, and the Mojave National Preserve, as "an example of legislative hubris."


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. The State of Maryland is worried about possible fraud in its machines, so it has hired the Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to oversee elections. The former CEO of SAIC and current Chairman of its VoteHere division, is Admiral Bill Owens, former military aide to Dick Cheney.


    Republicans do not like the cactus pygmy owl, although there are only thirty left, Puget Sound orcas, Florida manatees, Florida panthers, or the Kemp?s ridley turtle.


    Cindy Jacobs is a Republican. She is the founder of the Generals of Intercession, an organization devoted to "winning nations for Christ" through a "military-style prayer strategy." In 2002, God told her that the U.S. would invade Iraq, and she convened an "international gathering of Generals" in Washington, D.C.. "Each of us felt in our hearts that God wants to humble the spirit of Islam and its god, Allah, and that God is leading President Bush." At the meeting, according to Jacobs, one of the Generals said "she had been studying Jeremiah 50:2, which says, ?Declare among the nations, Proclaim, and set up a standard; Proclaim--do not conceal it--Say, Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed.? Some Bible translations say ?confounded? rather than ?shamed.? As she looked up the word ?confounded? in her lexicon, she found that the word in Hebrew is ?Bush?! We were amazed at that!"


    Mickey Mouse is a Republican. 7.3 million shares of Disney are owned by the Florida state pension fund, which is controlled by Jeb Bush. Disney has an agreement with the state granting them complete control, "free from government oversight," of over 40,000 acres. In the days following September 11, the President urged the country to "Go down to Disney World in Florida. Take your families and enjoy life." Disney refused to allow its Miramax division to distribute the Michael Moore film "Fahrenheit 9/11."


    Republicans are fighting terrorism, but the one genuine terrorist captured, accidentally, on American soil, has never been mentioned in the 2,295 press releases issued by John Ashcroft and the Office of the Attorney General. William Krar of Noonday, Texas, mailed a package containing false U.N. credentials, Defense Intelligence Agency identification cards, phony birth certificates, and forged federal concealed weapons permits to a fellow terrorist. The Post Office delivered it to the wrong address, and the recipient notified the FBI. At Krar?s home they found fully automatic machine guns, remote-controlled explosive devices disguised as briefcases, 60 pipe bombs, 500,000 rounds of ammunition, and enough pure sodium cyanide, as the FBI said, "to kill everyone inside a 30,000 square foot building. Krar, however, is a White Supremacist, and not a Muslim.


    Republicans do not like elections. After the Presidential election of 2000, Congress approved $4 billion to help states improve their voting systems for the 2004 election. Very little of the money has been distributed. Congress also created the Election Assistance Commission to oversee these improvements. For years, the White House delayed appointing any members or providing any of the funds appropriated. In 2004, it named DeForest "Buster" Soaries Jr., a New Jersey minister, as Director of the Commission. His first act was to ask for emergency legislation from Congress giving the Commission the authority to cancel the elections in the event of a terrorist attack.


    God is a Republican. Speaking to a group of Amish farmers, the President told them: "God speaks through me."


    Republicans have a sense of history. Mitch McConnell, Senator from Kentucky, wants to replace Alexander Hamilton on the $10 bill with Ronald Reagan. Dana Rohrabacher, Congressman from California, wants to replace Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill with Ronald Reagan. Jeff Miller, Congressman from Florida, wants to replace John Kennedy on the 50-cent piece with Ronald Reagan. Mark Souder, Congressman from Indiana, wants to replace Franklin Roosevelt on the dime with Ronald Reagan. Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader, wants to rename the Pentagon as the Ronald Reagan National Defense Building. Grover Norquist of the Leave Us Alone Coalition (whose weekly meetings are attended by representatives of the President and Vice President) and Director of the Ronald Reagan Legacy Project, wants to put a monument to Ronald Reagan in every one of the 3000 counties in the United States. Matt Salmon, Congressman from Arizona, wants Ronald Reagan?s head carved on Mount Rushmore.


    George W. Bush, President of the United States, is a Republican. To demonstrate personal sacrifice and his determination to win the War on Terror, he gave up desserts and candy a few days before he announced the invasion of Iraq.


    [1 August 2004]


    Copyright c. 2004 Eliot Weinberger. This may circulate freely on the internet; for print publication please write: unreal at att.net.


    Eliot Weinberger's chronicles of the Bush Era are collected in 9/12, published by Prickly Paradigm/Univ. of Chicago Press. 




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From cstroffo  Thu Aug  5 17:02:32 2004
From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino )
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:02:32 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
Message-ID: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>

Ah, what an "ear" that fella whineburger's got

----------
From: Gabriel Gudding <gmguddi at ilstu.edu>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
Date: Thu, Aug 5, 2004, 11:22 AM


Republicans: A Prose Poem
Eliot Weinberger

"They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
and freedom, and individual liberty."
President George W. Bush

"I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
Vice-President Dick Cheney
-------------------------

Thomas Donahue, Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is a Republican.
He said the newly unemployed should "stop whining."

Alfonso Jackson, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, is a
Republican. He explained the enormous cuts to low-income housing by saying,
"Being poor is a state of mind, not a condition."

Rick Santorum, Senator from Pennsylvania, is a Republican. He defended cuts
to child care and welfare by suggesting that "making people struggle a
little bit is not necessarily the worst thing."

Eric Bost, Undersecretary of Food and Nutrition, U.S. Department of
Agriculture, is a Republican. A study by his own agency said that 34 million
Americans, including 13.6 million children under the age of 12, were
affected by hunger, but Bost doubts these numbers: "If you ask any teenager
if they're happy about the food they have in their house, what will they
say?" Responding to a report that the number of people seeking assistance at
food pantries in Ohio had increased by 44% in the last three years, Bost
told an Ohio newspaper: "Food pantries don't require documentation of
income. . . so there's no proof everyone asking for sustenance at a soup
kitchen is truly in need."

Dr. Tom Coburn, former Congressman and current candidate for the Senate from
Oklahoma, is a Republican. Dr. Coburn supports the death penalty for doctors
who perform abortions.

Republicans do not like dogs. Major General Geoffrey Miller, former Chief of
Prisons at Guantanamo Bay, now Director of Prisons in Iraq, said that "at
Guantanamo Bay we learned that the prisoners have to earn every single thing
that they have. They are like dogs and if you allow them to believe at any
point that they are more than a dog then you've lost control of them."

Republicans like dogs. Trent Lott, Senator from Mississippi, was asked about
the use of attack dogs in torturing an Iraqi prisoner. He replied that
there?s "nothing wrong with holding a dog up there unless it ate him."

Republicans have a sense of history. The National Museum of Naval Aviation
now exhibits the actual Navy S-3B Viking fighter jet that carried the
President to the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln for his "Mission
Accomplished" speech. It has "George W. Bush Commander-in-Chief" stenciled
just below the cockpit window.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Ron Paige, Secretary of Education,
called the National Education Association, with a membership of 2.7 million
teachers, a "terrorist organization." Karen Hughes, adviser to the
President, said that, especially after September 11, Americans support
Bush's efforts to ban abortion because "the fundamental issue between us and
the terror network we fight is that we value every life."

Patricia "Lynn" Scarlett, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a
Republican. She is the former president of the Reason Foundation, a
libertarian group, and is opposed to recycling, nutritional labeling on
food, consumer "right to know" laws, and restrictions on the use of
pesticides.

D. Nick Rerras, State Senator in Virginia, is a Republican. He believes that
mental illness is caused by demons and, somewhat contradictorily, that "God
may be punishing families by giving children mental illnesses." He also
claims that "thunder and lightning mean God is mad at you."

John Yoo, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, is a Republican. In January
2002, he sent a 42-page memo to William Haynes II, Chief Legal Counsel for
the Pentagon, stating that the Geneva Conventions, the War Crimes Act, and
"customary international law" do not apply to the war in Afghanistan. He was
seconded by Alberto Gonzales, White House Legal Counsel, who wrote: "In my
judgment, this new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva?s strict limitations on
questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions." A
few days later, the President suspended all rights for prisoners at
Guantanamo Bay.

William Haynes II, the recipient of Yoo?s memo, is a Republican. As the
Chief Legal Counsel for the Pentagon, he argued that the Defense Department
should be exempt from the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and allowed to test
bombs on a Pacific Ocean nesting island. Such bombing, he said, would please
bird-watchers, because it will make the birds more scarce, and "bird
watchers get more enjoyment spotting a rare bird than they do spotting a
common one." Haynes has now been nominated by the President for a lifetime
appointment as a judge on the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Republicans like children. John Cornyn, Senator from Texas, speaking in
support of the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, said: "It does
not affect your daily life very much if your neighbor marries a box turtle.
But that does not mean it is right. Now you must raise your children up in a
world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as
man and wife."

Republicans are optimistic. General Peter Schoomaker, U.S. Army Chief of
Staff, says that, following September 11, "there is a huge silver lining in
this cloud." He explains: "War is a tremendous focus. . . . Now we have this
focusing opportunity, and we have the fact that terrorists have actually
attacked our homeland, which it gives it some oomph."

Republicans do not like children. The President has never bothered to
appoint a director of the Office of Children?s Health Protection.

Craig Manson, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a Republican. In
charge of overseeing the Endangered Species Act, he has refused to add any
new species to the list. He said: "If we are saying that the loss of species
in and of itself is inherently bad -- I don't think we know enough about how
the world works to say that."

Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor, is a Republican. Her department publishes a
pamphlet with tips to employers about how to avoid paying overtime wages to
workers.

Jack Kahl and his son John Kahl are Republicans and major contributors to
the Republican Party. They are, respectively, the former and current
chairmen and CEOs of Manco, Inc., a company in Avon, Ohio. (Motto: "If
you?re not proud of it, don?t ship it.") Manco produces 63% of all the duct
tape used in the USA. When the Secretary of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge,
repeatedly urged Americans to buy plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal
their homes from a biological or chemical attack, Manco?s sales increased
40% overnight.

Republicans have a sense of history. Sonny Perdue, the Governor of Georgia,
celebrated his election victory, and the end of Democratic control, by
intoning the words of Martin Luther King: "Free at last, free at last, thank
God Almighty, we're free at last!" He gave his speech in front of a large
Confederate flag.

Sue Myrick, Congresswoman from North Carolina, is a Republican. As the
keynote speaker at a Heritage Foundation conference on "The Role of State
and Local Governments in Protecting Our Homeland," she said: "Honest to
goodness, [my husband] Ed and I, for years, for 20 years, have been saying,
?You know, look at who runs all the convenience stores across the country.?
Every little town you go into, you know?"
Republicans are fighting terrorism. In the village of Prosser, Washington, a
15-year-old drew some antiwar cartoons in a sketchbook for art class; one
depicted the President as a devil firing rockets. The art teacher turned the
sketchbook over to the principal of the school, who called the local police
chief, who alerted the Secret Service, which sent two agents to Prosser to
interrogate the boy.

John Hostettler, Congressman from Indiana, is a Republican. He was briefly
detained by security at the Louisville, Kentucky, airport, when they found a
loaded Glock-9mm automatic pistol in his briefcase. In 2000, when the
Violence Against Women Act passed Congress by a vote of 415 to 3, Hostettler
was one of the three.

Jeffrey Holmstead, Assistant Administrator for Air and Radiation at the
Environmental Protection Agency, is a Republican. A former lawyer for
Montrose Chemical, American Electric Power, and various pesticide companies,
he served under Bush Sr. on the [Dan] Quayle Council on Competitiveness,
devoted to weakening existing environmental, health, and safety regulations.
Holmstead is a member of the Citizens for the Environment, an organization
that promotes "market solutions" to environmental problems, considers acid
rain a myth, and supports the total deregulation of businesses.

Ed Gillespie is Chairman of the Republican National Committee. He accuses
gays of "intolerance and bigotry" for "attempting to force the rest of the
population to accept alien moral standards."

Al Frink is a Republican. He was appointed to the newly-created position of
Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Manufacturing and Services, to address
the massive loss of jobs to factories overseas. He is the co-owner of
Fabrica, a company that makes expensive carpets for the White House and the
Saudi royal family. (Motto: "The Rolls-Royce of Carpets.") Although Fabrica
has no factories abroad, it has replaced many of its workers with robots
because, as Frink?s partner explained, you don?t have to pay health
insurance for robots.

There are American soldiers in Iraq who are Republicans. They follow the
instructions to tear out a page from the pamphlet, "A Christian?s Duty"
(distributed, with military approval, by the In Touch Ministries), and mail
it to the White House, pledging that they will pray daily for the
Administration. The pamphlet includes a suggested prayer for each day.
"Monday" reads: "Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong and
courageous to do what is right regardless of critics".

There are men in Indianapolis, Indiana, who are Republicans, but they don?t
look like ordinary people. At a rally promoting Republican economic policy
and its effect on the ordinary person, those standing behind the President
were asked to remove their ties and jackets for the cameras.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Tim Pawlenty, Governor of Minnesota,
wants people arrested at antiwar demonstrations? but not at other
demonstrations? to pay an additional fine, which will be used for "homeland
security expenses."

Republicans do not like children. A little girl asked Richard Riordan,
Secretary of Education for the State of California, if he knew that her
name, Isis, "meant ?Egyptian goddess.?" "It means stupid, dirty girl,"
Riordan replied.

Republicans like ice cream, but they do not like the ice cream made by Ben &
Jerry?s, with its notorious support of progressive causes. So they have
created their own brand, Star-Spangled Ice Cream, which has pledged 19% of
its profits to conservative organizations. Among its flavors are I Hate the
French Vanilla, Gun Nut, Smaller GovernMINT, Iraqi Road, and Choc & Awe.

Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, is a Republican. He opened the nation?s first
Christian prison, where inmates spend their days in prayer and Bible study.

Republicans like Hummers. Those who purchase a Hummer H-1 for $50,590
receive a tax deduction of $50,590; those who purchase a H-2 for $111,845
receive a deduction of $107,107. "In my humble opinion," said Rick Schmidt,
founder of the International Hummer Owners Group, "the H2 is an American
icon. . . it's a symbol of what we all hold so dearly above all else, the
fact we have the freedom of choice, the freedom of happiness, the freedom of
adventure and discovery, and the ultimate freedom of expression. Those who
deface a Hummer in words or deed deface the American flag and what it stands
for."

Republicans like secrets. Asked by a reporter from a newspaper in Apopka,
Florida, the White House refused to confirm or deny that it had invited
members of the Apopka Little League team to watch a game of T-ball on the
White House Lawn.

Republicans have a sense of history. The officials of Taney County,
Missouri, refused to hang a "plaque of remembrance" honoring a Taney County
resident who died in the World Trade Center on September 11 because he was a
Democrat.

Jerry Regier, Director of the Department of Children and Families for the
State of Florida, is a Republican. He believes that children should be
subject to "manly" discipline, that a "biblical spanking" leading to
"temporary and superficial bruises or welts does not constitute child
abuse," that women should view working outside the home as "bondage," that
Christians should not marry non-Christians, and that "the radical feminist
movement has damaged the morale of many women and convinced men to
relinquish their biblical authority in the home.''

Republicans have a sense of history. Bill Black, Vice Chairman of the
California Republican Party, sent his constituents an article from the
Center for Cultural Conservatism, which read: "Given how bad things have
gotten in the old USA, it's not hard to believe that history might have
taken a better turn. ... The real damage to race relations in the South came
not from slavery, but from Reconstruction, which would not have occurred if
the South had won."

Kathy Cox, Superintendent of Schools for the State of Georgia, is a
Republican. She wants all textbooks in the state to be changed so that the
word "evolution" is replaced with "biological changes over time."

Jim Bunning, Senator from Kentucky, is a Republican. He gets a laugh at
Republican dinners by joking that his opponent in the forthcoming election,
Dan Mongiardo, a son of Italian immigrants, looks like one of the sons of
Saddam Hussein.

Republicans have a sense of history. The only illustrations in the federal
budget, published annually by the Government Printing Office, are normally
charts and graphs. This year, it features 27 color photographs of the
President. He is seen in front of the Washington monument and in front of a
giant American flag, reading to a small child, hacking a trail through the
wilderness, comforting an elderly woman in a wheelchair, and serving an
inedible food-styled Thanksgiving turkey to the troops in Iraq.

Republicans do not like almanacs. On Christmas Eve, the FBI sent a bulletin
to 18,000 police organizations warning them to watch out-- during traffic
stops, searches, and other investigations? for anyone carrying an almanac.
The bulletin stated that "the practice of researching potential targets is
consistent with known methods of al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations
that seek to maximize the likelihood of operational success through careful
planning." Kevin Seabrooke, senior editor of the World Almanac, may or may
not be a Republican. "I don?t think anyone would consider us a harmful
entity," he said.

Republicans like the Rush Limbaugh Show and like having it broadcast to the
troops overseas, five days a week, on the official American Forces Radio and
Television Service network. When it was suggested that they provide more
"balanced" political programming, Sam Johnson, Congressman from Texas, said
that it "sounds a little like Communism to me."

Stephen Downs, age 61, is probably not a Republican. He was shopping at the
Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, when security guards surrounded
him and asked him to leave. Downs was wearing a t-shirt with the words "Give
Peace a Chance." He refused to leave and was arrested for trespassing.

My friend, a middle-aged white man, is not a Republican. A photographer on
assignment for the National Geographic in Florida, he was taking pictures of
some colorfully painted vans in a parking lot. An hour later he was
arrested. An alert citizen, suspecting possible terrorist
information-gathering activity, had called the police.

Herbert O. Chadbourne is probably a Republican. A professor at the
evangelical Regent University, he developed a facial tic? the result he
said, of exposure to biological or chemical agents when he was a soldier in
the first Gulf War. The university, however, said that the tic was a sign
that he was possessed by a demon, having been cursed by God for sinfulness,
and fired him.

Jeffrey Kofman, reporter for ABC television, may not be a Republican. When
he broadcast a story that morale among American troops in Iraq was
weakening, the White House spread the story that not only is Kofman gay,
he?s a Canadian.

Republicans like technology. Although most programs for low-income housing
and job training have been greatly reduced or eliminated, the Department of
Labor has created a website for the homeless.

Republicans like methyl bromide, a pesticide that destroys the ozone layer
and leads to prostate cancer in farm workers. The Reagan administration and
160 nations signed a treaty in 1987 to eliminate methyl bromide by 2005. The
use of the pesticide has increased every year of the current Administration,
which is seeking a waiver from compliance with the treaty. Claudia A.
McMurray, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Environment, explained:
"Our farmers need this."

Republicans like dog-race gamblers, NASCAR track owners, bow-and-arrow
makers, and Oldsmobile dealers. They were among those given $170 billion in
tax cuts that were slipped into an obscure bill intended to resolve a minor
trade dispute with Europe.

Republicans do not like technology. On September 11, 2001, the FBI computers
were still running on MS-DOS, which could only perform single-word searches
of their files, and FBI agents did not have e-mail. They are hoping a new
system will be in place in 2006.

Lieutenant General William Boykin, Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for
Intelligence, formerly in charge of the hunt for Osama bin Laden and
currently directing Iraqi prison reform, is a Republican. He regularly
appears at revival meetings sponsored by a group called the Faith Force
Multiplier, which advocates applying military principles to evangelism. Its
manifesto, "Warrior Message," summons "warriors in this spiritual war for
souls of this nation and the world ." Boykin preaches that "Satan wants to
destroy this nation, he wants to destroy us as a nation, and he wants to
destroy us as a Christian army," and that Muslims "will only be defeated if
we come against them in the name of Jesus". He admits that "George Bush was
not elected by a majority of the voters in the US," but adds: "He was
appointed by God."

Kelli Arena, Justice Department correspondent for CNN, is presumably a
Republican. She reported that "there is some speculation that al Qaeda
believes it has a better chance of winning in Iraq if John Kerry is in the
White House ."

William "Bucky" Bush, uncle of the President, is a Republican. He is a
director of Engineer Support Systems, Inc., which makes military items, such
as the Chemical Biological Protected Shelter System (a mobile shed for a WMD
attack) or the Field Deployable Environmental Control Unit. Since 2001, the
company has had sales to the Pentagon of $300-400 million a year, and the
Department of Homeland Security has ordered a fleet of mobile emergency
communication centers for use in the event of a domestic biochemical attack.
He is also a director of Lord Abbett & Co., which owns 8 million shares of
Halliburton. Jeb Bush inserted a line in the Florida state budget
privatizing elevator inspections. "Bucky" is one of the owners of a company
called National Elevator Inspection Services.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. In the 1980's, Bob and Todd
Urosevich founded a voting machine company, eventually called American
Information Systems (AIS), with money from the Ahmanson family of
California. The Ahmansons are Christian Reconstructionists who want to
establish a theocracy based on biblical law and under the "dominion" of
Christians. They support the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, and
alcoholics. They are members of the secretive Council for National Policy,
which combines remnants of the John Birch Society with apocalyptic
Christians and is considered by many to be the driving force of "hard right"
ideology. The Ahmansons sold the company to the McCarthy Group, whose
Chairman and co-owner was Chuck Hagel. The McCarthy Group bought another
voting machine company, Cronus Industries, from the Hunt oil family in
Texas, also Christian Reconstructionists, who had supplied the original
money for the Council for National Policy. The two voting machine companies
were merged and became Election Systems and Software (ES&S), with Hagel as
CEO.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. ES&S counts 80% of the vote in
the state of Nebraska. In 1996, Hagel resigned from ES&S to run for Senator
from Nebraska. His victory was called a "stunning upset" by Nebraska
newspapers: African-American districts that had never voted for a Republican
voted for Hagel. In 1992, Hagel ran again and received 83% of the vote? 3%
more than ES&S-tabulated votes and the largest election victory in the
history of Nebraska. His Democratic opponent asked for a recount, but the
Republican-dominated state legislature had passed a law that only ES&S could
recount the votes. Hagel won the recount. No longer Chairman of the McCarthy
Group, Hagel had been succeeded by Thomas McCarthy, who was his campaign
treasurer.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. When Jeb Bush first ran for
Governor of Florida, his first choice for Lieutenant Governor was Sandra
Mortham, a lobbyist for ES&S, who was receiving commissions for every county
that bought ES&S machines.

Republicans have a sense of history. John LeBoutillier, former Congressman
and author of Harvard Hates Americia, wants to build the "Counter Clinton
Library," a few minutes walk from the official Clinton Presidential Library
in Little Rock, Arkansas. This library will be devoted to the "distortions,
slanders, spins, and outright lies" of the Clinton Administration.

The Senate of the State of Texas is controlled by Republicans. They passed
an "abortion counseling law" which requires doctors to warn women that
abortion might lead to breast cancer, for which there is no medical
evidence.

The President?s Council of Economic Advisers are Republicans. In order to
show an increase in manufacturing jobs, they are considering reclassifying
fast-food workers as "manufacturers," since they "manufacture" hamburgers.

Republicans like formaldehyde. In support of changing the regulations on
emissions from plywood factories, the White House Office of Management and
Budget deleted references to studies by the National Cancer Institute and
replaced them with references to studies by the Chemical Industry Institute
for Toxicology. The NCI?s estimate of the risk of leukemia from exposure to
formaldehyde was 10,000 times greater than the estimate by the CIIT.

Specialist Sean Baker of the Kentucky National Guard, was probably once a
Republican, but may no longer be one. Assigned to the military prison in
Guantanamo Bay, he volunteered to portray a detainee in a training drill. A
five-man "immediate response force" choked and beat him on the steel floor
of the 6' x 8' cell, despite his shouting the code word and telling his
assailants he was an American soldier. They finally stopped when his orange
prison suit was ripped off, revealing a military uniform. Baker spent 48
days in the hospital and still suffers from seizures. Laurie Arellano, a
Republican and spokesperson for the Pentagon, said that Baker?s hospital
stay was "not related to the beating at Guantanamo." A few days later she
said this was not true. The incident was taped, but the tape has now been
lost.

Bill Nevins may or may not have been a Republican, but it is doubtful he is
still one. A teacher at the huge Rio Rancho High School-- with over 3000
students, the largest in New Mexico? he organized a school poetry club,
which held a Poetry Slam. At the reading, a student read a poem criticizing
the President and the war in Iraq, in language that was neither violent or
obscene. Nevins was immediately fired by the Principal, Gary Tripp, for
promoting "disrespectful speech." He then banned the poetry club and all
classes in poetry, ordered the student to destroy all of her poetry, and
threatened to fire her mother? also a teacher at the school? if the girl did
not. At a school assembly a few days later, Tripp read a poem of his own,
instructing students who disagreed with him to "shut your faces."

Republicans like sex. Jack Ryan, candidate (now former candidate) for
Senator from Illinois, forced his wife (now ex-wife) to visit sadomasochist
sex clubs in New York and Paris and insisted she have sex with him there
while others watched. He defended himself by calling these "romantic
getaways," and noted,"There was no breaking of any laws. There was no
breaking of any marriage laws. There was no breaking of the Ten Commandments
anywhere." Republicans supported him, because, as columnist Robert Novack
said, "Jack Ryan, unlike Bill Clinton, did not commit adultery and did not
lie." Ryan?s ex-wife is the actress Jeri Ryan who, on the television program
"Star Trek," portrayed a Borg. (Motto: "Resistance is futile.")

Republicans like meat, and like their meat regulated by people from the meat
industry. At the US Department of Agriculture (USDA), Elizabeth Johnson,
Senior Advisor on Food and Nutrition, is formerly Associate Director for
Food Policy, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. James Moseley, Deputy
Secretary of Agriculture, is formerly Managing Partner, Infinity Pork. Dale
Moore, Chief of Staff, is formerly Executive Director for Legislative
Affairs, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Dr. Eric Hentges, Director,
Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, is formerly Vice President, the
National Pork Board. Dr. Charles "Chuck" Lambert, Deputy Undersecretary for
Marketing and Regulatory Programs, is formerly Chief Economist, National
Cattlemen's Beef Association. Donna Reifschneider, Administrator for Grain
Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration, is formerly President,
National Pork Producers Council. Mary Kirtley Waters, Assistant Secretary
for Congressional Relations, is formerly Senior Director, ConAgra Foods.
Scott Charbo, Chief Information Officer, is formerly President, mPower3, a
subsidiary of ConAgra Foods. The USDA prohibited Creekstone Farms Premium
Beef, a company in Kansas, from testing all its cattle for mad cow disease,
for it would cause undue alarm among consumers and pressure the other beef
producers to similarly test their stock.

Republicans like Freedom fries (formerly known as French fries). At the
request of the frozen Freedom fry (formerly known as French fry) industry,
the USDA changed the classification of frozen Freedom fries (formerly known
as French fries) to "fresh vegetable," so that the food could be listed in
the Department?s promotion of a healthy diet.

Republicans do not like sex. Robert F. McDonnell, Chairman of the House
Courts of Justice Committee for the State of Virginia, said that "engaging
in anal or oral sex might disqualify a person from being a judge."
Republicans like sex. A few days later, McDonnell?s campaign manager, Robin
Vanderwell, was arrested for soliciting a young boy over the internet.

Ralph Reed is a Republican. When he was the director of the Christian
Coalition, he campaigned against gambling, calling it a "cancer on the
American body politic" that is "stealing food from the mouths of children."
He is now the lobbyist for a large casino.

Anna Perez, former Counselor for Communications to Condoleezza Rice and
former Press Secretary for Barbara Bush, is a Republican. NBC appointed her
Executive Vice President for Communications. "I love the television
business," she said, although "I have no expertise in it."

Paul O?Neill is a Republican. When he was Secretary of the Treasury, he
recommended that corporations pay no taxes at all. As it is, only 60% of
corporations currently pay federal taxes.

Michael Skupkin, founder of a religious software company and leader of the
Presidential Prayer Team, is a Republican. He was urged to run for Senator
from Michigan, but eventually refused. Skupkin had become famous on the
televison program, "Survivor 2," for catching and slaughtering a wild boar
with his bare hands, and then painting his face with its blood. The
Presidential Prayer Team is an independent organization with millions of
participants, who are given daily instructions, such as: "Pray for the
president as he meets with Singaporean Prime Minister Goh Chok Ton on May 6.
The two leaders will discuss strengthening our bilateral relations as well
as the U.S.-Singapore Free Trade Agreement."

Mark Rey, former Vice President of the American Forest and Paper
Association, former Vice President of the National Forest Products
Association, former Executive Director of the American Forest Resource
Alliance, a coalition of 350 timber corporations, is a Republican. As the
Under Secretary for Natural Resources and the Environment, he now oversees
the U.S. Forest Service, and is responsible for the management of 155
national forests, 19 national grasslands, and 15 land utilization projects
on 192,000,000 acres of publicly-owned lands in 44 states. He is the author
of the "Salvage Rider," which suspended all environmental laws in the
national forests, and which was called by the New York Times "the worst
piece of conservation legislation ever written."

Republicans like electronic voting machines. 8 million people? 8% of the
voters? vote on machines made by Diebold Inc., whose CEO is Wally O?Dell. In
2000 O?Dell was Chairman of the Ohio Bush for President Committee. In 2004
he has said that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral
votes to the President." Bob Urosevich, co-founder of AIS, is now Director
of Diebold Election Systems. (His brother remains at ES&S.)

Republicans support education. This year the President has proposed new
education initiatives: $40 million to help math and science professionals
become teachers, $52 million to create more Advanced Placement courses in
high school, $100 million for reading for middle and high schoolers who
still have trouble reading, and $270 million for sexual abstinence classes.

Republicans support legislation with cheerful names: Healthy Forests, Clean
Skies, Climate Leaders, No Child Left Behind, KidCare. Healthy Forests opens
up Sequoia National Park and other parks and national wilderness areas to
logging and more roads for loggers. Clean Skies allows 68% more nitrogen
oxide, 125% more sulfur dioxide, and 420% more mercury air pollution than
the Clean Air law it replaces. Climate Leaders is a plan for businesses to
voluntarily reduce their greenhouse gas emissions; of the many thousands of
potential Leaders, only 14 have volunteered. No Child Left Behind cuts most
school programs in favor of standardized testing. KidCare, a Jeb Bush
initiative in the state of Florida, resulted in 167,500 children losing
their medical insurance.

Jerry Thacker, marketing consultant and member of the Presidential Advisory
Commission on AIDS and HIV, is a Republican. He has called AIDS the "gay
plague," describes homosexuality as a "deathstyle," and states that only
"Christ can rescue the homosexual."

The Rev. Scott Breedlove, pastor of the Jesus Church of Cedar Rapids, Iowa,
is probably a Republican. His plans for a large outdoor book-burning were
thwarted by officials of the Cedar Rapids Fire Department. A city fire
inspector suggested shredding the books, but Breedlove said that didn?t seem
very biblical.

Pat Tillman was probably a Republican. After September 11, he gave up a
multimillion dollar contract as a professional football player to join the
Army Rangers in Afghanistan, where he died in combat. As the only soldier
with some previous national recognition, he was on the verge of media
canonization when it was revealed that he had been killed by American troops
in a "friendly fire" incident.

Zell Miller, Senator from Georgia, might as well be a Republican. He is a
Democrat who campaigns for the President and speaks at Republican events.
The torture at Abu Ghraib prison reminded him of his high school gym: "The
two times I think I have been most humiliated in my life was standing in a
big room, naked as a jaybird with about fifty others and they were checking
us out, now that was humiliating. It was humiliating showering with sixty
others in a public shower. It didn't kill us did it? No one ever died from
humiliation."

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Police and intelligence authorities are
now examining immigration files and lists of voter registration, driver?s
licences, university enrollment, library withdrawals, airplane reservations,
credit card purchases, birth certificates, and Social Security numbers in
the attempt to uncover terrorist links. They have, however, been expressly
forbidden by Attorney General Ashcroft from looking at the lists of
background checks for gun purchasers.

Republicans are fighting terrorism, but it is sometimes difficult to tell
who is a terrorist and who is a Republican. Attorney General John Ashcroft
has warned that al-Qaeda operatives in the United States are very likely to
be "European-looking," in their late twenties or early thirties, traveling
with their families, and speaking English.

Republican like large bombs. Having already developed the Massive Ordnamce
Air Blast (MOAB), a 21,000-pound bomb, they are now working on MOP, the
Massive Ordnance Penetrator, which weighs 30,000 pounds.

Rick Perry, Governor of Texas, is a Republican. He does not believe that the
wealthy should pay for the education of the poor, so he has proposed
reducing property taxes and replacing them with larger taxes on cigarettes
and alcohol, and a $5 tax every time a patron enters a topless bar.
John Graham, former CEO of Strat at comm, a public relations and lobbying firm
for the automobile industry, and founder of the Sports Utility Vehicle
Owners of America, is a Republican. As the Administrator in Charge of
Regulations for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, he has
introduced greatly inferior standards for automobile tires.

Judge John Leon Holmes, appointed by the President to a lifetime seat on the
Federal District Court, is a Republican. He supports a constitutional
amendment banning abortion, has compared pro-choice advocates to Nazis and
abortion to slavery, and has written that "concern for rape victims is a red
herring because conceptions from rape occur with approximately the same
frequency as snowfall in Miami." Confronted with statistics showing that
some 30,000 American women become pregnant each year from rape or incest,
Jeff Sessions, Senator from Alabama and a Republican, defended Holmes by
saying that he was merely using "a literary device called exaggeration for
effect."

Josh Llano, Southern Baptist Army chaplain in Iraq, is a Republican. At the
Army V Corps camp in the desert near Najaf, where water is in short supply
and washing rare, he was given a 500-gallon pool to use for baptisms.
Soldiers are agreeing to sit through the three-hour ceremony in order to get
a bath.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Rick Santorum, Senator from
Pennsylvania, in support of the constitutional amendment banning gay
marriage, said: "I would argue that the future of our country hangs in the
balance because the future of marriage hangs in the balance. Isn't that the
ultimate homeland security, standing up and defending marriage?"

Republicans are fighting terrorism. In October 2001, Ansar Mahmood, a pizza
delivery man and legal immigrant in Hudson, New York, went to the banks of
the Hudson River to take some photographs of the beautiful scenery to send
to his village in Pakistan. What he did not know was that he was standing
near a water treatment plant and that there was a general hysteria about
terrorists poisoning the water supply. Mahmood is still in jail.

Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi, is a Republican. His campaign was
vigorously supported by the President and the Council of Conservative
Citizens, which supports deporting African-Americans to Africa, denies the
Holocaust took place, and opposes the immigration of all non-white people as
well as the "mixing of the races."

Allan Fitzsimmons, Fuels Coordinator at the Department of Interior and in
charge of implementing the Healthy Forests initiative, is a Republican.
Although he has no background in forest management, he has written articles
questioning the existence of ecosystems, calling them a "mental construct."
He has accused religious organizations that promote protecting the
environment of succumbing to idolatry.

Republicans do not like children. The Food and Drug Administration has
eliminated laws requiring separate testing for drugs that are prescribed for
children as well as adults.

Republicans like to help impoverished nations. The Administration has
proposed that these countries generate income by allowing hunters to kill
elephants and other "trophy" animals, and wildlife traders and the pet
industry to capture rare birds. It has also proposed that the importation of
ivory tusks, skins, and antlers be made legal again.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. It was a surprise when Max
Cleland, a popular Democratic Senator from Georgia, lost his bid for
re-election. Some attributed the defeat to Republican television
advertisements juxtaposing Cleland with Osama bin Laden, questioning the
Senator?s patriotism even though Cleland had lost both legs and an arm in
the Vietnam War. This was the first election in which all votes in Georgia
were cast on electronic voting machines. The machines were manufactured by
Diebold.

Republicans do not like international treaties.

Randall Tobias, global coordinator for AIDS, is a Republican. After two
years, only 2% of the $18 billion allotted to fight AIDS has been spent.
One-third of it, by law, must be used for "abstinence education." Much of
the rest will be spent on drugs. Tobias decides whether the Administration
will purchase generic drugs or name-brand drugs, which are three to five
times as expensive. Tobias is the former CEO of the pharmaceutical
corporation Eli Lilly, which has donated at least $1.5 million to
Republicans since 2000.

William G. Myers, recently appointed to a lifetime seat on the Court of
Appeals, is a Republican. Evidently a classical scholar, he referred to the
California Desert Protection Act, which created Joshua Tree National Park,
Death Valley National Park, and the Mojave National Preserve, as "an example
of legislative hubris."

Republicans like electronic voting machines. The State of Maryland is
worried about possible fraud in its machines, so it has hired the Science
Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to oversee elections. The
former CEO of SAIC and current Chairman of its VoteHere division, is Admiral
Bill Owens, former military aide to Dick Cheney.

Republicans do not like the cactus pygmy owl, although there are only thirty
left, Puget Sound orcas, Florida manatees, Florida panthers, or the Kemp?s
ridley turtle.

Cindy Jacobs is a Republican. She is the founder of the Generals of
Intercession, an organization devoted to "winning nations for Christ"
through a "military-style prayer strategy." In 2002, God told her that the
U.S. would invade Iraq, and she convened an "international gathering of
Generals" in Washington, D.C.. "Each of us felt in our hearts that God wants
to humble the spirit of Islam and its god, Allah, and that God is leading
President Bush." At the meeting, according to Jacobs, one of the Generals
said "she had been studying Jeremiah 50:2, which says, ?Declare among the
nations, Proclaim, and set up a standard; Proclaim--do not conceal it--Say,
Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed.? Some Bible translations say ?confounded?
rather than ?shamed.? As she looked up the word ?confounded? in her lexicon,
she found that the word in Hebrew is ?Bush?! We were amazed at that!"

Mickey Mouse is a Republican. 7.3 million shares of Disney are owned by the
Florida state pension fund, which is controlled by Jeb Bush. Disney has an
agreement with the state granting them complete control, "free from
government oversight," of over 40,000 acres. In the days following September
11, the President urged the country to "Go down to Disney World in Florida.
Take your families and enjoy life." Disney refused to allow its Miramax
division to distribute the Michael Moore film "Fahrenheit 9/11."

Republicans are fighting terrorism, but the one genuine terrorist captured,
accidentally, on American soil, has never been mentioned in the 2,295 press
releases issued by John Ashcroft and the Office of the Attorney General.
William Krar of Noonday, Texas, mailed a package containing false U.N.
credentials, Defense Intelligence Agency identification cards, phony birth
certificates, and forged federal concealed weapons permits to a fellow
terrorist. The Post Office delivered it to the wrong address, and the
recipient notified the FBI. At Krar?s home they found fully automatic
machine guns, remote-controlled explosive devices disguised as briefcases,
60 pipe bombs, 500,000 rounds of ammunition, and enough pure sodium cyanide,
as the FBI said, "to kill everyone inside a 30,000 square foot building.
Krar, however, is a White Supremacist, and not a Muslim.

Republicans do not like elections. After the Presidential election of 2000,
Congress approved $4 billion to help states improve their voting systems for
the 2004 election. Very little of the money has been distributed. Congress
also created the Election Assistance Commission to oversee these
improvements. For years, the White House delayed appointing any members or
providing any of the funds appropriated. In 2004, it named DeForest "Buster"
Soaries Jr., a New Jersey minister, as Director of the Commission. His first
act was to ask for emergency legislation from Congress giving the Commission
the authority to cancel the elections in the event of a terrorist attack.

God is a Republican. Speaking to a group of Amish farmers, the President
told them: "God speaks through me."

Republicans have a sense of history. Mitch McConnell, Senator from Kentucky,
wants to replace Alexander Hamilton on the $10 bill with Ronald Reagan. Dana
Rohrabacher, Congressman from California, wants to replace Andrew Jackson on
the $20 bill with Ronald Reagan. Jeff Miller, Congressman from Florida,
wants to replace John Kennedy on the 50-cent piece with Ronald Reagan. Mark
Souder, Congressman from Indiana, wants to replace Franklin Roosevelt on the
dime with Ronald Reagan. Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader, wants to rename
the Pentagon as the Ronald Reagan National Defense Building. Grover Norquist
of the Leave Us Alone Coalition (whose weekly meetings are attended by
representatives of the President and Vice President) and Director of the
Ronald Reagan Legacy Project, wants to put a monument to Ronald Reagan in
every one of the 3000 counties in the United States. Matt Salmon,
Congressman from Arizona, wants Ronald Reagan?s head carved on Mount
Rushmore.

George W. Bush, President of the United States, is a Republican. To
demonstrate personal sacrifice and his determination to win the War on
Terror, he gave up desserts and candy a few days before he announced the
invasion of Iraq.

[1 August 2004]

Copyright c. 2004 Eliot Weinberger. This may circulate freely on the
internet; for print publication please write: unreal at att.net
<mailto:unreal at att.net> .

Eliot Weinberger's chronicles of the Bush Era are collected in 9/12,
published by Prickly Paradigm/Univ. of Chicago Press.

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 16:18:57 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:18:57 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <1a3.27b2073d.2e43f031@aol.com>

would it be a crazy idea to try and put together a book of poems that i  have 
written.
if so how do i go about this.. where would i take it to get it published /  
looked at ?
 


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From clitophon  Thu Aug  5 16:29:44 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
In-Reply-To: <1a3.27b2073d.2e43f031@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040805202944.51539.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com>

my advice to you is do not on any account listen to
advice
advisors will only tell you how to repeat their
mistakes
PM
--- LiquidLoveGate at aol.com wrote:

> would it be a crazy idea to try and put together a
> book of poems that i  have 
> written.
> if so how do i go about this.. where would i take it
> to get it published /  
> looked at ?
>  
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail



From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 16:31:36 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:31:36 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <12c.4844d850.2e43f328@aol.com>

so u say listen to my own heart.
if i want to do something go for it...
 
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From clitophon  Thu Aug  5 16:50:59 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
In-Reply-To: <12c.4844d850.2e43f328@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040805205059.54925.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com>

I think so but can the heart really be listened to? 
I?d try to cultivate personal contacts rather than
submitting blind.  I submit blind but living in
Belfast it is impossible for me to read all the little
journals.  Being blind is better than knowing at least
half of the other poets around.  I met Roger Elkin,
Wolfgang, Erminia and at least a dozen other rascals
and assorted lollypopwomen this way.  
PM
--- LiquidLoveGate at aol.com wrote:

> so u say listen to my own heart.
> if i want to do something go for it...
>  
> > _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 



From terzarima  Thu Aug  5 17:20:25 2004
From: terzarima (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:20:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <5970294.1091740825674.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

I would advise you to simply read a lot.  You have to love poetry enough to read a great deal of it first.

There really is no simple formula to follow, and I'm afraid simply "following your heart" is not really going to help you. :-)  You need some knowledge as well.

Editors have their tastes, so the first step is to get to know what it is they like to publish. Read them throughly and get to know them well. Read publications you love and send your work there <b>-->but only if you feel your work might fit in<--</b> . 

If you aren't sure what publications you will really love, do this:  Pick out a contemporary poet whose work you really like and see what magazines published them.  Read those magazines! Subscribe! This will probably lead you to some other poets whose work you might also really enjoy, and it will give you a chance to get to know more thoroughly what the editors of that publication are looking for.  

Just read a lot, read endlessly, read, read, read and don't worry about publishing your own work for awhile. After awhile, you will probably gravitate toward those publications that might like what you have to offer, and by then you will do so from a position of some knowledge and understanding.  Whatever you do: DON'T send your work out en masse or at random. It really is a waste of postage, and it is remarkably easy for editors to tell who actually reads their publication and who is just using mail merge.

That's really all you can do. Like I said, there isn't any magical formula. For what it is worth, everyone I know who has published their work has had as much interest in what is being written by other poets as they have had in their own work, and they have tended to live in apartments furnished mostly by books. They invariably love poetry with a deep passion, and are the kind of people who would keep writing it and reading it whether or not their own work ever got published. If you don't have this love, you won't be able to sustain the effort. 

My two bits,

Suzanne  

-----Original Message-----
From: LiquidLoveGate at aol.com
Sent: Aug 5, 2004 1:31 PM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing

so u say listen to my own heart.
if i want to do something go for it...
 




From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 17:21:46 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:21:46 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <1cc.27b589cf.2e43feea@aol.com>

OK Pm answer me this.
what would you do..
i have  a whole bunch of poems that i have written
they are in a folder that i have sitting in my study.
Noone sees them. i feel like i could be doing a lot
more with my work than what i am already.
and i want to.
i want people to be able to see my work and my talent..
whats my first step.
put yourself in my situation if you havent acomplished it
already..
what do i do.. keep it just to myself. or actually do something
with my work so people can see .
RC
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From kpaul  Thu Aug  5 19:23:18 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:23:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
In-Reply-To: <1cc.27b589cf.2e43feea@aol.com>
References: <1cc.27b589cf.2e43feea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040805182058.G47019@kpaul.spinweb.net>

is the poetry useful to you with no one else everhaving read it?

if you do need/want readers other than self, i would get me feet wet 
online. stay away from poetry.com, but there are quite a few good poetry 
forums and sites out there for poets.

i guess i would ask you, tho, what role your poems play to you 
personally...

-kpaul

p.s. sorry for butting in, but Pm is my intials too sort of ;)

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 LiquidLoveGate at aol.com wrote:

> OK Pm answer me this.
> what would you do..
> i have  a whole bunch of poems that i have written
> they are in a folder that i have sitting in my study.
> Noone sees them. i feel like i could be doing a lot
> more with my work than what i am already.
> and i want to.
> i want people to be able to see my work and my talent..
> whats my first step.
> put yourself in my situation if you havent acomplished it
> already..
> what do i do.. keep it just to myself. or actually do something
> with my work so people can see .
> RC
>



From VanShel400  Fri Aug  6 07:15:23 2004
From: VanShel400 (VanShel400 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 07:15:23 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <a3.5ff17b82.2e44c24b@aol.com>

Try going to open mic poetry readings
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From JforJames  Fri Aug  6 13:38:37 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:38:37 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Melic XXIV Now Online
Message-ID: <1c4.1cac2a24.2e451c1d@aol.com>

From: inbox at melicreview.com 
To: melicreview at hotmail.com 
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: Melic XXIV Now Online!
 
Welcome to Melic XXIV!
www.melicreview.com/current/
 
(First, we beg your indulgence if this is an unwanted announcement worthy of 
your spam folder, as we need to tidy up our mailing list.)
 
It?s hard to believe we?ve entered our seventh year online (our first issue 
debuted in Spring of 1998). I think this an exceptional issue and give all 
credit to Jim Zola, Poetry Editor (assisted by Walter Bargen), and to Val 
Cihylik, Fiction Editor. As for the essays, I must give my wife, Kathleen, credit for 
her editing and contributions. Should we list the authors? Most subscriber?s 
letters do, so here goes:
 
Poetry:
 
Sarah Allard, Rae Armantrout, John Balaban, Marcus Bales, Donna Biffar, Jared 
Carter, Joshua Corey, Juan Delgado, Debra Di Blasi, Thomas Dorsett, Camille 
Dungy, Bob Grumman, R. S. Gwynn, Annalynn Hammond, Mark Jarman, Meg Kearney, 
Guy Kettlehack, Michael Paul Ladanyi, Christine Klocek-Lim, Tom Moore, Dan 
Memmolo, Aimee Nezhukumatathil, Richard Newman, Nancy Powers, Chris O?Carroll, 
David Ray, Tad Richards, Lee Ann Roripaugh, John Rybicki, Evie Shockley, Jim 
Simmerman, W. D. Snodgrass, Dawn Tefft, Dara Wier, Kelley Jean White, Michael 
White, Leslie Wolf, and Clarence Wolfshohl.
 
Fiction:
 
Gwendolyn Joyce Mintz, Corey Mesler, Kirby Wright, Siew Siang Tay, and 
Michael K. White.
 
Essays
 
C. E. Chaffin
 
Web Design
 
The multi-talented Jim Zola!
 
>From the Poetry Editor: 
 
"Finishing a year as poetry editor at Melic was an accomplishment in itself. 
My initial objective when I took this position was to try and act as 
matchmaker between the worlds of print and online poetry. Not an easy task. I also 
wanted to keep the poetry selections diverse. In order to keep me honest in this 
second objective, I solicited the help of several other poets." 
 
--Jim Zola
 
>From the Guest Assistant Poetry Editor:
 
I believe that these poems "act naturally" and bridge those chasms between 
emotion and artifice, between the reader and the wizard behind the curtain, and 
I want to thank everyone who gave me the opportunity to read their work. 
 
--Walter Bargen
 
>From the Fiction Editor: 
 
The five stories in this issue truly do run the gamut from the serious to the 
ridiculous: mistaken identity at a Civil War homecoming, a World War I hero 
not so lucky in life, a furry animal as a cure for a broken heart, the messy 
confluence of a completely different furry animal, a poltergeist and mayonnaise, 
and a cautionary tale about a schoolyard experiment with words that goes 
awry. So crank up the AC, fire up your computer and enjoy.
 
--Val Cihylik
 
Submissions are now open until October 31 for our December issue. Poets 
interested in submitting should first read CE?s essay, "Towards a New Direction in 
Poetry," as we will be looking for "power lyrics." (This does not mean we 
shall exclude other styles of sufficient quality!)
 
Thine for Melic,
 
C. E. Chaffin, Editor
melicreview at hotmail.com
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From elemenope  Fri Aug  6 13:24:52 2004
From: elemenope (ELEMENOPE Productions)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 01:24:52 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Weinberger Doesn't Examine Sandy Bergler's Slop
 Espionage, Also, Alas.
In-Reply-To: <200408051943.i75JhbYD010536@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200408051943.i75JhbYD010536@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100307bd3905e82d5c@[204.215.202.31]>

The DemKrat RadLib approach to stupidity, as exemplified in their 
Billionaire-by-Marriage-to-a-Spouse-who-is-as-well-a-Billionaire-by-Marriage 
War Hero candidate (by virtue of four months in Nam, hmmm, that's a 
medal a month [all discarded into quantum space/time where they 
reappeared on his Senate office wall], and, hey, three Purple Hearts 
[one, self inflicted by self thrown hand grenade mishap with 
resultant rice fussilade shrapnel to his absurd butt] and by obscure 
regulation the cleverest Operator gets an early out!), is to STUPIFY, 
to wit:

>THE PATRIOT PERSPECTIVE
>
>Kerry is AWOL from Iraq...
>
>"I will be a commander-in-chief who will never mislead us into
>war," claims John Kerry, with a none-too-subtle implication
>that President George W. Bush lied about the threat posed by
>Saddam Hussein.
>
>On that note, we decided to take a look at the historical
>record. Indeed, we wanted to know precisely what the senator from
>Massachusetts had been saying all along about the Butcher of
>Baghdad. Lo and behold, we found that Kerry makes a compelling
>argument in support of President's Bush's actions to free the
>Iraqi people -- and the world -- from Saddam's terror.
>
>Back in 1991, Kerry voted against the use of force in removing
>Iraq from neighboring Kuwait (S. J. Res. 2), later explaining that
>he only "voted against the timing of it. I said very clearly in
>my statement on the Senate floor that I was committed to getting
>Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait...and that I was prepared to go to
>war if it took that...."
>
>Regarding Bill Clinton's attacks on Iraqi targets, Kerry said
>in 1997, "So clearly the allies may not like it...where's the
>backbone of Russia, where's the backbone of France, where are they
>in expressing their condemnation of such clearly illegal activity?"
>
>A year later, after additional bombing, Kerry said, "We have to
>be prepared to go the full distance, which is to do everything
>possible to disrupt [Saddam's] regime and to encourage the
>forces of democracy. ... [H]e can rebuild both chemical and
>biological. And every indication is, because of his deception
>and duplicity in the past, he will seek to do that. So we will
>not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the
>world with a bombing attack. ... I believe that in the post-Cold
>War period this issue of proliferation, particularly in the hands
>of Saddam Hussein, is critical."
>
>Three months after the 9/11 attack on our countrymen by
>state-supported Jihadi terrorists, Kerry argued, "Saddam is
>one who is and has acted like a terrorist. ... For instance,
>Saddam Hussein has used weapons of mass destruction against his
>own people. ... He is and has acted like a terrorist, and he has
>engaged in activities that are unacceptable."
>
>Reiterating his position on Saddam prior to 9/11, Kerry said, "[I]
>think we ought to put the heat on Saddam Hussein. I've said that
>for a number of years. I criticized the Clinton administration
>for backing off of the inspections...." He then added, "I think
>we need to put the pressure on, no matter what the evidence is
>about September 11."
>
>Regarding Afghanistan and Iraq, Kerry said, "I think we clearly
>have to keep the pressure on terrorism globally. This doesn't end
>with Afghanistan by any imagination. And I think the president
>has made that clear. I think we have made that clear. Terrorism is
>a global menace. It's a scourge. And it is absolutely vital that
>we continue [to combat terrorism], for instance, Saddam Hussein."
>
>Regarding diplomatic solutions and the Bush administration's
>efforts to get the UN to enforce the Security Council's unanimous
>mandates on Iraqi arms, Kerry said, in May of 2002, "[Saddam is]
>buying time and playing a game, in my judgment. Do we have to go
>through that process? The answer is yes. We're precisely doing
>that. And I think that's what Colin Powell did today."
>
>In July of 2002, Kerry told the Democrat Leadership Council,
>"I agree completely with this Administration's goal of a regime
>change in Iraq.... Saddam Hussein is a renegade and outlaw who
>turned his back on the tough conditions of his surrender put in
>place by the United Nations in 1991."
>
>That's "completely," fellow Patriots.
>
>A month later in a New York Times op-ed, Kerry asserted, "If Saddam
>Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's
>already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement even
>if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States,
>a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act."
>
>That's even if it's "mostly at the hands of the United States."
>
>In September of 2002, a year after 9/11, Kerry said: "It is
>imperative that we issue an ultimatum to Saddam Hussein, and
>that would require immediate and full compliance, and if Hussein
>doesn't comply, the United States must be prepared to go in
>and...if need be, largely alone remove Saddam Hussein from power.
>There is also no question that Saddam Hussein continues to pursue
>weapons of mass destruction, and his success can threaten both our
>interests in the region and our security at home. ...[Saddam] may
>even miscalculate and slide these [WMD] off to terrorist groups
>to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United
>States. It's the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat."
>
>A few days later, he told MSNBC, "The president...always reserves
>the right to act unilaterally to protect the interests of our
>country." On 11 October 2002, Kerry voted for the Iraq War
>Resolution (H.J. Res. 114).
>
>That's "unilaterally."
>
>In May of 2003, Kerry defended that vote, saying, "I think it
>was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the
>President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the
>fact that we did disarm him." But when Howard Dean turned up the
>heat with his anti-war message, Kerry began to waffle. Announcing
>his candidacy, Kerry's support for regime change morphed into,
>"I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein
>comply with the resolutions of the United Nations."
>
>Notice the head of the pin on which Kerry is now attempting to
>dance. He's claiming that he only "voted to threaten the use of
>force." In other words, he's now insisting that he only voted to
>deliver a hollow threat. Not exactly a profile in courage, eh?
>
>As the Demo-primary season approached, Kerry began to hone his
>newfound opposition to the removal of Saddam: "They rushed to
>war. They were intent on going to war."
>
>When it came time to provide supplemental appropriations for
>our troops in Iraq, Kerry (who planned to run his campaign on
>his veteran status) claimed, "I don't think any United States
>senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to
>whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That's
>irresponsible.  I don't think anyone in the Congress is going to
>not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability
>to be able to defend themselves. We're not going to cut and run
>and not do the job."
>
>But on 17 October 2003, Kerry abandoned our troops, voting
>against S. 1689, the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for
>Iraq and Afghanistan Security and Reconstruction. Thus, he put
>pure political expedience ahead of his obligation to arm and
>equip our fighting forces -- specifically those fighting forces
>currently standing in harm's way.
>
>In January of this year, when asked if he was "one of the
>anti-war candidates," Kerry answered firmly, "I am -- yeah." After
>announcing his running mate in March, he said of John Edwards,
>"I'm proud to say that John joined me in voting against that
>$87 billion...."
>
>Got that? He's actually "proud" of having stiffed our troops.
>
>Last month, when asked by CBS if his vote for the removal of
>Saddam was a mistake (which, politically, it clearly was), Kerry
>fumbled his answer: "What -- what -- what I voted for, you --
>you -- you see, you're playing here. What -- what I voted for
>was a -- an authority for the president to go to war as a last
>resort if Saddam Hussein did not disarm and we needed to go to
>war." When pressed for a direct answer to the question, Kerry
>responded curtly, "I think I answered your question."
>
>When asked why he "voted for the war, but didn't vote for
>the money to finance the war," Kerry responded, "That's not a
>flip-flop. That's not a flip-flop."
>
>And this week, Kerry claims, "I believe this administration is
>actually encouraging the recruitment of terrorists. The policies
>of this administration, I believe and others believe very deeply,
>have resulted in an increase of animosity and anger focused on
>the United States of America." (Here we suppose "others" is in
>reference to the same yet-to-be-identified foreign leaders who
>Kerry claims support his candidacy.)
>
>The reality is, of course, that it's our very existence, and not
>our actions, that the Jihadis really object to. Kerry's failure
>to acknowledge this fact is indicative of just how deeply he has
>delved into the fevered swamp.
>
>Last week, greeting Demo-conventioneers with a limp Clintonesque
>salute, Kerry intoned that he was "reporting for duty." To which
>we say, it's about time -- because he has been AWOL from Iraq
>since he voted to invade.

Commentator:  Mark Alexander

Forwarded by:  Richard Dillon
ELEMENOPE Productions

I'll take Alexander's Republican Federalism over Eliot Weinberger's 
RadLib Legerdemain from here to eternity.

For those who have read this far, here is my astrological prediction 
on the Fight: On the day of the election, November 2, 2004, the Great 
Benefic, Jupiter, will be aspecting both candidates charts with 
utmost drama.  W will see a Jupiter return activating the roots of 
his life.  He will feel grounded and good.  No anxiety.  The 
consummate moxie the RadLibs so hate will be burning brightly. 
Kerry, on the other hand, will have reached the culmination of his 
entire life campaign begun when he entered the Navy during the 
Vietnam War.  In my view, and in the view of practioners of this 
craft that I respect, Kerry will be finally seen for what he is:  A 
bamboozler.  For, that same Jupiter, transiting his MidHeaven, the 
acme of his public reknown, is, as well, connected to his Neptune, 
planet of duplicity and illusion and fraud and film. (FILM!)  He and 
his partners, the Hollywood smiling Shyster and Mop Headed Mother 
Ketchup, will have been seen for what they are.  Their absurd jig 
will be up.  America will move on, having escaped their grasping 
frenzy as well as the ever mounting shadow of G. Goldfinger Soros.

If I am wrong on that day, I will admit it here, as well as my 
profound regret and fear for what the country will become in their 
seditious hands.  But, hey, Professor Gudding will be crowing along 
with Weinberger ( - whose poem, _Atlantis_, succeeded.  Frankly, 
Eliot should read his Zell Miller before going any further with this 
sort of rant.  But, hey, I only used to run into Paz on Harvard St., 
Eliot, to his undying credit, was his translator.).

R.D.



>
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:02:32 -0800
>From: "Chris Stroffolino " <cstroffo at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
>To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
>	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>Message-ID: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338 at pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Ah, what an "ear" that fella whineburger's got
>
>
>
>
>Republicans: A Prose Poem
>Eliot Weinberger
>
>"They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
>and freedom, and individual liberty."
>President George W. Bush
>
>"I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
>Vice-President Dick Cheney

We are, except by the allies of Eliot Weinberger and Professor Gudding.



On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his 
children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon 
learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood 
harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda. 
That's the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the 
truth, even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"



>

-- 



From alphavil  Sat Aug  7 01:45:21 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 01:45:21 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Weinberger Doesn't Examine Sandy Bergler's Slop
	Espionage, Also, Alas.
In-Reply-To: <a05100307bd3905e82d5c@[204.215.202.31]>
References: <200408051943.i75JhbYD010536@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100307bd3905e82d5c@[204.215.202.31]>
Message-ID: <41146C71.8070709@ix.netcom.com>



ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:

> <The DemKraut Rabid approach to ignorance, as exemplified> by 
> melo-dramatic gesture of throwing away his three quarters a month 
> medals as part of a long term, Ivy League dream/scheme to become chief 
> executive. Pure self-serving vanity. Four months in country, got his 
> fuckin' nose a little bloodied then out. All for his long range 
> political advantage. Then he closed down his subcommittee on 
> Narcotics, Terrorism and International Communications---e.g. money 
> laundering, just when it was gettin' good implicating dozens of 
> Iran-contra figures, again in exchange for intelligence backing for 
> his future candidacy. Screw that. Throwing away medals that today 
> would fetch $25.00 EACH! on E-Bay shows just how much of an advantage 
> the kleptocracy has over all us economic niggers.

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm

'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh Republican Vets Criticize 
Kleptocrats Kerry, McCain, Bob Kerrey et al:
Future Kleptocratic Candidates Put On Notice That War Record "Ain't Shit".:
North Korea And Iran Honor 'Swift Vote Veterans For Truth' With Quiet 
Ceremonies And Military Parades

An Assassinated Press Primary Document
Translated and edited by YASO ADIODI

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm



> . while our in their 
> Billionaire-by-Marriage-to-a-Spouse-who-is-as-well-a-Billionaire-by-Marriage 
> War Hero candidate (by virtue of four months in Nam, hmmm, that's a 
> medal a month [all discarded into quantum space/time where they 
> reappeared on his Senate office wall], and, hey, three Purple Hearts 
> [one, self inflicted by self thrown hand grenade mishap with resultant 
> rice fussilade shrapnel to his absurd butt] and by obscure regulation 
> the cleverest Operator gets an early out!), is to STUPIFY, to wit:
>
>> THE PATRIOT PERSPECTIVE
>>
>> Kerry is AWOL from Iraq...
>>
>> "I will be a commander-in-chief who will never mislead us into
>> war," claims John Kerry, with a none-too-subtle implication
>> that President George W. Bush lied about the threat posed by
>> Saddam Hussein.
>>
>> On that note, we decided to take a look at the historical
>> record. Indeed, we wanted to know precisely what the senator from
>> Massachusetts had been saying all along about the Butcher of
>> Baghdad. Lo and behold, we found that Kerry makes a compelling
>> argument in support of President's Bush's actions to free the
>> Iraqi people -- and the world -- from Saddam's terror.
>>
>> Back in 1991, Kerry voted against the use of force in removing
>> Iraq from neighboring Kuwait (S. J. Res. 2), later explaining that
>> he only "voted against the timing of it. I said very clearly in
>> my statement on the Senate floor that I was committed to getting
>> Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait...and that I was prepared to go to
>> war if it took that...."
>>
>> Regarding Bill Clinton's attacks on Iraqi targets, Kerry said
>> in 1997, "So clearly the allies may not like it...where's the
>> backbone of Russia, where's the backbone of France, where are they
>> in expressing their condemnation of such clearly illegal activity?"
>>
>> A year later, after additional bombing, Kerry said, "We have to
>> be prepared to go the full distance, which is to do everything
>> possible to disrupt [Saddam's] regime and to encourage the
>> forces of democracy. ... [H]e can rebuild both chemical and
>> biological. And every indication is, because of his deception
>> and duplicity in the past, he will seek to do that. So we will
>> not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the
>> world with a bombing attack. ... I believe that in the post-Cold
>> War period this issue of proliferation, particularly in the hands
>> of Saddam Hussein, is critical."
>>
>> Three months after the 9/11 attack on our countrymen by
>> state-supported Jihadi terrorists, Kerry argued, "Saddam is
>> one who is and has acted like a terrorist. ... For instance,
>> Saddam Hussein has used weapons of mass destruction against his
>> own people. ... He is and has acted like a terrorist, and he has
>> engaged in activities that are unacceptable."
>>
>> Reiterating his position on Saddam prior to 9/11, Kerry said, "[I]
>> think we ought to put the heat on Saddam Hussein. I've said that
>> for a number of years. I criticized the Clinton administration
>> for backing off of the inspections...." He then added, "I think
>> we need to put the pressure on, no matter what the evidence is
>> about September 11."
>>
>> Regarding Afghanistan and Iraq, Kerry said, "I think we clearly
>> have to keep the pressure on terrorism globally. This doesn't end
>> with Afghanistan by any imagination. And I think the president
>> has made that clear. I think we have made that clear. Terrorism is
>> a global menace. It's a scourge. And it is absolutely vital that
>> we continue [to combat terrorism], for instance, Saddam Hussein."
>>
>> Regarding diplomatic solutions and the Bush administration's
>> efforts to get the UN to enforce the Security Council's unanimous
>> mandates on Iraqi arms, Kerry said, in May of 2002, "[Saddam is]
>> buying time and playing a game, in my judgment. Do we have to go
>> through that process? The answer is yes. We're precisely doing
>> that. And I think that's what Colin Powell did today."
>>
>> In July of 2002, Kerry told the Democrat Leadership Council,
>> "I agree completely with this Administration's goal of a regime
>> change in Iraq.... Saddam Hussein is a renegade and outlaw who
>> turned his back on the tough conditions of his surrender put in
>> place by the United Nations in 1991."
>>
>> That's "completely," fellow Patriots.
>>
>> A month later in a New York Times op-ed, Kerry asserted, "If Saddam
>> Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's
>> already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement even
>> if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States,
>> a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act."
>>
>> That's even if it's "mostly at the hands of the United States."
>>
>> In September of 2002, a year after 9/11, Kerry said: "It is
>> imperative that we issue an ultimatum to Saddam Hussein, and
>> that would require immediate and full compliance, and if Hussein
>> doesn't comply, the United States must be prepared to go in
>> and...if need be, largely alone remove Saddam Hussein from power.
>> There is also no question that Saddam Hussein continues to pursue
>> weapons of mass destruction, and his success can threaten both our
>> interests in the region and our security at home. ...[Saddam] may
>> even miscalculate and slide these [WMD] off to terrorist groups
>> to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United
>> States. It's the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat."
>>
>> A few days later, he told MSNBC, "The president...always reserves
>> the right to act unilaterally to protect the interests of our
>> country." On 11 October 2002, Kerry voted for the Iraq War
>> Resolution (H.J. Res. 114).
>>
>> That's "unilaterally."
>>
>> In May of 2003, Kerry defended that vote, saying, "I think it
>> was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the
>> President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the
>> fact that we did disarm him." But when Howard Dean turned up the
>> heat with his anti-war message, Kerry began to waffle. Announcing
>> his candidacy, Kerry's support for regime change morphed into,
>> "I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein
>> comply with the resolutions of the United Nations."
>>
>> Notice the head of the pin on which Kerry is now attempting to
>> dance. He's claiming that he only "voted to threaten the use of
>> force." In other words, he's now insisting that he only voted to
>> deliver a hollow threat. Not exactly a profile in courage, eh?
>>
>> As the Demo-primary season approached, Kerry began to hone his
>> newfound opposition to the removal of Saddam: "They rushed to
>> war. They were intent on going to war."
>>
>> When it came time to provide supplemental appropriations for
>> our troops in Iraq, Kerry (who planned to run his campaign on
>> his veteran status) claimed, "I don't think any United States
>> senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to
>> whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That's
>> irresponsible.  I don't think anyone in the Congress is going to
>> not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability
>> to be able to defend themselves. We're not going to cut and run
>> and not do the job."
>>
>> But on 17 October 2003, Kerry abandoned our troops, voting
>> against S. 1689, the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for
>> Iraq and Afghanistan Security and Reconstruction. Thus, he put
>> pure political expedience ahead of his obligation to arm and
>> equip our fighting forces -- specifically those fighting forces
>> currently standing in harm's way.
>>
>> In January of this year, when asked if he was "one of the
>> anti-war candidates," Kerry answered firmly, "I am -- yeah." After
>> announcing his running mate in March, he said of John Edwards,
>> "I'm proud to say that John joined me in voting against that
>> $87 billion...."
>>
>> Got that? He's actually "proud" of having stiffed our troops.
>>
>> Last month, when asked by CBS if his vote for the removal of
>> Saddam was a mistake (which, politically, it clearly was), Kerry
>> fumbled his answer: "What -- what -- what I voted for, you --
>> you -- you see, you're playing here. What -- what I voted for
>> was a -- an authority for the president to go to war as a last
>> resort if Saddam Hussein did not disarm and we needed to go to
>> war." When pressed for a direct answer to the question, Kerry
>> responded curtly, "I think I answered your question."
>>
>> When asked why he "voted for the war, but didn't vote for
>> the money to finance the war," Kerry responded, "That's not a
>> flip-flop. That's not a flip-flop."
>>
>> And this week, Kerry claims, "I believe this administration is
>> actually encouraging the recruitment of terrorists. The policies
>> of this administration, I believe and others believe very deeply,
>> have resulted in an increase of animosity and anger focused on
>> the United States of America." (Here we suppose "others" is in
>> reference to the same yet-to-be-identified foreign leaders who
>> Kerry claims support his candidacy.)
>>
>> The reality is, of course, that it's our very existence, and not
>> our actions, that the Jihadis really object to. Kerry's failure
>> to acknowledge this fact is indicative of just how deeply he has
>> delved into the fevered swamp.
>>
>> Last week, greeting Demo-conventioneers with a limp Clintonesque
>> salute, Kerry intoned that he was "reporting for duty." To which
>> we say, it's about time -- because he has been AWOL from Iraq
>> since he voted to invade.
>
>
> Commentator:  Mark Alexander
>
> Forwarded by:  Richard Dillon
> ELEMENOPE Productions
>
> I'll take Alexander's Republican Federalism over Eliot Weinberger's 
> RadLib Legerdemain from here to eternity.
>
> For those who have read this far, here is my astrological prediction 
> on the Fight: On the day of the election, November 2, 2004, the Great 
> Benefic, Jupiter, will be aspecting both candidates charts with utmost 
> drama.  W will see a Jupiter return activating the roots of his life.  
> He will feel grounded and good.  No anxiety.  The consummate moxie the 
> RadLibs so hate will be burning brightly. Kerry, on the other hand, 
> will have reached the culmination of his entire life campaign begun 
> when he entered the Navy during the Vietnam War.  In my view, and in 
> the view of practioners of this craft that I respect, Kerry will be 
> finally seen for what he is:  A bamboozler.  For, that same Jupiter, 
> transiting his MidHeaven, the acme of his public reknown, is, as well, 
> connected to his Neptune, planet of duplicity and illusion and fraud 
> and film. (FILM!)  He and his partners, the Hollywood smiling Shyster 
> and Mop Headed Mother Ketchup, will have been seen for what they are.  
> Their absurd jig will be up.  America will move on, having escaped 
> their grasping frenzy as well as the ever mounting shadow of G. 
> Goldfinger Soros.
>
> If I am wrong on that day, I will admit it here, as well as my 
> profound regret and fear for what the country will become in their 
> seditious hands.  But, hey, Professor Gudding will be crowing along 
> with Weinberger ( - whose poem, _Atlantis_, succeeded.  Frankly, Eliot 
> should read his Zell Miller before going any further with this sort of 
> rant.  But, hey, I only used to run into Paz on Harvard St., Eliot, to 
> his undying credit, was his translator.).
>
> R.D.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:02:32 -0800
>> From: "Chris Stroffolino " <cstroffo at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
>>     <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> Message-ID: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338 at pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Ah, what an "ear" that fella whineburger's got
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Republicans: A Prose Poem
>> Eliot Weinberger
>>
>> "They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
>> and freedom, and individual liberty."
>> President George W. Bush
>>
>> "I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
>> Vice-President Dick Cheney
>
>
> We are, except by the allies of Eliot Weinberger and Professor Gudding.
>
>
>
> On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his 
> children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon 
> learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood 
> harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda. That's 
> the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the truth, 
> even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>
>
>
>>
>



From elemenope  Fri Aug  6 21:23:55 2004
From: elemenope (ELEMENOPE Productions)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 09:23:55 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poker Game: re:  Re:. (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
In-Reply-To: <200408070613.i776DnYD017190@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200408070613.i776DnYD017190@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100300bd39d9880030@[204.215.201.85]>

Choose your poison.  I ride with W.

R.E.D

P.S.

How we got that colour, I thought we were the Blues, or the Greys (& 
I don't mean Zeta Reticulum brand) - - but the 
Reds?????????????????????????????????

Reminds me of what Lincoln (that Republican) observed viz politics.

----

As to Gancie/Parcelli approach:

>'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
>Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh


No, my understanding is that Gunner Clark fought the good fight in 
Nam - - He and we (by extension those Lone Star Rangers who stand 
with him at this pivot point) were absolutely right to oppose Marxian 
totalitarianism in Vietnam, just as we oppose it in its present 
RadLib academical form today.  The Swift Boat Vets do NOT and never 
will side with General Giap and Ho Chi Minh.  This is an outrageous 
falsehood.

There is no way any commentator could make this claim because as of 
this moment (8/7/04) the Swift Boat book hasn't hit the booksellers. 
And, also, I am in posssession of excusive interviews with Mr. Clark, 
Kerry's gunner on the Swift Boat, that clearly demonstrate absolute 
loyalty to the Yankee mission in Nam.  (I employ "Yankee" proudly.  I 
do not accept the slanderous reversal of meanings the Militant Left 
Poets impose upon American street English.  Nor their rhetorical 
questions which demand of my side that we prove negatives to assuage 
their supposed virtue regarding the world's suffering (re: drug 
trafficing).  Balderdash, Castro is the biggest drug runner in the 
world and he's got the mega billions to prove it.  I don't know what 
G/C roll their weed with, but it sure ain't the Federalist Papers.)

Zut, it is typical of the Rads in their multiple forms that they will 
seize on any move towards virtue in order to ally themselves with the 
cause of Liberty.

Just as they did when they waved their Marxian flags on the streets 
of Baghdad when the American Calvary and Marines liberated Iraq.

<sigh>

R.D.









>
>
>  >
>>Republicans: A Prose Poem
>>Eliot Weinberger
>>
>>"They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
>>and freedom, and individual liberty."
>>President George W. Bush
>>
>>"I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
>>Vice-President Dick Cheney
>
>We are, except by the allies of Eliot Weinberger and Professor Gudding.
>
>
>
>On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his
>children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon
>learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood
>harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda.
>That's the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the
>truth, even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>
>
>
>ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:
>
>>  <The DemKraut Rabid approach to ignorance, as exemplified> by
>>  melo-dramatic gesture of throwing away his three quarters a month
>>  medals as part of a long term, Ivy League dream/scheme to become chief
>>  executive. Pure self-serving vanity. Four months in country, got his
>>  fuckin' nose a little bloodied then out. All for his long range
>>  political advantage. Then he closed down his subcommittee on
>>  Narcotics, Terrorism and International Communications---e.g. money
>>  laundering, just when it was gettin' good implicating dozens of
>>  Iran-contra figures, again in exchange for intelligence backing for
>>  his future candidacy. Screw that. Throwing away medals that today
>>  would fetch $25.00 EACH! on E-Bay shows just how much of an advantage
>>  the kleptocracy has over all us economic niggers.
>
>http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm
>
>'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
>Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh Republican Vets Criticize
>Kleptocrats Kerry, McCain, Bob Kerrey et al:
>Future Kleptocratic Candidates Put On Notice That War Record "Ain't Shit".:
>North Korea And Iran Honor 'Swift Vote Veterans For Truth' With Quiet
>Ceremonies And Military Parades
>
>An Assassinated Press Primary Document
>Translated and edited by YASO ADIODI
>
>http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm
>
>  >
>>
>>  On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his
>>  children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon
>>  learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood
>>  harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda. That's
>>  the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the truth,
>>  even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10
>*****************************************


-- 



From alphavil  Sat Aug  7 10:11:27 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 10:11:27 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poker Game: re:  Re:. (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bd39d9880030@[204.215.201.85]>
References: <200408070613.i776DnYD017190@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100300bd39d9880030@[204.215.201.85]>
Message-ID: <4114E30F.8050406@ix.netcom.com>

Yes. W. do ride you, hard.  The only beauty is you don't have to choose 
and further make yourself look like a fool---either way. It's a fait 
accompli.

As for Adiodi, as a number of you already know he has been a houseguest 
of mine for nearly two years now. While he tends to irascibility he does 
possess some good qualities. He is a great fan of Bill O'Reilly and 
Charles Manson though not being fully enculturated he tends to confuse 
the two or at least conflate their ideas. He helped lead a peaceful 
revolution in his own country by distributing 300,000 videotapes of  
members of the 'Party of Lincoln' raping farm animals just as Lincoln 
once had. The tapes were funded by the National Endowment for Democracy, 
the United States Information Agency in conjunction with the Defense 
Intelligence Agency's Division of Gang Bangs For Hearts and Minds as 
part off Operation Vulva Revolution. The entire population gave into 
their communist induced horniness and butchered every animal in the 
country with their newly forged democratic meat swords. From your recent 
responses, I discern a number of you will be moved by this story and 
that is the reason I share Yaso's colorful biography with you. CP


ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:

> Choose your poison.  I ride with W.
>
> R.E.D
>
> P.S.
>
> How we got that colour, I thought we were the Blues, or the Greys (& I 
> don't mean Zeta Reticulum brand) - - but the 
> Reds?????????????????????????????????
>
> Reminds me of what Lincoln (that Republican) observed viz politics.
>
> ----
>
> As to Gancie/Parcelli approach:
>
>> 'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
>> Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh
>
>
>
> No, my understanding is that Gunner Clark fought the good fight in Nam 
> - - He and we (by extension those Lone Star Rangers who stand with him 
> at this pivot point) were absolutely right to oppose Marxian 
> totalitarianism in Vietnam, just as we oppose it in its present RadLib 
> academical form today.  The Swift Boat Vets do NOT and never will side 
> with General Giap and Ho Chi Minh.  This is an outrageous falsehood.
>
> There is no way any commentator could make this claim because as of 
> this moment (8/7/04) the Swift Boat book hasn't hit the booksellers. 
> And, also, I am in posssession of excusive interviews with Mr. Clark, 
> Kerry's gunner on the Swift Boat, that clearly demonstrate absolute 
> loyalty to the Yankee mission in Nam.  (I employ "Yankee" proudly.  I 
> do not accept the slanderous reversal of meanings the Militant Left 
> Poets impose upon American street English.  Nor their rhetorical 
> questions which demand of my side that we prove negatives to assuage 
> their supposed virtue regarding the world's suffering (re: drug 
> trafficing).  Balderdash, Castro is the biggest drug runner in the 
> world and he's got the mega billions to prove it.  I don't know what 
> G/C roll their weed with, but it sure ain't the Federalist Papers.)
>
> Zut, it is typical of the Rads in their multiple forms that they will 
> seize on any move towards virtue in order to ally themselves with the 
> cause of Liberty.
>
> Just as they did when they waved their Marxian flags on the streets of 
> Baghdad when the American Calvary and Marines liberated Iraq.
>
> <sigh>
>
> R.D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>  >
>>
>>> Republicans: A Prose Poem
>>> Eliot Weinberger
>>>
>>> "They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
>>> and freedom, and individual liberty."
>>> President George W. Bush
>>>
>>> "I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
>>> Vice-President Dick Cheney
>>
>>
>> We are, except by the allies of Eliot Weinberger and Professor Gudding.
>>
>>
>>
>> On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his
>> children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon
>> learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood
>> harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda.
>> That's the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the
>> truth, even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>>
>>
>>
>> ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:
>>
>>>  <The DemKraut Rabid approach to ignorance, as exemplified> by
>>>  melo-dramatic gesture of throwing away his three quarters a month
>>>  medals as part of a long term, Ivy League dream/scheme to become chief
>>>  executive. Pure self-serving vanity. Four months in country, got his
>>>  fuckin' nose a little bloodied then out. All for his long range
>>>  political advantage. Then he closed down his subcommittee on
>>>  Narcotics, Terrorism and International Communications---e.g. money
>>>  laundering, just when it was gettin' good implicating dozens of
>>>  Iran-contra figures, again in exchange for intelligence backing for
>>>  his future candidacy. Screw that. Throwing away medals that today
>>>  would fetch $25.00 EACH! on E-Bay shows just how much of an advantage
>>>  the kleptocracy has over all us economic niggers.
>>
>>
>> http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm
>>
>> 'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
>> Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh Republican Vets Criticize
>> Kleptocrats Kerry, McCain, Bob Kerrey et al:
>> Future Kleptocratic Candidates Put On Notice That War Record "Ain't 
>> Shit".:
>> North Korea And Iran Honor 'Swift Vote Veterans For Truth' With Quiet
>> Ceremonies And Military Parades
>>
>> An Assassinated Press Primary Document
>> Translated and edited by YASO ADIODI
>>
>> http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm
>>
>>  >
>>
>>>
>>>  On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his
>>>  children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon
>>>  learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood
>>>  harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda. That's
>>>  the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the truth,
>>>  even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10
>> *****************************************
>
>
>



From clitophon  Sat Aug  7 15:14:56 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 12:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <005b01c470d3$3a778be0$824e7ad5@FrodoBaggins>
Message-ID: <20040807191456.422.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>

interestingly I met a German girl today who spoke
English with a perfect Manchester accent since she had
been married to a Mancunian for some time although she
said the marriage had finished. She was glad to leave
Germany because she felt the people to be impolite and
German society to be over-formalised and bound up with
rules. She said that people needed qualifications for
ordinary jobs and that this was not the case in the
UK.  Yes, this is true, in the UK qualifications are
very often a problem in employment and one has to
conceal them to get on.  The reverse is true in
Germany which is why I wanted to live here.  I
appreciate her thoughts and think there is substance
in them.  The Germans I've met just can't understand
my sense of humour and can't follow the often
scatalogical thought flow that I pursue.  They often
seem to think in a very rigid way.  Of course not all
Germans are like this, certainly their physicists
(Planck, Einstein etc) were very creative minds and
undoubtedly eccentric.  (recent evidence suggests that
Einstein had Ashperger's syndrome, a mind form of
autism.  Who knows what kind of mind thinks up a
fundamental shift in our way of looking at the
Universe.  Of course all kinds of officals need to
think this is an illness with a positive by-product
not someone who is just pleasantly different.  I've no
doubt that Einstein could exhibit great kindness
although he was a terrible womaniser, a thing I hardly
find fault in since to do so would be like the pot
calling the kettle black.) 
Today, I went to the Br?han Museum, a Museum of early
20th century German art, porcelain and furniture,
simply amazing.  The Sammlung Berggruen next door, is
mainly concerned with works by Picasso and Klee and
the Film Museum in Potzdamer Platz, is pretty good but
not as good as the Museum of the Moving Image in
London (now defunct). The Germans thought of cinema as
a science in the early years and film-makers would
have dressed like doctors or surgeons.  It was only in
Hollywood that cinema was regarded from the beginning
as an entertainment industry.  Further, Murnau et al
regarded their work as the scientific recording or
reality, the thought that objective reality as
recorded via photography - and the subsequent creation
of the image - can be bent and twisted, interpreted
and mis-interpreted, of course, wouldn?t have occured
to them.  You might remember the Warren Beatty film,
The Parallex View.  The difference between what you
see and what you get, a problem for automatic cameras
but not for single lense reflex cameras which
eliminate this effect.  In robustly ideological terms,
the interpretation of events offered to the public
might be different from what actually happened except
if you argue in a Post-Modern direction, that
?truth?is only a product of the observer - this brings
in relativity theory - and therefore not truth at all
but opinion even when backed up by the hardest
evidence (because even the hardest evidence can be
re-viewed in the light of new philosophical\scientific
investigations).
PM


		
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From elemenope  Sat Aug  7 05:53:10 2004
From: elemenope (ELEMENOPE Productions)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:53:10 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Erratum: 1. Poker Game: re: Re:. (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
 (ELEMENOPE Productions)
In-Reply-To: <200408071600.i77G03YD018458@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200408071600.i77G03YD018458@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100302bd3a4fa58a5f@[204.215.201.81]>

Among the errors I as a "Republican Home Schooler" have made in this 
lifetime is to misspell, "Cavalry."

>At 05:21 PM +0800 8/7/04, ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:
>>Just as they did when they waved their Marxian flags on the streets
>>of Baghdad when the American Calvary and Marines liberated Iraq.

Another error: Kerry's Swift Boat gunner was Steve Gardner. (I hope I 
have his last name spelled correctly.)  So, the following paragraph 
should read:

>No, my understanding is that Gunner Gardner fought the good fight in
>Nam - - He and we (by extension those Lone Star Rangers who stand
>with him at this pivot point) were absolutely right to oppose Marxian
>totalitarianism in Vietnam, just as we oppose it in its present
>RadLib academical form today.  The Swift Boat Vets do NOT and never
>will side with General Giap and Ho Chi Minh.  This is an outrageous
falsehood.

Viz:

>As for Adiodi, as a number of you already know he has been a houseguest
>of mine for nearly two years now. While he tends to irascibility he does
>possess some good qualities. He is a great fan of Bill O'Reilly and
>Charles Manson though not being fully enculturated he tends to confuse
>			- etc. -
>part off Operation Vulva Revolution. The entire population gave into
>their communist induced horniness and butchered every animal in the
>                         - etc. -


Under the spell of the authority invested in me by the Inventor of 
the UptKayCuptKay technique, I adjudge the foregoing Adiodi farrago 
as a failed attempt to attain, "The Third Mind."  It may not even 
make the Dornian category of, "Mixed Fodder." since it is 
indigestable.  But, hey, whatever, we live in a dark time.

RED






-- 



From barry.spacks  Sun Aug  8 12:27:46 2004
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 09:27:46 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: dangerous spittle
In-Reply-To: <200408081600.i78G03YC021365@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040808092332.00b34ba8@incoming.verizon.net>

At 12:00 PM 8/8/2004 -0400, RED wrote:
             we live in a dark time.

to muzzle a rabid dog one needs
a muzzle, a net...and a fleet-footed hero


-------------- next part --------------
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From alphavil  Sun Aug  8 12:26:28 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 12:26:28 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Erratum: 1. Poker Game: re: Re:.
	(R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) (ELEMENOPE Productions)
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bd3a4fa58a5f@[204.215.201.81]>
References: <200408071600.i77G03YD018458@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100302bd3a4fa58a5f@[204.215.201.81]>
Message-ID: <41165434.3040804@ix.netcom.com>

<But, hey, whatever, we live in a dark time.>

Back at the mirror, eh.

ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:

> Among the errors I as a "Republican Home Schooler" have made in this 
> lifetime is to misspell, "Cavalry."
>
>> At 05:21 PM +0800 8/7/04, ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:
>>
>>> Just as they did when they waved their Marxian flags on the streets
>>> of Baghdad when the American Calvary and Marines liberated Iraq.
>>
>
> Another error: Kerry's Swift Boat gunner was Steve Gardner. (I hope I 
> have his last name spelled correctly.)  So, the following paragraph 
> should read:
>
>> No, my understanding is that Gunner Gardner fought the good fight in
>> Nam - - He and we (by extension those Lone Star Rangers who stand
>> with him at this pivot point) were absolutely right to oppose Marxian
>> totalitarianism in Vietnam, just as we oppose it in its present
>> RadLib academical form today.  The Swift Boat Vets do NOT and never
>> will side with General Giap and Ho Chi Minh.  This is an outrageous
>
> falsehood.
>
> Viz:
>
>> As for Adiodi, as a number of you already know he has been a houseguest
>> of mine for nearly two years now. While he tends to irascibility he does
>> possess some good qualities. He is a great fan of Bill O'Reilly and
>> Charles Manson though not being fully enculturated he tends to confuse
>>             - etc. -
>> part off Operation Vulva Revolution. The entire population gave into
>> their communist induced horniness and butchered every animal in the
>>                         - etc. -
>
>
>
> Under the spell of the authority invested in me by the Inventor of the 
> UptKayCuptKay technique, I adjudge the foregoing Adiodi farrago as a 
> failed attempt to attain, "The Third Mind."  It may not even make the 
> Dornian category of, "Mixed Fodder." since it is indigestable.  But, 
> hey, whatever, we live in a dark time.
>
> RED
>
>
>
>
>
>



From alphavil  Sun Aug  8 12:28:52 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 12:28:52 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: dangerous spittle
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040808092332.00b34ba8@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040808092332.00b34ba8@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <411654C4.8070909@ix.netcom.com>

to muzzle a rabid dog one needs
a muzzle, a net...and a fleet-footed hero.
we tried, and he was Greek!
but, alas, it was Spiro

Barry Spacks wrote:

> At 12:00 PM 8/8/2004 -0400, RED wrote:
>             we live in a dark time.
>
> to muzzle a rabid dog one needs
> a muzzle, a net...and a fleet-footed hero


>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>  
>



From clitophon  Sun Aug  8 14:07:31 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:07:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz
In-Reply-To: <411654C4.8070909@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040808180731.40591.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm in Berlin.  Right now I'm at Potsdamer Platz, once
Europe?s Time Square.  For a long time it declined
until the Wende in 1989.  Since then it has been
rebuilt with some works of architectural genius.  At
my window now are some remarkable skyscrapers and all
the glass that any errant bomber could want.  There
are lots of cinemas here and a film museum which gives
us a clue as to the nature of this place.  It is the
hub of cosmopolitan, of internationalism and
international communication in Europe.

I think Nietzsche is one of the people who might have
prevented the Nazi Movement.   Nazism grew out of
centuries of Christian sponsored anti-semitism in
Europe.  It especially eminated from the Catholic
church, an institution that hated Nietzsche for his
anti-christian, yet positive and progressive theories.
 I think Nietzsche has been used as a scapegoat.  The
various complex messages of his work go far beyond
Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
from across the political spectrum.  He has a
universalism that was always going to be displaced in
some way and an obvious propensity to be
mis-understood as every great thinker is.  By setting
up N as a scapegoat, most of the justified anger could
be directed his way and not against the set up of
religious charlatans and mystifiers.

Today I went to Babelsburg, the German Hollywood until
the destruction of Berlin in 1945.  This theme park is
really for kiddies and the trips on a U Boat and the
set piece from Mad Max are fun to be involved in, if
not just for the mass enjoyment, clapping and
laughable stunts.  I talked to the artist there about
exhibiting in Berlin, she seemed to think I'd have a
chance.  Basicallly she demonstrates to people how art
functions in regard to film.  As well as this there
are sections on film & architecture, a quite
straightforward projection from the architecture of
houses and interiors and most of the stuff I saw at
M?s house last summer.  The Caligari facade is great
fun and the facade from The Pianist is good,
especially when you knock against it with a ringing
hollowness.  I thought if I pushed hard enough the
facade would fall over just like in the Buster Keaton
films.
PM


		
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From mandolin  Sun Aug  8 15:44:16 2004
From: mandolin (Michael Snider)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:44:16 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <20040807191456.422.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040807191456.422.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <555691CC-E973-11D8-9A45-000393C29586@mac.com>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 3:14 PM, Paul Murphy wrote:

> if you argue in a Post-Modern direction, that
> ?truth?is only a product of the observer - this brings
> in relativity theory - and therefore not truth at all
> but opinion even when backed up by the hardest
> evidence (because even the hardest evidence can be
> re-viewed in the light of new philosophical\scientific
> investigations).

Paul, I'm enjoying your  speculations and travel posts, but you should 
be aware  that "'truth' is only a product of the observer" is a pretty 
bizarre misreading of modern physics. Relativity theory shows how 
observers in different inertial frames can come to identical 
conclusions about their movements relative to each other and to any 
arbitrary inertial system. Even the often-cited Heisenberg Uncertainty 
Principle (look here:  
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/208/jan27/hup.html ) merely means that 
certain measurements interfere with one another: for instance, we can 
make arbitrarily precise measurements of the location of an object at 
quantum scales, but in doing so we interfere with its momentum, and 
vice versa. As the web page notes, this "notion has interesting 
consequences for nuclear fusion in stars," but has essentially zero 
effect on, say, evolutionary theory, or why your car works or doesn't, 
or whether you should brush your teeth before a date. Similarly, 
Godel's Incompleteness Theorem doesn't say that we can't prove things 
to be true or false in mathematics, only that, in any given formal 
system powerful enough to be interesting, there will be true statements 
which cannot be proven to be true  and false statements which cannot be 
proven to be false using the tools available in that system.

Daniel Dennett, in his essay on "Postmodernism and Truth" (look here: 
http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=13 ) quotes E. 
O. Wilson from the March 1998 Atlantic Monthly:  "Scientists, held 
responsible for what they say, have not found postmodernism useful." 
  




From clitophon  Sun Aug  8 16:56:42 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 13:56:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <555691CC-E973-11D8-9A45-000393C29586@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040808205642.11039.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com>

my mail wasn?t meant to be very philosophically
precise or precise in terms of physics either.  I?m
sure there are immense adjustments and delicate
sidelit observations on my rather elephantine
statements.  I?m just engaged in a little travel
writing.  Thanks anyway for your mail.  I?ll wade
through those sites in due time.
--- Michael Snider <mandolin at mac.com> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 7, 2004, at 3:14 PM, Paul Murphy wrote:
> 
> > if you argue in a Post-Modern direction, that
> > ?truth?is only a product of the observer - this
> brings
> > in relativity theory - and therefore not truth at
> all
> > but opinion even when backed up by the hardest
> > evidence (because even the hardest evidence can be
> > re-viewed in the light of new
> philosophical\scientific
> > investigations).
> 
> Paul, I'm enjoying your  speculations and travel
> posts, but you should 
> be aware  that "'truth' is only a product of the
> observer" is a pretty 
> bizarre misreading of modern physics. Relativity
> theory shows how 
> observers in different inertial frames can come to
> identical 
> conclusions about their movements relative to each
> other and to any 
> arbitrary inertial system. Even the often-cited
> Heisenberg Uncertainty 
> Principle (look here:  
> http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/208/jan27/hup.html
> ) merely means that 
> certain measurements interfere with one another: for
> instance, we can 
> make arbitrarily precise measurements of the
> location of an object at 
> quantum scales, but in doing so we interfere with
> its momentum, and 
> vice versa. As the web page notes, this "notion has
> interesting 
> consequences for nuclear fusion in stars," but has
> essentially zero 
> effect on, say, evolutionary theory, or why your car
> works or doesn't, 
> or whether you should brush your teeth before a
> date. Similarly, 
> Godel's Incompleteness Theorem doesn't say that we
> can't prove things 
> to be true or false in mathematics, only that, in
> any given formal 
> system powerful enough to be interesting, there will
> be true statements 
> which cannot be proven to be true  and false
> statements which cannot be 
> proven to be false using the tools available in that
> system.
> 
> Daniel Dennett, in his essay on "Postmodernism and
> Truth" (look here: 
>
http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=13
> ) quotes E. 
> O. Wilson from the March 1998 Atlantic Monthly: 
> "Scientists, held 
> responsible for what they say, have not found
> postmodernism useful." 
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From teapeasea  Sun Aug  8 20:45:04 2004
From: teapeasea (Timothy Cole)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:45:04 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz
In-Reply-To: <20040808180731.40591.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200408090043.i790hfYB022744@wiz.cath.vt.edu>

Paul -
I just want to say I flat out envy you. 

I lived in Berlin (West) during the '70's and visited again in the '80's,
but have not been able to make it back since the "Wende". Some day.

Potsdamer Platz in those days was non-existent since the Wall ran virtually
right through it. It was one of the most heart-breaking places to behold at
that time, especially since it was then really unthinkable that the Wall
would come crashing down the way it did, when it did. I suppose
metaphorically it was appropriate that the whole agony of Germany in the
20th century should be so visible at the place that had once been the hub of
the capital. 

I'm not sure what I'd make of the site's post-reunification remake, but at
least the city has begun to come out of the time-warp in which it was stuck
for 40 years. 

I also think you are pretty much on the money about Nietzsche. Given a good
understanding of his work and a good understanding of the ideology and
social dynamics of National Socialism, it is absurd to hold him up as a
progenitor of the movement. Just, I might add, as it is absurd to hold Marx
up as a progenitor of Stalin - if, that is, one takes the trouble to dig
down to a deeper understanding of both.

Happy trails,

Tim Cole



-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Murphy
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:08 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz

I'm in Berlin.  Right now I'm at Potsdamer Platz, once
Europe4s Time Square.  For a long time it declined
until the Wende in 1989.  Since then it has been
rebuilt with some works of architectural genius.  At
my window now are some remarkable skyscrapers and all
the glass that any errant bomber could want.  There
are lots of cinemas here and a film museum which gives
us a clue as to the nature of this place.  It is the
hub of cosmopolitan, of internationalism and
international communication in Europe.

I think Nietzsche is one of the people who might have
prevented the Nazi Movement.   Nazism grew out of
centuries of Christian sponsored anti-semitism in
Europe.  It especially eminated from the Catholic
church, an institution that hated Nietzsche for his
anti-christian, yet positive and progressive theories.
 I think Nietzsche has been used as a scapegoat.  The
various complex messages of his work go far beyond
Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
from across the political spectrum.  He has a
universalism that was always going to be displaced in
some way and an obvious propensity to be
mis-understood as every great thinker is.  By setting
up N as a scapegoat, most of the justified anger could
be directed his way and not against the set up of
religious charlatans and mystifiers.

Today I went to Babelsburg, the German Hollywood until
the destruction of Berlin in 1945.  This theme park is
really for kiddies and the trips on a U Boat and the
set piece from Mad Max are fun to be involved in, if
not just for the mass enjoyment, clapping and
laughable stunts.  I talked to the artist there about
exhibiting in Berlin, she seemed to think I'd have a
chance.  Basicallly she demonstrates to people how art
functions in regard to film.  As well as this there
are sections on film & architecture, a quite
straightforward projection from the architecture of
houses and interiors and most of the stuff I saw at
M4s house last summer.  The Caligari facade is great
fun and the facade from The Pianist is good,
especially when you knock against it with a ringing
hollowness.  I thought if I pushed hard enough the
facade would fall over just like in the Buster Keaton
films.
PM


		
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From marcus  Mon Aug  9 07:41:16 2004
From: marcus (Marcus Bales)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 07:41:16 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <20040807191456.422.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <005b01c470d3$3a778be0$824e7ad5@FrodoBaggins>
Message-ID: <41172A9C.78.1A5338@localhost>

On 7 Aug 2004 at 12:14, Paul Murphy wrote:
> ... recent evidence suggests that
> Einstein had Ashperger's syndrome, a mind form of
> autism....<

"Asperger's Syndrome" (http://www.autism.org/asperger.html) is 
spelled without the "h"; and "mild" is spelled without the "n".

Marcus







From clitophon  Mon Aug  9 09:38:47 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:38:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <41172A9C.78.1A5338@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040809133847.80750.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>

so sufferers from asperger?s syndrom are higher
functioning people who lack the correct genes to enter
the ranks of the ruling classes and are thereby
marginalised into the professions where their ?ddity?
is easily neutralised and made safe.  Forgive the few
spelling mistakes, I have little time to make these
reports in and internet is expensive too.
Is mind a parapraxes?  
--- Marcus Bales <marcus at designerglass.com> wrote:

> On 7 Aug 2004 at 12:14, Paul Murphy wrote:
> > ... recent evidence suggests that
> > Einstein had Ashperger's syndrome, a mind form of
> > autism....<
> 
> "Asperger's Syndrome"
> (http://www.autism.org/asperger.html) is 
> spelled without the "h"; and "mild" is spelled
> without the "n".
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
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From halvard  Mon Aug  9 09:46:32 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:46:32 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)
Message-ID: <f160a121040809064610eafeab@mail.gmail.com>

The Evening of the Mind

Now comes the evening of the mind.
Here are the fireflies twitching in the blood;
Here is the shadow moving down the page
Where you sit reading by the garden wall.
Now the dwarf peach trees, nailed to their trellises,
Shudder and droop. Your know their voices now,
Faintly the martyred peaches crying out
Your name, the name nobody knows but you.
It is the aura and the coming on.
It is the thing descending, circling, here.
And now it puts a claw out and you take it.
Thankfully in your lap you take it, so.

You said you would not go away again,
You did not want to go away -- and yet,
It is as if you stood out on the dock
Watching a little boat drift out
Beyond the sawgrass shallows, the dead fish ...
And you were in it, skimming past old snags,
Beyond, beyond, under a brazen sky
As soundless as a gong before it's struck --
Suspended how? -- and now they strike it, now
The ether dream of five-years-old repeats, repeats,
And you must wake again to your own blood
And empty spaces in the throat.

            Donald Justice,
            fr. *Night Light*, University Press of New England, 1965


--
Hal

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard

-- 
Hal                

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard



From DICK  Mon Aug  9 09:51:27 2004
From: DICK (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 04 09:51:27 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] nothing in particular
Message-ID: <200408091351.i79DplmS006336@d01av03.pok.ibm.com>

>>Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
>>ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
>>he.  N influenced so many art movements and people

Another example of the recent change in the rules of
syntax, viz., that the conjunction "and" is followed by
the nominative of the pronoun, regardless of any other
context.

Richard



From clitophon  Mon Aug  9 09:59:04 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:59:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 4
In-Reply-To: <20040809133847.80750.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040809135904.98921.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com>

 Dear Heike,
> Freud is rather dated now but he gives us
indications
> about the germination of his philosophy of
psychoanalysis and any
> putative 'science of the mind'.  Because the mind
(or
> consciousness) is not something we can easily lay
our
> hands on, understanding it is much harder than
> understanding the physiology of the body.  It could
be
> said that neurosis is very like a sprained ankle or
> psychosis is like having no legs, but really
so-called
> 'mental illness' does not follow the same dialectic
of
> symptom - diagnosis - cure as a physical illness
does.
>  Very simply because psychosis is incurable and
often
> untreatable.  Neurosis is something much less
serious
> and often can be cleared up without any form of
> medicine.  (an example of neurosis is obsessive
> compulsive disorder or OCD.  do you know it?)  The
> Oedipus Complex is very much concerned with mans'
> mental genesis and I fear that you would be best to
> turn to Sophocles, Freud and Lacan for more
> information.  In these original texts you will find
> more knowledge but also some belief and opinion on
the
> matter.  Further reading might be 'Totem and Taboo'
by
> Sigmund Freud for more information on kinship
systems
> but also read about Margaret Mead.  Try to select
> books from my reading lists to uncover more.  Have
you
> read TS Eliot?
> best wishes,
> Paul Murphy



	
		
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From clitophon  Mon Aug  9 10:02:49 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:02:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] nothing in particular
In-Reply-To: <200408091351.i79DplmS006336@d01av03.pok.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <20040809140249.90879.qmail@web40407.mail.yahoo.com>

I think this syntactical shift is influenced by the
way the Germans speak English.  I would normally say -
N influenced so many art movements, people

I?ve also noticed that the Germans seem to like a
different period Picasso, choosing the mid-late
Picasso rather than the early period of the Blue or
Pink periods.  The early Picasso is more on view in
Paris or Barcelona.  Of course, generally speaking,
P?s early work is less intellectually complex and more
emotive.
 
--- DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com wrote:

> >>Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
> >>ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N
> and
> >>he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
> 
> Another example of the recent change in the rules of
> syntax, viz., that the conjunction "and" is followed
> by
> the nominative of the pronoun, regardless of any
> other
> context.
> 
> Richard
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
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From rwilsnac  Mon Aug  9 10:28:52 2004
From: rwilsnac (Richard Wilsnack)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 09:28:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)
In-Reply-To: <f160a121040809064610eafeab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040809092304.0104def0@medicine.nodak.edu>

Sorry to indulge in what some might view as sentimentality, but this news 
adds another dose of dreariness to a cold, rainy day. When I was newly 
middle-aged, I encountered by luck the best poem I have yet read about 
middle-aged middle-class USAnian men (about whom there are remarkably few 
good poems). In memoriam:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Men at forty
Learn to close softly
The doors to rooms they will not be
Coming back to.

At rest on a stair landing,
They feel it
Moving beneath them now like the deck of a ship,
Though the swell is gentle.

And deep in mirrors
They rediscover
The face of the boy as he practices tying
His father's tie there in secret

And the face of that father,
Still warm with the mystery of lather.
They are more fathers than sons themselves now.
Something is filling them, something

That is like the twilight sound
Of the crickets, immense,
Filling the woods at the foot of the slope
Behind their mortgaged houses

         Donald Justice

-------------------------------------

Richard W. Wilsnack
rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu




From gmguddi  Mon Aug  9 11:30:26 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:30:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Announcing COMBO 13 and our first COMBO BOOK - by K.
 Silem Mohammad
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040809102824.03058728@mail.ilstu.edu>

[Mike Magee asked me to forward this to lists. If he's already done so, 
please forgive the overlap. I've been away].

***********************
Hello everyone!

I have two very gratifying announcements to make: at long last I've published
COMBO 13 as well as our first COMBO BOOK, K. Silem Mohammad's  A THOUSAND
DEVILS.

COMBO 13 features poems by

Amy King, David Hadbawnik, Rodney Koeneke, Catherine Meng, Ray DiPalma, Thom
Donovan, Kyle Schlesinger, Katie Degentesh, Chris Canavale, Brandon Downing,
Kristen Gallagher, Stephanie Young and Rodrigo Toscano

as well as Phil Metres's interview with Jerome and Diane Rothenberg

and a selection from our second COMBO BOOK (forthcoming in the Fall)
ALSO WITH MY THROAT I SHALL SWALLOW TEN THOUSAND SWORDS: ARAKI YASUSADA'S
LETTERS IN ENGLISH, ed. Kent Johnson and Javier Alvarez.

COMBO is 60 pages, saddle-stiched w/ glossy cardstock cover w/ original
artwork.

4-issue subscriptions to COMBO are $12.00

A Lifetime subscription (which includes all available back issues) is $50.00

And our new "Full Lifetime Subscription" -- $100.00 -- entitles you to all past
and future issues of the magazine and all past and future Combo Books.  This is
a phenomenal deal!

As for our first book, it's a doozy!

K. Silem Mohammad's A THOUSAND DEVILS is a beautiful trade paperback of 104
pages with a kick ass cover featuring swarming ants and many many fantastic
poems.  The purchase price is $12.00.  Here are the words of two wonderful
poets on Mohammad's book:

*******************
Imagine Olivier portraying Yosemite Sam as a Bedouin, "May a thousand devils
take 'em!", which I'm told is a curse as PG Obsolete as Pantagruel yelling
"Sacre Bleu!"  However, be warned as each of Mr Mohammad's poems provides a
new form of hotfoot for the info-damned at the nostalgia-plex; read for
example "The New South."  Hear within devils pass through a participle
accelerator as the sound of nouns bleeds away the din to reveal Pandemonium.

--Michael Gizzi

If an ancient had an epileptic seizure, he was possessed by a
thousand devils.  When he regained consciousness, the devils were
driven out by a healer. The devils had to go somewhere. In this case
they have gone into the poems. Upon reading this book, my brain
seemed to be scorched with a hissing flame of fire. a million nerves
were open and screaming in agony, curling hooks into my flesh. I went
to bed but could not sleep. The words were like flying birds, the
lines like humming bees. Pandemonium! The poems roar or whisper
balefully from the sand or from the wind, or stir unseen in the
coiling silence; or fall from the heavens like  crushing incubi. They
yawn like a sudden pit before the eye of the reader. I see in the
poems the traces of a simple honest heart; and in his large, deep
eyes, fiery black and bold, there seem tokens of a spirit that would
dare a thousand devils (and the hairy creature clinging to his
throat) to scream with infernal delight at the sound and sight of
these verses' awful agony and hopeless despair. With their dismal
fooleries they transform our worthless days and disentangle a
thousand evils, and they are indeed, incredible.

--Nada Gordon
*************************

We hope to be up and available at Small Press Distribution soon but for now all
COMBO publications can be purchased with cash or check mailed to

Michael Magee
Combo
6 Brookwood Ln.
Cumberland, RI 02864

All inquiries should be addressed to combo1 at cox.net


Come and get em!

Michael Magee
www.combopoetry.com






From anny.ballardini  Mon Aug  9 15:16:36 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:16:36 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)
References: <f160a121040809064610eafeab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009b01c47e45$64129880$0c1c2dd5@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Thank you for this poem Hal,

that passage of the peaches crying out
_Your name, the name nobody knows but you._
got stuck in my throat somehow.

Anny

From: "Halvard Johnson" <halvard at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Monday, August 09,
2004 3:46 PM


> The Evening of the Mind
>
> Now comes the evening of the mind.
> Here are the fireflies twitching in the blood;
> Here is the shadow moving down the page
> Where you sit reading by the garden wall.
> Now the dwarf peach trees, nailed to their trellises,
> Shudder and droop. Your know their voices now,
> Faintly the martyred peaches crying out
> Your name, the name nobody knows but you.
> It is the aura and the coming on.
> It is the thing descending, circling, here.
> And now it puts a claw out and you take it.
> Thankfully in your lap you take it, so.
>
> You said you would not go away again,
> You did not want to go away -- and yet,
> It is as if you stood out on the dock
> Watching a little boat drift out
> Beyond the sawgrass shallows, the dead fish ...
> And you were in it, skimming past old snags,
> Beyond, beyond, under a brazen sky
> As soundless as a gong before it's struck --
> Suspended how? -- and now they strike it, now
> The ether dream of five-years-old repeats, repeats,
> And you must wake again to your own blood
> And empty spaces in the throat.
>
>             Donald Justice,
>             fr. *Night Light*, University Press of New England, 1965
>
>
> --
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
>
> -- 
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From adead_poet  Mon Aug  9 17:05:49 2004
From: adead_poet (Adead)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:05:49 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject)
Message-ID: <aquvjlvqkfobfubtgvf@wiz.cath.vt.edu>

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From JforJames  Mon Aug  9 16:52:51 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:52:51 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz
Message-ID: <1e4.273d0d81.2e493e23@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/8/2004 2:08:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
clitophon at yahoo.com writes:
I think Nietzsche is one of the people who might have
prevented the Nazi Movement.   Nazism grew out of
centuries of Christian sponsored anti-semitism in
Europe.  It especially eminated from the Catholic
church, an institution that hated Nietzsche for his
anti-christian, yet positive and progressive theories.
I think Nietzsche has been used as a scapegoat.  The
various complex messages of his work go far beyond
Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
from across the political spectrum.  He has a
universalism that was always going to be displaced in
some way and an obvious propensity to be
mis-understood as every great thinker is.  By setting
up N as a scapegoat, most of the justified anger could
be directed his way and not against the set up of
religious charlatans and mystifiers.
Didn't Nietzche have a falling out with his sister over
the anti-Semitism he saw arise in her after she married
a Jew hater?...I think she got control over his manuscripts
and papers after he went mad/died and she may have 'crafted'
his writings (often contradictory) or selectively published
tracts that fell in line with Fascist/Nationalist sentiments
arising in post-WWI Germany.
Finnegan 
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From JforJames  Mon Aug  9 17:10:03 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:10:03 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Justice obit
Message-ID: <1e9.2717762a.2e49422b@aol.com>

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/9346930.htm?1c

Writer won Pulitzer Prize for his poetry
 
BY KATHLEEN FORDYCE
Poet and Pulitzer Prize winner Donald Justice, a Miami native and author of 
more than 10 books, died Friday from pneumonia at a nursing home in Iowa. He 
was 78.
 
Justice not only wrote poetry, he traveled the country teaching his art at 
colleges and universities, including the University of Miami.
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From JforJames  Mon Aug  9 17:29:10 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:29:10 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] soldier's stories & poems
Message-ID: <6.30086755.2e4946a6@aol.com>

Trying to Make the Pen as Mighty as the Sword

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/books/04BOOK.html

The poet Andrew Hudgins teaching marines at Camp Lejeune in Jacksonville, N.C.
 
By BRUCE WEBER
 
Published: August 4, 2004
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Aug  9 17:31:47 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:31:47 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] soldier's stories & poems
Message-ID: <7a.5e3a9409.2e494743@cs.com>

The fourth edition of my Poetry: A Pocket Anthology has just arrived from the 
printer.  You can check it out at

http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0321244966,00.html
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Aug  9 17:44:44 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:44:44 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Oops
Message-ID: <12c.489864a2.2e494a4c@cs.com>

Meant to put in a new header for this one:

The fourth edition of my Poetry: A Pocket Anthology has just arrived from the 
printer. You can check it out at

http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0321244966,00.html 
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From alphavil  Mon Aug  9 19:06:53 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:06:53 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Assassinated Press: From Street Terror To State Terror
In-Reply-To: <1e4.273d0d81.2e493e23@aol.com>
References: <1e4.273d0d81.2e493e23@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4118038D.3070308@ix.netcom.com>

 From Street Terror To State Terror:
Today Revolution, Tomorrow the United States Of Al Qaeda:
Al Qaeda, Following The Path Of The American Founding Fathers:
Recognizing The Once And Future Riches

By BUBBLES KILLENSPEW
The Assassinated Press
August 8, 2004







From JforJames  Tue Aug 10 08:57:58 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:57:58 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry: A Pocket Anthology 
Message-ID: <45.12b95688.2e4a2056@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/9/2004 5:45:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com 
writes:

> The fourth edition of my Poetry: A Pocket Anthology has just arrived from 
> the printer. You can check it out at
> 
> http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0321244966,00.html 
> 

Sam,
That sounds very successful...how many would that be 
out there in the world if it sells out of 4 printings?
Finnegan
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From Rsgwynn1  Tue Aug 10 09:09:03 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:09:03 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry: A Pocket Anthology 
Message-ID: <d8.1171506f.2e4a22ef@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/10/2004 7:58:53 AM Central Daylight Time, 
JforJames at aol.com writes: 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 8/9/2004 5:45:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes:
> 
> >> The fourth edition of my Poetry: A Pocket Anthology has just arrived from 
>> the printer. You can check it out at
>> 
>> http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0321244966,00.html 
>> 
>> 
> 
> Sam,
> That sounds very successful...how many would that be 
> out there in the world if it sells out of 4 printings?
> Finnegan
> 
Good question.  I figure around 25,000 have currently been used of the first 
three editions.
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From clitophon  Wed Aug 11 04:52:54 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz
In-Reply-To: <1e4.273d0d81.2e493e23@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040811085254.66367.qmail@web40424.mail.yahoo.com>

Now we?re trying to find out who it was exactly
created the Nazi Nietzsche myth.  Its true that
Mussolini presented Hitler with N?s collected volumes
at a meeting on the Brenner Pass just after H came to
power.  Although intellectually aware it is probable
that Hitler couldn?t actually have read N since he
needed help with his German grammar when in gaol in
1923.  This leads onto the fundamental error of the
Hitler myth.  That H was a cunning, streetwise
politician who subverted democracy to establish
dictatorship.  In fact, I think from this that it
seems that H was a puppet, an able rabble rouser but
nothing more.   The absence of a written order re the
Holocaust also seems to substantiate this, that H was
in the dark about the Holocaust simply because the
Nazi heirarchy didn?t think very much of his opinion.
He was only nominally F?hrer  but everyone high up in
the party realised him to be an idiot.  
What do you think?
--- JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/8/2004 2:08:04 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, 
> clitophon at yahoo.com writes:
> I think Nietzsche is one of the people who might
> have
> prevented the Nazi Movement.   Nazism grew out of
> centuries of Christian sponsored anti-semitism in
> Europe.  It especially eminated from the Catholic
> church, an institution that hated Nietzsche for his
> anti-christian, yet positive and progressive
> theories.
> I think Nietzsche has been used as a scapegoat.  The
> various complex messages of his work go far beyond
> Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
> ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
> he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
> from across the political spectrum.  He has a
> universalism that was always going to be displaced
> in
> some way and an obvious propensity to be
> mis-understood as every great thinker is.  By
> setting
> up N as a scapegoat, most of the justified anger
> could
> be directed his way and not against the set up of
> religious charlatans and mystifiers.
> Didn't Nietzche have a falling out with his sister
> over
> the anti-Semitism he saw arise in her after she
> married
> a Jew hater?...I think she got control over his
> manuscripts
> and papers after he went mad/died and she may have
> 'crafted'
> his writings (often contradictory) or selectively
> published
> tracts that fell in line with Fascist/Nationalist
> sentiments
> arising in post-WWI Germany.
> Finnegan 
> > _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From anny.ballardini  Wed Aug 11 06:20:31 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:20:31 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] From today's poemhunter.com
Message-ID: <011901c47f8c$d52d20b0$f51c2dd5@yourpk9x5fuc06>

"I Thought of You" 

I thought of you and how you love this beauty, 
And walking up the long beach all alone 
I heard the waves breaking in measured thunder 
As you and I once heard their monotone. 

Around me were the echoing dunes, beyond me 
The cold and sparkling silver of the sea -- 
We two will pass through death and ages lengthen 
Before you hear that sound again with me. 

Sarah Teasdale 

A little breeze from the sea,
Anny
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From wjbat  Wed Aug 11 07:35:59 2004
From: wjbat (Wendy Battin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 07:35:59 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others, Carl Phillips
Message-ID: <9E2C0B36-EB8A-11D8-AD4B-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu>

Sudden Scattering of Leaves, All Gold

Sir,
the flies assemble
like so many parts of a working argument
around what proves it.  No sign, not yet,
of the rains you spoke of. --Will they come,
ever?
            It's day, mostly.  The light
extends like truth, the truth like
a hand extending at the same time as
it recedes.
                    What is _that_ like?
One moment, I'm a pitcher of
milk tipped dangerously forward; the next,
a band of pilgrims, pilgriming
toward the latest report: pieces of heaven again--
here, on earth.
                            Between tenderness
and violent force, if the choice is easy,
why then does each seem equally, with the same
persuasiveness, a form of luck
beneath which--
                             beneath which, I
should know better?
                                    In the meadows, in
adoration, am I not yours?


Carl Phillips, _The Rest of Love_


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wendy Battin
Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com
--------------------------

enstasy




From clitophon  Wed Aug 11 08:24:05 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 05:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wien
In-Reply-To: <20040811085254.66367.qmail@web40424.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040811122405.92193.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>

my first impressions of Wien was that I was in The
Pianist not merely touching the facade Polanski
constructed at Babelburg.  Igor, that large Russian
curmudgeon, stood at West Hauptbahnhof, looking very
much like the Russian paratrooper he first reminded me
of in Freiburg.  In truth he was gentle as a lamb, an
expert in semi-conductors and bad Russian jokes.  I
managed to get locked out of the apartment and had to
rush around looking for a phone box.  Ominously none
of the phones worked so I walked into a little cafe
with some friendly locals (what an oxymoron).  I
phoned directory enquiries to obtain his number and
was then stung for 18 euroes bill which I then argued
down to 10.  So, I went back to the apartment store
until Igor heard my screams about 3PM, attempting at
the same time to feed me some pickled gherkin, a
ubiquitous substance in Russia now and clearly their
marajuana.  I quickly realised that all the broken
phones might be the seed of a conspiracy but realised
this morning, in Mariahilferstra?e that the department
stores generously donated free e-mail.  It was from
there that I arranged the interview with Frau M.
Striding past the Joseph Haydn statue, the Joseph
Haydn memorial church and the Joseph Haydn English
cinema.  This wasn?t Wien, city of Freud's discovery,
this was Hell or a wee dimly lit alcove at the entry
to Hell, the one with the red spanglers and grossly
over-priced alcopops.
PM


		
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From tad  Tue Aug 10 09:14:15 2004
From: tad (The Old Mole)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:14:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)
References: <f160a121040809064610eafeab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c4800c$5bebcf00$6501a8c0@MoleHQ>

IOWA CITY, 1962



Donald Justice playing

softball, dark shades

cloaking his courtliness

like a bandit's mask on an



owl, but he'll not be

courtly for long

anyway: a call goes

against him, and his cheeks flame,



his arm goes up in a

pumping protest

against the vagaries

of wind, spin, fingertips' torque -



the only subtleties

to elude him?

I so wanted to be

like him then, not that I'd have



admitted it-only

that innocence,

that wild softball passion,

that one hapless assurance.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Halvard Johnson" <halvard at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:46 AM
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)


> The Evening of the Mind
>
> Now comes the evening of the mind.
> Here are the fireflies twitching in the blood;
> Here is the shadow moving down the page
> Where you sit reading by the garden wall.
> Now the dwarf peach trees, nailed to their trellises,
> Shudder and droop. Your know their voices now,
> Faintly the martyred peaches crying out
> Your name, the name nobody knows but you.
> It is the aura and the coming on.
> It is the thing descending, circling, here.
> And now it puts a claw out and you take it.
> Thankfully in your lap you take it, so.
>
> You said you would not go away again,
> You did not want to go away -- and yet,
> It is as if you stood out on the dock
> Watching a little boat drift out
> Beyond the sawgrass shallows, the dead fish ...
> And you were in it, skimming past old snags,
> Beyond, beyond, under a brazen sky
> As soundless as a gong before it's struck --
> Suspended how? -- and now they strike it, now
> The ether dream of five-years-old repeats, repeats,
> And you must wake again to your own blood
> And empty spaces in the throat.
>
>             Donald Justice,
>             fr. *Night Light*, University Press of New England, 1965
>
>
> --
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
>
> -- 
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>





From gmguddi  Wed Aug 11 22:20:51 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:20:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
In-Reply-To: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
References: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040811211021.02faafe0@mail.ilstu.edu>

Yeah, that Weinberger guy's got a real fine ear alright, All that wine and 
burger eating.

At 04:02 PM 8/5/2004, Chris Stroffolino wrote:
>Ah, what an "ear" that fella whineburger's got


and

At 02:39 PM 8/5/2004, Helen Ruggieri wrote:
Yeah, but look at it this way - ya keep em poor and hungry and they'll 
enlist just to eat.    It's all part of the plan.
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From grahamd  Thu Aug 12 10:47:45 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:47:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
Message-ID: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Our new Poet Laureate is Ted Kooser:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/11/nati
onal1959EDT0706.DTL



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From anny.ballardini  Thu Aug 12 11:08:24 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:08:24 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Thanks for letting us know,
Anny

From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:47 PM


> Our new Poet Laureate is Ted Kooser:
>
>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/11/nati
> onal1959EDT0706.DTL
>
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





From bobgrumman  Thu Aug 12 11:50:23 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:50:23 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Are laureates in only a year now?  Aside from how worthy they are, it seems
to me severely to diminish the office to have them in for less than five or
six years.  A real laureate should be in for life, I think.

--Bob G.





From crystallyn  Thu Aug 12 12:01:17 2004
From: crystallyn (Crystal King)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:01:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
In-Reply-To: <014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <d03e49bc040812090133c5fda2@mail.gmail.com>

Worse, they are only in for 8 months!  I suppose that makes the $35k
salary only slightly more palatable.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:50:23 -0400, Bob Grumman
<bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Are laureates in only a year now?  Aside from how worthy they are, it seems
> to me severely to diminish the office to have them in for less than five or
> six years.  A real laureate should be in for life, I think.
> 
........................................................
Hitch your wagon to a star. ~ Emerson

www.plumrubyreview.com



From anny.ballardini  Thu Aug 12 12:04:45 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:04:45 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>

There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might send us
up, too, what do you think, Bob?

From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:50 PM


> Are laureates in only a year now?  Aside from how worthy they are, it
seems
> to me severely to diminish the office to have them in for less than five
or
> six years.  A real laureate should be in for life, I think.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From bobgrumman  Thu Aug 12 12:52:30 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:52:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06><014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <017601c4808c$c3a05d20$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might send
us
> up, too, what do you think, Bob?

What??!  Share it with others!!??  I wanna be WORLD POET LAUREATE IN
PERPETUUM!

Mr. B.





From upwardcat  Thu Aug 12 13:47:10 2004
From: upwardcat (Wendy Battin)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:47:10 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
In-Reply-To: <005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <A2FB1EA6-EC87-11D8-800B-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>

On Aug 12, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
> There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might 
> send us
> up, too, what do you think, Bob?

I think we've already been sent up.

Kooser?!  Did Gluck resign?

Wendy

Wendy Battin        wjbat at conncoll.edu
Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com

Paper can't wrap up a fire.
Chinese




From grahamd  Thu Aug 12 15:12:41 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:12:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
Message-ID: <BD412B59.A769%grahamd@ripon.edu>

A list of all the laureates/consultants since 1937 is online at the Library
of Congress site. 

http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate.html

It's an interesting read, rather akin to lists of the Pulitzer or Yale
Younger winners, with which it overlaps notably--in other words, it's a fair
if limited snapshot of period taste and its evolution.

Interesting to see how Robert Frost, for one notable example, had to wait
for many years for the honor, which went before him to the likes of Robert
Penn Warren, Conrad Aiken, Randall Jarrell, Karl Shapiro, and Louise Bogan.
. . fine poets all, but not in Frost's league, as should have been clear
well before the late 1950s.

Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.

One interesting feature of the list is the way that it shows, in the
essential conservatism of official accolades, how firmly entrenched the Old
Formalists were until quite recently.  In other words, scan the honorees
during the heyday of "naked poetry" and such, and what will you find?  No
Ginsberg, Bly, Kinnell, Merwin, Ferlinghetti, Sexton, et al.--but rather
Nemerov, Kumin, Kunitz, Hecht, Eberhart, Spender, Wilbur, Daniel Hoffman. .
. . (William Carlos Williams was appointed to the post in 1952 but did not
serve.)

Time will tell if Ted Kooser is yet another Joseph Auslander, I have no
doubt.  


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From Rsgwynn1  Thu Aug 12 16:08:37 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:08:37 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
Message-ID: <79.30cf777d.2e4d2845@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/12/2004 2:11:20 PM Central Daylight Time, 
grahamd at ripon.edu writes: 
> 
> Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
> place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
> Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
> little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.


Smith is still with us, and I think Whittemore is as well.  Smith is still 
writing well.  I don't think Pound would have been a very savory choice, David.
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From grahamd  Thu Aug 12 16:21:09 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:21:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
In-Reply-To: <79.30cf777d.2e4d2845@cs.com>
Message-ID: <BD413B65.A775%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 8/12/04 3:08 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com at Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/12/2004 2:11:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
grahamd at ripon.edu writes:

Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.



Smith is still with us, and I think Whittemore is as well.  Smith is still
writing well.  I don't think Pound would have been a very savory choice,
David. 
_______________________________________________



Didn't say they were dead, Sam, just that they were consultants decades ago;
didn't say they were lousy poets, either, just that they may not be among
the immortals.  Neither may you and I, obviously.  Frost is one of the few
on the list I'm personally certain about.

About Pound & prizes, I seem to recall a *bit* of controversy on that score
over the years, a can of worms I won't be opening here. . . .

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From Rsgwynn1  Thu Aug 12 16:22:09 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:22:09 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
Message-ID: <1ce.2878536a.2e4d2b71@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/12/2004 3:19:42 PM Central Daylight Time, 
grahamd at ripon.edu writes: 
> 
> 
> on 8/12/04 3:08 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com at Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
> 
> >> In a message dated 8/12/2004 2:11:20 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>> grahamd at ripon.edu writes: 
>> >>> 
>>> Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
>>> place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
>>> Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
>>> little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Smith is still with us, and I think Whittemore is as well.  Smith is still 
>> writing well.  I don't think Pound would have been a very savory choice, 
>> David. 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> 
> Didn't say they were dead, Sam, just that they were consultants decades ago; 
> didn't say they were lousy poets, either, just that they may not be among 
> the immortals.  Neither may you and I, obviously.  Frost is one of the few on 
> the list I'm personally certain about.
> 
> About Pound &prizes, I seem to recall a *bit* of controversy on that score 
> over the years, a can of worms I won't be opening here. . . .
> 
Yeah, and that was a Library of Congress brouhaha, too.
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From clitophon  Thu Aug 12 17:36:15 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:36:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCnchen?=
In-Reply-To: <20040811122405.92193.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040812213615.88221.qmail@web40408.mail.yahoo.com>

Now I?m in M?nchen I see what a toy town it is
compared to Berlin.  Still M?nchen is a bit cleaner,
it just has nothing to compare with Friedrichstra?e or
Potsdamer Platz.  I?m amazed that I didn?t see this
before but then I was never in Berlin before.  Tonight
I went to the sauna, a very traditional and popular
German pleasure.  Again I just yearned to get back to
Berlin, to the sauna near the Kaiser Wilhelm
Ged?chtnis Kirche.  In Berlin I was just around the
corner from the Friedhof where Hegel, Fichte,
Brecht\Wiegel lie, now there?s history.  Not that
M?nchen doesn?t have history either but it all seems
charming and slightly nonsensically eccentric in a
K?nig Ludwig\Richard Wagner way.


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail



From anny.ballardini  Thu Aug 12 18:31:57 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:31:57 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06><014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc><005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<A2FB1EA6-EC87-11D8-800B-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c480bc$2dbd6390$8ea93452@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Yes, you are right, about that ascending.
And beautiful pictures of Aegina on your site,

Anny Ballardini
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome

The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather
admirers.
Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky

From: "Wendy Battin" <upwardcat at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:47 PM


> On Aug 12, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
> > There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might
> > send us
> > up, too, what do you think, Bob?
>
> I think we've already been sent up.
>
> Kooser?!  Did Gluck resign?
>
> Wendy
>
> Wendy Battin        wjbat at conncoll.edu
> Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com
>
> Paper can't wrap up a fire.
> Chinese
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From hruggier  Thu Aug 12 20:26:17 2004
From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:26:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06><014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc><005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<017601c4808c$c3a05d20$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <00ca01c480cc$275126d0$43099942@Helen>

Bob Southey to you!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled


> > There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might
send
> us
> > up, too, what do you think, Bob?
>
> What??!  Share it with others!!??  I wanna be WORLD POET LAUREATE IN
> PERPETUUM!
>
> Mr. B.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>





From hruggier  Thu Aug 12 20:33:30 2004
From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:33:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
References: <BD412B59.A769%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00f301c480cd$2954a280$43099942@Helen>

Do you think that because these folks were part of the poetry
establishment - judges, editors, etc. - they were
honored  rather than for "poetry" itself.

I know, that sentence is awful, but it's late and I've had a long day.

One of the common folks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:12 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot


> A list of all the laureates/consultants since 1937 is online at the
Library
> of Congress site.
>
> http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate.html
>
> It's an interesting read, rather akin to lists of the Pulitzer or Yale
> Younger winners, with which it overlaps notably--in other words, it's a
fair
> if limited snapshot of period taste and its evolution.
>
> Interesting to see how Robert Frost, for one notable example, had to wait
> for many years for the honor, which went before him to the likes of Robert
> Penn Warren, Conrad Aiken, Randall Jarrell, Karl Shapiro, and Louise
Bogan.
> . . fine poets all, but not in Frost's league, as should have been clear
> well before the late 1950s.
>
> Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
> place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
> Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
> little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.
>
> One interesting feature of the list is the way that it shows, in the
> essential conservatism of official accolades, how firmly entrenched the
Old
> Formalists were until quite recently.  In other words, scan the honorees
> during the heyday of "naked poetry" and such, and what will you find?  No
> Ginsberg, Bly, Kinnell, Merwin, Ferlinghetti, Sexton, et al.--but rather
> Nemerov, Kumin, Kunitz, Hecht, Eberhart, Spender, Wilbur, Daniel Hoffman.
.
> . . (William Carlos Williams was appointed to the post in 1952 but did not
> serve.)
>
> Time will tell if Ted Kooser is yet another Joseph Auslander, I have no
> doubt.
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>





From barry.spacks  Thu Aug 12 21:21:36 2004
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:21:36 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
In-Reply-To: <200408130024.i7D0OpYC008829@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040812181903.00b62ec8@incoming.verizon.net>


AT THE OFFICE EARLY

Rain has beaded the panes
of my office windows,
and in each little lens
the bank at the corner
hangs upside down.
What wonderful music
this rain must have made
in the night, a thousand banks
turned over, the change
crashing out of the drawers
and bouncing upstairs
to the roof, the soft
percussion of ferns
dropping out of their pots,
the ballpoint pens
popping out of their sockets
in a fluffy snow
of deposit slips.
Now all day long,
as the sun dries the glass,
I'll hear the soft piano
of banks righting themselves,
the underpaid tellers
counting their nickels and dimes.

TED KOOSER
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From Rsgwynn1  Thu Aug 12 23:03:20 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:03:20 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
Message-ID: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>

I frankly can't think of why anyone who has read his work would consider 
Kooser a "Hallmark Laureate."  He has been, in the course of a long and 
distinguished career, clearly outside the mainstream--not an academic, not an 
insider--and he has produced a body of work that speaks to many people, all things being 
relative.  I don't think he's a "populist" poet in any sense because the 
whole notion of a "populist" poet these days is pretty absurd when you get right 
down to it, unless you mean Eminem.  Like most poets, he is mostly admired by 
other poets, the only people in this country who really read much poetry and 
seriously care about it (alas)--and there are quite a few who have cared about 
Kooser's work for a long time.  It's a shame that he doesn't have a wider 
audience, but that's a complaint that could be lodged by/about 10,000+ other poets 
and those who respect their work.  Kooser's nomination came as a surprise to 
me, a pleasant one.
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From m.peverett  Fri Aug 13 05:36:55 2004
From: m.peverett (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:36:55 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
In-Reply-To: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>
References: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>
Message-ID: <1092389815.411c8bb7b0a63@webmail.ukonline.net>




Of course he's a populist poet.

And a sweet one. He had a funny idea about an upside-down bank and he knocked 
out a poem to make people smile on their way to the office. 

Which makes up, to a degree, for simple incompetence like "soft piano", which 
is not only tautologous but retroactively spoils the "soft percussion" of the 
crashing ferns which was the best thing in the poem. 

He's been elevated because he's Nebraskan and seems to be a regular guy; not 
because he can write. Google says: "a major poetic voice for rural and small-
town America and the first poet laureate chosen from the Great Plains." "an 
authentic poet of the American people" "Reading Local Wonders: Seasons in the 
Bohemian Alps is like visiting ?Uncle Ted? on the farm in Nebraska. Once 
you?re there, he invites you to rest on the porch in a comfortable but worn 
rocker and hands you a fresh lemonade. In a short time, you realize there?s 
nothing to rush off to, chirping birds make a wonderful metronome, and your 
host?a thoughtful witty man in his sixties with thin gray hair, a boyish 
smile, and wire rimmed glasses?has a critical eye for details." 
(nb "He is former vice-president of Lincoln Benefit Life, an insurance 
company, and lives on an acreage near the village of Garland, NE.") 




















Quoting Rsgwynn1 at cs.com:

> I frankly can't think of why anyone who has read his work would consider 
> Kooser a "Hallmark Laureate."  He has been, in the course of a long and 
> distinguished career, clearly outside the mainstream--not an academic, not an
> 
> insider--and he has produced a body of work that speaks to many people, all
> things being 
> relative.  I don't think he's a "populist" poet in any sense because the 
> whole notion of a "populist" poet these days is pretty absurd when you get
> right 
> down to it, unless you mean Eminem.  Like most poets, he is mostly admired by
> 
> other poets, the only people in this country who really read much poetry and
> 
> seriously care about it (alas)--and there are quite a few who have cared
> about 
> Kooser's work for a long time.  It's a shame that he doesn't have a wider 
> audience, but that's a complaint that could be lodged by/about 10,000+ other
> poets 
> and those who respect their work.  Kooser's nomination came as a surprise to
> 
> me, a pleasant one.
> 




----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net



From anny.ballardini  Fri Aug 13 05:57:21 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:57:21 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>
	<1092389815.411c8bb7b0a63@webmail.ukonline.net>
Message-ID: <004201c4811b$ed69f1e0$11aa3452@yourpk9x5fuc06>

I liked this one:

            Selecting A Reader


              First, I would have her be beautiful,
            and walking carefully up on my poetry
            at the loneliest moment of an afternoon,
            her hair still damp at the neck
            from washing it. She should be wearing
            a raincoat, an old one, dirty
            from not having money enough for the cleaners.
            She will take out her glasses, and there
            in the bookstore, she will thumb
            over my poems, then put the book back
            up on its shelf. She will say to herself,
            "For that kind of money, I can get
            my raincoat cleaned." And she will.

            Ted Kooser


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled


>
>
>
> Of course he's a populist poet.
>
> And a sweet one. He had a funny idea about an upside-down bank and he
knocked
> out a poem to make people smile on their way to the office.
>
> Which makes up, to a degree, for simple incompetence like "soft piano",
which
> is not only tautologous but retroactively spoils the "soft percussion" of
the
> crashing ferns which was the best thing in the poem.
>
> He's been elevated because he's Nebraskan and seems to be a regular guy;
not
> because he can write. Google says: "a major poetic voice for rural and
small-
> town America and the first poet laureate chosen from the Great Plains."
"an
> authentic poet of the American people" "Reading Local Wonders: Seasons in
the
> Bohemian Alps is like visiting "Uncle Ted" on the farm in Nebraska. Once
> you're there, he invites you to rest on the porch in a comfortable but
worn
> rocker and hands you a fresh lemonade. In a short time, you realize
there's
> nothing to rush off to, chirping birds make a wonderful metronome, and
your
> host-a thoughtful witty man in his sixties with thin gray hair, a boyish
> smile, and wire rimmed glasses-has a critical eye for details."
> (nb "He is former vice-president of Lincoln Benefit Life, an insurance
> company, and lives on an acreage near the village of Garland, NE.")
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Rsgwynn1 at cs.com:
>
> > I frankly can't think of why anyone who has read his work would consider
> > Kooser a "Hallmark Laureate."  He has been, in the course of a long and
> > distinguished career, clearly outside the mainstream--not an academic,
not an
> >
> > insider--and he has produced a body of work that speaks to many people,
all
> > things being
> > relative.  I don't think he's a "populist" poet in any sense because the
> > whole notion of a "populist" poet these days is pretty absurd when you
get
> > right
> > down to it, unless you mean Eminem.  Like most poets, he is mostly
admired by
> >
> > other poets, the only people in this country who really read much poetry
and
> >
> > seriously care about it (alas)--and there are quite a few who have cared
> > about
> > Kooser's work for a long time.  It's a shame that he doesn't have a
wider
> > audience, but that's a complaint that could be lodged by/about 10,000+
other
> > poets
> > and those who respect their work.  Kooser's nomination came as a
surprise to
> >
> > me, a pleasant one.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From anny.ballardini  Fri Aug 13 06:05:32 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:05:32 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com><1092389815.411c8bb7b0a63@webmail.ukonline.net>
	<004201c4811b$ed69f1e0$11aa3452@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <004801c4811d$11dbd1f0$11aa3452@yourpk9x5fuc06>

And this one is quite representative, I guess, of why he was chosen, from
Poetry Daily:

Garrison, Nebraska


  The north-south streets are named for poets-
  Longfellow, Whittier, Bryant, Lowell-
  so it's no surprise that this tiny village
  is fading to gray, mildewed and dusty,
  shelved at the back of the busy library
  of American progress. On this winter day
  all that's left of Whittier's "Snowbound"
  whispers in under the nailed-shut door
  of a house at the edge of a cornfield,
  and slides across a red vinyl car seat
  wedged in a broken tree. All but a few
  stubborn families have packed up and left,
  seeking a better life, following Evangeline,
  leaving this island with its cars up on blocks,
  its gardens of broken washing machines,
  its empty rabbit hutches nailed to sheds,
  cold and alone on the sea of the prairie,
  to be pounded and pounded forever
  by time and these whitecaps of snow.


  Ted Kooser


  He was able to ring a strange nostalgia in me. Anny





From bobgrumman  Fri Aug 13 07:04:42 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:04:42 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040812181903.00b62ec8@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <006401c48125$57b94830$3aefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Sounds a lot like Billy Collins.  (Not a sneer--I like it, as I like many of his poems.)

--Bob G.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barry Spacks 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:21 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!




    AT THE OFFICE EARLY


    Rain has beaded the panes 
    of my office windows, 
    and in each little lens 
    the bank at the corner 
    hangs upside down. 
    What wonderful music 
    this rain must have made 
    in the night, a thousand banks 
    turned over, the change 
    crashing out of the drawers 
    and bouncing upstairs 
    to the roof, the soft 
    percussion of ferns 
    dropping out of their pots, 
    the ballpoint pens 
    popping out of their sockets 
    in a fluffy snow 
    of deposit slips. 
    Now all day long, 
    as the sun dries the glass, 
    I'll hear the soft piano 
    of banks righting themselves, 
    the underpaid tellers 
    counting their nickels and dimes.


    TED KOOSER 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From bobgrumman  Fri Aug 13 07:12:12 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:12:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>
Message-ID: <008401c48126$63b89cc0$3aefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  I frankly can't think of why anyone who has read his work would consider Kooser a "Hallmark Laureate."  He has been, in the course of a long and distinguished career, clearly outside the mainstream

  What kind of mainstream can you possibly talking about, Sam?  My impression is that Kooser is a good poet but absolutely mainstream.  What poetic device or subject matter or anything is he using that hasn't been mainstream for fifty years.  I know, you go on to suggest that being mainstream is being an academic and/or in some in-group.  To me being a mainstreamer means writing the same kind of poems mainstreamers write (and getting them published in mainstream venues, as I'm sure Kooser has).  I am against his nomination because I think an occasional innovative poet ought to serve as poet laureate.

  --Bob G.
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From Rsgwynn1  Fri Aug 13 09:31:10 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:31:10 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
Message-ID: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>

My favorite.

Abandoned Farmhouse
by Ted Kooser, 1980
from Sure Signs: New and Selected Poems

He was big man, says the size of his shoes
on a pile of broken dishes by his house;
a tall man too, says the length of the bed
in an upstairs room; and a good, God-fearing man,
says the Bible with a broken back
on the floor below the window, dusty with sun;
but not a man for farming, say the fields
cluttered with boulders and the leaky barn.
A woman lived here, says the bedroom wall
papered with lilacs and the kitchen shelves
covered with oilcloth, and they had a child,
says the sandbox made from a tractor tire.
Money was scarce, say the jar of plum preserves
and canned tomatoes sealed in the cellar hole.
And the winters cold, say the rags in the window frames.

It was lonely here, says the narrow country road.
Something went wrong, says the empty house
in the weed-choked yard. Stones in the fields
say he was not a farmer; the still-sealed jars
in the cellar say she left in a nervous haste.
And the child? Its toys are strewn in the yard
like branches after a storm - a rubber cow,
a rusty tractor with a broken plow,
a doll in overalls. Something went wrong, they say.

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From m.peverett  Fri Aug 13 11:06:20 2004
From: m.peverett (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:06:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
In-Reply-To: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>
References: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>
Message-ID: <1092409580.411cd8ec5f3c9@webmail.ukonline.net>

Yes, this is more like. I'm glad you quoted this. 


Quoting Rsgwynn1 at cs.com:

> My favorite.
> 
> Abandoned Farmhouse
> by Ted Kooser, 1980
> from Sure Signs: New and Selected Poems
> 
> He was big man, says the size of his shoes
> on a pile of broken dishes by his house;
> a tall man too, says the length of the bed
> in an upstairs room; and a good, God-fearing man,
> says the Bible with a broken back
> on the floor below the window, dusty with sun;
> but not a man for farming, say the fields
> cluttered with boulders and the leaky barn.
> A woman lived here, says the bedroom wall
> papered with lilacs and the kitchen shelves
> covered with oilcloth, and they had a child,
> says the sandbox made from a tractor tire.
> Money was scarce, say the jar of plum preserves
> and canned tomatoes sealed in the cellar hole.
> And the winters cold, say the rags in the window frames.
> 
> It was lonely here, says the narrow country road.
> Something went wrong, says the empty house
> in the weed-choked yard. Stones in the fields
> say he was not a farmer; the still-sealed jars
> in the cellar say she left in a nervous haste.
> And the child? Its toys are strewn in the yard
> like branches after a storm - a rubber cow,
> a rusty tractor with a broken plow,
> a doll in overalls. Something went wrong, they say.
> 
> 




----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net



From alphavil  Fri Aug 13 10:47:20 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:47:20 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Washington DC
In-Reply-To: <BD412B59.A769%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BD412B59.A769%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <411CD478.4040203@ix.netcom.com>

The Washington Post on WMDs--- An Inside Job:
Post Knew It Had Another Gulf Of Tonkin On Its Hands And Like 
Administration And Congress It Lied As Iraqis And Americans Die[d]:
Prewar Articles Questioning Threat Often Didn't Make Front Page; For 
Full Orchestration See Page R97:
Cheney's Oil Gouge At The Pump Fuckin' Up Roger Noriega's Ability To 
Murder Chavez And Allow Cheney To Steal Venezuela's Oil; Greed Blinds De 
Facto Chief Executive And Corporate Paramour; Noriega Hopes Referendum 
Leads To Chavez's Murder, Resumes Starvation Of Poor, Opens Venezuelan 
Oil To American Grift:
People Protecting Their Houses Of Worship Butchered By Americans In Najaf

By BOWAND KURTZY
Assassinated Press Staff Writer

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/kurtzy.htm



From anna_beth_young  Fri Aug 13 11:25:06 2004
From: anna_beth_young (Anna Young)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
In-Reply-To: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>
Message-ID: <20040813152506.85195.qmail@web51304.mail.yahoo.com>

i liked this poem too, when I read it years ago, it reminded me of R.S. Thomas -- thanks for posting it here.

Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:My favorite.

Abandoned Farmhouse
by Ted Kooser, 1980
from Sure Signs: New and Selected Poems

He was big man, says the size of his shoes
on a pile of broken dishes by his house;
a tall man too, says the length of the bed
in an upstairs room; and a good, God-fearing man,
says the Bible with a broken back
on the floor below the window, dusty with sun;
but not a man for farming, say the fields
cluttered with boulders and the leaky barn.
A woman lived here, says the bedroom wall
papered with lilacs and the kitchen shelves
covered with oilcloth, and they had a child,
says the sandbox made from a tractor tire.
Money was scarce, say the jar of plum preserves
and canned tomatoes sealed in the cellar hole.
And the winters cold, say the rags in the window frames.

It was lonely here, says the narrow country road.
Something went wrong, says the empty house
in the weed-choked yard. Stones in the fields
say he was not a farmer; the still-sealed jars
in the cellar say she left in a nervous haste.
And the child? Its toys are strewn in the yard
like branches after a storm - a rubber cow,
a rusty tractor with a broken plow,
a doll in overalls. Something went wrong, they say.

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


		
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From bobgrumman  Fri Aug 13 12:39:47 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:39:47 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
References: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>
	<1092409580.411cd8ec5f3c9@webmail.ukonline.net>
Message-ID: <00dc01c48154$2afd8430$41efa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Sorry, I find this thing way overdone.  And prosaic.

The Literary Terrorist

> > Abandoned Farmhouse
> > by Ted Kooser, 1980
> > from Sure Signs: New and Selected Poems
> > 
> > He was big man, says the size of his shoes
> > on a pile of broken dishes by his house;
> > a tall man too, says the length of the bed
> > in an upstairs room; and a good, God-fearing man,
> > says the Bible with a broken back
> > on the floor below the window, dusty with sun;
> > but not a man for farming, say the fields
> > cluttered with boulders and the leaky barn.
> > A woman lived here, says the bedroom wall
> > papered with lilacs and the kitchen shelves
> > covered with oilcloth, and they had a child,
> > says the sandbox made from a tractor tire.
> > Money was scarce, say the jar of plum preserves
> > and canned tomatoes sealed in the cellar hole.
> > And the winters cold, say the rags in the window frames.
> > 
> > It was lonely here, says the narrow country road.
> > Something went wrong, says the empty house
> > in the weed-choked yard. Stones in the fields
> > say he was not a farmer; the still-sealed jars
> > in the cellar say she left in a nervous haste.
> > And the child? Its toys are strewn in the yard
> > like branches after a storm - a rubber cow,
> > a rusty tractor with a broken plow,
> > a doll in overalls. Something went wrong, they say.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




From barry.spacks  Fri Aug 13 14:10:50 2004
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:10:50 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Julia
In-Reply-To: <200408131600.i7DG04YC011707@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040813110759.00b726e8@incoming.verizon.net>



                                     WEEPER
                              for Simms Teramoto

Just because I tend to weep
at funerals, at weddings,

sometimes at well-spiced noodle-dishes;

once while reading Kurt Vonnegut
where he wrote that The Statler Brothers, great singers,
adopted the name of their band from a brand
of paper towels, and once when Julia
Child spent twenty-two pages telling
how properly to prepare french bread,

doesn't mean (recalling Goethe-,
Beethoven-loving Nazis) that I'm

a good guy, just because I weep...
but God, it feels that way!

                                 -- Barry Spacks
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From hruggier  Fri Aug 13 20:39:09 2004
From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 20:39:09 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Julia
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040813110759.00b726e8@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <010b01c48197$1d696df0$eb089942@Helen>

Go, Barry!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barry Spacks 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:10 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Julia





                                            WEEPER 
                                     for Simms Teramoto


        Just because I tend to weep 
        at funerals, at weddings,


        sometimes at well-spiced noodle-dishes;


        once while reading Kurt Vonnegut 
        where he wrote that The Statler Brothers, great singers, 
        adopted the name of their band from a brand 
        of paper towels, and once when Julia 
        Child spent twenty-two pages telling 
        how properly to prepare french bread,


        doesn't mean (recalling Goethe-, 
        Beethoven-loving Nazis) that I'm


        a good guy, just because I weep... 
        but God, it feels that way!


                                        -- Barry Spacks 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From upwardcat  Sat Aug 14 06:42:33 2004
From: upwardcat (Wendy Battin)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 06:42:33 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Milosz
Message-ID: <A6613512-EDDE-11D8-8A1F-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>

Nobel Laureate Czeslaw Milosz Dies at 93
Aug 14, 6:31 AM (ET)

WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Polish poet and Nobel laureate Czeslaw Milosz, 
known for his intellectual and emotional works about some of the worst 
cruelties of the 20th century, died Saturday, the Polish news agency 
PAP reported. He was 93.

The report, quoting his son Antoni and his daughter Joanna, said he 
died at his home in Krakow. It gave no cause of death.

Milosz had lived in Krakow since the fall of the Iron Curtain allowed 
him to return home after almost 30 years in exile in France and the 
United States, a time in which he became a prominent symbol for 
anti-communist dissidents.

He was awarded the Nobel prize in literature in 1980, an honor that 
coincided with the emergence of the Solidarity worker protest movement 
that shook communist rule in Poland.


=============
Wendy Battin      wjbat at conncoll.edu
Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com

What you lose in the fire, you will find in the ashes. 




From clitophon  Sat Aug 14 12:52:14 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Topographie des Terrors
In-Reply-To: <A6613512-EDDE-11D8-8A1F-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20040814165214.85178.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear M,

I visited this retro theme park of the Dritten Reich. 
The faces of Heydrich, He?, Himmler almost have a
homeliness and are certainly as familiar as the faces
of many old friends.  There are some hilarious photos
- a platoon of Wehrmacht infantrymen form the shape of
a swastika and fire a volley into the air.  Its hard
not to be reminded of the hilarious camp Hollywood
choreography a la Busby Berkeley when you see this. 
There are the many sobering but rather predictable
photos of the opfers.  I think with so much
predictability I started to question the meanings of
some of the photos.  Of course photos of a pogrom in
Poland could be photos of a pogrom almost anywhere,
doctored, produced, sexed up.  At a very basic level
the Museum presumes an uncritical and unquestioning
audience which is not to say that many, if not all of
the images are true, real or whatever.  But we?re not
led to ask the question - does the camera ever lie
which would have made the exhibition very interesting
indeed, questioning its own terms and veracity?  I
might have believed in it then.  

PM



		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. 
http://messenger.yahoo.com



From grahamd  Sat Aug 14 12:57:30 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:57:30 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Milosz/Earth Without Grammar
In-Reply-To: <A6613512-EDDE-11D8-8A1F-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <BD43AEAA.A84D%grahamd@ripon.edu>

THE THISTLE, THE NETTLE


    Let the sad terrestrials remember me,
    recognize me and salute:  the thistle and the tall nettle,
    and the childhood enemy, belladonna.
        -O.  V.  DE  L.  MILOSZ, "Les  Terrains Vagues"


The thistle, the nettle,  the burdock, and belladonna
Have a future.  Theirs are wastelands
And rusty railroad tracks, the sky, silence.

Who  shall I be for men many generations later?
When, after the clamor of tongues, the award goes to silence?

I was to be redeemed by the gift of arranging words
But must be prepared for an earth without grammar,

For the thistle, the nettle, the burdock, and the belladonna,
And a small wind above them, a sleepy cloud, silence.

    --Czeslaw Milosz, trans. Hass & Milosz.
---------------------------


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From writerslink  Sat Aug 14 21:53:16 2004
From: writerslink (Chris Mansell)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:53:16 +1000
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Milosz
In-Reply-To: <A6613512-EDDE-11D8-8A1F-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <BD44FF2C.6A04%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>

Now the world is diminished.
Cm
On 14/8/04 8:42 PM, "Wendy Battin" <upwardcat at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Nobel Laureate Czeslaw Milosz Dies at 93
> Aug 14, 6:31 AM (ET)
> 
> WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Polish poet and Nobel laureate Czeslaw Milosz,
> known for his intellectual and emotional works about some of the worst
> cruelties of the 20th century, died Saturday, the Polish news agency
> PAP reported. He was 93.
> 
> The report, quoting his son Antoni and his daughter Joanna, said he
> died at his home in Krakow. It gave no cause of death.
> 
> Milosz had lived in Krakow since the fall of the Iron Curtain allowed
> him to return home after almost 30 years in exile in France and the
> United States, a time in which he became a prominent symbol for
> anti-communist dissidents.
> 
> He was awarded the Nobel prize in literature in 1980, an honor that
> coincided with the emergence of the Solidarity worker protest movement
> that shook communist rule in Poland.
> 
> 
> =============
> Wendy Battin      wjbat at conncoll.edu
> Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com
> 
> What you lose in the fire, you will find in the ashes.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From grahamd  Sun Aug 15 12:23:14 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:23:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Feast of Brief Hopes
Message-ID: <BD44F822.A88B%grahamd@ripon.edu>

A Confession

My Lord, I loved strawberry jam
And the dark sweetness of a woman's body.
Also well-chilled vodka, herring in olive oil,
Scents, of cinnamon, of cloves.
So what kind of prophet am I?  Why should the spirit
Have visited such a man? Many others
Were justly called, and trustworthy.
Who would have trusted me? For they saw
How I empty glasses, throw myself on food,
And glance greedily at the waitress's neck.
Flawed and aware of it.   Desiring greatness,
Able to recognize greatness wherever it is,
And yet not quite, only in part, clairvoyant,
I knew what was left for smaller men like me:
A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the proud,
A tournament of hunchbacks, literature.

            Berkeley, 1985

--Czeslaw Milosz.  Trans. Milosz & Robert Hass. *The Collected Poems
1931-1987*. 


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From alphavil  Sun Aug 15 12:15:43 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:15:43 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Feast of Brief Hopes
In-Reply-To: <BD44F822.A88B%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BD44F822.A88B%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <411F8C2F.5070102@ix.netcom.com>

<So what kind of prophet am[was] I?>

Deluded, perhaps? CP



David Graham wrote:

>A Confession
>
>My Lord, I loved strawberry jam
>And the dark sweetness of a woman's body.
>Also well-chilled vodka, herring in olive oil,
>Scents, of cinnamon, of cloves.
>So what kind of prophet am I?  Why should the spirit
>Have visited such a man? Many others
>Were justly called, and trustworthy.
>Who would have trusted me? For they saw
>How I empty glasses, throw myself on food,
>And glance greedily at the waitress's neck.
>Flawed and aware of it.   Desiring greatness,
>Able to recognize greatness wherever it is,
>And yet not quite, only in part, clairvoyant,
>I knew what was left for smaller men like me:
>A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the proud,
>A tournament of hunchbacks, literature.
>
>            Berkeley, 1985
>
>--Czeslaw Milosz.  Trans. Milosz & Robert Hass. *The Collected Poems
>1931-1987*. 
>
>
>====================================================
>David Graham
>grahamd at ripon.edu
>Home Page:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>Poetry Library:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>====================================================
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From anny.ballardini  Sun Aug 15 17:26:49 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:26:49 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
Message-ID: <003d01c4830e$9386ead0$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

I am forwarding this interesting and colored trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 

Anny

"Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from Bolivia, June 20-30," a
collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is newly available at
Jacket #25

 http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html

The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La Paz and environs, in
search of the ghost of the singularly strange and brilliant poet, Jaime
Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both historical and contemporary.
Hope some of you will take a look!

Kent
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From gmguddi  Sun Aug 15 17:42:19 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:42:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <003d01c4830e$9386ead0$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>
References: <003d01c4830e$9386ead0$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040815163614.029a4e08@mail.ilstu.edu>

Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with Forrest Gander. Forrest 
and Kent are CO-translators of Jaime Saenz.

Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET they each wrote: it's a half 
and half deal. Their translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of the 
Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN Translation award.

Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared in the great and 
internationally known magazine MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.

It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET.

Gabe

At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>I am forwarding this interesting and colored trip by Kent Johnson to 
>Bolivia to the list,
>
>Anny
>
>"Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is newly available at
>Jacket #25
>
> 
><http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html>http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>
>The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La Paz and environs, in
>search of the ghost of the singularly strange and brilliant poet, Jaime
>Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both historical and contemporary.
>Hope some of you will take a look!
>
>Kent
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini  Sun Aug 15 18:00:43 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 00:00:43 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
References: <003d01c4830e$9386ead0$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<6.0.3.0.2.20040815163614.029a4e08@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <008a01c48313$4f93f390$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent himself says just under my name that he and Gander wrote it together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned Kent since the message is signed by him. But thanks for taking your time and for giving all kinds of information, 

Anny
  From: Gabriel Gudding 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; New Poetry 
  Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson


  Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are CO-translators of Jaime Saenz.

  Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN Translation award.

  Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared in the great and internationally known magazine MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.

  It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 

  Gabe

  At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:

    I am forwarding this interesting and colored trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
     
    Anny
     
    "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from Bolivia, June 20-30," a
    collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is newly available at
    Jacket #25

     http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html

    The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La Paz and environs, in
    search of the ghost of the singularly strange and brilliant poet, Jaime
    Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both historical and contemporary.
    Hope some of you will take a look!

    Kent
    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From clitophon  Mon Aug 16 05:02:58 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:02:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <008a01c48313$4f93f390$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <20040816090258.96858.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>

this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I thought
the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
doing with us?
PM
--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:

> Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent himself
> says just under my name that he and Gander wrote it
> together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned Kent
> since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
> taking your time and for giving all kinds of
> information, 
> 
> Anny
>   From: Gabriel Gudding 
>   To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ;
> New Poetry 
>   Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>   Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
> Johnson
> 
> 
>   Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
> Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are CO-translators
> of Jaime Saenz.
> 
>   Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
> they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
> translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
> the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
> Translation award.
> 
>   Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared in
> the great and internationally known magazine
> MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
> 
>   It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 
> 
>   Gabe
> 
>   At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
> 
>     I am forwarding this interesting and colored
> trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
>      
>     Anny
>      
>     "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from
> Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>     collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is
> newly available at
>     Jacket #25
> 
>      http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
> 
>     The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
> Paz and environs, in
>     search of the ghost of the singularly strange
> and brilliant poet, Jaime
>     Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
> historical and contemporary.
>     Hope some of you will take a look!
> 
>     Kent
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>    
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>   _______________________________________________
>   New-Poetry mailing list
>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>   http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> > _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 09:57:08 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:57:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040816090258.96858.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040816090258.96858.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>

So is the University of California publication listing a dummy listing?

I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another fraud after the 
Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud with poetry of such 
poor quality? Just asking.

Does show you one of the unintended negative consequences of accepting 
all this rotten poetry in exchange for some national or international 
sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a  campesino and boom 
automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump nostalgic 
midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural anomaly thrown in, it 
gains acceptance no matter how marginal all of them, especially the 
trivializers here in America are.

And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with show biz names, what 
do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) Simmons Def Poetry  ----  
on HBO? CP
 
Paul Murphy wrote:

>this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I thought
>the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
>doing with us?
>PM
>--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent himself
>>says just under my name that he and Gander wrote it
>>together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned Kent
>>since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
>>taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>information, 
>>
>>Anny
>>  From: Gabriel Gudding 
>>  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ;
>>New Poetry 
>>  Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
>>Johnson
>>
>>
>>  Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
>>Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are CO-translators
>>of Jaime Saenz.
>>
>>  Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
>>they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
>>translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
>>the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
>>Translation award.
>>
>>  Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared in
>>the great and internationally known magazine
>>MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
>>
>>  It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 
>>
>>  Gabe
>>
>>  At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>>
>>    I am forwarding this interesting and colored
>>trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
>>     
>>    Anny
>>     
>>    "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from
>>Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>>    collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is
>>newly available at
>>    Jacket #25
>>
>>     http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>>
>>    The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
>>Paz and environs, in
>>    search of the ghost of the singularly strange
>>and brilliant poet, Jaime
>>    Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
>>historical and contemporary.
>>    Hope some of you will take a look!
>>
>>    Kent
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    New-Poetry mailing list
>>    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>   
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  New-Poetry mailing list
>>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>    
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>      
>>>
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From clitophon  Mon Aug 16 10:49:39 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>

I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
pleasantly surprised.
On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
PM
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> So is the University of California publication
> listing a dummy listing?
> 
> I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another
> fraud after the 
> Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud
> with poetry of such 
> poor quality? Just asking.
> 
> Does show you one of the unintended negative
> consequences of accepting 
> all this rotten poetry in exchange for some national
> or international 
> sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a 
> campesino and boom 
> automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump
> nostalgic 
> midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural
> anomaly thrown in, it 
> gains acceptance no matter how marginal all of them,
> especially the 
> trivializers here in America are.
> 
> And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with
> show biz names, what 
> do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) Simmons
> Def Poetry  ----  
> on HBO? CP
>  
> Paul Murphy wrote:
> 
> >this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
> thought
> >the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
> >The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
> >Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
> >doing with us?
> >PM
> >--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
> himself
> >>says just under my name that he and Gander wrote
> it
> >>together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned
> Kent
> >>since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
> >>taking your time and for giving all kinds of
> >>information, 
> >>
> >>Anny
> >>  From: Gabriel Gudding 
> >>  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
> ;
> >>New Poetry 
> >>  Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
> >>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
> >>Johnson
> >>
> >>
> >>  Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
> >>Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are
> CO-translators
> >>of Jaime Saenz.
> >>
> >>  Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
> >>they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
> >>translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
> >>the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
> >>Translation award.
> >>
> >>  Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared
> in
> >>the great and internationally known magazine
> >>MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
> >>
> >>  It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 
> >>
> >>  Gabe
> >>
> >>  At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
> >>
> >>    I am forwarding this interesting and colored
> >>trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
> >>     
> >>    Anny
> >>     
> >>    "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes
> from
> >>Bolivia, June 20-30," a
> >>    collaboration between Forrest Gander and me,
> is
> >>newly available at
> >>    Jacket #25
> >>
> >>     http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
> >>
> >>    The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
> >>Paz and environs, in
> >>    search of the ghost of the singularly strange
> >>and brilliant poet, Jaime
> >>    Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
> >>historical and contemporary.
> >>    Hope some of you will take a look!
> >>
> >>    Kent
> >>   
> _______________________________________________
> >>    New-Poetry mailing list
> >>    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >>   
> >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  
> >
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >>  New-Poetry mailing list
> >>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>    
> >>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>New-Poetry mailing list
> >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >		
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >  
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
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From clitophon  Mon Aug 16 11:23:24 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wien 2
In-Reply-To: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040816152324.76918.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>

Heute Ich habe sehr Gro? Zahnschmerz, Ich rauche zu
viel.  Ich war in Wien mit Igor Stepanov auch.  Er ist
ein besser (sandwich maker) als pyhsiker.  Wien ist
schrecklich, ein (total crisis in the social services,
all the phones are kaputt.  A very dark place, one
legged beggars, all the things you loved and lived in
?The Third Man?are true.)  Igor has a little toaster,
excellent gouda on bread and then toasted.  The cafe
down the street charged me 18 euroes for a local call,
I protested, a HitlerJugend type thug put his arm
around me.  A good swivelling distance away, ice
settled in a glass.  These are economics of the
blackest market.  Everyone has changed to Handies or
is being forcepped to.  I got lost, it was the middle
of the night.  I yelled up to the balcony and somehow
the gargantuan Russian curmudgeon shouted hoarsely
back.  Yet more evidence that I have the luck of the
Devil or maybe so much bad luck that my good luck
seems amazing.  He recognised my screams and then
tried to feed me pickled gherkins, now almost like
currency in Russia where even shoelaces and spit are
worth very much more than the local dosh.  Beware the
rides of March, a very well known strassenbahn halt in
Wien.  The Fried Museum, also a well-known U-Bahn halt
where the theroes of Fraud were tossed and toasted
across and across the Platz.  Thredoniacial hushed
tomes and even more beggars, lamp-lit but everything
was squelched, you know.
Wien Deutsch is definitely Sud Deutsch.  On the way
back (but to where) stopped in M?nchen for the night. 
My heart stopped - not me - at Rohrbach, for Frau
Schweinimaus lives there, einen kleinen Romantischen
Frau mit drei Gro?en Hunds. 


		
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From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 11:00:15 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:00:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4120CBFF.4000303@ix.netcom.com>

Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he could bad enough to be 
Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this insatnce, its a fait accompli of 
talentlessness.

I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to come purchase his library 
of books. He said he had planned to write an Encyclopedia by himself, 
but was now old and had never gotten around to it. The books were 
dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the eccenticity of it it all was 
worthy of Herzog.

I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys discussed Def poetry 
before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
"Poetry is like just before it rains, really hard." Scan that, Ms. 
Perloff. CP

Paul Murphy wrote:

>I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>pleasantly surprised.
>On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>PM
>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>So is the University of California publication
>>listing a dummy listing?
>>
>>I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another
>>fraud after the 
>>Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud
>>with poetry of such 
>>poor quality? Just asking.
>>
>>Does show you one of the unintended negative
>>consequences of accepting 
>>all this rotten poetry in exchange for some national
>>or international 
>>sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a 
>>campesino and boom 
>>automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump
>>nostalgic 
>>midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural
>>anomaly thrown in, it 
>>gains acceptance no matter how marginal all of them,
>>especially the 
>>trivializers here in America are.
>>
>>And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with
>>show biz names, what 
>>do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) Simmons
>>Def Poetry  ----  
>>on HBO? CP
>> 
>>Paul Murphy wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
>>>      
>>>
>>thought
>>    
>>
>>>the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>>>The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>>>Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
>>>doing with us?
>>>PM
>>>--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
>>>>        
>>>>
>>himself
>>    
>>
>>>>says just under my name that he and Gander wrote
>>>>        
>>>>
>>it
>>    
>>
>>>>together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Kent
>>    
>>
>>>>since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
>>>>taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>>>information, 
>>>>
>>>>Anny
>>>> From: Gabriel Gudding 
>>>> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
>>>>        
>>>>
>>;
>>    
>>
>>>>New Poetry 
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
>>>>Johnson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
>>>>Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are
>>>>        
>>>>
>>CO-translators
>>    
>>
>>>>of Jaime Saenz.
>>>>
>>>> Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
>>>>they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
>>>>translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
>>>>the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
>>>>Translation award.
>>>>
>>>> Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared
>>>>        
>>>>
>>in
>>    
>>
>>>>the great and internationally known magazine
>>>>MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
>>>>
>>>> It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 
>>>>
>>>> Gabe
>>>>
>>>> At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   I am forwarding this interesting and colored
>>>>trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
>>>>    
>>>>   Anny
>>>>    
>>>>   "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes
>>>>        
>>>>
>>from
>>    
>>
>>>>Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>>>>   collaboration between Forrest Gander and me,
>>>>        
>>>>
>>is
>>    
>>
>>>>newly available at
>>>>   Jacket #25
>>>>
>>>>    http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>>>>
>>>>   The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
>>>>Paz and environs, in
>>>>   search of the ghost of the singularly strange
>>>>and brilliant poet, Jaime
>>>>   Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
>>>>historical and contemporary.
>>>>   Hope some of you will take a look!
>>>>
>>>>   Kent
>>>>  
>>>>        
>>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>    
>>
>>>>   New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>  
>>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>    
>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>		
>>>__________________________________
>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>>>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>	
>		
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 12:29:18 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:29:18 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4120CBFF.4000303@ix.netcom.com>
References: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
	<4120CBFF.4000303@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <4120E0DE.9070408@ix.netcom.com>

Well, let me take a break from packing books in this sweltering basement 
and offer a thought or two. When I watch Def Comedy Jam, which I do on 
occasion until I can't stand the the predictability of the inflections 
or solipsistic banality of the subject matter anymore, I'm reminded of 
the twin revolutions of the sixties---Civil Rights and the Anti-War 
Movement.

The Civil rights movement saw economic advancement and parity as a 
characteristic of the success of their  'revolutionary' movement. So 
anti-materialism was never as much a factor in the civil rights movement 
as it was in the anti-war movement where people often already in 
possession of economic comfort saw its rejection as 'revolutionary.'

Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand Russell Simmons is a 
clothes designer and certainly both the poets and the audience have 
taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways which reflect taste and 
money within the cultural setting. The perfection is so obvious it 
becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but for the kind of 
grittiness that informed the blues where its protagnonists really had 
something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to be in by saying your 
out in a way a major entertainment venue won't take seriously. No one 
will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on themselves and light it. 
Further, the poets, whose text sound like personalized monologues for 
high school auditions, have voice coaches and in some cases agents, 
hoping to follow the train of comics into mainstream entertainment.

Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by capitalist culture of 
raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an earnest atempt at a new 
mode of expression. Or is the culture already such, no matter its 
economic or ethnic roots, that no cooption is necessary, that an agent 
for change now means the 48 behind  $348,819.48.

R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:

> Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he could bad enough to 
> be Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this insatnce, its a fait 
> accompli of talentlessness.
>
> I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to come purchase his 
> library of books. He said he had planned to write an Encyclopedia by 
> himself, but was now old and had never gotten around to it. The books 
> were dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the eccenticity of it it 
> all was worthy of Herzog.
>
> I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys discussed Def poetry 
> before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
> "Poetry is like just before it rains, really hard." Scan that, Ms. 
> Perloff. CP
>
> Paul Murphy wrote:
>
>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>> pleasantly surprised.
>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>> PM
>> --- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> So is the University of California publication
>>> listing a dummy listing?
>>>
>>> I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another
>>> fraud after the Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud
>>> with poetry of such poor quality? Just asking.
>>>
>>> Does show you one of the unintended negative
>>> consequences of accepting all this rotten poetry in exchange for 
>>> some national
>>> or international sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a 
>>> campesino and boom automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump
>>> nostalgic midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural
>>> anomaly thrown in, it gains acceptance no matter how marginal all of 
>>> them,
>>> especially the trivializers here in America are.
>>>
>>> And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with
>>> show biz names, what do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) 
>>> Simmons
>>> Def Poetry  ----  on HBO? CP
>>>
>>> Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>> this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
>>>>     
>>>
>>> thought
>>>   
>>>
>>>> the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>>>> The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>>>> Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
>>>> doing with us?
>>>> PM
>>>> --- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>> Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> himself
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> says just under my name that he and Gander wrote
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> it
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> Kent
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
>>>>> taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>>>> information,
>>>>> Anny
>>>>> From: Gabriel Gudding To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> ;
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> New Poetry Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
>>>>> Johnson
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
>>>>> Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> CO-translators
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> of Jaime Saenz.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
>>>>> they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
>>>>> translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
>>>>> the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
>>>>> Translation award.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> in
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> the great and internationally known magazine
>>>>> MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET.
>>>>> Gabe
>>>>>
>>>>> At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   I am forwarding this interesting and colored
>>>>> trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list,      Anny
>>>>>      "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> from
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>>>>>   collaboration between Forrest Gander and me,
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> is
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> newly available at
>>>>>   Jacket #25
>>>>>
>>>>>    http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>   The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
>>>>> Paz and environs, in
>>>>>   search of the ghost of the singularly strange
>>>>> and brilliant poet, Jaime
>>>>>   Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
>>>>> historical and contemporary.
>>>>>   Hope some of you will take a look!
>>>>>
>>>>>   Kent
>>>>>  
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>   
>>>
>>>>>   New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>  
>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>   
>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    
>>>>>>         
>>>>>
>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>> __________________________________
>>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>>> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>>>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>        
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>  
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 12:58:59 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:58:59 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4120E0DE.9070408@ix.netcom.com>
References: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>	<4120CBFF.4000303@ix.netcom.com>
	<4120E0DE.9070408@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <4120E7D3.6040405@ix.netcom.com>

Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded. Sent by accident. CP

R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:

> Well, let me take a break from packing books in this sweltering 
> basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch Def Comedy Jam, 
> which I do on occasion until I can't stand the the predictability of 
> the inflections or solipsistic banality of the subject matter anymore, 
> I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the sixties---Civil Rights and 
> the Anti-War Movement.
>
> The Civil rights movement saw economic advancement and parity as a 
> characteristic of the success of their  'revolutionary' movement. So 
> anti-materialism was never as much a factor in the civil rights 
> movement as it was in the anti-war movement where people often already 
> in possession of economic comfort saw its rejection as 'revolutionary.'
>
> Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand Russell Simmons is a 
> clothes designer and certainly both the poets and the audience have 
> taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways which reflect taste and 
> money within the cultural setting. The perfection is so obvious it 
> becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but for the kind of 
> grittiness that informed the blues where its protagnonists really had 
> something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to be in by saying your 
> out in a way a major entertainment venue won't take seriously. No one 
> will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on themselves and light 
> it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like personalized monologues 
> for high school auditions, have voice coaches and in some cases 
> agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into mainstream 
> entertainment.
>
> Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by capitalist culture of 
> raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an earnest atempt at a new 
> mode of expression. Or is the culture already such, no matter its 
> economic or ethnic roots, that no cooption is necessary, that an agent 
> for change now means the 48 behind  $348,819.48.
>
> R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
>
>> Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he could bad enough to 
>> be Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this insatnce, its a fait 
>> accompli of talentlessness.
>>
>> I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to come purchase his 
>> library of books. He said he had planned to write an Encyclopedia by 
>> himself, but was now old and had never gotten around to it. The books 
>> were dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the eccenticity of it it 
>> all was worthy of Herzog.
>>
>> I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys discussed Def poetry 
>> before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
>> "Poetry is like just before it rains, really hard." Scan that, Ms. 
>> Perloff. CP
>>
>> Paul Murphy wrote:
>>
>>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>>> pleasantly surprised.
>>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>>> PM
>>> --- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>> So is the University of California publication
>>>> listing a dummy listing?
>>>>
>>>> I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another
>>>> fraud after the Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud
>>>> with poetry of such poor quality? Just asking.
>>>>
>>>> Does show you one of the unintended negative
>>>> consequences of accepting all this rotten poetry in exchange for 
>>>> some national
>>>> or international sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a 
>>>> campesino and boom automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump
>>>> nostalgic midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural
>>>> anomaly thrown in, it gains acceptance no matter how marginal all 
>>>> of them,
>>>> especially the trivializers here in America are.
>>>>
>>>> And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with
>>>> show biz names, what do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) 
>>>> Simmons
>>>> Def Poetry  ----  on HBO? CP
>>>>
>>>> Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
>>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thought
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>>>>> The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>>>>> Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
>>>>> doing with us?
>>>>> PM
>>>>> --- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> himself
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> says just under my name that he and Gander wrote
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> it
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Kent
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
>>>>>> taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>>>>> information,
>>>>>> Anny
>>>>>> From: Gabriel Gudding To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & 
>>>>>> Views
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ;
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> New Poetry Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
>>>>>> Johnson
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
>>>>>> Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> CO-translators
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> of Jaime Saenz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
>>>>>> they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
>>>>>> translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
>>>>>> the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
>>>>>> Translation award.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> the great and internationally known magazine
>>>>>> MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET.
>>>>>> Gabe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   I am forwarding this interesting and colored
>>>>>> trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list,      Anny
>>>>>>      "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> from
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>>>>>>   collaboration between Forrest Gander and me,
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> is
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> newly available at
>>>>>>   Jacket #25
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
>>>>>> Paz and environs, in
>>>>>>   search of the ghost of the singularly strange
>>>>>> and brilliant poet, Jaime
>>>>>>   Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
>>>>>> historical and contemporary.
>>>>>>   Hope some of you will take a look!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Kent
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>>   New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>>>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        __________________________________
>>>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>>>> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>>>>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>            __________________________________
>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
>>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From gmguddi  Mon Aug 16 16:58:23 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:58:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>
	<20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>

Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted to touch on yr word 
"fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than all that: the 
Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too tongue-in-cheek to be fraudulent 
--  but a giant and genuine question -- and not so much a question about 
WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone else etc etc,but a question about WHAT. The 
"Who" part of the author stuff, for me, was a brief shockwave in the 
Yasusuda affair: I think the aftershocks, for me, are more of the WHAT 
variety: what is the nature of literary reverence, author function, poetry 
as cultural commentary, the means by which cultural capital is condition, 
compounded -- and ultimately -- confounded.

And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and Kent, both real people, 
are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime Saenz, referenced by many other 
writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found" -- locatable -- in libraries.

Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something (I think) that subtends 
all writing -- and I find myself grateful that every so often at least we 
are able to "question" the works before us -- question not just their 
aesthetic texture and viability, but their relations to real people, real 
ideas, and felt situations. I think this has been a great gift to this age 
-- and I thank whoever it was that shoved it under our noses.

But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift, is of a more "traditional" 
variety: a straight-up translation gig.

gabe

At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
>I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>pleasantly surprised.
>On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>PM





From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 16:49:21 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:49:21 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>
References: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>	<20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
	<6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <41211DD1.9040201@ix.netcom.com>

Nah. They're frauds. And done for the same venal reasons any hustler 
might bring into play, say at def poetry or the State Department, no 
matter how purdy you talk 'em up. It's called an angle or spin. CP

Gabriel Gudding wrote:

> Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted to touch on yr word 
> "fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than all that: 
> the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too tongue-in-cheek to be 
> fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question -- and not so much a 
> question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone else etc etc,but a 
> question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author stuff, for me, was a 
> brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think the aftershocks, for 
> me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the nature of literary 
> reverence, author function, poetry as cultural commentary, the means 
> by which cultural capital is condition, compounded -- and ultimately 
> -- confounded.
>
> And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and Kent, both real 
> people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime Saenz, referenced by many 
> other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found" -- locatable -- in 
> libraries.
>
> Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something (I think) that 
> subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful that every so often 
> at least we are able to "question" the works before us -- question not 
> just their aesthetic texture and viability, but their relations to 
> real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I think this has been a 
> great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it was that shoved it 
> under our noses.
>
> But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift, is of a more 
> "traditional" variety: a straight-up translation gig.
>
> gabe
>
> At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
>
>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>> pleasantly surprised.
>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>> PM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 17:10:20 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:10:20 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>
References: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>	<20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
	<6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <412122BC.9090504@ix.netcom.com>

Let me add that its fraud and a liars charm that keeps Kent rockin' the 
tiny tub of poetry. He's so pixy/pucksy disingenuous. Anytime you hear 
him or others refer to his frauds as legitimate, serious, genuine, 
original or not a complex charade, you're automatically disinterested 
and disappointed. That's what everybody else is for. Given the kind of 
corn field earnestness that drives so much crap nowadays, Kent's a hoot. 
A lousy poet, but never boring except when he's trying to write in the 
tone of Forrest Gander or Yasusada or Jaime Saenz. Check out that piece 
of crap about his son and he fishing. Kent's strength is in obliquely 
ridiculing poetry. And its his most genuine personality trait.

You're gonna fuck up his game if you try the verbal academic canard 
thing, the way you fuck up say Taggart trying to use the Langpo dress 
pattern. CP  

Gabriel Gudding wrote:

> Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted to touch on yr word 
> "fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than all that: 
> the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too tongue-in-cheek to be 
> fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question -- and not so much a 
> question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone else etc etc,but a 
> question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author stuff, for me, was a 
> brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think the aftershocks, for 
> me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the nature of literary 
> reverence, author function, poetry as cultural commentary, the means 
> by which cultural capital is condition, compounded -- and ultimately 
> -- confounded.
>
> And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and Kent, both real 
> people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime Saenz, referenced by many 
> other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found" -- locatable -- in 
> libraries.
>
> Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something (I think) that 
> subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful that every so often 
> at least we are able to "question" the works before us -- question not 
> just their aesthetic texture and viability, but their relations to 
> real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I think this has been a 
> great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it was that shoved it 
> under our noses.
>
> But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift, is of a more 
> "traditional" variety: a straight-up translation gig.
>
> gabe
>
> At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
>
>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>> pleasantly surprised.
>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>> PM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 05:58:56 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 02:58:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <41211DD1.9040201@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040817095856.64710.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>

so Kent is able to formulate 2 questions beginning
with ?wh?...
wh next?
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> Nah. They're frauds. And done for the same venal
> reasons any hustler 
> might bring into play, say at def poetry or the
> State Department, no 
> matter how purdy you talk 'em up. It's called an
> angle or spin. CP
> 
> Gabriel Gudding wrote:
> 
> > Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted
> to touch on yr word 
> > "fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more
> complicated than all that: 
> > the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too
> tongue-in-cheek to be 
> > fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question --
> and not so much a 
> > question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone
> else etc etc,but a 
> > question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author
> stuff, for me, was a 
> > brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think
> the aftershocks, for 
> > me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the
> nature of literary 
> > reverence, author function, poetry as cultural
> commentary, the means 
> > by which cultural capital is condition, compounded
> -- and ultimately 
> > -- confounded.
> >
> > And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and
> Kent, both real 
> > people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime
> Saenz, referenced by many 
> > other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found"
> -- locatable -- in 
> > libraries.
> >
> > Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something
> (I think) that 
> > subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful
> that every so often 
> > at least we are able to "question" the works
> before us -- question not 
> > just their aesthetic texture and viability, but
> their relations to 
> > real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I
> think this has been a 
> > great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it
> was that shoved it 
> > under our noses.
> >
> > But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift,
> is of a more 
> > "traditional" variety: a straight-up translation
> gig.
> >
> > gabe
> >
> > At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
> >
> >> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to
> be
> >> pleasantly surprised.
> >> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
> >> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
> >> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
> to
> >> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
> >> PM
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 06:02:14 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:02:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <412122BC.9090504@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040817100214.75777.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>

I?m sick of seriousness. I lost all belief in it when
meeting John Heath-Stubbs in London for the first
time.  That?s why I came to Berlin.  Now I am
surrounded by the ghosts of all the people he talks
about so irrelevantly.  People like TS Auden, James
Isherwood, William Joyce, Francis Stuart.  Can anyone
tell me why Stuart wasn?t hung after WW2?  
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> Let me add that its fraud and a liars charm that
> keeps Kent rockin' the 
> tiny tub of poetry. He's so pixy/pucksy
> disingenuous. Anytime you hear 
> him or others refer to his frauds as legitimate,
> serious, genuine, 
> original or not a complex charade, you're
> automatically disinterested 
> and disappointed. That's what everybody else is for.
> Given the kind of 
> corn field earnestness that drives so much crap
> nowadays, Kent's a hoot. 
> A lousy poet, but never boring except when he's
> trying to write in the 
> tone of Forrest Gander or Yasusada or Jaime Saenz.
> Check out that piece 
> of crap about his son and he fishing. Kent's
> strength is in obliquely 
> ridiculing poetry. And its his most genuine
> personality trait.
> 
> You're gonna fuck up his game if you try the verbal
> academic canard 
> thing, the way you fuck up say Taggart trying to use
> the Langpo dress 
> pattern. CP  
> 
> Gabriel Gudding wrote:
> 
> > Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted
> to touch on yr word 
> > "fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more
> complicated than all that: 
> > the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too
> tongue-in-cheek to be 
> > fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question --
> and not so much a 
> > question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone
> else etc etc,but a 
> > question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author
> stuff, for me, was a 
> > brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think
> the aftershocks, for 
> > me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the
> nature of literary 
> > reverence, author function, poetry as cultural
> commentary, the means 
> > by which cultural capital is condition, compounded
> -- and ultimately 
> > -- confounded.
> >
> > And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and
> Kent, both real 
> > people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime
> Saenz, referenced by many 
> > other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found"
> -- locatable -- in 
> > libraries.
> >
> > Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something
> (I think) that 
> > subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful
> that every so often 
> > at least we are able to "question" the works
> before us -- question not 
> > just their aesthetic texture and viability, but
> their relations to 
> > real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I
> think this has been a 
> > great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it
> was that shoved it 
> > under our noses.
> >
> > But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift,
> is of a more 
> > "traditional" variety: a straight-up translation
> gig.
> >
> > gabe
> >
> > At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
> >
> >> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to
> be
> >> pleasantly surprised.
> >> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
> >> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
> >> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
> to
> >> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
> >> PM
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 06:06:28 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4120E7D3.6040405@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>

this is the worst writing of all time.  Have your air
conditioning checked, you may be having difficulty
breathing.  If you suddenly asphixiate try to release
oxygen by bending your right leg around your neck and
gently squeezing.  Then put a bin bag over your head,
pretend to masturbate vigorously and hopefully by this
time the emergency services will have arrived.  Then
(hopefully) you?ll be on a life section, deprived of
access to the internet and thereby unable to
perpetrate anymore of this dismal verbal anal
retentiveness.
PM
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded. Sent
> by accident. CP
> 
> R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
> 
> > Well, let me take a break from packing books in
> this sweltering 
> > basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch
> Def Comedy Jam, 
> > which I do on occasion until I can't stand the the
> predictability of 
> > the inflections or solipsistic banality of the
> subject matter anymore, 
> > I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the
> sixties---Civil Rights and 
> > the Anti-War Movement.
> >
> > The Civil rights movement saw economic advancement
> and parity as a 
> > characteristic of the success of their 
> 'revolutionary' movement. So 
> > anti-materialism was never as much a factor in the
> civil rights 
> > movement as it was in the anti-war movement where
> people often already 
> > in possession of economic comfort saw its
> rejection as 'revolutionary.'
> >
> > Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand
> Russell Simmons is a 
> > clothes designer and certainly both the poets and
> the audience have 
> > taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways
> which reflect taste and 
> > money within the cultural setting. The perfection
> is so obvious it 
> > becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but
> for the kind of 
> > grittiness that informed the blues where its
> protagnonists really had 
> > something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to
> be in by saying your 
> > out in a way a major entertainment venue won't
> take seriously. No one 
> > will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on
> themselves and light 
> > it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like
> personalized monologues 
> > for high school auditions, have voice coaches and
> in some cases 
> > agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into
> mainstream 
> > entertainment.
> >
> > Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by
> capitalist culture of 
> > raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an
> earnest atempt at a new 
> > mode of expression. Or is the culture already
> such, no matter its 
> > economic or ethnic roots, that no cooption is
> necessary, that an agent 
> > for change now means the 48 behind  $348,819.48.
> >
> > R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
> >
> >> Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he
> could bad enough to 
> >> be Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this
> insatnce, its a fait 
> >> accompli of talentlessness.
> >>
> >> I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to
> come purchase his 
> >> library of books. He said he had planned to write
> an Encyclopedia by 
> >> himself, but was now old and had never gotten
> around to it. The books 
> >> were dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the
> eccenticity of it it 
> >> all was worthy of Herzog.
> >>
> >> I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys
> discussed Def poetry 
> >> before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
> >> "Poetry is like just before it rains, really
> hard." Scan that, Ms. 
> >> Perloff. CP
> >>
> >> Paul Murphy wrote:
> >>
> >>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait
> to be
> >>> pleasantly surprised.
> >>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a
> cinema
> >>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
> >>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
> to
> >>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
> >>> PM
> >>> --- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli"
> <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>> So is the University of California publication
> >>>> listing a dummy listing?
> >>>>
> >>>> I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of
> another
> >>>> fraud after the Yasusada debacle. Would they
> publish such a fraud
> >>>> with poetry of such poor quality? Just asking.
> >>>>
> >>>> Does show you one of the unintended negative
> >>>> consequences of accepting all this rotten
> poetry in exchange for 
> >>>> some national
> >>>> or international sentimental syndicalism. A
> Japanese survivor; a 
> >>>> campesino and boom automatically if the poetry
> sounds like some plump
> >>>> nostalgic midwesterner wrote it with an
> occasional cultural
> >>>> anomaly thrown in, it gains acceptance no
> matter how marginal all 
> >>>> of them,
> >>>> especially the trivializers here in America
> are.
> >>>>
> >>>> And while were on the topic of rotten poetry
> with
> >>>> show biz names, what do people on this list
> think of  Robert(sic) 
> >>>> Simmons
> >>>> Def Poetry  ----  on HBO? CP
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul Murphy wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> thought
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
> >>>>> The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
> >>>>> Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is
> currently
> >>>>> doing with us?
> >>>>> PM
> >>>>> --- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> himself
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>>> says just under my name that he and Gander
> wrote
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> it
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>>> together, I hate repetitions. I only
> mentioned
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Kent
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>>> since the message is signed by him. But
> thanks for
> >>>>>> taking your time and for giving all kinds of
> >>>>>> information,
> >>>>>> Anny
> >>>>>> From: Gabriel Gudding To: NewPoetry:
> Contemporary Poetry News & 
> >>>>>> Views
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> ;
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>>> New Poetry Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004
> 11:42 
=== message truncated ===



		
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From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 06:52:41 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:52:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Daimler City\Sony Centre
In-Reply-To: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040817105241.13643.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com>

these are 2 complexes of tall buildings nr Potsdamer
Platz.  The wall intersected through this area, indeed
small sections have been preserved.  It seems to have
been built with steel skeleton filled with concrete, a
very typical process of manufacture.  Joseph Beuys
famously remarked that the wall was 18 inches too low.
 The buildings in the area are gargantuan structures
filled with glass.  There is no intimation of a war
against terror for the buildings seem built with
terrorists in mind so seemingly vulnerable they are to
bombs & Co.  However I noticed that there is a visible
checkpoint and low walls nr the American Embassy and
the British Embassy is blocked off too.  I walked down
the street where the British Embassy is and a
policeman seemed to be having some incredible
incantation.  I stopped and watched him for 2 minutes.
 I think he must have been saying some old Indian
prayer, the one that begins ?getta me out of here...?
So, here I am undermining national security and blowng
holes through the war against terror.  Another thing
to say is that Berlin is just incredibly cheap.  In
fact it is possible to live here on practically
nothing, in fact nothing is a great deal in Berlin, a
poor city compared with other Western European
national capitals.  Because of the relatively late
entry of Germany into the hall of nations (also the
name of my hotel), its easy to see how a whacko
provincial movement of crackbrained one-idea loonatics
could have pre-empted my attempt at a coup.  (namely
running past Daimler City with a red flag, joost like
that bit in ?Modern Times?....)
PM  


	
		
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From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 08:48:30 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 05:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dritten Reich
In-Reply-To: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040817124830.97874.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>

I forgot, in Germany a great deal of political
correctness circulates about the Dritten Reich.  If
Germans are now so politically correct about their
past, why didn?t they prevent the Dritten Reich?  Is
it possibly because they were defeated?  If it takes
political defeat to make embarrassment, it can?t
really be a very profound embarrassment since
presumably if the Dritten Reich had won - but then
questions like that are meaningless really.  To my
mind Hitler was just as capable a politician as
Churchill, Roosevelt and possibly more so than Stalin.
 And if you want evidence of their human rights
abuses, then they aren?t difficult to find because
their acts stain the conscience of humanity
everywhere, from Ireland to India, from South Africa
to Mexico, from Siberia to Georgia.  What are we left
with then?  Might is right?  Nazi Germany was defeated
because it was militarily not morally weaker and
N?rnburg is the perfect example of victor?s justice. 
We could move onto a world without force and that can
only be achieved through new technological and
scientific discoveries, something that would give
every person on the planet their personal hydrogen
bomb.  Then who would be brave enough to use it since
it would mean mutually assured destruction?  Just
underlines the perfect futility of hatred, doesn?t it?
PM


		
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From alphavil  Tue Aug 17 08:19:38 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:19:38 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040817100214.75777.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817100214.75777.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4121F7DA.7060205@ix.netcom.com>

<I?m sick of seriousness.>

The news of your illness has sent shockwaves through the colonies. CP



Paul Murphy wrote:

>I?m sick of seriousness. I lost all belief in it when
>meeting John Heath-Stubbs in London for the first
>time.  That?s why I came to Berlin.  Now I am
>surrounded by the ghosts of all the people he talks
>about so irrelevantly.  People like TS Auden, James
>Isherwood, William Joyce, Francis Stuart.  Can anyone
>tell me why Stuart wasn?t hung after WW2?  
>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Let me add that its fraud and a liars charm that
>>keeps Kent rockin' the 
>>tiny tub of poetry. He's so pixy/pucksy
>>disingenuous. Anytime you hear 
>>him or others refer to his frauds as legitimate,
>>serious, genuine, 
>>original or not a complex charade, you're
>>automatically disinterested 
>>and disappointed. That's what everybody else is for.
>>Given the kind of 
>>corn field earnestness that drives so much crap
>>nowadays, Kent's a hoot. 
>>A lousy poet, but never boring except when he's
>>trying to write in the 
>>tone of Forrest Gander or Yasusada or Jaime Saenz.
>>Check out that piece 
>>of crap about his son and he fishing. Kent's
>>strength is in obliquely 
>>ridiculing poetry. And its his most genuine
>>personality trait.
>>
>>You're gonna fuck up his game if you try the verbal
>>academic canard 
>>thing, the way you fuck up say Taggart trying to use
>>the Langpo dress 
>>pattern. CP  
>>
>>Gabriel Gudding wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted
>>>      
>>>
>>to touch on yr word 
>>    
>>
>>>"fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more
>>>      
>>>
>>complicated than all that: 
>>    
>>
>>>the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too
>>>      
>>>
>>tongue-in-cheek to be 
>>    
>>
>>>fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question --
>>>      
>>>
>>and not so much a 
>>    
>>
>>>question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone
>>>      
>>>
>>else etc etc,but a 
>>    
>>
>>>question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author
>>>      
>>>
>>stuff, for me, was a 
>>    
>>
>>>brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think
>>>      
>>>
>>the aftershocks, for 
>>    
>>
>>>me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the
>>>      
>>>
>>nature of literary 
>>    
>>
>>>reverence, author function, poetry as cultural
>>>      
>>>
>>commentary, the means 
>>    
>>
>>>by which cultural capital is condition, compounded
>>>      
>>>
>>-- and ultimately 
>>    
>>
>>>-- confounded.
>>>
>>>And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and
>>>      
>>>
>>Kent, both real 
>>    
>>
>>>people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime
>>>      
>>>
>>Saenz, referenced by many 
>>    
>>
>>>other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found"
>>>      
>>>
>>-- locatable -- in 
>>    
>>
>>>libraries.
>>>
>>>Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something
>>>      
>>>
>>(I think) that 
>>    
>>
>>>subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful
>>>      
>>>
>>that every so often 
>>    
>>
>>>at least we are able to "question" the works
>>>      
>>>
>>before us -- question not 
>>    
>>
>>>just their aesthetic texture and viability, but
>>>      
>>>
>>their relations to 
>>    
>>
>>>real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I
>>>      
>>>
>>think this has been a 
>>    
>>
>>>great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it
>>>      
>>>
>>was that shoved it 
>>    
>>
>>>under our noses.
>>>
>>>But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift,
>>>      
>>>
>>is of a more 
>>    
>>
>>>"traditional" variety: a straight-up translation
>>>      
>>>
>>gig.
>>    
>>
>>>gabe
>>>
>>>At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>be
>>    
>>
>>>>pleasantly surprised.
>>>>On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>>>>showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>>>>Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
>>>>        
>>>>
>>to
>>    
>>
>>>>perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>>>>PM
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
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>Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From alphavil  Tue Aug 17 08:26:08 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:26:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4121F960.60607@ix.netcom.com>

<this is the worst writing of all time.>

You must have the latest Guinness. Mine lists a P. Murphy. I guess you failed to read the subsequent prohibition. Hope this didn't increase your delicate state as your banal suasions were transforming the colonies. Today, Newpoetry, tomorrow The New Yorker. CP 



Paul Murphy wrote:

>this is the worst writing of all time.  Have your air
>conditioning checked, you may be having difficulty
>breathing.  If you suddenly asphixiate try to release
>oxygen by bending your right leg around your neck and
>gently squeezing.  Then put a bin bag over your head,
>pretend to masturbate vigorously and hopefully by this
>time the emergency services will have arrived.  Then
>(hopefully) you?ll be on a life section, deprived of
>access to the internet and thereby unable to
>perpetrate anymore of this dismal verbal anal
>retentiveness.
>PM
>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded. Sent
>>by accident. CP
>>
>>R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Well, let me take a break from packing books in
>>>      
>>>
>>this sweltering 
>>    
>>
>>>basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch
>>>      
>>>
>>Def Comedy Jam, 
>>    
>>
>>>which I do on occasion until I can't stand the the
>>>      
>>>
>>predictability of 
>>    
>>
>>>the inflections or solipsistic banality of the
>>>      
>>>
>>subject matter anymore, 
>>    
>>
>>>I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the
>>>      
>>>
>>sixties---Civil Rights and 
>>    
>>
>>>the Anti-War Movement.
>>>
>>>The Civil rights movement saw economic advancement
>>>      
>>>
>>and parity as a 
>>    
>>
>>>characteristic of the success of their 
>>>      
>>>
>>'revolutionary' movement. So 
>>    
>>
>>>anti-materialism was never as much a factor in the
>>>      
>>>
>>civil rights 
>>    
>>
>>>movement as it was in the anti-war movement where
>>>      
>>>
>>people often already 
>>    
>>
>>>in possession of economic comfort saw its
>>>      
>>>
>>rejection as 'revolutionary.'
>>    
>>
>>>Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand
>>>      
>>>
>>Russell Simmons is a 
>>    
>>
>>>clothes designer and certainly both the poets and
>>>      
>>>
>>the audience have 
>>    
>>
>>>taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways
>>>      
>>>
>>which reflect taste and 
>>    
>>
>>>money within the cultural setting. The perfection
>>>      
>>>
>>is so obvious it 
>>    
>>
>>>becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but
>>>      
>>>
>>for the kind of 
>>    
>>
>>>grittiness that informed the blues where its
>>>      
>>>
>>protagnonists really had 
>>    
>>
>>>something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to
>>>      
>>>
>>be in by saying your 
>>    
>>
>>>out in a way a major entertainment venue won't
>>>      
>>>
>>take seriously. No one 
>>    
>>
>>>will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on
>>>      
>>>
>>themselves and light 
>>    
>>
>>>it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like
>>>      
>>>
>>personalized monologues 
>>    
>>
>>>for high school auditions, have voice coaches and
>>>      
>>>
>>in some cases 
>>    
>>
>>>agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into
>>>      
>>>
>>mainstream 
>>    
>>
>>>entertainment.
>>>
>>>Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by
>>>      
>>>
>>capitalist culture of 
>>    
>>
>>>raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an
>>>      
>>>
>>earnest atempt at a new 
>>    
>>
>>>mode of expression. Or is the culture already
>>>      
>>>
>>such, no matter its 
>>    
>>
>>>economic or ethnic roots, that no cooption is
>>>      
>>>
>>necessary, that an agent 
>>    
>>
>>>for change now means the 48 behind  $348,819.48.
>>>
>>>R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he
>>>>        
>>>>
>>could bad enough to 
>>    
>>
>>>>be Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this
>>>>        
>>>>
>>insatnce, its a fait 
>>    
>>
>>>>accompli of talentlessness.
>>>>
>>>>I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>come purchase his 
>>    
>>
>>>>library of books. He said he had planned to write
>>>>        
>>>>
>>an Encyclopedia by 
>>    
>>
>>>>himself, but was now old and had never gotten
>>>>        
>>>>
>>around to it. The books 
>>    
>>
>>>>were dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the
>>>>        
>>>>
>>eccenticity of it it 
>>    
>>
>>>>all was worthy of Herzog.
>>>>
>>>>I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys
>>>>        
>>>>
>>discussed Def poetry 
>>    
>>
>>>>before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
>>>>"Poetry is like just before it rains, really
>>>>        
>>>>
>>hard." Scan that, Ms. 
>>    
>>
>>>>Perloff. CP
>>>>
>>>>Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>to be
>>    
>>
>>>>>pleasantly surprised.
>>>>>On holiday here in Berlin and just found a
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>cinema
>>    
>>
>>>>>showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>>>>>Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>to
>>    
>>
>>>>>perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>>>>>PM
>>>>>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli"
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>><alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>>    
>>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>So is the University of California publication
>>>>>>listing a dummy listing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>another
>>    
>>
>>>>>>fraud after the Yasusada debacle. Would they
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>publish such a fraud
>>    
>>
>>>>>>with poetry of such poor quality? Just asking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does show you one of the unintended negative
>>>>>>consequences of accepting all this rotten
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>poetry in exchange for 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>some national
>>>>>>or international sentimental syndicalism. A
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>Japanese survivor; a 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>campesino and boom automatically if the poetry
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>sounds like some plump
>>    
>>
>>>>>>nostalgic midwesterner wrote it with an
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>occasional cultural
>>    
>>
>>>>>>anomaly thrown in, it gains acceptance no
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>matter how marginal all 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>of them,
>>>>>>especially the trivializers here in America
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>are.
>>    
>>
>>>>>>And while were on the topic of rotten poetry
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>with
>>    
>>
>>>>>>show biz names, what do people on this list
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>think of  Robert(sic) 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>Simmons
>>>>>>Def Poetry  ----  on HBO? CP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>thought
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>>>>>>>The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>>>>>>>Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>currently
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>doing with us?
>>>>>>>PM
>>>>>>>--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>himself
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>says just under my name that he and Gander
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>wrote
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>it
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>together, I hate repetitions. I only
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>mentioned
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Kent
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>since the message is signed by him. But
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>thanks for
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>>>>>>>information,
>>>>>>>>Anny
>>>>>>>>From: Gabriel Gudding To: NewPoetry:
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>Contemporary Poetry News & 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>Views
>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>;
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>New Poetry Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>11:42 
>>    
>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 09:01:20 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 06:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4121F960.60607@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040817130120.43699.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>

so instead of being given a life section you?ve been
made the Mayor of New York!
well, I won?t tell anyone (about the bin bag...)
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> <this is the worst writing of all time.>
> 
> You must have the latest Guinness. Mine lists a P.
> Murphy. I guess you failed to read the subsequent
> prohibition. Hope this didn't increase your delicate
> state as your banal suasions were transforming the
> colonies. Today, Newpoetry, tomorrow The New Yorker.
> CP 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Murphy wrote:
> 
> >this is the worst writing of all time.  Have your
> air
> >conditioning checked, you may be having difficulty
> >breathing.  If you suddenly asphixiate try to
> release
> >oxygen by bending your right leg around your neck
> and
> >gently squeezing.  Then put a bin bag over your
> head,
> >pretend to masturbate vigorously and hopefully by
> this
> >time the emergency services will have arrived. 
> Then
> >(hopefully) you?ll be on a life section, deprived
> of
> >access to the internet and thereby unable to
> >perpetrate anymore of this dismal verbal anal
> >retentiveness.
> >PM
> >--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded.
> Sent
> >>by accident. CP
> >>
> >>R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Well, let me take a break from packing books in
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>this sweltering 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Def Comedy Jam, 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>which I do on occasion until I can't stand the
> the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>predictability of 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>the inflections or solipsistic banality of the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>subject matter anymore, 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>sixties---Civil Rights and 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>the Anti-War Movement.
> >>>
> >>>The Civil rights movement saw economic
> advancement
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>and parity as a 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>characteristic of the success of their 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>'revolutionary' movement. So 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>anti-materialism was never as much a factor in
> the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>civil rights 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>movement as it was in the anti-war movement where
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>people often already 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>in possession of economic comfort saw its
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>rejection as 'revolutionary.'
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Russell Simmons is a 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>clothes designer and certainly both the poets and
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>the audience have 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>which reflect taste and 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>money within the cultural setting. The perfection
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>is so obvious it 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>for the kind of 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>grittiness that informed the blues where its
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>protagnonists really had 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>be in by saying your 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>out in a way a major entertainment venue won't
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>take seriously. No one 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>themselves and light 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>personalized monologues 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>for high school auditions, have voice coaches and
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>in some cases 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>mainstream 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>entertainment.
> >>>
> >>>Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>capitalist culture of 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>earnest atempt at a new 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>mode of expression. Or is the culture already
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>such, no matter its 
> >>    
> 
=== message truncated ===



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 



From alphavil  Tue Aug 17 09:00:56 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:00:56 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040817130120.43699.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817130120.43699.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41220188.1010003@ix.netcom.com>

Ah! The twin fangs of NY are no more!
But their spirits stab on in their illustrious mayor.
---Colonel 'Pop' Buell

Paul Murphy wrote:

>so instead of being given a life section you?ve been
>made the Mayor of New York!
>well, I won?t tell anyone (about the bin bag...)
>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>><this is the worst writing of all time.>
>>
>>You must have the latest Guinness. Mine lists a P.
>>Murphy. I guess you failed to read the subsequent
>>prohibition. Hope this didn't increase your delicate
>>state as your banal suasions were transforming the
>>colonies. Today, Newpoetry, tomorrow The New Yorker.
>>CP 
>>
>>
>>
>>Paul Murphy wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>this is the worst writing of all time.  Have your
>>>      
>>>
>>air
>>    
>>
>>>conditioning checked, you may be having difficulty
>>>breathing.  If you suddenly asphixiate try to
>>>      
>>>
>>release
>>    
>>
>>>oxygen by bending your right leg around your neck
>>>      
>>>
>>and
>>    
>>
>>>gently squeezing.  Then put a bin bag over your
>>>      
>>>
>>head,
>>    
>>
>>>pretend to masturbate vigorously and hopefully by
>>>      
>>>
>>this
>>    
>>
>>>time the emergency services will have arrived. 
>>>      
>>>
>>Then
>>    
>>
>>>(hopefully) you?ll be on a life section, deprived
>>>      
>>>
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>access to the internet and thereby unable to
>>>perpetrate anymore of this dismal verbal anal
>>>retentiveness.
>>>PM
>>>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Sent
>>    
>>
>>>>by accident. CP
>>>>
>>>>R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Well, let me take a break from packing books in
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>this sweltering 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Def Comedy Jam, 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>which I do on occasion until I can't stand the
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>predictability of 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>the inflections or solipsistic banality of the
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>subject matter anymore, 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>sixties---Civil Rights and 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>the Anti-War Movement.
>>>>>
>>>>>The Civil rights movement saw economic
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>advancement
>>    
>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>and parity as a 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>characteristic of the success of their 
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>'revolutionary' movement. So 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>anti-materialism was never as much a factor in
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>civil rights 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>movement as it was in the anti-war movement where
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>people often already 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>in possession of economic comfort saw its
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>rejection as 'revolutionary.'
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Russell Simmons is a 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>clothes designer and certainly both the poets and
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>the audience have 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>which reflect taste and 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>money within the cultural setting. The perfection
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>is so obvious it 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>for the kind of 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>grittiness that informed the blues where its
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>protagnonists really had 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>be in by saying your 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>out in a way a major entertainment venue won't
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>take seriously. No one 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>themselves and light 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>personalized monologues 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>for high school auditions, have voice coaches and
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>in some cases 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>mainstream 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>entertainment.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>capitalist culture of 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>earnest atempt at a new 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>mode of expression. Or is the culture already
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>such, no matter its 
>>>>   
>>>>        
>>>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From grahamd  Tue Aug 17 13:55:18 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:55:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bosh & Flapdoodle
Message-ID: <BD47B0B6.A934%grahamd@ripon.edu>

A. R. Ammons fans should surf on over to Poetry Daily, where a
mini-symposium is in progress, featuring previously unpublished poems.
Excerpts from a tribute issue of *Epoch*, the feature includes 3 poems plus
commentary by Robert Morgan, Alice Fulton, and Roger Gilbert.

http://www.poems.com/essaammo.htm

Also included is the wonderful news of a forthcoming posthumous Ammons
volume with the most Ammonsy title *Bosh and Flapdoodle*.

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From gmguddi  Tue Aug 17 18:10:02 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:10:02 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bosh & Flapdoodle
In-Reply-To: <BD47B0B6.A934%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BD47B0B6.A934%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040817170805.02888410@mail.ilstu.edu>

I also had the honor of contributing to that issue, which Roger Gilbert 
edited. Archie was a really great guy.

This is the largets (thickest) issue of EPOCH I've ever seen. It runs to 
something like 400 pages.

Gabe

At 12:55 PM 8/17/2004, David Graham wrote:
>A. R. Ammons fans should surf on over to Poetry Daily, where a
>mini-symposium is in progress, featuring previously unpublished poems.
>Excerpts from a tribute issue of *Epoch*, the feature includes 3 poems plus
>commentary by Robert Morgan, Alice Fulton, and Roger Gilbert.
>
>http://www.poems.com/essaammo.htm
>
>Also included is the wonderful news of a forthcoming posthumous Ammons
>volume with the most Ammonsy title *Bosh and Flapdoodle*.
>
>====================================================
>David Graham
>grahamd at ripon.edu
>Home Page:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>Poetry Library:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>====================================================
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From DICK  Wed Aug 18 11:51:51 2004
From: DICK (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 04 11:51:51 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Kooser is new poet laureate
Message-ID: <200408181554.i7IFsSjZ026030@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>

The announcement of Ted Kooser's appointment came surprisingly
early.  Has there been any evidence over
the past year who the poet laureate was?  Did Louise Gluck do
_anything_ for her thirty-five grand?

Richard



From grahamd  Wed Aug 18 12:04:29 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:04:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Kooser is new poet laureate
In-Reply-To: <200408181554.i7IFsSjZ026030@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <BD48E83D.A9A2%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 8/18/04 10:51 AM, DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com at
DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com wrote:

> The announcement of Ted Kooser's appointment came surprisingly
> early.  Has there been any evidence over
> the past year who the poet laureate was?  Did Louise Gluck do
> _anything_ for her thirty-five grand?
> 
> Richard


As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when the
announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.

Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've no
reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.

Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.

35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it doesn't
even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm sure
the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts of
pork barrel nonsense.

Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
richly earned.  

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From DICK  Wed Aug 18 13:24:39 2004
From: DICK (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 04 13:24:39 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
Message-ID: <200408181732.i7IHWNjZ015871@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>

>>As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when the
>>announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.
>>
>>Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
>>lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've no
>>reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.
>>
>>Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.
>>
>>35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it doesn't
>>even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm sure
>>the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts of
>>pork barrel nonsense.
>>
>>Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
>>richly earned.
>>
This defense comprises equal parts of faith and cynicism.

David finds no reason to think she didn't do what was asked of her,
but there's no evidence of what was asked of her, and there's certainly
no evidence that she did _anything_ beyond give a couple of interviews
when she was appointed.  And why she "richly earned" the honor is
also asserted without support; hey, I've read most of her books and
enjoyed them, but as an inspiration she's way down on my list.

If we needed a woman in the post, how about Mary Kienze, every one of
whose students I've ever met has raved about her.

As for cynicism: if she stole the 35 grand, so what since in Washington
it's "chump change." Shoot - in Washington 1 or 100 megabucks is chump
change too, but if I stole it it's grand larceny.  I think 35 G's
is grand larceny too if you steal it.

Richard



From alphavil  Wed Aug 18 13:38:00 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:38:00 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
In-Reply-To: <200408181732.i7IHWNjZ015871@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
References: <200408181732.i7IHWNjZ015871@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <412393F8.7060608@ix.netcom.com>

"In a regime of grand larceny, petty larceny ranks as conformity." Ezra 
Pound, sorta

DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com wrote:

>>>As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when the
>>>announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.
>>>
>>>Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
>>>lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've no
>>>reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.
>>>
>>>Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.
>>>
>>>35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it doesn't
>>>even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm sure
>>>the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts of
>>>pork barrel nonsense.
>>>
>>>Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
>>>richly earned.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>This defense comprises equal parts of faith and cynicism.
>
>David finds no reason to think she didn't do what was asked of her,
>but there's no evidence of what was asked of her, and there's certainly
>no evidence that she did _anything_ beyond give a couple of interviews
>when she was appointed.  And why she "richly earned" the honor is
>also asserted without support; hey, I've read most of her books and
>enjoyed them, but as an inspiration she's way down on my list.
>
>If we needed a woman in the post, how about Mary Kienze, every one of
>whose students I've ever met has raved about her.
>
>As for cynicism: if she stole the 35 grand, so what since in Washington
>it's "chump change." Shoot - in Washington 1 or 100 megabucks is chump
>change too, but if I stole it it's grand larceny.  I think 35 G's
>is grand larceny too if you steal it.
>
>Richard
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From Cadaly  Wed Aug 11 19:49:28 2004
From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:49:28 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Daly on radio
Message-ID: <1c7.1cf78bed.2e4c0a88@aol.com>

Catherine Daly (re: DaDaDa, Salt Publishing, 2003) on Andy Jones' "Dr. Andy's 
Poetry and Technology Radio Hour" show today (August 11) at 5 pm PST:

http://www.culturelover.com/

KDVS 90.3
listen online at http://www.kdvs.org/


http://www.culturelover.com/listen.html
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From Cadaly  Sat Aug 14 21:15:12 2004
From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:15:12 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] 
	Oakland, CA: Tabios & Daly this Sunday August 15 at 7pm
Message-ID: <1e6.27b38934.2e501320@aol.com>


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Subject: FW: Oakland, CA: Tabios & Daly this Sunday August 15 at 7pm
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From GrahamD  Wed Aug 18 15:49:10 2004
From: GrahamD (Graham, David)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:49:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A31A@mail.ripon.edu>

I'm not the one making the big assumptions here, Richard.  You apparently
feel that Gluck somehow didn't fulfill her duties.  OK, but maybe before you
start throwing around terms like "larceny" you should have some evidence for
it. . . .

My point was that the laureate's official duties are minimal at best.  It's
mainly an honorary post, which a number of recent laureates have chosen to
employ as a bully pulpit for poetry.  As I said, more power to them.  

As for the rest of your post, please note that I was not defending or
admiring Louise Gluck's poetry, particularly.  I said that "many believe"
she richly deserved the recognition, and that's true.  Many do.   She's not
the poet I would have chosen, either, but the fact remains she's somehow
acquired a major-league reputation despite my critical reservations.  It
happens!

And who said anything about "needing" a woman in the position of
laureate/consultant?  That might be news to Rita Dove, Mona Van Duyn,
Gwendolyn Brooks, Maxine Kumin, Elizabeth Bishop,  et al.

============================================
David Graham
Department of English, Ripon College
grahamd at ripon.edu
     Home Page:  
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
     My Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html

Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu
============================================


> ----------
> From: 	DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com
> Reply To: 	NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
> Sent: 	Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:24 PM
> To: 	new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: 	[New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
> 
> >>As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when
> the
> >>announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.
> >>
> >>Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
> >>lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've no
> >>reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.
> >>
> >>Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.
> >>
> >>35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it
> doesn't
> >>even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm
> sure
> >>the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts
> of
> >>pork barrel nonsense.
> >>
> >>Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
> >>richly earned.
> >>
> This defense comprises equal parts of faith and cynicism.
> 
> David finds no reason to think she didn't do what was asked of her,
> but there's no evidence of what was asked of her, and there's certainly
> no evidence that she did _anything_ beyond give a couple of interviews
> when she was appointed.  And why she "richly earned" the honor is
> also asserted without support; hey, I've read most of her books and
> enjoyed them, but as an inspiration she's way down on my list.
> 
> If we needed a woman in the post, how about Mary Kienze, every one of
> whose students I've ever met has raved about her.
> 
> As for cynicism: if she stole the 35 grand, so what since in Washington
> it's "chump change." Shoot - in Washington 1 or 100 megabucks is chump
> change too, but if I stole it it's grand larceny.  I think 35 G's
> is grand larceny too if you steal it.
> 
> Richard
> 



From tad  Wed Aug 18 16:03:38 2004
From: tad (The Old Mole)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:03:38 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A31A@mail.ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c4855e$7530d0d0$6401a8c0@MoleHQ>

Not doing an admirable job is hardly the same as larceny.

Tad


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graham, David" <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:49 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure


> I'm not the one making the big assumptions here, Richard.  You apparently
> feel that Gluck somehow didn't fulfill her duties.  OK, but maybe before
you
> start throwing around terms like "larceny" you should have some evidence
for
> it. . . .
>
> My point was that the laureate's official duties are minimal at best.
It's
> mainly an honorary post, which a number of recent laureates have chosen to
> employ as a bully pulpit for poetry.  As I said, more power to them.
>
> As for the rest of your post, please note that I was not defending or
> admiring Louise Gluck's poetry, particularly.  I said that "many believe"
> she richly deserved the recognition, and that's true.  Many do.   She's
not
> the poet I would have chosen, either, but the fact remains she's somehow
> acquired a major-league reputation despite my critical reservations.  It
> happens!
>
> And who said anything about "needing" a woman in the position of
> laureate/consultant?  That might be news to Rita Dove, Mona Van Duyn,
> Gwendolyn Brooks, Maxine Kumin, Elizabeth Bishop,  et al.
>
> ============================================
> David Graham
> Department of English, Ripon College
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>      Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>      My Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>
> Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu
> ============================================
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com
> > Reply To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:24 PM
> > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
> >
> > >>As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when
> > the
> > >>announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.
> > >>
> > >>Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
> > >>lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've
no
> > >>reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.
> > >>
> > >>Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.
> > >>
> > >>35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it
> > doesn't
> > >>even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm
> > sure
> > >>the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts
> > of
> > >>pork barrel nonsense.
> > >>
> > >>Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
> > >>richly earned.
> > >>
> > This defense comprises equal parts of faith and cynicism.
> >
> > David finds no reason to think she didn't do what was asked of her,
> > but there's no evidence of what was asked of her, and there's certainly
> > no evidence that she did _anything_ beyond give a couple of interviews
> > when she was appointed.  And why she "richly earned" the honor is
> > also asserted without support; hey, I've read most of her books and
> > enjoyed them, but as an inspiration she's way down on my list.
> >
> > If we needed a woman in the post, how about Mary Kienze, every one of
> > whose students I've ever met has raved about her.
> >
> > As for cynicism: if she stole the 35 grand, so what since in Washington
> > it's "chump change." Shoot - in Washington 1 or 100 megabucks is chump
> > change too, but if I stole it it's grand larceny.  I think 35 G's
> > is grand larceny too if you steal it.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>





From alphavil  Thu Aug 19 14:02:58 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:02:58 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] nasty backbiting Liberal press and their factual rengas
In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A31A@mail.ripon.edu>
References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A31A@mail.ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4124EB52.30904@ix.netcom.com>

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi38.htm

Swift Boat Veterans For Lies, Self-Medication, Money & Money For 
Self-Medication:
Vietnam Vet Suckers Enter Ring For Kleptocracy But Get Rabbit Punched By 
the Fourth Estate:
Like Vietnam, the Iraq War Is A Coloring Book Of Kleptocratic Perfidy 
And Theft, But America Is Still Eating The Crayons:

By YASO ADIODI
The Assassinated Press
8/19/04


>  
>



From clitophon  Thu Aug 19 15:54:53 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kaufhaus des Westens
In-Reply-To: <41220188.1010003@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040819195453.77754.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, just a lot of hard work.  I?ve been plagued with
blisters, that as well as the ligament injury. 
Blisters are usually a sign of ill-fitting shoes, the
shoes I bought just before I left, a new pair of
walking shoes, v tough.  I?ve been using a v thick
black Indian ink pen to draw some of Berlin?s
monuments, giving them a very Gothic feel.  I sold a
sketch of the Brandenburger Tor to a Berliner, for 30
euroes.  It shows, you have to keep to the most
obvious landmarks, most recognisable people or sites,
to feed the public otherwise they aren?t interested. 
Otherwise my stay here has been relatively lonely,
especially the latter half.  Not having a job is a big
problem.  I think I could make it here if I had more
time and more resources but even a cheap hotel is 30
euroes per night.  It would be okay if I was selling
sketches every hour but I?ve only sold one.  It would
also be possible with a permit for street art which
happens to be very expensive in Berlin and much dearer
than London, for instance.
Tonight I was in the Kaufhauf des Westens (Dept store
of the West), v impressive, grand building and then
sketched the Kaiser Wilhelm Gedachtnisse Kirche (also
known as ?Hollow Tooth?because the roof has been blown
up by an Allied bomb).  Inside is the Stalingrad
Madonna, a sketch made by a German doctor at
Stalingrad - on the back of a map.  Berlin must have
been incredible before WW2, most of it is now
destroyed.  I?m just inside the Eastern sector, at
Potsdamer Platz which is now an amazing jungle of
skyscrapers but was very undeveloped before the Wende.
 
I have a cheaper and better hotel now.  The staff are
amazingly personable, only speak a little English and
are very grateful to have a customer who speaks German
to them.  It is clearly quite unusual since German is
such a difficult language to master.  The pity is that
my German level is just below theirs but within 6
months I?d be fluent too.  The night porter is an
amazing gentleman, quintessentially civilised (and
eminently Gay), helps me with my German and clearly
would like to spend the night with me too.
M wrote today to call me Hamsterb?cke (hamster mouth).
 I call her Frau Schweinimaus, pig mouse, after her
dogs.
Tschu?ie,
Paul  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



From DICK  Fri Aug 20 10:47:36 2004
From: DICK (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 04 10:47:36 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
Message-ID: <200408201455.i7KEtbjZ023848@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>

***** Reply to your note of: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:00:06 -0400 *************
>>I'm not the one making the big assumptions here, Richard.  You apparently
>>feel that Gluck somehow didn't fulfill her duties.  OK, but maybe before you
>>start throwing around terms like "larceny" you should have some evidence for
>>it. . . .
Well, isn't it colloquial to call holding a job and not doing
any work "stealing the money?" I'll accept that "larceny" is
hyperbolic...
>>
>>  (snip)
>>And who said anything about "needing" a woman in the position of
>>laureate/consultant?  That might be news to Rita Dove, Mona Van Duyn,
>>Gwendolyn Brooks, Maxine Kumin, Elizabeth Bishop,  et al.
>>
If I'm not mistaken, the last several laureates have been Billy (male),
Stanley (male), Robert (M), Rita (F), Bob (M) .. I could imagine
there being pressure to appoint a woman.


Richard



From alphavil  Fri Aug 20 21:36:31 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:36:31 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Glossuber for Ass. Press
In-Reply-To: <20040819195453.77754.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040819195453.77754.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4126A71F.6040208@ix.netcom.com>

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/


Oil Creeps Are Closer to $50 a Barrel:
Hype About Iraq, Terrorism in Saudi Arabia Drive Prices Higher:
Cheney Sees $100 a Barrel 'In No Time':
By DRAB GLOSSUBER


>  
>



From Chris.Lott  Sat Aug 21 00:50:42 2004
From: Chris.Lott (Chris Lott)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:50:42 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
In-Reply-To: <200408201455.i7KEtbjZ023848@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
References: <200408201455.i7KEtbjZ023848@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <6b279deb0408202150316260e8@mail.gmail.com>

> Well, isn't it colloquial to call holding a job and not doing
> any work "stealing the money?" I'll accept that "larceny" is
> hyperbolic...

It's not a job, though, is it? It's an appointment whose sole
obligations are a couple of readings... we may have
hoped/wished/expected her to do more, and that might lessen her in our
esteem, but it isn't theft if it wasn't a requirement in the first
place.

As I recall, she made quite clear at the beginning that she wasn't
going to do much as some previous laureates had-- in fact it was a
topic of discussion on this very list...

c
--
Chris Lott



From anny.ballardini  Sat Aug 21 15:33:36 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:33:36 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
References: <200408201455.i7KEtbjZ023848@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
	<6b279deb0408202150316260e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <018b01c487b5$c0c85000$17a93452@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Yes, I remember all those mails. If I project myself on that eminent spot, I
would have tried to do more. But whatever,
at least she didn't promise and then deny.

Anny

From: "Chris Lott" <Chris.Lott at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 6:50 AM


> > Well, isn't it colloquial to call holding a job and not doing
> > any work "stealing the money?" I'll accept that "larceny" is
> > hyperbolic...
>
> It's not a job, though, is it? It's an appointment whose sole
> obligations are a couple of readings... we may have
> hoped/wished/expected her to do more, and that might lessen her in our
> esteem, but it isn't theft if it wasn't a requirement in the first
> place.
>
> As I recall, she made quite clear at the beginning that she wasn't
> going to do much as some previous laureates had-- in fact it was a
> topic of discussion on this very list...
>
> c
> --
> Chris Lott
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From alphavil  Sat Aug 21 23:38:15 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:38:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitey for Ass. Press
In-Reply-To: <4126A71F.6040208@ix.netcom.com>
References: <20040819195453.77754.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>
	<4126A71F.6040208@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <41281527.2040800@ix.netcom.com>

Turns Out Its The 'Swift Boats Vets Who Can't Face the Truth:'
In A War Defined By Civilian Casualties Inflicted By U.S. Forces 
Veterans Looking For A Leader Who Will Lie For Them:
Some Veterans Still Bitter About Being Outed On Crimes

By G. GOSH WHITEY AND BORUS FLAILURE
Assassinated Press Staff Writers
Saturday, August 21, 2004

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/whitey.htm

>



>



From anny.ballardini  Sun Aug 22 07:44:35 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:44:35 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Borges
Message-ID: <002c01c4883d$66fd10a0$d5d73152@yourpk9x5fuc06>

>From today's PoemHunter, some words for us all:

       
       
      Instants 

      If I could live again my life, 
      In the next - I'll try, 
      - to make more mistakes, 
      I won't try to be so perfect, 
      I'll be more relaxed, 
      I'll be more full - than I am now, 
      In fact, I'll take fewer things seriously, 
      I'll be less hygenic, 
      I'll take more risks, 
      I'll take more trips, 
      I'll watch more sunsets, 
      I'll climb more mountains, 
      I'll swim more rivers, 
      I'll go to more places - I've never been, 
      I'll eat more ice creams and less (lime) beans, 
      I'll have more real problems - and less imaginary 
      ones, 
      I was one of those people who live 
      prudent and prolific lives - 
      each minute of his life, 
      Offcourse that I had moments of joy - but, 
      if I could go back I'll try to have only good moments, 

      If you don't know - thats what life is made of, 
      Don't lose the now! 

      I was one of those who never goes anywhere 
      without a thermometer, 
      without a hot-water bottle, 
      and without an umberella and without a parachute, 

      If I could live again - I will travel light, 
      If I could live again - I'll try to work bare feet 
      at the beginning of spring till 
      the end of autumn, 
      I'll ride more carts, 
      I'll watch more sunrises and play with more children, 
      If I have the life to live - but now I am 85, 
      - and I know that I am dying ... 

      Jorge Luis Borges 
     
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From anny.ballardini  Sun Aug 22 11:11:25 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:11:25 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] another canvas
Message-ID: <00b201c4885a$4afc0100$d5d73152@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Sunday canvas III

 

 

The rounded motive of a Byzantine side chapel

with central flowers leading to the statue of Jesus, the child

hovered by two golden angels holding the crown

 

he is helped by his mother seated at his side, her hands on his armpits

his arms as an open circle to receive our prayers

 

the echoing vaulted ceiling channels and reflects our thoughts

the act of reflection brings back to the subject his amplified quest

breaking through perceptive layers

sometimes e/motion is so strong as to bring tears

like the might of an ocean erupting onshore.

 

It tears all apart.

 

The day outside is unbearably bright

shivers run along the spine after the vision of eternity

a child tries to attract attention

on his father's tired face compliance to life

brings a detached answer

 

paths and streets like guts

knots and lights, fires sometimes

 

they say death is the displacement to another chamber

still it becomes difficult to pack or let someone you love

start packing

 

 

August 22, 2004

Anny Ballardini
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome


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From tad  Sun Aug 22 20:27:17 2004
From: tad (The Old Mole)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:27:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Excellent Website
Message-ID: <001501c488a7$f3cc6070$6501a8c0@MoleHQ>

Which I just stumbled on, though the rest of you may know it. From Professor
Eiichi Hishikawa,  Kobe University, Japan



http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/20c_poet.htm





From JforJames  Sun Aug 22 21:20:20 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:20:20 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] New titles from Salt
Message-ID: <141.31aa99c9.2e5aa054@aol.com>

Date:? ? Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:13:17 +0100
From:? ? Chris Hamilton-Emery <cemery at SALTPUBLISHING.COM>
Subject: New titles from Salt

:: N E W?? T I T L E S?? F R O M?? S A L T ::

MATTHEW FRANCIS
"Where the People Are: Language and Community in the Poetry of W. S. Graham=
"
ISBN 1876857234
=A316.95
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/sscp/1876857234.htm
BUY NOW http://www.saltpublishing.com/shop/proddetail.php?prod=3D1876857234

RACHEL BLAU DuPLESSIS
"Drafts: Drafts 39=AD57, Pledge, with Draft, unnumbered: Pr=E9cis"
=A312.95
ISBN 1844710726
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710726.htm
BUY NOW http://www.saltpublishing.com/shop/proddetail.php?prod=3D1844710726



:: A V A I L A B L E?? I N?? O N E?? W E E K ::

CHARLES BERNSTEIN
Introduction by Ron Silliman
"The Sophist"
=A310.95
ISBN 1844710009
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smc/1844710009.htm

JOHN KINSELLA & TRACY RYAN
"Conspiracies"
=A310.95
ISBN 1844710181
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smf/1844710181.htm

JOHN KINSELLA
"Doppler Effect"
=A317.95
ISBN 1844710203
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710203.htm

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From JforJames  Sun Aug 22 21:47:37 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:47:37 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
Message-ID: <20.31821373.2e5aa6b9@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/12/2004 11:03:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes:

> It's a shame that he doesn't have a wider audience, but that's a complaint 
> that could be lodged by/about 10,000+ other poets and those who respect their 
> work.  Kooser's nomination came as a surprise to me, a pleasant one. 

I've been away and away from po news. Milosz died. Kooser gets the nod
for Poet Laureate: I agree that Kooser is an unexpected choice. Does anyone
know how this position is selected?...there is more transparency in the 
selection
of a Pope by the College of Cardinals...is there a committee of some kind?
One connection I can come up with is Dana Gioia: He wrote favorably
of Kooser in an essay entitled "The Anonymity of the Regional Poet."
Finnegan 

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From JforJames  Sun Aug 22 22:14:59 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:14:59 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Blue plaque ends 60 years in the cold for Ezra Pound
Message-ID: <8e.12fc4bbe.2e5aad23@aol.com>

Blue plaque ends 60 years in the cold for Ezra Pound

English Heritage recognises poets' poet whose pivotal role in 20th century
literature was overshadowed by his anti-semitic views

John Ezard, arts correspondent
Thursday August 12, 2004
The Guardian

Ezra Pound, the "poets' poet" who has been ostracised for 60 years because
of his virulent anti-semitism and support for fascism, was honoured with an
official blue plaque yesterday.

The plaque, from English Heritage, is a first chink of light in the cloud
of infamy and disgrace which hangs over Pound's memory, although he was the
godfather of literary modernism and midwife to some of the 20th century's
greatest works - notably TS Eliot's poem The Waste Land.

The ceremony in London brought applause from an audience of those who
support him as an artist. One called it "an event long overdue" when the
plaque was unveiled at the house in Kensington Church Walk where the
US-born writer lived from 1909 to 1914.

The building is steeped in literary history. There Pound promoted the work
of then unknown writers including Eliot and James Joyce, worked alongside
WB Yeats and was visited by Robert Frost, DH Lawrence and the Nobel
prize-winning Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore.

>From there, he changed the course of poetry with his doctrine of Imagism.
This stressed clarity, precision and economy in verse, breaking free from
strict traditional rhymes and metres.

Eliot described Pound as "more responsible for the 20th century revolution
in poetry than any other individual". He followed Pound's advice in
revising The Waste Land and dedicated the poem to him, acknowledging him as
"il miglior fabbro" (the better craftsman).

But Pound is also credited with prompting a scatter of anti-semitic lines
in Eliot's verse. These still dog the more famous poet's reputation:

My house is a decayed house,
And the jew squats on the window sill, the owner,
Spawned in some estaminet of Antwerp (Gerontion, 1920)

>From the 1920s onwards, Pound grew obsessed with the Jewish people and
with a belief that usury, otherwise called "credit capitalism", was rotting
western civilisation. Living in Italy, he broadcast propaganda for
Mussolini and spoke in favour of Hitler.

He was found mentally unfit to answer charges of treason after the war and
was certified insane. In confinement, he wrote his admired Pisan Cantos.

Yesterday his daughter Mary de Rachewiltz, 78, said: "My father has been
subjected to much criticism ... He always stood by his belief that justice
is for everyone."

A US Pound scholar, Professor William Pratt, said: "For English Heritage to
say that Pound is part of the authentic heritage means a great deal.
There's a lot about Pound I don't like but he changed the history of
English poetry."

Emily Cole, English Heritage's plaques historian, said: "It obviously was
quite a controversial case. But the panel [which approved the plaque] were
very conscious of his place in literature."

The director general of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, Neville
Nagler, said: "I hope the unveiling is not any kind of endorsement, of
Pound's anti-semitic and highly offensive views which pervaded his poetry."
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From Rsgwynn1  Sun Aug 22 23:31:50 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:31:50 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
Message-ID: <67.31272471.2e5abf26@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/22/2004 8:47:53 PM Central Daylight Time, 
JforJames at aol.com writes: 
> I've been away and away from po news. Milosz died. Kooser gets the nod
> for Poet Laureate: I agree that Kooser is an unexpected choice. Does anyone
> know how this position is selected?...there is more transparency in the 
> selection
> of a Pope by the College of Cardinals...is there a committee of some kind?
> One connection I can come up with is Dana Gioia: He wrote favorably
> of Kooser in an essay entitled "The Anonymity of the Regional Poet."
> Finnegan 

There was a news story posted the other day that said that a committee at the 
Library of Congress consults former laureates and others. I expect Dana was 
consulted.
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From anny.ballardini  Mon Aug 23 02:13:33 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:13:33 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Excellent Website
References: <001501c488a7$f3cc6070$6501a8c0@MoleHQ>
Message-ID: <004a01c488d8$521f4130$b6d83052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Well thanks. I didn't really need one more poetry link, but I love storing
them under my favorites, :-)

Anny


From: "The Old Mole" <tad at opus40.org>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:27 AM


> Which I just stumbled on, though the rest of you may know it. From
Professor
> Eiichi Hishikawa,  Kobe University, Japan
>
>
>
> http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/20c_poet.htm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From ron.silliman  Mon Aug 23 07:50:08 2004
From: ron.silliman (Ron)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 07:50:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: he's ba-ack . . . 
Message-ID: <000001c48907$5e0f1680$6501a8c0@Dell>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT TOPICS:

Vacation reading list(s)

Two notes on Rem Koolhaas,
Frank Gehry & post-avant architecture
in Seattle

After The Alphabet

Two new important poetry sites:
Mini-mag's PhillySound feature &
audios from the Carrboro (NC) Poetry Festival

3 notes on the work of Tenney Nathanson

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/





From halvard  Mon Aug 23 16:34:37 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:34:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Gerardo Deniz, "Childish"
Message-ID: <f160a121040823133471f300f3@mail.gmail.com>

Childish

Take your kids away, take them
you who teach them to yell "hooray!" when excited.
It's profoundly untrue.
(Likewise, close the crematory oven,
what if the sideburns of a distracted onlooker catch fire
at the observation window, still scalding after incinerating Mom.)
Our representatives travel to streets, race tracks, bakeries
--easily recognized by the nursing bottles embroidered on their blue caps--
and to those kids who whine beyond description,
they hand out candy, toys, tricycles, atomic bombs,
that can generate radioactive mushrooms at least five feet tall.
What we mustn't permit, however, is spitting,
which is truly unbearable.
In these days devoted to the science of child-rearing
I climb up to the roof over and over again,
to take walks and unwind from the action:
across the maritime horizon I see
giant distant whales go by.

--Gerardo Deniz

fr. *Ton y son*
tr. M?nica de la Torre

Pueril

Ll?vense a sus ni?os, ll?venselos
quienes le ense?an que cuando est?n contentos griten "yupi".
Es profundamente mentira.
(Pero que se cierre asimismo el horno crematorio,
no vaya a quemarse alg?n despistado las patillas
con el ventanuco de observaci?n, ardiendo todav?a de incinerar a mam?.)
Recorren calles, hip?dromos, pasteler?as nuestras diputaciones
--f?cilmente reconocibles gracias al biber?n bordado en la boina azul--,
y a las criaturas que sean halladas en flagrante berrinche indescriptible
entr?guenseles dulces, juguetes, triciclos, bombas at?micas
que produzcan hongos radiactivos de metro y medio siquiera.
Hay que prohibir nada m?sles, escupir,
lo cual s? es insoportable.
en estos d?as consagrados a la puericultura subo a pasear
una y otra vez sobre el techo
y serenarme de la acci?n;
veo por el horizonte marino pasar
grandes ballenas lejanas.


Hal     

Halvard Johnson
===============
email: halvard at earthlink.net
          halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard




From JforJames  Mon Aug 23 16:54:55 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:54:55 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
Message-ID: <1c6.1d9a1c44.2e5bb39f@aol.com>

The new Laureate in a Q&A...

http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
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From halvard  Tue Aug 24 10:17:29 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:17:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Ron Schreiber
Message-ID: <f160a121040824071722d8e142@mail.gmail.com>

Ron Schreiber, a poet, teacher, and one of the founding fathers of 
Hanging Loose and Hanging Loose Press, died this past Saturday.

"We cannot prevent? the birds of sorrow from flying over our heads?
but we can refuse? to let them build nests? in our hair."
                         ?Ron Schreiber, "The Birds of Sorrow" 

-- 
Hal                

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard




From JforJames  Tue Aug 24 12:41:24 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:41:24 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for submissions- WORM 31 Poetry e-zine
Message-ID: <66.44bb4000.2e5cc9b4@aol.com>

Date:    Mon, 23 Aug 2004 07:24:04 +0100
From:    grasshopper <grasshopper at WORDBUG.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject: Call for submissions- WORM 31 Poetry e-zine

WORM is a poetry zine distributed by email, then archived permanently on =
the WORM webpages: http://www.villarana.freeserve.co.uk/wormhome.htm=20
The deadline for WORM 31 is 7th September 2004. Please send up to 3 =
poems, free verse or formal, to: grasshopper at wordbug.freeserve.co.uk in =
the body of an email, not as an attachment. Previous publication or =
simultaneous submission are not problems for WORM.
Important: Do not send any submissions to this list - only to my email =
address.
All submissions are forwarded (without authors' names) to my 2 =
co-editors and selection is made on the basis of our combined scores. My =
co-editors for WORM 31 are David Anthony and Helena Nelson.
Any questions, just drop me an email. I know Everything.=20
Regards,Maz=20
(M.A.Griffiths,
Resident editor)
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From barry.spacks  Tue Aug 24 12:42:35 2004
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:42:35 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks-Facts
In-Reply-To: <200408241600.i7OG03YC032346@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>

To celebrate two new books of poems coming out this year (REGARDING WOMEN,
WordTech, winner of the Cherry Grove Collections Prize, and THE HOPE OF THE 
AIR,
Michigan State University Press) I'm reading here and there in the fall, 
thought I'd post
a few of those dates/places in case any list-mates have an interest and 
live or travel nearby.

Please back-channel for fuller info.

Santa Barbara Poetry Series at the Contemporary Arts Forum: September 14, 7 
p.m.
Allegheny College (reading and residency): September 20-22
M.I.T. reading: September 23, 7 p.m.
Fremont, Michigan, Library Reading Series: October 23
Readers Books, Sonoma, CA.: November 16
Stanford University: November 17

I'm also riding The Georgia Circuit to 10 colleges & universities,
November 7-13 &  January 23-29, 2005

Y'all come if you can!

listingly,

Barry

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From anny.ballardini  Tue Aug 24 13:54:58 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:54:58 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks-Facts
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <007101c48a03$78b8abc0$44de3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

All right Barry, you are an incredible flying Kid, compliments and cheers
Useless to say that I would love to be present to 'em All!

(here goes a very long signature)
Anny Ballardini
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome

"Sir   Laurence,"   he   said,  smiling  wanly,  "I  detest
     literature.  I  abominate  the  theatre. I have a horror of
     culture. I am only interested in magic!"
     --John Lahr (editor), [2]The Diaries of Kenneth Tynan


  From: Barry Spacks 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 6:42 PM


  To celebrate two new books of poems coming out this year (REGARDING WOMEN, 
  WordTech, winner of the Cherry Grove Collections Prize, and THE HOPE OF THE AIR, 
  Michigan State University Press) I'm reading here and there in the fall, thought I'd post 
  a few of those dates/places in case any list-mates have an interest and live or travel nearby.

  Please back-channel for fuller info.

  Santa Barbara Poetry Series at the Contemporary Arts Forum: September 14, 7 p.m.
  Allegheny College (reading and residency): September 20-22
  M.I.T. reading: September 23, 7 p.m.
  Fremont, Michigan, Library Reading Series: October 23
  Readers Books, Sonoma, CA.: November 16
  Stanford University: November 17

  I'm also riding The Georgia Circuit to 10 colleges & universities,
  November 7-13 &  January 23-29, 2005

  Y'all come if you can!

  listingly,

  Barry




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From halvard  Tue Aug 24 14:11:36 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:11:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks-Facts
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <f160a12104082411115a38e2ff@mail.gmail.com>

Y'all come if you can!

listingly,

Barry

=====

Straighten up, fly right, and break a leg, Barry.
If you guys change course and make it to NYC
give us a buzz.

-- 
Hal                

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard



From alphavil  Wed Aug 25 09:57:44 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:57:44 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Abu Graib Bag
In-Reply-To: <f160a12104082411115a38e2ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>
	<f160a12104082411115a38e2ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <412C9AD8.80203@ix.netcom.com>


Knowledge Of Abu Graib Sex Romps Went "Higher than God" As DNA 
Implicates Rumsfeld:
Abu Ghraib Report Faults Top Officials---Not Enough Dope, Liquor, Toys 
At Sex 'Interrogations':
Teenaged Detainees Forced To Give Military Brass Lap Dances:
Wolfowitz Reaffirms "Iraq war was not for the Oil. It was for the Fuck 
Munch."
"We Don't Want Americans To Think Of Murder As Something Uncomfortable, 
Like Sex," Counsels Bill O'Reilly

By ROBBIE BARRONS
Assassinated Press Military Writer
August 24, 2004



>  
>



From JforJames  Wed Aug 25 13:42:32 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:42:32 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Back-up that disk drive
Message-ID: <a1.4c3c3b64.2e5e2988@aol.com>

http://w3.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge/story.asp?StoryID=60370
Poet's plea for return of poems
Published on 25 August 2004
TEN years' work has been stolen from a poet on a visit to the The Orchard, 
Grantchester.
 
Steve Larkin said the unpublished poetry was invaluable to him and pleaded 
with thieves to return it.
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From JforJames  Wed Aug 25 14:00:30 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:00:30 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan: A profile     
Message-ID: <1e3.28db4066.2e5e2dbe@aol.com>

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0825/p25s01-bogn.html

Poet Kay Ryan: A profile
 
By Elizabeth Lund 
 
Kay Ryan may be the only American poet who describes her writing process as 
"a self-imposed emergency," the artistic equivalent of finding a loved one 
pinned under a 3,000-pound car. These "emergencies," she says, allow her to tap 
into abilities she wouldn't normally have, much like a father who 
single-handedly lifts a vehicle off his child.
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From GrahamD  Wed Aug 25 14:29:00 2004
From: GrahamD (Graham, David)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:29:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] H. L. Hix
Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A32D@mail.ripon.edu>

No Less Than Twenty-Six Distinct Necronyms

*Father dead*, we will call her, or *Niece dead.
Cousin in car crash*. So many names fit.
*Sister cut wrists, Brother shot in the head.
Grandfather wandered off, Great uncle hit
By train while drunk. Aunt dead. Aunt dead. Aunt dead.
Brother stillborn. Uncle had heart attack.
Niece murdered. Great-grandmother died in bed.
Nephew dead. Sister drowned in frozen lake.
Sister burned in trailer home fire. Brother
Overdosed. Sister, crib death*. Every breath
Matters. *Cousin fell from window. Cancer
Ate colons of two uncles, lungs of both
Grandmothers. Cousin had kidney failure
After going blind. Mother died giving birth*.

H. L. Hix.  *Perfect Hell*. Gibbs Smith, 1996


============================================
David Graham
Department of English, Ripon College
grahamd at ripon.edu
     Home Page:  
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
     My Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html

Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu
============================================




From terzarima  Wed Aug 25 14:38:40 2004
From: terzarima (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:38:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Open Books in Seattle
Message-ID: <17078861.1093459120805.JavaMail.root@skeeter.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

Wow!  

I just heard that there is another "all poetry" bookstore out there, this one in Seattle!  Open Books! 

They have a lovely website with reviews of new titles as well as descriptions of rare and first editions they have in stock, for any who are interested. I am glad to hear about them.

Has anyone been there?

http://www.openpoetrybooks.com/

--Suzanne



From paul.lake  Wed Aug 25 08:01:26 2004
From: paul.lake (Paul Lake)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:01:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan: A profile     
In-Reply-To: <1e3.28db4066.2e5e2dbe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD51E9C6.6DA3%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

Thanks for posting his very fine article on Kay Ryan, a poet I admire.

Paul



On 8/25/04 1:00 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:

> http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0825/p25s01-bogn.html
> 
>  
> 
> Poet Kay Ryan: A profile
> 
>  
> 
> By Elizabeth Lund
> 
>  
> Kay Ryan may be the only American poet who describes her writing process as "a
> self-imposed emergency," the artistic equivalent of finding a loved one pinned
> under a 3,000-pound car. These "emergencies," she says, allow her to tap into
> abilities she wouldn't normally have, much like a father who single-handedly
> lifts a vehicle off his child.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


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From lshinn  Wed Aug 25 15:07:11 2004
From: lshinn (Leslie Shinn)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:07:11 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan: A profile
In-Reply-To: <BD51E9C6.6DA3%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>
References: <BD51E9C6.6DA3%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>
Message-ID: <p05210610bd529368d040@[130.91.64.42]>

This is a wonderful article -- love that Kay Ryan!  Such a fine, fine poet.

>
>On 8/25/04 1:00 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0825/p25s01-bogn.html
>
>
>
>Poet Kay Ryan: A profile
>
>
>
>By Elizabeth Lund
>
>
>Kay Ryan may be the only American poet who describes her writing 
>process as "a self-imposed emergency," the artistic equivalent of 
>finding a loved one pinned under a 3,000-pound car. These 
>"emergencies," she says, allow her to tap into abilities she 
>wouldn't normally have, much like a father who single-handedly lifts 
>a vehicle off his child.
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad  Wed Aug 25 15:32:12 2004
From: tad (The Old Mole)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:32:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] lost note
Message-ID: <016201c48ada$4032ef40$6501a8c0@MoleHQ>

Someone, about a month or so ago, posted here a note with a call for papers for an American Lit of American studies conference in Kentucky, which I made a note of, and then lost the note. Can you backchannel me?

Tad at opus40.org

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From Rsgwynn1  Wed Aug 25 20:50:10 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:50:10 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
Message-ID: <a3.61c651e5.2e5e8dc2@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time, 
JforJames at aol.com writes: 
> 
> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>   
>  http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
> 

James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview from 
RealPlayer to cd?
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From jnewberry1974  Wed Aug 25 21:39:47 2004
From: jnewberry1974 (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <a3.61c651e5.2e5e8dc2@cs.com>
Message-ID: <20040826013947.85187.qmail@web52603.mail.yahoo.com>

Sam,
 
When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the file somewhere on your computer.  You can either put it in a special folder, or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
 
>From there, you can burn the file to a cd.  Just stick in a blank CD.  XP should walk you through the rest.
 
Jeff Newberry

Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: 

The new Laureate in a Q&A...
  
http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp


James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



Jeff Newberry
 
"Sometimes it's not so easy,
especially when your only friend
talks, sees, looks and feels like you,
and you do just the same as him."
--Jimi Hendrix, "My Friend"
		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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From Rsgwynn1  Wed Aug 25 21:57:32 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:57:32 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
Message-ID: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes: 
> 
> Sam,
>   
>  When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the 
> file somewhere on your computer.  You can either put it in a special folder, 
> or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>   
>  From there, you can burn the file to a cd.  Just stick in a blank CD.  XP 
> should walk you through the rest.
>   
>  Jeff Newberry
> 
> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>  
> >> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>> JforJames at aol.com writes: 
>> >>> 
>>> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>>>   
>>> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>>> 
>> 
>> James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview 
>> from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff Newberry
> 
It's a direct stream, not a file, I think.  Any other ideas? I just recorded 
it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the sound quality isn't 
very good.
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From kpaul  Wed Aug 25 22:14:50 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:14:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>
References: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>
Message-ID: <20040825211403.S51439@kpaul.spinweb.net>

i can't vouch for it myself, but this looks like it might do the trick. 
and it appears it's free.

R7C Real7ime Converter

http://emoney.al.ru/capture-streaming-video-and-audio/record-streaming-video-real-video.htm

best,
kpaul

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
> jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Sam,
>>
>>  When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the
>> file somewhere on your computer.  You can either put it in a special folder,
>> or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>>
>>  From there, you can burn the file to a cd.  Just stick in a blank CD.  XP
>> should walk you through the rest.
>>
>>  Jeff Newberry
>>
>> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>>
>>>> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
>>> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>>>>>>
>>>> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>>>>
>>>
>>> James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview
>>> from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
> It's a direct stream, not a file, I think.  Any other ideas? I just recorded
> it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the sound quality isn't
> very good.
>



From acgold01  Wed Aug 25 23:28:30 2004
From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:28:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] 20C Literature and Culture Conference, and Lowell
Message-ID: <s12d20af.092@gwise.louisville.edu>

I'm resending the information that Tad requested about the 20C
Literature and Culture Conference in Louisville in case others can use
it.  The website is http://www.louisville.edu/a-s/cml/xxconf/

A question: does anyone know if the full text of Robert Lowell's
National Book Award acceptance for Life Studies is/was published
anywhere?  It's not in his Collected Prose.  It's partially cited in a
1960 essay by Stanley Kunitz, and the full text is online, but I need a
print source.

Thanks,

Alan



From jnewberry1974  Thu Aug 26 09:09:47 2004
From: jnewberry1974 (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:09:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <20040825211403.S51439@kpaul.spinweb.net>
Message-ID: <20040826130947.61147.qmail@web52603.mail.yahoo.com>

Here's the file.  If you right click on the actual page, you can save as on your desktop.
 
Or, you can download this.
 
Jeff

kpaul mallasch <kpaul at mallasch.com> wrote: 
i can't vouch for it myself, but this looks like it might do the trick. 
and it appears it's free.

R7C Real7ime Converter

http://emoney.al.ru/capture-streaming-video-and-audio/record-streaming-video-real-video.htm

best,
kpaul

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
> jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Sam,
>>
>> When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the
>> file somewhere on your computer. You can either put it in a special folder,
>> or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>>
>> From there, you can burn the file to a cd. Just stick in a blank CD. XP
>> should walk you through the rest.
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
>> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>>
>>>> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
>>> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>>>>>>
>>>> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>>>>
>>>
>>> James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview
>>> from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
> It's a direct stream, not a file, I think. Any other ideas? I just recorded
> it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the sound quality isn't
> very good.
>
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



Jeff Newberry
 
"Sometimes it's not so easy,
especially when your only friend
talks, sees, looks and feels like you,
and you do just the same as him."
--Jimi Hendrix, "My Friend"
		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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From kpaul  Thu Aug 26 10:31:41 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:31:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <20040826130947.61147.qmail@web52603.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040826130947.61147.qmail@web52603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040826093106.I22438@kpaul.spinweb.net>

If it's only 211 bytes, i imagine it's just a pointer to the stream. That 
is, if you burn it to a CD and try to play it on something that isn't 
connected to the Intraweb, you won't be able to hear it...

-kpaul

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Jeff Newberry wrote:

> Here's the file.  If you right click on the actual page, you can save as on your desktop.
>
> Or, you can download this.
>
> Jeff
>
> kpaul mallasch <kpaul at mallasch.com> wrote:
> i can't vouch for it myself, but this looks like it might do the trick.
> and it appears it's free.
>
> R7C Real7ime Converter
>
> http://emoney.al.ru/capture-streaming-video-and-audio/record-streaming-video-real-video.htm
>
> best,
> kpaul
>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes:
>>>
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>> When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the
>>> file somewhere on your computer. You can either put it in a special folder,
>>> or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>>>
>>> From there, you can burn the file to a cd. Just stick in a blank CD. XP
>>> should walk you through the rest.
>>>
>>> Jeff Newberry
>>>
>>> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
>>>> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview
>>>> from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff Newberry
>>>
>> It's a direct stream, not a file, I think. Any other ideas? I just recorded
>> it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the sound quality isn't
>> very good.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
> "Sometimes it's not so easy,
> especially when your only friend
> talks, sees, looks and feels like you,
> and you do just the same as him."
> --Jimi Hendrix, "My Friend"
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!



From JforJames  Thu Aug 26 12:29:25 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:29:25 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] poet Barry Schwabsky
Message-ID: <1e5.28f2fd86.2e5f69e5@aol.com>

http://www.sidereality.com/volume3issue2/interviewsv3n2/interviewwithbarryschw
absky.htm

What makes someone a poet? I don't know, but I wouldn't put too much weight 
on a name, nor do I think it makes much sense to promote the idea of poets as a 
somehow distinct category of people. Poetry is a formalization of the 
linguistic activity in which everyone is involved all the time, and ideally it should 
be available to all who feel a need to express themselves in that manner so 
as to reflect on their imaginative engagement with life. Perhaps that isn't 
very clear, but if you think of Heidegger's famous dictum, "Man dwells 
poetically," that indicates that poetry is not primarily a specialized activity, but 
fundamental to our being at home (or failing to be at home) in the world. There 
are good reasons why a small number of people should also make a specialized 
activity of this, but those of us who do so do not thereby attain ownership over 
the words "poetry" and "poet."
--Barry Schwabsky

Schwabsky is an art critc and a poet. During a decade or
so he wasn't writing much and didn't try to publish at all. 
He says in the interview that when discussing his lapse 
from poetry with Ann Lauterbach she referred to him as a "discouraged 
worker," a phrase used by economists 
for someone who has been unemployed for so long that 
he/she has pretty much stopped looking for work. (Probably 
most poets are discouraged workers in the sense of being 
gainfully-employed in their chosen vocation.)

Thanks to Dennis Barone for pointing me to this site,
the interview and the selection of Schwabsky's poems.

Finnegan
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From alphavil  Thu Aug 26 12:45:29 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:45:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] the opportunity to serve
In-Reply-To: <1e5.28f2fd86.2e5f69e5@aol.com>
References: <1e5.28f2fd86.2e5f69e5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <412E13A9.3040205@ix.netcom.com>

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/


Draft Board Volunteers Have Been Meeting Quietly For Nearly A Year:
New 'Universal Draft' Guidelines In Place:

By PHILIP OCHS
The Assassinated Press
August 26, 2004


Americans At Peace With Culture Of Greed:
Auditor Applauds Iraq Contract Oversight:
Halliburton Unit Not Required To Justify Expenses, Memo Says

By RILEY HARROWING
Assassinated Press Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 25, 2004






From cc  Thu Aug 26 13:21:35 2004
From: cc (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:21:35 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vol 2, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <200408011600.i71G03YD018443@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHEEJFCPAA.cc@opus0.com>

James, 
No fireworks for the start of the new Volume?  
And what numerology behind 2362 Issues?  

Crisman




From clitophon  Thu Aug 26 13:35:22 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:35:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Cyclops Polyphemus
In-Reply-To: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHEEJFCPAA.cc@opus0.com>
Message-ID: <20040826173522.29246.qmail@web40421.mail.yahoo.com>

childbirth is not unique to women.  Of course, this is
a trick question.  Only a woman can give birth so the
man who gives birth is really no man.  Also the answer
Odysseus gives to the Cyclops, not the usual epithet,
I am Odysseus son of Laertes.  But, I am no man.  The
Cyclops, completely confused, rushes out onto the
hillside and shouts to his fellows for help.  They
reply;

'who is attacking you?'

'no man'

and they all laugh at him.  Polythemus hurls a rock at
Odysseus' boat as he leaves the island of the Cyclops.
Of course the Cyclops represents a stage in human
ontology as man makes the transition from primitive,
subjective (bigoted, blind to the other) being to
objective, advanced human with legal, social
institutions, capability to love and care for others
beyond his or her immediate family and feel a sense of
unity beyond personal material/financial interests. 
In other words, to experience the objective sphere of
human love.  
The story is paralleled in Arthur C Clarke's novel
'2001: A Space Odyssey' with the Hal 9000 computer
standing in for the Cyclops.  Instead of the battle in
the hall at the end there is a strange hotel room with
Old Masters on the wall and an eery sound track.    I
wonder how he got the Ajax (how Homeric!!!) to clean
the toilet.  I mean, if he's supposed to be on one of
the moons of Jupiter for that long, how did he get
fluid and cleaner or food or clothes?  Was there a
disco?  A bar?  How did he cope with his urge to....  
PM


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail



From mandolin  Thu Aug 26 20:20:29 2004
From: mandolin (Michael Snider)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:20:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>
References: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>
Message-ID: <E6AE175E-F7BE-11D8-AACB-000393C29586@mac.com>

Sam, what's your OS? If it's Mac OS X, I can help.  backchannel if you 
like.

On Aug 25, 2004, at 9:57 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes:
>
>
>  Sam,
>  ?
>  When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save 
> the file somewhere on your computer.? You can either put it in a 
> special folder, or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>  ?
>  From there, you can burn the file to a cd.? Just stick in a blank 
> CD.? XP should walk you through the rest.
>  ?
>  Jeff Newberry
>
> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>
>
>  The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>  ?
> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>
>
>
>  James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this 
> interview from RealPlayer to cd? 
> _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
>
>  Jeff Newberry
>
>
>  It's a direct stream, not a file, I think.? Any other ideas? I just 
> recorded it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the 
> sound quality isn't very 
> good._______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





From halvard  Fri Aug 27 12:06:32 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:06:32 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Octavio Paz, "On Reading John Cage"
In-Reply-To: <KOECIOJIGMDEJAEGDFJEIEBHINAA.halvard@earthlink.net>
References: <KOECIOJIGMDEJAEGDFJEIEBHINAA.halvard@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210408270906626dbbb0@mail.gmail.com>

On Reading John Cage

Reading
           Flowing
Music without measurements,
Sounds passing through circumstances,
I hear them within me
                               Outside they pass
I see them outside me
                                Within me they pass.
I am the circumstance,
Music:
         I hear within what I see outside
         I see within what I hear outside
(I can't hear myself hearing: Duchamp.)
                                                          I am
An architecture of sounds
Instantaneous
                   On
A space that disintegrates itself
                                              (Everything
We come across is to the point.)
                                                  Music
Invents silence,
                      Architecture
Invents space.
                     Factories of air.
Silence
          Is the space of music:
Space
         Unextended:
                            There is no silence
Save in the mind.
                         Silence is an idea,
                         The id?e fixe of music.
Music is not an idea:
                              It is sound,
Sounds walking over silence.
(Not one sound fears the silence
                                  That extinguishes it.)
Silence is music
                       Music is not silence.
Nirvana is Samsara
                             Samsara is not Nirvana.
Knowing is not knowing:
                                     Recovering ignorance,
Knowledge of knowing.
                                    It is one thing to hear
These afternoon-footsteps
Between trees and houses
                                       Another to see
Between same trees and houses
These afternoon-footsteps
                                       After reading
Silence:
            Nirvana is Samsara
                                          Silence is music.
(Let life obscure
                         The difference between art and life.)
Music is not silence:
                              It is not saying
What silence says,
                           It is saying
What it doesn't say.
                             Silence has no sense
                             Sense has no silence.
Without being heard
                              Music slips between both.
(Every something is an echo of nothing.)
In the silence of my room
                                      The murmur of my body:
Unheard.
             One day I shall hear its thoughts.
                                                               The afternoon
Stands still:
                 Yet--it walks.
My body hears the body of my wife
                                                      (A cable of sound)
And responds to it:
                            This is called music.
Music is real,
                    Silence is an idea.
John Cage is Japanese
                                  And is not an idea:
He is sun on snow.
                            Sun and snow are not the same:
Sun is snow and snow is snow
                                              Or
Sun is not snow and snow is not snow
Or
    John Cage is not American
U.S.A. is determined to keep the Free World free,
U.S.A. determined)
                              Or
John Cage is American
                                   (That the U.S.A. may become
Just another part of the world.
                                                 No more, no less.)
Snow is not sun
                        Music is not silence
Sun is snow
                  Silence is music
(The situation must be Yes-and-No
                                                       Not either-or)
Between silence and music
                                        Art and life
Snow and sun
                      There is a man
This man is John Cage
                                  (Committed
To the nothing in between)
                                           He says a word
Not snow not sun
                           One word
Which is not
                   Silence:
A year from Monday you will hear it.

The afternoon has become invisible.
.
--Octavio Paz

tr. Monique Fong Wust and G. Aroul
fr. Configurations [New York: New Directions, 1978]

Hal

Halvard Johnson
===============
email: halvard at earthlink.net
        halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard




From ccooley  Thu Aug 26 14:11:55 2004
From: ccooley (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:11:55 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Report from Sligo...  
Message-ID: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHAEJGCPAA.ccooley@overdomain.com>

First of all, to conclude a discussion everyone's forgotten:
Poetic Performance, Seamus vs. Jorie: and the winner is...

Brendan Kennelly!

Have you seen Mr. K perform?
Besides being the only person I've seen make people laugh and cry in the
same poetry reading, to memorize a 2-hour performance, he also wrote an epic
poem that became a bestseller (_The Book of Judas_).

Of course it isn't fair that he gets to live in Ireland where the audience
for poetry has enthusiasm necessary to buy that many copies of an epic poem.
But many Irish poets, those not in self-imposed exile, do live in Ireland.
So unfair!  My landlady, Mairead, was usually awake and sitting on the couch
with a friend or two when I came home (at whatever hour) and would ask,
'Would ya like just a bit a somethin?' and we'd stay up drinking and
discussing why they preferred O'Casey to Synge, how Diarmuid McMurrough
brought the Norman in, what's the meaning, history and pronunciation of Ath
Cliath, and wasn't (Joyce lecturer) David Norris a stitch with his 'shite
and onions'?  The experience answered my question as to why a
disproportionate number of great writers are Irish: they play to Mairead and
her friends.

I recommend the Yeats Summer School very highly-- the poetry workshop was
amazing...JG is insightful, funny, direct, informed and knows what can (from
what cannot) be taught and how to teach it.  Lecturers were (mostly)
brilliant, play production by Sam McCready(_The Dreaming of the Bones_) was
excellent.  There was also a production of "Cat and the Moon" as well as
film versions of three other Yeats plays.  Seamus Heaney did mill about and
make himself surprisingly available.  It was possible to take in Yeats from
9am to 3am, and that is the schedule that many of us kept.  It was worth the
price just to walk out of a lecture on Yeats and the Occult into the
occasional Sligo sunshine and to see Ben Bulben standing on the horizon.















From JforJames  Fri Aug 27 20:11:32 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:11:32 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Edwin Williamson's Borges biography 
Message-ID: <1a5.2793d335.2e6127b4@aol.com>

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040815/news_lz1v15magic.html

Moreover, Williamson has discovered a major thread in Borges' life. From the 
Preface: 

"I began to suspect that [Borges'] insistence on amending or erasing his 
youthful writings was motivated not so much by an aversion to his early poetics as 
by a wish to cover up some matter that had caused him particular pain. In due 
course I was able to gather evidence that revealed that he had indeed 
undergone an experience in his mid-twenties that had driven him to the brink of 
suicide and almost destroyed him as a writer. Borges never directly spoke of this 
experience, but it became evident that it had been pivotal to his development, 
for it was as a result of that trauma that he ceased being a poet, and it was 
largely on account of it that he discovered the kind of writing that would 
eventually make his name." 

    
    

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From JforJames  Fri Aug 27 20:11:39 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:11:39 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poland Buries Nobel Poet Milosz Amid Controversy
Message-ID: <1d4.297b85eb.2e6127bb@aol.com>

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040827/en_nm/people_milosz_dc_2

Poland Buries Nobel Poet Milosz Amid Controversy

Fri Aug 27, 3:04 PM ET  Reuters 

By Wojciech Zurawski 

KRAKOW, Poland (Reuters) - Thousands of Poles turned out to mourn Nobel 
Prize-winning poet Czeslaw Milosz Friday, ignoring protests from a small group of 
conservatives who opposed his burial alongside national heroes. 
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From alphavil  Sat Aug 28 01:27:37 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 01:27:37 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Who's got Che's watch?
In-Reply-To: <20040826173522.29246.qmail@web40421.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040826173522.29246.qmail@web40421.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <413017C9.1010901@ix.netcom.com>

Four Terrorists Join GOP Platform:
A Present For Poppy; Bush Jr.'s White House Arranges Pardons For Some Of 
Bush Sr.'s Favorite Terrorists:
"It must be the Old Butcher's birthday," Scott McLellan Tells Press:
Administration Denies U.S. Taxpayer Bank Role in Cuban Exiles' Pardon:
Panama Frees 4 Convicted in Plot To Kill Civilians, Bombing of Airliner

By GLENN KEESTER
The Assassinated Press Writer
Friday, August 27, 2004

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/keester3.htm





From marcus  Sat Aug 28 08:50:41 2004
From: marcus (Marcus Bales)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:50:41 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poland Buries Nobel Poet
In-Reply-To: <1d4.297b85eb.2e6127bb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>

Poland Buries Nobel Poet. Had to. Dead, you know.







From clitophon  Sat Aug 28 09:12:59 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 06:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] the engine
In-Reply-To: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040828131259.76667.qmail@web40402.mail.yahoo.com>

I've noticed that my website: www.theengine.net
is censored by the NI state.  In other words it cannot
be accessed in a public library or in any other public
space.  This is illegal because of the inalienable
human right to free speech.  Can you tell as many
people as you know about this and ask them to enter
the website and leave a comment?
best wishes,
Paul Murphy


	
		
__________________________________
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From marcus  Sat Aug 28 09:28:12 2004
From: marcus (Marcus Bales)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 09:28:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] the engine
In-Reply-To: <20040828131259.76667.qmail@web40402.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>
Message-ID: <4130502C.31429.32DBEE@localhost>

On 28 Aug 2004 at 6:12, Paul Murphy wrote:
> I've noticed that my website: www.theengine.net
> is censored by the NI state.  In other words it cannot
> be accessed in a public library or in any other public
> space.  This is illegal because of the inalienable
> human right to free speech.<

This is an example of confusion between "illegal" and "immoral" that 
will not stand you in good stead in this matter. A little research 
into what "illegal" means, and how it differs from claims of 
"immoral", may be in order.

Marcus








From alphavil  Sat Aug 28 10:20:04 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:20:04 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poland Buries Nobel Poet
In-Reply-To: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>
References: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>
Message-ID: <41309494.4030902@ix.netcom.com>

How could they tell?

Marcus Bales wrote:

>Poland Buries Nobel Poet. Had to. Dead, you know.
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From clitophon  Sat Aug 28 11:54:04 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:54:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] the engine
In-Reply-To: <4130502C.31429.32DBEE@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040828155404.6919.qmail@web40402.mail.yahoo.com>

this is a clear contravention of the protocols of the
European Court of Human Rights
--- Marcus Bales <marcus at designerglass.com> wrote:

> On 28 Aug 2004 at 6:12, Paul Murphy wrote:
> > I've noticed that my website: www.theengine.net
> > is censored by the NI state.  In other words it
> cannot
> > be accessed in a public library or in any other
> public
> > space.  This is illegal because of the inalienable
> > human right to free speech.<
> 
> This is an example of confusion between "illegal"
> and "immoral" that 
> will not stand you in good stead in this matter. A
> little research 
> into what "illegal" means, and how it differs from
> claims of 
> "immoral", may be in order.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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From grahamd  Sat Aug 28 12:02:35 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:02:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] More Milosz
Message-ID: <BD5616CA.ACAC%grahamd@ripon.edu>

 Encounter



          --Czeslaw Milosz (1911-2004)


We were riding through frozen fields in a wagon at dawn.
A red wing rose in the darkness.

And suddenly a hare ran across the road.
One of us pointed to it with his hand.

That was long ago. Today neither of them is alive,
Not the hare, nor the man who made the gesture.

O my love, where are they, where are they going
The flash of a hand, streak of movement, rustle of pebbles.
I ask not in sorrow, but in wonder.


                         Wilno, 1936


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From cc  Sat Aug 28 13:13:04 2004
From: cc (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:13:04 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Poems by others: Octavio Paz,
	"On Reading John Cage"
In-Reply-To: <200408281557.i7SFv1YD024000@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHKEKECPAA.cc@opus0.com>

Hal, 
My favorite Paz poem!
yrs,Cc




From anny.ballardini  Sat Aug 28 18:45:32 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:45:32 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Edwin Williamson's Borges biography 
References: <1a5.2793d335.2e6127b4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00fa01c48d50$bacc2e60$1d8e3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Thank you for this article, as it might be clear by now, I love Borges' work. I knew of his solitude, which comes back when one dedicates some time to the poet. The fact of knowing that it was triggered by Lange does not change much, maybe makes an event of his life more human and therefore more similar to ours.

But what I wanted to comment is this paragraph:
As he entered old age, and as his blindness continued to envelope him, Borges' political thoughts became enmeshed with a lifetime of private associations and personal disappointments. His late, rather sudden international fame thrust him into the spotlight at a time of intense political activism. Uncomfortable to the point of guilt about the incessant praise being directed at him, he began displaying a contrarian streak during interviews. He angered many, for instance, by dismissing the Malvinas (Falkland Islands) war as "two bald men fighting over a comb." 
I was at the Malvinas or Falkland Islands. I have no idea why people were angered with Borges. I was working on a cruise ship which could not enter the port because of a storm, those who wanted to visit were taken ashore by life boats, I went with the tourists. It was cold, windy, rainy. The town was nothing but a village with one pub and a tiny shop. Everybody went to these two places since there was nothing to visit, and at the pub my friend and I met a guy who took us to his home, offered us a good warm tea, sent his two daughters to the shop to buy chocolate, one of their few goods, from the back-door otherwise we wouldn't have been able to get anything seen the sudden crowd. He was the news-maker of the islands, journalist for the only newspaper, spoke on the radio, and took us for a tour by car. People lived on sheep, the landscape barren without trees. He told us stories about wreckages, ghost ships, of seas. Finally back to his house he didn't even want us to pay for the chocolate his daughters were able to get, we thanked and went to the appointment with the life boats to get back to the ship. 

A couple of years later England and Argentina were throwing bombs on the head of that tiny bunch of shepherds.

This is what I wrote at the time on a newpaper to let people know.

Take care, Anny 

  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 2:11 AM


  http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040815/news_lz1v15magic.html

  Moreover, Williamson has discovered a major thread in Borges' life. >From the Preface: 

  "I began to suspect that [Borges'] insistence on amending or erasing his youthful writings was motivated not so much by an aversion to his early poetics as by a wish to cover up some matter that had caused him particular pain. In due course I was able to gather evidence that revealed that he had indeed undergone an experience in his mid-twenties that had driven him to the brink of suicide and almost destroyed him as a writer. Borges never directly spoke of this experience, but it became evident that it had been pivotal to his development, for it was as a result of that trauma that he ceased being a poet, and it was largely on account of it that he discovered the kind of writing that would eventually make his name." 







------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From alphavil  Sat Aug 28 18:52:36 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 18:52:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] More Milosz
In-Reply-To: <BD5616CA.ACAC%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BD5616CA.ACAC%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <41310CB4.8010703@ix.netcom.com>

Czeslaw Milosz brings back one singular, fond moment for some of the 
poets and readers of poetry in Washington DC---the day we drove David 
Streitfeld of the Washington Post from the walls of our revered city.

David was a long time reviewer and literary commentator for the Post who 
was not shy in expressing his taste in bitterly dismissive tones. David 
derided the moderns specifically Joyce and Pound. When the opportunity 
arose he ridiculed Olson, Zukofsky, Dorn et al, those who followed the 
moderns. He attacked the beats and despised any third world poet who 
decried western capital which translated into he pretty much hated them 
all. Philosophers like Adorno, Lacan, Derrida and Heidegger were subject 
to the inchoate wrath of David. 'France 1968' was such a year and place 
of infamy at the Post and in David's fevered brain, it outscored Germany 
of 1933 for historical scorn.

David never seemed to know much about any of the poetry he criticized 
especially the moderns and backed down when challenged face to face and 
ignored you if you wrote to him at the paper challenging an assertion he 
made. He admitted to me a number of times that he couldn't read Joyce or 
Pound---too willfully difficult. Aime Cesaire or Phan Van Tri were to 
blindly anti-great white hunter for someone who suffered from 
Putz-Schmekelkopf like David.

And after savaging what he could not understand, David always presented 
his universal poetic counterweight to what terrified and intimidated 
him. Yes, Czeslaw Milosz whom David dubbed the greatest poet of the 20th 
century.

After an offhanded and ignorant remark, I think, about Pound or possibly 
Holderlin or Byron, David launched into another paean on the great 
Milosz, proud possessor of the Dynamite Prize and the checklist of world 
insipidity that doubled as his canon.

The city had had enough and anybody who gave a rat's ass about poetry 
other than the usual sychophants, decided to set the record straight and 
wrote Streifeld to the effect that as an arbiter of poetic taste, he was 
limited and limiting.

Two weeks after the spontaneous attck Streitfeld announced he was 
leaving the Post to write about the future of the internet, 
coincidentally about a month before the internet bubble burst. He has 
apparently landed at the L.A. Times. He said poetry was too rough and a 
couple of Washington poets were downright ruffians. He said before he 
left, he was going to burn all of his books with Marxism, 
Deconstruction, Postmodernism and Frankfurt School in the title, to 
which the poet Joe Brennan answered "You should rush over and by those 
books, Parcelli. They're unread. They must be in like new condition."

David had his compacities that were easily outstripped by some of the 
poetic citizenry who didn't have public venues. Always a situation of 
eliticism against simmering discontent.

Its pleasant having David gone. He was replaced by the bland Linton 
Weeks is no more or less knowledgable than Streitfeld, but knows better 
than to throw hacks up in your face as though they are the second coming 
especially around serious working poets who know the value of their 
masters. CP





And

David Graham wrote:

> Encounter
>
>
>
>          --Czeslaw Milosz (1911-2004)
>
>
>We were riding through frozen fields in a wagon at dawn.
>A red wing rose in the darkness.
>
>And suddenly a hare ran across the road.
>One of us pointed to it with his hand.
>
>That was long ago. Today neither of them is alive,
>Not the hare, nor the man who made the gesture.
>
>O my love, where are they, where are they going
>The flash of a hand, streak of movement, rustle of pebbles.
>I ask not in sorrow, but in wonder.
>
>
>                         Wilno, 1936
>
>
>====================================================
>David Graham
>grahamd at ripon.edu
>Home Page:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>Poetry Library:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>====================================================
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From ron.silliman  Sun Aug 29 06:12:53 2004
From: ron.silliman (Ron)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 06:12:53 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <000001c48db0$c2d5d290$6401a8c0@Dell>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT TOPICS:

Greetings from San Antonio

Collaborations of unfathomable familiarity -
Francie Shaw & Bob Perelman's Playing Bodies

David Perry's New Years -
Kicking it up a notch or two

Elizabeth Willis' Meteoric Flowers -
Too much perfection, not enough risk

Joanne Kyger's God Never Dies -
When exactness is everything

Vacation reading list(s)

Two notes on Rem Koolhaas,
Frank Gehry & post-avant architecture
in Seattle

After The Alphabet

Two new important poetry sites:
Mini-mag's PhillySound feature &
audios from the Carrboro (NC) Poetry Festival

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/






From halvard  Sun Aug 29 09:50:52 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:50:52 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Poems by others: Octavio Paz,
	"On Reading John Cage"
In-Reply-To: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHKEKECPAA.cc@opus0.com>
References: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHKEKECPAA.cc@opus0.com>
Message-ID: <f160a12104082906501befc877@mail.gmail.com>

Glad you're pleased to see it, CC.

Hal

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:13:04 -0700, Crisman Cooley <cc at opus0.com> wrote:

> Hal,
> My favorite Paz poem!
> yrs,Cc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


-- 
Hal      "Those who cast the ballots decide nothing.
            Those who count the ballots decide everything."
                                    --Joseph Stalin
             

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard



From jnewberry1974  Sun Aug 29 12:00:11 2004
From: jnewberry1974 (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:00:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others:  Philip Levine, "Philosophy Lesson"
Message-ID: <20040829160011.91751.qmail@web52608.mail.yahoo.com>


 

Philosophy Lesson
from *The Mercy*
Philip Levine

After driving all night 
I stopped for coffee and eggs 
at a diner halfway to 
New York City. The waitress 
behind the counter looked up 
from her magazine and said, 
"Look who's here!" clapped her hands 
together and broke into 
a huge smile. "Have I been here 
before?" I asked. "Beats the shit 
out of me," she said and put 
a glass of cloudy water 
in front of me. "What'll it be?" 
One war was closing down 
in Asia to be followed 
by another. No longer 
a kid, I wondered who was 
I that a gray - haired woman 
up all night in a road - side 
hole would greet me like a star. 
"What do you think of Sartre 
and the Existentialists?" 
I asked. "We get the eggs fresh 
from down the road, my old man 
bakes the bread and sweet rolls. 
It's all good." It's not often 
you get the perfect answer 
to such a profound question. 
On the way back to the truck 
I listened to the pebbles 
crunching under my wing-tips, 
watched two huge crows watching me 
from a sad maple, smelled 
the fishy air blowing in 
from Lake Eire, and thought, "Some 
things are too good to be true." 



Jeff Newberry
 
"Sometimes it's not so easy,
especially when your only friend
talks, sees, looks and feels like you,
and you do just the same as him."
--Jimi Hendrix, "My Friend"
		
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From grahamd  Sun Aug 29 13:30:01 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:30:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Philip Levine, "Philosophy Lesson"
In-Reply-To: <20040829160011.91751.qmail@web52608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BD577CC8.AD10%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Thanks for this.  This is one of my favorite recent Levine poems, though I
wish he hadn't thought it necessary to point the moral at the end.  Like
many admirable poets Levine has lost a bit of spark and grown more diffuse
and self-indulgent as he's aged, but I still buy every new book of his in
hardcover.

Here's a favorite of mine:


You Can Have It

 
My brother comes home from work
and climbs the stairs to our room.
I can hear the bed groan and his shoes drop
one by one. You can have it, he says.

The moonlight streams in the window
and his unshaven face is whitened
like the face of the moon. He will sleep
long after noon and waken to find me gone.

Thirty years will pass before I remember
that moment when suddenly I knew each man
has one brother who dies when he sleeps
and sleeps when he rises to face this life,

and that together they are only one man
sharing a heart that always labours, hands
yellowed and cracked, a mouth that gasps
for breath and asks, Am I gonna make it?

All night at the ice plant he had fed
the chute its silvery blocks, and then I
stacked cases of orange soda for the children
of Kentucky, one gray boxcar at a time

with always two more waiting. We were twenty
for such a short time and always in
the wrong clothes, crusted with dirt
and sweat. I think now we were never twenty.

In 1948 the city of Detroit, founded
by de la Mothe Cadillac for the distant purposes
of Henry Ford, no one wakened or died,
no one walked the streets or stoked a furnace,

for there was no such year, and now
that year has fallen off all the old newspapers,
calanders, doctors' appointments, bonds
wedding certificates, drivers licenses.

The city slept. The snow turned to ice.
The ice to standing pools or rivers
racing in the gutters. Then the bright grass rose
between the thousands of cracked squares,

and that grass died. I give you back 1948.
I give you all the years from then
to the coming one. Give me back the moon
with its frail light falling across a face.

Give me back my young brother, hard
and furious, with wide shoulders and a curse
for God and burning eyes that look upon
all creation and say, You can have it.

Philip Levine.  *7 Years from Somewhere*.  Atheneum, 1979.


on 8/29/04 11:00 AM, Jeff Newberry at jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com wrote:

 

Philosophy Lesson
from *The Mercy*
Philip Levine 

After driving all night
I stopped for coffee and eggs
at a diner halfway to
New York City. The waitress
behind the counter looked up
from her magazine and said,
"Look who's here!" clapped her hands
together and broke into
a huge smile. "Have I been here
before?" I asked. "Beats the shit
out of me," she said and put
a glass of cloudy water
in front of me. "What'll it be?"
One war was closing down
in Asia to be followed
by another. No longer
a kid, I wondered who was
I that a gray - haired woman
up all night in a road - side
hole would greet me like a star.
"What do you think of Sartre
and the Existentialists?"
I asked. "We get the eggs fresh
from down the road, my old man
bakes the bread and sweet rolls.
It's all good." It's not often
you get the perfect answer
to such a profound question.
On the way back to the truck
I listened to t! he pebbles
crunching under my wing-tips,
watched two huge crows watching me
from a sad maple, smelled
the fishy air blowing in
from Lake Eire, and thought, "Some
things are too good to be true."


Jeff Newberry




====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From anna_beth_young  Sun Aug 29 16:54:19 2004
From: anna_beth_young (Anna Young)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 13:54:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Philip Levine, "Philosophy Lesson"
In-Reply-To: <BD577CC8.AD10%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <20040829205419.79317.qmail@web51308.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for posting, "You Can Have It", David -- it is my favorite Levine poem also. And, you are quite right about the loss of spark in older age. Some poets only get better as they age, though: Polish women poets W. Scumborska or Ana Swir or Anna Kamenska for example. (Some people may argue that Kunitz also got better as he got older). In any case, thanks for reminding me again of this beautiful poem. Anna.

David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu> wrote:Thanks for this.  This is one of my favorite recent Levine poems, though I wish he hadn't thought it necessary to point the moral at the end.  Like many admirable poets Levine has lost a bit of spark and grown more diffuse and self-indulgent as he's aged, but I still buy every new book of his in hardcover.

Here's a favorite of mine:


You Can Have It


My brother comes home from work 
and climbs the stairs to our room. 
I can hear the bed groan and his shoes drop 
one by one. You can have it, he says. 

The moonlight streams in the window 
and his unshaven face is whitened 
like the face of the moon. He will sleep 
long after noon and waken to find me gone. 

Thirty years will pass before I remember 
that moment when suddenly I knew each man 
has one brother who dies when he sleeps 
and sleeps when he rises to face this life, 

and that together they are only one man 
sharing a heart that always labours, hands 
yellowed and cracked, a mouth that gasps 
for breath and asks, Am I gonna make it? 

All night at the ice plant he had fed 
the chute its silvery blocks, and then I 
stacked cases of orange soda for the children 
of Kentucky, one gray boxcar at a time 

with always two more waiting. We were twenty 
for such a short time and always in 
the wrong clothes, crusted with dirt 
and sweat. I think now we were never twenty. 

In 1948 the city of Detroit, founded 
by de la Mothe Cadillac for the distant purposes 
of Henry Ford, no one wakened or died, 
no one walked the streets or stoked a furnace, 

for there was no such year, and now 
that year has fallen off all the old newspapers, 
calanders, doctors' appointments, bonds 
wedding certificates, drivers licenses. 

The city slept. The snow turned to ice. 
The ice to standing pools or rivers 
racing in the gutters. Then the bright grass rose 
between the thousands of cracked squares, 

and that grass died. I give you back 1948. 
I give you all the years from then 
to the coming one. Give me back the moon 
with its frail light falling across a face. 

Give me back my young brother, hard 
and furious, with wide shoulders and a curse 
for God and burning eyes that look upon 
all creation and say, You can have it. 

Philip Levine.  *7 Years from Somewhere*.  Atheneum, 1979.


on 8/29/04 11:00 AM, Jeff Newberry at jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com wrote:



Philosophy Lesson
from *The Mercy*
Philip Levine 

After driving all night 
I stopped for coffee and eggs 
at a diner halfway to 
New York City. The waitress 
behind the counter looked up 
from her magazine and said, 
"Look who's here!" clapped her hands 
together and broke into 
a huge smile. "Have I been here 
before?" I asked. "Beats the shit 
out of me," she said and put 
a glass of cloudy water 
in front of me. "What'll it be?" 
One war was closing down 
in Asia to be followed 
by another. No longer 
a kid, I wondered who was 
I that a gray - haired woman 
up all night in a road - side 
hole would greet me like a star. 
"What do you think of Sartre 
and the Existentialists?" 
I asked. "We get the eggs fresh 
from down the road, my old man 
bakes the bread and sweet rolls. 
It's all good." It's not often 
you get the perfect answer 
to such a profound question. 
On the way back to the truck 
I listened to t! he pebbles 
crunching under my wing-tips, 
watched two huge crows watching me 
from a sad maple, smelled 
the fishy air blowing in 
from Lake Eire, and thought, "Some 
things are too good to be true." 


Jeff Newberry




====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


		
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From jkok  Sun Aug 29 21:21:44 2004
From: jkok (Jane Kerrigan O'Keefe)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:21:44 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Philip Levine, "Philosophy Lesson"
In-Reply-To: <BD577CC8.AD10%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BD577CC8.AD10%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <1093828904.413281283844c@mail-www4.oit.umass.edu>

Well, the difference between the two poems is vivid and a little alarming.

How DOES one guard against, um, losing the spark with age, becoming self-
indulgent?  How does one stay fiercely awake?

The subject interests me.

Kerry O'Keefe

Quoting David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>:

> Thanks for this.  This is one of my favorite recent Levine poems, though I
> wish he hadn't thought it necessary to point the moral at the end.  Like
> many admirable poets Levine has lost a bit of spark and grown more diffuse
> and self-indulgent as he's aged, but I still buy every new book of his in
> hardcover.
> 
> Here's a favorite of mine:
> 
> 
> You Can Have It
> 
>  
> My brother comes home from work
> and climbs the stairs to our room.
> I can hear the bed groan and his shoes drop
> one by one. You can have it, he says.
> 
> The moonlight streams in the window
> and his unshaven face is whitened
> like the face of the moon. He will sleep
> long after noon and waken to find me gone.
> 
> Thirty years will pass before I remember
> that moment when suddenly I knew each man
> has one brother who dies when he sleeps
> and sleeps when he rises to face this life,
> 
> and that together they are only one man
> sharing a heart that always labours, hands
> yellowed and cracked, a mouth that gasps
> for breath and asks, Am I gonna make it?
> 
> All night at the ice plant he had fed
> the chute its silvery blocks, and then I
> stacked cases of orange soda for the children
> of Kentucky, one gray boxcar at a time
> 
> with always two more waiting. We were twenty
> for such a short time and always in
> the wrong clothes, crusted with dirt
> and sweat. I think now we were never twenty.
> 
> In 1948 the city of Detroit, founded
> by de la Mothe Cadillac for the distant purposes
> of Henry Ford, no one wakened or died,
> no one walked the streets or stoked a furnace,
> 
> for there was no such year, and now
> that year has fallen off all the old newspapers,
> calanders, doctors' appointments, bonds
> wedding certificates, drivers licenses.
> 
> The city slept. The snow turned to ice.
> The ice to standing pools or rivers
> racing in the gutters. Then the bright grass rose
> between the thousands of cracked squares,
> 
> and that grass died. I give you back 1948.
> I give you all the years from then
> to the coming one. Give me back the moon
> with its frail light falling across a face.
> 
> Give me back my young brother, hard
> and furious, with wide shoulders and a curse
> for God and burning eyes that look upon
> all creation and say, You can have it.
> 
> Philip Levine.  *7 Years from Somewhere*.  Atheneum, 1979.
> 
> 
> on 8/29/04 11:00 AM, Jeff Newberry at jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Philosophy Lesson
> from *The Mercy*
> Philip Levine 
> 
> After driving all night
> I stopped for coffee and eggs
> at a diner halfway to
> New York City. The waitress
> behind the counter looked up
> from her magazine and said,
> "Look who's here!" clapped her hands
> together and broke into
> a huge smile. "Have I been here
> before?" I asked. "Beats the shit
> out of me," she said and put
> a glass of cloudy water
> in front of me. "What'll it be?"
> One war was closing down
> in Asia to be followed
> by another. No longer
> a kid, I wondered who was
> I that a gray - haired woman
> up all night in a road - side
> hole would greet me like a star.
> "What do you think of Sartre
> and the Existentialists?"
> I asked. "We get the eggs fresh
> from down the road, my old man
> bakes the bread and sweet rolls.
> It's all good." It's not often
> you get the perfect answer
> to such a profound question.
> On the way back to the truck
> I listened to t! he pebbles
> crunching under my wing-tips,
> watched two huge crows watching me
> from a sad maple, smelled
> the fishy air blowing in
> from Lake Eire, and thought, "Some
> things are too good to be true."
> 
> 
> Jeff Newberry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
> 
> 
> 






From writerslink  Mon Aug 30 00:02:51 2004
From: writerslink (Chris Mansell)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:02:51 +1000
Subject: new poetry listRe: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <E6AE175E-F7BE-11D8-AACB-000393C29586@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BD58E40B.7225%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>

Can you help for OS X front channel ...I think there might be a few of us.
Cm
On 27/8/04 10:20 AM, "Michael Snider" <mandolin at mac.com> wrote:

> Sam, what's your OS? If it's Mac OS X, I can help.  backchannel if you
> like.
> 
> On Aug 25, 2004, at 9:57 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
> 
>> In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes:
>> 
>> 
>>  Sam,
>>  ?
>>  When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save
>> the file somewhere on your computer.? You can either put it in a
>> special folder, or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>>  ?
>>  From there, you can burn the file to a cd.? Just stick in a blank
>> CD.? XP should walk you through the rest.
>>  ?
>>  Jeff Newberry
>> 
>> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>> 
>> 
>>  The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>>  ?
>> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this
>> interview from RealPlayer to cd?
>> _______________________________________________
>>  New-Poetry mailing list
>>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Jeff Newberry
>> 
>> 
>>  It's a direct stream, not a file, I think.? Any other ideas? I just
>> recorded it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the
>> sound quality isn't very
>> good._______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





From grahamd  Sun Aug 29 21:52:24 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 20:52:24 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine, "Philosophy Lesson"
In-Reply-To: <1093828904.413281283844c@mail-www4.oit.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <200408300151.i7U1pPqH099954@mail1.mx.voyager.net>

on 8/29/04 8:21 PM, Jane Kerrigan O'Keefe at jkok at hfa.umass.edu wrote:

> Well, the difference between the two poems is vivid and a little alarming.
> 
> How DOES one guard against, um, losing the spark with age, becoming self-
> indulgent?  How does one stay fiercely awake?
> 
> The subject interests me.
> 
> Kerry O'Keefe
> 

Well, good question.  But as Levine might say, it beats the shit out of me!

A very very common problem, and not limited to star poets like Levine, who
probably doesn't hear No from editors much these days.  But it probably has
more to do with age, I think, than with reputation.

And as far as that goes, someone like Levine gets a lot of slack from me,
for all he's accomplished in his career.  Besides, I don't think "Philosophy
Lesson," though clearly not as taut as early Levine, is a bad poem at all.
I like it, weak ending and all.

Perhaps Richard Wilbur had the last word on this issue years ago:

The Star System

While you're a white-hot youth, emit the rays
Which, now unmarked, shall dazzle future days.
Burn for the joy of it, and waste no juice
On hopes of prompt discovery.  Produce!

Then, white with years, live wisely and survive.
Thus you may be on hand when you arrive,
And, like Antares, rosily dilate,
And for a time be gaseous and great.

  
It could be argued that both stanzas apply to a poet like Levine. . . .

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From JforJames  Mon Aug 30 10:03:27 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:03:27 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Philip Levine, "Philosophy Lesson"
Message-ID: <be.153f4388.2e648daf@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/30/2004 9:47:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
grahamd at ripon.edu writes:
How DOES one guard against, um, losing the spark with age, becoming self-
> indulgent?  How does one stay fiercely awake?
> 
> The subject interests me.
> 
> Kerry O'Keefe
> 

Well, good question.  But as Levine might say, it beats the shit out of me!

A very very common problem, and not limited to star poets like Levine, who
probably doesn't hear No from editors much these days.  But it probably has
more to do with age, I think, than with reputation.
David/Kerry, no doubt the years taken their toll...but I think
it's important to remember that Levine (and other poets of
his era when they were younger) had  teachers who demanded 
a tauter, more rhythmic line. In Levine's case it was Yvor Winters,
and then Berryman. As a whole what we know as 'free verse'
has loosened up considerably in last 40 years; and poets
like Levine, Merwin, Rich, etc., have become looser in
their practice.
Finnegan
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From alphavil  Mon Aug 30 09:35:51 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:35:51 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Philip Levine, "Philosophy Lesson"
In-Reply-To: <1093828904.413281283844c@mail-www4.oit.umass.edu>
References: <BD577CC8.AD10%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<1093828904.413281283844c@mail-www4.oit.umass.edu>
Message-ID: <41332D37.1080701@ix.netcom.com>

<How DOES one guard against, um, losing the spark with age, becoming self-
indulgent?  How does one stay fiercely awake?>

INTEGRITY. Start to finish. CP



Jane Kerrigan O'Keefe wrote:

>Well, the difference between the two poems is vivid and a little alarming.
>
>How DOES one guard against, um, losing the spark with age, becoming self-
>indulgent?  How does one stay fiercely awake?
>
>The subject interests me.
>
>Kerry O'Keefe
>
>Quoting David Graham <grahamd at ripon.edu>:
>
>  
>
>>Thanks for this.  This is one of my favorite recent Levine poems, though I
>>wish he hadn't thought it necessary to point the moral at the end.  Like
>>many admirable poets Levine has lost a bit of spark and grown more diffuse
>>and self-indulgent as he's aged, but I still buy every new book of his in
>>hardcover.
>>
>>Here's a favorite of mine:
>>
>>
>>You Can Have It
>>
>> 
>>My brother comes home from work
>>and climbs the stairs to our room.
>>I can hear the bed groan and his shoes drop
>>one by one. You can have it, he says.
>>
>>The moonlight streams in the window
>>and his unshaven face is whitened
>>like the face of the moon. He will sleep
>>long after noon and waken to find me gone.
>>
>>Thirty years will pass before I remember
>>that moment when suddenly I knew each man
>>has one brother who dies when he sleeps
>>and sleeps when he rises to face this life,
>>
>>and that together they are only one man
>>sharing a heart that always labours, hands
>>yellowed and cracked, a mouth that gasps
>>for breath and asks, Am I gonna make it?
>>
>>All night at the ice plant he had fed
>>the chute its silvery blocks, and then I
>>stacked cases of orange soda for the children
>>of Kentucky, one gray boxcar at a time
>>
>>with always two more waiting. We were twenty
>>for such a short time and always in
>>the wrong clothes, crusted with dirt
>>and sweat. I think now we were never twenty.
>>
>>In 1948 the city of Detroit, founded
>>by de la Mothe Cadillac for the distant purposes
>>of Henry Ford, no one wakened or died,
>>no one walked the streets or stoked a furnace,
>>
>>for there was no such year, and now
>>that year has fallen off all the old newspapers,
>>calanders, doctors' appointments, bonds
>>wedding certificates, drivers licenses.
>>
>>The city slept. The snow turned to ice.
>>The ice to standing pools or rivers
>>racing in the gutters. Then the bright grass rose
>>between the thousands of cracked squares,
>>
>>and that grass died. I give you back 1948.
>>I give you all the years from then
>>to the coming one. Give me back the moon
>>with its frail light falling across a face.
>>
>>Give me back my young brother, hard
>>and furious, with wide shoulders and a curse
>>for God and burning eyes that look upon
>>all creation and say, You can have it.
>>
>>Philip Levine.  *7 Years from Somewhere*.  Atheneum, 1979.
>>
>>
>>on 8/29/04 11:00 AM, Jeff Newberry at jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>Philosophy Lesson
>>from *The Mercy*
>>Philip Levine 
>>
>>After driving all night
>>I stopped for coffee and eggs
>>at a diner halfway to
>>New York City. The waitress
>>behind the counter looked up
>>from her magazine and said,
>>"Look who's here!" clapped her hands
>>together and broke into
>>a huge smile. "Have I been here
>>before?" I asked. "Beats the shit
>>out of me," she said and put
>>a glass of cloudy water
>>in front of me. "What'll it be?"
>>One war was closing down
>>in Asia to be followed
>>by another. No longer
>>a kid, I wondered who was
>>I that a gray - haired woman
>>up all night in a road - side
>>hole would greet me like a star.
>>"What do you think of Sartre
>>and the Existentialists?"
>>I asked. "We get the eggs fresh
>>from down the road, my old man
>>bakes the bread and sweet rolls.
>>It's all good." It's not often
>>you get the perfect answer
>>to such a profound question.
>>On the way back to the truck
>>I listened to t! he pebbles
>>crunching under my wing-tips,
>>watched two huge crows watching me
>>from a sad maple, smelled
>>the fishy air blowing in
>>from Lake Eire, and thought, "Some
>>things are too good to be true."
>>
>>
>>Jeff Newberry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>====================================================
>>David Graham
>>grahamd at ripon.edu
>>Home Page:
>>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>>Poetry Library:
>>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>>====================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From Thom424  Mon Aug 30 10:09:45 2004
From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:09:45 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Query: Stafford/Jerome
Message-ID: <1ee.295a8b1a.2e648f29@aol.com>

Does anyone know the bibliographic citation for (or have a copy of) the 
article Judson Jerome wrote in his WRITER'S DIGEST column some years ago on William 
Stafford's "Traveling through the Dark"?   Essentially, Jerome dismissed the 
Stafford poem and rewrote it, claiming his version was a better one.

Feel free to backchannel.

Thanks in advance,

Thom Tammaro
Moorhead, MN

 
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From hruggier  Mon Aug 30 11:04:28 2004
From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:04:28 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Query: Stafford/Jerome
References: <1ee.295a8b1a.2e648f29@aol.com>
Message-ID: <002001c48ea2$a601f9d0$c00d9942@Helen>

I do have a copyof that - I cut it out at the time but finding it
is another matter.  I'll get back to you when I find it. 

Helen
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Thom424 at aol.com 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Query: Stafford/Jerome


  Does anyone know the bibliographic citation for (or have a copy of) the article Judson Jerome wrote in his WRITER'S DIGEST column some years ago on William Stafford's "Traveling through the Dark"?  Essentially, Jerome dismissed the Stafford poem and rewrote it, claiming his version was a better one.

  Feel free to backchannel.

  Thanks in advance,

  Thom Tammaro
  Moorhead, MN




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From jnewberry1974  Mon Aug 30 14:09:15 2004
From: jnewberry1974 (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:09:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Poet's Dead Pool
Message-ID: <20040830180915.50240.qmail@web52607.mail.yahoo.com>

What a strange link I found . . . 
 
http://deadpool.rotten.com/occupations/poet.html
 
Jeff Newberry


Jeff Newberry
 
"Sometimes it's not so easy,
especially when your only friend
talks, sees, looks and feels like you,
and you do just the same as him."
--Jimi Hendrix, "My Friend"
		
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From JforJames  Mon Aug 30 22:39:49 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:39:49 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Director of a Noted Writers Workshop Is Stepping Down
Message-ID: <36.6144fcf9.2e653ef5@aol.com>

Director of a Noted Writers Workshop Is Stepping Down
>
>August 30, 2004
>? By DINITIA SMITH
>
>The list of esteemed authors who have sprung from the
>University of Iowa Writers' Workshop reads like an honor
>roll of American letters. Flannery O'Connor, Tennessee
>Williams, John Irving, Raymond Carver, John Gardner studied
>there. And the poets! Anthony Hecht, Mark Strand, Rita
>Dove, Jorie Graham and on and on. Robert Lowell, John
>Berryman, Kurt Vonnegut taught at Iowa.
>
>Now, after directing this literary powerhouse for 18 years,
>Frank Conroy has announced he is leaving and is willing to
>reveal the secret to his success: "I wing it.''
>
>He is only half kidding. Unlike some other writing programs
>- the Johns Hopkins Writing Seminars, for instance, where
>John Barth's looming presence drew many students interested
>in his particular brand of postmodern experimentalism -
>Iowa has never born the stamp of a single aesthetic. In one
>class at Iowa in the early 70's, there was T. C. Boyle,
>Allan Gurganus, Ron Hansen, Jane Smiley, Richard Bausch,
>all of them taught by John Cheever. And they couldn't be
>more different in style.
>
>"I have no theoretical ax to grind," Mr. Conroy, 68, said
>in a telephone interview from Iowa City. "I'm most
>interested in writing itself, for itself, rather than how
>it fits into a theory of literature."
>
>As a result, there are no required academic courses at the
>workshop, which offers a two-year master of fine arts
>program. Students have always concentrated on just plain
>writing.
>
>Chris Offutt, who was Mr. Conroy's student at Iowa in the
>late 1980's and now teaches there regularly, says that "the
>supreme Conroyvian lesson'' is clarity. "The crucial detail
>that allows you to see the whole image."
>
>"He likes a beginning, middle and end," Mr. Offutt added.
>"Classic, well-made writing." Mr. Offutt's first book,
>"Kentucky Straight," came out of the workshop. Mr. Conroy's
>other students have included Jayne Anne Phillips, Adam
>Haslett and Anthony Swofford. Last year Mr. Conroy had an
>operation for colon cancer, and he said now it was time for
>him to get on with his own writing. He is the author of
>"Stop-Time,'' a classic coming-of-age memoir, and several
>other books, including "Body and Soul,'' a novel. Most
>recently he published "Time and Tide : A Walk Through
>Nantucket.'' He plans to leave as director in August 2005,
>though he will continue to teach there. A search committee
>will look for a replacement.
>
>He will be leaving the workshop a richer place. Iowa became
>a full-fledged program in 1936. Classes were originally
>held in Quonset huts. In 1941 the poet Paul Engle took it
>over and nurtured it for 26 years.
>
>Since Mr. Conroy arrived, he has brought in more financial
>aid for students. Tuition is now about $6,000. Meanwhile
>applications have more than doubled, growing along with the
>number of the nation's writing programs. Last year, Mr.
>Conroy said, there were 750 applications in prose for 25
>places, and 350 poetry applications for 25 places. More of
>the program's students are becoming published writers and
>winning prizes, and agents and editors regularly journey to
>Iowa to scout new talent.
>
>Mr. Conroy is known for reading every application and
>vigorously supporting his students. No one can spot young
>talent better than he, Mr. Gurganus said. And once he picks
>them, "he's a great enthusiast. He talks about the latest
>class as if it were the same group he hung out with as a
>young man in New York," in Elaine's: William Styron, Norman
>Mailer, Bruce Jay Friedman.
>
>"He's bringing along the farm team of American literature,"
>Mr. Gurganus said.
>
>Under Mr. Conroy, the workshop has also gotten its own
>building, a creamy-brown 1840's mansion on Clinton Street,
>with white trim, where students can mingle and keep
>separate from the university. Mr. Conroy said he had found
>an "angel" who has offered to give the workshop $1 million
>for its own library if he can match the funds. Tuition is
>now $6,000, though most students receive financial aid.
>
>Mr. Conroy added another full-time professor, and increased
>the number of visiting faculty. "He is totally in touch
>with what's happening in publishing, what are the exciting
>new voices," Mr. Gurganus said. "Part of the genius of the
>place is they bring in people who testify to their worth
>from their own work. They are brought in only on the basis
>of their writing. They're not academics transferring from
>place to place."
>
>Over the years at Iowa, as in any place where writers
>gather and alcohol is consumed, legends arise: that Robert
>Bly, for instance, whenever criticism got too mean in his
>seminar, would release a snake from his bag; that Dylan
>Thomas (naturally) fell down three flights of hotel stairs
>when he visited. Mr. Conroy has evolved some of his own
>legends. One is that he played piano with the Rolling
>Stones for the song "Brown Sugar" when they were preparing
>for a tour. "It's something he's said," Mr. Gurganus
>asserted, when he has had a few drinks. Mr. Conroy said it
>was true.
>
>Mr. Conroy said he would stay in Iowa City, with its
>tree-lined streets, its Victorian homes, its cafes, in
>winter. And then to his house on Nantucket in the summer.
>
>What's his new book going to be about? Mr. Conroy was
>asked. He wouldn't say.
>
>"If you talk about it," he said, "it will disappear."
>
>
>Dinitia Smith
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/30/books/30conr.html?ex=1094896691&ei=1&
en=2d55d2bb3fa6ba4c
>
>Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

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From JforJames  Tue Aug 31 08:33:27 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:33:27 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Zukofsky fest
Message-ID: <1e3.2957e8f8.2e65ca17@aol.com>

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/news/04/08/louisZukofsky.html

International Gathering to Celebrate Poet Louis Zukofsky, 
Sept. 17-19

"Zukofsky inspired a generation of poets, although his own work during his 
lifetime was obscured and neglected," Gavronsky said. "William Carlos Williams 
called him 'the most important and the most neglected poet of our time,' and I 
think this is quite true. His work should be better known, and we hope this 
centennial conference will expand his devotees."
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From JforJames  Tue Aug 31 08:38:17 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:38:17 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Writers House Fellows 2005
Message-ID: <84.32510aef.2e65cb39@aol.com>

From: owner-whworldpoets at writing.upenn.edu
To: Al Filreis
Sent: 8/31/2004 7:05 AM
Subject: Writers House Fellows 2005

Friends: Please note. Each of these visits includes a live participatory
webcast. For details, write to whfellow at writing.upenn.edu. - Al Filreis

------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----


                      I came to explore the wreck.
                      The words are purposes.
                      The words are maps.
                            --Adrienne Rich
                    


The community of writers, artists and critics at the Kelly Writers House
is pleased to announce our 2005 WRITERS HOUSE FELLOWS:


                        ROGER ANGELL - February 7-8

                          E. L. DOCTOROW - March 21-22

                          ADRIENNE RICH - April 18-19


and              LYN HEJINIAN - February 21-22 (rescheduled
from '04)


        http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~whfellow/

Writers House Fellows events are free and open to the public--at the
Kelly
Writers House, 3805 Locust Walk, University of Pennsylvania. For more
information, write to << whfellow at writing.upenn.edu >>.

In the Writers House Fellows Seminar, students will study the work of
the
three Fellows; the course is taught Kelly Professor of English and
Writers
House Faculty Director, Al Filreis. This year's coordinator of the
program is
Phil Sandick (C'03).

            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

                    Writers House Fellows is made
                    possible by a generous grant
                    from Paul Kelly.

                    previous Writers House Fellows:

                    Russell Banks        2004
                    Lyn Hejinian
                    James Alan McPherson
                    Susan Sontag            2003
                    Walter Bernstein
                    Laurie Anderson
                    John Ashbery        2002
                    Charles Fuller
                    Michael Cunningham
                    June Jordan        2001
                    David Sedaris
                    Tony Kushner
                    Grace Paley        2000
                    Robert Creeley
                    John Edgar Wideman
                    Gay Talese        1999


   recordings of live webcasts featuring the Fellows can be found here:

        http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/webcasts/
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From JforJames  Tue Aug 31 12:43:00 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:43:00 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] More on Kooser
Message-ID: <1f1.296ae8da.2e660494@aol.com>

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20040829/1008026.asp
"Kooser has written more perfect poems than any poet of his generation," 
stated Dana Gioia, poet and National Endowment for the Arts chairman. 
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From JforJames  Tue Aug 31 19:09:28 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:09:28 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Well put: Arendt
Message-ID: <27.6076cb28.2e665f28@aol.com>

Poetry, whose material is language, is perhaps the most 
human and least worldly of the arts, the one in which the 
end product remains closest to the thought that inspired 
it.... Of all things of thought, poetry is the closest to 
thought, and a poem is less a thing than any other work 
of art      
     --Hannah Arendt, The Human Condition, ch. 23
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From ron.silliman  Mon Aug  2 07:28:13 2004
From: ron.silliman (Ron)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:28:13 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <000601c47883$cfa25df0$6501a8c0@Dell>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT TOPICS:

To construct a community:
Tucson & the work of Tenney Nathanson

Spring & All, Roots and Branches
and Charles Bernstein's The Sophist

To construct a book:
The pterodactyl in the garden
(Charles Bernstein's The Sophist)

The text, the beloved?
Charles Bernstein's The Simply
(is not) -
Opening The Sophist

Getting ready (or not)
for The Sophist

Ron Silliman - forthcoming readings
Seattle, NYC, SF,
Lawrence Kansas,
Philly & DC

What happens when you read poetry
for the very first time?

English as percussion -
On Clark Coolidge's ear

Blogging & public intellectuals -
The New York Review of Books:
Stillborn again

What is the role of expectation in art?

An MFA student asks
where to begin

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/






From writerslink  Mon Aug  2 09:29:18 2004
From: writerslink (Chris Mansell)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 23:29:18 +1000
Subject: new poetry list[New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
In-Reply-To: <000601c47883$cfa25df0$6501a8c0@Dell>
Message-ID: <BD347ECE.61FA%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>

Ron your blog seems to be blocked. It won't load. Is anyone else having this
problem?

All the best
Chris 

--
Chris Mansell
www.chris.mansell.name
www.presspress.com.au

On 2/8/04 9:28 PM, "Ron" <ron.silliman at verizon.net> wrote:

> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
> 
> RECENT TOPICS:




From anny.ballardini  Mon Aug  2 13:28:42 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:28:42 +0200
Subject: new poetry list[New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
References: <BD347ECE.61FA%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <000701c478b6$284f8ea0$4e607550@yourpk9x5fuc06>

I have the same prob.
 Anny


From: "Chris Mansell" <writerslink at ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:29 PM


> Ron your blog seems to be blocked. It won't load. Is anyone else having
this
> problem?
>
> All the best
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Mansell
> www.chris.mansell.name
> www.presspress.com.au
>
> On 2/8/04 9:28 PM, "Ron" <ron.silliman at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
> >
> > RECENT TOPICS:
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From JforJames  Mon Aug  2 22:27:03 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:27:03 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry via Wittgenstein
Message-ID: <154.3b65d880.2e4051f7@aol.com>

http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/philosophy_and_literature/v027/27.1pierce.pdf

If you are interested in the insoluble questions,
here's a free article from Project Muse.
The author uses Wittgenstein's concept
of "family resemblance" to discuss what it is
that makes a poem a 'poem'.
Finnegan
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From bobgrumman  Tue Aug  3 07:09:22 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 07:09:22 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry via Wittgenstein
References: <154.3b65d880.2e4051f7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <005501c4794a$56d22550$45efa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>


If you are interested in the insoluble questions,
here's a free article from Project Muse.
The author uses Wittgenstein's concept
of "family resemblance" to discuss what it is
that makes a poem a 'poem'.
Finnegan 
The definition of poetry is not insoluble just because there will always be people who refuse to accept its definition.  As for the "family resemblance" definition given in the essay James sends us to, it's neither new nor useful.  The essay merely proves the valuelessness of Wittgenstein.

--Bob G.


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From marcus  Tue Aug  3 08:07:10 2004
From: marcus (Marcus Bales)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 08:07:10 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry via Wittgenstein
In-Reply-To: <005501c4794a$56d22550$45efa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <410F47AE.17527.4B42F6@localhost>

On 3 Aug 2004 at 7:09, Bob Grumman wrote:
> The definition of poetry is not insoluble just because there will
> always be people who refuse to accept its definition. As for the
> "family resemblance" definition given in the essay James sends us to,
> it's neither new nor useful. The essay merely proves the valuelessness
> of Wittgenstein. --Bob G. 

I do not agree with most of Mr Pierce's proposal, either, but Mr 
Grumman's ignorance of philosophy and science is even more profound 
than even I thought if he really means to stand by the notion that 
Wittgenstein's work is valueless. 

Marcus





From bobgrumman  Tue Aug  3 10:04:45 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:04:45 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] defining poetry via Wittgenstein
References: <410F47AE.17527.4B42F6@localhost>
Message-ID: <00b901c47962$ea1028e0$45efa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> > The definition of poetry is not insoluble just because there will
> > always be people who refuse to accept its definition. As for the
> > "family resemblance" definition given in the essay James sends us to,
> > it's neither new nor useful. The essay merely proves the valuelessness
> > of Wittgenstein. --Bob G.
>
> I do not agree with most of Mr Pierce's proposal, either, but Mr
> Grumman's ignorance of philosophy and science is even more profound
> than even I thought if he really means to stand by the notion that
> Wittgenstein's work is valueless.
>
> Marcus

Nothing's valueless.  Make that "close to valueless."  (Don't worry, James.
I think Marcus has made his point, and I mine, so we won't start another
MarcusBob.)

--Bob G.





From halvard  Tue Aug  3 11:14:06 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:14:06 -0400
Subject: new poetry list[New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
In-Reply-To: <000701c478b6$284f8ea0$4e607550@yourpk9x5fuc06>
References: <BD347ECE.61FA%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>
	<000701c478b6$284f8ea0$4e607550@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <f160a12104080308146d6867f9@mail.gmail.com>

Just for the record, accessing Ron's blog hasn't been
a problem here.

Hal

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:28:42 +0200, Anny Ballardini
<anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
> I have the same prob.
> Anny
> 
> From: "Chris Mansell" <writerslink at ozemail.com.au>
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 3:29 PM
> 
> > Ron your blog seems to be blocked. It won't load. Is anyone else having
> this
> > problem?
> >
> > All the best
> > Chris
> >
> > --
> > Chris Mansell
> > www.chris.mansell.name
> > www.presspress.com.au
> >
> > On 2/8/04 9:28 PM, "Ron" <ron.silliman at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > RECENT TOPICS:
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


-- 
Hal                Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam.

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard



From crystallyn  Tue Aug  3 21:49:42 2004
From: crystallyn (Crystal King)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:49:42 -0400
Subject: new poetry list[New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
In-Reply-To: <f160a12104080308146d6867f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BD347ECE.61FA%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>
	<000701c478b6$284f8ea0$4e607550@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<f160a12104080308146d6867f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d03e49bc04080318492a7e73cd@mail.gmail.com>

Try reloading if it hangs...Blogspot often has problems with loading.
I can access it okay but I have often had problems with blogspot sites
in the past.

Crystal

........................................................
Hitch your wagon to a star. ~ Emerson

www.plumrubyreview.com



From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 04:32:49 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 04:32:49 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list 
Message-ID: <1dd.28080a3d.2e434ab1@aol.com>

Hey people
im ria. a stay at home mum and student with university of maryland working  
for my batchelors in psychology.
Im married to a usaf service member and we are currently in england right  
now until 2006.
our children are Amber (3) and Marcus(2)
In my spare time i love photography, art, computers but my main passion is  
poetry and creative writing.
I recently had one of my poems published back in the early part of the  year.
i look forward to getting to know everyone...
talk to you soon
Ria C
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From elemenope  Thu Aug  5 01:34:30 2004
From: elemenope (ELEMENOPE Productions)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:34:30 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
In-Reply-To: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>

Ria:

Glad to see you.  And, please, forward thanks to your husband for his service.

Best,

Richard Dillon

ELEMENOPE Productions



>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 04:32:49 EDT
>From: LiquidLoveGate at aol.com
>Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list
>To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>Message-ID: <1dd.28080a3d.2e434ab1 at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hey people
>im ria. a stay at home mum and student with university of maryland working 
>for my batchelors in psychology.
>Im married to a usaf service member and we are currently in england right 
>now until 2006.
>our children are Amber (3) and Marcus(2)
>In my spare time i love photography, art, computers but my main passion is 
>poetry and creative writing.
>I recently had one of my poems published back in the early part of the  year.
>i look forward to getting to know everyone...
>talk to you soon
>Ria C


-- 



From kpaul  Thu Aug  5 13:55:54 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:55:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] a favor?
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
Message-ID: <20040805125508.H87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>

Can anyone backchannel Marcus and ask if he's gotten my emails. If so, 
I'll stop sending them. I'm not sure, though, if he's ignoring me or not 
getting them.

thanks!
kpaul
mallasch.com/mug/




From kpaul  Thu Aug  5 13:56:09 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:56:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
In-Reply-To: <a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
Message-ID: <20040805125601.M87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>

Welcome aboard. :)

-kpaul
mallasch.com/mug/

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:

> Ria:
>
> Glad to see you.  And, please, forward thanks to your husband for his 
> service.
>
> Best,
>
> Richard Dillon
>
> ELEMENOPE Productions
>
>
>
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 04:32:49 EDT
>> From: LiquidLoveGate at aol.com
>> Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list
>> To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> Message-ID: <1dd.28080a3d.2e434ab1 at aol.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Hey people
>> im ria. a stay at home mum and student with university of maryland working 
>> for my batchelors in psychology.
>> Im married to a usaf service member and we are currently in england right 
>> now until 2006.
>> our children are Amber (3) and Marcus(2)
>> In my spare time i love photography, art, computers but my main passion is 
>> poetry and creative writing.
>> I recently had one of my poems published back in the early part of the 
>> year.
>> i look forward to getting to know everyone...
>> talk to you soon
>> Ria C
>
>
> -- 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 15:09:19 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:09:19 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
Message-ID: <1d6.27e96ee7.2e43dfdf@aol.com>

thanks for thw welcomes.. it means alot..
so what goes on around here.
are there many that post frequently.
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From kpaul  Thu Aug  5 15:12:52 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:12:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
In-Reply-To: <1d6.27e96ee7.2e43dfdf@aol.com>
References: <1d6.27e96ee7.2e43dfdf@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040805141143.W53384@kpaul.spinweb.net>

We have ups and down, spiffs and fights, make-ups, etc. ;)

Some pass on word of being published, some send poems by others, some 
debate what the meaning of the word 'is' is ...

-kpaul

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 LiquidLoveGate at aol.com wrote:

> thanks for thw welcomes.. it means alot..
> so what goes on around here.
> are there many that post frequently.
>



From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 15:19:12 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:19:12 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] new to the mailing list  (LiquidLoveGate@aol.com)
Message-ID: <8e.11868018.2e43e230@aol.com>

Sounds like my kinda thing. i always have something to say lol and if i  
wasnt interested in poetry i wouldnt be here now would i  ?!
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From gmguddi  Thu Aug  5 15:22:38 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 14:22:38 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
In-Reply-To: <20040805125601.M87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]>
	<20040805125601.M87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040805142155.0306d3e8@mail.ilstu.edu>


Republicans: A Prose Poem
Eliot Weinberger

"They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
and freedom, and individual liberty."
President George W. Bush

"I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
Vice-President Dick Cheney
-------------------------

Thomas Donahue, Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is a Republican. 
He said the newly unemployed should "stop whining."

Alfonso Jackson, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, is a 
Republican. He explained the enormous cuts to low-income housing by saying, 
"Being poor is a state of mind, not a condition."

Rick Santorum, Senator from Pennsylvania, is a Republican. He defended cuts 
to child care and welfare by suggesting that "making people struggle a 
little bit is not necessarily the worst thing."

Eric Bost, Undersecretary of Food and Nutrition, U.S. Department of 
Agriculture, is a Republican. A study by his own agency said that 34 
million Americans, including 13.6 million children under the age of 12, 
were affected by hunger, but Bost doubts these numbers: "If you ask any 
teenager if they're happy about the food they have in their house, what 
will they say?" Responding to a report that the number of people seeking 
assistance at food pantries in Ohio had increased by 44% in the last three 
years, Bost told an Ohio newspaper: "Food pantries don't require 
documentation of income. . . so there's no proof everyone asking for 
sustenance at a soup kitchen is truly in need."

Dr. Tom Coburn, former Congressman and current candidate for the Senate 
from Oklahoma, is a Republican. Dr. Coburn supports the death penalty for 
doctors who perform abortions.

Republicans do not like dogs. Major General Geoffrey Miller, former Chief 
of Prisons at Guantanamo Bay, now Director of Prisons in Iraq, said that 
"at Guantanamo Bay we learned that the prisoners have to earn every single 
thing that they have. They are like dogs and if you allow them to believe 
at any point that they are more than a dog then you've lost control of them."

Republicans like dogs. Trent Lott, Senator from Mississippi, was asked 
about the use of attack dogs in torturing an Iraqi prisoner. He replied 
that there?s "nothing wrong with holding a dog up there unless it ate him."

Republicans have a sense of history. The National Museum of Naval Aviation 
now exhibits the actual Navy S-3B Viking fighter jet that carried the 
President to the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln for his "Mission 
Accomplished" speech. It has "George W. Bush Commander-in-Chief" stenciled 
just below the cockpit window.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Ron Paige, Secretary of Education, 
called the National Education Association, with a membership of 2.7 million 
teachers, a "terrorist organization." Karen Hughes, adviser to the 
President, said that, especially after September 11, Americans support 
Bush's efforts to ban abortion because "the fundamental issue between us 
and the terror network we fight is that we value every life."

Patricia "Lynn" Scarlett, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a 
Republican. She is the former president of the Reason Foundation, a 
libertarian group, and is opposed to recycling, nutritional labeling on 
food, consumer "right to know" laws, and restrictions on the use of pesticides.

D. Nick Rerras, State Senator in Virginia, is a Republican. He believes 
that mental illness is caused by demons and, somewhat contradictorily, that 
"God may be punishing families by giving children mental illnesses." He 
also claims that "thunder and lightning mean God is mad at you."

John Yoo, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, is a Republican. In January 
2002, he sent a 42-page memo to William Haynes II, Chief Legal Counsel for 
the Pentagon, stating that the Geneva Conventions, the War Crimes Act, and 
"customary international law" do not apply to the war in Afghanistan. He 
was seconded by Alberto Gonzales, White House Legal Counsel, who wrote: "In 
my judgment, this new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva?s strict limitations 
on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its 
provisions." A few days later, the President suspended all rights for 
prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

William Haynes II, the recipient of Yoo?s memo, is a Republican. As the 
Chief Legal Counsel for the Pentagon, he argued that the Defense Department 
should be exempt from the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and allowed to test 
bombs on a Pacific Ocean nesting island. Such bombing, he said, would 
please bird-watchers, because it will make the birds more scarce, and "bird 
watchers get more enjoyment spotting a rare bird than they do spotting a 
common one." Haynes has now been nominated by the President for a lifetime 
appointment as a judge on the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Republicans like children. John Cornyn, Senator from Texas, speaking in 
support of the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, said: "It 
does not affect your daily life very much if your neighbor marries a box 
turtle. But that does not mean it is right. Now you must raise your 
children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the 
same legal footing as man and wife."

Republicans are optimistic. General Peter Schoomaker, U.S. Army Chief of 
Staff, says that, following September 11, "there is a huge silver lining in 
this cloud." He explains: "War is a tremendous focus. . . . Now we have 
this focusing opportunity, and we have the fact that terrorists have 
actually attacked our homeland, which it gives it some oomph."

Republicans do not like children. The President has never bothered to 
appoint a director of the Office of Children?s Health Protection.

Craig Manson, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a Republican. In 
charge of overseeing the Endangered Species Act, he has refused to add any 
new species to the list. He said: "If we are saying that the loss of 
species in and of itself is inherently bad -- I don't think we know enough 
about how the world works to say that."

Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor, is a Republican. Her department publishes 
a pamphlet with tips to employers about how to avoid paying overtime wages 
to workers.

Jack Kahl and his son John Kahl are Republicans and major contributors to 
the Republican Party. They are, respectively, the former and current 
chairmen and CEOs of Manco, Inc., a company in Avon, Ohio. (Motto: "If 
you?re not proud of it, don?t ship it.") Manco produces 63% of all the duct 
tape used in the USA. When the Secretary of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge, 
repeatedly urged Americans to buy plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal 
their homes from a biological or chemical attack, Manco?s sales increased 
40% overnight.

Republicans have a sense of history. Sonny Perdue, the Governor of Georgia, 
celebrated his election victory, and the end of Democratic control, by 
intoning the words of Martin Luther King: "Free at last, free at last, 
thank God Almighty, we're free at last!" He gave his speech in front of a 
large Confederate flag.

Sue Myrick, Congresswoman from North Carolina, is a Republican. As the 
keynote speaker at a Heritage Foundation conference on "The Role of State 
and Local Governments in Protecting Our Homeland," she said: "Honest to 
goodness, [my husband] Ed and I, for years, for 20 years, have been saying, 
?You know, look at who runs all the convenience stores across the country.? 
Every little town you go into, you know?"
Republicans are fighting terrorism. In the village of Prosser, Washington, 
a 15-year-old drew some antiwar cartoons in a sketchbook for art class; one 
depicted the President as a devil firing rockets. The art teacher turned 
the sketchbook over to the principal of the school, who called the local 
police chief, who alerted the Secret Service, which sent two agents to 
Prosser to interrogate the boy.

John Hostettler, Congressman from Indiana, is a Republican. He was briefly 
detained by security at the Louisville, Kentucky, airport, when they found 
a loaded Glock-9mm automatic pistol in his briefcase. In 2000, when the 
Violence Against Women Act passed Congress by a vote of 415 to 3, 
Hostettler was one of the three.

Jeffrey Holmstead, Assistant Administrator for Air and Radiation at the 
Environmental Protection Agency, is a Republican. A former lawyer for 
Montrose Chemical, American Electric Power, and various pesticide 
companies, he served under Bush Sr. on the [Dan] Quayle Council on 
Competitiveness, devoted to weakening existing environmental, health, and 
safety regulations. Holmstead is a member of the Citizens for the 
Environment, an organization that promotes "market solutions" to 
environmental problems, considers acid rain a myth, and supports the total 
deregulation of businesses.

Ed Gillespie is Chairman of the Republican National Committee. He accuses 
gays of "intolerance and bigotry" for "attempting to force the rest of the 
population to accept alien moral standards."

Al Frink is a Republican. He was appointed to the newly-created position of 
Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Manufacturing and Services, to address 
the massive loss of jobs to factories overseas. He is the co-owner of 
Fabrica, a company that makes expensive carpets for the White House and the 
Saudi royal family. (Motto: "The Rolls-Royce of Carpets.") Although Fabrica 
has no factories abroad, it has replaced many of its workers with robots 
because, as Frink?s partner explained, you don?t have to pay health 
insurance for robots.

There are American soldiers in Iraq who are Republicans. They follow the 
instructions to tear out a page from the pamphlet, "A Christian?s Duty" 
(distributed, with military approval, by the In Touch Ministries), and mail 
it to the White House, pledging that they will pray daily for the 
Administration. The pamphlet includes a suggested prayer for each day. 
"Monday" reads: "Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong 
and courageous to do what is right regardless of critics".

There are men in Indianapolis, Indiana, who are Republicans, but they don?t 
look like ordinary people. At a rally promoting Republican economic policy 
and its effect on the ordinary person, those standing behind the President 
were asked to remove their ties and jackets for the cameras.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Tim Pawlenty, Governor of Minnesota, 
wants people arrested at antiwar demonstrations? but not at other 
demonstrations? to pay an additional fine, which will be used for "homeland 
security expenses."

Republicans do not like children. A little girl asked Richard Riordan, 
Secretary of Education for the State of California, if he knew that her 
name, Isis, "meant ?Egyptian goddess.?" "It means stupid, dirty girl," 
Riordan replied.

Republicans like ice cream, but they do not like the ice cream made by Ben 
& Jerry?s, with its notorious support of progressive causes. So they have 
created their own brand, Star-Spangled Ice Cream, which has pledged 19% of 
its profits to conservative organizations. Among its flavors are I Hate the 
French Vanilla, Gun Nut, Smaller GovernMINT, Iraqi Road, and Choc & Awe.

Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, is a Republican. He opened the nation?s 
first Christian prison, where inmates spend their days in prayer and Bible 
study.

Republicans like Hummers. Those who purchase a Hummer H-1 for $50,590 
receive a tax deduction of $50,590; those who purchase a H-2 for $111,845 
receive a deduction of $107,107. "In my humble opinion," said Rick Schmidt, 
founder of the International Hummer Owners Group, "the H2 is an American 
icon. . . it's a symbol of what we all hold so dearly above all else, the 
fact we have the freedom of choice, the freedom of happiness, the freedom 
of adventure and discovery, and the ultimate freedom of expression. Those 
who deface a Hummer in words or deed deface the American flag and what it 
stands for."

Republicans like secrets. Asked by a reporter from a newspaper in Apopka, 
Florida, the White House refused to confirm or deny that it had invited 
members of the Apopka Little League team to watch a game of T-ball on the 
White House Lawn.

Republicans have a sense of history. The officials of Taney County, 
Missouri, refused to hang a "plaque of remembrance" honoring a Taney County 
resident who died in the World Trade Center on September 11 because he was 
a Democrat.

Jerry Regier, Director of the Department of Children and Families for the 
State of Florida, is a Republican. He believes that children should be 
subject to "manly" discipline, that a "biblical spanking" leading to 
"temporary and superficial bruises or welts does not constitute child 
abuse," that women should view working outside the home as "bondage," that 
Christians should not marry non-Christians, and that "the radical feminist 
movement has damaged the morale of many women and convinced men to 
relinquish their biblical authority in the home.''

Republicans have a sense of history. Bill Black, Vice Chairman of the 
California Republican Party, sent his constituents an article from the 
Center for Cultural Conservatism, which read: "Given how bad things have 
gotten in the old USA, it's not hard to believe that history might have 
taken a better turn. ... The real damage to race relations in the South 
came not from slavery, but from Reconstruction, which would not have 
occurred if the South had won."

Kathy Cox, Superintendent of Schools for the State of Georgia, is a 
Republican. She wants all textbooks in the state to be changed so that the 
word "evolution" is replaced with "biological changes over time."

Jim Bunning, Senator from Kentucky, is a Republican. He gets a laugh at 
Republican dinners by joking that his opponent in the forthcoming election, 
Dan Mongiardo, a son of Italian immigrants, looks like one of the sons of 
Saddam Hussein.

Republicans have a sense of history. The only illustrations in the federal 
budget, published annually by the Government Printing Office, are normally 
charts and graphs. This year, it features 27 color photographs of the 
President. He is seen in front of the Washington monument and in front of a 
giant American flag, reading to a small child, hacking a trail through the 
wilderness, comforting an elderly woman in a wheelchair, and serving an 
inedible food-styled Thanksgiving turkey to the troops in Iraq.

Republicans do not like almanacs. On Christmas Eve, the FBI sent a bulletin 
to 18,000 police organizations warning them to watch out-- during traffic 
stops, searches, and other investigations? for anyone carrying an almanac. 
The bulletin stated that "the practice of researching potential targets is 
consistent with known methods of al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations 
that seek to maximize the likelihood of operational success through careful 
planning." Kevin Seabrooke, senior editor of the World Almanac, may or may 
not be a Republican. "I don?t think anyone would consider us a harmful 
entity," he said.

Republicans like the Rush Limbaugh Show and like having it broadcast to the 
troops overseas, five days a week, on the official American Forces Radio 
and Television Service network. When it was suggested that they provide 
more "balanced" political programming, Sam Johnson, Congressman from Texas, 
said that it "sounds a little like Communism to me."

Stephen Downs, age 61, is probably not a Republican. He was shopping at the 
Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, when security guards surrounded 
him and asked him to leave. Downs was wearing a t-shirt with the words 
"Give Peace a Chance." He refused to leave and was arrested for trespassing.

My friend, a middle-aged white man, is not a Republican. A photographer on 
assignment for the National Geographic in Florida, he was taking pictures 
of some colorfully painted vans in a parking lot. An hour later he was 
arrested. An alert citizen, suspecting possible terrorist 
information-gathering activity, had called the police.

Herbert O. Chadbourne is probably a Republican. A professor at the 
evangelical Regent University, he developed a facial tic? the result he 
said, of exposure to biological or chemical agents when he was a soldier in 
the first Gulf War. The university, however, said that the tic was a sign 
that he was possessed by a demon, having been cursed by God for sinfulness, 
and fired him.

Jeffrey Kofman, reporter for ABC television, may not be a Republican. When 
he broadcast a story that morale among American troops in Iraq was 
weakening, the White House spread the story that not only is Kofman gay, 
he?s a Canadian.

Republicans like technology. Although most programs for low-income housing 
and job training have been greatly reduced or eliminated, the Department of 
Labor has created a website for the homeless.

Republicans like methyl bromide, a pesticide that destroys the ozone layer 
and leads to prostate cancer in farm workers. The Reagan administration and 
160 nations signed a treaty in 1987 to eliminate methyl bromide by 2005. 
The use of the pesticide has increased every year of the current 
Administration, which is seeking a waiver from compliance with the treaty. 
Claudia A. McMurray, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Environment, 
explained: "Our farmers need this."

Republicans like dog-race gamblers, NASCAR track owners, bow-and-arrow 
makers, and Oldsmobile dealers. They were among those given $170 billion in 
tax cuts that were slipped into an obscure bill intended to resolve a minor 
trade dispute with Europe.

Republicans do not like technology. On September 11, 2001, the FBI 
computers were still running on MS-DOS, which could only perform 
single-word searches of their files, and FBI agents did not have e-mail. 
They are hoping a new system will be in place in 2006.

Lieutenant General William Boykin, Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for 
Intelligence, formerly in charge of the hunt for Osama bin Laden and 
currently directing Iraqi prison reform, is a Republican. He regularly 
appears at revival meetings sponsored by a group called the Faith Force 
Multiplier, which advocates applying military principles to evangelism. Its 
manifesto, "Warrior Message," summons "warriors in this spiritual war for 
souls of this nation and the world ." Boykin preaches that "Satan wants to 
destroy this nation, he wants to destroy us as a nation, and he wants to 
destroy us as a Christian army," and that Muslims "will only be defeated if 
we come against them in the name of Jesus". He admits that "George Bush was 
not elected by a majority of the voters in the US," but adds: "He was 
appointed by God."

Kelli Arena, Justice Department correspondent for CNN, is presumably a 
Republican. She reported that "there is some speculation that al Qaeda 
believes it has a better chance of winning in Iraq if John Kerry is in the 
White House ."

William "Bucky" Bush, uncle of the President, is a Republican. He is a 
director of Engineer Support Systems, Inc., which makes military items, 
such as the Chemical Biological Protected Shelter System (a mobile shed for 
a WMD attack) or the Field Deployable Environmental Control Unit. Since 
2001, the company has had sales to the Pentagon of $300-400 million a year, 
and the Department of Homeland Security has ordered a fleet of mobile 
emergency communication centers for use in the event of a domestic 
biochemical attack. He is also a director of Lord Abbett & Co., which owns 
8 million shares of Halliburton. Jeb Bush inserted a line in the Florida 
state budget privatizing elevator inspections. "Bucky" is one of the owners 
of a company called National Elevator Inspection Services.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. In the 1980's, Bob and Todd 
Urosevich founded a voting machine company, eventually called American 
Information Systems (AIS), with money from the Ahmanson family of 
California. The Ahmansons are Christian Reconstructionists who want to 
establish a theocracy based on biblical law and under the "dominion" of 
Christians. They support the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, and 
alcoholics. They are members of the secretive Council for National Policy, 
which combines remnants of the John Birch Society with apocalyptic 
Christians and is considered by many to be the driving force of "hard 
right" ideology. The Ahmansons sold the company to the McCarthy Group, 
whose Chairman and co-owner was Chuck Hagel. The McCarthy Group bought 
another voting machine company, Cronus Industries, from the Hunt oil family 
in Texas, also Christian Reconstructionists, who had supplied the original 
money for the Council for National Policy. The two voting machine companies 
were merged and became Election Systems and Software (ES&S), with Hagel as CEO.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. ES&S counts 80% of the vote in 
the state of Nebraska. In 1996, Hagel resigned from ES&S to run for Senator 
from Nebraska. His victory was called a "stunning upset" by Nebraska 
newspapers: African-American districts that had never voted for a 
Republican voted for Hagel. In 1992, Hagel ran again and received 83% of 
the vote? 3% more than ES&S-tabulated votes and the largest election 
victory in the history of Nebraska. His Democratic opponent asked for a 
recount, but the Republican-dominated state legislature had passed a law 
that only ES&S could recount the votes. Hagel won the recount. No longer 
Chairman of the McCarthy Group, Hagel had been succeeded by Thomas 
McCarthy, who was his campaign treasurer.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. When Jeb Bush first ran for 
Governor of Florida, his first choice for Lieutenant Governor was Sandra 
Mortham, a lobbyist for ES&S, who was receiving commissions for every 
county that bought ES&S machines.

Republicans have a sense of history. John LeBoutillier, former Congressman 
and author of Harvard Hates Americia, wants to build the "Counter Clinton 
Library," a few minutes walk from the official Clinton Presidential Library 
in Little Rock, Arkansas. This library will be devoted to the "distortions, 
slanders, spins, and outright lies" of the Clinton Administration.

The Senate of the State of Texas is controlled by Republicans. They passed 
an "abortion counseling law" which requires doctors to warn women that 
abortion might lead to breast cancer, for which there is no medical evidence.

The President?s Council of Economic Advisers are Republicans. In order to 
show an increase in manufacturing jobs, they are considering reclassifying 
fast-food workers as "manufacturers," since they "manufacture" hamburgers.

Republicans like formaldehyde. In support of changing the regulations on 
emissions from plywood factories, the White House Office of Management and 
Budget deleted references to studies by the National Cancer Institute and 
replaced them with references to studies by the Chemical Industry Institute 
for Toxicology. The NCI?s estimate of the risk of leukemia from exposure to 
formaldehyde was 10,000 times greater than the estimate by the CIIT.

Specialist Sean Baker of the Kentucky National Guard, was probably once a 
Republican, but may no longer be one. Assigned to the military prison in 
Guantanamo Bay, he volunteered to portray a detainee in a training drill. A 
five-man "immediate response force" choked and beat him on the steel floor 
of the 6' x 8' cell, despite his shouting the code word and telling his 
assailants he was an American soldier. They finally stopped when his orange 
prison suit was ripped off, revealing a military uniform. Baker spent 48 
days in the hospital and still suffers from seizures. Laurie Arellano, a 
Republican and spokesperson for the Pentagon, said that Baker?s hospital 
stay was "not related to the beating at Guantanamo." A few days later she 
said this was not true. The incident was taped, but the tape has now been lost.

Bill Nevins may or may not have been a Republican, but it is doubtful he is 
still one. A teacher at the huge Rio Rancho High School-- with over 3000 
students, the largest in New Mexico? he organized a school poetry club, 
which held a Poetry Slam. At the reading, a student read a poem criticizing 
the President and the war in Iraq, in language that was neither violent or 
obscene. Nevins was immediately fired by the Principal, Gary Tripp, for 
promoting "disrespectful speech." He then banned the poetry club and all 
classes in poetry, ordered the student to destroy all of her poetry, and 
threatened to fire her mother? also a teacher at the school? if the girl 
did not. At a school assembly a few days later, Tripp read a poem of his 
own, instructing students who disagreed with him to "shut your faces."

Republicans like sex. Jack Ryan, candidate (now former candidate) for 
Senator from Illinois, forced his wife (now ex-wife) to visit sadomasochist 
sex clubs in New York and Paris and insisted she have sex with him there 
while others watched. He defended himself by calling these "romantic 
getaways," and noted,"There was no breaking of any laws. There was no 
breaking of any marriage laws. There was no breaking of the Ten 
Commandments anywhere." Republicans supported him, because, as columnist 
Robert Novack said, "Jack Ryan, unlike Bill Clinton, did not commit 
adultery and did not lie." Ryan?s ex-wife is the actress Jeri Ryan who, on 
the television program "Star Trek," portrayed a Borg. (Motto: "Resistance 
is futile.")

Republicans like meat, and like their meat regulated by people from the 
meat industry. At the US Department of Agriculture (USDA), Elizabeth 
Johnson, Senior Advisor on Food and Nutrition, is formerly Associate 
Director for Food Policy, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. James 
Moseley, Deputy Secretary of Agriculture, is formerly Managing Partner, 
Infinity Pork. Dale Moore, Chief of Staff, is formerly Executive Director 
for Legislative Affairs, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Dr. Eric 
Hentges, Director, Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, is formerly 
Vice President, the National Pork Board. Dr. Charles "Chuck" Lambert, 
Deputy Undersecretary for Marketing and Regulatory Programs, is formerly 
Chief Economist, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Donna 
Reifschneider, Administrator for Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards 
Administration, is formerly President, National Pork Producers Council. 
Mary Kirtley Waters, Assistant Secretary for Congressional Relations, is 
formerly Senior Director, ConAgra Foods. Scott Charbo, Chief Information 
Officer, is formerly President, mPower3, a subsidiary of ConAgra Foods. The 
USDA prohibited Creekstone Farms Premium Beef, a company in Kansas, from 
testing all its cattle for mad cow disease, for it would cause undue alarm 
among consumers and pressure the other beef producers to similarly test 
their stock.

Republicans like Freedom fries (formerly known as French fries). At the 
request of the frozen Freedom fry (formerly known as French fry) industry, 
the USDA changed the classification of frozen Freedom fries (formerly known 
as French fries) to "fresh vegetable," so that the food could be listed in 
the Department?s promotion of a healthy diet.

Republicans do not like sex. Robert F. McDonnell, Chairman of the House 
Courts of Justice Committee for the State of Virginia, said that "engaging 
in anal or oral sex might disqualify a person from being a judge." 
Republicans like sex. A few days later, McDonnell?s campaign manager, Robin 
Vanderwell, was arrested for soliciting a young boy over the internet.

Ralph Reed is a Republican. When he was the director of the Christian 
Coalition, he campaigned against gambling, calling it a "cancer on the 
American body politic" that is "stealing food from the mouths of children." 
He is now the lobbyist for a large casino.

Anna Perez, former Counselor for Communications to Condoleezza Rice and 
former Press Secretary for Barbara Bush, is a Republican. NBC appointed her 
Executive Vice President for Communications. "I love the television 
business," she said, although "I have no expertise in it."

Paul O?Neill is a Republican. When he was Secretary of the Treasury, he 
recommended that corporations pay no taxes at all. As it is, only 60% of 
corporations currently pay federal taxes.

Michael Skupkin, founder of a religious software company and leader of the 
Presidential Prayer Team, is a Republican. He was urged to run for Senator 
from Michigan, but eventually refused. Skupkin had become famous on the 
televison program, "Survivor 2," for catching and slaughtering a wild boar 
with his bare hands, and then painting his face with its blood. The 
Presidential Prayer Team is an independent organization with millions of 
participants, who are given daily instructions, such as: "Pray for the 
president as he meets with Singaporean Prime Minister Goh Chok Ton on May 
6. The two leaders will discuss strengthening our bilateral relations as 
well as the U.S.-Singapore Free Trade Agreement."

Mark Rey, former Vice President of the American Forest and Paper 
Association, former Vice President of the National Forest Products 
Association, former Executive Director of the American Forest Resource 
Alliance, a coalition of 350 timber corporations, is a Republican. As the 
Under Secretary for Natural Resources and the Environment, he now oversees 
the U.S. Forest Service, and is responsible for the management of 155 
national forests, 19 national grasslands, and 15 land utilization projects 
on 192,000,000 acres of publicly-owned lands in 44 states. He is the author 
of the "Salvage Rider," which suspended all environmental laws in the 
national forests, and which was called by the New York Times "the worst 
piece of conservation legislation ever written."

Republicans like electronic voting machines. 8 million people? 8% of the 
voters? vote on machines made by Diebold Inc., whose CEO is Wally O?Dell. 
In 2000 O?Dell was Chairman of the Ohio Bush for President Committee. In 
2004 he has said that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its 
electoral votes to the President." Bob Urosevich, co-founder of AIS, is now 
Director of Diebold Election Systems. (His brother remains at ES&S.)

Republicans support education. This year the President has proposed new 
education initiatives: $40 million to help math and science professionals 
become teachers, $52 million to create more Advanced Placement courses in 
high school, $100 million for reading for middle and high schoolers who 
still have trouble reading, and $270 million for sexual abstinence classes.

Republicans support legislation with cheerful names: Healthy Forests, Clean 
Skies, Climate Leaders, No Child Left Behind, KidCare. Healthy Forests 
opens up Sequoia National Park and other parks and national wilderness 
areas to logging and more roads for loggers. Clean Skies allows 68% more 
nitrogen oxide, 125% more sulfur dioxide, and 420% more mercury air 
pollution than the Clean Air law it replaces. Climate Leaders is a plan for 
businesses to voluntarily reduce their greenhouse gas emissions; of the 
many thousands of potential Leaders, only 14 have volunteered. No Child 
Left Behind cuts most school programs in favor of standardized testing. 
KidCare, a Jeb Bush initiative in the state of Florida, resulted in 167,500 
children losing their medical insurance.

Jerry Thacker, marketing consultant and member of the Presidential Advisory 
Commission on AIDS and HIV, is a Republican. He has called AIDS the "gay 
plague," describes homosexuality as a "deathstyle," and states that only 
"Christ can rescue the homosexual."

The Rev. Scott Breedlove, pastor of the Jesus Church of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, 
is probably a Republican. His plans for a large outdoor book-burning were 
thwarted by officials of the Cedar Rapids Fire Department. A city fire 
inspector suggested shredding the books, but Breedlove said that didn?t 
seem very biblical.

Pat Tillman was probably a Republican. After September 11, he gave up a 
multimillion dollar contract as a professional football player to join the 
Army Rangers in Afghanistan, where he died in combat. As the only soldier 
with some previous national recognition, he was on the verge of media 
canonization when it was revealed that he had been killed by American 
troops in a "friendly fire" incident.

Zell Miller, Senator from Georgia, might as well be a Republican. He is a 
Democrat who campaigns for the President and speaks at Republican events. 
The torture at Abu Ghraib prison reminded him of his high school gym: "The 
two times I think I have been most humiliated in my life was standing in a 
big room, naked as a jaybird with about fifty others and they were checking 
us out, now that was humiliating. It was humiliating showering with sixty 
others in a public shower. It didn't kill us did it? No one ever died from 
humiliation."

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Police and intelligence authorities are 
now examining immigration files and lists of voter registration, driver?s 
licences, university enrollment, library withdrawals, airplane 
reservations, credit card purchases, birth certificates, and Social 
Security numbers in the attempt to uncover terrorist links. They have, 
however, been expressly forbidden by Attorney General Ashcroft from looking 
at the lists of background checks for gun purchasers.

Republicans are fighting terrorism, but it is sometimes difficult to tell 
who is a terrorist and who is a Republican. Attorney General John Ashcroft 
has warned that al-Qaeda operatives in the United States are very likely to 
be "European-looking," in their late twenties or early thirties, traveling 
with their families, and speaking English.

Republican like large bombs. Having already developed the Massive Ordnamce 
Air Blast (MOAB), a 21,000-pound bomb, they are now working on MOP, the 
Massive Ordnance Penetrator, which weighs 30,000 pounds.

Rick Perry, Governor of Texas, is a Republican. He does not believe that 
the wealthy should pay for the education of the poor, so he has proposed 
reducing property taxes and replacing them with larger taxes on cigarettes 
and alcohol, and a $5 tax every time a patron enters a topless bar.
John Graham, former CEO of Strat at comm, a public relations and lobbying firm 
for the automobile industry, and founder of the Sports Utility Vehicle 
Owners of America, is a Republican. As the Administrator in Charge of 
Regulations for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, he has 
introduced greatly inferior standards for automobile tires.

Judge John Leon Holmes, appointed by the President to a lifetime seat on 
the Federal District Court, is a Republican. He supports a constitutional 
amendment banning abortion, has compared pro-choice advocates to Nazis and 
abortion to slavery, and has written that "concern for rape victims is a 
red herring because conceptions from rape occur with approximately the same 
frequency as snowfall in Miami." Confronted with statistics showing that 
some 30,000 American women become pregnant each year from rape or incest, 
Jeff Sessions, Senator from Alabama and a Republican, defended Holmes by 
saying that he was merely using "a literary device called exaggeration for 
effect."

Josh Llano, Southern Baptist Army chaplain in Iraq, is a Republican. At the 
Army V Corps camp in the desert near Najaf, where water is in short supply 
and washing rare, he was given a 500-gallon pool to use for baptisms. 
Soldiers are agreeing to sit through the three-hour ceremony in order to 
get a bath.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Rick Santorum, Senator from 
Pennsylvania, in support of the constitutional amendment banning gay 
marriage, said: "I would argue that the future of our country hangs in the 
balance because the future of marriage hangs in the balance. Isn't that the 
ultimate homeland security, standing up and defending marriage?"

Republicans are fighting terrorism. In October 2001, Ansar Mahmood, a pizza 
delivery man and legal immigrant in Hudson, New York, went to the banks of 
the Hudson River to take some photographs of the beautiful scenery to send 
to his village in Pakistan. What he did not know was that he was standing 
near a water treatment plant and that there was a general hysteria about 
terrorists poisoning the water supply. Mahmood is still in jail.

Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi, is a Republican. His campaign was 
vigorously supported by the President and the Council of Conservative 
Citizens, which supports deporting African-Americans to Africa, denies the 
Holocaust took place, and opposes the immigration of all non-white people 
as well as the "mixing of the races."

Allan Fitzsimmons, Fuels Coordinator at the Department of Interior and in 
charge of implementing the Healthy Forests initiative, is a Republican. 
Although he has no background in forest management, he has written articles 
questioning the existence of ecosystems, calling them a "mental construct." 
He has accused religious organizations that promote protecting the 
environment of succumbing to idolatry.

Republicans do not like children. The Food and Drug Administration has 
eliminated laws requiring separate testing for drugs that are prescribed 
for children as well as adults.

Republicans like to help impoverished nations. The Administration has 
proposed that these countries generate income by allowing hunters to kill 
elephants and other "trophy" animals, and wildlife traders and the pet 
industry to capture rare birds. It has also proposed that the importation 
of ivory tusks, skins, and antlers be made legal again.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. It was a surprise when Max 
Cleland, a popular Democratic Senator from Georgia, lost his bid for 
re-election. Some attributed the defeat to Republican television 
advertisements juxtaposing Cleland with Osama bin Laden, questioning the 
Senator?s patriotism even though Cleland had lost both legs and an arm in 
the Vietnam War. This was the first election in which all votes in Georgia 
were cast on electronic voting machines. The machines were manufactured by 
Diebold.

Republicans do not like international treaties.

Randall Tobias, global coordinator for AIDS, is a Republican. After two 
years, only 2% of the $18 billion allotted to fight AIDS has been spent. 
One-third of it, by law, must be used for "abstinence education." Much of 
the rest will be spent on drugs. Tobias decides whether the Administration 
will purchase generic drugs or name-brand drugs, which are three to five 
times as expensive. Tobias is the former CEO of the pharmaceutical 
corporation Eli Lilly, which has donated at least $1.5 million to 
Republicans since 2000.

William G. Myers, recently appointed to a lifetime seat on the Court of 
Appeals, is a Republican. Evidently a classical scholar, he referred to the 
California Desert Protection Act, which created Joshua Tree National Park, 
Death Valley National Park, and the Mojave National Preserve, as "an 
example of legislative hubris."

Republicans like electronic voting machines. The State of Maryland is 
worried about possible fraud in its machines, so it has hired the Science 
Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to oversee elections. The 
former CEO of SAIC and current Chairman of its VoteHere division, is 
Admiral Bill Owens, former military aide to Dick Cheney.

Republicans do not like the cactus pygmy owl, although there are only 
thirty left, Puget Sound orcas, Florida manatees, Florida panthers, or the 
Kemp?s ridley turtle.

Cindy Jacobs is a Republican. She is the founder of the Generals of 
Intercession, an organization devoted to "winning nations for Christ" 
through a "military-style prayer strategy." In 2002, God told her that the 
U.S. would invade Iraq, and she convened an "international gathering of 
Generals" in Washington, D.C.. "Each of us felt in our hearts that God 
wants to humble the spirit of Islam and its god, Allah, and that God is 
leading President Bush." At the meeting, according to Jacobs, one of the 
Generals said "she had been studying Jeremiah 50:2, which says, ?Declare 
among the nations, Proclaim, and set up a standard; Proclaim--do not 
conceal it--Say, Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed.? Some Bible translations 
say ?confounded? rather than ?shamed.? As she looked up the word 
?confounded? in her lexicon, she found that the word in Hebrew is ?Bush?! 
We were amazed at that!"

Mickey Mouse is a Republican. 7.3 million shares of Disney are owned by the 
Florida state pension fund, which is controlled by Jeb Bush. Disney has an 
agreement with the state granting them complete control, "free from 
government oversight," of over 40,000 acres. In the days following 
September 11, the President urged the country to "Go down to Disney World 
in Florida. Take your families and enjoy life." Disney refused to allow its 
Miramax division to distribute the Michael Moore film "Fahrenheit 9/11."

Republicans are fighting terrorism, but the one genuine terrorist captured, 
accidentally, on American soil, has never been mentioned in the 2,295 press 
releases issued by John Ashcroft and the Office of the Attorney General. 
William Krar of Noonday, Texas, mailed a package containing false U.N. 
credentials, Defense Intelligence Agency identification cards, phony birth 
certificates, and forged federal concealed weapons permits to a fellow 
terrorist. The Post Office delivered it to the wrong address, and the 
recipient notified the FBI. At Krar?s home they found fully automatic 
machine guns, remote-controlled explosive devices disguised as briefcases, 
60 pipe bombs, 500,000 rounds of ammunition, and enough pure sodium 
cyanide, as the FBI said, "to kill everyone inside a 30,000 square foot 
building. Krar, however, is a White Supremacist, and not a Muslim.

Republicans do not like elections. After the Presidential election of 2000, 
Congress approved $4 billion to help states improve their voting systems 
for the 2004 election. Very little of the money has been distributed. 
Congress also created the Election Assistance Commission to oversee these 
improvements. For years, the White House delayed appointing any members or 
providing any of the funds appropriated. In 2004, it named DeForest 
"Buster" Soaries Jr., a New Jersey minister, as Director of the Commission. 
His first act was to ask for emergency legislation from Congress giving the 
Commission the authority to cancel the elections in the event of a 
terrorist attack.

God is a Republican. Speaking to a group of Amish farmers, the President 
told them: "God speaks through me."

Republicans have a sense of history. Mitch McConnell, Senator from 
Kentucky, wants to replace Alexander Hamilton on the $10 bill with Ronald 
Reagan. Dana Rohrabacher, Congressman from California, wants to replace 
Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill with Ronald Reagan. Jeff Miller, Congressman 
from Florida, wants to replace John Kennedy on the 50-cent piece with 
Ronald Reagan. Mark Souder, Congressman from Indiana, wants to replace 
Franklin Roosevelt on the dime with Ronald Reagan. Bill Frist, Senate 
Majority Leader, wants to rename the Pentagon as the Ronald Reagan National 
Defense Building. Grover Norquist of the Leave Us Alone Coalition (whose 
weekly meetings are attended by representatives of the President and Vice 
President) and Director of the Ronald Reagan Legacy Project, wants to put a 
monument to Ronald Reagan in every one of the 3000 counties in the United 
States. Matt Salmon, Congressman from Arizona, wants Ronald Reagan?s head 
carved on Mount Rushmore.

George W. Bush, President of the United States, is a Republican. To 
demonstrate personal sacrifice and his determination to win the War on 
Terror, he gave up desserts and candy a few days before he announced the 
invasion of Iraq.

[1 August 2004]

Copyright c. 2004 Eliot Weinberger. This may circulate freely on the 
internet; for print publication please write: 
<mailto:unreal at att.net>unreal at att.net.

Eliot Weinberger's chronicles of the Bush Era are collected in 9/12, 
published by Prickly Paradigm/Univ. of Chicago Press.

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From hruggier  Thu Aug  5 15:39:03 2004
From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:39:03 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
References: <200408051600.i75G03YD009136@wiz.cath.vt.edu><a05100301bd3774c67b5f@[204.215.200.62]><20040805125601.M87043@kpaul.spinweb.net>
	<6.0.3.0.2.20040805142155.0306d3e8@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <002901c47b23$dd9a1130$55dcf63f@Helen>

Yeah, but look at it this way - ya keep em poor and hungry and they'll enlist just to eat.    It's all part of the plan. 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gabriel Gudding 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views 
  Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 3:22 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger


    Republicans: A Prose Poem

    Eliot Weinberger


    "They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy

    and freedom, and individual liberty."

    President George W. Bush


    "I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."

    Vice-President Dick Cheney

    -------------------------


    Thomas Donahue, Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is a Republican. He said the newly unemployed should "stop whining."


    Alfonso Jackson, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, is a Republican. He explained the enormous cuts to low-income housing by saying, "Being poor is a state of mind, not a condition."


    Rick Santorum, Senator from Pennsylvania, is a Republican. He defended cuts to child care and welfare by suggesting that "making people struggle a little bit is not necessarily the worst thing."


    Eric Bost, Undersecretary of Food and Nutrition, U.S. Department of Agriculture, is a Republican. A study by his own agency said that 34 million Americans, including 13.6 million children under the age of 12, were affected by hunger, but Bost doubts these numbers: "If you ask any teenager if they're happy about the food they have in their house, what will they say?" Responding to a report that the number of people seeking assistance at food pantries in Ohio had increased by 44% in the last three years, Bost told an Ohio newspaper: "Food pantries don't require documentation of income. . . so there's no proof everyone asking for sustenance at a soup kitchen is truly in need."


    Dr. Tom Coburn, former Congressman and current candidate for the Senate from Oklahoma, is a Republican. Dr. Coburn supports the death penalty for doctors who perform abortions.


    Republicans do not like dogs. Major General Geoffrey Miller, former Chief of Prisons at Guantanamo Bay, now Director of Prisons in Iraq, said that "at Guantanamo Bay we learned that the prisoners have to earn every single thing that they have. They are like dogs and if you allow them to believe at any point that they are more than a dog then you've lost control of them."


    Republicans like dogs. Trent Lott, Senator from Mississippi, was asked about the use of attack dogs in torturing an Iraqi prisoner. He replied that there?s "nothing wrong with holding a dog up there unless it ate him."


    Republicans have a sense of history. The National Museum of Naval Aviation now exhibits the actual Navy S-3B Viking fighter jet that carried the President to the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln for his "Mission Accomplished" speech. It has "George W. Bush Commander-in-Chief" stenciled just below the cockpit window.


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. Ron Paige, Secretary of Education, called the National Education Association, with a membership of 2.7 million teachers, a "terrorist organization." Karen Hughes, adviser to the President, said that, especially after September 11, Americans support Bush's efforts to ban abortion because "the fundamental issue between us and the terror network we fight is that we value every life."


    Patricia "Lynn" Scarlett, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a Republican. She is the former president of the Reason Foundation, a libertarian group, and is opposed to recycling, nutritional labeling on food, consumer "right to know" laws, and restrictions on the use of pesticides.


    D. Nick Rerras, State Senator in Virginia, is a Republican. He believes that mental illness is caused by demons and, somewhat contradictorily, that "God may be punishing families by giving children mental illnesses." He also claims that "thunder and lightning mean God is mad at you."


    John Yoo, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, is a Republican. In January 2002, he sent a 42-page memo to William Haynes II, Chief Legal Counsel for the Pentagon, stating that the Geneva Conventions, the War Crimes Act, and "customary international law" do not apply to the war in Afghanistan. He was seconded by Alberto Gonzales, White House Legal Counsel, who wrote: "In my judgment, this new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva?s strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions." A few days later, the President suspended all rights for prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.


    William Haynes II, the recipient of Yoo?s memo, is a Republican. As the Chief Legal Counsel for the Pentagon, he argued that the Defense Department should be exempt from the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and allowed to test bombs on a Pacific Ocean nesting island. Such bombing, he said, would please bird-watchers, because it will make the birds more scarce, and "bird watchers get more enjoyment spotting a rare bird than they do spotting a common one." Haynes has now been nominated by the President for a lifetime appointment as a judge on the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.


    Republicans like children. John Cornyn, Senator from Texas, speaking in support of the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, said: "It does not affect your daily life very much if your neighbor marries a box turtle. But that does not mean it is right. Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife."


    Republicans are optimistic. General Peter Schoomaker, U.S. Army Chief of Staff, says that, following September 11, "there is a huge silver lining in this cloud." He explains: "War is a tremendous focus. . . . Now we have this focusing opportunity, and we have the fact that terrorists have actually attacked our homeland, which it gives it some oomph."


    Republicans do not like children. The President has never bothered to appoint a director of the Office of Children?s Health Protection.


    Craig Manson, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a Republican. In charge of overseeing the Endangered Species Act, he has refused to add any new species to the list. He said: "If we are saying that the loss of species in and of itself is inherently bad -- I don't think we know enough about how the world works to say that."


    Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor, is a Republican. Her department publishes a pamphlet with tips to employers about how to avoid paying overtime wages to workers.


    Jack Kahl and his son John Kahl are Republicans and major contributors to the Republican Party. They are, respectively, the former and current chairmen and CEOs of Manco, Inc., a company in Avon, Ohio. (Motto: "If you?re not proud of it, don?t ship it.") Manco produces 63% of all the duct tape used in the USA. When the Secretary of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge, repeatedly urged Americans to buy plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal their homes from a biological or chemical attack, Manco?s sales increased 40% overnight.


    Republicans have a sense of history. Sonny Perdue, the Governor of Georgia, celebrated his election victory, and the end of Democratic control, by intoning the words of Martin Luther King: "Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we're free at last!" He gave his speech in front of a large Confederate flag.


    Sue Myrick, Congresswoman from North Carolina, is a Republican. As the keynote speaker at a Heritage Foundation conference on "The Role of State and Local Governments in Protecting Our Homeland," she said: "Honest to goodness, [my husband] Ed and I, for years, for 20 years, have been saying, ?You know, look at who runs all the convenience stores across the country.? Every little town you go into, you know?"

    Republicans are fighting terrorism. In the village of Prosser, Washington, a 15-year-old drew some antiwar cartoons in a sketchbook for art class; one depicted the President as a devil firing rockets. The art teacher turned the sketchbook over to the principal of the school, who called the local police chief, who alerted the Secret Service, which sent two agents to Prosser to interrogate the boy.


    John Hostettler, Congressman from Indiana, is a Republican. He was briefly detained by security at the Louisville, Kentucky, airport, when they found a loaded Glock-9mm automatic pistol in his briefcase. In 2000, when the Violence Against Women Act passed Congress by a vote of 415 to 3, Hostettler was one of the three.


    Jeffrey Holmstead, Assistant Administrator for Air and Radiation at the Environmental Protection Agency, is a Republican. A former lawyer for Montrose Chemical, American Electric Power, and various pesticide companies, he served under Bush Sr. on the [Dan] Quayle Council on Competitiveness, devoted to weakening existing environmental, health, and safety regulations. Holmstead is a member of the Citizens for the Environment, an organization that promotes "market solutions" to environmental problems, considers acid rain a myth, and supports the total deregulation of businesses.


    Ed Gillespie is Chairman of the Republican National Committee. He accuses gays of "intolerance and bigotry" for "attempting to force the rest of the population to accept alien moral standards."


    Al Frink is a Republican. He was appointed to the newly-created position of Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Manufacturing and Services, to address the massive loss of jobs to factories overseas. He is the co-owner of Fabrica, a company that makes expensive carpets for the White House and the Saudi royal family. (Motto: "The Rolls-Royce of Carpets.") Although Fabrica has no factories abroad, it has replaced many of its workers with robots because, as Frink?s partner explained, you don?t have to pay health insurance for robots.


    There are American soldiers in Iraq who are Republicans. They follow the instructions to tear out a page from the pamphlet, "A Christian?s Duty" (distributed, with military approval, by the In Touch Ministries), and mail it to the White House, pledging that they will pray daily for the Administration. The pamphlet includes a suggested prayer for each day. "Monday" reads: "Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong and courageous to do what is right regardless of critics".


    There are men in Indianapolis, Indiana, who are Republicans, but they don?t look like ordinary people. At a rally promoting Republican economic policy and its effect on the ordinary person, those standing behind the President were asked to remove their ties and jackets for the cameras.


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. Tim Pawlenty, Governor of Minnesota, wants people arrested at antiwar demonstrations? but not at other demonstrations? to pay an additional fine, which will be used for "homeland security expenses."


    Republicans do not like children. A little girl asked Richard Riordan, Secretary of Education for the State of California, if he knew that her name, Isis, "meant ?Egyptian goddess.?" "It means stupid, dirty girl," Riordan replied.


    Republicans like ice cream, but they do not like the ice cream made by Ben & Jerry?s, with its notorious support of progressive causes. So they have created their own brand, Star-Spangled Ice Cream, which has pledged 19% of its profits to conservative organizations. Among its flavors are I Hate the French Vanilla, Gun Nut, Smaller GovernMINT, Iraqi Road, and Choc & Awe.


    Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, is a Republican. He opened the nation?s first Christian prison, where inmates spend their days in prayer and Bible study.


    Republicans like Hummers. Those who purchase a Hummer H-1 for $50,590 receive a tax deduction of $50,590; those who purchase a H-2 for $111,845 receive a deduction of $107,107. "In my humble opinion," said Rick Schmidt, founder of the International Hummer Owners Group, "the H2 is an American icon. . . it's a symbol of what we all hold so dearly above all else, the fact we have the freedom of choice, the freedom of happiness, the freedom of adventure and discovery, and the ultimate freedom of expression. Those who deface a Hummer in words or deed deface the American flag and what it stands for."


    Republicans like secrets. Asked by a reporter from a newspaper in Apopka, Florida, the White House refused to confirm or deny that it had invited members of the Apopka Little League team to watch a game of T-ball on the White House Lawn.


    Republicans have a sense of history. The officials of Taney County, Missouri, refused to hang a "plaque of remembrance" honoring a Taney County resident who died in the World Trade Center on September 11 because he was a Democrat.


    Jerry Regier, Director of the Department of Children and Families for the State of Florida, is a Republican. He believes that children should be subject to "manly" discipline, that a "biblical spanking" leading to "temporary and superficial bruises or welts does not constitute child abuse," that women should view working outside the home as "bondage," that Christians should not marry non-Christians, and that "the radical feminist movement has damaged the morale of many women and convinced men to relinquish their biblical authority in the home.''


    Republicans have a sense of history. Bill Black, Vice Chairman of the California Republican Party, sent his constituents an article from the Center for Cultural Conservatism, which read: "Given how bad things have gotten in the old USA, it's not hard to believe that history might have taken a better turn. ... The real damage to race relations in the South came not from slavery, but from Reconstruction, which would not have occurred if the South had won."


    Kathy Cox, Superintendent of Schools for the State of Georgia, is a Republican. She wants all textbooks in the state to be changed so that the word "evolution" is replaced with "biological changes over time."


    Jim Bunning, Senator from Kentucky, is a Republican. He gets a laugh at Republican dinners by joking that his opponent in the forthcoming election, Dan Mongiardo, a son of Italian immigrants, looks like one of the sons of Saddam Hussein.


    Republicans have a sense of history. The only illustrations in the federal budget, published annually by the Government Printing Office, are normally charts and graphs. This year, it features 27 color photographs of the President. He is seen in front of the Washington monument and in front of a giant American flag, reading to a small child, hacking a trail through the wilderness, comforting an elderly woman in a wheelchair, and serving an inedible food-styled Thanksgiving turkey to the troops in Iraq.


    Republicans do not like almanacs. On Christmas Eve, the FBI sent a bulletin to 18,000 police organizations warning them to watch out-- during traffic stops, searches, and other investigations? for anyone carrying an almanac. The bulletin stated that "the practice of researching potential targets is consistent with known methods of al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations that seek to maximize the likelihood of operational success through careful planning." Kevin Seabrooke, senior editor of the World Almanac, may or may not be a Republican. "I don?t think anyone would consider us a harmful entity," he said.


    Republicans like the Rush Limbaugh Show and like having it broadcast to the troops overseas, five days a week, on the official American Forces Radio and Television Service network. When it was suggested that they provide more "balanced" political programming, Sam Johnson, Congressman from Texas, said that it "sounds a little like Communism to me."


    Stephen Downs, age 61, is probably not a Republican. He was shopping at the Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, when security guards surrounded him and asked him to leave. Downs was wearing a t-shirt with the words "Give Peace a Chance." He refused to leave and was arrested for trespassing.


    My friend, a middle-aged white man, is not a Republican. A photographer on assignment for the National Geographic in Florida, he was taking pictures of some colorfully painted vans in a parking lot. An hour later he was arrested. An alert citizen, suspecting possible terrorist information-gathering activity, had called the police.


    Herbert O. Chadbourne is probably a Republican. A professor at the evangelical Regent University, he developed a facial tic? the result he said, of exposure to biological or chemical agents when he was a soldier in the first Gulf War. The university, however, said that the tic was a sign that he was possessed by a demon, having been cursed by God for sinfulness, and fired him.


    Jeffrey Kofman, reporter for ABC television, may not be a Republican. When he broadcast a story that morale among American troops in Iraq was weakening, the White House spread the story that not only is Kofman gay, he?s a Canadian.


    Republicans like technology. Although most programs for low-income housing and job training have been greatly reduced or eliminated, the Department of Labor has created a website for the homeless.


    Republicans like methyl bromide, a pesticide that destroys the ozone layer and leads to prostate cancer in farm workers. The Reagan administration and 160 nations signed a treaty in 1987 to eliminate methyl bromide by 2005. The use of the pesticide has increased every year of the current Administration, which is seeking a waiver from compliance with the treaty. Claudia A. McMurray, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Environment, explained: "Our farmers need this."


    Republicans like dog-race gamblers, NASCAR track owners, bow-and-arrow makers, and Oldsmobile dealers. They were among those given $170 billion in tax cuts that were slipped into an obscure bill intended to resolve a minor trade dispute with Europe.


    Republicans do not like technology. On September 11, 2001, the FBI computers were still running on MS-DOS, which could only perform single-word searches of their files, and FBI agents did not have e-mail. They are hoping a new system will be in place in 2006.


    Lieutenant General William Boykin, Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, formerly in charge of the hunt for Osama bin Laden and currently directing Iraqi prison reform, is a Republican. He regularly appears at revival meetings sponsored by a group called the Faith Force Multiplier, which advocates applying military principles to evangelism. Its manifesto, "Warrior Message," summons "warriors in this spiritual war for souls of this nation and the world ." Boykin preaches that "Satan wants to destroy this nation, he wants to destroy us as a nation, and he wants to destroy us as a Christian army," and that Muslims "will only be defeated if we come against them in the name of Jesus". He admits that "George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the US," but adds: "He was appointed by God."


    Kelli Arena, Justice Department correspondent for CNN, is presumably a Republican. She reported that "there is some speculation that al Qaeda believes it has a better chance of winning in Iraq if John Kerry is in the White House ."


    William "Bucky" Bush, uncle of the President, is a Republican. He is a director of Engineer Support Systems, Inc., which makes military items, such as the Chemical Biological Protected Shelter System (a mobile shed for a WMD attack) or the Field Deployable Environmental Control Unit. Since 2001, the company has had sales to the Pentagon of $300-400 million a year, and the Department of Homeland Security has ordered a fleet of mobile emergency communication centers for use in the event of a domestic biochemical attack. He is also a director of Lord Abbett & Co., which owns 8 million shares of Halliburton. Jeb Bush inserted a line in the Florida state budget privatizing elevator inspections. "Bucky" is one of the owners of a company called National Elevator Inspection Services.


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. In the 1980's, Bob and Todd Urosevich founded a voting machine company, eventually called American Information Systems (AIS), with money from the Ahmanson family of California. The Ahmansons are Christian Reconstructionists who want to establish a theocracy based on biblical law and under the "dominion" of Christians. They support the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, and alcoholics. They are members of the secretive Council for National Policy, which combines remnants of the John Birch Society with apocalyptic Christians and is considered by many to be the driving force of "hard right" ideology. The Ahmansons sold the company to the McCarthy Group, whose Chairman and co-owner was Chuck Hagel. The McCarthy Group bought another voting machine company, Cronus Industries, from the Hunt oil family in Texas, also Christian Reconstructionists, who had supplied the original money for the Council for National Policy. The two voting machine companies were merged and became Election Systems and Software (ES&S), with Hagel as CEO.


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. ES&S counts 80% of the vote in the state of Nebraska. In 1996, Hagel resigned from ES&S to run for Senator from Nebraska. His victory was called a "stunning upset" by Nebraska newspapers: African-American districts that had never voted for a Republican voted for Hagel. In 1992, Hagel ran again and received 83% of the vote? 3% more than ES&S-tabulated votes and the largest election victory in the history of Nebraska. His Democratic opponent asked for a recount, but the Republican-dominated state legislature had passed a law that only ES&S could recount the votes. Hagel won the recount. No longer Chairman of the McCarthy Group, Hagel had been succeeded by Thomas McCarthy, who was his campaign treasurer.


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. When Jeb Bush first ran for Governor of Florida, his first choice for Lieutenant Governor was Sandra Mortham, a lobbyist for ES&S, who was receiving commissions for every county that bought ES&S machines.


    Republicans have a sense of history. John LeBoutillier, former Congressman and author of Harvard Hates Americia, wants to build the "Counter Clinton Library," a few minutes walk from the official Clinton Presidential Library in Little Rock, Arkansas. This library will be devoted to the "distortions, slanders, spins, and outright lies" of the Clinton Administration.


    The Senate of the State of Texas is controlled by Republicans. They passed an "abortion counseling law" which requires doctors to warn women that abortion might lead to breast cancer, for which there is no medical evidence.


    The President?s Council of Economic Advisers are Republicans. In order to show an increase in manufacturing jobs, they are considering reclassifying fast-food workers as "manufacturers," since they "manufacture" hamburgers.


    Republicans like formaldehyde. In support of changing the regulations on emissions from plywood factories, the White House Office of Management and Budget deleted references to studies by the National Cancer Institute and replaced them with references to studies by the Chemical Industry Institute for Toxicology. The NCI?s estimate of the risk of leukemia from exposure to formaldehyde was 10,000 times greater than the estimate by the CIIT.


    Specialist Sean Baker of the Kentucky National Guard, was probably once a Republican, but may no longer be one. Assigned to the military prison in Guantanamo Bay, he volunteered to portray a detainee in a training drill. A five-man "immediate response force" choked and beat him on the steel floor of the 6' x 8' cell, despite his shouting the code word and telling his assailants he was an American soldier. They finally stopped when his orange prison suit was ripped off, revealing a military uniform. Baker spent 48 days in the hospital and still suffers from seizures. Laurie Arellano, a Republican and spokesperson for the Pentagon, said that Baker?s hospital stay was "not related to the beating at Guantanamo." A few days later she said this was not true. The incident was taped, but the tape has now been lost.


    Bill Nevins may or may not have been a Republican, but it is doubtful he is still one. A teacher at the huge Rio Rancho High School-- with over 3000 students, the largest in New Mexico? he organized a school poetry club, which held a Poetry Slam. At the reading, a student read a poem criticizing the President and the war in Iraq, in language that was neither violent or obscene. Nevins was immediately fired by the Principal, Gary Tripp, for promoting "disrespectful speech." He then banned the poetry club and all classes in poetry, ordered the student to destroy all of her poetry, and threatened to fire her mother? also a teacher at the school? if the girl did not. At a school assembly a few days later, Tripp read a poem of his own, instructing students who disagreed with him to "shut your faces."


    Republicans like sex. Jack Ryan, candidate (now former candidate) for Senator from Illinois, forced his wife (now ex-wife) to visit sadomasochist sex clubs in New York and Paris and insisted she have sex with him there while others watched. He defended himself by calling these "romantic getaways," and noted,"There was no breaking of any laws. There was no breaking of any marriage laws. There was no breaking of the Ten Commandments anywhere." Republicans supported him, because, as columnist Robert Novack said, "Jack Ryan, unlike Bill Clinton, did not commit adultery and did not lie." Ryan?s ex-wife is the actress Jeri Ryan who, on the television program "Star Trek," portrayed a Borg. (Motto: "Resistance is futile.")


    Republicans like meat, and like their meat regulated by people from the meat industry. At the US Department of Agriculture (USDA), Elizabeth Johnson, Senior Advisor on Food and Nutrition, is formerly Associate Director for Food Policy, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. James Moseley, Deputy Secretary of Agriculture, is formerly Managing Partner, Infinity Pork. Dale Moore, Chief of Staff, is formerly Executive Director for Legislative Affairs, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Dr. Eric Hentges, Director, Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, is formerly Vice President, the National Pork Board. Dr. Charles "Chuck" Lambert, Deputy Undersecretary for Marketing and Regulatory Programs, is formerly Chief Economist, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Donna Reifschneider, Administrator for Grain Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration, is formerly President, National Pork Producers Council. Mary Kirtley Waters, Assistant Secretary for Congressional Relations, is formerly Senior Director, ConAgra Foods. Scott Charbo, Chief Information Officer, is formerly President, mPower3, a subsidiary of ConAgra Foods. The USDA prohibited Creekstone Farms Premium Beef, a company in Kansas, from testing all its cattle for mad cow disease, for it would cause undue alarm among consumers and pressure the other beef producers to similarly test their stock.


    Republicans like Freedom fries (formerly known as French fries). At the request of the frozen Freedom fry (formerly known as French fry) industry, the USDA changed the classification of frozen Freedom fries (formerly known as French fries) to "fresh vegetable," so that the food could be listed in the Department?s promotion of a healthy diet.


    Republicans do not like sex. Robert F. McDonnell, Chairman of the House Courts of Justice Committee for the State of Virginia, said that "engaging in anal or oral sex might disqualify a person from being a judge." Republicans like sex. A few days later, McDonnell?s campaign manager, Robin Vanderwell, was arrested for soliciting a young boy over the internet.


    Ralph Reed is a Republican. When he was the director of the Christian Coalition, he campaigned against gambling, calling it a "cancer on the American body politic" that is "stealing food from the mouths of children." He is now the lobbyist for a large casino.


    Anna Perez, former Counselor for Communications to Condoleezza Rice and former Press Secretary for Barbara Bush, is a Republican. NBC appointed her Executive Vice President for Communications. "I love the television business," she said, although "I have no expertise in it."


    Paul O?Neill is a Republican. When he was Secretary of the Treasury, he recommended that corporations pay no taxes at all. As it is, only 60% of corporations currently pay federal taxes.


    Michael Skupkin, founder of a religious software company and leader of the Presidential Prayer Team, is a Republican. He was urged to run for Senator from Michigan, but eventually refused. Skupkin had become famous on the televison program, "Survivor 2," for catching and slaughtering a wild boar with his bare hands, and then painting his face with its blood. The Presidential Prayer Team is an independent organization with millions of participants, who are given daily instructions, such as: "Pray for the president as he meets with Singaporean Prime Minister Goh Chok Ton on May 6. The two leaders will discuss strengthening our bilateral relations as well as the U.S.-Singapore Free Trade Agreement."


    Mark Rey, former Vice President of the American Forest and Paper Association, former Vice President of the National Forest Products Association, former Executive Director of the American Forest Resource Alliance, a coalition of 350 timber corporations, is a Republican. As the Under Secretary for Natural Resources and the Environment, he now oversees the U.S. Forest Service, and is responsible for the management of 155 national forests, 19 national grasslands, and 15 land utilization projects on 192,000,000 acres of publicly-owned lands in 44 states. He is the author of the "Salvage Rider," which suspended all environmental laws in the national forests, and which was called by the New York Times "the worst piece of conservation legislation ever written."


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. 8 million people? 8% of the voters? vote on machines made by Diebold Inc., whose CEO is Wally O?Dell. In 2000 O?Dell was Chairman of the Ohio Bush for President Committee. In 2004 he has said that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President." Bob Urosevich, co-founder of AIS, is now Director of Diebold Election Systems. (His brother remains at ES&S.)


    Republicans support education. This year the President has proposed new education initiatives: $40 million to help math and science professionals become teachers, $52 million to create more Advanced Placement courses in high school, $100 million for reading for middle and high schoolers who still have trouble reading, and $270 million for sexual abstinence classes.


    Republicans support legislation with cheerful names: Healthy Forests, Clean Skies, Climate Leaders, No Child Left Behind, KidCare. Healthy Forests opens up Sequoia National Park and other parks and national wilderness areas to logging and more roads for loggers. Clean Skies allows 68% more nitrogen oxide, 125% more sulfur dioxide, and 420% more mercury air pollution than the Clean Air law it replaces. Climate Leaders is a plan for businesses to voluntarily reduce their greenhouse gas emissions; of the many thousands of potential Leaders, only 14 have volunteered. No Child Left Behind cuts most school programs in favor of standardized testing. KidCare, a Jeb Bush initiative in the state of Florida, resulted in 167,500 children losing their medical insurance.


    Jerry Thacker, marketing consultant and member of the Presidential Advisory Commission on AIDS and HIV, is a Republican. He has called AIDS the "gay plague," describes homosexuality as a "deathstyle," and states that only "Christ can rescue the homosexual."


    The Rev. Scott Breedlove, pastor of the Jesus Church of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, is probably a Republican. His plans for a large outdoor book-burning were thwarted by officials of the Cedar Rapids Fire Department. A city fire inspector suggested shredding the books, but Breedlove said that didn?t seem very biblical.


    Pat Tillman was probably a Republican. After September 11, he gave up a multimillion dollar contract as a professional football player to join the Army Rangers in Afghanistan, where he died in combat. As the only soldier with some previous national recognition, he was on the verge of media canonization when it was revealed that he had been killed by American troops in a "friendly fire" incident.


    Zell Miller, Senator from Georgia, might as well be a Republican. He is a Democrat who campaigns for the President and speaks at Republican events. The torture at Abu Ghraib prison reminded him of his high school gym: "The two times I think I have been most humiliated in my life was standing in a big room, naked as a jaybird with about fifty others and they were checking us out, now that was humiliating. It was humiliating showering with sixty others in a public shower. It didn't kill us did it? No one ever died from humiliation."


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. Police and intelligence authorities are now examining immigration files and lists of voter registration, driver?s licences, university enrollment, library withdrawals, airplane reservations, credit card purchases, birth certificates, and Social Security numbers in the attempt to uncover terrorist links. They have, however, been expressly forbidden by Attorney General Ashcroft from looking at the lists of background checks for gun purchasers.


    Republicans are fighting terrorism, but it is sometimes difficult to tell who is a terrorist and who is a Republican. Attorney General John Ashcroft has warned that al-Qaeda operatives in the United States are very likely to be "European-looking," in their late twenties or early thirties, traveling with their families, and speaking English.


    Republican like large bombs. Having already developed the Massive Ordnamce Air Blast (MOAB), a 21,000-pound bomb, they are now working on MOP, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator, which weighs 30,000 pounds.


    Rick Perry, Governor of Texas, is a Republican. He does not believe that the wealthy should pay for the education of the poor, so he has proposed reducing property taxes and replacing them with larger taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, and a $5 tax every time a patron enters a topless bar.

    John Graham, former CEO of Strat at comm, a public relations and lobbying firm for the automobile industry, and founder of the Sports Utility Vehicle Owners of America, is a Republican. As the Administrator in Charge of Regulations for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, he has introduced greatly inferior standards for automobile tires.


    Judge John Leon Holmes, appointed by the President to a lifetime seat on the Federal District Court, is a Republican. He supports a constitutional amendment banning abortion, has compared pro-choice advocates to Nazis and abortion to slavery, and has written that "concern for rape victims is a red herring because conceptions from rape occur with approximately the same frequency as snowfall in Miami." Confronted with statistics showing that some 30,000 American women become pregnant each year from rape or incest, Jeff Sessions, Senator from Alabama and a Republican, defended Holmes by saying that he was merely using "a literary device called exaggeration for effect."


    Josh Llano, Southern Baptist Army chaplain in Iraq, is a Republican. At the Army V Corps camp in the desert near Najaf, where water is in short supply and washing rare, he was given a 500-gallon pool to use for baptisms. Soldiers are agreeing to sit through the three-hour ceremony in order to get a bath.


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. Rick Santorum, Senator from Pennsylvania, in support of the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, said: "I would argue that the future of our country hangs in the balance because the future of marriage hangs in the balance. Isn't that the ultimate homeland security, standing up and defending marriage?"


    Republicans are fighting terrorism. In October 2001, Ansar Mahmood, a pizza delivery man and legal immigrant in Hudson, New York, went to the banks of the Hudson River to take some photographs of the beautiful scenery to send to his village in Pakistan. What he did not know was that he was standing near a water treatment plant and that there was a general hysteria about terrorists poisoning the water supply. Mahmood is still in jail.


    Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi, is a Republican. His campaign was vigorously supported by the President and the Council of Conservative Citizens, which supports deporting African-Americans to Africa, denies the Holocaust took place, and opposes the immigration of all non-white people as well as the "mixing of the races."


    Allan Fitzsimmons, Fuels Coordinator at the Department of Interior and in charge of implementing the Healthy Forests initiative, is a Republican. Although he has no background in forest management, he has written articles questioning the existence of ecosystems, calling them a "mental construct." He has accused religious organizations that promote protecting the environment of succumbing to idolatry.


    Republicans do not like children. The Food and Drug Administration has eliminated laws requiring separate testing for drugs that are prescribed for children as well as adults.


    Republicans like to help impoverished nations. The Administration has proposed that these countries generate income by allowing hunters to kill elephants and other "trophy" animals, and wildlife traders and the pet industry to capture rare birds. It has also proposed that the importation of ivory tusks, skins, and antlers be made legal again.


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. It was a surprise when Max Cleland, a popular Democratic Senator from Georgia, lost his bid for re-election. Some attributed the defeat to Republican television advertisements juxtaposing Cleland with Osama bin Laden, questioning the Senator?s patriotism even though Cleland had lost both legs and an arm in the Vietnam War. This was the first election in which all votes in Georgia were cast on electronic voting machines. The machines were manufactured by Diebold.


    Republicans do not like international treaties.


    Randall Tobias, global coordinator for AIDS, is a Republican. After two years, only 2% of the $18 billion allotted to fight AIDS has been spent. One-third of it, by law, must be used for "abstinence education." Much of the rest will be spent on drugs. Tobias decides whether the Administration will purchase generic drugs or name-brand drugs, which are three to five times as expensive. Tobias is the former CEO of the pharmaceutical corporation Eli Lilly, which has donated at least $1.5 million to Republicans since 2000.


    William G. Myers, recently appointed to a lifetime seat on the Court of Appeals, is a Republican. Evidently a classical scholar, he referred to the California Desert Protection Act, which created Joshua Tree National Park, Death Valley National Park, and the Mojave National Preserve, as "an example of legislative hubris."


    Republicans like electronic voting machines. The State of Maryland is worried about possible fraud in its machines, so it has hired the Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to oversee elections. The former CEO of SAIC and current Chairman of its VoteHere division, is Admiral Bill Owens, former military aide to Dick Cheney.


    Republicans do not like the cactus pygmy owl, although there are only thirty left, Puget Sound orcas, Florida manatees, Florida panthers, or the Kemp?s ridley turtle.


    Cindy Jacobs is a Republican. She is the founder of the Generals of Intercession, an organization devoted to "winning nations for Christ" through a "military-style prayer strategy." In 2002, God told her that the U.S. would invade Iraq, and she convened an "international gathering of Generals" in Washington, D.C.. "Each of us felt in our hearts that God wants to humble the spirit of Islam and its god, Allah, and that God is leading President Bush." At the meeting, according to Jacobs, one of the Generals said "she had been studying Jeremiah 50:2, which says, ?Declare among the nations, Proclaim, and set up a standard; Proclaim--do not conceal it--Say, Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed.? Some Bible translations say ?confounded? rather than ?shamed.? As she looked up the word ?confounded? in her lexicon, she found that the word in Hebrew is ?Bush?! We were amazed at that!"


    Mickey Mouse is a Republican. 7.3 million shares of Disney are owned by the Florida state pension fund, which is controlled by Jeb Bush. Disney has an agreement with the state granting them complete control, "free from government oversight," of over 40,000 acres. In the days following September 11, the President urged the country to "Go down to Disney World in Florida. Take your families and enjoy life." Disney refused to allow its Miramax division to distribute the Michael Moore film "Fahrenheit 9/11."


    Republicans are fighting terrorism, but the one genuine terrorist captured, accidentally, on American soil, has never been mentioned in the 2,295 press releases issued by John Ashcroft and the Office of the Attorney General. William Krar of Noonday, Texas, mailed a package containing false U.N. credentials, Defense Intelligence Agency identification cards, phony birth certificates, and forged federal concealed weapons permits to a fellow terrorist. The Post Office delivered it to the wrong address, and the recipient notified the FBI. At Krar?s home they found fully automatic machine guns, remote-controlled explosive devices disguised as briefcases, 60 pipe bombs, 500,000 rounds of ammunition, and enough pure sodium cyanide, as the FBI said, "to kill everyone inside a 30,000 square foot building. Krar, however, is a White Supremacist, and not a Muslim.


    Republicans do not like elections. After the Presidential election of 2000, Congress approved $4 billion to help states improve their voting systems for the 2004 election. Very little of the money has been distributed. Congress also created the Election Assistance Commission to oversee these improvements. For years, the White House delayed appointing any members or providing any of the funds appropriated. In 2004, it named DeForest "Buster" Soaries Jr., a New Jersey minister, as Director of the Commission. His first act was to ask for emergency legislation from Congress giving the Commission the authority to cancel the elections in the event of a terrorist attack.


    God is a Republican. Speaking to a group of Amish farmers, the President told them: "God speaks through me."


    Republicans have a sense of history. Mitch McConnell, Senator from Kentucky, wants to replace Alexander Hamilton on the $10 bill with Ronald Reagan. Dana Rohrabacher, Congressman from California, wants to replace Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill with Ronald Reagan. Jeff Miller, Congressman from Florida, wants to replace John Kennedy on the 50-cent piece with Ronald Reagan. Mark Souder, Congressman from Indiana, wants to replace Franklin Roosevelt on the dime with Ronald Reagan. Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader, wants to rename the Pentagon as the Ronald Reagan National Defense Building. Grover Norquist of the Leave Us Alone Coalition (whose weekly meetings are attended by representatives of the President and Vice President) and Director of the Ronald Reagan Legacy Project, wants to put a monument to Ronald Reagan in every one of the 3000 counties in the United States. Matt Salmon, Congressman from Arizona, wants Ronald Reagan?s head carved on Mount Rushmore.


    George W. Bush, President of the United States, is a Republican. To demonstrate personal sacrifice and his determination to win the War on Terror, he gave up desserts and candy a few days before he announced the invasion of Iraq.


    [1 August 2004]


    Copyright c. 2004 Eliot Weinberger. This may circulate freely on the internet; for print publication please write: unreal at att.net.


    Eliot Weinberger's chronicles of the Bush Era are collected in 9/12, published by Prickly Paradigm/Univ. of Chicago Press. 




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From cstroffo  Thu Aug  5 17:02:32 2004
From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino )
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:02:32 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
Message-ID: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>

Ah, what an "ear" that fella whineburger's got

----------
From: Gabriel Gudding <gmguddi at ilstu.edu>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
Date: Thu, Aug 5, 2004, 11:22 AM


Republicans: A Prose Poem
Eliot Weinberger

"They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
and freedom, and individual liberty."
President George W. Bush

"I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
Vice-President Dick Cheney
-------------------------

Thomas Donahue, Director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is a Republican.
He said the newly unemployed should "stop whining."

Alfonso Jackson, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, is a
Republican. He explained the enormous cuts to low-income housing by saying,
"Being poor is a state of mind, not a condition."

Rick Santorum, Senator from Pennsylvania, is a Republican. He defended cuts
to child care and welfare by suggesting that "making people struggle a
little bit is not necessarily the worst thing."

Eric Bost, Undersecretary of Food and Nutrition, U.S. Department of
Agriculture, is a Republican. A study by his own agency said that 34 million
Americans, including 13.6 million children under the age of 12, were
affected by hunger, but Bost doubts these numbers: "If you ask any teenager
if they're happy about the food they have in their house, what will they
say?" Responding to a report that the number of people seeking assistance at
food pantries in Ohio had increased by 44% in the last three years, Bost
told an Ohio newspaper: "Food pantries don't require documentation of
income. . . so there's no proof everyone asking for sustenance at a soup
kitchen is truly in need."

Dr. Tom Coburn, former Congressman and current candidate for the Senate from
Oklahoma, is a Republican. Dr. Coburn supports the death penalty for doctors
who perform abortions.

Republicans do not like dogs. Major General Geoffrey Miller, former Chief of
Prisons at Guantanamo Bay, now Director of Prisons in Iraq, said that "at
Guantanamo Bay we learned that the prisoners have to earn every single thing
that they have. They are like dogs and if you allow them to believe at any
point that they are more than a dog then you've lost control of them."

Republicans like dogs. Trent Lott, Senator from Mississippi, was asked about
the use of attack dogs in torturing an Iraqi prisoner. He replied that
there?s "nothing wrong with holding a dog up there unless it ate him."

Republicans have a sense of history. The National Museum of Naval Aviation
now exhibits the actual Navy S-3B Viking fighter jet that carried the
President to the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln for his "Mission
Accomplished" speech. It has "George W. Bush Commander-in-Chief" stenciled
just below the cockpit window.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Ron Paige, Secretary of Education,
called the National Education Association, with a membership of 2.7 million
teachers, a "terrorist organization." Karen Hughes, adviser to the
President, said that, especially after September 11, Americans support
Bush's efforts to ban abortion because "the fundamental issue between us and
the terror network we fight is that we value every life."

Patricia "Lynn" Scarlett, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a
Republican. She is the former president of the Reason Foundation, a
libertarian group, and is opposed to recycling, nutritional labeling on
food, consumer "right to know" laws, and restrictions on the use of
pesticides.

D. Nick Rerras, State Senator in Virginia, is a Republican. He believes that
mental illness is caused by demons and, somewhat contradictorily, that "God
may be punishing families by giving children mental illnesses." He also
claims that "thunder and lightning mean God is mad at you."

John Yoo, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, is a Republican. In January
2002, he sent a 42-page memo to William Haynes II, Chief Legal Counsel for
the Pentagon, stating that the Geneva Conventions, the War Crimes Act, and
"customary international law" do not apply to the war in Afghanistan. He was
seconded by Alberto Gonzales, White House Legal Counsel, who wrote: "In my
judgment, this new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva?s strict limitations on
questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions." A
few days later, the President suspended all rights for prisoners at
Guantanamo Bay.

William Haynes II, the recipient of Yoo?s memo, is a Republican. As the
Chief Legal Counsel for the Pentagon, he argued that the Defense Department
should be exempt from the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and allowed to test
bombs on a Pacific Ocean nesting island. Such bombing, he said, would please
bird-watchers, because it will make the birds more scarce, and "bird
watchers get more enjoyment spotting a rare bird than they do spotting a
common one." Haynes has now been nominated by the President for a lifetime
appointment as a judge on the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Republicans like children. John Cornyn, Senator from Texas, speaking in
support of the constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, said: "It does
not affect your daily life very much if your neighbor marries a box turtle.
But that does not mean it is right. Now you must raise your children up in a
world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as
man and wife."

Republicans are optimistic. General Peter Schoomaker, U.S. Army Chief of
Staff, says that, following September 11, "there is a huge silver lining in
this cloud." He explains: "War is a tremendous focus. . . . Now we have this
focusing opportunity, and we have the fact that terrorists have actually
attacked our homeland, which it gives it some oomph."

Republicans do not like children. The President has never bothered to
appoint a director of the Office of Children?s Health Protection.

Craig Manson, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, is a Republican. In
charge of overseeing the Endangered Species Act, he has refused to add any
new species to the list. He said: "If we are saying that the loss of species
in and of itself is inherently bad -- I don't think we know enough about how
the world works to say that."

Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor, is a Republican. Her department publishes a
pamphlet with tips to employers about how to avoid paying overtime wages to
workers.

Jack Kahl and his son John Kahl are Republicans and major contributors to
the Republican Party. They are, respectively, the former and current
chairmen and CEOs of Manco, Inc., a company in Avon, Ohio. (Motto: "If
you?re not proud of it, don?t ship it.") Manco produces 63% of all the duct
tape used in the USA. When the Secretary of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge,
repeatedly urged Americans to buy plastic sheeting and duct tape to seal
their homes from a biological or chemical attack, Manco?s sales increased
40% overnight.

Republicans have a sense of history. Sonny Perdue, the Governor of Georgia,
celebrated his election victory, and the end of Democratic control, by
intoning the words of Martin Luther King: "Free at last, free at last, thank
God Almighty, we're free at last!" He gave his speech in front of a large
Confederate flag.

Sue Myrick, Congresswoman from North Carolina, is a Republican. As the
keynote speaker at a Heritage Foundation conference on "The Role of State
and Local Governments in Protecting Our Homeland," she said: "Honest to
goodness, [my husband] Ed and I, for years, for 20 years, have been saying,
?You know, look at who runs all the convenience stores across the country.?
Every little town you go into, you know?"
Republicans are fighting terrorism. In the village of Prosser, Washington, a
15-year-old drew some antiwar cartoons in a sketchbook for art class; one
depicted the President as a devil firing rockets. The art teacher turned the
sketchbook over to the principal of the school, who called the local police
chief, who alerted the Secret Service, which sent two agents to Prosser to
interrogate the boy.

John Hostettler, Congressman from Indiana, is a Republican. He was briefly
detained by security at the Louisville, Kentucky, airport, when they found a
loaded Glock-9mm automatic pistol in his briefcase. In 2000, when the
Violence Against Women Act passed Congress by a vote of 415 to 3, Hostettler
was one of the three.

Jeffrey Holmstead, Assistant Administrator for Air and Radiation at the
Environmental Protection Agency, is a Republican. A former lawyer for
Montrose Chemical, American Electric Power, and various pesticide companies,
he served under Bush Sr. on the [Dan] Quayle Council on Competitiveness,
devoted to weakening existing environmental, health, and safety regulations.
Holmstead is a member of the Citizens for the Environment, an organization
that promotes "market solutions" to environmental problems, considers acid
rain a myth, and supports the total deregulation of businesses.

Ed Gillespie is Chairman of the Republican National Committee. He accuses
gays of "intolerance and bigotry" for "attempting to force the rest of the
population to accept alien moral standards."

Al Frink is a Republican. He was appointed to the newly-created position of
Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Manufacturing and Services, to address
the massive loss of jobs to factories overseas. He is the co-owner of
Fabrica, a company that makes expensive carpets for the White House and the
Saudi royal family. (Motto: "The Rolls-Royce of Carpets.") Although Fabrica
has no factories abroad, it has replaced many of its workers with robots
because, as Frink?s partner explained, you don?t have to pay health
insurance for robots.

There are American soldiers in Iraq who are Republicans. They follow the
instructions to tear out a page from the pamphlet, "A Christian?s Duty"
(distributed, with military approval, by the In Touch Ministries), and mail
it to the White House, pledging that they will pray daily for the
Administration. The pamphlet includes a suggested prayer for each day.
"Monday" reads: "Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong and
courageous to do what is right regardless of critics".

There are men in Indianapolis, Indiana, who are Republicans, but they don?t
look like ordinary people. At a rally promoting Republican economic policy
and its effect on the ordinary person, those standing behind the President
were asked to remove their ties and jackets for the cameras.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Tim Pawlenty, Governor of Minnesota,
wants people arrested at antiwar demonstrations? but not at other
demonstrations? to pay an additional fine, which will be used for "homeland
security expenses."

Republicans do not like children. A little girl asked Richard Riordan,
Secretary of Education for the State of California, if he knew that her
name, Isis, "meant ?Egyptian goddess.?" "It means stupid, dirty girl,"
Riordan replied.

Republicans like ice cream, but they do not like the ice cream made by Ben &
Jerry?s, with its notorious support of progressive causes. So they have
created their own brand, Star-Spangled Ice Cream, which has pledged 19% of
its profits to conservative organizations. Among its flavors are I Hate the
French Vanilla, Gun Nut, Smaller GovernMINT, Iraqi Road, and Choc & Awe.

Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, is a Republican. He opened the nation?s first
Christian prison, where inmates spend their days in prayer and Bible study.

Republicans like Hummers. Those who purchase a Hummer H-1 for $50,590
receive a tax deduction of $50,590; those who purchase a H-2 for $111,845
receive a deduction of $107,107. "In my humble opinion," said Rick Schmidt,
founder of the International Hummer Owners Group, "the H2 is an American
icon. . . it's a symbol of what we all hold so dearly above all else, the
fact we have the freedom of choice, the freedom of happiness, the freedom of
adventure and discovery, and the ultimate freedom of expression. Those who
deface a Hummer in words or deed deface the American flag and what it stands
for."

Republicans like secrets. Asked by a reporter from a newspaper in Apopka,
Florida, the White House refused to confirm or deny that it had invited
members of the Apopka Little League team to watch a game of T-ball on the
White House Lawn.

Republicans have a sense of history. The officials of Taney County,
Missouri, refused to hang a "plaque of remembrance" honoring a Taney County
resident who died in the World Trade Center on September 11 because he was a
Democrat.

Jerry Regier, Director of the Department of Children and Families for the
State of Florida, is a Republican. He believes that children should be
subject to "manly" discipline, that a "biblical spanking" leading to
"temporary and superficial bruises or welts does not constitute child
abuse," that women should view working outside the home as "bondage," that
Christians should not marry non-Christians, and that "the radical feminist
movement has damaged the morale of many women and convinced men to
relinquish their biblical authority in the home.''

Republicans have a sense of history. Bill Black, Vice Chairman of the
California Republican Party, sent his constituents an article from the
Center for Cultural Conservatism, which read: "Given how bad things have
gotten in the old USA, it's not hard to believe that history might have
taken a better turn. ... The real damage to race relations in the South came
not from slavery, but from Reconstruction, which would not have occurred if
the South had won."

Kathy Cox, Superintendent of Schools for the State of Georgia, is a
Republican. She wants all textbooks in the state to be changed so that the
word "evolution" is replaced with "biological changes over time."

Jim Bunning, Senator from Kentucky, is a Republican. He gets a laugh at
Republican dinners by joking that his opponent in the forthcoming election,
Dan Mongiardo, a son of Italian immigrants, looks like one of the sons of
Saddam Hussein.

Republicans have a sense of history. The only illustrations in the federal
budget, published annually by the Government Printing Office, are normally
charts and graphs. This year, it features 27 color photographs of the
President. He is seen in front of the Washington monument and in front of a
giant American flag, reading to a small child, hacking a trail through the
wilderness, comforting an elderly woman in a wheelchair, and serving an
inedible food-styled Thanksgiving turkey to the troops in Iraq.

Republicans do not like almanacs. On Christmas Eve, the FBI sent a bulletin
to 18,000 police organizations warning them to watch out-- during traffic
stops, searches, and other investigations? for anyone carrying an almanac.
The bulletin stated that "the practice of researching potential targets is
consistent with known methods of al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations
that seek to maximize the likelihood of operational success through careful
planning." Kevin Seabrooke, senior editor of the World Almanac, may or may
not be a Republican. "I don?t think anyone would consider us a harmful
entity," he said.

Republicans like the Rush Limbaugh Show and like having it broadcast to the
troops overseas, five days a week, on the official American Forces Radio and
Television Service network. When it was suggested that they provide more
"balanced" political programming, Sam Johnson, Congressman from Texas, said
that it "sounds a little like Communism to me."

Stephen Downs, age 61, is probably not a Republican. He was shopping at the
Crossgates Mall in Guilderland, New York, when security guards surrounded
him and asked him to leave. Downs was wearing a t-shirt with the words "Give
Peace a Chance." He refused to leave and was arrested for trespassing.

My friend, a middle-aged white man, is not a Republican. A photographer on
assignment for the National Geographic in Florida, he was taking pictures of
some colorfully painted vans in a parking lot. An hour later he was
arrested. An alert citizen, suspecting possible terrorist
information-gathering activity, had called the police.

Herbert O. Chadbourne is probably a Republican. A professor at the
evangelical Regent University, he developed a facial tic? the result he
said, of exposure to biological or chemical agents when he was a soldier in
the first Gulf War. The university, however, said that the tic was a sign
that he was possessed by a demon, having been cursed by God for sinfulness,
and fired him.

Jeffrey Kofman, reporter for ABC television, may not be a Republican. When
he broadcast a story that morale among American troops in Iraq was
weakening, the White House spread the story that not only is Kofman gay,
he?s a Canadian.

Republicans like technology. Although most programs for low-income housing
and job training have been greatly reduced or eliminated, the Department of
Labor has created a website for the homeless.

Republicans like methyl bromide, a pesticide that destroys the ozone layer
and leads to prostate cancer in farm workers. The Reagan administration and
160 nations signed a treaty in 1987 to eliminate methyl bromide by 2005. The
use of the pesticide has increased every year of the current Administration,
which is seeking a waiver from compliance with the treaty. Claudia A.
McMurray, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Environment, explained:
"Our farmers need this."

Republicans like dog-race gamblers, NASCAR track owners, bow-and-arrow
makers, and Oldsmobile dealers. They were among those given $170 billion in
tax cuts that were slipped into an obscure bill intended to resolve a minor
trade dispute with Europe.

Republicans do not like technology. On September 11, 2001, the FBI computers
were still running on MS-DOS, which could only perform single-word searches
of their files, and FBI agents did not have e-mail. They are hoping a new
system will be in place in 2006.

Lieutenant General William Boykin, Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for
Intelligence, formerly in charge of the hunt for Osama bin Laden and
currently directing Iraqi prison reform, is a Republican. He regularly
appears at revival meetings sponsored by a group called the Faith Force
Multiplier, which advocates applying military principles to evangelism. Its
manifesto, "Warrior Message," summons "warriors in this spiritual war for
souls of this nation and the world ." Boykin preaches that "Satan wants to
destroy this nation, he wants to destroy us as a nation, and he wants to
destroy us as a Christian army," and that Muslims "will only be defeated if
we come against them in the name of Jesus". He admits that "George Bush was
not elected by a majority of the voters in the US," but adds: "He was
appointed by God."

Kelli Arena, Justice Department correspondent for CNN, is presumably a
Republican. She reported that "there is some speculation that al Qaeda
believes it has a better chance of winning in Iraq if John Kerry is in the
White House ."

William "Bucky" Bush, uncle of the President, is a Republican. He is a
director of Engineer Support Systems, Inc., which makes military items, such
as the Chemical Biological Protected Shelter System (a mobile shed for a WMD
attack) or the Field Deployable Environmental Control Unit. Since 2001, the
company has had sales to the Pentagon of $300-400 million a year, and the
Department of Homeland Security has ordered a fleet of mobile emergency
communication centers for use in the event of a domestic biochemical attack.
He is also a director of Lord Abbett & Co., which owns 8 million shares of
Halliburton. Jeb Bush inserted a line in the Florida state budget
privatizing elevator inspections. "Bucky" is one of the owners of a company
called National Elevator Inspection Services.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. In the 1980's, Bob and Todd
Urosevich founded a voting machine company, eventually called American
Information Systems (AIS), with money from the Ahmanson family of
California. The Ahmansons are Christian Reconstructionists who want to
establish a theocracy based on biblical law and under the "dominion" of
Christians. They support the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, and
alcoholics. They are members of the secretive Council for National Policy,
which combines remnants of the John Birch Society with apocalyptic
Christians and is considered by many to be the driving force of "hard right"
ideology. The Ahmansons sold the company to the McCarthy Group, whose
Chairman and co-owner was Chuck Hagel. The McCarthy Group bought another
voting machine company, Cronus Industries, from the Hunt oil family in
Texas, also Christian Reconstructionists, who had supplied the original
money for the Council for National Policy. The two voting machine companies
were merged and became Election Systems and Software (ES&S), with Hagel as
CEO.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. ES&S counts 80% of the vote in
the state of Nebraska. In 1996, Hagel resigned from ES&S to run for Senator
from Nebraska. His victory was called a "stunning upset" by Nebraska
newspapers: African-American districts that had never voted for a Republican
voted for Hagel. In 1992, Hagel ran again and received 83% of the vote? 3%
more than ES&S-tabulated votes and the largest election victory in the
history of Nebraska. His Democratic opponent asked for a recount, but the
Republican-dominated state legislature had passed a law that only ES&S could
recount the votes. Hagel won the recount. No longer Chairman of the McCarthy
Group, Hagel had been succeeded by Thomas McCarthy, who was his campaign
treasurer.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. When Jeb Bush first ran for
Governor of Florida, his first choice for Lieutenant Governor was Sandra
Mortham, a lobbyist for ES&S, who was receiving commissions for every county
that bought ES&S machines.

Republicans have a sense of history. John LeBoutillier, former Congressman
and author of Harvard Hates Americia, wants to build the "Counter Clinton
Library," a few minutes walk from the official Clinton Presidential Library
in Little Rock, Arkansas. This library will be devoted to the "distortions,
slanders, spins, and outright lies" of the Clinton Administration.

The Senate of the State of Texas is controlled by Republicans. They passed
an "abortion counseling law" which requires doctors to warn women that
abortion might lead to breast cancer, for which there is no medical
evidence.

The President?s Council of Economic Advisers are Republicans. In order to
show an increase in manufacturing jobs, they are considering reclassifying
fast-food workers as "manufacturers," since they "manufacture" hamburgers.

Republicans like formaldehyde. In support of changing the regulations on
emissions from plywood factories, the White House Office of Management and
Budget deleted references to studies by the National Cancer Institute and
replaced them with references to studies by the Chemical Industry Institute
for Toxicology. The NCI?s estimate of the risk of leukemia from exposure to
formaldehyde was 10,000 times greater than the estimate by the CIIT.

Specialist Sean Baker of the Kentucky National Guard, was probably once a
Republican, but may no longer be one. Assigned to the military prison in
Guantanamo Bay, he volunteered to portray a detainee in a training drill. A
five-man "immediate response force" choked and beat him on the steel floor
of the 6' x 8' cell, despite his shouting the code word and telling his
assailants he was an American soldier. They finally stopped when his orange
prison suit was ripped off, revealing a military uniform. Baker spent 48
days in the hospital and still suffers from seizures. Laurie Arellano, a
Republican and spokesperson for the Pentagon, said that Baker?s hospital
stay was "not related to the beating at Guantanamo." A few days later she
said this was not true. The incident was taped, but the tape has now been
lost.

Bill Nevins may or may not have been a Republican, but it is doubtful he is
still one. A teacher at the huge Rio Rancho High School-- with over 3000
students, the largest in New Mexico? he organized a school poetry club,
which held a Poetry Slam. At the reading, a student read a poem criticizing
the President and the war in Iraq, in language that was neither violent or
obscene. Nevins was immediately fired by the Principal, Gary Tripp, for
promoting "disrespectful speech." He then banned the poetry club and all
classes in poetry, ordered the student to destroy all of her poetry, and
threatened to fire her mother? also a teacher at the school? if the girl did
not. At a school assembly a few days later, Tripp read a poem of his own,
instructing students who disagreed with him to "shut your faces."

Republicans like sex. Jack Ryan, candidate (now former candidate) for
Senator from Illinois, forced his wife (now ex-wife) to visit sadomasochist
sex clubs in New York and Paris and insisted she have sex with him there
while others watched. He defended himself by calling these "romantic
getaways," and noted,"There was no breaking of any laws. There was no
breaking of any marriage laws. There was no breaking of the Ten Commandments
anywhere." Republicans supported him, because, as columnist Robert Novack
said, "Jack Ryan, unlike Bill Clinton, did not commit adultery and did not
lie." Ryan?s ex-wife is the actress Jeri Ryan who, on the television program
"Star Trek," portrayed a Borg. (Motto: "Resistance is futile.")

Republicans like meat, and like their meat regulated by people from the meat
industry. At the US Department of Agriculture (USDA), Elizabeth Johnson,
Senior Advisor on Food and Nutrition, is formerly Associate Director for
Food Policy, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. James Moseley, Deputy
Secretary of Agriculture, is formerly Managing Partner, Infinity Pork. Dale
Moore, Chief of Staff, is formerly Executive Director for Legislative
Affairs, National Cattlemen's Beef Association. Dr. Eric Hentges, Director,
Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, is formerly Vice President, the
National Pork Board. Dr. Charles "Chuck" Lambert, Deputy Undersecretary for
Marketing and Regulatory Programs, is formerly Chief Economist, National
Cattlemen's Beef Association. Donna Reifschneider, Administrator for Grain
Inspection, Packers and Stockyards Administration, is formerly President,
National Pork Producers Council. Mary Kirtley Waters, Assistant Secretary
for Congressional Relations, is formerly Senior Director, ConAgra Foods.
Scott Charbo, Chief Information Officer, is formerly President, mPower3, a
subsidiary of ConAgra Foods. The USDA prohibited Creekstone Farms Premium
Beef, a company in Kansas, from testing all its cattle for mad cow disease,
for it would cause undue alarm among consumers and pressure the other beef
producers to similarly test their stock.

Republicans like Freedom fries (formerly known as French fries). At the
request of the frozen Freedom fry (formerly known as French fry) industry,
the USDA changed the classification of frozen Freedom fries (formerly known
as French fries) to "fresh vegetable," so that the food could be listed in
the Department?s promotion of a healthy diet.

Republicans do not like sex. Robert F. McDonnell, Chairman of the House
Courts of Justice Committee for the State of Virginia, said that "engaging
in anal or oral sex might disqualify a person from being a judge."
Republicans like sex. A few days later, McDonnell?s campaign manager, Robin
Vanderwell, was arrested for soliciting a young boy over the internet.

Ralph Reed is a Republican. When he was the director of the Christian
Coalition, he campaigned against gambling, calling it a "cancer on the
American body politic" that is "stealing food from the mouths of children."
He is now the lobbyist for a large casino.

Anna Perez, former Counselor for Communications to Condoleezza Rice and
former Press Secretary for Barbara Bush, is a Republican. NBC appointed her
Executive Vice President for Communications. "I love the television
business," she said, although "I have no expertise in it."

Paul O?Neill is a Republican. When he was Secretary of the Treasury, he
recommended that corporations pay no taxes at all. As it is, only 60% of
corporations currently pay federal taxes.

Michael Skupkin, founder of a religious software company and leader of the
Presidential Prayer Team, is a Republican. He was urged to run for Senator
from Michigan, but eventually refused. Skupkin had become famous on the
televison program, "Survivor 2," for catching and slaughtering a wild boar
with his bare hands, and then painting his face with its blood. The
Presidential Prayer Team is an independent organization with millions of
participants, who are given daily instructions, such as: "Pray for the
president as he meets with Singaporean Prime Minister Goh Chok Ton on May 6.
The two leaders will discuss strengthening our bilateral relations as well
as the U.S.-Singapore Free Trade Agreement."

Mark Rey, former Vice President of the American Forest and Paper
Association, former Vice President of the National Forest Products
Association, former Executive Director of the American Forest Resource
Alliance, a coalition of 350 timber corporations, is a Republican. As the
Under Secretary for Natural Resources and the Environment, he now oversees
the U.S. Forest Service, and is responsible for the management of 155
national forests, 19 national grasslands, and 15 land utilization projects
on 192,000,000 acres of publicly-owned lands in 44 states. He is the author
of the "Salvage Rider," which suspended all environmental laws in the
national forests, and which was called by the New York Times "the worst
piece of conservation legislation ever written."

Republicans like electronic voting machines. 8 million people? 8% of the
voters? vote on machines made by Diebold Inc., whose CEO is Wally O?Dell. In
2000 O?Dell was Chairman of the Ohio Bush for President Committee. In 2004
he has said that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral
votes to the President." Bob Urosevich, co-founder of AIS, is now Director
of Diebold Election Systems. (His brother remains at ES&S.)

Republicans support education. This year the President has proposed new
education initiatives: $40 million to help math and science professionals
become teachers, $52 million to create more Advanced Placement courses in
high school, $100 million for reading for middle and high schoolers who
still have trouble reading, and $270 million for sexual abstinence classes.

Republicans support legislation with cheerful names: Healthy Forests, Clean
Skies, Climate Leaders, No Child Left Behind, KidCare. Healthy Forests opens
up Sequoia National Park and other parks and national wilderness areas to
logging and more roads for loggers. Clean Skies allows 68% more nitrogen
oxide, 125% more sulfur dioxide, and 420% more mercury air pollution than
the Clean Air law it replaces. Climate Leaders is a plan for businesses to
voluntarily reduce their greenhouse gas emissions; of the many thousands of
potential Leaders, only 14 have volunteered. No Child Left Behind cuts most
school programs in favor of standardized testing. KidCare, a Jeb Bush
initiative in the state of Florida, resulted in 167,500 children losing
their medical insurance.

Jerry Thacker, marketing consultant and member of the Presidential Advisory
Commission on AIDS and HIV, is a Republican. He has called AIDS the "gay
plague," describes homosexuality as a "deathstyle," and states that only
"Christ can rescue the homosexual."

The Rev. Scott Breedlove, pastor of the Jesus Church of Cedar Rapids, Iowa,
is probably a Republican. His plans for a large outdoor book-burning were
thwarted by officials of the Cedar Rapids Fire Department. A city fire
inspector suggested shredding the books, but Breedlove said that didn?t seem
very biblical.

Pat Tillman was probably a Republican. After September 11, he gave up a
multimillion dollar contract as a professional football player to join the
Army Rangers in Afghanistan, where he died in combat. As the only soldier
with some previous national recognition, he was on the verge of media
canonization when it was revealed that he had been killed by American troops
in a "friendly fire" incident.

Zell Miller, Senator from Georgia, might as well be a Republican. He is a
Democrat who campaigns for the President and speaks at Republican events.
The torture at Abu Ghraib prison reminded him of his high school gym: "The
two times I think I have been most humiliated in my life was standing in a
big room, naked as a jaybird with about fifty others and they were checking
us out, now that was humiliating. It was humiliating showering with sixty
others in a public shower. It didn't kill us did it? No one ever died from
humiliation."

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Police and intelligence authorities are
now examining immigration files and lists of voter registration, driver?s
licences, university enrollment, library withdrawals, airplane reservations,
credit card purchases, birth certificates, and Social Security numbers in
the attempt to uncover terrorist links. They have, however, been expressly
forbidden by Attorney General Ashcroft from looking at the lists of
background checks for gun purchasers.

Republicans are fighting terrorism, but it is sometimes difficult to tell
who is a terrorist and who is a Republican. Attorney General John Ashcroft
has warned that al-Qaeda operatives in the United States are very likely to
be "European-looking," in their late twenties or early thirties, traveling
with their families, and speaking English.

Republican like large bombs. Having already developed the Massive Ordnamce
Air Blast (MOAB), a 21,000-pound bomb, they are now working on MOP, the
Massive Ordnance Penetrator, which weighs 30,000 pounds.

Rick Perry, Governor of Texas, is a Republican. He does not believe that the
wealthy should pay for the education of the poor, so he has proposed
reducing property taxes and replacing them with larger taxes on cigarettes
and alcohol, and a $5 tax every time a patron enters a topless bar.
John Graham, former CEO of Strat at comm, a public relations and lobbying firm
for the automobile industry, and founder of the Sports Utility Vehicle
Owners of America, is a Republican. As the Administrator in Charge of
Regulations for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, he has
introduced greatly inferior standards for automobile tires.

Judge John Leon Holmes, appointed by the President to a lifetime seat on the
Federal District Court, is a Republican. He supports a constitutional
amendment banning abortion, has compared pro-choice advocates to Nazis and
abortion to slavery, and has written that "concern for rape victims is a red
herring because conceptions from rape occur with approximately the same
frequency as snowfall in Miami." Confronted with statistics showing that
some 30,000 American women become pregnant each year from rape or incest,
Jeff Sessions, Senator from Alabama and a Republican, defended Holmes by
saying that he was merely using "a literary device called exaggeration for
effect."

Josh Llano, Southern Baptist Army chaplain in Iraq, is a Republican. At the
Army V Corps camp in the desert near Najaf, where water is in short supply
and washing rare, he was given a 500-gallon pool to use for baptisms.
Soldiers are agreeing to sit through the three-hour ceremony in order to get
a bath.

Republicans are fighting terrorism. Rick Santorum, Senator from
Pennsylvania, in support of the constitutional amendment banning gay
marriage, said: "I would argue that the future of our country hangs in the
balance because the future of marriage hangs in the balance. Isn't that the
ultimate homeland security, standing up and defending marriage?"

Republicans are fighting terrorism. In October 2001, Ansar Mahmood, a pizza
delivery man and legal immigrant in Hudson, New York, went to the banks of
the Hudson River to take some photographs of the beautiful scenery to send
to his village in Pakistan. What he did not know was that he was standing
near a water treatment plant and that there was a general hysteria about
terrorists poisoning the water supply. Mahmood is still in jail.

Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi, is a Republican. His campaign was
vigorously supported by the President and the Council of Conservative
Citizens, which supports deporting African-Americans to Africa, denies the
Holocaust took place, and opposes the immigration of all non-white people as
well as the "mixing of the races."

Allan Fitzsimmons, Fuels Coordinator at the Department of Interior and in
charge of implementing the Healthy Forests initiative, is a Republican.
Although he has no background in forest management, he has written articles
questioning the existence of ecosystems, calling them a "mental construct."
He has accused religious organizations that promote protecting the
environment of succumbing to idolatry.

Republicans do not like children. The Food and Drug Administration has
eliminated laws requiring separate testing for drugs that are prescribed for
children as well as adults.

Republicans like to help impoverished nations. The Administration has
proposed that these countries generate income by allowing hunters to kill
elephants and other "trophy" animals, and wildlife traders and the pet
industry to capture rare birds. It has also proposed that the importation of
ivory tusks, skins, and antlers be made legal again.

Republicans like electronic voting machines. It was a surprise when Max
Cleland, a popular Democratic Senator from Georgia, lost his bid for
re-election. Some attributed the defeat to Republican television
advertisements juxtaposing Cleland with Osama bin Laden, questioning the
Senator?s patriotism even though Cleland had lost both legs and an arm in
the Vietnam War. This was the first election in which all votes in Georgia
were cast on electronic voting machines. The machines were manufactured by
Diebold.

Republicans do not like international treaties.

Randall Tobias, global coordinator for AIDS, is a Republican. After two
years, only 2% of the $18 billion allotted to fight AIDS has been spent.
One-third of it, by law, must be used for "abstinence education." Much of
the rest will be spent on drugs. Tobias decides whether the Administration
will purchase generic drugs or name-brand drugs, which are three to five
times as expensive. Tobias is the former CEO of the pharmaceutical
corporation Eli Lilly, which has donated at least $1.5 million to
Republicans since 2000.

William G. Myers, recently appointed to a lifetime seat on the Court of
Appeals, is a Republican. Evidently a classical scholar, he referred to the
California Desert Protection Act, which created Joshua Tree National Park,
Death Valley National Park, and the Mojave National Preserve, as "an example
of legislative hubris."

Republicans like electronic voting machines. The State of Maryland is
worried about possible fraud in its machines, so it has hired the Science
Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to oversee elections. The
former CEO of SAIC and current Chairman of its VoteHere division, is Admiral
Bill Owens, former military aide to Dick Cheney.

Republicans do not like the cactus pygmy owl, although there are only thirty
left, Puget Sound orcas, Florida manatees, Florida panthers, or the Kemp?s
ridley turtle.

Cindy Jacobs is a Republican. She is the founder of the Generals of
Intercession, an organization devoted to "winning nations for Christ"
through a "military-style prayer strategy." In 2002, God told her that the
U.S. would invade Iraq, and she convened an "international gathering of
Generals" in Washington, D.C.. "Each of us felt in our hearts that God wants
to humble the spirit of Islam and its god, Allah, and that God is leading
President Bush." At the meeting, according to Jacobs, one of the Generals
said "she had been studying Jeremiah 50:2, which says, ?Declare among the
nations, Proclaim, and set up a standard; Proclaim--do not conceal it--Say,
Babylon is taken, Bel is shamed.? Some Bible translations say ?confounded?
rather than ?shamed.? As she looked up the word ?confounded? in her lexicon,
she found that the word in Hebrew is ?Bush?! We were amazed at that!"

Mickey Mouse is a Republican. 7.3 million shares of Disney are owned by the
Florida state pension fund, which is controlled by Jeb Bush. Disney has an
agreement with the state granting them complete control, "free from
government oversight," of over 40,000 acres. In the days following September
11, the President urged the country to "Go down to Disney World in Florida.
Take your families and enjoy life." Disney refused to allow its Miramax
division to distribute the Michael Moore film "Fahrenheit 9/11."

Republicans are fighting terrorism, but the one genuine terrorist captured,
accidentally, on American soil, has never been mentioned in the 2,295 press
releases issued by John Ashcroft and the Office of the Attorney General.
William Krar of Noonday, Texas, mailed a package containing false U.N.
credentials, Defense Intelligence Agency identification cards, phony birth
certificates, and forged federal concealed weapons permits to a fellow
terrorist. The Post Office delivered it to the wrong address, and the
recipient notified the FBI. At Krar?s home they found fully automatic
machine guns, remote-controlled explosive devices disguised as briefcases,
60 pipe bombs, 500,000 rounds of ammunition, and enough pure sodium cyanide,
as the FBI said, "to kill everyone inside a 30,000 square foot building.
Krar, however, is a White Supremacist, and not a Muslim.

Republicans do not like elections. After the Presidential election of 2000,
Congress approved $4 billion to help states improve their voting systems for
the 2004 election. Very little of the money has been distributed. Congress
also created the Election Assistance Commission to oversee these
improvements. For years, the White House delayed appointing any members or
providing any of the funds appropriated. In 2004, it named DeForest "Buster"
Soaries Jr., a New Jersey minister, as Director of the Commission. His first
act was to ask for emergency legislation from Congress giving the Commission
the authority to cancel the elections in the event of a terrorist attack.

God is a Republican. Speaking to a group of Amish farmers, the President
told them: "God speaks through me."

Republicans have a sense of history. Mitch McConnell, Senator from Kentucky,
wants to replace Alexander Hamilton on the $10 bill with Ronald Reagan. Dana
Rohrabacher, Congressman from California, wants to replace Andrew Jackson on
the $20 bill with Ronald Reagan. Jeff Miller, Congressman from Florida,
wants to replace John Kennedy on the 50-cent piece with Ronald Reagan. Mark
Souder, Congressman from Indiana, wants to replace Franklin Roosevelt on the
dime with Ronald Reagan. Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader, wants to rename
the Pentagon as the Ronald Reagan National Defense Building. Grover Norquist
of the Leave Us Alone Coalition (whose weekly meetings are attended by
representatives of the President and Vice President) and Director of the
Ronald Reagan Legacy Project, wants to put a monument to Ronald Reagan in
every one of the 3000 counties in the United States. Matt Salmon,
Congressman from Arizona, wants Ronald Reagan?s head carved on Mount
Rushmore.

George W. Bush, President of the United States, is a Republican. To
demonstrate personal sacrifice and his determination to win the War on
Terror, he gave up desserts and candy a few days before he announced the
invasion of Iraq.

[1 August 2004]

Copyright c. 2004 Eliot Weinberger. This may circulate freely on the
internet; for print publication please write: unreal at att.net
<mailto:unreal at att.net> .

Eliot Weinberger's chronicles of the Bush Era are collected in 9/12,
published by Prickly Paradigm/Univ. of Chicago Press.

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


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From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 16:18:57 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:18:57 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <1a3.27b2073d.2e43f031@aol.com>

would it be a crazy idea to try and put together a book of poems that i  have 
written.
if so how do i go about this.. where would i take it to get it published /  
looked at ?
 


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From clitophon  Thu Aug  5 16:29:44 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
In-Reply-To: <1a3.27b2073d.2e43f031@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040805202944.51539.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com>

my advice to you is do not on any account listen to
advice
advisors will only tell you how to repeat their
mistakes
PM
--- LiquidLoveGate at aol.com wrote:

> would it be a crazy idea to try and put together a
> book of poems that i  have 
> written.
> if so how do i go about this.. where would i take it
> to get it published /  
> looked at ?
>  
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail



From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 16:31:36 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:31:36 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <12c.4844d850.2e43f328@aol.com>

so u say listen to my own heart.
if i want to do something go for it...
 
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From clitophon  Thu Aug  5 16:50:59 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
In-Reply-To: <12c.4844d850.2e43f328@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040805205059.54925.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com>

I think so but can the heart really be listened to? 
I?d try to cultivate personal contacts rather than
submitting blind.  I submit blind but living in
Belfast it is impossible for me to read all the little
journals.  Being blind is better than knowing at least
half of the other poets around.  I met Roger Elkin,
Wolfgang, Erminia and at least a dozen other rascals
and assorted lollypopwomen this way.  
PM
--- LiquidLoveGate at aol.com wrote:

> so u say listen to my own heart.
> if i want to do something go for it...
>  
> > _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 



From terzarima  Thu Aug  5 17:20:25 2004
From: terzarima (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:20:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <5970294.1091740825674.JavaMail.root@huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

I would advise you to simply read a lot.  You have to love poetry enough to read a great deal of it first.

There really is no simple formula to follow, and I'm afraid simply "following your heart" is not really going to help you. :-)  You need some knowledge as well.

Editors have their tastes, so the first step is to get to know what it is they like to publish. Read them throughly and get to know them well. Read publications you love and send your work there <b>-->but only if you feel your work might fit in<--</b> . 

If you aren't sure what publications you will really love, do this:  Pick out a contemporary poet whose work you really like and see what magazines published them.  Read those magazines! Subscribe! This will probably lead you to some other poets whose work you might also really enjoy, and it will give you a chance to get to know more thoroughly what the editors of that publication are looking for.  

Just read a lot, read endlessly, read, read, read and don't worry about publishing your own work for awhile. After awhile, you will probably gravitate toward those publications that might like what you have to offer, and by then you will do so from a position of some knowledge and understanding.  Whatever you do: DON'T send your work out en masse or at random. It really is a waste of postage, and it is remarkably easy for editors to tell who actually reads their publication and who is just using mail merge.

That's really all you can do. Like I said, there isn't any magical formula. For what it is worth, everyone I know who has published their work has had as much interest in what is being written by other poets as they have had in their own work, and they have tended to live in apartments furnished mostly by books. They invariably love poetry with a deep passion, and are the kind of people who would keep writing it and reading it whether or not their own work ever got published. If you don't have this love, you won't be able to sustain the effort. 

My two bits,

Suzanne  

-----Original Message-----
From: LiquidLoveGate at aol.com
Sent: Aug 5, 2004 1:31 PM
To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing

so u say listen to my own heart.
if i want to do something go for it...
 




From LiquidLoveGate  Thu Aug  5 17:21:46 2004
From: LiquidLoveGate (LiquidLoveGate at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:21:46 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <1cc.27b589cf.2e43feea@aol.com>

OK Pm answer me this.
what would you do..
i have  a whole bunch of poems that i have written
they are in a folder that i have sitting in my study.
Noone sees them. i feel like i could be doing a lot
more with my work than what i am already.
and i want to.
i want people to be able to see my work and my talent..
whats my first step.
put yourself in my situation if you havent acomplished it
already..
what do i do.. keep it just to myself. or actually do something
with my work so people can see .
RC
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From kpaul  Thu Aug  5 19:23:18 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:23:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
In-Reply-To: <1cc.27b589cf.2e43feea@aol.com>
References: <1cc.27b589cf.2e43feea@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040805182058.G47019@kpaul.spinweb.net>

is the poetry useful to you with no one else everhaving read it?

if you do need/want readers other than self, i would get me feet wet 
online. stay away from poetry.com, but there are quite a few good poetry 
forums and sites out there for poets.

i guess i would ask you, tho, what role your poems play to you 
personally...

-kpaul

p.s. sorry for butting in, but Pm is my intials too sort of ;)

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 LiquidLoveGate at aol.com wrote:

> OK Pm answer me this.
> what would you do..
> i have  a whole bunch of poems that i have written
> they are in a folder that i have sitting in my study.
> Noone sees them. i feel like i could be doing a lot
> more with my work than what i am already.
> and i want to.
> i want people to be able to see my work and my talent..
> whats my first step.
> put yourself in my situation if you havent acomplished it
> already..
> what do i do.. keep it just to myself. or actually do something
> with my work so people can see .
> RC
>



From VanShel400  Fri Aug  6 07:15:23 2004
From: VanShel400 (VanShel400 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 07:15:23 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Question about books/ publishing
Message-ID: <a3.5ff17b82.2e44c24b@aol.com>

Try going to open mic poetry readings
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From JforJames  Fri Aug  6 13:38:37 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:38:37 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Melic XXIV Now Online
Message-ID: <1c4.1cac2a24.2e451c1d@aol.com>

From: inbox at melicreview.com 
To: melicreview at hotmail.com 
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: Melic XXIV Now Online!
 
Welcome to Melic XXIV!
www.melicreview.com/current/
 
(First, we beg your indulgence if this is an unwanted announcement worthy of 
your spam folder, as we need to tidy up our mailing list.)
 
It?s hard to believe we?ve entered our seventh year online (our first issue 
debuted in Spring of 1998). I think this an exceptional issue and give all 
credit to Jim Zola, Poetry Editor (assisted by Walter Bargen), and to Val 
Cihylik, Fiction Editor. As for the essays, I must give my wife, Kathleen, credit for 
her editing and contributions. Should we list the authors? Most subscriber?s 
letters do, so here goes:
 
Poetry:
 
Sarah Allard, Rae Armantrout, John Balaban, Marcus Bales, Donna Biffar, Jared 
Carter, Joshua Corey, Juan Delgado, Debra Di Blasi, Thomas Dorsett, Camille 
Dungy, Bob Grumman, R. S. Gwynn, Annalynn Hammond, Mark Jarman, Meg Kearney, 
Guy Kettlehack, Michael Paul Ladanyi, Christine Klocek-Lim, Tom Moore, Dan 
Memmolo, Aimee Nezhukumatathil, Richard Newman, Nancy Powers, Chris O?Carroll, 
David Ray, Tad Richards, Lee Ann Roripaugh, John Rybicki, Evie Shockley, Jim 
Simmerman, W. D. Snodgrass, Dawn Tefft, Dara Wier, Kelley Jean White, Michael 
White, Leslie Wolf, and Clarence Wolfshohl.
 
Fiction:
 
Gwendolyn Joyce Mintz, Corey Mesler, Kirby Wright, Siew Siang Tay, and 
Michael K. White.
 
Essays
 
C. E. Chaffin
 
Web Design
 
The multi-talented Jim Zola!
 
>From the Poetry Editor: 
 
"Finishing a year as poetry editor at Melic was an accomplishment in itself. 
My initial objective when I took this position was to try and act as 
matchmaker between the worlds of print and online poetry. Not an easy task. I also 
wanted to keep the poetry selections diverse. In order to keep me honest in this 
second objective, I solicited the help of several other poets." 
 
--Jim Zola
 
>From the Guest Assistant Poetry Editor:
 
I believe that these poems "act naturally" and bridge those chasms between 
emotion and artifice, between the reader and the wizard behind the curtain, and 
I want to thank everyone who gave me the opportunity to read their work. 
 
--Walter Bargen
 
>From the Fiction Editor: 
 
The five stories in this issue truly do run the gamut from the serious to the 
ridiculous: mistaken identity at a Civil War homecoming, a World War I hero 
not so lucky in life, a furry animal as a cure for a broken heart, the messy 
confluence of a completely different furry animal, a poltergeist and mayonnaise, 
and a cautionary tale about a schoolyard experiment with words that goes 
awry. So crank up the AC, fire up your computer and enjoy.
 
--Val Cihylik
 
Submissions are now open until October 31 for our December issue. Poets 
interested in submitting should first read CE?s essay, "Towards a New Direction in 
Poetry," as we will be looking for "power lyrics." (This does not mean we 
shall exclude other styles of sufficient quality!)
 
Thine for Melic,
 
C. E. Chaffin, Editor
melicreview at hotmail.com
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From elemenope  Fri Aug  6 13:24:52 2004
From: elemenope (ELEMENOPE Productions)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 01:24:52 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Weinberger Doesn't Examine Sandy Bergler's Slop
 Espionage, Also, Alas.
In-Reply-To: <200408051943.i75JhbYD010536@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200408051943.i75JhbYD010536@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100307bd3905e82d5c@[204.215.202.31]>

The DemKrat RadLib approach to stupidity, as exemplified in their 
Billionaire-by-Marriage-to-a-Spouse-who-is-as-well-a-Billionaire-by-Marriage 
War Hero candidate (by virtue of four months in Nam, hmmm, that's a 
medal a month [all discarded into quantum space/time where they 
reappeared on his Senate office wall], and, hey, three Purple Hearts 
[one, self inflicted by self thrown hand grenade mishap with 
resultant rice fussilade shrapnel to his absurd butt] and by obscure 
regulation the cleverest Operator gets an early out!), is to STUPIFY, 
to wit:

>THE PATRIOT PERSPECTIVE
>
>Kerry is AWOL from Iraq...
>
>"I will be a commander-in-chief who will never mislead us into
>war," claims John Kerry, with a none-too-subtle implication
>that President George W. Bush lied about the threat posed by
>Saddam Hussein.
>
>On that note, we decided to take a look at the historical
>record. Indeed, we wanted to know precisely what the senator from
>Massachusetts had been saying all along about the Butcher of
>Baghdad. Lo and behold, we found that Kerry makes a compelling
>argument in support of President's Bush's actions to free the
>Iraqi people -- and the world -- from Saddam's terror.
>
>Back in 1991, Kerry voted against the use of force in removing
>Iraq from neighboring Kuwait (S. J. Res. 2), later explaining that
>he only "voted against the timing of it. I said very clearly in
>my statement on the Senate floor that I was committed to getting
>Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait...and that I was prepared to go to
>war if it took that...."
>
>Regarding Bill Clinton's attacks on Iraqi targets, Kerry said
>in 1997, "So clearly the allies may not like it...where's the
>backbone of Russia, where's the backbone of France, where are they
>in expressing their condemnation of such clearly illegal activity?"
>
>A year later, after additional bombing, Kerry said, "We have to
>be prepared to go the full distance, which is to do everything
>possible to disrupt [Saddam's] regime and to encourage the
>forces of democracy. ... [H]e can rebuild both chemical and
>biological. And every indication is, because of his deception
>and duplicity in the past, he will seek to do that. So we will
>not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the
>world with a bombing attack. ... I believe that in the post-Cold
>War period this issue of proliferation, particularly in the hands
>of Saddam Hussein, is critical."
>
>Three months after the 9/11 attack on our countrymen by
>state-supported Jihadi terrorists, Kerry argued, "Saddam is
>one who is and has acted like a terrorist. ... For instance,
>Saddam Hussein has used weapons of mass destruction against his
>own people. ... He is and has acted like a terrorist, and he has
>engaged in activities that are unacceptable."
>
>Reiterating his position on Saddam prior to 9/11, Kerry said, "[I]
>think we ought to put the heat on Saddam Hussein. I've said that
>for a number of years. I criticized the Clinton administration
>for backing off of the inspections...." He then added, "I think
>we need to put the pressure on, no matter what the evidence is
>about September 11."
>
>Regarding Afghanistan and Iraq, Kerry said, "I think we clearly
>have to keep the pressure on terrorism globally. This doesn't end
>with Afghanistan by any imagination. And I think the president
>has made that clear. I think we have made that clear. Terrorism is
>a global menace. It's a scourge. And it is absolutely vital that
>we continue [to combat terrorism], for instance, Saddam Hussein."
>
>Regarding diplomatic solutions and the Bush administration's
>efforts to get the UN to enforce the Security Council's unanimous
>mandates on Iraqi arms, Kerry said, in May of 2002, "[Saddam is]
>buying time and playing a game, in my judgment. Do we have to go
>through that process? The answer is yes. We're precisely doing
>that. And I think that's what Colin Powell did today."
>
>In July of 2002, Kerry told the Democrat Leadership Council,
>"I agree completely with this Administration's goal of a regime
>change in Iraq.... Saddam Hussein is a renegade and outlaw who
>turned his back on the tough conditions of his surrender put in
>place by the United Nations in 1991."
>
>That's "completely," fellow Patriots.
>
>A month later in a New York Times op-ed, Kerry asserted, "If Saddam
>Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's
>already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement even
>if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States,
>a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act."
>
>That's even if it's "mostly at the hands of the United States."
>
>In September of 2002, a year after 9/11, Kerry said: "It is
>imperative that we issue an ultimatum to Saddam Hussein, and
>that would require immediate and full compliance, and if Hussein
>doesn't comply, the United States must be prepared to go in
>and...if need be, largely alone remove Saddam Hussein from power.
>There is also no question that Saddam Hussein continues to pursue
>weapons of mass destruction, and his success can threaten both our
>interests in the region and our security at home. ...[Saddam] may
>even miscalculate and slide these [WMD] off to terrorist groups
>to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United
>States. It's the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat."
>
>A few days later, he told MSNBC, "The president...always reserves
>the right to act unilaterally to protect the interests of our
>country." On 11 October 2002, Kerry voted for the Iraq War
>Resolution (H.J. Res. 114).
>
>That's "unilaterally."
>
>In May of 2003, Kerry defended that vote, saying, "I think it
>was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the
>President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the
>fact that we did disarm him." But when Howard Dean turned up the
>heat with his anti-war message, Kerry began to waffle. Announcing
>his candidacy, Kerry's support for regime change morphed into,
>"I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein
>comply with the resolutions of the United Nations."
>
>Notice the head of the pin on which Kerry is now attempting to
>dance. He's claiming that he only "voted to threaten the use of
>force." In other words, he's now insisting that he only voted to
>deliver a hollow threat. Not exactly a profile in courage, eh?
>
>As the Demo-primary season approached, Kerry began to hone his
>newfound opposition to the removal of Saddam: "They rushed to
>war. They were intent on going to war."
>
>When it came time to provide supplemental appropriations for
>our troops in Iraq, Kerry (who planned to run his campaign on
>his veteran status) claimed, "I don't think any United States
>senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to
>whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That's
>irresponsible.  I don't think anyone in the Congress is going to
>not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability
>to be able to defend themselves. We're not going to cut and run
>and not do the job."
>
>But on 17 October 2003, Kerry abandoned our troops, voting
>against S. 1689, the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for
>Iraq and Afghanistan Security and Reconstruction. Thus, he put
>pure political expedience ahead of his obligation to arm and
>equip our fighting forces -- specifically those fighting forces
>currently standing in harm's way.
>
>In January of this year, when asked if he was "one of the
>anti-war candidates," Kerry answered firmly, "I am -- yeah." After
>announcing his running mate in March, he said of John Edwards,
>"I'm proud to say that John joined me in voting against that
>$87 billion...."
>
>Got that? He's actually "proud" of having stiffed our troops.
>
>Last month, when asked by CBS if his vote for the removal of
>Saddam was a mistake (which, politically, it clearly was), Kerry
>fumbled his answer: "What -- what -- what I voted for, you --
>you -- you see, you're playing here. What -- what I voted for
>was a -- an authority for the president to go to war as a last
>resort if Saddam Hussein did not disarm and we needed to go to
>war." When pressed for a direct answer to the question, Kerry
>responded curtly, "I think I answered your question."
>
>When asked why he "voted for the war, but didn't vote for
>the money to finance the war," Kerry responded, "That's not a
>flip-flop. That's not a flip-flop."
>
>And this week, Kerry claims, "I believe this administration is
>actually encouraging the recruitment of terrorists. The policies
>of this administration, I believe and others believe very deeply,
>have resulted in an increase of animosity and anger focused on
>the United States of America." (Here we suppose "others" is in
>reference to the same yet-to-be-identified foreign leaders who
>Kerry claims support his candidacy.)
>
>The reality is, of course, that it's our very existence, and not
>our actions, that the Jihadis really object to. Kerry's failure
>to acknowledge this fact is indicative of just how deeply he has
>delved into the fevered swamp.
>
>Last week, greeting Demo-conventioneers with a limp Clintonesque
>salute, Kerry intoned that he was "reporting for duty." To which
>we say, it's about time -- because he has been AWOL from Iraq
>since he voted to invade.

Commentator:  Mark Alexander

Forwarded by:  Richard Dillon
ELEMENOPE Productions

I'll take Alexander's Republican Federalism over Eliot Weinberger's 
RadLib Legerdemain from here to eternity.

For those who have read this far, here is my astrological prediction 
on the Fight: On the day of the election, November 2, 2004, the Great 
Benefic, Jupiter, will be aspecting both candidates charts with 
utmost drama.  W will see a Jupiter return activating the roots of 
his life.  He will feel grounded and good.  No anxiety.  The 
consummate moxie the RadLibs so hate will be burning brightly. 
Kerry, on the other hand, will have reached the culmination of his 
entire life campaign begun when he entered the Navy during the 
Vietnam War.  In my view, and in the view of practioners of this 
craft that I respect, Kerry will be finally seen for what he is:  A 
bamboozler.  For, that same Jupiter, transiting his MidHeaven, the 
acme of his public reknown, is, as well, connected to his Neptune, 
planet of duplicity and illusion and fraud and film. (FILM!)  He and 
his partners, the Hollywood smiling Shyster and Mop Headed Mother 
Ketchup, will have been seen for what they are.  Their absurd jig 
will be up.  America will move on, having escaped their grasping 
frenzy as well as the ever mounting shadow of G. Goldfinger Soros.

If I am wrong on that day, I will admit it here, as well as my 
profound regret and fear for what the country will become in their 
seditious hands.  But, hey, Professor Gudding will be crowing along 
with Weinberger ( - whose poem, _Atlantis_, succeeded.  Frankly, 
Eliot should read his Zell Miller before going any further with this 
sort of rant.  But, hey, I only used to run into Paz on Harvard St., 
Eliot, to his undying credit, was his translator.).

R.D.



>
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:02:32 -0800
>From: "Chris Stroffolino " <cstroffo at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
>To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
>	<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>Message-ID: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338 at pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Ah, what an "ear" that fella whineburger's got
>
>
>
>
>Republicans: A Prose Poem
>Eliot Weinberger
>
>"They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
>and freedom, and individual liberty."
>President George W. Bush
>
>"I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
>Vice-President Dick Cheney

We are, except by the allies of Eliot Weinberger and Professor Gudding.



On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his 
children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon 
learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood 
harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda. 
That's the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the 
truth, even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"



>

-- 



From alphavil  Sat Aug  7 01:45:21 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 01:45:21 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Weinberger Doesn't Examine Sandy Bergler's Slop
	Espionage, Also, Alas.
In-Reply-To: <a05100307bd3905e82d5c@[204.215.202.31]>
References: <200408051943.i75JhbYD010536@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100307bd3905e82d5c@[204.215.202.31]>
Message-ID: <41146C71.8070709@ix.netcom.com>



ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:

> <The DemKraut Rabid approach to ignorance, as exemplified> by 
> melo-dramatic gesture of throwing away his three quarters a month 
> medals as part of a long term, Ivy League dream/scheme to become chief 
> executive. Pure self-serving vanity. Four months in country, got his 
> fuckin' nose a little bloodied then out. All for his long range 
> political advantage. Then he closed down his subcommittee on 
> Narcotics, Terrorism and International Communications---e.g. money 
> laundering, just when it was gettin' good implicating dozens of 
> Iran-contra figures, again in exchange for intelligence backing for 
> his future candidacy. Screw that. Throwing away medals that today 
> would fetch $25.00 EACH! on E-Bay shows just how much of an advantage 
> the kleptocracy has over all us economic niggers.

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm

'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh Republican Vets Criticize 
Kleptocrats Kerry, McCain, Bob Kerrey et al:
Future Kleptocratic Candidates Put On Notice That War Record "Ain't Shit".:
North Korea And Iran Honor 'Swift Vote Veterans For Truth' With Quiet 
Ceremonies And Military Parades

An Assassinated Press Primary Document
Translated and edited by YASO ADIODI

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm



> . while our in their 
> Billionaire-by-Marriage-to-a-Spouse-who-is-as-well-a-Billionaire-by-Marriage 
> War Hero candidate (by virtue of four months in Nam, hmmm, that's a 
> medal a month [all discarded into quantum space/time where they 
> reappeared on his Senate office wall], and, hey, three Purple Hearts 
> [one, self inflicted by self thrown hand grenade mishap with resultant 
> rice fussilade shrapnel to his absurd butt] and by obscure regulation 
> the cleverest Operator gets an early out!), is to STUPIFY, to wit:
>
>> THE PATRIOT PERSPECTIVE
>>
>> Kerry is AWOL from Iraq...
>>
>> "I will be a commander-in-chief who will never mislead us into
>> war," claims John Kerry, with a none-too-subtle implication
>> that President George W. Bush lied about the threat posed by
>> Saddam Hussein.
>>
>> On that note, we decided to take a look at the historical
>> record. Indeed, we wanted to know precisely what the senator from
>> Massachusetts had been saying all along about the Butcher of
>> Baghdad. Lo and behold, we found that Kerry makes a compelling
>> argument in support of President's Bush's actions to free the
>> Iraqi people -- and the world -- from Saddam's terror.
>>
>> Back in 1991, Kerry voted against the use of force in removing
>> Iraq from neighboring Kuwait (S. J. Res. 2), later explaining that
>> he only "voted against the timing of it. I said very clearly in
>> my statement on the Senate floor that I was committed to getting
>> Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait...and that I was prepared to go to
>> war if it took that...."
>>
>> Regarding Bill Clinton's attacks on Iraqi targets, Kerry said
>> in 1997, "So clearly the allies may not like it...where's the
>> backbone of Russia, where's the backbone of France, where are they
>> in expressing their condemnation of such clearly illegal activity?"
>>
>> A year later, after additional bombing, Kerry said, "We have to
>> be prepared to go the full distance, which is to do everything
>> possible to disrupt [Saddam's] regime and to encourage the
>> forces of democracy. ... [H]e can rebuild both chemical and
>> biological. And every indication is, because of his deception
>> and duplicity in the past, he will seek to do that. So we will
>> not eliminate the problem for ourselves or for the rest of the
>> world with a bombing attack. ... I believe that in the post-Cold
>> War period this issue of proliferation, particularly in the hands
>> of Saddam Hussein, is critical."
>>
>> Three months after the 9/11 attack on our countrymen by
>> state-supported Jihadi terrorists, Kerry argued, "Saddam is
>> one who is and has acted like a terrorist. ... For instance,
>> Saddam Hussein has used weapons of mass destruction against his
>> own people. ... He is and has acted like a terrorist, and he has
>> engaged in activities that are unacceptable."
>>
>> Reiterating his position on Saddam prior to 9/11, Kerry said, "[I]
>> think we ought to put the heat on Saddam Hussein. I've said that
>> for a number of years. I criticized the Clinton administration
>> for backing off of the inspections...." He then added, "I think
>> we need to put the pressure on, no matter what the evidence is
>> about September 11."
>>
>> Regarding Afghanistan and Iraq, Kerry said, "I think we clearly
>> have to keep the pressure on terrorism globally. This doesn't end
>> with Afghanistan by any imagination. And I think the president
>> has made that clear. I think we have made that clear. Terrorism is
>> a global menace. It's a scourge. And it is absolutely vital that
>> we continue [to combat terrorism], for instance, Saddam Hussein."
>>
>> Regarding diplomatic solutions and the Bush administration's
>> efforts to get the UN to enforce the Security Council's unanimous
>> mandates on Iraqi arms, Kerry said, in May of 2002, "[Saddam is]
>> buying time and playing a game, in my judgment. Do we have to go
>> through that process? The answer is yes. We're precisely doing
>> that. And I think that's what Colin Powell did today."
>>
>> In July of 2002, Kerry told the Democrat Leadership Council,
>> "I agree completely with this Administration's goal of a regime
>> change in Iraq.... Saddam Hussein is a renegade and outlaw who
>> turned his back on the tough conditions of his surrender put in
>> place by the United Nations in 1991."
>>
>> That's "completely," fellow Patriots.
>>
>> A month later in a New York Times op-ed, Kerry asserted, "If Saddam
>> Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's
>> already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement even
>> if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States,
>> a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act."
>>
>> That's even if it's "mostly at the hands of the United States."
>>
>> In September of 2002, a year after 9/11, Kerry said: "It is
>> imperative that we issue an ultimatum to Saddam Hussein, and
>> that would require immediate and full compliance, and if Hussein
>> doesn't comply, the United States must be prepared to go in
>> and...if need be, largely alone remove Saddam Hussein from power.
>> There is also no question that Saddam Hussein continues to pursue
>> weapons of mass destruction, and his success can threaten both our
>> interests in the region and our security at home. ...[Saddam] may
>> even miscalculate and slide these [WMD] off to terrorist groups
>> to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United
>> States. It's the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat."
>>
>> A few days later, he told MSNBC, "The president...always reserves
>> the right to act unilaterally to protect the interests of our
>> country." On 11 October 2002, Kerry voted for the Iraq War
>> Resolution (H.J. Res. 114).
>>
>> That's "unilaterally."
>>
>> In May of 2003, Kerry defended that vote, saying, "I think it
>> was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the
>> President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the
>> fact that we did disarm him." But when Howard Dean turned up the
>> heat with his anti-war message, Kerry began to waffle. Announcing
>> his candidacy, Kerry's support for regime change morphed into,
>> "I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein
>> comply with the resolutions of the United Nations."
>>
>> Notice the head of the pin on which Kerry is now attempting to
>> dance. He's claiming that he only "voted to threaten the use of
>> force." In other words, he's now insisting that he only voted to
>> deliver a hollow threat. Not exactly a profile in courage, eh?
>>
>> As the Demo-primary season approached, Kerry began to hone his
>> newfound opposition to the removal of Saddam: "They rushed to
>> war. They were intent on going to war."
>>
>> When it came time to provide supplemental appropriations for
>> our troops in Iraq, Kerry (who planned to run his campaign on
>> his veteran status) claimed, "I don't think any United States
>> senator is going to abandon our troops and recklessly leave Iraq to
>> whatever follows as a result of simply cutting and running. That's
>> irresponsible.  I don't think anyone in the Congress is going to
>> not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability
>> to be able to defend themselves. We're not going to cut and run
>> and not do the job."
>>
>> But on 17 October 2003, Kerry abandoned our troops, voting
>> against S. 1689, the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for
>> Iraq and Afghanistan Security and Reconstruction. Thus, he put
>> pure political expedience ahead of his obligation to arm and
>> equip our fighting forces -- specifically those fighting forces
>> currently standing in harm's way.
>>
>> In January of this year, when asked if he was "one of the
>> anti-war candidates," Kerry answered firmly, "I am -- yeah." After
>> announcing his running mate in March, he said of John Edwards,
>> "I'm proud to say that John joined me in voting against that
>> $87 billion...."
>>
>> Got that? He's actually "proud" of having stiffed our troops.
>>
>> Last month, when asked by CBS if his vote for the removal of
>> Saddam was a mistake (which, politically, it clearly was), Kerry
>> fumbled his answer: "What -- what -- what I voted for, you --
>> you -- you see, you're playing here. What -- what I voted for
>> was a -- an authority for the president to go to war as a last
>> resort if Saddam Hussein did not disarm and we needed to go to
>> war." When pressed for a direct answer to the question, Kerry
>> responded curtly, "I think I answered your question."
>>
>> When asked why he "voted for the war, but didn't vote for
>> the money to finance the war," Kerry responded, "That's not a
>> flip-flop. That's not a flip-flop."
>>
>> And this week, Kerry claims, "I believe this administration is
>> actually encouraging the recruitment of terrorists. The policies
>> of this administration, I believe and others believe very deeply,
>> have resulted in an increase of animosity and anger focused on
>> the United States of America." (Here we suppose "others" is in
>> reference to the same yet-to-be-identified foreign leaders who
>> Kerry claims support his candidacy.)
>>
>> The reality is, of course, that it's our very existence, and not
>> our actions, that the Jihadis really object to. Kerry's failure
>> to acknowledge this fact is indicative of just how deeply he has
>> delved into the fevered swamp.
>>
>> Last week, greeting Demo-conventioneers with a limp Clintonesque
>> salute, Kerry intoned that he was "reporting for duty." To which
>> we say, it's about time -- because he has been AWOL from Iraq
>> since he voted to invade.
>
>
> Commentator:  Mark Alexander
>
> Forwarded by:  Richard Dillon
> ELEMENOPE Productions
>
> I'll take Alexander's Republican Federalism over Eliot Weinberger's 
> RadLib Legerdemain from here to eternity.
>
> For those who have read this far, here is my astrological prediction 
> on the Fight: On the day of the election, November 2, 2004, the Great 
> Benefic, Jupiter, will be aspecting both candidates charts with utmost 
> drama.  W will see a Jupiter return activating the roots of his life.  
> He will feel grounded and good.  No anxiety.  The consummate moxie the 
> RadLibs so hate will be burning brightly. Kerry, on the other hand, 
> will have reached the culmination of his entire life campaign begun 
> when he entered the Navy during the Vietnam War.  In my view, and in 
> the view of practioners of this craft that I respect, Kerry will be 
> finally seen for what he is:  A bamboozler.  For, that same Jupiter, 
> transiting his MidHeaven, the acme of his public reknown, is, as well, 
> connected to his Neptune, planet of duplicity and illusion and fraud 
> and film. (FILM!)  He and his partners, the Hollywood smiling Shyster 
> and Mop Headed Mother Ketchup, will have been seen for what they are.  
> Their absurd jig will be up.  America will move on, having escaped 
> their grasping frenzy as well as the ever mounting shadow of G. 
> Goldfinger Soros.
>
> If I am wrong on that day, I will admit it here, as well as my 
> profound regret and fear for what the country will become in their 
> seditious hands.  But, hey, Professor Gudding will be crowing along 
> with Weinberger ( - whose poem, _Atlantis_, succeeded.  Frankly, Eliot 
> should read his Zell Miller before going any further with this sort of 
> rant.  But, hey, I only used to run into Paz on Harvard St., Eliot, to 
> his undying credit, was his translator.).
>
> R.D.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:02:32 -0800
>> From: "Chris Stroffolino " <cstroffo at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
>> To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
>>     <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
>> Message-ID: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338 at pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Ah, what an "ear" that fella whineburger's got
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Republicans: A Prose Poem
>> Eliot Weinberger
>>
>> "They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
>> and freedom, and individual liberty."
>> President George W. Bush
>>
>> "I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
>> Vice-President Dick Cheney
>
>
> We are, except by the allies of Eliot Weinberger and Professor Gudding.
>
>
>
> On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his 
> children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon 
> learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood 
> harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda. That's 
> the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the truth, 
> even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>
>
>
>>
>



From elemenope  Fri Aug  6 21:23:55 2004
From: elemenope (ELEMENOPE Productions)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 09:23:55 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poker Game: re:  Re:. (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
In-Reply-To: <200408070613.i776DnYD017190@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200408070613.i776DnYD017190@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100300bd39d9880030@[204.215.201.85]>

Choose your poison.  I ride with W.

R.E.D

P.S.

How we got that colour, I thought we were the Blues, or the Greys (& 
I don't mean Zeta Reticulum brand) - - but the 
Reds?????????????????????????????????

Reminds me of what Lincoln (that Republican) observed viz politics.

----

As to Gancie/Parcelli approach:

>'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
>Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh


No, my understanding is that Gunner Clark fought the good fight in 
Nam - - He and we (by extension those Lone Star Rangers who stand 
with him at this pivot point) were absolutely right to oppose Marxian 
totalitarianism in Vietnam, just as we oppose it in its present 
RadLib academical form today.  The Swift Boat Vets do NOT and never 
will side with General Giap and Ho Chi Minh.  This is an outrageous 
falsehood.

There is no way any commentator could make this claim because as of 
this moment (8/7/04) the Swift Boat book hasn't hit the booksellers. 
And, also, I am in posssession of excusive interviews with Mr. Clark, 
Kerry's gunner on the Swift Boat, that clearly demonstrate absolute 
loyalty to the Yankee mission in Nam.  (I employ "Yankee" proudly.  I 
do not accept the slanderous reversal of meanings the Militant Left 
Poets impose upon American street English.  Nor their rhetorical 
questions which demand of my side that we prove negatives to assuage 
their supposed virtue regarding the world's suffering (re: drug 
trafficing).  Balderdash, Castro is the biggest drug runner in the 
world and he's got the mega billions to prove it.  I don't know what 
G/C roll their weed with, but it sure ain't the Federalist Papers.)

Zut, it is typical of the Rads in their multiple forms that they will 
seize on any move towards virtue in order to ally themselves with the 
cause of Liberty.

Just as they did when they waved their Marxian flags on the streets 
of Baghdad when the American Calvary and Marines liberated Iraq.

<sigh>

R.D.









>
>
>  >
>>Republicans: A Prose Poem
>>Eliot Weinberger
>>
>>"They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
>>and freedom, and individual liberty."
>>President George W. Bush
>>
>>"I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
>>Vice-President Dick Cheney
>
>We are, except by the allies of Eliot Weinberger and Professor Gudding.
>
>
>
>On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his
>children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon
>learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood
>harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda.
>That's the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the
>truth, even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>
>
>
>ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:
>
>>  <The DemKraut Rabid approach to ignorance, as exemplified> by
>>  melo-dramatic gesture of throwing away his three quarters a month
>>  medals as part of a long term, Ivy League dream/scheme to become chief
>>  executive. Pure self-serving vanity. Four months in country, got his
>>  fuckin' nose a little bloodied then out. All for his long range
>>  political advantage. Then he closed down his subcommittee on
>>  Narcotics, Terrorism and International Communications---e.g. money
>>  laundering, just when it was gettin' good implicating dozens of
>>  Iran-contra figures, again in exchange for intelligence backing for
>>  his future candidacy. Screw that. Throwing away medals that today
>>  would fetch $25.00 EACH! on E-Bay shows just how much of an advantage
>>  the kleptocracy has over all us economic niggers.
>
>http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm
>
>'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
>Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh Republican Vets Criticize
>Kleptocrats Kerry, McCain, Bob Kerrey et al:
>Future Kleptocratic Candidates Put On Notice That War Record "Ain't Shit".:
>North Korea And Iran Honor 'Swift Vote Veterans For Truth' With Quiet
>Ceremonies And Military Parades
>
>An Assassinated Press Primary Document
>Translated and edited by YASO ADIODI
>
>http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm
>
>  >
>>
>>  On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his
>>  children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon
>>  learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood
>>  harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda. That's
>>  the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the truth,
>>  even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10
>*****************************************


-- 



From alphavil  Sat Aug  7 10:11:27 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 10:11:27 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poker Game: re:  Re:. (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
In-Reply-To: <a05100300bd39d9880030@[204.215.201.85]>
References: <200408070613.i776DnYD017190@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100300bd39d9880030@[204.215.201.85]>
Message-ID: <4114E30F.8050406@ix.netcom.com>

Yes. W. do ride you, hard.  The only beauty is you don't have to choose 
and further make yourself look like a fool---either way. It's a fait 
accompli.

As for Adiodi, as a number of you already know he has been a houseguest 
of mine for nearly two years now. While he tends to irascibility he does 
possess some good qualities. He is a great fan of Bill O'Reilly and 
Charles Manson though not being fully enculturated he tends to confuse 
the two or at least conflate their ideas. He helped lead a peaceful 
revolution in his own country by distributing 300,000 videotapes of  
members of the 'Party of Lincoln' raping farm animals just as Lincoln 
once had. The tapes were funded by the National Endowment for Democracy, 
the United States Information Agency in conjunction with the Defense 
Intelligence Agency's Division of Gang Bangs For Hearts and Minds as 
part off Operation Vulva Revolution. The entire population gave into 
their communist induced horniness and butchered every animal in the 
country with their newly forged democratic meat swords. From your recent 
responses, I discern a number of you will be moved by this story and 
that is the reason I share Yaso's colorful biography with you. CP


ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:

> Choose your poison.  I ride with W.
>
> R.E.D
>
> P.S.
>
> How we got that colour, I thought we were the Blues, or the Greys (& I 
> don't mean Zeta Reticulum brand) - - but the 
> Reds?????????????????????????????????
>
> Reminds me of what Lincoln (that Republican) observed viz politics.
>
> ----
>
> As to Gancie/Parcelli approach:
>
>> 'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
>> Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh
>
>
>
> No, my understanding is that Gunner Clark fought the good fight in Nam 
> - - He and we (by extension those Lone Star Rangers who stand with him 
> at this pivot point) were absolutely right to oppose Marxian 
> totalitarianism in Vietnam, just as we oppose it in its present RadLib 
> academical form today.  The Swift Boat Vets do NOT and never will side 
> with General Giap and Ho Chi Minh.  This is an outrageous falsehood.
>
> There is no way any commentator could make this claim because as of 
> this moment (8/7/04) the Swift Boat book hasn't hit the booksellers. 
> And, also, I am in posssession of excusive interviews with Mr. Clark, 
> Kerry's gunner on the Swift Boat, that clearly demonstrate absolute 
> loyalty to the Yankee mission in Nam.  (I employ "Yankee" proudly.  I 
> do not accept the slanderous reversal of meanings the Militant Left 
> Poets impose upon American street English.  Nor their rhetorical 
> questions which demand of my side that we prove negatives to assuage 
> their supposed virtue regarding the world's suffering (re: drug 
> trafficing).  Balderdash, Castro is the biggest drug runner in the 
> world and he's got the mega billions to prove it.  I don't know what 
> G/C roll their weed with, but it sure ain't the Federalist Papers.)
>
> Zut, it is typical of the Rads in their multiple forms that they will 
> seize on any move towards virtue in order to ally themselves with the 
> cause of Liberty.
>
> Just as they did when they waved their Marxian flags on the streets of 
> Baghdad when the American Calvary and Marines liberated Iraq.
>
> <sigh>
>
> R.D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>  >
>>
>>> Republicans: A Prose Poem
>>> Eliot Weinberger
>>>
>>> "They hate our friends. They hate our values. They hate democracy
>>> and freedom, and individual liberty."
>>> President George W. Bush
>>>
>>> "I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators."
>>> Vice-President Dick Cheney
>>
>>
>> We are, except by the allies of Eliot Weinberger and Professor Gudding.
>>
>>
>>
>> On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his
>> children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon
>> learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood
>> harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda.
>> That's the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the
>> truth, even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>>
>>
>>
>> ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:
>>
>>>  <The DemKraut Rabid approach to ignorance, as exemplified> by
>>>  melo-dramatic gesture of throwing away his three quarters a month
>>>  medals as part of a long term, Ivy League dream/scheme to become chief
>>>  executive. Pure self-serving vanity. Four months in country, got his
>>>  fuckin' nose a little bloodied then out. All for his long range
>>>  political advantage. Then he closed down his subcommittee on
>>>  Narcotics, Terrorism and International Communications---e.g. money
>>>  laundering, just when it was gettin' good implicating dozens of
>>>  Iran-contra figures, again in exchange for intelligence backing for
>>>  his future candidacy. Screw that. Throwing away medals that today
>>>  would fetch $25.00 EACH! on E-Bay shows just how much of an advantage
>>>  the kleptocracy has over all us economic niggers.
>>
>>
>> http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm
>>
>> 'Swift Boat Veterans For Truth' Denounce Imperialist War In Vietnam:
>> Echoing General Vo Nguyen Giap And Ho Chi Minh Republican Vets Criticize
>> Kleptocrats Kerry, McCain, Bob Kerrey et al:
>> Future Kleptocratic Candidates Put On Notice That War Record "Ain't 
>> Shit".:
>> North Korea And Iran Honor 'Swift Vote Veterans For Truth' With Quiet
>> Ceremonies And Military Parades
>>
>> An Assassinated Press Primary Document
>> Translated and edited by YASO ADIODI
>>
>> http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi37.htm
>>
>>  >
>>
>>>
>>>  On a serious note:  Julia Thorne, Kerry's first wife, mother of his
>>>  children, had a nervous breakdown and divorced this hero, upon
>>>  learning of his Kennedyesque philandering and squiring of Hollywood
>>>  harlots once he got his creds with Hanoi Jane "Traitor" Fonda. That's
>>>  the truth, but he has sealed the divorce records, but it's the truth,
>>>  even though the DemKrat Berglers retort: "So what!"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>> End of New-Poetry Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10
>> *****************************************
>
>
>



From clitophon  Sat Aug  7 15:14:56 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 12:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <005b01c470d3$3a778be0$824e7ad5@FrodoBaggins>
Message-ID: <20040807191456.422.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>

interestingly I met a German girl today who spoke
English with a perfect Manchester accent since she had
been married to a Mancunian for some time although she
said the marriage had finished. She was glad to leave
Germany because she felt the people to be impolite and
German society to be over-formalised and bound up with
rules. She said that people needed qualifications for
ordinary jobs and that this was not the case in the
UK.  Yes, this is true, in the UK qualifications are
very often a problem in employment and one has to
conceal them to get on.  The reverse is true in
Germany which is why I wanted to live here.  I
appreciate her thoughts and think there is substance
in them.  The Germans I've met just can't understand
my sense of humour and can't follow the often
scatalogical thought flow that I pursue.  They often
seem to think in a very rigid way.  Of course not all
Germans are like this, certainly their physicists
(Planck, Einstein etc) were very creative minds and
undoubtedly eccentric.  (recent evidence suggests that
Einstein had Ashperger's syndrome, a mind form of
autism.  Who knows what kind of mind thinks up a
fundamental shift in our way of looking at the
Universe.  Of course all kinds of officals need to
think this is an illness with a positive by-product
not someone who is just pleasantly different.  I've no
doubt that Einstein could exhibit great kindness
although he was a terrible womaniser, a thing I hardly
find fault in since to do so would be like the pot
calling the kettle black.) 
Today, I went to the Br?han Museum, a Museum of early
20th century German art, porcelain and furniture,
simply amazing.  The Sammlung Berggruen next door, is
mainly concerned with works by Picasso and Klee and
the Film Museum in Potzdamer Platz, is pretty good but
not as good as the Museum of the Moving Image in
London (now defunct). The Germans thought of cinema as
a science in the early years and film-makers would
have dressed like doctors or surgeons.  It was only in
Hollywood that cinema was regarded from the beginning
as an entertainment industry.  Further, Murnau et al
regarded their work as the scientific recording or
reality, the thought that objective reality as
recorded via photography - and the subsequent creation
of the image - can be bent and twisted, interpreted
and mis-interpreted, of course, wouldn?t have occured
to them.  You might remember the Warren Beatty film,
The Parallex View.  The difference between what you
see and what you get, a problem for automatic cameras
but not for single lense reflex cameras which
eliminate this effect.  In robustly ideological terms,
the interpretation of events offered to the public
might be different from what actually happened except
if you argue in a Post-Modern direction, that
?truth?is only a product of the observer - this brings
in relativity theory - and therefore not truth at all
but opinion even when backed up by the hardest
evidence (because even the hardest evidence can be
re-viewed in the light of new philosophical\scientific
investigations).
PM


		
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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From elemenope  Sat Aug  7 05:53:10 2004
From: elemenope (ELEMENOPE Productions)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:53:10 +0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Erratum: 1. Poker Game: re: Re:. (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
 (ELEMENOPE Productions)
In-Reply-To: <200408071600.i77G03YD018458@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
References: <200408071600.i77G03YD018458@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100302bd3a4fa58a5f@[204.215.201.81]>

Among the errors I as a "Republican Home Schooler" have made in this 
lifetime is to misspell, "Cavalry."

>At 05:21 PM +0800 8/7/04, ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:
>>Just as they did when they waved their Marxian flags on the streets
>>of Baghdad when the American Calvary and Marines liberated Iraq.

Another error: Kerry's Swift Boat gunner was Steve Gardner. (I hope I 
have his last name spelled correctly.)  So, the following paragraph 
should read:

>No, my understanding is that Gunner Gardner fought the good fight in
>Nam - - He and we (by extension those Lone Star Rangers who stand
>with him at this pivot point) were absolutely right to oppose Marxian
>totalitarianism in Vietnam, just as we oppose it in its present
>RadLib academical form today.  The Swift Boat Vets do NOT and never
>will side with General Giap and Ho Chi Minh.  This is an outrageous
falsehood.

Viz:

>As for Adiodi, as a number of you already know he has been a houseguest
>of mine for nearly two years now. While he tends to irascibility he does
>possess some good qualities. He is a great fan of Bill O'Reilly and
>Charles Manson though not being fully enculturated he tends to confuse
>			- etc. -
>part off Operation Vulva Revolution. The entire population gave into
>their communist induced horniness and butchered every animal in the
>                         - etc. -


Under the spell of the authority invested in me by the Inventor of 
the UptKayCuptKay technique, I adjudge the foregoing Adiodi farrago 
as a failed attempt to attain, "The Third Mind."  It may not even 
make the Dornian category of, "Mixed Fodder." since it is 
indigestable.  But, hey, whatever, we live in a dark time.

RED






-- 



From barry.spacks  Sun Aug  8 12:27:46 2004
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 09:27:46 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: dangerous spittle
In-Reply-To: <200408081600.i78G03YC021365@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040808092332.00b34ba8@incoming.verizon.net>

At 12:00 PM 8/8/2004 -0400, RED wrote:
             we live in a dark time.

to muzzle a rabid dog one needs
a muzzle, a net...and a fleet-footed hero


-------------- next part --------------
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From alphavil  Sun Aug  8 12:26:28 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 12:26:28 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Erratum: 1. Poker Game: re: Re:.
	(R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) (ELEMENOPE Productions)
In-Reply-To: <a05100302bd3a4fa58a5f@[204.215.201.81]>
References: <200408071600.i77G03YD018458@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
	<a05100302bd3a4fa58a5f@[204.215.201.81]>
Message-ID: <41165434.3040804@ix.netcom.com>

<But, hey, whatever, we live in a dark time.>

Back at the mirror, eh.

ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:

> Among the errors I as a "Republican Home Schooler" have made in this 
> lifetime is to misspell, "Cavalry."
>
>> At 05:21 PM +0800 8/7/04, ELEMENOPE Productions wrote:
>>
>>> Just as they did when they waved their Marxian flags on the streets
>>> of Baghdad when the American Calvary and Marines liberated Iraq.
>>
>
> Another error: Kerry's Swift Boat gunner was Steve Gardner. (I hope I 
> have his last name spelled correctly.)  So, the following paragraph 
> should read:
>
>> No, my understanding is that Gunner Gardner fought the good fight in
>> Nam - - He and we (by extension those Lone Star Rangers who stand
>> with him at this pivot point) were absolutely right to oppose Marxian
>> totalitarianism in Vietnam, just as we oppose it in its present
>> RadLib academical form today.  The Swift Boat Vets do NOT and never
>> will side with General Giap and Ho Chi Minh.  This is an outrageous
>
> falsehood.
>
> Viz:
>
>> As for Adiodi, as a number of you already know he has been a houseguest
>> of mine for nearly two years now. While he tends to irascibility he does
>> possess some good qualities. He is a great fan of Bill O'Reilly and
>> Charles Manson though not being fully enculturated he tends to confuse
>>             - etc. -
>> part off Operation Vulva Revolution. The entire population gave into
>> their communist induced horniness and butchered every animal in the
>>                         - etc. -
>
>
>
> Under the spell of the authority invested in me by the Inventor of the 
> UptKayCuptKay technique, I adjudge the foregoing Adiodi farrago as a 
> failed attempt to attain, "The Third Mind."  It may not even make the 
> Dornian category of, "Mixed Fodder." since it is indigestable.  But, 
> hey, whatever, we live in a dark time.
>
> RED
>
>
>
>
>
>



From alphavil  Sun Aug  8 12:28:52 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 12:28:52 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: dangerous spittle
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040808092332.00b34ba8@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040808092332.00b34ba8@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <411654C4.8070909@ix.netcom.com>

to muzzle a rabid dog one needs
a muzzle, a net...and a fleet-footed hero.
we tried, and he was Greek!
but, alas, it was Spiro

Barry Spacks wrote:

> At 12:00 PM 8/8/2004 -0400, RED wrote:
>             we live in a dark time.
>
> to muzzle a rabid dog one needs
> a muzzle, a net...and a fleet-footed hero


>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>  
>



From clitophon  Sun Aug  8 14:07:31 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:07:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz
In-Reply-To: <411654C4.8070909@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040808180731.40591.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm in Berlin.  Right now I'm at Potsdamer Platz, once
Europe?s Time Square.  For a long time it declined
until the Wende in 1989.  Since then it has been
rebuilt with some works of architectural genius.  At
my window now are some remarkable skyscrapers and all
the glass that any errant bomber could want.  There
are lots of cinemas here and a film museum which gives
us a clue as to the nature of this place.  It is the
hub of cosmopolitan, of internationalism and
international communication in Europe.

I think Nietzsche is one of the people who might have
prevented the Nazi Movement.   Nazism grew out of
centuries of Christian sponsored anti-semitism in
Europe.  It especially eminated from the Catholic
church, an institution that hated Nietzsche for his
anti-christian, yet positive and progressive theories.
 I think Nietzsche has been used as a scapegoat.  The
various complex messages of his work go far beyond
Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
from across the political spectrum.  He has a
universalism that was always going to be displaced in
some way and an obvious propensity to be
mis-understood as every great thinker is.  By setting
up N as a scapegoat, most of the justified anger could
be directed his way and not against the set up of
religious charlatans and mystifiers.

Today I went to Babelsburg, the German Hollywood until
the destruction of Berlin in 1945.  This theme park is
really for kiddies and the trips on a U Boat and the
set piece from Mad Max are fun to be involved in, if
not just for the mass enjoyment, clapping and
laughable stunts.  I talked to the artist there about
exhibiting in Berlin, she seemed to think I'd have a
chance.  Basicallly she demonstrates to people how art
functions in regard to film.  As well as this there
are sections on film & architecture, a quite
straightforward projection from the architecture of
houses and interiors and most of the stuff I saw at
M?s house last summer.  The Caligari facade is great
fun and the facade from The Pianist is good,
especially when you knock against it with a ringing
hollowness.  I thought if I pushed hard enough the
facade would fall over just like in the Buster Keaton
films.
PM


		
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From mandolin  Sun Aug  8 15:44:16 2004
From: mandolin (Michael Snider)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:44:16 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <20040807191456.422.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040807191456.422.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <555691CC-E973-11D8-9A45-000393C29586@mac.com>


On Aug 7, 2004, at 3:14 PM, Paul Murphy wrote:

> if you argue in a Post-Modern direction, that
> ?truth?is only a product of the observer - this brings
> in relativity theory - and therefore not truth at all
> but opinion even when backed up by the hardest
> evidence (because even the hardest evidence can be
> re-viewed in the light of new philosophical\scientific
> investigations).

Paul, I'm enjoying your  speculations and travel posts, but you should 
be aware  that "'truth' is only a product of the observer" is a pretty 
bizarre misreading of modern physics. Relativity theory shows how 
observers in different inertial frames can come to identical 
conclusions about their movements relative to each other and to any 
arbitrary inertial system. Even the often-cited Heisenberg Uncertainty 
Principle (look here:  
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/208/jan27/hup.html ) merely means that 
certain measurements interfere with one another: for instance, we can 
make arbitrarily precise measurements of the location of an object at 
quantum scales, but in doing so we interfere with its momentum, and 
vice versa. As the web page notes, this "notion has interesting 
consequences for nuclear fusion in stars," but has essentially zero 
effect on, say, evolutionary theory, or why your car works or doesn't, 
or whether you should brush your teeth before a date. Similarly, 
Godel's Incompleteness Theorem doesn't say that we can't prove things 
to be true or false in mathematics, only that, in any given formal 
system powerful enough to be interesting, there will be true statements 
which cannot be proven to be true  and false statements which cannot be 
proven to be false using the tools available in that system.

Daniel Dennett, in his essay on "Postmodernism and Truth" (look here: 
http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=13 ) quotes E. 
O. Wilson from the March 1998 Atlantic Monthly:  "Scientists, held 
responsible for what they say, have not found postmodernism useful." 
  




From clitophon  Sun Aug  8 16:56:42 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 13:56:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <555691CC-E973-11D8-9A45-000393C29586@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20040808205642.11039.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com>

my mail wasn?t meant to be very philosophically
precise or precise in terms of physics either.  I?m
sure there are immense adjustments and delicate
sidelit observations on my rather elephantine
statements.  I?m just engaged in a little travel
writing.  Thanks anyway for your mail.  I?ll wade
through those sites in due time.
--- Michael Snider <mandolin at mac.com> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 7, 2004, at 3:14 PM, Paul Murphy wrote:
> 
> > if you argue in a Post-Modern direction, that
> > ?truth?is only a product of the observer - this
> brings
> > in relativity theory - and therefore not truth at
> all
> > but opinion even when backed up by the hardest
> > evidence (because even the hardest evidence can be
> > re-viewed in the light of new
> philosophical\scientific
> > investigations).
> 
> Paul, I'm enjoying your  speculations and travel
> posts, but you should 
> be aware  that "'truth' is only a product of the
> observer" is a pretty 
> bizarre misreading of modern physics. Relativity
> theory shows how 
> observers in different inertial frames can come to
> identical 
> conclusions about their movements relative to each
> other and to any 
> arbitrary inertial system. Even the often-cited
> Heisenberg Uncertainty 
> Principle (look here:  
> http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/208/jan27/hup.html
> ) merely means that 
> certain measurements interfere with one another: for
> instance, we can 
> make arbitrarily precise measurements of the
> location of an object at 
> quantum scales, but in doing so we interfere with
> its momentum, and 
> vice versa. As the web page notes, this "notion has
> interesting 
> consequences for nuclear fusion in stars," but has
> essentially zero 
> effect on, say, evolutionary theory, or why your car
> works or doesn't, 
> or whether you should brush your teeth before a
> date. Similarly, 
> Godel's Incompleteness Theorem doesn't say that we
> can't prove things 
> to be true or false in mathematics, only that, in
> any given formal 
> system powerful enough to be interesting, there will
> be true statements 
> which cannot be proven to be true  and false
> statements which cannot be 
> proven to be false using the tools available in that
> system.
> 
> Daniel Dennett, in his essay on "Postmodernism and
> Truth" (look here: 
>
http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=13
> ) quotes E. 
> O. Wilson from the March 1998 Atlantic Monthly: 
> "Scientists, held 
> responsible for what they say, have not found
> postmodernism useful." 
>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From teapeasea  Sun Aug  8 20:45:04 2004
From: teapeasea (Timothy Cole)
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:45:04 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz
In-Reply-To: <20040808180731.40591.qmail@web40414.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200408090043.i790hfYB022744@wiz.cath.vt.edu>

Paul -
I just want to say I flat out envy you. 

I lived in Berlin (West) during the '70's and visited again in the '80's,
but have not been able to make it back since the "Wende". Some day.

Potsdamer Platz in those days was non-existent since the Wall ran virtually
right through it. It was one of the most heart-breaking places to behold at
that time, especially since it was then really unthinkable that the Wall
would come crashing down the way it did, when it did. I suppose
metaphorically it was appropriate that the whole agony of Germany in the
20th century should be so visible at the place that had once been the hub of
the capital. 

I'm not sure what I'd make of the site's post-reunification remake, but at
least the city has begun to come out of the time-warp in which it was stuck
for 40 years. 

I also think you are pretty much on the money about Nietzsche. Given a good
understanding of his work and a good understanding of the ideology and
social dynamics of National Socialism, it is absurd to hold him up as a
progenitor of the movement. Just, I might add, as it is absurd to hold Marx
up as a progenitor of Stalin - if, that is, one takes the trouble to dig
down to a deeper understanding of both.

Happy trails,

Tim Cole



-----Original Message-----
From: new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu
[mailto:new-poetry-bounces at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Murphy
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:08 PM
To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz

I'm in Berlin.  Right now I'm at Potsdamer Platz, once
Europe4s Time Square.  For a long time it declined
until the Wende in 1989.  Since then it has been
rebuilt with some works of architectural genius.  At
my window now are some remarkable skyscrapers and all
the glass that any errant bomber could want.  There
are lots of cinemas here and a film museum which gives
us a clue as to the nature of this place.  It is the
hub of cosmopolitan, of internationalism and
international communication in Europe.

I think Nietzsche is one of the people who might have
prevented the Nazi Movement.   Nazism grew out of
centuries of Christian sponsored anti-semitism in
Europe.  It especially eminated from the Catholic
church, an institution that hated Nietzsche for his
anti-christian, yet positive and progressive theories.
 I think Nietzsche has been used as a scapegoat.  The
various complex messages of his work go far beyond
Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
from across the political spectrum.  He has a
universalism that was always going to be displaced in
some way and an obvious propensity to be
mis-understood as every great thinker is.  By setting
up N as a scapegoat, most of the justified anger could
be directed his way and not against the set up of
religious charlatans and mystifiers.

Today I went to Babelsburg, the German Hollywood until
the destruction of Berlin in 1945.  This theme park is
really for kiddies and the trips on a U Boat and the
set piece from Mad Max are fun to be involved in, if
not just for the mass enjoyment, clapping and
laughable stunts.  I talked to the artist there about
exhibiting in Berlin, she seemed to think I'd have a
chance.  Basicallly she demonstrates to people how art
functions in regard to film.  As well as this there
are sections on film & architecture, a quite
straightforward projection from the architecture of
houses and interiors and most of the stuff I saw at
M4s house last summer.  The Caligari facade is great
fun and the facade from The Pianist is good,
especially when you knock against it with a ringing
hollowness.  I thought if I pushed hard enough the
facade would fall over just like in the Buster Keaton
films.
PM


		
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Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
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From marcus  Mon Aug  9 07:41:16 2004
From: marcus (Marcus Bales)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 07:41:16 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <20040807191456.422.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <005b01c470d3$3a778be0$824e7ad5@FrodoBaggins>
Message-ID: <41172A9C.78.1A5338@localhost>

On 7 Aug 2004 at 12:14, Paul Murphy wrote:
> ... recent evidence suggests that
> Einstein had Ashperger's syndrome, a mind form of
> autism....<

"Asperger's Syndrome" (http://www.autism.org/asperger.html) is 
spelled without the "h"; and "mild" is spelled without the "n".

Marcus







From clitophon  Mon Aug  9 09:38:47 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:38:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 3
In-Reply-To: <41172A9C.78.1A5338@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040809133847.80750.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>

so sufferers from asperger?s syndrom are higher
functioning people who lack the correct genes to enter
the ranks of the ruling classes and are thereby
marginalised into the professions where their ?ddity?
is easily neutralised and made safe.  Forgive the few
spelling mistakes, I have little time to make these
reports in and internet is expensive too.
Is mind a parapraxes?  
--- Marcus Bales <marcus at designerglass.com> wrote:

> On 7 Aug 2004 at 12:14, Paul Murphy wrote:
> > ... recent evidence suggests that
> > Einstein had Ashperger's syndrome, a mind form of
> > autism....<
> 
> "Asperger's Syndrome"
> (http://www.autism.org/asperger.html) is 
> spelled without the "h"; and "mild" is spelled
> without the "n".
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
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From halvard  Mon Aug  9 09:46:32 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:46:32 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)
Message-ID: <f160a121040809064610eafeab@mail.gmail.com>

The Evening of the Mind

Now comes the evening of the mind.
Here are the fireflies twitching in the blood;
Here is the shadow moving down the page
Where you sit reading by the garden wall.
Now the dwarf peach trees, nailed to their trellises,
Shudder and droop. Your know their voices now,
Faintly the martyred peaches crying out
Your name, the name nobody knows but you.
It is the aura and the coming on.
It is the thing descending, circling, here.
And now it puts a claw out and you take it.
Thankfully in your lap you take it, so.

You said you would not go away again,
You did not want to go away -- and yet,
It is as if you stood out on the dock
Watching a little boat drift out
Beyond the sawgrass shallows, the dead fish ...
And you were in it, skimming past old snags,
Beyond, beyond, under a brazen sky
As soundless as a gong before it's struck --
Suspended how? -- and now they strike it, now
The ether dream of five-years-old repeats, repeats,
And you must wake again to your own blood
And empty spaces in the throat.

            Donald Justice,
            fr. *Night Light*, University Press of New England, 1965


--
Hal

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard

-- 
Hal                

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard



From DICK  Mon Aug  9 09:51:27 2004
From: DICK (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 04 09:51:27 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] nothing in particular
Message-ID: <200408091351.i79DplmS006336@d01av03.pok.ibm.com>

>>Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
>>ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
>>he.  N influenced so many art movements and people

Another example of the recent change in the rules of
syntax, viz., that the conjunction "and" is followed by
the nominative of the pronoun, regardless of any other
context.

Richard



From clitophon  Mon Aug  9 09:59:04 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:59:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Pergamon 4
In-Reply-To: <20040809133847.80750.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040809135904.98921.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com>

 Dear Heike,
> Freud is rather dated now but he gives us
indications
> about the germination of his philosophy of
psychoanalysis and any
> putative 'science of the mind'.  Because the mind
(or
> consciousness) is not something we can easily lay
our
> hands on, understanding it is much harder than
> understanding the physiology of the body.  It could
be
> said that neurosis is very like a sprained ankle or
> psychosis is like having no legs, but really
so-called
> 'mental illness' does not follow the same dialectic
of
> symptom - diagnosis - cure as a physical illness
does.
>  Very simply because psychosis is incurable and
often
> untreatable.  Neurosis is something much less
serious
> and often can be cleared up without any form of
> medicine.  (an example of neurosis is obsessive
> compulsive disorder or OCD.  do you know it?)  The
> Oedipus Complex is very much concerned with mans'
> mental genesis and I fear that you would be best to
> turn to Sophocles, Freud and Lacan for more
> information.  In these original texts you will find
> more knowledge but also some belief and opinion on
the
> matter.  Further reading might be 'Totem and Taboo'
by
> Sigmund Freud for more information on kinship
systems
> but also read about Margaret Mead.  Try to select
> books from my reading lists to uncover more.  Have
you
> read TS Eliot?
> best wishes,
> Paul Murphy



	
		
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From clitophon  Mon Aug  9 10:02:49 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 07:02:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] nothing in particular
In-Reply-To: <200408091351.i79DplmS006336@d01av03.pok.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <20040809140249.90879.qmail@web40407.mail.yahoo.com>

I think this syntactical shift is influenced by the
way the Germans speak English.  I would normally say -
N influenced so many art movements, people

I?ve also noticed that the Germans seem to like a
different period Picasso, choosing the mid-late
Picasso rather than the early period of the Blue or
Pink periods.  The early Picasso is more on view in
Paris or Barcelona.  Of course, generally speaking,
P?s early work is less intellectually complex and more
emotive.
 
--- DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com wrote:

> >>Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
> >>ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N
> and
> >>he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
> 
> Another example of the recent change in the rules of
> syntax, viz., that the conjunction "and" is followed
> by
> the nominative of the pronoun, regardless of any
> other
> context.
> 
> Richard
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
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From rwilsnac  Mon Aug  9 10:28:52 2004
From: rwilsnac (Richard Wilsnack)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 09:28:52 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)
In-Reply-To: <f160a121040809064610eafeab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040809092304.0104def0@medicine.nodak.edu>

Sorry to indulge in what some might view as sentimentality, but this news 
adds another dose of dreariness to a cold, rainy day. When I was newly 
middle-aged, I encountered by luck the best poem I have yet read about 
middle-aged middle-class USAnian men (about whom there are remarkably few 
good poems). In memoriam:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Men at forty
Learn to close softly
The doors to rooms they will not be
Coming back to.

At rest on a stair landing,
They feel it
Moving beneath them now like the deck of a ship,
Though the swell is gentle.

And deep in mirrors
They rediscover
The face of the boy as he practices tying
His father's tie there in secret

And the face of that father,
Still warm with the mystery of lather.
They are more fathers than sons themselves now.
Something is filling them, something

That is like the twilight sound
Of the crickets, immense,
Filling the woods at the foot of the slope
Behind their mortgaged houses

         Donald Justice

-------------------------------------

Richard W. Wilsnack
rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu




From gmguddi  Mon Aug  9 11:30:26 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:30:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Announcing COMBO 13 and our first COMBO BOOK - by K.
 Silem Mohammad
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040809102824.03058728@mail.ilstu.edu>

[Mike Magee asked me to forward this to lists. If he's already done so, 
please forgive the overlap. I've been away].

***********************
Hello everyone!

I have two very gratifying announcements to make: at long last I've published
COMBO 13 as well as our first COMBO BOOK, K. Silem Mohammad's  A THOUSAND
DEVILS.

COMBO 13 features poems by

Amy King, David Hadbawnik, Rodney Koeneke, Catherine Meng, Ray DiPalma, Thom
Donovan, Kyle Schlesinger, Katie Degentesh, Chris Canavale, Brandon Downing,
Kristen Gallagher, Stephanie Young and Rodrigo Toscano

as well as Phil Metres's interview with Jerome and Diane Rothenberg

and a selection from our second COMBO BOOK (forthcoming in the Fall)
ALSO WITH MY THROAT I SHALL SWALLOW TEN THOUSAND SWORDS: ARAKI YASUSADA'S
LETTERS IN ENGLISH, ed. Kent Johnson and Javier Alvarez.

COMBO is 60 pages, saddle-stiched w/ glossy cardstock cover w/ original
artwork.

4-issue subscriptions to COMBO are $12.00

A Lifetime subscription (which includes all available back issues) is $50.00

And our new "Full Lifetime Subscription" -- $100.00 -- entitles you to all past
and future issues of the magazine and all past and future Combo Books.  This is
a phenomenal deal!

As for our first book, it's a doozy!

K. Silem Mohammad's A THOUSAND DEVILS is a beautiful trade paperback of 104
pages with a kick ass cover featuring swarming ants and many many fantastic
poems.  The purchase price is $12.00.  Here are the words of two wonderful
poets on Mohammad's book:

*******************
Imagine Olivier portraying Yosemite Sam as a Bedouin, "May a thousand devils
take 'em!", which I'm told is a curse as PG Obsolete as Pantagruel yelling
"Sacre Bleu!"  However, be warned as each of Mr Mohammad's poems provides a
new form of hotfoot for the info-damned at the nostalgia-plex; read for
example "The New South."  Hear within devils pass through a participle
accelerator as the sound of nouns bleeds away the din to reveal Pandemonium.

--Michael Gizzi

If an ancient had an epileptic seizure, he was possessed by a
thousand devils.  When he regained consciousness, the devils were
driven out by a healer. The devils had to go somewhere. In this case
they have gone into the poems. Upon reading this book, my brain
seemed to be scorched with a hissing flame of fire. a million nerves
were open and screaming in agony, curling hooks into my flesh. I went
to bed but could not sleep. The words were like flying birds, the
lines like humming bees. Pandemonium! The poems roar or whisper
balefully from the sand or from the wind, or stir unseen in the
coiling silence; or fall from the heavens like  crushing incubi. They
yawn like a sudden pit before the eye of the reader. I see in the
poems the traces of a simple honest heart; and in his large, deep
eyes, fiery black and bold, there seem tokens of a spirit that would
dare a thousand devils (and the hairy creature clinging to his
throat) to scream with infernal delight at the sound and sight of
these verses' awful agony and hopeless despair. With their dismal
fooleries they transform our worthless days and disentangle a
thousand evils, and they are indeed, incredible.

--Nada Gordon
*************************

We hope to be up and available at Small Press Distribution soon but for now all
COMBO publications can be purchased with cash or check mailed to

Michael Magee
Combo
6 Brookwood Ln.
Cumberland, RI 02864

All inquiries should be addressed to combo1 at cox.net


Come and get em!

Michael Magee
www.combopoetry.com






From anny.ballardini  Mon Aug  9 15:16:36 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:16:36 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)
References: <f160a121040809064610eafeab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009b01c47e45$64129880$0c1c2dd5@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Thank you for this poem Hal,

that passage of the peaches crying out
_Your name, the name nobody knows but you._
got stuck in my throat somehow.

Anny

From: "Halvard Johnson" <halvard at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" Sent: Monday, August 09,
2004 3:46 PM


> The Evening of the Mind
>
> Now comes the evening of the mind.
> Here are the fireflies twitching in the blood;
> Here is the shadow moving down the page
> Where you sit reading by the garden wall.
> Now the dwarf peach trees, nailed to their trellises,
> Shudder and droop. Your know their voices now,
> Faintly the martyred peaches crying out
> Your name, the name nobody knows but you.
> It is the aura and the coming on.
> It is the thing descending, circling, here.
> And now it puts a claw out and you take it.
> Thankfully in your lap you take it, so.
>
> You said you would not go away again,
> You did not want to go away -- and yet,
> It is as if you stood out on the dock
> Watching a little boat drift out
> Beyond the sawgrass shallows, the dead fish ...
> And you were in it, skimming past old snags,
> Beyond, beyond, under a brazen sky
> As soundless as a gong before it's struck --
> Suspended how? -- and now they strike it, now
> The ether dream of five-years-old repeats, repeats,
> And you must wake again to your own blood
> And empty spaces in the throat.
>
>             Donald Justice,
>             fr. *Night Light*, University Press of New England, 1965
>
>
> --
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
>
> -- 
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From adead_poet  Mon Aug  9 17:05:49 2004
From: adead_poet (Adead)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:05:49 -0600
Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject)
Message-ID: <aquvjlvqkfobfubtgvf@wiz.cath.vt.edu>

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From JforJames  Mon Aug  9 16:52:51 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:52:51 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz
Message-ID: <1e4.273d0d81.2e493e23@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/8/2004 2:08:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
clitophon at yahoo.com writes:
I think Nietzsche is one of the people who might have
prevented the Nazi Movement.   Nazism grew out of
centuries of Christian sponsored anti-semitism in
Europe.  It especially eminated from the Catholic
church, an institution that hated Nietzsche for his
anti-christian, yet positive and progressive theories.
I think Nietzsche has been used as a scapegoat.  The
various complex messages of his work go far beyond
Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
from across the political spectrum.  He has a
universalism that was always going to be displaced in
some way and an obvious propensity to be
mis-understood as every great thinker is.  By setting
up N as a scapegoat, most of the justified anger could
be directed his way and not against the set up of
religious charlatans and mystifiers.
Didn't Nietzche have a falling out with his sister over
the anti-Semitism he saw arise in her after she married
a Jew hater?...I think she got control over his manuscripts
and papers after he went mad/died and she may have 'crafted'
his writings (often contradictory) or selectively published
tracts that fell in line with Fascist/Nationalist sentiments
arising in post-WWI Germany.
Finnegan 
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From JforJames  Mon Aug  9 17:10:03 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:10:03 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Justice obit
Message-ID: <1e9.2717762a.2e49422b@aol.com>

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/9346930.htm?1c

Writer won Pulitzer Prize for his poetry
 
BY KATHLEEN FORDYCE
Poet and Pulitzer Prize winner Donald Justice, a Miami native and author of 
more than 10 books, died Friday from pneumonia at a nursing home in Iowa. He 
was 78.
 
Justice not only wrote poetry, he traveled the country teaching his art at 
colleges and universities, including the University of Miami.
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From JforJames  Mon Aug  9 17:29:10 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:29:10 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] soldier's stories & poems
Message-ID: <6.30086755.2e4946a6@aol.com>

Trying to Make the Pen as Mighty as the Sword

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/books/04BOOK.html

The poet Andrew Hudgins teaching marines at Camp Lejeune in Jacksonville, N.C.
 
By BRUCE WEBER
 
Published: August 4, 2004
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Aug  9 17:31:47 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:31:47 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] soldier's stories & poems
Message-ID: <7a.5e3a9409.2e494743@cs.com>

The fourth edition of my Poetry: A Pocket Anthology has just arrived from the 
printer.  You can check it out at

http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0321244966,00.html
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From Rsgwynn1  Mon Aug  9 17:44:44 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:44:44 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Oops
Message-ID: <12c.489864a2.2e494a4c@cs.com>

Meant to put in a new header for this one:

The fourth edition of my Poetry: A Pocket Anthology has just arrived from the 
printer. You can check it out at

http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0321244966,00.html 
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From alphavil  Mon Aug  9 19:06:53 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 19:06:53 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Assassinated Press: From Street Terror To State Terror
In-Reply-To: <1e4.273d0d81.2e493e23@aol.com>
References: <1e4.273d0d81.2e493e23@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4118038D.3070308@ix.netcom.com>

 From Street Terror To State Terror:
Today Revolution, Tomorrow the United States Of Al Qaeda:
Al Qaeda, Following The Path Of The American Founding Fathers:
Recognizing The Once And Future Riches

By BUBBLES KILLENSPEW
The Assassinated Press
August 8, 2004







From JforJames  Tue Aug 10 08:57:58 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:57:58 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry: A Pocket Anthology 
Message-ID: <45.12b95688.2e4a2056@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/9/2004 5:45:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com 
writes:

> The fourth edition of my Poetry: A Pocket Anthology has just arrived from 
> the printer. You can check it out at
> 
> http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0321244966,00.html 
> 

Sam,
That sounds very successful...how many would that be 
out there in the world if it sells out of 4 printings?
Finnegan
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From Rsgwynn1  Tue Aug 10 09:09:03 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:09:03 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry: A Pocket Anthology 
Message-ID: <d8.1171506f.2e4a22ef@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/10/2004 7:58:53 AM Central Daylight Time, 
JforJames at aol.com writes: 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 8/9/2004 5:45:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes:
> 
> >> The fourth edition of my Poetry: A Pocket Anthology has just arrived from 
>> the printer. You can check it out at
>> 
>> http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/0,1144,0321244966,00.html 
>> 
>> 
> 
> Sam,
> That sounds very successful...how many would that be 
> out there in the world if it sells out of 4 printings?
> Finnegan
> 
Good question.  I figure around 25,000 have currently been used of the first 
three editions.
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From clitophon  Wed Aug 11 04:52:54 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Babelburg\Potsdamer Platz
In-Reply-To: <1e4.273d0d81.2e493e23@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20040811085254.66367.qmail@web40424.mail.yahoo.com>

Now we?re trying to find out who it was exactly
created the Nazi Nietzsche myth.  Its true that
Mussolini presented Hitler with N?s collected volumes
at a meeting on the Brenner Pass just after H came to
power.  Although intellectually aware it is probable
that Hitler couldn?t actually have read N since he
needed help with his German grammar when in gaol in
1923.  This leads onto the fundamental error of the
Hitler myth.  That H was a cunning, streetwise
politician who subverted democracy to establish
dictatorship.  In fact, I think from this that it
seems that H was a puppet, an able rabble rouser but
nothing more.   The absence of a written order re the
Holocaust also seems to substantiate this, that H was
in the dark about the Holocaust simply because the
Nazi heirarchy didn?t think very much of his opinion.
He was only nominally F?hrer  but everyone high up in
the party realised him to be an idiot.  
What do you think?
--- JforJames at aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/8/2004 2:08:04 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, 
> clitophon at yahoo.com writes:
> I think Nietzsche is one of the people who might
> have
> prevented the Nazi Movement.   Nazism grew out of
> centuries of Christian sponsored anti-semitism in
> Europe.  It especially eminated from the Catholic
> church, an institution that hated Nietzsche for his
> anti-christian, yet positive and progressive
> theories.
> I think Nietzsche has been used as a scapegoat.  The
> various complex messages of his work go far beyond
> Nazism and anyone with a cursory knowledge of the
> ideas of Hitler will see no connection between N and
> he.  N influenced so many art movements and people
> from across the political spectrum.  He has a
> universalism that was always going to be displaced
> in
> some way and an obvious propensity to be
> mis-understood as every great thinker is.  By
> setting
> up N as a scapegoat, most of the justified anger
> could
> be directed his way and not against the set up of
> religious charlatans and mystifiers.
> Didn't Nietzche have a falling out with his sister
> over
> the anti-Semitism he saw arise in her after she
> married
> a Jew hater?...I think she got control over his
> manuscripts
> and papers after he went mad/died and she may have
> 'crafted'
> his writings (often contradictory) or selectively
> published
> tracts that fell in line with Fascist/Nationalist
> sentiments
> arising in post-WWI Germany.
> Finnegan 
> > _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From anny.ballardini  Wed Aug 11 06:20:31 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:20:31 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] From today's poemhunter.com
Message-ID: <011901c47f8c$d52d20b0$f51c2dd5@yourpk9x5fuc06>

"I Thought of You" 

I thought of you and how you love this beauty, 
And walking up the long beach all alone 
I heard the waves breaking in measured thunder 
As you and I once heard their monotone. 

Around me were the echoing dunes, beyond me 
The cold and sparkling silver of the sea -- 
We two will pass through death and ages lengthen 
Before you hear that sound again with me. 

Sarah Teasdale 

A little breeze from the sea,
Anny
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From wjbat  Wed Aug 11 07:35:59 2004
From: wjbat (Wendy Battin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 07:35:59 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others, Carl Phillips
Message-ID: <9E2C0B36-EB8A-11D8-AD4B-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu>

Sudden Scattering of Leaves, All Gold

Sir,
the flies assemble
like so many parts of a working argument
around what proves it.  No sign, not yet,
of the rains you spoke of. --Will they come,
ever?
            It's day, mostly.  The light
extends like truth, the truth like
a hand extending at the same time as
it recedes.
                    What is _that_ like?
One moment, I'm a pitcher of
milk tipped dangerously forward; the next,
a band of pilgrims, pilgriming
toward the latest report: pieces of heaven again--
here, on earth.
                            Between tenderness
and violent force, if the choice is easy,
why then does each seem equally, with the same
persuasiveness, a form of luck
beneath which--
                             beneath which, I
should know better?
                                    In the meadows, in
adoration, am I not yours?


Carl Phillips, _The Rest of Love_


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wendy Battin
Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com
--------------------------

enstasy




From clitophon  Wed Aug 11 08:24:05 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 05:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wien
In-Reply-To: <20040811085254.66367.qmail@web40424.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040811122405.92193.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>

my first impressions of Wien was that I was in The
Pianist not merely touching the facade Polanski
constructed at Babelburg.  Igor, that large Russian
curmudgeon, stood at West Hauptbahnhof, looking very
much like the Russian paratrooper he first reminded me
of in Freiburg.  In truth he was gentle as a lamb, an
expert in semi-conductors and bad Russian jokes.  I
managed to get locked out of the apartment and had to
rush around looking for a phone box.  Ominously none
of the phones worked so I walked into a little cafe
with some friendly locals (what an oxymoron).  I
phoned directory enquiries to obtain his number and
was then stung for 18 euroes bill which I then argued
down to 10.  So, I went back to the apartment store
until Igor heard my screams about 3PM, attempting at
the same time to feed me some pickled gherkin, a
ubiquitous substance in Russia now and clearly their
marajuana.  I quickly realised that all the broken
phones might be the seed of a conspiracy but realised
this morning, in Mariahilferstra?e that the department
stores generously donated free e-mail.  It was from
there that I arranged the interview with Frau M.
Striding past the Joseph Haydn statue, the Joseph
Haydn memorial church and the Joseph Haydn English
cinema.  This wasn?t Wien, city of Freud's discovery,
this was Hell or a wee dimly lit alcove at the entry
to Hell, the one with the red spanglers and grossly
over-priced alcopops.
PM


		
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From tad  Tue Aug 10 09:14:15 2004
From: tad (The Old Mole)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:14:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)
References: <f160a121040809064610eafeab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c4800c$5bebcf00$6501a8c0@MoleHQ>

IOWA CITY, 1962



Donald Justice playing

softball, dark shades

cloaking his courtliness

like a bandit's mask on an



owl, but he'll not be

courtly for long

anyway: a call goes

against him, and his cheeks flame,



his arm goes up in a

pumping protest

against the vagaries

of wind, spin, fingertips' torque -



the only subtleties

to elude him?

I so wanted to be

like him then, not that I'd have



admitted it-only

that innocence,

that wild softball passion,

that one hapless assurance.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Halvard Johnson" <halvard at gmail.com>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:46 AM
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Donald Justice (1925-2004)


> The Evening of the Mind
>
> Now comes the evening of the mind.
> Here are the fireflies twitching in the blood;
> Here is the shadow moving down the page
> Where you sit reading by the garden wall.
> Now the dwarf peach trees, nailed to their trellises,
> Shudder and droop. Your know their voices now,
> Faintly the martyred peaches crying out
> Your name, the name nobody knows but you.
> It is the aura and the coming on.
> It is the thing descending, circling, here.
> And now it puts a claw out and you take it.
> Thankfully in your lap you take it, so.
>
> You said you would not go away again,
> You did not want to go away -- and yet,
> It is as if you stood out on the dock
> Watching a little boat drift out
> Beyond the sawgrass shallows, the dead fish ...
> And you were in it, skimming past old snags,
> Beyond, beyond, under a brazen sky
> As soundless as a gong before it's struck --
> Suspended how? -- and now they strike it, now
> The ether dream of five-years-old repeats, repeats,
> And you must wake again to your own blood
> And empty spaces in the throat.
>
>             Donald Justice,
>             fr. *Night Light*, University Press of New England, 1965
>
>
> --
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
>
> -- 
> Hal
>
> Halvard Johnson
> halvard at gmail.com
> halvard at earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>





From gmguddi  Wed Aug 11 22:20:51 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:20:51 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Eliot Weinberger
In-Reply-To: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
References: <200408051944.i75JiM3d043338@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040811211021.02faafe0@mail.ilstu.edu>

Yeah, that Weinberger guy's got a real fine ear alright, All that wine and 
burger eating.

At 04:02 PM 8/5/2004, Chris Stroffolino wrote:
>Ah, what an "ear" that fella whineburger's got


and

At 02:39 PM 8/5/2004, Helen Ruggieri wrote:
Yeah, but look at it this way - ya keep em poor and hungry and they'll 
enlist just to eat.    It's all part of the plan.
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From grahamd  Thu Aug 12 10:47:45 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:47:45 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
Message-ID: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Our new Poet Laureate is Ted Kooser:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/11/nati
onal1959EDT0706.DTL



====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From anny.ballardini  Thu Aug 12 11:08:24 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:08:24 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Thanks for letting us know,
Anny

From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:47 PM


> Our new Poet Laureate is Ted Kooser:
>
>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/11/nati
> onal1959EDT0706.DTL
>
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





From bobgrumman  Thu Aug 12 11:50:23 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:50:23 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Are laureates in only a year now?  Aside from how worthy they are, it seems
to me severely to diminish the office to have them in for less than five or
six years.  A real laureate should be in for life, I think.

--Bob G.





From crystallyn  Thu Aug 12 12:01:17 2004
From: crystallyn (Crystal King)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:01:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
In-Reply-To: <014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu>
	<001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <d03e49bc040812090133c5fda2@mail.gmail.com>

Worse, they are only in for 8 months!  I suppose that makes the $35k
salary only slightly more palatable.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:50:23 -0400, Bob Grumman
<bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net> wrote:
> Are laureates in only a year now?  Aside from how worthy they are, it seems
> to me severely to diminish the office to have them in for less than five or
> six years.  A real laureate should be in for life, I think.
> 
........................................................
Hitch your wagon to a star. ~ Emerson

www.plumrubyreview.com



From anny.ballardini  Thu Aug 12 12:04:45 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:04:45 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>

There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might send us
up, too, what do you think, Bob?

From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:50 PM


> Are laureates in only a year now?  Aside from how worthy they are, it
seems
> to me severely to diminish the office to have them in for less than five
or
> six years.  A real laureate should be in for life, I think.
>
> --Bob G.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From bobgrumman  Thu Aug 12 12:52:30 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:52:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06><014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <017601c4808c$c3a05d20$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

> There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might send
us
> up, too, what do you think, Bob?

What??!  Share it with others!!??  I wanna be WORLD POET LAUREATE IN
PERPETUUM!

Mr. B.





From upwardcat  Thu Aug 12 13:47:10 2004
From: upwardcat (Wendy Battin)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:47:10 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
In-Reply-To: <005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
	<005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <A2FB1EA6-EC87-11D8-800B-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>

On Aug 12, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
> There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might 
> send us
> up, too, what do you think, Bob?

I think we've already been sent up.

Kooser?!  Did Gluck resign?

Wendy

Wendy Battin        wjbat at conncoll.edu
Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com

Paper can't wrap up a fire.
Chinese




From grahamd  Thu Aug 12 15:12:41 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:12:41 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
Message-ID: <BD412B59.A769%grahamd@ripon.edu>

A list of all the laureates/consultants since 1937 is online at the Library
of Congress site. 

http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate.html

It's an interesting read, rather akin to lists of the Pulitzer or Yale
Younger winners, with which it overlaps notably--in other words, it's a fair
if limited snapshot of period taste and its evolution.

Interesting to see how Robert Frost, for one notable example, had to wait
for many years for the honor, which went before him to the likes of Robert
Penn Warren, Conrad Aiken, Randall Jarrell, Karl Shapiro, and Louise Bogan.
. . fine poets all, but not in Frost's league, as should have been clear
well before the late 1950s.

Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.

One interesting feature of the list is the way that it shows, in the
essential conservatism of official accolades, how firmly entrenched the Old
Formalists were until quite recently.  In other words, scan the honorees
during the heyday of "naked poetry" and such, and what will you find?  No
Ginsberg, Bly, Kinnell, Merwin, Ferlinghetti, Sexton, et al.--but rather
Nemerov, Kumin, Kunitz, Hecht, Eberhart, Spender, Wilbur, Daniel Hoffman. .
. . (William Carlos Williams was appointed to the post in 1952 but did not
serve.)

Time will tell if Ted Kooser is yet another Joseph Auslander, I have no
doubt.  


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From Rsgwynn1  Thu Aug 12 16:08:37 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:08:37 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
Message-ID: <79.30cf777d.2e4d2845@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/12/2004 2:11:20 PM Central Daylight Time, 
grahamd at ripon.edu writes: 
> 
> Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
> place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
> Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
> little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.


Smith is still with us, and I think Whittemore is as well.  Smith is still 
writing well.  I don't think Pound would have been a very savory choice, David.
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From grahamd  Thu Aug 12 16:21:09 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:21:09 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
In-Reply-To: <79.30cf777d.2e4d2845@cs.com>
Message-ID: <BD413B65.A775%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 8/12/04 3:08 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com at Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/12/2004 2:11:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
grahamd at ripon.edu writes:

Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.



Smith is still with us, and I think Whittemore is as well.  Smith is still
writing well.  I don't think Pound would have been a very savory choice,
David. 
_______________________________________________



Didn't say they were dead, Sam, just that they were consultants decades ago;
didn't say they were lousy poets, either, just that they may not be among
the immortals.  Neither may you and I, obviously.  Frost is one of the few
on the list I'm personally certain about.

About Pound & prizes, I seem to recall a *bit* of controversy on that score
over the years, a can of worms I won't be opening here. . . .

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================


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From Rsgwynn1  Thu Aug 12 16:22:09 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:22:09 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
Message-ID: <1ce.2878536a.2e4d2b71@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/12/2004 3:19:42 PM Central Daylight Time, 
grahamd at ripon.edu writes: 
> 
> 
> on 8/12/04 3:08 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com at Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
> 
> >> In a message dated 8/12/2004 2:11:20 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>> grahamd at ripon.edu writes: 
>> >>> 
>>> Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
>>> place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
>>> Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
>>> little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Smith is still with us, and I think Whittemore is as well.  Smith is still 
>> writing well.  I don't think Pound would have been a very savory choice, 
>> David. 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> 
> Didn't say they were dead, Sam, just that they were consultants decades ago; 
> didn't say they were lousy poets, either, just that they may not be among 
> the immortals.  Neither may you and I, obviously.  Frost is one of the few on 
> the list I'm personally certain about.
> 
> About Pound &prizes, I seem to recall a *bit* of controversy on that score 
> over the years, a can of worms I won't be opening here. . . .
> 
Yeah, and that was a Library of Congress brouhaha, too.
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From clitophon  Thu Aug 12 17:36:15 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:36:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] =?iso-8859-1?q?M=FCnchen?=
In-Reply-To: <20040811122405.92193.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040812213615.88221.qmail@web40408.mail.yahoo.com>

Now I?m in M?nchen I see what a toy town it is
compared to Berlin.  Still M?nchen is a bit cleaner,
it just has nothing to compare with Friedrichstra?e or
Potsdamer Platz.  I?m amazed that I didn?t see this
before but then I was never in Berlin before.  Tonight
I went to the sauna, a very traditional and popular
German pleasure.  Again I just yearned to get back to
Berlin, to the sauna near the Kaiser Wilhelm
Ged?chtnis Kirche.  In Berlin I was just around the
corner from the Friedhof where Hegel, Fichte,
Brecht\Wiegel lie, now there?s history.  Not that
M?nchen doesn?t have history either but it all seems
charming and slightly nonsensically eccentric in a
K?nig Ludwig\Richard Wagner way.


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail



From anny.ballardini  Thu Aug 12 18:31:57 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:31:57 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06><014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc><005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<A2FB1EA6-EC87-11D8-800B-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c480bc$2dbd6390$8ea93452@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Yes, you are right, about that ascending.
And beautiful pictures of Aegina on your site,

Anny Ballardini
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome

The aim of the poet is to awaken emotions in the soul, not to gather
admirers.
Stalker, Andrei Tarkovsky

From: "Wendy Battin" <upwardcat at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:47 PM


> On Aug 12, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Anny Ballardini wrote:
> > There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might
> > send us
> > up, too, what do you think, Bob?
>
> I think we've already been sent up.
>
> Kooser?!  Did Gluck resign?
>
> Wendy
>
> Wendy Battin        wjbat at conncoll.edu
> Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com
>
> Paper can't wrap up a fire.
> Chinese
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From hruggier  Thu Aug 12 20:26:17 2004
From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:26:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <BD40ED41.A73F%grahamd@ripon.edu><001c01c4807e$37742650$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06><014501c48084$2afeb330$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc><005101c48086$16769660$492bb750@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<017601c4808c$c3a05d20$6eefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>
Message-ID: <00ca01c480cc$275126d0$43099942@Helen>

Bob Southey to you!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Grumman" <bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled


> > There are so many that I think it is good to rotate them, they might
send
> us
> > up, too, what do you think, Bob?
>
> What??!  Share it with others!!??  I wanna be WORLD POET LAUREATE IN
> PERPETUUM!
>
> Mr. B.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>





From hruggier  Thu Aug 12 20:33:30 2004
From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:33:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot
References: <BD412B59.A769%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <00f301c480cd$2954a280$43099942@Helen>

Do you think that because these folks were part of the poetry
establishment - judges, editors, etc. - they were
honored  rather than for "poetry" itself.

I know, that sentence is awful, but it's late and I've had a long day.

One of the common folks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Graham" <grahamd at ripon.edu>
To: <new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:12 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Laureate Snapshot


> A list of all the laureates/consultants since 1937 is online at the
Library
> of Congress site.
>
> http://www.loc.gov/poetry/laureate.html
>
> It's an interesting read, rather akin to lists of the Pulitzer or Yale
> Younger winners, with which it overlaps notably--in other words, it's a
fair
> if limited snapshot of period taste and its evolution.
>
> Interesting to see how Robert Frost, for one notable example, had to wait
> for many years for the honor, which went before him to the likes of Robert
> Penn Warren, Conrad Aiken, Randall Jarrell, Karl Shapiro, and Louise
Bogan.
> . . fine poets all, but not in Frost's league, as should have been clear
> well before the late 1950s.
>
> Naturally, there are names from decades ago that we now may hesitate to
> place among the immortals:  Louis Untermeyer, Reed Whittemore, William Jay
> Smith, Leonie Adams, Joseph Auslander.  And absences that now may seem a
> little glaring:  Pound, Stevens, Moore.
>
> One interesting feature of the list is the way that it shows, in the
> essential conservatism of official accolades, how firmly entrenched the
Old
> Formalists were until quite recently.  In other words, scan the honorees
> during the heyday of "naked poetry" and such, and what will you find?  No
> Ginsberg, Bly, Kinnell, Merwin, Ferlinghetti, Sexton, et al.--but rather
> Nemerov, Kumin, Kunitz, Hecht, Eberhart, Spender, Wilbur, Daniel Hoffman.
.
> . . (William Carlos Williams was appointed to the post in 1952 but did not
> serve.)
>
> Time will tell if Ted Kooser is yet another Joseph Auslander, I have no
> doubt.
>
>
> ====================================================
> David Graham
> grahamd at ripon.edu
> Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
> Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
> ====================================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>





From barry.spacks  Thu Aug 12 21:21:36 2004
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:21:36 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
In-Reply-To: <200408130024.i7D0OpYC008829@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040812181903.00b62ec8@incoming.verizon.net>


AT THE OFFICE EARLY

Rain has beaded the panes
of my office windows,
and in each little lens
the bank at the corner
hangs upside down.
What wonderful music
this rain must have made
in the night, a thousand banks
turned over, the change
crashing out of the drawers
and bouncing upstairs
to the roof, the soft
percussion of ferns
dropping out of their pots,
the ballpoint pens
popping out of their sockets
in a fluffy snow
of deposit slips.
Now all day long,
as the sun dries the glass,
I'll hear the soft piano
of banks righting themselves,
the underpaid tellers
counting their nickels and dimes.

TED KOOSER
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From Rsgwynn1  Thu Aug 12 23:03:20 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:03:20 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
Message-ID: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>

I frankly can't think of why anyone who has read his work would consider 
Kooser a "Hallmark Laureate."  He has been, in the course of a long and 
distinguished career, clearly outside the mainstream--not an academic, not an 
insider--and he has produced a body of work that speaks to many people, all things being 
relative.  I don't think he's a "populist" poet in any sense because the 
whole notion of a "populist" poet these days is pretty absurd when you get right 
down to it, unless you mean Eminem.  Like most poets, he is mostly admired by 
other poets, the only people in this country who really read much poetry and 
seriously care about it (alas)--and there are quite a few who have cared about 
Kooser's work for a long time.  It's a shame that he doesn't have a wider 
audience, but that's a complaint that could be lodged by/about 10,000+ other poets 
and those who respect their work.  Kooser's nomination came as a surprise to 
me, a pleasant one.
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From m.peverett  Fri Aug 13 05:36:55 2004
From: m.peverett (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:36:55 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
In-Reply-To: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>
References: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>
Message-ID: <1092389815.411c8bb7b0a63@webmail.ukonline.net>




Of course he's a populist poet.

And a sweet one. He had a funny idea about an upside-down bank and he knocked 
out a poem to make people smile on their way to the office. 

Which makes up, to a degree, for simple incompetence like "soft piano", which 
is not only tautologous but retroactively spoils the "soft percussion" of the 
crashing ferns which was the best thing in the poem. 

He's been elevated because he's Nebraskan and seems to be a regular guy; not 
because he can write. Google says: "a major poetic voice for rural and small-
town America and the first poet laureate chosen from the Great Plains." "an 
authentic poet of the American people" "Reading Local Wonders: Seasons in the 
Bohemian Alps is like visiting ?Uncle Ted? on the farm in Nebraska. Once 
you?re there, he invites you to rest on the porch in a comfortable but worn 
rocker and hands you a fresh lemonade. In a short time, you realize there?s 
nothing to rush off to, chirping birds make a wonderful metronome, and your 
host?a thoughtful witty man in his sixties with thin gray hair, a boyish 
smile, and wire rimmed glasses?has a critical eye for details." 
(nb "He is former vice-president of Lincoln Benefit Life, an insurance 
company, and lives on an acreage near the village of Garland, NE.") 




















Quoting Rsgwynn1 at cs.com:

> I frankly can't think of why anyone who has read his work would consider 
> Kooser a "Hallmark Laureate."  He has been, in the course of a long and 
> distinguished career, clearly outside the mainstream--not an academic, not an
> 
> insider--and he has produced a body of work that speaks to many people, all
> things being 
> relative.  I don't think he's a "populist" poet in any sense because the 
> whole notion of a "populist" poet these days is pretty absurd when you get
> right 
> down to it, unless you mean Eminem.  Like most poets, he is mostly admired by
> 
> other poets, the only people in this country who really read much poetry and
> 
> seriously care about it (alas)--and there are quite a few who have cared
> about 
> Kooser's work for a long time.  It's a shame that he doesn't have a wider 
> audience, but that's a complaint that could be lodged by/about 10,000+ other
> poets 
> and those who respect their work.  Kooser's nomination came as a surprise to
> 
> me, a pleasant one.
> 




----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net



From anny.ballardini  Fri Aug 13 05:57:21 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:57:21 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>
	<1092389815.411c8bb7b0a63@webmail.ukonline.net>
Message-ID: <004201c4811b$ed69f1e0$11aa3452@yourpk9x5fuc06>

I liked this one:

            Selecting A Reader


              First, I would have her be beautiful,
            and walking carefully up on my poetry
            at the loneliest moment of an afternoon,
            her hair still damp at the neck
            from washing it. She should be wearing
            a raincoat, an old one, dirty
            from not having money enough for the cleaners.
            She will take out her glasses, and there
            in the bookstore, she will thumb
            over my poems, then put the book back
            up on its shelf. She will say to herself,
            "For that kind of money, I can get
            my raincoat cleaned." And she will.

            Ted Kooser


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk>
To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled


>
>
>
> Of course he's a populist poet.
>
> And a sweet one. He had a funny idea about an upside-down bank and he
knocked
> out a poem to make people smile on their way to the office.
>
> Which makes up, to a degree, for simple incompetence like "soft piano",
which
> is not only tautologous but retroactively spoils the "soft percussion" of
the
> crashing ferns which was the best thing in the poem.
>
> He's been elevated because he's Nebraskan and seems to be a regular guy;
not
> because he can write. Google says: "a major poetic voice for rural and
small-
> town America and the first poet laureate chosen from the Great Plains."
"an
> authentic poet of the American people" "Reading Local Wonders: Seasons in
the
> Bohemian Alps is like visiting "Uncle Ted" on the farm in Nebraska. Once
> you're there, he invites you to rest on the porch in a comfortable but
worn
> rocker and hands you a fresh lemonade. In a short time, you realize
there's
> nothing to rush off to, chirping birds make a wonderful metronome, and
your
> host-a thoughtful witty man in his sixties with thin gray hair, a boyish
> smile, and wire rimmed glasses-has a critical eye for details."
> (nb "He is former vice-president of Lincoln Benefit Life, an insurance
> company, and lives on an acreage near the village of Garland, NE.")
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Rsgwynn1 at cs.com:
>
> > I frankly can't think of why anyone who has read his work would consider
> > Kooser a "Hallmark Laureate."  He has been, in the course of a long and
> > distinguished career, clearly outside the mainstream--not an academic,
not an
> >
> > insider--and he has produced a body of work that speaks to many people,
all
> > things being
> > relative.  I don't think he's a "populist" poet in any sense because the
> > whole notion of a "populist" poet these days is pretty absurd when you
get
> > right
> > down to it, unless you mean Eminem.  Like most poets, he is mostly
admired by
> >
> > other poets, the only people in this country who really read much poetry
and
> >
> > seriously care about it (alas)--and there are quite a few who have cared
> > about
> > Kooser's work for a long time.  It's a shame that he doesn't have a
wider
> > audience, but that's a complaint that could be lodged by/about 10,000+
other
> > poets
> > and those who respect their work.  Kooser's nomination came as a
surprise to
> >
> > me, a pleasant one.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From anny.ballardini  Fri Aug 13 06:05:32 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:05:32 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com><1092389815.411c8bb7b0a63@webmail.ukonline.net>
	<004201c4811b$ed69f1e0$11aa3452@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <004801c4811d$11dbd1f0$11aa3452@yourpk9x5fuc06>

And this one is quite representative, I guess, of why he was chosen, from
Poetry Daily:

Garrison, Nebraska


  The north-south streets are named for poets-
  Longfellow, Whittier, Bryant, Lowell-
  so it's no surprise that this tiny village
  is fading to gray, mildewed and dusty,
  shelved at the back of the busy library
  of American progress. On this winter day
  all that's left of Whittier's "Snowbound"
  whispers in under the nailed-shut door
  of a house at the edge of a cornfield,
  and slides across a red vinyl car seat
  wedged in a broken tree. All but a few
  stubborn families have packed up and left,
  seeking a better life, following Evangeline,
  leaving this island with its cars up on blocks,
  its gardens of broken washing machines,
  its empty rabbit hutches nailed to sheds,
  cold and alone on the sea of the prairie,
  to be pounded and pounded forever
  by time and these whitecaps of snow.


  Ted Kooser


  He was able to ring a strange nostalgia in me. Anny





From bobgrumman  Fri Aug 13 07:04:42 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:04:42 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040812181903.00b62ec8@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <006401c48125$57b94830$3aefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Sounds a lot like Billy Collins.  (Not a sneer--I like it, as I like many of his poems.)

--Bob G.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barry Spacks 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:21 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!




    AT THE OFFICE EARLY


    Rain has beaded the panes 
    of my office windows, 
    and in each little lens 
    the bank at the corner 
    hangs upside down. 
    What wonderful music 
    this rain must have made 
    in the night, a thousand banks 
    turned over, the change 
    crashing out of the drawers 
    and bouncing upstairs 
    to the roof, the soft 
    percussion of ferns 
    dropping out of their pots, 
    the ballpoint pens 
    popping out of their sockets 
    in a fluffy snow 
    of deposit slips. 
    Now all day long, 
    as the sun dries the glass, 
    I'll hear the soft piano 
    of banks righting themselves, 
    the underpaid tellers 
    counting their nickels and dimes.


    TED KOOSER 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From bobgrumman  Fri Aug 13 07:12:12 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:12:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
References: <85.13037d82.2e4d8978@cs.com>
Message-ID: <008401c48126$63b89cc0$3aefa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>



  I frankly can't think of why anyone who has read his work would consider Kooser a "Hallmark Laureate."  He has been, in the course of a long and distinguished career, clearly outside the mainstream

  What kind of mainstream can you possibly talking about, Sam?  My impression is that Kooser is a good poet but absolutely mainstream.  What poetic device or subject matter or anything is he using that hasn't been mainstream for fifty years.  I know, you go on to suggest that being mainstream is being an academic and/or in some in-group.  To me being a mainstreamer means writing the same kind of poems mainstreamers write (and getting them published in mainstream venues, as I'm sure Kooser has).  I am against his nomination because I think an occasional innovative poet ought to serve as poet laureate.

  --Bob G.
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From Rsgwynn1  Fri Aug 13 09:31:10 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:31:10 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
Message-ID: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>

My favorite.

Abandoned Farmhouse
by Ted Kooser, 1980
from Sure Signs: New and Selected Poems

He was big man, says the size of his shoes
on a pile of broken dishes by his house;
a tall man too, says the length of the bed
in an upstairs room; and a good, God-fearing man,
says the Bible with a broken back
on the floor below the window, dusty with sun;
but not a man for farming, say the fields
cluttered with boulders and the leaky barn.
A woman lived here, says the bedroom wall
papered with lilacs and the kitchen shelves
covered with oilcloth, and they had a child,
says the sandbox made from a tractor tire.
Money was scarce, say the jar of plum preserves
and canned tomatoes sealed in the cellar hole.
And the winters cold, say the rags in the window frames.

It was lonely here, says the narrow country road.
Something went wrong, says the empty house
in the weed-choked yard. Stones in the fields
say he was not a farmer; the still-sealed jars
in the cellar say she left in a nervous haste.
And the child? Its toys are strewn in the yard
like branches after a storm - a rubber cow,
a rusty tractor with a broken plow,
a doll in overalls. Something went wrong, they say.

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From m.peverett  Fri Aug 13 11:06:20 2004
From: m.peverett (m.peverett at ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:06:20 +0100
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
In-Reply-To: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>
References: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>
Message-ID: <1092409580.411cd8ec5f3c9@webmail.ukonline.net>

Yes, this is more like. I'm glad you quoted this. 


Quoting Rsgwynn1 at cs.com:

> My favorite.
> 
> Abandoned Farmhouse
> by Ted Kooser, 1980
> from Sure Signs: New and Selected Poems
> 
> He was big man, says the size of his shoes
> on a pile of broken dishes by his house;
> a tall man too, says the length of the bed
> in an upstairs room; and a good, God-fearing man,
> says the Bible with a broken back
> on the floor below the window, dusty with sun;
> but not a man for farming, say the fields
> cluttered with boulders and the leaky barn.
> A woman lived here, says the bedroom wall
> papered with lilacs and the kitchen shelves
> covered with oilcloth, and they had a child,
> says the sandbox made from a tractor tire.
> Money was scarce, say the jar of plum preserves
> and canned tomatoes sealed in the cellar hole.
> And the winters cold, say the rags in the window frames.
> 
> It was lonely here, says the narrow country road.
> Something went wrong, says the empty house
> in the weed-choked yard. Stones in the fields
> say he was not a farmer; the still-sealed jars
> in the cellar say she left in a nervous haste.
> And the child? Its toys are strewn in the yard
> like branches after a storm - a rubber cow,
> a rusty tractor with a broken plow,
> a doll in overalls. Something went wrong, they say.
> 
> 




----------------------------------------------
This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net



From alphavil  Fri Aug 13 10:47:20 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:47:20 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] from Washington DC
In-Reply-To: <BD412B59.A769%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BD412B59.A769%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <411CD478.4040203@ix.netcom.com>

The Washington Post on WMDs--- An Inside Job:
Post Knew It Had Another Gulf Of Tonkin On Its Hands And Like 
Administration And Congress It Lied As Iraqis And Americans Die[d]:
Prewar Articles Questioning Threat Often Didn't Make Front Page; For 
Full Orchestration See Page R97:
Cheney's Oil Gouge At The Pump Fuckin' Up Roger Noriega's Ability To 
Murder Chavez And Allow Cheney To Steal Venezuela's Oil; Greed Blinds De 
Facto Chief Executive And Corporate Paramour; Noriega Hopes Referendum 
Leads To Chavez's Murder, Resumes Starvation Of Poor, Opens Venezuelan 
Oil To American Grift:
People Protecting Their Houses Of Worship Butchered By Americans In Najaf

By BOWAND KURTZY
Assassinated Press Staff Writer

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/kurtzy.htm



From anna_beth_young  Fri Aug 13 11:25:06 2004
From: anna_beth_young (Anna Young)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
In-Reply-To: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>
Message-ID: <20040813152506.85195.qmail@web51304.mail.yahoo.com>

i liked this poem too, when I read it years ago, it reminded me of R.S. Thomas -- thanks for posting it here.

Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:My favorite.

Abandoned Farmhouse
by Ted Kooser, 1980
from Sure Signs: New and Selected Poems

He was big man, says the size of his shoes
on a pile of broken dishes by his house;
a tall man too, says the length of the bed
in an upstairs room; and a good, God-fearing man,
says the Bible with a broken back
on the floor below the window, dusty with sun;
but not a man for farming, say the fields
cluttered with boulders and the leaky barn.
A woman lived here, says the bedroom wall
papered with lilacs and the kitchen shelves
covered with oilcloth, and they had a child,
says the sandbox made from a tractor tire.
Money was scarce, say the jar of plum preserves
and canned tomatoes sealed in the cellar hole.
And the winters cold, say the rags in the window frames.

It was lonely here, says the narrow country road.
Something went wrong, says the empty house
in the weed-choked yard. Stones in the fields
say he was not a farmer; the still-sealed jars
in the cellar say she left in a nervous haste.
And the child? Its toys are strewn in the yard
like branches after a storm - a rubber cow,
a rusty tractor with a broken plow,
a doll in overalls. Something went wrong, they say.

_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


		
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From bobgrumman  Fri Aug 13 12:39:47 2004
From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:39:47 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Easy Lies the Head That Wears the Laurel!
References: <e6.5642e0a5.2e4e1c9e@cs.com>
	<1092409580.411cd8ec5f3c9@webmail.ukonline.net>
Message-ID: <00dc01c48154$2afd8430$41efa1cd@youro0kwkw9jwc>

Sorry, I find this thing way overdone.  And prosaic.

The Literary Terrorist

> > Abandoned Farmhouse
> > by Ted Kooser, 1980
> > from Sure Signs: New and Selected Poems
> > 
> > He was big man, says the size of his shoes
> > on a pile of broken dishes by his house;
> > a tall man too, says the length of the bed
> > in an upstairs room; and a good, God-fearing man,
> > says the Bible with a broken back
> > on the floor below the window, dusty with sun;
> > but not a man for farming, say the fields
> > cluttered with boulders and the leaky barn.
> > A woman lived here, says the bedroom wall
> > papered with lilacs and the kitchen shelves
> > covered with oilcloth, and they had a child,
> > says the sandbox made from a tractor tire.
> > Money was scarce, say the jar of plum preserves
> > and canned tomatoes sealed in the cellar hole.
> > And the winters cold, say the rags in the window frames.
> > 
> > It was lonely here, says the narrow country road.
> > Something went wrong, says the empty house
> > in the weed-choked yard. Stones in the fields
> > say he was not a farmer; the still-sealed jars
> > in the cellar say she left in a nervous haste.
> > And the child? Its toys are strewn in the yard
> > like branches after a storm - a rubber cow,
> > a rusty tractor with a broken plow,
> > a doll in overalls. Something went wrong, they say.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 




From barry.spacks  Fri Aug 13 14:10:50 2004
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:10:50 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Julia
In-Reply-To: <200408131600.i7DG04YC011707@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040813110759.00b726e8@incoming.verizon.net>



                                     WEEPER
                              for Simms Teramoto

Just because I tend to weep
at funerals, at weddings,

sometimes at well-spiced noodle-dishes;

once while reading Kurt Vonnegut
where he wrote that The Statler Brothers, great singers,
adopted the name of their band from a brand
of paper towels, and once when Julia
Child spent twenty-two pages telling
how properly to prepare french bread,

doesn't mean (recalling Goethe-,
Beethoven-loving Nazis) that I'm

a good guy, just because I weep...
but God, it feels that way!

                                 -- Barry Spacks
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From hruggier  Fri Aug 13 20:39:09 2004
From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 20:39:09 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Julia
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040813110759.00b726e8@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <010b01c48197$1d696df0$eb089942@Helen>

Go, Barry!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Barry Spacks 
  To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu 
  Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 2:10 PM
  Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Julia





                                            WEEPER 
                                     for Simms Teramoto


        Just because I tend to weep 
        at funerals, at weddings,


        sometimes at well-spiced noodle-dishes;


        once while reading Kurt Vonnegut 
        where he wrote that The Statler Brothers, great singers, 
        adopted the name of their band from a brand 
        of paper towels, and once when Julia 
        Child spent twenty-two pages telling 
        how properly to prepare french bread,


        doesn't mean (recalling Goethe-, 
        Beethoven-loving Nazis) that I'm


        a good guy, just because I weep... 
        but God, it feels that way!


                                        -- Barry Spacks 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
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  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From upwardcat  Sat Aug 14 06:42:33 2004
From: upwardcat (Wendy Battin)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 06:42:33 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Milosz
Message-ID: <A6613512-EDDE-11D8-8A1F-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>

Nobel Laureate Czeslaw Milosz Dies at 93
Aug 14, 6:31 AM (ET)

WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Polish poet and Nobel laureate Czeslaw Milosz, 
known for his intellectual and emotional works about some of the worst 
cruelties of the 20th century, died Saturday, the Polish news agency 
PAP reported. He was 93.

The report, quoting his son Antoni and his daughter Joanna, said he 
died at his home in Krakow. It gave no cause of death.

Milosz had lived in Krakow since the fall of the Iron Curtain allowed 
him to return home after almost 30 years in exile in France and the 
United States, a time in which he became a prominent symbol for 
anti-communist dissidents.

He was awarded the Nobel prize in literature in 1980, an honor that 
coincided with the emergence of the Solidarity worker protest movement 
that shook communist rule in Poland.


=============
Wendy Battin      wjbat at conncoll.edu
Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com

What you lose in the fire, you will find in the ashes. 




From clitophon  Sat Aug 14 12:52:14 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Topographie des Terrors
In-Reply-To: <A6613512-EDDE-11D8-8A1F-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <20040814165214.85178.qmail@web40411.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear M,

I visited this retro theme park of the Dritten Reich. 
The faces of Heydrich, He?, Himmler almost have a
homeliness and are certainly as familiar as the faces
of many old friends.  There are some hilarious photos
- a platoon of Wehrmacht infantrymen form the shape of
a swastika and fire a volley into the air.  Its hard
not to be reminded of the hilarious camp Hollywood
choreography a la Busby Berkeley when you see this. 
There are the many sobering but rather predictable
photos of the opfers.  I think with so much
predictability I started to question the meanings of
some of the photos.  Of course photos of a pogrom in
Poland could be photos of a pogrom almost anywhere,
doctored, produced, sexed up.  At a very basic level
the Museum presumes an uncritical and unquestioning
audience which is not to say that many, if not all of
the images are true, real or whatever.  But we?re not
led to ask the question - does the camera ever lie
which would have made the exhibition very interesting
indeed, questioning its own terms and veracity?  I
might have believed in it then.  

PM



		
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From grahamd  Sat Aug 14 12:57:30 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 11:57:30 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Milosz/Earth Without Grammar
In-Reply-To: <A6613512-EDDE-11D8-8A1F-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <BD43AEAA.A84D%grahamd@ripon.edu>

THE THISTLE, THE NETTLE


    Let the sad terrestrials remember me,
    recognize me and salute:  the thistle and the tall nettle,
    and the childhood enemy, belladonna.
        -O.  V.  DE  L.  MILOSZ, "Les  Terrains Vagues"


The thistle, the nettle,  the burdock, and belladonna
Have a future.  Theirs are wastelands
And rusty railroad tracks, the sky, silence.

Who  shall I be for men many generations later?
When, after the clamor of tongues, the award goes to silence?

I was to be redeemed by the gift of arranging words
But must be prepared for an earth without grammar,

For the thistle, the nettle, the burdock, and the belladonna,
And a small wind above them, a sleepy cloud, silence.

    --Czeslaw Milosz, trans. Hass & Milosz.
---------------------------


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From writerslink  Sat Aug 14 21:53:16 2004
From: writerslink (Chris Mansell)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:53:16 +1000
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Milosz
In-Reply-To: <A6613512-EDDE-11D8-8A1F-000A9573C758@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <BD44FF2C.6A04%writerslink@ozemail.com.au>

Now the world is diminished.
Cm
On 14/8/04 8:42 PM, "Wendy Battin" <upwardcat at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Nobel Laureate Czeslaw Milosz Dies at 93
> Aug 14, 6:31 AM (ET)
> 
> WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Polish poet and Nobel laureate Czeslaw Milosz,
> known for his intellectual and emotional works about some of the worst
> cruelties of the 20th century, died Saturday, the Polish news agency
> PAP reported. He was 93.
> 
> The report, quoting his son Antoni and his daughter Joanna, said he
> died at his home in Krakow. It gave no cause of death.
> 
> Milosz had lived in Krakow since the fall of the Iron Curtain allowed
> him to return home after almost 30 years in exile in France and the
> United States, a time in which he became a prominent symbol for
> anti-communist dissidents.
> 
> He was awarded the Nobel prize in literature in 1980, an honor that
> coincided with the emergence of the Solidarity worker protest movement
> that shook communist rule in Poland.
> 
> 
> =============
> Wendy Battin      wjbat at conncoll.edu
> Upward Cat Yoga  http://www.upwardcat.com
> 
> What you lose in the fire, you will find in the ashes.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From grahamd  Sun Aug 15 12:23:14 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:23:14 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Feast of Brief Hopes
Message-ID: <BD44F822.A88B%grahamd@ripon.edu>

A Confession

My Lord, I loved strawberry jam
And the dark sweetness of a woman's body.
Also well-chilled vodka, herring in olive oil,
Scents, of cinnamon, of cloves.
So what kind of prophet am I?  Why should the spirit
Have visited such a man? Many others
Were justly called, and trustworthy.
Who would have trusted me? For they saw
How I empty glasses, throw myself on food,
And glance greedily at the waitress's neck.
Flawed and aware of it.   Desiring greatness,
Able to recognize greatness wherever it is,
And yet not quite, only in part, clairvoyant,
I knew what was left for smaller men like me:
A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the proud,
A tournament of hunchbacks, literature.

            Berkeley, 1985

--Czeslaw Milosz.  Trans. Milosz & Robert Hass. *The Collected Poems
1931-1987*. 


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From alphavil  Sun Aug 15 12:15:43 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:15:43 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] A Feast of Brief Hopes
In-Reply-To: <BD44F822.A88B%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BD44F822.A88B%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <411F8C2F.5070102@ix.netcom.com>

<So what kind of prophet am[was] I?>

Deluded, perhaps? CP



David Graham wrote:

>A Confession
>
>My Lord, I loved strawberry jam
>And the dark sweetness of a woman's body.
>Also well-chilled vodka, herring in olive oil,
>Scents, of cinnamon, of cloves.
>So what kind of prophet am I?  Why should the spirit
>Have visited such a man? Many others
>Were justly called, and trustworthy.
>Who would have trusted me? For they saw
>How I empty glasses, throw myself on food,
>And glance greedily at the waitress's neck.
>Flawed and aware of it.   Desiring greatness,
>Able to recognize greatness wherever it is,
>And yet not quite, only in part, clairvoyant,
>I knew what was left for smaller men like me:
>A feast of brief hopes, a rally of the proud,
>A tournament of hunchbacks, literature.
>
>            Berkeley, 1985
>
>--Czeslaw Milosz.  Trans. Milosz & Robert Hass. *The Collected Poems
>1931-1987*. 
>
>
>====================================================
>David Graham
>grahamd at ripon.edu
>Home Page:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>Poetry Library:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>====================================================
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From anny.ballardini  Sun Aug 15 17:26:49 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:26:49 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
Message-ID: <003d01c4830e$9386ead0$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

I am forwarding this interesting and colored trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 

Anny

"Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from Bolivia, June 20-30," a
collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is newly available at
Jacket #25

 http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html

The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La Paz and environs, in
search of the ghost of the singularly strange and brilliant poet, Jaime
Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both historical and contemporary.
Hope some of you will take a look!

Kent
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From gmguddi  Sun Aug 15 17:42:19 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:42:19 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <003d01c4830e$9386ead0$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>
References: <003d01c4830e$9386ead0$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040815163614.029a4e08@mail.ilstu.edu>

Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with Forrest Gander. Forrest 
and Kent are CO-translators of Jaime Saenz.

Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET they each wrote: it's a half 
and half deal. Their translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of the 
Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN Translation award.

Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared in the great and 
internationally known magazine MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.

It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET.

Gabe

At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>I am forwarding this interesting and colored trip by Kent Johnson to 
>Bolivia to the list,
>
>Anny
>
>"Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is newly available at
>Jacket #25
>
> 
><http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html>http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>
>The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La Paz and environs, in
>search of the ghost of the singularly strange and brilliant poet, Jaime
>Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both historical and contemporary.
>Hope some of you will take a look!
>
>Kent
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From anny.ballardini  Sun Aug 15 18:00:43 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 00:00:43 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
References: <003d01c4830e$9386ead0$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>
	<6.0.3.0.2.20040815163614.029a4e08@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <008a01c48313$4f93f390$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent himself says just under my name that he and Gander wrote it together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned Kent since the message is signed by him. But thanks for taking your time and for giving all kinds of information, 

Anny
  From: Gabriel Gudding 
  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ; New Poetry 
  Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson


  Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are CO-translators of Jaime Saenz.

  Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN Translation award.

  Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared in the great and internationally known magazine MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.

  It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 

  Gabe

  At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:

    I am forwarding this interesting and colored trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
     
    Anny
     
    "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from Bolivia, June 20-30," a
    collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is newly available at
    Jacket #25

     http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html

    The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La Paz and environs, in
    search of the ghost of the singularly strange and brilliant poet, Jaime
    Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both historical and contemporary.
    Hope some of you will take a look!

    Kent
    _______________________________________________
    New-Poetry mailing list
    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
    http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From clitophon  Mon Aug 16 05:02:58 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:02:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <008a01c48313$4f93f390$818f3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>
Message-ID: <20040816090258.96858.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>

this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I thought
the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
doing with us?
PM
--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:

> Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent himself
> says just under my name that he and Gander wrote it
> together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned Kent
> since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
> taking your time and for giving all kinds of
> information, 
> 
> Anny
>   From: Gabriel Gudding 
>   To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ;
> New Poetry 
>   Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>   Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
> Johnson
> 
> 
>   Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
> Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are CO-translators
> of Jaime Saenz.
> 
>   Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
> they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
> translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
> the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
> Translation award.
> 
>   Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared in
> the great and internationally known magazine
> MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
> 
>   It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 
> 
>   Gabe
> 
>   At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
> 
>     I am forwarding this interesting and colored
> trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
>      
>     Anny
>      
>     "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from
> Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>     collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is
> newly available at
>     Jacket #25
> 
>      http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
> 
>     The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
> Paz and environs, in
>     search of the ghost of the singularly strange
> and brilliant poet, Jaime
>     Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
> historical and contemporary.
>     Hope some of you will take a look!
> 
>     Kent
>     _______________________________________________
>     New-Poetry mailing list
>     New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>    
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>   _______________________________________________
>   New-Poetry mailing list
>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>   http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> > _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 09:57:08 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:57:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040816090258.96858.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040816090258.96858.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>

So is the University of California publication listing a dummy listing?

I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another fraud after the 
Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud with poetry of such 
poor quality? Just asking.

Does show you one of the unintended negative consequences of accepting 
all this rotten poetry in exchange for some national or international 
sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a  campesino and boom 
automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump nostalgic 
midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural anomaly thrown in, it 
gains acceptance no matter how marginal all of them, especially the 
trivializers here in America are.

And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with show biz names, what 
do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) Simmons Def Poetry  ----  
on HBO? CP
 
Paul Murphy wrote:

>this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I thought
>the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
>doing with us?
>PM
>--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent himself
>>says just under my name that he and Gander wrote it
>>together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned Kent
>>since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
>>taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>information, 
>>
>>Anny
>>  From: Gabriel Gudding 
>>  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views ;
>>New Poetry 
>>  Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
>>Johnson
>>
>>
>>  Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
>>Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are CO-translators
>>of Jaime Saenz.
>>
>>  Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
>>they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
>>translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
>>the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
>>Translation award.
>>
>>  Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared in
>>the great and internationally known magazine
>>MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
>>
>>  It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 
>>
>>  Gabe
>>
>>  At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>>
>>    I am forwarding this interesting and colored
>>trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
>>     
>>    Anny
>>     
>>    "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes from
>>Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>>    collaboration between Forrest Gander and me, is
>>newly available at
>>    Jacket #25
>>
>>     http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>>
>>    The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
>>Paz and environs, in
>>    search of the ghost of the singularly strange
>>and brilliant poet, Jaime
>>    Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
>>historical and contemporary.
>>    Hope some of you will take a look!
>>
>>    Kent
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    New-Poetry mailing list
>>    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>   
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  New-Poetry mailing list
>>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>    
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>      
>>>
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From clitophon  Mon Aug 16 10:49:39 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>

I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
pleasantly surprised.
On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
PM
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> So is the University of California publication
> listing a dummy listing?
> 
> I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another
> fraud after the 
> Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud
> with poetry of such 
> poor quality? Just asking.
> 
> Does show you one of the unintended negative
> consequences of accepting 
> all this rotten poetry in exchange for some national
> or international 
> sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a 
> campesino and boom 
> automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump
> nostalgic 
> midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural
> anomaly thrown in, it 
> gains acceptance no matter how marginal all of them,
> especially the 
> trivializers here in America are.
> 
> And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with
> show biz names, what 
> do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) Simmons
> Def Poetry  ----  
> on HBO? CP
>  
> Paul Murphy wrote:
> 
> >this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
> thought
> >the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
> >The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
> >Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
> >doing with us?
> >PM
> >--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
> himself
> >>says just under my name that he and Gander wrote
> it
> >>together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned
> Kent
> >>since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
> >>taking your time and for giving all kinds of
> >>information, 
> >>
> >>Anny
> >>  From: Gabriel Gudding 
> >>  To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
> ;
> >>New Poetry 
> >>  Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
> >>  Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
> >>Johnson
> >>
> >>
> >>  Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
> >>Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are
> CO-translators
> >>of Jaime Saenz.
> >>
> >>  Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
> >>they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
> >>translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
> >>the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
> >>Translation award.
> >>
> >>  Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared
> in
> >>the great and internationally known magazine
> >>MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
> >>
> >>  It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 
> >>
> >>  Gabe
> >>
> >>  At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
> >>
> >>    I am forwarding this interesting and colored
> >>trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
> >>     
> >>    Anny
> >>     
> >>    "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes
> from
> >>Bolivia, June 20-30," a
> >>    collaboration between Forrest Gander and me,
> is
> >>newly available at
> >>    Jacket #25
> >>
> >>     http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
> >>
> >>    The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
> >>Paz and environs, in
> >>    search of the ghost of the singularly strange
> >>and brilliant poet, Jaime
> >>    Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
> >>historical and contemporary.
> >>    Hope some of you will take a look!
> >>
> >>    Kent
> >>   
> _______________________________________________
> >>    New-Poetry mailing list
> >>    New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >>   
> >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  
> >
> >>  _______________________________________________
> >>  New-Poetry mailing list
> >>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >> 
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>    
> >>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>New-Poetry mailing list
> >>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >		
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
> >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
> >_______________________________________________
> >New-Poetry mailing list
> >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> >  
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



	
		
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From clitophon  Mon Aug 16 11:23:24 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:23:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Wien 2
In-Reply-To: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040816152324.76918.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>

Heute Ich habe sehr Gro? Zahnschmerz, Ich rauche zu
viel.  Ich war in Wien mit Igor Stepanov auch.  Er ist
ein besser (sandwich maker) als pyhsiker.  Wien ist
schrecklich, ein (total crisis in the social services,
all the phones are kaputt.  A very dark place, one
legged beggars, all the things you loved and lived in
?The Third Man?are true.)  Igor has a little toaster,
excellent gouda on bread and then toasted.  The cafe
down the street charged me 18 euroes for a local call,
I protested, a HitlerJugend type thug put his arm
around me.  A good swivelling distance away, ice
settled in a glass.  These are economics of the
blackest market.  Everyone has changed to Handies or
is being forcepped to.  I got lost, it was the middle
of the night.  I yelled up to the balcony and somehow
the gargantuan Russian curmudgeon shouted hoarsely
back.  Yet more evidence that I have the luck of the
Devil or maybe so much bad luck that my good luck
seems amazing.  He recognised my screams and then
tried to feed me pickled gherkins, now almost like
currency in Russia where even shoelaces and spit are
worth very much more than the local dosh.  Beware the
rides of March, a very well known strassenbahn halt in
Wien.  The Fried Museum, also a well-known U-Bahn halt
where the theroes of Fraud were tossed and toasted
across and across the Platz.  Thredoniacial hushed
tomes and even more beggars, lamp-lit but everything
was squelched, you know.
Wien Deutsch is definitely Sud Deutsch.  On the way
back (but to where) stopped in M?nchen for the night. 
My heart stopped - not me - at Rohrbach, for Frau
Schweinimaus lives there, einen kleinen Romantischen
Frau mit drei Gro?en Hunds. 


		
__________________________________
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From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 11:00:15 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:00:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4120CBFF.4000303@ix.netcom.com>

Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he could bad enough to be 
Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this insatnce, its a fait accompli of 
talentlessness.

I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to come purchase his library 
of books. He said he had planned to write an Encyclopedia by himself, 
but was now old and had never gotten around to it. The books were 
dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the eccenticity of it it all was 
worthy of Herzog.

I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys discussed Def poetry 
before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
"Poetry is like just before it rains, really hard." Scan that, Ms. 
Perloff. CP

Paul Murphy wrote:

>I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>pleasantly surprised.
>On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>PM
>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>So is the University of California publication
>>listing a dummy listing?
>>
>>I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another
>>fraud after the 
>>Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud
>>with poetry of such 
>>poor quality? Just asking.
>>
>>Does show you one of the unintended negative
>>consequences of accepting 
>>all this rotten poetry in exchange for some national
>>or international 
>>sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a 
>>campesino and boom 
>>automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump
>>nostalgic 
>>midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural
>>anomaly thrown in, it 
>>gains acceptance no matter how marginal all of them,
>>especially the 
>>trivializers here in America are.
>>
>>And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with
>>show biz names, what 
>>do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) Simmons
>>Def Poetry  ----  
>>on HBO? CP
>> 
>>Paul Murphy wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
>>>      
>>>
>>thought
>>    
>>
>>>the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>>>The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>>>Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
>>>doing with us?
>>>PM
>>>--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
>>>>        
>>>>
>>himself
>>    
>>
>>>>says just under my name that he and Gander wrote
>>>>        
>>>>
>>it
>>    
>>
>>>>together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Kent
>>    
>>
>>>>since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
>>>>taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>>>information, 
>>>>
>>>>Anny
>>>> From: Gabriel Gudding 
>>>> To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
>>>>        
>>>>
>>;
>>    
>>
>>>>New Poetry 
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
>>>>Johnson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
>>>>Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are
>>>>        
>>>>
>>CO-translators
>>    
>>
>>>>of Jaime Saenz.
>>>>
>>>> Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
>>>>they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
>>>>translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
>>>>the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
>>>>Translation award.
>>>>
>>>> Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared
>>>>        
>>>>
>>in
>>    
>>
>>>>the great and internationally known magazine
>>>>MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
>>>>
>>>> It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET. 
>>>>
>>>> Gabe
>>>>
>>>> At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   I am forwarding this interesting and colored
>>>>trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list, 
>>>>    
>>>>   Anny
>>>>    
>>>>   "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes
>>>>        
>>>>
>>from
>>    
>>
>>>>Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>>>>   collaboration between Forrest Gander and me,
>>>>        
>>>>
>>is
>>    
>>
>>>>newly available at
>>>>   Jacket #25
>>>>
>>>>    http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>>>>
>>>>   The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
>>>>Paz and environs, in
>>>>   search of the ghost of the singularly strange
>>>>and brilliant poet, Jaime
>>>>   Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
>>>>historical and contemporary.
>>>>   Hope some of you will take a look!
>>>>
>>>>   Kent
>>>>  
>>>>        
>>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>    
>>
>>>>   New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>  
>>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>    
>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>		
>>>__________________________________
>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>>>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>	
>		
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 12:29:18 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:29:18 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4120CBFF.4000303@ix.netcom.com>
References: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
	<4120CBFF.4000303@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <4120E0DE.9070408@ix.netcom.com>

Well, let me take a break from packing books in this sweltering basement 
and offer a thought or two. When I watch Def Comedy Jam, which I do on 
occasion until I can't stand the the predictability of the inflections 
or solipsistic banality of the subject matter anymore, I'm reminded of 
the twin revolutions of the sixties---Civil Rights and the Anti-War 
Movement.

The Civil rights movement saw economic advancement and parity as a 
characteristic of the success of their  'revolutionary' movement. So 
anti-materialism was never as much a factor in the civil rights movement 
as it was in the anti-war movement where people often already in 
possession of economic comfort saw its rejection as 'revolutionary.'

Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand Russell Simmons is a 
clothes designer and certainly both the poets and the audience have 
taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways which reflect taste and 
money within the cultural setting. The perfection is so obvious it 
becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but for the kind of 
grittiness that informed the blues where its protagnonists really had 
something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to be in by saying your 
out in a way a major entertainment venue won't take seriously. No one 
will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on themselves and light it. 
Further, the poets, whose text sound like personalized monologues for 
high school auditions, have voice coaches and in some cases agents, 
hoping to follow the train of comics into mainstream entertainment.

Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by capitalist culture of 
raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an earnest atempt at a new 
mode of expression. Or is the culture already such, no matter its 
economic or ethnic roots, that no cooption is necessary, that an agent 
for change now means the 48 behind  $348,819.48.

R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:

> Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he could bad enough to 
> be Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this insatnce, its a fait 
> accompli of talentlessness.
>
> I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to come purchase his 
> library of books. He said he had planned to write an Encyclopedia by 
> himself, but was now old and had never gotten around to it. The books 
> were dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the eccenticity of it it 
> all was worthy of Herzog.
>
> I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys discussed Def poetry 
> before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
> "Poetry is like just before it rains, really hard." Scan that, Ms. 
> Perloff. CP
>
> Paul Murphy wrote:
>
>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>> pleasantly surprised.
>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>> PM
>> --- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> So is the University of California publication
>>> listing a dummy listing?
>>>
>>> I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another
>>> fraud after the Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud
>>> with poetry of such poor quality? Just asking.
>>>
>>> Does show you one of the unintended negative
>>> consequences of accepting all this rotten poetry in exchange for 
>>> some national
>>> or international sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a 
>>> campesino and boom automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump
>>> nostalgic midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural
>>> anomaly thrown in, it gains acceptance no matter how marginal all of 
>>> them,
>>> especially the trivializers here in America are.
>>>
>>> And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with
>>> show biz names, what do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) 
>>> Simmons
>>> Def Poetry  ----  on HBO? CP
>>>
>>> Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>> this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
>>>>     
>>>
>>> thought
>>>   
>>>
>>>> the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>>>> The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>>>> Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
>>>> doing with us?
>>>> PM
>>>> --- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>> Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> himself
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> says just under my name that he and Gander wrote
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> it
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> Kent
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
>>>>> taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>>>> information,
>>>>> Anny
>>>>> From: Gabriel Gudding To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> ;
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> New Poetry Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
>>>>> Johnson
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
>>>>> Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> CO-translators
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> of Jaime Saenz.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
>>>>> they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
>>>>> translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
>>>>> the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
>>>>> Translation award.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> in
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> the great and internationally known magazine
>>>>> MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET.
>>>>> Gabe
>>>>>
>>>>> At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   I am forwarding this interesting and colored
>>>>> trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list,      Anny
>>>>>      "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> from
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>>>>>   collaboration between Forrest Gander and me,
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> is
>>>   
>>>
>>>>> newly available at
>>>>>   Jacket #25
>>>>>
>>>>>    http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>   The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
>>>>> Paz and environs, in
>>>>>   search of the ghost of the singularly strange
>>>>> and brilliant poet, Jaime
>>>>>   Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
>>>>> historical and contemporary.
>>>>>   Hope some of you will take a look!
>>>>>
>>>>>   Kent
>>>>>  
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>   
>>>
>>>>>   New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>  
>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>   
>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>    
>>>>>>         
>>>>>
>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>       
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>> __________________________________
>>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>>> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>>>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>        
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>  
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 12:58:59 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:58:59 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4120E0DE.9070408@ix.netcom.com>
References: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>	<4120CBFF.4000303@ix.netcom.com>
	<4120E0DE.9070408@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <4120E7D3.6040405@ix.netcom.com>

Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded. Sent by accident. CP

R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:

> Well, let me take a break from packing books in this sweltering 
> basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch Def Comedy Jam, 
> which I do on occasion until I can't stand the the predictability of 
> the inflections or solipsistic banality of the subject matter anymore, 
> I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the sixties---Civil Rights and 
> the Anti-War Movement.
>
> The Civil rights movement saw economic advancement and parity as a 
> characteristic of the success of their  'revolutionary' movement. So 
> anti-materialism was never as much a factor in the civil rights 
> movement as it was in the anti-war movement where people often already 
> in possession of economic comfort saw its rejection as 'revolutionary.'
>
> Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand Russell Simmons is a 
> clothes designer and certainly both the poets and the audience have 
> taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways which reflect taste and 
> money within the cultural setting. The perfection is so obvious it 
> becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but for the kind of 
> grittiness that informed the blues where its protagnonists really had 
> something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to be in by saying your 
> out in a way a major entertainment venue won't take seriously. No one 
> will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on themselves and light 
> it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like personalized monologues 
> for high school auditions, have voice coaches and in some cases 
> agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into mainstream 
> entertainment.
>
> Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by capitalist culture of 
> raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an earnest atempt at a new 
> mode of expression. Or is the culture already such, no matter its 
> economic or ethnic roots, that no cooption is necessary, that an agent 
> for change now means the 48 behind  $348,819.48.
>
> R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
>
>> Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he could bad enough to 
>> be Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this insatnce, its a fait 
>> accompli of talentlessness.
>>
>> I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to come purchase his 
>> library of books. He said he had planned to write an Encyclopedia by 
>> himself, but was now old and had never gotten around to it. The books 
>> were dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the eccenticity of it it 
>> all was worthy of Herzog.
>>
>> I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys discussed Def poetry 
>> before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
>> "Poetry is like just before it rains, really hard." Scan that, Ms. 
>> Perloff. CP
>>
>> Paul Murphy wrote:
>>
>>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>>> pleasantly surprised.
>>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>>> PM
>>> --- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>> So is the University of California publication
>>>> listing a dummy listing?
>>>>
>>>> I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of another
>>>> fraud after the Yasusada debacle. Would they publish such a fraud
>>>> with poetry of such poor quality? Just asking.
>>>>
>>>> Does show you one of the unintended negative
>>>> consequences of accepting all this rotten poetry in exchange for 
>>>> some national
>>>> or international sentimental syndicalism. A Japanese survivor; a 
>>>> campesino and boom automatically if the poetry sounds like some plump
>>>> nostalgic midwesterner wrote it with an occasional cultural
>>>> anomaly thrown in, it gains acceptance no matter how marginal all 
>>>> of them,
>>>> especially the trivializers here in America are.
>>>>
>>>> And while were on the topic of rotten poetry with
>>>> show biz names, what do people on this list think of  Robert(sic) 
>>>> Simmons
>>>> Def Poetry  ----  on HBO? CP
>>>>
>>>> Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
>>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> thought
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>>>>> The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>>>>> Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is currently
>>>>> doing with us?
>>>>> PM
>>>>> --- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> himself
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> says just under my name that he and Gander wrote
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> it
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> together, I hate repetitions. I only mentioned
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Kent
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> since the message is signed by him. But thanks for
>>>>>> taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>>>>> information,
>>>>>> Anny
>>>>>> From: Gabriel Gudding To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & 
>>>>>> Views
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ;
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> New Poetry Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent
>>>>>> Johnson
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anny -- Kent didn't go alone: he went there with
>>>>>> Forrest Gander. Forrest and Kent are
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> CO-translators
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> of Jaime Saenz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kent told me how much of that report in JACKET
>>>>>> they each wrote: it's a half and half deal. Their
>>>>>> translation of THE NIGHT (the next installment of
>>>>>> the Saenz poems) just won the prestigious PEN
>>>>>> Translation award.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of this work from THE NIGHT just appeared
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> the great and internationally known magazine
>>>>>> MANDORLA: NEUVA ESCRITURA DE LAS AMERICAS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a fascinating piece, the piece in JACKET.
>>>>>> Gabe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 04:26 PM 8/15/2004, Anny Ballardini wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   I am forwarding this interesting and colored
>>>>>> trip by Kent Johnson to Bolivia to the list,      Anny
>>>>>>      "Some Days in the Life of The Night: Notes
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> from
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> Bolivia, June 20-30," a
>>>>>>   collaboration between Forrest Gander and me,
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> is
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>> newly available at
>>>>>>   Jacket #25
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    http://jacketmagazine.com/25/index.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   The piece is a journal of our wanderings in La
>>>>>> Paz and environs, in
>>>>>>   search of the ghost of the singularly strange
>>>>>> and brilliant poet, Jaime
>>>>>>   Saenz. There are lots of photos, too, both
>>>>>> historical and contemporary.
>>>>>>   Hope some of you will take a look!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Kent
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>>   New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>>>   New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        __________________________________
>>>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>>>> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>>>>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>            __________________________________
>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
>>> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From gmguddi  Mon Aug 16 16:58:23 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:58:23 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>
	<20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>

Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted to touch on yr word 
"fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than all that: the 
Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too tongue-in-cheek to be fraudulent 
--  but a giant and genuine question -- and not so much a question about 
WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone else etc etc,but a question about WHAT. The 
"Who" part of the author stuff, for me, was a brief shockwave in the 
Yasusuda affair: I think the aftershocks, for me, are more of the WHAT 
variety: what is the nature of literary reverence, author function, poetry 
as cultural commentary, the means by which cultural capital is condition, 
compounded -- and ultimately -- confounded.

And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and Kent, both real people, 
are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime Saenz, referenced by many other 
writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found" -- locatable -- in libraries.

Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something (I think) that subtends 
all writing -- and I find myself grateful that every so often at least we 
are able to "question" the works before us -- question not just their 
aesthetic texture and viability, but their relations to real people, real 
ideas, and felt situations. I think this has been a great gift to this age 
-- and I thank whoever it was that shoved it under our noses.

But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift, is of a more "traditional" 
variety: a straight-up translation gig.

gabe

At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
>I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>pleasantly surprised.
>On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>PM





From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 16:49:21 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:49:21 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>
References: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>	<20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
	<6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <41211DD1.9040201@ix.netcom.com>

Nah. They're frauds. And done for the same venal reasons any hustler 
might bring into play, say at def poetry or the State Department, no 
matter how purdy you talk 'em up. It's called an angle or spin. CP

Gabriel Gudding wrote:

> Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted to touch on yr word 
> "fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than all that: 
> the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too tongue-in-cheek to be 
> fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question -- and not so much a 
> question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone else etc etc,but a 
> question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author stuff, for me, was a 
> brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think the aftershocks, for 
> me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the nature of literary 
> reverence, author function, poetry as cultural commentary, the means 
> by which cultural capital is condition, compounded -- and ultimately 
> -- confounded.
>
> And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and Kent, both real 
> people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime Saenz, referenced by many 
> other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found" -- locatable -- in 
> libraries.
>
> Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something (I think) that 
> subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful that every so often 
> at least we are able to "question" the works before us -- question not 
> just their aesthetic texture and viability, but their relations to 
> real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I think this has been a 
> great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it was that shoved it 
> under our noses.
>
> But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift, is of a more 
> "traditional" variety: a straight-up translation gig.
>
> gabe
>
> At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
>
>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>> pleasantly surprised.
>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>> PM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From alphavil  Mon Aug 16 17:10:20 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:10:20 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>
References: <4120BD34.80609@ix.netcom.com>	<20040816144939.14381.qmail@web40412.mail.yahoo.com>
	<6.0.3.0.2.20040816154445.02926d90@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <412122BC.9090504@ix.netcom.com>

Let me add that its fraud and a liars charm that keeps Kent rockin' the 
tiny tub of poetry. He's so pixy/pucksy disingenuous. Anytime you hear 
him or others refer to his frauds as legitimate, serious, genuine, 
original or not a complex charade, you're automatically disinterested 
and disappointed. That's what everybody else is for. Given the kind of 
corn field earnestness that drives so much crap nowadays, Kent's a hoot. 
A lousy poet, but never boring except when he's trying to write in the 
tone of Forrest Gander or Yasusada or Jaime Saenz. Check out that piece 
of crap about his son and he fishing. Kent's strength is in obliquely 
ridiculing poetry. And its his most genuine personality trait.

You're gonna fuck up his game if you try the verbal academic canard 
thing, the way you fuck up say Taggart trying to use the Langpo dress 
pattern. CP  

Gabriel Gudding wrote:

> Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted to touch on yr word 
> "fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than all that: 
> the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too tongue-in-cheek to be 
> fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question -- and not so much a 
> question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone else etc etc,but a 
> question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author stuff, for me, was a 
> brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think the aftershocks, for 
> me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the nature of literary 
> reverence, author function, poetry as cultural commentary, the means 
> by which cultural capital is condition, compounded -- and ultimately 
> -- confounded.
>
> And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and Kent, both real 
> people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime Saenz, referenced by many 
> other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found" -- locatable -- in 
> libraries.
>
> Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something (I think) that 
> subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful that every so often 
> at least we are able to "question" the works before us -- question not 
> just their aesthetic texture and viability, but their relations to 
> real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I think this has been a 
> great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it was that shoved it 
> under our noses.
>
> But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift, is of a more 
> "traditional" variety: a straight-up translation gig.
>
> gabe
>
> At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
>
>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to be
>> pleasantly surprised.
>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try to
>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>> PM
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>



From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 05:58:56 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 02:58:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <41211DD1.9040201@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040817095856.64710.qmail@web40410.mail.yahoo.com>

so Kent is able to formulate 2 questions beginning
with ?wh?...
wh next?
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> Nah. They're frauds. And done for the same venal
> reasons any hustler 
> might bring into play, say at def poetry or the
> State Department, no 
> matter how purdy you talk 'em up. It's called an
> angle or spin. CP
> 
> Gabriel Gudding wrote:
> 
> > Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted
> to touch on yr word 
> > "fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more
> complicated than all that: 
> > the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too
> tongue-in-cheek to be 
> > fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question --
> and not so much a 
> > question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone
> else etc etc,but a 
> > question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author
> stuff, for me, was a 
> > brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think
> the aftershocks, for 
> > me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the
> nature of literary 
> > reverence, author function, poetry as cultural
> commentary, the means 
> > by which cultural capital is condition, compounded
> -- and ultimately 
> > -- confounded.
> >
> > And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and
> Kent, both real 
> > people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime
> Saenz, referenced by many 
> > other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found"
> -- locatable -- in 
> > libraries.
> >
> > Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something
> (I think) that 
> > subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful
> that every so often 
> > at least we are able to "question" the works
> before us -- question not 
> > just their aesthetic texture and viability, but
> their relations to 
> > real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I
> think this has been a 
> > great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it
> was that shoved it 
> > under our noses.
> >
> > But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift,
> is of a more 
> > "traditional" variety: a straight-up translation
> gig.
> >
> > gabe
> >
> > At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
> >
> >> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to
> be
> >> pleasantly surprised.
> >> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
> >> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
> >> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
> to
> >> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
> >> PM
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 06:02:14 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:02:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <412122BC.9090504@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040817100214.75777.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>

I?m sick of seriousness. I lost all belief in it when
meeting John Heath-Stubbs in London for the first
time.  That?s why I came to Berlin.  Now I am
surrounded by the ghosts of all the people he talks
about so irrelevantly.  People like TS Auden, James
Isherwood, William Joyce, Francis Stuart.  Can anyone
tell me why Stuart wasn?t hung after WW2?  
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> Let me add that its fraud and a liars charm that
> keeps Kent rockin' the 
> tiny tub of poetry. He's so pixy/pucksy
> disingenuous. Anytime you hear 
> him or others refer to his frauds as legitimate,
> serious, genuine, 
> original or not a complex charade, you're
> automatically disinterested 
> and disappointed. That's what everybody else is for.
> Given the kind of 
> corn field earnestness that drives so much crap
> nowadays, Kent's a hoot. 
> A lousy poet, but never boring except when he's
> trying to write in the 
> tone of Forrest Gander or Yasusada or Jaime Saenz.
> Check out that piece 
> of crap about his son and he fishing. Kent's
> strength is in obliquely 
> ridiculing poetry. And its his most genuine
> personality trait.
> 
> You're gonna fuck up his game if you try the verbal
> academic canard 
> thing, the way you fuck up say Taggart trying to use
> the Langpo dress 
> pattern. CP  
> 
> Gabriel Gudding wrote:
> 
> > Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted
> to touch on yr word 
> > "fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more
> complicated than all that: 
> > the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too
> tongue-in-cheek to be 
> > fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question --
> and not so much a 
> > question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone
> else etc etc,but a 
> > question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author
> stuff, for me, was a 
> > brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think
> the aftershocks, for 
> > me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the
> nature of literary 
> > reverence, author function, poetry as cultural
> commentary, the means 
> > by which cultural capital is condition, compounded
> -- and ultimately 
> > -- confounded.
> >
> > And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and
> Kent, both real 
> > people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime
> Saenz, referenced by many 
> > other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found"
> -- locatable -- in 
> > libraries.
> >
> > Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something
> (I think) that 
> > subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful
> that every so often 
> > at least we are able to "question" the works
> before us -- question not 
> > just their aesthetic texture and viability, but
> their relations to 
> > real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I
> think this has been a 
> > great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it
> was that shoved it 
> > under our noses.
> >
> > But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift,
> is of a more 
> > "traditional" variety: a straight-up translation
> gig.
> >
> > gabe
> >
> > At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
> >
> >> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to
> be
> >> pleasantly surprised.
> >> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
> >> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
> >> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
> to
> >> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
> >> PM
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New-Poetry mailing list
> > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 06:06:28 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4120E7D3.6040405@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>

this is the worst writing of all time.  Have your air
conditioning checked, you may be having difficulty
breathing.  If you suddenly asphixiate try to release
oxygen by bending your right leg around your neck and
gently squeezing.  Then put a bin bag over your head,
pretend to masturbate vigorously and hopefully by this
time the emergency services will have arrived.  Then
(hopefully) you?ll be on a life section, deprived of
access to the internet and thereby unable to
perpetrate anymore of this dismal verbal anal
retentiveness.
PM
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded. Sent
> by accident. CP
> 
> R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
> 
> > Well, let me take a break from packing books in
> this sweltering 
> > basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch
> Def Comedy Jam, 
> > which I do on occasion until I can't stand the the
> predictability of 
> > the inflections or solipsistic banality of the
> subject matter anymore, 
> > I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the
> sixties---Civil Rights and 
> > the Anti-War Movement.
> >
> > The Civil rights movement saw economic advancement
> and parity as a 
> > characteristic of the success of their 
> 'revolutionary' movement. So 
> > anti-materialism was never as much a factor in the
> civil rights 
> > movement as it was in the anti-war movement where
> people often already 
> > in possession of economic comfort saw its
> rejection as 'revolutionary.'
> >
> > Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand
> Russell Simmons is a 
> > clothes designer and certainly both the poets and
> the audience have 
> > taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways
> which reflect taste and 
> > money within the cultural setting. The perfection
> is so obvious it 
> > becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but
> for the kind of 
> > grittiness that informed the blues where its
> protagnonists really had 
> > something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to
> be in by saying your 
> > out in a way a major entertainment venue won't
> take seriously. No one 
> > will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on
> themselves and light 
> > it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like
> personalized monologues 
> > for high school auditions, have voice coaches and
> in some cases 
> > agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into
> mainstream 
> > entertainment.
> >
> > Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by
> capitalist culture of 
> > raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an
> earnest atempt at a new 
> > mode of expression. Or is the culture already
> such, no matter its 
> > economic or ethnic roots, that no cooption is
> necessary, that an agent 
> > for change now means the 48 behind  $348,819.48.
> >
> > R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
> >
> >> Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he
> could bad enough to 
> >> be Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this
> insatnce, its a fait 
> >> accompli of talentlessness.
> >>
> >> I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to
> come purchase his 
> >> library of books. He said he had planned to write
> an Encyclopedia by 
> >> himself, but was now old and had never gotten
> around to it. The books 
> >> were dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the
> eccenticity of it it 
> >> all was worthy of Herzog.
> >>
> >> I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys
> discussed Def poetry 
> >> before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
> >> "Poetry is like just before it rains, really
> hard." Scan that, Ms. 
> >> Perloff. CP
> >>
> >> Paul Murphy wrote:
> >>
> >>> I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait
> to be
> >>> pleasantly surprised.
> >>> On holiday here in Berlin and just found a
> cinema
> >>> showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
> >>> Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
> to
> >>> perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
> >>> PM
> >>> --- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli"
> <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>> So is the University of California publication
> >>>> listing a dummy listing?
> >>>>
> >>>> I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of
> another
> >>>> fraud after the Yasusada debacle. Would they
> publish such a fraud
> >>>> with poetry of such poor quality? Just asking.
> >>>>
> >>>> Does show you one of the unintended negative
> >>>> consequences of accepting all this rotten
> poetry in exchange for 
> >>>> some national
> >>>> or international sentimental syndicalism. A
> Japanese survivor; a 
> >>>> campesino and boom automatically if the poetry
> sounds like some plump
> >>>> nostalgic midwesterner wrote it with an
> occasional cultural
> >>>> anomaly thrown in, it gains acceptance no
> matter how marginal all 
> >>>> of them,
> >>>> especially the trivializers here in America
> are.
> >>>>
> >>>> And while were on the topic of rotten poetry
> with
> >>>> show biz names, what do people on this list
> think of  Robert(sic) 
> >>>> Simmons
> >>>> Def Poetry  ----  on HBO? CP
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul Murphy wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
> >>>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> thought
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>> the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
> >>>>> The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
> >>>>> Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is
> currently
> >>>>> doing with us?
> >>>>> PM
> >>>>> --- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> himself
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>>> says just under my name that he and Gander
> wrote
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> it
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>>> together, I hate repetitions. I only
> mentioned
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Kent
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>>> since the message is signed by him. But
> thanks for
> >>>>>> taking your time and for giving all kinds of
> >>>>>> information,
> >>>>>> Anny
> >>>>>> From: Gabriel Gudding To: NewPoetry:
> Contemporary Poetry News & 
> >>>>>> Views
> >>>>>>       
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> ;
> >>>>  
> >>>>
> >>>>>> New Poetry Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004
> 11:42 
=== message truncated ===



		
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From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 06:52:41 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:52:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Daimler City\Sony Centre
In-Reply-To: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040817105241.13643.qmail@web40403.mail.yahoo.com>

these are 2 complexes of tall buildings nr Potsdamer
Platz.  The wall intersected through this area, indeed
small sections have been preserved.  It seems to have
been built with steel skeleton filled with concrete, a
very typical process of manufacture.  Joseph Beuys
famously remarked that the wall was 18 inches too low.
 The buildings in the area are gargantuan structures
filled with glass.  There is no intimation of a war
against terror for the buildings seem built with
terrorists in mind so seemingly vulnerable they are to
bombs & Co.  However I noticed that there is a visible
checkpoint and low walls nr the American Embassy and
the British Embassy is blocked off too.  I walked down
the street where the British Embassy is and a
policeman seemed to be having some incredible
incantation.  I stopped and watched him for 2 minutes.
 I think he must have been saying some old Indian
prayer, the one that begins ?getta me out of here...?
So, here I am undermining national security and blowng
holes through the war against terror.  Another thing
to say is that Berlin is just incredibly cheap.  In
fact it is possible to live here on practically
nothing, in fact nothing is a great deal in Berlin, a
poor city compared with other Western European
national capitals.  Because of the relatively late
entry of Germany into the hall of nations (also the
name of my hotel), its easy to see how a whacko
provincial movement of crackbrained one-idea loonatics
could have pre-empted my attempt at a coup.  (namely
running past Daimler City with a red flag, joost like
that bit in ?Modern Times?....)
PM  


	
		
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From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 08:48:30 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 05:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Dritten Reich
In-Reply-To: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040817124830.97874.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>

I forgot, in Germany a great deal of political
correctness circulates about the Dritten Reich.  If
Germans are now so politically correct about their
past, why didn?t they prevent the Dritten Reich?  Is
it possibly because they were defeated?  If it takes
political defeat to make embarrassment, it can?t
really be a very profound embarrassment since
presumably if the Dritten Reich had won - but then
questions like that are meaningless really.  To my
mind Hitler was just as capable a politician as
Churchill, Roosevelt and possibly more so than Stalin.
 And if you want evidence of their human rights
abuses, then they aren?t difficult to find because
their acts stain the conscience of humanity
everywhere, from Ireland to India, from South Africa
to Mexico, from Siberia to Georgia.  What are we left
with then?  Might is right?  Nazi Germany was defeated
because it was militarily not morally weaker and
N?rnburg is the perfect example of victor?s justice. 
We could move onto a world without force and that can
only be achieved through new technological and
scientific discoveries, something that would give
every person on the planet their personal hydrogen
bomb.  Then who would be brave enough to use it since
it would mean mutually assured destruction?  Just
underlines the perfect futility of hatred, doesn?t it?
PM


		
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From alphavil  Tue Aug 17 08:19:38 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:19:38 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040817100214.75777.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817100214.75777.qmail@web40406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4121F7DA.7060205@ix.netcom.com>

<I?m sick of seriousness.>

The news of your illness has sent shockwaves through the colonies. CP



Paul Murphy wrote:

>I?m sick of seriousness. I lost all belief in it when
>meeting John Heath-Stubbs in London for the first
>time.  That?s why I came to Berlin.  Now I am
>surrounded by the ghosts of all the people he talks
>about so irrelevantly.  People like TS Auden, James
>Isherwood, William Joyce, Francis Stuart.  Can anyone
>tell me why Stuart wasn?t hung after WW2?  
>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Let me add that its fraud and a liars charm that
>>keeps Kent rockin' the 
>>tiny tub of poetry. He's so pixy/pucksy
>>disingenuous. Anytime you hear 
>>him or others refer to his frauds as legitimate,
>>serious, genuine, 
>>original or not a complex charade, you're
>>automatically disinterested 
>>and disappointed. That's what everybody else is for.
>>Given the kind of 
>>corn field earnestness that drives so much crap
>>nowadays, Kent's a hoot. 
>>A lousy poet, but never boring except when he's
>>trying to write in the 
>>tone of Forrest Gander or Yasusada or Jaime Saenz.
>>Check out that piece 
>>of crap about his son and he fishing. Kent's
>>strength is in obliquely 
>>ridiculing poetry. And its his most genuine
>>personality trait.
>>
>>You're gonna fuck up his game if you try the verbal
>>academic canard 
>>thing, the way you fuck up say Taggart trying to use
>>the Langpo dress 
>>pattern. CP  
>>
>>Gabriel Gudding wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hallo, Paul. Been enjoying your postcards. Wanted
>>>      
>>>
>>to touch on yr word 
>>    
>>
>>>"fraud" -- I'm afraid it's a little more
>>>      
>>>
>>complicated than all that: 
>>    
>>
>>>the Yasusada thing wasn't a fraud -- too
>>>      
>>>
>>tongue-in-cheek to be 
>>    
>>
>>>fraudulent --  but a giant and genuine question --
>>>      
>>>
>>and not so much a 
>>    
>>
>>>question about WHETHER Kent or WHETHER someone
>>>      
>>>
>>else etc etc,but a 
>>    
>>
>>>question about WHAT. The "Who" part of the author
>>>      
>>>
>>stuff, for me, was a 
>>    
>>
>>>brief shockwave in the Yasusuda affair: I think
>>>      
>>>
>>the aftershocks, for 
>>    
>>
>>>me, are more of the WHAT variety: what is the
>>>      
>>>
>>nature of literary 
>>    
>>
>>>reverence, author function, poetry as cultural
>>>      
>>>
>>commentary, the means 
>>    
>>
>>>by which cultural capital is condition, compounded
>>>      
>>>
>>-- and ultimately 
>>    
>>
>>>-- confounded.
>>>
>>>And the translations, by both Forrest Gander and
>>>      
>>>
>>Kent, both real 
>>    
>>
>>>people, are of a real -- dead -- poet, Jaime
>>>      
>>>
>>Saenz, referenced by many 
>>    
>>
>>>other writers, Bolivian, German, etc, and "found"
>>>      
>>>
>>-- locatable -- in 
>>    
>>
>>>libraries.
>>>
>>>Literary paranoia, if nothing else, is something
>>>      
>>>
>>(I think) that 
>>    
>>
>>>subtends all writing -- and I find myself grateful
>>>      
>>>
>>that every so often 
>>    
>>
>>>at least we are able to "question" the works
>>>      
>>>
>>before us -- question not 
>>    
>>
>>>just their aesthetic texture and viability, but
>>>      
>>>
>>their relations to 
>>    
>>
>>>real people, real ideas, and felt situations. I
>>>      
>>>
>>think this has been a 
>>    
>>
>>>great gift to this age -- and I thank whoever it
>>>      
>>>
>>was that shoved it 
>>    
>>
>>>under our noses.
>>>
>>>But Saenz, though a genuine and astounding gift,
>>>      
>>>
>>is of a more 
>>    
>>
>>>"traditional" variety: a straight-up translation
>>>      
>>>
>>gig.
>>    
>>
>>>gabe
>>>
>>>At 09:49 AM 8/16/2004, Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>be
>>    
>>
>>>>pleasantly surprised.
>>>>On holiday here in Berlin and just found a cinema
>>>>showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>>>>Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
>>>>        
>>>>
>>to
>>    
>>
>>>>perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>>>>PM
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>New-Poetry mailing list
>>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
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>
>  
>



From alphavil  Tue Aug 17 08:26:08 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:26:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817100628.47218.qmail@web40405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4121F960.60607@ix.netcom.com>

<this is the worst writing of all time.>

You must have the latest Guinness. Mine lists a P. Murphy. I guess you failed to read the subsequent prohibition. Hope this didn't increase your delicate state as your banal suasions were transforming the colonies. Today, Newpoetry, tomorrow The New Yorker. CP 



Paul Murphy wrote:

>this is the worst writing of all time.  Have your air
>conditioning checked, you may be having difficulty
>breathing.  If you suddenly asphixiate try to release
>oxygen by bending your right leg around your neck and
>gently squeezing.  Then put a bin bag over your head,
>pretend to masturbate vigorously and hopefully by this
>time the emergency services will have arrived.  Then
>(hopefully) you?ll be on a life section, deprived of
>access to the internet and thereby unable to
>perpetrate anymore of this dismal verbal anal
>retentiveness.
>PM
>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded. Sent
>>by accident. CP
>>
>>R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Well, let me take a break from packing books in
>>>      
>>>
>>this sweltering 
>>    
>>
>>>basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch
>>>      
>>>
>>Def Comedy Jam, 
>>    
>>
>>>which I do on occasion until I can't stand the the
>>>      
>>>
>>predictability of 
>>    
>>
>>>the inflections or solipsistic banality of the
>>>      
>>>
>>subject matter anymore, 
>>    
>>
>>>I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the
>>>      
>>>
>>sixties---Civil Rights and 
>>    
>>
>>>the Anti-War Movement.
>>>
>>>The Civil rights movement saw economic advancement
>>>      
>>>
>>and parity as a 
>>    
>>
>>>characteristic of the success of their 
>>>      
>>>
>>'revolutionary' movement. So 
>>    
>>
>>>anti-materialism was never as much a factor in the
>>>      
>>>
>>civil rights 
>>    
>>
>>>movement as it was in the anti-war movement where
>>>      
>>>
>>people often already 
>>    
>>
>>>in possession of economic comfort saw its
>>>      
>>>
>>rejection as 'revolutionary.'
>>    
>>
>>>Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand
>>>      
>>>
>>Russell Simmons is a 
>>    
>>
>>>clothes designer and certainly both the poets and
>>>      
>>>
>>the audience have 
>>    
>>
>>>taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways
>>>      
>>>
>>which reflect taste and 
>>    
>>
>>>money within the cultural setting. The perfection
>>>      
>>>
>>is so obvious it 
>>    
>>
>>>becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but
>>>      
>>>
>>for the kind of 
>>    
>>
>>>grittiness that informed the blues where its
>>>      
>>>
>>protagnonists really had 
>>    
>>
>>>something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to
>>>      
>>>
>>be in by saying your 
>>    
>>
>>>out in a way a major entertainment venue won't
>>>      
>>>
>>take seriously. No one 
>>    
>>
>>>will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on
>>>      
>>>
>>themselves and light 
>>    
>>
>>>it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like
>>>      
>>>
>>personalized monologues 
>>    
>>
>>>for high school auditions, have voice coaches and
>>>      
>>>
>>in some cases 
>>    
>>
>>>agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into
>>>      
>>>
>>mainstream 
>>    
>>
>>>entertainment.
>>>
>>>Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by
>>>      
>>>
>>capitalist culture of 
>>    
>>
>>>raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an
>>>      
>>>
>>earnest atempt at a new 
>>    
>>
>>>mode of expression. Or is the culture already
>>>      
>>>
>>such, no matter its 
>>    
>>
>>>economic or ethnic roots, that no cooption is
>>>      
>>>
>>necessary, that an agent 
>>    
>>
>>>for change now means the 48 behind  $348,819.48.
>>>
>>>R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Well, from what I've read of Mr. Saenz so far he
>>>>        
>>>>
>>could bad enough to 
>>    
>>
>>>>be Kent's forger a la Borges. Only in this
>>>>        
>>>>
>>insatnce, its a fait 
>>    
>>
>>>>accompli of talentlessness.
>>>>
>>>>I do remember a Mateo Saenz. He called me  to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>come purchase his 
>>    
>>
>>>>library of books. He said he had planned to write
>>>>        
>>>>
>>an Encyclopedia by 
>>    
>>
>>>>himself, but was now old and had never gotten
>>>>        
>>>>
>>around to it. The books 
>>    
>>
>>>>were dreadful, dated, cheap compilations but the
>>>>        
>>>>
>>eccenticity of it it 
>>    
>>
>>>>all was worthy of Herzog.
>>>>
>>>>I remember, its "Russell" Simmons. Have you guys
>>>>        
>>>>
>>discussed Def poetry 
>>    
>>
>>>>before, or is it just beneath you to do so?
>>>>"Poetry is like just before it rains, really
>>>>        
>>>>
>>hard." Scan that, Ms. 
>>    
>>
>>>>Perloff. CP
>>>>
>>>>Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>I just assume that they?re all frauds and wait
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>to be
>>    
>>
>>>>>pleasantly surprised.
>>>>>On holiday here in Berlin and just found a
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>cinema
>>    
>>
>>>>>showing both Woyzeck and Fitzcarraldo tonight.
>>>>>Let?s make up a poet called Kent Johnson and try
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>to
>>    
>>
>>>>>perpetrate him - would anyone believe us?
>>>>>PM
>>>>>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli"
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>><alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>>    
>>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>So is the University of California publication
>>>>>>listing a dummy listing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I can't imagine they wouldn't be aware of
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>another
>>    
>>
>>>>>>fraud after the Yasusada debacle. Would they
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>publish such a fraud
>>    
>>
>>>>>>with poetry of such poor quality? Just asking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does show you one of the unintended negative
>>>>>>consequences of accepting all this rotten
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>poetry in exchange for 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>some national
>>>>>>or international sentimental syndicalism. A
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>Japanese survivor; a 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>campesino and boom automatically if the poetry
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>sounds like some plump
>>    
>>
>>>>>>nostalgic midwesterner wrote it with an
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>occasional cultural
>>    
>>
>>>>>>anomaly thrown in, it gains acceptance no
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>matter how marginal all 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>of them,
>>>>>>especially the trivializers here in America
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>are.
>>    
>>
>>>>>>And while were on the topic of rotten poetry
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>with
>>    
>>
>>>>>>show biz names, what do people on this list
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>think of  Robert(sic) 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>Simmons
>>>>>>Def Poetry  ----  on HBO? CP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Paul Murphy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>this is another poet that Kent has made up.  I
>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>thought
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>the bit about the leg under the bed - well...
>>>>>>>The Bolivian Hitler Youth?
>>>>>>>Perhaps Kent would share the drug he is
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>currently
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>doing with us?
>>>>>>>PM
>>>>>>>--- Anny Ballardini <anny.ballardini at tin.it>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Oh yes, I didn't explain further since Kent
>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>himself
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>says just under my name that he and Gander
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>wrote
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>it
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>together, I hate repetitions. I only
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>mentioned
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Kent
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>since the message is signed by him. But
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>thanks for
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>taking your time and for giving all kinds of
>>>>>>>>information,
>>>>>>>>Anny
>>>>>>>>From: Gabriel Gudding To: NewPoetry:
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>Contemporary Poetry News & 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>Views
>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>;
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>New Poetry Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>11:42 
>>    
>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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>_______________________________________________
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>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From clitophon  Tue Aug 17 09:01:20 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 06:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <4121F960.60607@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040817130120.43699.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>

so instead of being given a life section you?ve been
made the Mayor of New York!
well, I won?t tell anyone (about the bin bag...)
--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> <this is the worst writing of all time.>
> 
> You must have the latest Guinness. Mine lists a P.
> Murphy. I guess you failed to read the subsequent
> prohibition. Hope this didn't increase your delicate
> state as your banal suasions were transforming the
> colonies. Today, Newpoetry, tomorrow The New Yorker.
> CP 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Murphy wrote:
> 
> >this is the worst writing of all time.  Have your
> air
> >conditioning checked, you may be having difficulty
> >breathing.  If you suddenly asphixiate try to
> release
> >oxygen by bending your right leg around your neck
> and
> >gently squeezing.  Then put a bin bag over your
> head,
> >pretend to masturbate vigorously and hopefully by
> this
> >time the emergency services will have arrived. 
> Then
> >(hopefully) you?ll be on a life section, deprived
> of
> >access to the internet and thereby unable to
> >perpetrate anymore of this dismal verbal anal
> >retentiveness.
> >PM
> >--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded.
> Sent
> >>by accident. CP
> >>
> >>R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Well, let me take a break from packing books in
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>this sweltering 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Def Comedy Jam, 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>which I do on occasion until I can't stand the
> the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>predictability of 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>the inflections or solipsistic banality of the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>subject matter anymore, 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>sixties---Civil Rights and 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>the Anti-War Movement.
> >>>
> >>>The Civil rights movement saw economic
> advancement
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>and parity as a 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>characteristic of the success of their 
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>'revolutionary' movement. So 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>anti-materialism was never as much a factor in
> the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>civil rights 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>movement as it was in the anti-war movement where
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>people often already 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>in possession of economic comfort saw its
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>rejection as 'revolutionary.'
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Russell Simmons is a 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>clothes designer and certainly both the poets and
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>the audience have 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>which reflect taste and 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>money within the cultural setting. The perfection
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>is so obvious it 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>for the kind of 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>grittiness that informed the blues where its
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>protagnonists really had 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>be in by saying your 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>out in a way a major entertainment venue won't
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>take seriously. No one 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>themselves and light 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>personalized monologues 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>for high school auditions, have voice coaches and
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>in some cases 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>mainstream 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>entertainment.
> >>>
> >>>Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>capitalist culture of 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>earnest atempt at a new 
> >>    
> >>
> >>>mode of expression. Or is the culture already
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>such, no matter its 
> >>    
> 
=== message truncated ===



		
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From alphavil  Tue Aug 17 09:00:56 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:00:56 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Jaime Saenz by Kent Johnson
In-Reply-To: <20040817130120.43699.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040817130120.43699.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41220188.1010003@ix.netcom.com>

Ah! The twin fangs of NY are no more!
But their spirits stab on in their illustrious mayor.
---Colonel 'Pop' Buell

Paul Murphy wrote:

>so instead of being given a life section you?ve been
>made the Mayor of New York!
>well, I won?t tell anyone (about the bin bag...)
>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>wrote:
>
>  
>
>><this is the worst writing of all time.>
>>
>>You must have the latest Guinness. Mine lists a P.
>>Murphy. I guess you failed to read the subsequent
>>prohibition. Hope this didn't increase your delicate
>>state as your banal suasions were transforming the
>>colonies. Today, Newpoetry, tomorrow The New Yorker.
>>CP 
>>
>>
>>
>>Paul Murphy wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>this is the worst writing of all time.  Have your
>>>      
>>>
>>air
>>    
>>
>>>conditioning checked, you may be having difficulty
>>>breathing.  If you suddenly asphixiate try to
>>>      
>>>
>>release
>>    
>>
>>>oxygen by bending your right leg around your neck
>>>      
>>>
>>and
>>    
>>
>>>gently squeezing.  Then put a bin bag over your
>>>      
>>>
>>head,
>>    
>>
>>>pretend to masturbate vigorously and hopefully by
>>>      
>>>
>>this
>>    
>>
>>>time the emergency services will have arrived. 
>>>      
>>>
>>Then
>>    
>>
>>>(hopefully) you?ll be on a life section, deprived
>>>      
>>>
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>access to the internet and thereby unable to
>>>perpetrate anymore of this dismal verbal anal
>>>retentiveness.
>>>PM
>>>--- "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" <alphavil at ix.netcom.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Ignore previous email. Unfinished. Longwinded.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Sent
>>    
>>
>>>>by accident. CP
>>>>
>>>>R.Gancie/C.Parcelli wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Well, let me take a break from packing books in
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>this sweltering 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>basement and offer a thought or two. When I watch
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Def Comedy Jam, 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>which I do on occasion until I can't stand the
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>predictability of 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>the inflections or solipsistic banality of the
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>subject matter anymore, 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>I'm reminded of the twin revolutions of the
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>sixties---Civil Rights and 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>the Anti-War Movement.
>>>>>
>>>>>The Civil rights movement saw economic
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>advancement
>>    
>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>and parity as a 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>characteristic of the success of their 
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>'revolutionary' movement. So 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>anti-materialism was never as much a factor in
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>the
>>    
>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>civil rights 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>movement as it was in the anti-war movement where
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>people often already 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>in possession of economic comfort saw its
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>rejection as 'revolutionary.'
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Now, I'm no expert on clothing, but I understand
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Russell Simmons is a 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>clothes designer and certainly both the poets and
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>the audience have 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>taken great pains to outfit themselves in ways
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>which reflect taste and 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>money within the cultural setting. The perfection
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>is so obvious it 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>becomes grotesque parody not only for itself but
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>for the kind of 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>grittiness that informed the blues where its
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>protagnonists really had 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>something to whine about. The 'revolution' is to
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>be in by saying your 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>out in a way a major entertainment venue won't
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>take seriously. No one 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>will come out onto the stage, pour gasoline on
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>themselves and light 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>it. Further, the poets, whose text sound like
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>personalized monologues 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>for high school auditions, have voice coaches and
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>in some cases 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>agents, hoping to follow the train of comics into
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>mainstream 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>entertainment.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this simply another easy, breezy cooption by
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>capitalist culture of 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>raw pseudo-poetic expression that began as an
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>earnest atempt at a new 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>mode of expression. Or is the culture already
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>such, no matter its 
>>>>   
>>>>        
>>>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>		
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From grahamd  Tue Aug 17 13:55:18 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:55:18 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bosh & Flapdoodle
Message-ID: <BD47B0B6.A934%grahamd@ripon.edu>

A. R. Ammons fans should surf on over to Poetry Daily, where a
mini-symposium is in progress, featuring previously unpublished poems.
Excerpts from a tribute issue of *Epoch*, the feature includes 3 poems plus
commentary by Robert Morgan, Alice Fulton, and Roger Gilbert.

http://www.poems.com/essaammo.htm

Also included is the wonderful news of a forthcoming posthumous Ammons
volume with the most Ammonsy title *Bosh and Flapdoodle*.

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From gmguddi  Tue Aug 17 18:10:02 2004
From: gmguddi (Gabriel Gudding)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:10:02 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Bosh & Flapdoodle
In-Reply-To: <BD47B0B6.A934%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BD47B0B6.A934%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040817170805.02888410@mail.ilstu.edu>

I also had the honor of contributing to that issue, which Roger Gilbert 
edited. Archie was a really great guy.

This is the largets (thickest) issue of EPOCH I've ever seen. It runs to 
something like 400 pages.

Gabe

At 12:55 PM 8/17/2004, David Graham wrote:
>A. R. Ammons fans should surf on over to Poetry Daily, where a
>mini-symposium is in progress, featuring previously unpublished poems.
>Excerpts from a tribute issue of *Epoch*, the feature includes 3 poems plus
>commentary by Robert Morgan, Alice Fulton, and Roger Gilbert.
>
>http://www.poems.com/essaammo.htm
>
>Also included is the wonderful news of a forthcoming posthumous Ammons
>volume with the most Ammonsy title *Bosh and Flapdoodle*.
>
>====================================================
>David Graham
>grahamd at ripon.edu
>Home Page:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>Poetry Library:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>====================================================
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry




From DICK  Wed Aug 18 11:51:51 2004
From: DICK (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 04 11:51:51 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Kooser is new poet laureate
Message-ID: <200408181554.i7IFsSjZ026030@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>

The announcement of Ted Kooser's appointment came surprisingly
early.  Has there been any evidence over
the past year who the poet laureate was?  Did Louise Gluck do
_anything_ for her thirty-five grand?

Richard



From grahamd  Wed Aug 18 12:04:29 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:04:29 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Ted Kooser is new poet laureate
In-Reply-To: <200408181554.i7IFsSjZ026030@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <BD48E83D.A9A2%grahamd@ripon.edu>

on 8/18/04 10:51 AM, DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com at
DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com wrote:

> The announcement of Ted Kooser's appointment came surprisingly
> early.  Has there been any evidence over
> the past year who the poet laureate was?  Did Louise Gluck do
> _anything_ for her thirty-five grand?
> 
> Richard


As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when the
announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.

Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've no
reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.

Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.

35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it doesn't
even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm sure
the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts of
pork barrel nonsense.

Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
richly earned.  

====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From DICK  Wed Aug 18 13:24:39 2004
From: DICK (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 04 13:24:39 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
Message-ID: <200408181732.i7IHWNjZ015871@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>

>>As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when the
>>announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.
>>
>>Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
>>lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've no
>>reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.
>>
>>Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.
>>
>>35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it doesn't
>>even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm sure
>>the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts of
>>pork barrel nonsense.
>>
>>Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
>>richly earned.
>>
This defense comprises equal parts of faith and cynicism.

David finds no reason to think she didn't do what was asked of her,
but there's no evidence of what was asked of her, and there's certainly
no evidence that she did _anything_ beyond give a couple of interviews
when she was appointed.  And why she "richly earned" the honor is
also asserted without support; hey, I've read most of her books and
enjoyed them, but as an inspiration she's way down on my list.

If we needed a woman in the post, how about Mary Kienze, every one of
whose students I've ever met has raved about her.

As for cynicism: if she stole the 35 grand, so what since in Washington
it's "chump change." Shoot - in Washington 1 or 100 megabucks is chump
change too, but if I stole it it's grand larceny.  I think 35 G's
is grand larceny too if you steal it.

Richard



From alphavil  Wed Aug 18 13:38:00 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:38:00 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
In-Reply-To: <200408181732.i7IHWNjZ015871@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
References: <200408181732.i7IHWNjZ015871@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <412393F8.7060608@ix.netcom.com>

"In a regime of grand larceny, petty larceny ranks as conformity." Ezra 
Pound, sorta

DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com wrote:

>>>As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when the
>>>announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.
>>>
>>>Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
>>>lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've no
>>>reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.
>>>
>>>Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.
>>>
>>>35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it doesn't
>>>even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm sure
>>>the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts of
>>>pork barrel nonsense.
>>>
>>>Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
>>>richly earned.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>This defense comprises equal parts of faith and cynicism.
>
>David finds no reason to think she didn't do what was asked of her,
>but there's no evidence of what was asked of her, and there's certainly
>no evidence that she did _anything_ beyond give a couple of interviews
>when she was appointed.  And why she "richly earned" the honor is
>also asserted without support; hey, I've read most of her books and
>enjoyed them, but as an inspiration she's way down on my list.
>
>If we needed a woman in the post, how about Mary Kienze, every one of
>whose students I've ever met has raved about her.
>
>As for cynicism: if she stole the 35 grand, so what since in Washington
>it's "chump change." Shoot - in Washington 1 or 100 megabucks is chump
>change too, but if I stole it it's grand larceny.  I think 35 G's
>is grand larceny too if you steal it.
>
>Richard
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From Cadaly  Wed Aug 11 19:49:28 2004
From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:49:28 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Daly on radio
Message-ID: <1c7.1cf78bed.2e4c0a88@aol.com>

Catherine Daly (re: DaDaDa, Salt Publishing, 2003) on Andy Jones' "Dr. Andy's 
Poetry and Technology Radio Hour" show today (August 11) at 5 pm PST:

http://www.culturelover.com/

KDVS 90.3
listen online at http://www.kdvs.org/


http://www.culturelover.com/listen.html
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From Cadaly  Sat Aug 14 21:15:12 2004
From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:15:12 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] 
	Oakland, CA: Tabios & Daly this Sunday August 15 at 7pm
Message-ID: <1e6.27b38934.2e501320@aol.com>


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Subject: FW: Oakland, CA: Tabios & Daly this Sunday August 15 at 7pm
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:17:18 -0700
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From GrahamD  Wed Aug 18 15:49:10 2004
From: GrahamD (Graham, David)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:49:10 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A31A@mail.ripon.edu>

I'm not the one making the big assumptions here, Richard.  You apparently
feel that Gluck somehow didn't fulfill her duties.  OK, but maybe before you
start throwing around terms like "larceny" you should have some evidence for
it. . . .

My point was that the laureate's official duties are minimal at best.  It's
mainly an honorary post, which a number of recent laureates have chosen to
employ as a bully pulpit for poetry.  As I said, more power to them.  

As for the rest of your post, please note that I was not defending or
admiring Louise Gluck's poetry, particularly.  I said that "many believe"
she richly deserved the recognition, and that's true.  Many do.   She's not
the poet I would have chosen, either, but the fact remains she's somehow
acquired a major-league reputation despite my critical reservations.  It
happens!

And who said anything about "needing" a woman in the position of
laureate/consultant?  That might be news to Rita Dove, Mona Van Duyn,
Gwendolyn Brooks, Maxine Kumin, Elizabeth Bishop,  et al.

============================================
David Graham
Department of English, Ripon College
grahamd at ripon.edu
     Home Page:  
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
     My Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html

Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu
============================================


> ----------
> From: 	DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com
> Reply To: 	NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
> Sent: 	Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:24 PM
> To: 	new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> Subject: 	[New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
> 
> >>As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when
> the
> >>announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.
> >>
> >>Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
> >>lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've no
> >>reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.
> >>
> >>Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.
> >>
> >>35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it
> doesn't
> >>even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm
> sure
> >>the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts
> of
> >>pork barrel nonsense.
> >>
> >>Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
> >>richly earned.
> >>
> This defense comprises equal parts of faith and cynicism.
> 
> David finds no reason to think she didn't do what was asked of her,
> but there's no evidence of what was asked of her, and there's certainly
> no evidence that she did _anything_ beyond give a couple of interviews
> when she was appointed.  And why she "richly earned" the honor is
> also asserted without support; hey, I've read most of her books and
> enjoyed them, but as an inspiration she's way down on my list.
> 
> If we needed a woman in the post, how about Mary Kienze, every one of
> whose students I've ever met has raved about her.
> 
> As for cynicism: if she stole the 35 grand, so what since in Washington
> it's "chump change." Shoot - in Washington 1 or 100 megabucks is chump
> change too, but if I stole it it's grand larceny.  I think 35 G's
> is grand larceny too if you steal it.
> 
> Richard
> 



From tad  Wed Aug 18 16:03:38 2004
From: tad (The Old Mole)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:03:38 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A31A@mail.ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c4855e$7530d0d0$6401a8c0@MoleHQ>

Not doing an admirable job is hardly the same as larceny.

Tad


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graham, David" <GrahamD at ripon.edu>
To: "'NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views'"
<new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:49 PM
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure


> I'm not the one making the big assumptions here, Richard.  You apparently
> feel that Gluck somehow didn't fulfill her duties.  OK, but maybe before
you
> start throwing around terms like "larceny" you should have some evidence
for
> it. . . .
>
> My point was that the laureate's official duties are minimal at best.
It's
> mainly an honorary post, which a number of recent laureates have chosen to
> employ as a bully pulpit for poetry.  As I said, more power to them.
>
> As for the rest of your post, please note that I was not defending or
> admiring Louise Gluck's poetry, particularly.  I said that "many believe"
> she richly deserved the recognition, and that's true.  Many do.   She's
not
> the poet I would have chosen, either, but the fact remains she's somehow
> acquired a major-league reputation despite my critical reservations.  It
> happens!
>
> And who said anything about "needing" a woman in the position of
> laureate/consultant?  That might be news to Rita Dove, Mona Van Duyn,
> Gwendolyn Brooks, Maxine Kumin, Elizabeth Bishop,  et al.
>
> ============================================
> David Graham
> Department of English, Ripon College
> grahamd at ripon.edu
>      Home Page:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>      My Poetry Library:
> http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>
> Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu
> ============================================
>
>
> > ----------
> > From: DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com
> > Reply To: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:24 PM
> > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> > Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
> >
> > >>As compared to Dove, Pinsky, Hass, Collins?  No, she didn't; and when
> > the
> > >>announcement was made last year, she made it clear she wouldn't.
> > >>
> > >>Duties required of the laureate are light:  a reading or two, maybe a
> > >>lecture, some consultation on their reading series, I believe.  I've
no
> > >>reason to think that Gluck didn't do what was asked.
> > >>
> > >>Other laureates have chosen to do a lot more, and more power to them.
> > >>
> > >>35 grand is not a sum I sneeze at, personally; but in Washington it
> > doesn't
> > >>even register on the finest scales, I don't think.  Chump change.  I'm
> > sure
> > >>the federal government wastes more than that every second on all sorts
> > of
> > >>pork barrel nonsense.
> > >>
> > >>Let's not get after Gluck for accepting an honor that many believe she
> > >>richly earned.
> > >>
> > This defense comprises equal parts of faith and cynicism.
> >
> > David finds no reason to think she didn't do what was asked of her,
> > but there's no evidence of what was asked of her, and there's certainly
> > no evidence that she did _anything_ beyond give a couple of interviews
> > when she was appointed.  And why she "richly earned" the honor is
> > also asserted without support; hey, I've read most of her books and
> > enjoyed them, but as an inspiration she's way down on my list.
> >
> > If we needed a woman in the post, how about Mary Kienze, every one of
> > whose students I've ever met has raved about her.
> >
> > As for cynicism: if she stole the 35 grand, so what since in Washington
> > it's "chump change." Shoot - in Washington 1 or 100 megabucks is chump
> > change too, but if I stole it it's grand larceny.  I think 35 G's
> > is grand larceny too if you steal it.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>





From alphavil  Thu Aug 19 14:02:58 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:02:58 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] nasty backbiting Liberal press and their factual rengas
In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A31A@mail.ripon.edu>
References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A31A@mail.ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <4124EB52.30904@ix.netcom.com>

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/adiodi38.htm

Swift Boat Veterans For Lies, Self-Medication, Money & Money For 
Self-Medication:
Vietnam Vet Suckers Enter Ring For Kleptocracy But Get Rabbit Punched By 
the Fourth Estate:
Like Vietnam, the Iraq War Is A Coloring Book Of Kleptocratic Perfidy 
And Theft, But America Is Still Eating The Crayons:

By YASO ADIODI
The Assassinated Press
8/19/04


>  
>



From clitophon  Thu Aug 19 15:54:53 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kaufhaus des Westens
In-Reply-To: <41220188.1010003@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <20040819195453.77754.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, just a lot of hard work.  I?ve been plagued with
blisters, that as well as the ligament injury. 
Blisters are usually a sign of ill-fitting shoes, the
shoes I bought just before I left, a new pair of
walking shoes, v tough.  I?ve been using a v thick
black Indian ink pen to draw some of Berlin?s
monuments, giving them a very Gothic feel.  I sold a
sketch of the Brandenburger Tor to a Berliner, for 30
euroes.  It shows, you have to keep to the most
obvious landmarks, most recognisable people or sites,
to feed the public otherwise they aren?t interested. 
Otherwise my stay here has been relatively lonely,
especially the latter half.  Not having a job is a big
problem.  I think I could make it here if I had more
time and more resources but even a cheap hotel is 30
euroes per night.  It would be okay if I was selling
sketches every hour but I?ve only sold one.  It would
also be possible with a permit for street art which
happens to be very expensive in Berlin and much dearer
than London, for instance.
Tonight I was in the Kaufhauf des Westens (Dept store
of the West), v impressive, grand building and then
sketched the Kaiser Wilhelm Gedachtnisse Kirche (also
known as ?Hollow Tooth?because the roof has been blown
up by an Allied bomb).  Inside is the Stalingrad
Madonna, a sketch made by a German doctor at
Stalingrad - on the back of a map.  Berlin must have
been incredible before WW2, most of it is now
destroyed.  I?m just inside the Eastern sector, at
Potsdamer Platz which is now an amazing jungle of
skyscrapers but was very undeveloped before the Wende.
 
I have a cheaper and better hotel now.  The staff are
amazingly personable, only speak a little English and
are very grateful to have a customer who speaks German
to them.  It is clearly quite unusual since German is
such a difficult language to master.  The pity is that
my German level is just below theirs but within 6
months I?d be fluent too.  The night porter is an
amazing gentleman, quintessentially civilised (and
eminently Gay), helps me with my German and clearly
would like to spend the night with me too.
M wrote today to call me Hamsterb?cke (hamster mouth).
 I call her Frau Schweinimaus, pig mouse, after her
dogs.
Tschu?ie,
Paul  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



From DICK  Fri Aug 20 10:47:36 2004
From: DICK (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 04 10:47:36 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
Message-ID: <200408201455.i7KEtbjZ023848@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>

***** Reply to your note of: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:00:06 -0400 *************
>>I'm not the one making the big assumptions here, Richard.  You apparently
>>feel that Gluck somehow didn't fulfill her duties.  OK, but maybe before you
>>start throwing around terms like "larceny" you should have some evidence for
>>it. . . .
Well, isn't it colloquial to call holding a job and not doing
any work "stealing the money?" I'll accept that "larceny" is
hyperbolic...
>>
>>  (snip)
>>And who said anything about "needing" a woman in the position of
>>laureate/consultant?  That might be news to Rita Dove, Mona Van Duyn,
>>Gwendolyn Brooks, Maxine Kumin, Elizabeth Bishop,  et al.
>>
If I'm not mistaken, the last several laureates have been Billy (male),
Stanley (male), Robert (M), Rita (F), Bob (M) .. I could imagine
there being pressure to appoint a woman.


Richard



From alphavil  Fri Aug 20 21:36:31 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:36:31 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Glossuber for Ass. Press
In-Reply-To: <20040819195453.77754.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040819195453.77754.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4126A71F.6040208@ix.netcom.com>

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/


Oil Creeps Are Closer to $50 a Barrel:
Hype About Iraq, Terrorism in Saudi Arabia Drive Prices Higher:
Cheney Sees $100 a Barrel 'In No Time':
By DRAB GLOSSUBER


>  
>



From Chris.Lott  Sat Aug 21 00:50:42 2004
From: Chris.Lott (Chris Lott)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:50:42 -0800
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
In-Reply-To: <200408201455.i7KEtbjZ023848@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
References: <200408201455.i7KEtbjZ023848@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <6b279deb0408202150316260e8@mail.gmail.com>

> Well, isn't it colloquial to call holding a job and not doing
> any work "stealing the money?" I'll accept that "larceny" is
> hyperbolic...

It's not a job, though, is it? It's an appointment whose sole
obligations are a couple of readings... we may have
hoped/wished/expected her to do more, and that might lessen her in our
esteem, but it isn't theft if it wasn't a requirement in the first
place.

As I recall, she made quite clear at the beginning that she wasn't
going to do much as some previous laureates had-- in fact it was a
topic of discussion on this very list...

c
--
Chris Lott



From anny.ballardini  Sat Aug 21 15:33:36 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:33:36 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Louise Gluck's tenure
References: <200408201455.i7KEtbjZ023848@d01av01.pok.ibm.com>
	<6b279deb0408202150316260e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <018b01c487b5$c0c85000$17a93452@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Yes, I remember all those mails. If I project myself on that eminent spot, I
would have tried to do more. But whatever,
at least she didn't promise and then deny.

Anny

From: "Chris Lott" <Chris.Lott at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 6:50 AM


> > Well, isn't it colloquial to call holding a job and not doing
> > any work "stealing the money?" I'll accept that "larceny" is
> > hyperbolic...
>
> It's not a job, though, is it? It's an appointment whose sole
> obligations are a couple of readings... we may have
> hoped/wished/expected her to do more, and that might lessen her in our
> esteem, but it isn't theft if it wasn't a requirement in the first
> place.
>
> As I recall, she made quite clear at the beginning that she wasn't
> going to do much as some previous laureates had-- in fact it was a
> topic of discussion on this very list...
>
> c
> --
> Chris Lott
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From alphavil  Sat Aug 21 23:38:15 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:38:15 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Whitey for Ass. Press
In-Reply-To: <4126A71F.6040208@ix.netcom.com>
References: <20040819195453.77754.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com>
	<4126A71F.6040208@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <41281527.2040800@ix.netcom.com>

Turns Out Its The 'Swift Boats Vets Who Can't Face the Truth:'
In A War Defined By Civilian Casualties Inflicted By U.S. Forces 
Veterans Looking For A Leader Who Will Lie For Them:
Some Veterans Still Bitter About Being Outed On Crimes

By G. GOSH WHITEY AND BORUS FLAILURE
Assassinated Press Staff Writers
Saturday, August 21, 2004

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/whitey.htm

>



>



From anny.ballardini  Sun Aug 22 07:44:35 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:44:35 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Borges
Message-ID: <002c01c4883d$66fd10a0$d5d73152@yourpk9x5fuc06>

>From today's PoemHunter, some words for us all:

       
       
      Instants 

      If I could live again my life, 
      In the next - I'll try, 
      - to make more mistakes, 
      I won't try to be so perfect, 
      I'll be more relaxed, 
      I'll be more full - than I am now, 
      In fact, I'll take fewer things seriously, 
      I'll be less hygenic, 
      I'll take more risks, 
      I'll take more trips, 
      I'll watch more sunsets, 
      I'll climb more mountains, 
      I'll swim more rivers, 
      I'll go to more places - I've never been, 
      I'll eat more ice creams and less (lime) beans, 
      I'll have more real problems - and less imaginary 
      ones, 
      I was one of those people who live 
      prudent and prolific lives - 
      each minute of his life, 
      Offcourse that I had moments of joy - but, 
      if I could go back I'll try to have only good moments, 

      If you don't know - thats what life is made of, 
      Don't lose the now! 

      I was one of those who never goes anywhere 
      without a thermometer, 
      without a hot-water bottle, 
      and without an umberella and without a parachute, 

      If I could live again - I will travel light, 
      If I could live again - I'll try to work bare feet 
      at the beginning of spring till 
      the end of autumn, 
      I'll ride more carts, 
      I'll watch more sunrises and play with more children, 
      If I have the life to live - but now I am 85, 
      - and I know that I am dying ... 

      Jorge Luis Borges 
     
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From anny.ballardini  Sun Aug 22 11:11:25 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:11:25 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] another canvas
Message-ID: <00b201c4885a$4afc0100$d5d73152@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Sunday canvas III

 

 

The rounded motive of a Byzantine side chapel

with central flowers leading to the statue of Jesus, the child

hovered by two golden angels holding the crown

 

he is helped by his mother seated at his side, her hands on his armpits

his arms as an open circle to receive our prayers

 

the echoing vaulted ceiling channels and reflects our thoughts

the act of reflection brings back to the subject his amplified quest

breaking through perceptive layers

sometimes e/motion is so strong as to bring tears

like the might of an ocean erupting onshore.

 

It tears all apart.

 

The day outside is unbearably bright

shivers run along the spine after the vision of eternity

a child tries to attract attention

on his father's tired face compliance to life

brings a detached answer

 

paths and streets like guts

knots and lights, fires sometimes

 

they say death is the displacement to another chamber

still it becomes difficult to pack or let someone you love

start packing

 

 

August 22, 2004

Anny Ballardini
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome


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From tad  Sun Aug 22 20:27:17 2004
From: tad (The Old Mole)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:27:17 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Excellent Website
Message-ID: <001501c488a7$f3cc6070$6501a8c0@MoleHQ>

Which I just stumbled on, though the rest of you may know it. From Professor
Eiichi Hishikawa,  Kobe University, Japan



http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/20c_poet.htm





From JforJames  Sun Aug 22 21:20:20 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:20:20 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] New titles from Salt
Message-ID: <141.31aa99c9.2e5aa054@aol.com>

Date:? ? Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:13:17 +0100
From:? ? Chris Hamilton-Emery <cemery at SALTPUBLISHING.COM>
Subject: New titles from Salt

:: N E W?? T I T L E S?? F R O M?? S A L T ::

MATTHEW FRANCIS
"Where the People Are: Language and Community in the Poetry of W. S. Graham=
"
ISBN 1876857234
=A316.95
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/sscp/1876857234.htm
BUY NOW http://www.saltpublishing.com/shop/proddetail.php?prod=3D1876857234

RACHEL BLAU DuPLESSIS
"Drafts: Drafts 39=AD57, Pledge, with Draft, unnumbered: Pr=E9cis"
=A312.95
ISBN 1844710726
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710726.htm
BUY NOW http://www.saltpublishing.com/shop/proddetail.php?prod=3D1844710726



:: A V A I L A B L E?? I N?? O N E?? W E E K ::

CHARLES BERNSTEIN
Introduction by Ron Silliman
"The Sophist"
=A310.95
ISBN 1844710009
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smc/1844710009.htm

JOHN KINSELLA & TRACY RYAN
"Conspiracies"
=A310.95
ISBN 1844710181
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smf/1844710181.htm

JOHN KINSELLA
"Doppler Effect"
=A317.95
ISBN 1844710203
http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1844710203.htm

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From JforJames  Sun Aug 22 21:47:37 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:47:37 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
Message-ID: <20.31821373.2e5aa6b9@aol.com>

In a message dated 8/12/2004 11:03:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes:

> It's a shame that he doesn't have a wider audience, but that's a complaint 
> that could be lodged by/about 10,000+ other poets and those who respect their 
> work.  Kooser's nomination came as a surprise to me, a pleasant one. 

I've been away and away from po news. Milosz died. Kooser gets the nod
for Poet Laureate: I agree that Kooser is an unexpected choice. Does anyone
know how this position is selected?...there is more transparency in the 
selection
of a Pope by the College of Cardinals...is there a committee of some kind?
One connection I can come up with is Dana Gioia: He wrote favorably
of Kooser in an essay entitled "The Anonymity of the Regional Poet."
Finnegan 

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From JforJames  Sun Aug 22 22:14:59 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:14:59 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Blue plaque ends 60 years in the cold for Ezra Pound
Message-ID: <8e.12fc4bbe.2e5aad23@aol.com>

Blue plaque ends 60 years in the cold for Ezra Pound

English Heritage recognises poets' poet whose pivotal role in 20th century
literature was overshadowed by his anti-semitic views

John Ezard, arts correspondent
Thursday August 12, 2004
The Guardian

Ezra Pound, the "poets' poet" who has been ostracised for 60 years because
of his virulent anti-semitism and support for fascism, was honoured with an
official blue plaque yesterday.

The plaque, from English Heritage, is a first chink of light in the cloud
of infamy and disgrace which hangs over Pound's memory, although he was the
godfather of literary modernism and midwife to some of the 20th century's
greatest works - notably TS Eliot's poem The Waste Land.

The ceremony in London brought applause from an audience of those who
support him as an artist. One called it "an event long overdue" when the
plaque was unveiled at the house in Kensington Church Walk where the
US-born writer lived from 1909 to 1914.

The building is steeped in literary history. There Pound promoted the work
of then unknown writers including Eliot and James Joyce, worked alongside
WB Yeats and was visited by Robert Frost, DH Lawrence and the Nobel
prize-winning Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore.

>From there, he changed the course of poetry with his doctrine of Imagism.
This stressed clarity, precision and economy in verse, breaking free from
strict traditional rhymes and metres.

Eliot described Pound as "more responsible for the 20th century revolution
in poetry than any other individual". He followed Pound's advice in
revising The Waste Land and dedicated the poem to him, acknowledging him as
"il miglior fabbro" (the better craftsman).

But Pound is also credited with prompting a scatter of anti-semitic lines
in Eliot's verse. These still dog the more famous poet's reputation:

My house is a decayed house,
And the jew squats on the window sill, the owner,
Spawned in some estaminet of Antwerp (Gerontion, 1920)

>From the 1920s onwards, Pound grew obsessed with the Jewish people and
with a belief that usury, otherwise called "credit capitalism", was rotting
western civilisation. Living in Italy, he broadcast propaganda for
Mussolini and spoke in favour of Hitler.

He was found mentally unfit to answer charges of treason after the war and
was certified insane. In confinement, he wrote his admired Pisan Cantos.

Yesterday his daughter Mary de Rachewiltz, 78, said: "My father has been
subjected to much criticism ... He always stood by his belief that justice
is for everyone."

A US Pound scholar, Professor William Pratt, said: "For English Heritage to
say that Pound is part of the authentic heritage means a great deal.
There's a lot about Pound I don't like but he changed the history of
English poetry."

Emily Cole, English Heritage's plaques historian, said: "It obviously was
quite a controversial case. But the panel [which approved the plaque] were
very conscious of his place in literature."

The director general of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, Neville
Nagler, said: "I hope the unveiling is not any kind of endorsement, of
Pound's anti-semitic and highly offensive views which pervaded his poetry."
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From Rsgwynn1  Sun Aug 22 23:31:50 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:31:50 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser Belaureled
Message-ID: <67.31272471.2e5abf26@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/22/2004 8:47:53 PM Central Daylight Time, 
JforJames at aol.com writes: 
> I've been away and away from po news. Milosz died. Kooser gets the nod
> for Poet Laureate: I agree that Kooser is an unexpected choice. Does anyone
> know how this position is selected?...there is more transparency in the 
> selection
> of a Pope by the College of Cardinals...is there a committee of some kind?
> One connection I can come up with is Dana Gioia: He wrote favorably
> of Kooser in an essay entitled "The Anonymity of the Regional Poet."
> Finnegan 

There was a news story posted the other day that said that a committee at the 
Library of Congress consults former laureates and others. I expect Dana was 
consulted.
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From anny.ballardini  Mon Aug 23 02:13:33 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:13:33 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Excellent Website
References: <001501c488a7$f3cc6070$6501a8c0@MoleHQ>
Message-ID: <004a01c488d8$521f4130$b6d83052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Well thanks. I didn't really need one more poetry link, but I love storing
them under my favorites, :-)

Anny


From: "The Old Mole" <tad at opus40.org>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:27 AM


> Which I just stumbled on, though the rest of you may know it. From
Professor
> Eiichi Hishikawa,  Kobe University, Japan
>
>
>
> http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/20c_poet.htm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>





From ron.silliman  Mon Aug 23 07:50:08 2004
From: ron.silliman (Ron)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 07:50:08 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: he's ba-ack . . . 
Message-ID: <000001c48907$5e0f1680$6501a8c0@Dell>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT TOPICS:

Vacation reading list(s)

Two notes on Rem Koolhaas,
Frank Gehry & post-avant architecture
in Seattle

After The Alphabet

Two new important poetry sites:
Mini-mag's PhillySound feature &
audios from the Carrboro (NC) Poetry Festival

3 notes on the work of Tenney Nathanson

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/





From halvard  Mon Aug 23 16:34:37 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:34:37 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Gerardo Deniz, "Childish"
Message-ID: <f160a121040823133471f300f3@mail.gmail.com>

Childish

Take your kids away, take them
you who teach them to yell "hooray!" when excited.
It's profoundly untrue.
(Likewise, close the crematory oven,
what if the sideburns of a distracted onlooker catch fire
at the observation window, still scalding after incinerating Mom.)
Our representatives travel to streets, race tracks, bakeries
--easily recognized by the nursing bottles embroidered on their blue caps--
and to those kids who whine beyond description,
they hand out candy, toys, tricycles, atomic bombs,
that can generate radioactive mushrooms at least five feet tall.
What we mustn't permit, however, is spitting,
which is truly unbearable.
In these days devoted to the science of child-rearing
I climb up to the roof over and over again,
to take walks and unwind from the action:
across the maritime horizon I see
giant distant whales go by.

--Gerardo Deniz

fr. *Ton y son*
tr. M?nica de la Torre

Pueril

Ll?vense a sus ni?os, ll?venselos
quienes le ense?an que cuando est?n contentos griten "yupi".
Es profundamente mentira.
(Pero que se cierre asimismo el horno crematorio,
no vaya a quemarse alg?n despistado las patillas
con el ventanuco de observaci?n, ardiendo todav?a de incinerar a mam?.)
Recorren calles, hip?dromos, pasteler?as nuestras diputaciones
--f?cilmente reconocibles gracias al biber?n bordado en la boina azul--,
y a las criaturas que sean halladas en flagrante berrinche indescriptible
entr?guenseles dulces, juguetes, triciclos, bombas at?micas
que produzcan hongos radiactivos de metro y medio siquiera.
Hay que prohibir nada m?sles, escupir,
lo cual s? es insoportable.
en estos d?as consagrados a la puericultura subo a pasear
una y otra vez sobre el techo
y serenarme de la acci?n;
veo por el horizonte marino pasar
grandes ballenas lejanas.


Hal     

Halvard Johnson
===============
email: halvard at earthlink.net
          halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard




From JforJames  Mon Aug 23 16:54:55 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:54:55 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
Message-ID: <1c6.1d9a1c44.2e5bb39f@aol.com>

The new Laureate in a Q&A...

http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
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From halvard  Tue Aug 24 10:17:29 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:17:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP Ron Schreiber
Message-ID: <f160a121040824071722d8e142@mail.gmail.com>

Ron Schreiber, a poet, teacher, and one of the founding fathers of 
Hanging Loose and Hanging Loose Press, died this past Saturday.

"We cannot prevent? the birds of sorrow from flying over our heads?
but we can refuse? to let them build nests? in our hair."
                         ?Ron Schreiber, "The Birds of Sorrow" 

-- 
Hal                

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard




From JforJames  Tue Aug 24 12:41:24 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:41:24 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for submissions- WORM 31 Poetry e-zine
Message-ID: <66.44bb4000.2e5cc9b4@aol.com>

Date:    Mon, 23 Aug 2004 07:24:04 +0100
From:    grasshopper <grasshopper at WORDBUG.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject: Call for submissions- WORM 31 Poetry e-zine

WORM is a poetry zine distributed by email, then archived permanently on =
the WORM webpages: http://www.villarana.freeserve.co.uk/wormhome.htm=20
The deadline for WORM 31 is 7th September 2004. Please send up to 3 =
poems, free verse or formal, to: grasshopper at wordbug.freeserve.co.uk in =
the body of an email, not as an attachment. Previous publication or =
simultaneous submission are not problems for WORM.
Important: Do not send any submissions to this list - only to my email =
address.
All submissions are forwarded (without authors' names) to my 2 =
co-editors and selection is made on the basis of our combined scores. My =
co-editors for WORM 31 are David Anthony and Helena Nelson.
Any questions, just drop me an email. I know Everything.=20
Regards,Maz=20
(M.A.Griffiths,
Resident editor)
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From barry.spacks  Tue Aug 24 12:42:35 2004
From: barry.spacks (Barry Spacks)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:42:35 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks-Facts
In-Reply-To: <200408241600.i7OG03YC032346@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>

To celebrate two new books of poems coming out this year (REGARDING WOMEN,
WordTech, winner of the Cherry Grove Collections Prize, and THE HOPE OF THE 
AIR,
Michigan State University Press) I'm reading here and there in the fall, 
thought I'd post
a few of those dates/places in case any list-mates have an interest and 
live or travel nearby.

Please back-channel for fuller info.

Santa Barbara Poetry Series at the Contemporary Arts Forum: September 14, 7 
p.m.
Allegheny College (reading and residency): September 20-22
M.I.T. reading: September 23, 7 p.m.
Fremont, Michigan, Library Reading Series: October 23
Readers Books, Sonoma, CA.: November 16
Stanford University: November 17

I'm also riding The Georgia Circuit to 10 colleges & universities,
November 7-13 &  January 23-29, 2005

Y'all come if you can!

listingly,

Barry

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From anny.ballardini  Tue Aug 24 13:54:58 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:54:58 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks-Facts
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <007101c48a03$78b8abc0$44de3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

All right Barry, you are an incredible flying Kid, compliments and cheers
Useless to say that I would love to be present to 'em All!

(here goes a very long signature)
Anny Ballardini
http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=poetshome

"Sir   Laurence,"   he   said,  smiling  wanly,  "I  detest
     literature.  I  abominate  the  theatre. I have a horror of
     culture. I am only interested in magic!"
     --John Lahr (editor), [2]The Diaries of Kenneth Tynan


  From: Barry Spacks 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 6:42 PM


  To celebrate two new books of poems coming out this year (REGARDING WOMEN, 
  WordTech, winner of the Cherry Grove Collections Prize, and THE HOPE OF THE AIR, 
  Michigan State University Press) I'm reading here and there in the fall, thought I'd post 
  a few of those dates/places in case any list-mates have an interest and live or travel nearby.

  Please back-channel for fuller info.

  Santa Barbara Poetry Series at the Contemporary Arts Forum: September 14, 7 p.m.
  Allegheny College (reading and residency): September 20-22
  M.I.T. reading: September 23, 7 p.m.
  Fremont, Michigan, Library Reading Series: October 23
  Readers Books, Sonoma, CA.: November 16
  Stanford University: November 17

  I'm also riding The Georgia Circuit to 10 colleges & universities,
  November 7-13 &  January 23-29, 2005

  Y'all come if you can!

  listingly,

  Barry




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From halvard  Tue Aug 24 14:11:36 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:11:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Spacks-Facts
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>
Message-ID: <f160a12104082411115a38e2ff@mail.gmail.com>

Y'all come if you can!

listingly,

Barry

=====

Straighten up, fly right, and break a leg, Barry.
If you guys change course and make it to NYC
give us a buzz.

-- 
Hal                

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard



From alphavil  Wed Aug 25 09:57:44 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:57:44 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Abu Graib Bag
In-Reply-To: <f160a12104082411115a38e2ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040824091522.00b72fc0@incoming.verizon.net>
	<f160a12104082411115a38e2ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <412C9AD8.80203@ix.netcom.com>


Knowledge Of Abu Graib Sex Romps Went "Higher than God" As DNA 
Implicates Rumsfeld:
Abu Ghraib Report Faults Top Officials---Not Enough Dope, Liquor, Toys 
At Sex 'Interrogations':
Teenaged Detainees Forced To Give Military Brass Lap Dances:
Wolfowitz Reaffirms "Iraq war was not for the Oil. It was for the Fuck 
Munch."
"We Don't Want Americans To Think Of Murder As Something Uncomfortable, 
Like Sex," Counsels Bill O'Reilly

By ROBBIE BARRONS
Assassinated Press Military Writer
August 24, 2004



>  
>



From JforJames  Wed Aug 25 13:42:32 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:42:32 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Back-up that disk drive
Message-ID: <a1.4c3c3b64.2e5e2988@aol.com>

http://w3.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge/story.asp?StoryID=60370
Poet's plea for return of poems
Published on 25 August 2004
TEN years' work has been stolen from a poet on a visit to the The Orchard, 
Grantchester.
 
Steve Larkin said the unpublished poetry was invaluable to him and pleaded 
with thieves to return it.
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From JforJames  Wed Aug 25 14:00:30 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:00:30 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan: A profile     
Message-ID: <1e3.28db4066.2e5e2dbe@aol.com>

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0825/p25s01-bogn.html

Poet Kay Ryan: A profile
 
By Elizabeth Lund 
 
Kay Ryan may be the only American poet who describes her writing process as 
"a self-imposed emergency," the artistic equivalent of finding a loved one 
pinned under a 3,000-pound car. These "emergencies," she says, allow her to tap 
into abilities she wouldn't normally have, much like a father who 
single-handedly lifts a vehicle off his child.
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From GrahamD  Wed Aug 25 14:29:00 2004
From: GrahamD (Graham, David)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:29:00 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] H. L. Hix
Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A32D@mail.ripon.edu>

No Less Than Twenty-Six Distinct Necronyms

*Father dead*, we will call her, or *Niece dead.
Cousin in car crash*. So many names fit.
*Sister cut wrists, Brother shot in the head.
Grandfather wandered off, Great uncle hit
By train while drunk. Aunt dead. Aunt dead. Aunt dead.
Brother stillborn. Uncle had heart attack.
Niece murdered. Great-grandmother died in bed.
Nephew dead. Sister drowned in frozen lake.
Sister burned in trailer home fire. Brother
Overdosed. Sister, crib death*. Every breath
Matters. *Cousin fell from window. Cancer
Ate colons of two uncles, lungs of both
Grandmothers. Cousin had kidney failure
After going blind. Mother died giving birth*.

H. L. Hix.  *Perfect Hell*. Gibbs Smith, 1996


============================================
David Graham
Department of English, Ripon College
grahamd at ripon.edu
     Home Page:  
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
     My Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html

Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu
============================================




From terzarima  Wed Aug 25 14:38:40 2004
From: terzarima (Suzanne Burns)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:38:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Open Books in Seattle
Message-ID: <17078861.1093459120805.JavaMail.root@skeeter.psp.pas.earthlink.net>

Wow!  

I just heard that there is another "all poetry" bookstore out there, this one in Seattle!  Open Books! 

They have a lovely website with reviews of new titles as well as descriptions of rare and first editions they have in stock, for any who are interested. I am glad to hear about them.

Has anyone been there?

http://www.openpoetrybooks.com/

--Suzanne



From paul.lake  Wed Aug 25 08:01:26 2004
From: paul.lake (Paul Lake)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:01:26 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan: A profile     
In-Reply-To: <1e3.28db4066.2e5e2dbe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BD51E9C6.6DA3%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>

Thanks for posting his very fine article on Kay Ryan, a poet I admire.

Paul



On 8/25/04 1:00 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:

> http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0825/p25s01-bogn.html
> 
>  
> 
> Poet Kay Ryan: A profile
> 
>  
> 
> By Elizabeth Lund
> 
>  
> Kay Ryan may be the only American poet who describes her writing process as "a
> self-imposed emergency," the artistic equivalent of finding a loved one pinned
> under a 3,000-pound car. These "emergencies," she says, allow her to tap into
> abilities she wouldn't normally have, much like a father who single-handedly
> lifts a vehicle off his child.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


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From lshinn  Wed Aug 25 15:07:11 2004
From: lshinn (Leslie Shinn)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:07:11 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kay Ryan: A profile
In-Reply-To: <BD51E9C6.6DA3%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>
References: <BD51E9C6.6DA3%paul.lake@mail.atu.edu>
Message-ID: <p05210610bd529368d040@[130.91.64.42]>

This is a wonderful article -- love that Kay Ryan!  Such a fine, fine poet.

>
>On 8/25/04 1:00 PM, "JforJames at aol.com" <JforJames at aol.com> wrote:
>
>http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0825/p25s01-bogn.html
>
>
>
>Poet Kay Ryan: A profile
>
>
>
>By Elizabeth Lund
>
>
>Kay Ryan may be the only American poet who describes her writing 
>process as "a self-imposed emergency," the artistic equivalent of 
>finding a loved one pinned under a 3,000-pound car. These 
>"emergencies," she says, allow her to tap into abilities she 
>wouldn't normally have, much like a father who single-handedly lifts 
>a vehicle off his child.
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
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From tad  Wed Aug 25 15:32:12 2004
From: tad (The Old Mole)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:32:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] lost note
Message-ID: <016201c48ada$4032ef40$6501a8c0@MoleHQ>

Someone, about a month or so ago, posted here a note with a call for papers for an American Lit of American studies conference in Kentucky, which I made a note of, and then lost the note. Can you backchannel me?

Tad at opus40.org

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From Rsgwynn1  Wed Aug 25 20:50:10 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:50:10 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
Message-ID: <a3.61c651e5.2e5e8dc2@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time, 
JforJames at aol.com writes: 
> 
> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>   
>  http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
> 

James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview from 
RealPlayer to cd?
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From jnewberry1974  Wed Aug 25 21:39:47 2004
From: jnewberry1974 (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <a3.61c651e5.2e5e8dc2@cs.com>
Message-ID: <20040826013947.85187.qmail@web52603.mail.yahoo.com>

Sam,
 
When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the file somewhere on your computer.  You can either put it in a special folder, or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
 
>From there, you can burn the file to a cd.  Just stick in a blank CD.  XP should walk you through the rest.
 
Jeff Newberry

Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: 

The new Laureate in a Q&A...
  
http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp


James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



Jeff Newberry
 
"Sometimes it's not so easy,
especially when your only friend
talks, sees, looks and feels like you,
and you do just the same as him."
--Jimi Hendrix, "My Friend"
		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
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From Rsgwynn1  Wed Aug 25 21:57:32 2004
From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:57:32 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
Message-ID: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>

In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes: 
> 
> Sam,
>   
>  When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the 
> file somewhere on your computer.  You can either put it in a special folder, 
> or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>   
>  From there, you can burn the file to a cd.  Just stick in a blank CD.  XP 
> should walk you through the rest.
>   
>  Jeff Newberry
> 
> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>  
> >> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>> JforJames at aol.com writes: 
>> >>> 
>>> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>>>   
>>> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>>> 
>> 
>> James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview 
>> from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
>> New-Poetry mailing list
>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff Newberry
> 
It's a direct stream, not a file, I think.  Any other ideas? I just recorded 
it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the sound quality isn't 
very good.
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From kpaul  Wed Aug 25 22:14:50 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:14:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>
References: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>
Message-ID: <20040825211403.S51439@kpaul.spinweb.net>

i can't vouch for it myself, but this looks like it might do the trick. 
and it appears it's free.

R7C Real7ime Converter

http://emoney.al.ru/capture-streaming-video-and-audio/record-streaming-video-real-video.htm

best,
kpaul

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
> jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Sam,
>>
>>  When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the
>> file somewhere on your computer.  You can either put it in a special folder,
>> or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>>
>>  From there, you can burn the file to a cd.  Just stick in a blank CD.  XP
>> should walk you through the rest.
>>
>>  Jeff Newberry
>>
>> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>>
>>>> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
>>> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>>>>>>
>>>> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>>>>
>>>
>>> James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview
>>> from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
> It's a direct stream, not a file, I think.  Any other ideas? I just recorded
> it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the sound quality isn't
> very good.
>



From acgold01  Wed Aug 25 23:28:30 2004
From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding)
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:28:30 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] 20C Literature and Culture Conference, and Lowell
Message-ID: <s12d20af.092@gwise.louisville.edu>

I'm resending the information that Tad requested about the 20C
Literature and Culture Conference in Louisville in case others can use
it.  The website is http://www.louisville.edu/a-s/cml/xxconf/

A question: does anyone know if the full text of Robert Lowell's
National Book Award acceptance for Life Studies is/was published
anywhere?  It's not in his Collected Prose.  It's partially cited in a
1960 essay by Stanley Kunitz, and the full text is online, but I need a
print source.

Thanks,

Alan



From jnewberry1974  Thu Aug 26 09:09:47 2004
From: jnewberry1974 (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:09:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <20040825211403.S51439@kpaul.spinweb.net>
Message-ID: <20040826130947.61147.qmail@web52603.mail.yahoo.com>

Here's the file.  If you right click on the actual page, you can save as on your desktop.
 
Or, you can download this.
 
Jeff

kpaul mallasch <kpaul at mallasch.com> wrote: 
i can't vouch for it myself, but this looks like it might do the trick. 
and it appears it's free.

R7C Real7ime Converter

http://emoney.al.ru/capture-streaming-video-and-audio/record-streaming-video-real-video.htm

best,
kpaul

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
> jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Sam,
>>
>> When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the
>> file somewhere on your computer. You can either put it in a special folder,
>> or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>>
>> From there, you can burn the file to a cd. Just stick in a blank CD. XP
>> should walk you through the rest.
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
>> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>>
>>>> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
>>> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>>>>>>
>>>> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>>>>
>>>
>>> James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview
>>> from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff Newberry
>>
> It's a direct stream, not a file, I think. Any other ideas? I just recorded
> it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the sound quality isn't
> very good.
>
_______________________________________________
New-Poetry mailing list
New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry



Jeff Newberry
 
"Sometimes it's not so easy,
especially when your only friend
talks, sees, looks and feels like you,
and you do just the same as him."
--Jimi Hendrix, "My Friend"
		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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From kpaul  Thu Aug 26 10:31:41 2004
From: kpaul (kpaul mallasch)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:31:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <20040826130947.61147.qmail@web52603.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040826130947.61147.qmail@web52603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040826093106.I22438@kpaul.spinweb.net>

If it's only 211 bytes, i imagine it's just a pointer to the stream. That 
is, if you burn it to a CD and try to play it on something that isn't 
connected to the Intraweb, you won't be able to hear it...

-kpaul

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Jeff Newberry wrote:

> Here's the file.  If you right click on the actual page, you can save as on your desktop.
>
> Or, you can download this.
>
> Jeff
>
> kpaul mallasch <kpaul at mallasch.com> wrote:
> i can't vouch for it myself, but this looks like it might do the trick.
> and it appears it's free.
>
> R7C Real7ime Converter
>
> http://emoney.al.ru/capture-streaming-video-and-audio/record-streaming-video-real-video.htm
>
> best,
> kpaul
>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes:
>>>
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>> When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save the
>>> file somewhere on your computer. You can either put it in a special folder,
>>> or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>>>
>>> From there, you can burn the file to a cd. Just stick in a blank CD. XP
>>> should walk you through the rest.
>>>
>>> Jeff Newberry
>>>
>>> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
>>>> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>> The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this interview
>>>> from RealPlayer to cd? _______________________________________________
>>>> New-Poetry mailing list
>>>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>>>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff Newberry
>>>
>> It's a direct stream, not a file, I think. Any other ideas? I just recorded
>> it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the sound quality isn't
>> very good.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
> Jeff Newberry
>
> "Sometimes it's not so easy,
> especially when your only friend
> talks, sees, looks and feels like you,
> and you do just the same as him."
> --Jimi Hendrix, "My Friend"
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!



From JforJames  Thu Aug 26 12:29:25 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:29:25 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] poet Barry Schwabsky
Message-ID: <1e5.28f2fd86.2e5f69e5@aol.com>

http://www.sidereality.com/volume3issue2/interviewsv3n2/interviewwithbarryschw
absky.htm

What makes someone a poet? I don't know, but I wouldn't put too much weight 
on a name, nor do I think it makes much sense to promote the idea of poets as a 
somehow distinct category of people. Poetry is a formalization of the 
linguistic activity in which everyone is involved all the time, and ideally it should 
be available to all who feel a need to express themselves in that manner so 
as to reflect on their imaginative engagement with life. Perhaps that isn't 
very clear, but if you think of Heidegger's famous dictum, "Man dwells 
poetically," that indicates that poetry is not primarily a specialized activity, but 
fundamental to our being at home (or failing to be at home) in the world. There 
are good reasons why a small number of people should also make a specialized 
activity of this, but those of us who do so do not thereby attain ownership over 
the words "poetry" and "poet."
--Barry Schwabsky

Schwabsky is an art critc and a poet. During a decade or
so he wasn't writing much and didn't try to publish at all. 
He says in the interview that when discussing his lapse 
from poetry with Ann Lauterbach she referred to him as a "discouraged 
worker," a phrase used by economists 
for someone who has been unemployed for so long that 
he/she has pretty much stopped looking for work. (Probably 
most poets are discouraged workers in the sense of being 
gainfully-employed in their chosen vocation.)

Thanks to Dennis Barone for pointing me to this site,
the interview and the selection of Schwabsky's poems.

Finnegan
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From alphavil  Thu Aug 26 12:45:29 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:45:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] the opportunity to serve
In-Reply-To: <1e5.28f2fd86.2e5f69e5@aol.com>
References: <1e5.28f2fd86.2e5f69e5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <412E13A9.3040205@ix.netcom.com>

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/


Draft Board Volunteers Have Been Meeting Quietly For Nearly A Year:
New 'Universal Draft' Guidelines In Place:

By PHILIP OCHS
The Assassinated Press
August 26, 2004


Americans At Peace With Culture Of Greed:
Auditor Applauds Iraq Contract Oversight:
Halliburton Unit Not Required To Justify Expenses, Memo Says

By RILEY HARROWING
Assassinated Press Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 25, 2004






From cc  Thu Aug 26 13:21:35 2004
From: cc (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:21:35 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Vol 2, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <200408011600.i71G03YD018443@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHEEJFCPAA.cc@opus0.com>

James, 
No fireworks for the start of the new Volume?  
And what numerology behind 2362 Issues?  

Crisman




From clitophon  Thu Aug 26 13:35:22 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:35:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Cyclops Polyphemus
In-Reply-To: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHEEJFCPAA.cc@opus0.com>
Message-ID: <20040826173522.29246.qmail@web40421.mail.yahoo.com>

childbirth is not unique to women.  Of course, this is
a trick question.  Only a woman can give birth so the
man who gives birth is really no man.  Also the answer
Odysseus gives to the Cyclops, not the usual epithet,
I am Odysseus son of Laertes.  But, I am no man.  The
Cyclops, completely confused, rushes out onto the
hillside and shouts to his fellows for help.  They
reply;

'who is attacking you?'

'no man'

and they all laugh at him.  Polythemus hurls a rock at
Odysseus' boat as he leaves the island of the Cyclops.
Of course the Cyclops represents a stage in human
ontology as man makes the transition from primitive,
subjective (bigoted, blind to the other) being to
objective, advanced human with legal, social
institutions, capability to love and care for others
beyond his or her immediate family and feel a sense of
unity beyond personal material/financial interests. 
In other words, to experience the objective sphere of
human love.  
The story is paralleled in Arthur C Clarke's novel
'2001: A Space Odyssey' with the Hal 9000 computer
standing in for the Cyclops.  Instead of the battle in
the hall at the end there is a strange hotel room with
Old Masters on the wall and an eery sound track.    I
wonder how he got the Ajax (how Homeric!!!) to clean
the toilet.  I mean, if he's supposed to be on one of
the moons of Jupiter for that long, how did he get
fluid and cleaner or food or clothes?  Was there a
disco?  A bar?  How did he cope with his urge to....  
PM


		
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From mandolin  Thu Aug 26 20:20:29 2004
From: mandolin (Michael Snider)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:20:29 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Kooser interview
In-Reply-To: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>
References: <6.318f14f1.2e5e9d8c@cs.com>
Message-ID: <E6AE175E-F7BE-11D8-AACB-000393C29586@mac.com>

Sam, what's your OS? If it's Mac OS X, I can help.  backchannel if you 
like.

On Aug 25, 2004, at 9:57 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/25/2004 8:40:54 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com writes:
>
>
>  Sam,
>  ?
>  When you click on "listen to show," you should have an option to save 
> the file somewhere on your computer.? You can either put it in a 
> special folder, or do as I do and save it on your desktop.
>  ?
>  From there, you can burn the file to a cd.? Just stick in a blank 
> CD.? XP should walk you through the rest.
>  ?
>  Jeff Newberry
>
> Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/23/2004 3:55:13 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> JforJames at aol.com writes:
>
>
>  The new Laureate in a Q&A...
>  ?
> http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040816_b_main.asp
>
>
>
>  James, do you (or anyone out there) know how I can record this 
> interview from RealPlayer to cd? 
> _______________________________________________
>  New-Poetry mailing list
>  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>  http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>
>
>
>
>  Jeff Newberry
>
>
>  It's a direct stream, not a file, I think.? Any other ideas? I just 
> recorded it on a tape recorder from the computer speakers, but the 
> sound quality isn't very 
> good._______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry





From halvard  Fri Aug 27 12:06:32 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:06:32 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Octavio Paz, "On Reading John Cage"
In-Reply-To: <KOECIOJIGMDEJAEGDFJEIEBHINAA.halvard@earthlink.net>
References: <KOECIOJIGMDEJAEGDFJEIEBHINAA.halvard@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <f160a1210408270906626dbbb0@mail.gmail.com>

On Reading John Cage

Reading
           Flowing
Music without measurements,
Sounds passing through circumstances,
I hear them within me
                               Outside they pass
I see them outside me
                                Within me they pass.
I am the circumstance,
Music:
         I hear within what I see outside
         I see within what I hear outside
(I can't hear myself hearing: Duchamp.)
                                                          I am
An architecture of sounds
Instantaneous
                   On
A space that disintegrates itself
                                              (Everything
We come across is to the point.)
                                                  Music
Invents silence,
                      Architecture
Invents space.
                     Factories of air.
Silence
          Is the space of music:
Space
         Unextended:
                            There is no silence
Save in the mind.
                         Silence is an idea,
                         The id?e fixe of music.
Music is not an idea:
                              It is sound,
Sounds walking over silence.
(Not one sound fears the silence
                                  That extinguishes it.)
Silence is music
                       Music is not silence.
Nirvana is Samsara
                             Samsara is not Nirvana.
Knowing is not knowing:
                                     Recovering ignorance,
Knowledge of knowing.
                                    It is one thing to hear
These afternoon-footsteps
Between trees and houses
                                       Another to see
Between same trees and houses
These afternoon-footsteps
                                       After reading
Silence:
            Nirvana is Samsara
                                          Silence is music.
(Let life obscure
                         The difference between art and life.)
Music is not silence:
                              It is not saying
What silence says,
                           It is saying
What it doesn't say.
                             Silence has no sense
                             Sense has no silence.
Without being heard
                              Music slips between both.
(Every something is an echo of nothing.)
In the silence of my room
                                      The murmur of my body:
Unheard.
             One day I shall hear its thoughts.
                                                               The afternoon
Stands still:
                 Yet--it walks.
My body hears the body of my wife
                                                      (A cable of sound)
And responds to it:
                            This is called music.
Music is real,
                    Silence is an idea.
John Cage is Japanese
                                  And is not an idea:
He is sun on snow.
                            Sun and snow are not the same:
Sun is snow and snow is snow
                                              Or
Sun is not snow and snow is not snow
Or
    John Cage is not American
U.S.A. is determined to keep the Free World free,
U.S.A. determined)
                              Or
John Cage is American
                                   (That the U.S.A. may become
Just another part of the world.
                                                 No more, no less.)
Snow is not sun
                        Music is not silence
Sun is snow
                  Silence is music
(The situation must be Yes-and-No
                                                       Not either-or)
Between silence and music
                                        Art and life
Snow and sun
                      There is a man
This man is John Cage
                                  (Committed
To the nothing in between)
                                           He says a word
Not snow not sun
                           One word
Which is not
                   Silence:
A year from Monday you will hear it.

The afternoon has become invisible.
.
--Octavio Paz

tr. Monique Fong Wust and G. Aroul
fr. Configurations [New York: New Directions, 1978]

Hal

Halvard Johnson
===============
email: halvard at earthlink.net
        halvard at gmail.com
website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard




From ccooley  Thu Aug 26 14:11:55 2004
From: ccooley (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:11:55 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] Report from Sligo...  
Message-ID: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHAEJGCPAA.ccooley@overdomain.com>

First of all, to conclude a discussion everyone's forgotten:
Poetic Performance, Seamus vs. Jorie: and the winner is...

Brendan Kennelly!

Have you seen Mr. K perform?
Besides being the only person I've seen make people laugh and cry in the
same poetry reading, to memorize a 2-hour performance, he also wrote an epic
poem that became a bestseller (_The Book of Judas_).

Of course it isn't fair that he gets to live in Ireland where the audience
for poetry has enthusiasm necessary to buy that many copies of an epic poem.
But many Irish poets, those not in self-imposed exile, do live in Ireland.
So unfair!  My landlady, Mairead, was usually awake and sitting on the couch
with a friend or two when I came home (at whatever hour) and would ask,
'Would ya like just a bit a somethin?' and we'd stay up drinking and
discussing why they preferred O'Casey to Synge, how Diarmuid McMurrough
brought the Norman in, what's the meaning, history and pronunciation of Ath
Cliath, and wasn't (Joyce lecturer) David Norris a stitch with his 'shite
and onions'?  The experience answered my question as to why a
disproportionate number of great writers are Irish: they play to Mairead and
her friends.

I recommend the Yeats Summer School very highly-- the poetry workshop was
amazing...JG is insightful, funny, direct, informed and knows what can (from
what cannot) be taught and how to teach it.  Lecturers were (mostly)
brilliant, play production by Sam McCready(_The Dreaming of the Bones_) was
excellent.  There was also a production of "Cat and the Moon" as well as
film versions of three other Yeats plays.  Seamus Heaney did mill about and
make himself surprisingly available.  It was possible to take in Yeats from
9am to 3am, and that is the schedule that many of us kept.  It was worth the
price just to walk out of a lecture on Yeats and the Occult into the
occasional Sligo sunshine and to see Ben Bulben standing on the horizon.















From JforJames  Fri Aug 27 20:11:32 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:11:32 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Edwin Williamson's Borges biography 
Message-ID: <1a5.2793d335.2e6127b4@aol.com>

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040815/news_lz1v15magic.html

Moreover, Williamson has discovered a major thread in Borges' life. From the 
Preface: 

"I began to suspect that [Borges'] insistence on amending or erasing his 
youthful writings was motivated not so much by an aversion to his early poetics as 
by a wish to cover up some matter that had caused him particular pain. In due 
course I was able to gather evidence that revealed that he had indeed 
undergone an experience in his mid-twenties that had driven him to the brink of 
suicide and almost destroyed him as a writer. Borges never directly spoke of this 
experience, but it became evident that it had been pivotal to his development, 
for it was as a result of that trauma that he ceased being a poet, and it was 
largely on account of it that he discovered the kind of writing that would 
eventually make his name." 

    
    

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From JforJames  Fri Aug 27 20:11:39 2004
From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:11:39 EDT
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poland Buries Nobel Poet Milosz Amid Controversy
Message-ID: <1d4.297b85eb.2e6127bb@aol.com>

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040827/en_nm/people_milosz_dc_2

Poland Buries Nobel Poet Milosz Amid Controversy

Fri Aug 27, 3:04 PM ET  Reuters 

By Wojciech Zurawski 

KRAKOW, Poland (Reuters) - Thousands of Poles turned out to mourn Nobel 
Prize-winning poet Czeslaw Milosz Friday, ignoring protests from a small group of 
conservatives who opposed his burial alongside national heroes. 
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From alphavil  Sat Aug 28 01:27:37 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 01:27:37 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Who's got Che's watch?
In-Reply-To: <20040826173522.29246.qmail@web40421.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040826173522.29246.qmail@web40421.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <413017C9.1010901@ix.netcom.com>

Four Terrorists Join GOP Platform:
A Present For Poppy; Bush Jr.'s White House Arranges Pardons For Some Of 
Bush Sr.'s Favorite Terrorists:
"It must be the Old Butcher's birthday," Scott McLellan Tells Press:
Administration Denies U.S. Taxpayer Bank Role in Cuban Exiles' Pardon:
Panama Frees 4 Convicted in Plot To Kill Civilians, Bombing of Airliner

By GLENN KEESTER
The Assassinated Press Writer
Friday, August 27, 2004

http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/keester3.htm





From marcus  Sat Aug 28 08:50:41 2004
From: marcus (Marcus Bales)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:50:41 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poland Buries Nobel Poet
In-Reply-To: <1d4.297b85eb.2e6127bb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>

Poland Buries Nobel Poet. Had to. Dead, you know.







From clitophon  Sat Aug 28 09:12:59 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 06:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] the engine
In-Reply-To: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040828131259.76667.qmail@web40402.mail.yahoo.com>

I've noticed that my website: www.theengine.net
is censored by the NI state.  In other words it cannot
be accessed in a public library or in any other public
space.  This is illegal because of the inalienable
human right to free speech.  Can you tell as many
people as you know about this and ask them to enter
the website and leave a comment?
best wishes,
Paul Murphy


	
		
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From marcus  Sat Aug 28 09:28:12 2004
From: marcus (Marcus Bales)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 09:28:12 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] the engine
In-Reply-To: <20040828131259.76667.qmail@web40402.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>
Message-ID: <4130502C.31429.32DBEE@localhost>

On 28 Aug 2004 at 6:12, Paul Murphy wrote:
> I've noticed that my website: www.theengine.net
> is censored by the NI state.  In other words it cannot
> be accessed in a public library or in any other public
> space.  This is illegal because of the inalienable
> human right to free speech.<

This is an example of confusion between "illegal" and "immoral" that 
will not stand you in good stead in this matter. A little research 
into what "illegal" means, and how it differs from claims of 
"immoral", may be in order.

Marcus








From alphavil  Sat Aug 28 10:20:04 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:20:04 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poland Buries Nobel Poet
In-Reply-To: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>
References: <41304761.18711.108340@localhost>
Message-ID: <41309494.4030902@ix.netcom.com>

How could they tell?

Marcus Bales wrote:

>Poland Buries Nobel Poet. Had to. Dead, you know.
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From clitophon  Sat Aug 28 11:54:04 2004
From: clitophon (Paul Murphy)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:54:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] the engine
In-Reply-To: <4130502C.31429.32DBEE@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040828155404.6919.qmail@web40402.mail.yahoo.com>

this is a clear contravention of the protocols of the
European Court of Human Rights
--- Marcus Bales <marcus at designerglass.com> wrote:

> On 28 Aug 2004 at 6:12, Paul Murphy wrote:
> > I've noticed that my website: www.theengine.net
> > is censored by the NI state.  In other words it
> cannot
> > be accessed in a public library or in any other
> public
> > space.  This is illegal because of the inalienable
> > human right to free speech.<
> 
> This is an example of confusion between "illegal"
> and "immoral" that 
> will not stand you in good stead in this matter. A
> little research 
> into what "illegal" means, and how it differs from
> claims of 
> "immoral", may be in order.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 



		
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From grahamd  Sat Aug 28 12:02:35 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:02:35 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] More Milosz
Message-ID: <BD5616CA.ACAC%grahamd@ripon.edu>

 Encounter



          --Czeslaw Milosz (1911-2004)


We were riding through frozen fields in a wagon at dawn.
A red wing rose in the darkness.

And suddenly a hare ran across the road.
One of us pointed to it with his hand.

That was long ago. Today neither of them is alive,
Not the hare, nor the man who made the gesture.

O my love, where are they, where are they going
The flash of a hand, streak of movement, rustle of pebbles.
I ask not in sorrow, but in wonder.


                         Wilno, 1936


====================================================
David Graham
grahamd at ripon.edu
Home Page:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
Poetry Library:
http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
====================================================





From cc  Sat Aug 28 13:13:04 2004
From: cc (Crisman Cooley)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:13:04 -0700
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Poems by others: Octavio Paz,
	"On Reading John Cage"
In-Reply-To: <200408281557.i7SFv1YD024000@wiz.cath.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHKEKECPAA.cc@opus0.com>

Hal, 
My favorite Paz poem!
yrs,Cc




From anny.ballardini  Sat Aug 28 18:45:32 2004
From: anny.ballardini (Anny Ballardini)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 00:45:32 +0200
Subject: [New-Poetry] Edwin Williamson's Borges biography 
References: <1a5.2793d335.2e6127b4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <00fa01c48d50$bacc2e60$1d8e3052@yourpk9x5fuc06>

Thank you for this article, as it might be clear by now, I love Borges' work. I knew of his solitude, which comes back when one dedicates some time to the poet. The fact of knowing that it was triggered by Lange does not change much, maybe makes an event of his life more human and therefore more similar to ours.

But what I wanted to comment is this paragraph:
As he entered old age, and as his blindness continued to envelope him, Borges' political thoughts became enmeshed with a lifetime of private associations and personal disappointments. His late, rather sudden international fame thrust him into the spotlight at a time of intense political activism. Uncomfortable to the point of guilt about the incessant praise being directed at him, he began displaying a contrarian streak during interviews. He angered many, for instance, by dismissing the Malvinas (Falkland Islands) war as "two bald men fighting over a comb." 
I was at the Malvinas or Falkland Islands. I have no idea why people were angered with Borges. I was working on a cruise ship which could not enter the port because of a storm, those who wanted to visit were taken ashore by life boats, I went with the tourists. It was cold, windy, rainy. The town was nothing but a village with one pub and a tiny shop. Everybody went to these two places since there was nothing to visit, and at the pub my friend and I met a guy who took us to his home, offered us a good warm tea, sent his two daughters to the shop to buy chocolate, one of their few goods, from the back-door otherwise we wouldn't have been able to get anything seen the sudden crowd. He was the news-maker of the islands, journalist for the only newspaper, spoke on the radio, and took us for a tour by car. People lived on sheep, the landscape barren without trees. He told us stories about wreckages, ghost ships, of seas. Finally back to his house he didn't even want us to pay for the chocolate his daughters were able to get, we thanked and went to the appointment with the life boats to get back to the ship. 

A couple of years later England and Argentina were throwing bombs on the head of that tiny bunch of shepherds.

This is what I wrote at the time on a newpaper to let people know.

Take care, Anny 

  From: JforJames at aol.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 2:11 AM


  http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040815/news_lz1v15magic.html

  Moreover, Williamson has discovered a major thread in Borges' life. >From the Preface: 

  "I began to suspect that [Borges'] insistence on amending or erasing his youthful writings was motivated not so much by an aversion to his early poetics as by a wish to cover up some matter that had caused him particular pain. In due course I was able to gather evidence that revealed that he had indeed undergone an experience in his mid-twenties that had driven him to the brink of suicide and almost destroyed him as a writer. Borges never directly spoke of this experience, but it became evident that it had been pivotal to his development, for it was as a result of that trauma that he ceased being a poet, and it was largely on account of it that he discovered the kind of writing that would eventually make his name." 







------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  New-Poetry mailing list
  New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
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From alphavil  Sat Aug 28 18:52:36 2004
From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 18:52:36 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] More Milosz
In-Reply-To: <BD5616CA.ACAC%grahamd@ripon.edu>
References: <BD5616CA.ACAC%grahamd@ripon.edu>
Message-ID: <41310CB4.8010703@ix.netcom.com>

Czeslaw Milosz brings back one singular, fond moment for some of the 
poets and readers of poetry in Washington DC---the day we drove David 
Streitfeld of the Washington Post from the walls of our revered city.

David was a long time reviewer and literary commentator for the Post who 
was not shy in expressing his taste in bitterly dismissive tones. David 
derided the moderns specifically Joyce and Pound. When the opportunity 
arose he ridiculed Olson, Zukofsky, Dorn et al, those who followed the 
moderns. He attacked the beats and despised any third world poet who 
decried western capital which translated into he pretty much hated them 
all. Philosophers like Adorno, Lacan, Derrida and Heidegger were subject 
to the inchoate wrath of David. 'France 1968' was such a year and place 
of infamy at the Post and in David's fevered brain, it outscored Germany 
of 1933 for historical scorn.

David never seemed to know much about any of the poetry he criticized 
especially the moderns and backed down when challenged face to face and 
ignored you if you wrote to him at the paper challenging an assertion he 
made. He admitted to me a number of times that he couldn't read Joyce or 
Pound---too willfully difficult. Aime Cesaire or Phan Van Tri were to 
blindly anti-great white hunter for someone who suffered from 
Putz-Schmekelkopf like David.

And after savaging what he could not understand, David always presented 
his universal poetic counterweight to what terrified and intimidated 
him. Yes, Czeslaw Milosz whom David dubbed the greatest poet of the 20th 
century.

After an offhanded and ignorant remark, I think, about Pound or possibly 
Holderlin or Byron, David launched into another paean on the great 
Milosz, proud possessor of the Dynamite Prize and the checklist of world 
insipidity that doubled as his canon.

The city had had enough and anybody who gave a rat's ass about poetry 
other than the usual sychophants, decided to set the record straight and 
wrote Streifeld to the effect that as an arbiter of poetic taste, he was 
limited and limiting.

Two weeks after the spontaneous attck Streitfeld announced he was 
leaving the Post to write about the future of the internet, 
coincidentally about a month before the internet bubble burst. He has 
apparently landed at the L.A. Times. He said poetry was too rough and a 
couple of Washington poets were downright ruffians. He said before he 
left, he was going to burn all of his books with Marxism, 
Deconstruction, Postmodernism and Frankfurt School in the title, to 
which the poet Joe Brennan answered "You should rush over and by those 
books, Parcelli. They're unread. They must be in like new condition."

David had his compacities that were easily outstripped by some of the 
poetic citizenry who didn't have public venues. Always a situation of 
eliticism against simmering discontent.

Its pleasant having David gone. He was replaced by the bland Linton 
Weeks is no more or less knowledgable than Streitfeld, but knows better 
than to throw hacks up in your face as though they are the second coming 
especially around serious working poets who know the value of their 
masters. CP





And

David Graham wrote:

> Encounter
>
>
>
>          --Czeslaw Milosz (1911-2004)
>
>
>We were riding through frozen fields in a wagon at dawn.
>A red wing rose in the darkness.
>
>And suddenly a hare ran across the road.
>One of us pointed to it with his hand.
>
>That was long ago. Today neither of them is alive,
>Not the hare, nor the man who made the gesture.
>
>O my love, where are they, where are they going
>The flash of a hand, streak of movement, rustle of pebbles.
>I ask not in sorrow, but in wonder.
>
>
>                         Wilno, 1936
>
>
>====================================================
>David Graham
>grahamd at ripon.edu
>Home Page:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html
>Poetry Library:
>http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html
>====================================================
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>New-Poetry mailing list
>New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
>http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
>
>  
>



From ron.silliman  Sun Aug 29 06:12:53 2004
From: ron.silliman (Ron)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 06:12:53 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog
Message-ID: <000001c48db0$c2d5d290$6401a8c0@Dell>

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/

RECENT TOPICS:

Greetings from San Antonio

Collaborations of unfathomable familiarity -
Francie Shaw & Bob Perelman's Playing Bodies

David Perry's New Years -
Kicking it up a notch or two

Elizabeth Willis' Meteoric Flowers -
Too much perfection, not enough risk

Joanne Kyger's God Never Dies -
When exactness is everything

Vacation reading list(s)

Two notes on Rem Koolhaas,
Frank Gehry & post-avant architecture
in Seattle

After The Alphabet

Two new important poetry sites:
Mini-mag's PhillySound feature &
audios from the Carrboro (NC) Poetry Festival

http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/






From halvard  Sun Aug 29 09:50:52 2004
From: halvard (Halvard Johnson)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:50:52 -0400
Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Poems by others: Octavio Paz,
	"On Reading John Cage"
In-Reply-To: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHKEKECPAA.cc@opus0.com>
References: <IFEJKAJEJBEOJGHBHOCHKEKECPAA.cc@opus0.com>
Message-ID: <f160a12104082906501befc877@mail.gmail.com>

Glad you're pleased to see it, CC.

Hal

On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:13:04 -0700, Crisman Cooley <cc at opus0.com> wrote:

> Hal,
> My favorite Paz poem!
> yrs,Cc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New-Poetry mailing list
> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu
> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry
> 


-- 
Hal      "Those who cast the ballots decide nothing.
            Those who count the ballots decide everything."
                                    --Joseph Stalin
             

Halvard Johnson
halvard at gmail.com
halvard at earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard



From jnewberry1974  Sun Aug 29 12:00:11 2004
From: jnewberry1974 (Jeff Newberry)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:00:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others:  Philip Levine, "Philosophy Lesson"
Message-ID: <20040829160011.91751.qmail@web52608.mail.yahoo.com>


 

Philosophy Lesson
from *The Mercy*
Philip Levine

After driving all night 
I stopped for coffee and eggs 
at a diner halfway to 
New York City. The waitress 
behind the counter looked up 
from her magazine and said, 
"Look who's here!" clapped her hands 
together and broke into 
a huge smile. "Have I been here 
before?" I asked. "Beats the shit 
out of me," she said and put 
a glass of cloudy water 
in front of me. "What'll it be?" 
One war was closing down 
in Asia to be followed 
by another. No longer 
a kid, I wondered who was 
I that a gray - haired woman 
up all night in a road - side 
hole would greet me like a star. 
"What do you think of Sartre 
and the Existentialists?" 
I asked. "We get the eggs fresh 
from down the road, my old man 
bakes the bread and sweet rolls. 
It's all good." It's not often 
you get the perfect answer 
to such a profound question. 
On the way back to the truck 
I listened to the pebbles 
crunching under my wing-tips, 
watched two huge crows watching me 
from a sad maple, smelled 
the fishy air blowing in 
from Lake Eire, and thought, "Some 
things are too good to be true." 



Jeff Newberry
 
"Sometimes it's not so easy,
especially when your only friend
talks, sees, looks and feels like you,
and you do just the same as him."
--Jimi Hendrix, "My Friend"
		
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From grahamd  Sun Aug 29 13:30:01 2004
From: grahamd (David Graham)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 12:30:01 -0500
Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Philip Levine, "Philosophy Lesson"
In-Reply-To: <20040829160011.91751.qmail@web52608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BD577CC8.AD10%grahamd@ripon.edu>

Thanks for this.  This is one of my favorite recent Levine poems, though I
wish he hadn't thought it necessary to point the moral at the end.  Like
many admirable poets Levine has lost a bit of spark and grown more diffuse
and self-indulgent as he's aged, but I still buy every new book of his in
hardcover.

Here's a favorite of mine:


You Can Have It

 
My brother comes home from work
and climbs the stairs to our room.
I can hear the bed groan and his shoes drop
one by one. You can have it, he says.

The moonlight streams in the window
and his unshaven face is whitened
like the face of the moon. He will sleep
long after noon and waken to find me gone.

Thirty years will pass before I remember
that moment when suddenly I knew each man
has one brother who dies when he sleeps
and sleeps when he rises to face this life,

and that together they are only one man
sharing a heart that always labours, hands
yellowed and cracked, a mouth that gasps
for breath and asks, Am I gonna make it?

All night at the ice plant he had fed
the chute its silvery blocks, and then I
stacked cases of orange soda for the children
of Kentucky, one gray boxcar at a time

with always two more waiting. We were twenty
for such a short time and always in
the wrong clothes, crusted with dirt
and sweat. I think now we were never twenty.

In 1948 the city of Detroit, founded
by de la Mothe Cadillac for the distant purposes
of Henry Ford, no one wakened or died,
no one walked the streets or stoked a furnace,

for there was no such year, and now
that year has fallen off all the old newspapers,
calanders, doctors' appointments, bonds
wed