From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Jun 22 05:06:11 2003 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:06:11 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk References: Message-ID: <044f01c3389d$875dd3c0$a0b5fea9@hamilton2hg13.btinternet.com> A SONG ABOUT SOLDIERS (For Anny) All the King's army came over the hill, marching two by two: There was Henry and George, and Bill and Ben, Smiles on their faces and guns on their backs, off to defend their homes. Handsome and neat were those soldiers arrayed - Ken and Fred, and Jim And Ted, uniforms spruce as a starched bow-tie, The gleam of battle in each one's eye as off to war they went. The crowd went Oh! and the crowd went Ah! the fathers wore proud smiles While mothers dabbed tears but did not fear For this was a Just War as everyone knew: and so the boys marched off. Dead by the river and dead in a tank -- don't even ask which side, For dead is dead, whether Them or Us And God, whoever He is, or where is on both sides. Don't ask which side I am talking about: if you thought that you knew, You were wrong. If you decided either way, And cheered or jeered as your sympathies lay t hen think again. When armies meet and guns snap out, each side must mirror the other. A soldier's a soldier, whatever the colour Of coat he's called on to wear. Justice remains behind the lines. Collateral damage marks the cost, dead civilians and damaged survivors, An instant to ruin what an aeon had built, Desolation all round and inside the heads of those who survive the war. But after all, this is war, my dear, is the price we must pay for - What? Once it was glory and now it is Freedom - what will they call it next time? simply: The War. All the King's horses and all the King's men Won't put our souls together again. ROBIN HAMILTON From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Sun Jun 22 05:43:17 2003 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:43:17 +0100 Subject: A SONG ABOUT SOLDIERS // Re: [New-Poetry] Ultra-Talk References: <044f01c3389d$875dd3c0$a0b5fea9@hamilton2hg13.btinternet.com> Message-ID: <046901c338a2$b69b6300$a0b5fea9@hamilton2hg13.btinternet.com> Apologies for highjacking a thread -- my finger slipped before I remembered to retitle -- the subject line should have read: A SONG ABOUT SOLDIERS ... obviously. :-( Robin From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jun 1 08:35:11 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:35:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Discursiveness References: <1cd.ab3e9ad.2c09bdbc@aol.com> Message-ID: <005b01c3283a$3f21cda0$7f08fea9@j1c1k6> No matter the style - what good is it if the masses don't get it? If only poets understand the poem - what matters the direction? duncan - way behind - mcgehee A few Retaliatory Thoughts from an Elitist (1) If I and others like me did not write for other poets, who would? I have no problem with this, but as an addendum, I think this would relegate poetry to fewer and fewer ears/eyes and eventually obscurity. See my comment on van Gogh and Cezanne. As comedy has evolved from making light of official policies; with the intent to bring to light aberrant policies most would find unacceptable, to trash talk about the latest success story who got their 15 minutes of fame. I don't follow you here. Are you talking about comedy as practiced by Aristophanes or by contemporary stand-up comedians? In either case, you're wrong, it seems to me: comedy have always covered a lot more topics than politics. This suggests only that the evolvement of poetry has followed; historically, the evolvement of comedy. This is my correlation and does not represent this stations beliefs. (2) What have the masses ever done for me that I should entertain them with my poetry? What has a woman done for you to entertain her with your poetry? In for a penny, in for a pound. That's personal. Also irrelevant. My point is that I want to write for those, including women, who have done things for me (like write poems I've liked), not for those who haven't, such as the masses (among whom are women). It is, of course, a half-truth since even the masses have done things for me, albeit at too high a price most of the time. (3) Just about all great art is for everyone--as the careers of van Gogh and Cezanne demonstrate; who says it should be for everyone immediately? As long as you write for other poets - this based only on the narrow confines of #1 - immediacy appears to be out of the question. I'd unconfined it at least to the extent of including people with the ability to appreciate poetry that poets have, or should have. And you're wrong about immediacy being out of the question. For instance, I often compose visual poems that fellow visual poems get at once but "ordinary people" don't get even after I've explained to them what's going on. You have to understand, by the way, that I'm merely arguing that it's better to write for poets than for the masses; it's best, I think, to try to write for both--by having parts of poems, and even whole poems, that are accessible to just about everyone. A poem ought also to have parts that are not understandable to anyone, and parts that require hard work to understand. Eventually, your poetry will be absorbed by others, but will it be appreciated, circulated or even taught in school? Eventually, yes (I hope). In fact, a friend of mine who just published my TAXONOMY, is going to use some of my writings as part of the basis of a college course he's going to teach. Another friend has written a book of mathematical poems for children inspired, to a degree, by some of my much more complex ones. It's a selection of a chirldrens book club and getting excellent reviews, so will probably make school libraries and even be used in classes (as some of her more conventional children's books are). While I don't suggest poetry should be geared toward demographics with market share in mind, I feel it could be catered to the masses if one understands their words/vibe. Is poetry good only if it sells? Of course not, unless you need to make a living. If this is the case, well - too bad for the masses - another Harlequin Romance. Poetry has more rules than Mikimoto has pearls. Poetry suffers from this. Poetry has no rules, just guidelines you can follow or not follow, as you please. Poets suffer from trying to hard to follow various rules--their readers suffer from their following too few. (4) It is better to give great pleasure to the few who are capable of experiencing it to the full than small pleasure to the many who will pop off to other pleasures shallowly experienced almost at once. This appears to shift from elitism to sophism. Am I correct or do I miss something? duncan Well, it's a thought much more than an argument, so I don't think you can call it sophistry. Nor does something's being sophistry preclude it from being elitist. Anyway, it's merely an expression of a point of view. I believe, when in my objective mode, that writing small for the many is as valid as writing large for the few, and so are all the compromises most of us try in between those extremes. As for the poem that follows, all I'll say is that it doesn't seem to have been written for poets. --Bob G. Ode on Satan's Power At a local bistro's Christmas sing-along, the new age pianist leads us in a pan-cultural brew of seasonal songs, the Ramadan chant being my personal favorite, though the Kwanza lullaby and Hanukkah round are very interesting. Let's face it, most of us are there for the carols we set to memory in childhood though some lyrics have been changed, so when we sing "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen," we're transformed into a roomful of slightly tipsy middle-class gentlepeople who are longing to be saved from hopelessness instead of Satan's power when we were gone astray, but I, for one, sing out Satan's power as do most of the gentlepeople, women and men, something I find myself pondering a few days later, while my profoundly worried nephew, Henry, and I embark on our annual blitzkrieg of baking, punctuated by Henry's high-speed philosophical questioning, such as, Where do we go when we die? Pressing my collection of cookie cutters-trees, snowflakes, Santas-into fragrant ginger dough, I want to say, Who cares? Carpe diem, buster, though, of course, I'm way too scarred by pop psychology to utter half the nutty things that pop up like weeds in the 18th century garden of my brain. Eight- year-olds need their questions answered, I suppose, but not by me. I say, "Let's watch some TV," an instrument of Satan if ever there was one. Bullitt's on-Steve McQueen in his prime. I love this movie-equal waves of sorrow and carnage washed up on a hokey late- sixties beach of masculine cool. McQueen is Bullitt, and Jacqueline Bisset's his girl. Henry and I start watching during the scene where she is driving Bullitt around because, if I remember correctly, he's totaled not just one but several cars, in at least as many now-famous chases. Jackie drops Bullitt at a hotel, where he finds a girl, newly dead, throat circled with purple fingerprints like grape jam stains. "What happened to her?" Henry asks, frowning. I think, Oh, shit, this is not an officially approved nephew-aunt Christmas activity. If I don't make a big deal of it, maybe he won't tell his mother. "Someone strangled her," I say. "What's strangled?" he asks, and I see my sister has chosen not to threaten her child as our own dear mother routinely threatened us. Driven crazy she browbeat us with strangulation, being slapped silly, public humiliation, murder, and eternal damnation. Perhaps because Henry's her only child, my sister can afford to be gentler with her son or maybe it's because two months before he was born she almost lost him, ending up in the hospital, hooked to machines, ordered to bed for the final wrenching weeks. Maybe that's why the story of the Christ child speaks to us. All parents wonder how the world will treat their tender babe. Like Lorca, will he become a great poet, then end up in a mass grave? Only German philosophers think more about death than Henry Gwynn. "Why did he strangle her?" he asks, face formidable as Hegel's. Satan's power, I want to say, but mumble "It's just a movie, not real." Steve McQueen is dodging a plane, and I remember reading he did his own stunts, which I tell Henry, but he's still in that hotel room. "If she was alive, how'd she get her eyes to roll back into her head?" I'm thinking of pornography, snuff movies, all the things I never want him to see or even know about in this tawdry world. "Honey, it's a major motion picture. Even in a small part an actress has to be great." He nods and takes a bite off Santa's head. "She was a pretty good actress." You bet your booty, and I realize out of the blue Santa is an anagram for Satan. No way am I going to explain anagrams or Herr Satan, though how wonderful to have such a nemesis- a fallen seraph one of heaven's bright, bright stars- in a battle with Jehovah for our souls, rather than the calendar's increasing speed like a roller coaster run amok through a fun park of lost dreams, lost landscapes, and children, growing up faster than we thought possible in the last terrible days before their birth. Barbara Hamby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Sun Jun 1 09:29:02 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 06:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: bad metaphor Message-ID: <20030601132902.4E0173B03@sitemail.everyone.net> To: [New-Poetry], All, So, pray tell, what makes a metaphor good/bad? Imagery, repitition, recognition, appropriateness, personal experience, transferability, or the lack of any/all of the above? Perhaps Stanley's take on the night is that of a large orange moon that is so firmly etched in his mind that it becomes moon/orange, (both color and fruit), brow/mind. Makes sense to me. "The night nailed like an orange to my brow." Freshly Squeezed Putting words that rhyme together seems to be so glib. Either I am past my prime, or the poetic pot needs a lid. Someone should invent a word to rhyme with orange, is that absurd? No crises in mid-life or line, oranges there are too sub-lime. To open lines of rhymes that say orange, fruit or color, is okay. Orange marmalade on toast, may even be the thing to start your day. There's seldom any citric-acid splash from orange juice, freshly squeezed, in a glass. ? 2001 by Robert R. Cobb Poetry Catamaran "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the 'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" Robert R. Cobb AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. http://rrcobb.tripod.com --- David Graham wrote: >I agree with Finnegan--I would hope to be slow to label a metaphor bad, >given my many blind spots and my vast ignorance; and I wouldn't necessarily >make incongruity per se the criterion for judging a metaphor as bad, and >yes, we must closely consider the context. But unless we are prepared to >make such judgments I don't see much point in appreciating poetry as an art. > >I'm always struck especially by stinky lines written by otherwise strong >poets. Stanley Kunitz, for example, has a truly horrid line in one poem: > >"The night nailed like an orange to my brow." > >It makes little sense in context, but clearly the poet is just in love with >it: I read an interview once where he was asked about it, and his answer >struck me as gibberish. He just loved the line, for whatever dotty personal >reasons. > >==================================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu >Home Page: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >Poetry Library: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >==================================================== > >>> >> Gabe, I'm not ready to completely surrender critical judgment >> in these matters. And I can't see a benefit in desensitizing >> our tastes as readers or allowing ourselves to be inured to >> the point that certain aspects of poetry no longer register >> as poor or horrid. A metaphor could be bad, likewise, when the >> elements relate too readily. So, I agree that incongruity of the >> elements makes for a good (bold/audacious) metaphor. >> But for me a matter of tensile strength: Can the link sustain >> the strain of a metaphor's divergent elements? My tolerance, >> in this case, is less than yours or Bob's. >> Of course, context (of the piece and of the body of an author's work) >> make a world of difference. Has the reader become so taken >> with (been so persuaded by) the poetry that nothing would surprise >> her/him unhappily? Perhaps we all have few poets whose work >> has so endeared itself to us, so well earned our respect, that even >> obvious missteps or oversteps or pratfalls in the writing still manage >> to delight us, because they seem inevitable given the risks >> that writer is wont to run. >> Finnegan > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sun Jun 1 10:52:53 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 09:52:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hello, War Supporters Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030601094432.011c9c28@mail.ilstu.edu> It'd be nice to hear from Henry and others (but not, please, from the two white males on new-poetry who love calling others "disingenuos" or for the guy who calls anyone not pro-war "seditious") who supported this illegal, harmful and catastrophic invasion of Iraq, to hear from Henry and the other war supporters about the utter failure of USUK/Bush/Blair/Cheney/Rumsfeld to find WMD -- and about the now widespread public outcry of the US intelligence community against the Bush/Blair administrations and their manufacture of facts and manipulation of "the data stream." Here's a poem, too: Body my house my horse my hound what will I do when you are fallen Where will I sleep How will I ride What will I hunt Where can I go without my mount all eager and quick How will I know in thicket ahead is danger or treasure when Body my good bright dog is dead How will it be to lie in the sky without roof or door and wind for an eye With cloud for shift how will I hide? -- May Swenson _____________________________________________________ "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jun 1 12:04:15 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:04:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: bad metaphor References: <20030601132902.4E0173B03@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: <002a01c32857$73f7eec0$0bfafea9@j1c1k6> To: [New-Poetry], All, So, pray tell, what makes a metaphor good/bad? Imagery, repitition, recognition, appropriateness, personal experience, transferability, or the lack of any/all of the above? ***I think you left out the most important one: freshness. Appropriateness in the opinion of the consensus of knowledgeable readers would be second. Archetypal size or universailty would be third.**** Perhaps Stanley's take on the night is that of a large orange moon that is so firmly etched in his mind that it becomes moon/orange, (both color and fruit), brow/mind. Makes sense to me. "The night nailed like an orange to my brow." ****except that he's talking about the night, not an orange, and there's too much tactuality in the image to work for an equation to night, I would think. Night might be as soft as an orange, and slam into one almost as painfully as a nail, though not, I would think, at one small point only. SHouldda been a crate of oranges . . . ****someone gave an explanation of this as connected to a childhood experience of the poet when he actually had an orange nailed to his forehead. If that was mentioned in the poem, then it could work--a particular night felt to him like the nailed orange did. --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jun 1 12:09:56 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:09:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hello, War Supporters References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030601094432.011c9c28@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <003d01c32858$3f1b6960$0bfafea9@j1c1k6> I supported the war, but now that no weapons of mass destruction have been found, I think we should find Saddam and give him back his country. Maybe he'll allow us to if we throw in Israel, too. --Bob G. From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Jun 1 12:38:11 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:38:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: bad metaphor In-Reply-To: <002a01c32857$73f7eec0$0bfafea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: { ****except that he's talking about the night, not an orange, and there's too { much tactuality in the image to work for an equation to night, I would { think. Night might be as soft as an orange, and slam into one almost as { painfully as a nail, though not, I would think, at one small point only. { SHouldda been a crate of oranges . . . Metaphors = equations? I don't think so. But night's been compared to many other things it seems you might object to. How about, for example, "a patient etherised upon a table"? Hal "I think pigs should be allowed to run free--just like politicians." --Edna Buchanan Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Jun 1 12:47:58 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 12:47:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] FYI: Noam Chomsky interview live on C-Span2 right now Message-ID: Brian Lamb is interviewing Noam Chomsky live right now (12:45 EDT), and it will continue for another two hours plus. It's on C-Span2. Hal Actual Product May Vary from Photos Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Jun 1 13:00:30 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 12:00:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ai's Guadalajara Hospital In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know what book that poem might be in, but I note that Ai's new & selected poems, *Vice*, is available from Daedalus Books online for a mere $3.98. http://www.daedalusbooks.com Along with Lorca, Neruda, Rich, and many other goodies. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== > From: "jason huff" > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:00:44 -0500 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Ai's Guadalajara Hospital > > I tried to find the book that had Ai's poem ?Guadalajara Hospital? in it, > and I can't seem to find it. can anyone post the poem for me? > > thanks, > jason > From adead_poet at hotmail.com Sun Jun 1 14:38:14 2003 From: adead_poet at hotmail.com (jason huff) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 13:38:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ai's Guadalajara Hospital Message-ID: I have vice. i looked, it's not in there. but thanks, i'll definitely have to order some of those other books. that's a great price. jason >From: David Graham >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >To: >Subject: [New-Poetry] Ai's Guadalajara Hospital >Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 12:00:30 -0500 > >I don't know what book that poem might be in, but I note that Ai's new & >selected poems, *Vice*, is available from Daedalus Books online for a mere >$3.98. > >http://www.daedalusbooks.com > >Along with Lorca, Neruda, Rich, and many other goodies. > >==================================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu >Home Page: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >Poetry Library: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >==================================================== > > > > From: "jason huff" > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:00:44 -0500 > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Ai's Guadalajara Hospital > > > > I tried to find the book that had Ai's poem ?Guadalajara Hospital? in >it, > > and I can't seem to find it. can anyone post the poem for me? > > > > thanks, > > jason > > > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From adead_poet at hotmail.com Sun Jun 1 15:15:04 2003 From: adead_poet at hotmail.com (jason huff) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:15:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] robin hood ballads Message-ID: I read my Dover Thrift editon of Child's ballads. Not a whole lot there, but it's a nice introduction. It mentioned in the intro the long ballads of the Robin Hood cycle that couldn't be included in this edition. Is there a web page I can find them. I tried to google it, but I'm sure you can imagine how many pages turned up. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, jason _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From adead_poet at hotmail.com Sun Jun 1 15:18:10 2003 From: adead_poet at hotmail.com (jason huff) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:18:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] twain's 'war prayer' Message-ID: I picked up the Perennial edition of Twain's "The War Prayer", with the John Groth drawings. It's a good little book. But I have a question about it. They split the lines so that it is written in poem format, but I've looked on the internet, and everywhere else I've seen it as prose. Does anyone know if Twain wrote this as poetry or prose? thanks again, jason _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Jun 1 15:21:14 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:21:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hyperblurb du jour Message-ID: From pihel_e at pipeline.com Sun Jun 1 17:09:34 2003 From: pihel_e at pipeline.com (Erik Pihel) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:09:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] twain's 'war prayer' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c32882$1aa5aa30$36191f43@aoidos> In the Library of America edition of Twain's *Collected Tales, Sketches, Speeches, & Essays 1891-1910,* "The War Prayer" is in prose. -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of jason huff Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 3:18 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] twain's 'war prayer' I picked up the Perennial edition of Twain's "The War Prayer", with the John Groth drawings. It's a good little book. But I have a question about it. They split the lines so that it is written in poem format, but I've looked on the internet, and everywhere else I've seen it as prose. Does anyone know if Twain wrote this as poetry or prose? thanks again, jason _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Jun 1 17:55:06 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 17:55:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: bad metaphor References: Message-ID: <005201c32888$777ab6a0$0bfafea9@j1c1k6> > { ****except that he's talking about the night, not an orange, and there's too > { much tactuality in the image to work for an equation (of it) to night, I would > { think. Night might be as soft as an orange, and slam into one almost as > { painfully as a nail, though not, I would think, at one small point only. > { Shouldda been a crate of oranges . . . > > Metaphors = equations? I don't think so. See clarification above. > But night's been compared to many other things it seems you > might object to. How about, for example, "a patient etherised > upon a table"? No problem. Sky = table; evening (spread out) = human being (spread out); and evenings can be inert-seeming. like a person etherised. Do you really think the two metaphors equally appropriate?! --Bob G. From JackTar at aol.com Sun Jun 1 19:25:11 2003 From: JackTar at aol.com (JackTar at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 19:25:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Hello, War Supporters Message-ID: <1d6.ab2dfc0.2c0be557@aol.com> In a message dated 6/1/2003 10:56:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gmguddi at ilstu.edu writes: > It'd be nice to hear from Henry and others (but not, please, from the two > white males on new-poetry who love calling others "disingenuos" or for the > guy who calls anyone not pro-war "seditious") who supported this illegal, > harmful and catastrophic invasion of Iraq, to hear from Henry and the other > war supporters about the utter failure of USUK/Bush/Blair/Cheney/Rumsfeld > to find WMD -- and about the now widespread public outcry of the US > intelligence community against the Bush/Blair administrations and their > manufacture of facts and manipulation of "the data stream." > Well, I supported the action taken against Iraq. I never figured it was about WMDs. I always felt it was about cleaning up the mess Reagan and Rumsfeld created in the early 80s. this illegal, harmful and catastrophic invasion of Iraq - will in time prove a boon to the oppressed and repressed people of Iraq who have been freed from the tyranny of Saddam's regime. Your disapproval of the actions taken against Iraq is tantamount to approval of the oppression and repression of the people in Iraq. As to "the now widespread public outcry of the US intelligence community against the Bush/Blair administrations and their manufacture of facts and manipulation of "the data stream." I don't see it this way. It seems the hew and cry is against the intelligence community and not so much against Bush/Blair. "manufacture of facts and manipulation of "the data stream." US Administrations, both Democrat and Republican have done this since at least the end of WWII and probably longer than that. duncan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcus at designerglass.com Sun Jun 1 21:07:31 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (marcus at designerglass.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 01:07:31 GMT Subject: [New-Poetry] bad metaphor Message-ID: <200306020104.h5214KST015431@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Marcus Bales: > This is mere rhetorical substitution of one set of terms for another, > because it's still a judgment of the same kind, whether one finds it > "good", finds it "helps me live", or finds it "useful": a judgment > the individual makes within the cultural context in which he or she > makes the judgment. Chris Lott: > On the other hand, most of us wouldn't be on this list if we didn't believe > in the power of words. Rhetoric can be important, whether as a guide or > indicator. Intellectually I agree with you, and have said so, but > emotionally I think part of me agrees with Gabe's position because, in our > day-to-day lives as writers, poets, readers, and community participants, how > we approach things, even to the same end, takes on a heightened approach.<< Rhetoric _is_ important -- but mere rhetoric, which is Gabe's specialty, produces leaden prose and slogging verse top-heavy with agenda-driven jargon and frequent use of name-calling and other ad hominem attacks. Occasionally it's ... ahem ... _useful_ to point out the mereness of the mere rhetoric so often employed. The reason that political poetry is so bad is pretty much the same reason that political prose is so bad: there's no art involved. It's so much merely the mereness of infantries of jargon lit with explosions of name-calling amid the rattle of fallacies. Gabe doesn't want to think about the issues, or offer nuanced opinions about the morality of action and potential action -- he wants to silence people: witness Gabe's recent invitation to participants -- except for those who do not agree with him! And all this is accomplished in a brutally artless manner in an ugly tone of clique-y partisanship. Gabe's mere rhetoric is worse than the Bush League's because he ought to know better. The Bush League's strategists may lie, cheat, and steal rhetorically, but Gabe's notion that since they do that is license for him and his cronies to lie more and cheat worse is appalling. From marcus at designerglass.com Sun Jun 1 21:07:31 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (marcus at designerglass.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 01:07:31 GMT Subject: [New-Poetry] bad metaphor Message-ID: <200306020104.h5214KST015432@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Marcus Bales: > This is mere rhetorical substitution of one set of terms for another, > because it's still a judgment of the same kind, whether one finds it > "good", finds it "helps me live", or finds it "useful": a judgment > the individual makes within the cultural context in which he or she > makes the judgment. Chris Lott: > On the other hand, most of us wouldn't be on this list if we didn't believe > in the power of words. Rhetoric can be important, whether as a guide or > indicator. Intellectually I agree with you, and have said so, but > emotionally I think part of me agrees with Gabe's position because, in our > day-to-day lives as writers, poets, readers, and community participants, how > we approach things, even to the same end, takes on a heightened approach.<< Rhetoric _is_ important -- but mere rhetoric, which is Gabe's specialty, produces leaden prose and slogging verse top-heavy with agenda-driven jargon and frequent use of name-calling and other ad hominem attacks. Occasionally it's ... ahem ... _useful_ to point out the mereness of the mere rhetoric so often employed. The reason that political poetry is so bad is pretty much the same reason that political prose is so bad: there's no art involved. It's so much merely the mereness of infantries of jargon lit with explosions of name-calling amid the rattle of fallacies. Gabe doesn't want to think about the issues, or offer nuanced opinions about the morality of action and potential action -- he wants to silence people: witness Gabe's recent invitation to participants -- except for those who do not agree with him! And all this is accomplished in a brutally artless manner in an ugly tone of clique-y partisanship. Gabe's mere rhetoric is worse than the Bush League's because he ought to know better. The Bush League's strategists may lie, cheat, and steal rhetorically, but Gabe's notion that since they do that is license for him and his cronies to lie more and cheat worse is appalling. From poemlady at cox.net Sun Jun 1 21:13:39 2003 From: poemlady at cox.net (Audrey Friedman) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 21:13:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] In the Photograph Album References: <12e.2b33d756.2c095b37@aol.com> Message-ID: <007c01c328a4$330d67d0$f0430e44@Zoom> IN THE PHOTOGRAPH ALBUM Grandpa is no longer dead, but dressed in a fine wool suit. He presides over the dinner table while Grandma shuttles to serve, and gazes upon us as if we were each a continent, and together the whole world was indeed his. I guess Grandpa knew nothing of continental drift, of plates in constant horizontal movement. Continents, after all, are pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that have been taken apart in other eras, with coastlines that would almost click if pushed back together. We grind and bump, create seismic pressure. New seas are birthed between us. Your daughters draw together after second thoughts, and the pressure swells mountains Himalaya high. This ritual, it's nothing new, nothing that hasn't been going on since the beginning. Things bigger than we are feel the forces, the movement of the plates. Someday, Grandpa, Italy will lose its boot, California its tip, but on the bright side, Australia and Asia might become one. From RifkaC at aol.com Sun Jun 1 22:24:23 2003 From: RifkaC at aol.com (RifkaC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:24:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #1536 - 15 msgs Message-ID: <95.2e161329.2c0c0f57@aol.com> In a message dated 6/1/03 9:16:31 PM, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu writes: << wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/l >> Please unsubscribe me. I don't know what this is about but it's not poetry. From ron.silliman at verizon.net Mon Jun 2 07:30:23 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 07:30:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] On Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <000001c328fa$6006f6b0$3efef343@Dell> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ John Wieners early, John Wieners late - INSTANTER! Francis Ponge & the found form of the carnation Francis Ponge: a text that exists solely as memory David Pavelich's Outlining: articulating the process of the poem Robin Blaser & Meredith Quartermain: Wanderful parallelograms Rob Stanton reading Anne Carson & doubt vs. error Kit Robinson's 9:45 & langpo's relation to the New York School Certainty is not the opposite of doubt, but rather certainty is the opposite of complexity - (the far rights' war on complexity) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Over 50,000 hits since September 2002 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 2 09:10:13 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 09:10:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] On Silliman's Blog References: <000001c328fa$6006f6b0$3efef343@Dell> Message-ID: <005401c32908$4f04d5e0$d28efea9@j1c1k6> > Certainty is not the opposite > of doubt, > but rather > certainty is the opposite > of complexity - > (the far rights' war > on complexity) Ah, but the far left wars on many complexities, too, such as capitalism, which is very messy. It should also be remembered that not everything IS complex. And that it is possible to be certain about complexities, validly certain. --Bob G., 2-winged extremist From Henry_Gould at brown.edu Mon Jun 2 10:56:53 2003 From: Henry_Gould at brown.edu (Henry Gould) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:56:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more about war Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030602103222.00adf320@postoffice.brown.edu> Gabriel, I'm only sending this one post on this thread, unless we can start thinking & talking about it in terms of poetry. The only reason I started posting on it in the first place was, because the assumption that all "bien-pensant" poets would automatically be against the war led to sloppy thinking. I agree with Duncan. As I see it, the debate over proper justifications for the Iraq war is basically a debate about whether the Bush administration produced successful or acceptable diplomatic and political cover for their actions in a war which had already started. The war started on 9/11, and was declared in Bush's State of the Union (2002) in which he declared war against terrorism and states that supported it. It is a new kind of "asymmetric" war : much has been made of the advantages of Al Qaeda type groups, their global networking and adaptability; nevertheless, their lack of state support is probably their greatest weakness, and the Bush focus on those few states that do openly (more or less) support terrorism was simply a practical strategy. I think it's too early yet to argue that Saddam had no WMD capacity. But the discourse & arguments applied at the UN for diplomatic purposes are not exactly the same as the core logic or justification for the war itself. You can blame the Bush administration for slippery rhetoric used to win a case, or lack of evidence to support that case; but don't forget that the US justification for going to war was not dependent on UN approval or approval of bien-pensants like yourself. War was undertaken against Saddam Hussein, with support of congress & a majority of the electorate, for a number of reasons, the most important one being that, in the context of an ongoing global war against terrorism rooted in fundamentalist Islamic ideology, the presence of a gruesomely oppressive, anti-American, pro-Al Qaeda dictatorship at the center of the Middle East, with proven interest & capability to produce WMDs, and already in violation of UN sanctions, fulfilled all the requirements laid out in the State of the Union address for US military action - requirements in my view fully justified by the events of 9/11. Does war solve ultimate problems of poverty, injustice, ignorance, misunderstanding, hatred ? No. (That's a spiritual effort in which poetry might have a minor role.) Did the US start this war? No. Is the Bush administration willing to spin it & massage it for political gain? Probably. Does this mean the war is unjustified? No. That's it for me. Henry ******************************************************** HG afloat: http://hgpoetics.blogspot.com * www.nedgemagazine.com * www.xlibris.com/HenryGould.html www.spuytenduyvil.net * http://jacketmagazine.com/ * www.unf.edu/mudlark "Read it back to me, quietly, quietly." - O. Mandelstam From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Jun 2 11:47:06 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 10:47:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hardy perennial Message-ID: Not to go nuts with my Writer's Almanac subscription or anything, but I can't resist noting that it is Thomas Hardy's birthday today. The Self-Unseeing Here is the ancient floor, Footworn and hollowed and thin, Here was the former door Where the dead feet walked in. She sat here in her chair, Smiling into the fire; He who played stood there, Bowing it higher and higher. Childlike, I danced in a dream; Blessings emblazoned that day; Everything glowed with a gleam; Yet we were looking away! Thomas Hardy ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Mon Jun 2 11:57:05 2003 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:57:05 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] more about war References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030602103222.00adf320@postoffice.brown.edu> Message-ID: <007901c32920$54d45640$a0b5fea9@hamilton2hg13.btinternet.com> Henry: I'm in sympathy (though not necessarily complete agreement) with much of what you say. But this: > ... the presence of a gruesomely oppressive, anti-American, pro-Al > Qaeda dictatorship at the center of the Middle East, HAS there been any link proven between Saddam's Iraq and Al-Qaeda, even after the Bush policies practically drove them together? I know this is an old and worn observation, but Al-Qaeda wasn't exactly in favour of secular Islamic states, whether democratic or dictatorial, and Saddam didn't exactly love Muslim fundamentalism. Even when he used it to his purposes, it seems to me it was always carefully controlled, and *inside* Iraq. Robin From mandolin at mac.com Mon Jun 2 12:14:49 2003 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:14:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more about war Message-ID: <5255099.1054570489929.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com> On Monday, June 02, 2003, at 11:57AM, Robin Hamilton wrote: >Henry: > >I'm in sympathy (though not necessarily complete agreement) with much of >what you say. But this: > >> ... the presence of a gruesomely oppressive, anti-American, pro-Al >> Qaeda dictatorship at the center of the Middle East, > >HAS there been any link proven between Saddam's Iraq and Al-Qaeda, even >after the Bush policies practically drove them together? I know this is an >old and worn observation, but Al-Qaeda wasn't exactly in favour of secular >Islamic states, whether democratic or dictatorial, and Saddam didn't exactly >love Muslim fundamentalism. Even when he used it to his purposes, it seems >to me it was always carefully controlled, and *inside* Iraq. > >Robin > > There's not much, if any, evidence linking Sadaam Hussein and Al-Qaeda. However, Iraq did provide $25,000 US to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. They supported and funded terrorism, just not directly against the US. I'm glad Hussein is gone--but I said all along the test for Junior would come after the war. So far he's got a D- at best. Michael From mandolin at mac.com Mon Jun 2 12:24:19 2003 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:24:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] more about war Message-ID: <651804.1054571059430.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com> On Monday, June 02, 2003, at 12:14PM, Michael Snider wrote: > >I'm glad Hussein is gone--but I said all along the test for Junior would come after the war. So far he's got a D- at best. > >Michael On the other hand, there's this report :http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/06/01/wsteyn01.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/06/01/ixnewstop.html Maybe things are just different in the north and west, where there wasn't much fighting. From elemenope at icubed.com Mon Jun 2 01:43:14 2003 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:43:14 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Professor Recracks His Pandora's Box Message-ID: The anti-Blair/Bush/Straw/Rumsfeld naivete of this poster is so egregious that to call him seditious would be to do a disservice to those who have a legitimate chance at being taken seriously by the FBI for threats to the stability of the country. [I agree with Henry Gould's essential assessments. His thinking is sober and mature; probably, we will never again see things the same way, so I am taking an opportunity in the middle of this post to acknowledge Mr. Gould's evaluation of the world war in its present status.] President Bill Clinton in 12/16/1998 announced in an Oval Office address to the nation that he had ordered air strikes against Iraq, "Saddam has failed his once last chance to cooperate with UN Resolutions. Therefore, I, the President, have ordered strikes against nuclear, bio, chem weapons to protect people in the Middle East and around the world." On February 17, 1998, Clinton to Pentagon personnel (12/37 PM EST): "Saddam's son-in-law [who had been developing the bio/chem weapon programs ] defected to Jordan and told us: Iraq was developing WMDs. An offensive bio warfare capability, 2000 gallons anthrax, 157 aerial bombs. UN inspectors have suspicions of more." [When this "guy" went back to Iraq, what happened to him? The "guy" the Professor wants to protect had his son in law killed!] Talk about: > manipulation of "the data stream." The old "Spin Machine" trotted out: >>:(but not, please, from the two >white males on new-poetry who love calling others "disingenuos" [On some lists, the Professor would be ejected for making a "Racist" slur.] and, of course: > >>or for the >guy who calls anyone not pro-war "seditious") [This "guy" is a Fellow in Poetry for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.] Look. In the UN, that Radical Liberal "Democracy" of Dictators and Potentates -- with a disarmament committee headed by (at that time) Baath Party "Diplomats" -- and a human rights committee headed by >> Qaddaffi's gofors, the WMD "reason" for the war was stressed to get the resolutions past these gate keepers. WMDs were not the only reason, nor even the best reason, for the toppling of this psychopathic tyrant. But there are WMDs (Those weapons the Saddamites couldn't destroy in the protracted time period before the Coalition's successful invasion.) hidden in Iraq [see Jack Straw's press release on 6/2/03], just as there were genocidal torture chambers and unmarked human dumping ground cemetaries, and plans for more, just as there were chem/bio weapon labs, hidden inside of slum-like buildings and aboard freight vans, just as there was a real track record of actual use of such weapons on Iraq citizens after the first Gulf War. In my view, Prime Minister Blair, Jack Straw, the American Leadership are waiting until the Pro-Saddamites, anarchists, hard-core Pilger Revo-Leftists, Conservative-haters are all barking simultaneously. Time and again, if the record is looked at carefully, many reasons for the invasion were given, including human rights violations which have all been demonstrated with horrible evidence. [Notice how the Professor has never expressed even a moment's horror at what Hussein did to his people. His entire effort is to cause doubt in the minds of people who cannot bear the weight of mature responsibility in world affairs.] Turkey is singing a different tune these days, by the way. Very sorry, their diplomats reveal, that they didn't open up the Northern Front when necessary as well as backing Powell in the UN in the months before the war, a war which was fully vested in international law according to the rules laid down by the UN with Iraq which Iraq had violated, not the least was its genocide of its own people! [But for the Professor Guddings of this world the Inspector Clouseaus wd hv hd to hv gone in there and discovered the mass graves where people had been plowed under alive in order to have given the okay for an invasion led by Qaddafi, and, I presume, Professor Gudding.] > >>I was a naive fool to be a human shield for Saddam >>By Daniel Pepper >>(Filed: 23/03/2003) >> >>I wanted to join the human shields in Baghdad because it was direct >>action which had a chance of bringing the anti-war movement to the >>forefront of world attention. It was inspiring: the human shield >>volunteers were making a sacrifice for their political views - much >>more of a personal investment than going to a demonstration in >>Washington or London. It was simple - you get on the bus and you >>represent yourself. >> >>So that is exactly what I did on the morning of Saturday, January >>25. I am a 23-year-old Jewish-American photographer living in >>Islington, north London. I had travelled in the Middle East before: >>as a student, I went to the Palestinian West Bank during the >>intifada. I also went to Afghanistan as a photographer for Newsweek. >> >>The human shields appealed to my anti-war stance, but by the time I >>had left Baghdad five weeks later my views had changed drastically. >>I wouldn't say that I was exactly pro-war - no, I am ambivalent - >>but I have a strong desire to see Saddam removed. >> >>We on the bus felt that we were sympathetic to the views of the >>Iraqi civilians, even though we didn't actually know any. The group >>was less interested in standing up for their rights than protesting >>against the US and UK governments. >> >>I was shocked when I first met a pro-war Iraqi in Baghdad - a taxi >>driver taking me back to my hotel late at night. I explained that I >>was American and said, as we shields always did, "Bush bad, war >>bad, Iraq good". He looked at me with an expression of incredulity. >> >>As he realised I was serious, he slowed down and started to speak >>in broken English about the evils of Saddam's regime. Until then I >>had only heard the President spoken of with respect, but now this >>guy was telling me how all of Iraq's oil money went into Saddam's >>pocket and that if you opposed him politically he would kill your >>whole family. >> >>It scared the hell out of me. First I was thinking that maybe it >>was the secret police trying to trick me but later I got the >>impression that he wanted me to help him escape. I felt so bad. I >>told him: "Listen, I am just a schmuck from the United States, I am >>not with the UN, I'm not with the CIA - I just can't help you." >> >>Of course I had read reports that Iraqis hated Saddam Hussein, but >>this was the real thing. Someone had explained it to me face to >>face. I told a few journalists who I knew. They said that this sort >>of thing often happened - spontaneous, emotional, and secretive >>outbursts imploring visitors to free them from Saddam's tyrannical >>Iraq. >> >>I became increasingly concerned about the way the Iraqi regime was >>restricting the movement of the shields, so a few days later I left >>Baghdad for Jordan by taxi with five others. Once over the border >>we felt comfortable enough to ask our driver what he felt about the >>regime and the threat of an aerial bombardment. >> >>"Don't you listen to Powell on Voice of America radio?" he said. >>"Of course the Americans don't want to bomb civilians. They want to >>bomb government and Saddam's palaces. We want America to bomb >>Saddam." >> >>We just sat, listening, our mouths open wide. Jake, one of the >>others, just kept saying, "Oh my God" as the driver described the >>horrors of the regime. Jake was so shocked at how naive he had >>been. We all were. It hadn't occurred to anyone that the Iraqis >>might actually be pro-war. >> >>The driver's most emphatic statement was: "All Iraqi people want >>this war." He seemed convinced that civilian casualties would be >>small; he had such enormous faith in the American war machine to >>follow through on its promises. Certainly more faith than any of us >>had. >> >>Perhaps the most crushing thing we learned was that most ordinary >>Iraqis thought Saddam Hussein had paid us to come to protest in >>Iraq. Although we explained that this was categorically not the >>case, I don't think he believed us. Later he asked me: "Really, how >>much did Saddam pay you to come?" >> >>It hit me on visceral and emotional levels: this was a real >>portrayal of Iraq life. After the first conversation, I completely >>rethought my view of the Iraqi situation. My understanding changed >>on intellectual, emotional, psychological levels. I remembered the >>experience of seeing Saddam's egomaniacal portraits everywhere for >>the past two weeks and tried to place myself in the shoes of >>someone who had been subjected to seeing them every day for the >>last 20 or so years. >> >>Last Thursday night I went to photograph the anti-war rally in >>Parliament Square. Thousands of people were shouting "No war" but >>without thinking about the implications for Iraqis. Some of them >>were drinking, dancing to Samba music and sparring with the police. >>It was as if the protesters were talking about a different country >>where the ruling government is perfectly acceptable. It really >>upset me. >> >>Anyone with half a brain must see that Saddam has to be taken out. >>It is extraordinarily ironic that the anti-war protesters are >>marching to defend a government which stops its people exercising >>that freedom. >> >>Information appearing on telegraph.co.uk is the copyright of >>Telegraph Group Limited and must not be reproduced in any medium >>without licence. For the full copyright statement see Copyright -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Mon Jun 2 14:11:35 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 13:11:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] warrior poets -- and an interview with Pinsky Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030602130142.01a93800@mail.ilstu.edu> Thanks Henry and Duncan I just wanted to see with what kind of rhetoric people like you were "processing" the war. Typical liberal "interventionism" (bombing them for their own good) -- right out of John Stuart Mill's defense of empire. Just checkin. Now here's an interview with Robert Pinsky -- taken from mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com: <> From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Jun 2 14:37:33 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:37:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Toot! -- xStream #11 online Message-ID: Suggestions: To open this, click on the URL at the bottom of Jukka-Pekka's message. An interesting way to view "The Wordless Life" is to press your down-arrow key and let the text flow up the screen (and use the up-arrow key, if you'd like to make the return trip). Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ===== xStream -- Issue #11 Toot! -- xStream #11 online xStream Issue #11 is online, now in two parts: 1. Regular: Works from 7 poets (Michael Farrell, Vernon Frazer, Jason Earls, Jonathan Hayes, Amy Trussell, Halvard Johnson and Andrew Topel) 2. Autoissue: Poems generated by computer from Issue #11 texts, the whole autoissue is generated in "real-time", every refresh. Submissions are welcome, please send to xstream at xpressed.org. Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Editor xStream WWW: http://xstream.xpressed.org email: xstream at xpressed.org From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Mon Jun 2 14:41:32 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 11:41:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] warrior poets -- and an interview with Pinsky References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030602130142.01a93800@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <3EDB9A5C.F2D5336@earthlink.net> Gar! Thanks for the belly laughs. - Jim Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > Thanks Henry and Duncan I just wanted to see with what kind of rhetoric > people like you were "processing" the war. Typical liberal > "interventionism" (bombing them for their own good) -- right out of John > Stuart Mill's defense of empire. Just checkin. > > Now here's an interview with Robert Pinsky -- taken from > mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com: > > < [The following interview originally appeared in the Spring 2003 issue of > Maraudian, a new journal at the University of Delaware, and is reprinted by > permission of the editor.] From Henry_Gould at brown.edu Mon Jun 2 15:16:25 2003 From: Henry_Gould at brown.edu (Henry Gould) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:16:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re: warrior poets Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030602145338.00ae5e90@postoffice.brown.edu> Hey, don't mention it, Gabriel. Anything I can do to help you "process" what I say. Especially the part about "bomb them for their own good" - I don't remember saying that, but thank you for "processing" it out of me. I'm very pleased to learn that what I didn't say comes from such an important figure in our intellectual history as Mr. J.S. Mill. Shows how deeply & widely you've been reading, & that's no lie! Ingenious how you "process" things - smooths it over so you can digest, right? the way a pigeon in a pigeonhole processes its pigeon-food? or turns it into some kind of edible paste for your pigeon-warrior pals? OK, I'm heading back up to an extremely high hawk altitude - so long, my fine feathered flim-flam. Henry From marcus at designerglass.com Mon Jun 2 15:23:56 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:23:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] warrior poets -- and an interview with Pinsky In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030602130142.01a93800@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <3EDB6C0C.1597.1B60B17@localhost> On 2 Jun 2003 at 13:11, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > Thanks Henry and Duncan I just wanted to see with what kind of rhetoric > people like you were "processing" the war. Typical liberal > "interventionism" (bombing them for their own good) -- right out of John > Stuart Mill's defense of empire. Just checkin. More mere rhetorical trickery. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From barry.spacks at verizon.net Mon Jun 2 15:28:25 2003 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:28:25 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] so-called Pinsky-Interview In-Reply-To: <200306021812.h52IC9ST005402@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030602121940.00b21b68@incoming.verizon.net> At 02:12 PM 6/2/2003 -0400, Gabriel Gudding wrote >Now here's an interview with Robert Pinsky -- taken from >mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com: > > <[The following interview originally appeared in the Spring 2003 issue of >Maraudian, a new journal at the University of Delaware, and is reprinted by >permission of the editor.] ***** Believe it or not, there exist those who will not "get" this joke, even if they've actually read a way into the sophomoranics here, especially with such a dignifying preamble. Is it too much to ask that the word "mock" be placed before the word "interview" in offering up such japes and ambles? Or maybe a smiley-face? Barry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Mon Jun 2 15:26:15 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:26:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] so-called Pinsky-Interview In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030602121940.00b21b68@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: on 6/2/03 2:28 PM, Barry Spacks at barry.spacks at verizon.net wrote: > At 02:12 PM 6/2/2003 -0400, Gabriel Gudding wrote >> Now here's an interview with Robert Pinsky -- taken from >> mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com: >> >> <> [The following interview originally appeared in the Spring 2003 issue of >> Maraudian, a new journal at the University of Delaware, and is reprinted by > permission of the editor.] > > ***** > Believe it or not, there exist those who will not "get" this joke, > even if they've actually read a way into the sophomoranics here, > especially with such a dignifying preamble. Is it too much to > ask that the word "mock" be placed before the word "interview" > in offering up such japes and ambles? Or maybe a smiley-face? > > Barry The so-called interview is also misleading because it was posted under the title ?warrior poets,? when in fact Pinsky opposed the Iraq war like a well-heeled establishment poet. Paul Lake -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Mon Jun 2 15:40:05 2003 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:40:05 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] so-called poetry list Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A008@mail.ripon.edu> Hey, has anyone read any poems lately? Did I mention it's Thomas Hardy's birthday? Also Raymond Carver's. . . . Happiness So early it's still almost dark out. I'm near the window with coffee, and the usual early morning stuff that passes for thought. When I see the boy and his friend walking up the road to deliver the newspaper. They wear caps and sweaters, and one boy has a bag over his shoulder. They are so happy they aren't saying anything, these boys. I think if they could, they would take each other's arm. It's early in the morning, and they are doing this thing together. They come on, slowly. The sky is taking on light, though the moon still hangs pale over the water. Such beauty that for a minute death and ambition, even love, doesn't enter into this. Happiness. It comes on unexpectedly. And goes beyond, really, any early morning talk about it. --Raymond Carver from ALL OF US ============================================ David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html My Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ============================================ > The so-called interview is also misleading because it was posted under the > title "warrior poets," when in fact Pinsky opposed the Iraq war like a > well-heeled establishment poet. > > Paul Lake > From MillB at aol.com Mon Jun 2 15:43:30 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:43:30 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] so-called birthday Message-ID: <141.12cb9f28.2c0d02e2@aol.com> Greetings, It's not Raymond Carver's birthday, per say; it's the day he quit drinking. Mill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elemenope at icubed.com Mon Jun 2 03:52:50 2003 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:52:50 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snake Pit - - (more about war) In-Reply-To: <200306021812.h52ICHST005411@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200306021812.h52ICHST005411@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: At a certain point in contemporary history, that point being the WTC Attack by Al Qaeda on 9/11/02, the flow of events regarding how the United States would henceforward deal with the Middle East altered. The attempt to solve the now indisputable reality of a massive religio-ideological war against all that stands outside Wahhabi Islamo-Fascism fell to the responsibility of the new American Republican administration. It was decided that this pit of serpents, Al Qaeda, Baath, Hamas, Taliban etc., would be confronted on its own turf. America would not play defense and negotiate through the UN on behalf of its own security. Readers (Contributors to _100 Days_ published by Barque Press, for example.) of this post on this list may conclude that this was moronic, illegal by some international law, or whatever, but the fact is that we who put George Bush into the Presidency have been advocating, had been advocating, and will continue to advocate for the dramatic, assertive, unrelenting destruction of America's self declared enemies emanating out of the cited realm of poisonous serpents. And we, Lone Star Rangers, really don't care about making overly nice decisions about whether Saddam and his Nazified psychopaths was totally allied or partially allied with the Wahhabi/Islamo Fascistic psychopaths. By taking out Saddam and putting into motion the change in Iraq, most of the world, except for elite circles in America and Europe, has breathed a collective sigh of relief. The world is settling down. New leaders in Iraq will emerge and they will not threaten Europe or America. Iran will change. The Bequaa Valley will be returned to peaceful purposes in the time ahead. There will be no Armageddon due to the action of the American President and the British Prime Minister, who both deserve the Nobel Prize, but due to the twisted ideological psychodynamics of those who award this prize, will not receive it, probably.. Those who oppose this new flow of events in contemporary history are swimming against the current. Their former chance to manage the world by placating the Terrorists under the adminstrations they controlled is lost. For the foreseeable future, the Democrat Party will be out of power in America - - and the majority of the citizenry, especially outside the academic elites, will see to it that this change grows and expands. Someone was called by dire necessity to go into that Middle East snake pit to cut off the serpents' heads. Britain and America and Poland and Spain did the job. Those in agreement with France who opposed this counterattack had been too pusilanimous for the onerous task. Markets are up. The economic slowdown is over. Don't bet against the United States. ------------------------------------- Richard Dillon ELEMENOPE Productions > >Message: 1 >From: "Robin Hamilton" >To: >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] more about war >Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:57:05 +0100 >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Henry: > >I'm in sympathy (though not necessarily complete agreement) with much of >what you say. But this: > >> ... the presence of a gruesomely oppressive, anti-American, pro-Al >> Qaeda dictatorship at the center of the Middle East, > >HAS there been any link proven between Saddam's Iraq and Al-Qaeda, even >after the Bush policies practically drove them together? I know this is an >old and worn observation, but Al-Qaeda wasn't exactly in favour of secular >Islamic states, whether democratic or dictatorial, and Saddam didn't exactly >love Muslim fundamentalism. Even when he used it to his purposes, it seems >to me it was always carefully controlled, and *inside* Iraq. > >Robin > -- From GrahamD at ripon.edu Mon Jun 2 15:54:03 2003 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:54:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: so-called birthday Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A009@mail.ripon.edu> > It's not Raymond Carver's birthday, per say; it's the day he quit > drinking. > > Mill > > > Right you are. Sorry about that. And (seeing as this is a poetry list) here's a poem on the subject. Gravy No other word will do. For that's what it was. Gravy. Gravy, these past ten years. Alive, sober, working, loving and being loved by a good woman. Eleven years ago he was told he had six months to live at the rate he was going. And he was going nowhere but down. So he changed his ways somehow. He quit drinking! And the rest? After that it was all gravy, every minute of it, up to and including when he was told about, well, some things that were breaking down and building up inside his head. "Don't weep for me," he said to his friends. "I'm a lucky man. I've had ten years longer than I or anyone expected. Pure Gravy. And don't forget it." --Raymond Carver ============================================ David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html My Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ============================================ From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 2 15:59:49 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:59:49 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] so-called Pinsky-Interview References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030602121940.00b21b68@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <01bc01c32941$87063590$5b15e589@TECH> >Believe it or not, there exist those who will not "get" this joke, >even if they've actually read a way into the sophomoranics here, >especially with such a dignifying preamble. Is it too much to >ask that the word "mock" be placed before the word "interview" >in offering up such japes and ambles? Or maybe a smiley-face? And here I was thinking how funny it would be to see some of that get cited in a student paper or something. I guess I'm evil that way. I need to get my "mockumentary" poet biographies back online, now that I think of it. c (war opposing, non-well-heeled non-establishment poet) From FanwoodJEL at aol.com Mon Jun 2 16:21:43 2003 From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 16:21:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] so-called poetry list Message-ID: <1c8.a958eac.2c0d0bd7@aol.com> In a message dated 6/2/2003 3:41:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GrahamD at ripon.edu writes: > Hey, has anyone read any poems lately? Yes, as a matter of fact: The Magnolia's Shadow The shadow of the Japanese magnolia is thinning now that its royal-blue buds have fallen. At the top a lone cicada chirrs off and on. The time of voices joined in unison. Clizia, of the boundless power devouring and replenishing his faithful, is over. Spending oneself was easier, dying at the first rush of wings, the first encounter with the enemy, was a game. Now the harder way begins: but not you consumed by the sun and rooted, yet gentle fieldfare soaring high above the cold banks of your river--not you does the shuddering cold bow low, fragile fugitive for whom zenith nadir Cancer Capricorn stayed indistinct so that the war might be in you and in him who loves the Stigmata of your Spouse upon you . . . The rest fall back and fold. The file that etches finely will be still, the empty husk of him who sang will soon be powdered glass underfoot, the shadow's pale-- it's fall, it's winter, it's the great beyond that draws you and I hurl myself in it, mullet beached under the new moon. Addio. Eugenio Montale Collected Poems 1020-1954 FSG, Galassi, Ed. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 2 16:22:58 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:22:58 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] so-called poetry list References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A008@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <01dc01c32944$c3116d40$5b15e589@TECH> On Monday, June 02, 2003 11:40 AM, Graham, David spake thusly: > Hey, has anyone read any poems lately? Did I mention it's Thomas > Hardy's birthday? Also Raymond Carver's. . . . Not actually Ray's birthday... that was last Sunday. Today is the anniversary of his sobriety. That was probably more important than his birthday anyway. I've written a lot about Carver and own practically everything he ever wrote (and everything that has been written about him). For many, many reasons, not just the quality of his work, he is a major touchstone of mine. All of his writing wasn't dark, but given his passing they are the ones that come back to me first. Here are a couple: "Photograph of my Father in his 22nd Year" October. Here in this dank, unfamiliar kitchen I study my father's embarrassed young man's face. Sheepish grin, he holds in one hand a string of spiny yellow perch, in the other a bottle of Carlsbad Beer. In jeans and denim shirt, he leans against the front fender of a 1934 Ford. He would like to pose bluff and hearty for his posterity, Wear his old hat cocked over his ear. All his life my father wanted to be bold. But the eyes give him away, and the hands that limply offer the string of dead perch and the bottle of beer. Father, I love you, yet how can I say thank you, I who can't hold my liquor either, and don't even know the places to fish? *** "Your Dog Dies" it gets run over by a van. you find it at the side of the road and bury it. you feel bad about it. you feel bad personally, but you feel bad for your daughter because it was her pet, and she loved it so. she used to croon to it and let it sleep in her bed. you write a poem about it. you call it a poem for your daughter, about the dog getting run over by a van and how you looked after it, took it out into the woods and buried it deep, deep, and that poem turns out so good you're almost glad the little dog was run over, or else you'd never have written that good poem. then you sit down to write a poem about writing a poem about the death of that dog, but while you're writing you hear a woman scream your name, your first name, both syllables, and your heart stops. after a minute, you continue writing. she screams again. you wonder how long this can go on. *** "What the Doctor Said" He said it doesn't look good he said it looks bad in fact real bad he said I counted thirty-two of them on one lung before I quit counting them I said I'm glad I wouldn't want to know about any more being there than that he said are you a religious man do you kneel down in forest groves and let yourself ask for help when you come to a waterfall mist blowing against your face and arms do you stop and ask for understanding at those moments I said not yet but I intend to start today he said I'm real sorry he said I wish I had some other kind of news to give you I said Amen and he said something else I didn't catch and not knowing what else to do and not wanting him to have to repeat it and me to have to fully digest it I just looked at him for a minute and he looked back it was then I jumped up and shook hands with this man who'd just given me something no one else on earth had ever given me I may even have thanked him habit being so strong. From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 2 16:25:59 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 12:25:59 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] so-called poetry list References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A008@mail.ripon.edu> <01dc01c32944$c3116d40$5b15e589@TECH> Message-ID: <01e801c32945$2f47e930$5b15e589@TECH> This Ed Ochester poem seems appropriate today: *** "October 27, 1989" And what did you want? To call myself beloved, to feel myself beloved on the earth. --Ray Carver He was in a hotel in Baltimore in a suburb near Johns Hopkins. He would give a talk there, and they would pay him for it. It was night, and he was alone; sirens were racing up and down the streets. The room was very large. Most of what he had wished as a boy was to write poems, to have some power with the word, to be paid for talking. Don't smile, please. He wanted to be put in a beautiful room like this. Bonnie would pick him up in an hour. He saw out the picture window a few men in trenchcoats walking toward the parking lot, and beyond that headlights and taillights on a freeway a mile or so away. He'd been reading Carver's last book of poems, reading "Gravy" and the other valedictories. He remembered Carver a few years before his death, kidding about his prosperity, kneeling before his Mercedes and waving a fistful of dollars, because he was so amazed, he supposed, to have them, that good man, whose last poems, written in the knowledge of imminent death, said love the world, don't grieve overmuch, listen to people. The beautiful room was a good place to read; he'd finished the book (for the second time) at the pine desk, where the indirect white light hurt his eyes. He didn't think he'd ever be as famous as Carver, but who could tell? He was sorry the man was dead; there was nothing he could do about that, but he was sorry for it. He got up to look out the picture window. He could see the red spintops of some cops' cars. Other than that nothing special: in the entrance courtyard a lone cabbie smoked a cigarette; spotlights shone up through the yellow foliage of a clump of maples. A few slow crickets. He had everything he really wanted, he had learned that friends, like love, couldn't save him. From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Mon Jun 2 16:31:04 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 15:31:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan's latest Message-ID: http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/21/jun03/logan.htm --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Jun 2 17:12:03 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:12:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan's latest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, a number of good swipes and raps there, but wouldn't *The New Criterion* do better to call itself either *The Old Criterion* or, maybe even better, *The New Centurion*? Hal This vehicle has been checked for sleeping children. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan's latest { { { http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/21/jun03/logan.htm { { --- { [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] { { _______________________________________________ { New-Poetry mailing list { New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu { http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 2 17:13:00 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:13:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snake Pit - - (more about war) References: <200306021812.h52ICHST005411@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <004801c3294b$bfcee840$77e6fea9@j1c1k6> It just struck me that what the West accomplished against Saddam through war took just about as many days as what the West accomplished against Stalin through pacifism took in years . . . Now let's get back to poetry, if we can. Seems to me the War in Iraq is already ancient history. --Bob G. From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jun 2 17:19:49 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:19:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan's latest Message-ID: <6b.124a6966.2c0d1975@cs.com> In a message dated 6/2/2003 4:13:52 PM Central Daylight Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: > > Yes, a number of good swipes and raps there, > but wouldn't *The New Criterion* do better to > call itself either *The Old Criterion* or, maybe > even better, *The New Centurion*? > > Hal This vehicle has been checked > for sleeping children. > If they'd put in a William Logan centerfold, they could call it The Nude Criterion. Actually, I'm thinking about renaming my group The Nude Formalists. At one point I thought The Few Normalists would fit, but we need the publicity. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Mon Jun 2 17:48:15 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:48:15 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan's latest References: <6b.124a6966.2c0d1975@cs.com> Message-ID: <02d601c32950$ad884fa0$5b15e589@TECH> I have to wonder, if Henri Cole does the same thing over and over as Olds seems to, will Logan rake him over the coals a decade from now? I think Olds, like Ai, needs to do something different, but he seems to be praising in Cole some of what I think makes Olds' early poems great. c From mandolin at mac.com Mon Jun 2 18:03:52 2003 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 18:03:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan's latest In-Reply-To: <6b.124a6966.2c0d1975@cs.com> Message-ID: <189EACBC-9546-11D7-953D-000393C29586@mac.com> On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 05:19 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > > If they'd put in a William Logan centerfold, they could call it The > Nude Criterion. ?Actually, I'm thinking about renaming my group The > Nude Formalists. ?At one point I thought The Few Normalists would fit, > but we need the publicity. Need a mandolin player? From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Jun 2 20:48:19 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:48:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan's latest Message-ID: <12d.2ae24a87.2c0d4a53@cs.com> In a message dated 6/2/2003 5:05:58 PM Central Daylight Time, mandolin at mac.com writes: > > On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 05:19 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > > > > > > If they'd put in a William Logan centerfold, they could call it The > > Nude Criterion. Actually, I'm thinking about renaming my group The > > Nude Formalists. At one point I thought The Few Normalists would fit, > > but we need the publicity. > > Need a mandolin player? > > > What does she look like? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dicka at optonline.net Mon Jun 2 21:53:31 2003 From: dicka at optonline.net (Richard Attanasio) Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 21:53:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: heeled poets In-Reply-To: <200306022021.h52KL5ST008424@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <2D8AEE4E-9566-11D7-99DE-000393DE187A@optonline.net> On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 04:21 PM, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > > The so-called interview is also misleading because it was posted under > the > title =B3warrior poets,=B2 when in fact Pinsky opposed the Iraq war > like a > well-heeled establishment poet. > > Paul Lake > Hey, let's hear it for the real warrior, down-at-the-heels, outsider poets who fought the war (from here)! Richard From mandolin at mac.com Tue Jun 3 07:24:59 2003 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:24:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan's latest Message-ID: <837642.1054639499709.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com> On Monday, June 02, 2003, at 08:48PM, wrote: > In a message dated 6/2/2003 5:05:58 PM Central Daylight Time, mandolin at mac.com writes: >>On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 05:19 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> If they'd put in a William Logan centerfold, they could call it The >>> Nude Criterion. Actually, I'm thinking about renaming my group The >>> Nude Formalists. At one point I thought The Few Normalists would fit, >>> but we need the publicity. >>Need a mandolin player? >What does she look like? A bearded lady. From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Tue Jun 3 12:06:59 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:06:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "disingenuous" interview Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030603105928.01d498c8@mail.ilstu.edu> I want to apiligize to anyone for posting that disingenuine interview . As a true poet, you are right l it is my duty to label and name things clearly and not to connfuse anyone -- I mean ANYbody at all time-- about my ninnies, intentions, messages . Because some people might could take that item seriousely! What is real and waht is not real -- that is the issue. And Im sorry for posting that wrong and disingenuous interview of rhetoric from that stupid website mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com. What a fucking shit bitch hole that website its. Bunch of fucking sedition Gabriel "Go Fuck YOUR Sam Head" Gudding From luap at mallasch.com Tue Jun 3 12:38:22 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:38:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] "disingenuous" interview In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030603105928.01d498c8@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: This is from a while back when Pinsky spoke at Ball State Univ. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ ------------------------- Post Poet Laureate i met him on the green, nestled between frogbaby and the archi building what he knew as univercity little play on words, but there were all these tents and i suppose he must get approached by ranting strangers all the time - each ablaze w/their own ideas... he was inspiring, tho. a snappy dresser - germanic past - his voice and actions - read a poem about a shirt and how far it goes to arrive on his body in a construct of a city of academia while reading a poem about the shirt ... being in tents feeling for the fleetest of moments not unlike a refugee camp in a post apocylyptic world where learning is forbidden and poetry is once again outlawed... oh how far we've come. oh how far left to go? oh the poem, the words the wisdom of how to be a poet with a million or more dollars vision with so many others behind it in search of the elusive american poem not by the poets but read by everyday americans. oh what is poetry, now, after the now from before? a button on my shirt undone, asking quick questions 'bout the 'net the future of poetry... an ex-dean of communications in the crowd - a writer. a few profs and a class or two. the sun - other tents - other voices... what is poetry? what is inspiration? some brought paintings out of univercity, i brought this poem, this moment after meeting the poet who was most honored in america last year and ongoing... -kpaul mallasch On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > I want to apiligize to anyone for posting that disingenuine interview . As > a true poet, you are right l it is my duty to label and name things clearly > and not to connfuse anyone -- I mean ANYbody at all time-- about my > ninnies, intentions, messages . Because some people might could take that > item seriousely! > > What is real and waht is not real -- that is the issue. And Im sorry for > posting that wrong and disingenuous interview of rhetoric from that stupid > website mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com. What a fucking shit bitch hole that > website its. Bunch of fucking sedition > > Gabriel "Go Fuck YOUR Sam Head" Gudding > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Jun 3 19:38:36 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 19:38:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hasta la vista Message-ID: We're off on our travels tomorrow, so I'll be unsubscribing for a while. Y'all be good. Hal "Cross / a border every day, and leave your luggage in the station." --Wendy Battin Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Wed Jun 4 13:52:36 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:52:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] a list about poetry -- a war about oil Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030604124655.019e8ca0@mail.ilstu.edu> Here is a poem, followed by an article reporting that Wolfowitz admitted today in Singapore that the war was about OIL. A book and a jug and a dame, And a nice cozy nook for the same; "And I don't care a damn," Said Omar Khayyam, "What you say, it's a great little game." --Ann-Ann E. Mouse http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,970331,00.html Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil George Wright Wednesday June 4, 2003 Oil was the main reason for military action against Iraq, a leading White House hawk has claimed, confirming the worst fears of those opposed to the US-led war. The US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz - who has already undermined Tony Blair's position over weapons of mass destruction (WMD) by describing them as a "bureaucratic" excuse for war - has now gone further by claiming the real motive was that Iraq is "swimming" in oil. The latest comments were made by Mr Wolfowitz in an address to delegates at an Asian security summit in Singapore at the weekend, and reported today by German newspapers Der Tagesspiegel and Die Welt. _____________________________________________________ "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 gmguddi at ilstu.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ From barry.spacks at verizon.net Wed Jun 4 15:11:06 2003 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:11:06 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Matters of Tone and Bully-Pulpitry In-Reply-To: <200306041601.h54G1AST015887@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030604115821.00b5fd58@incoming.verizon.net> >Anybody know how to calm a Sneering Gudding? Jeeze! (but such darling mock-spelling... shoulda warned us rube-readers about that, too, Gabe. As they say in the House, Apollo-gize! Apollo-gize! Apollo-gize!) Barry >From: Gabriel Gudding >Subject: [New-Poetry] "disingenuous" interview >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >I want to apiligize to anyone for posting that disingenuine interview . As >a true poet, you are right l it is my duty to label and name things clearly >and not to connfuse anyone -- I mean ANYbody at all time-- about my >ninnies, intentions, messages . Because some people might could take that >item seriousely! > >What is real and waht is not real -- that is the issue. And Im sorry for >posting that wrong and disingenuous interview of rhetoric from that stupid >website mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com. What a fucking shit bitch hole that >website its. Bunch of fucking sedition > >Gabriel "Go Fuck YOUR Sam Head" Gudding > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Wed Jun 4 16:30:53 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:30:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan as hep cat Message-ID: As it happens, I was reading around in Kevin Young's new book, *Jelly Roll*, at the same time that William Logan's review of him (et alia) was called to our attention. As usual, I have some problems with Logan's rhetoric. It's a given that he won't like the books under review, of course, especially if they are written by free versers, anyone tainted by multiculturalism, or in fact most anyone who is still alive. And I think he makes some good points about Young's weaknesses. He even emits a grudging squeak or two in the direction of Young's strengths. But consider the following paragraph, which opens his review of Young: "Kevin Young is a hep cat. The idiom he?s cooked up in Jelly Roll, his third book, is partly inspired by, partly pilfered from, that most American of moods and musics, the blues. (When Dickens toured America in the 1840s, he noticed how dour our countrymen were?they were suffering an early spell of the blues.) Robert Johnson?s lines, quoted in the epigraph, still cast a spell: ?Oh babe/ Our love won?t be the same// You break my heart/ When you call Mister So & So?s name.? Compared to most lyric poetry, they retain the raw wounds of betrayal. To match your talents against lyrics so pithy, bawdy, colloquial, so deft and democratic, is a dangerous game, one that few modern poets, apart from Bishop and Auden, have attempted with success." I don't know whether to cringe at the condescension here, or laugh at Logan's literary history. *Bishop* and *Auden* are his examples of poets who have matched their talents successfully against the blues? That's the best he can do in comparison? How about comparing what Young is doing against, say, Langston Hughes, Etheridge Knight, or Sonia Sanchez? I mean, there *is* a rather lengthy tradition here that Logan is avoiding. Or, if he simply can't bear to go down that multicultural road, how about the jazz & blues poems of Hayden Carruth? Elizabeth Bishop is a marvelous poet, but I honestly can't think of many poets with less connection to the blues. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From FanwoodJEL at aol.com Wed Jun 4 16:32:01 2003 From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:32:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan as hep cat Message-ID: In a message dated 6/4/2003 4:30:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > Elizabeth Bishop is a marvelous > poet, but I honestly can't think of many poets with less connection to the > blues. > Auden Jeffrey Levine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Wed Jun 4 18:16:41 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:16:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Matters of Tone and Bully-Pulpitry In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030604115821.00b5fd58@incoming.verizon.net> References: <200306041601.h54G1AST015887@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030604171340.01919c90@mail.ilstu.edu> At 12:11 PM 6/4/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>Anybody know how to calm a Sneering Gudding? Gudding wasn't sneering. I don't know what he was doing but he wasn't sneering. Not his style -- Twust me -- I oughta know. The Interview thrown before the house of "rube" (yr word) readers was the masterwork of Drew Gardner, by the bye. >Jeeze! (but such darling mock-spelling... >shoulda warned us rube-readers about that, too, >Gabe. As they say in the House, Apollo-gize! >Apollo-gize! Apollo-gize!) > >Barry > >>From: Gabriel Gudding >>Subject: [New-Poetry] "disingenuous" interview >>Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>I want to apiligize to anyone for posting that disingenuine interview . As >>a true poet, you are right l it is my duty to label and name things clearly >>and not to connfuse anyone -- I mean ANYbody at all time-- about my >>ninnies, intentions, messages . Because some people might could take that >>item seriousely! >> >>What is real and waht is not real -- that is the issue. And Im sorry for >>posting that wrong and disingenuous interview of rhetoric from that stupid >>website mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com. What a fucking shit bitch hole that >>website its. Bunch of fucking sedition >> >>Gabriel "Go Fuck YOUR Sam Head" Gudding From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Jun 5 01:55:05 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 01:55:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan as hep cat Message-ID: <120.22037da2.2c103539@cs.com> To match your talents against lyrics so pithy, bawdy, colloquial, so deft and democratic, is a dangerous game, one that few modern poets, apart from Bishop and Auden, have attempted with success." I don't know whether to cringe at the condescension here, or laugh at Logan's literary history. *Bishop* and *Auden* are his examples of poets who have matched their talents successfully against the blues? That's the best he can do in comparison? Oh I caught a big fish but then I let him go. Yeah I caught a big fish but them I let him go. He looked real big but his weight was just so-so. Or: Lay your sleepin' head against my human breast. Yeah lay your sleepin' head against my human breast. Oh the bombs are fallin' and I gotta go head west. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Jun 5 11:59:33 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:59:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan as hep cat Message-ID: <137.2086ceed.2c10c2e5@aol.com> In a message dated 6/4/03 4:33:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FanwoodJEL at aol.com writes: > Elizabeth Bishop is a marvelous > > poet, but I honestly can't think of many poets with less connection to the > > blues. > > > > Auden > There was that line that wen't something like... 'Bout da sufferin' dem Ol' Massers was never wrong. From elemenope at icubed.com Thu Jun 5 02:25:23 2003 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:25:23 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Professor Gudding Refuted Once Again by Reality and Ethical Reporters. Message-ID: >G. [Gullee or Grifter?] G once again leaps fecklessly before he >looks. _The Guardian_, Britland's leftist news authority, source of >the legerdemain, has issued the following ethical retraction of >Professor G's re-batted cork: >Corrections and clarifications >Thursday June 5, 2003 >The Guardian > >A report which was posted on our website on June 4 under the heading >"Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil" misconstrued remarks made by the >US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, making it appear that >he had said that oil was the main reason for going to war in Iraq. >He did not say that. He said, according to the Department of Defence >website, "The ... difference between North Korea and Iraq is that we >had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country >floats on a sea of oil. In the case of North Korea, the country is >teetering on the edge of economic collapse and that I believe is a >major point of leverage whereas the military picture with North >Korea is very different from that with Iraq." The sense was clearly >that the US had no economic options by means of which to achieve its >objectives, not that the economic value of the oil motivated the >war. The report appeared only on the website and has now been >removed. > >The steam engine enthusiast referred to in Country Diary, page 20, >G2, June 2, was the Rev Wilbert Awdry, (not Audry) the inventor of >Thomas the Tank Engine. > >Our Country Diary, page 16, G2, last Friday, May 30, was used ahead >of its scheduled publication in place of a diary that had not turned >up. Unfortunately a reference to its publication coinciding with the >50th anniversary of Coronation Day was left unchanged to the dismay >and perplexity of the diary's author, A Harry Griffin, and his >readers. Apologies to all. > >It is the policy of the Guardian to correct significant errors as >soon as possible. Please quote the date and page number. Readers may >contact the office of the readers' editor by telephoning 0845 451 >9589 between 11am and 5pm Monday to Friday (all calls are charged at >local rate). Mail to Readers' editor, The Guardian, 119 Farringdon >Road, London EC1R 3ER. Fax 020-7239 9997. Email: >reader at guardian.co.uk >Guardian Unlimited ? Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003 C'mon, Kid, give us more raw meat from your fog! Interesting how _The Times_ [Raines quits in disgrace after the Jayson Blair scandal.] falls apart on the day such deceitful attacks like this Professor's dud on Wolfowitz is exposed for the spin of lies that it is. Henceforward, the names of Jaybird Blare, Hitlarity Clintoon, and Professor Gulling will be joined in the Ripley Museum of Waxed Reporters. [Sigh, didn't need no corked bat for this one.] Come again, Paladin Who Shovels the Stables [RD] > >Message: 1 >Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:52:36 -0500 >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >From: Gabriel Gudding >Subject: [New-Poetry] a list about poetry -- a war about oil >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Here is a poem, followed by an article reporting that Wolfowitz admitted >today in Singapore that the war was about OIL. > > >A book and a jug and a dame, >And a nice cozy nook for the same; > "And I don't care a damn," > Said Omar Khayyam, >"What you say, it's a great little game." > > --Ann-Ann E. Mouse > > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,970331,00.html >Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil > >George Wright >Wednesday June 4, 2003 > >Oil was the main reason for military action against Iraq, a leading White >House hawk has claimed, confirming the worst fears of those opposed to the >US-led war. >The US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz - who has already >undermined Tony Blair's position over weapons of mass destruction (WMD) by >describing them as a "bureaucratic" excuse for war - has now gone further >by claiming the real motive was that Iraq is "swimming" in oil. >The latest comments were made by Mr Wolfowitz in an address to delegates at >an Asian security summit in Singapore at the weekend, and reported today by >German newspapers Der Tagesspiegel and Die Welt. > > > > >_____________________________________________________ > > "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things > they misname empire; and where they make > a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus > > >Gabriel Gudding >Assistant Professor of English >Illinois State University >Normal, IL 61790 >office 309.438.5284 >gmguddi at ilstu.edu > >http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html >http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 2 >Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 12:11:06 -0700 >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >From: Barry Spacks >Subject: [New-Poetry] Matters of Tone and Bully-Pulpitry >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >--=====================_21145245==_.ALT >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >>Anybody know how to calm a Sneering Gudding? >Jeeze! (but such darling mock-spelling... >shoulda warned us rube-readers about that, too, >Gabe. As they say in the House, Apollo-gize! >Apollo-gize! Apollo-gize!) > >Barry > >>From: Gabriel Gudding >>Subject: [New-Poetry] "disingenuous" interview >>Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> >>I want to apiligize to anyone for posting that disingenuine interview . As >>a true poet, you are right l it is my duty to label and name things clearly >>and not to connfuse anyone -- I mean ANYbody at all time-- about my >>ninnies, intentions, messages . Because some people might could take that >>item seriousely! >> >>What is real and waht is not real -- that is the issue. And Im sorry for >>posting that wrong and disingenuous interview of rhetoric from that stupid >>website mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com. What a fucking shit bitch hole that >>website its. Bunch of fucking sedition >> >>Gabriel "Go Fuck YOUR Sam Head" Gudding >> > >--=====================_21145245==_.ALT >Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" > > >
Anybody know how to >calm a Sneering Gudding?
Jeeze! (but such darling >mock-spelling...
>shoulda warned us rube-readers about that, too,
>Gabe. As they say in the House, Apollo-gize!
>Apollo-gize! Apollo-gize!)

>Barry

>
From: Gabriel Gudding ><gmguddi at ilstu.edu>
>Subject: [New-Poetry] "disingenuous" interview
>Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu

>I want to apiligize to anyone for posting that disingenuine interview . >As
>a true poet, you are right l it is my duty to label and name things >clearly
>and not to connfuse anyone -- I mean ANYbody at all time-- about my >
>ninnies, intentions, messages . Because some people might could take that >
>item seriousely!

>What is real and waht is not real -- that is the issue. And Im sorry for >
>posting that wrong and disingenuous interview of rhetoric from that >stupid
>website mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com. What a fucking shit bitch hole >that
>website its. Bunch of fucking sedition

>Gabriel "Go Fuck YOUR Sam Head" Gudding

>
> >--=====================_21145245==_.ALT-- > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:30:53 -0500 >From: David Graham >To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" >Subject: [New-Poetry] Logan as hep cat >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >As it happens, I was reading around in Kevin Young's new book, *Jelly Roll*, >at the same time that William Logan's review of him (et alia) was called to >our attention. > >As usual, I have some problems with Logan's rhetoric. It's a given that he >won't like the books under review, of course, especially if they are written >by free versers, anyone tainted by multiculturalism, or in fact most anyone >who is still alive. And I think he makes some good points about Young's >weaknesses. He even emits a grudging squeak or two in the direction of >Young's strengths. > >But consider the following paragraph, which opens his review of Young: > >"Kevin Young is a hep cat. The idiom he's cooked up in Jelly Roll, his third >book, is partly inspired by, partly pilfered from, that most American of >moods and musics, the blues. (When Dickens toured America in the 1840s, he >noticed how dour our countrymen were-they were suffering an early spell of >the blues.) Robert Johnson's lines, quoted in the epigraph, still cast a >spell: "Oh babe/ Our love won't be the same// You break my heart/ When you >call Mister So & So's name." Compared to most lyric poetry, they retain the >raw wounds of betrayal. To match your talents against lyrics so pithy, >bawdy, colloquial, so deft and democratic, is a dangerous game, one that few >modern poets, apart from Bishop and Auden, have attempted with success." > >I don't know whether to cringe at the condescension here, or laugh at >Logan's literary history. *Bishop* and *Auden* are his examples of poets >who have matched their talents successfully against the blues? That's the >best he can do in comparison? > >How about comparing what Young is doing against, say, Langston Hughes, >Etheridge Knight, or Sonia Sanchez? I mean, there *is* a rather lengthy >tradition here that Logan is avoiding. > >Or, if he simply can't bear to go down that multicultural road, how about >the jazz & blues poems of Hayden Carruth? Elizabeth Bishop is a marvelous >poet, but I honestly can't think of many poets with less connection to the >blues. > >==================================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu >Home Page: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >Poetry Library: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >==================================================== > > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 4 >From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com >Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:32:01 EDT >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan as hep cat >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >--part1_de.399f016d.2c0fb141_boundary >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >In a message dated 6/4/2003 4:30:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > >> Elizabeth Bishop is a marvelous >> poet, but I honestly can't think of many poets with less connection to the >> blues. >> > >Auden > > >Jeffrey Levine > >--part1_de.399f016d.2c0fb141_boundary >Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 6/4/2003 4:30:24 PM Eastern Dayligh= >t Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes:
>
>
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Elizabeth Bishop is a marvelous= >
>poet, but I honestly can't think of many poets with less connection to theR> >blues. 
>

>
>Auden
>
>
>Jeffrey Levine > >--part1_de.399f016d.2c0fb141_boundary-- > >--__--__-- > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:16:41 -0500 >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >From: Gabriel Gudding >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Matters of Tone and Bully-Pulpitry >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >At 12:11 PM 6/4/2003 -0700, you wrote: >>>Anybody know how to calm a Sneering Gudding? > >Gudding wasn't sneering. I don't know what he was doing but he wasn't >sneering. Not his style -- Twust me -- I oughta know. > >The Interview thrown before the house of "rube" (yr word) readers was the >masterwork of Drew Gardner, by the bye. > > > >>Jeeze! (but such darling mock-spelling... >>shoulda warned us rube-readers about that, too, >>Gabe. As they say in the House, Apollo-gize! >>Apollo-gize! Apollo-gize!) >> >>Barry >> >>>From: Gabriel Gudding >>>Subject: [New-Poetry] "disingenuous" interview >>>Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> >>>I want to apiligize to anyone for posting that disingenuine interview . As >>>a true poet, you are right l it is my duty to label and name things clearly >>>and not to connfuse anyone -- I mean ANYbody at all time-- about my >>>ninnies, intentions, messages . Because some people might could take that > >>item seriousely! >>> >>>What is real and waht is not real -- that is the issue. And Im sorry for >>>posting that wrong and disingenuous interview of rhetoric from that stupid >>>website mainstreampoetry.blogspot.com. What a fucking shit bitch hole that >>>website its. Bunch of fucking sedition >>> >>>Gabriel "Go Fuck YOUR Sam Head" Gudding > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 6 >From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 01:55:05 EDT >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan as hep cat >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >--part1_120.22037da2.2c103539_boundary >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >To match your talents against lyrics so pithy, >bawdy, colloquial, so deft and democratic, is a dangerous game, one that few >modern poets, apart from Bishop and Auden, have attempted with success." > >I don't know whether to cringe at the condescension here, or laugh at >Logan's literary history. *Bishop* and *Auden* are his examples of poets >who have matched their talents successfully against the blues? That's the >best he can do in comparison? > >Oh I caught a big fish but then I let him go. >Yeah I caught a big fish but them I let him go. >He looked real big but his weight was just so-so. > >Or: > >Lay your sleepin' head against my human breast. >Yeah lay your sleepin' head against my human breast. >Oh the bombs are fallin' and I gotta go head west. > >--part1_120.22037da2.2c103539_boundary >Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >To match your talents aga= >inst lyrics so pithy, >
bawdy, colloquial, so deft and democratic, is a dangerous game, one that= > few >
modern poets, apart from Bishop and Auden, have attempted with success." >
>
I don't know whether to cringe at the condescension here, or laugh at >
Logan's literary history.  *Bishop* and *Auden* are his examples of= > poets >
who have matched their talents successfully against the blues?  Tha= >t's the >
best he can do in comparison? >
>
Oh I caught a big fish but then I let him go. >
Yeah I caught a big fish but them I let him go. >
He looked real big but his weight was just so-so. >
>
Or: >
>
Lay your sleepin' head against my human breast. >
Yeah lay your sleepin' head against my human breast. >
Oh the bombs are fallin' and I gotta go head west. > >--part1_120.22037da2.2c103539_boundary-- > >--__--__-- > >Message: 7 >From: JforJames at aol.com >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:59:33 EDT >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Logan as hep cat >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >In a message dated 6/4/03 4:33:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >FanwoodJEL at aol.com writes: > >> Elizabeth Bishop is a marvelous >> > poet, but I honestly can't think of many poets with less connection to >the >> > blues. >> > >> >> Auden >> >There was that line that wen't something like... >'Bout da sufferin' >dem Ol' Massers >was never wrong. > > >--__--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >End of New-Poetry Digest -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Fri Jun 6 12:48:57 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:48:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030606114747.01af8ea8@mail.ilstu.edu> >Kenneth Goldsmith >DAY >(836 pages) > > >"I am spending my 39th year practicing uncreativity. On Friday, September >1, 2000, I >began retyping the day's New York Times, word for word, letter for letter, >from the upper >left hand corner to the lower right hand corner, page by page." > >With those words, Kenneth Goldsmith embarked upon a project which he >termed "uncreative >writing," that is: uncreativity as a constraint-based-process; >uncreativity as a creative >practice. As Goldsmith claims, "It's one of the hardest constraints a >writer can muster, >particularly on a project of this scale; with every keystroke comes the >temptation to >fudge, cut-and-paste, and skew the mundane language. But to do so would be >to foil the >exercise." > >Long an advocate of extreme writing processes ? recording every move his >body has made in >a day (Fidget), recording every word he spoke over the course of a week >(Soliloquy), >recording every phrase he heard ending in the sound of "r" for four years >(No. 111) ? >Goldsmith now turns his attention to quotidian documents. > >By typing page upon page, making no distinction between article, editorial and >advertisement, disregarding all typographic and graphical treatments, >Goldsmith levels >the daily newspaper, reducing it to mere text. From the stock quotes to >the Macy's ads, >everything is assigned equal weight. > >What emerges is a monument to the ephemeral, comprised of yesterday's >news: a fleeting >moment concretized, captured, then reframed into the discourse of literature. > >With this simple act of transcription, Goldsmith critiques the culturally >cherished >values of creativity and originality in writing. Following the traditions >of Duchamp's >Fountain (1917) and Andy Warhol's work in the visual arts, or the >ubiquitous practices of >sampling and plunderphonics in contemporary music, Goldsmith asks, "Nearly >one hundred >years after Duchamp, why hasn't appropriation become a valid, sustained or >even tested >literary practice?" > >But there's also something of an alchemist in Goldsmith, thus evoking more >Pierre Menard >than Jeff Koons. The text is full of formal choices and chockfull of >hundreds of tiny >decisions, making Day a unique and playful work unto itself. > >"Even John Cage, whose mission it was to accept all sound as music, >ultimately failed; >his filter was on too high," says Goldsmith. "However, if Cage claimed >that any sound can >be music, then by extension we can conclude that, properly framed, any >language can be >poetry." > >"When I reach 40, I hope to have cleansed myself of all creativity." > >------ From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Jun 6 13:47:32 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:47:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030606114747.01af8ea8@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <00a001c32c53$b54854f0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> > > > >"When I reach 40, I hope to have cleansed myself of all creativity." > > He may have succeeded already. Tad From marcus at designerglass.com Fri Jun 6 14:07:03 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:07:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030606114747.01af8ea8@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <3EE0A007.31075.9F8FD5@localhost> > >"Even John Cage, whose mission it was to accept all sound as music, > >ultimately failed; > >his filter was on too high," says Goldsmith. "However, if Cage claimed > >that any sound can > >be music, then by extension we can conclude that, properly framed, any > >language can be > >poetry." > >"When I reach 40, I hope to have cleansed myself of all creativity." Lucky for him, he was there already. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Fri Jun 6 14:07:47 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:07:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating In-Reply-To: <00a001c32c53$b54854f0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030606114747.01af8ea8@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030606130712.01babee8@mail.ilstu.edu> > >He may have succeeded already. I hope that others succeed at this too. Very certain others. From Henry_Gould at brown.edu Fri Jun 6 14:46:26 2003 From: Henry_Gould at brown.edu (Henry Gould) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 14:46:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This Is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030606142750.00afeb60@postoffice.brown.edu> But why doesn't Goldsmith delay the project until after announcing it, so that it gets a small mention in the paper ?? Then he can start the project with that particular day's issue. When he gets to the article about himself, he could. . . a) develop a glitch in the system like a skip in an LP so that he continually re-writes the article about himself until felled by carpal tunnel syndrome or SARS b) after finishing typing the article about himself suddenly go into reverse and type the article backwards, then forwards, then backwards, etc. while his assistant removes all his clothes and assembles the News Media for further documentation c) when he finishes typing the article about himself he could sue himself for identity theft and sue the newspaper for assisting identity theft and libel d) type the entire article substituting "Gabriel Gudding" for "Kenneth Goldsmith" and substituting "Iraq" for "creativity", then contact the FBI immediately and sue them and Gabriel Gudding for fomenting news briefs e) suddenly stop the entire project & just read the day's paper while drinking a cup of "Joe" but call "Joe" "Kenneth" and then sue Starbuck's for falsely appropriating his creative substitution of "Kenneth" for "Joe" around the world, while offering another cup of "Joe" to "Gabriel" but calling "Joe" "Kenneth" so as to confuse "Gabriel" into thinking he was offering himself as a profane obscene postmodern caffeinated Last Supper rather than a simple cup of "Kenneth" aka "Joe" f) begin typing the article about himself VERY, EXTREMELY SLOWLY. This would allow the News Media to assemble its full global reportage resources and interpretive (ie. falsificative) capabilities. Once this process is set in motion, a WORLD NEWS EVENT would be underway which would gradually absorb & ingest the ENTIRE KNOWN UNIVERSE like a Horrible Cosmic BLOB From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 6 14:48:22 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:48:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030606114747.01af8ea8@mail.ilstu.edu> <00a001c32c53$b54854f0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <00ac01c32c5c$357cf1a0$a759fea9@j1c1k6> > > >"When I reach 40, I hope to have cleansed myself of all creativity." > > > > > He may have succeeded already. > > Tad I think what he's doing is mildly interesting, though devoting the amount of time to it that he does seems foolish. He is, of course, being creative--in his choice of projects, and in his presentation of them. --Bob G. From JforJames at aol.com Fri Jun 6 15:18:46 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:18:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <12d.2b2e212b.2c124316@aol.com> One could be kind and call this another kind of conceptual art...or anti-art, but, in the end, it's not really much of a concept, is it? Finnegan From MillB at aol.com Fri Jun 6 16:51:16 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:51:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> This reminds me of a man whose only claim to fame was that he counted forward (using an adding machine). One plus one, click, plus one, click, plus one. He was written up in the local paper. . . Once he arrived at a billion, he turned around: minus one, click, minus one, minus one. . . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Fri Jun 6 17:21:38 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <20030606212138.C978411F00@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: MillB at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:51:16 EDT Size: 2987 URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Jun 6 18:10:51 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:10:51 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> Message-ID: <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> Well, the calculator trick really is almost amazing in some twisted way. At the rate of 2 per second going 24 hours per day it would take over 15 years to reach a billion that way. I'm no mathematician, but that's some kind of weird achievement... c From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 6 18:36:28 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:36:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> Message-ID: <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> Sometimes, department meetings are like that. - Jim p.s. - Sometimes, department meetings are like that. From MillB at aol.com Fri Jun 6 18:40:56 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:40:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <183.1c0c602d.2c127278@aol.com> For the record, the "counting guy" was a savant of sorts and this was his life's work. I forget his name; it was David something. Maybe it was only a million? I'm not sure. It's been years since I read the article. . .it stuck me then as the copying of the NY Times project does now: totally fascinating. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Jun 6 18:54:01 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:54:01 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> On Friday, June 06, 2003 2:36 PM, James Cervantes spake thusly: > Sometimes, department meetings are like that. I'm pretty sure that even in my short life I have doodled at least 1000 miles of line-drawings during university meetings alone. c (no savant, but occasionally an idiot) From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 6 19:35:28 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 16:35:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> Message-ID: <3EE12540.F80E616B@earthlink.net> Chris Lott wrote: > > On Friday, June 06, 2003 2:36 PM, James Cervantes > spake thusly: > > > Sometimes, department meetings are like that. > > I'm pretty sure that even in my short life I have doodled at least 1000 > miles of line-drawings during university meetings alone. Someone should do a coffee-table book of "artwork" done during meetings. Or maybe not. - Jim From MillB at aol.com Fri Jun 6 19:51:01 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:51:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <144.130a34fb.2c1282e5@aol.com> Jim: It could be called Celebrity Doodles: Trumps circles and squares, Clinton's cones and cigars, Martha Stewart's pastel stars. . .Sinatra's martini glasses, Wynona Ryder's scissors and gothic castles. . . Mill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Jun 6 21:28:34 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:28:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> Message-ID: <008c01c32c94$1d0562a0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> I had given my poetry class the assignment to write down everything they heard that was said in iambic pentameter. That afternoon, I went to a department meeting. MINUTES OF THE LAST MEETING It wouldn't interfere with what we do; I couldn't really poll the entire group. Very, very briefly, here's the plan Elect the chairs of two committees first (Able to run for these positions first) Who'll want to lead the faculty towards greatness. Within the AAC or SAC, At least two people -- one is not enough - The faculty at large will vote for chairs, The AAC, I find, now having done it. The AAC, last Monday, voted no -Selected by the faculty at large- And they pick someone who they think can lead. Maybe the better thing would be to keep. We have to somehow pull it all together. Did everyone get a chance to sign the sheet? There are seven searches underway From dweinstock at adelphia.net Fri Jun 6 22:00:59 2003 From: dweinstock at adelphia.net (David Weinstock) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 22:00:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> <008c01c32c94$1d0562a0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <001701c32c98$a4297f60$a7ae3018@davidbfhh1hlvc> > MINUTES OF THE LAST MEETING I love those lines. If anybody doubted that English is basically iambic, and that there's something "natural" about the pentameter line, these would convince. I had a college roommate who got a minor part in a Shakespeare play, and I used to sit in the theater during rehearsals. After a few weeks of that, I was not only noticing the blank verse lines in ordinary speech, I was talking that way myself. David W. From mbyrne at risd.edu Fri Jun 6 22:34:19 2003 From: mbyrne at risd.edu (Mairead Byrne) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:34:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: Yeah well guys I work at Rhode Island School of Design where there's a very high calibre of doodle, I've noticed--and a lot of department, division and all school meetings! Mairead Mair?ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> jvcervantes at earthlink.net 06/06/03 19:47 PM >>> Chris Lott wrote: > > On Friday, June 06, 2003 2:36 PM, James Cervantes > spake thusly: > > > Sometimes, department meetings are like that. > > I'm pretty sure that even in my short life I have doodled at least 1000 > miles of line-drawings during university meetings alone. Someone should do a coffee-table book of "artwork" done during meetings. Or maybe not. - Jim _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Fri Jun 6 23:42:32 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <20030607034232.3210FABCB@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Sat Jun 7 00:02:43 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <20030607040243.6140311EF8@sitemail.everyone.net> Mairead, I suppose that you know that the Rhode Island School of Design was the first/longest lived school of its ilk? Bob Poetry Catamaran "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" Robert R. Cobb AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. http://rrcobb.tripod.com --- "Mairead Byrne" wrote: >Yeah well guys I work at Rhode Island School of Design where there's a >very high calibre of doodle, I've noticed--and a lot of department, >division and all school meetings! >Mairead > >Mair?ad Byrne >Assistant Professor of English >Rhode Island School of Design >Providence, RI 02903 >www.wildhoneypress.com >www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>>> jvcervantes at earthlink.net 06/06/03 19:47 PM >>> > > >Chris Lott wrote: >> >> On Friday, June 06, 2003 2:36 PM, James Cervantes >> spake thusly: >> >> > Sometimes, department meetings are like that. >> >> I'm pretty sure that even in my short life I have doodled at least >1000 >> miles of line-drawings during university meetings alone. > >Someone should do a coffee-table book of "artwork" done during meetings. > Or maybe not. > >- Jim >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Sat Jun 7 08:24:18 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 05:24:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> <008c01c32c94$1d0562a0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <3EE1D971.9D3930A2@earthlink.net> Yes. Even the acronyms, of which there must be many. - Jim TheOldMole wrote: > > I had given my poetry class the assignment to write down everything they > heard that was said in iambic pentameter. That afternoon, I went to a > department meeting. > > MINUTES OF THE LAST MEETING > > It wouldn't interfere with what we do; > I couldn't really poll the entire group. > Very, very briefly, here's the plan > Elect the chairs of two committees first > (Able to run for these positions first) > Who'll want to lead the faculty towards greatness. > > Within the AAC or SAC, > At least two people -- one is not enough - > The faculty at large will vote for chairs, > The AAC, I find, now having done it. > > The AAC, last Monday, voted no > -Selected by the faculty at large- > And they pick someone who they think can lead. > Maybe the better thing would be to keep. > We have to somehow pull it all together. > > Did everyone get a chance to sign the sheet? > There are seven searches underway > >From a variety of different fields -- > I know I'm getting questions all the time. > It's not as academic a position, > The college writing program and the core. > > There is the dean search, which is underway > A lot of applications were dismissed > This selection didn't represent -- > I don't know anything about the search -- > Is uppermost in everybody's mind -- > And in the end, of course, it's Artine's choice. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Lott" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating > > > On Friday, June 06, 2003 2:36 PM, James Cervantes > > spake thusly: > > > > > Sometimes, department meetings are like that. > > > > I'm pretty sure that even in my short life I have doodled at least 1000 > > miles of line-drawings during university meetings alone. > > > > c (no savant, but occasionally an idiot) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From hruggier at localnet.com Sat Jun 7 10:24:33 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 10:24:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> <008c01c32c94$1d0562a0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <3EE1F5A0.DF5AFACB@localnet.com> Ya know, this is so good, so close to the real, my eyes unfocused just reading it. And about Mr. Goldsmith - I admire his seatedness, but I'd prefer to work with the cows that have words painted on their sides. TheOldMole wrote: > I had given my poetry class the assignment to write down everything they > heard that was said in iambic pentameter. That afternoon, I went to a > department meeting. > > MINUTES OF THE LAST MEETING > > It wouldn't interfere with what we do; > I couldn't really poll the entire group. > Very, very briefly, here's the plan > Elect the chairs of two committees first > (Able to run for these positions first) > Who'll want to lead the faculty towards greatness. > > Within the AAC or SAC, > At least two people -- one is not enough - > The faculty at large will vote for chairs, > The AAC, I find, now having done it. > > The AAC, last Monday, voted no > -Selected by the faculty at large- > And they pick someone who they think can lead. > Maybe the better thing would be to keep. > We have to somehow pull it all together. > > Did everyone get a chance to sign the sheet? > There are seven searches underway > >From a variety of different fields -- > I know I'm getting questions all the time. > It's not as academic a position, > The college writing program and the core. > > There is the dean search, which is underway > A lot of applications were dismissed > This selection didn't represent -- > I don't know anything about the search -- > Is uppermost in everybody's mind -- > And in the end, of course, it's Artine's choice. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Lott" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:54 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating > > > On Friday, June 06, 2003 2:36 PM, James Cervantes > > spake thusly: > > > > > Sometimes, department meetings are like that. > > > > I'm pretty sure that even in my short life I have doodled at least 1000 > > miles of line-drawings during university meetings alone. > > > > c (no savant, but occasionally an idiot) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sat Jun 7 12:39:09 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 11:39:09 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Unusual Interview -- at Skanky Possum's Pouch Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030607113859.01a8de80@mail.ilstu.edu> http://www.skankypossum.com/pouch/ "What Appears to Be a Yacht in the Distance: An Interview with Kent Johnson" By way of celebrating the release of perhaps one of the most bizarre books I've seen in the last several years, Skanky Possum, publisher of the work, has just posted the above-mentioned interview to its website. In the interview, conducted under bright high windows in the spacious study of his windswept Illinois home, Kent Johnson (co-author -- with respected Greek poet Alexandra Papaditsas -- of the book in question, THE MISERIES OF POETRY: TRADUCTIONS FROM THE GREEK) is asked questions that cut to the core concerns many in the poetry world have about the Elusive Poet, prolific editor, and controversial executor "Knet" Johnson and his relation not only to the texts that surround him but to the beautiful and brilliant Greek recluse Alexandra Papaditsas and her disturbing malady. THE MISERIES OF POETRY: TRADUCTIONS FROM THE GREEK, by Kent Johnson and Alexandra Papaditsas, can be purchased from Skanky Possum at http://www.skankypossum.com/order.htm or by sending a check ($6 plus $1.50 s/h) to Skanky Possum, 2925 Higgins Street, Austin, Texas 78722. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mandolin at mac.com Sat Jun 7 15:01:41 2003 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:01:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Unusual Interview -- at Skanky Possum's Pouch Message-ID: <2058581.1055012501529.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com> Gabe, there's nothing wrong with promoting your own work, so why act like you've got nothing to these things? From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sun Jun 8 11:06:28 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 10:06:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Frost & Pentagon Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030608100312.01a32cc8@mail.ilstu.edu> http://tinyurl.com/dr3o For once, then Something Others taught me with having knelt at well-curbs Always wrong to the light, so never seeing Deeper down in the well than where the water Gives me back in a shining surface picture Me myself in the summer heaven godlike Looking out of a wreath of fern and cloud puffs. Once, when trying with chin against a well-curb, I discerned, as I thought, beyond the picture, Through the picture, a something white, uncertain, Something more of the depths--and then I lost it. Water came to rebuke the too clear water. One drop fell from a fern, and lo, a ripple Shook whatever it was lay there at bottom, Blurred it, blotted it out. What was that whiteness? Truth? A pebble of quartz? For once, then, something. Robert Frost (1874-1963) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Sun Jun 8 11:54:34 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 08:54:34 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Nation As Null Set" References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030608100312.01a32cc8@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <3EE35C39.90FB4330@earthlink.net> Nation As Null Set The west is their frontier and the east a frontier for the others. As they chew up the continent, they pass each other, go right through each other, and there's this tiny dinging sound of a ring bouncing on tile, or a washer hitting cement, or a bullet casing bouncing off rock, ding ding in the two wakes. The situation makes it possible to explicitly define the results of blind warring on certain invisible people who would otherwise not be definable. Sure, they grow flowers and raise pets but when they attend a party alone there are two empty rooms instead of one. Each is the foundation for the other via secret couplings in a place where neither lives and where great sums of almost identical money are exchanged. It would be against the common good to hold it to the light. Only now do we see the wisdom of the flowering of story, the histories of others. - Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cervantes: http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org RelativeLinks: http://www.poetserv.com/relativelinks/home.html From JforJames at aol.com Sun Jun 8 12:17:01 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:17:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Phylum Press Message-ID: <1e3.a98bc90.2c14bb7d@aol.com> http://www.phylumpress.com/ From sondheim at panix.com Sun Jun 8 19:48:43 2003 From: sondheim at panix.com (Alan Sondheim) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Review of Google Hacks: 100 Industrial-Strength Tips and Tools Message-ID: Review of Google Hacks: 100 Industrial-Strength Tips and Tools Tara Calishain and Rael Dornfest, O'Reilly, 2003, $24.95, 330 pp. I've been using Google Hacks for creative work for the past few weeks, and have found the book of tremendous value. There are of course hegemonic issues surrounding Google; it's by far the most popular search engine on the Web. But it's also the only search engine that has released its API, defined as "'Application Programming Interface,' a doorway for programmatic access to a particular resource or application, in this case, the Google index." In other words, the API provides a remarkably supple method for embedding Google queries in a program (mostly Perl here), which makes this search engine eminently useful for creative and/or database work. The book includes a large number of programs taking advantage of the API; they're also available at the O'Reilly site for downloading. Examples are given in Java, PHP, Perl, Python, etc. One difficulty which may be more than minor - many programs use a SOAP::Lite Perl module. This is easy to download for ActivePerl for Windows; on one of my linux laptops (running RedHat 7+), it wouldn't install at all, but downloaded Perl 5.8.0 which didn't help. On another laptop with a later RedHat, it went in fairly easily. Once you have the module installed, most of the programs run without any difficulty. They allow you to do such things as summarize results by domain, set up automated repeat searches, "Meander Your Google Neighborhood" and so forth. They also allow any number of search results - this is changed by increasing the looping which is set for 3 (thirty results). I did a search for "internet" - returning the domain statistics - using the first 1000 entries; it only took a minute or two. As an artist, I tend to see Google as a universal sememe or memory house that attempts to gather all human knowledge. Some of my recent work operates "upon" this sememe, locating categories, paths, and convolutions. The programs in Google Hacks (and their modifications) give the user tremendous control over these. I will now be using the same to look at the Google groups archiving. (The book not only covers Google Groups, but the Directory, Images, News, Catalogs, Labs, and Froogle.) The last section of the book is written from the "Webmaster Side" of things and is quite useful for indexing/configuring your own webpages. And the book as a whole is useful for anyone using search engines in general - its range extends far beyond "How do I look up X?" - into issues that, at least for me, bear on the organization and epistemology of knowledge itself. I wanted to write this review for a number of reasons. Tara Calishain is in my Being On Line book, and I've subscribed for a long time to her ResearchBuzz newsletter. Google itself has allowed me to explore certain aspects of my textual/literary practice, and has been invaluable for my interests in both ancient languages (Sumerian, Assyrian for example) and ecology (behavior of the yellow-headed blackbird for example). I've always admired the surface simplicity of the site; on the other hand, I'm not blind to its political economy and the vast areas of the Net that aren't indexed (as well as those areas indexed "against their will"). But above all, this book oddly reads as a commentary for the searching many of us do in many ways - and in my case, the artistic and cultural rewards gained by using it are enormous. I'd suggest for everyone to give it a try (as well as learning a bit of Perl and programming - although neither is necessary to use it) - at least check it out through the O'Reilly site. A final note - a plug for O'Reilly in general. If you haven't explored their publications, you're missing what are probably the most intelligent computer-oriented books around. And oddly enough, they don't tend to go out of date! - Alan Sondheim === From JackTar at aol.com Mon Jun 9 02:25:02 2003 From: JackTar at aol.com (JackTar at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 02:25:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Robert Frost & Pentagon Message-ID: In a message dated 6/8/2003 11:10:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gmguddi at ilstu.edu writes: > For once, then Something > ashes, the dust and i dust from the past ashes of the unknown borne by the wind from dusk unto dawn ground up life lessons from happy to sad floating in time, wisdom unclad covering our vision fogging up the view our perception of others, others perception of you arising from all quarters to float everywhere cast into mindsets which harden without care i look to the wind blowing in the night sky at life's allusions and delusions clinging to our mind's eye dust from the past ashes of the unknown borne by the wind looking for a new home duncan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Jun 9 05:43:11 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:43:11 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> <008c01c32c94$1d0562a0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> <3EE1F5A0.DF5AFACB@localnet.com> Message-ID: <006701c32e6b$8aad56e0$6d607550@anny> I am asking all these enormously brilliant minds, if mine -similar to the original work that started all the following comments- can be considered a work of art. Years ago I started out with colors and poetry and mixed the two, oh I have grown enormously since then... but still the past is the past and no one can change it. So as I was saying, I first got some A4 format papers and painted and drew on them, opened the entire collection of Montale's poetry and recopied one by one the poems of the Master (since that's what he is). I still have the entire pack here which anyhow saw the lights of fame once at a local museum, not satisfied, I got some architect paper and recopied Pound's Pisan Cantos, line by line, to make two long strips of whitish scrolls (since he often mentions them), I also guard this preciousness... and to continue (stubborn I know) I bought some small canvases, this time messed them around in acrylic color and above recopied more than half the Faust in German by Goethe, unfinished work, over 200 canvases, all dusty in my tiny cellar under my racing bike. I am asking you, here I am with the conclusion, is this to be considered a "work of art"? thanks for your considerations and precious time, anny From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 9 08:05:50 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:05:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> <008c01c32c94$1d0562a0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> <3EE1F5A0.DF5AFACB@localnet.com> <006701c32e6b$8aad56e0$6d607550@anny> Message-ID: <005601c32e7f$78f2acc0$93b9fea9@j1c1k6> The works you describe are works of art. Whether they are any good or not, who knows. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anny Ballardini" To: Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 5:43 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating > I am asking all these enormously brilliant minds, if mine -similar to the > original work that started all the following comments- can be considered a > work of art. > > Years ago I started out with colors and poetry and mixed the two, oh I have > grown enormously since then... but still the past is the past and no one can > change it. > > So as I was saying, I first got some A4 format papers and painted and drew > on them, opened the entire collection of Montale's poetry and recopied one > by one the poems of the Master (since that's what he is). I still have the > entire pack here which anyhow saw the lights of fame once at a local museum, > > not satisfied, I got some architect paper and recopied Pound's Pisan Cantos, > line by line, to make two long strips of whitish scrolls (since he often > mentions them), I also guard this preciousness... > > and to continue (stubborn I know) I bought some small canvases, this time > messed them around in acrylic color and above recopied more than half the > Faust in German by Goethe, unfinished work, over 200 canvases, all dusty in > my tiny cellar under my racing bike. > > I am asking you, here I am with the conclusion, is this to be considered a > "work of art"? > > thanks for your considerations and precious time, anny > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ron.silliman at verizon.net Mon Jun 9 08:22:17 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:22:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <000001c32e81$c8d92a00$50f3f343@Dell> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Blogging with scholars A note on Salam Pax Google & Big Brother Other ways to gather poetry news Francis Ponge's Notebook in the Pine Woods Bruno Schulz - magic realism in Middle Europe Jack Collom The first post-"Poetry Wars" poet Tracking poetry news: Google News vs. Poetry Daily Jack Collom's early poetry Right there with Ashbery, Koch, Berrigan & Mac Low John Wieners early, John Wieners late - INSTANTER! Francis Ponge & the found form of the carnation Francis Ponge: a text that exists solely as memory David Pavelich's Outlining: articulating the process of the poem Robin Blaser & Meredith Quartermain: Wanderful parallelograms Rob Stanton reading Anne Carson & doubt vs. error Kit Robinson's 9:45 & langpo's relation to the New York School Certainty is not the opposite of doubt, but rather certainty is the opposite of complexity - (the far rights' war on complexity) http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Over 50,000 hits since September 2002 From JforJames at aol.com Mon Jun 9 08:29:05 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:29:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] private gardens vs. public planners (Spender quote) Message-ID: <1da.b51daa0.2c15d791@aol.com> "These two poles of outward and inward transformation are the Romantic extremes: Shelley's claim that the poets are unacknowledged legislators, Keats's cry, "oh for a life of pure sensation'. Keats saw that Shelley's wish to vivify the language of noble reason, so that it would incite men to make a just world, could lead only to the surrender of hidden poetic gardens to public planners; Keats wrote poems like arbours, in which readers were invited to spend a lifetime eating imaginary nectarines from imaginary dishes." ---Stephen Spender, "Inside the Cage: Reflections on conditioned and unconditioned imagination" (in _The Making Of A Poem_) From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Jun 9 08:27:17 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:27:17 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> <008c01c32c94$1d0562a0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> <3EE1F5A0.DF5AFACB@localnet.com> <006701c32e6b$8aad56e0$6d607550@anny> <005601c32e7f$78f2acc0$93b9fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <013a01c32e82$7782e8c0$6d607550@anny> Thank you Bob, the tone I used before was quite desecrating, playful at its best; there is anyhow a thought behind it all, a deeply existentialist one, which was leading at the time. My main attitude in life has partly changed, it is now colored with new tinges of hope, a greater openness to society in general and somehow a different kind of maturity. Instead of negating a priori, I am stuffing in, eating down as a cannibal (as Bonami said about artists), and giving back. Whatever and whenever I can. A twist in fate. Maybe the stars, maybe a direct consequence of having met different people. Also the net has had its mark. On this specific topic, I am with Pierre Levy, the futurist of our times. Again, anny > The works you describe are works of art. Whether they are any good or not, > who knows. > > --Bob G. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anny Ballardini" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 5:43 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating > > > > I am asking all these enormously brilliant minds, if mine -similar to the > > original work that started all the following comments- can be considered a > > work of art. > > > > Years ago I started out with colors and poetry and mixed the two, oh I > have > > grown enormously since then... but still the past is the past and no one > can > > change it. > > > > So as I was saying, I first got some A4 format papers and painted and drew > > on them, opened the entire collection of Montale's poetry and recopied one > > by one the poems of the Master (since that's what he is). I still have the > > entire pack here which anyhow saw the lights of fame once at a local > museum, > > > > not satisfied, I got some architect paper and recopied Pound's Pisan > Cantos, > > line by line, to make two long strips of whitish scrolls (since he often > > mentions them), I also guard this preciousness... > > > > and to continue (stubborn I know) I bought some small canvases, this time > > messed them around in acrylic color and above recopied more than half the > > Faust in German by Goethe, unfinished work, over 200 canvases, all dusty > in > > my tiny cellar under my racing bike. > > > > I am asking you, here I am with the conclusion, is this to be considered a > > "work of art"? > > > > thanks for your considerations and precious time, anny > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From marcus at designerglass.com Mon Jun 9 09:03:38 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 09:03:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Unusual Interview -- at Skanky Possum's Pouch In-Reply-To: <2058581.1055012501529.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com> Message-ID: <3EE44D6A.25803.3978D4@localhost> On 7 Jun 2003 at 15:01, Michael Snider wrote: > Gabe, there's nothing wrong with promoting your own work, so why > act like you've got nothing to these things? < It's a policy of trying to create a large enough group of people who write good reviews of one another as if from sheer but distant admiration to get noticed by the legitmizing publishers. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From JforJames at aol.com Mon Jun 9 09:03:38 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:03:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: In a message dated 6/9/03 5:45:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: > am asking you, here I am with the conclusion, is this to be considered a > "work of art"? A good number of artists are appropriating/incorporating literary texts (& other textual materials) into more visually dynamic presentations (mixed media). It's art, for sure. The performance artist Carolee Schneeman (sp?) has a piece called "Scroll", in which she removes (or unravels) a scroll of text from her vagina. Of course, poets are (& have been fro some time) exploiting works of visual art. This occurs in many forms and methods, from a pure response to the work to an extension of the work beyond what is rendered. The Goldsmith piece is "anti-art" that became art as soon as decided to publicize the conceptual nature of his undertaking. It's inevitably a boring art...it's only merit being the way it calls attention to the difficulty of purifying oneself of an impulse toward making ("uncreativity," as he referred to it) art. Finnegan From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Mon Jun 9 09:12:07 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 06:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <20030609131208.0ABC03A95@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From MillB at aol.com Mon Jun 9 09:41:40 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:41:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <12c.2bf5337a.2c15e894@aol.com> Anny: Here's Merwin's answer. Berryman I will tell you what he told me in the years just after the war as we then called the second world war don't lose your arrogance yet he said you can do that when you're older lose it too soon and you may merely replace it with vanity just one time he suggested changing the usual order of the same words in a line of verse why point out a thing twice he suggested I pray to the Muse get down on my knees and pray right there in the corner and he said he meant it literally it was in the days before the beard and the drink but he was deep in tides of his own through which he sailed chin sideways and head tilted like a tacking sloop he was far older than the dates allowed for much older than I was he was in his thirties he snapped down his nose with an accent I think he had affected in England as for publishing he advised me to paper my wall with rejection slips his lips and the bones of his long fingers trembled with the vehemence of his views about poetry he said the great presence that permitted everything and transmuted it in poetry was passion passion was genius and he praised movement and invention I had hardly begun to read I asked how can you ever be sure that what you write is really any good at all and he said you can't you can't you can never be sure you die without knowing whether anything you wrote was any good if you have to be sure don't write "Berryman" from Flower & Hand, copyright ? 1997 by W. S. Merwin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 9 09:59:42 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:59:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> <008c01c32c94$1d0562a0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> <3EE1F5A0.DF5AFACB@localnet.com> <006701c32e6b$8aad56e0$6d607550@anny> <005601c32e7f$78f2acc0$93b9fea9@j1c1k6> <013a01c32e82$7782e8c0$6d607550@anny> Message-ID: <007601c32e8f$614f64e0$93b9fea9@j1c1k6> > Thank you Bob, the tone I used before was quite desecrating, playful at its > best; there is anyhow a thought behind it all, a deeply existentialist one, > which was leading at the time. > > My main attitude in life has partly changed, it is now colored with new > tinges of hope, a greater openness to society in general and somehow a > different kind of maturity. Instead of negating a priori, I am stuffing in, > eating down as a cannibal (as Bonami said about artists), and giving back. > Whatever and whenever I can. A twist in fate. Maybe the stars, maybe a > direct consequence of having met different people. Also the net has had its > mark. On this specific topic, I am with Pierre Levy, the futurist of our > times. > > Again, anny Hey, for your information, *I* am THE futurist of our times. (Just kidding. Good luck.) --Bob G. From dager3 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 9 10:34:39 2003 From: dager3 at yahoo.com (Deborah Ager) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 07:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Call for Submissions -- and Subscribers! Message-ID: <20030609143439.19393.qmail@web41210.mail.yahoo.com> Hey everyone, The first issue of 32 Poems Magazine is out! Read poems from the issue at www.32poems.com. Each professionally designed, saddle-stitched issue contains only 32 poems so that readers may give intimate, unhurried attention to each. Poets include: Melanie Almeder Cal Bedient B.H. Fairchild Gabe Gudding Kimberly Johnson William Logan Randall Mann V. Penelope Pelizzon A.E. Stallings Christian Wiman C. Dale Young. We strongly believe a poem?s publication should not begin its disappearance. We promote the work of contributors by placing 32 Poems Magazine with editors, nominating writers for recognition and prizes, and commending work to widely read online poetry sources. Please visit www.32poems.com to order sample copies, subscriptions or to submit your work. Warmly, Deborah Publisher __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Jun 9 11:12:39 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:12:39 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <12c.2bf5337a.2c15e894@aol.com> Message-ID: <002a01c32e99$915d7140$6d607550@anny> Well thank you! Definitely totally fascinating in its romantic fervor and I mean it, anny ----- Original Message ----- From: MillB at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating Anny: Here's Merwin's answer. Berryman I will tell you what he told me in the years just after the war as we then called the second world war don't lose your arrogance yet he said you can do that when you're older lose it too soon and you may merely replace it with vanity just one time he suggested changing the usual order of the same words in a line of verse why point out a thing twice he suggested I pray to the Muse get down on my knees and pray right there in the corner and he said he meant it literally it was in the days before the beard and the drink but he was deep in tides of his own through which he sailed chin sideways and head tilted like a tacking sloop he was far older than the dates allowed for much older than I was he was in his thirties he snapped down his nose with an accent I think he had affected in England as for publishing he advised me to paper my wall with rejection slips his lips and the bones of his long fingers trembled with the vehemence of his views about poetry he said the great presence that permitted everything and transmuted it in poetry was passion passion was genius and he praised movement and invention I had hardly begun to read I asked how can you ever be sure that what you write is really any good at all and he said you can't you can't you can never be sure you die without knowing whether anything you wrote was any good if you have to be sure don't write "Berryman" from Flower & Hand, copyright ? 1997 by W. S. Merwin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Jun 9 11:15:00 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:15:00 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <6c.2e54bdbd.2c1258c4@aol.com> <019601c32c78$80bf6370$5b15e589@TECH> <3EE11766.9D611A3E@earthlink.net> <01d101c32c7e$8778d3d0$5b15e589@TECH> <008c01c32c94$1d0562a0$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> <3EE1F5A0.DF5AFACB@localnet.com> <006701c32e6b$8aad56e0$6d607550@anny> <005601c32e7f$78f2acc0$93b9fea9@j1c1k6> <013a01c32e82$7782e8c0$6d607550@anny> <007601c32e8f$614f64e0$93b9fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <003001c32e99$e55da760$6d607550@anny> From: "Bob Grumman" To: > Hey, for your information, *I* am THE futurist of our times. (Just kidding. > Good luck.) > > --Bob G. Privileged to know you, then, :-) a From anny.ballardini at tin.it Mon Jun 9 11:24:46 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:24:46 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: <20030609131208.0ABC03A95@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: <003a01c32e9b$42c7ba20$6d607550@anny> I agree, though Merwin's answer seems so limpid, still we or at least I know that I know that creation and recreation are sometimes so similar as to be confused and I also know that despite my efforts I spend my time in reacreation instead of creating to the point that my fascination could even go to hard labor, gardening, for the effort and concentration involved, or for the bliss in the level of tiredness and weariness reached. This is what I meant. Annihilation could be a form of creativity, stoicism for example is one of the many teachers. Thanks for your answer, anny > Anny, > > Any time you create original work, you are making art. All else is > re-creation. > > Bob > > Poetry Catamaran > > "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" > > Robert R. Cobb > AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. > http://rrcobb.tripod.com From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Mon Jun 9 12:01:30 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:01:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating In-Reply-To: <003a01c32e9b$42c7ba20$6d607550@anny> References: <20030609131208.0ABC03A95@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030609105721.01b11ea0@mail.ilstu.edu> Hi Anny, Wasn't it Sartre who'd said again and again he learned to write by copying out -- verbatim, cum stylo -- the novels of those writers he'd admired. But too again, going through the New York Times in such a fashion throws new light on the old ridiculous saw that poetry's news that stays news. Gabe At 05:24 PM 6/9/2003 +0200, you wrote: >I agree, > >though Merwin's answer seems so limpid, > >still we or at least I know that I know that creation and recreation are >sometimes so similar as to be confused and I also know that despite my >efforts I spend my time in reacreation instead of creating to the point that >my fascination could even go to hard labor, gardening, for the effort and >concentration involved, or for the bliss in the level of tiredness and >weariness reached. > >This is what I meant. Annihilation could be a form of creativity, stoicism >for example is one of the many teachers. > >Thanks for your answer, anny > > > Anny, > > > > Any time you create original work, you are making art. All else is > > re-creation. > > > > Bob > > > > Poetry Catamaran > > > > "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the'known >mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" > > > > Robert R. Cobb > > AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. > > http://rrcobb.tripod.com > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Mon Jun 9 12:57:32 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:57:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030609105721.01b11ea0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: I think I read somewhere that Harry Crews claims to have learned a good deal about novel writing by typing out whole novels he admired. Paul Lake on 6/9/03 11:01 AM, Gabriel Gudding at gmguddi at ilstu.edu wrote: > Hi Anny, > > Wasn't it Sartre who'd said again and again he learned to write by copying > out -- verbatim, cum stylo -- the novels of those writers he'd admired. > > But too again, going through the New York Times in such a fashion throws > new light on the old ridiculous saw that poetry's news that stays news. > > Gabe > > At 05:24 PM 6/9/2003 +0200, you wrote: >> I agree, >> >> though Merwin's answer seems so limpid, >> >> still we or at least I know that I know that creation and recreation are >> sometimes so similar as to be confused and I also know that despite my >> efforts I spend my time in reacreation instead of creating to the point that >> my fascination could even go to hard labor, gardening, for the effort and >> concentration involved, or for the bliss in the level of tiredness and >> weariness reached. >> >> This is what I meant. Annihilation could be a form of creativity, stoicism >> for example is one of the many teachers. >> --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cc at opus0.com Mon Jun 9 13:36:19 2003 From: cc at opus0.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:36:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: This is Totally Fascinating In-Reply-To: <200306070126.h571Q2ST006190@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Thank Gabe for posting this. Thank Goldsmith for doing it. Thank God for Goldsmith. Someone had to bring Duchamp and Cage into poetry, and I'm glad it wasn't me. Just the other day I was thinking--"Though I do not want to, someone will have to introduce 2 of Duchamp's step children to still-precious poetry--dada & pop..." But KG's saved me at least 5 year's work--maybe 7 or 8. And yet we can all benefit from the enlarged perceptual field he's opened. It's eerie to think of Ashbery and O'Hara walking by Cage on the street or by Duchamp's house (on 72nd?, I've lost the address--I passed by, trying to glimpse the spirit of MD spinning the bicycle wheel), on their way to MOMA for an opening of abstract expressionism--completely missing the more profoundly disturbing, more widely influential art of their day. (Most of Duchamp's work is in Philadelphia.) Who cares about De Kooning or Pollock today--besides the owners of their canvasses, who is still influenced by them? Meanwhile, Cage and Duchamp continue to work their weird magic. Though DAY may be a perfect textual representation of a NYTimes, to me it is a distorted and uninteresting representation of a day. (Same with WEEK and MONTH.) You can see the unhealthy (my diagnosis) influence here of Warhol. Kultur eating itself. I'd like to see them, but am not interested in reading them. I'm much more interested in Soliloquy (KG records every conversation he had for 1 week) and Fidget (KG records every body movement he makes for 1 day), and I believe there is more to learn from them--to expand awareness of what we could call 'daily discourse'. Good interview with Marjorie Perloff: http://jacketmagazine.com/21/perl-gold-iv.html KG's site has refs to many text/poetic experiments by others: http://www.ubu.com/ (Note the tip to Alfred Jarry, a secret influence on MD.) Dadaism arrives in poetry, 87.3 years late! What a lovely thing to be just-in-time. > From: Gabriel Gudding > >Kenneth Goldsmith > >DAY > >(836 pages) > > > >With this simple act of transcription, Goldsmith critiques the > > culturally cherished values of creativity and originality in writing. Following the > traditions of Duchamp's Fountain (1917) and Andy Warhol's work in the visual arts, or the > >ubiquitous practices of sampling and plunderphonics in contemporary music, Goldsmith > > asks, "Nearly one hundred years after Duchamp, why hasn't appropriation become a valid, > > sustained or even tested literary practice?" > > > >"When I reach 40, I hope to have cleansed myself of all creativity." From marcus at designerglass.com Mon Jun 9 14:01:00 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 14:01:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: This is Totally Fascinating In-Reply-To: References: <200306070126.h571Q2ST006190@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3EE4931C.18975.149C3BF@localhost> Having announced this clown Goldsmith's loonytunes scheme to my staff of artists, I'm proud to promulgate the Carlton Theory of Art It ain't art until some fool buys it. And the Kraska Corollary: And if enough fools buy it it's only a craft. Marcus On 9 Jun 2003 at 10:36, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Thank Gabe for posting this. > Thank Goldsmith for doing it. > Thank God for Goldsmith. > > Someone had to bring Duchamp and Cage into poetry, and I'm glad it wasn't > me. Just the other day I was thinking--"Though I do not want to, someone > will have to introduce 2 of Duchamp's step children to still-precious > poetry--dada & pop..." But KG's saved me at least 5 year's work--maybe 7 or > 8. And yet we can all benefit from the enlarged perceptual field he's > opened. It's eerie to think of Ashbery and O'Hara walking by Cage on the > street or by Duchamp's house (on 72nd?, I've lost the address--I passed by, > trying to glimpse the spirit of MD spinning the bicycle wheel), on their way > to MOMA for an opening of abstract expressionism--completely missing the > more profoundly disturbing, more widely influential art of their day. (Most > of Duchamp's work is in Philadelphia.) Who cares about De Kooning or > Pollock today--besides the owners of their canvasses, who is still > influenced by them? Meanwhile, Cage and Duchamp continue to work their > weird magic. > > Though DAY may be a perfect textual representation of a NYTimes, to me it is > a distorted and uninteresting representation of a day. (Same with WEEK and > MONTH.) You can see the unhealthy (my diagnosis) influence here of Warhol. > Kultur eating itself. I'd like to see them, but am not interested in > reading them. I'm much more interested in Soliloquy (KG records every > conversation he had for 1 week) and Fidget (KG records every body movement > he makes for 1 day), and I believe there is more to learn from them--to > expand awareness of what we could call 'daily discourse'. Good interview > with Marjorie Perloff: http://jacketmagazine.com/21/perl-gold-iv.html KG's > site has refs to many text/poetic experiments by others: http://www.ubu.com/ > (Note the tip to Alfred Jarry, a secret influence on MD.) > > Dadaism arrives in poetry, 87.3 years late! What a lovely thing to be > just-in-time. > > > > > From: Gabriel Gudding > > >Kenneth Goldsmith > > >DAY > > >(836 pages) > > > > > >With this simple act of transcription, Goldsmith critiques the > > > culturally cherished values of creativity and originality in writing. > Following the > > traditions of Duchamp's Fountain (1917) and Andy Warhol's work in the > visual arts, or the > > >ubiquitous practices of sampling and plunderphonics in contemporary > music, Goldsmith > > > asks, "Nearly one hundred years after Duchamp, why hasn't appropriation > become a valid, > > > sustained or even tested literary practice?" > > > > > >"When I reach 40, I hope to have cleansed myself of all creativity." > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From luap at mallasch.com Mon Jun 9 14:17:03 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:17:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: dada Re: [New-Poetry] RE: This is Totally Fascinating In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I tried once making a poem out of the words that appeared in my referrer logs for my website. That is, I made a poem using the words people had used to find my site. Was interesting. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Crisman Cooley wrote: > Thank Gabe for posting this. > Thank Goldsmith for doing it. > Thank God for Goldsmith. > > Someone had to bring Duchamp and Cage into poetry, and I'm glad it wasn't > me. Just the other day I was thinking--"Though I do not want to, someone > will have to introduce 2 of Duchamp's step children to still-precious > poetry--dada & pop..." But KG's saved me at least 5 year's work--maybe 7 or > 8. And yet we can all benefit from the enlarged perceptual field he's > opened. It's eerie to think of Ashbery and O'Hara walking by Cage on the > street or by Duchamp's house (on 72nd?, I've lost the address--I passed by, > trying to glimpse the spirit of MD spinning the bicycle wheel), on their way > to MOMA for an opening of abstract expressionism--completely missing the > more profoundly disturbing, more widely influential art of their day. (Most > of Duchamp's work is in Philadelphia.) Who cares about De Kooning or > Pollock today--besides the owners of their canvasses, who is still > influenced by them? Meanwhile, Cage and Duchamp continue to work their > weird magic. > > Though DAY may be a perfect textual representation of a NYTimes, to me it is > a distorted and uninteresting representation of a day. (Same with WEEK and > MONTH.) You can see the unhealthy (my diagnosis) influence here of Warhol. > Kultur eating itself. I'd like to see them, but am not interested in > reading them. I'm much more interested in Soliloquy (KG records every > conversation he had for 1 week) and Fidget (KG records every body movement > he makes for 1 day), and I believe there is more to learn from them--to > expand awareness of what we could call 'daily discourse'. Good interview > with Marjorie Perloff: http://jacketmagazine.com/21/perl-gold-iv.html KG's > site has refs to many text/poetic experiments by others: http://www.ubu.com/ > (Note the tip to Alfred Jarry, a secret influence on MD.) > > Dadaism arrives in poetry, 87.3 years late! What a lovely thing to be > just-in-time. > > > > > From: Gabriel Gudding > > >Kenneth Goldsmith > > >DAY > > >(836 pages) > > > > > >With this simple act of transcription, Goldsmith critiques the > > > culturally cherished values of creativity and originality in writing. > Following the > > traditions of Duchamp's Fountain (1917) and Andy Warhol's work in the > visual arts, or the > > >ubiquitous practices of sampling and plunderphonics in contemporary > music, Goldsmith > > > asks, "Nearly one hundred years after Duchamp, why hasn't appropriation > become a valid, > > > sustained or even tested literary practice?" > > > > > >"When I reach 40, I hope to have cleansed myself of all creativity." > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From MillB at aol.com Mon Jun 9 14:34:19 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:34:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Scholarships and Grants Message-ID: <60.31a0668a.2c162d2b@aol.com> Greetings: This is off topic, but one of my former students is trying to obtain funding, to continue college. Does anyone know of good databases or web sites that I might recommend to her? Many thanks, Mill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards at prodigy.net Mon Jun 9 14:34:40 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:34:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: Message-ID: <001701c32eb5$ca0be000$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> I asked Carolee about that when it was brought up in a Wall Street Journal article a few years ago, about a sexual topics expo at SUNY New Paltz. She said it was a misreporting of something that had happend (and originally been misreported) 25 years ago -- that the writer of the Wall Street Journal piece basically thinks that she is everything that's wrong with American art, and never misses a chance to attack her. This was at a funeral, so I didn't get a chance to discuss the subject further and ask her exactly what the performance piece was. Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating > In a message dated 6/9/03 5:45:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > anny.ballardini at tin.it writes: > > > am asking you, here I am with the conclusion, is this to be considered a > > "work of art"? > A good number of artists are appropriating/incorporating literary > texts (& other textual materials) into more visually dynamic > presentations (mixed media). It's art, for sure. The performance artist > Carolee Schneeman (sp?) has a piece called "Scroll", in which > she removes (or unravels) a scroll of text from her vagina. > Of course, poets are (& have been fro some time) exploiting works > of visual art. This occurs in many forms and methods, from a pure > response to the work to an extension of the work beyond what is > rendered. > The Goldsmith piece is "anti-art" that became art as soon as > decided to publicize the conceptual nature of his undertaking. > It's inevitably a boring art...it's only merit being the way it calls > attention to the difficulty of purifying oneself of an impulse toward > making ("uncreativity," as he referred to it) art. > Finnegan > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards at prodigy.net Mon Jun 9 14:41:24 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:41:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating References: Message-ID: <005201c32eb6$baa580c0$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> R.V. Cassill was the one who gave me this particular bit of advice, thoiugh he was less daunting -- he suggested short stories. Then, he said, go through it again and start improvising, taking liberties with the original text. Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Lake" To: Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] This is Totally Fascinating > I think I read somewhere that Harry Crews claims to have learned a good deal > about novel writing by typing out whole novels he admired. > > Paul Lake > > > > on 6/9/03 11:01 AM, Gabriel Gudding at gmguddi at ilstu.edu wrote: > > > Hi Anny, > > > > Wasn't it Sartre who'd said again and again he learned to write by copying > > out -- verbatim, cum stylo -- the novels of those writers he'd admired. > > > > But too again, going through the New York Times in such a fashion throws > > new light on the old ridiculous saw that poetry's news that stays news. > > > > Gabe > > > > At 05:24 PM 6/9/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >> I agree, > >> > >> though Merwin's answer seems so limpid, > >> > >> still we or at least I know that I know that creation and recreation are > >> sometimes so similar as to be confused and I also know that despite my > >> efforts I spend my time in reacreation instead of creating to the point that > >> my fascination could even go to hard labor, gardening, for the effort and > >> concentration involved, or for the bliss in the level of tiredness and > >> weariness reached. > >> > >> This is what I meant. Annihilation could be a form of creativity, stoicism > >> for example is one of the many teachers. > >> > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Plus65poet at aol.com Mon Jun 9 20:30:54 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:30:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry is my life Message-ID: <78.4126d89c.2c1680be@aol.com> Hi all, I have been an amateur poet all my life. But now that I've retired from Goodyear Tires (31 years) I want to not to be selfish anymore about it and to make a contribution to the humanities. I feel that I have very hidden gifts that I have been witholding to everybody from me. There are feelings inside me that are so great that it makes me feel like I'm going to explode. Have you ever felt like that? My kids keep on encouraging me to get my verse "out there." It is like none other. However, in an effort to learn about it I have been an effortful reader of this list and others. So . . . How does one begin? What should a cover letter consist of (info)? How many poems can one send out to them? What are the magazines that can accept an unknown star (hopefully)? Are there support/peer groups? Who are the best poets that somebody should read? I'm no pointy-headed egghead. There are a lot of smart people on this list that are a lot smarter than I. But I want to write for the average person because everybody needs that spirituality. (Back channel for example of my ongoing oevure.) Sincerely, D.J. From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Mon Jun 9 21:37:34 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: This is Totally Fascinating Message-ID: <20030610013734.DC14C462D@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Jun 10 02:00:48 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:00:48 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: This is Totally Fascinating References: Message-ID: <002501c32f15$a45ec9c0$d31c2dd5@anny> The much I can be with you with Dadaism, and yes Jarry! I dislike the fact you leave Pollock out. Maybe Duchamp fits better with poetry and Pollock more with color and art, tangible visual thickness, this could be a reason. A poem I wrote and liked more last year than now, still an homage - jackson pollock i know this dripping of yours i feel those notes the same way you do not because I want to sell my pics at your price, that makes me laugh i am more similar to you in your car crash when you looked for your death isn't it - that true a swirling of the spirit staring at the beauties etching themselves inside urgently looking for someone to share your soul your own sound solipsism going in and out of yourself touched by air transformed in thick drops of paint what are those fairy tales that make us crazy one way roads one way tracks and trains and trains in my head go & return, sure, where do you think i am going to sleep? return to where if your home is not here and here we go with the key of longing in that desperate attempt of getting back > Thank Gabe for posting this. > Thank Goldsmith for doing it. > Thank God for Goldsmith. > > Someone had to bring Duchamp and Cage into poetry, and I'm glad it wasn't > me. Just the other day I was thinking--"Though I do not want to, someone > will have to introduce 2 of Duchamp's step children to still-precious > poetry--dada & pop..." But KG's saved me at least 5 year's work--maybe 7 or > 8. And yet we can all benefit from the enlarged perceptual field he's > opened. It's eerie to think of Ashbery and O'Hara walking by Cage on the > street or by Duchamp's house (on 72nd?, I've lost the address--I passed by, > trying to glimpse the spirit of MD spinning the bicycle wheel), on their way > to MOMA for an opening of abstract expressionism--completely missing the > more profoundly disturbing, more widely influential art of their day. (Most > of Duchamp's work is in Philadelphia.) Who cares about De Kooning or > Pollock today--besides the owners of their canvasses, who is still > influenced by them? Meanwhile, Cage and Duchamp continue to work their > weird magic. > > Though DAY may be a perfect textual representation of a NYTimes, to me it is > a distorted and uninteresting representation of a day. (Same with WEEK and > MONTH.) You can see the unhealthy (my diagnosis) influence here of Warhol. > Kultur eating itself. I'd like to see them, but am not interested in > reading them. I'm much more interested in Soliloquy (KG records every > conversation he had for 1 week) and Fidget (KG records every body movement > he makes for 1 day), and I believe there is more to learn from them--to > expand awareness of what we could call 'daily discourse'. Good interview > with Marjorie Perloff: http://jacketmagazine.com/21/perl-gold-iv.html KG's > site has refs to many text/poetic experiments by others: http://www.ubu.com/ > (Note the tip to Alfred Jarry, a secret influence on MD.) > > Dadaism arrives in poetry, 87.3 years late! What a lovely thing to be > just-in-time. > > > > > From: Gabriel Gudding > > >Kenneth Goldsmith > > >DAY > > >(836 pages) > > > > > >With this simple act of transcription, Goldsmith critiques the > > > culturally cherished values of creativity and originality in writing. > Following the > > traditions of Duchamp's Fountain (1917) and Andy Warhol's work in the > visual arts, or the > > >ubiquitous practices of sampling and plunderphonics in contemporary > music, Goldsmith > > > asks, "Nearly one hundred years after Duchamp, why hasn't appropriation > become a valid, > > > sustained or even tested literary practice?" > > > > > >"When I reach 40, I hope to have cleansed myself of all creativity." > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue Jun 10 05:19:38 2003 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:19:38 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: This is Totally Fascinating References: <002501c32f15$a45ec9c0$d31c2dd5@anny> Message-ID: <003e01c32f31$6ad8c540$a0b5fea9@hamilton2hg13.btinternet.com> From: "Anny Ballardini" > The much I can be with you with Dadaism, and yes Jarry! "My Art belongs to Dada", as Trizan Tzara says to Joyce and Lenin in Tom Stoppard's play, _Travesties_. There was a tinge of Dada in Glasgow poetry of the sixties, focused through a magazine called _NiK_ [sic]. > A poem I wrote and liked more last year than now, still an homage - > > jackson pollock > > i know this dripping of yours ... VERY nice poem, BTW. Robin (... the Iceman, considered as a downhill bicycle race.) From Plus65poet at aol.com Tue Jun 10 06:32:29 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:32:29 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry Message-ID: <1c7.ae0eb44.2c170dbd@aol.com> Hi all, I'm attempting to think up ways in which baseball and poetry can be said to be very similar. Have you ever considered this: Both are played on a field of dreams. And the umpire is like the reader in a sense, isn't he? Also basball has no time limit; neither does poetry. Shakespeare is timeless! I guess baseball *is* the best sport to compare with the arts in general. Football and basketball don't seem to really click with it. Any further ideas on this topic would be greatly appreciated. P.S. Of course my own examples just scratch the surface of this topic. P.S.S. Thanks for the kind backchannels! Yours truly, D.J. From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 06:59:17 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:59:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry Message-ID: DJ: I never thought of baseball as being similar to poetry, but I think you might be right. A poet has to be a good switch hitter, play the field and occasionaly stop to scratch. Deborah Russell http://groups.msn.com/ParallelsStudio http://worldhaikureview.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm attempting to think up ways in which baseball and poetry can be said to be very similar. Have you ever considered this: Both are played on a field of dreams. And the umpire is like the reader in a sense, isn't he? Also basball has no time limit; neither does poetry. Shakespeare is timeless! I guess baseball *is* the best sport to compare with the arts in general. Football and basketball don't seem to really click with it. Any further ideas on this topic would be greatly appreciated. P.S. Of course my own examples just scratch the surface of this topic. P.S.S. Thanks for the kind backchannels! Yours truly, D.J. _______________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From Plus65poet at aol.com Tue Jun 10 07:08:29 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:08:29 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry Message-ID: <160.21831cfb.2c17162d@aol.com> "I never thought of baseball as being similar to poetry, but I think you might be right. A poet has to be a good switch hitter, play the field and occasionaly stop to scratch." Thanks, Debby--you gave me more fuel for my fire. I think I really have got a hold of something significant. Sincerely, D.J. From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue Jun 10 07:08:39 2003 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:08:39 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry References: <1c7.ae0eb44.2c170dbd@aol.com> Message-ID: <015d01c32f40$a5b1a100$a0b5fea9@hamilton2hg13.btinternet.com> D.J.: > And the umpire is like the reader in a sense, isn't he? How about the umpire as the literal/enacted addressee of the poem, and the spectators as readers? The live play as the poem performed at a reading, and video replays as the poem printed? Just a thots ... Robin From Plus65poet at aol.com Tue Jun 10 07:18:54 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:18:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Foreign travel Message-ID: <65.12d879c5.2c17189e@aol.com> Hi all, Now that I have entered my golden years I have found that I have a lot of free time (too much!!) on my hands. During the years of my employment at Goodyear Tire, they situated me mostly in the Southeast. But I have never left this country--not even Canada--nor have I ever obtained an American passport. Lately it seems to me that I should broaden myself. I do have some capital to mess with, but which country should I visit first? Europe is the obvious choice because it's America's original homeland, but the language gap makes me a little nervous. The French know how to speak English, but they'll pretend that they don't, according to most people. So that leaves Ireland and England. Is there a lot to see in Ireland and England, aside from London? When is the best time for foreign travel? I would appreciate some advice as I wouldn't want to come across to the Europeans as your typical ugly American. Sincerely, D.J. From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Tue Jun 10 07:27:41 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 04:27:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry References: <160.21831cfb.2c17162d@aol.com> Message-ID: <3EE5C0AD.5EF54163@earthlink.net> In some places, the game is played within a dome. I had other lines but they were rained out. - Jim Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > > "I never thought of baseball as being similar to poetry, but I think you > might be right. > > A poet has to be a good switch hitter, play the field and occasionaly > stop to scratch." > > Thanks, Debby--you gave me more fuel for my fire. I think I really have got > a hold of something significant. > > Sincerely, > D.J. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Plus65poet at aol.com Tue Jun 10 07:29:14 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:29:14 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry Message-ID: <143.12ee9c49.2c171b0a@aol.com> "The live play as the poem performed at a reading, and video replays as the poem printed?" Dear Robin, can you believe it? I have never been to a poetry reading because I was always too embarassed to go. When you look back on your life from a different perspective you can't believe what an ass you can be. But you were! There are a lot of things I would change now if I could go back and do it all over again. Sincerely, D.J. From Plus65poet at aol.com Tue Jun 10 08:20:20 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:20:20 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters Message-ID: <1a3.15fc0a0d.2c172704@aol.com> Hi gang, Maybe some of you have had this experience. The one time I sent my poems out they were rejected. (I won't name the culprit.) There wasn't even an explanation from the editors. I had decanted my whole being--my very soul-- into those 25 poems. I sweated and I bled over them. Every single word had to be perfect. And it was!! But they didn't have the courtesy to write even a 100 word letter of acknowledgement to me. Just a form letter. So I began to have the feeling that it was all corrupt. It's about who you know, not what you know that's the big divider. Life experience and spirituality count for nothing, according to the high-ups and the snobs. But I'm going to climb right back in the saddle and send out even more poems this time. The trick is finding the right match between your taste and sombody else's opinion. Or is this the wrong philosophy? Sometimes I doubt myself because the world of creatiity is still so new to me. Then I just want to burn everything I write. Sincerely, D.J. From MillB at aol.com Tue Jun 10 09:02:04 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:02:04 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters Message-ID: <24.3ff130fd.2c1730cc@aol.com> DJ: You need to obtain a thicker skin. Once you send your work out into the world, divorce your as you say "soul" from it. Even if your work is great, the odds are stacked against you. For every poem you submit, expect to receive 100 rejections. That's just the marketplace. It's like looking for a job. To land one interview, the average person must send out 200 resumes. Still, the best advice is to read the literary publications you submit work to, then decide which work of yours the editor might think is a good fit. Much luck-- Mill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MillB at aol.com Tue Jun 10 09:06:06 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:06:06 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry Message-ID: <1ac.1602d461.2c1731be@aol.com> DJ: George Carlin has a great comedy routine comparing football and baseball. Check it out. Mill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luap at mallasch.com Tue Jun 10 09:23:22 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:23:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters In-Reply-To: <1a3.15fc0a0d.2c172704@aol.com> Message-ID: It comes down to talent, persistance, and luck - having the poems in the right hands at the right time. You're sure to accumulate (SP?) more form rejections. Don't let it get to you, though. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > Hi gang, > > Maybe some of you have had this experience. The one time I sent my poems out > they were rejected. (I won't name the culprit.) There wasn't even an > explanation from the editors. I had decanted my whole being--my very soul-- into > those 25 poems. I sweated and I bled over them. Every single word had to be > perfect. And it was!! But they didn't have the courtesy to write even a 100 > word letter of acknowledgement to me. Just a form letter. So I began to have > the feeling that it was all corrupt. It's about who you know, not what you > know that's the big divider. Life experience and spirituality count for nothing, > according to the high-ups and the snobs. But I'm going to climb right back > in the saddle and send out even more poems this time. The trick is finding the > right match between your taste and sombody else's opinion. Or is this the > wrong philosophy? Sometimes I doubt myself because the world of creatiity is > still so new to me. Then I just want to burn everything I write. > > Sincerely, > D.J. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu Tue Jun 10 09:42:44 2003 From: mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu (mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:42:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "My Angie Dickinson" at 60 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1055252564.3ee5e054750c9@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Hi all, Just letting you know that my serial poem "My Angie Dickinson" now includes 60 poems all of which can be found at http://myangiedickinson.blogspot.com The site has also been spruced up by my secret webmeister (not me, really). -m. From Plus65poet at aol.com Tue Jun 10 09:53:05 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:53:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters Message-ID: <99.38e61b3e.2c173cc1@aol.com> Dear Paul and Mill, Thanks a ton for the welcome advice. I will develop a harder attitude. What really got my goat though was that I had to wait for MORE THAN A MONTH AND A HALF to hear about my poems. After the 3rd week, I thought, Hmm they must like 'em. After the fifth week I started telling everybody that I was going to be published. And then that plain form letter landed on me like a ton of bricks. Ka-Powy!! I had to tell everybody that it was all a big mix-up, my poetry would not be featured. Still what are the editors paid for but to be discerning minds? How can they reject so many good poems? Do they really take 1 in a hundred? Think of all the great poetry that is going to waste! I also appreciate the advice to read the magazines you are considering submitting to in advance in order to tailor your work to their tastes instead of the other way around. That will cut down the odds. What I have going against me is that I write religious poetry mainly. Say the word "Jesus" in a poem and 9 out of 10 people will tune you out. And that goes even for the high class publications outside of New York City. Sincerely, D.J. >>OLD AGE IS NOT FOR SISSIES.<< From jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 10 09:54:10 2003 From: jnewberry1974 at yahoo.com (Jeff Newberry) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030610135410.18811.qmail@web13002.mail.yahoo.com> I have a gallery of rejection letters that I've saved. I show them to my students. In one class, my students wrote a classification essay about rejection letters. Some are real gems. Question: what's the most interesting rejection letter you've ever received? Jeff Newberry "K. Paul Mallasch" wrote: It comes down to talent, persistance, and luck - having the poems in the right hands at the right time. You're sure to accumulate (SP?) more form rejections. Don't let it get to you, though. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > Hi gang, > > Maybe some of you have had this experience. The one time I sent my poems out > they were rejected. (I won't name the culprit.) There wasn't even an > explanation from the editors. I had decanted my whole being--my very soul-- into > those 25 poems. I sweated and I bled over them. Every single word had to be > perfect. And it was!! But they didn't have the courtesy to write even a 100 > word letter of acknowledgement to me. Just a form letter. So I began to have > the feeling that it was all corrupt. It's about who you know, not what you > know that's the big divider. Life experience and spirituality count for nothing, > according to the high-ups and the snobs. But I'm going to climb right back > in the saddle and send out even more poems this time. The trick is finding the > right match between your taste and sombody else's opinion. Or is this the > wrong philosophy? Sometimes I doubt myself because the world of creatiity is > still so new to me. Then I just want to burn everything I write. > > Sincerely, > D.J. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MillB at aol.com Tue Jun 10 10:06:31 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:06:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters Message-ID: DJ: Not to burst your bubble even further, but a month and a half is an extrememly SHORT time for a response. I've waited more than a year. . .Three to six months is about "the norm." Editors, generally, are unpaid or receive a small stipend and most are overwhelmed by the thousands of submissions they receive each month. Publications which are sponsored by a university are further slowed down by teaching loads and semester breaks. My advice is to be kind, patient and considerate. Research your markets before your submit work. There are guides and there is always the library. Search for specialty markets, niches for religious poetry, or magazines that feature work similar to yours. Again, Good luck. Mill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luap at mallasch.com Tue Jun 10 10:19:04 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:19:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters In-Reply-To: <20030610135410.18811.qmail@web13002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think mine would have to be from the late 80s, early 90s - something from St. Marks poetry project (i think) in New York. Something scribbled on a spare sheet of paper. Odd, but comforting. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, Jeff Newberry wrote: > I have a gallery of rejection letters that I've saved. I show them to my students. In one class, my students wrote a classification essay about rejection letters. > > Some are real gems. Question: what's the most interesting rejection letter you've ever received? > > > Jeff Newberry > > "K. Paul Mallasch" wrote: > It comes down to talent, persistance, and luck - having the poems in the > right hands at the right time. You're sure to accumulate (SP?) more > form rejections. Don't let it get to you, though. > > -kpaul > mallasch.com/mug/ > > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > > > Hi gang, > > > > Maybe some of you have had this experience. The one time I sent my poems out > > they were rejected. (I won't name the culprit.) There wasn't even an > > explanation from the editors. I had decanted my whole being--my very soul-- into > > those 25 poems. I sweated and I bled over them. Every single word had to be > > perfect. And it was!! But they didn't have the courtesy to write even a 100 > > word letter of acknowledgement to me. Just a form letter. So I began to have > > the feeling that it was all corrupt. It's about who you know, not what you > > know that's the big divider. Life experience and spirituality count for nothing, > > according to the high-ups and the snobs. But I'm going to climb right back > > in the saddle and send out even more poems this time. The trick is finding the > > right match between your taste and sombody else's opinion. Or is this the > > wrong philosophy? Sometimes I doubt myself because the world of creatiity is > > still so new to me. Then I just want to burn everything I write. > > > > Sincerely, > > D.J. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). From mbyrne at risd.edu Tue Jun 10 10:22:08 2003 From: mbyrne at risd.edu (Mairead Byrne) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:22:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Foreign travel Message-ID: Dear D.J., On your way with to see the world with your capital you might like to drop in to Providence, Rhode Island for some financial and life advice (over the weekend for the first time I heard about "life coaches": a whole new occupation I knew nothing about). I'm an advocate of living in a place rather than visiting (borrowing an apartment, housesitting, renting if necessary), and also working (writing, researching) when you're there. I don't even like to go to Ireland, where I'm from, unless I have some sort of base set up and a "project." I'm a nomad but a professional one. Of all the countries I've ever been in, leaving aside this glorious nation, my favorite is Turkey. To me, coming from Ireland, it was a huge and fertile, though violent, place, stunning in its beauty. Great people. You're lucky lucky lucky! Okay, Ireland. No matter what you do you're going to come across as the typical ugly American so don't even try. There can be gross prejudice against Americans in Ireland (other countries too of course). The best way to deal with it is to keep your sense of humor and not to give too much of a damn. Other than that keep as quiet as possible. The west coast of Ireland is very beautiful, tip to toe, inlet to outlet. Bring your raincoat. More information later if you decide to go. Mairead Mair?ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> Plus65poet at aol.com 06/10/03 07:26 AM >>> Hi all, Now that I have entered my golden years I have found that I have a lot of free time (too much!!) on my hands. During the years of my employment at Goodyear Tire, they situated me mostly in the Southeast. But I have never left this country--not even Canada--nor have I ever obtained an American passport. Lately it seems to me that I should broaden myself. I do have some capital to mess with, but which country should I visit first? Europe is the obvious choice because it's America's original homeland, but the language gap makes me a little nervous. The French know how to speak English, but they'll pretend that they don't, according to most people. So that leaves Ireland and England. Is there a lot to see in Ireland and England, aside from London? When is the best time for foreign travel? I would appreciate some advice as I wouldn't want to come across to the Europeans as your typical ugly American. Sincerely, D.J. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Jun 10 10:59:23 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:59:23 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters In-Reply-To: <20030610135410.18811.qmail@web13002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No contest: the best rejections in history came from George Hitchcock at the late lamented *Kayak* magazine. I have many in my file, I confess. They were rather Max-Ernstish collages & copyright free engravings, quite hilarious: e.g. a missionary being roasted on a spit, a hapless defendent standing before a judge as dragons loomed in the background, etc. My personal favorite was signed "Edith Twaddle," who I suspect just *might* not have been a real person. After a while I sent to *Kayak* just for the pleasure of being rejected, as I always was. He did publish a letter-to-the-editor of mine once, though, which I took as a major triumph. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== Some are real gems. Question: what's the most interesting rejection letter you've ever received? Jeff Newberry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier at localnet.com Tue Jun 10 11:12:47 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:12:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters References: Message-ID: <3EE5F56E.87C82637@localnet.com> You know when you can laugh at a rejection letter something marvelous has occurred. Please stay tuned for the summer issue of "The Rejected Quarterly" wherein I have an essay classifying rejection letters and admitting that I crave them. My personal favorite was a from a magazine long defunct who had asked for new and interesting work. Below the printed paragraph was a handwritten note: nothing new or interesting here. Wow. Talk about gratuitous violence. On the plus side MAD used to send a full page photo of Alfred E. Newman giving you the finger. I sent them something just to get a copy. Of course, those were the good old days. Now everybody is so egregiously polite I find it annoying. Thanks for sending this email to the list members. We appreciate the time and the postage and all the thought that went into composing the email, but unfortunately we are unable to post it for reasons having nothing to do with the quality of lack of it in your work. Please, please, forgive us and subscribe. Your friends here at ....... David Graham wrote: > No contest: the best rejections in history came from George Hitchcock > at the late lamented *Kayak* magazine. I have many in my file, I > confess. They were rather Max-Ernstish collages & copyright free > engravings, quite hilarious: e.g. a missionary being roasted on a > spit, a hapless defendent standing before a judge as dragons loomed in > the background, etc. My personal favorite was signed "Edith Twaddle," > who I suspect just *might* not have been a real person. After a while > I sent to *Kayak* just for the pleasure of being rejected, as I always > was. He did publish a letter-to-the-editor of mine once, though, > which I took as a major triumph. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > Some are real gems. Question: what's the most interesting > rejection letter you've ever received? > > > Jeff Newberry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 11:15:26 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:15:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters Message-ID: In 1989 I practically rid myself of every poem I wrote. Not a good idea. I send poems out for submission frequently, ninety percent of the time they are rejected. It is the nature of the beast. Out of a couple thousand poems, I've had a few 'winners', so rejections should not prevent you from writing or submitting. Just keep sweating and bleeding. :o) Its good for the soul. - Deborah Russell ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi gang, Maybe some of you have had this experience. The one time I sent my poems out they were rejected. (I won't name the culprit.) There wasn't even an explanation from the editors. I had decanted my whole being--my very soul-- into those 25 poems. I sweated and I bled over them. Every single word had to be perfect. And it was!! But they didn't have the courtesy to write even a 100 word letter of acknowledgement to me. Just a form letter. So I began to have the feeling that it was all corrupt. It's about who you know, not what you know that's the big divider. Life experience and spirituality count for nothing, according to the high-ups and the snobs. But I'm going to climb right back in the saddle and send out even more poems this time. The trick is finding the right match between your taste and sombody else's opinion. Or is this the wrong philosophy? Sometimes I doubt myself because the world of creatiity is still so new to me. Then I just want to burn everything I write. Sincerely, D.J. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 11:17:39 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:17:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry Message-ID: I love Carlin's routine...it is good stuff! :o) Deborah Russell DJ: George Carlin has a great comedy routine comparing football and baseball. Check it out. Mill Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 11:24:20 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:24:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters - Editors Message-ID: Editors are bombarded with submittals, most have a specific direction for each issue. It is quite time consuming and tedious work, with very little appreciation, except for the satisfaction of producing a good issue - preferably or ideally, 'better than the last'. I think the advice to find a match, by reading previous issues and comparing quality and style, is possibly your best information. Deborah Russell http://groups.msn.com/ParallelsStudio http://worldhaikureview.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear Paul and Mill, Thanks a ton for the welcome advice. I will develop a harder attitude. What really got my goat though was that I had to wait for MORE THAN A MONTH AND A HALF to hear about my poems. After the 3rd week, I thought, Hmm they must like 'em. After the fifth week I started telling everybody that I was going to be published. And then that plain form letter landed on me like a ton of bricks. Ka-Powy!! I had to tell everybody that it was all a big mix-up, my poetry would not be featured. Still what are the editors paid for but to be discerning minds? How can they reject so many good poems? Do they really take 1 in a hundred? Think of all the great poetry that is going to waste! I also appreciate the advice to read the magazines you are considering submitting to in advance in order to tailor your work to their tastes instead of the other way around. That will cut down the odds. What I have going against me is that I write religious poetry mainly. Say the word "Jesus" in a poem and 9 out of 10 people will tune you out. And that goes even for the high class publications outside of New York City. Sincerely, D.J. >>OLD AGE IS NOT FOR SISSIES.<< _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 11:29:14 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:29:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters Message-ID: Lol....that's a riot! Edith, huh? Maybe you should have sent your Artemis work. ha ha... Deborah Russell ----Original Message Follows---- From: David Graham Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:59:23 -0500 No contest: the best rejections in history came from George Hitchcock at the late lamented *Kayak* magazine. I have many in my file, I confess. They were rather Max-Ernstish collages & copyright free engravings, quite hilarious: e.g. a missionary being roasted on a spit, a hapless defendent standing before a judge as dragons loomed in the background, etc. My personal favorite was signed "Edith Twaddle," who I suspect just *might* not have been a real person. After a while I sent to *Kayak* just for the pleasure of being rejected, as I always was. He did publish a letter-to-the-editor of mine once, though, which I took as a major triumph. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== Some are real gems. Question: what's the most interesting rejection letter you've ever received? Jeff Newberry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com Tue Jun 10 11:26:33 2003 From: robin.hamilton2 at btinternet.com (Robin Hamilton) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:26:33 +0100 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters - Editors References: Message-ID: <009d01c32f64$ac9e5ac0$a0b5fea9@hamilton2hg13.btinternet.com> > I think the advice to find a > match, by reading previous issues and comparing quality and style, is > possibly your best information. > > Deborah Russell Also submit material to places where people whose work you like publish. (Acknowledgements pages are useful here.) And always have a submission letter, addressed envelope and SAE ready after you send off -- when the rejection arrives, simply take the rejected poems out of the old envelope, stick them in the new one, and post. If you do this quickly enough, the poems will be on their way again before the pain of rejection hits, and you won't get tears all over your MSS. Robin From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 11:33:31 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:33:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters Message-ID: I should pull my Alfred E Newman t shirt out and wear it for inspiration. Did you frame that, Helen ??? lol.... Deborah Russell ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----Original Message Follows---- From: Helen Ruggieri Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:12:47 -0400 You know when you can laugh at a rejection letter something marvelous has occurred. Please stay tuned for the summer issue of "The Rejected Quarterly" wherein I have an essay classifying rejection letters and admitting that I crave them. My personal favorite was a from a magazine long defunct who had asked for new and interesting work. Below the printed paragraph was a handwritten note: nothing new or interesting here. Wow. Talk about gratuitous violence. On the plus side MAD used to send a full page photo of Alfred E. Newman giving you the finger. I sent them something just to get a copy. Of course, those were the good old days. Now everybody is so egregiously polite I find it annoying. Thanks for sending this email to the list members. We appreciate the time and the postage and all the thought that went into composing the email, but unfortunately we are unable to post it for reasons having nothing to do with the quality of lack of it in your work. Please, please, forgive us and subscribe. Your friends here at ....... David Graham wrote: > No contest: the best rejections in history came from George Hitchcock > at the late lamented *Kayak* magazine. I have many in my file, I > confess. They were rather Max-Ernstish collages & copyright free > engravings, quite hilarious: e.g. a missionary being roasted on a > spit, a hapless defendent standing before a judge as dragons loomed in > the background, etc. My personal favorite was signed "Edith Twaddle," > who I suspect just *might* not have been a real person. After a while > I sent to *Kayak* just for the pleasure of being rejected, as I always > was. He did publish a letter-to-the-editor of mine once, though, > which I took as a major triumph. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > Some are real gems. Question: what's the most interesting > rejection letter you've ever received? > > > Jeff Newberry > Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From tadrichards at prodigy.net Tue Jun 10 11:42:00 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:42:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters References: Message-ID: <005601c32f66$d56372e0$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> I kinda liked a small magazine named KNOCKED, whose form rejection was KNOCKED says NO!!!! Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Russell" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters > I should pull my Alfred E Newman t shirt out and wear it for inspiration. > Did you frame that, Helen ??? > > lol.... > > Deborah Russell > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Helen Ruggieri > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:12:47 -0400 > > > You know when you can laugh at a rejection letter something marvelous > has occurred. > Please stay tuned for the summer issue of "The Rejected Quarterly" > wherein I have > an essay classifying rejection letters and admitting that I crave them. > > My personal favorite was a from a magazine long defunct who had asked > for new > and interesting work. Below the printed paragraph was a handwritten > note: > nothing new or interesting here. > > Wow. Talk about gratuitous violence. > > On the plus side MAD used to send a full page photo of Alfred E. Newman > giving you the finger. > > I sent them something just to get a copy. > > Of course, those were the good old days. Now everybody is so > egregiously polite > I find it annoying. > > Thanks for sending this email to the list members. We appreciate the > time and the > postage and all the thought that went into composing the email, but > unfortunately we are unable to post it for reasons having nothing to do > with the quality of lack of it in your work. Please, please, forgive us > and subscribe. > > Your friends here at ....... > > David Graham wrote: > > > No contest: the best rejections in history came from George Hitchcock > > at the late lamented *Kayak* magazine. I have many in my file, I > > confess. They were rather Max-Ernstish collages & copyright free > > engravings, quite hilarious: e.g. a missionary being roasted on a > > spit, a hapless defendent standing before a judge as dragons loomed in > > the background, etc. My personal favorite was signed "Edith Twaddle," > > who I suspect just *might* not have been a real person. After a while > > I sent to *Kayak* just for the pleasure of being rejected, as I always > > was. He did publish a letter-to-the-editor of mine once, though, > > which I took as a major triumph. > > > > ==================================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ==================================================== > > > > > > > > Some are real gems. Question: what's the most interesting > > rejection letter you've ever received? > > > > > > Jeff Newberry > > > > > > > > > Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet > > Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide > Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Plus65poet at aol.com Tue Jun 10 11:55:09 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:55:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems against racism Message-ID: <10c.2534c556.2c17595d@aol.com> Hi gang, For me, I never look at a person's color. Are you a good person? That's more important than anything. So I like to base my poems on true stories. My all-time favorite is about a black teenage girl who was raped and became pregnant. She was tempted to have an abortion. But she prayed and prayed and had an inspiration to keep the baby. So she did. Now her whole life is changed completely around. Today her child is 8 years old and the mother has joined the army. This woman's strength of faith is remarkable. Even though, when she looks at her child, she can never get out of her head the image of the man who had brutally beat and raped her, she showers this child with incredible love and tenderness. I believe if I can get one one hundreth of this into verse it would yield a superb poetic endeavor against racism. PS. Thanks everyone for your good wishes & advice about publishing and foreign travel. I am blessed. Sincerely, D.J. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Tue Jun 10 11:58:20 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:58:20 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters References: <3EE5F56E.87C82637@localnet.com> Message-ID: <012e01c32f69$1dcdbd40$e61c2dd5@anny> ----- Original Message ----- From: Helen Ruggieri To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== Some are real gems. Question: what's the most interesting rejection letter you've ever received? Jeff Newberry Some are real gems. What's the best rejection letter you've ever had? too tempting, easier to remember, goes back to: mirror mirror.... care to all, anny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Tue Jun 10 12:09:42 2003 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:09:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Sport of Kinks Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610090730.00b3c708@incoming.verizon.net> At 09:51 AM 6/10/2003 -0400, DJ wrote: >basketball don't seem to really click with it. > ah, but those 3-point baskets! --barry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.spacks at verizon.net Tue Jun 10 12:39:29 2003 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:39:29 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610091702.00b44f18@incoming.verizon.net> The rejects that get me are those not there. Search around in the envelope -- nope, nada. Sure, I know, the hand slipped in its speeding, but the comment of no-comment, yuck! ("You didn't write, you didn't call, you didn't even say you were sorry!") And then there's the knockout return where your darlings aren't -- discarded in favor of weighty pages describing the wonders of the mag that (insanely!) rejected you. Editors, please note, this practice creates a strong love-bond... even better is steaming off return-stamps to carry someone else's acceptance (am I alone in sometimes NEVER hearing back from certain submissions?) -- stolen stamps for those more worthy! -- barry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Tue Jun 10 13:15:23 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters Message-ID: <20030610171523.3FA2F47C7@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Jun 10 13:20:25 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:20:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry In-Reply-To: <1c7.ae0eb44.2c170dbd@aol.com> Message-ID: on 6/10/03 5:32 AM, Plus65poet at aol.com at Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm attempting to think up ways in which baseball and poetry can be said to > be very similar. Have you ever considered this: Both are played on a field > of > dreams. And the umpire is like the reader in a sense, isn't he? Also > basball has no time limit; neither does poetry. Shakespeare is timeless! I > guess > baseball *is* the best sport to compare with the arts in general. Football > and > basketball don't seem to really click with it. Any further ideas on this > topic would be greatly appreciated. P.S. Of course my own examples just > scratch > the surface of this topic. > P.S.S. Thanks for the kind backchannels! > > Yours truly, > D.J. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > There are a couple of great little poems by Robert Francis that explore this analody. I think the titles are "Catch" (which is as much about poetry as playing catch) and "The Pitcher," which works likewise on two levels. Paul Lake --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From hruggier at localnet.com Tue Jun 10 13:32:05 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:32:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610091702.00b44f18@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <3EE61614.B619C552@localnet.com> There's another trend that's annoying of late - email sends - but you never hear one way or another and on occasion discover your poem on line and you didn't even know. There's something demeaning about that, not to mention the trouble you could get into resending it as unpublished and on and on. h Barry Spacks wrote: > The rejects that get me are those not there. > Search around in the envelope -- nope, > nada. Sure, I know, the hand slipped in its speeding, > but the comment of no-comment, yuck! ("You > didn't write, you didn't call, you didn't even say > you were sorry!") > > And then there's the knockout return where your darlings > aren't -- discarded in favor of weighty pages describing > the wonders of the mag that (insanely!) rejected you. > Editors, please note, this practice creates a strong love-bond... > even better is steaming off return-stamps to carry someone else's > acceptance (am I alone in sometimes NEVER hearing back from > certain submissions?) -- stolen stamps for those more worthy! > > -- barry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier at localnet.com Tue Jun 10 13:37:13 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:37:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters References: <005601c32f66$d56372e0$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <3EE61748.AAB89739@localnet.com> I was once rejected by Vile - my poems weren't vile enough! Whadahya gonna do. TheOldMole wrote: > I kinda liked a small magazine named KNOCKED, whose form rejection was > > KNOCKED says NO!!!! > > Tad > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Deborah Russell" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters > > > I should pull my Alfred E Newman t shirt out and wear it for inspiration. > > Did you frame that, Helen ??? > > > > lol.... > > > > Deborah Russell > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: Helen Ruggieri > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters > > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:12:47 -0400 > > > > > > You know when you can laugh at a rejection letter something marvelous > > has occurred. > > Please stay tuned for the summer issue of "The Rejected Quarterly" > > wherein I have > > an essay classifying rejection letters and admitting that I crave them. > > > > My personal favorite was a from a magazine long defunct who had asked > > for new > > and interesting work. Below the printed paragraph was a handwritten > > note: > > nothing new or interesting here. > > > > Wow. Talk about gratuitous violence. > > > > On the plus side MAD used to send a full page photo of Alfred E. Newman > > giving you the finger. > > > > I sent them something just to get a copy. > > > > Of course, those were the good old days. Now everybody is so > > egregiously polite > > I find it annoying. > > > > Thanks for sending this email to the list members. We appreciate the > > time and the > > postage and all the thought that went into composing the email, but > > unfortunately we are unable to post it for reasons having nothing to do > > with the quality of lack of it in your work. Please, please, forgive us > > and subscribe. > > > > Your friends here at ....... > > > > David Graham wrote: > > > > > No contest: the best rejections in history came from George Hitchcock > > > at the late lamented *Kayak* magazine. I have many in my file, I > > > confess. They were rather Max-Ernstish collages & copyright free > > > engravings, quite hilarious: e.g. a missionary being roasted on a > > > spit, a hapless defendent standing before a judge as dragons loomed in > > > the background, etc. My personal favorite was signed "Edith Twaddle," > > > who I suspect just *might* not have been a real person. After a while > > > I sent to *Kayak* just for the pleasure of being rejected, as I always > > > was. He did publish a letter-to-the-editor of mine once, though, > > > which I took as a major triumph. > > > > > > ==================================================== > > > David Graham > > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > > Home Page: > > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > > Poetry Library: > > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > > ==================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > Some are real gems. Question: what's the most interesting > > > rejection letter you've ever received? > > > > > > > > > Jeff Newberry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet > > > > Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide > > Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Tue Jun 10 14:25:09 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:25:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Message-ID: <20030610182510.3AA8B3AAE@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Helen Ruggieri Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:32:05 -0400 Size: 5072 URL: From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 14:32:18 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:32:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection letters Message-ID: My main site is: http://groups.msn.com/ParallelsStudio Most of my other sites can be accessed from there. I occasionally update links and information for writers but mostly it serves as the home base for my work. - Deborah (oops, another baseball term. lol) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Deborah, Do you have a web site where your work may be found? Bob Poetry Catamaran "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the 'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" Robert R. Cobb AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. http://rrcobb.tripod.com --- "Deborah Russell" wrote: > >In 1989 I practically rid myself of every poem I wrote. Not a good idea. I >send poems out for submission frequently, ninety percent of the time they >are rejected. It is the nature of >the beast. Out of a couple thousand poems, I've had a few 'winners', so >rejections should >not prevent you from writing or submitting. Just keep sweating and bleeding. >:o) >Its good for the soul. > >- Deborah Russell > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >Hi gang, > >Maybe some of you have had this experience. The one time I sent my poems >out >they were rejected. (I won't name the culprit.) There wasn't even an >explanation from the editors. I had decanted my whole being--my very soul-- >into >those 25 poems. I sweated and I bled over them. Every single word had to >be >perfect. And it was!! But they didn't have the courtesy to write even a >100 >word letter of acknowledgement to me. Just a form letter. So I began to >have >the feeling that it was all corrupt. It's about who you know, not what you >know that's the big divider. Life experience and spirituality count for >nothing, >according to the high-ups and the snobs. But I'm going to climb right back >in the saddle and send out even more poems this time. The trick is finding >the >right match between your taste and sombody else's opinion. Or is this the >wrong philosophy? Sometimes I doubt myself because the world of creatiity >is >still so new to me. Then I just want to burn everything I write. > >Sincerely, >D.J. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From antrobin at clipper.net Tue Jun 10 14:51:50 2003 From: antrobin at clipper.net (Anthony Robinson) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:51:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters In-Reply-To: <3EE61748.AAB89739@localnet.com> Message-ID: <000801c32f81$5d6d80d0$873d1c40@Emily> Howard Junker continues to reject my submissions to Zyzzyva, though the first few times I sent, he was very encouraging and told me to send again. Nowadays, he just publishes my (admittedly funny) cover letters on the back of the mag. His rejections generally contain snarky notes as well, or references to other poets..the last one said something like "Say hello to Dorianne (Laux, who lives here in Eugene), and my best to your mother." Tony From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 14:55:35 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:55:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Message-ID: Helen, I know your observations are valid, at the same time, you must realize that some editors are a bit like gallery owners, they want to control 'the product'. The politics are a bit ridiculous really. I knew a gallery owner who had an outrageous contract, 60% of sales, no work could be sold that was exhibited for a period of one year following the exhibit. The artist could not exhibit anywhere within a five hundred mile radius of the gallery during or after their show - also for a period of one year. The gallery was in a small town on the east coast. An artist would have to be blessed by god himself, in order to sell a painting or sculpture. I think this is the same mindset I have come in contact with, in the 'world of poetry'. Too many editors trying to play big shot, and not enough of those who roll up their sleeves and get to work. Many online zines are run by people who will reject any poem posted online, including the poet's personal webpages and those posted on closed workshops, opting for the 'pure and unpublished poem'. Personally, I feel that it provides them with another excuse to cut down on submittals. :o) Wow, I actually said all of that without getting rude. lol.... Deborah Russell ----Original Message Follows---- From: Helen Ruggieri Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:32:05 -0400 There's another trend that's annoying of late - email sends - but you never hear one way or another and on occasion discover your poem on line and you didn't even know. There's something demeaning about that, not to mention the trouble you could get into resending it as unpublished and on and on. h Barry Spacks wrote: > The rejects that get me are those not there. > Search around in the envelope -- nope, > nada. Sure, I know, the hand slipped in its speeding, > but the comment of no-comment, yuck! ("You > didn't write, you didn't call, you didn't even say > you were sorry!") > > And then there's the knockout return where your darlings > aren't -- discarded in favor of weighty pages describing > the wonders of the mag that (insanely!) rejected you. > Editors, please note, this practice creates a strong love-bond... > even better is steaming off return-stamps to carry someone else's > acceptance (am I alone in sometimes NEVER hearing back from > certain submissions?) -- stolen stamps for those more worthy! > > -- barry _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 15:08:56 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:08:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters Message-ID: :o) It's nice to hear a happy ever after, once in a while. - Deborah Russell ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Anthony Robinson" Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: Subject: RE: [New-Poetry] Re: Rejection letters Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:51:50 -0700 Howard Junker continues to reject my submissions to Zyzzyva, though the first few times I sent, he was very encouraging and told me to send again. Nowadays, he just publishes my (admittedly funny) cover letters on the back of the mag. His rejections generally contain snarky notes as well, or references to other poets..the last one said something like "Say hello to Dorianne (Laux, who lives here in Eugene), and my best to your mother." Tony _______________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From chris at chrislott.org Tue Jun 10 15:34:53 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:34:53 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) References: Message-ID: <025c01c32f87$5e6873e0$5b15e589@TECH> > I think this is the same mindset I have come in contact with, in the > 'world of poetry'. Too many editors trying to play big shot, and not > enough of those who roll up their sleeves and get to work. Many > online zines are run by people who will reject any poem posted > online, including the poet's personal webpages and those posted on > closed workshops, opting for the 'pure and unpublished poem'. > > Personally, I feel that it provides them with another excuse to cut > down on submittals. :o) > > Wow, I actually said all of that without getting rude. lol.... It is often a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation when you are the editor, though. More often than not, the work I rejected was simply not within a reasonable realm of being "helped" through a friendly exchange with the author. An editor's job is not that of some creative writing teachers, who feel a mandate to find at least one good thing to say about a work. And then when you *are* encouraging, it can easily come back around and bite you on your plush editorial ass. In more than a few instances, a polite note to the effect of "not quite what we are looking for, but try again" prompted a *deluge* of work, most no better (and a lot much worse) than the initial batch, and they just kept coming in every way possible. Another person whom I tried diligently to work with by making some suggestions got incredibly angry that I dared to question his "authorial credentials." A few weeks later the same person sent me more work-- not as a submission, but asking if I would mind looking them over and providing feedback! And sheer volume is an obvious consideration as well. I too would not accept work that was published elsewhere online or even on the author's own site, though I didn't care if it were workshopped in a closed group or online forum. This wasn't because of a commitment to the "pure and unpublished" but simply a recognition that we were TRYING to do something different than creating a purely personal site. And it cut down on the possibility of having it appear that we were skimming. But we were happy to provide pointers back to an author's own site. Email submissions are tricky. All writers claim to want them, but I know a number of authors who don't trust it, and even a few who consider acceptance of email submissions a hallmark of an amateurish publication. Authors who might pay attention to guidelines will suddenly abandon all pretense of convention and submit scores or even hundreds of pieces in every genre and style possible in every format possible. It's hard to manage on the receiving end, and it seems that authors too find it hard to manage, considering the number of duplicate sumbmissions we would receive, some addressed to other publications, most of which didn't indicate they were simultaneous subs. I have never received a postal mail submission that had one name in the "from" address and another on the manuscript, or had a cover letter that was about different pieces than they had enclosed... but it happens all the time with email. I've received nasty notes of inquiry about getting a response BEFORE receiving the email submission itself! Sometimes without EVER receiving it. I think it is almost too easy to send via email, encouraging a scattershot, record-free approach to shotgunning submissions out there. Response time is something else again. For some reason many authors seemed to think that accepting email submissions, and saving a few days each way in postal mail time meant that we should be able to shave many weeks or months off the selection process. It doesn't work that way. And if a piece is on the edge and/or you have multiple editors, the best work can wait the longest. The mailing time saved is nothing in comparison to the process of selection. There are asshole editors, of course, but even more than in the art gallery business, most aren't in it for the money but because they believe in what they are publishing and are trying to give something back. c From hruggier at localnet.com Tue Jun 10 15:44:01 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:44:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) References: Message-ID: <3EE63501.77519BF@localnet.com> Hey, get rude. It's good for the soul. Deborah Russell wrote: > Helen, > > I know your observations are valid, at the same time, you must realize that > some editors are a bit like gallery owners, they want to control 'the > product'. The politics are a bit ridiculous really. > > I knew a gallery owner who had an outrageous contract, 60% of sales, no work > could be sold that was exhibited for a period of one year following the > exhibit. The artist could not exhibit anywhere within a five hundred mile > radius of the gallery during or after their show - also for a period of one > year. > The gallery was in a small town on the east coast. An artist would have to > be blessed by god himself, in order to sell a painting or sculpture. > > I think this is the same mindset I have come in contact with, in the 'world > of poetry'. Too many editors trying to play big shot, and not enough of > those who roll up their sleeves and get to work. Many online zines are run > by people who will reject any poem posted online, including the poet's > personal webpages and those posted on closed workshops, opting for the 'pure > and unpublished poem'. > > Personally, I feel that it provides them with another excuse to cut down on > submittals. :o) > > Wow, I actually said all of that without getting rude. lol.... > > Deborah Russell > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Helen Ruggieri > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:32:05 -0400 > > There's another trend that's annoying of late - email sends - but you > never hear one > way or another and on occasion discover your poem on line and you didn't > even > know. There's something demeaning about that, not to mention the > trouble you could get into resending it as unpublished and on and on. > > h > Barry Spacks wrote: > > > The rejects that get me are those not there. > > Search around in the envelope -- nope, > > nada. Sure, I know, the hand slipped in its speeding, > > but the comment of no-comment, yuck! ("You > > didn't write, you didn't call, you didn't even say > > you were sorry!") > > > > And then there's the knockout return where your darlings > > aren't -- discarded in favor of weighty pages describing > > the wonders of the mag that (insanely!) rejected you. > > Editors, please note, this practice creates a strong love-bond... > > even better is steaming off return-stamps to carry someone else's > > acceptance (am I alone in sometimes NEVER hearing back from > > certain submissions?) -- stolen stamps for those more worthy! > > > > -- barry > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From sondheim at panix.com Tue Jun 10 17:04:47 2003 From: sondheim at panix.com (Alan Sondheim) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Cybermidrash - please check out - (fwd) Message-ID: (from Joel Weishaus and Alan Sondheim) Cybermidrash is a collaboration between Alan Sondheim and Joel Weishaus. The project begins with correspondence between the two writers that leads to a page of commentaries concordant with midrash, juxtaposed rabbinic remarks annotated over the centuries. http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/temp/title.htm From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 17:39:16 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:39:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Message-ID: I agree with you Chris. I had the some of the same experiences. - Deborah Russell ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I think this is the same mindset I have come in contact with, in the > 'world of poetry'. Too many editors trying to play big shot, and not > enough of those who roll up their sleeves and get to work. Many > online zines are run by people who will reject any poem posted > online, including the poet's personal webpages and those posted on > closed workshops, opting for the 'pure and unpublished poem'. > > Personally, I feel that it provides them with another excuse to cut > down on submittals. :o) > > Wow, I actually said all of that without getting rude. lol.... It is often a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation when you are the editor, though. More often than not, the work I rejected was simply not within a reasonable realm of being "helped" through a friendly exchange with the author. An editor's job is not that of some creative writing teachers, who feel a mandate to find at least one good thing to say about a work. And then when you *are* encouraging, it can easily come back around and bite you on your plush editorial ass. In more than a few instances, a polite note to the effect of "not quite what we are looking for, but try again" prompted a *deluge* of work, most no better (and a lot much worse) than the initial batch, and they just kept coming in every way possible. Another person whom I tried diligently to work with by making some suggestions got incredibly angry that I dared to question his "authorial credentials." A few weeks later the same person sent me more work-- not as a submission, but asking if I would mind looking them over and providing feedback! And sheer volume is an obvious consideration as well. I too would not accept work that was published elsewhere online or even on the author's own site, though I didn't care if it were workshopped in a closed group or online forum. This wasn't because of a commitment to the "pure and unpublished" but simply a recognition that we were TRYING to do something different than creating a purely personal site. And it cut down on the possibility of having it appear that we were skimming. But we were happy to provide pointers back to an author's own site. Email submissions are tricky. All writers claim to want them, but I know a number of authors who don't trust it, and even a few who consider acceptance of email submissions a hallmark of an amateurish publication. Authors who might pay attention to guidelines will suddenly abandon all pretense of convention and submit scores or even hundreds of pieces in every genre and style possible in every format possible. It's hard to manage on the receiving end, and it seems that authors too find it hard to manage, considering the number of duplicate sumbmissions we would receive, some addressed to other publications, most of which didn't indicate they were simultaneous subs. I have never received a postal mail submission that had one name in the "from" address and another on the manuscript, or had a cover letter that was about different pieces than they had enclosed... but it happens all the time with email. I've received nasty notes of inquiry about getting a response BEFORE receiving the email submission itself! Sometimes without EVER receiving it. I think it is almost too easy to send via email, encouraging a scattershot, record-free approach to shotgunning submissions out there. Response time is something else again. For some reason many authors seemed to think that accepting email submissions, and saving a few days each way in postal mail time meant that we should be able to shave many weeks or months off the selection process. It doesn't work that way. And if a piece is on the edge and/or you have multiple editors, the best work can wait the longest. The mailing time saved is nothing in comparison to the process of selection. There are asshole editors, of course, but even more than in the art gallery business, most aren't in it for the money but because they believe in what they are publishing and are trying to give something back. c _______________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From sellwein at hotmail.com Tue Jun 10 18:24:56 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:24:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Message-ID: :o) I'm quite good with rudeness. It's on my resume, just below the space for poetic license and the space where I lie about my age. ;) Deborah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hey, get rude. It's good for the soul. Deborah Russell wrote: > Helen, > > I know your observations are valid, at the same time, you must realize that > some editors are a bit like gallery owners, they want to control 'the > product'. The politics are a bit ridiculous really. > > I knew a gallery owner who had an outrageous contract, 60% of sales, no work > could be sold that was exhibited for a period of one year following the > exhibit. The artist could not exhibit anywhere within a five hundred mile > radius of the gallery during or after their show - also for a period of one > year. > The gallery was in a small town on the east coast. An artist would have to > be blessed by god himself, in order to sell a painting or sculpture. > > I think this is the same mindset I have come in contact with, in the 'world > of poetry'. Too many editors trying to play big shot, and not enough of > those who roll up their sleeves and get to work. Many online zines are run > by people who will reject any poem posted online, including the poet's > personal webpages and those posted on closed workshops, opting for the 'pure > and unpublished poem'. > > Personally, I feel that it provides them with another excuse to cut down on > submittals. :o) > > Wow, I actually said all of that without getting rude. lol.... > > Deborah Russell > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Helen Ruggieri > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:32:05 -0400 > > There's another trend that's annoying of late - email sends - but you > never hear one > way or another and on occasion discover your poem on line and you didn't > even > know. There's something demeaning about that, not to mention the > trouble you could get into resending it as unpublished and on and on. > > h > Barry Spacks wrote: > > > The rejects that get me are those not there. > > Search around in the envelope -- nope, > > nada. Sure, I know, the hand slipped in its speeding, > > but the comment of no-comment, yuck! ("You > > didn't write, you didn't call, you didn't even say > > you were sorry!") > > > > And then there's the knockout return where your darlings > > aren't -- discarded in favor of weighty pages describing > > the wonders of the mag that (insanely!) rejected you. > > Editors, please note, this practice creates a strong love-bond... > > even better is steaming off return-stamps to carry someone else's > > acceptance (am I alone in sometimes NEVER hearing back from > > certain submissions?) -- stolen stamps for those more worthy! > > > > -- barry > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Tue Jun 10 22:42:44 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry Message-ID: <20030611024245.28E9F3DCA@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From Plus65poet at aol.com Wed Jun 11 11:37:47 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:37:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <126.2b5f1cd1.2c18a6cb@aol.com> Hi gang, The librarian at the Public Library told me a couple of days ago that I should have put a copyright signal on each page of my poems to protect them from being plagiarized by others. I didn't do this with the first submission I sent out and now I am very afraid that somebody at that magazine might have xeroxed them without my knowing anything about it and will try to sell them as his/their own. This might be the reason why my poems were rejected, so-called. And all because of a little mistake. I can't stop worrying about it. These 25 poems were the ones I hoped would get me rolling and help me build up a little nest egg so that I could add to my retirement account. But if I sell them now, I might get in trouble if they appear in another magazine under a different name. Then it will be me who will look like the thief. Is it true that if you do not put a copyright signal on each and every page anybody can steal it? Sincerely, D.J. From hruggier at localnet.com Wed Jun 11 11:45:36 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:45:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) References: <20030610182510.3AA8B3AAE@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: <3EE74EA0.195A1C4@localnet.com> That's really weird - I don't understand online operations well enough to know how it was done but it's scary. CobbCoStudioArts wrote: > Helen, > > A few years ago I wrote a poem in an e-mail directed to our AOL poetry group. It was a completed first draft of a poem comparing Newt Gingrich to the Grinch That Stole Christmas. Just as I was poised to click/SEND, the poem etherized before my eyes! Three weeks later my poem appeared in another poetry group with someone else's name on it! I don't know how it was done, but I could not prove it was my poem, having no record to back me up! (Just one of many reasons I hate AOL!) > > Bob > > Poetry Catamaran > > "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" > > Robert R. Cobb > AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. > http://rrcobb.tripod.com > > > --- message from Helen Ruggieri attached: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:32:05 -0400 > From: Helen Ruggieri > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030610091702.00b44f18 at incoming.verizon.net> > > There's another trend that's annoying of late - email sends - but you > never hear one > way or another and on occasion discover your poem on line and you > didn't even > know. There's something demeaning about that, not to mention the > trouble you could get into resending it as unpublished and on and on. > > h > Barry Spacks wrote: > >> The rejects that get me are those not there. >> Search around in the envelope -- nope, >> nada. Sure, I know, the hand slipped in its speeding, >> but the comment of no-comment, yuck! ("You >> didn't write, you didn't call, you didn't even say >> you were sorry!") >> >> And then there's the knockout return where your darlings >> aren't -- discarded in favor of weighty pages describing >> the wonders of the mag that (insanely!) rejected you. >> Editors, please note, this practice creates a strong love-bond... >> even better is steaming off return-stamps to carry someone else's >> acceptance (am I alone in sometimes NEVER hearing back from >> certain submissions?) -- stolen stamps for those more worthy! >> >> -- barry > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Wed Jun 11 12:22:53 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <20030611162253.0FDD949DC@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From Thom424 at aol.com Wed Jun 11 12:33:59 2003 From: Thom424 at aol.com (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:33:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees Message-ID: <1f1.ab2a12a.2c18b3f7@aol.com> A rather lengthy article on Weldon Kees (but worth the reading) from The Chronicle of Higher Education (June 13, 2003). The Man Who Was Not There By SCOTT McLEMEE Weldon Kees was a writer's writer. He has a devoted following among poets in particular, but little reputation with the larger public. His virtues are not difficult to recognize. Admirers are taken, in part, by his versatility, a quality that is immediately apparent from even a glance at the library catalog: an outpouring of poetry, fiction, essays, music, artwork, and films that looks all the more impressive given that his career lasted just two decades. At least, it did as far as anyone knows. The catalog identifies the author as "Kees, Weldon. 1914-1955?" For in July of that presumably final year, his car was found parked near the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. There was no suicide note, nor was his body ever found. As James Reidel notes in Vanished Act: The Life and Art of Weldon Kees (published this month by the University of Nebraska Press), friends and admirers soon began to speculate that the author might have staged his own death, then fled to start life over in some new place. For Mr. Reidel, an independent scholar living in Cin-cinnati, the question mark is a mere formality. He has found abundant evidence that Kees had been contemplating suicide for some while. Mr. Reidel, comparing himself to the gumshoes in the B-movie thrillers the poet loved, says he pursued his study of Kees "far longer than a normal person would." His fascination began with the copy of the Collected Poems that he received as a college-graduation present in 1979. "I thought there would be [a biography] already done, as there had been with other writers of his generation, like Robert Lowell." At the time, though, the secondary literature on Kees consisted of no more than a handful of essays. Mr. Reidel's work is the first full-scale biography of the author. The book appears at a propitious moment. One of Kees's most ardent enthusiasts, Dana Gioia, was recently named chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts. Mr. Gioia says a photograph of Kees, as well as one of his collages, will be displayed in his office at the NEA once he can get them transported to Washington from his home in California. "Almost half a century has gone by since he disappeared," Mr. Gioia says, "but today Kees is one of the two or three most influential American poets from the postwar period." A debatable point, certainly -- but one that the chairman repeats, for emphasis. Like Mr. Reidel's perseverance, Mr. Gioia's strong claims for Kees reflect the powerful hold that his life and work still exert. It is a force that owes nothing to the English department. "He's never had an important academic critic championing his work," Mr. Gioia says. On the Move The portrait that emerges from Mr. Reidel's biography, and from Kees's own writings, is that of a man never quite settled, his creative versatility not altogether distinct from sheer restlessness. He had a knack for disappearing from a scene just before it was "discovered" -- staying a step ahead of an acclaim that might have overwhelmed him. Born to a middle-class family in Lincoln, Neb., he began publishing fiction, poetry, and reviews in national literary journals while a student at the University of Nebraska. Kees's short fiction, portraying dark scenes from Midwestern lives of quiet desperation, were narrated in an understated style as flat as the landscape he portrayed. They now read very much like the work Raymond Carver published in the 1970s. At the time, they were regularly selected for anthologies of the year's best fiction -- until 1942, when Kees moved to New York and abruptly abandoned fiction. He published two volumes of poetry and began painting and making collages. To support himself, he reviewed books for Time magazine and wrote the voice-overs for newsreels. By the end of the decade, the circle of artists with whom he exhibited became known as the New York School, also called the Abstract Expressionists. A famous group portrait of artists from his circle appeared in Life magazine. But Kees didn't show up for the photo shoot. Just as New York was being proclaimed the new world capital of the arts, he moved to San Francisco. While continuing to paint and to write poetry, he began to compose jazz songs. He also started a small theatrical troupe, for which he wrote a play. He started taking photographs; many of them appeared in a social-science monograph that he wrote with a Swiss scholar whose English wasn't quite up to it. And he made short films on animal and human behavior in collaboration with Gregory Bateson, the anthropologist later known for his theory of the "double bind" -- a kind of self-contradictory pattern in human communication, which Bateson believed induced schizophrenia. As Mr. Reidel shows, the question of mental illness was coming ever closer to home for Kees. His wife, long an alcoholic, began showing unmistakable signs of paranoid schizophrenia; they separated in 1954. Kees himself was prone to what he called "a state of vague metaphysical depression." His spirits were not lifted when, the same year, he passed his 40th birthday, which raised the question -- perhaps especially troubling for the overachiever -- of just what he had accomplished. "The lacerating effects of middle age are dreadful," he wrote in a letter. "The trick of repeating, 'It can't get any worse,' is certainly no good, when all the evidence points to quite the opposite." By Kees's last days in San Francisco, says Mr. Reidel, he "was working on a film showing parallels between the Golden Gate Bridge and the Brooklyn Bridge." It was a project with overtones from one of his favorite poets, Hart Crane, who had written a kind of lyrical epic about the Brooklyn structure before killing himself in 1932. Kees started doing research for a book about famous suicides. And he became fascinated by Dostoevsky's novel The Possessed, in which the demented revolutionary Kirolov presents philosophical arguments for self-murder as the only human action embodying absolute freedom. In July 1955, after a few drinks, Kees mentioned to a friend that he had been contemplating a jump from the Golden Gate Bridge. He had gotten as far as the rail, he said, but couldn't bring himself to put his foot over the edge. He also mentioned the idea of relocating once more -- this time, to Mexico. A few days later, the California Highway Patrol found his car in a parking lot near the bridge, with the keys still in the ignition. Living the Afterlife Word of Kees's disappearance spread so slowly through the network of his friends and admirers that, as Mr. Reidel writes, it "gave the strange story the unreality and remoteness more often associated with a lost expedition or a mountain climber who had not returned." Although Kees had been preoccupied with Hart Crane, his friends began to wonder if a more appropriate reference might have been to the satirist Ambrose Bierce, who disappeared in Mexico the very year Kees was born. (Indeed, his library record reads "Bierce, Ambrose. 1842-1914?") In 1960, Donald Justice, then a professor of English at the University of Iowa, edited The Collected Poems of Weldon Kees (now available from Nebraska). "He speaks to us in a voice or, rather, in a particular tone of voice which we have not heard before," wrote Mr. Justice in the introduction. "The bitterness may be traced to a profound hatred for a botched civilization." The stage was set for Kees to emerge as an almost mythic figure: the tormented genius, lost in America, driven to extremes, who vanished without a trace. As Mr. Gioia points out in an essay titled "The Cult of Weldon Kees," other poets began writing verse about him and reprinting his work in anthologies they edited. "The cult of Kees grew out of the juxtaposition of life and art, the stark and searing poetry viewed against the doomed and nihilistic life that produced it." Mr. Gioia lists dozens of poets who have expressed admiration for Kees or written homages to him, including Hayden Carruth, David Lehmann, Mark Strand, and David Wojahn. Some have speculated that Kees's poems about an alter ego he called Robinson may have been an influence on the Dream Songs of John Berryman. Meanwhile, literary scholars ignored Kees altogether -- at least until the mid-1980s, when two volumes of analysis appeared, without great fanfare. "Academic critics go through generations," says Mr. Gioia. "Deconstruction appears, then it's dead, and something else takes its place. But it's the poets who really determine who will last." Like it or not, the Kees cultists may have to share their totem with scholars who will treat him as part of American cultural history. "I'm trying to take Kees out of the box marked 'The Poet Who Disappeared,'" says Daniel A. Seidell, curator of the Sheldon Memorial Art Gallery and Sculpture Garden, at the University of Nebraska at Lincoln. In 1998, he organized an exhibition of Kees's graphic art, which was shown at the Sheldon and at the University of Iowa Museum of Art. It was in the creative-writing program at Iowa, Mr. Seidell notes, that the posthumous rediscovery and mythologization of Kees began. "I'd like to see Kees's films being dealt with by film scholars and critics, his painting dealt with by curators and art historians, his poetry dealt with, not by friends and by people who see him as their own poetic influence, but by people who can step back and look at the larger picture," says Mr. Seidell. As a step in that direction, he has edited a volume of critical essays, Weldon Kees and the Arts at Midcentury, forthcoming from Nebraska in January. Looking at Kees in historical context, the curator says, involves challenging some familiar interpretations of the period in which he worked. Accounts of the New York avant garde circa 1950 tend to take the ascendancy of Abstract Expressionism for granted. "History gets interpreted retroactively as triumphalist," says Mr. Seidell. "But many of the artists from Kees's circle never thought they would sell anything. One of the things I noticed in his art criticism was that Kees really appreciated those artists who were willing to develop slowly, who were able to resist the way the galleries wanted them to paint. He always picked out exhibitions that showed artists struggling with their aesthetic language in the face of all the temptations to crank out work for a certain audience." One challenge to scholars now, Mr. Seidell says, is finding a critical vocabulary that can deal with Kees's "polyartistry" -- his multimedia creativity. Another is dealing with the resistance that comes from the more rapturous admirers. "There is a feeling among enthusiasts that once you institutionalize Kees by having critics and professionals write about him, the spirit is gone. I think there's a real interest in keeping the mystery." It is a matter that concerns Mr. Reidel, too, whose biography may be the consummate work of Keesian cultism. "In a way, I am -- I don't want to say spoiling, but certainly altering the way people discover Kees. There's a more established interest in him now. But I think there will always be a fascination about Kees. There are still a lot of question marks." FOR MY DAUGHTER Looking into my daughter's eyes I read Beneath the innocence of morning flesh Concealed, hintings of death she does not heed. Coldest of winds have blown this hair, and mesh Of seaweed snarled these miniatures of hands; The night's slow poison, tolerant and bland, Has moved her blood. Parched years that I have seen That may be hers appear: foul, lingering Death in certain war, the slim legs green. Or, fed on hate, she relishes the sting Of others' agony; perhaps the cruel Bride of a syphilitic or a fool. These speculations sour in the sun. I have no daughter. I desire none. Reprinted from The Collected Poems of Weldon Kees, edited by Donald Justice, by permission of the University of Nebraska Press. --> WHERE'S WELDON? Writings by Kees The Collected Poems of Weldon Kees, edited by Donald Justice (University of Nebraska Press, revised ed. 1975) Fall Quarter: A Novel, edited by James Reidel (Story Line Press, 1990) Reviews and Essays, 1936-55, edited by James Reidel (University of Michigan Press, 1988) Selected Short Stories of Weldon Kees, edited by Dana Gioia (Nebraska, 2002) Weldon Kees and the Midcentury Generation: Letters, 1935-1955, edited with a commentary by Robert E. Knoll (Nebraska, 1986) Jurgen Ruesch and Weldon Kees, Nonverbal Communication: Notes on the Visual Perception of Human Relations (University of California Press, 1956) Books About Kees Vanished Act: The Life and Art of Weldon Kees, by James Reidel (Nebraska, 2003) Weldon Kees, by William T. Ross (Twayne Publishers, 1985) Weldon Kees: A Critical Introduction, edited by Jim Elledge (The Scarecrow Press, 1985) Weldon Kees and the Arts at Midcentury, edited by Daniel A. Seidell (Nebraska, 2004) _________________________________________________________________ From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Wed Jun 11 12:34:33 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Message-ID: <20030611163433.712E33D74@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Helen Ruggieri Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:45:36 -0400 Size: 7845 URL: From mandolin at mac.com Wed Jun 11 12:55:45 2003 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:55:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <2400197.1055350545504.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com> D.J., Many editors view the copyright symbol as the mark of an amateur, and it makes them less likely to read your work with sympathetically. In any case, there's not enough money in poetry to make it worth stealing. In the the US, you've got copyright just by writing something down. You can register the copyright, which gives you the right to sue for punitive as well as actual damages in the event someone else uses your work. Neither will be worth much. Most markets only want 3-5 poems in a submission--if you sent 25 they were likely put in the SASE without being read. Get a copy (from the library, if you can) of the 2003 Poet's Market. 2004 may be out. Read poetry magazines. Read their submission standards, either online or in the magazines themselves. Read a few issues of Poet and Writer. Good luck, Michael From chryss at silcom.com Wed Jun 11 12:57:59 2003 From: chryss at silcom.com (Chryss Yost) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:57:59 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection In-Reply-To: <2400197.1055350545504.JavaMail.mandolin@mac.com> Message-ID: I second this. Well said, Michael. C. In the message on 6/11/03 9:55 AM, Michael Snider wrote: > D.J., > > > Many editors view the copyright symbol as the mark of an amateur, and it makes > them less likely to read your work with sympathetically. In any case, there's > not enough money in poetry to make it worth stealing. In the the US, you've > got copyright just by writing something down. You can register the copyright, > which gives you the right to sue for punitive as well as actual damages in the > event someone else uses your work. Neither will be worth much. > > Most markets only want 3-5 poems in a submission--if you sent 25 they were > likely put in the SASE without being read. Get a copy (from the library, if > you can) of the 2003 Poet's Market. 2004 may be out. Read poetry magazines. > Read their submission standards, either online or in the magazines themselves. > Read a few issues of Poet and Writer. > > Good luck, > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From simon at ipfw.edu Wed Jun 11 13:43:03 2003 From: simon at ipfw.edu (Beth Simon) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:43:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: Doesn't it strike anyone else that this is made up? Nest egg? Plagerize the 25 poems into which soul was poured? b --- Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: >Hi gang, > >The librarian at the Public Library told me a couple of days ago that I >should have put a copyright signal on each page of my poems to protect them from >being plagiarized by others. I didn't do this with the first submission I sent >out and now I am very afraid that somebody at that magazine might have xeroxed >them without my knowing anything about it and will try to sell them as >his/their own. This might be the reason why my poems were rejected, so-called. And >all because of a little mistake. I can't stop worrying about it. These 25 >poems were the ones I hoped would get me rolling and help me build up a little >nest egg so that I could add to my retirement account. But if I sell them >now, I might get in trouble if they appear in another magazine under a different >name. Then it will be me who will look like the thief. Is it true that if >you do not put a copyright signal on each and every page anybody can steal it? > >Sincerely, D.J. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry beth lee simon, ph.d. associate professor, linguistics and english indiana university purdue university fort wayne, in 46805-1499 voice 260 481 6761; fax 260 481 6985 email simon at ipfw.edu From antrobin at clipper.net Wed Jun 11 13:45:28 2003 From: antrobin at clipper.net (Anthony Robinson) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:45:28 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006901c33041$3fd929f0$873d1c40@Emily> Yeah, the whole series of posts seems a little fishy to me. Anybody remember Billie? Tony -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Beth Simon Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 10:43 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Doesn't it strike anyone else that this is made up? Nest egg? Plagerize the 25 poems into which soul was poured? b --- Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: >Hi gang, > >The librarian at the Public Library told me a couple of days ago that I >should have put a copyright signal on each page of my poems to protect them from >being plagiarized by others. I didn't do this with the first submission I sent >out and now I am very afraid that somebody at that magazine might have xeroxed >them without my knowing anything about it and will try to sell them as >his/their own. This might be the reason why my poems were rejected, so-called. And >all because of a little mistake. I can't stop worrying about it. These 25 >poems were the ones I hoped would get me rolling and help me build up a little >nest egg so that I could add to my retirement account. But if I sell them >now, I might get in trouble if they appear in another magazine under a different >name. Then it will be me who will look like the thief. Is it true that if >you do not put a copyright signal on each and every page anybody can steal it? > >Sincerely, D.J. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry beth lee simon, ph.d. associate professor, linguistics and english indiana university purdue university fort wayne, in 46805-1499 voice 260 481 6761; fax 260 481 6985 email simon at ipfw.edu _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards at prodigy.net Wed Jun 11 13:50:00 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:50:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection References: Message-ID: <001a01c33041$e136fa70$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Billie? Nah...that's too much to ask for. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Simon" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection > Doesn't it strike anyone else that this is made up? Nest egg? Plagerize > the 25 poems into which soul was poured? > > b > > --- Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > >Hi gang, > > > >The librarian at the Public Library told me a couple of days ago that I > > >should have put a copyright signal on each page of my poems to protect > them from > >being plagiarized by others. I didn't do this with the first > submission I sent > >out and now I am very afraid that somebody at that magazine might have > xeroxed > >them without my knowing anything about it and will try to sell them as > >his/their own. This might be the reason why my poems were rejected, > so-called. And > >all because of a little mistake. I can't stop worrying about it. > These 25 > >poems were the ones I hoped would get me rolling and help me build up a > little > >nest egg so that I could add to my retirement account. But if I sell > them > >now, I might get in trouble if they appear in another magazine under a > different > >name. Then it will be me who will look like the thief. Is it true > that if > >you do not put a copyright signal on each and every page anybody can > steal it? > > > >Sincerely, D.J. > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > beth lee simon, ph.d. > associate professor, linguistics and english > indiana university purdue university > fort wayne, in 46805-1499 > voice 260 481 6761; fax 260 481 6985 > email simon at ipfw.edu > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Plus65poet at aol.com Wed Jun 11 14:17:41 2003 From: Plus65poet at aol.com (Plus65poet at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:17:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Goodbye Message-ID: <42.396795fe.2c18cc45@aol.com> Dear List, I see that my ignorance about poetry mechanics has made me a laughinstock to the super-educated. Just remember that not everybody is as lucky as you are. Goodbye and goodluck to you. I will burn up my poems, so be happy, no one will ever read the true stories I have been collecting accept for my kids. Even the thought of my wanting to write for the public embarasses me now. D.J. From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Wed Jun 11 14:19:14 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <20030611181914.E0E5E470A@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Wed Jun 11 15:18:22 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:18:22 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection References: Message-ID: <3EE7807E.73A3D74A@earthlink.net> I suspected it from the git-go. Naivete a bit over the top, common publication concerns pushed over the top etc. Billie, you know, has many faces (and e-mail addresses). - Jim Beth Simon wrote: > > Doesn't it strike anyone else that this is made up? Nest egg? Plagerize > the 25 poems into which soul was poured? > > b > > --- Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > >Hi gang, > > > >The librarian at the Public Library told me a couple of days ago that I > > >should have put a copyright signal on each page of my poems to protect > them from > >being plagiarized by others. I didn't do this with the first > submission I sent > >out and now I am very afraid that somebody at that magazine might have > xeroxed > >them without my knowing anything about it and will try to sell them as > >his/their own. This might be the reason why my poems were rejected, > so-called. And > >all because of a little mistake. I can't stop worrying about it. > These 25 > >poems were the ones I hoped would get me rolling and help me build up a > little > >nest egg so that I could add to my retirement account. But if I sell > them > >now, I might get in trouble if they appear in another magazine under a > different > >name. Then it will be me who will look like the thief. Is it true > that if > >you do not put a copyright signal on each and every page anybody can > steal it? > > > >Sincerely, D.J. > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > beth lee simon, ph.d. > associate professor, linguistics and english > indiana university purdue university > fort wayne, in 46805-1499 > voice 260 481 6761; fax 260 481 6985 > email simon at ipfw.edu > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Wed Jun 11 15:19:17 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:19:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Goodbye References: <42.396795fe.2c18cc45@aol.com> Message-ID: <3EE780B5.556D1FA7@earthlink.net> Goodbye, D.J.! Good luck in your next field of endeavor. Please say hello to Billie. - Jim Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > > Dear List, > > I see that my ignorance about poetry mechanics has made me a laughinstock to > the super-educated. Just remember that not everybody is as lucky as you are. > Goodbye and goodluck to you. I will burn up my poems, so be happy, no one > will ever read the true stories I have been collecting accept for my kids. Even > the thought of my wanting to write for the public embarasses me now. > > D.J. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From sellwein at hotmail.com Wed Jun 11 15:38:29 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:38:29 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: I should be so lucky someone would claim my work as their own. Deborah D.J., I hope that you did not send your only copies of your poems. As long as you have originals, verified by at least one witness, you are protected. The copyright symbol usually works, but not always. Bob Poetry Catamaran "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" Robert R. Cobb AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. http://rrcobb.tripod.com --- Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: >Hi gang, > >The librarian at the Public Library told me a couple of days ago that I >should have put a copyright signal on each page of my poems to protect them from >being plagiarized by others. I didn't do this with the first submission I sent >out and now I am very afraid that somebody at that magazine might have xeroxed >them without my knowing anything about it and will try to sell them as >his/their own. This might be the reason why my poems were rejected, so-called. And >all because of a little mistake. I can't stop worrying about it. These 25 >poems were the ones I hoped would get me rolling and help me build up a little >nest egg so that I could add to my retirement account. But if I sell them >now, I might get in trouble if they appear in another magazine under a different >name. Then it will be me who will look like the thief. Is it true that if >you do not put a copyright signal on each and every page anybody can steal it? > >Sincerely, D.J. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From luap at mallasch.com Wed Jun 11 15:39:43 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:39:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Goodbye In-Reply-To: <3EE780B5.556D1FA7@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hook line and sinker... -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, James Cervantes wrote: > Goodbye, D.J.! Good luck in your next field of endeavor. Please say > hello to Billie. > > - Jim > > Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > > > > Dear List, > > > > I see that my ignorance about poetry mechanics has made me a laughinstock to > > the super-educated. Just remember that not everybody is as lucky as you are. > > Goodbye and goodluck to you. I will burn up my poems, so be happy, no one > > will ever read the true stories I have been collecting accept for my kids. Even > > the thought of my wanting to write for the public embarasses me now. > > > > D.J. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JackTar at aol.com Wed Jun 11 15:48:52 2003 From: JackTar at aol.com (JackTar at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:48:52 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <1d5.b67e144.2c18e1a4@aol.com> In a message dated 6/11/2003 3:19:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jvcervantes at earthlink.net writes: > I suspected it from the git-go. Naivete a bit over the top, common > publication concerns pushed over the top etc. Billie, you know, has > many faces (and e-mail addresses). > > - Jim > > Beth Simon wrote: > > > >Doesn't it strike anyone else that this is made up? Nest egg? Plagerize > >the 25 poems into which soul was poured? > > > >b > Well; either way, the thread has brought out some interesting points I was unaware of about submitting ones poetry. Of course, DJ could submit to Poetry.com and receive offers to publish his poetry; along with others poetry and even be invited to AWARDS ceremonies - for a fee - citing ones outstanding contribution to poetry. Duncan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jun 11 15:52:48 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:52:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection References: Message-ID: <014b01c33053$09e49520$a3defea9@j1c1k6> > Doesn't it strike anyone else that this is made up? Nest egg? Plagerize > the 25 poems into which soul was poured? > > b Well, it's true. I should know, because I stole them. I sold 24 of them to Dana Gioia for 7 million. The other one I sold to the New Yorker for only a few hundred, because I felt it would further my career. --Bob G. From sellwein at hotmail.com Wed Jun 11 16:03:20 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:03:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Submitting online.... Helen/Bob Message-ID: I write my stuff out long hand, then compose in word or directly in my email. When I submit, I blind copy myself and post again to my website so the date is posted in all three submittals. I think that is as 'safe as it gets' for online submittals. I do this as well for any work that I submit for c&c on private boards. With any poetry board, once you submit, go to preview and select all and print, that validates your submission to online zines. If you build a collection on these sites, then frequently update your print outs to include all material you have submitted. Keep records of all your submittals and 'rejections' in separate folders.Once those seem to be taking up too much 'space', move them to word and print them out. Its good to use lots of ink and paper, that way you know you are a writer. LoL, just kidding - but it does make sense to keep records. Deborah Russell.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----Original Message Follows---- From: CobbCoStudioArts Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:34:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Helen, If you think that's scarey, one morning we awoke to discover that over 150 poems had vanished from our AOL Poetry Board overnight without explanation, nor apology. Just one more of many reasons I am no longer AOL! Bob Poetry Catamaran "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" Robert R. Cobb AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. http://rrcobb.tripod.com --- message from Helen Ruggieri attached: << message3.txt >> _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From sellwein at hotmail.com Wed Jun 11 16:09:26 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:09:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection - Poetry.com and LA Times... Message-ID: Roy Rivenberg, LA Times contacted me concerning my articles on poetry scams as he was assigned the task of writing an article on this subject. Unfortunately, when the article came out it seemed a bit too glossy for my taste. He actually attended one of their events and came at the subject from quite a different angle - that of the 'joy that it brings to so many people'. Uffffff, I was a bit pissed actually to read how people use community funds and resources to attend these 'festivities' - its a nasty little food chain.... Deborah Russell http://groups.msn.com/ParallelsStudio ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----Original Message Follows---- From: JackTar at aol.com Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:48:52 EDT MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by mc4-f11.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:50:13 -0700 Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5BJj6ST019861;Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:45:06 -0400 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37])by wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5BJiFST019847for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:44:15 -0400 Received: from JackTar at aol.comby imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id j.1d5.b67e144 (30950) for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:48:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRigLaEiTQQBlDPU44G8LMD9u Message-ID: <1d5.b67e144.2c18e1a4 at aol.com> X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6011 Sender: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu Errors-To: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu X-BeenThere: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Return-Path: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2003 19:50:15.0061 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD5E8450:01C33052] In a message dated 6/11/2003 3:19:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jvcervantes at earthlink.net writes: > I suspected it from the git-go. Naivete a bit over the top, common > publication concerns pushed over the top etc. Billie, you know, has > many faces (and e-mail addresses). > > - Jim > > Beth Simon wrote: > > > >Doesn't it strike anyone else that this is made up? Nest egg? Plagerize > >the 25 poems into which soul was poured? > > > >b > Well; either way, the thread has brought out some interesting points I was unaware of about submitting ones poetry. Of course, DJ could submit to Poetry.com and receive offers to publish his poetry; along with others poetry and even be invited to AWARDS ceremonies - for a fee - citing ones outstanding contribution to poetry. Duncan _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From luap at mallasch.com Wed Jun 11 16:26:38 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:26:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) Submitting online.... Helen/Bob In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hope this doesn't sound too spammy, but... If you post your poem on MUG, if gets timestamped, which would be another indicator that it is yours. All rights are reserved by the poets. Might cause probs with 'only poems not yet published' criteria... I have a graf about copyright on the site. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, Deborah Russell wrote: > I write my stuff out long hand, then compose in word or directly in my > email. When I submit, I blind copy myself and post again to my website so > the date is posted in all three submittals. I think that is as 'safe as it > gets' for online submittals. > I do this as well for any work that I submit for c&c on private boards. With > any poetry board, once you submit, go to preview and select all and print, > that validates your submission to online zines. If you build a collection on > these sites, then frequently update your print outs to include all material > you have submitted. Keep records of all your submittals and 'rejections' in > separate folders.Once those seem to be taking up too much 'space', move them > to word and print them out. Its good to use lots of ink and paper, that way > you know you are a writer. LoL, just kidding - but it does make sense to > keep records. > > > Deborah Russell.... > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: CobbCoStudioArts > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Rejection Slips (Not) > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:34:33 -0700 (PDT) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Helen, > > If you think that's scarey, one morning we awoke to discover that over 150 > poems had vanished from our AOL Poetry Board overnight without explanation, > nor apology. Just one more of many reasons I am no longer AOL! > > Bob > > Poetry Catamaran > > "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the'known > mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" > > Robert R. Cobb > AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. > http://rrcobb.tripod.com > > > --- message from Helen Ruggieri attached: > << message3.txt >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com Tue Jun 10 12:46:33 2003 From: FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com (FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:46:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] f r e q u e n c y Message-ID: <12e.2bf0ab8b.2c176569@aol.com> FREQUENCY MAGAZINE FUNDRAISER EVENT June 27th 7pm at Molly's Bookstore & Cafe (215-923-3367) located in the heart of Philadelphia's Italian Market COME HEAR A ROUND-ROBIN WITH: Tom Devaney Chris McCreary Ethel Rackin Molly Russakoff Frank Sherlock Frequency Magazine is an audio journal to be published on CD, with readings by some of the best contemporary poets. the debut issue is dedicated to the late Douglas Oliver, and will feature a recording of the poet reading a set of his poems. From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Wed Jun 11 18:20:10 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <20030611222011.71AD6472A@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Wed Jun 11 18:24:27 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <20030611222429.8CFA011F04@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: JackTar at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:48:52 EDT Size: 4179 URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Wed Jun 11 18:27:20 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <20030611222721.283AB3D8D@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jun 11 19:27:31 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:27:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection References: <20030611222721.283AB3D8D@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: <006c01c33071$08761560$9051fea9@j1c1k6> > Bob, > > Can I borrow a million? > > Bob It's in the mail. --Bob G. From dicka at optonline.net Wed Jun 11 21:01:19 2003 From: dicka at optonline.net (Richard Attanasio) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:01:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #1556 - 13 msgs In-Reply-To: <200306112006.h5BK62ST020052@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <60C8E839-9C71-11D7-BAF7-000393DE187A@optonline.net> Sure - me too - and I backchanneled a few guys (you know who you are) yesterday. Call me an old f.rt, but I find this sort of thing just plain bad manners - assuming that the perpetrator is older than 13. Richard On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 04:06 PM, new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > > Doesn't it strike anyone else that this is made up? Nest egg? Plagerize > the 25 poems into which soul was poured? > > b From sellwein at hotmail.com Wed Jun 11 21:58:42 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:58:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: I'd like to apply for a 0% interest loan for an extended period in the amount of 245,000.00 please. Could you make that cash, small bills? Un-Bob sponge pants > Bob, > > Can I borrow a million? > > Bob It's in the mail. --Bob G. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From sellwein at hotmail.com Wed Jun 11 22:02:17 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:02:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Goodbye Message-ID: I can't imagine wanting to write for the public, but I suppose that might blow someone's skirt up. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hook line and sinker... -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Wed, 11 Jun 2003, James Cervantes wrote: > Goodbye, D.J.! Good luck in your next field of endeavor. Please say > hello to Billie. > > - Jim > > Plus65poet at aol.com wrote: > > > > Dear List, > > > > I see that my ignorance about poetry mechanics has made me a laughinstock to > > the super-educated. Just remember that not everybody is as lucky as you are. > > Goodbye and goodluck to you. I will burn up my poems, so be happy, no one > > will ever read the true stories I have been collecting accept for my kids. Even > > the thought of my wanting to write for the public embarasses me now. > > > > D.J. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From FanwoodJEL at aol.com Wed Jun 11 23:30:47 2003 From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:30:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <105.3064e20c.2c194de7@aol.com> In a message dated 6/11/2003 9:59:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sellwein at hotmail.com writes: > I'd like to apply for a 0% interest loan for an extended period in the > amount of 245,000.00 please. Could you make that cash, small bills? > > Un-Bob sponge pants > Small bills? Around these parts we call them waders. Each comes with its own little common law copyright right upside the beak, so nobody's gonna steal them, pass 'em off for what they ain't. Jeffrey L -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luap at mallasch.com Thu Jun 12 00:44:55 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:44:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Pomes [SIC] by others: D.J. Billie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: under the bridge here i sit, perplexed by wit, bored beyond pretend, out of shape, hardly typical, computer screen glows as the words flow as i try to reach out and stop the sense with non- sense. my sixth sense flares up. it's time to go re- member -ing james joyce and 'that one line' now lost to time spliced forgotten the trolls of ancient lore now a -bide (their time) within the construct of ones and 0s we use to talk back and forth years and years after that guten- berg guy had the same idea. Under a bridge, waiting for the next weary traveller, the next 'after a long day' poet- ry professor checking in to see what the others say and 'do' - virtually non-existent. He exits stage left. ------------------ -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 12 07:07:43 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:07:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #1556 - 13 msgs References: <60C8E839-9C71-11D7-BAF7-000393DE187A@optonline.net> Message-ID: <002d01c330d2$d9c5f340$26c0fea9@j1c1k6> I have to admit that I'm still not sure this guy wasn't for real. There ARE people like him in the real worldIf he was, he should be mocked for not knowing more of the field he wanted to get into, and, if he wants to be an artist of any kind, he should be able to take a lot more abuse than any of us gave him. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Attanasio" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:01 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #1556 - 13 msgs > Sure - me too - and I backchanneled a few guys (you know who you are) > yesterday. > > Call me an old f.rt, but I find this sort of thing just plain bad > manners - assuming that the perpetrator is older than 13. > > Richard > On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 04:06 PM, > new-poetry-request at wiz.cath.vt.edu wrote: > > > > > Doesn't it strike anyone else that this is made up? Nest egg? Plagerize > > the 25 poems into which soul was poured? > > > > b > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 12 07:09:00 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 07:09:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection References: Message-ID: <003401c330d3$07bd8740$26c0fea9@j1c1k6> > I'd like to apply for a 0% interest loan for an extended period in the > amount of 245,000.00 please. Could you make that cash, small bills? > > Un-Bob sponge pants No problem. But if this kind of thing keeps up, I may have to steal some more poems, and I don't like doing that. --Bob G. From sellwein at hotmail.com Thu Jun 12 09:45:21 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:45:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: > I'd like to apply for a 0% interest loan for an extended period in the > amount of 245,000.00 please. Could you make that cash, small bills? > > Un-Bob sponge pants No problem. But if this kind of thing keeps up, I may have to steal some more poems, and I don't like doing that. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ lol... Some how I hear Henny Youngman - Take my poems.....please. Deborah ~~~~~~~~~~~ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From sellwein at hotmail.com Thu Jun 12 09:52:57 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:52:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection - Jeffery Message-ID: > I'd like to apply for a 0% interest loan for an extended period in the > amount of 245,000.00 please. Could you make that cash, small bills? > > Un-Bob sponge pants > Small bills? Around these parts we call them waders. Each comes with its own little common law copyright right upside the beak, so nobody's gonna steal them, pass 'em off for what they ain't. Jeffrey L ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yeah... I think we have that common law too. Of course, a lot of them are - you probably should be careful about where you walk unless you are wearing those waders. For anyone in the NYC - Woodstock area - I'll be reading @ the Colony Cafe on June 16th - 6:30 pm.... Pop in, I'll sell you a couple of books or buy you a coffee. I'll be the one who looks like Howard Stern's sister - only half as rude. Lol Deborah Russell ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 12 10:23:38 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:23:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection References: Message-ID: <009801c330ee$37f727c0$26c0fea9@j1c1k6> > > I'd like to apply for a 0% interest loan for an extended period in the > > amount of 245,000.00 please. Could you make that cash, small bills? > > > > Un-Bob sponge pants > > No problem. But if this kind of thing keeps up, I may have to steal some > more poems, and I don't like doing that. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > > lol... Some how I hear Henny Youngman - Take my poems.....please. > > Deborah > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ Only if you promise to steal mine. --Bob G. From sellwein at hotmail.com Thu Jun 12 10:36:32 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:36:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry - Paul Message-ID: > Hi all, > > I'm attempting to think up ways in which baseball and poetry can be said to > be very similar. Have you ever considered this: Both are played on a field > of > dreams. And the umpire is like the reader in a sense, isn't he? Also > basball has no time limit; neither does poetry. Shakespeare is timeless! I > guess > baseball *is* the best sport to compare with the arts in general. Football > and > basketball don't seem to really click with it. Any further ideas on this > topic would be greatly appreciated. P.S. Of course my own examples just > scratch > the surface of this topic. > P.S.S. Thanks for the kind backchannels! > > Yours truly, > D.J. > _______________________________________________ There are a couple of great little poems by Robert Francis that explore this analody. I think the titles are "Catch" (which is as much about poetry as playing catch) and "The Pitcher," which works likewise on two levels. Paul Lake ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Paul, Thanks for the reference. Shiki used baseball themes in haiku - The game is poetry, especially if you have front center or outside right center seats and of course, if your team wins its a sonnet. little league - my grandson asks which way do i run? deborah russell http://worldhaikureview.org http://groups.msn.com/ParallelsStudio ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From tadrichards at prodigy.net Thu Jun 12 10:42:05 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:42:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection - Jeffery References: Message-ID: <002201c330f0$cb67fd20$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Deborah -- I'll try to be there - email and remind me. Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Russell" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection - Jeffery > > > > I'd like to apply for a 0% interest loan for an extended period in the > > amount of 245,000.00 please. Could you make that cash, small bills? > > > > Un-Bob sponge pants > > > > Small bills? Around these parts we call them waders. Each comes with its own > little common law copyright right upside the beak, so nobody's gonna steal > them, pass 'em off for what they ain't. > > Jeffrey L > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Yeah... I think we have that common law too. Of course, a lot of them are - > you probably should be careful about where you walk unless you are wearing > those waders. > > For anyone in the NYC - Woodstock area - I'll be reading @ the Colony Cafe > on June 16th - 6:30 pm.... > > Pop in, I'll sell you a couple of books or buy you a coffee. > > I'll be the one who looks like Howard Stern's sister - only half as rude. > Lol > > Deborah Russell > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet > > Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide > Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From sellwein at hotmail.com Thu Jun 12 10:49:51 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:49:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: > > I'd like to apply for a 0% interest loan for an extended period in the > > amount of 245,000.00 please. Could you make that cash, small bills? > > > > Un-Bob sponge pants > > No problem. But if this kind of thing keeps up, I may have to steal some > more poems, and I don't like doing that. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > > lol... Some how I hear Henny Youngman - Take my poems.....please. > > Deborah > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ Only if you promise to steal mine. --Bob G. Its a deal, mate! Another thought...maybe ten of us could meet in NYC, in a cafe or the Russian Tea Room, and play poem poker - everyone antes up with their latest collection (unpublished and never before seen online) and thirty dollars (to cover publishing costs) play straight poker, winner takes all. who's in??? lol Deborah _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 12 10:59:01 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:59:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry - Paul References: Message-ID: <00c501c330f3$294b6920$26c0fea9@j1c1k6> I have some poems (now who knows where) by someone whose name I forget that had baseball line-ups for teams composed entirely of famous poets. So Shakespeare, I suppose, batted clean-up for one team, Milton for the other. Can't remember, but it was funny--and made sense. Ashbery as shortstop? Or knuckleball reliever? --Bob G. From JackTar at aol.com Thu Jun 12 11:51:14 2003 From: JackTar at aol.com (JackTar at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:51:14 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <6d.130ff0cb.2c19fb72@aol.com> In a message dated 6/11/2003 6:25:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com writes: > Duncan, > > I truely hope that you did not submit to Poetry.com? > > Bob > Alas, I did. Several years ago when thoughts starting erupting from within to break into my consciousness as *poetry*, I received an email from Poetry.com. I submitted a couple of poems. Soon after numerous emails made it my way from them offering the gamut of bullshit about publishing my work with others as well as invitations to gatherings to receive due credit for my outstanding work. I could see through all of these emails - because of the costs. I've since passed up my chances of fame and fortune; at their price. I then searched and found a site that; it turns out, specializes in shredding me, my poems and I. Reeling from that I found a kinder and gentler site that gives rave reviews to the in crowd on this list. I will say my psyche fared better here, but there was a tendency to eventually ignore; on the whole, further submissions. If I reach 500 submissions I get into another class and will fare much better - as far as considerations go. Now; I'm here, trying to learn what I can about why some like my poetry and others at best scoff at my endeavors and why most of yalls poetry doesn't make sense to me. I must admit I feel like a lost ball in tall grass much of the time, but I do pick up tidbits here and there. I've been looking for some degree program in Poetry, online - as I'm a road warrior during the week, traveling to various obsure and not so obscure spots. I don't think I'm going to have luck in finding something of this order, so I continue my study of Babette Deutsch's 4th edition of *Poetry Handbook* A Dictionary of Terms and *The Complete Idiot's Guide to Writing Poetry* by Nikki Moustaki; while ensconced in No tell Motels/Motel Hell. Still, I've learned about most of the sites akin to the ads for naming a star after you for only $49.95 and the hate sites that take pleasure in attacking ones work rather than giving sincere critique. duncan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Thu Jun 12 12:40:30 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:40:30 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry - Paul References: <00c501c330f3$294b6920$26c0fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <005d01c33101$6c69fec0$6401a8c0@TRS80> I can see this metaphor for some poetry and poets: mind-numbingly boring spectacle, very little scoring, overweight wanna-bes flailing their dangerous-looking bats which split open to reveal cork shavings and superballs, and breathless commentators desperate for any kind of action or excitement narrating every grounder as if it were a clear shot to heaven. c From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Thu Jun 12 14:06:47 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry - Paul Message-ID: <20030612180647.E076344A0@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Jun 12 15:15:30 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:15:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry In-Reply-To: <00c501c330f3$294b6920$26c0fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: Donald Hall has a sequence called "Baseball" in his *Museum of Clear Ideas* which takes the far-fetched premise of explaining the game to Kurt Schwitters. The poem is in 9 "innings," plus some "extra innings" later in the book. Plenty of metaphoric play with art & baseball. Here's another one by Hall on baseball-- Old Timers' Day When the tall puffy figure wearing number nine starts late for the fly ball, laboring forward like a lame truckhorse startled by a gartersnake, -- this old fellow whose body we remember as sleek and nervous as a filly's-- and barely catches it in his glove's tip, we rise and applaud weeping: On a green field we observe the ruin of even the bravest body, as Odysseus wept to glimpse among shades the shadow of Achilles. --Donald Hall. Old and New Poems. Ticknor & Fields, 1990. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== > From: "Bob Grumman" > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:59:01 -0400 > To: > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry - Paul > > I have some poems (now who knows where) by someone whose name I forget that > had baseball line-ups for teams composed entirely of famous poets. So > Shakespeare, I suppose, batted clean-up for one team, Milton for the other. > Can't remember, but it was funny--and made sense. Ashbery as shortstop? Or > knuckleball reliever? > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Jun 12 15:13:27 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:13:27 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Always did like these memorable lines by Hall. Also, just reread in Gwynn's Pocket poetry anthology B. H. Fairchild's baseball poem "Body and Soul" with it's fine spine-tingling conclusion. Paul Lake on 6/12/03 2:15 PM, David Graham at grahamd at ripon.edu wrote: > Donald Hall has a sequence called "Baseball" in his *Museum of Clear Ideas* > which takes the far-fetched premise of explaining the game to Kurt > Schwitters. The poem is in 9 "innings," plus some "extra innings" later in > the book. > > Plenty of metaphoric play with art & baseball. > > Here's another one by Hall on baseball-- > > Old Timers' Day > > When the tall puffy > figure wearing number > nine starts > late for the fly ball, > laboring forward > like a lame truckhorse > startled by a gartersnake, > -- this old fellow > whose body we remember > as sleek and nervous as a filly's-- > > and barely catches it > in his glove's > tip, we rise > and applaud weeping: > On a green field > we observe the ruin > of even the bravest > body, as Odysseus > wept to glimpse > among shades the shadow > of Achilles. > > --Donald Hall. Old and New Poems. Ticknor & Fields, 1990. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Jun 12 15:54:19 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:54:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry as Metaphor for Baseball as metaphor for poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Masterful They say you can't think and hit at the same time, but they're wrong: you think with your body, and the whole wave of impact surges patiently through you into your wrists, into your bat, and meets the ball as if this exact and violent tryst had been a fevered secret for a week. The wrists "break," as the batting coaches like to say, but what they do is give away their power, spend themselves, and the ball benefits. When Ted Williams took--we should say "gave"-- batting practice, he?d stand in and chant to himself "My name is Ted Fucking Ballgame and I?m the best fucking hitter in baseball," and he was, jubilantly grim, lining them out pitch after pitch, crouching and uncoiling from the sweet ferocity of excellence. --William Matthews. *A Happy Childhood*. Little-Brown, 1984. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Thu Jun 12 15:57:40 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Message-ID: <20030612195740.DCFF6AB90@sitemail.everyone.net> Duncan, You need not bear your soul or lose any sleep over poetic mishaps. When you get famous even your mistakes will sell! Bob (leaving you a poetic parting shot) VANITY, IS THY TRUE NAME, POET? By Robert R. Cobb Poets seeking publishers in vain, may pay dearly for the privilege. Poets who become household names, are finding different paths and other ways. Avoid the publish or perish mythology, vain glory makes a sad anthology. Pen names and aka's may provide anonymity, some famous poets are nameless entities. Pomposity is seldom worth the price, vanity, is thy true name, poet? Drawn in by contests, lured by prizes, entry fees and vain disguises. Appealing to some urgent need, to seek recognition or fame. Some publishers seem to be well-versed, to scam and scheme away the na?ve` poet's purse. True poetic justice would not be so blind, if more scoundrels were to be derided. Expose them all, for charlatans they may be, who poetically prey and practice their chicanery. Poetry Catamaran "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the 'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" Robert R. Cobb AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. http://rrcobb.tripod.com --- message from JackTar at aol.com attached: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: JackTar at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Copyright protection Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:51:14 EDT Size: 6830 URL: From mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu Thu Jun 12 16:24:56 2003 From: mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu (mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:24:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] send yr poem to the NYer! In-Reply-To: <6d.130ff0cb.2c19fb72@aol.com> References: <6d.130ff0cb.2c19fb72@aol.com> Message-ID: <1055449496.3ee8e1983ecc5@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Hello all, At noon today, the Mainstream Poets sent one poem each to the New Yorker at poetry at newyorker.com. Each poem was entitled "Sparrow," and ended with the couplet, A white-breasted nuthatch nests in my urethra, and begins to sing. You are hereby encouraged to send a "Sparrow" poem to the New Yorker ending with this couplet but otherwise entirely of your own making. The Mainstream Poets suggest that you keep your poem roughly sonnet-sized, as it will have a better chance of being read all the way through. They further suggest that you send your poem in coordination with several poet-friends, for maximum effect. Go get 'em, -m. www.mainstreampoetry.com www.combopoetry.com www.myangiedickinson.blogspot.com From marcus at designerglass.com Thu Jun 12 16:32:25 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:32:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EE8AB19.2600.146C7C@localhost> Catch George Bilgere http://www.georgebilgere.com/inside/poems/catch.html My father came home with a new glove, all tight stitches and unscuffed gold, its deep pocket exhaling baseball, signed by Mays or Mantle or ?The Man,? or some lesser god I?ve since forgotten. He took off his tie and dark jacket and we went outside to break it in, throwing the ball back and forth in the dusk, the big man sweating already, grunting as he tried to fire it at his son, who saw now, for the first time, that his father, who loved to talk baseball at dinner and let him stay up late to watch the fights unfold like grainy nightmares on Gillette?s Cavalcade of Sports, the massive father who could lift him high in the air with one hand, threw like a girl?far and away the worst he could say of anyone? his off-kilter wind-up and release like a raw confession, so naked and helpless in the failing light that thirty years later, still feeling the ball?s soft kiss in my glove, I?m afraid to throw it back. --George Bilgere On 12 Jun 2003 at 14:13, Paul Lake wrote: > Always did like these memorable lines by Hall. Also, just reread in Gwynn's > Pocket poetry anthology B. H. Fairchild's baseball poem "Body and Soul" with > it's fine spine-tingling conclusion. > > Paul Lake > > > > on 6/12/03 2:15 PM, David Graham at grahamd at ripon.edu wrote: > > > Donald Hall has a sequence called "Baseball" in his *Museum of Clear Ideas* > > which takes the far-fetched premise of explaining the game to Kurt > > Schwitters. The poem is in 9 "innings," plus some "extra innings" later in > > the book. > > > > Plenty of metaphoric play with art & baseball. > > > > Here's another one by Hall on baseball-- > > > > Old Timers' Day > > > > When the tall puffy > > figure wearing number > > nine starts > > late for the fly ball, > > laboring forward > > like a lame truckhorse > > startled by a gartersnake, > > -- this old fellow > > whose body we remember > > as sleek and nervous as a filly's-- > > > > and barely catches it > > in his glove's > > tip, we rise > > and applaud weeping: > > On a green field > > we observe the ruin > > of even the bravest > > body, as Odysseus > > wept to glimpse > > among shades the shadow > > of Achilles. > > > > --Donald Hall. Old and New Poems. Ticknor & Fields, 1990. > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Jun 12 16:31:19 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:31:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ai's Guadalajara Hospital In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just happened to learn that this poem is in the collection *Killing Floor*. Used to own it, but don't anymore. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== > From: "jason huff" > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:00:44 -0500 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Ai's Guadalajara Hospital > > I tried to find the book that had Ai's poem ?Guadalajara Hospital? in it, > and I can't seem to find it. can anyone post the poem for me? > > thanks, > jason > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 12 17:47:19 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:47:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] send yr poem to the NYer! References: <6d.130ff0cb.2c19fb72@aol.com> <1055449496.3ee8e1983ecc5@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <001801c3312c$3329b800$50cafea9@j1c1k6> > Hello all, > > At noon today, the Mainstream Poets sent one poem each to the New Yorker at > poetry at newyorker.com. Each poem was entitled "Sparrow," and ended with the > couplet, > A white-breasted nuthatch nests in my > urethra, and begins to sing. > I sent 'em one, Mike--but I changed the final two lines to "A white-breasted nuthatch sings in my urethra, and begins to nest." Sorry, but the poem demanded it. --Bob G. From tadrichards at prodigy.net Thu Jun 12 20:42:56 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 20:42:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry - Paul References: <00c501c330f3$294b6920$26c0fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <001901c33144$bb5b5d10$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> The best of this genre is Mikhail Horowitz's Big League Poets (City Lights) - collages of old fashioned baseball cards with the heads of poets, and brilliant baseball card bio -- I don't have in in front of me, but I remember Edgar Allan "Stoney" Poe, of the Baltimore Nevermorioles, whose lifetime batting average remains a mystery. Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry - Paul > I have some poems (now who knows where) by someone whose name I forget that > had baseball line-ups for teams composed entirely of famous poets. So > Shakespeare, I suppose, batted clean-up for one team, Milton for the other. > Can't remember, but it was funny--and made sense. Ashbery as shortstop? Or > knuckleball reliever? > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards at prodigy.net Thu Jun 12 20:50:21 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 20:50:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry References: Message-ID: <005f01c33145$c4ba8b50$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> A great baseball novel by a poet is Nancy Willard's Things Imvisible to See" Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Lake" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry > Always did like these memorable lines by Hall. Also, just reread in Gwynn's > Pocket poetry anthology B. H. Fairchild's baseball poem "Body and Soul" with > it's fine spine-tingling conclusion. > > Paul Lake > > > > on 6/12/03 2:15 PM, David Graham at grahamd at ripon.edu wrote: > > > Donald Hall has a sequence called "Baseball" in his *Museum of Clear Ideas* > > which takes the far-fetched premise of explaining the game to Kurt > > Schwitters. The poem is in 9 "innings," plus some "extra innings" later in > > the book. > > > > Plenty of metaphoric play with art & baseball. > > > > Here's another one by Hall on baseball-- > > > > Old Timers' Day > > > > When the tall puffy > > figure wearing number > > nine starts > > late for the fly ball, > > laboring forward > > like a lame truckhorse > > startled by a gartersnake, > > -- this old fellow > > whose body we remember > > as sleek and nervous as a filly's-- > > > > and barely catches it > > in his glove's > > tip, we rise > > and applaud weeping: > > On a green field > > we observe the ruin > > of even the bravest > > body, as Odysseus > > wept to glimpse > > among shades the shadow > > of Achilles. > > > > --Donald Hall. Old and New Poems. Ticknor & Fields, 1990. > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards at prodigy.net Thu Jun 12 20:53:36 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 20:53:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry as Metaphor for Baseball as metaphor for poetry References: Message-ID: <006c01c33146$388d6c50$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> "My name is Ted Fucking Ballgame and I?m the best fucking hitter in baseball," -- I tried to use that line in a poem, but I could never make it work ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:54 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry as Metaphor for Baseball as metaphor for poetry Masterful They say you can't think and hit at the same time, but they're wrong: you think with your body, and the whole wave of impact surges patiently through you into your wrists, into your bat, and meets the ball as if this exact and violent tryst had been a fevered secret for a week. The wrists "break," as the batting coaches like to say, but what they do is give away their power, spend themselves, and the ball benefits. When Ted Williams took--we should say "gave"-- batting practice, he?d stand in and chant to himself "My name is Ted Fucking Ballgame and I?m the best fucking hitter in baseball," and he was, jubilantly grim, lining them out pitch after pitch, crouching and uncoiling from the sweet ferocity of excellence. --William Matthews. *A Happy Childhood*. Little-Brown, 1984. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards at prodigy.net Thu Jun 12 21:10:14 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:10:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry References: <3EE8AB19.2600.146C7C@localhost> Message-ID: <007d01c33148$8be4a650$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> I was strolling through San Francisco When an old man I passed by I could tell he was an old baseball player From sellwein at hotmail.com Thu Jun 12 22:42:01 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:42:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry - Paul Message-ID: Lol.... ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Chris Lott" Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry - Paul Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:40:30 -0800 I can see this metaphor for some poetry and poets: mind-numbingly boring spectacle, very little scoring, overweight wanna-bes flailing their dangerous-looking bats which split open to reveal cork shavings and superballs, and breathless commentators desperate for any kind of action or excitement narrating every grounder as if it were a clear shot to heaven. c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 13 00:32:23 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:32:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry References: <3EE8AB19.2600.146C7C@localhost> <007d01c33148$8be4a650$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <3EE953D6.4C7C54D@earthlink.net> This is marvelous. For an extra kick, read it wit ah Scot-ish brogue. Honestly. - Jim TheOldMole wrote: > > I was strolling through San Francisco > When an old man I passed by > I could tell he was an old baseball player > >From the squint lines round his eyes > He was dressed just like a banker > But he looked so sad and tired > He said I haven't long to live > And I've just this last desire > > Bury me next to Marilyn > Marilyn Monroe > She's been lonely far too long > And I know she needs her Joe > Cancel the rosebuds for her grave > We'll make flowers grow > Bury me next to Marilyn > Marilyn Monroe > > He said, "I hit in 56 straight games > And I made the Hall of Fame > But since I struck out with Marilyn > Things were never quite the same > Now I spend my days drinking Mr. Coffee > And I spend my nights alone > Please bury with my Marilyn > One last time I'll jump her bones." > > Bury me next to Marilyn > Marilyn Monroe > She's been lonely far too long > And I know she needs her Joe > Cancel the rosebuds for her grave > We'll make flowers grow > Bury me next to Marilyn > Marilyn Monroe > > Tad > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marcus Bales" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:32 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry > > Catch > George Bilgere http://www.georgebilgere.com/inside/poems/catch.html > > My father came home with a new glove, > all tight stitches and unscuffed gold, > its deep pocket exhaling baseball, > signed by Mays or Mantle or "The Man," > or some lesser god I've since forgotten. > He took off his tie and dark jacket > and we went outside to break it in, > throwing the ball back and forth > in the dusk, the big man sweating > already, grunting as he tried > to fire it at his son, who saw now, > for the first time, that his father, > who loved to talk baseball at dinner > and let him stay up late to watch the fights > unfold like grainy nightmares > on Gillette's Cavalcade of Sports, > the massive father who could lift him > high in the air with one hand, > threw like a girl-far and away > the worst he could say of anyone- > his off-kilter wind-up and release > like a raw confession, so naked > and helpless in the failing light > that thirty years later, still > feeling the ball's soft kiss in my glove, > I'm afraid to throw it back. > --George Bilgere > > On 12 Jun 2003 at 14:13, Paul Lake wrote: > > > Always did like these memorable lines by Hall. Also, just reread in > Gwynn's > > Pocket poetry anthology B. H. Fairchild's baseball poem "Body and Soul" > with > > it's fine spine-tingling conclusion. > > > > Paul Lake > > > > > > > > on 6/12/03 2:15 PM, David Graham at grahamd at ripon.edu wrote: > > > > > Donald Hall has a sequence called "Baseball" in his *Museum of Clear > Ideas* > > > which takes the far-fetched premise of explaining the game to Kurt > > > Schwitters. The poem is in 9 "innings," plus some "extra innings" later > in > > > the book. > > > > > > Plenty of metaphoric play with art & baseball. > > > > > > Here's another one by Hall on baseball-- > > > > > > Old Timers' Day > > > > > > When the tall puffy > > > figure wearing number > > > nine starts > > > late for the fly ball, > > > laboring forward > > > like a lame truckhorse > > > startled by a gartersnake, > > > -- this old fellow > > > whose body we remember > > > as sleek and nervous as a filly's-- > > > > > > and barely catches it > > > in his glove's > > > tip, we rise > > > and applaud weeping: > > > On a green field > > > we observe the ruin > > > of even the bravest > > > body, as Odysseus > > > wept to glimpse > > > among shades the shadow > > > of Achilles. > > > > > > --Donald Hall. Old and New Poems. Ticknor & Fields, 1990. > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > Marcus Bales > > marcus at designerglass.com > http://www.designerglass.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From dager3 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 13 07:18:32 2003 From: dager3 at yahoo.com (Deborah Ager) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 04:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? Message-ID: <20030613111832.52245.qmail@web41210.mail.yahoo.com> I don't understand why people are sending Sparrow poems to the New Yorker? Does anyone else get it? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri Jun 13 00:38:04 2003 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 04:38:04 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? In-Reply-To: <20030613111832.52245.qmail@web41210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: i think there's several levels to it but one is that several years back a nyc poet named sparrow spent months (i think) picketting the new yorker offices in hopes of getting one of his poems published. his poems were very different from the kind that the new yorker normally publishes, but they ended up publishing him (perhaps to shut him up).... well, that's one theory.... on 6/13/03 11:18 AM, Deborah Ager at dager3 at yahoo.com wrote: > I don't understand why people are sending Sparrow poems to the New > Yorker? Does anyone else get it? > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From sellwein at hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 07:27:15 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 07:27:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] send yr poem to the NYer! Message-ID: Lol ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bob Grumman" Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] send yr poem to the NYer! Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:47:19 -0400 > Hello all, > > At noon today, the Mainstream Poets sent one poem each to the New Yorker at > poetry at newyorker.com. Each poem was entitled "Sparrow," and ended with the > couplet, > A white-breasted nuthatch nests in my > urethra, and begins to sing. > I sent 'em one, Mike--but I changed the final two lines to "A white-breasted nuthatch sings in my urethra, and begins to nest." Sorry, but the poem demanded it. --Bob G. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 13 08:20:18 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:20:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? References: <20030613111832.52245.qmail@web41210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c331a6$28306be0$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> One reason is an silly article in the NYer on Gertrude Stein that led to a discussion--I guess at the poetics discusiion group although I thought here, too. A lot of people including me expressed a low opinion of the NYer's poetry and poetry criticism. I believe deluging the NYer with bad poems is an act of sabotage against an enemy of poetry. My poem, however, is terrific. I expect to make a mint from it--if nobody at the NYer steals it. --Bob G. From luap at mallasch.com Fri Jun 13 09:24:08 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:24:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? In-Reply-To: <20030613111832.52245.qmail@web41210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I got the New Yorker years ago, but I don't get it recently. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Deborah Ager wrote: > I don't understand why people are sending Sparrow poems to the New > Yorker? Does anyone else get it? > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From sellwein at hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 10:00:14 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:00:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? kpaul Message-ID: I never did get it. I pretend I do, to impress all the smart people I know. I never cared for their stupid intellectual jokes anyways. The New Yorker does look nice, on the coffee table, with professional magazines like Psychology Today and Woodworker. That is, if the colours coordinate with your furnishings. I usually pick my copies up from the Dentist or Doctor's office, they are hardly used. Since they have started using those peely adress lables, you can remove them as easy as pie. Deborah Russell http://groups.msn.com/ParallelsStudio ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----Original Message Follows---- From: "K. Paul Mallasch" Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 I got the New Yorker years ago, but I don't get it recently. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Deborah Ager wrote: > I don't understand why people are sending Sparrow poems to the New > Yorker? Does anyone else get it? > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From sellwein at hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 10:08:31 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:08:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? Message-ID: Bob, my poem will be published, just look at what they sent to me, personally : ..."This email confirms our receipt of your poetry submission. Please take note of today's date. The poetry department is small, but we will read submissions within a six-week period. If you have not heard from us after six weeks, please assume that your work has not been accepted for publication. Due to the volume of submissions, we are unable to respond except to confirm acceptance of work. Many thanks." If that isn't a good sign, then I don't know what it is. I'm practically on a first name basis with what's his name. Sorry Bob, but my poem is so much better than your's... or was that one I took from you?... anyway, it has to be better than what you sent. Deborah ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bob Grumman" Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:20:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by mc6-f9.law1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:23:25 -0700 Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCI7ST005568;Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:18:07 -0400 Received: from [205.161.234.5] (smtp.nut-n-but.net [205.161.234.5])by wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCHmST005555for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:17:48 -0400 Received: from nut-n-but.net (205.161.239.5) by [205.161.234.5] with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:22:51 -0400 Received: from j1c1k6 (205.161.239.64) by nut-n-but.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:21:40 -0400 X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRigLaEiTQQBlDPU44G8LMD9u Message-ID: <000d01c331a6$28306be0$f9f6fea9 at j1c1k6> References: <20030613111832.52245.qmail at web41210.mail.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu Errors-To: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu X-BeenThere: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Return-Path: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2003 12:23:25.0238 (UTC) FILETIME=[964BAD60:01C331A6] One reason is an silly article in the NYer on Gertrude Stein that led to a discussion--I guess at the poetics discusiion group although I thought here, too. A lot of people including me expressed a low opinion of the NYer's poetry and poetry criticism. I believe deluging the NYer with bad poems is an act of sabotage against an enemy of poetry. My poem, however, is terrific. I expect to make a mint from it--if nobody at the NYer steals it. --Bob G. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 13 10:53:07 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:53:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? References: Message-ID: <00aa01c331bb$8108f880$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> I'm not going to tell YOU where and when I submit stuff, anymore, Deborah. (And I poured my soul into that poem of mine, which no one will now see!) disconsolately, Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Russell" To: Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > Bob, my poem will be published, just look at what they sent to me, > personally : > > ..."This email confirms our receipt of your poetry submission. Please take > note of today's date. The poetry department is small, but we will read > submissions within a six-week period. If you have not heard from us after > six weeks, please assume that your work has not been accepted for > publication. Due to the volume of submissions, we are unable to respond > except to confirm acceptance of > work. Many thanks." > > If that isn't a good sign, then I don't know what it is. I'm practically on > a first name basis with what's his name. Sorry Bob, but my poem is so much > better than your's... or was that one I took from you?... anyway, it has to > be better than what you sent. > > > Deborah > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Bob Grumman" > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:20:18 -0400 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by mc6-f9.law1.hotmail.com > with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:23:25 -0700 > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCI7ST005568;Fri, 13 Jun > 2003 08:18:07 -0400 > Received: from [205.161.234.5] (smtp.nut-n-but.net [205.161.234.5])by > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCHmST005555for > ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:17:48 -0400 > Received: from nut-n-but.net (205.161.239.5) by [205.161.234.5] with ESMTP > (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, > 13 Jun 2003 08:22:51 -0400 > Received: from j1c1k6 (205.161.239.64) by nut-n-but.net with SMTP (Eudora > Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, 13 Jun > 2003 08:21:40 -0400 > X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRigLaEiTQQBlDPU44G8LMD9u > Message-ID: <000d01c331a6$28306be0$f9f6fea9 at j1c1k6> > References: <20030613111832.52245.qmail at web41210.mail.yahoo.com> > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > Sender: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Errors-To: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > X-BeenThere: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 > Precedence: bulk > List-Help: > List-Post: > List-Subscribe: > , > List-Id: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > > List-Unsubscribe: > , > List-Archive: > Return-Path: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2003 12:23:25.0238 (UTC) > FILETIME=[964BAD60:01C331A6] > > One reason is an silly article in the NYer on Gertrude Stein that led to a > discussion--I guess at the poetics discusiion group although I thought here, > too. A lot of people including me expressed a low opinion of the NYer's > poetry and poetry criticism. I believe deluging the NYer with bad poems is > an act of sabotage against an enemy of poetry. My poem, however, is > terrific. I expect to make a mint from it--if nobody at the NYer steals it. > > --Bob G. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From MIM47 at aol.com Fri Jun 13 10:56:45 2003 From: MIM47 at aol.com (MIM47 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:56:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #1560 Message-ID: Re: the NYer: I think it is so "typically NYer" that they are now using a "disclaimer" as their official pre-rejection letter. It was bound to come to that. I rather like being pre-rejected. It takes the sting off the eventual confusion about why the magazine wants an SASE when you physically mail a submission, but does not actually use it to rejct your work. I think they must be peeling the stamps off and using them again to save $$. These are, after all, tough economic times. I used to read the NYer religiously when I went to the home of a friend who is "from there." This friend has moved and I am free of feeling obligated. A well-known poet friend of mine told me he submitted for 25 years before getting a single acceptance. Can you imagine all the stamps these cheapskates got off his submissions?! At least now we can submit online and save stamps. Carol Bachofner From luap at mallasch.com Fri Jun 13 11:18:27 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:18:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? In-Reply-To: <00aa01c331bb$8108f880$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: Bob - It was a baseball poem, wasn't it? ;) -kpaul On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Bob Grumman wrote: > I'm not going to tell YOU where and when I submit stuff, anymore, Deborah. > (And I poured my soul into that poem of mine, which no one will now see!) > > disconsolately, Bob G. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Deborah Russell" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > > > Bob, my poem will be published, just look at what they sent to me, > > personally : > > > > ..."This email confirms our receipt of your poetry submission. Please take > > note of today's date. The poetry department is small, but we will read > > submissions within a six-week period. If you have not heard from us after > > six weeks, please assume that your work has not been accepted for > > publication. Due to the volume of submissions, we are unable to respond > > except to confirm acceptance of > > work. Many thanks." > > > > If that isn't a good sign, then I don't know what it is. I'm practically > on > > a first name basis with what's his name. Sorry Bob, but my poem is so > much > > better than your's... or was that one I took from you?... anyway, it has > to > > be better than what you sent. > > > > > > Deborah > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "Bob Grumman" > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To: > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:20:18 -0400 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by > mc6-f9.law1.hotmail.com > > with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:23:25 -0700 > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCI7ST005568;Fri, 13 Jun > > 2003 08:18:07 -0400 > > Received: from [205.161.234.5] (smtp.nut-n-but.net [205.161.234.5])by > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCHmST005555for > > ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:17:48 -0400 > > Received: from nut-n-but.net (205.161.239.5) by [205.161.234.5] with ESMTP > > (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, > > 13 Jun 2003 08:22:51 -0400 > > Received: from j1c1k6 (205.161.239.64) by nut-n-but.net with SMTP (Eudora > > Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, 13 Jun > > 2003 08:21:40 -0400 > > X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRigLaEiTQQBlDPU44G8LMD9u > > Message-ID: <000d01c331a6$28306be0$f9f6fea9 at j1c1k6> > > References: <20030613111832.52245.qmail at web41210.mail.yahoo.com> > > X-Priority: 3 > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > > Sender: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Errors-To: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > X-BeenThere: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 > > Precedence: bulk > > List-Help: > > List-Post: > > List-Subscribe: > > > , est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=subscribe> > > List-Id: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > > > > List-Unsubscribe: > > > , est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=unsubscribe> > > List-Archive: > > Return-Path: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2003 12:23:25.0238 (UTC) > > FILETIME=[964BAD60:01C331A6] > > > > One reason is an silly article in the NYer on Gertrude Stein that led to a > > discussion--I guess at the poetics discusiion group although I thought > here, > > too. A lot of people including me expressed a low opinion of the NYer's > > poetry and poetry criticism. I believe deluging the NYer with bad poems > is > > an act of sabotage against an enemy of poetry. My poem, however, is > > terrific. I expect to make a mint from it--if nobody at the NYer steals > it. > > > > --Bob G. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Jun 13 12:03:30 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:03:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker Poems Message-ID: I think the poetry in *The New Yorker* has been such a fat, tempting target for so long that it's easy not to even look any more. And to assume, despite some evidence to the contrary, that all the poems printed are genteel flower-petals nestled amid the perfume and luxury car ads. Naturally the poems printed in such a glossy general interest mag are not going to be to the taste of all, and definitely won't please readers for whom "mainstream" is by definition a term of derision. But if you add up the yearly crop of poems they publish (2 or 4 each week) I think that the result would compare reasonably well with the contents of most mainstream quarterlies--a lot of annoyingly competent tepid stuff in various period styles, yes, but a good handful of winners in the mix. Is there any glossy mag that does better? Beauty There she was on "Entertainment Tonight." Someone had caught a glimpse of Bardot after all these years. Brigitte Bardot running through the trees, across a meadow, a dog running with her. The hair still long. Then another part, showing her on the patio, aged. (Sun-damaged, we say.) The violation of beauty never happens just once. When my father heard that his beloved dog had chased and killed the rancher's sheep, he went right out and shot it. Because, he said, once they ran with the pack and tasted blood it would never stop. --Linda Gregg. *The New Yorker* 25 March 2002. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Jun 13 12:09:01 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:09:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II Message-ID: I Saw You Walking I saw you walking through Newark Penn Station in your shoes of white ash. At the corner of my nervous glance your dazed passage first forced me away, tracing the crescent berth you'd give a drunk, a lurcher, nuzzling all corners with ill will and his stench, but not this one, not today; one shirt arm's sheared clean from the shoulder, the whole bare limb wet with muscle and shining dimly pink, the other full-sheathed in cotton, Brooks Bros. type, the cuff yet buttoned at the wrist, a parody of careful dress, preparedness -- so you had not rolled up your sleeves yet this morning when your suit jacket (here are the pants, dark gray, with subtle stripe, as worn by men like you on ordinary days) and briefcase (you've none, reverse commuter come from the pit with nothing to carry but your life) were torn from you, as your life was not. Your face itself seemed to be walking, leading your body north, though the age of the face, blank and ashen, passing forth and away from me, was unclear, the sandy crown of hair powdered white like your feet, but underneath not yet gray -- forty-seven? forty-eight? The age of someone's father -- and I trembled for your luck, for your broad, dusted back, half shirted, walking away; I should have dropped to my knees to thank God you were alive, o my God, in whom I don't believe. --Deborah Garrison. *The New Yorker*, 22 October 2001. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Jun 13 12:18:29 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:18:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems III Message-ID: I clipped this one from *The New Yorker* years ago, before it appeared in a book. Have lost the original citation. Realism We are not so badly off, if we can Admire Dutch painting. For that means We shrug off what we have been told For a hundred, two hundred years. Though we lost Much of our previous confidence. Now we agree That those trees outside the window, which probably exist, Only pretend to greenness and treeness And that the language loses when it tries to cope With clusters of molecules. And yet, this here: A jar, a tin plate, a half-peeled lemon, Walnuts, a loaf of bread, last--and so strongly It is hard not to believe in their lastingness. And thus abstract art is brought to shame, Even if we do not deserve any other. Therefore I enter those landscapes Under a cloudy sky from which a ray Shoots out, and in the middle of dark plains A spot of brightness glows. Or the shore With huts, boats, and on yellowish ice Tiny figures skating. All this Is here eternally, just because once it was. Splendor (certainly incomprehensible) Touches a cracked wall, a refuse heap, The floor of an inn, jerkins of the rustics, A broom, and two fish bleeding on a board. Rejoice! Give thanks! I raised my voice To join them in their choral singing, Amid their ruffles, collets, and silk skirts, One of them already, who vanished long ago. And our song soared up like smoke from a censer. --Czeslaw Milosz. *Facing the River*. Trans. Milosz and Robert Hass. Manchester: Carcanet, 1995. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From sellwein at hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 12:17:12 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:17:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? Message-ID: This is the actual copy (I hope by posting it to this list it will still qualify for the New Yorker.) Sparrow This is just to say... it isn't all about softball sometimes it has more to do with speed and distance. And let that be a warning to you, or a lesson for you. Mark my words. Some people don't know how to put the sheath back on an umbrella. They only know how to pull it off. Now - I'm curiously aroused - my attention span is shorter than the winter solstice. It must be spring ! A white-breasted nuthatch sings gaily in my uterus and begins to spin, dancing like Fred Astaire. deborah (professional sparrow poemist - no poem too large or too small. all work guaranteed, at least, for thirty days.) russell ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----Original Message Follows---- From: "K. Paul Mallasch" Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 Bob - It was a baseball poem, wasn't it? ;) -kpaul On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Bob Grumman wrote: > I'm not going to tell YOU where and when I submit stuff, anymore, Deborah. > (And I poured my soul into that poem of mine, which no one will now see!) > > disconsolately, Bob G. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Deborah Russell" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:08 AM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > > > Bob, my poem will be published, just look at what they sent to me, > > personally : > > > > ..."This email confirms our receipt of your poetry submission. Please take > > note of today's date. The poetry department is small, but we will read > > submissions within a six-week period. If you have not heard from us after > > six weeks, please assume that your work has not been accepted for > > publication. Due to the volume of submissions, we are unable to respond > > except to confirm acceptance of > > work. Many thanks." > > > > If that isn't a good sign, then I don't know what it is. I'm practically > on > > a first name basis with what's his name. Sorry Bob, but my poem is so > much > > better than your's... or was that one I took from you?... anyway, it has > to > > be better than what you sent. > > > > > > Deborah > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "Bob Grumman" > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To: > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:20:18 -0400 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by > mc6-f9.law1.hotmail.com > > with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:23:25 -0700 > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCI7ST005568;Fri, 13 Jun > > 2003 08:18:07 -0400 > > Received: from [205.161.234.5] (smtp.nut-n-but.net [205.161.234.5])by > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCHmST005555for > > ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:17:48 -0400 > > Received: from nut-n-but.net (205.161.239.5) by [205.161.234.5] with ESMTP > > (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, > > 13 Jun 2003 08:22:51 -0400 > > Received: from j1c1k6 (205.161.239.64) by nut-n-but.net with SMTP (Eudora > > Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, 13 Jun > > 2003 08:21:40 -0400 > > X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRigLaEiTQQBlDPU44G8LMD9u > > Message-ID: <000d01c331a6$28306be0$f9f6fea9 at j1c1k6> > > References: <20030613111832.52245.qmail at web41210.mail.yahoo.com> > > X-Priority: 3 > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > > Sender: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Errors-To: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > X-BeenThere: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 > > Precedence: bulk > > List-Help: > > List-Post: > > List-Subscribe: > > > , est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=subscribe> > > List-Id: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > > > > List-Unsubscribe: > > > , est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=unsubscribe> > > List-Archive: > > Return-Path: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2003 12:23:25.0238 (UTC) > > FILETIME=[964BAD60:01C331A6] > > > > One reason is an silly article in the NYer on Gertrude Stein that led to a > > discussion--I guess at the poetics discusiion group although I thought > here, > > too. A lot of people including me expressed a low opinion of the NYer's > > poetry and poetry criticism. I believe deluging the NYer with bad poems > is > > an act of sabotage against an enemy of poetry. My poem, however, is > > terrific. I expect to make a mint from it--if nobody at the NYer steals > it. > > > > --Bob G. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From sellwein at hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 12:23:13 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:23:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II Message-ID: Good poem- good writer. Is she from Maryland? ----Original Message Follows---- From: David Graham Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:09:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by mc5-f37.law1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:08:30 -0700 Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DG36ST007010;Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:03:06 -0400 Received: from out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net [169.207.3.121])by wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DG2IST006992for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:02:18 -0400 Received: from mail5.mx.voyager.net (mail5.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.204])by out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA72D78132for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:07:19 -0500 (CDT) I Saw You Walking I saw you walking through Newark Penn Station in your shoes of white ash. At the corner of my nervous glance your dazed passage first forced me away, tracing the crescent berth you'd give a drunk, a lurcher, nuzzling all corners with ill will and his stench, but not this one, not today; one shirt arm's sheared clean from the shoulder, the whole bare limb wet with muscle and shining dimly pink, the other full-sheathed in cotton, Brooks Bros. type, the cuff yet buttoned at the wrist, a parody of careful dress, preparedness -- so you had not rolled up your sleeves yet this morning when your suit jacket (here are the pants, dark gray, with subtle stripe, as worn by men like you on ordinary days) and briefcase (you've none, reverse commuter come from the pit with nothing to carry but your life) were torn from you, as your life was not. Your face itself seemed to be walking, leading your body north, though the age of the face, blank and ashen, passing forth and away from me, was unclear, the sandy crown of hair powdered white like your feet, but underneath not yet gray -- forty-seven? forty-eight? The age of someone's father -- and I trembled for your luck, for your broad, dusted back, half shirted, walking away; I should have dropped to my knees to thank God you were alive, o my God, in whom I don't believe. --Deborah Garrison. *The New Yorker*, 22 October 2001. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu Fri Jun 13 12:47:24 2003 From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:47:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030613114527.023a0bb0@medicine.nodak.edu> At 11:09 AM 6/13/03 -0500, you wrote: >I Saw You Walking > >I saw you walking through Newark Penn Station >in your shoes of white ash. At the corner >of my nervous glance your dazed passage >first forced me away, tracing the crescent >berth you'd give a drunk, a lurcher, nuzzling >all corners with ill will and his stench, but >not this one, not today; one shirt arm's sheared >clean from the shoulder, the whole bare limb >wet with muscle and shining dimly pink, >the other full-sheathed in cotton, Brooks Bros. >type, the cuff yet buttoned at the wrist, a >parody of careful dress, preparedness -- >so you had not rolled up your sleeves yet this >morning when your suit jacket (here are >the pants, dark gray, with subtle stripe, as worn >by men like you on ordinary days) >and briefcase (you've none, reverse commuter >come from the pit with nothing to carry >but your life) were torn from you, as your life >was not. Your face itself seemed to be walking, >leading your body north, though the age >of the face, blank and ashen, passing forth >and away from me, was unclear, the sandy >crown of hair powdered white like your feet, but >underneath not yet gray -- forty-seven? >forty-eight? The age of someone's father -- >and I trembled for your luck, for your broad, >dusted back, half shirted, walking away; >I should have dropped to my knees to thank God >you were alive, o my God, in whom I don't believe. > >--Deborah Garrison. *The New Yorker*, 22 October 2001. The consensus among my friends was that this was the best written about the fall, just after the fall. Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Jun 13 12:47:26 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:47:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II References: Message-ID: <008f01c331cb$78ba4020$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> She's the young woman who was poetry editor for the New Yorker, and who published a bookof poems called "A Working Girl Can't Win" that were mostly god-awful Judith Viorst-type poems, but got a lot of publicity and good sales. This one's kinda better than most of her stuff,. but still facile for my taste ("At the corner/ of my nervous glance"). Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Russell" To: Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II > > Good poem- good writer. Is she from Maryland? > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: David Graham > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" > Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:09:01 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by > mc5-f37.law1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun > 2003 09:08:30 -0700 > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DG36ST007010;Fri, 13 Jun > 2003 12:03:06 -0400 > Received: from out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net > [169.207.3.121])by wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id > h5DG2IST006992for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:02:18 > -0400 > Received: from mail5.mx.voyager.net (mail5.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.204])by > out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA72D78132for > ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:07:19 -0500 (CDT) > > > > I Saw You Walking > > I saw you walking through Newark Penn Station > in your shoes of white ash. At the corner > of my nervous glance your dazed passage > first forced me away, tracing the crescent > berth you'd give a drunk, a lurcher, nuzzling > all corners with ill will and his stench, but > not this one, not today; one shirt arm's sheared > clean from the shoulder, the whole bare limb > wet with muscle and shining dimly pink, > the other full-sheathed in cotton, Brooks Bros. > type, the cuff yet buttoned at the wrist, a > parody of careful dress, preparedness -- > so you had not rolled up your sleeves yet this > morning when your suit jacket (here are > the pants, dark gray, with subtle stripe, as worn > by men like you on ordinary days) > and briefcase (you've none, reverse commuter > come from the pit with nothing to carry > but your life) were torn from you, as your life > was not. Your face itself seemed to be walking, > leading your body north, though the age > of the face, blank and ashen, passing forth > and away from me, was unclear, the sandy > crown of hair powdered white like your feet, but > underneath not yet gray -- forty-seven? > forty-eight? The age of someone's father -- > and I trembled for your luck, for your broad, > dusted back, half shirted, walking away; > I should have dropped to my knees to thank God > you were alive, o my God, in whom I don't believe. > > --Deborah Garrison. *The New Yorker*, 22 October 2001. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 13 12:56:42 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:56:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? References: Message-ID: <3EEA024A.55C32651@earthlink.net> Dear Deborah Russell: Though your poem captivated us initially, we must turn it down due to the last two lines, which is as far as we read. - Editors, The Arizonaire Deborah Russell wrote: > > This is the actual copy (I hope by posting it to this list it will still > qualify for the New Yorker.) > > Sparrow > > This is just to say... > it isn't all about > softball > sometimes it has more > to do with speed and > distance. > And let that > be a warning > to you, or > a lesson for you. > Mark my words. > Some people > don't know how > to put the sheath > back on > an umbrella. > They only know > how > to > pull it off. > Now - > I'm curiously aroused - > my attention span > is shorter than the > winter solstice. > It must be spring ! > A white-breasted nuthatch > sings gaily in my uterus > and begins to spin, > dancing like Fred Astaire. > > deborah (professional sparrow poemist - no poem too large or too small. all > work > guaranteed, at least, for thirty days.) russell > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "K. Paul Mallasch" > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 Bob - > > It was a baseball poem, wasn't it? ;) > > -kpaul > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > I'm not going to tell YOU where and when I submit stuff, anymore, > Deborah. > > (And I poured my soul into that poem of mine, which no one will now see!) > > > > disconsolately, Bob G. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Deborah Russell" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:08 AM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > > > > > > Bob, my poem will be published, just look at what they sent to me, > > > personally : > > > > > > ..."This email confirms our receipt of your poetry submission. Please > take > > > note of today's date. The poetry department is small, but we will read > > > submissions within a six-week period. If you have not heard from us > after > > > six weeks, please assume that your work has not been accepted for > > > publication. Due to the volume of submissions, we are unable to > respond > > > except to confirm acceptance of > > > work. Many thanks." > > > > > > If that isn't a good sign, then I don't know what it is. I'm > practically > > on > > > a first name basis with what's his name. Sorry Bob, but my poem is so > > much > > > better than your's... or was that one I took from you?... anyway, it > has > > to > > > be better than what you sent. > > > > > > > > > Deborah > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > From: "Bob Grumman" > > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:20:18 -0400 > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by > > mc6-f9.law1.hotmail.com > > > with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:23:25 -0700 > > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by > > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCI7ST005568;Fri, 13 > Jun > > > 2003 08:18:07 -0400 > > > Received: from [205.161.234.5] (smtp.nut-n-but.net [205.161.234.5])by > > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCHmST005555for > > > ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:17:48 -0400 > > > Received: from nut-n-but.net (205.161.239.5) by [205.161.234.5] with > ESMTP > > > (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; > Fri, > > > 13 Jun 2003 08:22:51 -0400 > > > Received: from j1c1k6 (205.161.239.64) by nut-n-but.net with SMTP > (Eudora > > > Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, 13 > Jun > > > 2003 08:21:40 -0400 > > > X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRigLaEiTQQBlDPU44G8LMD9u > > > Message-ID: <000d01c331a6$28306be0$f9f6fea9 at j1c1k6> > > > References: <20030613111832.52245.qmail at web41210.mail.yahoo.com> > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > > > Sender: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Errors-To: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > X-BeenThere: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 > > > Precedence: bulk > > > List-Help: > > > List-Post: > > > List-Subscribe: > > > > > > , > est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=subscribe> > > > List-Id: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > > > > > > List-Unsubscribe: > > > > > > , > est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=unsubscribe> > > > List-Archive: > > > Return-Path: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2003 12:23:25.0238 (UTC) > > > FILETIME=[964BAD60:01C331A6] > > > > > > One reason is an silly article in the NYer on Gertrude Stein that led > to a > > > discussion--I guess at the poetics discusiion group although I thought > > here, > > > too. A lot of people including me expressed a low opinion of the > NYer's > > > poetry and poetry criticism. I believe deluging the NYer with bad > poems > > is > > > an act of sabotage against an enemy of poetry. My poem, however, is > > > terrific. I expect to make a mint from it--if nobody at the NYer > steals > > it. > > > > > > --Bob G. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet > > Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide > Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 13 12:54:13 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:54:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker Poems References: Message-ID: <00b801c331cc$6c08a0a0$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> > I think the poetry in *The New Yorker* has been such a fat, tempting target > for so long that it's easy not to even look any more. And to assume, > despite some evidence to the contrary, that all the poems printed are > genteel flower-petals nestled amid the perfume and luxury car ads. > > Naturally the poems printed in such a glossy general interest mag are not > going to be to the taste of all, and definitely won't please readers for > whom "mainstream" is by definition a term of derision. Which it is not for me. I consider the New Yorker's problems to be two: (1) it rarely prints superior mainstream poems; (2) it ONLY prints mainstream poems. Worse, it is similarly unadventurous in choosing whom to review. I wonder if innovative artists in other fields like the dance or painting believe their field's most adventurous practitioners are as ignored by the New Yorker as innovative poets believe their field's most adventurous ones are. > But if you add up > the yearly crop of poems they publish (2 or 4 each week) I think that the > result would compare reasonably well with the contents of most mainstream > quarterlies--a lot of annoyingly competent tepid stuff in various period > styles, yes, but a good handful of winners in the mix. > > Is there any glossy mag that does better? That's like asking if any glossy mag investigates the lives of important people better than People. Aside from that, few other glossies pose as culture magazines. > Beauty All I'll say about this poem is that it didn't excite me. --Bob G. From marcus at designerglass.com Fri Jun 13 13:03:01 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:03:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3EE9CB85.6456.129F567@localhost> > Good poem- good writer. Is she from Maryland? I thought she was an African-American tennis player Marcus > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: David Graham > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" > Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:09:01 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by > mc5-f37.law1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun > 2003 09:08:30 -0700 > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DG36ST007010;Fri, 13 Jun > 2003 12:03:06 -0400 > Received: from out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net > [169.207.3.121])by wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id > h5DG2IST006992for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:02:18 > -0400 > Received: from mail5.mx.voyager.net (mail5.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.204])by > out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA72D78132for > ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:07:19 -0500 (CDT) > > > > I Saw You Walking > > I saw you walking through Newark Penn Station > in your shoes of white ash. At the corner > of my nervous glance your dazed passage > first forced me away, tracing the crescent > berth you'd give a drunk, a lurcher, nuzzling > all corners with ill will and his stench, but > not this one, not today; one shirt arm's sheared > clean from the shoulder, the whole bare limb > wet with muscle and shining dimly pink, > the other full-sheathed in cotton, Brooks Bros. > type, the cuff yet buttoned at the wrist, a > parody of careful dress, preparedness -- > so you had not rolled up your sleeves yet this > morning when your suit jacket (here are > the pants, dark gray, with subtle stripe, as worn > by men like you on ordinary days) > and briefcase (you've none, reverse commuter > come from the pit with nothing to carry > but your life) were torn from you, as your life > was not. Your face itself seemed to be walking, > leading your body north, though the age > of the face, blank and ashen, passing forth > and away from me, was unclear, the sandy > crown of hair powdered white like your feet, but > underneath not yet gray -- forty-seven? > forty-eight? The age of someone's father -- > and I trembled for your luck, for your broad, > dusted back, half shirted, walking away; > I should have dropped to my knees to thank God > you were alive, o my God, in whom I don't believe. > > --Deborah Garrison. *The New Yorker*, 22 October 2001. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 13 12:56:49 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:56:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? References: Message-ID: <00c201c331cc$c894f300$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> > Bob - > > It was a baseball poem, wasn't it? ;) > > -kpaul > Dang, I hate admit it, after pouring my soul into it, but I forget. --Bob G. From sellwein at hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 12:59:20 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:59:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II Message-ID: That is the same line I seemed to have a slight problem with, but that might be a matter of personal taste. - Deborah ----Original Message Follows---- From: "TheOldMole" Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:47:26 -0400 > > Good poem- good writer. Is she from Maryland? > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: David Graham > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" > Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:09:01 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by > mc5-f37.law1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun > 2003 09:08:30 -0700 > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DG36ST007010;Fri, 13 Jun > 2003 12:03:06 -0400 > Received: from out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net > [169.207.3.121])by wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id > h5DG2IST006992for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:02:18 > -0400 > Received: from mail5.mx.voyager.net (mail5.mx.voyager.net [216.93.66.204])by > out3.mx.nwbl.wi.voyager.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA72D78132for > ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:07:19 -0500 (CDT) > > > > I Saw You Walking > > I saw you walking through Newark Penn Station > in your shoes of white ash. At the corner > of my nervous glance your dazed passage > first forced me away, tracing the crescent > berth you'd give a drunk, a lurcher, nuzzling > all corners with ill will and his stench, but > not this one, not today; one shirt arm's sheared > clean from the shoulder, the whole bare limb > wet with muscle and shining dimly pink, > the other full-sheathed in cotton, Brooks Bros. > type, the cuff yet buttoned at the wrist, a > parody of careful dress, preparedness -- > so you had not rolled up your sleeves yet this > morning when your suit jacket (here are > the pants, dark gray, with subtle stripe, as worn > by men like you on ordinary days) > and briefcase (you've none, reverse commuter > come from the pit with nothing to carry > but your life) were torn from you, as your life > was not. Your face itself seemed to be walking, > leading your body north, though the age > of the face, blank and ashen, passing forth > and away from me, was unclear, the sandy > crown of hair powdered white like your feet, but > underneath not yet gray -- forty-seven? > forty-eight? The age of someone's father -- > and I trembled for your luck, for your broad, > dusted back, half shirted, walking away; > I should have dropped to my knees to thank God > you were alive, o my God, in whom I don't believe. > > --Deborah Garrison. *The New Yorker*, 22 October 2001. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 13 13:10:59 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:10:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker poems II References: <008f01c331cb$78ba4020$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <00ec01c331ce$c3880080$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> >This one's kinda better than most of her stuff,. but still facile for > my taste ("At the corner/ of my nervous glance"). > > Tad Ha, that was the only part I even partially liked. Standard heart-felt journalism, I thought. --Bob G. (Every day God thanks God he doesn't exist.) From sellwein at hotmail.com Fri Jun 13 13:33:42 2003 From: sellwein at hotmail.com (Deborah Russell) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:33:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? Message-ID: How can I trust that you haven't removed my name and submitted this poem as your own? That's it!!! I will never write another song, another sonnet, or even haiku. I am finish, done, through trying to prove my creative abilities, my remarkable genius and exceptional originality. On the other hand, if I edit the last two lines, would you reconsider? I really need to have this one poem published. I'm trying to feed five pre-school age children and earn enough to pay medical expenses for my dear great aunt and for two tickets to see Bob Dylan live. This poem is a dedication to all women, everywhere who have ever been ignored and abused by avid arm-chair sports addiction. I feel this speaks to the people, in a way that no other poem has ever done. It is motivational, creative and most inspiring. It is a poem that touches the very soul. I also think you should be aware that this poem was selected for publication by Famous Poets and their affiliates. I turned them down, to submit solely to your unique and artistic publication. A publication that is admired world-wide. Almost anyone would give their eye teeth to be published in your journal, but I? I can only offer you the best poem I have ever written. Oh, I would also like for you to mention, somewhere, that my inspiration, for this poem, came from a poet known only as Bob. You could probably put that in small print. THANKS!!!! :) I would appreciate your reconsideration and timely response. Kind regards, Deborah Russell ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----Original Message Follows---- From: James Cervantes Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:56:42 -0700 Dear Deborah Russell: Though your poem captivated us initially, we must turn it down due to the last two lines, which is as far as we read. - Editors, The Arizonaire Deborah Russell wrote: > > This is the actual copy (I hope by posting it to this list it will still > qualify for the New Yorker.) > > Sparrow > > This is just to say... > it isn't all about > softball > sometimes it has more > to do with speed and > distance. > And let that > be a warning > to you, or > a lesson for you. > Mark my words. > Some people > don't know how > to put the sheath > back on > an umbrella. > They only know > how > to > pull it off. > Now - > I'm curiously aroused - > my attention span > is shorter than the > winter solstice. > It must be spring ! > A white-breasted nuthatch > sings gaily in my uterus > and begins to spin, > dancing like Fred Astaire. > > deborah (professional sparrow poemist - no poem too large or too small. all > work > guaranteed, at least, for thirty days.) russell > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "K. Paul Mallasch" > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 Bob - > > It was a baseball poem, wasn't it? ;) > > -kpaul > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > I'm not going to tell YOU where and when I submit stuff, anymore, > Deborah. > > (And I poured my soul into that poem of mine, which no one will now see!) > > > > disconsolately, Bob G. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Deborah Russell" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:08 AM > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > > > > > > Bob, my poem will be published, just look at what they sent to me, > > > personally : > > > > > > ..."This email confirms our receipt of your poetry submission. Please > take > > > note of today's date. The poetry department is small, but we will read > > > submissions within a six-week period. If you have not heard from us > after > > > six weeks, please assume that your work has not been accepted for > > > publication. Due to the volume of submissions, we are unable to > respond > > > except to confirm acceptance of > > > work. Many thanks." > > > > > > If that isn't a good sign, then I don't know what it is. I'm > practically > > on > > > a first name basis with what's his name. Sorry Bob, but my poem is so > > much > > > better than your's... or was that one I took from you?... anyway, it > has > > to > > > be better than what you sent. > > > > > > > > > Deborah > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > From: "Bob Grumman" > > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:20:18 -0400 > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by > > mc6-f9.law1.hotmail.com > > > with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:23:25 -0700 > > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by > > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCI7ST005568;Fri, 13 > Jun > > > 2003 08:18:07 -0400 > > > Received: from [205.161.234.5] (smtp.nut-n-but.net [205.161.234.5])by > > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCHmST005555for > > > ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:17:48 -0400 > > > Received: from nut-n-but.net (205.161.239.5) by [205.161.234.5] with > ESMTP > > > (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; > Fri, > > > 13 Jun 2003 08:22:51 -0400 > > > Received: from j1c1k6 (205.161.239.64) by nut-n-but.net with SMTP > (Eudora > > > Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, 13 > Jun > > > 2003 08:21:40 -0400 > > > X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRigLaEiTQQBlDPU44G8LMD9u > > > Message-ID: <000d01c331a6$28306be0$f9f6fea9 at j1c1k6> > > > References: <20030613111832.52245.qmail at web41210.mail.yahoo.com> > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > > > Sender: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Errors-To: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > X-BeenThere: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 > > > Precedence: bulk > > > List-Help: > > > List-Post: > > > List-Subscribe: > > > > > > , > est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=subscribe> > > > List-Id: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > > > > > > List-Unsubscribe: > > > > > > , > est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=unsubscribe> > > > List-Archive: > > > Return-Path: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2003 12:23:25.0238 (UTC) > > > FILETIME=[964BAD60:01C331A6] > > > > > > One reason is an silly article in the NYer on Gertrude Stein that led > to a > > > discussion--I guess at the poetics discusiion group although I thought > > here, > > > too. A lot of people including me expressed a low opinion of the > NYer's > > > poetry and poetry criticism. I believe deluging the NYer with bad > poems > > is > > > an act of sabotage against an enemy of poetry. My poem, however, is > > > terrific. I expect to make a mint from it--if nobody at the NYer > steals > > it. > > > > > > --Bob G. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet > > Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide > Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Jun 13 13:37:57 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:37:57 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? References: Message-ID: <011201c331d2$877809b0$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Hey, you think you've got problems. Just be glad they don't want to see Elton John and Billy Joel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Russell" To: Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > How can I trust that you haven't removed my name and submitted this poem as > your own? > > That's it!!! I will never write another song, another sonnet, or even haiku. > > I am finish, done, through trying to prove my creative abilities, my > remarkable genius and exceptional originality. > > On the other hand, if I edit the last two lines, would you reconsider? > > I really need to have this one poem published. I'm trying to feed five > pre-school age children and earn enough to pay medical expenses for my dear > great aunt and for two tickets to see Bob Dylan live. > > This poem is a dedication to all women, everywhere who have ever been > ignored and abused by avid arm-chair sports addiction. I feel this speaks > to the people, in a way that no other poem has ever done. It is > motivational, creative and most inspiring. It is a poem that touches the > very soul. > > I also think you should be aware that this poem was selected for publication > by Famous Poets and their affiliates. I turned them down, to submit solely > to your unique and artistic publication. A publication that is admired > world-wide. Almost anyone would give their eye teeth to be published in your > journal, but I? I can only offer you the best poem I have ever written. > > Oh, I would also like for you to mention, somewhere, that my inspiration, > for this poem, came from a poet known only as Bob. You could probably put > that in small print. THANKS!!!! :) > > I would appreciate your reconsideration and timely response. > > Kind regards, > > Deborah Russell > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: James Cervantes > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:56:42 -0700 > > > Dear Deborah Russell: Though your poem captivated us initially, we must > turn it down due to the last two lines, which is as far as we read. > > - Editors, The Arizonaire > > Deborah Russell wrote: > > > > This is the actual copy (I hope by posting it to this list it will still > > qualify for the New Yorker.) > > > > Sparrow > > > > This is just to say... > > it isn't all about > > softball > > sometimes it has more > > to do with speed and > > distance. > > And let that > > be a warning > > to you, or > > a lesson for you. > > Mark my words. > > Some people > > don't know how > > to put the sheath > > back on > > an umbrella. > > They only know > > how > > to > > pull it off. > > Now - > > I'm curiously aroused - > > my attention span > > is shorter than the > > winter solstice. > > It must be spring ! > > A white-breasted nuthatch > > sings gaily in my uterus > > and begins to spin, > > dancing like Fred Astaire. > > > > deborah (professional sparrow poemist - no poem too large or too small. > all > > work > > guaranteed, at least, for thirty days.) russell > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "K. Paul Mallasch" > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 Bob - > > > > It was a baseball poem, wasn't it? ;) > > > > -kpaul > > > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Bob Grumman wrote: > > > > > I'm not going to tell YOU where and when I submit stuff, anymore, > > Deborah. > > > (And I poured my soul into that poem of mine, which no one will now > see!) > > > > > > disconsolately, Bob G. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Deborah Russell" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:08 AM > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > > > > > > > > > Bob, my poem will be published, just look at what they sent to me, > > > > personally : > > > > > > > > ..."This email confirms our receipt of your poetry submission. > Please > > take > > > > note of today's date. The poetry department is small, but we will > read > > > > submissions within a six-week period. If you have not heard from us > > after > > > > six weeks, please assume that your work has not been accepted for > > > > publication. Due to the volume of submissions, we are unable to > > respond > > > > except to confirm acceptance of > > > > work. Many thanks." > > > > > > > > If that isn't a good sign, then I don't know what it is. I'm > > practically > > > on > > > > a first name basis with what's his name. Sorry Bob, but my poem is > so > > > much > > > > better than your's... or was that one I took from you?... anyway, it > > has > > > to > > > > be better than what you sent. > > > > > > > > > > > > Deborah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > > From: "Bob Grumman" > > > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? > > > > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:20:18 -0400 > > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu ([128.173.51.243]) by > > > mc6-f9.law1.hotmail.com > > > > with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:23:25 > -0700 > > > > Received: from wiz.cath.vt.edu (mailman at localhost [127.0.0.1])by > > > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCI7ST005568;Fri, 13 > > Jun > > > > 2003 08:18:07 -0400 > > > > Received: from [205.161.234.5] (smtp.nut-n-but.net > [205.161.234.5])by > > > > wiz.cath.vt.edu (8.12.7/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h5DCHmST005555for > > > > ; Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:17:48 -0400 > > > > Received: from nut-n-but.net (205.161.239.5) by [205.161.234.5] with > > ESMTP > > > > (Eudora Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for > ; > > Fri, > > > > 13 Jun 2003 08:22:51 -0400 > > > > Received: from j1c1k6 (205.161.239.64) by nut-n-but.net with SMTP > > (Eudora > > > > Internet Mail Server 3.1.4) for ; Fri, > 13 > > Jun > > > > 2003 08:21:40 -0400 > > > > X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRigLaEiTQQBlDPU44G8LMD9u > > > > Message-ID: <000d01c331a6$28306be0$f9f6fea9 at j1c1k6> > > > > References: <20030613111832.52245.qmail at web41210.mail.yahoo.com> > > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > > > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > > > > Sender: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > Errors-To: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > X-BeenThere: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 > > > > Precedence: bulk > > > > List-Help: > > > > List-Post: > > > > List-Subscribe: > > > > > > > > > > , > > est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=subscribe> > > > > List-Id: NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views > > > > > > > > List-Unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > , > > est at wiz.cath.vt.edu?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > List-Archive: > > > > Return-Path: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2003 12:23:25.0238 (UTC) > > > > FILETIME=[964BAD60:01C331A6] > > > > > > > > One reason is an silly article in the NYer on Gertrude Stein that > led > > to a > > > > discussion--I guess at the poetics discusiion group although I > thought > > > here, > > > > too. A lot of people including me expressed a low opinion of the > > NYer's > > > > poetry and poetry criticism. I believe deluging the NYer with bad > > poems > > > is > > > > an act of sabotage against an enemy of poetry. My poem, however, is > > > > terrific. I expect to make a mint from it--if nobody at the NYer > > steals > > > it. > > > > > > > > --Bob G. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet > > > > Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide > > Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > > > Deborah Elizabeth Russell, Artist/Poet > > Post Poems | Inside | Cityslide > Shadow Poetry | Parallels Words For The Wind > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From hruggier at localnet.com Fri Jun 13 14:40:19 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:40:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] New Yorker Poems References: Message-ID: <3EEA1A93.91C8BB49@localnet.com> What about the nonglossy American Poetry Review? David Graham wrote: > I think the poetry in *The New Yorker* has been such a fat, tempting target > for so long that it's easy not to even look any more. And to assume, > despite some evidence to the contrary, that all the poems printed are > genteel flower-petals nestled amid the perfume and luxury car ads. > > Naturally the poems printed in such a glossy general interest mag are not > going to be to the taste of all, and definitely won't please readers for > whom "mainstream" is by definition a term of derision. But if you add up > the yearly crop of poems they publish (2 or 4 each week) I think that the > result would compare reasonably well with the contents of most mainstream > quarterlies--a lot of annoyingly competent tepid stuff in various period > styles, yes, but a good handful of winners in the mix. > > Is there any glossy mag that does better? > > Beauty > > There she was on "Entertainment Tonight." > Someone had caught a glimpse of Bardot > after all these years. Brigitte Bardot > running through the trees, across a meadow, > a dog running with her. The hair still long. > Then another part, showing her on the patio, > aged. (Sun-damaged, we say.) The violation > of beauty never happens just once. > When my father heard that his beloved dog > had chased and killed the rancher's sheep, > he went right out and shot it. Because, > he said, once they ran with the pack > and tasted blood it would never stop. > > --Linda Gregg. *The New Yorker* 25 March 2002. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From chris at chrislott.org Fri Jun 13 14:40:12 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:40:12 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why Send Sparrow Poems to New Yorker? kpaul References: Message-ID: <007901c331db$3c692b30$5b15e589@TECH> I've never understood the problem with the New Yorker. There is always at least one interesting article on politics or some strange character out there, and sometimes interesting criticism. Fiction and poetry is uneven, but I usually skip those anyway. c From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 13 19:44:04 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:44:04 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] slimebag alert Message-ID: <3EEA61C4.67890D16@earthlink.net> If you can follow the clues provided by e-mail protocol, you'll see that Aarone ~*~M~*~ did a bulk submission to the editors indicated in the cc line. I replied to Aarone ~*~M~*~ with "This is not the way it's done. I'm trashing both messages." Then, apparently, Aarone ~*~M~*~ copied my message and sent it to The Rose & Thorn Literary Ezine, which apparently takes anything appearing in their inbox. I've written to The Rose & Thorn Literary Ezine explaining what happened, saying I did not submit anything to them, and that Aarone ~*~M~*~ seemed to be perpetrating a fraud. Anyway, wanted to alert you to this. - Jim Poetry Editor wrote: > > Hello, > > Thank you for your submission to The Rose & Thorn Literary Ezine! > > We've received your work in good form and will hold it until it can be > reviewed by our editorial staff. A reply will be forthcoming, but please be > patient. We receive numerous submissions to this ezine. > > In the meantime, your continued support and participation at The Rose & > Thorn website is greatly appreciated. Feel free to browse the site and enjoy > the resources and literary works featured. > > Announcements about the zine are found in our newsletter. If you are not > already subscribed to our free newsletter, you can sign up at: > > www.theroseandthornezine.com > We'd love to have you join us! > > Best Regards, > Poetry Staff > The Rose & Thorn > www.theroseandthornezine.com > > >From: James Cervantes > >Reply-To: jvcervantes at earthlink.net > >To: Aarone ~*~M~*~ > >CC: baronr at worldnet.att.net, submissions at 3rdmuse.com, info at zuzu.com, > >wopassage at aol.com, garydawg at email.msn.com, woc-iris at cms.mail.virginia.edu, > >tomjones1965 at juno.com, whimperbang at lycos.com, editor at webdreamer.com, > > editor at vlqpoetry.com, submissions at wordsinhere.com, > > editor at uslatinoreview.org, editors at twolines.com, levitation456 at webtv.net, > >brame at gloria-brame.com, theacorn at visto.com, poetry at tarpaulinsky.com, > >taproot10 at aol.com, poetry at sunnyoutside.com, editor at sspoetry.net, > >vvawai at oz.net, poetry at stickmanreview.com, editor at spireweb.org, > > spectrumreview at yahoo.com, poet at shaw.ca, jenelow at utdallas.edu, > > mail at sneerzine.com, ethan at slope.org, SkylineEditor at aol.com, > > danielsendecki at hotmail.com, SKYEARTH1 at aol.com, scrivenermag at hotmail.com, > >poetryeditor at hotmail.com, mar62451 at aol.com, submit at roguescholars.com, > > tdenyer at ntlworld.com, rioarts at angelfire.com, g8rfan at webpipe.net, > > SplitterRandolph at fhda.edu, rbr at wtp62.com, ravenchr at speakeasy.org, > >qquarter at post.queensu.ca, david.pike at virgin.net, editor at procreation.org > >Subject: Re: Poems for submission to be published > >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:53:25 -0700 > > > >This is not the way it's done. I'm trashing both messages. > > > >Aarone ~*~M~*~ wrote: > > > > > > Hello.Below are NINE poems I have written.I would really like to get > > > them published.I have had 3 poems published already,in the Poems > > > Anthology 2003,A Celebration Of Young Poets and in the local newspaper > > > YOUTHINK.Please let me know what you think of them.It would mean a lot > > > to me to get them published. > > > > > > > > > > > > Today > > > Smiles float round the room > > > Beams of sunlight burst about > > > A day like today is rather rare > > > We should laugh and shout > > > A happy day is a great day > > > A great day is the best > > > So let?s catch this day > > > And treat it > > > With much due respect > > > > > > Animailia > > > Who?said the owl > > > Who?said the bear > > > Who?said the turtle > > > Who?said the hare > > > Why?said the tree frog > > > Why?Said the goose > > > Why?said the chicken > > > Why?said the moose > > > Who?Why?Nobody understands!said the owl > > > I might cry! > > > I was only hooting! > > > I was tooting! > > > My beak went a-looting! > > > Nobody Understands! > > > Honey > > > Someday I'll search far and wide > > > As you run and try to hide > > > I will look everywhere > > > I'll go to places anywhere > > > To try and find you > > > While the sky goes from blue to black > > > I try to get my honey back > > > And as I find you I will ask > > > Why this was such a hard task > > > To get my honey back > > > > > > Little Lulu > > > Little Lulu went to the store > > > With a ten dollar bill > > > She tripped over a crack in the door > > > And boy did she wail! > > > She said > > > My knee hurts,My stomach hurts > > > And I have an ulcer > > > Please hurry > > > and check my pulse-r! > > > They checked her pulse > > > And fixed her ulcer > > > And sewed up her knee and took care of her aches! > > > But do you know what? > > > Little Lulu was a fake! > > > > > > The Sandwich > > > Olives,Pickles,Carrots and cheese > > > Dust and mold that make me sneeze! > > > Cucumber,mayo,mustard and ham > > > And lets add some strawberry jam > > > Yellow corn,and some green onions! > > > Hey,Lets put in some of Aunt Ruths bunyons! > > > Makin a sandwich 10 feet tall, > > > Then we'll eat it,i'f it doesnt F-F-Fall!!! > > > The Song Of A First Kiss Lived > > > We came closer > > > Our lips drew part > > > I knew this moment > > > Would not fall apart > > > How sweet the song > > > Of a first kiss is > > > The memory lasts > > > As long as you live > > > But when do you know > > > When it is right for you > > > You just know > > > When your dream comes true > > > The sweet of a song > > > Of a first kiss lived > > > Is a song that lasts > > > Forever as you bid. > > > Eastern Song > > > The song that devoured the east > > > Fly away with all the geese > > > Don't blame me for your looks > > > Keep checking out those books > > > Remember who you are > > > Remember your a star > > > Don't forget your roots behind you > > > When you to the city that will make you famous > > > So lets say goodbye,lets not cry > > > Go to the song that devoured the east > > > First Date > > > We snuggled closer > > > Our lips drew apart > > > But all of a sudden > > > I let out a fart! > > > He drew away > > > Looking at me > > > In disgust > > > And I knew > > > This date was > > > Fit to bust > > > What else could I do > > > To make it any worse > > > Then all of a sudden > > > My bladder burst! > > > I was so ashamed > > > I was to be blamed > > > For this awful date. > > > Why could someone > > > Have allowed me this fate? > > > Then I realized > > > As I stared into his eyes > > > Its not what you do > > > Because if you meet someone who > > > Loves you for who you are > > > They won't care > > > What you did, > > > Or the way you did your hair. > > > So remember my words > > > And if your date goes to the > > > Birds > > > Think about it. > > > > > > Wondergirl > > > Oh Wondergirl > > > Was s'posed to be > > > Wonderful and almighty. > > > She had good looks and she was a righty! > > > Long chestnut hair,read alot of books > > > But in her room there were spiders in all the nooks! > > > Her mother made her clean > > > and clean clean clean > > > And while she cleaned > > > She would Dream Dream Dream > > > And when her mom came up > > > she would scream scream scream! > > > Because Wondergirl's dream > > > had made her not clean! > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 13 20:28:16 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:28:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] slimebag alert References: <3EEA61C4.67890D16@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <017401c3320b$da376b80$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> Doesn't sound like a slimebag to me but a very young hopeful poet--possibly as young as nine or ten. I think you should have explained why it was not the way it is done. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 7:44 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] slimebag alert If you can follow the clues provided by e-mail protocol, you'll see that Aarone ~*~M~*~ did a bulk submission to the editors indicated in the cc line. I replied to Aarone ~*~M~*~ with "This is not the way it's done. I'm trashing both messages." Then, apparently, Aarone ~*~M~*~ copied my message and sent it to The Rose & Thorn Literary Ezine, which apparently takes anything appearing in their inbox. I've written to The Rose & Thorn Literary Ezine explaining what happened, saying I did not submit anything to them, and that Aarone ~*~M~*~ seemed to be perpetrating a fraud. Anyway, wanted to alert you to this. - Jim Poetry Editor wrote: > > Hello, > > Thank you for your submission to The Rose & Thorn Literary Ezine! > > We've received your work in good form and will hold it until it can be > reviewed by our editorial staff. A reply will be forthcoming, but please be > patient. We receive numerous submissions to this ezine. > > In the meantime, your continued support and participation at The Rose & > Thorn website is greatly appreciated. Feel free to browse the site and enjoy > the resources and literary works featured. > > Announcements about the zine are found in our newsletter. If you are not > already subscribed to our free newsletter, you can sign up at: > > www.theroseandthornezine.com > We'd love to have you join us! > > Best Regards, > Poetry Staff > The Rose & Thorn > www.theroseandthornezine.com > > >From: James Cervantes > >Reply-To: jvcervantes at earthlink.net > >To: Aarone ~*~M~*~ > >CC: baronr at worldnet.att.net, submissions at 3rdmuse.com, info at zuzu.com, > >wopassage at aol.com, garydawg at email.msn.com, woc-iris at cms.mail.virginia.edu, > >tomjones1965 at juno.com, whimperbang at lycos.com, editor at webdreamer.com, > > editor at vlqpoetry.com, submissions at wordsinhere.com, > > editor at uslatinoreview.org, editors at twolines.com, levitation456 at webtv.net, > >brame at gloria-brame.com, theacorn at visto.com, poetry at tarpaulinsky.com, > >taproot10 at aol.com, poetry at sunnyoutside.com, editor at sspoetry.net, > >vvawai at oz.net, poetry at stickmanreview.com, editor at spireweb.org, > > spectrumreview at yahoo.com, poet at shaw.ca, jenelow at utdallas.edu, > > mail at sneerzine.com, ethan at slope.org, SkylineEditor at aol.com, > > danielsendecki at hotmail.com, SKYEARTH1 at aol.com, scrivenermag at hotmail.com, > >poetryeditor at hotmail.com, mar62451 at aol.com, submit at roguescholars.com, > > tdenyer at ntlworld.com, rioarts at angelfire.com, g8rfan at webpipe.net, > > SplitterRandolph at fhda.edu, rbr at wtp62.com, ravenchr at speakeasy.org, > >qquarter at post.queensu.ca, david.pike at virgin.net, editor at procreation.org > >Subject: Re: Poems for submission to be published > >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:53:25 -0700 > > > >This is not the way it's done. I'm trashing both messages. > > > >Aarone ~*~M~*~ wrote: > > > > > > Hello.Below are NINE poems I have written.I would really like to get > > > them published.I have had 3 poems published already,in the Poems > > > Anthology 2003,A Celebration Of Young Poets and in the local newspaper > > > YOUTHINK.Please let me know what you think of them.It would mean a lot > > > to me to get them published. > > > > > > > > > > > > Today > > > Smiles float round the room > > > Beams of sunlight burst about > > > A day like today is rather rare > > > We should laugh and shout > > > A happy day is a great day > > > A great day is the best > > > So let's catch this day > > > And treat it > > > With much due respect > > > > > > Animailia > > > Who?said the owl > > > Who?said the bear > > > Who?said the turtle > > > Who?said the hare > > > Why?said the tree frog > > > Why?Said the goose > > > Why?said the chicken > > > Why?said the moose > > > Who?Why?Nobody understands!said the owl > > > I might cry! > > > I was only hooting! > > > I was tooting! > > > My beak went a-looting! > > > Nobody Understands! > > > Honey > > > Someday I'll search far and wide > > > As you run and try to hide > > > I will look everywhere > > > I'll go to places anywhere > > > To try and find you > > > While the sky goes from blue to black > > > I try to get my honey back > > > And as I find you I will ask > > > Why this was such a hard task > > > To get my honey back > > > > > > Little Lulu > > > Little Lulu went to the store > > > With a ten dollar bill > > > She tripped over a crack in the door > > > And boy did she wail! > > > She said > > > My knee hurts,My stomach hurts > > > And I have an ulcer > > > Please hurry > > > and check my pulse-r! > > > They checked her pulse > > > And fixed her ulcer > > > And sewed up her knee and took care of her aches! > > > But do you know what? > > > Little Lulu was a fake! > > > > > > The Sandwich > > > Olives,Pickles,Carrots and cheese > > > Dust and mold that make me sneeze! > > > Cucumber,mayo,mustard and ham > > > And lets add some strawberry jam > > > Yellow corn,and some green onions! > > > Hey,Lets put in some of Aunt Ruths bunyons! > > > Makin a sandwich 10 feet tall, > > > Then we'll eat it,i'f it doesnt F-F-Fall!!! > > > The Song Of A First Kiss Lived > > > We came closer > > > Our lips drew part > > > I knew this moment > > > Would not fall apart > > > How sweet the song > > > Of a first kiss is > > > The memory lasts > > > As long as you live > > > But when do you know > > > When it is right for you > > > You just know > > > When your dream comes true > > > The sweet of a song > > > Of a first kiss lived > > > Is a song that lasts > > > Forever as you bid. > > > Eastern Song > > > The song that devoured the east > > > Fly away with all the geese > > > Don't blame me for your looks > > > Keep checking out those books > > > Remember who you are > > > Remember your a star > > > Don't forget your roots behind you > > > When you to the city that will make you famous > > > So lets say goodbye,lets not cry > > > Go to the song that devoured the east > > > First Date > > > We snuggled closer > > > Our lips drew apart > > > But all of a sudden > > > I let out a fart! > > > He drew away > > > Looking at me > > > In disgust > > > And I knew > > > This date was > > > Fit to bust > > > What else could I do > > > To make it any worse > > > Then all of a sudden > > > My bladder burst! > > > I was so ashamed > > > I was to be blamed > > > For this awful date. > > > Why could someone > > > Have allowed me this fate? > > > Then I realized > > > As I stared into his eyes > > > Its not what you do > > > Because if you meet someone who > > > Loves you for who you are > > > They won't care > > > What you did, > > > Or the way you did your hair. > > > So remember my words > > > And if your date goes to the > > > Birds > > > Think about it. > > > > > > Wondergirl > > > Oh Wondergirl > > > Was s'posed to be > > > Wonderful and almighty. > > > She had good looks and she was a righty! > > > Long chestnut hair,read alot of books > > > But in her room there were spiders in all the nooks! > > > Her mother made her clean > > > and clean clean clean > > > And while she cleaned > > > She would Dream Dream Dream > > > And when her mom came up > > > she would scream scream scream! > > > Because Wondergirl's dream > > > had made her not clean! > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 13 21:21:52 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:21:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] slimebag alert References: <3EEA61C4.67890D16@earthlink.net> <017401c3320b$da376b80$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <3EEA78AF.917C1062@earthlink.net> I did, in a second reply. Then this happened. - Jim Bob Grumman wrote: > > Doesn't sound like a slimebag to me but a very young hopeful poet--possibly > as young as nine or ten. I think you should have explained why it was not > the way it is done. > > --Bob G. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Cervantes" > To: "new-poetry" > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 7:44 PM > Subject: [New-Poetry] slimebag alert > > If you can follow the clues provided by e-mail protocol, you'll see that > Aarone ~*~M~*~ did a bulk submission to the > editors indicated in the cc line. I replied to Aarone ~*~M~*~ > with "This is not the way it's done. I'm > trashing both messages." Then, apparently, Aarone ~*~M~*~ > copied my message and sent it to The Rose & > Thorn Literary Ezine, which apparently takes anything appearing in their > inbox. > > I've written to The Rose & Thorn Literary Ezine explaining what > happened, saying I did not submit anything to them, and that Aarone > ~*~M~*~ seemed to be perpetrating a fraud. > > Anyway, wanted to alert you to this. > > - Jim > > Poetry Editor wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Thank you for your submission to The Rose & Thorn Literary Ezine! > > > > We've received your work in good form and will hold it until it can be > > reviewed by our editorial staff. A reply will be forthcoming, but please > be > > patient. We receive numerous submissions to this ezine. > > > > In the meantime, your continued support and participation at The Rose & > > Thorn website is greatly appreciated. Feel free to browse the site and > enjoy > > the resources and literary works featured. > > > > Announcements about the zine are found in our newsletter. If you are not > > already subscribed to our free newsletter, you can sign up at: > > > > www.theroseandthornezine.com > > We'd love to have you join us! > > > > Best Regards, > > Poetry Staff > > The Rose & Thorn > > www.theroseandthornezine.com > > > > >From: James Cervantes > > >Reply-To: jvcervantes at earthlink.net > > >To: Aarone ~*~M~*~ > > >CC: baronr at worldnet.att.net, submissions at 3rdmuse.com, info at zuzu.com, > > >wopassage at aol.com, garydawg at email.msn.com, > woc-iris at cms.mail.virginia.edu, > > >tomjones1965 at juno.com, whimperbang at lycos.com, > editor at webdreamer.com, > > > editor at vlqpoetry.com, submissions at wordsinhere.com, > > > editor at uslatinoreview.org, editors at twolines.com, > levitation456 at webtv.net, > > >brame at gloria-brame.com, theacorn at visto.com, > poetry at tarpaulinsky.com, > > >taproot10 at aol.com, poetry at sunnyoutside.com, editor at sspoetry.net, > > >vvawai at oz.net, poetry at stickmanreview.com, editor at spireweb.org, > > > spectrumreview at yahoo.com, poet at shaw.ca, jenelow at utdallas.edu, > > > mail at sneerzine.com, ethan at slope.org, SkylineEditor at aol.com, > > > danielsendecki at hotmail.com, SKYEARTH1 at aol.com, > scrivenermag at hotmail.com, > > >poetryeditor at hotmail.com, mar62451 at aol.com, > submit at roguescholars.com, > > > tdenyer at ntlworld.com, rioarts at angelfire.com, g8rfan at webpipe.net, > > > SplitterRandolph at fhda.edu, rbr at wtp62.com, > ravenchr at speakeasy.org, > > >qquarter at post.queensu.ca, david.pike at virgin.net, > editor at procreation.org > > >Subject: Re: Poems for submission to be published > > >Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 12:53:25 -0700 > > > > > >This is not the way it's done. I'm trashing both messages. > > > > > >Aarone ~*~M~*~ wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello.Below are NINE poems I have written.I would really like to get > > > > them published.I have had 3 poems published already,in the Poems > > > > Anthology 2003,A Celebration Of Young Poets and in the local newspaper > > > > YOUTHINK.Please let me know what you think of them.It would mean a lot > > > > to me to get them published. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today > > > > Smiles float round the room > > > > Beams of sunlight burst about > > > > A day like today is rather rare > > > > We should laugh and shout > > > > A happy day is a great day > > > > A great day is the best > > > > So let's catch this day > > > > And treat it > > > > With much due respect > > > > > > > > Animailia > > > > Who?said the owl > > > > Who?said the bear > > > > Who?said the turtle > > > > Who?said the hare > > > > Why?said the tree frog > > > > Why?Said the goose > > > > Why?said the chicken > > > > Why?said the moose > > > > Who?Why?Nobody understands!said the owl > > > > I might cry! > > > > I was only hooting! > > > > I was tooting! > > > > My beak went a-looting! > > > > Nobody Understands! > > > > Honey > > > > Someday I'll search far and wide > > > > As you run and try to hide > > > > I will look everywhere > > > > I'll go to places anywhere > > > > To try and find you > > > > While the sky goes from blue to black > > > > I try to get my honey back > > > > And as I find you I will ask > > > > Why this was such a hard task > > > > To get my honey back > > > > > > > > Little Lulu > > > > Little Lulu went to the store > > > > With a ten dollar bill > > > > She tripped over a crack in the door > > > > And boy did she wail! > > > > She said > > > > My knee hurts,My stomach hurts > > > > And I have an ulcer > > > > Please hurry > > > > and check my pulse-r! > > > > They checked her pulse > > > > And fixed her ulcer > > > > And sewed up her knee and took care of her aches! > > > > But do you know what? > > > > Little Lulu was a fake! > > > > > > > > The Sandwich > > > > Olives,Pickles,Carrots and cheese > > > > Dust and mold that make me sneeze! > > > > Cucumber,mayo,mustard and ham > > > > And lets add some strawberry jam > > > > Yellow corn,and some green onions! > > > > Hey,Lets put in some of Aunt Ruths bunyons! > > > > Makin a sandwich 10 feet tall, > > > > Then we'll eat it,i'f it doesnt F-F-Fall!!! > > > > The Song Of A First Kiss Lived > > > > We came closer > > > > Our lips drew part > > > > I knew this moment > > > > Would not fall apart > > > > How sweet the song > > > > Of a first kiss is > > > > The memory lasts > > > > As long as you live > > > > But when do you know > > > > When it is right for you > > > > You just know > > > > When your dream comes true > > > > The sweet of a song > > > > Of a first kiss lived > > > > Is a song that lasts > > > > Forever as you bid. > > > > Eastern Song > > > > The song that devoured the east > > > > Fly away with all the geese > > > > Don't blame me for your looks > > > > Keep checking out those books > > > > Remember who you are > > > > Remember your a star > > > > Don't forget your roots behind you > > > > When you to the city that will make you famous > > > > So lets say goodbye,lets not cry > > > > Go to the song that devoured the east > > > > First Date > > > > We snuggled closer > > > > Our lips drew apart > > > > But all of a sudden > > > > I let out a fart! > > > > He drew away > > > > Looking at me > > > > In disgust > > > > And I knew > > > > This date was > > > > Fit to bust > > > > What else could I do > > > > To make it any worse > > > > Then all of a sudden > > > > My bladder burst! > > > > I was so ashamed > > > > I was to be blamed > > > > For this awful date. > > > > Why could someone > > > > Have allowed me this fate? > > > > Then I realized > > > > As I stared into his eyes > > > > Its not what you do > > > > Because if you meet someone who > > > > Loves you for who you are > > > > They won't care > > > > What you did, > > > > Or the way you did your hair. > > > > So remember my words > > > > And if your date goes to the > > > > Birds > > > > Think about it. > > > > > > > > Wondergirl > > > > Oh Wondergirl > > > > Was s'posed to be > > > > Wonderful and almighty. > > > > She had good looks and she was a righty! > > > > Long chestnut hair,read alot of books > > > > But in her room there were spiders in all the nooks! > > > > Her mother made her clean > > > > and clean clean clean > > > > And while she cleaned > > > > She would Dream Dream Dream > > > > And when her mom came up > > > > she would scream scream scream! > > > > Because Wondergirl's dream > > > > had made her not clean! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 13 21:54:38 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:54:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] slimebag alert References: <3EEA61C4.67890D16@earthlink.net> <017401c3320b$da376b80$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> <3EEA78AF.917C1062@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <018901c33217$eb95b740$f9f6fea9@j1c1k6> > I did, in a second reply. Then this happened. > > - Jim Hmmm. Then I guess I hope the poet doesn't know how to submit to my press, The Oblong Kazoo. (I still think she's very young.) --Bob G. From ccooley at overdomain.com Wed Jun 11 20:21:20 2003 From: ccooley at overdomain.com (Crisman Cooley) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:21:20 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Pollock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ...I can be with you with Dadaism, and yes Jarry! I dislike the fact > you leave Pollock out. Maybe Duchamp fits better with poetry and Pollock > more with color and art, tangible visual thickness, this could be > a reason. Anny, I like Pollock too and I think what he did is amazing. I meant that I don't know whether his work retains the power to change the course of poetry any more than it has. > A poem I wrote and liked more last year than now, still an homage - > > jackson pollock > > i know this dripping of yours Thanks for posting your poem. From JforJames at aol.com Sat Jun 14 19:01:27 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:01:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Baseball as metaphor for poetry Message-ID: <197.1bc439f3.2c1d0347@aol.com> In a message dated 6/12/03 9:11:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tadrichards at prodigy.net writes: > Bury me next to Marilyn > Marilyn Monroe > She's been lonely far too long > And I know she needs her Joe Couplet Elegy (After Eliot) For Joltin? Joe In the barroom men come and go Talking of DiMaggio. From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Jun 15 02:54:36 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:54:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Pollock References: Message-ID: <006c01c3330a$fc29e740$67607550@anny> Thank you for your answer, I am heading out for a walk straight up the mountains, will think of Pollock and see if I can add anything to your consideration, a good Sunday to you and all, anny From: "Crisman Cooley" To: > > ...I can be with you with Dadaism, and yes Jarry! I dislike the fact > > you leave Pollock out. Maybe Duchamp fits better with poetry and Pollock > > more with color and art, tangible visual thickness, this could be > > a reason. > > Anny, I like Pollock too and I think what he did is amazing. I meant that I > don't know whether his work retains the power to change the course of poetry > any more than it has. > > > A poem I wrote and liked more last year than now, still an homage - > > > > jackson pollock > > > > i know this dripping of yours > > Thanks for posting your poem. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Sun Jun 15 17:02:13 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:02:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ai's Guadalajara Hospital Message-ID: <1a2.163ca385.2c1e38d5@aol.com> In a message dated 6/12/03 4:31:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > Just happened to learn that this poem is in the collection *Killing Floor*. > Used to own it, but don't anymore. Nice poem, very cinematic in it's structure.... Guadalajara Hospital I watch the orderly stack the day's dead:: men on one cart, women on the other. You sit two feet away, sketching and drinking tequila. I raise my taffeta skirt above the red garter, take out the pesos and lay them beside you. I don't hold out on you. I shove my hand under my skirt, find the damp ten-dollar bill. You're on top. You call the shots. You said we'd make it here and we have. I make them pay for it. Later, we walk close, smoking form one cigarette until it's gone. I take your arm. Next stop end of the line. You pull me to you and push your tongue deep in my mouth. I bite it. We struggle. You slap me. I lean over the hood of the car. You clamp a handkerchief between your teeth, take the pesos and ten-dollar bill from you pocket and tear them up. Then you get in the car and I slide in beside you. When we finally cross the border, I stare out the back window. The Virgin Mary's back there in her husband Mendoza's workroom. She's sitting on a tall stool, her black lace dress rolled up above her knees, the red pumps dangling from her feet, while he puts the adz to a small coffin; a psalm of hammer and emptiness only the two of them understand. You say, sister, breathe with me. We're home, now, home. But I reach back, back through the window. Virgin Mary, help me. Save me. Tear me apart with your holy, invisible hands. From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Sun Jun 15 20:21:25 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Congratulations! Message-ID: <20030616002125.B3CCF48F8@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From sondheim at panix.com Sun Jun 15 23:19:33 2003 From: sondheim at panix.com (Alan Sondheim) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:19:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Philosophy Text: Philosophy of Poetry Message-ID: Philosophy Text: Philosophy of Poetry stood watching them out of the town; For men must work, and women must weep, And theres little to earn, and many to keep, Though the harbor bar be moaning. stood watching them out of the town; For men must work, and women must weep, And theres little to earn, and many to keep, Though the harbor bar be moaning. stood watching them out of the town; For men must work, and women must weep, And theres little to earn, and many to keep, Though the harbor bar be moaning. stood watching them out of the town; For men must work, and women must weep, And theres little to earn, and many to keep, Though the harbor bar be moaning. (a)musing 210 - bar harbor recap the bar meant leaving the safety of the harbor for the And may there be no moaning of the bar, When I sadness of farewell, When I embark; For though from out Cruising the harbor and sharing memories And may there be no moaning of the bar, When I put out to there be no sadness of farewell, When I embark For though Im see my Pilot face to face When I have crost the bar. Though I hear beneath my study, like a fluttering of wings When Care has cast her anchor in the harbor of a the sea is a mighty soul, forever moaning of some revel who can never change or chill; Though the fleeting star Keeps its steadfast watch oer the harbor bar. Our tour starts with a walk though the ornate entrance arch o'er a tempestuous sea The common harbor, where must may there be no moaning of the bar, When I Ocean, while the other looks across the harbor at the the site of the main restaurant, bar, theater, disco Though we met some good competition, it was a bit Lord Tennyson) Thus begins the beautiful poem Crossing the Bar. to depart as a ship prepared to leave the harbor. Though sad at bidding good-bye, we should be Though the Silver Bullet deserves a posthumous Goldie for its says of the prices at the coffee bar, where a watch the otters lolling in the harbor--folks, it Chapter Eleven: In the Bar by Mark Mcdonald 2001 Mark McDonald -- all I have to warn you though. two hours the sun was about to break over the harbor and she Sweaty seaman staggered from table to bar and back again took him to his father's resting place, though he didn They never did go to the harbor, as was surely tables are easy to come by, though we prefer one warm pudding makes fifteen sixty five, bar meals are The harbor below is black, our respectable friends in bed Now, though, the flock are dispersed, and the singer can example the famous moaning of the bar that portends disaster for ships leaving a harbor. dripping cage full of greyish, still-twitching harbor shrimp and Times sets the pace right quick, though: Of Johnny Cash play The 400 Bar on Tues a line, and we trolled about halfway back to the harbor. And may there be no moaning of the bar When I put For though from out our bourne of Time and Place The I went to a school near the bar, and by October But, even though I had that escape route in mind distance, but clearly visible, was New York harbor, with even While traditional nighttime jobs endure--bar pilots still With Portlands 3 am harbor lights visible When there are crises, though--a telecommunications snafu lit by the flickering neon of a bar sign Though it was difficult to believe, their escape had Inspector Minzo immediately ordered the harbor patrol to intercept bar is the sandbar at the entrance to a harbor; the moaning of the bar is the impossible to forget Sunset and evening star even though in another can even lift his head from the bar, six guys enter By then the Jolly Merger had cleared harbor and the I have a direct, though not unpleasant manner, which is as if stricken by a thunderbolt; And, though I died THERES a grayness over the harbor like fear on the a womans cry, And the deeps beyond the bar are moaning than sailors, Whereer he come or go, Though hell pilot face to face When I have crossed the bar. sailors. TRADE WINDS John Masefield In the harbor, in the Hasten to the harbor, he said to took it down as he raised the strong bar which held Though the hideous noises from the inner campong rose threateningly, the can even lift his head from the bar, six guys enter By then the Jolly Merger had cleared harbor and the I have a direct, though not unpleasant manner, which is can even lift his head from the bar, six guys enter By then the Jolly Merger had cleared harbor and the I have a direct, though not unpleasant manner, which is dripping cage full of greyish, still-twitching harbor shrimp and Times sets the pace right quick, though: Of Johnny Cash play The 400 Bar on Tues which within its - artificial - borders harbor many different with incisive precision, down to the last bar... Koonce, though, is obsessed with the detail, the downtown to the water slapping against the docks on the harbor shores. getting calls for faux painting, though. He'd been panhandling near the bar. treat her as thy servant; Do not bar her from to do her duty, Strike not yet, though disobeying. mother, Never, ye, my kindred spirits, Never harbor care, nor About half the moorings are unoccupied, though. mooring and over to an anchorage outside the harbor where there is We are getting a good solid 5-bar signal on Hasten to the harbor, he said to took it down as he raised the strong bar which held Though the hideous noises from the inner campong rose threateningly, the at once the ship went bang and, and we hit a sand bar. that said this ship we went on, it was sunk in that harbor. It wasnt sunk when we were on it though. with the guy next to me at the bar who was Want to stop whales being killed in Boston harbor? but managed to telling me all about his family even though I had Ocean, while the other looks across the harbor at the the site of the main restaurant, bar, theater, disco Though we met some good competition, it was a bit Hasten to the harbor, he said to took it down as he raised the strong bar which held Though the hideous noises from the inner campong rose threateningly, the being detained for weeks on end in this harbor or that has to be done with all that heat, though, and in gift for Bernadette, as it would set the bar too high was in the parking lot of the Yacht harbor, and a were clammering for a beer and Pesto looked as though he had At 1 pm we showed up at Callahans Bar and Boxing again, to me it seems as though theyre using a sledgehammer to crack walk to the exam i will eat a banana and a bar of chocolate toms pearl harbor article on Though I may strain at the ropes I am still held But death is the harbor-master who lifts the ropes Tennyson caught the picture in Crossing The Bar, when he together, ones Dakshina you accept, the other, though voluntarily paid He regarded money as danger or bar to spiritual But when I came to the harbor, I found Chapter Eleven: In the Bar. by Mark McDonald. I have to warn you though. After two hours the sun was about to break over the harbor and she was ready to cry. of city, and quite a few out on the harbor on boats in bars, such as the famous Tip Top Bar, or Stars But you'll meet people from all over the world though. Hasten to the harbor, he said to took it down as he raised the strong bar which held Though the hideous noises from the inner campong rose threateningly, the The Pipers Bar, was a bar with a Scottish theme. Some cabins do have a bathtub, though I didnt as you visit scenic ports and quaint harbor villages steeped Steve enjoyed sailing the big cruiser, though he usually Back in harbor she had demanded Steve's presence when so on their second excursion, to a coffee bar. Bay opened before them, with a low sand-bar shooting across the home which the Pilgrims had originally sought, and though neither the harbor nor the After about a week of this though, the ships captain owner and crew depart, or (c) 3 am Bar: Long, low awash, found at river mouths and harbor entrances, where treat her as thy servant; Do not bar her from to do her duty, Strike not yet, though disobeying. mother, Never, ye, my kindred spirits, Never harbor care, nor ___ From ron.silliman at verizon.net Mon Jun 16 07:56:20 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:56:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <000001c333fe$51e68f00$d0f88044@Dell> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Reading John Wieners' "Loss" & reading Ben Friedlander's chapbook Loss - When is a book a blog? What does the school of quietude mean when it says "more traditional"? Tracing traditions: post-avant poetries & the school of quietude Ange Mlinko: the school of quietude disappearing poets Chris Lott: being beset as a relic of tradition Michael Cross' in felt treeling Blogging with scholars A note on Salam Pax Google & Big Brother Other ways to gather poetry news Francis Ponge's Notebook in the Pine Woods Bruno Schulz - magic realism in Middle Europe Jack Collom The first post-"Poetry Wars" poet Tracking poetry news: Google News vs. Poetry Daily Jack Collom's early poetry Right there with Ashbery, Koch, Berrigan & Mac Low John Wieners early, John Wieners late - INSTANTER! Francis Ponge & the found form of the carnation Francis Ponge: a text that exists solely as memory http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Over 50,000 hits since September 2002 Blog of the Day award (12/6/02) Technorati's Top 50 Interesting Recent Blogs From JforJames at aol.com Mon Jun 16 08:59:26 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:59:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ai's Guadalajara Hospital Message-ID: The italics in lines 17 & 36-37 didn't come through with the posted text. I've inserted _understrikes_ to indicatie start & end of italics... > Guadalajara Hospital > > I watch the orderly stack the day's dead:: > men on one cart, women on the other. > You sit two feet away, sketching > and drinking tequila. > I raise my taffeta skirt above the red garter, > take out the pesos > and lay them beside you. > I don't hold out on you. > I shove my hand under my skirt, > find the damp ten-dollar bill. > You're on top. You call the shots. > You said we'd make it here and we have. > I make them pay for it. > > Later, we walk close, > smoking form one cigarette > until it's gone. I take your arm. > Next stop _end of the line_. You pull me to you > and push your tongue deep in my mouth. > I bite it. We struggle. You slap me. > I lean over the hood of the car. > You clamp a handkerchief between your teeth, > take the pesos and ten-dollar bill from you pocket > and tear them up. > Then you get in the car > and I slide in beside you. > > When we finally cross the border, > I stare out the back window. > The Virgin Mary's back there > in her husband Mendoza's workroom. > She's sitting on a tall stool, > her black lace dress rolled up above her knees, > the red pumps dangling from her feet, > while he puts the adz to a small coffin; > a psalm of hammer and emptiness > only the two of them understand. > You say, _sister, breathe with me. > We're home, now, home_. > But I reach back, back through the window. > Virgin Mary, help me. Save me. > Tear me apart with your holy, invisible hands. From JforJames at aol.com Mon Jun 16 11:32:30 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:32:30 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Muldoon & Avison win prizes Message-ID: <7e.39f94976.2c1f3d0e@aol.com> Paul Muldoon Wins Griffin Poetry Prize Fri Jun 13,11:44 AM ET TORONTO - Pulitzer Prize winner Paul Muldoon has won the Griffin Poetry Prize for his collection, "Moy Sand and Gravel." The judges praised "Moy Sand and Gravel" as a "merry dance," full of stories and cradle songs, nursery rhymes, riddles and prayer. "His elegies and love songs are among the finest of our times," the judges concluded. Muldoon, 51, was born in Northern Ireland and now teaches creative writing at Princeton University. He said at Thursday night's award ceremony that the Griffin Prize, worth $30,000 and established three years ago, "already ... has a large profile and I think it will grow." Muldoon won the International Griffin. Margaret Avison won the Canadian prize for her book, "Concrete and Wild Carrot." Avison, 85, took the stage aided by a cane to accept the award, which also brought a $30,000 prize. Her citation said the book of poetry was "an occasion of beauty" and described Avison as a national treasure. The two winners will be invited to read at this year's Edinburgh International Book Festival on Aug. 17. From JforJames at aol.com Mon Jun 16 11:44:15 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:44:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Margaret Avison Message-ID: <1e9.af907e8.2c1f3fcf@aol.com> http://www.library.utoronto.ca/canpoetry/avison/ Sometimes it seems we're blind when it comes to the poetry produced by our northern neighbors. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Jun 16 12:14:04 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:14:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Muldoon & Avison win prizes References: <7e.39f94976.2c1f3d0e@aol.com> Message-ID: <003901c33422$4f1deec0$29a7fea9@j1c1k6> Unfeasible idea for an experiment in Poetry Prize Sociology: someone gets 500 poets considered to be reasonably good at their art secretly to send him $100 apiece. With the money, he establishes and announces a Poetry competition. He selects the name of one of the 500 poets who sent him money randomly as the first year's prize winner. Only the entrants know the competition was an intentional lottery. He announces the winner and sends him the money. He sends out press releases that he wrote before he knew the name of the winner. Questions to be answered: would the mass media report the winner of the competition? I say they definitely would because of the $50,000 first prize. More interesting question: how many later grants or prizes would the winner win? I say at least a few because it would appear that most awards-bestowing organizations seem to work from a list of previous grants or prize winners when selecting someone to give their grant or prize. Or act as though they do. --Bob G. From JforJames at aol.com Mon Jun 16 12:28:39 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:28:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 46 (2003) Message-ID: <16e.200c74fc.2c1f4a37@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:29:20 -0400 From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 46 (2003) Diane Raptosh Monogamy | The Information Age | Condition Interior Design | Everything | The Mother of Her Second Daughter | The Diva Regina's Soliloquy Diane Raptosh has published two books of poems, LABOR SONGS (Guernica 1999) and JUST WEST OF NOW (Guernica 1992). Her poems have also been published widely in magazines in the U.S. and Canada. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark at unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark From JforJames at aol.com Mon Jun 16 18:30:43 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:30:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] THE BIG PARTY FOR SMALL PUBLISHERS Message-ID: <1a8.15b7a0d0.2c1f9f13@aol.com> THE BIG PARTY FOR SMALL PUBLISHERS (double click above) Council of Literary Magazines and Presses Celebrates 35 Years @ Paula Cooper Gallery / Presented by 192 Books Co-hosts: JEN BLUESTEIN/SARAH BURNES/ELIZABETH BOGNER/MARIE BROWN SARAH CRICHTON/TAD FLORIDIS/ELIZABETH GAFFNEY/DAVID GATES/KIMIKO HAHN ADAM HASLETTJUDY HOTTENSEN/GERALD HOWARD/GEOFF KLOSKE/JUDITH KRUG/ JONATHAN LETHEM/GLENNA LUSCHEI/DAVID LYNN/PETER MAYER/FIONA MCCRAE SEAN MCDONALD/JENNY MEYER/SHEILA MURPHY/SARA NELSON/ETHAN NOSOWSKY EUGENA PILEK/CONSTANCE B.SAYRE/IRA SILVERBERG/MOLLY STERN/PAUL YAMAZAKI (List in formation) Co-sponsors: Akashic Books, Alice James Books/BOMB CROWD/Curbstone/FC2/Feminist Press/Four Way Books/Good Foot jubilat/One Story/Open City/Other Press/The Paris Review Sarabande Books/Soft Skull Press/Tupelo Press (List in formation) CLMP promotes vitality and variety in the literary culture by serving independent literary publishing through technical assistance and advocacy. June 19th, 2003 at 7PM The Paula Cooper Gallery @ 534 West 21st Street Co-sponsored by 192 Books A new independent bookstore in Chelsea 192 10th Avenue @ 21st Street Suggested tax-deductible contribution: $60 ($40/employees of literary publishers, nonprofits, or under 35) Double click here to RSVP or make a tax-deductible contribution or RSVP to 212. 741. 9110 or jkoester at clmp.org -- Katherine Sarkis Program Coordinator Council of Literary Magazines and Presses (CLMP) 154 Christopher Street, Suite 3C New York, NY 10014 P: (212) 741-9110 x 12 F: (212) 741-9112 ksarkis at clmp.org www.clmp.org From JforJames at aol.com Tue Jun 17 08:33:13 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:33:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address Message-ID: <1a5.157f6739.2c206489@aol.com> The power of poetry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- By Seamus Heaney Originally published June 16, 2003 The following are excerpts from a commencement address delivered by the Nobel laureate poet at Emory University in Atlanta on May 12.: Acts of coldly premeditated terror such as those of Sept. 11, carefully premeditated acts of war such as the campaign in Iraq - these things have had a quality of mirage about them. We experienced them partly as the undeniable facts of day-to-day life, but partly also as some kind of ominous foreboding, as if we were walking in step with ourselves in an immense theater of dreams. These have been astounding events, yet our consciousness hasn't quite got the measure of them. Twin towers bursting into flame, human bodies falling like plummets, sorties of black-winged bombers taking off, as terrible and phantasmagorical as black-winged devils of the medieval mind, explosions appearing in the coordinates of a reconnaissance camera, looking as harmlessly white and fluttery as snowflakes. We know these things are real, but it is hard to bring their terrible reality home. If literature has a virtue, if those works of the human imagination that have been preserved by teachers and librarians for millennia have a virtue, it is surely their ability to make us realize fully and feelingly what is happening to us as individuals and as nations. As human beings, we need this realization, and one of the most observable proofs that we do need it was the quest, in the wake of the Sept. 11 atrocities, the general and urgent quest for poems that would be equal to that bewildering moment. Just then, people needed interior possessions that would keep standing, as it were, even as the rubble of the outer world kept falling around them. What they required was work that addressed itself to the place of ultimate suffering and decision in each and every one of us. That phrase, "the place of ultimate suffering and decision," was first used by the poet Ted Hughes, the late great poet laureate of England, whose papers now enrich the holdings of the Woodruff Library. All true and necessary poems arose from place, he said, and I believe that in the wake of Sept. 11, we all know what he meant. For the strange truth is this: It is at times of deepest public crisis that we are driven deepest into our private selves. The human condition can be understood as a series of immense historical climaxes and cataclysms, but equally and intimately, the human condition is experienced in the privacy and bewilderment of the individual consciousness. Which, for example, is the more important element in this morning's commencement? Is it the inner newness and strangeness of change that each graduate is experiencing, the sense of standing in a slightly new solitude at the threshold of a new life? Is it that, or is it the huge consoling familiarity of being together at Emory, of being carried along by a shared companionship, by the pageantry and community and solidarity of it all? Both things are important for a fully lived life and always will be, and the challenge you face in the year ahead is to maintain that balance between the call to be true to your mysteriously essential inner self and the need equally to operate capably and self-respectingly in the outer world of affairs. Again, Class of 2003, I do not want to unduly darken this brilliant day, but you graduate at a solemn moment, in the aftermath of grave suffering endured on your shores and grave action taken beyond them. And as citizens of this more somber world, you will be faced with the challenge to maintain both balance of mind and quickness of sympathy. To maintain what the poet Wilfred Owen called during the First World War "the eternal reciprocity of tears." Or to put it more simply, you will be challenged to be wise and to be good. To use the even more commanding words of W. B. Yeats, words that I always love to quote, you will be challenged to hold in a single thought reality and justice. And when you are so challenged, remember that others have been in the same predicament for millennia, so turn to them and in particular to those among them who offered their answers to the challenge: Turn, in other words, to the poets and writers and visionaries who took the strain and held the line and stood their ground in the hard-won, decisive place. And then, Class of 2003, go you in your turn and do likewise From FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com Mon Jun 16 07:38:53 2003 From: FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com (FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:38:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] DOUGLAS OLIVER, ALICE NOTLEY, EILEEN MYLES, EDWIN TORRES, CAROLINE BERGVALL & other GREAT contemporary poets! Message-ID: <9f.39dc81e4.2c1f064d@aol.com> FREQUENCY AUDIO JOURNAL: The Debut Compact Disc edited by Magdalena Zurawski & CAConrad Track 1: I Feel Tractor Track 2: Caroline Bergvall Track 3: Alice Notley Track 4: Gil Ott Track 5: Gil Ott Track 6: Frank Sherlock Track 7: Alan Gilbert Track 8: Michael Gizzi Track 9: Molly Russakoff Track 10: Ange Mlinko Track 11: Jenn McCreary Track 12: I Feel Tractor Track 13: Jeni Olin Track 14: Jeni Olin Track 15: Aaron Kunin Track 16: Eileen Myles Track 17: Jennifer Coleman Track 18: Tom Devaney Track 19: Edwin Torres Track 20: hassen Track 21: hassen Track 22: Ethel Rackin Track 23: Chris McCreary Track 24: Greg Fuchs Track 25: I Feel Tractor Tracks 26-30: FEATURED POET Douglas Oliver ------------- TO SUBSCRIBE TO FREQUENCY AUDIO JOURNAL SEND $11 FOR DEBUT ISSUE (FORTHCOMING IN FALL OF 2003) $20 FOR DEBUT AND ISSUE #2 (FORTHCOMING IN 2004) $150 OR MORE FOR A LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION (FREQUENCY'S LIFETIME, NOT YOURS) INSTITUTIONAL SUBSCRIPTIONS: $22 PER ISSUE MAKE YOUR CHECK OR MONEY ORDER PAYABLE TO CAConrad, AND MAIL TO: FREQUENCY P.O. Box 22521 Philadelphia, PA 19110 PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR SNAIL MAIL AND E-MAIL ADDRESSES WITH ALL SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION. From Thom424 at aol.com Tue Jun 17 09:01:56 2003 From: Thom424 at aol.com (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:01:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Help Locating Essay Message-ID: <21.30c91f96.2c206b44@aol.com> I'm looking for the first printing (or a subsequent reprinting) of an essay by David Wojahn entitled " 'Yes, But'...Some Notes on the New Formalism" (@ 1987?). Can anyone help me locate this essay? Thanks, Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 17 09:33:24 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:33:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address References: <1a5.157f6739.2c206489@aol.com> Message-ID: <00ae01c334d5$09d8fe00$bcb0fea9@j1c1k6> According ot Heaney: > If literature has a virtue, if those works of the human imagination that have > been preserved by teachers and librarians for millennia have a virtue, it is > surely their ability to make us realize fully and feelingly what is happening > to us as individuals and as nations. I utterly disagree; which is why, I guess, that Heany is a Nobelist--and I, on the other hand, a poet. (For me, the "virtue" of poetry is its ability to add to the world's store of beauty, in a way no other art can, not help morons get in touch with their feelings about what the newspapers and television are telling us.) --Bob G. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 17 09:40:49 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:40:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Latest Taxonomy News References: <1a5.157f6739.2c206489@aol.com> Message-ID: <00b801c334d6$10dd7360$bcb0fea9@j1c1k6> The latest issue of Modern Haiku was recently published. It was the one featuring an article of mine on taxonomy. So far the editor has had four responses to my article (which includes a chart): two thought it a parody; two found it "interesting but maddening," which the editor thought a positive, I a negative, response. Meanwhile, a good friend of mine in poetry (who composes the same sort of poetry I do) said that the essay finally convinced him that my literary criticism would be better without my taxonomy, that it was a defect. Result: I will not give up my taxonomy but will try to improve my presentation of it. I think the problem with my essay was that I introduced too many terms too quickly in my zeal to be thorough. --Bob G. From marcus at designerglass.com Tue Jun 17 10:07:26 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:07:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address In-Reply-To: <00ae01c334d5$09d8fe00$bcb0fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <3EEEE85E.11736.5D8F61@localhost> Seamus Heaney: > > If literature has a virtue, if those works of the human imagination that > have > > been preserved by teachers and librarians for millennia have a virtue, it > is > > surely their ability to make us realize fully and feelingly what is > happening > > to us as individuals and as nations. Bob Grumman: > I utterly disagree; which is why, I guess, that Heany is a Nobelist--and I, > on the other hand, a poet. > (For me, the "virtue" of poetry is its ability to add to the world's store > of beauty, in a way no other art can, not help morons get in touch with > their feelings about what the newspapers and television are telling us.) I agree with about 7/8 of Bob's comment. I'd have said "The virtue of poetry is its ability to add to the world's store of beauty, not help morons get in touch with their feelings, which is what newspapers and television are for. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From tadrichards at prodigy.net Tue Jun 17 10:02:24 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:02:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Muldoon & Avison win prizes References: <7e.39f94976.2c1f3d0e@aol.com> <003901c33422$4f1deec0$29a7fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <007701c334d9$14858c70$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> I think this would work. Let's try it. I'll volunteer to be the winning poet. It's a dark and ugly job, but someone's gotta do it. Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Muldoon & Avison win prizes > Unfeasible idea for an experiment in Poetry Prize Sociology: someone gets > 500 poets considered to be reasonably good at their art secretly to send him > $100 apiece. With the money, he establishes and announces a Poetry > competition. He selects the name of one of the 500 poets who sent him money > randomly as the first year's prize winner. Only the entrants know the > competition was an intentional lottery. He announces the winner and sends > him the money. He sends out press releases that he wrote before he knew the > name of the winner. > > Questions to be answered: would the mass media report the winner of the > competition? I say they definitely would because of the $50,000 first > prize. > > More interesting question: how many later grants or prizes would the winner > win? I say at least a few because it would appear that most > awards-bestowing organizations seem to work from a list of previous grants > or prize winners when selecting someone to give their grant or prize. Or > act as though they do. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 17 10:19:15 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:19:15 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address References: <3EEEE85E.11736.5D8F61@localhost> Message-ID: <001101c334db$7335e560$35e1fea9@j1c1k6> > Seamus Heaney: > > > If literature has a virtue, if those works of the human imagination that > > have > > > been preserved by teachers and librarians for millennia have a virtue, it > > is > > > surely their ability to make us realize fully and feelingly what is > > happening > > > to us as individuals and as nations. > > Bob Grumman: > > I utterly disagree; which is why, I guess, that Heany is a Nobelist--and I, > > on the other hand, a poet. > > (For me, the "virtue" of poetry is its ability to add to the world's store > > of beauty, in a way no other art can, not help morons get in touch with > > their feelings about what the newspapers and television are telling us.) > > I agree with about 7/8 of Bob's comment. Nevertheless, I refuse to retract any of it! --Bob G. > I'd have said "The virtue of poetry is its ability to add to the > world's store of beauty, not help morons get in touch with their > feelings, which is what newspapers and television are for. > > > Marcus Bales From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 17 10:21:08 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:21:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Muldoon & Avison win prizes References: <7e.39f94976.2c1f3d0e@aol.com> <003901c33422$4f1deec0$29a7fea9@j1c1k6> <007701c334d9$14858c70$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <001701c334db$b285c820$35e1fea9@j1c1k6> Sorry, Tad, but the drawing has to be random, from 500 slips of paper with my name on them. --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "TheOldMole" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Muldoon & Avison win prizes > I think this would work. Let's try it. I'll volunteer to be the winning > poet. It's a dark and ugly job, but someone's gotta do it. > > Tad > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Grumman" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 12:14 PM > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Muldoon & Avison win prizes > > > > Unfeasible idea for an experiment in Poetry Prize Sociology: someone gets > > 500 poets considered to be reasonably good at their art secretly to send > him > > $100 apiece. With the money, he establishes and announces a Poetry > > competition. He selects the name of one of the 500 poets who sent him > money > > randomly as the first year's prize winner. Only the entrants know the > > competition was an intentional lottery. He announces the winner and sends > > him the money. He sends out press releases that he wrote before he knew > the > > name of the winner. > > > > Questions to be answered: would the mass media report the winner of the > > competition? I say they definitely would because of the $50,000 first > > prize. > > > > More interesting question: how many later grants or prizes would the > winner > > win? I say at least a few because it would appear that most > > awards-bestowing organizations seem to work from a list of previous grants > > or prize winners when selecting someone to give their grant or prize. Or > > act as though they do. > > > > --Bob G. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From marcus at designerglass.com Tue Jun 17 10:31:40 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:31:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address In-Reply-To: <001101c334db$7335e560$35e1fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <3EEEEE0C.3882.73BFF7@localhost> > > Seamus Heaney: > > > > If literature has a virtue, if those works of the human imagination > that > > > have > > > > been preserved by teachers and librarians for millennia have a virtue, > it > > > is > > > > surely their ability to make us realize fully and feelingly what is > > > happening > > > > to us as individuals and as nations. > > > > Bob Grumman: > > > I utterly disagree; which is why, I guess, that Heany is a Nobelist--and > I, > > > on the other hand, a poet. > > > (For me, the "virtue" of poetry is its ability to add to the world's > store > > > of beauty, in a way no other art can, not help morons get in touch with > > > their feelings about what the newspapers and television are telling us.) Marcus Bales: > > I agree with about 7/8 of Bob's comment.<< Bob Grumman: > Nevertheless, I refuse to retract any of it!< Fine! I'll continue to agree until you do! Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Tue Jun 17 11:52:59 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:52:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Help Locating Essay Message-ID: In a message dated 6/17/2003 8:06:30 AM Central Standard Time, Thom424 at aol.com writes: > > I'm looking for the first printing (or a subsequent reprinting) of an essay > by David Wojahn entitled " 'Yes, But'...Some Notes on the New Formalism" (@ > 1987?). Can anyone help me locate this essay? > > Thanks, > > Thom Tammaro > Moorhead, MN This was, I believe, in the AWP Chronicle (or whatever it's called now). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Tue Jun 17 14:23:25 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:23:25 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Arvio's VISITS FROM THE SEVENTH, Message-ID: <126.2bdcec76.2c20b69d@aol.com> Subj: Sarah Arvio Date: 6/17/03 8:58:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: knopfpoetry at info.randomhouse.com (The Knopf Poetry Center) Sarah Arvio's VISITS FROM THE SEVENTH, available in paperback on June 19th, is a collection of poems that take the form of conversations between a woman and a throng of invisible presences--visitors, as she calls them--who counsel, challenge, cajole, and comfort her. Below, in "How I Yearn," we are privy to her thoughts about the visitors. ******************************************************* How I Yearn I had been missing them very badly, that day and that day and the next--and yet the solace they offered was imperfect, airborne and volatile. I invoked them, yes, often, in lieu of human contact. Not that they weren't human, just abstracted from humanness on the physical plane. But why had they deserted me? I knew the answer: for spurning them out of hand. But where, in that case, did they swirl off to? Did they rise higher, higher, higher and vanish into some upper ether or did they betrayingly visit someone else who might at that moment seem more receptive? Calling them back after a desertion was never simple: I had to turn my mood soft, bright, calm and dreamily attentive; then, after a time, they would slip back in, one by one, refiguring their spirals in those inevitable rows of seven. Would they, I once found the courage to ask, weave together and net the air for me, linking and looping their remembered limbs, to break softly my falling if I fell? Cradle me, oh cradle me, I whispered. That was not a service they could do, though. Life is so complicated for us here, so troublesome, really, that I wondered how they found theirs. Did they love it up there cutting their spirals into cold fronts and turning somersaults with the storms? Did they nestle cozy into their troughs of air, basking in the serene and glossy heights, the breathtaking vistas of blue-gray seas, the pink-tinted couldscapes, the high music-- Or did they, as we do, long for blankets and warm bodies? So I broached that question when they came soft-shoeing back in this time. "No memory, no thought," one lipped to me, "can stand in for the loss of a life of touch." Amen, I said, and that's the life I want. So I brushed the air to be rid of them. ******************************************************* From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Jun 17 14:31:00 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:31:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sarah Arvio's VISITS FROM THE SEVENTH, In-Reply-To: <126.2bdcec76.2c20b69d@aol.com> Message-ID: on 6/17/03 1:23 PM, JforJames at aol.com at JforJames at aol.com wrote: > the pink-tinted couldscapes, A typo or wordplay? --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From JforJames at aol.com Tue Jun 17 14:53:42 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:53:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address Message-ID: <17.3a964943.2c20bdb6@aol.com> In a message dated 6/17/03 10:03:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcus at designerglass.com writes: > > I utterly disagree; which is why, I guess, that Heany is a Nobelist--and I, > > on the other hand, a poet. > > (For me, the "virtue" of poetry is its ability to add to the world's store > > of beauty, in a way no other art can, not help morons get in touch with > > their feelings about what the newspapers and television are telling us.) > > I agree with about 7/8 of Bob's comment. > > I'd have said "The virtue of poetry is its ability to add to the > world's store of beauty, not help morons get in touch with their > feelings, which is what newspapers and television are for. Beauty seems to me a more limited a term than feeling, and surely a less important aspect of art-making at least in modern times. Are you reading "feeling" as if it were simply happy or sad? Certainly Heaney's speaking of poetry, when its uses the language capabilities to the fullest, as addressing a full complex of emotions, and all the subtleties and nuances entailed in the human response.. Finnegan From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 17 16:17:18 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:17:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address References: <17.3a964943.2c20bdb6@aol.com> Message-ID: <00cb01c3350d$74bd0ee0$35e1fea9@j1c1k6> > > > (For me, the "virtue" of poetry is its ability to add to the world's > store > > > of beauty, in a way no other art can, not help morons get in touch with > > > their feelings about what the newspapers and television are telling us.) SNIP of what Marcus said, which he can discuss if he wants to. > Beauty seems to me a more limited a term than feeling, > and surely a less important aspect of art-making at least > in modern times. Feeling exists without art. >Are you reading "feeling" as if it were > simply happy or sad? Yes and no. I think all feelings reduce to happy/sad. But I mean the gamut. >Certainly Heaney's speaking of poetry, > when its uses the language capabilities to the fullest, as > addressing a full complex of emotions, and all the subtleties > and nuances entailed in the human response. I was responding to the following statement of Heaney's: "If literature has a virtue, if those works of the human imagination that have been preserved by teachers and librarians for millennia have a virtue, it is surely their ability to make us realize fully and feelingly what is happening to us as individuals and as nations." I don't need a poet to make me realize what is happening to me as an individual. I want one to make me experience something beautiful that would not otherwise have happened for me. As for nations, they're for political scientists, sociologists, psychologists, historians, even journalists to explain--to those who give a damn. Heaney seems to be saying that what poetry is good for is merely utilitarianly facilitating self-understanding. He neglects entirely its ability to be something far beyond psychotherapy (which it--and beauty--may also have). It's a complex subject. I'm just thrusting my art for art's sake out against what I perceive as art for human betterment. I want exaltation not improvement. --Bob G. From grahamd at ripon.edu Tue Jun 17 17:07:11 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:07:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address In-Reply-To: <00ae01c334d5$09d8fe00$bcb0fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: Variation on Yeats The famous poet speaks; we disagree. That poet's but a dog! reports the flea. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 17 17:29:12 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:29:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address References: Message-ID: <010301c33517$7f3e11c0$35e1fea9@j1c1k6> > Variation on Yeats > > The famous poet speaks; we disagree. > That poet's but a dog! reports the flea. > > David Graham Variation on Variation on Yeats The famous poet speaks; we disagree. "How wrong you are--he's famous," says his flea. Bob Grumman From JforJames at aol.com Tue Jun 17 18:10:35 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 18:10:35 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog, June 13/03, the School of Q, etc. Message-ID: <1d7.badae7b.2c20ebdb@aol.com> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Reading Ron's blog 6/13 (& related posts), I guess I'm to understand that the new pejorative tag for the mainstream is "School of Quietude," whatever that's supposed to mean or whomever it is supposed to demean, as the case may be. The old favored term of disparagement was "official verse culture." Charles Bernstein owns the rights to that one. I confess I kind of want to be a part of something called School of Quietude? it appeals to me in Taoist sense of actionless thought, and I'm somewhat inclined to be a lotus eater. Speaking of rights, it seems Ron claims that the avant-garde owns the literary heritage or line that is traced back to Whitman and Dickinson. I don't disagree wiht him that both Whitman and Dickinson were well outside the mainstream in their day, but I think Ron misses the point about the mainstream: It co-opts, it steals (the fire), it drowns out and subsumes. It was Sandburg who wrote the introduction to Leaves in the early part of the last century. The mainstream has always had its progressive wing, ready to bring elements of the avant-garde (kicking & screaming at times, or after a respectful post-mortem period) in from the cold.. My last quibble with Ron's post is another somewhat obvious point. The avant-garde can't exist without the tension of an Establishment It must have something to resist. It's a co-dependent relationship. It's all well & good for the avant-garde to gripe about being locked out of this or that committee/prize/press by the nefarious forces of conservative versifiers, but the avant-garde should be careful what they wish for?.if you're in, then you're not out?and out is what you said you wanted or was best place to be. You can't have it both ways...no cake and eat it too, or no cake & bite the hand too. Then there is the concept of a poetic spectrum. (I would agree that harmonious co-existence is not possible on that spectrum, nor would it be a good thing for the art if some colors didn't bleed one into another or react against one another, sometimes violently (verbally, not physically one hopes). But the real problem is that the spectrum as an analogy for a range of poetic approaches/sensibilities which arepresent in a given age functions as a very flat map. (Or a taxonomy without the depth of a species census behind it.) A better analogy for comtemporary poetry would be a "bell curve"?in this mapping of a data set., the bulge (bloated as it may be, wallowing in public/private largesse, mutually masturbating, etc.) in the middle is the mainstream. Skewed to one end would be the formalists (traditional form, before someone goes there on me), both old and new, and on the other end skewed extremely toward some absolute dada (& data) endpoint of poetry would be the avant-garde. Biut to really map this data set correctly you would have to use more than two dimensions. Whose poet is Harryette Mullen's? Would you not need another dimension to give her credit for the important aspect of her work that's beholden to the African-American tradition? Finnegan From JforJames at aol.com Tue Jun 17 20:21:25 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 20:21:25 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address Message-ID: <1f0.b3e5a77.2c210a85@aol.com> In a message dated 6/17/03 4:20:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > I don't need a poet to make me realize what is happening to me as an > individual. I want one to make me experience something beautiful that would > not otherwise have happened for me. As for nations, they're for political > scientists, sociologists, psychologists, historians, even journalists to > explain--to those who give a damn. > > Heaney seems to be saying that what poetry is good for is merely > utilitarianly facilitating self-understanding. He neglects entirely its > ability to be something far beyond psychotherapy (which it--and beauty--may > also have). > > It's a complex subject. I'm just thrusting my art for art's sake out > against what I perceive as art for human betterment. I want exaltation not > improvement. > Bob, I think that the best poem always strike an emotional chord. There are poems we can admire that seem to exist in the rareified space of art-for-art's-sake, but they are few. (I generalize here...but let's get down to brass tacks and name poems that are valued, have been valued, will be valued, that are cut off from any emotion impetus... it's going to be a very short list.) Finnegan From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jun 18 07:58:20 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 07:58:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address References: <1f0.b3e5a77.2c210a85@aol.com> Message-ID: <007d01c33590$ea7980e0$6bc8fea9@j1c1k6> > Bob, I think that the best poem always strike an emotional chord. Sorry, I thought you would understand that that, for me, is understood. > There are poems we can admire that seem to exist in the rareified > space of art-for-art's-sake, but they are few. (I generalize here...but > let's get down to brass tacks and name poems that are valued, have > been valued, will be valued, that are cut off from any emotion impetus... > it's going to be a very short list.) > Finnegan I've defined and take for grant that "beauty" is that which causes a feeling of pleasure, an emotion. Moreover,the most beautiful objects (for me) are those which cause the largest, most complex (and mixed) feelings of pleasure. So you and I, I believe, agree that poems should appeal to the emotions. I take Heaney to be saying that poetry's value is in its alleged ability to teach us something about existence. (Like the meaning of the toppling of two big structures with a lot of people in them by a few psychotics, for Pete's sake.) Since he doesn't mention the need for poetry to be beautiful, I take it that that is not a concern for him. I want beauty. No reason that that should not include wisdom, but it needn't, for me. --Bob G. From marcus at designerglass.com Wed Jun 18 08:32:11 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:32:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address In-Reply-To: <17.3a964943.2c20bdb6@aol.com> Message-ID: <3EF0238B.21396.25F7BC@localhost> On 17 Jun 2003 at 14:53, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Beauty seems to me a more limited a term than feeling, > and surely a less important aspect of art-making at least > in modern times. Beauty in this context seems to me to stand for a contrivance that somehow selects and frames and, by selecting and framing, creates art where there was only perception and perhaps description before. > ... Certainly Heaney's speaking of poetry, > when it uses the language capabilities to the fullest, as > addressing a full complex of emotions, and all the subtleties > and nuances entailed in the human response.<< Well, so can philosophy on the one hand and slurred drunken sympathy on the other -- but that a piece of work is "addressing a full complex of emotions" is not enough to make it art. Art is artificial, a contrivance, a deliberate setting-out to select and frame perception, it seems to me -- it is not art, and not poetry, to murmur "Beautiful!" when one sees the sunrise or the Grand Canyon. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From JforJames at aol.com Wed Jun 18 09:14:42 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:14:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address Message-ID: <1d2.c374bf2.2c21bfc2@aol.com> In a message dated 6/18/03 8:01:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > Since he doesn't mention the need for poetry to be beautiful, > I take it that that is not a concern for him. I want beauty. No reason > that that should not include wisdom, but it needn't, for me. > Bob, I think it's evident in Heaney's poetry that he does value beauty to some degree...as well as thought, subtleties thought, and emotional resonance. I think though that "beauty" has a bit of a musty Romantic scent to it. It seems poets (& the artists in general) have struggled to show two things: Beauty where you least expect, which was part of futurism and realist impulses...veering away from the pastoral or aristocratic notions of beauty to urban/industrial or demotic notion of what is beauty. Secondly, that art can make seen (or heard), in a new or in more nuanced manner, many things that are ugly/repulsive or commonplace or beneath the standard of what had traditionally been seen as suitable subject artistic matter. Finnegan From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Jun 18 10:19:59 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 10:19:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address References: <1d2.c374bf2.2c21bfc2@aol.com> Message-ID: <00c901c335a4$b3d204e0$6bc8fea9@j1c1k6> > > Since he doesn't mention the need for poetry to be beautiful, > > I take it that that is not a concern for him. I want beauty. No reason > > that that should not include wisdom, but it needn't, for me. > > > Bob, I think it's evident in Heaney's poetry that he does > value beauty to some degree...as well as thought, subtleties > thought, and emotional resonance. Possibly. But does he consider it his ultimate aim, or even necessary? Anyway, I was addressing what he said. > I think though that "beauty" has a bit of a musty > Romantic scent to it. For many, it does. Not for me. It seems poets (& the artists in general) > have struggled to show two things: Beauty where you > least expect, which was part of futurism and realist > impulses...veering away from the pastoral or aristocratic > notions of beauty to urban/industrial or demotic notion > of what is beauty. Agreed. >Secondly, that art can make seen (or heard), > in a new or in more nuanced manner, many things that > are ugly/repulsive or commonplace or beneath the standard of > what had traditionally been seen as suitable subject artistic matter. > Finnegan Some of my favorite artists seem to do the latter but I would argue that what they get, when successful, is beauty. I admit to not being fully satisfied with my attempts to show that for certain forms of tragedy, however. Ergo: a continuing question. --Bob G. From chris at chrislott.org Wed Jun 18 12:13:31 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 08:13:31 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address References: <1a5.157f6739.2c206489@aol.com> <00ae01c334d5$09d8fe00$bcb0fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <007b01c335b4$93517380$6401a8c0@TRS80> Insight into one's self is necessary for any real insight into the world. In this way poetry, like other art, serves as a way to "open" people up by expanding not only their perceptions and providing grist for the mill, so to speak, but by the sharpening of the mind that comes from exploring an art form and really *thinking* about a work. Textual art has an advantage in this respect that most painting does not. Good poetry does these things while being beautiful, and allows us more possibility of apprehending other beautiful pieces of art. Bad poetry does only this (if anything at all). c From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Jun 18 14:04:08 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:04:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address References: <1f0.b3e5a77.2c210a85@aol.com> <007d01c33590$ea7980e0$6bc8fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <003d01c335c4$03da34c0$5b1c2dd5@anny> I agree with Bob especially when he says: I want beauty. No reason > that that should not include wisdom, but it needn't, for me. And if I murmur: "Beautiful" at a sunrise or sunset in the Grand Canyon, I know this is not a poem but it will give me an impression/input which will be transformed and one day give a poem, as naturally as the quickness of the vision received (re.: Marcus). I agree in part with James and his notion of futurism looking for beauty, I think that here the great part is played by a more analytical mind, especially in painting with the marvelously composed stroboscopic forms where movement is frozen in its vorticism, up to the detection of air parting at the passage of a car. There was a good exhibit in Rome a couple of years ago which gathered the most important representatives. Pollock's work, for example, reaches the evaluation of beautiful in me, thus has a value on my poetic development. Interesting thread. Anny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Grumman" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address > > Bob, I think that the best poem always strike an emotional chord. > > Sorry, I thought you would understand that that, for me, is understood. > > > There are poems we can admire that seem to exist in the rareified > > space of art-for-art's-sake, but they are few. (I generalize here...but > > let's get down to brass tacks and name poems that are valued, have > > been valued, will be valued, that are cut off from any emotion impetus... > > it's going to be a very short list.) > > Finnegan > > I've defined and take for grant that "beauty" is that which causes a feeling > of pleasure, an emotion. Moreover,the most beautiful objects (for me) are > those which cause the largest, most complex (and mixed) feelings of > pleasure. So you and I, I believe, agree that poems should appeal to the > emotions. > > I take Heaney to be saying that poetry's value is in its alleged ability to > teach us something about existence. (Like the meaning of the toppling of > two big structures with a lot of people in them by a few psychotics, for > Pete's sake.) Since he doesn't mention the need for poetry to be beautiful, > I take it that that is not a concern for him. I want beauty. No reason > that that should not include wisdom, but it needn't, for me. > > --Bob G. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From marcus at designerglass.com Wed Jun 18 14:39:01 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 14:39:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] excerpts from a Heaney's commencement address In-Reply-To: <007b01c335b4$93517380$6401a8c0@TRS80> Message-ID: <3EF07985.23657.175DCFC@localhost> On 18 Jun 2003 at 8:13, Chris Lott wrote: > Insight into one's self is necessary for any real insight into the world. In > this way poetry, like other art, serves as a way to "open" people up by > expanding not only their perceptions and providing grist for the mill, so to > speak, but by the sharpening of the mind that comes from exploring an art > form and really *thinking* about a work....<< Still, it seems to me, art is not required for real insight into oneself or the world; art is not required to expand perception or "open people up"; art is not required to sharpen the mind. Art is a particular sort of product of craft and the special use of such things as developing real insight into oneself of the world, or sharpening the mind. Art is an intentional activity; it is, in my view, not found by the audience without a volitional activity or artifact made by the artist. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From JackTar at aol.com Thu Jun 19 11:16:44 2003 From: JackTar at aol.com (JackTar at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:16:44 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award Message-ID: <14d.205d5245.2c232ddc@aol.com> Here is my latest chance for fame and fortune for only $595.00:-^) Note the tongue in cheek emoticon. This is so one doesn't think I'm baring my soul or in search of the elusive brass ring. They claim their last attendance was 2500 people. At $582.50 average cost that's close to 1.5 million less expenses. Not bad for the promoters. You; of course, are responsible for your travel and room expenses. Duncan > Dear Duncan, > > Because you requested that we notify you of important poetic events, I am > delighted to inform you that in just a few weeks, we will be honoring your > poetic accomplishments at poetry.com?s and the International Society of Poets? > Summer Convention and Symposium, to be held in the United States Capital, > Washington, D.C., from August 15-17, 2003. > > When you attend the Convention and Symposium, you will present your poetry > in front of your fellow poets from around the world (Our last convention was > celebrated by over 2500 poets from 58 countries worldwide!), and you will be > presented with your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Silver Award Cup. > > The Award is a magnificent work of art (a $200.00 value) that measures over > 11 inches across and over 17 inches high, handcrafted in silver, with your > name custom-engraved on a beautiful cherry wood base (see it here). I?m sure > it will merit a special place of pride in your home. Your award is so large > and heavy that you may wish to bring an extra suitcase to carry it home! > > And Duncan . . . there's much more . . . > > In recognition of your poetry presentation at this prestigious > International Symposium, we will also create and present to you a beautiful and colorful > Commemorative Award Medallion to honor your poetic dedication and > achievements. > > 36 POETS WILL SHARE $74,000.00 TOTAL IN PRIZES--INCLUDING > THE SINGLE LARGEST POETRY CASH PRIZE EVER AWARDED--$20,000.00! > > And don't forget the most lucrative amateur poetry contest ever! Your > contest entry poem can be written in any style, on any subject . . . and can be up > to 40 lines long. > > Just think . . . for this poem alone, you will have the opportunity to win > one of 36 cash and gift prizes to be awarded at the Symposium . . including a > Grand Prize of $20,000.00--the largest cash prize ever awarded in an amateur > poetry competition. There's also a Second Prize of $5,000.00, two Third > Prizes of all-expenses paid vacations for two, including a Caribbean cruise and a > trip to Cancun, Mexico, a Fourth Prize of $1,000.00, and six other cash > prizes of $500.00 each. World-renowned Pulitzer Prize-winning poet W.D.Snodgrass > and movie star Mickey Rooney will be with us to congratulate poets and > present the Grand Prize. > > Your society is also encouraging today's youth to develop and utilize their > poetic talents in a positive manner. This year we will award five $1,000.00 > cash scholarships to talented young poets attending the Symposium. > > Our editors and professors will also be searching for new poetic talent. > Twenty poets will be "discovered" in the contest reading sessions. These > winners will be awarded publishing or recording contracts that will generate > international exposure for their poetic artistry. > > In all, $74,000.00 in cash and prizes will be awarded at this single event! > > LIGHTS . . . CAMERA . . . ACTION! > > And that's still just the beginning . . . we've got three very special days > planned for you . . . ones you'll never forget! > > **You will be officially inducted as an honorary "International Poet of > Merit" for 2003. > > **You and your poetic achievements will be honored at two Gala Banquets and > Award Ceremonies. > > **You will enjoy dazzling entertainment shows created especially for you > featuring Hollywood living legend Mickey Rooney, members of the Rock and Roll > Hall of Fame, the Drifters, legendary Motown singing group, the Marvelettes, > plus other special surprise entertainers. These special command performances > will thrill and delight you. There will also be lots of other entertainment, > including Midnight Dance Parties on both Friday and Saturday nights! > > **Hollywood icon and legendary star of the silver screen, Mickey Rooney, > will entertain and inspire us throughout the weekend. > > **You will learn more about your craft in seminars, reading rooms, rap > sessions, and workshops, where you can read and discuss your poetry in informal > settings with other poets from all over the world. Back by popular demand are > the ISP rap rooms, our famous sunrise poetry readings, the ISP Coffee House, > the ISP Open Microphone Rooms, and workshops on how to fine-tune your poetic > talents. > > **You will have the rare opportunity to get up-close and personal with the > Pulitzer Prize-winning poet W.D. Snodgrass, Dr. Herbert Woodward Martin, > Mattie Stepanek, and Dr. Len Roberts, who will also be reading their own work. > > **You will participate in a fantastic international poetry competition > featuring 35 prizes totaling $74,000.00. A Grand Prize of $20,000.00, two > all-expenses paid vacations for two, including a Caribbean cruise and a trip to > Cancun, Mexico, 8 other cash prizes totaling $9,000.00, 10 poetry recording > contracts, 10 book publishing contracts, and 5 Young Poets Scholarship prizes will > be awarded at this single event. > > **You and your guests will also be eligible to win one of many door prizes, > valued at over $6,000.00. > > **You will make friendships that will last a lifetime and will return home > with wonderful memories, your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Silver Award > Cup, your Commemorative Award Medallion, and lots of other special gifts. > > DON'T BE LEFT OUT > > Don't miss this opportunity. Space is limited, and our Conventions > routinely sell out. Plan to join your fellow poets in the United States Capital, > Washington, D.C., August 15-17, 2003 for the poetic event of the year! I am also > looking forward to meeting you and celebrating the power and beauty of poets > and poetry! > > Sincerely, > Steve Michaels > International Society of Poets > Convention Chairperson > > Click here for more information. > > Click here to Register Now, or go to > https://www.poetry.com/poetscorner/register.asp?VIP=P2904902&SC=T131 > > P.S. I'm sending you this reminder since you previously requested to be > notified of poetry news by e-mail. If you no longer wish us to notify you of > poetic events that we believe may be of interest to you, please click here, or > go to http://www.poetry.com/nl/stopemail.asp. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Steve Michaels" Subject: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 19:42:48 -0400 Size: 15608 URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Jun 19 12:43:06 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:43:06 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award References: <14d.205d5245.2c232ddc@aol.com> Message-ID: <002401c33681$dc2fb120$611c2dd5@anny> jeeex, poor poets... sigh, a ----- Original Message ----- From: JackTar at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 5:16 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award Here is my latest chance for fame and fortune for only $595.00:-^) Note the tongue in cheek emoticon. This is so one doesn't think I'm baring my soul or in search of the elusive brass ring. They claim their last attendance was 2500 people. At $582.50 average cost that's close to 1.5 million less expenses. Not bad for the promoters. You; of course, are responsible for your travel and room expenses. Duncan Dear Duncan, Because you requested that we notify you of important poetic events, I am delighted to inform you that in just a few weeks, we will be honoring your poetic accomplishments at poetry.com?s and the International Society of Poets? Summer Convention and Symposium, to be held in the United States Capital, Washington, D.C., from August 15-17, 2003. When you attend the Convention and Symposium, you will present your poetry in front of your fellow poets from around the world (Our last convention was celebrated by over 2500 poets from 58 countries worldwide!), and you will be presented with your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Silver Award Cup. The Award is a magnificent work of art (a $200.00 value) that measures over 11 inches across and over 17 inches high, handcrafted in silver, with your name custom-engraved on a beautiful cherry wood base (see it here). I?m sure it will merit a special place of pride in your home. Your award is so large and heavy that you may wish to bring an extra suitcase to carry it home! And Duncan . . . there's much more . . . In recognition of your poetry presentation at this prestigious International Symposium, we will also create and present to you a beautiful and colorful Commemorative Award Medallion to honor your poetic dedication and achievements. 36 POETS WILL SHARE $74,000.00 TOTAL IN PRIZES--INCLUDING THE SINGLE LARGEST POETRY CASH PRIZE EVER AWARDED--$20,000.00! And don't forget the most lucrative amateur poetry contest ever! Your contest entry poem can be written in any style, on any subject . . . and can be up to 40 lines long. Just think . . . for this poem alone, you will have the opportunity to win one of 36 cash and gift prizes to be awarded at the Symposium . . including a Grand Prize of $20,000.00--the largest cash prize ever awarded in an amateur poetry competition. There's also a Second Prize of $5,000.00, two Third Prizes of all-expenses paid vacations for two, including a Caribbean cruise and a trip to Cancun, Mexico, a Fourth Prize of $1,000.00, and six other cash prizes of $500.00 each. World-renowned Pulitzer Prize-winning poet W.D.Snodgrass and movie star Mickey Rooney will be with us to congratulate poets and present the Grand Prize. Your society is also encouraging today's youth to develop and utilize their poetic talents in a positive manner. This year we will award five $1,000.00 cash scholarships to talented young poets attending the Symposium. Our editors and professors will also be searching for new poetic talent. Twenty poets will be "discovered" in the contest reading sessions. These winners will be awarded publishing or recording contracts that will generate international exposure for their poetic artistry. In all, $74,000.00 in cash and prizes will be awarded at this single event! LIGHTS . . . CAMERA . . . ACTION! And that's still just the beginning . . . we've got three very special days planned for you . . . ones you'll never forget! **You will be officially inducted as an honorary "International Poet of Merit" for 2003. **You and your poetic achievements will be honored at two Gala Banquets and Award Ceremonies. **You will enjoy dazzling entertainment shows created especially for you featuring Hollywood living legend Mickey Rooney, members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the Drifters, legendary Motown singing group, the Marvelettes, plus other special surprise entertainers. These special command performances will thrill and delight you. There will also be lots of other entertainment, including Midnight Dance Parties on both Friday and Saturday nights! **Hollywood icon and legendary star of the silver screen, Mickey Rooney, will entertain and inspire us throughout the weekend. **You will learn more about your craft in seminars, reading rooms, rap sessions, and workshops, where you can read and discuss your poetry in informal settings with other poets from all over the world. Back by popular demand are the ISP rap rooms, our famous sunrise poetry readings, the ISP Coffee House, the ISP Open Microphone Rooms, and workshops on how to fine-tune your poetic talents. **You will have the rare opportunity to get up-close and personal with the Pulitzer Prize-winning poet W.D. Snodgrass, Dr. Herbert Woodward Martin, Mattie Stepanek, and Dr. Len Roberts, who will also be reading their own work. **You will participate in a fantastic international poetry competition featuring 35 prizes totaling $74,000.00. A Grand Prize of $20,000.00, two all-expenses paid vacations for two, including a Caribbean cruise and a trip to Cancun, Mexico, 8 other cash prizes totaling $9,000.00, 10 poetry recording contracts, 10 book publishing contracts, and 5 Young Poets Scholarship prizes will be awarded at this single event. **You and your guests will also be eligible to win one of many door prizes, valued at over $6,000.00. **You will make friendships that will last a lifetime and will return home with wonderful memories, your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Silver Award Cup, your Commemorative Award Medallion, and lots of other special gifts. DON'T BE LEFT OUT Don't miss this opportunity. Space is limited, and our Conventions routinely sell out. Plan to join your fellow poets in the United States Capital, Washington, D.C., August 15-17, 2003 for the poetic event of the year! I am also looking forward to meeting you and celebrating the power and beauty of poets and poetry! Sincerely, Steve Michaels International Society of Poets Convention Chairperson Click here for more information. Click here to Register Now, or go to https://www.poetry.com/poetscorner/register.asp?VIP=P2904902&SC=T131 P.S. I'm sending you this reminder since you previously requested to be notified of poetry news by e-mail. If you no longer wish us to notify you of poetic events that we believe may be of interest to you, please click here, or go to http://www.poetry.com/nl/stopemail.asp. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luap at mallasch.com Thu Jun 19 12:50:39 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:50:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award (fwd) Message-ID: These clowns need to be taken down. I must admit they had me going when I submitted one of Bob's ... er, one of my poems to poetry.com and actually got a letter in the mail from them! It wasn't even a good poem! -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 JackTar at aol.com wrote: > Here is my latest chance for fame and fortune for only $595.00:-^) Note the > tongue in cheek emoticon. This is so one doesn't think I'm baring my soul or in > search of the elusive brass ring. They claim their last attendance was 2500 > people. At $582.50 average cost that's close to 1.5 million less expenses. Not > bad for the promoters. > You; of course, are responsible for your travel and room expenses. > > Duncan > > > Dear Duncan, > > > > Because you requested that we notify you of important poetic events, I am > > delighted to inform you that in just a few weeks, we will be honoring your > > poetic accomplishments at poetry.com???s and the International Society of Poets??? > > Summer Convention and Symposium, to be held in the United States Capital, > > Washington, D.C., from August 15-17, 2003. > > > > When you attend the Convention and Symposium, you will present your poetry > > in front of your fellow poets from around the world (Our last convention was > > celebrated by over 2500 poets from 58 countries worldwide!), and you will be > > presented with your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Silver Award Cup. > > > > The Award is a magnificent work of art (a $200.00 value) that measures over > > 11 inches across and over 17 inches high, handcrafted in silver, with your > > name custom-engraved on a beautiful cherry wood base (see it here). I???m sure > > it will merit a special place of pride in your home. Your award is so large > > and heavy that you may wish to bring an extra suitcase to carry it home! > > > > And Duncan . . . there's much more . . . > > > > In recognition of your poetry presentation at this prestigious > > International Symposium, we will also create and present to you a beautiful and colorful > > Commemorative Award Medallion to honor your poetic dedication and > > achievements. > > > > 36 POETS WILL SHARE $74,000.00 TOTAL IN PRIZES--INCLUDING > > THE SINGLE LARGEST POETRY CASH PRIZE EVER AWARDED--$20,000.00! > > > > And don't forget the most lucrative amateur poetry contest ever! Your > > contest entry poem can be written in any style, on any subject . . . and can be up > > to 40 lines long. > > > > Just think . . . for this poem alone, you will have the opportunity to win > > one of 36 cash and gift prizes to be awarded at the Symposium . . including a > > Grand Prize of $20,000.00--the largest cash prize ever awarded in an amateur > > poetry competition. There's also a Second Prize of $5,000.00, two Third > > Prizes of all-expenses paid vacations for two, including a Caribbean cruise and a > > trip to Cancun, Mexico, a Fourth Prize of $1,000.00, and six other cash > > prizes of $500.00 each. World-renowned Pulitzer Prize-winning poet W.D.Snodgrass > > and movie star Mickey Rooney will be with us to congratulate poets and > > present the Grand Prize. > > > > Your society is also encouraging today's youth to develop and utilize their > > poetic talents in a positive manner. This year we will award five $1,000.00 > > cash scholarships to talented young poets attending the Symposium. > > > > Our editors and professors will also be searching for new poetic talent. > > Twenty poets will be "discovered" in the contest reading sessions. These > > winners will be awarded publishing or recording contracts that will generate > > international exposure for their poetic artistry. > > > > In all, $74,000.00 in cash and prizes will be awarded at this single event! > > > > LIGHTS . . . CAMERA . . . ACTION! > > > > And that's still just the beginning . . . we've got three very special days > > planned for you . . . ones you'll never forget! > > > > **You will be officially inducted as an honorary "International Poet of > > Merit" for 2003. > > > > **You and your poetic achievements will be honored at two Gala Banquets and > > Award Ceremonies. > > > > **You will enjoy dazzling entertainment shows created especially for you > > featuring Hollywood living legend Mickey Rooney, members of the Rock and Roll > > Hall of Fame, the Drifters, legendary Motown singing group, the Marvelettes, > > plus other special surprise entertainers. These special command performances > > will thrill and delight you. There will also be lots of other entertainment, > > including Midnight Dance Parties on both Friday and Saturday nights! > > > > **Hollywood icon and legendary star of the silver screen, Mickey Rooney, > > will entertain and inspire us throughout the weekend. > > > > **You will learn more about your craft in seminars, reading rooms, rap > > sessions, and workshops, where you can read and discuss your poetry in informal > > settings with other poets from all over the world. Back by popular demand are > > the ISP rap rooms, our famous sunrise poetry readings, the ISP Coffee House, > > the ISP Open Microphone Rooms, and workshops on how to fine-tune your poetic > > talents. > > > > **You will have the rare opportunity to get up-close and personal with the > > Pulitzer Prize-winning poet W.D. Snodgrass, Dr. Herbert Woodward Martin, > > Mattie Stepanek, and Dr. Len Roberts, who will also be reading their own work. > > > > **You will participate in a fantastic international poetry competition > > featuring 35 prizes totaling $74,000.00. A Grand Prize of $20,000.00, two > > all-expenses paid vacations for two, including a Caribbean cruise and a trip to > > Cancun, Mexico, 8 other cash prizes totaling $9,000.00, 10 poetry recording > > contracts, 10 book publishing contracts, and 5 Young Poets Scholarship prizes will > > be awarded at this single event. > > > > **You and your guests will also be eligible to win one of many door prizes, > > valued at over $6,000.00. > > > > **You will make friendships that will last a lifetime and will return home > > with wonderful memories, your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Silver Award > > Cup, your Commemorative Award Medallion, and lots of other special gifts. > > > > DON'T BE LEFT OUT > > > > Don't miss this opportunity. Space is limited, and our Conventions > > routinely sell out. Plan to join your fellow poets in the United States Capital, > > Washington, D.C., August 15-17, 2003 for the poetic event of the year! I am also > > looking forward to meeting you and celebrating the power and beauty of poets > > and poetry! > > > > Sincerely, > > Steve Michaels > > International Society of Poets > > Convention Chairperson > > > > Click here for more information. > > > > Click here to Register Now, or go to > > https://www.poetry.com/poetscorner/register.asp?VIP=P2904902&SC=T131 > > > > P.S. I'm sending you this reminder since you previously requested to be > > notified of poetry news by e-mail. If you no longer wish us to notify you of > > poetic events that we believe may be of interest to you, please click here, or > > go to http://www.poetry.com/nl/stopemail.asp. > > > > > > From MillB at aol.com Thu Jun 19 13:18:47 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:18:47 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award (fwd) Message-ID: <18f.1bdcdc69.2c234a77@aol.com> I agree that it's a deplorable scam. . .but what's the difference between Poetry.com and the counter clerk who sells hundreds of dollars of makeup and creams to a make-over candidate? Or the spa treatment that promises youthful replenishment? They all fill a need. And if the promises aren't illegal. . .and people feel better, why not? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luap at mallasch.com Thu Jun 19 13:32:23 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:32:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award (fwd) In-Reply-To: <18f.1bdcdc69.2c234a77@aol.com> Message-ID: Mill! Congratulations! You have an award winning post to new poetry! You are special. Your post is miles above the other posts. By the way, if you send me $39.95 you can show all your friends that you're a good poster. -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ p.s. do you truly feel better? On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 MillB at aol.com wrote: > I agree that it's a deplorable scam. . .but what's the difference between > Poetry.com and the counter clerk who sells hundreds of dollars of makeup and > creams to a make-over candidate? Or the spa treatment that promises youthful > replenishment? > > They all fill a need. > > And if the promises aren't illegal. . .and people feel better, why not? > From MillB at aol.com Thu Jun 19 13:54:36 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:54:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award (fwd) Message-ID: <1cb.c4c3cfc.2c2352dc@aol.com> Actually, yes! I'm glowing. This girl's a sucker for praise :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Thu Jun 19 15:10:58 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award (fwd) Message-ID: <20030619191058.BF1C842FC@sitemail.everyone.net> MilliB, Because they are deceitful. They will take the money out "of any naive` poet's purse." To wit: VANITY, IS THY TRUE NAME, POET? By Robert R. Cobb Poets seeking publishers in vain, may pay dearly for the privilege. Poets who become household names, are finding different paths and other ways. Avoid the publish or perish mythology, vain glory makes a sad anthology. Pen names and aka's may provide anonymity, some famous poets are nameless entities. Pomposity is seldom worth the price, vanity, is thy true name, poet? Drawn in by contests, lured by prizes, entry fees and vain disguises. Appealing to some urgent need, to seek recognition or fame. Some publishers seem to be well-versed, to scam and scheme away the na?ve` poet's purse. True poetic justice would not be so blind, if more scoundrels were to be derided. Expose them all, for charlatans they may be, who poetically prey and practice their chicanery. Poetry Catamaran "Just how advanced a poetic craft need be to sail along the 'known mainstream' down to the poetic sea?" Robert R. Cobb AMONG FRIENDS, original art and poetry. http://rrcobb.tripod.com --- message from MillB at aol.com attached: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: MillB at aol.com Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award (fwd) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:18:47 EDT Size: 3133 URL: From MillB at aol.com Thu Jun 19 18:56:54 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 18:56:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New-Poetry]Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award (fwd) Message-ID: <197.1c0fb554.2c2399b6@aol.com> My tongue is half in my cheek-- However, a television show like 60 Minutes did a feature on the annual conference and interviewed participants. Most said that they HAD thought they were more special than they turned out to be, but after spending a reasonable amount on the trip, most also admitted that they'd had a great time, met new friends, famous folks and generally felt that the experience had been worthwhile. What's the difference between an encouraging personal trainer who over-praises each push-up? And charges $75 an hour. Who's to say that is damaging? Deceitful. Of course. Aren't lotteries? Why is that more of a scam than the hundreds of dollars of entry fees the average "literary" poet pays each year entering competitions? If the Poetry.com participants like the awards they receive and have a good vacation, what's wrong with that? I just put three mss entries in the mail today, for a total of $75 in entry fees, and received no plaque. I bought a name a star after a person certificate and the new parents loved the gift, framed it and we all sat around feeling happy, looking up at the sky. :) Mill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 19 21:36:47 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 21:36:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New-Poetry]Your Outstanding Achievement in Poetry Award (fwd) References: <197.1c0fb554.2c2399b6@aol.com> Message-ID: <005e01c336cc$6b2dd560$0b3dfea9@j1c1k6> My tongue is half in my cheek-- However, a television show like 60 Minutes did a feature on the annual conference and interviewed participants. Most said that they HAD thought they were more special than they turned out to be, but after spending a reasonable amount on the trip, most also admitted that they'd had a great time, met new friends, famous folks and generally felt that the experience had been worthwhile. What's the difference between an encouraging personal trainer who over-praises each push-up? And charges $75 an hour. A personal trainer will at least help you improve your physical fitness. Who's to say that is damaging? Deceitful. Of course. Aren't lotteries? Lotteries are stupid--but they do tell you what yours odds of winning are. Why is that more of a scam than the hundreds of dollars of entry fees the average "literary" poet pays each year entering competitions? It isn't. If the Poetry.com participants like the awards they receive and have a good vacation, what's wrong with that? My problem with it is that it is a lie. Hundreds of talentless people are told they are exceptionally good poets. Many who, not encouraged, might have found something else to do they were good at. Sure, well-done bought praise may be nice, but it's nothing compared to the real praise they might otherwise have gotten--or the satisfaction that doing something well, as (I believe) writing lousy poetry can't, no matter how much one is rewarded for it in praise, money or fame. The people wasting their money on these "competitions" also could be doing something of much more value to themselves and society with their money--like buying books of poetry (which I doubt many of them do). And the few who might actually have talent might even be able to use such books, and books about poetry and poets, to become better at poetry. The clowns who make the big bucks out of these things might have contributed more valuably to society, too. The contests also get space in newspapers--and 60 Minutes--that might have gone to real poets. I only entered one such such contest--because a critique was promised. It only cost $20. I didn't get the critique until I wrote a letter demanding one--and it was a xeroxed form-critique praising . . . my essay! You see, it was a three-part contest, and they sent me the wrong form-rejection. Maybe on purpose. As an editor-publisher, I like such contests, though, because worthless poets seem to like to include their victories in them in their cover letters, which saves me the trouble of reading their crap. (Actually, I usually read it, anyway.) Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.alexander1 at wanadoo.fr Fri Jun 20 07:24:51 2003 From: james.alexander1 at wanadoo.fr (james.alexander1) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:24:51 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] a contribution from Salonika Message-ID: <000201c33724$589de900$6d84fac1@pavilion> New Thead? Thanking Henry Gould who straightened out a baddly squewed communications trend as read by to a front line EU (Western Europe remember) troop who also has to work his language skills if only to survive. Well beyond exile (French & English): Inspired by H. MacDaimid's "Beyond Exile". As professionals you probably know MacDairmid's work. If my contribution leads some to take a new look my time will not have been in vain. Also for the teachers this may provide a "bridge with other Faculties!!! eg. French, Science and more Enjoy. Jaggy Stuff or Battling with one's self- for D.J. "Goodyear from Dunlop" (a town in Ayrshire, Scotland very near my home town.) Dunlop himself hailed from Dreghorn in Ayrshire even nearer my birth place. My stuff is often an expression of technical struggles. Thanking also Jim Flanigan for opening your forum which I picked up on ChemWeb (www.chemweb.com ) What happened to my "Newton is dead"? Now, I must get back to my struggle with light emitting diodes(Leds) and many other "Buckminster Fuller type" subjects. James Alexander BSc(Hons. Metallurgy!) C.Eng (MIM) 9 impasse louis stevenot 58000 Nevers, France (West Burgandy- Bourgogne) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 20 10:37:57 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:37:57 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Open Letter to President George W. Bush Message-ID: <3EF31C45.D0A0D27D@earthlink.net> Dear President Bush: I am writing as a citizen concerned about your mental health. No, don't stop reading here! I am genuinely concerned because I have detected certain symptoms in your words and actions that indicate barriers to your achieving your full potential as President. Your words, actions, and decisions vis a vis Iraq are relevant, but are not my focus; what's done is done, people cannot be brought back to life, and your shifting rationale for making war on Iraq might possibly be seen as just "dealing with the moment" - something all mortals do from time to time. I know you're human, even if you're President. My small case study has to do with the recent E.P.A. report on climate change. Though your name was mentioned only once in the article I read (see below), I sense your large presence behind the report. It seems the White House (that's you, ultimately) edited out "references to many studies concluding that warming is at least partly caused by rising concentrations of smokestack and tail-pipe emissions and could threaten health and ecosystems," and "White House officials also deleted a reference to a 1999 study showing that global temperatures had risen sharply in the previous decade compared with the last 1,000 years. In its place, administration officials added a reference to a new study, partly financed by the American Petroleum Institute, questioning that conclusion." Now, as a Yale educated President, you are no doubt familiar with the known effects of the dawning of the industrial age on the world environment. Logic dictates that further abuse of the environment would cause additional effects. Not to insult your intelligence, but the phenomenon of acid rain is an example. Mr. President, if you were a doctor - an oncologist, for example - would you spare your patient all news about tumors and high, white blood cell counts and simply prescribe a pain killer for that patient's "unexplained" pains? Or would you give that patient the unvarnished truth so as to deal with the real problem directly? To do the former would constitute a pathological action, don't you agree? An ethical doctor would pay attention to all the evidence and not further endanger the patient. I know all analogies break down eventually, but in respect to the E.P.A. report, you are acting like the unethical doctor. Be all you can be, Mr. President. The health and welfare of this country and the world are more important than blind obeisance to your friends in the petroleum industry. Think of foot-high letters spelling out "HEALTH" and "CONCERN" behind you in your next speech. Revitalize the economy by waging a war on pollution and reversing the negative effects on the only planet we have. Think of it as a war-time economy with industry geared toward clean energy, with millions of Americans working in re-focused, re-tooled factories. Imagine "ROOSEVELT, TRUMAN AND KENNEDY DID IT. SO CAN WE" in big letters behind you in your next speech. Your war this time would be against unemployment, a weak economy, and an ailing planet, which would be as uplifting as our sending men to the moon. But the first small step is to tell the truth. Sincerely, James Cervantes Mesa, Arizona *"Report by the E.P.A. Leaves Out Data on Climate Change," June 19, 2003, By Andrew C. Revkin with Katharine Q. Seelye, The New York Times, http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/19/politics/19CLIM.html?ex=1057022604&ei=1&en=e0bde5e8bfab1f46 ===================== I'm starting a letter writing campaign and will send the above to the White House, newspapers, and also spread it far and wide via the internet. I encourage you to write letters of your own. Be as forthright and blunt as you can. It's time to shine the spotlight on the issues at a grass roots level. - Jim From marcus at designerglass.com Fri Jun 20 13:01:20 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:01:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nigerian Writing Conference In-Reply-To: <005e01c336cc$6b2dd560$0b3dfea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <3EF305A0.1789.113BAFB@localhost> http://www.j-walk.com/blog/docs/conference.htm Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From rlong at jcws.net Fri Jun 20 13:33:29 2003 From: rlong at jcws.net (Richard Long) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:33:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Summer Issue of 2RV Message-ID: <003601c33752$1072f0c0$8b0c12d0@2river> The latest issue of The 2River View just went up today at the 2River website: http://www.2River.org The issue, which marks the seventh complete year of 2River, has new poems by C. L. Bledsoe, Wendy Taylor Carlisle, Susan H. Case, Autumn Collins, Doug Crandell, Tova Gabrielle, Ian Christopher Hooper, Robert Krut, Hallie Moore, and Evelyn Posamentier; and Irish folk art by Oliver Curran. I hope you'll add it to your summer reading list! My best, Richard Long ====== 2River www.2River.org From hruggier at localnet.com Fri Jun 20 14:02:50 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:02:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nigerian Writing Conference References: <3EF305A0.1789.113BAFB@localhost> Message-ID: <3EF34C49.EC953B42@localnet.com> This isn't asking for my bank account number is it? Marcus Bales wrote: > http://www.j-walk.com/blog/docs/conference.htm > > Marcus Bales > > marcus at designerglass.com > http://www.designerglass.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From luap at mallasch.com Fri Jun 20 14:22:45 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:22:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Nigerian Writing Conference In-Reply-To: <3EF34C49.EC953B42@localnet.com> Message-ID: NO IT ISN"T. GRACIOUS THANKING YOU. -KPAUL ESQ. mallasch.com/mug/ On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Helen Ruggieri wrote: > This isn't asking for my bank account number is it? > > Marcus Bales wrote: > > > http://www.j-walk.com/blog/docs/conference.htm > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > marcus at designerglass.com > > http://www.designerglass.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Jun 20 14:30:03 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 20:30:03 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nigerian Writing Conference References: Message-ID: <009201c33759$f78659a0$a61c2dd5@anny> A nice remerciement from me to Monsieur Marcus Bales, these days we really do not know what to do to fill in this booring time, again, (oh yes, one can still put the link and its content in the anthropological section, well set there, I wonder... no, better not, behave to me) anny > > Marcus Bales wrote: > > > > > http://www.j-walk.com/blog/docs/conference.htm > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > > marcus at designerglass.com > > > http://www.designerglass.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Henry_Gould at brown.edu Fri Jun 20 14:34:12 2003 From: Henry_Gould at brown.edu (Henry Gould) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:34:12 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] re: a contributon from Salonika Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030620143329.00ad3400@postoffice.brown.edu> Glad to be of assistance, James, & welcome - Henry From marcus at designerglass.com Fri Jun 20 16:55:39 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:55:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nigerian Writing Conference In-Reply-To: <3EF34C49.EC953B42@localnet.com> Message-ID: <3EF33C8B.31690.1EA4A01@localhost> No, it's a joke. Please don't send anyone your bank account number. Marcus On 20 Jun 2003 at 14:02, Helen Ruggieri wrote: > This isn't asking for my bank account number is it? > > Marcus Bales wrote: > > > http://www.j-walk.com/blog/docs/conference.htm > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > marcus at designerglass.com > > http://www.designerglass.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From JforJames at aol.com Fri Jun 20 18:08:34 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:08:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] National Poetry Slam, Chicago 8/6-9 Message-ID: <194.1afd869e.2c24dfe2@aol.com> http://www.poetryslam.com/nps/ From hruggier at localnet.com Sat Jun 21 12:10:19 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:10:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nigerian Writing Conference References: <3EF33C8B.31690.1EA4A01@localhost> Message-ID: <3EF4836A.235FEE01@localnet.com> No, I figured it was spam: send account number I'll deposit ten million your Nigerian friend Marcus Bales wrote: > No, it's a joke. Please don't send anyone your bank account number. > Marcus > > On 20 Jun 2003 at 14:02, Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > > This isn't asking for my bank account number is it? > > > > Marcus Bales wrote: > > > > > http://www.j-walk.com/blog/docs/conference.htm > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > > marcus at designerglass.com > > > http://www.designerglass.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > Marcus Bales > > marcus at designerglass.com > http://www.designerglass.com > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ron.silliman at verizon.net Sun Jun 22 09:42:13 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:42:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Armantrout - Donnelly - Silliman @ the Drawing Center 6/24 Message-ID: <000001c338c4$1ac63a50$e3f5f343@Dell> Line Reading Rae Armantrout Jean Donnelly Ron Silliman Tuesday, June 24 6:30 PM The Drawing Room 35 Wooster Street* New York City Admission $5 / members free *across the street from the main gallery From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sun Jun 22 10:51:31 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:51:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] hoorah for the murdering US soldiers!!! Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030622094448.019b4d40@mail.ilstu.edu> "Whadda we ever do to them?" http://truthout.org/docs_03/062103C.shtml And a poem from the state of Texas, I mean England (hey, remember the Alamo!! [which was a fight on behalf of slavery]): Rupert Brooke (1887-1915) 1914 V. The Soldier If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a foreign field That is for ever England. There shall be In that rich earth a richer dust concealed; A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware, Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam; A body of England's, breathing English air, Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home. And think, this heart, all evil shed away, A pulse in the eternal mind, no less Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given; Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day; And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness, In hearts at peace, under an English heaven. From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sun Jun 22 15:10:08 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:10:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] A New Campaign to Impeach Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030622140959.01b53908@mail.ilstu.edu> New Campaign to Impeach: www.votetoimpeach.org >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:26:25 -0400 >From: ImpeachBush at VoteToImpeach.org >Subject: Each One, Reach One >To: gmguddi at ilstu.edu >Reply-to: impeach_info at VoteToImpeach.org > >Dear VoteToImpeach Member, > >Last month Ramsey Clark appealed to the 250,000 VoteToImpeach members to >help build the campaign. Now, we are launching a new initiative to take >this campaign to the million vote mark. > >The framework of the initiative could not be more simple. It is captured >in its name: Each One, Reach One. We are asking all VoteToImpeach members >to commit to getting just one additional person to vote to impeach online. >We know that many members will do more. But if each of us got one person >to vote this month we would pass the half a million mark, and if we do the >same in the following months, we will have reached the million mark. > >These million votes will be taken to the House Judiciary Committee. >Twenty-nine years ago next month, the House Judiciary Committee, with >sharp division, voted for Articles of Impeachment for Richard M. Nixon. >Within a month, on August 9, 1974 Richard Nixon resigned rather than face >impeachment. Let us not forget that Nixon's near-impeachment and >resignation came a year and a half after he won one of the biggest >landslide elections in U.S. history. > >Among the Articles of Impeachment, Nixon was charged with "making or >causing to be made false or misleading statements for the purpose of >deceiving the people of the United States...." The relevance of the Nixon >impeachment proceedings with the case against George W. Bush et al., was >noted recently by John Dean, the former counsel to President Nixon in a >June 11, 2003 article titled "The Case for Impeachment." > >Responding to the growing public outcry regarding Bush's lies and >deceptions that were used as the rationale for the invasion of Iraq, Dean >wrote, "To put it bluntly, if Bush has taken Congress and the nation into >war based on bogus information, he is cooked. Manipulation or deliberate >misuse of national security intelligence data, if proven, could be a 'high >crime' under the Constitution's impeachment clause. It would be also be a >violation of federal criminal law, including the broad federal >anti-conspiracy statute, which renders it a felony 'to defraud the United >States, or any agency thereof in any manner for any purpose.' >" It's important to recall that when Richard Nixon resigned, he was about >to be impeached by the House of Representatives for misusing the CIA and >FBI. After Watergate, all presidents are on notice that manipulating or >misusing any agency of the executive branch improperly is a serious abuse >of presidential power." > >Dean asserts, "in the three decades since Watergate, this is the first >potential scandal I have seen that could make Watergate pale by >comparison. If the Bush administration intentionally manipulated or >misrepresented intelligence to get Congress to authorize, and the public >to support, military action to take control of Iraq, then that would be a >monstrous misdeed." >When George W. Bush addressed the nation on March 17, 2003, to announce >that war against Iraq had become inevitable and imminent, he stated, >"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that >the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal >weapons ever devised." > >Bush administration officials systematically lied to the people of the >United States, to Congress and to the United Nations. Tens of thousands of >Iraqis have now been killed and maimed. Iraq society has been plunged into >chaos and misery. Its sovereignty shredded by an illegal occupation. >Hundreds of US GI's have been killed and wounded. While waging an illegal >war against the people of Iraq, the administration has carried out a war >home -- an attack on the civil rights and liberties of the people of the >United States and on the Bill of Rights itself. > The VoteToImpeach campaign is a critical effort. As Ramsey Clark stated > in his May 12 address at the National Press Club that was broadcast > nationally on C-Span: "When people vote to Impeach it is important. It > reminds Americans that the Constitution provides the means for removing > an Imperial President and officials who commit high crimes." > >The administration's crimes, including its lies and deceptions, are >becoming increasingly exposed in the public discourse and media. Pressure >is growing for Congressional hearings on the Administration's lies and >deliberate manipulation of "intelligence data" related to the much >ballyhooed connection between Iraq and Al' Qaeda and the patently false >claim about the "grave and imminent threat" posed by Iraq's alleged >Weapons of Mass Destruction. Under these circumstances it is all the more >important to expand the grassroots VotetoImpeach campaign. > >Participate in the Each One, Reach One initiative, and by >clicking here you will be taken >to the Each One, Reach One page where you can send an email inviting one >or more friends, family members or colleagues to join the Impeachment movement. > >Let's keep the pressure on! > >All of us at VoteToImpeach.org > >- - - >This e-mail has been sent to persons who have previously communicated >with, or voted at, VoteToImpeach.org. If you have been forwarded this >e-mail by a friend and wish to receive future e-mails from >VoteToImpeach.org, simply >Click >here to Subscribe. If you have received this in error, or wish to not >receive future e-communication from us, please >Click >here to Unsubscribe. >122bd5e.jpg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 122bd5e.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 633 bytes Desc: not available URL: From JackTar at aol.com Sun Jun 22 18:11:12 2003 From: JackTar at aol.com (JackTar at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:11:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] hoorah for the murdering US soldiers!!! Message-ID: <70.2f770e6a.2c278380@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/2003 9:54:52 AM Central Standard Time, gmguddi at ilstu.edu writes: > "Whadda we ever do to them?" > The following three lines are attributed to a Soldier in the Civil War. A bunch of us went to Gettysburg. A bunch of us didn't come back. If you weren't there, you wouldn't understand. duncan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sun Jun 22 22:42:10 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 21:42:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] hoorah for the murdering US soldiers!!! In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030622094448.019b4d40@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030622213643.042f5340@mail.ilstu.edu> "... The world's biggest and most formidible army - the most technologically advanced - lacks discipline regarding its own rules of engagement and an ability - the critical ability - to properly identify targets before engagement. This is not a new problem. It is behind the too frequent incidences of US friendly fire on its allies; behind the arrogance with which US forces treated many Iraqis. But the result is a recklessness and a lack of care for civilian casualties that borders on the criminal. When I look at that picture of those young men from the 3/15th, when I remember their terrible baptism by fire in the battle on that motorway, I would like to feel more sympathy for them than I do. They are good men most of them, but they have put on the green suit and taken up the gun. And they have failed in the terrible responsibilty that this confers upon them." http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_article.php?articleId=9710&lang=en __________ Rupert Brooke (1887-1915) 1914 IV. The Dead These hearts were woven of human joys and cares, Washed marvellously with sorrow, swift to mirth. The years had given them kindness. Dawn was theirs, And sunset, and the colours of the earth. These had seen movement, and heard music; known Slumber and waking; loved; gone proudly friended; Felt the quick stir of wonder; sat alone; Touched flowers and furs and cheeks. All this is ended. There are waters blown by changing winds to laughter And lit by the rich skies, all day. And after, Frost, with a gesture, stays the waves that dance And wandering loveliness. He leaves a white Unbroken glory, a gathered radiance, A width, a shining peace, under the night. _____________________________________________________ "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 gmguddi at ilstu.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JackTar at aol.com Mon Jun 23 00:14:08 2003 From: JackTar at aol.com (JackTar at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 00:14:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] hoorah for the murdering US soldiers!!! Message-ID: <135.219aedee.2c27d890@aol.com> In a message dated 6/22/2003 9:45:09 PM Central Standard Time, gmguddi at ilstu.edu writes: > "... The world's biggest and most formidible army - the most > technologically advanced - lacks discipline regarding its own rules of engagement and an > ability - the critical ability - to properly identify targets before > engagement. > > This is not a new problem. It is behind the too frequent incidences of US > friendly fire on its allies; behind the arrogance with which US forces treated > many Iraqis. > > But the result is a recklessness and a lack of care for civilian casualties > that borders on the criminal. > > When I look at that picture of those young men from the 3/15th, when I > remember their terrible baptism by fire in the battle on that motorway, I would > like to feel more sympathy for them than I do. They are good men most of them, > but they have put on the green suit and taken up the gun. And they have > failed in the terrible responsibilty that this confers upon them." > > http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_article.php?articleId=9710&lang=en > > Again, A bunch of us went to Gettysburg. A bunch of us didn't come back. If you weren't there, you wouldn't understand. this includes the fourth estate - noncombatants catering their stories towards certain demographics with market share in mind. This is not to downplay the interviews with combatants and the typical bitching about purpose and the idiocy of command level control over those on the ground. It's about adjust, adapt, and overcome. Whether those on the ground can achieve this, depends on the constraints placed on them by the political realities of the command structure and the reality of their shifting situation. duncan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ron.silliman at verizon.net Mon Jun 23 07:35:43 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:35:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: Un verdadero lujo Message-ID: <000001c3397b$99284660$e9f5f343@Dell> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ A history of blogging (whilst dishing Matt Drudge) Line reading -- Armantrout, Donnelly, Silliman (see below for details) Imagine Rain Taxi distributed by every Sunday paper in America Celebrating our 40,000 visitor Barrett Watten?s The Constructivist Moment: From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Mon Jun 23 14:54:30 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 11:54:30 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] you bring out the boring white poet in me Message-ID: <3EF74CE6.4B1D4258@earthlink.net> you bring out the boring white poet in me for Jim Daniels the workshop list poem in me. The Jewell in me. The Ashbery Cliff Notes in me. I've run out of items already. I've got my Mo-Jo idling, my antennae raised. My senses are open, Honey Pie, my mouth is duct . . . - Jim C. From mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu Mon Jun 23 16:50:45 2003 From: mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu (mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:50:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Mainstream Classic! - Orrick Johns In-Reply-To: <109.231d0cb1.2be2f663@aol.com> References: <109.231d0cb1.2be2f663@aol.com> Message-ID: <1056401445.3ef768256f08c@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> The Mainstream Poets are happy to sponsor a forgotten classic, "Olives" by Orrick Johns. Written in 1915, it appeared alongside Mina Loy?s "Love Songs" in William Carlos Williams?s magazine, Others. Williams mentions it as causing a minor sensation in his Autobiography (specifically the "Blue Undershirts" section). A revised, and it seems to us less bold, version appeared in Johns?s book Black Branches under the title "Tunings." Johns is well worth checking out! His poetry is all over the map but some of it, including this poem, exhibits a wonderfully bizarre combination of sincerity and stupidity not seen again until some of the New York Schoolies tried on a similar tone. Very Mainstream! Happy reading... http://www.mainstreampoetry.com From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Mon Jun 23 19:18:06 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:18:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] you bring out the boring white poet in me In-Reply-To: <3EF74CE6.4B1D4258@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030623151523.01ba1d68@mail.ilstu.edu> then Jim C. wrote, "you bring out the boring white poet in me": Lovely, Jim. Are you the author of "The Passion of Barns" and "Too Angry to Be Civil As I Stand on the Hill in the Wind"? Love your work. [You know, just as an aside, I've heard you quote Yeats -- with exquisite timbre -- at poetry readings (about the necessity of passion) and love how you almost weep when you move from trochees to dactyls after a strong enjambment. You really do divorce drama well. Hi to Cynthia (whom I believe you met at the CaneBrake Poetry Festival in Denton, Nebraska)]. By the bye,your elegies for Larry Levis are exquisite (in their emotional timbre). Poetry's essentially about feeling, I think you'd agree. gabe At 11:54 AM 6/23/2003 -0700, you wrote: >you bring out the boring white poet in me > > for Jim Daniels > > >the workshop list poem in me. The Jewell > >in me. The Ashbery Cliff Notes in me. > >I've run out of items already. I've got > >my Mo-Jo idling, my antennae raised. > >My senses are open, Honey Pie, > >my mouth is duct . . . > > >- Jim C. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _____________________________________________________ "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 gmguddi at ilstu.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Mon Jun 23 19:50:03 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 16:50:03 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] you bring out the boring white poet in me References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030623151523.01ba1d68@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <3EF7922B.1912DBCD@earthlink.net> Alas, I am not in the same bowling alley as the poet to whom you mistakenly ascribe my work. I have, however, worked in a factory - one summer long ago in the swan song of my youth . . . or is that "yute"? I know a Cynthia, but perhaps that is not the Cynthia you know, you know. Nebraska is known to me only as a railroad campground where I car-camped overnight before skeedaddling out 'o there for points east. The timbre around here is on fire, which you'd know if you read other than very important international news. But, seriously, Gabe, you have the wherewithall to write a pointed open letter to the Texas honcho vis a vis your most burning issue. Do it. I think it's time to shift gears and assault the status quo with voices from the "literary class" (see Newt). - Jim p.s. - I wrote "you bring out the boring white poet in me" in response to today's Poetry Daily offering - very un-PPC of me. Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > then Jim C. wrote, "you bring out the boring white poet in me": > > Lovely, Jim. Are you the author of "The Passion of Barns" and "Too Angry to > Be Civil As I Stand on the Hill in the Wind"? > > Love your work. > > [You know, just as an aside, I've heard you quote Yeats -- with exquisite > timbre -- at poetry readings (about the necessity of passion) and love how > you almost weep when you move from trochees to dactyls after a strong > enjambment. You really do divorce drama well. Hi to Cynthia (whom I believe > you met at the CaneBrake Poetry Festival in Denton, Nebraska)]. > > By the bye,your elegies for Larry Levis are exquisite (in their emotional > timbre). Poetry's essentially about feeling, I think you'd agree. > > gabe > > At 11:54 AM 6/23/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >you bring out the boring white poet in me > > > > for Jim Daniels > > > > > >the workshop list poem in me. The Jewell > > > >in me. The Ashbery Cliff Notes in me. > > > >I've run out of items already. I've got > > > >my Mo-Jo idling, my antennae raised. > > > >My senses are open, Honey Pie, > > > >my mouth is duct . . . > > > > > >- Jim C. > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _____________________________________________________ > > "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things > they misname empire; and where they make > a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus > > Gabriel Gudding > Assistant Professor of English > Illinois State University > Normal, IL 61790 > office 309.438.5284 > gmguddi at ilstu.edu > > http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards at prodigy.net Mon Jun 23 20:49:07 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:49:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] you bring out the boring white poet in me References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030623151523.01ba1d68@mail.ilstu.edu> <3EF7922B.1912DBCD@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004a01c339ea$6b3cc0e0$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Jim -- I'd read the original - loved your parody. Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] you bring out the boring white poet in me > Alas, I am not in the same bowling alley as the poet to whom you > mistakenly ascribe my work. I have, however, worked in a factory - one > summer long ago in the swan song of my youth . . . or is that "yute"? > > I know a Cynthia, but perhaps that is not the Cynthia you know, you > know. Nebraska is known to me only as a railroad campground where I > car-camped overnight before skeedaddling out 'o there for points east. > > The timbre around here is on fire, which you'd know if you read other > than very important international news. > > But, seriously, Gabe, you have the wherewithall to write a pointed open > letter to the Texas honcho vis a vis your most burning issue. Do it. I > think it's time to shift gears and assault the status quo with voices > from the "literary class" (see Newt). > > - Jim > > p.s. - I wrote "you bring out the boring white poet in me" in response > to today's Poetry Daily offering - very un-PPC of me. > > Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > > > then Jim C. wrote, "you bring out the boring white poet in me": > > > > Lovely, Jim. Are you the author of "The Passion of Barns" and "Too Angry to > > Be Civil As I Stand on the Hill in the Wind"? > > > > Love your work. > > > > [You know, just as an aside, I've heard you quote Yeats -- with exquisite > > timbre -- at poetry readings (about the necessity of passion) and love how > > you almost weep when you move from trochees to dactyls after a strong > > enjambment. You really do divorce drama well. Hi to Cynthia (whom I believe > > you met at the CaneBrake Poetry Festival in Denton, Nebraska)]. > > > > By the bye,your elegies for Larry Levis are exquisite (in their emotional > > timbre). Poetry's essentially about feeling, I think you'd agree. > > > > gabe > > > > At 11:54 AM 6/23/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > >you bring out the boring white poet in me > > > > > > for Jim Daniels > > > > > > > > >the workshop list poem in me. The Jewell > > > > > >in me. The Ashbery Cliff Notes in me. > > > > > >I've run out of items already. I've got > > > > > >my Mo-Jo idling, my antennae raised. > > > > > >My senses are open, Honey Pie, > > > > > >my mouth is duct . . . > > > > > > > > >- Jim C. > > >_______________________________________________ > > >New-Poetry mailing list > > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _____________________________________________________ > > > > "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things > > they misname empire; and where they make > > a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus > > > > Gabriel Gudding > > Assistant Professor of English > > Illinois State University > > Normal, IL 61790 > > office 309.438.5284 > > gmguddi at ilstu.edu > > > > http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html > > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Mon Jun 23 21:05:47 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 20:05:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jim Daniels Message-ID: The Plant Nurse's Story Some guy walked in and said he needed a pass to go home. I said *What's wrong with you?* He said *I just need a pass to go home*. I said *There has to be something wrong with you or I can't send you home*. He said *I'm gonna kill my foreman*. I said *Calm down for a few minutes and then go back to work*. He said *I'm gonna kill that motherfucker* then walked out so I never knew who his foreman was till they brought him in all smashed up. He was a mess, I tell you. I didn't think he was serious. I mean I hear that kind of talk all the time. --Jim Daniels. *Punching Out*. Wayne State UP, 1990. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Mon Jun 23 23:06:44 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:06:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] dear friend Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030623220603.01bebea8@mail.ilstu.edu> Dear friend, The President took the nation to war based on his assertion that Iraq posed an imminent threat to our country. Now the evidence that backed that assertion is falling apart. If the Bush administration distorted intelligence or knowingly used false data to support the call to war, it would be an unprecedented deception. Even if weapons are now found, it'll be difficult to justify pre-war language that indicated that the exact location of the weapons was known and that they were ready to deploy at a moment's notice. With a crisis of credibility brewing abroad and the integrity of our President and our foreign policy on the line, we need answers now. Please join me in asking Congress to establish an independent, bipartisan commission to investigate the distortion of evidence now, at: http://www.moveon.org/distortion/ A President may make no more important decision than whether or not to take a country to war. If Bush and his officials deceived the American public to create support for the Iraq war, they need to be held accountable. Thanks. _____________________________________________________ "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 gmguddi at ilstu.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ From elemenope at icubed.com Tue Jun 24 03:26:45 2003 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:26:45 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Professor Gudding's Kwixotical Kwest In-Reply-To: <200306241601.h5OG1DST025942@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200306241601.h5OG1DST025942@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Watch the Professor lose again. This self induced banging of the head would be painful to watch, if it wasn't so funny and strange! However, I am reminded of Saddam's genocide and torture chambers to which the good Professor averts his eye preferring his faction's path of revenge and propaganda. (Can't forget self-advancement, either!) Examine carefully the recent NYT RadLib rewrite by the propagandist, Walter Pincus, of the original Cincinatti address which brought the re-ignition of the Iraq War to the fore. The unbiased reader will see an intentional distortion in the Pincus/Prof. Gudding discussion of the speeches. As in the past few years, so, too, in the future: the American people are following the ball as they could not follow it before alternative information media began to counter the Professor Gudding faction. Eventually, the scales of justice will balance in all of the media and then the process will take hold in academia - - (As I predicted on the Buffalo line and SubSub epochs ago.). RD ELEMENOPE Productions > > > >--__--__-- > >Message: 7 >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:06:44 -0500 >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >From: Gabriel Gudding >Subject: [New-Poetry] dear friend >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Dear friend, The President took the nation to war based on his assertion >that Iraq posed an imminent threat to our country. Now the evidence that >backed that assertion is falling apart. If the Bush administration >distorted intelligence or knowingly used false data to support the call to >war, it would be an unprecedented deception. Even if weapons are now found, >it'll be difficult to justify pre-war language that indicated that the >exact location of the weapons was known and that they were ready to deploy >at a moment's notice. With a crisis of credibility brewing abroad and the >integrity of our President and our foreign policy on the line, we need >answers now. Please join me in asking Congress to establish an independent, >bipartisan commission to investigate the distortion of evidence now, at: >http://www.moveon.org/distortion/ A President may make no more important >decision than whether or not to take a country to war. If Bush and his >officials deceived the American public to create support for the Iraq war, >they need to be held accountable. Thanks. > > >_____________________________________________________ > > "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things > they misname empire; and where they make > a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus > > >Gabriel Gudding >Assistant Professor of English >Illinois State University >Normal, IL 61790 >office 309.438.5284 >gmguddi at ilstu.edu > >http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html >http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ > > > >--__--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >End of New-Poetry Digest -- From JforJames at aol.com Tue Jun 24 20:08:27 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:08:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Stark (naked) welcomes unsolicited submissions Message-ID: Stark welcomes unsolicited submissions of poetry. Please note that Stark is a new poetry and photography journal. This submission call is for poetry submissions for the premiere issue. What makes Stark unusual in a world of hundreds of print and electronic literary magazines? Stark will be an art quality production with black and white photos of the poets. Each poet that submits to Stark does so with the understanding that, if selected, the poet will be asked to sit for a nude photography session with a professional photographer. One or two photos will be chosen by a committee of the editors, production manager, photographer, and the poet. The poet must write about the experience, and this poem may or may not be included in the collection. Two poems must be selected by the editors from a poet's submission for a poet to be considered for inclusion in Stark. Photographs will range from obscure, body parts, face only, back only, to full pose, and must be agreed upon be all members of the photography selection committee for each poet. You may preview the photographers craft at www.randylagana.net. We consider manuscripts from July 1 to October 31 (postmark dates). All submissions sent from November through June will be returned unread. We adhere strictly to our postmark restrictions. Since we operate on a first-received, first-read basis, we cannot make exceptions or hold work. Sorry, but we do not take e-mail or computer-file submissions. Mail submissions to: Stark, Hanover Press, P. O. Box 596, Newtown, CT 06470-0596. Stark is published once a year. The editors seek a full representation of the range and diversity of contemporary poetry. At the same time, we expect every issue to reflect our overall standards of literary excellence. Mail three to four poems at a time. A cover letter citing publications and awards, if any, is helpful. Poems should be individually typed either single- or double-spaced on one side of the page. There are no preferences in regards to names in headers or footers, or to staples or paper clips. Please do not send multiple submissions and do not send another manuscript until you hear about the first. All manuscripts and correspondence regarding submissions should be accompanied by a self-addressed, stamped envelope (S.A.S.E.) for a response; no replies will be given by e-mail or postcard. Expect three to five months for a decision. Do not query us until five months have passed, and if you do, please write to us, including an S.A.S.E. and indicating the postmark date of submission, instead of calling or e-mailing. Simultaneous submissions are amenable as long as they are indicated as such and we are notified immediately upon acceptance elsewhere. We do not reprint previously published work. We cannot be responsible for delay, loss, or damage. Payment is upon publication: one copy of the issue. Discounts for additional copies available to poets published in that issue. For more information about literary magazines, consult directories such as The Writer's Market and The International Directory of Literary Magazines and Small Presses where you will find The Underwood Review - a literary and arts journal by Hanover Press. From JforJames at aol.com Tue Jun 24 20:09:38 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:09:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <106.24b2347a.2c2a4242@aol.com> The human body is the best picture of the soul. Ludwig Wittgenstein --Philosophical Investigations From EugeneSchlanger at aol.com Thu Jun 19 12:26:18 2003 From: EugeneSchlanger at aol.com (EugeneSchlanger at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:26:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WSJ poetry query Message-ID: <0737A25F.0DECE65D.9E0587E4@aol.com> Mr. Lake, In response to your bulletin board query of 13 Feb 2003, are you still looking for these links?-- http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110003063 http://www.mathiasen.com/texts/wallstreetpoet.html Best, Eugene Schlanger From FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com Sun Jun 22 16:52:51 2003 From: FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com (FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:52:51 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] POETS Tom Devaney, Chris McCreary, Ethel Rackin, Molly Russakoff, Frank Sherlock Message-ID: <1f1.b902778.2c277123@aol.com> HAPPY SOLSTICE everyone! this is a reminder of the upcoming event! FREQUENCY AUDIO JOURNAL FUNDRAISER EVENT THIS FRIDAY June 27th, 7pm at MOLLY'S CAFE & BOOKSTORE http://www.mollysbooks.com 1010 South 9th Street located in the heart of Philadelphia's Italian Market (215)-923-3367 COME HEAR A ROUND-ROBIN WITH POETS Tom Devaney Chris McCreary Ethel Rackin Molly Russakoff Frank Sherlock lots of free cheap wine! the MORE you drink the MORE dough you'll put in the FREQUENCY pot! Here's more information on the other contributors, as well as subscription information: FREQUENCY AUDIO JOURNAL: The Debut Compact Disc edited by Magdalena Zurawski & CAConrad Track 1: I Feel Tractor Track 2: Caroline Bergvall Track 3: Alice Notley Track 4: Gil Ott Track 5: Gil Ott Track 6: Frank Sherlock Track 7: Alan Gilbert Track 8: Michael Gizzi Track 9: Molly Russakoff Track 10: Ange Mlinko Track 11: Jenn McCreary Track 12: I Feel Tractor Track 13: Jeni Olin Track 14: Jeni Olin Track 15: Aaron Kunin Track 16: Eileen Myles Track 17: Jennifer Coleman Track 18: Tom Devaney Track 19: Edwin Torres Track 20: hassen Track 21: hassen Track 22: Ethel Rackin Track 23: Chris McCreary Track 24: Greg Fuchs Track 25: I Feel Tractor Tracks 26-30: FEATURED POET Douglas Oliver ------------- TO SUBSCRIBE TO FREQUENCY AUDIO JOURNAL SEND $11 FOR DEBUT ISSUE (FORTHCOMING IN FALL OF 2003) $20 FOR DEBUT AND ISSUE #2 (FORTHCOMING IN 2004) $150 OR MORE FOR A LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION (FREQUENCY'S LIFETIME, NOT YOURS) INSTITUTIONAL SUBSCRIPTIONS: $22 PER ISSUE MAKE YOUR CHECK OR MONEY ORDER PAYABLE TO CAConrad, AND MAIL TO: FREQUENCY P.O. Box 22521 Philadelphia, PA 19110 PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR SNAIL MAIL AND E-MAIL ADDRESSES WITH ALL SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Tue Jun 24 20:51:11 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 20:51:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <106.24b2347a.2c2a4242@aol.com> Message-ID: <007101c33ab3$e06cf5a0$4f54fea9@j1c1k6> > The human body is the best picture of the soul. > > Ludwig Wittgenstein > --Philosophical Investigations I think I agreed with something Wittgenstein said once. This wasn't it. --Bob G. From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Tue Jun 24 21:09:41 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:09:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stark (naked) welcomes unsolicited submissions References: Message-ID: <3EF8F655.3AD34C@earthlink.net> Get down! I'm going to send them something. I'll draw transparent blue circles (when possible) around my best parts. Maybe I'll do the same with the poems, just in case their readers are conditioned in some way or another. - Jim JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > Stark welcomes unsolicited submissions of poetry. Please note that Stark is > a new poetry and photography journal. This submission call is for poetry > submissions for the premiere issue. > > What makes Stark unusual in a world of hundreds of print and electronic > literary magazines? Stark will be an art quality production with black and > white photos of the poets. Each poet that submits to Stark does so with the > understanding that, if selected, the poet will be asked to sit for a nude > photography session with a professional photographer. One or two photos > will be chosen by a committee of the editors, production manager, > photographer, and the poet. The poet must write about the experience, and > this poem may or may not be included in the collection. Two poems must be > selected by the editors from a poet's submission for a poet to be considered > for inclusion in Stark. Photographs will range from obscure, body parts, > face only, back only, to full pose, and must be agreed upon be all members > of the photography selection committee for each poet. You may preview the > photographers craft at www.randylagana.net. > > We consider manuscripts from July 1 to October 31 (postmark dates). All > submissions sent from November through June will be returned unread. We > adhere strictly to our postmark restrictions. Since we operate on a > first-received, first-read basis, we cannot make exceptions or hold work. > Sorry, but we do not take e-mail or computer-file submissions. Mail > submissions to: Stark, Hanover Press, P. O. Box 596, Newtown, CT > 06470-0596. > > Stark is published once a year. The editors seek a full representation of > the range and diversity of contemporary poetry. At the same time, we expect > every issue to reflect our overall standards of literary excellence. > > Mail three to four poems at a time. A cover letter citing publications and > awards, if any, is helpful. Poems should be individually typed either > single- or double-spaced on one side of the page. There are no preferences > in regards to names in headers or footers, or to staples or paper clips. > Please do not send multiple submissions and do not send another manuscript > until you hear about the first. > > All manuscripts and correspondence regarding submissions should be > accompanied by a self-addressed, stamped envelope (S.A.S.E.) for a response; > no replies will be given by e-mail or postcard. Expect three to five months > for a decision. Do not query us until five months have passed, and if you > do, please write to us, including an S.A.S.E. and indicating the postmark > date of submission, instead of calling or e-mailing. Simultaneous > submissions are amenable as long as they are indicated as such and we are > notified immediately upon acceptance elsewhere. We do not reprint previously > published work. We cannot be responsible for delay, loss, or damage. > > Payment is upon publication: one copy of the issue. Discounts for > additional copies available to poets published in that issue. > > For more information about literary magazines, consult directories such as > The Writer's Market and The International Directory of Literary Magazines > and Small Presses where you will find The Underwood Review - a literary and > arts journal by Hanover Press. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From MillB at aol.com Tue Jun 24 23:13:39 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:13:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Stark (naked) welcomes unsolicited submissions Message-ID: <4a.1ec59cef.2c2a6d63@aol.com> Get Out! Great idea. . . but how will the photographer travel to where the poets are? I guess the entry fees or the contributor copies will pave the way. . .and then some. Mill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier at localnet.com Wed Jun 25 09:45:26 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:45:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stark (naked) welcomes unsolicited submissions References: <3EF8F655.3AD34C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3EF9A775.76401C0B@localnet.com> Please sign me up for a copy. James Cervantes wrote: > Get down! I'm going to send them something. I'll draw transparent blue > circles (when possible) around my best parts. Maybe I'll do the same > with the poems, just in case their readers are conditioned in some way > or another. > > - Jim > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > Stark welcomes unsolicited submissions of poetry. Please note that Stark is > > a new poetry and photography journal. This submission call is for poetry > > submissions for the premiere issue. > > > > What makes Stark unusual in a world of hundreds of print and electronic > > literary magazines? Stark will be an art quality production with black and > > white photos of the poets. Each poet that submits to Stark does so with the > > understanding that, if selected, the poet will be asked to sit for a nude > > photography session with a professional photographer. One or two photos > > will be chosen by a committee of the editors, production manager, > > photographer, and the poet. The poet must write about the experience, and > > this poem may or may not be included in the collection. Two poems must be > > selected by the editors from a poet's submission for a poet to be considered > > for inclusion in Stark. Photographs will range from obscure, body parts, > > face only, back only, to full pose, and must be agreed upon be all members > > of the photography selection committee for each poet. You may preview the > > photographers craft at www.randylagana.net. > > > > We consider manuscripts from July 1 to October 31 (postmark dates). All > > submissions sent from November through June will be returned unread. We > > adhere strictly to our postmark restrictions. Since we operate on a > > first-received, first-read basis, we cannot make exceptions or hold work. > > Sorry, but we do not take e-mail or computer-file submissions. Mail > > submissions to: Stark, Hanover Press, P. O. Box 596, Newtown, CT > > 06470-0596. > > > > Stark is published once a year. The editors seek a full representation of > > the range and diversity of contemporary poetry. At the same time, we expect > > every issue to reflect our overall standards of literary excellence. > > > > Mail three to four poems at a time. A cover letter citing publications and > > awards, if any, is helpful. Poems should be individually typed either > > single- or double-spaced on one side of the page. There are no preferences > > in regards to names in headers or footers, or to staples or paper clips. > > Please do not send multiple submissions and do not send another manuscript > > until you hear about the first. > > > > All manuscripts and correspondence regarding submissions should be > > accompanied by a self-addressed, stamped envelope (S.A.S.E.) for a response; > > no replies will be given by e-mail or postcard. Expect three to five months > > for a decision. Do not query us until five months have passed, and if you > > do, please write to us, including an S.A.S.E. and indicating the postmark > > date of submission, instead of calling or e-mailing. Simultaneous > > submissions are amenable as long as they are indicated as such and we are > > notified immediately upon acceptance elsewhere. We do not reprint previously > > published work. We cannot be responsible for delay, loss, or damage. > > > > Payment is upon publication: one copy of the issue. Discounts for > > additional copies available to poets published in that issue. > > > > For more information about literary magazines, consult directories such as > > The Writer's Market and The International Directory of Literary Magazines > > and Small Presses where you will find The Underwood Review - a literary and > > arts journal by Hanover Press. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Cadaly at aol.com Wed Jun 25 10:51:00 2003 From: Cadaly at aol.com (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:51:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Gut Cult Message-ID: <5CE05990.7A84EC3A.00045B92@aol.com> Please visit GutCult Issue #2 http://www.gutcult.com In this issue: an interview with George Saunders poetry by Joyelle McSweeney, Joshua Beckman & Matt Rohrer, Peter Richards, Jon Minton, Sarah Mangold, Catherine Daly and many others fiction by Michael Martone, Bob Fuglei, Stephany Aulenback and others From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Jun 25 13:31:16 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:31:16 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stark (naked) welcomes unsolicited submissions In-Reply-To: <3EF9A775.76401C0B@localnet.com> Message-ID: Someone call Robert Mezey, editor of Naked Poetry. Also, better contact the editors at the publishing House called Nude Erections. Paul Lake on 6/25/03 8:45 AM, Helen Ruggieri at hruggier at localnet.com wrote: > Please sign me up for a copy. > > > > James Cervantes wrote: > >> Get down! I'm going to send them something. I'll draw transparent blue >> circles (when possible) around my best parts. Maybe I'll do the same >> with the poems, just in case their readers are conditioned in some way >> or another. >> >> - Jim >> >> JforJames at aol.com wrote: >>> >>> Stark welcomes unsolicited submissions of poetry. Please note that Stark is >>> a new poetry and photography journal. This submission call is for poetry >>> submissions for the premiere issue. >>> >>> What makes Stark unusual in a world of hundreds of print and electronic >>> literary magazines? Stark will be an art quality production with black and >>> white photos of the poets. Each poet that submits to Stark does so with the >>> understanding that, if selected, the poet will be asked to sit for a nude >>> photography session with a professional photographer. One or two photos >>> will be chosen by a committee of the editors, production manager, >>> photographer, and the poet. The poet must write about the experience, and >>> this poem may or may not be included in the collection. Two poems must be >>> selected by the editors from a poet's submission for a poet to be considered >>> for inclusion in Stark. Photographs will range from obscure, body parts, >>> face only, back only, to full pose, and must be agreed upon be all members >>> of the photography selection committee for each poet. You may preview the >>> photographers craft at www.randylagana.net. >>> >>> We consider manuscripts from July 1 to October 31 (postmark dates). All >>> submissions sent from November through June will be returned unread. We >>> adhere strictly to our postmark restrictions. Since we operate on a >>> first-received, first-read basis, we cannot make exceptions or hold work. >>> Sorry, but we do not take e-mail or computer-file submissions. Mail >>> submissions to: Stark, Hanover Press, P. O. Box 596, Newtown, CT >>> 06470-0596. >>> >>> Stark is published once a year. The editors seek a full representation of >>> the range and diversity of contemporary poetry. At the same time, we expect >>> every issue to reflect our overall standards of literary excellence. >>> >>> Mail three to four poems at a time. A cover letter citing publications and >>> awards, if any, is helpful. Poems should be individually typed either >>> single- or double-spaced on one side of the page. There are no preferences >>> in regards to names in headers or footers, or to staples or paper clips. >>> Please do not send multiple submissions and do not send another manuscript >>> until you hear about the first. >>> >>> All manuscripts and correspondence regarding submissions should be >>> accompanied by a self-addressed, stamped envelope (S.A.S.E.) for a response; >>> no replies will be given by e-mail or postcard. Expect three to five months >>> for a decision. Do not query us until five months have passed, and if you >>> do, please write to us, including an S.A.S.E. and indicating the postmark >>> date of submission, instead of calling or e-mailing. Simultaneous >>> submissions are amenable as long as they are indicated as such and we are >>> notified immediately upon acceptance elsewhere. We do not reprint previously >>> published work. We cannot be responsible for delay, loss, or damage. >>> >>> Payment is upon publication: one copy of the issue. Discounts for >>> additional copies available to poets published in that issue. >>> >>> For more information about literary magazines, consult directories such as >>> The Writer's Market and The International Directory of Literary Magazines >>> and Small Presses where you will find The Underwood Review - a literary and >>> arts journal by Hanover Press. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New-Poetry mailing list >>> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >>> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Jun 25 13:44:29 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:44:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Future of thought and speech control Message-ID: Page Three girls face veto from Brussels feminists By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Brussels and Tom Leonard (Filed: 25/06/2003) Advertisements that affront "human dignity" by demeaning women would be prohibited under proposals being drafted by the European Commission. Television programmes would also be censored to ensure there was no promotion of gender stereotypes. The plans, still in their infancy, are already provoking bitter dispute in Brussels and were described by one commission official yesterday as "lunatic". The proposals, which need the approval of the college of 20 commissioners before being put forward as a draft law, would force insurance companies to offer the same rates for pension annuities and car insurance regardless of gender, overriding the actuarial data used to calculate risk. Tabloid newspaper "Page Three" pictures would also be threatened. Most forms of gender discrimination - either for or against women - would become illegal, affecting welfare benefits, education and health insurance. But plans to ban London gentlemen's clubs have been abandoned as a step too far. The proposals were drafted by the European Union's employment and social affairs directorate, known in Brussels as one of the last outposts of "unreconstructed" 1970s Leftists. It is headed by Anna Diamantopoulou, Greece's socialist commissioner and an ardent feminist. But EU diplomats say she is a model of moderation compared to her top civil servant, Odile Quintin, viewed as a champion of France's militant trade unions. The driving force behind the proposal is Barbara Helfferich, a German feminist who was head of the European Women's Forum before joining Mrs Diamantopoulou's cabinet in charge of "gender equality". Fierce resistance is already building in the free-market wing of the European Commission, led by Italy's Mario Monti and Holland's Frits Bolkestein, who are in charge of competition policy and the single market. One official said: "This goes to the heart of insurance company business, which is to discriminate on the basis of actuarial data. It is a huge interference in the markets." Media regulators in Britain claimed yesterday that "human dignity" was already accorded sufficient respect in the existing rules for advertising and programmes. The Independent Television Commission, which polices standards of both programmes and commercials, said its own codes appeared to cover the same ground as the planned European Union legislation. It insisted that advertisers and programme makers had to be allowed creative freedom and to be able to use humour, even if it meant creating stereotypes that some found offensive. Mrs Diamantopoulou has so far succeeded in pushing through legislation such as a "Vibrations Directive" limiting the time farmers can spend on tractors and a "Noise Directive" restricting decibel levels in the workplace. If the new proposals are endorsed by the commission they will still need the assent of the European Parliament and EU governments under majority voting. Britain does not have a veto. John Mildenhall, managing director of the advertising agency TBWA, said any such regulation would meet with "massive resistance from advertisers and advertising agencies". He predicted that it would lead to greater "sterilisation" of the portrayal of women in advertising. "Advertising is unrealistic enough as it is in reflecting what women really talk about," he said. Recent research by TBWA found that the American series Sex and the City, in which women talk explicitly about sex, was the closest approximation on television of the conversations young women have together. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Jun 25 14:18:33 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:18:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] More on speech control Message-ID: June 25, 2003, 9:15 a.m. Club Codes The slippery slope hits the local Elks. By Eugene Volokh Watch what you say, or be ready to pay," a newspaper headline said about workplace harassment law some years ago. Well, now you should watch what you say in private clubs, as well as workplaces. Clubs are the new stop for the campaign to legally eradicate speech that offends based on race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, and so on. ?The Franklin Lodge of Elks in New Hampshire faced a controversy about whether women should be allowed to be members. During the controversy, some of the male members made offensive statements about the women who were trying to get in. The statements (which I don't endorse as a matter of ethics and morals) included some sexual slurs and face-to-face insults, but also the expression of sexist viewpoints: For instance, as the New Hampshire Commission on Human Rights said in its opinion, some male members were berated for their female family members' actions (e.g., a member "asked [an applicant's] husband why he couldn't control his 'little woman'"), and "the Elks' secretary wrote in the Elks' newsletter that the 'women's actions might destroy the lodge.'" Just two weeks ago, the New Hampshire supreme court affirmed the commission's decision, and held that the club was legally liable. And the court didn't just hold that the women were entitled under state law to be admitted to the club ? it also upheld the decision to assess damages against the club for its members' "sexual harassment" of the women plaintiffs. Speech that offends fellow club members based on sex, and presumably also on "age, . . . race, creed, color, martial status, physical or mental disability or national origin" or "sexual orientation," is now legally punishable. Of course, when clubs are held legally liable for their members' speech, they will naturally be forced to suppress such speech, to avoid this liability. (The total damages in the Elks case were $40,000, which amounted to over 25 percent of the club's yearly budget.) The goal of workplace harassment law is to prevent offensive speech, by pressuring employers to adopt workplace speech codes. "Public accommodations harassment law," which is being built by analogy to workplace harassment law, extends such legally coerced speech codes to private clubs and other places (such as restaurants, bars, and the like). All those places would now have to control their members' and patrons' speech. And nothing in harassment law is limited to slurs (the speech here included more than just personal epithets), or to campaigns to exclude members from a club. Workplace harassment is defined to cover a broad range of offensive speech: any speech (by the employer, coworkers, or even patrons) that is "severe or pervasive" enough to create a "hostile, abusive, or offensive environment" for a "reasonable person" and for the plaintiff based on race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, and so on. Allegedly bigoted political statements can qualify. So can allegedly offensive humor. So can offensive art. Now the same will presumably apply to clubs, too. A club's display of a painting containing nudity could now lead to hostile environment liability, just like display of sexually themed art in workplaces can lead to such liability. Likewise when club members say racially, sexually, or religiously themed jokes within earshot of other members who might be offended, or express allegedly bigoted political views. A South Dakota government publication already tells people that "racist or sexist statements displayed in a public accommodation which affect a person's ability to use and enjoy those accommodations" are illegal. Likewise, three years ago, the Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination found that an allegedly racist display in a bar was illegal, and fined the bar owner. To avoid spending tens of thousands of dollars in damages (plus attorney fees), clubs will have to err on the side of caution ? just as employers now have to ? and suppress any potentially offensive speech by club members. What about the First Amendment? Neither the commission nor the New Hampshire supreme court even mentioned it. It's as if the term "harassment" has become the universal solvent of constitutional rights. Call speech "offensive speech," and people realize that the U.S. Supreme Court has held that it must be protected, even when it expresses ideas that we believe are evil or rude. Call the same speech "sexual harassment," and the First Amendment is ignored. This incident is yet another example that the slippery slope is a real phenomenon. Harassment law got started by suppressing workplace sexual extortion, physical abuse, threats, and other misconduct that isn't protected by the First Amendment. But because of its breadth and vagueness, it got stretched to cover more speech, including political speech, social commentary, and art. And then by a process of analogy ? a powerful force in a legal system that's based on precedent ? the law broadened from workplaces to universities, restaurants, bars, and now private clubs. And the slippage may go still further: Once these sorts of broad restrictions are allowed, they themselves become analogies to be used to suppress still more speech. I'd like all organizations, including private clubs, to be welcoming places, where people are civil to each other. The statements in the Elks case have no place in polite company. Under the First Amendment, though, the proper way to deal with such offensive speech is through moral suasion and social pressure, not through legal coercion. This sort of social negotiation may often be painful and imperfect; but it is far better than the alternative. ? Eugene Volokh teaches First Amendment law at UCLA School of Law. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From marcus at designerglass.com Wed Jun 25 15:52:03 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:52:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Future of thought and speech control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3EF9C523.1582.FB4AD@localhost> This is from The Economist, well known for it's radical leftist sentiments and so hardly to be trusted. In the 7th paragraph, I've put in italics and bold print a bit that strikes me as interesting. In defence of elderly hippies Jun 19th 2003 | COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Jun 25 16:30:26 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:30:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Future of thought and speech control In-Reply-To: <3EF9C523.1582.FB4AD@localhost> Message-ID: on 6/25/03 2:52 PM, Marcus Bales at marcus at designerglass.com wrote: > Mr Bursey told the cops, defiantly, that he was under the impression > that > the whole of America was a free-speech zone. I agree with Mr. Bursey here. >?This is the type of small-brained decision that could only have been made by bureaucrats inside the Beltway,??? says the lanky Mr Nettles. Mr. Nettles should leave the Beltway and discover that the same small-brained decision is made by college administrations throughout the US. Let the First Amendment preside everywhere, for everyone. Paul Lake --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From marcus at designerglass.com Thu Jun 26 08:06:24 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:06:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Future of thought and speech control In-Reply-To: References: <3EF9C523.1582.FB4AD@localhost> Message-ID: <3EFAA980.25395.2ABD2C@localhost> On 25 Jun 2003 at 15:30, Paul Lake wrote: > >"This is the type of small-brained decision that could only have been made by > bureaucrats inside the Beltway," says the lanky Mr Nettles. > > Mr. Nettles should leave the Beltway and discover that the same > small-brained decision is made by college administrations throughout the US. > > Let the First Amendment preside everywhere, for everyone. Well, the first amendment doesn't apply to small-brained college administrators unless they work for a state or federal college because private schools are, well, private enterprises. It may be hypocritical to teach liberal arts in the classroom and repress free speech on school property, but it is not unconstitutional. Mr Bursey's arrest looks unconstitutional to me, and so does the law the SS uses to try to exclude people from political discourse where the President happens to be. The problem is that the small-brained administrators will get bolder in their misapplication of principle as the government progressively tries to undermine the first amendment rights of citizens to talk to, about, and in front of their government and its officials. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Thu Jun 26 08:14:18 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:14:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] found poem: "Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti . . ." Message-ID: <3EFAE39A.E805B25C@earthlink.net> Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti, restricted to entries in which the poet, in translation, is referred to as "it" 1920: It is born in Passage of the Bulls, Department of Tacuaremb? (Uruguay), the 14 of September. 1928: It initiates his primary studies in the German School of Montevideo. 1934: It enters the School Raums?lica de Logosof?a. 1948: It directs the literary magazine Marginalia. It publishes the volume of tests Eventful journey and novel. 1950: It only publishes meanwhile (poetry), published by Number. 1952: It participates actively in the movement against the Military Deal with the United States. First action of militant is his. 1957: It travels for the first time to Europe, visiting nine countries, correspondent of March and the Newspaper. 1959: It appears its volume of Montevideanos stories, touchstone of the urban and "montevideana" conception of narrative Literature. It travels to the United States, where it remains during five months. 1960: It publishes the truce, novel that will be published in twenty countries, translated to thirteen languages and transferred to the theater, the radio, the television and the cinema. Also it publishes the country of the straw tail, test on "the moral" crisis by which it crossed the country. 1961: It compiles humoristic chronicles, signed by Damocles, in the Best volume is meneallo. 1964: It goes to the weekly literary page "To the foot of the letters" of the newspaper the morning and publishes critic of theater in the same newspaper. It collaborates like humorist in the Peloduro magazine. 1965: It publishes the novel Thanks for the fire. It writes critical of cinema in the popular tribune. 1966: It travels to Havana to participate in the novel jury of the aid House from the Am?ricasy to Paris, where it resides during a year. 1967: It publishes Letters of the racially mixed continent in which it reunites to tests and referred articles to Latin American Literature. It returns to Cuba to participate in the jury of the aid House of the Am?ricas. It participates in the encounter with Rub?n Dar?o. 1969: It travels to Algiers, guest to the First Cultural Festival Panafricano. It publishes Cuban Notebook that includes poems, articles and interviews with regard to Cuba and of its professional experience in that country. 1971: Cover, along with other the Independent citizens Uruguayan, Movement of?26 of March? that it will integrate, little later, the coalition of lefts Extended front. It publishes the birthday of Juan Angel. It is named director of the Department of Hispano-American Literature in the Faculty of Humanities and Sciences of the University of Montevideo. 1972: It publishes Chronicle of the 71, composed of published political editorials in the weekly March in his majority, an unpublished poem and three speeches pronounced during the campaign of the Extended front. Also it publishes comunicantes poems, with interviews to diverse Latin American poets. 1973: As a result of the military coup resignation to its position in the university and must leave the country for political reasons. Exilia to Buenos Aires. 1974: It publishes the Latin American writer and the possible revolution. 1976: It returns to Cuba, this exiliado time like, and reincorpora to the Council of Direction of House of the Am?ricas. 1977: They appear its book of stories With and without nostalgia and the one of poems the house and the brick. 1979: It publishes Pedro and the Captain (theater work), and Daily (poetry). 1980: It is transferred to Palma de Mallorca. It begins to write its novel Spring with a broken corner. 1981: It publishes its poetry book Wind of exile. 1982: It publishes Spring with a broken corner and its anthology Stories. It initiates its weekly collaboration in the?Opini?n pages? of the newspaper the Country. The Council of State of Cuba grants to the Order Felix to him Varela. 1984: Film version of Pedro and the Captain. The Ictus theater of Santiago of Chile adapts to the scene its novel Spring with a broken corner. 1985: With the restoration of the democracy in Uruguay it returns to the country. As of this moment a part of the year in Montevideo and the other in Madrid will reside. 1986: It appears Complete Stories and Questions at random (poetry). 1987: Awarded in Brussels by Amnesty International with Gold prize Llama by its novel Spring with a broken corner. 1988: It publishes its book tomorrow Yesterday poem and. 1989: It publishes its story book, Confusions and franquezas and the one of test the culture that movable target. In the volume Songs of it reunites its numerous letters of songs More Here that are gotten up to the repertoire of more than forty singers. Decorated with the medal Hayde? Santamar?a by the Council of State of Cuba. As significant examples of the great diffusion of their work are possible to indicate that in this year the truce arrives at 75? edition, Thanks for the fire, to 46?, the birthday of Juan Angel, to 30?, Inventory, to 31?, Pedro and the captain, to 15? and the death and other surprises, to 27?. 1991: It publishes the poem book the solitudes of Babel and the reality and the word, an approach to the great subjects of the contemporary reflection, located in Latin America, and an interesting route by the main authors and currents of South American Literature. 1993: It inaugurates in the University of Alicante the Congress? Literatura and urban space. It publishes the flock of the coffee. 1994: It appears in Madrid Inventory 2 (1985-1994), compilation of its poetic work. distributes in the University of Alicante the course of creative doctorate introduces to us in its world. 1995: It appears in Spain his compilation complete Stories and the set of tests the exercise of the criterion. 1996: The biography made by Mario Paoletti Mario Benedetti, the kill-joy is published in Montevideo and Spain. Recital?A two voices? with Daniel Viglietti in the University of Alicante.In Argentina one publishes volume 28 of complete Works and the novel Scaffolds. *Source: sololiteratura.com/benedettiprincipal.htm ** Why? Because some work from this still living poet will be published in the Fall, 2003 issue of The Salt River Review. From tadrichards at prodigy.net Thu Jun 26 08:42:56 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:42:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] found poem: "Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti . . ." References: <3EFAE39A.E805B25C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003201c33be0$783db950$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> This has an odd majesty to it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:14 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] found poem: "Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti . . ." Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti, restricted to entries in which the poet, in translation, is referred to as "it" 1920: It is born in Passage of the Bulls, Department of Tacuaremb? (Uruguay), the 14 of September. 1928: It initiates his primary studies in the German School of Montevideo. 1934: It enters the School Raums?lica de Logosof?a. 1948: It directs the literary magazine Marginalia. It publishes the volume of tests Eventful journey and novel. 1950: It only publishes meanwhile (poetry), published by Number. 1952: It participates actively in the movement against the Military Deal with the United States. First action of militant is his. 1957: It travels for the first time to Europe, visiting nine countries, correspondent of March and the Newspaper. 1959: It appears its volume of Montevideanos stories, touchstone of the urban and "montevideana" conception of narrative Literature. It travels to the United States, where it remains during five months. 1960: It publishes the truce, novel that will be published in twenty countries, translated to thirteen languages and transferred to the theater, the radio, the television and the cinema. Also it publishes the country of the straw tail, test on "the moral" crisis by which it crossed the country. 1961: It compiles humoristic chronicles, signed by Damocles, in the Best volume is meneallo. 1964: It goes to the weekly literary page "To the foot of the letters" of the newspaper the morning and publishes critic of theater in the same newspaper. It collaborates like humorist in the Peloduro magazine. 1965: It publishes the novel Thanks for the fire. It writes critical of cinema in the popular tribune. 1966: It travels to Havana to participate in the novel jury of the aid House from the Am?ricasy to Paris, where it resides during a year. 1967: It publishes Letters of the racially mixed continent in which it reunites to tests and referred articles to Latin American Literature. It returns to Cuba to participate in the jury of the aid House of the Am?ricas. It participates in the encounter with Rub?n Dar?o. 1969: It travels to Algiers, guest to the First Cultural Festival Panafricano. It publishes Cuban Notebook that includes poems, articles and interviews with regard to Cuba and of its professional experience in that country. 1971: Cover, along with other the Independent citizens Uruguayan, Movement of?26 of March? that it will integrate, little later, the coalition of lefts Extended front. It publishes the birthday of Juan Angel. It is named director of the Department of Hispano-American Literature in the Faculty of Humanities and Sciences of the University of Montevideo. 1972: It publishes Chronicle of the 71, composed of published political editorials in the weekly March in his majority, an unpublished poem and three speeches pronounced during the campaign of the Extended front. Also it publishes comunicantes poems, with interviews to diverse Latin American poets. 1973: As a result of the military coup resignation to its position in the university and must leave the country for political reasons. Exilia to Buenos Aires. 1974: It publishes the Latin American writer and the possible revolution. 1976: It returns to Cuba, this exiliado time like, and reincorpora to the Council of Direction of House of the Am?ricas. 1977: They appear its book of stories With and without nostalgia and the one of poems the house and the brick. 1979: It publishes Pedro and the Captain (theater work), and Daily (poetry). 1980: It is transferred to Palma de Mallorca. It begins to write its novel Spring with a broken corner. 1981: It publishes its poetry book Wind of exile. 1982: It publishes Spring with a broken corner and its anthology Stories. It initiates its weekly collaboration in the?Opini?n pages? of the newspaper the Country. The Council of State of Cuba grants to the Order Felix to him Varela. 1984: Film version of Pedro and the Captain. The Ictus theater of Santiago of Chile adapts to the scene its novel Spring with a broken corner. 1985: With the restoration of the democracy in Uruguay it returns to the country. As of this moment a part of the year in Montevideo and the other in Madrid will reside. 1986: It appears Complete Stories and Questions at random (poetry). 1987: Awarded in Brussels by Amnesty International with Gold prize Llama by its novel Spring with a broken corner. 1988: It publishes its book tomorrow Yesterday poem and. 1989: It publishes its story book, Confusions and franquezas and the one of test the culture that movable target. In the volume Songs of it reunites its numerous letters of songs More Here that are gotten up to the repertoire of more than forty singers. Decorated with the medal Hayde? Santamar?a by the Council of State of Cuba. As significant examples of the great diffusion of their work are possible to indicate that in this year the truce arrives at 75? edition, Thanks for the fire, to 46?, the birthday of Juan Angel, to 30?, Inventory, to 31?, Pedro and the captain, to 15? and the death and other surprises, to 27?. 1991: It publishes the poem book the solitudes of Babel and the reality and the word, an approach to the great subjects of the contemporary reflection, located in Latin America, and an interesting route by the main authors and currents of South American Literature. 1993: It inaugurates in the University of Alicante the Congress? Literatura and urban space. It publishes the flock of the coffee. 1994: It appears in Madrid Inventory 2 (1985-1994), compilation of its poetic work. distributes in the University of Alicante the course of creative doctorate introduces to us in its world. 1995: It appears in Spain his compilation complete Stories and the set of tests the exercise of the criterion. 1996: The biography made by Mario Paoletti Mario Benedetti, the kill-joy is published in Montevideo and Spain. Recital?A two voices? with Daniel Viglietti in the University of Alicante.In Argentina one publishes volume 28 of complete Works and the novel Scaffolds. *Source: sololiteratura.com/benedettiprincipal.htm ** Why? Because some work from this still living poet will be published in the Fall, 2003 issue of The Salt River Review. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From wjbat at conncoll.edu Thu Jun 26 10:25:28 2003 From: wjbat at conncoll.edu (Wendy Battin) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:25:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. In-Reply-To: <106.24b2347a.2c2a4242@aol.com> Message-ID: <20030626102528.003294@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> >The human body is the best picture of the soul. > >Ludwig Wittgenstein --Philosophical Investigations I've always been in favor of poets having bodies, but I gather that's a controversial position. Wendy, not sorry ------------------------ Wendy Battin wjbat at conncoll.edu The stone is a mirror which works poorly. Nothing in it but dimness. Your dimness or its dim- ness, who's to say? --Charles Simic From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Thu Jun 26 10:42:21 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <20030626144222.0D753458E@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From FanwoodJEL at aol.com Thu Jun 26 10:54:34 2003 From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:54:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <15b.205206e0.2c2c632a@aol.com> In a message dated 6/26/2003 10:48:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com writes: > Wendy, > > You wrote: "I've always been in favor of poets having bodies, but I gather > that's a controversial position." > > > Wendy, not sorry > > Bob replies: "Wendy, some positions are more controversial than others, > especially those regarding bodies." > True, but hey, see the Supreme Court decision in Lawrence v. Texas, just announced: http://www.nytimes.com From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Jun 26 12:47:12 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:47:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Future of thought and speech control In-Reply-To: <3EFAA980.25395.2ABD2C@localhost> Message-ID: We're in complete agreement here. Free speech shouldn't be muzzled, esp. by the government, whether it's the US Justice Department or EU bureaucrats. Paul Lake on 6/26/03 7:06 AM, Marcus Bales at marcus at designerglass.com wrote: > On 25 Jun 2003 at 15:30, Paul Lake wrote: >>> "This is the type of small-brained decision that could only have been made >>> by >> bureaucrats inside the Beltway," says the lanky Mr Nettles. >> >> Mr. Nettles should leave the Beltway and discover that the same >> small-brained decision is made by college administrations throughout the US. >> >> Let the First Amendment preside everywhere, for everyone. > > Well, the first amendment doesn't apply to small-brained college > administrators unless they work for a state or federal college > because private schools are, well, private enterprises. It may be > hypocritical to teach liberal arts in the classroom and repress free > speech on school property, but it is not unconstitutional. > > Mr Bursey's arrest looks unconstitutional to me, and so does the law > the SS uses to try to exclude people from political discourse where > the President happens to be. > > The problem is that the small-brained administrators will get bolder > in their misapplication of principle as the government progressively > tries to undermine the first amendment rights of citizens to talk to, > about, and in front of their government and its officials. > > > Marcus Bales > > marcus at designerglass.com > http://www.designerglass.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Thu Jun 26 13:34:32 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:34:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <20030626102528.003294@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Message-ID: <3EFB2EA8.67287325@earthlink.net> I think it's a knee-jerk reaction to The School of Disembodied Poetics. I'm going to send them some work, thus a rejection will constitute non-stripping. An acceptance? Well, there are body doubles. Heh heh. - Jim Wendy Battin wrote: > > >The human body is the best picture of the soul. > > > >Ludwig Wittgenstein --Philosophical Investigations > > I've always been in favor of poets having bodies, but I gather that's a > controversial position. > > Wendy, not sorry > > ------------------------ > Wendy Battin > wjbat at conncoll.edu > > The stone is a mirror which works poorly. > Nothing in it but dimness. Your dimness or its dim- > ness, who's to say? > --Charles Simic > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From marcus at designerglass.com Thu Jun 26 13:43:43 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:43:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Found Poem: speaking of food and drink In-Reply-To: <005e01c336cc$6b2dd560$0b3dfea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <3EFAF88F.32004.15F99F0@localhost> Found Poem: Speaking of Food and Drink The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Canadians, British or Americans. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Canadians, British or Americans. The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Canadians, British or Americans. The Italians drink large amounts of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Canadians, British or Americans. The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than the Canadians, British or Americans. Eat and drink what you like -- apparently what kills you is speaking English Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Thu Jun 26 14:00:39 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 11:00:39 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] found poem: "Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti . . ." References: <3EFAE39A.E805B25C@earthlink.net> <003201c33be0$783db950$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <3EFB34C5.E4A83874@earthlink.net> Yes, and partly because of the crude translation vis Google's "translate this page." My favorites are: "It is born in Passage of the Bulls" " It publishes the volume of tests Eventful journey and novel." "It participates actively in the movement against the Military Deal with the United States" " It publishes the truce" "Also it publishes the country of the straw tail" "It goes to the weekly literary page'To the foot of the letters' of the newspaper" Well, there are many, but you get the drift. There's a found poem within the found poem that is oddly like the past commenting on the present. - Jim TheOldMole wrote: > > This has an odd majesty to it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Cervantes" > To: "new-poetry" > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:14 AM > Subject: [New-Poetry] found poem: "Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti > . . ." > > Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti, restricted to entries in which > the poet, in translation, is referred to as "it" > > 1920: It is born in Passage of the Bulls, Department of Tacuaremb? > (Uruguay), the 14 of September. > 1928: It initiates his primary studies in the German School of Montevideo. > 1934: It enters the School Raums?lica de Logosof?a. > 1948: It directs the literary magazine Marginalia. It publishes the > volume of tests Eventful journey and novel. > 1950: It only publishes meanwhile (poetry), published by Number. > 1952: It participates actively in the movement against the Military Deal > with the United States. First action of militant is his. > > 1957: It travels for the first time to Europe, visiting nine countries, > correspondent of March and the Newspaper. > 1959: It appears its volume of Montevideanos stories, touchstone of the > urban and "montevideana" conception of narrative Literature. It travels > to the United States, where it remains during five months. > 1960: It publishes the truce, novel that will be published in twenty > countries, translated to thirteen languages and transferred to the > theater, the radio, the television and the cinema. > Also it publishes the country of the straw tail, test on "the moral" > crisis by which it crossed the country. > 1961: It compiles humoristic chronicles, signed by Damocles, in the Best > volume is meneallo. > 1964: It goes to the weekly literary page "To the foot of the letters" > of the newspaper the morning and publishes critic of theater in the same > newspaper. It collaborates like humorist in the Peloduro magazine. > 1965: It publishes the novel Thanks for the fire. It writes critical of > cinema in the popular tribune. > 1966: It travels to Havana to participate in the novel jury of the aid > House from the Am?ricasy to Paris, where it resides during a year. > 1967: It publishes Letters of the racially mixed continent in which it > reunites to tests and referred articles to Latin American Literature. It > returns to Cuba to participate in the jury of the aid House of the > Am?ricas. It participates in the encounter with Rub?n Dar?o. > 1969: It travels to Algiers, guest to the First Cultural Festival > Panafricano. It publishes Cuban Notebook that includes poems, articles > and interviews with regard to Cuba and of its professional experience in > that country. > 1971: Cover, along with other the Independent citizens Uruguayan, > Movement of?26 of March? that it will integrate, little later, the > coalition of lefts Extended front. It publishes the birthday of Juan > Angel. It is named director of the Department of Hispano-American > Literature in the Faculty of Humanities and Sciences of the University > of Montevideo. > 1972: It publishes Chronicle of the 71, composed of published political > editorials in the weekly March in his majority, an unpublished poem and > three speeches pronounced during the campaign of the Extended front. > Also it publishes comunicantes poems, with interviews to diverse Latin > American poets. > 1973: As a result of the military coup resignation to its position in > the university and must leave the country for political reasons. Exilia > to Buenos Aires. > 1974: It publishes the Latin American writer and the possible revolution. > 1976: It returns to Cuba, this exiliado time like, and reincorpora to > the Council of Direction of House of the Am?ricas. > 1977: They appear its book of stories With and without nostalgia and the > one of poems the house and the brick. > 1979: It publishes Pedro and the Captain (theater work), and Daily (poetry). > 1980: It is transferred to Palma de Mallorca. It begins to write its > novel Spring with a broken corner. > 1981: It publishes its poetry book Wind of exile. > 1982: It publishes Spring with a broken corner and its anthology > Stories. It initiates its weekly collaboration in the?Opini?n pages? of > the newspaper the Country. The Council of State of Cuba grants to the > Order Felix to him Varela. > 1984: Film version of Pedro and the Captain. The Ictus theater of > Santiago of Chile adapts to the scene its novel Spring with a broken > corner. > 1985: With the restoration of the democracy in Uruguay it returns to the > country. As of this moment a part of the year in Montevideo and the > other in Madrid will reside. > 1986: It appears Complete Stories and Questions at random (poetry). > 1987: Awarded in Brussels by Amnesty International with Gold prize Llama > by its novel Spring with a broken corner. > 1988: It publishes its book tomorrow Yesterday poem and. > 1989: It publishes its story book, Confusions and franquezas and the one > of test the culture that movable target. In the volume Songs of it > reunites its numerous letters of songs More Here that are gotten up to > the repertoire of more than forty singers. Decorated with the medal > Hayde? Santamar?a by the Council of State of Cuba. As significant > examples of the great diffusion of their work are possible to indicate > that in this year the truce arrives at 75? edition, Thanks for the fire, > to 46?, the birthday of Juan Angel, to 30?, Inventory, to 31?, Pedro and > the captain, to 15? and the death and other surprises, to 27?. > 1991: It publishes the poem book the solitudes of Babel and the reality > and the word, an approach to the great subjects of the contemporary > reflection, located in Latin America, and an interesting route by the > main authors and currents of South American Literature. > 1993: It inaugurates in the University of Alicante the Congress? > Literatura and urban space. It publishes the flock of the coffee. > 1994: It appears in Madrid Inventory 2 (1985-1994), compilation of its > poetic work. distributes in the University of Alicante the course of > creative doctorate introduces to us in its world. > 1995: It appears in Spain his compilation complete Stories and the set > of tests the exercise of the criterion. > 1996: The biography made by Mario Paoletti Mario Benedetti, the kill-joy > is published in Montevideo and Spain. Recital?A two voices? with Daniel > Viglietti in the University of Alicante.In Argentina one publishes > volume 28 of complete Works and the novel Scaffolds. > > *Source: sololiteratura.com/benedettiprincipal.htm > > ** Why? Because some work from this still living poet will be published > in the Fall, 2003 issue of The Salt River Review. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Thu Jun 26 17:01:17 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:01:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <20.1446388f.2c2cb91d@aol.com> In a message dated 6/26/03 1:41:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jvcervantes at earthlink.net writes: > I think it's a knee-jerk reaction to The School of Disembodied Poetics. > > I'm going to send them some work, thus a rejection will constitute > non-stripping. An acceptance? Well, there are body doubles. Heh heh. > > - Jim In only a half century we've gone from Naked Poetry to Get Naked Poetry. I refuse to be photographed tastefully, but upon acceptance I would be willing to submit some grainy Polaroids to the editorial committee. Finnegan From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Jun 26 17:15:55 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:15:55 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] found poem: "Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti . . ." References: <3EFAE39A.E805B25C@earthlink.net> <003201c33be0$783db950$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> <3EFB34C5.E4A83874@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00e701c33c28$2190c500$42607550@anny> Hi James, yes, I also wanted to cut and paste some passages, read it all with interest, anny From: "James Cervantes" > Yes, and partly because of the crude translation vis Google's "translate > this page." My favorites are: > > "It is born in Passage of the Bulls" > " It publishes the volume of tests Eventful journey and novel." > "It participates actively in the movement against the Military Deal with > the United States" > " It publishes the truce" > "Also it publishes the country of the straw tail" > "It goes to the weekly literary page'To the foot of the letters' of the newspaper" > > Well, there are many, but you get the drift. There's a found poem > within the found poem that is oddly like the past commenting on the present. > > - Jim > > TheOldMole wrote: > > > > This has an odd majesty to it. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "James Cervantes" > > To: "new-poetry" > > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:14 AM > > Subject: [New-Poetry] found poem: "Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti > > . . ." > > > > Biographical Notes de D. Mario Benedetti, restricted to entries in which > > the poet, in translation, is referred to as "it" > > > > 1920: It is born in Passage of the Bulls, Department of Tacuaremb? > > (Uruguay), the 14 of September. > > 1928: It initiates his primary studies in the German School of Montevideo. > > 1934: It enters the School Raums?lica de Logosof?a. > > 1948: It directs the literary magazine Marginalia. It publishes the > > volume of tests Eventful journey and novel. > > 1950: It only publishes meanwhile (poetry), published by Number. > > 1952: It participates actively in the movement against the Military Deal > > with the United States. First action of militant is his. > > > > 1957: It travels for the first time to Europe, visiting nine countries, > > correspondent of March and the Newspaper. > > 1959: It appears its volume of Montevideanos stories, touchstone of the > > urban and "montevideana" conception of narrative Literature. It travels > > to the United States, where it remains during five months. > > 1960: It publishes the truce, novel that will be published in twenty > > countries, translated to thirteen languages and transferred to the > > theater, the radio, the television and the cinema. > > Also it publishes the country of the straw tail, test on "the moral" > > crisis by which it crossed the country. > > 1961: It compiles humoristic chronicles, signed by Damocles, in the Best > > volume is meneallo. > > 1964: It goes to the weekly literary page "To the foot of the letters" > > of the newspaper the morning and publishes critic of theater in the same > > newspaper. It collaborates like humorist in the Peloduro magazine. > > 1965: It publishes the novel Thanks for the fire. It writes critical of > > cinema in the popular tribune. > > 1966: It travels to Havana to participate in the novel jury of the aid > > House from the Am?ricasy to Paris, where it resides during a year. > > 1967: It publishes Letters of the racially mixed continent in which it > > reunites to tests and referred articles to Latin American Literature. It > > returns to Cuba to participate in the jury of the aid House of the > > Am?ricas. It participates in the encounter with Rub?n Dar?o. > > 1969: It travels to Algiers, guest to the First Cultural Festival > > Panafricano. It publishes Cuban Notebook that includes poems, articles > > and interviews with regard to Cuba and of its professional experience in > > that country. > > 1971: Cover, along with other the Independent citizens Uruguayan, > > Movement of?26 of March? that it will integrate, little later, the > > coalition of lefts Extended front. It publishes the birthday of Juan > > Angel. It is named director of the Department of Hispano-American > > Literature in the Faculty of Humanities and Sciences of the University > > of Montevideo. > > 1972: It publishes Chronicle of the 71, composed of published political > > editorials in the weekly March in his majority, an unpublished poem and > > three speeches pronounced during the campaign of the Extended front. > > Also it publishes comunicantes poems, with interviews to diverse Latin > > American poets. > > 1973: As a result of the military coup resignation to its position in > > the university and must leave the country for political reasons. Exilia > > to Buenos Aires. > > 1974: It publishes the Latin American writer and the possible revolution. > > 1976: It returns to Cuba, this exiliado time like, and reincorpora to > > the Council of Direction of House of the Am?ricas. > > 1977: They appear its book of stories With and without nostalgia and the > > one of poems the house and the brick. > > 1979: It publishes Pedro and the Captain (theater work), and Daily (poetry). > > 1980: It is transferred to Palma de Mallorca. It begins to write its > > novel Spring with a broken corner. > > 1981: It publishes its poetry book Wind of exile. > > 1982: It publishes Spring with a broken corner and its anthology > > Stories. It initiates its weekly collaboration in the?Opini?n pages? of > > the newspaper the Country. The Council of State of Cuba grants to the > > Order Felix to him Varela. > > 1984: Film version of Pedro and the Captain. The Ictus theater of > > Santiago of Chile adapts to the scene its novel Spring with a broken > > corner. > > 1985: With the restoration of the democracy in Uruguay it returns to the > > country. As of this moment a part of the year in Montevideo and the > > other in Madrid will reside. > > 1986: It appears Complete Stories and Questions at random (poetry). > > 1987: Awarded in Brussels by Amnesty International with Gold prize Llama > > by its novel Spring with a broken corner. > > 1988: It publishes its book tomorrow Yesterday poem and. > > 1989: It publishes its story book, Confusions and franquezas and the one > > of test the culture that movable target. In the volume Songs of it > > reunites its numerous letters of songs More Here that are gotten up to > > the repertoire of more than forty singers. Decorated with the medal > > Hayde? Santamar?a by the Council of State of Cuba. As significant > > examples of the great diffusion of their work are possible to indicate > > that in this year the truce arrives at 75? edition, Thanks for the fire, > > to 46?, the birthday of Juan Angel, to 30?, Inventory, to 31?, Pedro and > > the captain, to 15? and the death and other surprises, to 27?. > > 1991: It publishes the poem book the solitudes of Babel and the reality > > and the word, an approach to the great subjects of the contemporary > > reflection, located in Latin America, and an interesting route by the > > main authors and currents of South American Literature. > > 1993: It inaugurates in the University of Alicante the Congress? > > Literatura and urban space. It publishes the flock of the coffee. > > 1994: It appears in Madrid Inventory 2 (1985-1994), compilation of its > > poetic work. distributes in the University of Alicante the course of > > creative doctorate introduces to us in its world. > > 1995: It appears in Spain his compilation complete Stories and the set > > of tests the exercise of the criterion. > > 1996: The biography made by Mario Paoletti Mario Benedetti, the kill-joy > > is published in Montevideo and Spain. Recital?A two voices? with Daniel > > Viglietti in the University of Alicante.In Argentina one publishes > > volume 28 of complete Works and the novel Scaffolds. > > > > *Source: sololiteratura.com/benedettiprincipal.htm > > > > ** Why? Because some work from this still living poet will be published > > in the Fall, 2003 issue of The Salt River Review. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Jun 26 17:27:23 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:27:23 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Found Poem: speaking of food and drink References: <3EFAF88F.32004.15F99F0@localhost> Message-ID: <00ed01c33c29$bbe86080$42607550@anny> Never listen to docs, Bales, (hope there aren't any around here), or statistics... I like the end you choose, but the truth is, especially for Americans, the way they live, the amount of work carried out, and maybe also the ingenuity behind it all, their fundamental goodness (read: lack of meanness). As far as I know, Japanese try to compete in the area of work, some might soon also suffer from heart attacks, even if their different approach to life will save many. A cut to ads would solve some problems, and the shift to computers will save some, as long as spams are not used to sell French Fries, or whiskey, care, anny From: "Marcus Bales" > Found Poem: Speaking of Food and Drink > > The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer > fewer heart attacks than > the Canadians, British or Americans. > > The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer > fewer heart attacks than > the Canadians, British or Americans. > > The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer > fewer heart attacks than > the Canadians, British or Americans. > > The Italians drink large amounts of red wine and suffer > fewer heart attacks than > the Canadians, British or Americans. > > The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat > lots of sausages and fats and suffer > fewer heart attacks than > the Canadians, British or Americans. > > Eat and drink what you like -- > apparently what kills you is > speaking English > > Marcus Bales > > marcus at designerglass.com > http://www.designerglass.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Thu Jun 26 20:29:30 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:29:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bush's Vietnam -- & a Poem Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030626191517.011ced80@mail.ilstu.edu> http://tinyurl.com/fdsz John Pilger -- first published June 22 in New Statesman. And a poem for those (literate) members of the GOP party here (Gas & Oil Party): [but as Republicans aren't too good at reading, let me point out a few lines for you, this is the Fox News Version of Rupert B's poem, so you should like it]: " And heard our word, 'Who is so safe as we?' " That's the only line YALL need to know. Rest of the poem's written by a Ba'athist Communiss Vietcong Taliban Saddam Loyaliss Rupert Brooke (1887-1915) 1914 II. Safety Dear! of all happy in the hour, most blest He who has found our hid security, Assured in the dark tides of the world that rest, And heard our word, 'Who is so safe as we?' We have found safety with all things undying, The winds, and morning, tears of men and mirth, The deep night, and birds singing, and clouds flying, And sleep, and freedom, and the autumnal earth. We have built a house that is not for Time's throwing. We have gained a peace unshaken by pain for ever. War knows no power. Safe shall be my going, Secretly armed against all death's endeavour; Safe though all safety's lost; safe where men fall; And if these poor limbs die, safest of all. _____________________________________________________ "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 gmguddi at ilstu.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Jun 26 21:05:56 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:05:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <1e1.c17cc8b.2c2cf274@aol.com> > The School of Full-Frontal Embodied Poetics EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (June 26) - A scanner the government is testing for airport screening reveals much more than meets the eye to be comfortable for most passengers. Susan Hallowell, director of the Transportation Security Administration's security laboratory, sacrificed a large measure of her own modesty Wednesday to demonstrate the problem. She stepped into a metal booth that bounced X-rays off her skin to produce a black-and-white image that revealed enough to produce a world-class blush. Her dark skirt and blazer disappeared on the monitor, where she showed up naked - except for the gun and bomb she had hidden under her outfit. ``It does basically make you look fat and naked, but you see all this stuff,'' Hallowell said. The agency hopes to modify the machines with an electronic fig leaf - programming that fuzzes out sensitive body parts or distorts the body so it does not appear so, well, graphic. Another option would be to restrict the screener to a booth so no passing peepers can see the image, said Randal Null, the agency's chief technology officer. Null hopes to conduct pilot programs with the machines at several airports this year. A test run with volunteers at Orlando International Airport in Florida met with mixed results, he said. Some were uncomfortable with the technology - called ``backscatter'' because it scatters X-rays - while others proclaimed it ``a whole lot nicer than having someone pat me down,'' he said. David Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington, thinks most people will object to the technology. ``The public is willing to accept a certain amount of scrutiny at the airport, but there are clearly limits to the degree of invasion that is acceptable,'' Sobel said. ``It's hard to understand why something this invasive is necessary.'' Magnetometers now in use at airports cannot detect plastic weapons or substances used in explosives. With backscatter technology, rays deflected off dense materials such as metal or plastic produce a darker image than those deflected off skin. The radiation dosage is about the same as sunshine, Hallowell said. Backscatter machines have been available for years, priced between $100,000 and $200,000. They have been used to screen prisoners' families and South African diamond miners going home for the day. Rep. John Mica, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure subcommittee on aviation, wants to persuade colleagues to focus research on technology that identifies items on people's bodies. ``The chances of someone bringing an explosive on an aircraft by walking through a metal detector or in hand-carried luggage are very real,'' said Mica, R-Fla. Mica pointed out that Richard Reid, convicted of trying to blow up a trans-Atlantic jetliner with explosives in his shoes, walked through metal detectors at Orly Airport in Paris several times before boarding the plane. Null said the biggest problem with the backscatter machines may be their size. One version, the BodySearch system made by Billerica, Mass.-based American Science & Engineering, is about 4-feet by 7-feet by 10-feet - awfully big for an airport lobby, Null said. Another system made by Hawthorne, Calif.-based OSI Systems is more compact. 06/26/03 10:47 EDT Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 26 21:24:14 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:24:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <20030626102528.003294@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Message-ID: <00a801c33c4a$d2a3c320$0b29fea9@j1c1k6> > >The human body is the best picture of the soul. > > > >Ludwig Wittgenstein --Philosophical Investigations > > I've always been in favor of poets having bodies, but I gather that's a > controversial position. > > > Wendy, not sorry Did I miss a post to this thread? What does what Ludwig said have to do with whether or not poets have bodies? --Bob G. From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Thu Jun 26 21:28:44 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 18:28:44 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <1e1.c17cc8b.2c2cf274@aol.com> Message-ID: <3EFB9DCA.674C7A4B@earthlink.net> Well, as the guinea pig said, ``It does basically make you look fat and naked, but you see all this stuff.'' So, maybe we need all sorts of poetics in this new light (attn: Grumman), such as "full-bodied poetics" (attn: expansionists), "skin and bone poetics" (nah, Bly's done that), "prosthetics poetics," "fig-leaf poetics" etc. - Jim p.s. - There are all sorts of "parts" available at joke stores, costume shops, sex shoppes to try during your next airport experience if you have the guts (strike that) or balls (strike that) or temerity (word choice suggested by Ari Fleisher). JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > The School of Full-Frontal Embodied Poetics > > EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (June 26) - A scanner the government is testing for > airport screening reveals much more than meets the eye to be comfortable for > most passengers. > > Susan Hallowell, director of the Transportation Security Administration's > security laboratory, sacrificed a large measure of her own modesty Wednesday to > demonstrate the problem. > > She stepped into a metal booth that bounced X-rays off her skin to produce a > black-and-white image that revealed enough to produce a world-class blush. > > Her dark skirt and blazer disappeared on the monitor, where she showed up > naked - except for the gun and bomb she had hidden under her outfit. > > ``It does basically make you look fat and naked, but you see all this > stuff,'' Hallowell said. > > The agency hopes to modify the machines with an electronic fig leaf - > programming that fuzzes out sensitive body parts or distorts the body so it does not > appear so, well, graphic. > > Another option would be to restrict the screener to a booth so no passing > peepers can see the image, said Randal Null, the agency's chief technology > officer. > > Null hopes to conduct pilot programs with the machines at several airports > this year. A test run with volunteers at Orlando International Airport in > Florida met with mixed results, he said. > > Some were uncomfortable with the technology - called ``backscatter'' because > it scatters X-rays - while others proclaimed it ``a whole lot nicer than > having someone pat me down,'' he said. > > David Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center in > Washington, thinks most people will object to the technology. > > ``The public is willing to accept a certain amount of scrutiny at the > airport, but there are clearly limits to the degree of invasion that is acceptable,'' > Sobel said. ``It's hard to understand why something this invasive is > necessary.'' > > Magnetometers now in use at airports cannot detect plastic weapons or > substances used in explosives. > > With backscatter technology, rays deflected off dense materials such as metal > or plastic produce a darker image than those deflected off skin. The > radiation dosage is about the same as sunshine, Hallowell said. > > Backscatter machines have been available for years, priced between $100,000 > and $200,000. They have been used to screen prisoners' families and South > African diamond miners going home for the day. > > Rep. John Mica, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure > subcommittee on aviation, wants to persuade colleagues to focus research on > technology that identifies items on people's bodies. > > ``The chances of someone bringing an explosive on an aircraft by walking > through a metal detector or in hand-carried luggage are very real,'' said Mica, > R-Fla. > > Mica pointed out that Richard Reid, convicted of trying to blow up a > trans-Atlantic jetliner with explosives in his shoes, walked through metal detectors > at Orly Airport in Paris several times before boarding the plane. > > Null said the biggest problem with the backscatter machines may be their > size. One version, the BodySearch system made by Billerica, Mass.-based American > Science & Engineering, is about 4-feet by 7-feet by 10-feet - awfully big for > an airport lobby, Null said. > > Another system made by Hawthorne, Calif.-based OSI Systems is more compact. > > 06/26/03 10:47 EDT > > > Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news > report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed > without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active > hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Thu Jun 26 21:41:19 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 21:41:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <1e1.c17ccc9.2c2cfabf@aol.com> In a message dated 6/26/03 9:27:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Q: > Did I miss a post to this thread? What does what Ludwig said have to do > with whether or not poets have bodies? A: Stark welcomes unsolicited submissions of poetry. Please note that Stark is a new poetry and photography journal. This submission call is for poetry submissions for the premiere issue. What makes Stark unusual in a world of hundreds of print and electronic literary magazines? Stark will be an art quality production with black and white photos of the poets. Each poet that submits to Stark does so with the understanding that, if selected, the poet will be asked to sit for a nude photography session with a professional photographer. One or two photos will be chosen by a committee of the editors, production manager, photographer, and the poet. The poet must write about the experience, and this poem may or may not be included in the collection. Two poems must be selected by the editors from a poet's submission for a poet to be considered for inclusion in Stark. Photographs will range from obscure, body parts, face only, back only, to full pose, and must be agreed upon be all members of the photography selection committee for each poet. You may preview the photographers craft at www.randylagana.net. We consider manuscripts from July 1 to October 31 (postmark dates). All submissions sent from November through June will be returned unread. We adhere strictly to our postmark restrictions. Since we operate on a first-received, first-read basis, we cannot make exceptions or hold work. Sorry, but we do not take e-mail or computer-file submissions. Mail submissions to: Stark, Hanover Press, P. O. Box 596, Newtown, CT 06470-0596. Stark is published once a year. The editors seek a full representation of the range and diversity of contemporary poetry. At the same time, we expect every issue to reflect our overall standards of literary excellence. Mail three to four poems at a time. A cover letter citing publications and awards, if any, is helpful. Poems should be individually typed either single- or double-spaced on one side of the page. There are no preferences in regards to names in headers or footers, or to staples or paper clips. Please do not send multiple submissions and do not send another manuscript until you hear about the first. All manuscripts and correspondence regarding submissions should be accompanied by a self-addressed, stamped envelope (S.A.S.E.) for a response; no replies will be given by e-mail or postcard. Expect three to five months for a decision. Do not query us until five months have passed, and if you do, please write to us, including an S.A.S.E. and indicating the postmark date of submission, instead of calling or e-mailing. Simultaneous submissions are amenable as long as they are indicated as such and we are notified immediately upon acceptance elsewhere. We do not reprint previously published work. We cannot be responsible for delay, loss, or damage. Payment is upon publication: one copy of the issue. Discounts for additional copies available to poets published in that issue. For more information about literary magazines, consult directories such as The Writer's Market and The International Directory of Literary Magazines and Small Presses where you will find The Underwood Review - a literary and arts journal by Hanover Press. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Thu Jun 26 22:55:35 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <20030627025535.5218148D8@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Thu Jun 26 23:04:36 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:04:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <1e1.c17ccc9.2c2cfabf@aol.com> Message-ID: <00ec01c33c58$d869b220$1027fea9@j1c1k6> > bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > Q: > > Did I miss a post to this thread? What does what Ludwig said have to do > > with whether or not poets have bodies? > A: > Stark welcomes unsolicited submissions of poetry. ETC. Okay. But Wendy seemed to be responding only to the Wittgenstein quotation, so I thought it was a new thread. --Bob G. From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Thu Jun 26 23:08:00 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:08:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <20030627025535.5218148D8@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: <3EFBB510.D761050B@earthlink.net> CobbCoStudioArts wrote: > > James, > > Are these images recorded for evidentiary procedures? Your cellulite is your cellulite and no one else's. This can be substantiated with dna samplings. > Could they be used for illicit purposes? Anything can be used for illicit purposes. > What safe-guards are in place to prevent abuses of civil rights? None. Haven't you kept up with the news? - the other James From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Thu Jun 26 23:33:32 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <20030627033332.8E719ABD6@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From wjbat at conncoll.edu Fri Jun 27 00:04:54 2003 From: wjbat at conncoll.edu (Wendy Battin) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 00:04:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. In-Reply-To: <00ec01c33c58$d869b220$1027fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <20030627000454.031873@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Bob Grumman wrote: >Okay. But Wendy seemed to be responding only to the Wittgenstein quotation, >so I thought it was a new thread. Ah, so I'm sorry after all. Bob, I was responding partly to Finnegan's subject line ("Sorry, poets,") partly to the Wittgenstein, which I love, and partly to the Stark thread. The Wittgenstein isn't a pretty truth, but it's as lean and beautiful as an x-ray, and not (back)scattered. Wendy ------------------------ Wendy Battin wjbat at conncoll.edu The human body is the best picture of the soul. --Wittgenstein From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 27 06:24:51 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:24:51 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <20030627000454.031873@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Message-ID: <003901c33c96$58ce9380$3c2afea9@j1c1k6> The human body is the best picture of the soul. --Wittgenstein snip to: > The Wittgenstein isn't a pretty truth, but it's as lean and beautiful as > an x-ray, and not (back)scattered. > > Wendy My only problem with the Wittgenstein is the word, "best." Was Beethoven's body really a better picture of his soul than,say, his seventh symphony? --Bob G. From elemenope at icubed.com Thu Jun 26 19:22:22 2003 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:22:22 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Professor Gudding's Kwixotical Kwest In-Reply-To: <200306270026.h5R0Q7ST016026@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200306270026.h5R0Q7ST016026@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: At 06:27 AM +0800 6/27/03, ELEMENOPE Productions wrote: >but as Republicans aren't too good at reading I challenge Professor Gudding to a public reading any time. We will read patriotic poetry. Answer now. Since Professor Gudding's publisher is in Pittsburgh, let it be here on neutral ground. As to another meaning to the word, "Reading," apparently Professor Gudding hasn't been reading the limited coverage his liberal news media has admitted in the day before yesterday's discovery in Iraq of the components of a nuke WMD and a horde of ricin plus thousands of pages of detailed bureaucratic instructions on how to hide WMDs! I waited two cycles before depositing the following report on this list because I wanted to see if Professor Gudding would refute the NBC disclosure. At this point, all the RadLibs have regarding their mishmashed interpretation of what comprises a WMD is a semantical, technical, tiny, boring, silly, nitpicking, lisping disputation. Nothing of use in dealing with the harsh realities of the dangers besetting America from those whose viewpoints they so weirdly mirror. (Prescient of me to anticipate that Professor Gudding would turn out to be a co-traveller with the Communist Pro-Che Reagan-Hating Bush/Blair-Hating anti-Christian anti-Israel Pro-Mao Pro-Gulag John Pilger.) >Wednesday, 6/27/03 > > >Ladies and Gentlemen: > >Again, Reality moves against Professor Gudding: > >>>http://www.msnbc.com/news/931304.asp?0cm=c10 > > >As I predicted in my last post: watch Professor Gudding lose. >Unless we who oppose his fifth column call attention to the >unmitigated differences between actuality and his vision of how >things should be, the public will not learn the facts because he and >his allies will not acknowledge how their continual accusations are >contradicted by breaking events and the total historical record, in >this case, Saddam's WMD weapon projects: > > > >U.S. investigators had found two shipping containers filled with >millions of much more recent documents relating to chemical and >biological weapons. > One of the documents, from 2001, was titled "Document burial >and U.N. activities in Iraq," the sources said. It gave detailed >instructions on how to hide materials and deceive U.N. weapons >inspectors, the sources said. > Other documents related to the concealment of VX nerve gas, >the sources said. > The sources said U.S. troops also discovered about 300 sacks >of castor beans, which are used to make the deadly biological agent >ricin, hidden in a warehouse in the town of al-Aziziyah, 50 miles >southeast of Baghdad, the capital. The castor beans were >inaccurately labeled as fertilizer. > U.S. search teams have also been led to a site near >Nasiriyah, a key Euphrates River crossing 200 miles south of >Baghdad, where Iraqi informants said Scud missiles were buried. > > > >One of the self assumed privileges of the RadLib anti-United States >operative is never having to say she was wrong. Like other famous >anti-American RadLib guerrilla actors, the "Intellectual Terrorist" >(John Pilger, Anne Waldman, Alger Hiss, Walter Pincus, Martha Berke, >Sidney Blumenthal, Professor Gudding) merely moves behind a nearby >rock (Once you "make it" and are identified as member of the >crusade, there is always a job in academe or journalism or Hollywood >or the Clinton's private investigative team.) and keeps firing on >the "Republicans" in the name of "human progress." What are called >"facts" may intrude to block the RadLib dissident in her propaganda >activities, but facts never intrude on her Utopian Dream of the >Socialist International. > > >>Richard Dillon > > > >>Paladin of the RadLib Stables >ELEMENOPE Productions > > >http://tinyurl.com/fdsz > >John Pilger -- first published June 22 in New Statesman. > >And a poem for those (literate) members of the GOP party here (Gas & Oil >Party): [but as Republicans aren't too good at reading, let me point out a >few lines for you, this is the Fox News Version of Rupert B's poem, so you >should like it]: " And heard our word, 'Who is so safe as we?' " That's >the only line YALL need to know. Rest of the poem's written by a Ba'athist >Communiss Vietcong Taliban Saddam Loyaliss > >Rupert Brooke (1887-1915) >1914 II. Safety >Dear! of all happy in the hour, most blest > He who has found our hid security, >Assured in the dark tides of the world that rest, > And heard our word, 'Who is so safe as we?' >We have found safety with all things undying, > The winds, and morning, tears of men and mirth, >The deep night, and birds singing, and clouds flying, > And sleep, and freedom, and the autumnal earth. > >We have built a house that is not for Time's throwing. > We have gained a peace unshaken by pain for ever. >War knows no power. Safe shall be my going, > Secretly armed against all death's endeavour; >Safe though all safety's lost; safe where men fall; >And if these poor limbs die, safest of all. > > >_____________________________________________________ > > "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things > they misname empire; and where they make > a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus > > >Gabriel Gudding >Assistant Professor of English >Illinois State University >Normal, IL 61790 >office 309.438.5284 >gmguddi at ilstu.edu > >http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html >http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ >--=====================_14517244==.ALT >Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" > > >eudora="autourl">http://tinyurl.com/fdsz

>John Pilger -- first published June 22 in New Statesman.

>And a poem for those (literate) members of the GOP party here (Gas & >Oil Party): [but as Republicans aren't too good at reading, let me point >out a few lines for you, this is the Fox News Version of Rupert B's poem, >so you should like it]: " And heard our word, 'Who is so safe as >we?' "  That's the only line YALL need to know. Rest of the >poem's written by a Ba'athist Communiss Vietcong Taliban Saddam >Loyaliss

>Rupert Brooke (1887-1915)
>1914 II. Safety
>Dear! of all happy in the hour, most blest
> He who has found our hid security,
>Assured in the dark tides of the world that rest,
> And heard our word, 'Who is so safe as we?'
>We have found safety with all things undying,
> The winds, and morning, tears of men and mirth,
>The deep night, and birds singing, and clouds flying,
> And sleep, and freedom, and the autumnal earth.

>We have built a house that is not for Time's throwing.
> We have gained a peace unshaken by pain for ever.
>War knows no power. Safe shall be my going,
> Secretly armed against all death's endeavour;
>Safe though all safety's lost; safe where men fall;
>And if these poor limbs die, safest of all.

>

>_____________________________________________________

>                "To >plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things
>                they >misname empire; and where they make
>                a >wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus

>
>Gabriel Gudding
>Assistant Professor of English
>Illinois State University
>Normal, IL  61790
>office 309.438.5284
>gmguddi at ilstu.edu

>eudora="autourl">http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html
>eudora="autourl">http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ > >--=====================_14517244==.ALT-- > > > >--__--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >End o -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat at conncoll.edu Fri Jun 27 08:10:02 2003 From: wjbat at conncoll.edu (Wendy Battin) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:10:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. In-Reply-To: <003901c33c96$58ce9380$3c2afea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <20030627081002.021261@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Bob Grumman wrote: >My only problem with the Wittgenstein is the word, "best." Was Beethoven's >body really a better picture of his soul than,say, his seventh symphony? Not the most enduring, certainly. But while it endured, the most accurate. Wendy ------------------------ Wendy Battin wjbat at conncoll.edu The human body is the best picture of the soul. -- Wittgenstein From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Jun 27 08:48:21 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:48:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <20030627081002.021261@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Message-ID: <008d01c33caa$64c5d720$3c2afea9@j1c1k6> > Bob Grumman wrote: > >My only problem with the Wittgenstein is the word, "best." Was Beethoven's > >body really a better picture of his soul than,say, his seventh symphony? > > Not the most enduring, certainly. But while it endured, the most accurate. > > Wendy Maybe. I'm not sure just how Beethoven's body would reveal the depths of soul his symphonies do. His noble brow? Or maybe the later Ludwig meant by "body" even a person's brain-cells, in which case he's merely saying a person'[s soul best reveals a person'[s soul. Of course, as I figured we would, we're down to definition of terms. Most accurate isn't best, for me. --Bob G. From FanwoodJEL at aol.com Fri Jun 27 09:07:46 2003 From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:07:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: I've completed my research. Countless hours, looking into sacred texts, looking into the collected images of Eugene Atget, looking into Chapman's Homer, looking into (and, of course, through) the looking glass. I'm glad I spent the time, and, it turns out, the conclusion is ineluctable. Wittgenstein was wrong. Or he was, that bad boy, kidding! What a joker! Beethoven, on the other hand, was not. Joking, I mean. Jeffrey Levine p.s. spellcheck wants to change Eugene Atget to Eugene Catgut. Should we let it? In a message dated 6/27/2003 8:47:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > >Bob Grumman wrote: > >>My only problem with the Wittgenstein is the word, "best." Was > Beethoven's > >>body really a better picture of his soul than,say, his seventh symphony? > > > >Not the most enduring, certainly. But while it endured, the most > accurate. > > > >Wendy > > Maybe. I'm not sure just how Beethoven's body would reveal the depths of > soul his symphonies do. His noble brow? Or maybe the later Ludwig meant by > "body" even a person's brain-cells, in which case he's merely saying a > person'[s soul best reveals a person'[s soul. Of course, as I figured we > would, we're down to definition of terms. Most accurate isn't best, for > me. > > --Bob G. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Fri Jun 27 09:13:59 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 06:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <20030627131359.B2F1E3F9F@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From hruggier at localnet.com Fri Jun 27 12:54:45 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:54:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <1e1.c17cc8b.2c2cf274@aol.com> <3EFB9DCA.674C7A4B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3EFC76D5.DEEDE002@localnet.com> wait a minute. wouldn't a fig leaf be censorship? James Cervantes wrote: > Well, as the guinea pig said, ``It does basically make you look fat and > naked, but you see all this stuff.'' So, maybe we need all sorts of > poetics in this new light (attn: Grumman), such as "full-bodied poetics" > (attn: expansionists), "skin and bone poetics" (nah, Bly's done that), > "prosthetics poetics," "fig-leaf poetics" etc. > > - Jim > > p.s. - There are all sorts of "parts" available at joke stores, costume > shops, sex shoppes to try during your next airport experience if you > have the guts (strike that) or balls (strike that) or temerity (word > choice suggested by Ari Fleisher). > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > The School of Full-Frontal Embodied Poetics > > > > EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (June 26) - A scanner the government is testing for > > airport screening reveals much more than meets the eye to be comfortable for > > most passengers. > > > > Susan Hallowell, director of the Transportation Security Administration's > > security laboratory, sacrificed a large measure of her own modesty Wednesday to > > demonstrate the problem. > > > > She stepped into a metal booth that bounced X-rays off her skin to produce a > > black-and-white image that revealed enough to produce a world-class blush. > > > > Her dark skirt and blazer disappeared on the monitor, where she showed up > > naked - except for the gun and bomb she had hidden under her outfit. > > > > ``It does basically make you look fat and naked, but you see all this > > stuff,'' Hallowell said. > > > > The agency hopes to modify the machines with an electronic fig leaf - > > programming that fuzzes out sensitive body parts or distorts the body so it does not > > appear so, well, graphic. > > > > Another option would be to restrict the screener to a booth so no passing > > peepers can see the image, said Randal Null, the agency's chief technology > > officer. > > > > Null hopes to conduct pilot programs with the machines at several airports > > this year. A test run with volunteers at Orlando International Airport in > > Florida met with mixed results, he said. > > > > Some were uncomfortable with the technology - called ``backscatter'' because > > it scatters X-rays - while others proclaimed it ``a whole lot nicer than > > having someone pat me down,'' he said. > > > > David Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center in > > Washington, thinks most people will object to the technology. > > > > ``The public is willing to accept a certain amount of scrutiny at the > > airport, but there are clearly limits to the degree of invasion that is acceptable,'' > > Sobel said. ``It's hard to understand why something this invasive is > > necessary.'' > > > > Magnetometers now in use at airports cannot detect plastic weapons or > > substances used in explosives. > > > > With backscatter technology, rays deflected off dense materials such as metal > > or plastic produce a darker image than those deflected off skin. The > > radiation dosage is about the same as sunshine, Hallowell said. > > > > Backscatter machines have been available for years, priced between $100,000 > > and $200,000. They have been used to screen prisoners' families and South > > African diamond miners going home for the day. > > > > Rep. John Mica, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure > > subcommittee on aviation, wants to persuade colleagues to focus research on > > technology that identifies items on people's bodies. > > > > ``The chances of someone bringing an explosive on an aircraft by walking > > through a metal detector or in hand-carried luggage are very real,'' said Mica, > > R-Fla. > > > > Mica pointed out that Richard Reid, convicted of trying to blow up a > > trans-Atlantic jetliner with explosives in his shoes, walked through metal detectors > > at Orly Airport in Paris several times before boarding the plane. > > > > Null said the biggest problem with the backscatter machines may be their > > size. One version, the BodySearch system made by Billerica, Mass.-based American > > Science & Engineering, is about 4-feet by 7-feet by 10-feet - awfully big for > > an airport lobby, Null said. > > > > Another system made by Hawthorne, Calif.-based OSI Systems is more compact. > > > > 06/26/03 10:47 EDT > > > > > > Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news > > report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed > > without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active > > hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 27 13:41:02 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:41:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <1e1.c17cc8b.2c2cf274@aol.com> <3EFB9DCA.674C7A4B@earthlink.net> <3EFC76D5.DEEDE002@localnet.com> Message-ID: <3EFC81AE.79C22494@earthlink.net> Not to mention that fig leaves are very scratchy. - Jim Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > wait a minute. wouldn't a fig leaf be censorship? > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > Well, as the guinea pig said, ``It does basically make you look fat and > > naked, but you see all this stuff.'' So, maybe we need all sorts of > > poetics in this new light (attn: Grumman), such as "full-bodied poetics" > > (attn: expansionists), "skin and bone poetics" (nah, Bly's done that), > > "prosthetics poetics," "fig-leaf poetics" etc. > > > > - Jim > > > > p.s. - There are all sorts of "parts" available at joke stores, costume > > shops, sex shoppes to try during your next airport experience if you > > have the guts (strike that) or balls (strike that) or temerity (word > > choice suggested by Ari Fleisher). > > > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > The School of Full-Frontal Embodied Poetics > > > > > > EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (June 26) - A scanner the government is testing for > > > airport screening reveals much more than meets the eye to be comfortable for > > > most passengers. > > > > > > Susan Hallowell, director of the Transportation Security Administration's > > > security laboratory, sacrificed a large measure of her own modesty Wednesday to > > > demonstrate the problem. > > > > > > She stepped into a metal booth that bounced X-rays off her skin to produce a > > > black-and-white image that revealed enough to produce a world-class blush. > > > > > > Her dark skirt and blazer disappeared on the monitor, where she showed up > > > naked - except for the gun and bomb she had hidden under her outfit. > > > > > > ``It does basically make you look fat and naked, but you see all this > > > stuff,'' Hallowell said. > > > > > > The agency hopes to modify the machines with an electronic fig leaf - > > > programming that fuzzes out sensitive body parts or distorts the body so it does not > > > appear so, well, graphic. > > > > > > Another option would be to restrict the screener to a booth so no passing > > > peepers can see the image, said Randal Null, the agency's chief technology > > > officer. > > > > > > Null hopes to conduct pilot programs with the machines at several airports > > > this year. A test run with volunteers at Orlando International Airport in > > > Florida met with mixed results, he said. > > > > > > Some were uncomfortable with the technology - called ``backscatter'' because > > > it scatters X-rays - while others proclaimed it ``a whole lot nicer than > > > having someone pat me down,'' he said. > > > > > > David Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center in > > > Washington, thinks most people will object to the technology. > > > > > > ``The public is willing to accept a certain amount of scrutiny at the > > > airport, but there are clearly limits to the degree of invasion that is acceptable,'' > > > Sobel said. ``It's hard to understand why something this invasive is > > > necessary.'' > > > > > > Magnetometers now in use at airports cannot detect plastic weapons or > > > substances used in explosives. > > > > > > With backscatter technology, rays deflected off dense materials such as metal > > > or plastic produce a darker image than those deflected off skin. The > > > radiation dosage is about the same as sunshine, Hallowell said. > > > > > > Backscatter machines have been available for years, priced between $100,000 > > > and $200,000. They have been used to screen prisoners' families and South > > > African diamond miners going home for the day. > > > > > > Rep. John Mica, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure > > > subcommittee on aviation, wants to persuade colleagues to focus research on > > > technology that identifies items on people's bodies. > > > > > > ``The chances of someone bringing an explosive on an aircraft by walking > > > through a metal detector or in hand-carried luggage are very real,'' said Mica, > > > R-Fla. > > > > > > Mica pointed out that Richard Reid, convicted of trying to blow up a > > > trans-Atlantic jetliner with explosives in his shoes, walked through metal detectors > > > at Orly Airport in Paris several times before boarding the plane. > > > > > > Null said the biggest problem with the backscatter machines may be their > > > size. One version, the BodySearch system made by Billerica, Mass.-based American > > > Science & Engineering, is about 4-feet by 7-feet by 10-feet - awfully big for > > > an airport lobby, Null said. > > > > > > Another system made by Hawthorne, Calif.-based OSI Systems is more compact. > > > > > > 06/26/03 10:47 EDT > > > > > > > > > Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news > > > report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed > > > without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active > > > hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu Fri Jun 27 13:55:54 2003 From: mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu (mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:55:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "My Angie Dickinson" at 80 In-Reply-To: <3EFC81AE.79C22494@earthlink.net> References: <1e1.c17cc8b.2c2cf274@aol.com> <3EFB9DCA.674C7A4B@earthlink.net> <3EFC76D5.DEEDE002@localnet.com> <3EFC81AE.79C22494@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1056736554.3efc852a83729@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Hi all, My ongoing serial project "My Angie Dickinson" now includes 80 poems; plus there are some new complimentary photos: http://myangiedickinson.blogspot.com Enjoy, -m. From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Jun 27 14:51:42 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 14:51:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <1e1.c17cc8b.2c2cf274@aol.com> <3EFB9DCA.674C7A4B@earthlink.net> <3EFC76D5.DEEDE002@localnet.com> <3EFC81AE.79C22494@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003401c33cdd$26624800$6701a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Better than poison ivy.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. > Not to mention that fig leaves are very scratchy. > > - Jim > > Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > > > wait a minute. wouldn't a fig leaf be censorship? > > > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > > > Well, as the guinea pig said, ``It does basically make you look fat and > > > naked, but you see all this stuff.'' So, maybe we need all sorts of > > > poetics in this new light (attn: Grumman), such as "full-bodied poetics" > > > (attn: expansionists), "skin and bone poetics" (nah, Bly's done that), > > > "prosthetics poetics," "fig-leaf poetics" etc. > > > > > > - Jim > > > > > > p.s. - There are all sorts of "parts" available at joke stores, costume > > > shops, sex shoppes to try during your next airport experience if you > > > have the guts (strike that) or balls (strike that) or temerity (word > > > choice suggested by Ari Fleisher). > > > > > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > The School of Full-Frontal Embodied Poetics > > > > > > > > EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (June 26) - A scanner the government is testing for > > > > airport screening reveals much more than meets the eye to be comfortable for > > > > most passengers. > > > > > > > > Susan Hallowell, director of the Transportation Security Administration's > > > > security laboratory, sacrificed a large measure of her own modesty Wednesday to > > > > demonstrate the problem. > > > > > > > > She stepped into a metal booth that bounced X-rays off her skin to produce a > > > > black-and-white image that revealed enough to produce a world-class blush. > > > > > > > > Her dark skirt and blazer disappeared on the monitor, where she showed up > > > > naked - except for the gun and bomb she had hidden under her outfit. > > > > > > > > ``It does basically make you look fat and naked, but you see all this > > > > stuff,'' Hallowell said. > > > > > > > > The agency hopes to modify the machines with an electronic fig leaf - > > > > programming that fuzzes out sensitive body parts or distorts the body so it does not > > > > appear so, well, graphic. > > > > > > > > Another option would be to restrict the screener to a booth so no passing > > > > peepers can see the image, said Randal Null, the agency's chief technology > > > > officer. > > > > > > > > Null hopes to conduct pilot programs with the machines at several airports > > > > this year. A test run with volunteers at Orlando International Airport in > > > > Florida met with mixed results, he said. > > > > > > > > Some were uncomfortable with the technology - called ``backscatter'' because > > > > it scatters X-rays - while others proclaimed it ``a whole lot nicer than > > > > having someone pat me down,'' he said. > > > > > > > > David Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center in > > > > Washington, thinks most people will object to the technology. > > > > > > > > ``The public is willing to accept a certain amount of scrutiny at the > > > > airport, but there are clearly limits to the degree of invasion that is acceptable,'' > > > > Sobel said. ``It's hard to understand why something this invasive is > > > > necessary.'' > > > > > > > > Magnetometers now in use at airports cannot detect plastic weapons or > > > > substances used in explosives. > > > > > > > > With backscatter technology, rays deflected off dense materials such as metal > > > > or plastic produce a darker image than those deflected off skin. The > > > > radiation dosage is about the same as sunshine, Hallowell said. > > > > > > > > Backscatter machines have been available for years, priced between $100,000 > > > > and $200,000. They have been used to screen prisoners' families and South > > > > African diamond miners going home for the day. > > > > > > > > Rep. John Mica, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure > > > > subcommittee on aviation, wants to persuade colleagues to focus research on > > > > technology that identifies items on people's bodies. > > > > > > > > ``The chances of someone bringing an explosive on an aircraft by walking > > > > through a metal detector or in hand-carried luggage are very real,'' said Mica, > > > > R-Fla. > > > > > > > > Mica pointed out that Richard Reid, convicted of trying to blow up a > > > > trans-Atlantic jetliner with explosives in his shoes, walked through metal detectors > > > > at Orly Airport in Paris several times before boarding the plane. > > > > > > > > Null said the biggest problem with the backscatter machines may be their > > > > size. One version, the BodySearch system made by Billerica, Mass.-based American > > > > Science & Engineering, is about 4-feet by 7-feet by 10-feet - awfully big for > > > > an airport lobby, Null said. > > > > > > > > Another system made by Hawthorne, Calif.-based OSI Systems is more compact. > > > > > > > > 06/26/03 10:47 EDT > > > > > > > > > > > > Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news > > > > report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed > > > > without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active > > > > hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Fri Jun 27 19:05:06 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:05:06 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. Message-ID: <185.1d35a98c.2c2e27a2@aol.com> In a message dated 6/27/03 12:06:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wjbat at conncoll.edu writes: > > Ah, so I'm sorry after all. Bob, I was responding partly to Finnegan's > subject line ("Sorry, poets,") partly to the Wittgenstein, which I love, > and partly to the Stark thread. Yes, I posted Witt's wit as relateed to the Stark announcement. From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 27 21:41:00 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 18:41:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Arizona Epiphany" Message-ID: <3EFCF22C.2DCC44AA@earthlink.net> Arizona Epiphany There are so many small rarified moments like the other twilight on a patio with misters tempering insane heat. In their cool fog we simultaneously spotted this couple and simultaneously said "No." This meant that they were not meant for each other but that we were. Deja vu did not even enter our minds - not in respect to others, but to ourselves. Nonetheless, congratulations resulted in warm looks, another drink. If only the world operated this way, there would be peace. But this morning's temperature has a head start on yesterday's and the mockingbird is once again in love with its song. - Jim ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ James Cervantes: http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org RelativeLinks: http://www.poetserv.com/relativelinks/home.html From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Fri Jun 27 22:42:00 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:42:00 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] you bring out the boring white poet in me In-Reply-To: <3EF7922B.1912DBCD@earthlink.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030623151523.01ba1d68@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030627213833.011dbcb0@mail.ilstu.edu> At 04:50 PM 6/23/2003 -0700, James Cervantes wrote: >But, seriously, Gabe, you have the wherewithall to write a pointed open >letter to the Texas honcho vis a vis your most burning issue. Do it. I >think it's time to shift gears and assault the status quo with voices >from the "literary class" (see Newt). Jim, I'm all tapped out. That guy, Bush, from Texas isn't the problem. It's not an individual guy, this guy or that guy, from Texas. The problem is the state of Texas itself. The problem is in fact the whole state of Texas. The entire state is a punk, a fool. It had a kid back in the day, kid called Mississippi. Texas and Mississippi -- two sides of the same bad coin. Would love to write a letter to Texas. Maybe I'll do that. -gabe From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Jun 27 22:59:49 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:59:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] you bring out the boring white poet in me References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030623151523.01ba1d68@mail.ilstu.edu> <5.1.1.6.0.20030627213833.011dbcb0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <3EFD04A5.AF623D45@earthlink.net> Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > At 04:50 PM 6/23/2003 -0700, James Cervantes wrote: > >But, seriously, Gabe, you have the wherewithall to write a pointed open > >letter to the Texas honcho vis a vis your most burning issue. Do it. I > >think it's time to shift gears and assault the status quo with voices > >from the "literary class" (see Newt). > > Jim, I'm all tapped out. That guy, Bush, from Texas isn't the problem. It's > not an individual guy, this guy or that guy, from Texas. The problem is the > state of Texas itself. The problem is in fact the whole state of Texas. The > entire state is a punk, a fool. It had a kid back in the day, kid called > Mississippi. Texas and Mississippi -- two sides of the same bad coin. Would > love to write a letter to Texas. Maybe I'll do that. Gotcha. Problem is New Texas stretches from L.A. to Bangor. You'll be interested in the following, which I sent around early this morning. Grass roots is a pain and a bother and involves getting away from the tv or the computer, but this time it's got to be done. Write that letter to Texas. Have to join the Dixie Chicks here and say I'm ashamed of being from Texas. But, yep, that's where I'm from. But am not. - Jim > That's me, down there in the 2.01% undecided. The MoveOn primary was > kind of a good idea but there's some fantasy involved when they say "The > MoveOn primary has allowed hundreds of thousands of ordinary voters to > speak at a time when usually only pundits, pollsters, and wealthy donors > have influence." People involved with MoveOn, and who grant a > legitimate reality to a virtual primary are not, I think, "ordinary > voters." The "ordinary voters" do not spend their internet time reading > AlterNet (which I do), do not sign internet petitions, or do any > significant research on issues in any other alternative and/or foreign > news sources. We 300,000 members need to be out on the street handing > out copies of key stories from the alternative sources (copied at our > expense) and open letters to the president. I'm going to start doing > exactly that, drawing on the countless stories I've saved, and I'll do > it where zoned out, middle America hangs out (malls, Walmarts, video > stores etc.). Of course much will be thrown away, and I'll no doubt be > asked to leave, but one has to start somewhere. > > - Jim > "Wes Boyd, MoveOn PAC" wrote: > > Dear MoveOn member, > > The votes are counted, the exit polls are complete, and the results > from the MoveOn primary are in. Over 300,000 MoveOn members have cast > votes -- a turnout bigger than the election turnout in many states -- > and news outlets from CBS to Reuters have covered the story as it > unfolded this week. > > The MoveOn primary has allowed hundreds of thousands of ordinary > voters to speak at a time when usually only pundits, pollsters, and > wealthy donors have influence. Now it's time to put our money where > our mouth is. The end of this month -- June 30th -- marks a key > deadline for candidate fundraising: candidates will truly sink or swim > based on whether they show that they can raise money. > > Since no candidate received more than 50% of the vote, we're > encouraging everyone to support the candidate they voted for. A list > of the official candidates and their fundraising webpages is below. > > So how did the candidates do? The statistics below are only a part of > the picture: perhaps the most significant fact is that virtually all > of the candidates would have the enthusiastic support of a majority of > MoveOn members. Taking back the primary process for ordinary people is > an important goal, but the vote made clear that we're ready to defeat > Bush no matter who the Democratic nominee is. > > As a result of the primary, well over 100,000 people have joined a > presidential campaign or contributed to one. We're already building a > movement to defeat Bush in 2004. > > Here are the vote totals: > BRAUN 7021 2.21% > DEAN 139360 43.87% > EDWARDS 10146 3.19% > GRAHAM 7113 2.24% > KERRY 49973 15.73% > KUCINICH 76000 23.93% > GEPHARDT 7755 2.44% > LIEBERMAN 6095 1.92% > SHARPTON 1677 0.53% > OTHER 6121 1.93% > UNDECIDED 6378 2.01% > 317647 100.00% > > The complete results, along with some analysis, are available on our > website at: > http://moveon.org/pac/primary/report.html > * > snip From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Fri Jun 27 23:49:38 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:49:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] you bring out the boring white poet in me In-Reply-To: <3EFD04A5.AF623D45@earthlink.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030623151523.01ba1d68@mail.ilstu.edu> <5.1.1.6.0.20030627213833.011dbcb0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030627224030.011d8a20@mail.ilstu.edu> At 07:59 PM 6/27/2003 -0700, James Cervantes wrote: >Grass roots is a pain and a bother and involves getting away from the tv >or the computer, but this time it's got to be done. Good idea, Jim. Strange to say, but I've already collected a bunch of quotes from those revolutionary white men who founded this nation and then some from other eras, from Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Th Paine, Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, others, about civil liberties, dissent, the avoidance of warfare, separation of church and state, of business and govt, and the sanctity of self governance -- all things abrogated by that incredible ignoramus fascist G W Bush and his dangerous henchmen -- which sheaf of quotes I'm going to be handing out, in pamphlet form, on and around the 4th, as well as taping on walls etc here and there. Your example has only prodded me to furiouser action. thx. g From Henry_Gould at brown.edu Sat Jun 28 00:10:42 2003 From: Henry_Gould at brown.edu (Henry_Gould at brown.edu) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 0:10:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] texas Message-ID: <200306280410.h5S4AgS14655@perseus.services.brown.edu> People from Minnesota are always putting down Texas, this goes back to Humphrey & Johnson if not before. If you look at a map of Texas ecosystems you will notice that it really is a complete quadripartite world unto itself, divided into a sort of quadrilateral, containing deserts, swamps, forests, mountains, plains, rivers, you name it. Texas also has tremendously great oysters, in Galveston. & cheap rents (Galveston only). My daughter (from RI) claims that her stepmother was "born on a horse in Texas", but this is not true. Her step-GRANDmother was born on a horse, in Fort Worth. Her Stepgrandmother was the granddaughter of one of the very few survivors of the Galveston Flood, the little-known but WORST natural disaster in US history. He was lucky, clinging fortitudinously with his little sister to a stray plank. happened around the time of Bloomsday, 1910 or so. I'm also from Minnesota. There is more to Texas that febrile poets in their off-season will admit. Go west of Houston. Visit the "painted churches" section. One of the most beautiful rural areas in the United States. Thanks to Czech farmers, I believe. Nothing is simple, especially not life. There are many enormous bugs in Texas, some of which inhabit motel closets. don't let that stop you. You will also notice signs on museum & library doors : NO HANDGUNS ALLOWED. There are many enormous handguns in Texas, some of which inhabit motel closets. Mark Rothko. In the forlornnest most Gawd-forsaken stretches of Texas highway, you will usually & often come upon a very detailed & well-written historical plaque detailing local historical nuggets going back to precolumbian times. You will not find stuff like this in Connecticut, nor in Vermont, even; certainly not in Minnesota (my favorite state). Henry From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Jun 28 00:24:40 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:24:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] texas Message-ID: <104.31a44a0d.2c2e7288@cs.com> Rent "Giant." That's about 1/24 of part of the story. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Jun 28 07:24:01 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 07:24:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Arizona Epiphany" References: <3EFCF22C.2DCC44AA@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <007d01c33d67$c6db6a20$7b1cfea9@j1c1k6> Nice poem but "misters?" Anyone else have trouble with that? It seems a weird joking reference to adult males not--what, some kind of mist-maker? --Bob G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 9:41 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] "Arizona Epiphany" > Arizona Epiphany > > > There are so many > small rarified moments > like the other twilight on a patio with misters > tempering insane heat. > > In their cool fog > we simultaneously spotted this couple > and simultaneously said "No." > > This meant that they > were not meant for each other > but that we were. Deja vu > > did not even enter our minds - not in respect > to others, but to ourselves. > Nonetheless, congratulations resulted > in warm looks, another drink. > > If only the world > operated this way, there would be peace. > But this morning's temperature > has a head start on yesterday's > > and the mockingbird > is once again in love with its song. > > > - Jim > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > James Cervantes: http://www.poetserv.net/jvchome/index.html > Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org > RelativeLinks: http://www.poetserv.com/relativelinks/home.html > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Sat Jun 28 08:44:20 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 05:44:20 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] texas References: <200306280410.h5S4AgS14655@perseus.services.brown.edu> Message-ID: <3EFD8DA3.CC2F1D4F@earthlink.net> Henry, I grew up in Texas. It's not the physical Texas we were knocking. I know all those places you mention. There's also Castroville, about halfway between San Antonio and Del Rio, founded by Frenchmen mid-1800s, and with a New Orleans feel. Galveston is funky. A lot of people don't like it and prefer the more gentrified Corpus Christi/Padre Island bit of coast, but I like it. Don't know if I'd eat the oysters, given the condition of the water. - Jim Henry_Gould at brown.edu wrote: > > People from Minnesota are always putting down Texas, this goes back to Humphrey & Johnson if not before. > > If you look at a map of Texas ecosystems you will notice that it really is a complete quadripartite world unto itself, divided into a sort of quadrilateral, containing deserts, swamps, forests, mountains, plains, rivers, you name it. > > Texas also has tremendously great oysters, in Galveston. > > & cheap rents (Galveston only). > > My daughter (from RI) claims that her stepmother was "born on a horse in Texas", but this is not true. Her step-GRANDmother was born on a horse, in Fort Worth. Her Stepgrandmother was the granddaughter of one of the very few survivors of the Galveston Flood, the little-known but WORST natural disaster in US history. He was lucky, clinging fortitudinously with his little sister to a stray plank. happened around the time of Bloomsday, 1910 or so. > > I'm also from Minnesota. > > There is more to Texas that febrile poets in their off-season will admit. > > Go west of Houston. Visit the "painted churches" section. One of the most beautiful rural areas in the United States. Thanks to Czech farmers, I believe. > > Nothing is simple, especially not life. > > There are many enormous bugs in Texas, some of which inhabit motel closets. don't let that stop you. You will also notice signs on museum & library doors : NO HANDGUNS ALLOWED. There are many enormous handguns in Texas, some of which inhabit motel closets. > > Mark Rothko. > > In the forlornnest most Gawd-forsaken stretches of Texas highway, you will usually & often come upon a very detailed & well-written historical plaque detailing local historical nuggets going back to precolumbian times. You will not find stuff like this in Connecticut, nor in Vermont, even; certainly not in Minnesota (my favorite state). > > Henry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sat Jun 28 10:06:36 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:06:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] for the Liberators Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628085123.011d8de8@mail.ilstu.edu> This for the GOP poets of New-Poetry from Texas and Rhode Island and anywhere else yall come from who *still* insist, following the 19th Century doctrine of Liberal Intervention insisted upon by a senile JS Mill, that US-UK forces have "liberated" the Iraqi people (who clearly don't want to be liberated or bombed into an oil colony masquerading as a democracy) and that -- SOME DAY -- we'll find some weapons of mass destruction to justify a pre-emptive doctrine (rejected by everyone from Augustine, Ambrose, and Aquinas to Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush One, and Clinton) by which the US and UK managed to slaughter ten thousand civilians and poison their nation with DU aerosol. It's a poem first published in McLure's Magazine in 1899. Right up your alley. The White Man's Burden By Rudyard Kipling Take up the White Man's burden-- Send forth the best ye breed-- Go, bind your sons to exile To serve your captives' need; To wait, in heavy harness, On fluttered folk and wild-- Your new-caught sullen peoples, Half devil and half child. Take up the White Man's burden-- In patience to abide, To veil the threat of terror And check the show of pride; By open speech and simple, An hundred times made plain, To seek another's profit And work another's gain. Take up the White Man's burden-- The savage wars of peace-- Fill full the mouth of Famine, And bid the sickness cease; And when your goal is nearest (The end for others sought) Watch sloth and heathen folly Bring all your hope to nought. Take up the White Man's burden-- No iron rule of kings, But toil of serf and sweeper-- The tale of common things. The ports ye shall not enter, The roads ye shall not tread, Go, make them with your living And mark them with your dead. Take up the White Man's burden, And reap his old reward-- The blame of those ye better The hate of those ye guard-- The cry of hosts ye humour (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:-- "Why brought ye us from bondage, Our loved Egyptian night?" Take up the White Man's burden-- Ye dare not stoop to less-- Nor call too loud on Freedom To cloak your weariness. By all ye will or whisper, By all ye leave or do, The silent sullen peoples Shall weigh your God and you. Take up the White Man's burden! Have done with childish days-- The lightly-proffered laurel, The easy ungrudged praise: Comes now, to search your manhood Through all the thankless years, Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom, The judgment of your peers. --- McClure's Magazine 12 (Feb. 1899). From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sat Jun 28 10:17:38 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:17:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] this is democracy? -- & a Fox News Version of Kipling Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628091622.01a5b1f0@mail.ilstu.edu> fr today's Washington Post SAMARRA, Iraq -- U.S. military commanders have ordered a halt to local elections and self-rule in provincial cities and towns across Iraq, choosing instead to install their own handpicked mayors and administrators, many of whom are former Iraqi military leaders. The decision to deny Iraqis a direct role in selecting municipal governments is creating anger and resentment among aspiring leaders and ordinary citizens, who say the U.S.-led occupation forces are not making good on their promise to bring greater freedom and democracy to a country dominated for three decades by Saddam Hussein. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42905-2003Jun27.html ...Take up the White Man's burden, And reap his old reward-- The blame of those ye better The hate of those ye guard-- The cry of hosts ye humour (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:-- "Why brought ye us from bondage, Our loved Egyptian night?"... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Jun 28 13:14:18 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:14:18 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] texas Message-ID: In a message dated 6/28/2003 7:44:56 AM Central Standard Time, jvcervantes at earthlink.net writes: > Galveston is funky. A lot of people don't like it and prefer the more > gentrified Corpus Christi/Padre Island bit of coast, but I like it. > Don't know if I'd eat the oysters, given the condition of the water. > > - Jim We are quite proud of the quality of our Smith Point oysters, and the condition of the water is just fine, thank you. Other than a slight tendency to make one glow in the dark, they are quite good. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FanwoodJEL at aol.com Sat Jun 28 13:25:07 2003 From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:25:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] texas Message-ID: <9d.3b5002f5.2c2f2973@aol.com> In a message dated 6/28/2003 1:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: > We are quite proud of the quality of our Smith Point oysters, and the > condition of the water is just fine, thank you. Other than a slight tendency to > make one glow in the dark, they are quite good. I feel a Rolex Oyster Perpetual Explorer moment coming. JL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Sat Jun 28 13:26:00 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:26:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] texas References: Message-ID: <3EFDCFA7.49724115@earthlink.net> R.S. Gwyn wrote: In a message dated 6/28/2003 7:44:56 AM Central Standard Time, jvcervantes at earthlink.net writes: Galveston is funky. A lot of people don't like it and prefer the more gentrified Corpus Christi/Padre Island bit of coast, but I like it. Don't know if I'd eat the oysters, given the condition of the water. - Jim We are quite proud of the quality of our Smith Point oysters, and the condition of the water is just fine, thank you. Other than a slight tendency to make one glow in the dark, they are quite good. ========== Glow in a dark bathroom. - Jim From hruggier at localnet.com Sat Jun 28 14:51:20 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:51:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sorry, poets. References: <1e1.c17cc8b.2c2cf274@aol.com> <3EFB9DCA.674C7A4B@earthlink.net> <3EFC76D5.DEEDE002@localnet.com> <3EFC81AE.79C22494@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3EFDE3A8.EFC500AB@localnet.com> I did not know that (quoting Johnny Carson) about fig leaves. James Cervantes wrote: > Not to mention that fig leaves are very scratchy. > > - Jim > > Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > > > wait a minute. wouldn't a fig leaf be censorship? > > > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > > > Well, as the guinea pig said, ``It does basically make you look fat and > > > naked, but you see all this stuff.'' So, maybe we need all sorts of > > > poetics in this new light (attn: Grumman), such as "full-bodied poetics" > > > (attn: expansionists), "skin and bone poetics" (nah, Bly's done that), > > > "prosthetics poetics," "fig-leaf poetics" etc. > > > > > > - Jim > > > > > > p.s. - There are all sorts of "parts" available at joke stores, costume > > > shops, sex shoppes to try during your next airport experience if you > > > have the guts (strike that) or balls (strike that) or temerity (word > > > choice suggested by Ari Fleisher). > > > > > > JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > The School of Full-Frontal Embodied Poetics > > > > > > > > EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (June 26) - A scanner the government is testing for > > > > airport screening reveals much more than meets the eye to be comfortable for > > > > most passengers. > > > > > > > > Susan Hallowell, director of the Transportation Security Administration's > > > > security laboratory, sacrificed a large measure of her own modesty Wednesday to > > > > demonstrate the problem. > > > > > > > > She stepped into a metal booth that bounced X-rays off her skin to produce a > > > > black-and-white image that revealed enough to produce a world-class blush. > > > > > > > > Her dark skirt and blazer disappeared on the monitor, where she showed up > > > > naked - except for the gun and bomb she had hidden under her outfit. > > > > > > > > ``It does basically make you look fat and naked, but you see all this > > > > stuff,'' Hallowell said. > > > > > > > > The agency hopes to modify the machines with an electronic fig leaf - > > > > programming that fuzzes out sensitive body parts or distorts the body so it does not > > > > appear so, well, graphic. > > > > > > > > Another option would be to restrict the screener to a booth so no passing > > > > peepers can see the image, said Randal Null, the agency's chief technology > > > > officer. > > > > > > > > Null hopes to conduct pilot programs with the machines at several airports > > > > this year. A test run with volunteers at Orlando International Airport in > > > > Florida met with mixed results, he said. > > > > > > > > Some were uncomfortable with the technology - called ``backscatter'' because > > > > it scatters X-rays - while others proclaimed it ``a whole lot nicer than > > > > having someone pat me down,'' he said. > > > > > > > > David Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center in > > > > Washington, thinks most people will object to the technology. > > > > > > > > ``The public is willing to accept a certain amount of scrutiny at the > > > > airport, but there are clearly limits to the degree of invasion that is acceptable,'' > > > > Sobel said. ``It's hard to understand why something this invasive is > > > > necessary.'' > > > > > > > > Magnetometers now in use at airports cannot detect plastic weapons or > > > > substances used in explosives. > > > > > > > > With backscatter technology, rays deflected off dense materials such as metal > > > > or plastic produce a darker image than those deflected off skin. The > > > > radiation dosage is about the same as sunshine, Hallowell said. > > > > > > > > Backscatter machines have been available for years, priced between $100,000 > > > > and $200,000. They have been used to screen prisoners' families and South > > > > African diamond miners going home for the day. > > > > > > > > Rep. John Mica, chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure > > > > subcommittee on aviation, wants to persuade colleagues to focus research on > > > > technology that identifies items on people's bodies. > > > > > > > > ``The chances of someone bringing an explosive on an aircraft by walking > > > > through a metal detector or in hand-carried luggage are very real,'' said Mica, > > > > R-Fla. > > > > > > > > Mica pointed out that Richard Reid, convicted of trying to blow up a > > > > trans-Atlantic jetliner with explosives in his shoes, walked through metal detectors > > > > at Orly Airport in Paris several times before boarding the plane. > > > > > > > > Null said the biggest problem with the backscatter machines may be their > > > > size. One version, the BodySearch system made by Billerica, Mass.-based American > > > > Science & Engineering, is about 4-feet by 7-feet by 10-feet - awfully big for > > > > an airport lobby, Null said. > > > > > > > > Another system made by Hawthorne, Calif.-based OSI Systems is more compact. > > > > > > > > 06/26/03 10:47 EDT > > > > > > > > > > > > Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news > > > > report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed > > > > without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active > > > > hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From hruggier at localnet.com Sat Jun 28 15:00:53 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:00:53 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] this is democracy? -- & a Fox News Version of Kipling References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628091622.01a5b1f0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <3EFDE5E4.AB247904@localnet.com> Isbn't there a short short story floating around called "Appointment in Samarra" which has spooky overtones in this situation? I'm thinking John O'Hara wrote it but you never know. Helen Gabriel Gudding wrote: > fr today's Washington Post > > SAMARRA, Iraq -- U.S. military commanders have ordered a halt to local > elections and self-rule in provincial cities and towns across Iraq, > choosing instead to install their own handpicked mayors and > administrators, many of whom are former Iraqi military leaders. > > The decision to deny Iraqis a direct role in selecting municipal > governments is creating anger and resentment among aspiring leaders > and ordinary citizens, who say the U.S.-led occupation forces are not > making good on their promise to bring greater freedom and democracy to > a country dominated for three decades by Saddam Hussein. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42905-2003Jun27.html > > ...Take up the White Man's burden, > And reap his old reward-- > The blame of those ye better > The hate of those ye guard-- > The cry of hosts ye humour > (Ah, slowly!) toward the light:-- > "Why brought ye us from bondage, > Our loved Egyptian night?"... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sat Jun 28 22:41:10 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:41:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Bush's Vietnam -- & a Poem Message-ID: <1e5.c3bcb27.2c2fabc6@aol.com> In a message dated 6/26/03 8:33:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gmguddi at ilstu.edu writes: > http://tinyurl.com/fdsz > > John Pilger -- first published June 22 in New Statesman. > > And a poem for those (literate) members of the GOP party here (Gas & Oil > Party): [but as Republicans aren't too good at reading, let me point out a > few lines for you, this is the Fox News Version of Rupert B's poem, so you > should like it]: " And heard our word, 'Who is so safe as we?' " That's > the only line YALL need to know. Rest of the poem's written by a Ba'athist > Communiss Vietcong Taliban Saddam Loyaliss > > Rupert Brooke (1887-1915) > 1914 II. Safety > Dear! of all happy in the hour, most blest > He who has found our hid security, > Assured in the dark tides of the world that rest, > And heard our word, 'Who is so safe as we?' > We have found safety with all things undying, > The winds, and morning, tears of men and mirth, > The deep night, and birds singing, and clouds flying, > And sleep, and freedom, and the autumnal earth. > > We have built a house that is not for Time's throwing. > We have gained a peace unshaken by pain for ever. > War knows no power. Safe shall be my going, > Secretly armed against all death's endeavour; > Safe though all safety's lost; safe where men fall; > And if these poor limbs die, safest of all. > > Gabe, very insightful (inciteful) how you append a poem to your posts to this list. You have proven that you can troll the net for articles that support your point of view, but what have you said of merit (lately or ever) re "NewPoetry." Finnegan From luap at mallasch.com Sat Jun 28 22:45:36 2003 From: luap at mallasch.com (K. Paul Mallasch) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:45:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] the reader of new poetry Message-ID: When I think of new poetry, I think of interaction, of a closer relationship between the poet and the reader, a relationship that was lost over time. What are the list's thoughts on the reader of new poetry? thanks, kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sat Jun 28 22:59:13 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:59:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bush's Vietnam -- & a Poem In-Reply-To: <1e5.c3bcb27.2c2fabc6@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628214908.01aa8b88@mail.ilstu.edu> ><what have you said of merit (lately or ever) re "NewPoetry." >Finnegan >> A toad can die of light! Death is the common right Of toads and men,-- Of earl and midge The privilege. Why swagger then? The gnat's supremacy Is large as thine. From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sat Jun 28 23:25:59 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:25:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Prose Poem by Noam Chomsky Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030628222236.01a6ae98@mail.ilstu.edu> Well, those things are taking place but I don't think they are specifically connected with the Iraq War. The Bush administration, let me repeat it again, they are not conservatives; they are statist reactionaries. The deer tightens at the bear. They want a very powerful state, a huge state in fact, a violent state and one that enforces obedience on the population. There is a kind of quasi-fascist spirit there, in the background, and they have been attempting to undermine civil rights in many ways. The bear loosens at the deer. That's one of their long term objectives, and they have to do it quickly because in the US there is a strong tradition of protection of civil rights. But the kind of surveillance you are talking about of libraries and so on is a step towards it. The dog listens, the deer listens. They have also claimed the right to place a person - even an American citizen - in detention without charge, without access to lawyers and family, and to hold them there indefinitely, and that in fact has been upheld by the Courts, which is pretty shocking. The bear, the dog, the deer -- all listen. But they have a new proposal, sometimes called Patriot II, a 80-page document inside the Justice department. Someone leaked it and it reached the press. There have been some outraged articles by law professors about it. This is only planned so far, but they would like to implement as secretly as they can. These plans would permit the Attorney General to remove citizenship from any individual whom the attorney general believes is acting in a way harmful to the US interests. I mean, this is going beyond anything contemplated in any democratic society. The deer loosens. One law professor at New York University has written that this administration evidently will attempt to take away any civil rights that it can from citizens and I think it?s basically correct. The bear loosens. That fits in with their reactionary statist policies which have a domestic aspect in the economy and social life but also in political life. And the deer rises loudly, its blue horns rippling in fire. From elemenope at icubed.com Sat Jun 28 21:00:03 2003 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:00:03 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem for Jim Finnegan Message-ID: > > >>CHINESE SUMMER >> >>Take between these twigs a grape >>And deliver to open mouth. >> >>While you are at it, >>Float down the lazy river. Richard Dillon ELEMENOPE Productions > >>Surprise me sometime and >>say something interesting about "NewPoetry" or any >>kind of poetry. >>Jim F > > >-- > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Jun 29 09:25:24 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:25:24 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poem for Jim Finnegan References: Message-ID: <001b01c33e41$e61f1960$ea1c2dd5@anny> Poem for Jim FinneganThanks Richard for the idea, your pOm broght me to write the following, best, anny my new-found poetry rest on a comfortable sofa /in the shades /on a sunday afternoon (when your bad neighbors are away for the summer _maybe_ forever) with your favorite book /after having cycled in the noon sun /uphill /till you were forced to cough /to receive enough air to breath /the stunned you were /lost in the present /in your tired body /on earth bringing back concentration /with an iced coffee /and the liquidity and rustling /of full green leaves /tickled by a breeze From: ELEMENOPE Productions CHINESE SUMMER Take between these twigs a grape And deliver to open mouth. While you are at it, Float down the lazy river. Richard Dillon ELEMENOPE Productions Surprise me sometime and say something interesting about "NewPoetry" or any kind of poetry. Jim F -- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anny.ballardini at tin.it Sun Jun 29 09:31:30 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:31:30 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] (Corrected) Poem for Jim Finnegan References: <001b01c33e41$e61f1960$ea1c2dd5@anny> Message-ID: <002701c33e42$c06ae360$ea1c2dd5@anny> Poem for Jim FinneganSame thing, corrections included, Thanks Richard for the idea, your pOm brought me to write the following, best, anny my new-(found)poetry rest on a comfortable sofa /in the shades /on a sunday afternoon (when your bad neighbors are away for the summer _maybe_ forever) with your favorite book /after having cycled in the noon sun /uphill /till you were forced to cough /to receive enough air to breathe /the stunned you were /lost in the present /in your tired body /on earth bringing back concentration /with an iced coffee /and the liquidity and rustling /of full green leaves /tickled by a breeze From: ELEMENOPE Productions CHINESE SUMMER Take between these twigs a grape And deliver to open mouth. While you are at it, Float down the lazy river. Richard Dillon ELEMENOPE Productions Surprise me sometime and say something interesting about "NewPoetry" or any kind of poetry. Jim F -- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com Sun Jun 29 10:00:59 2003 From: CobbCoStudioArts at pro.talentx.com (CobbCoStudioArts) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 07:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] New Poem for Finnegan. . . Message-ID: <20030629140100.5DF054205@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sun Jun 29 11:15:19 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:15:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bush's Vietnam -- & a Poem In-Reply-To: <1e5.c3bcb27.2c2fabc6@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030629100739.01d58df0@mail.ilstu.edu> At 10:41 PM 6/28/2003 -0400, JforJames at aol.com wrote: <troll the net for articles that support your point of view, but>> jimm, it's rather easy to find articles written by journalists all around the world whose research doesn't support Bush & Co. Matter of fact, it would be incredibly difficult to find ANY journalists whose research supports and excuses Bush & Co's fascism here's a poem Times is Hard Please don't burn our shit-house down, Mother has promised to pay. Father's away on the ocean wave, And sister's in the family way, Brother dear has gonorrhea, And times is fucking hard. So please don't burn our shit-house down, Or we'll all have to shit in the yard. Notes 1] a World War II song popular with the troops (for the music, see Hopkins). shit-house: out-house, common on Canadian residential properties before the popular indoor flush toilet. 2] Anthony Hopkins notes: "... a parody of the evil landlord evicting a poor honest woman, foreclosing on the mortgage while twirling his mustache ends and leering at the daughter" (157). 3] Father's away: off to war as a sailor, and so not in a good position to pay. 4] in the family way: pregnant, in too delicate a condition to appease the family's creditors. 5] gonorrhea: a highly contagious sexually transmitted disease, evident on the genital mucous membrane: this affects the brother's ability to support the family. Note the internal rhyme on "dear" and "gonorrhea." 6] fucking hard: really very hard ...a reference to the difficulties being experienced by the sister and the brother in earning a living? 7] Repeating the first line, increasing the pathos of the speaker's appeal, and emphasized by one more metrical foot. 8] in the yard: a North Americanism ... the British would say "the garden." From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Sun Jun 29 12:34:05 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 09:34:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bush's Vietnam -- & a Poem References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030629100739.01d58df0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <3EFF14FC.E1DEAE28@earthlink.net> Gabe: I'm going to use your poem and notes the next time some lit person needles me and doesn't know a poem from a parse's ass. - Jim Tell All Mantra there is little doubt proof that is not proof can't be more precise than that because we don't know Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > At 10:41 PM 6/28/2003 -0400, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > < >troll the net for articles that support your point of view, but>> > > jimm, it's rather easy to find articles written by journalists all around > the world whose research doesn't support Bush & Co. Matter of fact, it > would be incredibly difficult to find ANY journalists whose research > supports and excuses Bush & Co's fascism here's a poem > > Times is Hard > Please don't burn our shit-house down, > Mother has promised to pay. > Father's away on the ocean wave, > And sister's in the family way, > > Brother dear has gonorrhea, > And times is fucking hard. > So please don't burn our shit-house down, > Or we'll all have to shit in the yard. > > Notes > 1] a World War II song popular with the troops (for the music, see Hopkins). > shit-house: out-house, common on Canadian residential properties before the > popular indoor flush toilet. > 2] Anthony Hopkins notes: "... a parody of the evil landlord evicting a > poor honest woman, foreclosing on the mortgage while twirling his mustache > ends and leering at the daughter" (157). > 3] Father's away: off to war as a sailor, and so not in a good position to pay. > 4] in the family way: pregnant, in too delicate a condition to appease the > family's creditors. > 5] gonorrhea: a highly contagious sexually transmitted disease, evident on > the genital mucous membrane: this affects the brother's ability to support > the family. > Note the internal rhyme on "dear" and "gonorrhea." > 6] fucking hard: really very hard ...a reference to the difficulties being > experienced by the sister and the brother in earning a living? > 7] Repeating the first line, increasing the pathos of the speaker's appeal, > and emphasized by one more metrical foot. > 8] in the yard: a North Americanism ... the British would say "the garden." > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Sun Jun 29 13:09:36 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:09:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bush's Vietnam -- & a Poem In-Reply-To: <3EFF14FC.E1DEAE28@earthlink.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030629100739.01d58df0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030629120610.01df0e50@mail.ilstu.edu> At 09:34 AM 6/29/2003 -0700, James Cervantes wrote: >Gabe: I'm going to use your poem and notes the next time some lit >person needles me and doesn't know a poem from a parse's ass. > >- Jim Jim, that poem cum notes is from the website link on my blog CONCHOLOGY, http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/, the link just under the link for UBUWEB and just above the link for WILD HONEY PRESS. Didn't cite it, bad gabe > Tell All Mantra > > there is little doubt > proof that is not proof > can't be more precise than that > because we don't know > >Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > > > At 10:41 PM 6/28/2003 -0400, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > < > >troll the net for articles that support your point of view, but>> > > > > jimm, it's rather easy to find articles written by journalists all around > > the world whose research doesn't support Bush & Co. Matter of fact, it > > would be incredibly difficult to find ANY journalists whose research > > supports and excuses Bush & Co's fascism here's a poem > > > > Times is Hard > > Please don't burn our shit-house down, > > Mother has promised to pay. > > Father's away on the ocean wave, > > And sister's in the family way, > > > > Brother dear has gonorrhea, > > And times is fucking hard. > > So please don't burn our shit-house down, > > Or we'll all have to shit in the yard. > > > > Notes > > 1] a World War II song popular with the troops (for the music, see > Hopkins). > > shit-house: out-house, common on Canadian residential properties before the > > popular indoor flush toilet. > > 2] Anthony Hopkins notes: "... a parody of the evil landlord evicting a > > poor honest woman, foreclosing on the mortgage while twirling his mustache > > ends and leering at the daughter" (157). > > 3] Father's away: off to war as a sailor, and so not in a good position > to pay. > > 4] in the family way: pregnant, in too delicate a condition to appease the > > family's creditors. > > 5] gonorrhea: a highly contagious sexually transmitted disease, evident on > > the genital mucous membrane: this affects the brother's ability to support > > the family. > > Note the internal rhyme on "dear" and "gonorrhea." > > 6] fucking hard: really very hard ...a reference to the difficulties being > > experienced by the sister and the brother in earning a living? > > 7] Repeating the first line, increasing the pathos of the speaker's appeal, > > and emphasized by one more metrical foot. > > 8] in the yard: a North Americanism ... the British would say "the garden." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Sun Jun 29 13:42:17 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:42:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bush's Vietnam -- & a Poem References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030629100739.01d58df0@mail.ilstu.edu> <5.1.1.6.0.20030629120610.01df0e50@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <3EFF24F9.B8E46364@earthlink.net> Good. I know where to send them. - Jim Tell All Mantra there is little doubt proof that is not proof can't be more precise than that because we don't know - from The Little Blank Book, by The Leadership Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > At 09:34 AM 6/29/2003 -0700, James Cervantes wrote: > >Gabe: I'm going to use your poem and notes the next time some lit > >person needles me and doesn't know a poem from a parse's ass. > > > >- Jim > > Jim, that poem cum notes is from the website link on my blog CONCHOLOGY, > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/, the link just under the link for > UBUWEB and just above the link for WILD HONEY PRESS. Didn't cite it, bad gabe > > > Tell All Mantra > > > > there is little doubt > > proof that is not proof > > can't be more precise than that > > because we don't know > > > >Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > > > > > At 10:41 PM 6/28/2003 -0400, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > < > > >troll the net for articles that support your point of view, but>> > > > > > > jimm, it's rather easy to find articles written by journalists all around > > > the world whose research doesn't support Bush & Co. Matter of fact, it > > > would be incredibly difficult to find ANY journalists whose research > > > supports and excuses Bush & Co's fascism here's a poem > > > > > > Times is Hard > > > Please don't burn our shit-house down, > > > Mother has promised to pay. > > > Father's away on the ocean wave, > > > And sister's in the family way, > > > > > > Brother dear has gonorrhea, > > > And times is fucking hard. > > > So please don't burn our shit-house down, > > > Or we'll all have to shit in the yard. > > > > > > Notes > > > 1] a World War II song popular with the troops (for the music, see > > Hopkins). > > > shit-house: out-house, common on Canadian residential properties before the > > > popular indoor flush toilet. > > > 2] Anthony Hopkins notes: "... a parody of the evil landlord evicting a > > > poor honest woman, foreclosing on the mortgage while twirling his mustache > > > ends and leering at the daughter" (157). > > > 3] Father's away: off to war as a sailor, and so not in a good position > > to pay. > > > 4] in the family way: pregnant, in too delicate a condition to appease the > > > family's creditors. > > > 5] gonorrhea: a highly contagious sexually transmitted disease, evident on > > > the genital mucous membrane: this affects the brother's ability to support > > > the family. > > > Note the internal rhyme on "dear" and "gonorrhea." > > > 6] fucking hard: really very hard ...a reference to the difficulties being > > > experienced by the sister and the brother in earning a living? > > > 7] Repeating the first line, increasing the pathos of the speaker's appeal, > > > and emphasized by one more metrical foot. > > > 8] in the yard: a North Americanism ... the British would say "the garden." > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From ron.silliman at verizon.net Mon Jun 30 07:14:45 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:14:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <000101c33ef8$d489fb90$aff88044@Dell> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Malevich: Off center, thinking with material & shape What K. Silem Mohammad has in common with Mariah Carey Phaneronoemikon defined Reading Kiosk 2 Jonathon Wilcke: Post-Burroughs, Post-Acker pansexualilty with a glimmer of optimism Jean Donnelly?s Anthem A history of blogging (whilst dishing Matt Drudge) Imagine Rain Taxi distributed by every Sunday paper in America Celebrating our 40,000 visitor Barrett Watten?s The Constructivist Moment: From hruggier at localnet.com Mon Jun 30 14:59:25 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:59:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RUSTBELT ROETHKE: A PROFESSIONAL WRITERS' WORKSHOP Message-ID: <3F00888D.26BF237D@localnet.com> Due to last minute cancellations there are a few openings at the Rustbelt Roethke Workshop. Held on the campus of Saginaw Valley State University near Saginaw, MI from July 20 - 26 or the fourday option July 23 - 26. Airconditioned dorm suite with shared kitchen, bath and living room. Check out this opportunity to workshop with peers and attend/offer a special afternoon lecture. Already scheduled are Japanese verse forms, book making (not that kind), etc. Check it out at http://www.mayapplepress.com/rustbelt/