From marcus at designerglass.com Fri Aug 1 08:23:24 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 08:23:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Illegal poem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3F2A237C.750.311D0A@localhost> On 31 Jul 2003 at 10:55, Paul Lake wrote: > Just saw this news item about my state and an "illegal poem." Many poets on > this list defended Baraka's controversial 9/11 poem--or at least his right > to read and publish it without being fired from his post of poet laureate of > New Jersey. What do list members think of the following situation? How > important is the literary quality of the poem in question? Many people found > Baraka's poem to be a tired rant, yet defended his right to remain in his > job. What about the individual below, who was fired? This individual didn't write the poem, he passed it along. The question is one of judgment about telling politically incorrect jokes in various contexts. It may be one thing to tell such jokes among one's coterie of intimates, but it is another to sign one's name to such a joke and pass it along to a wider public on the internet. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 1 08:28:09 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:28:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?Windows-1252?Q?Poems_by_others:_Gunnar_Ekel=F6f=2C_from_=22Karag=F6z=22?= Message-ID: I saw a coffin, draped in green, being borne from Eyub By ten, by a hundred, by a thousand relatives and friends How is it possible, you may ask, for such a multitude To act as bearers for one coffin of average human length? Oh, that's easy, that lightens the burden: The pair at the tail of the procession keep hurrying forward To relieve the pair at its head Who shift their hold and become the second pair Then the third, then the fourth, as a new pair come to the front After ranking as chief mourners, they take second place and so on Until, by and by, they rank as cousins twice removed And so on until they come to the rear and the process begins again In this way the last shall always be first. Death's number is even, life's is odd. That is why the one they bear is the thousand-and-First. --Gunnar Ekel?f tr. W. H. Auden and Leif Sj?berg fr. *Selected Poems: Gunnar Ekel?f* [Penguin Books, 1971] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Aug 3 10:43:25 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 10:43:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: John Yau, "Second Postcard from Georg Trakl" Message-ID: Second Postcard from Georg Trakl I will memorize the lessons and deliver the gifts A stern oaf who goes boating in the ebony spray I will grow stale a blue mutterer who rolls through lands and ditches I will count the huts of red decay their hallways and hecklers In each thing I do I will repeat the illusion of being a brainwashed man burning alive at his dual controls --John Yau in *o?blek* 6, 1989 Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Aug 3 15:51:08 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 15:51:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sonnet Kit 147 Message-ID: Sonnet Kit CXLVII [Some assembly required] lines, 14 a?s, 43 p?s, 18 quatrains, 3 b?s, 2 r?s, 33 couplet, 1 c?s, 13 s?s, 35 sentences, 3 d?s, 18 t?s, 44 words, 107 e?s, 56 u?s, 8 letters, 466 f?s, 8 v?s, 8 capitals, 18 g?s, 9 w?s 8 lower case, 448 h?s, 35 x?s, 2 periods, 3 i?s, 32 y?s, 10 commas, 14 k?s, 4 semicolons, 3 l?s, 15 hyphens, 1 m?s, 13 apostrophes, 2 n?s, 27 o?s, 25 Hal Colourless green ideas sleep furiously. --Noam Chomsky Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From kpaul at mallasch.com Fri Aug 1 10:34:08 2003 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:34:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Illegal poem In-Reply-To: <3F2A237C.750.311D0A@localhost> References: <3F2A237C.750.311D0A@localhost> Message-ID: <20030801093353.S64550@kpaul.spinweb.net> So, I guess i'm the illegal poet now, eh? -kpaul mallasch.com/mug/ On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Marcus Bales wrote: > On 31 Jul 2003 at 10:55, Paul Lake wrote: > > Just saw this news item about my state and an "illegal poem." Many poets on > > this list defended Baraka's controversial 9/11 poem--or at least his right > > to read and publish it without being fired from his post of poet laureate of > > New Jersey. What do list members think of the following situation? How > > important is the literary quality of the poem in question? Many people found > > Baraka's poem to be a tired rant, yet defended his right to remain in his > > job. What about the individual below, who was fired? > > This individual didn't write the poem, he passed it along. The > question is one of judgment about telling politically incorrect jokes > in various contexts. It may be one thing to tell such jokes among > one's coterie of intimates, but it is another to sign one's name to > such a joke and pass it along to a wider public on the internet. > > > Marcus Bales > > marcus at designerglass.com > http://www.designerglass.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From JforJames at aol.com Sun Aug 3 20:29:09 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 20:29:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Illegal poem Message-ID: <175.1e4bc7f0.2c5f02d5@aol.com> In a message dated 8/1/03 8:20:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcus at designerglass.com writes: > Just saw this news item about my state and an "illegal poem." Many poets on > > this list defended Baraka's controversial 9/11 poem--or at least his right > > to read and publish it without being fired from his post of poet laureate > of > > New Jersey. What do list members think of the following situation? How > > important is the literary quality of the poem in question? Many people > found > > Baraka's poem to be a tired rant, yet defended his right to remain in his > > job. What about the individual below, who was fired? > > This individual didn't write the poem, he passed it along. The > question is one of judgment about telling politically incorrect jokes > in various contexts. It may be one thing to tell such jokes among > one's coterie of intimates, but it is another to sign one's name to > such a joke and pass it along to a wider public on the internet. I agree. I don't see a double standard or direct parallel between the two cases. This (latter incident) is something any thinking employee (government or private) should by now know to avoid. In the former case, the folks who should have been sacked were those who nominated and approved of Baraka's selection as NJ Poet Laureate. What were they thinking? If they'd read anything of his work they would have known he was not going to be writing paeans to Joisey's governor McGreevy or odes to the Garden State Parkway. They asked for Baraka, and they got what they asked for. Finnegan From JforJames at aol.com Sun Aug 3 20:56:53 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 20:56:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 from the BigSmall Message-ID: <177.1e3c09fd.2c5f0955@aol.com> Subj: 2 from the BigSmall Date: 7/30/03 12:47:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: editors at bigsmallpressmall.com (BigSmallPressMall) Reply-to: editors at bigsmallpressmall.com (BigSmallPressMall) 2 very cheap midsummer deals from the BigSmallPressMall! 1. A one-year subscription to both Open City and Fence for only $20--a $30 savings. Both are journals of prose, poetry, and art; Open City comes out three times a year, Fence twice a year. Click here for more info and to place an order: http://www.bigsmallpressmall.com/package.html#pack4 2. Given, poetry by Arielle Greenberg (Verse Press) and Jokes Told in Heaven About Babies, drawings and prose by Lucy Thomas (McSweeney's) for only $15--a 25% savings. Click here for info and ordering: http://www.bigsmallpressmall.com/package.html#pack5 The BigSmallPressMall is an online alliance of Fence, McSweeney's, Open City, and Verse. More at http://www.bigsmallpressmall.com From mandolin at mac.com Sun Aug 3 22:05:07 2003 From: mandolin at mac.com (Michael Snider) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 22:05:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Illegal poem In-Reply-To: <175.1e4bc7f0.2c5f02d5@aol.com> Message-ID: <11C9B013-C620-11D7-AC3D-000393C29586@mac.com> On Sunday, August 3, 2003, at 08:29 PM, JforJames at aol.com wrote: > the folks who should have been sacked were those who nominated > and approved of Baraka's selection as NJ Poet Laureate. > What were they thinking? If they'd read anything of his work they > would > have known he was not going to be writing paeans to Joisey's governor > McGreevy or odes to the Garden State Parkway. > They asked for Baraka, and they got what they asked for. Hearty agreement. From ron.silliman at verizon.net Mon Aug 4 07:10:30 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 07:10:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: The New Look Message-ID: <000001c35a79$08a46500$4070ed41@Dell> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ * now with a new look & new features * recent commentary: Philip Guston: Poet's painter It's not happening at the zoo What came in the mail "Ordinary poems," defined The perfect audience Regional variations among bloggers Nick Lawrence replies to Louis Cabri: does Bruce Andrews write satire? A vacation reading list Questions & more questions re flarf. Mary Burger's poetry Robert Lowell & the poetics of the Third Way Louis Cabri on allusions, up or down Spidertangle: the_book On the margins between poetry & visual art come needlepoint & more http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Aug 5 08:52:24 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:52:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Anne Waldman, "How the Sestina (Yawn) Works" Message-ID: How the Sestina (Yawn) Works I opened this poem with a yawn thinking how tired I am of revolution the way it's presented on television isn't exactly poetry You could use some more methedrine if you ask me personally People should be treated personally there's another yawn here's some more methedrine Thanks Now about this revolution What do you think? What is poetry? Is it like television? Now I get up and turn off the television Whew! It was getting to me personally I think it is like poetry Yawn it's 4 AM yawn yawn This new record is one big revolution if you were listening you'd understand methedrine isn't the greatest drug no not methedrine it's no fun for watching television You want to jump up have a revolution about something that affects you personally When you're busy and involved you never yawn it's more like feeling, like energy, like poetry I really like to write poetry it's more fun than grass, acid, THC, methedrine If I can't write I start to yawn and it's time to sit back, watch television see what's happening to me personally: war, strike, starvation, revolution This is a sample of my own revolution taking the easy way out of poetry I want it to hit you all personally like a shot of extra-strong methedrine so you'll become your own television Become your own yawn! O giant yawn, violent revolution silent television, beautiful poetry most deadly methedrine I choose all of you for my poem personally --Anne Waldman fr. *O My Life!* [New York: Angel Hair Books, 1969] in *The Angel Hair Anthology* [New York, Granary Books, 2001] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Aug 5 08:52:25 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:52:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] On abusive contracts Message-ID: <000401c35b50$6b75cf20$bb3d1f43@computer> Abusive contracts are not unnoticed by the current *New Yorker*, thanks to good ol' Roz Chast. Here's the text: The Ultimate Contract Acme Co. You, (your name here), hereby grant the entire, complete rights to everything you've ever thought, made, or done to Acme Co., in perpetuity and throughout the Universe; and even if one day they find a door in the Universe that leads to a whole new *non*-Universe place, or somebody invents a time-stopping machine so that "perpetuity" no longer exists, or everything falls into a black hole and nobody knows which end is up and we're all dead anyway, so who cares--we'll STILL own all those rights, so stop whining. Sign or don't sign, but face reality for once in your life, because *this is the way the world works, pal.* ________________________ signature here ==== Hal Context is everything that content is not. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { Found in the New Writer magazine: { High jinks in California { Meg Weaver writes: Today freelance writers are increasingly confronted with { abusive contracts, demanding increasing rights and protection for publishers { - at very little pay. To help educate writers how to fight back, Wooden { Horse Publishing a magazine news and resource website at { http://www.woodenhorsepub.com published how one writer fought back. Our { free newsletter, the Wooden Horse News Alert, has just published the entire { new contract of Fancy Publications, a pets and animal magazine and book { publisher (DOG FANCY, HORSE ILLUSTRATED, AQUARIUM FISH MAGAZINE), which they { recently introduced to their contributors. After some soul-searching, one of { their regular freelancers just couldn't sign it and courageously returned it { to the publisher with some very insightful notes. We published these as well { for a compelling and educational read on the plight of freelance writers. { You can find the newsletter at { http://www.woodenhorsepub.com/newsalerts/na6-24-03.htm { If you are interested in writer's rights, you should find this document { highly educational and moving. This is just one of the many topics we { publish of interest to writers on a regular basis. The newsletter is free { and new subscribers can sign up on the website at http://www.woodenhorsepub { or by contacting mailto:mweaver at woodenhorsepub.com From Cadaly at aol.com Wed Aug 6 10:03:13 2003 From: Cadaly at aol.com (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:03:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: <1a5.17a932da.2c6264a1@aol.com> NOT TALKING A short story about friendship by David Finkle. David's theatre reviews have appeared in the Village Voice, the New Yorker and the New York Times. http://www.nthposition.com/fiction_finkle.html BOOMTOWN ROOSKY SING THIS SONG A short story about radiation by Tom Bradley. Tom teaches at the University of Nagasaki and writes damn fine stories. http://www.nthposition.com/fiction_boomtown.html PLUS... This month's poetry from Simon Barraclough, Jason Christie, Catherine Daly, Andrew Dilger, Douglas Isaac, Halvard Johnson, Valeria Melchioretto, Patricia Nolan, Chelsea Rooney, Sina Queyras and Max Winter... And Noel Rooney's review of the contentious 'Crossroads to Islam' http://www.nthposition.com/poetrymain.html http://www.nthposition.com/reviews_rooney7.html Enjoy them. More stuff as soon as my spare room gets down below its current sweltering 95 degrees... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Aug 6 11:27:54 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 11:27:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Vito Acconci, untitled Message-ID: Now I will tell you a secret: I am nodding my head. Now I will tell you the truth: I am stretching. Now I will tell you something that can't be questioned: I am waving my hands. Now I will tell you the facts: I am waving my leg. Now I will tell you something you can't know: I am changing position. Now I will tell you what I swear is true: I am turning around. Now I will tell you something there is no reason to doubt: I am bending over. Now I will tell you something that can be proven: I am raising my eyes. Now I will tell you something there is no denying: I am folding my arms. Now I will tell you something that he says is so: I am shrugging my shoulders. Now I will tell you something he says he read in a book: I am crossing my legs. Now I am walking: Like this. Now I am building it: That way. Now I am removing it: In this manner. Now I am putting it in place: Just like that. Now I am looking at it: That's how. Now I am taking it: This way. --Vito Acconci in *Open City* Number Five Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 7 09:25:11 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:25:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: James Shea, "Haiku" Message-ID: Haiku Upon Kissing You after You Vomited. Upon Walking You Home and You Pissing in Your Pants. Upon Asking a Complete Stranger about Our Situation. Upon Reading Issa's Prescripts "Issa in a State of Illness" "At Being Bewildered on Waking" and Realizing the Haiku Poets Were Not So Laconic and How Could They Be? Poem Before Dying. Poem Shortly Before I Head to Dinner. Poem in Which I Enter Drops of Dew Like a Man with Tiny Keys. Hitomaro has a poem called On Seeing the Body of a Man Lying among the Stones on the Island of Samine in Sanuki Province. Kanyu's short poem is called A Poem Shown to My Niece Sonsho on Reaching the Barrier of the Ran after Being Relegated to an Inferior Position. Poem Louis Aragon Would Be Proud Of. Poem I'll Never Show You. Poem Written in a Bugs Bunny Cartoon as the Plane's Controls Come Off in My Hands. Poem that Jerks Around Like a Hamster in a Bag. Basho wrote a haiku for his students that he claimed was his death poem. The night before he said that for the last 20 years every poem he had written had been his death poem. Upon No Longer Recalling My Thoughts When I Was a Boy Within My Father's Stare. At Being Exhausted at Having to Explain Why Using Slang Is More Fun than Reading a Dictionary of Slang. The poet Saikaku once wrote 23,500 verses in 24 hours. Basho saw Mt. Nikko and said, "I was filled with such awe that I hesitated to write a poem." Upon Looking Past You into the Mattress, into the Faces of Prior Lovers. Upon Trying to Cultivate My Inner Life While Also Killing My Ego. On Watching a 200 pd. Endangered Orangutan Rape My Wife While She Shouts at Me Not to Shoot Him. On Seeing a Blood-Shot Spanish Boy Who Was Not Even Crying He Was So Sad And Not Even Crying He Was So Sad. Poem in Which I Embody a Moment So Vividly, So Succinctly, Yet Decorate It with Such Sills, Such Elaborations. Upon Doodling Your Name Which Became Your Face Emerging from Day-Old Coals. Upon Reading that Basho Believed "A Haiku Revealing 70 to 80% of Its Subject Is Good, Yet Those Revealing 50 to 60% Will Never Bore Us." On Finally Leaving My Attic and Hearing English for the First Time in 20 Years and It Sounding Like an Animal's Cry Before It Attacks. Poem in Response to Flying all the Way to Rome to Meet You and Being Dumped at the Airport. Peom about the Next Two Weeks We Spent Together. Poem as I Sit on this Curb with My Head in My Hands. Poem After Learning the Japanese Word for the Simultaneous Feeling of Love and Hatred. Poem for the Mountain at the End of My Street. Poem in Response to Some of My Recent Poems that Seem to Have Been Written Inside of an Aquarium. On Spending a Week in Silence at a Monastery and Not Being Allowed Pen or Paper. On Meditating and Feeling Like I Was a Blue Flame. On Getting Up and Scribbling Something in the Bathroom. On Stopping at the Train Tracks and Having a Deer Break His Head Through My Passenger Window, Stare at Me, and Then Run Back into the Wood. --James Shea in *Jubilat* #4, 2002 Hal, wondering if "Sills" up there [sic] should be "Skills" Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From barry.spacks at verizon.net Thu Aug 7 12:58:46 2003 From: barry.spacks at verizon.net (Barry Spacks) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 09:58:46 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eyebows on the Widowsills In-Reply-To: <200308071601.h77G12ST028234@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030807095456.00b30210@incoming.verizon.net> At 12:01 PM 8/7/2003 -0400, Hal wrote: > wondering if "Sills" up there [sic] should be "Skills" Nah, Hal, it's "Sills," as in Poem Emboldened with Sills on the Morning Commute toward Dewa Chen Where the Deer and the Billebong Play -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Aug 7 13:06:54 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:06:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Eyebows on the Widowsills Message-ID: <193.1e213e5f.2c63e12e@cs.com> In a message dated 8/7/2003 12:03:33 PM Central Daylight Time, barry.spacks at verizon.net writes: > > >> wondering if "Sills" up there [sic] should be "Skills" >> > Nah, Hal, it's "Sills," as in > Poem Emboldened with Sills on the Morning Commute > toward Dewa Chen Where the Deer and the Billebong Play Are we talking Steven Sills? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 7 14:00:13 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 14:00:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Eyebows on the Widowsills In-Reply-To: <193.1e213e5f.2c63e12e@cs.com> Message-ID: Are we talking Steven Sills? ===== Nah--Beverly. Hal Context is everything that content is not. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 7 23:52:34 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 23:52:34 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] On a business trip to LA Message-ID: <12c.2f8920f2.2c647882@aol.com> I was in the Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena on Wednesday afternoon. I saw a show that was based on early & mid-century collector of avante garde art in Europe & America named Galka Scheyer... http://www.nortonsimon.org/exhibitions/current_exhibitions.asp#1 Many things in the exhibit brought to mind poetry. An obscure West Coast artist wrote this on the back of one his drawings... In the center of things we stand Where the four winds of world come to us singing. Their song we receive in dawnlight; Their song we receive in monlight; Their song we receive in twilight; And the one which comes in the dark night; That also we receive, singing. Maynard Dixon (1875-1946) I took to that poem. & I presume it was Dixon's original composition. Outside of that particular gallery, I ran into a painting by Kandinsky called "Heavy Circles." And this was written on the accompanying card: Why does the circle fascinate me? It is 1) the most modest figure, but asserts itself unconditionally; 2) a precise but inexhaustible variable; 3) simultaneously stable and unstable; 4) simultaneously loud and soft; 5) a simple tension that carries countless tensions within it. And I thought to myself he talking about a poems too. Finnegan From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 7 23:58:29 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 23:58:29 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Dixon text corrected Message-ID: <1cb.efa343e.2c6479e5@aol.com> In the center of things we stand Where the four winds of the world come to us singing. Their song we receive in dawnlight; Their song we receive in moonlight; Their song we receive in twilight; And the one which comes in the dark night; That also we receive, singing. Maynard Dixon (1875-1946) From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 8 12:39:33 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:39:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] FT Prince obit Message-ID: <132.230f305f.2c652c45@aol.com> ---- FT Prince Poet famed for lyrical images of Soldiers Bathing Anthony Howell Friday August 8, 2003 The Guardian FT Prince, who has died aged 90, was the author of Soldiers Bathing, one of the best-loved poems of the second world war. More recently, he has come to be regarded by writers as diverse as Geoffrey Hill and the American innovator John Ashbery as one of the most significant poets of the 20th century. Frank Prince was born in Kimberley, South Africa; his father, Harry Prinz, was a Jewish diamond expert of Dutch extraction, via Hatton Garden; his mother, Margaret Heatherington, was a Presbyterian from lowland Scotland. On his 90th birthday, Frank informed his assembled guests that he had suffered a nervous breakdown at the age of five, and that, subsequently, his mother, a respected teacher, had arranged that he should be exempted from all games. He referred to this as "a tragedy", but it may have furthered his passion for reading, and bestowed on him the literary erudition for which he was renowned. His book, The Italian Element In Milton's Verse, first published in 1951, is still regarded as a key work. Soldiers Bathing, written in 1942, was included in More Poems From The Forces, edited by Padrych Rhys in 1943 and in the 1951 edition of The Faber Book Of Modern Verse. It is essentially a poem sanctifying the end of battle, though clearly cognisant of the suffering that has been the prologue to the lyrical image it presents of soldiers relaxing by a river. This vision the poet compares to an incident in a Michelangelo cartoon, and a print by another Renaissance artist, Pollaiuolo, of naked warriors bearing arms. The lines are long, and the sentences complex: "They dry themselves and dress,/ Combing their hair, forget the fear and shame of nakedness./ Because to love is frightening we prefer/ The freedom of our crimes ..." The poem culminates in a powerful, yet ambivalent, evocation of the naked Christ on the cross, the blood issuing from his wound being somehow as lovely as the sunset. Throughout the poem, the unassailable force of weaponry is contrasted with the vulnerability of the naked body. Initially championed by TS Eliot, Prince's first collection was published by Faber in 1938. Lyrical in feeling, embracing poetry for poetry's sake, it showed the influence of French modernists such as Mallarm?, a flavour that was later to have its effect on the innovators of the New York school, a group of writers that flourished in the 1960s, the most famous poet among them being John Ashbery. Earlier, as the war against Hitler had gathered momentum, Prince's writing had fallen out of fashion. Poets like Auden and MacNeice were favoured, their work demonstrating a commitment to social concerns. Increasingly neglected here, Prince's poetry remained aloof from workaday moralising. It displayed a maverick tendency - concerned, in particular, with itself. But it was this quality that garnered the admiration of the New York school, and led to Prince receiving the EM Forster award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters in 1982. Even today, his poetry is more widely read in the US than it is in Britain. Prince was educated at the Christian Brothers' College, in Kimberley, and at Balliol College, Oxford. He was a visiting fellow at Princeton before the second world war, and served in the Army Intelligence Corps from 1940 to 1946. After the war, he joined the English department at Southampton University, serving as professor from 1957 to 1974. He then took a number of teaching posts abroad, working in Jamaica, the US and North Yemen. From 1968 to 1969, he was visiting fellow at All Souls College, Oxford, and delivered the Clark lectures in Cambridge (1972-73). He was also president of the English Association (1985-86) and delivered his address in verse. A devout Catholic convert, he nevertheless believed that literature could "emancipate one from oneself", and confessed that he had become irritated in Jamaica at having to contend with students who would only read books written from a religious point of view. Prince married Elizabeth Bush in 1943. She and their two daughters, Rosanna and Caryll, survive him. ? Frank Templeton Prince, poet, born September 13 1912; died August 7 2003 From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Aug 8 14:19:28 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 13:19:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Essay on avant-garde poetry Message-ID: Here's a link to an essay on Fence magazine and avant-garde poetry from Web del Sol. http://webdelsol.com/f-bostoncomment.htm And here are a couple of snippets: . These avant-garde-establishment journals contain a poetry and an implied or stated editorial aesthetic that posits itself as a rejection of the ?mainstream? poetry ethic, that is, of the poetry that existed from last year all the way back to Beowulf, the kind of poetry that favors parsable syntax, drama and story, tension and resolution, epiphany and symbolism, connected imagery, strong, recognizable voice or narration, and some impact of either an itellectual or emotional nature. * * * As with the fabled blind men and the elephant, one finds only a partial view and is thus never able to tell how the parts add up to a whole. In fact, this parts-only view is intentional, an aesthetic, as the editor's note from Fence's innaugural issue makes clear: "Years ago at the Museum of Science in Chicago I saw a permanent exhibit, which is indeed on display permanently in my memory, in a way that not many poems or stories or otherwise crafted images have been. Some years before my visit a team of necrologists had sliced a woman's body vertically - you understand, lengthwise - into fifty very thin slabs of herself. The slices ranged in area as her body had ranged (round slices of hip and shoulder; the tallest slice, from head to toe; a long strip of arm) and were preserved in fluid between plates of glass, upright, scattered throughout the museum. So that you might encounter a vision, a version of this woman - who I think was called Lucy - consisting of a centimeter of her innermost parts between shoulder and foot, on the staircase between the second and third floors of the museum. You saw veins, cartilage, bone, organ, fatty layers, dermal layers, and even little hairs standing up on her outside layer. Every once in a while a section was identifiable by virtue of an outstanding feature, such as a nipple or eyelid. Fence is a literary magazine, not a scientific exhibit. But it is a similar demonstration of individuality in cross-section.. "1 In other words, it's not by accident, this disassembling of the whole into its parts, but by design. It is the willful supplanting of anything a reader might find pleasureably whole in a poem with a series of parts, and not even traceable to their whole as Lucy was, but rather a random cross-section of someone's mind. In other cases, not even something so redolent of wholeness as a slice but simply an ejection of words onto the page, the poet implicitly daring us to pick through, try to identify what they thought. . . --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri Aug 8 07:43:40 2003 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino ) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 11:43:40 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Message-ID: <200308081831.h78IV6Vs185098@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT IT BUT I REALIZE I'VE NEVER SEEN IT--- It never even occurred to me to want to read it until the other day BUT does anybody know where to find that essay (that anonymous review) Whitman wrote of himself when LEAVES OF GRASS CAME OUT????? I must have it! thanks, Chris From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Fri Aug 8 15:06:35 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 14:06:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Essay on avant-garde poetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030808140236.03785180@mail.ilstu.edu> At 01:19 PM 8/8/2003 -0500, Paul Lake wrote: >...the ?mainstream? poetry ethic, that is, of the poetry that existed from >last >year all the way back to Beowulf, the kind of poetry that favors parsable >syntax, drama and story, tension and resolution, epiphany and symbolism, >connected imagery, strong, recognizable voice or narration, and some impact >of either an itellectual or emotional nature. This is just utter nonsense. Sounds like one of Rush Limbaugh's screeds against "the liberals" or "the Democrats." Straw man arguments. __________________________________________________ www.antiwar.com (probably the most useful, thorough, and frequently updated of the urls pertaining to US foreign policy -- also one of the most credible of the avowedly anti-war right-wing websites) http://www.truthout.org (stories exclusively from mainstream media -- for this reason, a very interesting website) http://www.commondreams.org/ (this compilation website is subtitled "breaking news and views for the progressive community") http://www.buzzflash.com/ (very earnest and sometimes annoying abstracts but generally the most sedulously updated website I frequent) http://www.legitgov.org/ (*very* annoying abstracts and profoundly left-bias to this website, but useful stories) http://www1.iraqwar.ru/?userlang=en (a Russian website rumored to be maintained by Russian intelligence. During the major combat in Iraq, this webste provided reports based on US-UK military radio communications. Sometimes carries and duplicates journalist pieces from western sources. Also interesting in that it provides reader-feedback sections. This feedback is often very caustic in its criticisms of the US invasion of Iraq and of US policy toward Israel and its occupation of Palestine.) www.indymedia.org (Independent media source, cooperative. Broke the story, eg, with photographs, of how staged the toppling of the Saddam statue after the "liberation") http://www.newamericancentury.org/ (this policy website is run by the Project for the New American Century, a "neo-con" organization with strong political and business and policy ties to the Bush administration. If you want to know what the administration is thinking or where it's going, this is a good place to start.) www.onpower.org (a compendium of articles and bibliographic material about how US foreign market and military interests have been advanced by the advent and creation of national "crises" -- more of a thinktank website than a news source, but topical and germane) http://www.aljazeerah.info/ (an online English version of Al Jazeera, the news source out of Qatar, which has won several prestigious international awards for its journalism [eg, a recent "anti-censorship award" called the "Freedom of Expression Award" given by the London-based Index on Censorship]. Of itself it says, "Your Gateway to Understanding the world system, American Foreign Policy, and the Arab and Muslim Worlds ..." Very interesting source.) http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/index.htm (Associated Press breaking news. Some of these stories are later picked up by newspapers and are then altered by those newspapers. Sometimes it's interesting to note how newspapers alter the stories. For instance, just a few days ago the New York Times removed some statistics from an online story about how many US soldiers have been wounded in Iraq since the US invaded the country) --"That there are men in all countries who get their living by war, and by keeping up the quarrels of nations, is as shocking as it is true; but when those who are concerned in the government of a country, make it their study to sow discord, and cultivate prejudices between nations, it becomes the more unpardonable." -- Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man", circa 1792 From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri Aug 8 08:47:15 2003 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino ) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:47:15 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Essay on avant-garde poetry Message-ID: <200308081934.h78JYgVs191086@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> Did Paul Lake write that, or just forward it? I thought maybe it was written by Mike Magee.... C ---------- >From: Gabriel Gudding >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu, new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Essay on avant-garde poetry >Date: Fri, Aug 8, 2003, 7:06 PM > > At 01:19 PM 8/8/2003 -0500, Paul Lake wrote: >>...the ?mainstream? poetry ethic, that is, of the poetry that existed from >>last >>year all the way back to Beowulf, the kind of poetry that favors parsable >>syntax, drama and story, tension and resolution, epiphany and symbolism, >>connected imagery, strong, recognizable voice or narration, and some impact >>of either an itellectual or emotional nature. > > This is just utter nonsense. Sounds like one of Rush Limbaugh's screeds > against "the liberals" or "the Democrats." Straw man arguments. > > __________________________________________________ > > www.antiwar.com (probably the most useful, thorough, and frequently updated > of the urls pertaining to US foreign policy -- also one of the most > credible of the avowedly anti-war right-wing websites) > http://www.truthout.org (stories exclusively from mainstream media -- for > this reason, a very interesting website) > http://www.commondreams.org/ (this compilation website is subtitled > "breaking news and views for the progressive community") > http://www.buzzflash.com/ (very earnest and sometimes annoying abstracts > but generally the most sedulously updated website I frequent) > http://www.legitgov.org/ (*very* annoying abstracts and profoundly > left-bias to this website, but useful stories) > http://www1.iraqwar.ru/?userlang=en (a Russian website rumored to be > maintained by Russian intelligence. During the major combat in Iraq, this > webste provided reports based on US-UK military radio communications. > Sometimes carries and duplicates journalist pieces from western sources. > Also interesting in that it provides reader-feedback sections. This > feedback is often very caustic in its criticisms of the US invasion of Iraq > and of US policy toward Israel and its occupation of Palestine.) > www.indymedia.org (Independent media source, cooperative. Broke the story, > eg, with photographs, of how staged the toppling of the Saddam statue after > the "liberation") > http://www.newamericancentury.org/ (this policy website is run by the > Project for the New American Century, a "neo-con" organization with strong > political and business and policy ties to the Bush administration. If you > want to know what the administration is thinking or where it's going, this > is a good place to start.) > www.onpower.org (a compendium of articles and bibliographic material about > how US foreign market and military interests have been advanced by the > advent and creation of national "crises" -- more of a thinktank website > than a news source, but topical and germane) > http://www.aljazeerah.info/ (an online English version of Al Jazeera, the > news source out of Qatar, which has won several prestigious international > awards for its journalism [eg, a recent "anti-censorship award" called the > "Freedom of Expression Award" given by the London-based Index on > Censorship]. Of itself it says, "Your Gateway to Understanding the world > system, American Foreign Policy, and the Arab and Muslim Worlds ..." Very > interesting source.) > http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/index.htm (Associated Press breaking news. > Some of these stories are later picked up by newspapers and are then > altered by those newspapers. Sometimes it's interesting to note how > newspapers alter the stories. For instance, just a few days ago the New > York Times removed some statistics from an online story about how many US > soldiers have been wounded in Iraq since the US invaded the country) > > --"That there are men in all countries who get their living by war, and by > keeping up the quarrels of nations, is as shocking as it is true; but when > those who are concerned in the government of a country, make it their study > to sow discord, and cultivate prejudices between nations, it becomes the > more unpardonable." > -- Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man", circa 1792 > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Aug 8 15:47:07 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:47:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Message-ID: In a message dated 8/8/2003 1:32:27 PM Central Daylight Time, cstroffo at earthlink.net writes: > > BUT does anybody know where to find that essay (that anonymous review) > Whitman wrote of himself when LEAVES OF GRASS CAME OUT????? > > Part of it's in a nice short critical-bio book by Adrien Stoutenberg, long out of print I fear. It may also be in that Walt Whitman's American book or in Kaplan's bio. I have a copy of it, in part, in my folder at school. If you don't find it, ask me next week and I'll type it up. It may also be in the new Norton Critical Edition of Leaves of Grass, but I haven't checked. I just read part of it to my American lit class the other day and they howled--especially since I'd just read excerpts of other early reviews including the one that said, "Walt Whitman is as acquainted with art as a hog is with mathematics." No wonder Emerson's letter cheered him so much! The great irony is that Whitman thought he'd written a poem in "Song of Myself" that the average man or woman would want to read; the only time he did this was with "O Captain, My Captain," which every schoolchild in American knew and which today doesn't even appear in the American lit anthologies! It's not even mentioned in the Voices & Visions video, which we watched yesterday. Go figure. He wanted to reach the man on the street and the only person he reached at first was R. W. Emerson--hardly the man on the street! Have you Googled it? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Aug 8 15:51:24 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:51:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Essay on avant-garde poetry Message-ID: <4d.333a42d2.2c65593c@cs.com> In a message dated 8/8/2003 2:11:24 PM Central Daylight Time, gmguddi at ilstu.edu writes: > At 01:19 PM 8/8/2003 -0500, Paul Lake wrote: > >...the ?mainstream? poetry ethic, that is, of the poetry that existed from > >last > >year all the way back to Beowulf, the kind of poetry that favors parsable > >syntax, drama and story, tension and resolution, epiphany and symbolism, > >connected imagery, strong, recognizable voice or narration, and some impact > >of either an itellectual or emotional nature. > > This is just utter nonsense. Sounds like one of Rush Limbaugh's screeds > against "the liberals" or "the Democrats." Straw man arguments. > I realize you're a post-modernist, Gabe, but I believe Paul was just quoting an excerpt from the article. Perhaps you should start reading your "textes" before launching screeds against Prof. Lake. Even if he's the bearer of sad tidings, it doesn't mean that we should confuse the message with the messenger. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Aug 8 16:32:37 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:32:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Essay on avant-garde poetry In-Reply-To: <4d.333a42d2.2c65593c@cs.com> Message-ID: on 8/8/03 2:51 PM, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com at Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/8/2003 2:11:24 PM Central Daylight Time, > gmguddi at ilstu.edu writes: >> At 01:19 PM 8/8/2003 -0500, Paul Lake wrote: >>> >...the ?mainstream? poetry ethic, that is, of the poetry that existed from >>> >last >>> >year all the way back to Beowulf, the kind of poetry that favors parsable >>> >syntax, drama and story, tension and resolution, epiphany and symbolism, >>> >connected imagery, strong, recognizable voice or narration, and some impact >>> >of either an itellectual or emotional nature. >> >> This is just utter nonsense. Sounds like one of Rush Limbaugh's screeds >> against "the liberals" or "the Democrats." Straw man arguments. >> > I realize you're a post-modernist, Gabe, but I believe Paul was just quoting > an excerpt from the article. Perhaps you should start reading your "textes" > before launching screeds against Prof. Lake. Even if he's the bearer of sad > tidings, it doesn't mean that we should confuse the message with the > messenger. Yes, both snippets I copied and posted were from the article by Joan Houlihan. Her article is more detailed than the two paragraphs or so I snipped from it. Paul Lake -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri Aug 8 12:09:26 2003 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino ) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 16:09:26 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Message-ID: <200308082256.h78MuqVs111690@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> Thanks for this info---what would I google it under---does it have a title? Chris ---------- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Date: Fri, Aug 8, 2003, 7:47 PM In a message dated 8/8/2003 1:32:27 PM Central Daylight Time, cstroffo at earthlink.net writes: BUT does anybody know where to find that essay (that anonymous review) Whitman wrote of himself when LEAVES OF GRASS CAME OUT????? Part of it's in a nice short critical-bio book by Adrien Stoutenberg, long out of print I fear. It may also be in that Walt Whitman's American book or in Kaplan's bio. I have a copy of it, in part, in my folder at school. If you don't find it, ask me next week and I'll type it up. It may also be in the new Norton Critical Edition of Leaves of Grass, but I haven't checked. I just read part of it to my American lit class the other day and they howled--especially since I'd just read excerpts of other early reviews including the one that said, "Walt Whitman is as acquainted with art as a hog is with mathematics." No wonder Emerson's letter cheered him so much! The great irony is that Whitman thought he'd written a poem in "Song of Myself" that the average man or woman would want to read; the only time he did this was with "O Captain, My Captain," which every schoolchild in American knew and which today doesn't even appear in the American lit anthologies! It's not even mentioned in the Voices & Visions video, which we watched yesterday. Go figure. He wanted to reach the man on the street and the only person he reached at first was R. W. Emerson--hardly the man on the street! Have you Googled it? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpaul at mallasch.com Fri Aug 8 19:21:02 2003 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:21:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION In-Reply-To: <200308082256.h78MuqVs111690@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> References: <200308082256.h78MuqVs111690@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <20030808181939.A11874@kpaul.spinweb.net> I tried: "walt whiteman" "leaves of grass" "anonymous review" (with the quotes, all as one search) and had 22 decent looking results. best of luck, kpaul p.s. this *might* have it: http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/lukas/whit/calhead1.html On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Thanks for this info---what would I google it under---does it have a title? > > Chris > > > > ---------- > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION > Date: Fri, Aug 8, 2003, 7:47 PM > > > In a message dated 8/8/2003 1:32:27 PM Central Daylight Time, > cstroffo at earthlink.net writes: > > BUT does anybody know where to find that essay (that anonymous review) > Whitman wrote of himself when LEAVES OF GRASS CAME OUT????? > > > Part of it's in a nice short critical-bio book by Adrien Stoutenberg, long > out of print I fear. It may also be in that Walt Whitman's American book or > in Kaplan's bio. I have a copy of it, in part, in my folder at school. If > you don't find it, ask me next week and I'll type it up. It may also be in > the new Norton Critical Edition of Leaves of Grass, but I haven't checked. > I just read part of it to my American lit class the other day and they > howled--especially since I'd just read excerpts of other early reviews > including the one that said, "Walt Whitman is as acquainted with art as a > hog is with mathematics." No wonder Emerson's letter cheered him so much! > The great irony is that Whitman thought he'd written a poem in "Song of > Myself" that the average man or woman would want to read; the only time he > did this was with "O Captain, My Captain," which every schoolchild in > American knew and which today doesn't even appear in the American lit > anthologies! It's not even mentioned in the Voices & Visions video, which > we watched yesterday. Go figure. He wanted to reach the man on the street > and the only person he reached at first was R. W. Emerson--hardly the man on > the street! Have you Googled it? > From kpaul at mallasch.com Fri Aug 8 19:21:43 2003 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:21:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION In-Reply-To: <200308082256.h78MuqVs111690@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> References: <200308082256.h78MuqVs111690@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <20030808182125.G11874@kpaul.spinweb.net> that is, rather, "walt whitman" ... -kpaul On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Chris Stroffolino wrote: > Thanks for this info---what would I google it under---does it have a title? > > Chris > > > > ---------- > From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION > Date: Fri, Aug 8, 2003, 7:47 PM > > > In a message dated 8/8/2003 1:32:27 PM Central Daylight Time, > cstroffo at earthlink.net writes: > > BUT does anybody know where to find that essay (that anonymous review) > Whitman wrote of himself when LEAVES OF GRASS CAME OUT????? > > > Part of it's in a nice short critical-bio book by Adrien Stoutenberg, long > out of print I fear. It may also be in that Walt Whitman's American book or > in Kaplan's bio. I have a copy of it, in part, in my folder at school. If > you don't find it, ask me next week and I'll type it up. It may also be in > the new Norton Critical Edition of Leaves of Grass, but I haven't checked. > I just read part of it to my American lit class the other day and they > howled--especially since I'd just read excerpts of other early reviews > including the one that said, "Walt Whitman is as acquainted with art as a > hog is with mathematics." No wonder Emerson's letter cheered him so much! > The great irony is that Whitman thought he'd written a poem in "Song of > Myself" that the average man or woman would want to read; the only time he > did this was with "O Captain, My Captain," which every schoolchild in > American knew and which today doesn't even appear in the American lit > anthologies! It's not even mentioned in the Voices & Visions video, which > we watched yesterday. Go figure. He wanted to reach the man on the street > and the only person he reached at first was R. W. Emerson--hardly the man on > the street! Have you Googled it? > From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Aug 8 20:26:38 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:26:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Message-ID: <18f.1e04c49f.2c6599be@cs.com> http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y01Y5106784Y9303482/103-9732267-0605465 It's called Listen, America. I think it was intended as a juvenile biography but it's actually a pretty good short account of his life. I also found several pages in Walt Whitman's America on the reviews; W. W. wrote several. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Aug 8 20:31:53 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 20:31:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Message-ID: <15c.2229ccce.2c659af9@cs.com> Here we go: http://www.whitmanarchive.org/archive1/works/leaves/1855/reviews/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri Aug 8 14:16:42 2003 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino ) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:16:42 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Message-ID: <200308090104.h79148Vs139416@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> WOW----there's THREE of them! thanks alot.... chris ---------- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Date: Sat, Aug 9, 2003, 12:31 AM Here we go: http://www.whitmanarchive.org/archive1/works/leaves/1855/reviews/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpaul at mallasch.com Sat Aug 9 00:38:50 2003 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 23:38:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 degrees of poetry... In-Reply-To: <200308090104.h79148Vs139416@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> References: <200308090104.h79148Vs139416@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <20030808231957.J58078@kpaul.spinweb.net> Ok, guys and gals, I've been toying with some code poetry tonight. Using Amazon's related search feature, I've come up with a simple way to see associations between writers/poets. I'm thinking of maybe making some type of poet game. For example, in 6 clicks, I put these two literary heavyweights together: I typed in Rimbaud I clicked on Time of the Assassins by Henry Miller Then, Rimbaud Complete Works... by Wallace Fowlie Then, Selected Poems... by Paul Verlaine Then, Complete Stories... Franz Kafka Then, Notes from Underground... by Dostoevski Then, Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy, And ending up with Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen All somehow connected, somewhere in someone's mind ... http://www.mallasch.com/mug/6-degrees-of-poetry.php Could a game of sorts be fleshed out or do I have too much time on my hands? ;) thx, -kpaul From MillB at aol.com Sat Aug 9 10:07:00 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 10:07:00 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 degrees of poetry... Message-ID: <183.1eefa51d.2c665a04@aol.com> I think it may work better as a game if it more closely matched the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon game. . with skill and expertise involved. Say, for example, you started with Milton and the challenge would be to get to Kathy Acker in as few steps as possible. Joe Blow wrote a novel about Paradise Lost which was used in the plot of a play by Jane Doe who co-authored a narrative poem with John Doe who was in a band with Exene Cervenka who contributed to an anthology of outsider poetry which Kathy Acker edited. Then again, you may have too much time on your hands! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FanwoodJEL at aol.com Sat Aug 9 10:17:17 2003 From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 10:17:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 6 degrees of poetry... Message-ID: <11b.268194b6.2c665c6d@aol.com> In a message dated 8/9/2003 10:08:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MillB at aol.com writes: > Say, for example, you started with Milton and the challenge would be to get > to Kathy Acker in as few steps as possible. From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Aug 9 11:33:11 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 10:33:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Larkin Message-ID: Happy birthday to the cranky ghost of Philip Larkin. . . . The Explosion On the day of the explosion Shadows pointed toward the pithead: In the sun the slagheap slept. Down the lane came men in pitboots Coughing oath-edged talk and pipe-smoke, Shouldering off the freshened silence. One chased after rabbits; lost them; Came back with a nest of lark's eggs; Showed them; lodged them in the grasses. So they passed in beards and moleskins, Fathers, brothers, nicknames, laughter, Through the tall gates standing open. At noon, there came a tremor; cows Stopped chewing for a second; sun, Scarfed as in a heat-haze, dimmed. The dead go on before us, they Are sitting in God's house in comfort, We shall see them face to face-- Plain as lettering in the chapels It was said, and for a second Wives saw men of the explosion Larger than in life they managed-- Gold as on a coin, or walking Somehow from the sun towards them, One showing the eggs unbroken. --Philip Larkin fr. *High Windows* ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From elemenope at icubed.com Sat Aug 9 02:30:51 2003 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 14:30:51 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] . Re: WHITMAN QUESTION In-Reply-To: <200308091601.h79G16ST009165@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200308091601.h79G16ST009165@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Hah. This is brilliant. The _Critic_ is over the top, greatly entertaining. Reminds me of Upton. _Phrenology_ is also fun. (Must get one of those mapped busts.) Capital idea of Chris Stroffolino to go back and look at this epoch from our Googled vantage. Richard Dillon ELEMENOPE Productions -- From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Sat Aug 9 18:05:38 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 15:05:38 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Trying To Explain" Message-ID: <3F357032.C735D50E@earthlink.net> Trying To Explain Would angels consider Hitler reproductive? The question needs an antecedent, but there will not be one because it was a waking question and the dream shut behind it like a door. A child with no known father or mother is called an orphan. Would angels consider Hitler reproductive is like that and the story waiting to adopt it is about a city council planning meeting, a very large city debating whether to build an outer-outer loop. Someone points out that there will be physical obstacles, and places a red plastic ring on a clear plastic sheet that covers a stiff map of the city resting on an easel. The ring stays there through static electricity, vibrant beyond the yellow and green rings representing the existing inner and outer loops printed on the map. The speaker traces the red ring with his finger, indicating several mountain tops, lakes, and a piece of the sea. At that point, a reporter eager for the press conference says, "Tomorrow, I want you to consider this question." - Jim From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Aug 10 10:11:52 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 10:11:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP James Welch (1941-2003) Message-ID: <000201c35f49$58c40ac0$ab3d1f43@computer> Here's a poem by James Welch. (Thanks, Wendy.) The obit is below. Hal ====== Visit I come alone. To surprise you I leave no sign, my name shucked at the familiar gate. Your name is implied in exile. I bring you meat for your memory, wine for the skinning of muskrats. I leave this wood, not much, but enough to streak your face a winter red despair. Why no songs, no ceremony? Set your traps to catch my one last track, the peculiar scent, goodbyes creaking in the pines. --James Welch http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/09/arts/09WELC.html August 9, 2003 James Welch, 62, an Indian Who Wrote About the Plains, Dies By WOLFGANG SAXON ames Welch, a Great Plains Indian writer whose poetry and spare, understated prose explored the complex relationship between his origins and the world outside, which welcomed his work with critical praise and a measure of fame, died on Monday at his home in Missoula, Mont. He was 62. The cause was a heart attack, his family said; he learned he had lung cancer in October. Mr. Welch grew up on an Indian reservation, determined to become a writer and put into words the stresses on a people left out of the American dream. He won wide notice, especially in Europe, with fiction based on real life, including "Winter in the Blood" (Harper, 1974) and "The Death of Jim Loney" (Harper, 1979), "Fools Crow" (Viking, 1986), and "The Indian Lawyer" (Norton, 1990). All remain in print. James Phillip (for Sousa) Welch was born to a Blackfoot father and Gros Ventre mother in Browning, Mont., hub of the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Glacier County, not far from Glacier National Park. His great-grandfather played the cornet in John Philip Sousa's band but settled in Browning as an Indian agent, married to a Cherokee woman. Having composed some poetry in high school, Mr. Welch studied English literature at the University of Montana in Missoula, graduating in 1964. and pursuing further study in the university's master's program. His first book of poetry, "Riding the Earthboy Forty" (World Publishing, 1971), dealt with the landscape, people and history he grew up with. (It was reissued by Carnegie Mellon in 1995 and remains in print.) His later novels retained a poetic sensitivity, expressed with laconic clarity. "Winter in the Blood" and "The Death of Jim Loney" were set in his familiar haunts. "Fools Crow" told the story of a band of Blackfoot Indians in the Montana Territory of the 1870's. "The Indian Lawyer" reflected on the divide between the Native American and white cultures. "The Heartsong of Charging Elk" (Doubleday, 2000), his last book, had as its protagonist an Oglala man who as a child witnessed the Battle of Little Bighorn in 1876 and, shunning life on a reservation, joined Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, touring Europe with dire consequences. Mr. Welch worked with the filmmaker Paul Stekler on a PBS documentary, "Last Stand at Little Bighorn." That collaboration resulted in "Killing Custer: The Battle of Little Bighorn and the Fate of the Plains Indians" (Norton, 1994). He was a visiting professor at the University of Washington and Cornell University, served on the Montana State Board of Pardons and lectured across Europe, where his books, in translation, acquired a following. He was made a Chevalier of the Order of Arts and Letters in France. Mr. Welch is survived by his wife, Dr. Lois Monk Welch, a retired professor of comparative literature at the University of Montana; his father, James P. Welch Sr. of Great Falls, Mont.; and two brothers, Timothy R., of Billings, Mont., and G. Michael, of Chico, Calif. The author described himself as both an "Indian writer" and "an Indian who writes," but when his first novel, "Winter in the Blood," received a Page 1 review in The New York Times Book Review from the novelist Reynolds Price, he called it "by no means an `Indian novel."' In language and emotion or character, he wrote, it was quickly understandable to all. "Few books in any year," Mr. Price wrote, "speak so unanswerably, make their own local terms so throughly ours." It did so, he added, through "its young crusty dignity, its grand bare lines, its comedy and mystery, its clean pathfinding to the center of hearts." From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Aug 10 10:31:41 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 10:31:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP: F. T. Prince (1913?-2003) Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/10/obituaries/10PRIN.html Soldiers Bathing The sea at evening moves across the sand. Under a reddening sky I watch the freedom of a band Of soldiers who belong to me. Stripped bare For bathing in the sea, they shout and run in the warm air; Their flesh, worn by the trade of war, revives And in my mind towards the meaning of it strives. All's pathos now. The body that was gross Rank, ravenous, disgusting in the act or in repose, All fever, filth and sweat, its bestial strength And bestial decay, by pain and labour grows at length Fragile and luminous. 'Poor bare forked animal,' Conscious of his desires, and needs and flesh that rise and fall Stands in the soft air, tasting after toil The sweetness of his nakedness: letting the sea-waves coil Their frothy tongues about his feet, forgets His hatred of the war, its terrible pressure that begets A machinery of death and slavery; Each being a slave and making slaves of others: finds that he Remembers his old freedom in a game, Mocking himself, and comically mimics fear and shame. He plays with death and animality. And reading in the shadows of his pallid flesh, I see The idea of Michelangelo's cartoon Of soldiers battling, breaking off before they were half done At some sortie of the enemy, an episode Of the Pisan wars with Florence. I remember how he showed Their muscular limbs that clamber from the water, And heads that turn across the shoulder, eager for the slaughter, Forgetful of their bodies that are bare, And hot to buckle on and use the weapons lying there. - And I think too of the theme another found When, shadowing men's bodies on a sinister red ground, Another Florentine, Pollaiuolo, Painted a naked battle: warriors, straddled, hacked the foe, Dug their bare toes into the ground and slew The brother-naked man who lay between their feet and drew His lips back from his teeth in a grimace. They were Italians who knew war's sorrow and disgrace And showed the tiling suspended, stripped: a theme Born out of the experience of war's horrible extreme Beneath a sky where even the air flows With lacrimae Chrisli. For that nice, that bitterness, those blows, That hatred of the slain, what could they lie But indirectly or directly a commentary On the Crucifixion? And th picture burns With indignation and pity and despair by turns, Because it is the obverse of the scene Where Christ hangs murdered, stripped, upon the Cross. I mean, That is the explanation of its rage. And we too have our bitterness and pity that engage Blood, spirit, in this war. But night begins, Night of the mind: who nowadays is conscious of our sins? Though every human deed concerns our blood, And even we must know, what nobody has understood, That some great love is over all we do, And that is what has driven us to this fury, for so few Can suffer all the terror of that love: The terror of that love has set us spinning in this groove Greased with our blood. These dry themselves and dress, Combing their hair, and lose the fear and shame of nakedness. Because to love is frightening we prefer The freedom of our crimes. Yet, as I drink the dusky air, I feel a strange delight that fills me full, Strange gratitude as if evil itself were beautiful, And kiss the wound in thought, while in the west I watch a streak of red that might have issued from Christ's breast. --F. T. Prince Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Aug 10 11:50:18 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 11:50:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] E-ZPoem "Verse and Worse" Message-ID: E-ZPoem Plans "Verse and Worse" ===== ===== E-ZPoem Basic Plan New York State Speedread & the Poetry Authority of New York & New Jersey: No minimum use is required. At all Poetry Authority facilities, E-ZPoem discounts are available during peak and off-peak hours, and $.50 discount off the cash toll at libraries and bookstores. 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Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From tadrichards at prodigy.net Sun Aug 10 12:20:36 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:20:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION References: <200308090104.h79148Vs139416@pimout4-ext.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <007c01c35f5b$550b1c40$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTIONI didn't know about these. They're wonderful. Would any of us have the guts to do the same thing? ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Stroffolino To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION WOW----there's THREE of them! thanks alot.... chris ---------- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Date: Sat, Aug 9, 2003, 12:31 AM Here we go: http://www.whitmanarchive.org/archive1/works/leaves/1855/reviews/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 10 12:25:03 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 11:25:03 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: WHITMAN QUESTION In-Reply-To: <007c01c35f5b$550b1c40$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: If I'm remembering rightly, Robert Francis once reviewed himself--quite negatively. As he recounts the story in his autobiography (the highly recommended *The Trouble With Francis*), he was hoping to goad his friends to leap to his defense. Didn't work, of course. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From: "TheOldMole" Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:20:36 -0400 To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION I didn't know about these. They're wonderful. Would any of us have the guts to do the same thing? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Aug 10 13:01:17 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 13:01:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP James Welch (1941-2003) Message-ID: <24.43f3ce98.2c67d45d@cs.com> Sorry to hear this. I knew Jim slightly some years ago and always liked his poetry. I don't know if he continued to write poetry after turning to the novel. Was there a collection other than Riding the Earthboy Forty? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Aug 10 13:15:38 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 13:15:38 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Mise en abyme Message-ID: <116.27307499.2c67d7ba@cs.com> Does anyone know what this means? It has something to do with metafiction. A student asked. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FanwoodJEL at aol.com Sun Aug 10 13:31:59 2003 From: FanwoodJEL at aol.com (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 13:31:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Mise en abyme Message-ID: <191.1dab38db.2c67db8f@aol.com> In a message dated 8/10/2003 1:16:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: > Does anyone know what this means? It has something to do with metafiction. > A student asked. Think of an image within an image (as double mirrors or the camera's image mirrored in the lens). It refers to an infinite loop -- a hypo narrative that manages to imbed its matrix narrative (in interractive fiction, events that happen in the world within the world). Jeffrey Levine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpaul at mallasch.com Sun Aug 10 13:32:12 2003 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 12:32:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Mise en abyme In-Reply-To: <116.27307499.2c67d7ba@cs.com> References: <116.27307499.2c67d7ba@cs.com> Message-ID: <20030810123104.Q56107@kpaul.spinweb.net> A rather computer generated translation of a definition: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.lettres.net/files/abyme_(mise_en).html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DMise%2Ben%2Babyme%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8 In literature , this term indicates the enshrining of one account inside another. Certain writers thus presented in their novel S of the writers... who write. There is then history in the history . The same process can be used with the theatre , when of the actor S play of the character S which plays themselves - for example with disguises the role of someone else (theatre in the theatre). -kpaul On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > Does anyone know what this means? It has something to do with metafiction. > A student asked. > From cstroffo at earthlink.net Sun Aug 10 07:18:22 2003 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino ) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 11:18:22 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Message-ID: <200308101805.h7AI5i1s254954@pimout2-ext.prodigy.net> Or, equally importanly, the journalistic conenctions! ---------- From: "TheOldMole" To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Date: Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 4:20 PM I didn't know about these. They're wonderful. Would any of us have the guts to do the same thing? ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Stroffolino To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION WOW----there's THREE of them! thanks alot.... chris ---------- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] WHITMAN QUESTION Date: Sat, Aug 9, 2003, 12:31 AM Here we go: http://www.whitmanarchive.org/archive1/works/leaves/1855/reviews/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Aug 10 15:53:24 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 15:53:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Eugenio Montejo, "The Trees" Message-ID: The Trees The trees speak so little, you know. They spend their entire life meditating and moving their branches. Just look at them closely in autumn as they seek each other out in public places: only the oldest attempt some conversation, the ones that share clouds and birds, but their voice gets lost in the leaves and so little filters down to us, nothing really. It's difficult to fill the shortest book with the thoughts of trees. Everything in them is vague, fragmented. Today, for instance, on the way to my house hearing a black thrush shriek, the last cry of one who won't reach another summer, I realized that in his voice a tree was speaking, one of so many, but I don't know what to do with this sharp deep sound, I don't know in what type of script I could set it down. --Eugenio Montejo tr. from Spanish by Peter Boyle in *Jubilat* 4, 2002 Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Aug 10 18:59:52 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:59:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Peter Davison on Edward Hirsch Message-ID: Three sentences that probably won't appear on the dust jacket of Hirsch's next book: "The lines of his poems sound too vicarious, too external, too hard-trying, too much governed by the will. Words themselves don't lie, however noble the project. With- out their embodying the ego of, say, an Ezra Pound, or making a complete surrender to the inner forces of language, it's hard for Hirsch's poems to tell more than the story of a decent poet beating an honorable retreat toward prose." --Peter Davison fr. The New York Times Book Review, 8/10/03 Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From ron.silliman at verizon.net Mon Aug 11 07:38:45 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:38:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: Guest to Greene, Guston to Grenier Message-ID: <000001c35ffd$243e1980$9bfef343@Dell> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Jonathan Greene's pursuit of closure Revenant poetics? Christian Wiman & the George Romero School of Formalism Language poetry & emotion (a note on the New Brutalism) F.T. Prince, RIP The Philly Sound Ronald Johnson's The Shrubberies Reading Robert Grenier's "scrawl" Barbara Guest's Miniatures Is "Pathos" her greatest poem? Philip Guston: Poet's painter It's not happening at the zoo What came in the mail "Ordinary poems," defined The perfect audience Regional variations among bloggers Nick Lawrence replies to Louis Cabri: does Bruce Andrews write satire? A vacation reading list Is it flarf without Google? http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 11 11:59:47 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:59:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Armand Schwerner, "language is poetry" Message-ID: language is poetry Chapter 2 of *Words and Their Ways in English Speech*, 1900, by James B. Greenough and George Lyman Kittredge. "...there are formal or dignified or poetical words for simple conceptions (like *residence*, *progeny*, *quaff*, *masticate*)..." *The number of the dead long exceedeth all that shall live. The night of time far surpasseth the day, and who knows when was the equinox? But the sufficiency of Christian immortality frustrates all earthly glory, and the quality of either state after death makes a folly of posthumous memory.* Therefore I have always wanted to be somewhere else, anywhere anywhere out of this world, someplace simple, to quaff and masticate a Turkish houri for simple conception, a Holy War in my residence--and progeny like the grains of sand on the banks of the Sea of Marmara and progeny like the considerable drops in the Bosporus. "...there are vague words (like *thing*, *affair*, *matter*, *act*, *do*)..." please hon let me put my thing in you act so funny what's the matter do you know I have always wanted an affair on an antimacassar a covering thrown over chairs sofas etc. to protect them from grease in the hair etc., or as an ornament "...there are scientific terms of rigid exactness (like *oxygen*, *atmosphere*, *chloride*, *carbon*, *inoculate*)..." of course because what I've always wanted is a fort of rigid exactness, like To inoculate the air with seeding crystals; will have would, to have to can to would have will, to can have might should may-- subjunctive and out of categories not like the past perfect They had inoculated the carbon with chloride oxygen in the sense of an atmosphere or perfect in the future, add a little doubt, maybe a no... like They would not have inoculated the oxygen with carbon chloride under an atmosphere. What I've always wanted is to be perfect I have carboned, I have encarboned, I have carbonized, I have carbonated, I have modernly integrated my sweet inoculant in soft bituminous atmosphere, how she rises oxygen in her moon belly and then haaugghh she vlarps backwards and I catharized in happy blank, I chlorided--a nearly white powder made by passing chlorine gas over slaked lime and used as a bleach and disinfectant. "...there are words of a distinctly undignified character (like *chum*, *crank*, *bamboozle*, *blubber*, *baul*, *fizzle*..." I played with Victoria she gave me a bawl after seeing my crank tower in the throne-room, no blubber for she; bamboozle, bamboozle bamboozle with me, roll on the red bed drapes, said her. o how the categories fizzled. "...others so dignified as to be uncommon in familiar talk (as *remunera- tive*, *emolument*, *eleemosynary*, *recalcitrant*)..." I once wanted a recalcitrant lover, a hot Latin with purple eyes and long flannely fingers working me, she'd whisper *emolumentum*/exertion/profit in her language, to be paid, and so to please plunging me. I'd wash her ears in lave, I'd whisper: Speech after long silence; it is right All other lovers being estranged or dead, to speak of Freud: *Contributions to the Psychology of Love: The Most Prevalent Form of Degradation in Erotic Live, 1912* to tell my sweet Umbrian "it is possible, too, that the tendency so often observed in men of the highest class in society to take a woman of a low class as a permanent mistress, or even as a wife, is nothing but a consequence of the need for a lower type of sexual object on which, psychologically, the possibility of com- plete gratification depends." How remunerative to be eleemosynary; how civilized to be discontent. In this apartment house I don't know my neighbors, we all have police locks, it is a category for the insane, 1965, a complex state. "...there are words so high-sounding as hardly to be allowable even in elaborate writing (as *exacerbate*, *cachinnation*, *adumbrate*)..." elaborately I listen to my friend Ted cachinnate. "say Ted can you adumbrate? like why are you laughing at me?" (I love these conversations in the head) Ted says, "you Jew me Zen you ethic me phlegm." Too bad I have always wanted to not ask questions. "...and others so prosaic that every poet avoids them (as *fry*, *exchequer*, *discount*, *cross-question*, *extra*, *medium*, *miscellaneous*)..." the miscellaneous makes up the substance. If it is the substance it must be the miscellaneous, the out of focus, the small glimmer off a penny dropped in the beach sand, con- fusion of copper and silicones to the boy walking slowly head down looking and to the horseshoe crab. I send photographs of the exchequer, of the chancellor of the exchequer as a tension relaxer to those who were chosen of those who might have been taken of all those eligible to fry in the Viet-Nam sun. I forget whether I'm sending substance, or the form of fellow-feeling in a joke, which might be rejected, or the miscellaneous, like a glimmer. I prepare eggs, bacon, strong coffee most mornings. I feed, medium man, thinking Troy, Maccabees, Galahad, Gawain, the corny extras of battle good for books. Across the way, tired in the daylight, Achilles calls up to me from his torn sulking-tent. He cross-questions me, it is about modern history. I offer him pumpernickel toast. It is Tuesday morning, friendship and food, a category. We are all at a discount. "...and others so childish as to be confined to the dialect of the nursery (as *naughty*, *mammy*, *dad*, *dolly*)..." --Armand Schwerner fr. *Seaweed* [Los Angeles: Black Sparrow Press, 1969] and in *Selected Shorter Poems* [San Diego: Junction Press, 1999] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From trbell at comcast.net Mon Aug 11 15:02:14 2003 From: trbell at comcast.net (tom bell) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:02:14 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Emotion in motion, emotion at bay or in ebay today on sale Message-ID: <000b01c3603b$15a24980$07e63644@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom bell" To: Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Silliman's Blog: Guest to Greene, Guston to Grenier > Maybe the distinction is that langpo is emotion and greeting card poetry is > a substitute for emotion? Traditional poetry is ABOUT emotion. > > ron said: > "Similarly, langpo has just as much emotion as any other poetry - whether > your alternative be boozy & weepy Brahmin confessionalist, ever so chipper > NY school gen whatever, or the somber poetics of witness all bound & gagged. > All tendencies of poetry have exactly the same quotient of emotion - it's > present at all points in how the poet feels about his/her work as he/she > works & as we read. Whether you call that 100% emotion or null emotion is > almost beside the point. Where there's ink, there are feelings." > > tom bell > > > Some poetry available through geezer.com > > Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com > > Write for the Health of It course at > http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar > http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > art > From trbell at comcast.net Mon Aug 11 15:16:59 2003 From: trbell at comcast.net (tom bell) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:16:59 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] AH HA, poetry manipulates emotion? Message-ID: <002401c3603d$24ae9a80$07e63644@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> Response on a psychology lissaerv to a poem by a gezer: FC, Damn...I hate having my emotions manipulated. If that was your goal, you succeeded VERY well. I'm at the age when the statistics say my husband is likely to move on to whatever comes next in just a few years...while I'll still be on planet for a few more...too close for comfort. cv ----- Original Message ----- From: Francis Cartier To: DIV10 at LISTS.APA.ORG Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [DIV10] DIV10 Digest - 6 Aug 2003 to 10 Aug 2003 (#2003-56) Thanks, Tom, for the info about Fulcrum. Perhaps I'll send them some stuff. Meanwhile, since you and Carolyn Vash both asked a while back for "a wee sample" of my poetry, here's another one. Analyze this from an 80-year-old widower. Not About Where the Radio Is Now I sleep on her side-- What had been her side. If my granddaughter asked, I'd say, "Because that's where the radio is." But that's not it. I moved to her side-- What had been her side-- Because just before we went to sleep I'd lightly touch her warm left foot With my right As a sort of goodnight kiss. And sometimes in the morning, half awake, With eyes still closed, Our feet would touch Half an hour before we had to get up. For weeks, with my morning eyes still unopened, I'd slide my foot slightly to her side. Then farther. And shake awake to feel the sheets were cold there. Now that I'm sleeping on-- What had been her side, I've stopped slipping my foot across. The radio is easier to reach and The sheets there are warm again. --Francis Cartier tom bell Some poetry available through geezer.com Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 11 17:38:12 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:38:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry's new editor Message-ID: http://www.chicagopublicradio.org/programs/arts/wiman1.htm I see that Poetry (Chicago) has a new editor: Christian Wiman. Judging just from the three poems that appeared with the above audio interview, he's a formalist. Not really a surprise. (BTW, Parisi is going to spending more time with The Poetry Foundation which is flush with funds thanks to the fortune given it by the Lily heiress.) Anyone know anything about Wiman's tastes? Will he make Poetry new? 2 of the 3 sample poems by the new editor of Poetry... Revenant She loved the fevered air, the green delirium in the leaves as a late wind whipped and quickened, a storm cloud glut with color like a plum. Nothing could keep her from the fields then, from waiting braced alone in the breaking heat while lightning flared and disappeared around her, thunder rattling the windows. I remember the stories I heard my relatives repeat of how spirits spoke through her clearest words, her sudden eloquent confusion, trapped eyes, the storms she loved because they were not hers: her white face under the unburdening skies upturned to feel the burn that never came: that furious insight and the end of pain. ? Christian Wiman __ Postolka (Prague) When I was learning words and you were in the bath there was a flurry of small birds and in the aftermath of all that panicked flight, as if the red dusk willed a concentration of its light: a falcon on the sill. It scanned the orchard's bowers, then pane by pane it eyed the stories facing ours but never looked inside. I called you in to see. And when you steamed the room and naked next to me stood dripping, as a bloom of blood formed in your cheek and slowly seemed to melt, I could almost speak the love I almost felt. Wish for something, you said. A shiver pricked your spine. The falcon turned its head and locked its eyes on mine. For a long moment I'm still in I wished and wished and wished the moment would not end. And just like that it vanished. ? Christian Wiman From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Aug 11 17:56:37 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:56:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry's new editor Message-ID: <1a1.18db9e4b.2c696b15@cs.com> In a message dated 8/11/2003 4:40:02 PM Central Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: > Anyone know anything about > Wiman's tastes? Will he make Poetry new? He wrote a very fine long poem called "The Long Home" a few years back. He's rather a loose formalist but does prefer blank verse. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Mon Aug 11 21:37:41 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:37:41 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] Message-ID: <3F3844E6.61518105@earthlink.net> It's happened again: a letter from an editor who I don't know from lokrushaspitz about a submission I never sent: Raymond Prucher wrote: > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this time and do not send further submissions until you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering whimperbang for your work. > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > Editor, whimperbang > > ____________________________________________________________ > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 my response: James Cervantes wrote: > > I submitted nothing to whimperbang. Someone must be using my name. > Careful. Plagiarism etc. > > - James Cervantes > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this time and do not send further submissions until you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering whimperbang for your work. > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 Any clues as to what might be going on are appreciated. I looked them up on the web and "whimperbang" exists as one of those Tripod sites: http://whimperbang.tripod.com/ - Jim From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Aug 11 21:49:19 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:49:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] Message-ID: <34.3db8e880.2c69a19f@cs.com> In a message dated 8/11/2003 8:40:58 PM Central Daylight Time, jvcervantes at earthlink.net writes: > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > >Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of > submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > time and do not send further submissions until > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > whimperbang for your work. > >Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > >Editor, whimperbang Are you sure this isn't a character invented by Evelyn Waugh? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbyrne at risd.edu Mon Aug 11 21:49:27 2003 From: mbyrne at risd.edu (Mairead Byrne) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:49:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] Message-ID: Oh c'mon! I'm out of the loop, I guess you must be joking: Prucher, whimperbang ... and I love lokrushaspitz! Mairead Mair?ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com >>> jvcervantes at earthlink.net 08/11/03 21:40 PM >>> It's happened again: a letter from an editor who I don't know from lokrushaspitz about a submission I never sent: Raymond Prucher wrote: > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this time and do not send further submissions until you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering whimperbang for your work. > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > Editor, whimperbang > > ____________________________________________________________ > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 my response: James Cervantes wrote: > > I submitted nothing to whimperbang. Someone must be using my name. > Careful. Plagiarism etc. > > - James Cervantes > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this time and do not send further submissions until you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering whimperbang for your work. > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 Any clues as to what might be going on are appreciated. I looked them up on the web and "whimperbang" exists as one of those Tripod sites: http://whimperbang.tripod.com/ - Jim _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From kpaul at mallasch.com Mon Aug 11 21:56:50 2003 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:56:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] In-Reply-To: <3F3844E6.61518105@earthlink.net> References: <3F3844E6.61518105@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20030811205546.D54799@kpaul.spinweb.net> Someone trying to drum up traffic for their site - i.e. a SPAM? A bored teenager? I'm stumped. -kpaul On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, James Cervantes wrote: > It's happened again: a letter from an editor who I don't know from > lokrushaspitz about a submission I never sent: > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > time and do not send further submissions until > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > whimperbang for your work. > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > my response: > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > > I submitted nothing to whimperbang. Someone must be using my name. > > Careful. Plagiarism etc. > > > > - James Cervantes > > > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > time and do not send further submissions until > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > whimperbang for your work. > > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > Any clues as to what might be going on are appreciated. I looked them > up on the web and "whimperbang" exists as one of those Tripod sites: http://whimperbang.tripod.com/ > > - Jim > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu Mon Aug 11 22:22:44 2003 From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:22:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] In-Reply-To: <20030811205546.D54799@kpaul.spinweb.net> References: <3F3844E6.61518105@earthlink.net> <3F3844E6.61518105@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030811211743.026f45b0@medicine.nodak.edu> Is it an oblique warning that the world is about to end? (I assume that the stock market will know for sure...) Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu >On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, James Cervantes wrote: > > > It's happened again: a letter from an editor who I don't know from > > lokrushaspitz about a submission I never sent: > > > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of > submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > > time and do not send further submissions until > > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > > whimperbang for your work. > > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > > > my response: > > > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > > > > I submitted nothing to whimperbang. Someone must be using my name. > > > Careful. Plagiarism etc. > > > > > > - James Cervantes > > > > > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of > submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > > time and do not send further submissions until > > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > > whimperbang for your work. > > > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > > > Any clues as to what might be going on are appreciated. I looked them > > up on the web and "whimperbang" exists as one of those Tripod sites: > http://whimperbang.tripod.com/ > > > > - Jim > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Mon Aug 11 23:28:19 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:28:19 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] References: Message-ID: <3F385ED2.418839B9@earthlink.net> It's no joke. A friend just sent me the address (@stonybrook.edu) of a Raymond Prucher and so I've forwarded the mess to him. Glad you liked "lokrushaspitz." I made it up on the spur of the moment. "Okrashaspitz" would have been better. - Jim Mairead Byrne wrote: > > Oh c'mon! I'm out of the loop, I guess you must be joking: Prucher, whimperbang ... and I love lokrushaspitz! > Mairead > > Mair?ad Byrne > Assistant Professor of English > Rhode Island School of Design > Providence, RI 02903 > www.wildhoneypress.com > > >>> jvcervantes at earthlink.net 08/11/03 21:40 PM >>> > It's happened again: a letter from an editor who I don't know from > lokrushaspitz about a submission I never sent: > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > time and do not send further submissions until > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > whimperbang for your work. > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > my response: > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > > I submitted nothing to whimperbang. Someone must be using my name. > > Careful. Plagiarism etc. > > > > - James Cervantes > > > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > time and do not send further submissions until > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > whimperbang for your work. > > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > Any clues as to what might be going on are appreciated. I looked them > up on the web and "whimperbang" exists as one of those Tripod sites: http://whimperbang.tripod.com/ > > - Jim > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From hruggier at localnet.com Tue Aug 12 12:02:23 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:02:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] References: <3F3844E6.61518105@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3F390F8E.F2A4B1E1@localnet.com> Dear Mr. Cervantes, Thank you for your submission to whimperbang, but your whimper was not exactly what we had in mind for whimperbang. We like more bang in our whimpers as our title suggests. Please have better luck elsewhere. Sin cerely, The Anonymous Editor James Cervantes wrote: > It's happened again: a letter from an editor who I don't know from > lokrushaspitz about a submission I never sent: > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > time and do not send further submissions until > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > whimperbang for your work. > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > my response: > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > > I submitted nothing to whimperbang. Someone must be using my name. > > Careful. Plagiarism etc. > > > > - James Cervantes > > > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > time and do not send further submissions until > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > whimperbang for your work. > > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > Any clues as to what might be going on are appreciated. I looked them > up on the web and "whimperbang" exists as one of those Tripod sites: http://whimperbang.tripod.com/ > > - Jim > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Tue Aug 12 13:55:53 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:55:53 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] References: <3F3844E6.61518105@earthlink.net> <3F390F8E.F2A4B1E1@localnet.com> Message-ID: <3F392A29.7D4B428A@earthlink.net> Dear Ms. Ruggieri: You have somehow misdirected your message to the editorial offices of *moanbooms*, where we are right in the middle of filming one of our famous performance pieces. Please check your address book. Sincerely, Lee Po Sishun, daily editor Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang, but your whimper was not exactly > what we had in mind for whimperbang. We like more bang in our whimpers as > our title suggests. Please have better luck elsewhere. > > Sin cerely, > > The Anonymous Editor > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > It's happened again: a letter from an editor who I don't know from > > lokrushaspitz about a submission I never sent: > > > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > > time and do not send further submissions until > > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > > whimperbang for your work. > > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > > > my response: > > > > James Cervantes wrote: > > > > > > I submitted nothing to whimperbang. Someone must be using my name. > > > Careful. Plagiarism etc. > > > > > > - James Cervantes > > > > > > Raymond Prucher wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Cervantes, > > > > Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to > > read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this > > time and do not send further submissions until > > you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering > > whimperbang for your work. > > > > Sincerely,Raymond Prucher > > > > Editor, whimperbang > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! > > > > http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 > > > > Any clues as to what might be going on are appreciated. I looked them > > up on the web and "whimperbang" exists as one of those Tripod sites: http://whimperbang.tripod.com/ > > > > - Jim > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards at prodigy.net Tue Aug 12 15:10:09 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:10:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] References: <34.3db8e880.2c69a19f@cs.com> Message-ID: <003b01c36105$597cfcc0$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> I must remember not to keep sending out poems under the name James Cervantes.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] In a message dated 8/11/2003 8:40:58 PM Central Daylight Time, jvcervantes at earthlink.net writes: Dear Mr. Cervantes, >Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this time and do not send further submissions until you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering whimperbang for your work. >Sincerely,Raymond Prucher >Editor, whimperbang Are you sure this isn't a character invented by Evelyn Waugh? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Aug 12 15:15:05 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:15:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] In-Reply-To: <003b01c36105$597cfcc0$6401a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: Try Miguel for a while, Tad. Good luck. Hal I must remember not to keep sending out poems under the name James Cervantes.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] [Fwd: Poems for submission to be published] In a message dated 8/11/2003 8:40:58 PM Central Daylight Time, jvcervantes at earthlink.net writes: Dear Mr. Cervantes, >Thank you for your submission to whimperbang. Due to the number of submissions, it usually takes 3-5 months to read them all in preparation for an issue. Please be patient during this time and do not send further submissions until you have received a decision from us. Again, thank you for considering whimperbang for your work. >Sincerely,Raymond Prucher >Editor, whimperbang Are you sure this isn't a character invented by Evelyn Waugh? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Aug 13 09:34:47 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:34:47 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Mad Cow Sonnets" Message-ID: Mad Cow Sonnets, 1 The general onslaught, long-expected, is now at hand, so nowadays it is wise to carry your paper money in hidden pockets, at least until you reach Baghdad, serenely green amid all those miles of burning sand. Cultural consequences of lapsed faith--America reawakened to the winds of change, three runs behind in the bottom of the ninth. The skin of unbelief stretched out upon the infield grass, the rebuilt ball- park's a refuge in an uncertain, violent world. Today's special, some imitation of light. Organic pizza and sand- wiches on the deck by the harbor. Fishermen still emptying their bilges just off-shore. Environmental issues remain unaddressed, though disgruntled fans find injury-plagued teams no longer give them what they had long taken for granted, take potshots at them from the sun-baked stands. ===== Mad Cow Sonnets, 2 Gwethalyn felt like staying in bed for the day, but something we have no word for aroused her suspicions. "We have nothing on for Friday night," Lou said, frequently. Odious comparisons normally dispensed with, the privy's details did not bear looking into. Relinquishing, forgoing, forswearing--any one of those terms would suffice. Even with her jewels locked away in a safe, Gwethalyn could speak nary a word of Hakka, though she often writes small books for nestlings, hers and others'. We are waiving the waiting period for you while we seek more definitions for "weakness"--your penchant for chocolate, for example. "I feel like a cold beer now," Lou often said. "Strange, you don't look like one," her usual retort. Gwethalyn's friend Brittany, once a province in northwestern France, now ensconced in a former lighthouse on the Maine coast. ===== Mad Cow Sonnets, 3 Major-General Onslaught felt like staying in bed for the day, but something we have no word for aroused her suspicions. We have nothing on for Friday, at least until you reach Baghdad. Long-expected expectations, now at hand, amid all those sandy, burning miles. Cultural consequences did not bear close scrutiny, so nowadays it is wise to carry your odious comparisons only in hidden pockets, at least until you reach the bottom of the ninth, possibly your last chance, as Gwethalyn often reminded you. America's reawakening, put off till the very last minute. Planes full of twenty-dollar bills, flown to Iraq, our "refuge" from a turbulent, violent world, our penchant for chocolate and cold beer. Relinquishing, forswearing. Taking potshots from the dugout at our new teammates, bobbling grounders, losing pop-ups in the sun. ===== Mad Cow Sonnets, 4 The long-expected onslaught, as generally understood, began at the bottom of the ninth--lapsed faith stirred up by winds of doctrine. Imitation light, burnt sand into glass, hardening and darkening the skins of the players. Politicians still empty their bilges just off-shore, wrapping Ace bandages around tired knees, hiding jewels and paper money in secret pockets in their gabardines. Lou's comparisons (made in the privacy of his privy) seemed frequently odious. Forswearing, forgoing. Serenely green, the infield turf was watered by the tears of sailors doubling as baseball players, awaiting orders to put out to sea, their local teammates tripping over bases, losing pop- ups in the sun. From sun-baked bleachers, disgruntled environment- alists take potshots at them. "What's on Friday?" one of them asks. ===== Mad Cow Sonnets, 5 "Teach the world to love baseball, pizza, and cold beer," Gwethalyn says, still not out of bed, "and all will be swell." Her old friend Brittany forks a pickle from a jar and grins her toothy grin in spite of everything. Something she had no word for hardened, her smile--relinquishing, forswearing. Around them, the general devastation, a scent of rat the pols hadn't warned them of. Bobbled grounders in the bottom of the ninth, ace pitchers' arms all wrapped in bandages. Gwethalyn and Brittany hid their jewelry in secret pockets even Lou didn't know about. Lapsed faith in paper money, still serenely green, while the infield grass burned for lack of water. Brittany's lighthouse, long decommissioned, stood on its rock nonetheless, awaiting the long-expected bottom of the ninth, the fluke broken-bat single up the middle. ===== Mad Cow Sonnets, 6 Not privy to the details of the conspiracy, Gwethalyn spends Fridays in her bed--forgoing, forswearing. The general devastation stinks, as she says, to high heaven. Lou didn't know her faith in paper money had lapsed. Two men out in the bottom of the ninth, and the batter's got no eye. "Nothing on for Friday night," Lou says. "We've still no name for the Baghdad team, that slipshod bunch of bobblers," but the waiting period had been waived. Amid the general devastation, decommissioned lights stood at the rocky points of land. "No one at State speaks Hakka," it's been said. Disgruntled eco-mentalists petitioned government for strict enforcement of established rules. Groundskeepers tended the infield turf. Type in any word as you think it sounds, and we'll take a shot at locating it for you. ===== ===== Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From elemenope at icubed.com Wed Aug 13 01:59:22 2003 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:59:22 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: innovative vs. post-modern? In-Reply-To: <019b01c361bc$495ca4a0$54713151@D70HLP0J> References: <019b01c361bc$495ca4a0$54713151@D70HLP0J> Message-ID: Todd Swift: I'd be interested to see what areas, by citation, of WSB that motivate your own work. Obviously, the employment of "cut up." What is it that WSB made or said about making cutups that interests you, as well as anything else you might contribute viz this post-perhaps-neo Burroughsian period. Re: How does he strike you today as legend, as presence? Richard Dillon ELEMENOPE Productions >Hi > >I leave this question open to all, but hope Pierre would join in, as >we were discussing Larkin as Hallmark card earlier... > >* > >I have been writing since late 80s, and have always thought of >myself as working within the "post-modern" scope, at least that part >of it which seemed to move on from Burroughs, as well as the >performance-based side of it - that is, an interest in genre-play, >simulacra, multimedia etc. - my work has dealt a lot with popular >media and cinema theory, in a post-Marxist/feminist context. > >However, I gather innovative poetry, as a term, is more specific, >and is less interested than content than pure form-as-process, >perhaps the epitome being the latest work of Oulipo-poet Christian >Bok. > >How do you as list members square the po-mo traditions of the Beats >and such, with language poetry? Are we all working the same >non-Hallmark beat? Or is anything with the "I" in it, or narrative >or a political edge, (even genre-twisting) considered verboten? > >chris spoke of minority poetry.. how many minority poetries might >there be - and do we form a quorum? > >best > >ts -- From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Wed Aug 13 20:22:37 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:22:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: innovative vs. post-modern? References: <019b01c361bc$495ca4a0$54713151@D70HLP0J> Message-ID: <01b801c361fa$2ad49900$50ddfea9@j1c1k6> > >I leave this question open to all, but hope Pierre would join in, as > >we were discussing Larkin as Hallmark card earlier... I missed that. Larkin's poetry often rhymes, so that makes him a Hallmark poet? Preposterous. > >I have been writing since late 80s, and have always thought of > >myself as working within the "post-modern" scope, at least that part > >of it which seemed to move on from Burroughs, as well as the > >performance-based side of it - that is, an interest in genre-play, > >simulacra, multimedia etc. - my work has dealt a lot with popular > >media and cinema theory, in a post-Marxist/feminist context. > > > >However, I gather innovative poetry, as a term, is more specific, I think of it as meaning something much more general. Like different from the standard poetry of the fifties. Changing subject matter doesn't seem "innovative" to me. Of course, "innovative" means all kinds of different things to different people, though it's not quite as worthless an adjective as "postmodern." This all jabs one of my main buzzers: the need for an intelligent list of poetry schools. > >and is less interested in content than pure form-as-process, > >perhaps the epitome being the latest work of Oulipo-poet Christian > >Bok. > > > >How do you as list members square the po-mo traditions of the Beats > >and such, with language poetry? Are we all working the same > >non-Hallmark beat? The Beats seem more Hallmark than Larkin. Except that they don't rhyme, and their sentiments are mostly the opposite of Hallmarkery. I don't see them as having much to do with language poetry, whatever that is, except that they loosened language toward the kind of interesting misuse of grammar, etc., that the best language poets practice. > >Or is anything with the "I" in it, or narrative > >or a political edge, (even genre-twisting) considered verboten? Can't see what that has to do with "innovative." > >chris spoke of minority poetry. how many minority poetries might > >there be - and do we form a quorum? Can't see what that has to do with "innovative." --Bob G. From trbell at comcast.net Wed Aug 13 22:07:32 2003 From: trbell at comcast.net (tom bell) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:07:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: innovative vs. post-modern? References: <019b01c361bc$495ca4a0$54713151@D70HLP0J> <01b801c361fa$2ad49900$50ddfea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <02a501c36208$d7051200$07e63644@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> Do you have a category for us geezer hallmark poets? http://www.geezer.com/item.html?itemID=26246&psid=fa0940c361476699343466a58e ec7ef2 tom bell Some poetry available through geezer.com Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 14 08:21:52 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:21:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Montale, "On the Road to Vienna" Message-ID: <000001c3625e$a4bcf280$924a1f43@computer> On the Road to Vienna The baroque convent, all biscuit and foam, shaded a glimpse of slow waters and tables already set, scattered here and there with leaves and ginger. A swimmer emerged, dripping under a cloud of gnats. inquired about our journey, spoke at length about his own, beyond the frontier. He pointed to the bridge before us, you cross over (he said) with a penny toll. With a wave of his hand, he sank down, became the river itself... And in his place, to announce our coming, out of a shed bounced a dachshund, gaily barking-- sole brotherly voice in the sticky heat. --Eugenio Montale [found at some unidentified listserv on the web with no citation or name of translator] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 14 08:40:54 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:40:54 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Montale, "On the Road to Vienna" References: <000001c3625e$a4bcf280$924a1f43@computer> Message-ID: <009501c36261$4da7d3e0$081c2dd5@anny> I found the Italian version online, the translation is well-done, maybe current instead of river (he was the same current...), but nothing else; I praise the choice of "to announce our coming" instead of "to lead our way". Il convento barocco di schiuma e di biscotto adombrava uno scorcio d'acque lente e tavole imbandite, qua e l? sparse di foglie e zenzero. Emerse un nuotatore, sgrond? sotto una nube di moscerini, chiese del nostro viaggio, parl? a lungo del suo d'oltre confine. Addit? il ponte in faccia che si passa (inform?) con un soldo di pedaggio. Salut? con la mano, sprofond?, fu la corrente stessa... Ed al suo posto, battistrada balz? da una rimessa un bassotto festoso che latrava, fraterna unica voce dentro l'afa. From: "Halvard Johnson" To: "New-Poetry" > > On the Road to Vienna > > The baroque convent, > all biscuit and foam, > shaded a glimpse of slow waters > and tables already set, scattered here and there > with leaves and ginger. > > A swimmer emerged, dripping > under a cloud of gnats. > inquired about our journey, spoke > at length about his own, beyond the frontier. > > He pointed to the bridge before us, > you cross over (he said) with a penny toll. > With a wave of his hand, he sank down, > became the river itself... > > And in his place, > > to announce our coming, out of a shed > bounced a dachshund, gaily barking-- > > sole brotherly voice in the sticky heat. > > > --Eugenio Montale > > [found at some unidentified listserv on the web > with no citation or name of translator] > > > Hal > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard at earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 14 10:29:10 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:29:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Montale, "On the Road to Vienna" In-Reply-To: <009501c36261$4da7d3e0$081c2dd5@anny> Message-ID: Thanks for your take on the translation, Anny. Do you have any idea what collection and date it's from? Hal { I found the Italian version online, the translation is well-done, maybe { current instead of river (he was the same current...), but nothing else; I { praise the choice of "to announce our coming" instead of "to lead our way". { { Il convento barocco { di schiuma e di biscotto { adombrava uno scorcio d'acque lente { e tavole imbandite, qua e l? sparse { di foglie e zenzero. { { Emerse un nuotatore, sgrond? sotto { una nube di moscerini, { chiese del nostro viaggio, { parl? a lungo del suo d'oltre confine. { { Addit? il ponte in faccia che si passa { (inform?) con un soldo di pedaggio. { Salut? con la mano, sprofond?, { fu la corrente stessa... { Ed al suo posto, { battistrada balz? da una rimessa { un bassotto festoso che latrava, { { fraterna unica voce dentro l'afa. { { From: "Halvard Johnson" { To: "New-Poetry" { { { > { > On the Road to Vienna { > { > The baroque convent, { > all biscuit and foam, { > shaded a glimpse of slow waters { > and tables already set, scattered here and there { > with leaves and ginger. { > { > A swimmer emerged, dripping { > under a cloud of gnats. { > inquired about our journey, spoke { > at length about his own, beyond the frontier. { > { > He pointed to the bridge before us, { > you cross over (he said) with a penny toll. { > With a wave of his hand, he sank down, { > became the river itself... { > { > And in his place, { > { > to announce our coming, out of a shed { > bounced a dachshund, gaily barking-- { > { > sole brotherly voice in the sticky heat. { > { > { > --Eugenio Montale { > { > [found at some unidentified listserv on the web { > with no citation or name of translator] { > { > { > Hal { > { > Halvard Johnson { > =============== { > email: halvard at earthlink.net { > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { > { > { > _______________________________________________ { > New-Poetry mailing list { > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu { > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry { > { { { _______________________________________________ { New-Poetry mailing list { New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu { http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Thu Aug 14 11:15:38 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:15:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] McBride poem Message-ID: If That Boaty Pink Cadillac From 1959 With The Huge Fins the one that takes up almost two lanes as it swims by, if it were mine, I'd let you ride in it. I'd pick you up right now, at your front door. I'd just sit there for awhile, hoping you'd look out the window for a weather test, whatever, and see me in that huge pink that exists-nowhere-in-nature-czarina of a car. And you'd fly out the door as if a holiday were happening right in your driveway, as if that millionaire from the old tv show had finally found your house after all these years, as if God had said, OK, for the next day despair's going to have to hold somebody else's soul hostage. You'd swing open the Cadillac door, pearly as the nail polish of Miss Lana Turner, who is now deceased but whose glamour will never leave us. And wherever you wanted to go, well, I'd take you there because there's enough gas in this beauty to get us to Texas or San Francisco or a good viewing of the shuttle going starward which is what this bygone baby is, a dream machine with real wheels, white walls spiffier than anybody's poetry moon, prettier than Mazda or Toyota, even Infiniti. A chrome castle soaked in salmony sunrise, a huge pink thumbs-down to the rat-box subcompact of modern life. This 1959 Cadillac floating steamy and unstoppable down the road like a comet the color of Jane Mansfield's lipstick, melting around corners leaving behind violet flags of old exhaust. *Did I see that?* a pedestrian says to himself, What *was* that.. . Well, I'll tell you, that was love's submarine taking its time, sashaying through the black lack of imagination all around us. That was me wanting to get you wherever you want to go and you going right along with it, in the pink-as-flamingoes chrome cool boat-us-home Cadillac. --Mekeel McBride. *The Deepest Part of the River*. Carnegie-Mellon, 2001. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 14 12:50:57 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:50:57 +0200 Subject: Fw: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Montale, "On the Road to Vienna" Message-ID: <000b01c36284$3c703ea0$f1737450@anny> Hello Hal, the poem belongs to "The Occasions", I unluckily lost my book, and relying on the information I can receive on the net. "The Occasions (Occasioni)" were written between 1939 and 1943, year in which he started "Land's End (Finisterre)", "The Storm and Other Things" was started in 1956. I forgot the title before: _Verso Vienna_. And I am adding a link here with the entire collection: http://digilander.libero.it/conandoyle/IntroOccasioni.htm Care, anny From: "Halvard Johnson" To: > > Thanks for your take on the translation, Anny. Do you have > any idea what collection and date it's from? > > Hal > > { I found the Italian version online, the translation is well-done, maybe > { current instead of river (he was the same current...), but nothing else; I > { praise the choice of "to announce our coming" instead of "to lead our way". > { > { Il convento barocco > { di schiuma e di biscotto > { adombrava uno scorcio d'acque lente > { e tavole imbandite, qua e l? sparse > { di foglie e zenzero. > { > { Emerse un nuotatore, sgrond? sotto > { una nube di moscerini, > { chiese del nostro viaggio, > { parl? a lungo del suo d'oltre confine. > { > { Addit? il ponte in faccia che si passa > { (inform?) con un soldo di pedaggio. > { Salut? con la mano, sprofond?, > { fu la corrente stessa... > { Ed al suo posto, > { battistrada balz? da una rimessa > { un bassotto festoso che latrava, > { > { fraterna unica voce dentro l'afa. > { > { From: "Halvard Johnson" > { To: "New-Poetry" > { > { > { > > { > On the Road to Vienna > { > > { > The baroque convent, > { > all biscuit and foam, > { > shaded a glimpse of slow waters > { > and tables already set, scattered here and there > { > with leaves and ginger. > { > > { > A swimmer emerged, dripping > { > under a cloud of gnats. > { > inquired about our journey, spoke > { > at length about his own, beyond the frontier. > { > > { > He pointed to the bridge before us, > { > you cross over (he said) with a penny toll. > { > With a wave of his hand, he sank down, > { > became the river itself... > { > > { > And in his place, > { > > { > to announce our coming, out of a shed > { > bounced a dachshund, gaily barking-- > { > > { > sole brotherly voice in the sticky heat. > { > > { > > { > --Eugenio Montale > { > > { > [found at some unidentified listserv on the web > { > with no citation or name of translator] > { > > { > > { > Hal > { > > { > Halvard Johnson > { > =============== > { > email: halvard at earthlink.net > { > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > { > > { > > { > _______________________________________________ > { > New-Poetry mailing list > { > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > { > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > { > > { > { > { _______________________________________________ > { New-Poetry mailing list > { New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > { http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 14 15:24:16 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:24:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Montale, "On the Road to Vienna" In-Reply-To: <000b01c36284$3c703ea0$f1737450@anny> Message-ID: Grazie mille, Anny. Hal, too lazy today to do the legwork { Hello Hal, { { the poem belongs to "The Occasions", I unluckily lost my book, and relying { on the information I can receive on the net. "The Occasions (Occasioni)" { were written between 1939 and 1943, year in which he started "Land's End { (Finisterre)", "The Storm and Other Things" was started in 1956. { { I forgot the title before: _Verso Vienna_. { { And I am adding a link here with the entire collection: { http://digilander.libero.it/conandoyle/IntroOccasioni.htm { { Care, anny { { From: "Halvard Johnson" { To: { { { > { > Thanks for your take on the translation, Anny. Do you have { > any idea what collection and date it's from? { > { > Hal { > { > { I found the Italian version online, the translation is well-done, { maybe { > { current instead of river (he was the same current...), but nothing { else; I { > { praise the choice of "to announce our coming" instead of "to lead our { way". { > { { > { Il convento barocco { > { di schiuma e di biscotto { > { adombrava uno scorcio d'acque lente { > { e tavole imbandite, qua e l? sparse { > { di foglie e zenzero. { > { { > { Emerse un nuotatore, sgrond? sotto { > { una nube di moscerini, { > { chiese del nostro viaggio, { > { parl? a lungo del suo d'oltre confine. { > { { > { Addit? il ponte in faccia che si passa { > { (inform?) con un soldo di pedaggio. { > { Salut? con la mano, sprofond?, { > { fu la corrente stessa... { > { Ed al suo posto, { > { battistrada balz? da una rimessa { > { un bassotto festoso che latrava, { > { { > { fraterna unica voce dentro l'afa. { > { { > { From: "Halvard Johnson" { > { To: "New-Poetry" { > { { > { { > { > { > { > On the Road to Vienna { > { > { > { > The baroque convent, { > { > all biscuit and foam, { > { > shaded a glimpse of slow waters { > { > and tables already set, scattered here and there { > { > with leaves and ginger. { > { > { > { > A swimmer emerged, dripping { > { > under a cloud of gnats. { > { > inquired about our journey, spoke { > { > at length about his own, beyond the frontier. { > { > { > { > He pointed to the bridge before us, { > { > you cross over (he said) with a penny toll. { > { > With a wave of his hand, he sank down, { > { > became the river itself... { > { > { > { > And in his place, { > { > { > { > to announce our coming, out of a shed { > { > bounced a dachshund, gaily barking-- { > { > { > { > sole brotherly voice in the sticky heat. { > { > { > { > { > { > --Eugenio Montale { > { > { > { > [found at some unidentified listserv on the web { > { > with no citation or name of translator] { > { > { > { > { > { > Hal { > { > { > { > Halvard Johnson { > { > =============== { > { > email: halvard at earthlink.net { > { > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { > { > { > { > { > { > _______________________________________________ { > { > New-Poetry mailing list { > { > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu { > { > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry { > { > { > { { > { { > { _______________________________________________ { > { New-Poetry mailing list { > { New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu { > { http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry { > { > { > _______________________________________________ { > New-Poetry mailing list { > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu { > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry { { { _______________________________________________ { New-Poetry mailing list { New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu { http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From anny.ballardini at tin.it Thu Aug 14 15:30:08 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 21:30:08 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Montale, "On the Road to Vienna" References: Message-ID: <008701c3629a$78ea1c00$f1737450@anny> Oh, you are one who works a lot round here Hal, my pleasure, and thank you, anny From: "Halvard Johnson" To: > Grazie mille, Anny. > > Hal, too lazy today to do the legwork > > { Hello Hal, > { > { the poem belongs to "The Occasions", I unluckily lost my book, and relying > { on the information I can receive on the net. "The Occasions (Occasioni)" > { were written between 1939 and 1943, year in which he started "Land's End > { (Finisterre)", "The Storm and Other Things" was started in 1956. > { > { I forgot the title before: _Verso Vienna_. > { > { And I am adding a link here with the entire collection: > { http://digilander.libero.it/conandoyle/IntroOccasioni.htm > { > { Care, anny > { > { From: "Halvard Johnson" > { To: > { > { > { > > { > Thanks for your take on the translation, Anny. Do you have > { > any idea what collection and date it's from? > { > > { > Hal > { > > { > { I found the Italian version online, the translation is well-done, > { maybe > { > { current instead of river (he was the same current...), but nothing > { else; I > { > { praise the choice of "to announce our coming" instead of "to lead our > { way". > { > { > { > { Il convento barocco > { > { di schiuma e di biscotto > { > { adombrava uno scorcio d'acque lente > { > { e tavole imbandite, qua e l? sparse > { > { di foglie e zenzero. > { > { > { > { Emerse un nuotatore, sgrond? sotto > { > { una nube di moscerini, > { > { chiese del nostro viaggio, > { > { parl? a lungo del suo d'oltre confine. > { > { > { > { Addit? il ponte in faccia che si passa > { > { (inform?) con un soldo di pedaggio. > { > { Salut? con la mano, sprofond?, > { > { fu la corrente stessa... > { > { Ed al suo posto, > { > { battistrada balz? da una rimessa > { > { un bassotto festoso che latrava, > { > { > { > { fraterna unica voce dentro l'afa. > { > { > { > { From: "Halvard Johnson" > { > { To: "New-Poetry" > { > { > { > { > { > { > > { > { > On the Road to Vienna > { > { > > { > { > The baroque convent, > { > { > all biscuit and foam, > { > { > shaded a glimpse of slow waters > { > { > and tables already set, scattered here and there > { > { > with leaves and ginger. > { > { > > { > { > A swimmer emerged, dripping > { > { > under a cloud of gnats. > { > { > inquired about our journey, spoke > { > { > at length about his own, beyond the frontier. > { > { > > { > { > He pointed to the bridge before us, > { > { > you cross over (he said) with a penny toll. > { > { > With a wave of his hand, he sank down, > { > { > became the river itself... > { > { > > { > { > And in his place, > { > { > > { > { > to announce our coming, out of a shed > { > { > bounced a dachshund, gaily barking-- > { > { > > { > { > sole brotherly voice in the sticky heat. > { > { > > { > { > > { > { > --Eugenio Montale > { > { > > { > { > [found at some unidentified listserv on the web > { > { > with no citation or name of translator] > { > { > > { > { > > { > { > Hal > { > { > > { > { > Halvard Johnson > { > { > =============== > { > { > email: halvard at earthlink.net > { > { > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > { > { > > { > { > > { > { > _______________________________________________ > { > { > New-Poetry mailing list > { > { > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > { > { > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > { > { > > { > { > { > { > { > { _______________________________________________ > { > { New-Poetry mailing list > { > { New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > { > { http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > { > > { > > { > _______________________________________________ > { > New-Poetry mailing list > { > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > { > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > { > { > { _______________________________________________ > { New-Poetry mailing list > { New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > { http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 14 16:10:41 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:10:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Montale, "On the Road to Vienna" In-Reply-To: <008701c3629a$78ea1c00$f1737450@anny> Message-ID: { Oh, you are one who works a lot round here Hal, my pleasure, and thank you, { anny Hard to think of it as work usually. Anyway, here's your reward, Anny. Enjoy. Hope it makes yours more fun. http://www.visualthesaurus.com/online/index.html Hal "Let's get on with our non-paying work as always" --Bernadette Mayer Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 14 16:44:05 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:44:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The sky is falling! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The power's out here in NYC, and this is now on the NYT online-- NEWS ALERT Power Outages Reported Along East Coast; North to Toronto, South to Maryland and West to Cleveland and Detroit (4:32 PM ET) Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 14 22:09:40 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:09:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Cynthia Zarin's THE WATERCOURSE, Message-ID: <181.1f2d8cfb.2c6d9ae4@aol.com> This poem is from Cynthia Zarin's THE WATERCOURSE, winner of the L.A. Times Book Award. The book is now available in paperback. ******************************************************** Rotogravure There was another life we knew each other We were poor and hungry we lived in a palace Cats supped in our place aloft we ate air Tree were our nursemaids the moss sang to us The door was heavy the reed gate was smashed We drove through smoke we rode in carriages We were far from the shore the ocean was near The sky was jute the wet earth gray ash We spoke in English in Russian we argued The moon wore a mask the sun mirrored its moods In the desert the thirsty went down to the water Hummingbirds swarmed lions roared in the quarries Silence is an envelope noise is paper This is a story poems come after stories ******************************************************** From raynrobkorea at yahoo.com Wed Aug 13 17:10:17 2003 From: raynrobkorea at yahoo.com (R.R.) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Book Review in Poetic Voices Message-ID: <20030813211017.85891.qmail@web11408.mail.yahoo.com> THE FIRES OF SPRING by Rayn Roberts North Oak Press San Diego, CA Perfect-bound llustrated 31 pages plus acknowledgments, notes by the author, table of contents ISBN 0-0674326-2-6 Contact author at raynrobkorea at yahoo.com or at www.geocities.com/raynrobkorea for availability and prices --------------------------------- Review by Ursula T. Gibson Poetry Editor Poetic Voices I found this collection of "Buddhist" poems to be moving and interesting, not only because of the spirit of the poetry presented, but because of the exposure to a different thought-train and place of being to which the author takes us. Rayn Roberts has been teaching in Korea during the last two years, although his American roots show through in the clarity and lack of fear in his poetry. In poems like "Two Ways to Walk" (p. 11), Rayn Roberts enlarges our own perceptions by daring to examine his. "They eat dogs here, they eat dog soup!" is not our ordinary way of thinking. On occasion, the simplicity of an idea expressed seems so utterly logical that we cannot help nodding in agreement: Love (p. 3) If you desire true love without end, first find and be a true friend. The connection between mankind and nature is intrinsic to Buddhist philosophy; if you are not part of this earth during this lifetime, you are mistaken in your life purpose, in essence. The serious poem, "Where Buddha Sits" (p. 18) starts off: In truth, buddha-nature is everything, so then, did buddha-nature play a part in bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima and why are the histories of the buddhist east as bloody and as savage as the war torn christian west? Daring to tackle huge questions of our times and of our human lives from an enlarged perspective, Rayn Roberts leads us by concise, well-formed, and often tender and mercilessly beautiful poetry to widen our own eyes and see more. I recommend this book as an addition to a serious poetry collection. http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/13665 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Thu Aug 14 22:33:10 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:33:10 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] new slope #18 Message-ID: <57.20db6a96.2c6da066@aol.com> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 17:40:16 -0400 >From: Ethan Paquin >Subject: new slope #18 >To: acroggon at bigpond.com >X-Priority: 3 > >slope #18 : www.slope.org > >OzErotica: Australian Poets Write Love & Lust >: >Poetry: Donald Revell, Stephen Burt, Reginald Shepherd, >Cathy Wagner, Devin Johnston, Paul Hoover & more >: >Criticism: Henry/Welsch/Iddings/McDermott >: >: >help us SELL OUT our latest issue, #18 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpaul at mallasch.com Thu Aug 14 23:03:56 2003 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:03:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: found poetry... Re: [New-Poetry] The sky is falling! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030814220111.E33073@kpaul.spinweb.net> http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-08-14-power-out_x.htm Marveled another man, "You can actually see the stars in New York City." ---------- wandering uptown, downtown, not there and yet through the marvels of the internet and modern communication getting a taste of it as darkness fell upon the city, upon the region. ... -kpaul From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Aug 15 10:34:56 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:34:56 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry stinks Message-ID: For those who didn't catch this linked on Poetry Daily, William Waltz in *Rake* magazine kindly explains why contemporary poetry stinks. Except for Gabe Gudding, who does not stink, and Billy Collins, who (as far as I can tell) doesn't necessarily always stink. http://www.rakemag.com/features/detail.asp?catID=46&itemID=5616&pg=1 The essay is called (by an editor, probably) "Does Poetry Matter?"--and manages the astonishing feat of not mentioning Dana Gioia once! Anyway, it's lively, infuriating, reductive stuff, a worthy new addition to the swelling list of polemics on this perennial theme. (Isn't anyone compiling an anthology of laments over the rotting corpse of contemporary poetry?) ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Fri Aug 15 11:45:40 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:45:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry stinks References: Message-ID: <3F3D0024.D725364D@earthlink.net> Well, if William Waltz's in the fashion, and also uses "Does Poetry Matter?", we can use "Exquisite Corpse" for a counter anthology. - Jim David Graham wrote: > > For those who didn't catch this linked on Poetry Daily, William Waltz in > *Rake* magazine kindly explains why contemporary poetry stinks. Except for > Gabe Gudding, who does not stink, and Billy Collins, who (as far as I can > tell) doesn't necessarily always stink. > > http://www.rakemag.com/features/detail.asp?catID=46&itemID=5616&pg=1 > > The essay is called (by an editor, probably) "Does Poetry Matter?"--and > manages the astonishing feat of not mentioning Dana Gioia once! > > Anyway, it's lively, infuriating, reductive stuff, a worthy new addition to > the swelling list of polemics on this perennial theme. (Isn't anyone > compiling an anthology of laments over the rotting corpse of contemporary > poetry?) > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 15 12:22:37 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:22:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Baraka's daughter (& her friend) murdered Message-ID: <155.22d03619.2c6e62cd@aol.com> http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uspoet143413925aug14,0,35930 85.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-print From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 15 12:24:54 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:24:54 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: George Bennett Fellowship in Writing Message-ID: <18e.1e703675.2c6e6356@aol.com> In a message dated 8/15/03 9:59:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, snape at english.umass.edu writes: > Purpose: to assist for one year a man or woman who hopes to make a > professional career of writing. > > Stipend: $10,000 plus housing, for the year 2004-2005. > > Duties: To reside for the year in Exeter, New Hampshire; to complete a > manuscript of a book; and at times to be accessible for conversation > with students interested in writing. No specific duties beyond these > are contemplated. > > Qulaifications: the candidate must intend to become a professional > writer and must have a manuscript in progress that he or she needs > freedom to complete. Preference is given to a writer of fiction. > > Further: for a leaflet giving details in full, together with an > application blank, write enclosing a stamped, self-addressed envelope, > to Bennett Fellowship, English Department, Phillips Exeter Academy, 20 > Main Street, Exeter,NH 03833-2460. Info can also be found at > http://www.exeter.edu. > > Date of application: submit a substantial portion of the manuscript in > progress, plus any other examples of your writing together with the > application blank, on or before December 1, 2003. > From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 15 12:36:40 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:36:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Fulcrum 3 theme CLARIFICATION + submission dates Message-ID: <192.1e8275dd.2c6e6618@aol.com> From: Fulcrum Annual Organization: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Fulcrum 3 theme CLARIFICATION + submission dates The theme of Fulcrum's third issue, to appear in early 2004, is "DIAGNOSIS: POETRY (Poetry, Psychology, Psychiatry)." We would like to clarify that this thematic constraint primarily concerns ESSAYS rather than poems. Many (though not all!) of the essays in the issue will explore the psychological and psychiatric dimensions, circumstances, aspects, contexts, etc. of poetry. We especially welcome essays by psychologists, psychiatrists and cognitive scientists who wish to discuss poets and poetry from this particular angle. We will also consider other essays on poetry. If you have an essay in mind or in hand but are not sure whether it fits the issue's editorial needs, please don't hesitate to query (or simply send it along). Any suggestions and recommendations are also most welcome. Poetry submissions are not expected to follow any specific theme. Simply send us your best work! Fulcrum normally reads unsolicited submissions June through August only, but this year we have extended the reading period through September. Send submissions of poetry and essays to: Philip Nikolayev & Katia Kapovich, eds. Fulcrum Annual 334 Harvard Street, Suite D-2 Cambridge, MA 02139, USA e-mail editor at fulcrumpoetry.com (queries only) Please include a brief cover letter and SAE with sufficient postage (postal stamps or IRCs). We regret being unable to accept unsolicited submissions by email. Reading an issue of Fulcrum before submitting work is highly RECOMMENDED. SUBSCRIPTION rates in the US are $15 per issue for individuals, $30 for institutions. Overseas subscriptions are $20 and $40 per issue, respectively. $5 discount on 3-issue subscriptions. Send check or money order drawn in US currency and payable to Fulcrum Annual to the editorial address. NOTE: Copies of Fulcrum 1 ("A Map of English-language Poetry") are still available for $15 postpaid in the US, $20 overseas. From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Aug 15 12:41:04 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:41:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] New voices in American Poetry Message-ID: In cleaning out some old files, I happened upon a clipping from the *New York Times Magazine*, dated 1980. It's an article by James Atlas titled "New Voices in American Poetry." Very interesting glimpse into a time-capsule here, especially in light of the weedy profusion of articles like Wm. Waltz's mentioned earlier--many of which seem to lack much historical sense. Atlas speaks of the "hidden literary revolution" that occurred "over the last decade", i.e. 1970-80, which was "the bewildering profusion of poetry in every form." We then proceed into the usual weary recounting of the MFA boom, the death of "major" voices (Berryman, Bishop, Lowell), and the proliferating variety of "new poetry". What was new in 1980, you may ask. In this case novelty is illustrated mainly by a group of poets who were then mostly in their 50s, rather well advanced in their careers. Yes, the Times in 1980 was just catching up with the likes of Philip Levine, Robert Bly, Adrienne Rich, James Merrill, and even old Lawrence Ferlinghetti. No African American poets are featured, though Dudley Randall and Baraka are mentioned in passing. Given all that's happened since 1980, articles like this one offer a nice cautionary note about trend-spotting arts journalism, I would say. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From cstroffo at earthlink.net Fri Aug 15 06:00:26 2003 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino ) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:00:26 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] New voices in American Poetry Message-ID: <200308151647.h7FGjgIM188028@pimout1-ext.prodigy.net> very interesting (precisely because it's not---if you know what i mean)... chris ---------- >From: David Graham >To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" >Subject: [New-Poetry] New voices in American Poetry >Date: Fri, Aug 15, 2003, 4:41 PM > > In cleaning out some old files, I happened upon a clipping from the *New > York Times Magazine*, dated 1980. It's an article by James Atlas titled > "New Voices in American Poetry." > > Very interesting glimpse into a time-capsule here, especially in light of > the weedy profusion of articles like Wm. Waltz's mentioned earlier--many of > which seem to lack much historical sense. > > Atlas speaks of the "hidden literary revolution" that occurred "over the > last decade", i.e. 1970-80, which was "the bewildering profusion of poetry > in every form." We then proceed into the usual weary recounting of the MFA > boom, the death of "major" voices (Berryman, Bishop, Lowell), and the > proliferating variety of "new poetry". > > What was new in 1980, you may ask. In this case novelty is illustrated > mainly by a group of poets who were then mostly in their 50s, rather well > advanced in their careers. Yes, the Times in 1980 was just catching up with > the likes of Philip Levine, Robert Bly, Adrienne Rich, James Merrill, and > even old Lawrence Ferlinghetti. > > No African American poets are featured, though Dudley Randall and Baraka are > mentioned in passing. > > Given all that's happened since 1980, articles like this one offer a nice > cautionary note about trend-spotting arts journalism, I would say. > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Aug 15 12:51:01 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:51:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Time capsule II: Leaping poetry Message-ID: Sorry--I'll be finished cleaning out my old files soon! Another time-capsule tidbit from around 1980 is a rejection slip I saved for my funny rejects folder. In declining to publish my work, the editors note that "We hope Leaping Mountain Press will offer an alternative to the poetry of neo-formalism and neo-literalism by encouraging leaping, deep imagery, surrealism, duende, impure poetry, and other forms of the emotive imagination." Alas, I was then and remain today rather deficient in leaping and duende, though I thought I had the impurity down pat. But to be called a "neo-literalist"! Ouch! Not difficult to discern whose work the editors had been reading, is it? Maybe they'd just caught up with Robert Bly via the NYT. . . . ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From JforJames at aol.com Fri Aug 15 14:21:37 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:21:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] KEYSTONE MAGAZINE Message-ID: -------------------------------------------------- KEYSTONE MAGAZINE IS CURRENTLY SEEKING SUBMISSIONS -------------------------------------------------- Poetry, prose, reviews, essays and translations welcome. Please send all work to Tom Chivers 25 Frankfurt Rd, Herne Hill, London SE24 9NX or by email: keystone_magazine at hotmail.com Issue Four will be published in October 2003. For more information and a list of past contributors: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~sann1639/keystone.html From anny.ballardini at tin.it Fri Aug 15 14:36:36 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 20:36:36 +0200 Subject: [New-Poetry] Time capsule II: Leaping poetry References: Message-ID: <008001c3635c$2d62da20$12737450@anny> Now I know how to offend someone when I need to, I'll call him/her: "Duende, duende and duende!" a From: "David Graham" To: > Sorry--I'll be finished cleaning out my old files soon! > > Another time-capsule tidbit from around 1980 is a rejection slip I saved for > my funny rejects folder. In declining to publish my work, the editors note > that "We hope Leaping Mountain Press will offer an alternative to the poetry > of neo-formalism and neo-literalism by encouraging leaping, deep imagery, > surrealism, duende, impure poetry, and other forms of the emotive > imagination." > > Alas, I was then and remain today rather deficient in leaping and duende, > though I thought I had the impurity down pat. But to be called a > "neo-literalist"! Ouch! > > Not difficult to discern whose work the editors had been reading, is it? > Maybe they'd just caught up with Robert Bly via the NYT. . . . > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu Fri Aug 15 15:47:39 2003 From: mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu (mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:47:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] "My Angie Dickinson" at 100 Message-ID: <1060976859.3f3d38dbefc77@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Hi all, My serial work, "My Angie Dickinson" has reached 100 poems, perhaps its appropriately artificial end, perhaps not, I dunno. In any event you can see the poems and photos here: http://myangiedickinson.blogspot.com #100 A willful desert belle goes ?? "mad" ?? Trapped on ?? an Occupied ?? The government set ?? Out to Penetrate ?? "You haven?t called me you dirty bird." Pat Boone song with most weeks at #1? LOVE LETTERS IN THE SAND Bluntly ?? within ear-shot forklifts ?? Wrote, about the ampersand, _Oh William Shatner, how We store The Willful Blindness ?? at the core!_ -m. From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 15 15:57:04 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:57:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Late news and rewrite Message-ID: ABC News Bush Says Electrical Grid Is Outdated ABC News - 35 minutes ago President Bush said Friday the power outages across the Northeast and Midwest are "a wake-up call" to the antiquated state of the nation's electrical grid and urged those whose power has returned not to overload the still-limping system. ------------------------ Rewrite: The Electrical Grid said Friday that the power outages across the Northeast and Midwest (not to mention a couple Canadian provinces) are "a wake-up call" to the antiquated state of both nations' political systems and urged those whose power and perspective have begun to return not to waste time in setting about repairing those still-limping systems. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From wjbat at conncoll.edu Fri Aug 15 19:27:07 2003 From: wjbat at conncoll.edu (Wendy Battin) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:27:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry stinks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Seems a pretty incoherent essay, David. Could you make any sense of it? The excerpt from Gabe Gudding is delightful, but what universe does it share with Billy Collins? Wendy Wendy Battin wjbat at conncoll.edu ---------------------------- How could it be permissible to form a cult, gather followers and cronies, dash off writings, and toil in pursuit of objects for love of honor and advantage? -Tung-shan On Friday, August 15, 2003, at 10:34 AM, David Graham wrote: > > For those who didn't catch this linked on Poetry Daily, William Waltz > in > *Rake* magazine kindly explains why contemporary poetry stinks. > Except for > Gabe Gudding, who does not stink, and Billy Collins, who (as far as I > can > tell) doesn't necessarily always stink. > > http://www.rakemag.com/features/detail.asp?catID=46&itemID=5616&pg=1 > > The essay is called (by an editor, probably) "Does Poetry Matter?"--and > manages the astonishing feat of not mentioning Dana Gioia once! > > Anyway, it's lively, infuriating, reductive stuff, a worthy new > addition to > the swelling list of polemics on this perennial theme. (Isn't anyone > compiling an anthology of laments over the rotting corpse of > contemporary > poetry?) > > From marcus at designerglass.com Sat Aug 16 09:11:18 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 09:11:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Why poetry stinks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3F3DF536.13539.22AC4C@localhost> On 15 Aug 2003 at 9:34, David Graham wrote: > For those who didn't catch this linked on Poetry Daily, William Waltz in > *Rake* magazine kindly explains why contemporary poetry stinks. Except for > Gabe Gudding, who does not stink, ... > http://www.rakemag.com/features/detail.asp?catID=46&itemID=5616&pg=1 For you are a buttock. Indeed you are the balls of the bullock and the calls of the peacock; you are the pony in the paddock near the bullock and the peacock; you are the futtock on the keel and the fetlock (or the heel) of the pony in the paddock: Indeed you are the burdock on the fetlock and the beetle on the burdock and the mite on the beetle on the burdock on the fetlock of the pony in the paddock and the padlock of the gate of the paddock of the bullock and the peacock. Thus with you I am fed-up. For you are Prufrock and I am Wild Bill Hickok at a roadblock with the wind in my forelock and a bullet in my flintlock. You are Watson I am Sherlock. What's astonishing is that this kind of rogetism, what you might expect from a bright 7th grader, perhaps, who has just discovered the thesaurus, is held up as admirable. Well, I suppose it at least purports to be verse in a largely verse-free environment, but that's the best I can see to say about it. Combine this lame approach to words with Gudding's "let's pretend we don't know each other and praise one another's work" approach to the pobiz, and his shrill and hysterical enthusiasm for calling anyone and everyone names such as "goatfucker" who disagrees with the shallow naivete he is pleased to call his politics, and I can't see anything to praise at all. I think if you look into it you'll find that Waltz was Gudding's roommate or lover or brother-in-law or favorite professor or favorite student or gave to or received from Gudding some grant or prize, or something of the sort. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From marcus at designerglass.com Sat Aug 16 09:25:39 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 09:25:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Angie Dickinson and Joan and The Patrick In-Reply-To: <1060976859.3f3d38dbefc77@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3F3DF893.22270.2FD074@localhost> On 15 Aug 2003 at 15:47, mmagee at dept.english.upenn.edu wrote: > My serial work, "My Angie Dickinson" has reached 100 poems In honor of this occasion, I am announcing the email list advent of The Joaniad, a mock epic written in limerick stanzas. Here is the introductory Presumption: The Joaniad, A Limerepic Presumption 1. The banquets of civilizations Are set by the creditor nations Competing to race Their plans into place For material maximizations. 2. Each does unto others as you And I fear all governments do: Their actions confound Their foes, and astound Their enemies -- and their friends, too. 3. And we who seek justice would slice Their heads off and fling them like dice Across the Great Game, Leaving nothing the same, Though dying, they ask us our price. 4. Our price! As if justice for money Were a serious option! It's funny: They spew out their waste Like corruption could taste As sweet on our palates as honey. 5. But wait! I am somehow confused -- I can't start before I've amused My muse with some praises In elegant phrases Like those that the dead white guys used. 6. O Muse of my heart, cara mia! It's always a pleasure to see ya; You're young and you're pretty, And skinny and witty ... Now give me a timeless idea. 7. Two planning consultants named Joan And The Patrick adventure by phone Through email and fax And cannot relax As their g-sector business has grown? 8. That's it? Is this some kind of joke? It's not bad enough that I'm broke? You want me to sing On so mundane a thing? Are you trying to give me a stroke? 9. So that's how you're going to play? It's The Patrick and Joan or I stay As poorly inspired As someone who's hired My last muse: dull day after day? 10. I just hope you know what you're doing But ... Hey! Who'd be better at viewing High comedy than The people who plan The meetings where screwers plan screwing? 11. Wow, this could be it! My big break! A notion at last I can make An epic out of -- With war, hope, and love Whose stanzas roll, rattle, and shake ... 12. Huh? What do you mean don't get carried Away by the vision that ferried Great Virgil to Hell And then back as well ... I can't go because I am ... married? 13. Oh, gods of the ancients, your feats Of malice and lies squeeze out bleats Of "Hey, that's not fair!" And "Why don't you care?" From hruggier at localnet.com Sat Aug 16 12:06:22 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:06:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Time capsule II: Leaping poetry References: <008001c3635c$2d62da20$12737450@anny> Message-ID: <3F3E567D.E8398702@localnet.com> You realize there are several hundred "leaping" puns, jokes, etc. we could make here. Leaping to conclusions about your rejection - perhaps it was meant to be educational. h Anny Ballardini wrote: > Now I know how to offend someone when I need to, I'll call him/her: "Duende, > duende and duende!" > a > > From: "David Graham" > To: > > > Sorry--I'll be finished cleaning out my old files soon! > > > > Another time-capsule tidbit from around 1980 is a rejection slip I saved > for > > my funny rejects folder. In declining to publish my work, the editors > note > > that "We hope Leaping Mountain Press will offer an alternative to the > poetry > > of neo-formalism and neo-literalism by encouraging leaping, deep imagery, > > surrealism, duende, impure poetry, and other forms of the emotive > > imagination." > > > > Alas, I was then and remain today rather deficient in leaping and duende, > > though I thought I had the impurity down pat. But to be called a > > "neo-literalist"! Ouch! > > > > Not difficult to discern whose work the editors had been reading, is it? > > Maybe they'd just caught up with Robert Bly via the NYT. . . . > > > > ==================================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ==================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Aug 16 17:27:50 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:27:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Cid Corman, [untitled] Message-ID: When America has made a black wall with all the names of those of the Vietnamese who died in that war life will have grown up. --Cid Corman fr. *nothing doing* [New York: New Directions, 1999] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From hruggier at localnet.com Sun Aug 17 11:29:11 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:29:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] PRINTING PRESS FOR SALE Message-ID: <3F3F9F46.FEF7F93C@localnet.com> My husband has retired and we'd like to sell some of our printing equipment - a good deal if you'd like to print your own work. We have an offset press (about ten years old but in very good condition), a camera, a print maker and a BIG cutter for trimming piles of magazines/books. There are also some misc. supplies which we'll throw in. We'll let the stuff go for a thousand dollars. Come and get it. Helen Ruggieri 111 N. 10th St. Olean, NY 14760 716-372-0935 hruggier at localnet.com Would someone on the Buffalo list please post this? We are about 60 miles south of Buffalo. Thanks, H From wjbat at conncoll.edu Sun Aug 17 14:53:46 2003 From: wjbat at conncoll.edu (Wendy Battin) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:53:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Fwd: Milorad Pavic at Word Circuits Message-ID: <218D7D98-D0E4-11D7-906C-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> > ---------------------------------------- > NEW HYPERTEXT FICTION FROM WORD CIRCUITS > ---------------------------------------- > The Glass Snail, by Milorad Pavic > http://www.wordcircuits.com/gallery/glasssnail > > The celebrated Serbian author Milorad Pavic spins a haunting hypertext > > story of two people brought together by a shared compulsion. Then the > past begins to emerge mysteriously through their meeting, until it > threatens to subsume the present. > > > About the Author > > Milorad Pavic is the internationally renowned author of many novels, > poetry collections, short stories, and essays. His ground-breaking > novel > Dictionary of the Khazars is a widely discussed work of printed > proto-hypertext that was translated from the original Serbian into 18 > languages and became a best-seller in English. His award-winning Last > Love in Constantinople is a novel that can yield different readings > determined by Tarot card layouts. His interactive plays have been > staged > in many European cities. Among Pavic's many awards are a nomination > for > the Nobel Prize in literature. He makes his home in Serbia. > > > Also in the WORD CIRCUITS GALLERY: Poetry and fiction by Stephanie > Strickland, Rob Swigart, Deena Larsen, Peter Howard, Komninos Zervos, > and others. > http://www.wordcircuits.com/gallery > > > [please distribute this announcement] > Wendy Battin wjbat at conncoll.edu ---------------------------- How could it be permissible to form a cult, gather followers and cronies, dash off writings, and toil in pursuit of objects for love of honor and advantage? -Tung-shan From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Aug 17 17:06:05 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:06:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. James Whitehead Message-ID: <62.3385eef0.2c71483d@cs.com> http://www.nwanews.com/adg/story_arkansas.php?storyid=39098 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Sun Aug 17 20:22:15 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:22:15 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Campus free speech Message-ID: A welcome clarification, courtesy of FIRE, of our First Amendment rights on campus by the Office of Civil Rights. So long, speech codes. Paul Lake * The Office for Civil Rights (OCR) of the U.S. Department of Education has issued an open letter that reaffirms the "central importance" of the First Amendment to "our government, our heritage of freedom, and our way of life." The letter warns college administrators against the misuse of OCR regulations in efforts to justify unconstitutional restrictions on freedom of expression. Sincerely, Harvey A. Silverglate Co-Director, FIRE 607 Franklin Street Cambridge, MA 02139 Tel 617/661-9156 Fax 617/492-4925 mailto:has at thefire.org www.thefire.org In Landmark Letter, Office for Civil Rights Clarifies the Law and Vindicates Free Speech on Campus PHILADELPHIA, PA, August 12, 2003 -- The Office for Civil Rights of the Department of Education has issued a landmark letter of clarification that deals a powerful blow to administrative censors on America's college and university campuses. The July 28, 2003 letter from Gerald A. Reynolds, assistant secretary of the Office for Civil Rights (OCR) of the Department of Education, was sent to colleges and universities across the country on Friday, August 8, 2003. Assistant Secretary Reynolds writes, "No OCR regulation should be interpreted to impinge upon rights protected under the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution or to require recipients to enact or enforce codes that punish the exercise of such rights." The full text of Reynolds's letter can be read at http://www.thefire.org/pdfs/ocr_fire_072803.pdf. FIRE and others long have sought clarification of OCR regulations that many academic leaders have cited in support of campus policies that weaken First Amendment protections of freedom of expression. College and university administrators have defended restrictions on free speech on the grounds that OCR and other federal regulations require them to ban "offensive" speech as a form of discrimination. The OCR statement is a vindication of the truth that no governmental regulation, law, or policy may override the First Amendment. "For too long, colleges and universities have used OCR's anti-harassment regulations as an excuse for passing restrictive speech codes and punishing students and faculty for 'offensive' speech," said FIRE co-director and Boston attorney Harvey A. Silverglate. "By issuing this letter, OCR has clarified once and for all that OCR regulations cannot and do not trump the First Amendment." Among its other duties, OCR provides colleges and universities that receive federal funds with regulations and guidance on issues of discrimination on the basis of race, gender, and other classifications. OCR's regulations affect virtually every college and university in the United States. Non-compliance with OCR regulations endangers an institution's receipt of vital federal funds. Reynolds's letter undoes years of misinterpretation. It states, "OCR's regulations and policies do not require or prescribe speech, conduct or harassment codes that impair the exercise of rights protected under the First Amendment." The letter further clarifies that "the offensiveness of a particular expression, standing alone, is not a legally sufficient basis to establish a hostile environment under the statutes enforced by OCR." "This letter will certainly put to rest any claim by future academic administrators that OCR or federal law required them to pass speech codes or punish offensive, hurtful, or rude speech, as is now routine," Silverglate said. "OCR should be applauded. This letter marks the end of a sad era and the demise of one of the most stubborn pretexts for censorship on America's campuses." The letter also clarifies the proper interpretation of federal laws and regulations by private universities. Though the First Amendment does not directly apply to private institutions, OCR regulations do apply. Those regulations, according to OCR's letter, must not "be interpreted in ways that would lead to the suppression of protected speech on public or private campuses." Assistant Secretary Reynolds writes, "Any private post-secondary institution that chooses to limit free speech in ways that are more restrictive than at public educational institutions does so on its own accord and not based on requirements imposed by OCR." OCR also restates the law regarding "hostile environment" harassment, saying, "In order to establish a hostile environment, harassment must be sufficiently serious (i.e., severe, persistent or pervasive) as to limit or deny a student's ability to participate in or benefit from an educational program." OCR further reminds colleges and universities that conduct is not punishable harassment merely because a person subjectively feels harassed. Harassment must be "evaluated from the perspective of a reasonable person in the alleged victim's position." "This makes it clear," Silverglate noted, "that the viewpoint expressed in a remark, no matter how offensive or challenging, can never, by itself, constitute harassment." Reynolds emphasizes the seamless fabric of American liberty: "There is no conflict between the civil rights laws that this Office enforces and the civil liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment." "OCR has done a great service for liberty today," said Silverglate. "All too often, the proponents of campus restrictions on speech bizarrely have presented civil rights for women and minorities, on the one hand, and civil liberties, on the other, as somehow at odds with one another. OCR recognizes that there is no inconsistency between civil liberties and civil rights and that civil liberties are a necessary precondition for the continued survival of civil rights." The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education is a nonprofit educational foundation. FIRE unites civil rights and civil liberties leaders, scholars, journalists, and public intellectuals across the political and ideological spectrum on behalf of individual rights, freedom of expression, freedom of conscience, and due process on our nation's campuses. FIRE's ongoing efforts on behalf of freedom of expression and debate can be seen by visiting www.thefire.org. CONTACT: Greg Lukianoff, Director of Legal and Public Advocacy, FIRE: 215-717-3473; greg at thefire.org Harvey A. Silverglate, Vice President and Co-Director, FIRE: 617-661-9156; has at thefire.org PS. FIRE's work is made possible by the generosity of our individual supporters. Please make your tax deductible contribution here: http://www.thefire.org/support/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From ron.silliman at verizon.net Mon Aug 18 07:05:08 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 07:05:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog: 50,000 readers & growing Message-ID: <000001c36578$b2bd7ef0$1cfef343@Dell> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Reading Keats to Sleep - Gregg Biglieri as the Baryshnikov of words The BBC asks about flarf Oh, the books I've bought & been given Antiques Roadshow with Louis Zukofsky - A Useful Art More notes on the New Brutalism Jordan Davis' Million Poems Journal The Philly Sound - first impressions Jonathan Greene's pursuit of closure Revenant poetics? Christian Wiman & the George Romero School of Formalism Language poetry & emotion (a note on the New Brutalism) F.T. Prince, RIP The Philly Sound Ronald Johnson's The Shrubberies Reading Robert Grenier's "scrawl" Barbara Guest's Miniatures Is "Pathos" her greatest poem? Philip Guston: Poet's painter http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ 50,000 visitors since August 29 2002 From lshinn at sas.upenn.edu Mon Aug 18 09:31:22 2003 From: lshinn at sas.upenn.edu (Leslie Shinn) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:31:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Late news and rewrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good, as usual, Hal. How, though, did you and Lynda fare during the blackout? And the cat? >ABC News >Bush Says Electrical Grid Is Outdated > >ABC News - 35 minutes ago > >President Bush said Friday the power outages across the >Northeast and Midwest are "a wake-up call" to the antiquated >state of the nation's electrical grid and urged those whose >power has returned not to overload the still-limping system. > >------------------------ > >Rewrite: > >The Electrical Grid said Friday that the power outages across >the Northeast and Midwest (not to mention a couple Canadian >provinces) are "a wake-up call" to the antiquated state of >both nations' political systems and urged those whose power >and perspective have begun to return not to waste time in setting >about repairing those still-limping systems. > > >Hal Serving the tri-state area. > >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard at earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -- From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 10:11:37 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:11:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Late news and rewrite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: { Good, as usual, Hal. How, though, did you and Lynda fare during the { blackout? And the cat? Well enough, Leslie, as you'll see from the message below, which I've posted elsewhere. Hal ===== Not much to report on the blackout here. Our power went out at 4:11 pm on Thursday and returned just before 2 pm on Friday. The battery in my laptop held up for a while and then punked out. Lynda saved hers and got some work done Friday morning. Our excursion Thursday afternoon was a brief one. We started to take a walk somewhat after 5 pm, but Lynda, being heat averse, said, "Let's just get our food and go home." And that's what we did. We bought our Chinese at Baby Buddha, at the corner of Washington and Bethune Sts., nearly right across from Westbeth's main entrance, where quite a few people were hanging out. Looked like many of them were dancers from the Cunningham studio up on the 11th floor, unable to go home. Mostly we slept and read and dozed. Our portable CD players have FM tuners in them, so we got our news via WNYC, where, as the commentators repeatedly told us, work was being done by the light of flashlights. Their mikes were dead, so their voices went out via telephone lines to NPR in Washington, DC, which got their sounds on the air (don't ask about all the connections). Their reporters on the streets apparently called in their news from cellphones (while they worked) and then payphones? I'm not sure. But working in the dark and actually writing down news reports on paper, these commentators told us (one or twice) that they suddenly felt like they were doing "real journalism." Due to an outage last summer, we had plenty of water (our water went out while we were out getting food) and plenty of flashlights and batteries in the apartment. We even have a flashlight that, plugged into an outlet, turns on automatically when the power goes off. How nifty is that? It turned on at 4:11. This morning we've been reading in the NYT about the likely cause of the blackout--transmission lines going down somewhere near Cleveland, reminded once again that the US has perhaps the oldest infrastructure in the developed world. Nowhere in Europe do I recall seeing powerlines above ground, for example. (I'll think of the exceptions a few minutes after sending this off.) Someone on TV yesterday said that the US is disaster-driven (or words to that effect). This particular blackout, I fear, will be forgotten in 15 minutes. It should be taken as an omen. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From marcus at designerglass.com Mon Aug 18 10:51:32 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:51:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Joan and The Patrick In-Reply-To: <3F3DF893.22270.2FD074@localhost> References: <1060976859.3f3d38dbefc77@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3F40AFB4.30103.9389C@localhost> Hearing no objections, here's the next little bit of The Joaniad, in honor of Mr Magee's 100th My Angie Dickinson poem: Canto I 1. Joan's offices north of Dupont Are all that a planner could want: Convenient and bright And well within sight Of the places the powerful haunt. 2.But nice as they are, she's not there -- A glance at her schedule shows where The Patrick and she Must certainly be: A couple miles up in the air. 3.We'll focus on Joan in her seat By The Patrick. Our heroine's beat; They were trying to do Some work as they flew At thirty-some-odd thousand feet. 4.They'd flown out of DC last night To Indianapolis -- right Before they were fired And then not re-hired. They'd left town before it was light. 5.I'm starting in medias res As the ancients began; so you face The usual task Of having to ask: "What waves and what rocks and what place? 6."And who are these people, and why Are they winging their ways through the sky; Whether rainy or sunny That flying costs money What happened, did somebody die?" 7.Stop talking and maybe you'll see That you'll learn when you listen to me How The Patrick and Joan, With a kvetch and a moan, Had agreed to the flight for a fee. 8.They'd stayed up discussing all night Their Indianapolan plight -- They hadn't expected To be so rejected By the client who'd paid for their flight. 9.It came inauspiciously soon: They often had danced to his tune -- Each May they were fired, Each June then re-hired -- Until this particular June. 10.At first they'd mistaken his glee; They didn't know what it could be That gave him such joy 'Til he told them his boy Had gotten his college degree. 11.And then they'd remembered -- the lad Was scheduled to work for his dad As Planning VP When he got that degree -- But it shocked them to hear that he had. 12.They'd thought they'd had nothing to fear: The kid had failed, year after year, To get out of bed And study, instead Of conducting his carnal career. 13.It's not that they don't understand -- Nepotic old men are like sand -- But never, they thought, Would Junior get caught A degree, not a breast, in his hand. 14.They hopped the next jet out of town But flew with their spirits cast down They called him the worst Kinds of names as they cursed: "That adjective adjective noun!" 15.And that's why they took the next jet: The kid hadn't fallen down yet. They figured he'd fall And they hoped dad would call But they thought it a dubious bet. 16.But not the next jet going back; They stuck to their pre-scheduled track: With the shock they had had It wasn't too bad That they hadn't had time to unpack. 17.They sat there, Martinis in hands, Relaxed, as if no more demands Could ever be rude Enough to intrude On their flight 'til the bump as it lands. 18.From Indianapolis Joan And The Patrick, their spirits like stone, Flew northward together Through cold rainy weather Where snow fell and sun rarely shone. 19.They sat there, and sipped at their drinks, Competing to do the best Sphinx, A plight the more sad When you know each is mad To hear what the other one thinks. 20.They'd left 'til the last minute one Of the projects they'd barely begun -- The home office staff Doesn't think it's a laugh That the bosses think crises are fun. 21.But "fun" is a difficult notion: Like the change from the sea to the ocean, The smaller the stake The more it will make The matter seem ripe for emotion. 22.So "fun" isn't quite the mot juste; Though The Patrick and Joan get a boost When all goes as planned The price they command Is for fixing what planning produced. 23.Their friend, Richard Green, had resigned A bad, stressful job, and combined Resigning with moving To Boulder, thus proving Self-torture the most refined kind. 24.The Katz Brothers, Jacob and Joshua (And Richard, I must comment: "Gosh you are A fiend with no shame To unrhymably name Your kittens to show us how posh you are. 25.If you want in the poem, then wake up To the fact that a hard rhyme can shake up Light versists like me Who simply can't see Any way to rhyme Joshua or Jacob.) 26.The Katz Brothers (back to my thought) Are verklempt, not to say they're distraught: The city of Boulder They've heard is much colder And mice aren't as easily caught. 27.While Richard was soothing his pets His friends sorted assets from debts The whole then was blown On The Patrick and Joan For a party he never forgets. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 15:03:00 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:03:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tattoo Highway #7 Message-ID: <3F4122E3.B9A922CA@earthlink.net> TH/7: Mass Transit, is online. http://www.tattoohighway.org/ From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 15:11:00 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:11:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: George Oppen, "Image of the Engine" Message-ID: Image of the Engine 1 Likely as not a ruined head gasket Spitting at every power stroke, if not a crank shaft Bearing knocking at the roots of the thing like a pile-driver: A machine involved with itself, a concentrated Hot lump of a machine Geared in the loose mechanics of the world with the valves jumping And the heavy frenzy of the pistons. When the thing stops, Is stopped, with the last slow cough In the manifold, the flywheel blundering Against compression, stopping, finally Stopped, compression leaking From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 18 16:32:35 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:32:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] On the Waterfront Message-ID: While Lynda and I were off on our two-week Maine stay (groans noted), the Greenwich Village portion of the Hudson River Park was opened fully to one and all (open daily from dawn till 1 am). Previously, there'd been only the running/ biking/walking lanes just west of West St., along with, in our neighborhood, two vest-pocket parks areas, one at the foot of W. 11th St. and the other (I think) at the foot of Perry St. or maybe Charles St.--areas with metal chairs and tables set beneath the youngish trees, where we could stare through Cyclone fencing at the Hudson and at the park in progress, as it was for the last two or three years. Now, there's a walkway with benches right by the river, and the piers 45 and 46 have been reconstructed with grassy areas, shade canopies, tables, chairs, etc. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/18/nyregion/18WATE.html [Text appended below, after sig.] for more images, etc. click on http://www.fohrp.org/ Lynda and I, on our exercise walk nowadays, cross West St. to the park via the crosswalk at W. 11th St., and then go south along the Hudson, out to the end of Pier 46, a relatively short one, and back, and then down to Pier 45 (which used to be called the Christopher St. pier). Pier 45 juts so far out into the river that it seems we halfway to New Jersey. From its end, we can see all the way down to the Narrows and the Verrazano Bridge. Back at river's edge we continue south, passing on our left the new fountain at the foot of Christopher St., on our way to Pier 40 (the big one with the parking lot on top at the foot of W. Houston St.), which we loop around before turning back north. Heading toward home, we skip the piers usually (though we might start folding them into future walks) and cool down in the little park across from W. 11th St. For our morning pleasure, I carry small Thermoses of piping hot coffee, along with various sections from the morning's NYT, in my backpack. And so we sit at a table in our little square park just off the river, reading the paper, sipping coffee, and watching the River-that-Flows-Two- Ways, as the Indians once called it--not to mention all the walkers (incl. dogwalkers), strollers, striders, joggers, lopers, runners, skaters (love that sway they carry with them), and all the stroller- pushers too. Lynda and I count ourselves among the walkers. To cross West St. on our way home, we must first risk crossing the bike-path with its painted crosswalk for pedestrians, and the painted message to bikers "Yield to Pedestrians," which, of course, none of them ever do. When I was a kid and my family lived east of here, over on 7th Avenue, we'd sometimes come over to this part of the city to see friends or relatives off to Sweden on one of the big ocean-going streamships that used to own these waters. We'd explore the ship and have little send-off parties in the travelers' cabins, and clamber down the gangway at the very last minute, just before the whistle blew its final whistle before the tugboats nudged it away from the dock. But that's another story. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ===== August 18, 2003 Renovation Efforts Reclaim the City's Forbidden Shoreline By COREY KILGANNON One morning last week, Zoe Klein, a 24-year-old circus performer from Brooklyn, stood practicing her act, which involved swinging a pair of tethered balls, and stared out to the Hudson River. "Growing up in New York, I always felt boxed in," she said. "I always knew we were surrounded by water, but it always felt dirty or inaccessible." Actually it was not too long ago that the stretch of waterfront where she was standing was dirty and inaccessible. But it has been recently reclaimed as part of the Hudson River Park project, a lengthy effort to upgrade the West Side riverfront and install miles of landscaped public space and freshly paved pathways for runners, bikers and skaters. Although traffic was heavy on the nearby West Side Highway, Ms. Klein said she considered the spot on the western fringe of Greenwich Village an oasis of serenity. "I come here all the time, to counteract the stress of living in the city," she said. Things are changing along New York's waterways and waterfront, and Ms. Klein is not the only one noticing. City residents are now zealously embracing the waterfront. Yoga groups convene on a Hudson River promenade just south of West 72nd Street on what was once a fallow railyard. Fishermen are casting for schools of striped bass off the Battery. And the Downtown Boathouse offers free kayaking programs. "New York is a water city ? we're the Venice of the East Coast ? but for a good part of the 1900's, the city turned its back on the waterfront," said John Waldman, the senior scientist with the Hudson River Foundation. "Now we're turning around and discovering it." Cleaner waters have encouraged many revitalization projects along the city's 578 miles of shoreline. Despite economic hard times, waterfront development projects are proliferating from Staten Island to the Bronx. "The development of the waterfront is one of the Bloomberg administration's most critical economic and neighborhood priorities," said Daniel L. Doctoroff, the deputy mayor for economic development and rebuilding. "With maritime industry uses gone or fading, we can reclaim parts of the shoreline. We have a once-in-a-century opportunity to reclaim New York City's waterfront, so we're seeing a lot of things beginning to come together." In Manhattan, progress is being made on the $400 million Hudson River Park park project to reclaim five miles of ramshackle waterfront from Battery Park City to 59th Street. There are also plans to revitalize the Harlem Piers, renovate Fulton Street and create a "Champs-?lys?es"-style promenade on West Street. In Queens, the Queens West project has two residential towers up and another planned, and there are proposals to create new access to Jamaica Bay and the Flushing River waterfront. The city hopes to create a waterfront Olympic Village for 2012 in Long Island City. In Brooklyn, plans to develop 1.3 miles around the Manhattan and Brooklyn Bridges into commercial and recreation space are on tap, as is a revitalization project for a 1.6-mile stretch of industrial waterfront in Greenpoint and Williamsburg. In the Bronx, there are plans to redevelop the waterfront near Yankee Stadium and the Bronx River. In Staten Island, city officials hope to redevelop the former Homeport Navy site, and a new pier at South Beach is almost complete. Four of New York City's five boroughs are part of an urban archipelago. This was one of the big draws for the Dutch, who built wharves in southern Manhattan in the 1600's. As commercialism began to grow, waterfront structures began blocking views and access. And the less-than-savory sailors and dock hands made the waterfront synonymous with mob activity, prostitution and crime. So New Yorkers avoided the water, wrote Luc Sante in "Low Life," his book on New York's underbelly. Mr. Sante noted that Fifth Avenue became the most desirable residential address because it was farthest away from the Hudson and the East River. Early in the 20th century, highways were built blocking the shoreline, which was thick with freighters and ocean liners. The fishing industry declined as the waters became more polluted. Foul water also meant the end of Whitehall rowboats off the Battery and grand boathouses and swim clubs with staircases descending into the water. "For generations, the river was considered an unpleasant place to go," said the city's parks commissioner, Adrian Benepe. "It was where you put slaughterhouses and where poor kids went to swim." By midcentury, manufacturing began to decline and many piers became inactive. Still, the city's nautical life was reduced to tiny pockets, like Broad Channel and City Island. But the federal 1972 Clean Water Act and better sewage treatment practices improved water quality. Starting in the 1980's, industrial waterfront stretches began to be redeveloped into residential or recreational areas, including Battery Park City and Chelsea Piers. The once dying ferry industry has recently been revived. Developers and city officials continue to see new opportunity in the old wharfs and dilapidated shoreline buildings. So New York is finally shaking off a legacy of the padlocked waterfront, and undergoing a "mindset change," said Raymond Gastil, author of "Beyond the Edge: New York's New Waterfront" (Princeton Architectural Press, 2002). "The idea that you can go kayaking off a pier in downtown Manhattan is a pretty bold expectation," he said, "but one that is being realized." Carter Craft, program director of the Metropolitan Waterfront Alliance, a division of the Municipal Art Society that advocates for more public access to the shoreline and more water transit, said that the "change in New Yorkers' consciousness" certainly helps economic revitalization. But he said that waterfront parks should do more than just lead people to the water. "There are still relatively few ways for Manhattan Islanders to actually interact with the water," he said. "The current park designs are not as boater-friendly as they should be. The waterfront should not be an edge, but rather a gateway." Even as a work in progress, the transformation of the waterfront is something the city is pretty proud of. The Parks Department is planning an opening ceremony later this month for an interim bike path around the perimeter of Manhattan. "Opening the waterfront for recreational use in the 21st Century is as important at the creation of Central Park, Prospect Park and Riverside Park in the 19th Century," said Mr. Benepe of the Parks Department. Last week, Jose Gerald, 65, a retired merchant seaman from Carroll Gardens, was fishing off the Valentino Pier in Red Hook Mr. Gerald, who moved here from Puerto Rico, has been fishing at this spot for 45 years, looking for blackfish, blues, porgies and striped bass. "Forty years ago, the water was filthy," he said. "Now it's beautiful. Before nobody wanted to eat the fish. Now everybody wants to eat the fish. Now you even see some kids swimming over here some times. I don't know the name, but the fishing ducks are back." The same day, a man sat on the waterfront in upper Manhattan with no fishing pole, but rather a bottle of beer in his hand. The man, a pay phone repairman named Robert K. Morton, sat at a table set outside at the Tubby Hook Cafe at Dyckman Street and the Hudson River. The cafe offers spectacular views of the river, of the George Washington Bridge and the Palisade cliffs. "When you sit out here, you don't think you're in Washington Heights," Mr. Morton said, squeezing a lime into his beer. "I work for the phone company and I get to go all over. It doesn't get any better than this." --NYT From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 18 22:15:26 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:15:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. James Whitehead Message-ID: <163.2495f683.2c72e23e@aol.com> In a message dated 8/17/03 5:06:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: > http://www.nwanews.com/adg/story_arkansas.php?storyid=39098 A very nice eulogy as obituary. Better to be a good man than be famous. Fame does nothing for the dead man but one life's goodness sustains so many of the living. Finnegan From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Mon Aug 18 22:21:59 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:21:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] R.I.P. James Whitehead Message-ID: <194.1d71d8e0.2c72e3c7@cs.com> In a message dated 8/18/2003 9:15:59 PM Central Daylight Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: > >http://www.nwanews.com/adg/story_arkansas.php?storyid=39098 > > A very nice eulogy as obituary. Better to be a good man > than be famous. Fame does nothing for the dead man > but one life's goodness sustains so many of the living. > Finnegan > ________________ Jim passed up several chances to be famous; he never could finish the second novel. But he was a good man, and he certainly taught the ropes to a lot of good writers. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Cadaly at aol.com Tue Aug 19 15:37:11 2003 From: Cadaly at aol.com (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:37:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] LA Reading: Writers & Teachers, Michael Datcher + 3 Message-ID: <1da.f89353c.2c73d667@aol.com> Monthly Writers & Teachers Series Michael Datcher (see http://www.michaeldatcher.com), author of RAISING FENCES as well as Editor of two anthologies and author of a book of poems, reads with and introduces three students at 7:30 Tuesday, August 19 Barnes & Noble Westwood in the Westside Pavilion at Westwood + Pico 10850 Pico LA Monthly Writers & Teachers Series Michael Datcher (see http://www.michaeldatcher.com), author of RAISING FENCES as well as Editor of two anthologies and author of a book of poems, reads with and introduces three students at 7:30 Tuesday, August 19 Barnes & Noble Westwood in the Westside Pavilion at Westwood + Pico 10850 Pico LA If you are a published local teacher of fiction, playwrighting, screenwriting, or nonfiction in an accredited writing program, and would like to read, please e-mail me! Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Tue Aug 19 18:15:43 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:15:43 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Kerouac bobblehead update Message-ID: <3F42A18F.B7620683@earthlink.net> Maybe some of you know this by now, but the JK bobblehead can be ordered at www.lowellspinners.com for one coin of the realm ($20). It was so nice to get that info handwritten on my very own letter in its s.a.s.e. I'm going to place mine face to face with my Dubya action doll and see what happens. (Sometimes I pretend to be asleep, then open my eyes real quick to catch something happening.) - Jim From tadrichards at prodigy.net Tue Aug 19 18:34:43 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:34:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Kerouac bobblehead update References: <3F42A18F.B7620683@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004101c366a2$15c3bb70$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:15 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Kerouac bobblehead update > Maybe some of you know this by now, but the JK bobblehead can be ordered > at www.lowellspinners.com for one coin of the realm ($20). It was so > nice to get that info handwritten on my very own letter in its s.a.s.e. > > I'm going to place mine face to face with my Dubya action doll and see > what happens. (Sometimes I pretend to be asleep, then open my eyes real > quick to catch something happening.) > > - Jim > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards at prodigy.net Tue Aug 19 18:35:35 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:35:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Kerouac bobblehead update References: <3F42A18F.B7620683@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004701c366a2$354c8c10$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Politically it ought to be a good match, since Kerouac was probably to the right of Dubya. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: "new-poetry" Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:15 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Jack Kerouac bobblehead update > Maybe some of you know this by now, but the JK bobblehead can be ordered > at www.lowellspinners.com for one coin of the realm ($20). It was so > nice to get that info handwritten on my very own letter in its s.a.s.e. > > I'm going to place mine face to face with my Dubya action doll and see > what happens. (Sometimes I pretend to be asleep, then open my eyes real > quick to catch something happening.) > > - Jim > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com Tue Aug 19 18:50:06 2003 From: FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com (FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:50:06 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] new poetry Blog................................................(?) Message-ID: <3094C791.0018A8A7.20CA8F88@aol.com> for THE PHILLY SOUND: ?New Writing click here: ?http://phillysound.blogspot.com/ From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Aug 20 11:34:30 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:34:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Piero Heliczer, "victorian era" Message-ID: victorian era between two points small birds fly plummet faster than my bicycle a sparrow hit the window and lay in the road a soft brown sex for some reason i will always remember that thicket because we were higher and could see through the leaves which were just forming like restrained cockades the white curves of her thighs april was the green parole of the trees pilot the body reflects in grey glass of tombs throws its voice small hissing words baroque bells of molten metal dropped into the sea i am trying to remember my dream as she sleeps and steers my arm among the margheritas of her heart prayed at ruins which a misplaced faith my commands see the birds darkly through a canopy of water the blue coat of dream woman the expression of her eyes taking the advice to choose the suitor whose stick sprung flowers breasts sprout upon her body like castles of wet sand the young girls hair of trees about to bud thrown against the sky her small and hogarth breasts rain is small giving even a smell of dust at such an early time the trees bent by the sea wind give the road an illusion of balance i entered into my dolls house of fog such lovely chimneys the drivers of cars were jealous of me thinking i looked like a god of my helmet of wind blown hair and halo of sweat --Piero Heliczer fr. *the soap opera*, 1969 in *a purchase in the white botanica: the collected poetry of piero heliczer* [New York: Granary Books, 2001] Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com Wed Aug 20 17:11:28 2003 From: DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com (DICK at pkmfgvm4.vnet.ibm.com) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 03 17:11:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Kerouac's right Message-ID: <200308202110.h7KLAtBp207798@northrelay01.pok.ibm.com> >> >>Politically it ought to be a good match, since Kerouac was probably to the >>right of Dubya. >> Another reason to ignore him, if one is needed. Richard From halvard at earthlink.net Thu Aug 21 17:36:35 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:36:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] FW: AP on CK Message-ID: <001401c3682c$4bd4e8c0$46151f43@computer> One-time angry young poet still ticked Politics always 'in your mind,' says C.K. Williams PARIS, France (AP) --In a way, poet C.K. Williams has mellowed with age. He is now 66, and has two grandsons, a country house in Normandy, a Pulitzer Prize and a new book on the way. But for this angry young poet of the 1960s, there's still more than enough to rage about -- poverty, racism and the cycle of barbarism he sees in the Sept. 11 attacks and fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. The violence and cruelty of war -- past and present -- form the backdrop for some of the most powerful work Williams has done since his book, "Repair," won the Pulitzer for poetry in 2000. "These days I find it very hard to write about anything else," says Williams, bending his lanky frame over a noisette -- espresso with a drop of milk -- at a Paris tea room. "The political situation is so fraught and so depressing, that when one sits down to write, that's what's in your mind." Williams, an outspoken opponent of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, shies from explicit criticism of the Bush administration in his poetry, cautious of any hint of what he calls "propaganda" in his art. But the new political work -- to be included in "The Singing," which Farrar, Straus and Giroux will release in November -- is loud and clear in its denunciation of the brutality of war. The fearlessness of these poems will be familiar to readers of Williams, whose work has long stood out for its unswerving examination of human suffering, from the savagery of the Holocaust to the everyday injustices of modern life. In "Fear," published on The New York Times op-ed page, Williams ruminates on "war, threats of war, war without end." In a piece titled simply "War," he details the cruelties of combat, from torture among battling Mayans to modern-day bomber pilots. Getting mail His clearest swipe at the Bush administration comes in "The Hearth," written on the eve of the Iraq war and published in The New Yorker magazine: "I stood in the wind in the raw cold/ wondering how those with power over us/ can effect such things, and by what/ cynical reasoning pardon themselves." Williams said "The Hearth" inspired a string of supportive e-mails and letters from readers, rejuvenating his belief in the power of poetry to express what he calls "the common soul." "It seemed to say something that a lot of people were feeling," he said of the poem. "It was actually quite wonderful to realize that people did hear you that way. Usually, a poem goes out into the world and that's the end of it." Anger and despair at the human condition are nothing new for Williams, who in the oft- quoted poem "It is This Way With Men" declared: "They are pounded into the earth/ like nails; move an inch/ they are driven down again." The poem is from his first book, "Lies," published in 1969. In the years since, Williams has opened up the tight, clipped forms of his earlier work with longer, narrativelike lines that have given his poetry a more casual, less forbidding feel, but without flinching from bitter realities. Many commentators pointed toward 1999's "Repair" as a sign that he had grown more hopeful. In the book's final poem, "Invisible Mending," he compared the work of three women in a tailor shop to the "forgiveness and repair" of damaged souls. Williams, however, is quick to deny any mellowing. To prove his point, he notes angry pieces in "Repair" about violence -- including one about torturers who drive nails into the heads of their victims -- and the hopelessness of racism. "My method has changed and my vision has changed, but I think basically my concerns are the same," he said. "I still am concerned with suffering and exultation, and the conflict between the two." 'I started writing one day' Those concerns stay with him when he moves into prose and nonfiction. In a personal memoir, "Misgivings," published in 2000, he probes -- lovingly, but unsparingly -- the dynamics of his complex, often troubled relationship with his late parents. Williams was born in Newark, New Jersey, in 1936, and was educated at the University of Pennsylvania. His father was a salesman who struggled through the Depression but later became extremely successful; his mother was a homemaker. He was not a born poet: He detested English classes in school and was repelled by literature's "auras of mustiness and reverence." Still, he wrote his first poem at age 19 -- and found a new world that fascinated him. "I started writing one day, for no real reason ... but once I did, I knew ... that the realities poetry offered me differed in essential and splendid ways from those of every day," he once wrote in an essay, "Beginnings." In the early 1960s, Williams embarked on an intense and solitary apprenticeship as a poet, reading everything in sight and finding the poets who would have lasting influences on his work: French poet Charles Baudelaire, Irish poet William Butler Yeats and German poet Rainer Maria Rilke. His poetic breakthrough came in the mid-'60s with "A Day for Anne Frank," the first poem with which Williams says he was truly satisfied. It appeared in "Lies." His Pulitzer-winning work, "Repair," was a clear departure from what had been his signature innovation since his third book in 1977: the sentence-length poetic line that often runs beyond the width of the page. The use of shorter lines in "Repair" is expanded in "The Singing," where Williams feels free to modulate line-length and stanzas to fit the material or generate new ways of looking at his subjects. "I had that commitment to the long line -- it was my formal necessity for a long time," he said. "Now, I gave up that necessity and found other necessities. Sometimes I'll use free verse, sometimes I'll use measure in one way or another." With the political poems in "The Singing" are more personal examinations: Hearing a young man singing an improvised rap on the street turns into a statement on race relations; in "Lessons" and "Oh," Williams considers the loss of friends, teachers or strangers whom we allow to pass from our lives. For all the attention to the darker recesses of humanity in his writing, Williams -- who teaches creative writing at Princeton University and lives half the year in France -- is hopeful about one area: the work of young poets in the United States, particularly compared to their French counterparts, who he said seemed to be in "a bit of a hibernation period." "There don't seem to be many poems being written (in France) that are essential," he said. "While in America they're all over the place -- just a lot of good poets." From FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com Fri Aug 22 13:56:03 2003 From: FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com (FINDINGTHEWORD at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:56:03 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Corina Copp's SOMETIMES INSPIRED BY MARGUERITE / POETRY OF ROBERT HEAD / MAIL FROM JOSEPH MASSEY and more Message-ID: <62EB97C9.613813B6.20CA8F88@aol.com> on THE PHILLY SOUND: ?New Poetry http://phillysound.blogspot.com/ From Cadaly at aol.com Fri Aug 22 16:23:37 2003 From: Cadaly at aol.com (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:23:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] PEN West Emerging Voices Fellows at Portrait of a Bookstore, 7 pm, August 23 Message-ID: <152.23214d4b.2c77d5c9@aol.com> PEN West Emerging Voices Fellows at Portrait of a Bookstore, 7 pm, August 23, 2003 The "venue of the contemporary poets," Portrait of a Bookstore, presents PEN West Emerging Voices fellows on two consecutive weekends, coinciding with alt.August and Sunset Junction alt. Poetry & Music Beginning at 7 pm, Ibarionex R. Perello, Colleen Nakamoto, and Nora Pierce will be reading in the charming, intimate, tree-shaded brick patio of independent bookstore Portrait of a Bookstore (behind Aroma Caf?) 4360 Tujunga Avenue Studio City in an event curated by Catherine Daly, author of DaDaDa (Salt Publishing) and the forthcoming Locket (Tupelo Press). http://www.catherinedaly.info For more information about the store, call 818-769-3853. if you haven't been there yet, here's a link: http://news.bookweb.org/booksense/1286.html there's parking in the back, and usually street parking either on Tujunga or around the corner in this well-lit area where the only crime has been Robert Blake shooting his wife! Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Fri Aug 22 16:53:38 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:53:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?Windows-1252?Q?Poems_by_others:_C=E9sar_Vallejo=2C_=5Buntitled=5D?= Message-ID: The moment the tennis player magisterially serves his bullet, a totally animal innocence comes over him; the moment the philosopher surprises a new truth he's a complete beast. Anatole France affirmed that the religious sentiment is the function of a special organ in the human body until now ignored, and one could say too, then, that the exact moment such an organ fully functions the believer is so full of malice one could almost call him a vegetable. O my soul! O my thought! O Marx! O Feuerbach! --C?sar Vallejo fr. *Poemas Humanos* tr. Clayton Eshleman [New York: Grove Press, 1968] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From Cadaly at aol.com Fri Aug 22 16:56:16 2003 From: Cadaly at aol.com (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:56:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] ::8.26::LA::*Unofficial* Book Launch::Catherine Daly, DaDaDa:: Message-ID: <46.3cdf30ff.2c77dd70@aol.com> Catherine Daly reading from and signing her first book, DaDaDa Salt Publishing, 2003 (available in the UK now, at this reading, & elsewhere *soon*) 7:30 pm, Tuesday, August 26 Barnes & Noble Westwood 10850 West Pico Blvd. West Los Angeles, CA 90064 (corner of Westwood & Pico in the Westside Pavilion Mall) *free brownies* I am focusing this first reading where I have something to sell on the books related to the poems in DaDaDa (as well as that book), as the reading's in a bookstore. more info: http://www.saltpublishing.com/books/smp/1876857951.htm http://www.catherinedaly.info -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier at localnet.com Sun Aug 24 12:55:27 2003 From: hruggier at localnet.com (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:55:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] SMALL PRESS REVIEW EMAIL References: <3F42A18F.B7620683@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3F48EDFE.59DA76A6@localnet.com> Does someone have the email address for Len Fulton at Small Press Review? Apppreciate it. H. Ruggieri who still has a printing press for sale > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 24 15:41:24 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:41:24 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Langpo Daily Message-ID: On another list we've been looking at today's Poetry Daily offering. First, though, take a glance at the blurb that accompanies it, and see if you can predict much about the poem: "These poems are unconventional, deep, independent, un-American, all-American, hip, tragic, observant, skitterish, critical, political, crushed, brushed, funny. It is the range of motion and emotion in them that makes them matter." (Fanny Howe) OK, ready for the poem? Here goes: __________________________________________ Sum Our Only Blue Fingerflames lake-long a far boil across this our only blue redbed rivering above (becoming see) below : soil's torn fill however-entered seeds nosepoints righted prayer- heads huddle- bottomed for when for water for will sun sleep ? what mighty littles? battled from seedcoat's open necks (temporary oubliettes) to bud to flower to sum : endfruit : each : a truth of each multiplicative inverses love crosses leaping centers disinterest free to from care but immediate claim none (but (mother for) each is : other's mother for what is (mother ? merely perfect) endfruit is ; is not flower is ; is not bud is ; is not seed is ; is not end mother? : end moves in these: reciprocal : equations a calling she calls comes the absolute? a floating erase : as a wave : each is ; is not its last (end and) so : end ; end- flower we are and one : sum Robyn Ewing Chemical Wedding Colorado Prize for Poetry Center for Literary Publishing ________________________________________________________ ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 24 16:39:46 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 16:39:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Langpo Daily References: Message-ID: <00d801c36a7f$dc0f7fe0$d827fea9@j1c1k6> On another list we've been looking at today's Poetry Daily offering. First, though, take a glance at the blurb that accompanies it, and see if you can predict much about the poem: "These poems are unconventional, deep, independent, un-American, all-American, hip, tragic, observant, skitterish, critical, political, crushed, brushed, funny. It is the range of motion and emotion in them that makes them matter." (Fanny Howe) I guessed it would not be an Iowa school poem.I thought it'd have some overt political vapidity but it didn't. I guessed free verse, and varying margins, both left and right. And odd punctuation. I guessed jump-cuts. And jumping around in varied subject matter. A landscape. I couldn't follow it but think I might be able to if I come back to it enough. On the other hand, it may be self-indulgent automatic writing--but definitely out of a mind with more in it than 95% of New Yorker poets have in their minds. Second time through I begin getting parts. Murkily. Something about combinations like "Becoming" and two words later "below" seems meaningful to me but not yet verbalizable. This poem is enough to make me want to read other poems by its author. __________________________________________ Sum Our Only Blue Fingerflames lake-long a far boil across this our only blue redbed rivering above (becoming see) below : soil's torn fill however-entered seeds nosepoints righted prayer- heads huddle- bottomed for when for water for will sun sleep ? what mighty littles< battled from seedcoat's open necks (temporary oubliettes) to bud to flower to sum : endfruit : each : a truth of each multiplicative inverses love crosses leaping centers disinterest free to from care but immediate claim none (but (mother for) each is : other's mother for what is (mother ? merely perfect) endfruit is ; is not flower is ; is not bud is ; is not seed is ; is not end mother? : end moves in these: reciprocal : equations a calling she calls comes the absolute< a floating erase : as a wave : each is ; is not its last (end and) so : end ; end- flower we are and one : sum Robyn Ewing Chemical Wedding Colorado Prize for Poetry Center for Literary Publishing ________________________________________________________ ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From halvard at earthlink.net Sun Aug 24 16:53:02 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 16:53:02 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] =?Windows-1252?Q?Poems_by_others:_Tristan_Corbi=E8re=2C_=22A_Little_Death?= =?Windows-1252?Q?_to_Laugh=22?= Message-ID: A Little Death to Laugh Go quick, light comber of comets! Wind-blown grasses be your hair; From wjbat at conncoll.edu Sun Aug 24 19:19:37 2003 From: wjbat at conncoll.edu (Wendy Battin) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 19:19:37 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Langpo Daily In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6DE2F794-D689-11D7-88C1-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> This poem must be the virus-of-the-day; I just answered a similar post an yet another list. It doesn't seem particularly langpo. It's just another FoJ (Friend of Jorie)--nothing to get all het up about. A little sunset on the lake, seedlings, meditation on process & identity. The usual. Little whisper of Roethke for good measure. It has some nice moments. Wendy Wendy Battin wjbat at conncoll.edu On Sunday, August 24, 2003, at 03:41 PM, David Graham wrote: > On another list we've been looking at today's Poetry Daily offering. > > First, though, take a glance at the blurb that accompanies it, and see > if > you can predict much about the poem: > > "These poems are unconventional, deep, independent, un-American, > all-American, hip, tragic, observant, skitterish, critical, political, > crushed, brushed, funny. It is the range of motion and emotion in > them that > makes them matter." (Fanny Howe) > > OK, ready for the poem? Here goes: > > __________________________________________ > Sum Our Only Blue > > > Fingerflames > lake-long > a far boil across this > our only blue > redbed rivering > above (becoming > see) below : soil's > torn fill > however-entered > seeds nosepoints > righted prayer- > heads huddle- > bottomed > for when > for water > for will > sun sleep ? what > mighty littles? > battled from > seedcoat's open > necks (temporary > oubliettes) to > bud to flower to > sum : endfruit : > each : a truth > of each multiplicative > inverses love > crosses leaping > centers disinterest > free to from > care but immediate > claim none (but > (mother for) each > is : other's > mother for what > is (mother ? merely > perfect) endfruit is ; > is not flower is ; is > not bud is ; is > not seed is ; is not > end mother? : end > moves in these: > reciprocal : equations > a calling she calls > comes the absolute? > a floating erase : as > a wave : each is ; is > not its last (end > and) so : end ; end- > flower we are > and one : sum > > > Robyn Ewing > Chemical Wedding > Colorado Prize for Poetry > Center for Literary Publishing > ________________________________________________________ > > From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 24 20:33:07 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:33:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Langpo Daily References: <6DE2F794-D689-11D7-88C1-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> Message-ID: <001201c36aa0$7617f8e0$1779fea9@j1c1k6> This poem must be the virus-of-the-day; I just answered a similar post an yet another list. It doesn't seem particularly langpo. It's just another FoJ (Friend of Jorie)--nothing to get all het up about. A little sunset on the lake, seedlings, meditation on process & identity. The usual. Little whisper of Roethke for good measure. It has some nice moments. Wendy **Yeah, I thought there was some Roethke in it, too, but wasn't sure enough to say so. The female Graham's name crossed my mind, too. --Bob G. From ron.silliman at verizon.net Mon Aug 25 07:14:05 2003 From: ron.silliman at verizon.net (Ron) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 07:14:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Silliman's Blog Message-ID: <000001c36afa$03bc82c0$26fef343@Dell> http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ The decay of posthumous literary forms & the importance of book design Essential titles: Kathy Acker & Barrett Watten Essential titles: Louis Zukofsky & Robert Grenier Essential titles: Jack Spicer, Robert Creeley & Williams' Spring & All Essential titles: Williams' The Desert Music & the Allen anthology Dirty Pretty Things A report on The Philly Sound from CA Conrad Reading Keats to Sleep - Gregg Biglieri as the Baryshnikov of words The BBC asks about flarf Oh, the books I've bought & been given Antiques Roadshow with Louis Zukofsky - A Useful Art More notes on the New Brutalism Jordan Davis' Million Poems Journal The Philly Sound - first impressions Jonathan Greene's pursuit of closure http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ From halvard at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 10:20:44 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:20:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RIP: Haroldo de Campos (1929-2003) Message-ID: Check out this: http://www.uol.com.br/haroldodecampos/ Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard August 25, 2003 Haroldo de Campos, 73, Form-Bending Poet, Dies By SIMON ROMERO Haroldo de Campos, who transformed words into whimsical diagrams and subtle critiques of formal poetry as a founder of the 1950's Concrete poetry movement in Brazil, died Aug. 16 in S?o Paulo. He was 73. The cause was complications of diabetes, the newspaper O Globo reported. Mr. de Campos was perhaps the best known of the Brazilian Concrete poets, who often arranged the letters of the words in their poems in shapes that would lend them multiple meanings. The Concretists arrived on the international literary scene as Brazil, imbued with the modernism that also resulted in the completion of the planned capital Bras?lia in 1960, flirted with different artistic forms. With his brother, Augusto, and with D?cio Pignatari, Mr. de Campos formed a group that sought to create a new form of expression by removing stereotypical traces of Brazilian culture from their work. One result was a cosmopolitan body of writing that reflected the pragmatic, gritty industrialism of S?o Paulo and that drew visual inspiration from European artists like Mondrian and Brancusi. The Cuban writer Severo Sarduy called Mr. de Campos the "Pound-like patriarch" of the Concrete poets, in reference to the poet Ezra Pound. Haroldo Eurico Browne de Campos was born to a middle-class family in S?o Paulo in 1929 and graduated from the University of S?o Paulo with a law degree. He shunned the legal profession, however, preferring to risk his hand at literary experimentation. A prolific essayist, translator and polyglot, Mr. de Campos translated works into Portuguese from Chinese, German, Spanish, Greek, Hebrew, English, Italian, Japanese, Russian, Latin and Proven?al. In doing so, he often adopted a freewheeling practice called transcreation, which allowed him to intersperse translations with his own ideas. Mr. de Campos's translations sometimes took the form of literary collaborations, as in "Transblanco," a 1986 work in which he drew on correspondence and discussions with the Mexican poet Octavio Paz to produce a Brazilian version of Paz's poetry. The Mexican government awarded Mr. de Campos the Octavio Paz Prize in 1999. Mr. de Campos had widespread influence on Brazilian popular music, with composers like Caetano Veloso basing songs on his poems. Mr. de Campos is survived by his wife, Carmen, and a son, Ivan. From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 25 10:39:27 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:39:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Contemporary American Poetry: Behind the Scenes Message-ID: <4e.20d429bb.2c7b799f@aol.com> http://www.ablongman.com/catalog/academic/product/0,4096,0321095782,00.html Contemporary American Poetry: Behind the Scenes Ryan G. Van Cleave, University of Wisconsin, Green Bay ISBN: 0-321-09578-2 Publisher: Longman Copyright: 2003 Format: Paper; 400 pp Published: 10/07/2002 Status: Instock US: $29.20 You Save: $2.92 (10% off) Our Price: $26.28 Contemporary American Poetry is an anthology featuring generous poetry selections from well-known and respected writers, chosen and commented upon by the writers themselves. In straightforward, conversational language, each poet provides original commentary that presents the backstory of the poems they've selected and offers an extended explanation into the aesthetic and artistic choices they made in their creation. Along with advice, instruction, and exercises on the craft of writing, these master poets provide insight and motivation suitable for aspiring and experienced poets, creative writing teachers, and those readers who endeavor to place poetry in their lives. The result, a distinctive collection of poems, accompanying commentaries, and exercises that stimulate the imagination, is an unmatched resource for classrooms or the individual learner. From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Mon Aug 25 13:47:20 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:47:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA Message-ID: The week before last I spent three days in D. C. working on a literary panel at the NEA. It was the first time I'd ever served on such a panel. One of the other 8 panel members had been serving on NEA panels since 1978. I was wondering how many others on this list had ever served on an NEA literary panel of any kind. I'm curious to see how rare or widespread the experience is. Generally considering myself something of a literary outsider, and never having been on the receiving end of any Endowment money, I found it rather odd for once to be helping decide what literary enterprises were funded. Paul Lake --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 15:24:15 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:24:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA References: Message-ID: <3F4A625F.89E13D2@earthlink.net> I've been through "the experience" at the state arts commission level (which is NEA money anyway) and at the city arts commission level. Naturally, we can't mention names or specifics, so I'm wondering what aspects of "the experience" you have in mind. - Jim Paul Lake wrote: > > The week before last I spent three days in D. C. working on a literary panel > at the NEA. It was the first time I'd ever served on such a panel. One of > the other 8 panel members had been serving on NEA panels since 1978. I was > wondering how many others on this list had ever served on an NEA literary > panel of any kind. I'm curious to see how rare or widespread the experience > is. Generally considering myself something of a literary outsider, and never > having been on the receiving end of any Endowment money, I found it rather > odd for once to be helping decide what literary enterprises were funded. > > Paul Lake > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 25 17:07:03 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:07:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] RATTAPALLAX presents a reading for AIDS in Africa Message-ID: <14a.232cc894.2c7bd477@aol.com> RATTAPALLAX presents a reading for AIDS in Africa on Tuesday September 2, 2003 5-10 PM Bowery Poetry Club between Houston & Bleecker 212.614.0505, http://bowerypoetry.com Yusef Komunyaaka, Sapphire, Glyn Maxwell, Grace Schulman, Vijay Seshadri, Timothy Liu, Meena Alexander, Willie Perdomo, Cecilia Vicu?a, Bob Holman, Marie Ponsot, Tory Dent, Minnie Bruce Pratt, Nicole Blackman, Keith Roach, Karen Swenson, Regie Cabico, Edwin Torres, F.D Reeve, Todd Colby, William Pitt Root, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Anselm Berrigan, Jackie Sheeler, Bonnie Rose Marcus, Prageeta Sharma, Yerra Sugarman, Nathalie Handal, Daniel Nester, Emanuel Xavier, Elaine Schwager, Fl?via Rocha, Ron Price, Jeet Thayil, Kahlil Almustafa, Guy LeCharles Gonzalez, Bill Kushner, Isabelle Balot, Aracelis Girmay, Douglas Martin, C.A. Conrad, Daniela Gioseffi, Guy Sharar, Claudia Alick, Jesse Alick, Karma Mayet Johnson, Jane Sprague, Kazim Ali, Carlos Gomez, Patricia Carlin, Lynne Procope, Derek Beres, Barbara Jane Reyes, Jade Sharma, Travis Montez, Peter Rojcewicz, Felice Belle, Karen Jaime, Elaine Sexton, Brendan Lorber, Vincent Toro, Pat Duffy, and Cole Rachel. With performances by Kwaku Kwaakye Obeng, Second2Last, tyren (grfx), and Haale with hip-hop poetry by Wordsworth, Wiseguy & Gaston, Juggaknots, MANICexpressize, Evolution, Anacaona, and Rocky. The reading benefits the Ghana Education Project (GEP), which builds libraries and trains volunteers as International AIDS Instructors through the International Red Cross. There is a $10 suggested donation and in return you can get to stay as long as you like and get books from Rattapallax Press valuing over $15. ALL proceeds go to GEP. Additional information at http://www.dialoguepoetry.org/aids.htm (Any questions to Yerra Sugarman: Yersug at aol.com) From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Mon Aug 25 17:13:47 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:13:47 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: George Kalamaras Message-ID: <3F4A7C0A.646A3803@earthlink.net> Blas de Otero and the Pantry of Blood "The kitchen is the most surrealist thing in the house." - Blas de Otero The pantry asked for something more. Aprons, oranges, blood. The kitchen dirt of Blas de Otero and a Howitzer stove firmed in 1937. Its door opened and shut, the way an eyelid craves death - that's all he knew. For a very long time peasants from Viet Nam inhabited the pantry, until one day when there was no more rice. For a long drink, the Arabian horse betrayed its owner and, kicking over a shelf, looked almost content. For many turns the Madrid theatre gate (imported as a decorative accessory) kept reflecting smudges of so many confused hips having asked themselves in their grindings, *Which is more surreal - a kitchen, a pantry, or a film?* The pantry asked for something - anymore - more. For Blas de Otero to leave the kitchen, return to Spain. For the film of the Republic to rewind itself and salve the eyes. For Blas de Otero to abandon the caves in Cuba. Asparagus in Indo-Chine. To once again pick up that pencil nub and thrust it into the neck of all those back home whom he loved, or would ever hope to love. Aprons, dust, coal-colored juice, Havana cigars. Even in Cuba, while he had been out, someone had been sleeping in his bed, listening to music with his fork, had even eaten asparagus stored in cans - though he had been gone only an hour, he could smell its sulfur already in the next room in the toilet. The pantry door opened and closed, like a fist full of coffee-beans. Like a threatening in the heart trembling to choke the wrist. Like the eyes of Blas de Otero as he pinned the napkin to the neck and tenderly, almost cruelly, fed spoonfuls of Franco to Franco himself, over and over again. - George Kalamaras, "The Bitter Oleander" & in _No Boundaries: Prose Poems by 24 American Poets, ed. Ray Gonzalez From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 25 17:15:56 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:15:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Langpo Daily Message-ID: <181.1f9a75f7.2c7bd68c@aol.com> In a message dated 8/24/03 3:42:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > On another list we've been looking at today's Poetry Daily offering. > > First, though, take a glance at the blurb that accompanies it, and see if > you can predict much about the poem: > > "These poems are unconventional, deep, independent, un-American, > all-American, hip, tragic, observant, skitterish, critical, political, > crushed, brushed, funny. It is the range of motion and emotion in them that > makes them matter." (Fanny Howe) Two things in your post remind me of the series of essays by Joan Houlihan, "How Contemporary American Poets Are Denaturing the Poem." In one piece she takes to task the blurb and blurbers. It's a pretty easy target, true, but the idiocy of this convention deserves to be derided from time to time. I wish there was a rule that the blurb had to be an actual excerpt from a published book review or critical article. That way at least there would fewer egregious blurbs of this kind to bear. And first books would be largely exempt from these silly overly laudatory squibs. > OK, ready for the poem? Here goes: In couple of Houlihan'se essays she takes on langpo, postmo, post-post, etc. (Paul Lake posted the link a while back: http://webdelsol.com/f-bostoncomment.htm) Nothing very revelatory in her criticism. She likes poems that mean something other than themselves, and so do I for that matter, but she implies a kind of harm being done to poetry by these works. I can't see why someone would waste time writing something so insular as this poem (below) but I don't really see it as 'a wrong' being perpetrated against poetry & its readers/audience, as she asserts. There is room for two audiences (if not several) and never the twain shall meet. One audience wants the poem to make evident its thinking, to take a definable position, to be emotionally available. And the other audience cares little for what the speaker is trying to say or whether the speaker wants to make known her/his emotional response. The latter audience cares more about the verve of the language and the nerve to mix high and low diction, and less for what is being said. Critically, I believe we're at a bifurcation point. It's not like one side is going to convince the other of the rightness of its way. Each constituency will have its own magazines and critics. They'll take pot shot at each other and decry the other side's siphoning off of the slim resources this art form and its supporting institutions throw off, but little will be resolved. A big question remains, and Houlihan only tangentially raises it, that is: How will this other kind of poem/poetry, like Robyn Ewing's, be criticized? So far much of the critical work has been either sniping across the barricades or defensive criticism (back-filling a literary heritage and making claims for the theories behind this latter kind of poetry writing). I can say I don't like excessive word-play in a poem (I don't), that free association is just too easy a method of making language dance. But if I'm coming from a critical point of view in support of langpo/postmo, one that actually values this mode of writing, then who among that constituency will stand up and say that so&so's language doesn't do the dance correctly, that the poem is doing a "tarantella" when it should be kicking up a "jig & reel". Right now an adequate critical vocabulary doesn't seem to exist. Houlihan wants to engage this poetry through "parsable syntax, drama and story,?epiphany and symbolism, connected imagery,?recognizable voice or narration?" That's just being a willful wallflower. But will language/postmo poetry develop a set of critics who will rip at it from the inside? What will the internecine criticism, when it comes, look like? And forget about criticism based on the subject matter and integrity of imagery (Houlihan drags out the blind men and the elephant gag), because that's entirely beside the point to this kind of sensibility. That's not only apples & oranges but mangoes to boot. Perhaps this is one of the reasons there aren't many writing programs or writing conferences as yet that are centered around this kind of poetry. If Robyn presented this poem in workshop what would you say to her that could be of help? How would you articulate your kindly & helpful attack? So far the critique raised most often by the old school langpoes against those young poets influenced by them is something along the lines of: All style and no substance. Telling off the newer gang for "going post-L" sans the politics Finnegan P.S.: personally, re this poem, "dim sum" came to mind, but it was lunch time and it only goes to prove that I don't shun wordplay as critical method. > __________________________________________ > Sum Our Only Blue > > > Fingerflames > lake-long > a far boil across this > our only blue > redbed rivering > above (becoming > see) below : soil's > torn fill > however-entered > seeds nosepoints > righted prayer- > heads huddle- > bottomed > for when > for water > for will > sun sleep ? what > mighty littles? > battled from > seedcoat's open > necks (temporary > oubliettes) to > bud to flower to > sum : endfruit : > each : a truth > of each multiplicative > inverses love > crosses leaping > centers disinterest > free to from > care but immediate > claim none (but > (mother for) each > is : other's > mother for what > is (mother ? merely > perfect) endfruit is ; > is not flower is ; is > not bud is ; is > not seed is ; is not > end mother? : end > moves in these: > reciprocal : equations > a calling she calls > comes the absolute? > a floating erase : as > a wave : each is ; is > not its last (end > and) so : end ; end- > flower we are > and one : sum > > > Robyn Ewing > Chemical Wedding > Colorado Prize for Poetry > Center for Literary Publishing From tscotpeterson at hotmail.com Mon Aug 25 17:42:32 2003 From: tscotpeterson at hotmail.com (Tim Peterson) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:42:32 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New Poetry] Langpo Daily Message-ID: Well, I think the psychoanalytic cat-chasing-its-own-tail aspect of this poem is interesting, that hall of mirrors in itself. I don't know if it's worthwhile, but I'm definitely interested in some of those paradoxes. Maybe I'm just naive, or behind the times in this area...anyone have recommendations for how to resist the undertow of the whole mother/other issue without getting all Deuleuze and Guattari? Is the way this poem addresses those issues somehow trite or "not enough"? Tim Peterson > >Message: 6 >From: "Bob Grumman" >To: >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Langpo Daily >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:33:07 -0400 >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > >This poem must be the virus-of-the-day; I just answered a similar post >an yet another list. It doesn't seem particularly langpo. It's just >another FoJ (Friend of Jorie)--nothing to get all het up about. A >little sunset on the lake, seedlings, meditation on process & identity. > The usual. Little whisper of Roethke for good measure. It has some >nice moments. > >Wendy > >**Yeah, I thought there was some Roethke in it, too, but wasn't sure enough >to say so. The female Graham's name crossed my mind, too. > >--Bob G. > > _________________________________________________________________ Enter for your chance to IM with Bon Jovi, Seal, Bow Wow, or Mary J Blige using MSN Messenger http://entertainment.msn.com/imastar From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Mon Aug 25 20:02:21 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:02:21 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Langpo Daily References: <181.1f9a75f7.2c7bd68c@aol.com> Message-ID: <014f01c36b65$53329a40$e7e9fea9@j1c1k6> I agree that most blurbs are bad, and not just blurbs for poetry. > OK, ready for the poem? Here goes: I can't see why someone would waste time writing something so insular as this poem (below) **How do you know it's insular? I think it may be but am not sure. but I don't really see it as 'a wrong' being perpetrated against poetry & its readers/audience, as she asserts. There is room for two audiences (if not several) and never the twain shall meet. One audience wants the poem to make evident its thinking, to take a definable position, to be emotionally available. **I am contemptuous of most of those in this audience not for what they want, as described above, but for (1) their wanting it immediately, and (2) their assumption that if they don't get it immediately, it's not there. And the other audience cares little for what the speaker is trying to say or whether the speaker wants to make known her/his emotional response. The latter audience cares more about the verve of the language and the nerve to mix high and low diction, and less for what is being said. Critically, I believe we're at a bifurcation point. It's not like one side is going to convince the other of the rightness of its way. Each constituency will have its own magazines and critics. They'll take pot shot at each other and decry the other side's siphoning off of the slim resources this art form and its supporting institutions throw off, but little will be resolved. A big question remains, and Houlihan only tangentially raises it, that is: How will this other kind of poem/poetry, like Robyn Ewing's, be criticized? So far much of the critical work has been either sniping across the barricades or defensive criticism (back-filling a literary heritage and making claims for the theories behind this latter kind of poetry writing). I can say I don't like excessive word-play in a poem (I don't), that free association is just too easy a method of making language dance. But if I'm coming from a critical point of view in support of langpo/postmo, one that actually values this mode of writing, then who among that constituency will stand up and say that so&so's language doesn't do the dance correctly, that the poem is doing a "tarantella" when it should be kicking up a "jig & reel". Right now an adequate critical vocabulary doesn't seem to exist. Houlihan wants to engage this poetry through "parsable syntax, drama and story,?epiphany and symbolism, connected imagery,?recognizable voice or narration?" That's just being a willful wallflower. But will language/postmo poetry develop a set of critics who will rip at it from the inside? What will the internecine criticism, when it comes, look like? And forget about criticism based on the subject matter and integrity of imagery (Houlihan drags out the blind men and the elephant gag), because that's entirely beside the point to this kind of sensibility. That's not only apples & oranges but mangoes to boot. Perhaps this is one of the reasons there aren't many writing programs or writing conferences as yet that are centered around this kind of poetry. If Robyn presented this poem in workshop what would you say to her that could be of help? How would you articulate your kindly & helpful attack? So far the critique raised most often by the old school langpoes against those young poets influenced by them is something along the lines of: All style and no substance. Telling off the newer gang for "going post-L" sans the politics Finnegan P.S.: personally, re this poem, "dim sum" came to mind, but it was lunch time and it only goes to prove that I don't shun wordplay as critical method. ***I think you raise interesting questions, James. As a critic who has tried a few times to get a fix on this kind of poetry, I believe in the old new criticism: say what's there and whether it works or not. I disagree about not looking for unified something and the other old standards of poetry. I think any poetry to be successful has to repeat the old verities. But do so freshly. I think the bifurcation is between poetry that does so too overtly and poetry that does so too arcanely. I'm not sure the Ewing poem is langpo. I also think it presents a state of mind that includes strong emotions. If Marcus will forgive me, I have little more to say. at this time. I'm not up to an attempt fully to analyze the poem, or present my theory of poetics. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. --Bob G. From JforJames at aol.com Mon Aug 25 20:11:13 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:11:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA Message-ID: <15a.237cd339.2c7bffa1@aol.com> In a message dated 8/25/03 3:10:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: > One of > the other 8 panel members had been serving on NEA panels since 1978. I'm surprised by this, Paul. I know it's easier to keep asking the ready/able/willing to re-up, but they really ought to have term limits or some kind of rotation scheme. Finnegan From halvard at earthlink.net Tue Aug 26 07:41:44 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:41:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Thomas McGrath, "A Momentary Loss . . ." Message-ID: A Momentary Loss of Belief in the Wisdom of the Common People and a Curse on the Bastards Who Own and Operate Them "War is the continuation of policy by other means." So said Von Clausewitz. But war is also The continuation of false consciousness And falsified policy and politics And greed masked as bourgeois generosity By the falsified desires of American imperialism By presidents wedded to cowboys and missiles By chauvinist beer salesmen peddling the stars and stripes by the six-pack By the trained psychopathic liars of the State Department By simple-minded sods in all fifty states By the born-simple clergy and suckers of religion By the bearded dons and Ph.D. dumdums of Academia By painters selling third-hand Da Da at fancy prices By poets who have forgot their songs in their gilded cages By farmers sold out and put on the road and still finding their enemy in Nicaragua or El Salvador By workers given their walking papers for life and their heads still so unscrewed they think the enemy is Russia or Communism By housewives pissing their pants and dreaming of Red Terror Or hijackers invading Podunk By other means. Politics is the continuation of war by other means. And now, you celebrated American jackasses: You still want war? Go let a hole in the head shed light on your darkling brain-- Remember Vietnam? Go and be damned! But don't count on me for nothing you righteous stupid sons of bitches! --Thomas McGrath fr. *Death Song* [Port Townsend: Copper Canyon Press, 1991] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Aug 26 11:26:19 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:26:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA In-Reply-To: <3F4A625F.89E13D2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: on 8/25/03 2:24 PM, James Cervantes at jvcervantes at earthlink.net wrote: > I've been through "the experience" at the state arts commission level > (which is NEA money anyway) and at the city arts commission level. > Naturally, we can't mention names or specifics, so I'm wondering what > aspects of "the experience" you have in mind. > > - Jim > > Paul Lake wrote: >> >> The week before last I spent three days in D. C. working on a literary panel >> at the NEA. It was the first time I'd ever served on such a panel. One of >> the other 8 panel members had been serving on NEA panels since 1978. I was >> wondering how many others on this list had ever served on an NEA literary >> panel of any kind. I'm curious to see how rare or widespread the experience >> is. Generally considering myself something of a literary outsider, and never >> having been on the receiving end of any Endowment money, I found it rather >> odd for once to be helping decide what literary enterprises were funded. >> >> Paul Lake >> >> --- >> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > Nothing specific, just a general sense of what it was like giving deciding who gets funded. Paul --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Aug 26 11:31:32 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:31:32 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Langpo Daily In-Reply-To: <014f01c36b65$53329a40$e7e9fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: I've got an essay coming on line next month on Contemporary Poetry Online that deals with some of the issues the Houlihan essay and the discussion of this poem touch on. I'll post a link when the piece is up. Paul Lake on 8/25/03 7:02 PM, Bob Grumman at bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net wrote: > I agree that most blurbs are bad, and not just blurbs for poetry. > >> OK, ready for the poem? Here goes: > > I can't see why someone would waste time writing something so insular > as this poem (below) > > **How do you know it's insular? I think it may be but am not sure. > > > but I don't really see it as 'a wrong' being perpetrated > against poetry & its readers/audience, as she asserts. > > There is room for two audiences (if not several) and never > the twain shall meet. One audience wants the poem to make evident > its thinking, to take a definable position, to be emotionally available. > > **I am contemptuous of most of those in this audience not for what they > want, as described above, but for (1) their wanting it immediately, and (2) > their assumption that if they don't get it immediately, it's not there. > > > > > And the other audience cares little for what the speaker is trying to say > or whether the speaker wants to make known her/his emotional response. > The latter audience cares more about the verve of the language and > the nerve to mix high and low diction, and less for what is being said. > > Critically, I believe we're at a bifurcation point. It's not like one side > is going to convince the other of the rightness of its way. Each > constituency will have its own magazines and critics. They'll take > pot shot at each other and decry the other side's siphoning off > of the slim resources this art form and its supporting institutions throw > off, > but little will be resolved. > > A big question remains, and Houlihan only tangentially raises > it, that is: How will this other kind of poem/poetry, like Robyn > Ewing's, be criticized? So far much of the critical work has > been either sniping across the barricades or defensive criticism > (back-filling a literary heritage and making claims for the theories > behind this latter kind of poetry writing). > > I can say I don't like excessive word-play in a poem (I don't), that free > association is just too easy a method of making language dance. > But if I'm coming from a critical point of view in support of langpo/postmo, > one that actually values this mode of writing, then who among that > constituency will stand up and say that so&so's language doesn't > do the dance correctly, that the poem is doing a "tarantella" when it should > be kicking up a "jig & reel". Right now an adequate critical vocabulary > doesn't > seem to exist. Houlihan wants to engage this poetry through "parsable > syntax, > drama and story,?epiphany and symbolism, connected imagery,?recognizable > voice or narration?" That's just being a willful wallflower. > > But will language/postmo poetry develop a set of critics who will rip at it > from the inside? What will the internecine criticism, when it comes, look > like? > And forget about criticism based on the subject matter and integrity > of imagery (Houlihan drags out the blind men and the elephant gag), > because that's entirely beside the point to this kind of sensibility. That's > not only apples & oranges but mangoes to boot. Perhaps this is one of > the reasons there aren't many writing programs or writing conferences as yet > that are centered around this kind of poetry. If Robyn presented this poem > in workshop what would you say to her that could be of help? How would > you articulate your kindly & helpful attack? So far the critique raised most > often by the old school langpoes against those young poets influenced > by them is something along the lines of: All style and no substance. > Telling off the newer gang for "going post-L" sans the politics > Finnegan > P.S.: personally, re this poem, "dim sum" came to mind, but it was lunch > time and it only goes to prove that I don't shun wordplay as critical > method. > > ***I think you raise interesting questions, James. As a critic who has > tried a few times to get a fix on this kind of poetry, I believe in the old > new criticism: say what's there and whether it works or not. I disagree > about not looking for unified something and the other old standards of > poetry. I think any poetry to be successful has to repeat the old verities. > But do so freshly. I think the bifurcation is between poetry that does so > too overtly and poetry that does so too arcanely. > > I'm not sure the Ewing poem is langpo. I also think it presents a state of > mind that includes strong emotions. > > If Marcus will forgive me, I have little more to say. at this time. I'm not > up to an attempt fully to analyze the poem, or present my theory of poetics. > Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. > > --Bob G. > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Tue Aug 26 11:34:29 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:34:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA In-Reply-To: <15a.237cd339.2c7bffa1@aol.com> Message-ID: on 8/25/03 7:11 PM, JforJames at aol.com at JforJames at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/25/03 3:10:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: > >> One of >> the other 8 panel members had been serving on NEA panels since 1978. > I'm surprised by this, Paul. I know it's easier to keep asking the > ready/able/willing > to re-up, but they really ought to have term limits or some kind of rotation > scheme. > Finnegan > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > I was surprised, too, for several reasons. First, it's a lot of damn work for pay that barely covers one's expenses. And of course it seems odd that one person would again and again be called for under different administrations. By the way, to answer a question on a thread from a while back about why people keep calling Dana Gioia "Chairman Gioia," I found that's the official title by which the chair is know. In a publication I saw at the NEA, even Laura Bush refers to him as "Chairman Gioia." Paul --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From JforJames at aol.com Tue Aug 26 11:56:43 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:56:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: [New Poetry] Langpo Daily Message-ID: <9c.347fc718.2c7cdd3b@aol.com> From: "Tim Peterson" Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:42:32 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Well, I think the psychoanalytic cat-chasing-its-own-tail aspect of this poem is interesting, that hall of mirrors in itself. I don't know if it's worthwhile, but I'm definitely interested in some of those paradoxes. Maybe I'm just naive, or behind the times in this area...anyone have recommendations for how to resist the undertow of the whole mother/other issue without getting all Deuleuze and Guattari? Is the way this poem addresses those issues somehow trite or "not enough"? Tim Peterson --- Tim, you may be right in what you've gleaned from the poem. But with this kind of poem, of course, it's just one of many possible readings (or readings into). I note that the poem could be operating as a visionary nature lyric. Fully two-thirds of the poem's (often coupled) images are made of words from nature (lake, river, soil, seed, flower, fruit, etc.). So, perhaps, the mother is mother nature/earth (Gaia). The seed-flower-fruit transformation seems to be important thematically. Just for good measure, or following from her title, she has mixed in some of the language of mathematics (multiplicative inverses, reciprocal :equations) as tho the mind was looking through the scrim of reality with a Newtonian all-knowingness. And with other words like "prayer," "truth," "love," "a calling," "absolute," one might see some elements of the spiritual/philosophical welling up within this lyric. Anyway, I think it's safe to say we're not ever going to be certain, given the disruptions in the phrasings, the iterations and thought-riffing that's taking place. With negative incapability, Finnegan > Sum Our Only Blue > > > Fingerflames > lake-long > a far boil across this > our only blue > redbed rivering > above (becoming > see) below : soil's > torn fill > however-entered > seeds nosepoints > righted prayer- > heads huddle- > bottomed > for when > for water > for will > sun sleep ? what > mighty littles > battled from > seedcoat's open > necks (temporary > oubliettes) to > bud to flower to > sum : endfruit : > each : a truth > of each multiplicative > inverses love > crosses leaping > centers disinterest > free to from > care but immediate > claim none (but > (mother for) each > is : other's > mother for what > is (mother ? merely > perfect) endfruit is ; > is not flower is ; is > not bud is ; is > not seed is ; is not > end mother? : end > moves in these: > reciprocal : equations > a calling she calls > comes the absolute > a floating erase : as > a wave : each is ; is > not its last (end > and) so : end ; end- > flower we are > and one : sum > > > Robyn Ewing > Chemical Wedding > Colorado Prize for Poetry > Center for Literary Publishing From Cadaly at aol.com Tue Aug 26 13:44:26 2003 From: Cadaly at aol.com (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:44:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] LA: PEN West Fellows at Portrait of a Bookstore, 7 pm, August 30 Message-ID: <72.30f7ec56.2c7cf67a@aol.com> PEN West Emerging Voices Fellows at Portrait of a Bookstore, 7 pm, August 30, 2003 The "venue of the contemporary poets," Portrait of a Bookstore, presents PEN West Emerging Voices fellows on two consecutive weekends Beginning at 7 pm, Rocio Carlos-Gonzales and Kisha Palmer will be reading in the charming, intimate, tree-shaded brick patio of independent bookstore Portrait of a Bookstore (behind Aroma Caf?) 4360 Tujunga Avenue Studio City in an event curated by Catherine Daly, author of DaDaDa (Salt Publishing) and the forthcoming Locket (Tupelo Press). She will be reading from and signing DaDaDa at Barnes & Noble Westwood Tuesday night. http://www.catherinedaly.info For more information about the store, call 818-769-3853. if you haven't been there yet, here's a link: http://news.bookweb.org/booksense/1286.html there's parking in the back, and usually street parking either on Tujunga or around the corner in this well-lit area Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MIM47 at aol.com Tue Aug 26 13:46:02 2003 From: MIM47 at aol.com (MIM47 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:46:02 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] new message Message-ID: <193.1ee13018.2c7cf6da@aol.com> Hello all! I'm not so sure I know how to post here but I'll give it a go: Regarding Paul Lake's discussion of the NEA: I think he said ONE of the other 8 had served previously. If that's so, it might be a good thing (voice of experience and the like). I do know Dana Gioia personally and can assure all that he is both ethical and enthusiastic. His dedication to poetry as an indispensible human art is legendary. He has great ideas and the business savvy to put behind them. He is a gentleman and will get things done in a gentlemanly manner. But make no mistake about it, he WILL get things done that will benefit poetry (and all the arts) and the benefit will be long-lasting. One of the programs he has already instituted is a traveling Shakespeare experience. This brings the Bard's influence to small cities and towns where previously there had been no live theatre. He is also planning a programmed curriculum on Shakespeare that will be available to high school English teachers: Shakespeare-in-a-box. This will provide the teachers with a complete system for teaching Shakespeare. It will be free of charge to teachers who request it. As poets, we must applaud this effort. I think we might all pretty much agree that one has to start somewhere. As Dana stated this summer in a keynote speech at the Teaching Poetry Conference in Santa Rosa, CA: "it's a huge task (revitalizing the NEA and the Arts in America) but we must begin taking steps, wherever we can." Carol Bachofner From chryss at silcom.com Tue Aug 26 14:22:32 2003 From: chryss at silcom.com (chryss at silcom.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:22:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] NEA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1061922152.3f4ba568148e9@webmail.netlojix.com> Speaking of Chairman Gioia, he will be on KCRW's Politics of Culture radio show today at 2:30 pacific time. You can listen to it online at http://www.kcrw.org/show/pc C. Quoting Paul Lake : > on 8/25/03 7:11 PM, JforJames at aol.com at JforJames at aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 8/25/03 3:10:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: > > > >> One of > >> the other 8 panel members had been serving on NEA panels since 1978. > > I'm surprised by this, Paul. I know it's easier to keep asking the > > ready/able/willing > > to re-up, but they really ought to have term limits or some kind of > rotation > > scheme. > > Finnegan > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > I was surprised, too, for several reasons. First, it's a lot of damn work > for pay that barely covers one's expenses. And of course it seems odd that > one person would again and again be called for under different > administrations. > > By the way, to answer a question on a thread from a while back about why > people keep calling Dana Gioia "Chairman Gioia," I found that's the official > title by which the chair is know. In a publication I saw at the NEA, even > Laura Bush refers to him as "Chairman Gioia." > > Paul > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From halvard at earthlink.net Wed Aug 27 11:17:04 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:17:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Thomas McGrath, "War Resisters' Song" Message-ID: War Resisters' Song Come live with me and be my love And we will all the pleasures prove-- Or such as presidents may spare Within the decorum of Total War. By bosky glades, by babbling streams (Babbling of Fission, His remains) We discover happiness' isotrope And live the half-life of our hope. While Geiger counters sweetly click In concentration camps we'll fuck. Called traitors? That's but sticks and stone We've Strontium 90 in our bones! And thus, adjusted to our lot, Our kisses will be doubly hot-- Fornicating (like good machines) We'll try the chances of our genes. So (if Insufficient Grace Hath not fouled thy secret place Nor fall-out burnt my balls away) Who knows? but we may get a boy-- Some paragon with but one head And no more brains than is allowed; And between his legs, where once was love, Monsters to pack the future with. --Thomas McGrath fr. *Selected Poems: 1938-1988* [Port Townsend: Copper Canyon Press, 1988] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Aug 27 11:23:46 2003 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:23:46 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Matthews' Young Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A01D@mail.ripon.edu> A poem in honor of Lester Young's birthday: Listening to Lester Young for Reg Saner It's 1958. Lester Young minces out, spraddle-legged as if pain were something he could step over by raising his groin, and begins to play. Soon he'll be dead. It's all tone now and tome slurring toward the center of each note. The edges that used to be exactly ragged as deckle are already dead. His embouchure is wobbly and he's so tired from dying he quotes himself, easy to remember the fingering. It's 1958 and a jazz writer is coming home from skating in Central Park. Who's that ahead? It's Lester Young! *Hey Pres*, he shouts and waves, letting his skates clatter. *You dropped your shit*, Pres says. It's 1976 and I'm listening to Lester Young through stereo equipment so good I can hear his breath rasp, water from a dry pond --, its bottom etched, like a palm, with strange marks, a language that was never born and in which palmists therefore can easily read the future. ============================================ David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html My Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ============================================ From marcus at designerglass.com Wed Aug 27 11:30:30 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:30:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Thomas McGrath, "War Resisters' Song" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3F4C9656.29670.CEAFE4@localhost> > War Resisters' Song > ... Some paragon with but one head > And no more brains than is allowed; > And between his legs, where once was love, > Monsters to pack the future with. > --Thomas McGrath Incompetent verse. Too bad. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Wed Aug 27 11:46:25 2003 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:46:25 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poems in honor of Lester Young In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A01D@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: David, Thanks for posting one of my favorite poems by Mathews and reminding me of Lester Young's birthday. Same title, different work: posting my own poem in honor of Prez's birthday. LISTENING TO LESTER YOUNG? ??????? . . . regrets are always late, too late!? ??????????????????????????????? ?John Ashbery? ? Late at night, I?m listening to one of Lester Young?s? ??????? slower solos again, and although I know he?s playing? those same notes I?ve heard over and over, as the tone? ??????? of his tenor saxophone turns toward a lower register,? even that patter of cold drizzle now pasting shadowy? ??????? leaves against my window seems to follow his lead.? I wonder what you would be doing tonight and I want? ??????? to write a few lines in my notebook about how blue? and ivory skies gave way to rain today after you left,? ??????? or how coming home from the train station, I thought? I saw something, a large and ominous animal suddenly? ??????? outlined by lightning on that sparsely wooded hillside? beside the deserted highway we always drive to save? ??????? a little bit of time.? As you travel farther away, hurrying? through the muted darkness still surrounding everything,? ??????? so that you cannot even see the land tilting at the sea? or the gulls slanting overhead when you approach? ??????? the coastline, I imagine you beginning a new book? in the dim light of that passenger car, reading another? ??????? long novel about characters not so unlike ourselves,? each chapter titled and numbered as if to indicate life? ??????? is merely a neat progression of unpredictable episodes.? By tomorrow evening you will be at that old hotel? ??????? where we once stayed for days in a room overlooking? plaza monuments deformed and whitened like marble? ??????? by a winter storm, while its foot of snowfall closed? the city down as though no one there had ever known? ??????? such weather in their lives.? If you were still here,? you?d be able to hear Lester backing Billie Holiday? ??????? on another ballad recorded more than six decades ago,? but years before the two of them finally knew the truth? ??????? about that high cost of living they would have to pay.? I?m beginning to believe their duets of lost love,? ??????? the ways they phrase each line of lyric or melody,? create images in the mind as vivid as any photo? ??????? or poem we might have seen, evoke those places? Prez and Lady Day played in their earlier days--? ??????? Harlem cabarets and late-night caf?s downtown,? or those small neighborhood halls with bare walls? ??????? and a gray haze of smoke above the stage, the ebony? and violet glow of an angled piano lid under indigo? ??????? lights, and a congregation of friendly faces gradually? fading into the black background with a persistent? ??????? chatter and clatter of glasses that lets everyone know? they are not alone.? In the half hour before your? ??????? departure, when we sat silently on that station? platform bench, as though any attempt at conversation? ??????? would be hopeless and in fear someone around us? might overhear what we had to say, I tried somehow? ??????? to take into account how far apart we already were:? even then, I felt regrets are all we had left in common. --Edward Byrne? ? ? [ First appeared in Crab Orchard Review]? -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Wed Aug 27 13:39:33 2003 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:39:33 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] poems in honor of Lester Young In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David tells me by backchannel that the poem I posted in honor of Lester Young's birthday was cluttered with format markings in his email, probably because I'd copied it from a web page. Though it came through clearly in my email, I'm sorry if others had a similar problem. Here's another try. --Ed LISTENING TO LESTER YOUNG . . . regrets are always late, too late! --John Ashbery Late at night, I?m listening to one of Lester Young?s slower solos again, and although I know he?s playing those same notes I?ve heard over and over, as the tone of his tenor saxophone turns toward a lower register, even that patter of cold drizzle now pasting shadowy leaves against my window seems to follow his lead. I wonder what you would be doing tonight and I want to write a few lines in my notebook about how blue and ivory skies gave way to rain today after you left, or how coming home from the train station, I thought I saw something, a large and ominous animal suddenly outlined by lightning on that sparsely wooded hillside beside the deserted highway we always drive to save a little bit of time. As you travel farther away, hurrying through the muted darkness still surrounding everything, so that you cannot even see the land tilting at the sea or the gulls slanting overhead when you approach the coastline, I imagine you beginning a new book in the dim light of that passenger car, reading another long novel about characters not so unlike ourselves, each chapters titled and numbered as if to indicate life is merely a neat progression of unpredictable episodes. By tomorrow evening you will be at that old hotel where we once stayed for days in a room overlooking plaza monuments deformed and whitened like marble by a winter storm, while its foot of snowfall closed the city down as though no one there had ever known such weather in their lives. If you were still here, you?d be able to hear Lester backing Billie Holiday on another ballad recorded more than six decades ago, but years before the two of them finally knew the truth about that high cost of living they would have to pay. I?m beginning to believe their duets of lost love, the ways they phrase each line of lyric or melody, create images in the mind as vivid as any photo or poem we might have seen, evoke those places Prez and Lady Day played in their earlier days-- Harlem cabarets and late-night caf?s downtown, or those small neighborhood halls with bare walls and a gray haze of smoke above the stage, the ebony and violet glow of an angled piano lid under indigo lights, and a congregation of friendly faces gradually fading into the black background with a persistent chatter and clatter of glasses that lets everyone know they are not alone. In the half hour before your departure, when we sat silently on that station platform bench, as though any attempt at conversation would be hopeless and in fear someone around us might overhear what we had to say, I tried somehow to take into account how far apart we already were: even then, I felt regrets are all we had left in common. --Edward Byrne [First appeared in _Crab Orchard Review_] -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From tadrichards at prodigy.net Wed Aug 27 13:44:35 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:44:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poems in honor of Lester Young References: Message-ID: <001901c36cc2$e1399b50$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> IN A DREAM, SHE SEES LESTER YOUNG STANDING NAKED In a dream, she sees Lester Young standing naked at the door to her kitchen. He is as women are to men in the dream, an invitation, not as men are to women, intrusion. His body is soft, and she wonders where that hard part is inside him, the tunnel of breath that turned Lady Be Good or Lester Leaps In. She gets up and walks to the kitchen, but he's not there. Thirsty, she runs the tap, and while the water cools, she watches it splash on the round of a spoon, spongy and brittle, as it would be, passed through that tunnel in her, in Lester, diffracted, never shaped. --Tad Richards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Byrne" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] poems in honor of Lester Young David, Thanks for posting one of my favorite poems by Mathews and reminding me of Lester Young's birthday. Same title, different work: posting my own poem in honor of Prez's birthday. LISTENING TO LESTER YOUNG? ??????? . . . regrets are always late, too late!? ??????????????????????????????? ?John Ashbery? ? Late at night, I?m listening to one of Lester Young?s? ??????? slower solos again, and although I know he?s playing? those same notes I?ve heard over and over, as the tone? ??????? of his tenor saxophone turns toward a lower register,? even that patter of cold drizzle now pasting shadowy? ??????? leaves against my window seems to follow his lead.? I wonder what you would be doing tonight and I want? ??????? to write a few lines in my notebook about how blue? and ivory skies gave way to rain today after you left,? ??????? or how coming home from the train station, I thought? I saw something, a large and ominous animal suddenly? ??????? outlined by lightning on that sparsely wooded hillside? beside the deserted highway we always drive to save? ??????? a little bit of time.? As you travel farther away, hurrying? through the muted darkness still surrounding everything,? ??????? so that you cannot even see the land tilting at the sea? or the gulls slanting overhead when you approach? ??????? the coastline, I imagine you beginning a new book? in the dim light of that passenger car, reading another? ??????? long novel about characters not so unlike ourselves,? each chapter titled and numbered as if to indicate life? ??????? is merely a neat progression of unpredictable episodes.? By tomorrow evening you will be at that old hotel? ??????? where we once stayed for days in a room overlooking? plaza monuments deformed and whitened like marble? ??????? by a winter storm, while its foot of snowfall closed? the city down as though no one there had ever known? ??????? such weather in their lives.? If you were still here,? you?d be able to hear Lester backing Billie Holiday? ??????? on another ballad recorded more than six decades ago,? but years before the two of them finally knew the truth? ??????? about that high cost of living they would have to pay.? I?m beginning to believe their duets of lost love,? ??????? the ways they phrase each line of lyric or melody,? create images in the mind as vivid as any photo? ??????? or poem we might have seen, evoke those places? Prez and Lady Day played in their earlier days--? ??????? Harlem cabarets and late-night cafZs downtown,? or those small neighborhood halls with bare walls? ??????? and a gray haze of smoke above the stage, the ebony? and violet glow of an angled piano lid under indigo? ??????? lights, and a congregation of friendly faces gradually? fading into the black background with a persistent? ??????? chatter and clatter of glasses that lets everyone know? they are not alone.? In the half hour before your? ??????? departure, when we sat silently on that station? platform bench, as though any attempt at conversation? ??????? would be hopeless and in fear someone around us? might overhear what we had to say, I tried somehow? ??????? to take into account how far apart we already were:? even then, I felt regrets are all we had left in common. --Edward Byrne? ? ? [ First appeared in Crab Orchard Review]? -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From elemenope at icubed.com Wed Aug 27 01:47:58 2003 From: elemenope at icubed.com (ELEMENOPE Productions) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:47:58 +0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] McGrath's Loopy Wrath In-Reply-To: <200308271601.h7RG13ST024253@wiz.cath.vt.edu> References: <200308271601.h7RG13ST024253@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: RadLib McGrath's incompetent childish aesthetics are merely exceeded by his insufferable, incoherent ethics. Corrupt verse siamese to corrupt politics. This multiheaded voice, forked tongued, lost its mandate to lead when shown the door by White House butler. The only thing McGrath's farrago is good for is to be an example of what not to think or how to go about thinking on these issues. Wittgenstein spanks McGrath, thusly. ---- RD ELEMENOPE Productions >--__--__-- > >Message: 6 >From: "Marcus Bales" >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:30:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Thomas McGrath, "War >Resisters' Song" >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >> War Resisters' Song >> ... Some paragon with but one head >> And no more brains than is allowed; >> And between his legs, where once was love, >> Monsters to pack the future with. >> --Thomas McGrath > >Incompetent verse. Too bad. >Marcus Bales > >marcus at designerglass.com >http://www.designerglass.com -- From MillB at aol.com Wed Aug 27 14:09:52 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:09:52 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: The End of California Arts Council Message-ID: I just received the following notice from the CAC. Mill Legislative budget cuts have put the California Arts Council out the granting business. We have suspended all granting programs for the next two years. The agency is developing a CAC recognition award certificate for artists and art organizations that are doing exemplary work or long service to the arts or just emerging. The recognition award would provide a means for artists and art organizations to continue to receive CAC support, albeit symbolic. It is our hope such an award could be used to leverage funds from other granting agencies/foundation and provide a tool for press coverage. We are hoping to present the awards at public ceremonies with local legislators, art councils, and organizations. The reason I am writing to you is to ask if any of you are interested in providing us with an inspirational quote that could be used for the award certificate. The award would take two forms. One form would be as a paper certificate and the other would be seal that could be placed on an organization's building. Your words would symbolize the significance, value and contribution of the arts in California. The certificate would include an inspirational quote, artist/group name, official signatures, a visual from an artist fellowship (visual arts) and the CAC logo. It's an idea right now, but we want to develop it. Let me know if you have any ideas or suggestions. I would be happy to try to clarify any confusing elements of my email. Again, the intent is assist artists and groups that will no receive cash awards from us, but still deserve the recognition of the state agency. Thanks for your consideration.......Theresa Theresa Harlan Artist Fellowship Program Traditional Folk Arts Program California Arts Council For more information go to www.cac.ca.gov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Wed Aug 27 14:43:57 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:43:57 -0500 Subject: "Poss-Spam:"[New-Poetry] Re: The End of California Arts Council In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here?s a suggestion for the ?inspirational quote? to go with the certificate: ?THIS AWARD AND FIVE BUCKS CAN BUY YOU A CUP OF STARBUCKS.? Paul Lake on 8/27/03 1:09 PM, MillB at aol.com at MillB at aol.com wrote: > I just received the following notice from the CAC. > > Mill > > > > Legislative budget cuts have put the California Arts Council out the granting > business. We have suspended all granting programs for the next two years. > > The agency is developing a CAC recognition award certificate for artists and > art organizations that are doing exemplary work or long service to the arts or > just emerging. The recognition award would provide a means for artists and art > organizations to continue to receive CAC support, albeit symbolic. It is our > hope such an award could be used to leverage funds from other granting > agencies/foundation and provide a tool for press coverage. We are hoping to > present the awards at public ceremonies with local legislators, art councils, > and organizations. > > The reason I am writing to you is to ask if any of you are interested in > providing us with an inspirational quote that could be used for the award > certificate. The award would take two forms. One form would be as a paper > certificate and the other would be seal that could be placed on an > organization's building. Your words would symbolize the significance, value > and contribution of the arts in California. The certificate would include an > inspirational quote, artist/group name, official signatures, a visual from an > artist fellowship (visual arts) and the CAC logo. It's an idea right now, but > we want to develop it. Let me know if you have any ideas or suggestions. I > would be happy to try to clarify any confusing elements of my email. Again, > the intent is assist artists and groups that will no receive cash awards from > us, but still deserve the recognition of the state agency. > > Thanks for your consideration.......Theresa > > Theresa Harlan > Artist Fellowship Program > Traditional Folk Arts Program > California Arts Council > For more information go to www.cac.ca.gov > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD at ripon.edu Wed Aug 27 14:56:28 2003 From: GrahamD at ripon.edu (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:56:28 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] McGrath's Loopy Wrath Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD75990547A024@mail.ripon.edu> Thomas McGrath may have the patent on being "uneven" as a poet. He wrote in many forms and styles, and, as Donald Hall once put it in a review, when he failed it was seldom a nice tidy failure. No, you could hear the horrid screams as he fell into a deep dark chasm. Or words to that effect. Something admirable about his willingness to try all sorts of rhetoric, and to ignore silly polarities of metrical "versus" free verse--even though he most assuredly does fall flat a good deal of the time, alas. For what it's worth, here are a couple poems I like much better than the war resisters' song. Remembering That Island Remembering that island lying in the rain (Lost in the North Pacific, lost in time and the war) With a terrible fatigue as of repeated dreams Of running, climbing, fighting in the dark, I feel the wind rising and the pitiless cold surf Shaking the headlands of the black north. And the ships come in again out of the fog-- As real as nightmare I hear the rattle of blocks When the first boat comes down, the ghostly whisper of feet At the barge pier -- and wild with strain I wait For the flags of my first war, the remembered faces, And mine not among them to make the nightmare safe. Then without words, with a heavy shuffling of gear, The figures plod in the rain, in the seashore mud, Speechless and tired; their faces, lined and hard, I search for my comrades, and suddenly -- there -- there-- Harry, Charlie, and Bob, but their faces are worn, old, And mine is among them. In a dream as real as war I see the vast stinking Pacific suddenly awash Once more with bodies, landings on all beaches, The bodies of dead and living gone back to appointed places, A ten year old resurrection, And myself once more in the scourging wind, waiting, waiting While the rich oratory and the lying famous corrupt Senators mine our lives for another war. ------------------- THE BREAD OF THIS WORLD: PRAISES III On the Christmaswhite plains of the flowered and flowering kitchen table The holy loaves of the bread are slowly being born: Rising like low hills in the steepled pastures of light-- Lifting the prairie farm house afternoon on their arching backs. It must be Friday, the bread tells us as it climbs Out of itself like a poor man climbing up on a cross Toward transfiguration. And it is a Mystery, surely, If we think that this bread rises only out of the enigma That leavens the Apocalypse of yeast, or ascends on the beards and beads Of a rosary and priesthood of barley those Friday heavens Lofting. . . But we who will eat the bread when we come in Out of the cold and dark know it is a deeper mystery That brings the bread to rise: it is the love and faith Of large and lonely women, moving like floury clouds In farmhouse kitchens, that rounds the loaves and the lives Of those around them. . . just as we know it is hunger-- Our own and others'--that gives salt and savor to bread. But that is a workaday story and this is the end of the week. -- Thomas McGrath. *The Movie at the End of the World: Collected Poems*. Swallow Press, 1972. ------------------------------------- ============================================ David Graham Professor of English, Ripon College grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html My Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html Experience Ripon at http://www.ripon.edu ============================================ > ---------- > From: ELEMENOPE Productions > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 12:47 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] McGrath's Loopy Wrath > > RadLib McGrath's incompetent childish aesthetics are merely exceeded > by his insufferable, incoherent ethics. > > Corrupt verse siamese to corrupt politics. This multiheaded voice, > forked tongued, lost its mandate to lead when shown the door by White > House butler. > > The only thing McGrath's farrago is good for is to be an example of > what not to think or how to go about thinking on these issues. > > Wittgenstein spanks McGrath, thusly. > > ---- > > RD > ELEMENOPE Productions > > > > > > >--__--__-- > > > >Message: 6 > >From: "Marcus Bales" > >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:30:30 -0400 > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Thomas McGrath, "War > >Resisters' Song" > >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > >> War Resisters' Song > >> ... Some paragon with but one head > >> And no more brains than is allowed; > >> And between his legs, where once was love, > >> Monsters to pack the future with. > >> --Thomas McGrath > > > >Incompetent verse. Too bad. > >Marcus Bales > > > >marcus at designerglass.com > >http://www.designerglass.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From anny.ballardini at tin.it Wed Aug 27 16:30:41 2003 From: anny.ballardini at tin.it (Anny Ballardini) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:30:41 +0200 Subject: "Poss-Spam:"[New-Poetry] Re: The End of California ArtsCouncil References: Message-ID: <00c701c36cda$15eb0520$97607550@anny> Re: "Poss-Spam:"[New-Poetry] Re: The End of California Arts CouncilWORK HARD MY DEAR IT IS NOT HERE WHERE YOU'LL RECEIVE :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Lake To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:43 PM Subject: Re: "Poss-Spam:"[New-Poetry] Re: The End of California ArtsCouncil Here's a suggestion for the "inspirational quote" to go with the certificate: "THIS AWARD AND FIVE BUCKS CAN BUY YOU A CUP OF STARBUCKS." Paul Lake on 8/27/03 1:09 PM, MillB at aol.com at MillB at aol.com wrote: I just received the following notice from the CAC. Mill Legislative budget cuts have put the California Arts Council out the granting business. We have suspended all granting programs for the next two years. The agency is developing a CAC recognition award certificate for artists and art organizations that are doing exemplary work or long service to the arts or just emerging. The recognition award would provide a means for artists and art organizations to continue to receive CAC support, albeit symbolic. It is our hope such an award could be used to leverage funds from other granting agencies/foundation and provide a tool for press coverage. We are hoping to present the awards at public ceremonies with local legislators, art councils, and organizations. The reason I am writing to you is to ask if any of you are interested in providing us with an inspirational quote that could be used for the award certificate. The award would take two forms. One form would be as a paper certificate and the other would be seal that could be placed on an organization's building. Your words would symbolize the significance, value and contribution of the arts in California. The certificate would include an inspirational quote, artist/group name, official signatures, a visual from an artist fellowship (visual arts) and the CAC logo. It's an idea right now, but we want to develop it. Let me know if you have any ideas or suggestions. I would be happy to try to clarify any confusing elements of my email. Again, the intent is assist artists and groups that will no receive cash awards from us, but still deserve the recognition of the state agency. Thanks for your consideration.......Theresa Theresa Harlan Artist Fellowship Program Traditional Folk Arts Program California Arts Council For more information go to www.cac.ca.gov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MillB at aol.com Wed Aug 27 16:48:26 2003 From: MillB at aol.com (MillB at aol.com) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:48:26 EDT Subject: "Poss-Spam:"[New-Poetry] Re: The End of California ArtsCouncil Message-ID: I received a California Arts Council grant a couple of years ago, and consider myself VERY lucky. Perhaps, if and when Sacramento gets its act together, at some time in the future, the program will be reinstated? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trbell at comcast.net Wed Aug 27 20:42:18 2003 From: trbell at comcast.net (tom bell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:42:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] probably doesn't apply Message-ID: <033701c36cfd$3d71cde0$07e63644@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> to poetry: Scholars Perform Autopsy on Ancient Writing Systems Cause of Death Related to Lack Of Accessibility By Guy Gugliotta Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, August 25, 2003; Page A07 tom bell Some poetry available through geezer.com Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com Write for the Health of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Wed Aug 27 19:45:05 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:45:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] probably doesn't apply References: <033701c36cfd$3d71cde0$07e63644@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3F4D4280.7E644815@earthlink.net> Applies 100%. No exegisis to follow. - Jim tom bell wrote: > > to poetry: > > Scholars Perform Autopsy on Ancient Writing Systems > Cause of Death Related to Lack Of Accessibility > > > > By Guy Gugliotta Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, August 25, 2003; Page > A07 > > tom bell > > Some poetry available through geezer.com > > Section editor for PsyBC www.psychbc.com > > Write for the Health of It course at > http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar > http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/overview/37900 > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > art > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Thu Aug 28 13:38:42 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:38:42 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate Message-ID: Just heard that Louise Gluck has been named the nation's new Poet Laureate. What do y'all think of the pick? Paul Lake --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Thu Aug 28 14:45:44 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:45:44 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate Message-ID: <197.1efad25e.2c7fa7d8@cs.com> In a message dated 8/28/2003 12:48:05 PM Central Daylight Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: > > Just heard that Louise Gluck has been named the nation's new Poet Laureate. > What do y'all think of the pick? > > Paul Lake It seems to me that Louise Gluck Is a totally appropriate pick. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lshinn at sas.upenn.edu Thu Aug 28 14:57:28 2003 From: lshinn at sas.upenn.edu (Leslie Shinn) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:57:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <197.1efad25e.2c7fa7d8@cs.com> References: <197.1efad25e.2c7fa7d8@cs.com> Message-ID: An exciting choice! >In a message dated 8/28/2003 12:48:05 PM Central Daylight Time, >paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: > >> >>Just heard that Louise Gluck has been named the nation's new Poet Laureate. >>What do y'all think of the pick? >> >>Paul Lake >> > >It seems to me that Louise Gluck >Is a totally appropriate pick. -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcus at designerglass.com Thu Aug 28 15:03:38 2003 From: marcus at designerglass.com (Marcus Bales) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:03:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <197.1efad25e.2c7fa7d8@cs.com> Message-ID: <3F4E19CA.15.1B4F4AC@localhost> > > Just heard that Louise Gluck has been named the nation's new Poet Laureate. > > What do y'all think of the pick? > > Paul Lake > It seems to me that Louise Gluck > Is a totally appropriate pick. > Sam Gwynn Most of the country, on seeing that Gluck, Will say Louise has got the luck. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://www.designerglass.com From Thom424 at aol.com Thu Aug 28 16:33:54 2003 From: Thom424 at aol.com (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:33:54 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate Message-ID: <07761F93.50F4ED81.001A46F6@aol.com> Gluck to Be Named U.S. Poet Laureate Massachussetts Professor Known for 'Strong, Vivid' Work By Linton Weeks Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, August 28, 2003; 1:49 PM The new U.S. poet laureate is Louise Elisabeth Gluck, an English professor who has traditionally shied away from the limelight. The selection will be officially announced Friday by the Librarian of Congress, who said in a statement that Gluck (rhymes with pick) will bring to the office "a strong, vivid, deep poetic voice." Reached at her home in Cambridge, Mass., Gluck said that when she received the library's call, "to my surprise I didn't hesitate, even though I can't say I was unambivalently delighted. I have very little taste for public forums. " But, she said, "I thought my life needed to be disturbed and surprised." Because of that reticence, Gluck may prove to be a different kind of laureate from those of recent years. Outgoing laureate Billy Collins was, well, outgoing. "Some of us have chosen to spend a lot of time running around the country lighting poetry bonfires," Collins said. He added that he will be curious to see how Gluck will respond to the challenge. "The job can be tailored to each individual's personality," he said. Gluck's poems are "strong, crafted, urgent," Collins said. "I think she's an excellent choice." Today she was feeling a little frazzled. "I hope, having agreed to do it, I may do an honorable job," she said, adding, "whatever that may be." She prizes ordinary life, she said. And she was heartened by the knowledge that "many of the things poet laureates do are optional." She said she does not like to be photographed. According to the contract, she will be paid $30,000 for the one year appointment. She is expected to read once at the beginning of her tenure, once at the end and to organize some kind of reading in between. She also looks forward to handing out grants to young writers. "I know a lot of young writers who are working their butts off," she said. Compared to the wry, witty poetry of Billy Collins, Gluck said her poems are "probably more brutal, more disturbing, less readily accessible and charming." Her favorite dead poets include T.S. Eliot and William Carlos Williams. "I like writers whose successes are quixotic and partial," she said. "Some of their poems are messes and some are astonishing." Born in New York on April 22, 1943, Gluck grew up on Long Island. Her father invented the X-acto knife. She has a younger sister, Tereze, who is a Manhattan banker today. As a girl, Louise Gluck began writing poetry. She also became severely anorexic. "I was dangerously dysfunctional," she said. She found salvation on the couch of a psychoanalyst. She attended Sarah Lawrence College for a couple of months and Columbia University for awhile, but never received a degree. "I was too frightened to leave my doctor," she said. But psychoanalysis began to work for her. "Psychoanalysis was one of the great experiences of my life. It helps me live and it taught me to think." She added: "I gradually moved out of a very private and controlled world and into a richer world of friendship and love and event." One of her best friends is former poet laureate Robert Pinsky, whom she talks to nearly every day. She has published nine volumes of poetry. She won the Pulitzer Prize in 1993 for "The Wild Iris." She also won the National Book Critics Circle Award for her 1985 work "The Triumph of Achilles' and she has won a host of other prizes and honors including Guggenheims, NEA grants and the Bollingen Prize. In 1994 she published "Proofs and Theories: Essays on Poetry." In the fall, Sarabande Books will publish "October," a poem in six parts that appeared in the New Yorker last year. A professor at Williams College since 1983, she lives in Cambridge by herself. She teaches one semester a year. She makes the three hour commute once a week and she has been staying with the same family in Williamstown for nearly 20 years. She has two ex-husbands and a son, Noah, 30, who is a sommelier in San Francisco. Gluck said she likes a little wine herself every now and then. A Chateau Pavie cheval blanc is her preference. Here's an excerpt from her 1986 poem, "Siren": I became a criminal when I fell in love. Before that I was a waitress. I didn't want to go to Chicago with you. I wanted to marry you, I wanted Your wife to suffer. I wanted her life to be like a play In which all the parts are sad parts. Does a good person Think this way? I deserve Credit for my courage . . . She doesn't write every day. "I never have the faintest idea when I'm going to be writing," she said. "I sometimes write in seizures. I wrote three of my books very, very rapidly." Gluck believes that "you just live your life and you hope that some poem demands to be written." She added, "The worst thing I can do is just sit at a desk. It makes me anxious beyond words." She will kick off the library's reading series on Oct. 21 by reading from her own poetry. As the library's poetry maven, Gluck follows in the footsteps of great poets such as Randall Jarrell, Robert Frost, Robert Penn Warren, Richard Wilbur, Rita Dove and Pinsky, who will read at the library on Oct. 22. Gluck "is always a few jumps ahead of the cliche," Pinsky said. He has been struck by her "ruthless breathtaking originality." Billy Collins praised the library for "its relative ability to include both sexes" in its appointments. He noted that Great Britain has had a poet laureateship for more than 300 years and has never appointed a woman. He said, "The thing that poets need to do is avoid writing 'Poetry' with a capital P and in quotation marks. When we read a fresh voice like Louise Gluck's, we see that something new is going on. It's that stepping out from convention that makes her poetry exciting." Her poetry, he said, "is really the release of accumulated misery." Collins added, "I think of her as being like a masseuse-chiropractor who is able to find pain centers. Her poetry is often concerned with detecting centers of psychic pain." From tadrichards at prodigy.net Thu Aug 28 18:10:27 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:10:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate References: <3F4E19CA.15.1B4F4AC@localhost> Message-ID: <004001c36db1$305ee430$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> > > > Just heard that Louise Gluck has been named the nation's new Poet Laureate. > > > What do y'all think of the pick? > > > Paul Lake > > > It seems to me that Louise Gluck > > Is a totally appropriate pick. > > Sam Gwynn > > Most of the country, on seeing that Gluck, > Will say Louise has got the luck. > > > > Marcus Bales > Louise Gluck? Who gives a .... Sorry, couldn't resist. She has the credentials - to the extent that it's an honor, a recognition of a deserving poet, she deserves it. To the extent that it's a public position - that we hope the Laureate will do something to enhance the public awareness of poetry...we'll wait and see. I like Gluck's poetry, have never been able to read her prose, so I hope her mass communication skills are better than what she's shown in her essays. Tad From MIM47 at aol.com Fri Aug 29 01:19:37 2003 From: MIM47 at aol.com (MIM47 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:19:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #1653 - 3 msgs Message-ID: <9.17ebea6c.2c803c69@aol.com> I happen to know for a fact that Dana Gioia is working to find ways, navigating AROUND Sacramento if need be, for CA artists to get grants. He said this pointedly at a gathering in Sant Rosa in July. We need to be patient as he figures it out in a way that will funnel money to this state and its great art community. Carol Bachofner From wjbat at conncoll.edu Fri Aug 29 08:26:39 2003 From: wjbat at conncoll.edu (Wendy Battin) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:26:39 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <07761F93.50F4ED81.001A46F6@aol.com> Message-ID: <0A568EC7-DA1C-11D7-8D7F-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 04:33 PM, Thom424 at aol.com wrote: > Her father invented the X-acto knife. And she's been using it with great skill ever since. Wendy Wendy Battin wjbat at conncoll.edu From grahamd at ripon.edu Fri Aug 29 11:07:57 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:07:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <0A568EC7-DA1C-11D7-8D7F-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> Message-ID: I confess that feel about Louise Gluck as many did about Billy Collins: yawn. Haven't kept up with her work in many books, so I should be careful about generalizing too much, but I've often wondered why so many folks were so keen on her. Her language often strikes me as fairly flat. Anyone care to spin that thread? For any others who haven't been reading her recent work avidly, I will mention a web site I just found that has quite a large sampling of poems online: http://www.artstomp.com/gluck/reading.htm The Academy of American Poets site has more, too: http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?45442B7C000C0E06 ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== > From: Wendy Battin > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:26:39 -0400 > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate > > > On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 04:33 PM, Thom424 at aol.com wrote: >> Her father invented the X-acto knife. > > And she's been using it with great skill ever since. > > > Wendy > > > > Wendy Battin > wjbat at conncoll.edu > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Fri Aug 29 11:27:34 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:27:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: References: <0A568EC7-DA1C-11D7-8D7F-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030829101359.01ae11a0@mail.ilstu.edu> It strikes me that the best poet laureate would be someone about whom people could argue and disagree viciously. If the laureate is considered boring or blah, what point is there in having such a poet as laureate? To show another generation of kids that poetry is boring and blah? The political modes inherent behind Poetry Society of American, Academy of American Poets, etc, is that poetry is nice, poets are nice, poetry audiences are nice. These societies give "awards," when in fact, considering the way many poets choose to write, poets should be given "medals," given that many choose to write in ways idiolectic, needling, hectoring, braying, cajoling, challenging, frustrating, polemical, jeremiacal, or just otherwise nonplussing -- While Still upholding their ancient duties of benediction and malediction, praise and blame, comfort and affliction. In a political economy of consumption, we cannot understand the value of argument or spiritual challenge as a cultural force. We understand only Niceness, something that'll go down the throat like yoghurt. Just some thoughts this morning in the first rain central Illinois's seen in weeks. At 10:07 AM 8/29/2003 -0500, David Graham wrote: >I confess that feel about Louise Gluck as many did about Billy Collins: >yawn. Haven't kept up with her work in many books, so I should be careful >about generalizing too much, but I've often wondered why so many folks were >so keen on her. Her language often strikes me as fairly flat. > >Anyone care to spin that thread? > >For any others who haven't been reading her recent work avidly, I will >mention a web site I just found that has quite a large sampling of poems >online: > >http://www.artstomp.com/gluck/reading.htm > >The Academy of American Poets site has more, too: > >http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?45442B7C000C0E06 > >==================================================== >David Graham >grahamd at ripon.edu >Home Page: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >Poetry Library: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >==================================================== > > > > From: Wendy Battin > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:26:39 -0400 > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate > > > > > > On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 04:33 PM, Thom424 at aol.com wrote: > >> Her father invented the X-acto knife. > > > > And she's been using it with great skill ever since. > > > > > > Wendy > > > > > > > > Wendy Battin > > wjbat at conncoll.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu Fri Aug 29 11:30:49 2003 From: Edward.Byrne at valpo.edu (Edward Byrne) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:30:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I first heard Louise Gluck read in the 1970s when I was a student and her first book was published. I remember her as an attractive, but seemingly shy young woman. Her reading barely rose above the whisper level and her voice was quite breathy. I've admired some of her poetry, but have been puzzled by the excitement some others have expressed for her work. Like David, I have found her language sometimes "flat." However, I'm sure, like David, that is possibly because I haven't yet given her work the greater attention I should. Gluck has a reputation for being private, shy, and avoiding public attention. That is what struck me the most when I heard the news about Gluck. It seems to me that a successful Poet Laureate has to be more outgoing and willing to step into the public spotlight. I'll be curious to see how Gluck handles all the attention. --Ed -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:07:57 -0500 David Graham wrote: > I confess that feel about Louise Gluck as many did about Billy Collins: > yawn. Haven't kept up with her work in many books, so I should be careful > about generalizing too much, but I've often wondered why so many folks were > so keen on her. Her language often strikes me as fairly flat. > > Anyone care to spin that thread? > > For any others who haven't been reading her recent work avidly, I will > mention a web site I just found that has quite a large sampling of poems > online: > > http://www.artstomp.com/gluck/reading.htm > > The Academy of American Poets site has more, too: > > http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?45442B7C000C0E06 > > ==================================================== > David Graham > grahamd at ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ==================================================== > > > > From: Wendy Battin > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:26:39 -0400 > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate > > > > > > On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 04:33 PM, Thom424 at aol.com wrote: > >> Her father invented the X-acto knife. > > > > And she's been using it with great skill ever since. > > > > > > Wendy > > > > > > > > Wendy Battin > > wjbat at conncoll.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Aug 29 11:43:43 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:43:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate References: <0A568EC7-DA1C-11D7-8D7F-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> <5.1.1.6.0.20030829101359.01ae11a0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <005f01c36e44$53d14140$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Gabe - I'd disagree - not in general - I approve of poets about whom people can argue and disagree viciously - but for poet laureate. I think a public position like that is probably best filled by someone from the mainstream - and I don't believe that has to mean boring or blah. The ideal laureate should be someone who has some real ideas about making poetry a significant part of our national public discourse, is willing to devote time and energy to that task, is a brilliant poet, accomplished in both form and free verse -- and it's probably best if that person is undeservedly obscure and could use the career boost. In short...me. Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Gudding" To: Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate > It strikes me that the best poet laureate would be someone about whom > people could argue and disagree viciously. > > If the laureate is considered boring or blah, what point is there in having > such a poet as laureate? To show another generation of kids that poetry is > boring and blah? > > The political modes inherent behind Poetry Society of American, Academy of > American Poets, etc, is that poetry is nice, poets are nice, poetry > audiences are nice. These societies give "awards," when in fact, > considering the way many poets choose to write, poets should be given > "medals," given that many choose to write in ways idiolectic, needling, > hectoring, braying, cajoling, challenging, frustrating, polemical, > jeremiacal, or just otherwise nonplussing -- While Still upholding their > ancient duties of benediction and malediction, praise and blame, comfort > and affliction. > > In a political economy of consumption, we cannot understand the value of > argument or spiritual challenge as a cultural force. We understand only > Niceness, something that'll go down the throat like yoghurt. > > Just some thoughts this morning in the first rain central Illinois's seen > in weeks. > > At 10:07 AM 8/29/2003 -0500, David Graham wrote: > >I confess that feel about Louise Gluck as many did about Billy Collins: > >yawn. Haven't kept up with her work in many books, so I should be careful > >about generalizing too much, but I've often wondered why so many folks were > >so keen on her. Her language often strikes me as fairly flat. > > > >Anyone care to spin that thread? > > > >For any others who haven't been reading her recent work avidly, I will > >mention a web site I just found that has quite a large sampling of poems > >online: > > > >http://www.artstomp.com/gluck/reading.htm > > > >The Academy of American Poets site has more, too: > > > >http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?45442B7C000C0E06 > > > >==================================================== > >David Graham > >grahamd at ripon.edu > >Home Page: > >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > >Poetry Library: > >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > >==================================================== > > > > > > > From: Wendy Battin > > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:26:39 -0400 > > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 04:33 PM, Thom424 at aol.com wrote: > > >> Her father invented the X-acto knife. > > > > > > And she's been using it with great skill ever since. > > > > > > > > > Wendy > > > > > > > > > > > > Wendy Battin > > > wjbat at conncoll.edu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From paul.lake at mail.atu.edu Fri Aug 29 11:46:21 2003 From: paul.lake at mail.atu.edu (Paul Lake) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:46:21 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate Message-ID: Never realized this before, till reading this. Gluck doesn't have a college degree but does have a professorship. Last time I noted that was the case during the poet laureate flap with Qunicy Troupe in California, it turned out that he didn't have a degree either, but said he did, and his subsequently been forced to resign his position. By contrast, Gluck is upfront about her lack of credentials. >As a girl, Louise Gluck began writing poetry. She also became severely anorexic. "I was dangerously dysfunctional," she said. She found salvation on the couch of a psychoanalyst. She attended Sarah Lawrence College for a couple of months and Columbia University for awhile, but never received a degree. Paul Lake --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From simon at ipfw.edu Fri Aug 29 12:07:08 2003 From: simon at ipfw.edu (Beth Simon) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:07:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate Message-ID: The first of the Lannan videotape series is the vid of Louise Gluck. She reads from each of the four books, with sections of a one-on-one interview interspersed. The video was made in 1986. If you have access to it, in your collection or, if you're on a campus, through document delivery, it's very worth checking out. I watched it last night. beth beth lee simon associate professor, linguistics and english indiana university purdue university fort wayne, in 46805-1499 u.s. voice 011-01-260 481 6761; fax 011-01-260 481 6985 email simon at ipfw.edu From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Aug 29 12:12:31 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:12:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate Message-ID: <22.3d37a395.2c80d56f@cs.com> In a message dated 8/29/2003 10:08:54 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > Her language often strikes me as fairly flat. > > Anyone care to spin that thread? I reviewed Ararat some years back and listed a bunch of the flattest opening lines I'd ever seen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Fri Aug 29 12:13:49 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:13:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate Message-ID: <11d.2589e393.2c80d5bd@cs.com> In a message dated 8/29/2003 10:46:40 AM Central Daylight Time, tadrichards at prodigy.net writes: > The ideal laureate should be someone who has some real ideas about making > poetry a significant part of our national public discourse, is willing to > devote time and energy to that task, is a brilliant poet, accomplished in > both form and free verse -- and it's probably best if that person is > undeservedly obscure and could use the career boost. > > In short...me. > > > Tad In short . . . me, that is. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Fri Aug 29 13:07:19 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:07:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <005f01c36e44$53d14140$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> References: <0A568EC7-DA1C-11D7-8D7F-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> <5.1.1.6.0.20030829101359.01ae11a0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030829112711.01b9a638@mail.ilstu.edu> Hi Tad, Thanks for your response. I wonder, though, given that "our national public discourse" is generally in fact about contest, contention, things contested -- such as elections or the contest of war, violence, or the contest of the market, in which one has "gains" and "losses" such that "our national public discourse" is often not only about but is composed of contest, I wonder how anything but contest can become part of a discourse of contest. The very etymology and esp. the early use of "discourse" implies argument. The nearest a poet recently came to being a part of our national public discourse, it was Baraka, I'd guess, with the NJ Laureateship and "Somebody Blew Up America." It was a story of poetry in contest. The US laureateship doesn't seem to be about entering public discourse. If it did, it would not shrink from controversy. Instead it seems more about indoctrinating the lessons of intellectual and emotional and spiritual passivity. Billy Collins wanted to get 180 poems into the schools, to get 180 recent poems into *one* curricular canon. That was considered a great project. To get 90 million children reading 180 poems. Wow. That's not controversial, that doesn't get people thinking, just agreeing, in the same thought-busting way that all rhetoric does that seeks to dovetail with the win-win political rhetoric of bettering schools. Even George W. Bush can do that. The only reason that Bush's rhetoric stays in the the public discourse is because everybody contests the fact that (1) his track record shows that he's honest about htatand (2) whether it's feasible in the first place. Gabe At 11:43 AM 8/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Gabe - I'd disagree - not in general - I approve of poets about whom people >can argue and disagree viciously - but for poet laureate. > >I think a public position like that is probably best filled by someone from >the mainstream - and I don't believe that has to mean boring or blah. > >The ideal laureate should be someone who has some real ideas about making >poetry a significant part of our national public discourse, is willing to >devote time and energy to that task, is a brilliant poet, accomplished in >both form and free verse -- and it's probably best if that person is >undeservedly obscure and could use the career boost. > >In short...me. > > >Tad > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gabriel Gudding" >To: >Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 11:27 AM >Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate > > > > It strikes me that the best poet laureate would be someone about whom > > people could argue and disagree viciously. > > > > If the laureate is considered boring or blah, what point is there in >having > > such a poet as laureate? To show another generation of kids that poetry is > > boring and blah? > > > > The political modes inherent behind Poetry Society of American, Academy of > > American Poets, etc, is that poetry is nice, poets are nice, poetry > > audiences are nice. These societies give "awards," when in fact, > > considering the way many poets choose to write, poets should be given > > "medals," given that many choose to write in ways idiolectic, needling, > > hectoring, braying, cajoling, challenging, frustrating, polemical, > > jeremiacal, or just otherwise nonplussing -- While Still upholding their > > ancient duties of benediction and malediction, praise and blame, comfort > > and affliction. > > > > In a political economy of consumption, we cannot understand the value of > > argument or spiritual challenge as a cultural force. We understand only > > Niceness, something that'll go down the throat like yoghurt. > > > > Just some thoughts this morning in the first rain central Illinois's seen > > in weeks. > > > > At 10:07 AM 8/29/2003 -0500, David Graham wrote: > > >I confess that feel about Louise Gluck as many did about Billy Collins: > > >yawn. Haven't kept up with her work in many books, so I should be >careful > > >about generalizing too much, but I've often wondered why so many folks >were > > >so keen on her. Her language often strikes me as fairly flat. > > > > > >Anyone care to spin that thread? > > > > > >For any others who haven't been reading her recent work avidly, I will > > >mention a web site I just found that has quite a large sampling of poems > > >online: > > > > > >http://www.artstomp.com/gluck/reading.htm > > > > > >The Academy of American Poets site has more, too: > > > > > >http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?45442B7C000C0E06 > > > > > >==================================================== > > >David Graham > > >grahamd at ripon.edu > > >Home Page: > > >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > >Poetry Library: > > >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > >==================================================== > > > > > > > > > > From: Wendy Battin > > > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:26:39 -0400 > > > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 04:33 PM, Thom424 at aol.com wrote: > > > >> Her father invented the X-acto knife. > > > > > > > > And she's been using it with great skill ever since. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wendy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wendy Battin > > > > wjbat at conncoll.edu > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >New-Poetry mailing list > > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Aug 29 14:20:42 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:20:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: <22.3d37a395.2c80d56f@cs.com> Message-ID: <00b601c36e5a$41e5b130$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Sam - can you post an excerpt? ----- Original Message ----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate In a message dated 8/29/2003 10:08:54 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: Her language often strikes me as fairly flat. Anyone care to spin that thread? I reviewed Ararat some years back and listed a bunch of the flattest opening lines I'd ever seen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Aug 29 14:21:32 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:21:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate References: <11d.2589e393.2c80d5bd@cs.com> Message-ID: <00c001c36e5a$5fef0dc0$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> b ----- Original Message ----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate In a message dated 8/29/2003 10:46:40 AM Central Daylight Time, tadrichards at prodigy.net writes: The ideal laureate should be someone who has some real ideas about making poetry a significant part of our national public discourse, is willing to devote time and energy to that task, is a brilliant poet, accomplished in both form and free verse -- and it's probably best if that person is undeservedly obscure and could use the career boost. In short...me. Tad In short . . . me, that is. Sam Well, I was almost right. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu Fri Aug 29 14:31:10 2003 From: rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu (Richard Wilsnack) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:31:10 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <11d.2589e393.2c80d5bd@cs.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030829132625.026854a0@medicine.nodak.edu> Writing largely out of ignorance about Louise Gluck as a person, except for what has been shared on this list, is there any possibility that she was chosen during this particular administration because this administration guessed that she was *not* likely to make waves, and *not* likely to push other people in the administration very hard in any direction they did not want to go (like toward spending more money on poets/poetry) ? (There. That sentence should be long enough for at least the semifinals of the Bulwer-Lyttons). Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Aug 29 14:25:22 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:25:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate References: <0A568EC7-DA1C-11D7-8D7F-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> <5.1.1.6.0.20030829101359.01ae11a0@mail.ilstu.edu> <5.1.1.6.0.20030829112711.01b9a638@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <00e601c36e5a$e8e946e0$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Billy Collins' project was dumb. I liked Pinsky's, though, and particularly Hass's. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gabriel Gudding To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate Hi Tad, Thanks for your response. I wonder, though, given that "our national public discourse" is generally in fact about contest, contention, things contested -- such as elections or the contest of war, violence, or the contest of the market, in which one has "gains" and "losses" such that "our national public discourse" is often not only about but is composed of contest, I wonder how anything but contest can become part of a discourse of contest. The very etymology and esp. the early use of "discourse" implies argument. The nearest a poet recently came to being a part of our national public discourse, it was Baraka, I'd guess, with the NJ Laureateship and "Somebody Blew Up America." It was a story of poetry in contest. The US laureateship doesn't seem to be about entering public discourse. If it did, it would not shrink from controversy. Instead it seems more about indoctrinating the lessons of intellectual and emotional and spiritual passivity. Billy Collins wanted to get 180 poems into the schools, to get 180 recent poems into *one* curricular canon. That was considered a great project. To get 90 million children reading 180 poems. Wow. That's not controversial, that doesn't get people thinking, just agreeing, in the same thought-busting way that all rhetoric does that seeks to dovetail with the win-win political rhetoric of bettering schools. Even George W. Bush can do that. The only reason that Bush's rhetoric stays in the the public discourse is because everybody contests the fact that (1) his track record shows that he's honest about htatand (2) whether it's feasible in the first place. Gabe At 11:43 AM 8/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: Gabe - I'd disagree - not in general - I approve of poets about whom people can argue and disagree viciously - but for poet laureate. I think a public position like that is probably best filled by someone from the mainstream - and I don't believe that has to mean boring or blah. The ideal laureate should be someone who has some real ideas about making poetry a significant part of our national public discourse, is willing to devote time and energy to that task, is a brilliant poet, accomplished in both form and free verse -- and it's probably best if that person is undeservedly obscure and could use the career boost. In short...me. Tad ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Gudding" To: Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate > It strikes me that the best poet laureate would be someone about whom > people could argue and disagree viciously. > > If the laureate is considered boring or blah, what point is there in having > such a poet as laureate? To show another generation of kids that poetry is > boring and blah? > > The political modes inherent behind Poetry Society of American, Academy of > American Poets, etc, is that poetry is nice, poets are nice, poetry > audiences are nice. These societies give "awards," when in fact, > considering the way many poets choose to write, poets should be given > "medals," given that many choose to write in ways idiolectic, needling, > hectoring, braying, cajoling, challenging, frustrating, polemical, > jeremiacal, or just otherwise nonplussing -- While Still upholding their > ancient duties of benediction and malediction, praise and blame, comfort > and affliction. > > In a political economy of consumption, we cannot understand the value of > argument or spiritual challenge as a cultural force. We understand only > Niceness, something that'll go down the throat like yoghurt. > > Just some thoughts this morning in the first rain central Illinois's seen > in weeks. > > At 10:07 AM 8/29/2003 -0500, David Graham wrote: > >I confess that feel about Louise Gluck as many did about Billy Collins: > >yawn. Haven't kept up with her work in many books, so I should be careful > >about generalizing too much, but I've often wondered why so many folks were > >so keen on her. Her language often strikes me as fairly flat. > > > >Anyone care to spin that thread? > > > >For any others who haven't been reading her recent work avidly, I will > >mention a web site I just found that has quite a large sampling of poems > >online: > > > >http://www.artstomp.com/gluck/reading.htm > > > >The Academy of American Poets site has more, too: > > > >http://www.poets.org/poets/poets.cfm?45442B7C000C0E06 > > > >==================================================== > >David Graham > >grahamd at ripon.edu > >Home Page: > >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > >Poetry Library: > >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > >==================================================== > > > > > > > From: Wendy Battin > > > Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 08:26:39 -0400 > > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 04:33 PM, Thom424 at aol.com wrote: > > >> Her father invented the X-acto knife. > > > > > > And she's been using it with great skill ever since. > > > > > > > > > Wendy > > > > > > > > > > > > Wendy Battin > > > wjbat at conncoll.edu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > >_______________________________________________ > >New-Poetry mailing list > >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Fri Aug 29 15:45:51 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:45:51 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate References: <0A568EC7-DA1C-11D7-8D7F-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> <5.1.1.6.0.20030829101359.01ae11a0@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: <006501c36e66$281ec2d0$5743e589@TECH> If only Collins had stirred up as much debate with his actions as Poet Laureate as his poetry seems able to inspire among the newpoetry crowd. I didn't think his project was dumb... but while being sincere, it was not just bland, but ultimately too *small*. A good PL would try to shake things up, get some attention, think big, ruffle some feathers, inspire some controversy, sound barbaric yawps, whatever. I had no problem at all with poems being read over the PA at my daughter's elementary school, but that was IT? c From tadrichards at prodigy.net Fri Aug 29 16:25:48 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (tadrichards at prodigy.net) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:25:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate Message-ID: <48270-22003852920254822@M2W085.mail2web.com> It felt to me like Collins kinda thought he ought to something, but he didn't want to give it too much thought or put too much effort into it. I preferred Kunitz' honest statement that he thought the best thing he could for poetry would be to continue to write it. Given the general dearth of powerful nonegenarian poetry, that made sense. Tad Original Message: ----------------- From: Chris Lott chris at chrislott.org Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:45:51 -0800 To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate If only Collins had stirred up as much debate with his actions as Poet Laureate as his poetry seems able to inspire among the newpoetry crowd. I didn't think his project was dumb... but while being sincere, it was not just bland, but ultimately too *small*. A good PL would try to shake things up, get some attention, think big, ruffle some feathers, inspire some controversy, sound barbaric yawps, whatever. I had no problem at all with poems being read over the PA at my daughter's elementary school, but that was IT? c _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Fri Aug 29 16:42:48 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:42:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate References: <0A568EC7-DA1C-11D7-8D7F-000A9573C758@conncoll.edu> <5.1.1.6.0.20030829101359.01ae11a0@mail.ilstu.edu> <005f01c36e44$53d14140$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <013101c36e6e$1c6bf180$e0eefea9@j1c1k6> > > I think a public position like that is probably best filled by someone from > the mainstream I would agree fi the name of the position were not "Poet Laureate," which suggests poet of high caliber. National Poetry Secretary. I don't think we should have a poet laureate because those who have the judgement to choose a reasonably appropriate best poet would never be allowed to. --Bob G. From gmguddi at ilstu.edu Fri Aug 29 18:30:19 2003 From: gmguddi at ilstu.edu (Gabriel Gudding) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:30:19 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030829145749.01b1d988@mail.ilstu.edu> Further, I wonder to what degree, and in what sense, a poetry which has so long carried the ideology of private emotionalism, private speech and private sentiment, as American (and much of current Western late-romantic) poetries have for so long -- how such a poetry, which is about the private [*vide infra], can truly be a part of the polis, of the discourse of the polis. Especially if we also consider the passivity that mainstream American pedagogy demands of its students as cultural consumers, the passive reception of poetry by a mostly boggled and bored audience. For if, as Aristotle said, that to be fully human means to engage in the life of the polis, then what does it mean to have a poet who embodies the ideologies of insular emotionalism and possessive individualism in a public position? The Greek root for "idiot" meant a private person. Can America truly have a public poet if that poet writes a poetry of the private? * Hughes Mearns ("poetry is when you talk to yourself") to Diane Wakoski in 1973 ("It is talking to yourself in the kitchen. But if it speaks to one person, then it is a poem") to Delmore Schwartz ("Like some tormented figure in a myth, Delmore Schwartz acted out in his life, as he wrote of it in poems and stories, the alienation of the poet from our society") to Dave Smith in 1975 ("We live in an isolation within ourselves and with ourselves, a total and terrible isolation, because we cannot and are not, parted from the womb, truly a part of any other") back to Mearns ("[W]e drive them back upon themselves, drive them to search within, a boundless field and rich beyond expectation") to Russell Edson in 1975 ("One comes to the writing table with one's own hidden life....") to Frank Bidart in 1983 ("I knew that Lowell's experience of the world he came from, and himself as an actor in it [sic], was very different from my experience"); and finally to Derek Walcott in an interview with David Montenegro in 1987 ( "I've always wondered about the sense of isolation of the American poets that is so acute in contemporary American poetry....How come there was such adulation and yet such isolation at the same time?)" -- from "Petit to Langp: a History of Solipsism and Experience in Mainstream American Poetry Since the Rise of Creative Writing" __________________________________________________ Gabriel Gudding, Asst Prof of English, Illinois State University www.antiwar.com (probably the most useful, thorough, and frequently updated of the urls pertaining to US foreign policy -- also one of the most credible of the avowedly anti-war right-wing websites) http://www.truthout.org (stories exclusively from mainstream media -- for this reason, a very interesting website) http://www.commondreams.org/ (this compilation website is subtitled "breaking news and views for the progressive community") http://www.buzzflash.com/ (very earnest and sometimes annoying abstracts but generally the most sedulously updated website I frequent) http://www.legitgov.org/ (*very* annoying abstracts and profoundly left-bias to this website, but useful stories) http://www1.iraqwar.ru/?userlang=en (a Russian website rumored to be maintained by Russian intelligence. During the major combat in Iraq, this webste provided reports based on US-UK military radio communications. Sometimes carries and duplicates journalist pieces from western sources. Also interesting in that it provides reader-feedback sections. This feedback is often very caustic in its criticisms of the US invasion of Iraq and of US policy toward Israel and its occupation of Palestine.) www.indymedia.org (Independent media source, cooperative. Broke the story, eg, with photographs, of how staged the toppling of the Saddam statue after the "liberation") http://www.newamericancentury.org/ (this policy website is run by the Project for the New American Century, a "neo-con" organization with strong political and business and policy ties to the Bush administration. If you want to know what the administration is thinking or where it's going, this is a good place to start.) www.onpower.org (a compendium of articles and bibliographic material about how US foreign market and military interests have been advanced by the advent and creation of national "crises" -- more of a thinktank website than a news source, but topical and germane) http://www.aljazeerah.info/ (an online English version of Al Jazeera, the news source out of Qatar, which has won several prestigious international awards for its journalism [eg, a recent "anti-censorship award" called the "Freedom of Expression Award" given by the London-based Index on Censorship]. Of itself it says, "Your Gateway to Understanding the world system, American Foreign Policy, and the Arab and Muslim Worlds ..." Very interesting source.) http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/index.htm (Associated Press breaking news. Some of these stories are later picked up by newspapers and are then altered by those newspapers. Sometimes it's interesting to note how newspapers alter the stories. For instance, just a few days ago the New York Times removed some statistics from an online story about how many US soldiers have been wounded in Iraq since the US invaded the country) --"That there are men in all countries who get their living by war, and by keeping up the quarrels of nations, is as shocking as it is true; but when those who are concerned in the government of a country, make it their study to sow discord, and cultivate prejudices between nations, it becomes the more unpardonable." -- Thomas Paine, "The Rights of Man", circa 1792 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From MIM47 at aol.com Fri Aug 29 23:50:17 2003 From: MIM47 at aol.com (MIM47 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:50:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Gluck.. yeah or yuck? Message-ID: <15e.24895ad1.2c8178f9@aol.com> I will spin that thread, David. I think that her poetry is pretty boring. I wonder what all the fuss is about there too. I read her prize-winning collection lo the many years ago when it won and I sat for days with a puzzled look on my face. Flat, boring, easy, predictable. Not a bit of fresh turf broken there. Yet we see her as some icon of grass roots-ism as she is taught in college and university classrooms by the metric ton! She will not be in my syllabus. There are so many truly exciting poets writing today. Why the big deal over her? Yawn. Carol Bachofner From grahamd at ripon.edu Sat Aug 30 00:44:51 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:44:51 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030829145749.01b1d988@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: I'll admit that my pulse doesn't race much to the question of who our latest poet laureate might be, and I'll probably survive Gluck's laureateship as I survived Stanley Kunitz's (did he do anything?). Still, here's a thought: if I were choosing, I might select (right after Tad Richards's and Sam Gwynn's terms of office were complete)-- Wendell Berry. Why? Oh, just to illustrate that binaries like "nice" and "subversive," "private" and "public" often seem a bit too simple. As if a poet could not be both/and, as I think Berry is. And perhaps to illustrate also that a mainstream aesthetic does not necessarily equate with mindlessness, passivity, and so forth. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Aug 30 01:10:41 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:10:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate Message-ID: <30.45e409d1.2c818bd1@cs.com> In a message dated 8/29/2003 1:21:38 PM Central Daylight Time, tadrichards at prodigy.net writes: > > Sam - can you post an excerpt? > Tad, it was about 15 years ago, and I don't think I can locate the review now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Aug 30 01:17:04 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:17:04 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate Message-ID: <165.24801a83.2c818d50@cs.com> In a message dated 8/29/2003 11:45:55 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > Still, here's a thought: if I were choosing, I might select (right after > Tad Richards's and Sam Gwynn's terms of office were complete)-- Wendell > Berry. > > Why? Oh, just to illustrate that binaries like "nice" and "subversive," > "private" and "public" often seem a bit too simple. As if a poet could not > be both/and, as I think Berry is. And perhaps to illustrate also that a > mainstream aesthetic does not necessarily equate with mindlessness, > passivity, and so forth. I applaud this selection (after Tad and me, of course), but I suspect Mr. Berry would generously decline the honor. I would suggest X. J. Kennedy as an alternate. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 30 06:55:20 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 06:55:20 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: <165.24801a83.2c818d50@cs.com> Message-ID: <007401c36ee5$35547740$6541fea9@j1c1k6> Would you guys be opposed to allowing one non-mainstream poet every twenty years be laureate? --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Aug 30 13:08:17 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:08:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate Message-ID: <48.217fbc05.2c823401@cs.com> In a message dated 8/30/2003 5:57:01 AM Central Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: > Would you guys be opposed to allowing one non-mainstream poet every twenty > years be laureate? > > --Bob G. > Hey, we already had Stanley Kunitz! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards at prodigy.net Sat Aug 30 13:59:13 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:59:13 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: <48.217fbc05.2c823401@cs.com> Message-ID: <003101c36f20$6bd5dbc0$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> What about Ferlinghetti as poet laureate? ----- Original Message ----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate In a message dated 8/30/2003 5:57:01 AM Central Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Would you guys be opposed to allowing one non-mainstream poet every twenty years be laureate? --Bob G. Hey, we already had Stanley Kunitz! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 30 14:26:56 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:26:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: <48.217fbc05.2c823401@cs.com> Message-ID: <01b001c36f24$4bd71b00$6541fea9@j1c1k6> Would you guys be opposed to allowing one non-mainstream poet every twenty years be laureate? --Bob G. Hey, we already had Stanley Kunitz! Oops, forgot about him. --Bob G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sat Aug 30 14:31:35 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:31:35 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: <48.217fbc05.2c823401@cs.com> <003101c36f20$6bd5dbc0$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Message-ID: <01d401c36f24$f22f5580$6541fea9@j1c1k6> I meant non-mainstream for OUR time, not for fifty years ago. Ferlinghetti would certainly make as good a laureate as any other we've recently had, though. --Bob G. What about Ferlinghetti as poet laureate? ----- Original Message ----- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate In a message dated 8/30/2003 5:57:01 AM Central Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: Would you guys be opposed to allowing one non-mainstream poet every twenty years be laureate? --Bob G. Hey, we already had Stanley Kunitz! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sat Aug 30 16:56:24 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:56:24 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: <48.217fbc05.2c823401@cs.com> <01b001c36f24$4bd71b00$6541fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <027901c36f39$2ff6d370$6401a8c0@disted.uaf.edu> Kunitz isn't mainstream? By what criteria (regarding his poetry, that is)? c From wjbat at conncoll.edu Sat Aug 30 10:38:56 2003 From: wjbat at conncoll.edu (Wendy Battin) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:38:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030829145749.01b1d988@mail.ilstu.edu> Message-ID: >> The Greek root for ?idiot? meant a private person. And the signs around Athens for idiotiki parking transcend linguistic boundaries. But this is very curious. I can't recall ever hearing either Gluck or her poetry accused of being "nice" before. And to say that she's a "private person" in this country means that she doesn't wish to be consumed as a celebrity, not that she doesn't participate in the life of the polis. (It's also polite code for "difficult" and "unsociable.") Her poetry, on the other hand, is not at all private. She deals with psyche and relationship, yes, but she's quite ruthless in stripping away the personal--why someone like Collins finds her so forbidding. I haven't been as thrilled by any of her later books as I was by _The House on Marshland_ back in the mid-70's, but I could say the same about most of the poets I devoured as a student. Wendy Wendy Battin wjbat at conncoll.edu On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 06:30 PM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > Further, I wonder to what degree, and in what sense, a poetry which > has so long carried the ideology of private emotionalism, private > speech and private sentiment, as American (and much of current Western > late-romantic) poetries have for so long -- how such a poetry, which > is about the private [*vide infra], can truly be a part of the polis, > of the discourse of the polis. Especially if we also consider the > passivity that mainstream American pedagogy demands of its students as > cultural consumers, the passive reception of poetry by a mostly > boggled and bored audience. For if, as Aristotle said, that to be > fully human means to engage in the life of the polis, then what does > it mean to have a poet who embodies the ideologies of insular > emotionalism and possessive individualism in a public position? The > Greek root for ?idiot? meant a private person. > Can America truly have a public poet if that poet writes a poetry of > the private? > > > * Hughes Mearns ("poetry is when you talk to yourself")? to Diane > Wakoski in 1973 ("It is talking to yourself in the kitchen. But if it > speaks to one person, then it is a poem") to Delmore Schwartz ("Like > some tormented figure in a myth, Delmore Schwartz acted out in his > life, as he wrote of it in poems and stories, the alienation of the > poet from our society") to Dave Smith in 1975 ("We live in an > isolation within ourselves and with ourselves, a total and terrible > isolation, because we cannot and are not, parted from the womb, truly > a part of any other") back to Mearns ("[W]e drive them back upon > themselves, drive them to search within, a boundless field and rich > beyond expectation") to Russell Edson in 1975 ("One comes to the > writing table with one's own hidden life....")? to Frank Bidart in > 1983 ("I knew that Lowell's experience of the world he came from, and > himself as an actor in it [sic], was very different from my > experience");? and finally to Derek Walcott in an interview with David > Montenegro in 1987 ( "I've always wondered about the sense of > isolation of the American poets that is so acute in contemporary > American poetry....How come there was such adulation and yet such > isolation at the same time?)" -- from "Petit to Langp: a History of > Solipsism and Experience in Mainstream American Poetry Since the Rise > of Creative Writing" > > I have seen the builder of the house. --Gautama Buddha -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3530 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chris at chrislott.org Sat Aug 30 18:32:54 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:32:54 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: <48.217fbc05.2c823401@cs.com> <01b001c36f24$4bd71b00$6541fea9@j1c1k6> Message-ID: <001901c36f46$ab106c80$6401a8c0@disted.uaf.edu> On Saturday, August 30, 2003 10:26 AM [GMT+1=CET], Bob Grumman spake thusly: > Would you guys be opposed to allowing one non-mainstream poet > every twenty years be laureate? > > --Bob G. > > > Hey, we already had Stanley Kunitz! > > > > Oops, forgot about him. > > --Bob G. Bob let me know that I missed the joke. As I told him, the only jokes I consistently get are my own. Then again, one never can tell on this list. c From jvcervantes at earthlink.net Sat Aug 30 19:29:24 2003 From: jvcervantes at earthlink.net (James Cervantes) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:29:24 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet Laureate References: Message-ID: <3F513354.C9432D3@earthlink.net> Wendy Battin wrote: > > The Greek root for ?idiot? meant a private person. > > And the signs around Athens for idiotiki parking transcend linguistic boundaries. Thank you! Finally, I have the right sign for my driveway [my initial typo was "diveway"]. - Jim From cstroffo at earthlink.net Sat Aug 30 14:46:37 2003 From: cstroffo at earthlink.net (Chris Stroffolino ) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 18:46:37 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ad Hominem Message-ID: <200308310133.h7V1XflI026206@pimout3-ext.prodigy.net> Strange to invoke Aristotle as representative of the Greek ideal to which Mr. Gudding wishes to hold our laureates accountable Aristotle also wrote that the noblest death is in the service of one's country during a war (I'll say nothing about slaves Do you wish to apply the Hemlock? But seriously, Mr Gudding, what is this hard and fast line you draw between private and polis? Chris P.S. In German, the word for idiot is Depp. Is Johnny Depp a private person? > > > On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 06:30 PM, Gabriel Gudding wrote: > > Further, I wonder to what degree, and in what sense, a poetry which has so > long carried the ideology of private emotionalism, private speech and > private sentiment, as American (and much of current Western late-romantic) > poetries have for so long -- how such a poetry, which is about the private > [*vide infra], can truly be a part of the polis, of the discourse of the > polis. Especially if we also consider the passivity that mainstream > American pedagogy demands of its students as cultural consumers, the > passive reception of poetry by a mostly boggled and bored audience. For if, > as Aristotle said, that to be fully human means to engage in the life of > the polis, then what does it mean to have a poet who embodies the > ideologies of insular emotionalism and possessive individualism in a public > position? The Greek root for ?idiot? meant a private person. > > Can America truly have a public poet if that poet writes a poetry of the private? > > > * Hughes Mearns ("poetry is when you talk to yourself")? to Diane Wakoski > in 1973 ("It is talking to yourself in the kitchen. But if it speaks to one > person, then it is a poem") to Delmore Schwartz ("Like some tormented > figure in a myth, Delmore Schwartz acted out in his life, as he wrote of it > in poems and stories, the alienation of the poet from our society") to Dave > Smith in 1975 ("We live in an isolation within ourselves and with > ourselves, a total and terrible isolation, because we cannot and are not, > parted from the womb, truly a part of any other") back to Mearns ("[W]e > drive them back upon themselves, drive them to search within, a boundless > field and rich beyond expectation") to Russell Edson in 1975 ("One comes to > the writing table with one's own hidden life....")? to Frank Bidart in 1983 > ("I knew that Lowell's experience of the world he came from, and himself as > an actor in it [sic], was very different from my experience");? and finally > to Derek Walcott in an interview with David Montenegro in 1987 ( "I've > always wondered about the sense of isolation of the American poets that is > so acute in contemporary American poetry....How come there was such > adulation and yet such isolation at the same time?)" -- from "Petit to > Langp: a History of Solipsism and Experience in Mainstream American Poetry > Since the Rise of Creative Writing" > > > > > > I have seen the builder of the house. > --Gautama Buddha > From tadrichards at prodigy.net Sat Aug 30 21:51:33 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (TheOldMole) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:51:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: <48.217fbc05.2c823401@cs.com> <01b001c36f24$4bd71b00$6541fea9@j1c1k6> <001901c36f46$ab106c80$6401a8c0@disted.uaf.edu> Message-ID: <005201c36f62$67be0390$6501a8c0@nonerq60gu2nq2> Having just heard Naomi Shihab Nye read, I'll vote for her (after me and Sam, that is). From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Aug 30 23:40:13 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:40:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate Message-ID: In a message dated 8/30/2003 3:58:02 PM Central Daylight Time, chris at chrislott.org writes: > Kunitz isn't mainstream? By what criteria (regarding his poetry, that is)? > > c He was too old to be mainsteam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Aug 30 23:41:42 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:41:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate Message-ID: In a message dated 8/30/2003 5:34:06 PM Central Daylight Time, chris at chrislott.org writes: > > Bob let me know that I missed the joke. As I told him, the only jokes I > consistently get are my own. Then again, one never can tell on this list. > > c Over your head, again. S -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sat Aug 30 23:45:19 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:45:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate Message-ID: <157.23cdb2f6.2c82c94f@cs.com> In a message dated 8/30/2003 8:52:59 PM Central Daylight Time, tadrichards at prodigy.net writes: > > Having just heard Naomi Shihab Nye read, I'll vote for her (after me and > Sam, that is). Naomi would be a good choice, in my book. Vive la Texas. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard at earthlink.net Sat Aug 30 23:56:46 2003 From: halvard at earthlink.net (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:56:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Gregory Corso, "Poets Hitchhiking on the Highway" Message-ID: Poets Hitchhiking on the Highway Of course I tried to tell him but he cranked his head without an excuse. I told him the sky chases the sun And he smiled and said: 'What's the use,' I was feeling like a demon again So I said: 'But the ocean chases the fish.' This time he laughed and said: 'Suppose the strawberry were pushed into a mountain.' After that I knew the war was on-- So we fought: He said: 'The apple-cart like a broomstick-angel snaps & splinters old dutch shoes.' I said: 'Lightning will strike the old oak and free the fumes!' He said: 'Mad street with no name.' I said: 'Bald killer! Bald killer! Bald killer!' He said, getting real mad, 'Firestoves! Gas! Couch!' I said, only smiling, 'I know God would turn back his head if I sat quietly and thought.' We ended by melting away, hating the air! --Gregory Corso fr. *The Happy Birthday of Death* [New York: New Directions, 1960] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From chris at chrislott.org Sun Aug 31 01:42:38 2003 From: chris at chrislott.org (Chris Lott) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:42:38 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: Message-ID: <010301c36f82$b38d9d60$6401a8c0@disted.uaf.edu> On Saturday, August 30, 2003 7:41 PM [GMT+1=CET], Rsgwynn1 at cs.com spake thusly: > Over your head, again. It's hard for me to keep up with clever retorts such as this one. c From grahamd at ripon.edu Sun Aug 31 12:01:44 2003 From: grahamd at ripon.edu (David Graham) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:01:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nice Gluck In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've not heard Gluck termed "nice," either--her poems are typically fierce and sometimes forbidding, with very little of the ingratiating about them. I'd also re-enter my objection to the term "nice" as being very useful in any case. It's half of a much-too-simple and vague binary, no? Likewise, I would object to definitions of poetry's purpose that focus too exclusively on its powers of subversion, without taking into account its other, equally ancient and honorable functions. My gripe with Gluck has to do with the texture of her language, usually. There are exceptions, of course, but too often I find flat statement without much to please my ear, and abstraction without as much dramatic embodiment as I tend to like. Likewise, her imagery and figure tend toward the minimal end of the spectrum. For example: First Memory Long ago, I was wounded. I lived to revenge myself against my father, not for what he was? for what I was: from the beginning of time, in childhood, I thought that pain meant I was not loved. It meant I loved. There are readers who love this kind of thing, I know, but I tend to want more texture. As for her ruthlessness in stripping away the personal, I can see what Wendy means, in many poems at least. But here's an example of a family poem that I think could use a bit *more* detail. I've no idea how much this poem is "personal" to Gluck's own life, but in any event I yearn for more of the sort of textural bits that, say, Robert Lowell would have used to enliven the first couple stanzas especially. The poem gathers steam toward the end, though: Saints In our family, there were two saints, my aunt and my grandmother. But their lives were different. My grandmother's was tranquil, even at the end. She was like a person walking in calm waters; for some reason the sea couldn't bring itself to hurt her. When my aunt took the same path, the waves broke over her, they attacked her, which is how the Fates respond to a true spiritual nature. My grandmother was cautious, conservative: that's why the she escaped suffering. My aunt's escaped nothing; each time the sea retreats, someone she loves is taken away. Still, she won't experience the sea as evil. To her, it is what it is: where it touches land, it must turn to violence. ==================================================== David Graham grahamd at ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ==================================================== > > But this is very curious. I can't recall ever hearing either Gluck or > her poetry accused of being "nice" before. And to say that she's a > "private person" in this country means that she doesn't wish to be > consumed as a celebrity, not that she doesn't participate in the life of > the polis. (It's also polite code for "difficult" and "unsociable.") > > Her poetry, on the other hand, is not at all private. She deals with > psyche and relationship, yes, but she's quite ruthless in stripping away > the personal--why someone like Collins finds her so forbidding. I > haven't been as thrilled by any of her later books as I was by _The > House on Marshland_ back in the mid-70's, but I could say the same > about most of the poets I devoured as a student. > > Wendy > > From Rsgwynn1 at cs.com Sun Aug 31 12:31:03 2003 From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:31:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Nice Gluck Message-ID: <39.3d3b16d8.2c837cc7@cs.com> In a message dated 8/31/2003 11:02:01 AM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at ripon.edu writes: > Still, she won't experience > the sea as evil. To her, it is what it is: > where it touches land, it must turn to violence. > A good final stanza, but "a true spiritual nature" wouldn't survive my workshop. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames at aol.com Sun Aug 31 20:42:08 2003 From: JforJames at aol.com (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:42:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate Message-ID: In a message dated 8/30/03 11:45:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: > Having just heard Naomi Shihab Nye read, I'll vote for her (after me and > > Sam, that is). > > Naomi would be a good choice, in my book. Vive la Texas. > > Joseph Auslander, 1937-1941 (Auslander's appointment to the Poetry chair had no fixed term) Allen Tate, 1943-1944 Robert Penn Warren, 1944-1945 Louise Bogan, 1945-1946 Karl Shapiro, 1946-1947 Robert Lowell, 1947-1948 Leonie Adams, 1948-1949 Elizabeth Bishop, 1949-1950 Conrad Aiken, 1950-1952 (First to serve two terms) William Carlos Williams (Appointed in 1952 but did not serve) Randall Jarrell, 1956-1958 Robert Frost, 1958-1959 Richard Eberhart, 1959-1961 Louis Untermeyer, 1961-1963 Howard Nemerov, 1963-1964 Reed Whittemore, 1964-1965 Stephen Spender, 1965-1966 James Dickey, 1966-1968 William Jay Smith, 1968-1970 William Stafford, 1970-1971 Josephine Jacobsen, 1971-1973 Daniel Hoffman, 1973-1974 Stanley Kunitz, 1974-1976 Robert Hayden, 1976-1978 William Meredith, 1978-1980 Maxine Kumin,1981-1982 Anthony Hecht, 1982-1984 Robert Fitzgerald, 1984-1985 (Appointed and served in a health-limited capacity, but did not come to the Library of Congress) Reed Whittemore, 1984-1985 (Interim Consultant in Poetry) Gwendolyn Brooks, 1985-1986 Robert Penn Warren, 1986-1987 (First to be designated Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry) Richard Wilbur, 1987-1988 Howard Nemerov, 1988-1990 Mark Strand, 1990-1991 Joseph Brodsky, 1991-1992 Mona Van Duyn, 1992-1993 Rita Dove, 1993-1995 Robert Hass, 1995-1997 Robert Pinsky, 1997-2000 (First to serve three consecutive terms) Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin) Stanley Kunitz, 2000-2001 Billy Collins, 2001-2002 -- It appears Gluck (umlaut over the u means the surname rimes with 'click'), isthe first female since Dove to hold the post. Tho she shared the post in 2000. She's got to be on most short lists of eminent poets. (Sorry, but Naomi despite her merits and Texas residence would be a notch below.) Last year at an anniversary celebration of Bollingen Prize, Gluck was the only female present. Creeley, Snyder, Merwin, Ashbery, Hollander, Kunitz, Strand, Wilbur, etc., were her entourage. (Van Duyn, the only other living female to be awarded the prize,.was unable to attend. Hecht & Justice too were no-shows--presumably all due to health.) I've met Gluck once or twice and I think she's not so much cold as always "on guard." Perhaps it's her nature or due to insecurity or, in light above-mentioned anecdote, because often she's the sole filly among stamping & pissing stallions. I don't see her warming up audiences with the kind of charm Collins commands. But she may have some good ideas. I pose this question to the list: If you were named Poet Laureate, what would be your "big idea" for promoting poetry in the land? Finnegan From tadrichards at prodigy.net Sun Aug 31 21:19:59 2003 From: tadrichards at prodigy.net (tadrichards at prodigy.net) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:19:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate Message-ID: <290060-2200391111959866@M2W079.mail2web.com> Janette - sorry I missed you. I wrote you c/o the email address on your website, after looking at your work, which I really like. Original Message: ----------------- From: JforJames at aol.com Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:42:08 EDT To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate In a message dated 8/30/03 11:45:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: > Having just heard Naomi Shihab Nye read, I'll vote for her (after me and > > Sam, that is). > > Naomi would be a good choice, in my book. Vive la Texas. > > Joseph Auslander, 1937-1941 (Auslander's appointment to the Poetry chair had no fixed term) Allen Tate, 1943-1944 Robert Penn Warren, 1944-1945 Louise Bogan, 1945-1946 Karl Shapiro, 1946-1947 Robert Lowell, 1947-1948 Leonie Adams, 1948-1949 Elizabeth Bishop, 1949-1950 Conrad Aiken, 1950-1952 (First to serve two terms) William Carlos Williams (Appointed in 1952 but did not serve) Randall Jarrell, 1956-1958 Robert Frost, 1958-1959 Richard Eberhart, 1959-1961 Louis Untermeyer, 1961-1963 Howard Nemerov, 1963-1964 Reed Whittemore, 1964-1965 Stephen Spender, 1965-1966 James Dickey, 1966-1968 William Jay Smith, 1968-1970 William Stafford, 1970-1971 Josephine Jacobsen, 1971-1973 Daniel Hoffman, 1973-1974 Stanley Kunitz, 1974-1976 Robert Hayden, 1976-1978 William Meredith, 1978-1980 Maxine Kumin,1981-1982 Anthony Hecht, 1982-1984 Robert Fitzgerald, 1984-1985 (Appointed and served in a health-limited capacity, but did not come to the Library of Congress) Reed Whittemore, 1984-1985 (Interim Consultant in Poetry) Gwendolyn Brooks, 1985-1986 Robert Penn Warren, 1986-1987 (First to be designated Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry) Richard Wilbur, 1987-1988 Howard Nemerov, 1988-1990 Mark Strand, 1990-1991 Joseph Brodsky, 1991-1992 Mona Van Duyn, 1992-1993 Rita Dove, 1993-1995 Robert Hass, 1995-1997 Robert Pinsky, 1997-2000 (First to serve three consecutive terms) Special Bicentennial Consultants, 1999-2000: Rita Dove, Louise Gl?ck, and W.S. Merwin) Stanley Kunitz, 2000-2001 Billy Collins, 2001-2002 -- It appears Gluck (umlaut over the u means the surname rimes with 'click'), isthe first female since Dove to hold the post. Tho she shared the post in 2000. She's got to be on most short lists of eminent poets. (Sorry, but Naomi despite her merits and Texas residence would be a notch below.) Last year at an anniversary celebration of Bollingen Prize, Gluck was the only female present. Creeley, Snyder, Merwin, Ashbery, Hollander, Kunitz, Strand, Wilbur, etc., were her entourage. (Van Duyn, the only other living female to be awarded the prize,.was unable to attend. Hecht & Justice too were no-shows--presumably all due to health.) I've met Gluck once or twice and I think she's not so much cold as always "on guard." Perhaps it's her nature or due to insecurity or, in light above-mentioned anecdote, because often she's the sole filly among stamping & pissing stallions. I don't see her warming up audiences with the kind of charm Collins commands. But she may have some good ideas. I pose this question to the list: If you were named Poet Laureate, what would be your "big idea" for promoting poetry in the land? Finnegan _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From bardo at optonline.net Sun Aug 31 21:39:07 2003 From: bardo at optonline.net (Daniel Zimmerman) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:39:07 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: Message-ID: <007b01c37029$d80c9860$6d94c044@MULDER> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate > In a message dated 8/30/03 11:45:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com > writes: > >< > I pose this question to the list: If you were named Poet Laureate, > what would be your "big idea" for promoting poetry in the land? > Finnegan > ideas to promote poetry 1.. Have a contest in which people could take a favorite poem by a living poet and write a companion poem for it. The original poet could select 3-5 of the best, and all could appear in a book and on a web site. 2.. Sponsor a National Found Poetry contest, and publish the winners. 3.. Invite people to write companion poems for any of my anagrammatical poems from ISOTOPES and publish them (as I still hope someone will do). 4.. Invite people to write Isotope poems based on anagrams of their names. 5.. Sponsor a New Poetic Forms competition in two rounds: the first, to select the most interesting forms, and the second, to invite people to compose in them; then , publish the original example and a few of the best examples of work written in each form. 6.. Run a Best Poem of the Month contest, and airdrop leaflets with the winning poem over the winners' towns or cities. Include a web address where readers could respond. 7.. Sponsor a National Rebus Poem contest & publish the results. 8.. Produce a TV version of "What's My Line?" for schools/cable featuring people (anonymously) impersonating the author of an almost-famous line of poetry and answering questions from a panel trying to determine the real author from the answers. 9.. Sponsor a Poems That Explain Everything contest: publish a list of unsolved/insoluble questions, then invite poems that offer insights into them and publish the results. Anyone else? Dan Zimmerman From bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net Sun Aug 31 22:32:18 2003 From: bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net (Bob Grumman) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:32:18 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Poet Laureate References: Message-ID: <008d01c37031$4415e5a0$7f12fea9@j1c1k6> I pose this question to the list: If you were named Poet Laureate, what would be your "big idea" for promoting poetry in the land? Finnegan Abolishing the office of poet laureate to lessen the amount of publicity given to dead poets and their poetry. --Bob G. From kpaul at mallasch.com Sun Aug 31 22:40:50 2003 From: kpaul at mallasch.com (kpaul mallasch) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:40:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [New-Poetry] (if i were) Poet Laureate In-Reply-To: <007b01c37029$d80c9860$6d94c044@MULDER> References: <007b01c37029$d80c9860$6d94c044@MULDER> Message-ID: <20030831212919.A96125@kpaul.spinweb.net> > > I pose this question to the list: If you were named Poet Laureate, > > what would be your "big idea" for promoting poetry in the land? ask my fellow poets across the land to go door to door with poems that mean something to them, explaining why. the overall goal for the term would be to bring poetry back to the people. we're at war, as you know, and the people, quite frankly, could use it more than this re-call thing or 'reality tv'... if i were poet laureate i would create a poetry site to compete with poetry.com and bring poetry to the people i'm just not sure, after being spoon fed for so many years they would even want it. i would petition the commander in chief to take a moment from vacation or invasion to get schools to make poetry - the word, communication - as important as football or the other money-makers. i would sell poems five for a quarter, with bonus poems every wednesday. if i were, poet laureate, act a cur, giving poems a political and social bite. if i were, i would ask the country to each donate a line (any line) to compile at another date in a massive epic poem composed of the lines called, "O America, O Babylon." oh, also i'd sleep in more. -kpaul