From odysseus34 Mon Apr 1 01:12:15 2002 From: odysseus34 (Timothy D. Chase) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:12:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin References: <156.b81558c.29d8f016@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CA7FA3A.FE8FEC6C@earthlink.net> TerryP17 at aol.com wrote: > the Washington Post actually did an article on her The article is actually online at http://www.lynlifshin.com/postintvw.htm with the intriguing pullquote, "Lyn Lifshin is America's most published poet. And that's why nobody knows her name." Opening paragraph: "Dig the hair. I mean, she wants you to. She's written poems about it. Her fairy-tale hair. Rapunzel hair, so bottle-blond and bright and unexpected around her papery, fiftysomething face that when she comes to the door it's all you see -- flash! -- framing her eyes (huge and dark), blanketing her shoulders and sledding down her tiny Tinkerbell back. Wild hair, hippie hair. Ropes of hair. There should be a tiny prince climbing it, coming to save her. Hair like hay, hair like straw. Isn't that Rumpelstiltskin down in the basement, pulling the stuff out of her hairbrushes and spinning it into gold?" (Whether anyone, Washington Post writer or not, likes Lifshin as a poet, why does the profile have to start off so fixated on her physical appearance? Sigh.) IIRC Sharon Olds is another poet who hasn't time to type out all the poetry in her notebooks, but she gets a lot more critical respect than Lifshin does. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From odysseus34 Mon Apr 1 01:44:42 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:44:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath's last journals turn up References: Message-ID: <3CA801D6.BF73FFCC@earthlink.net> Yo! (eyeballs pop out and spin around in a Roger Rabbit effect) IIRC Hughes always said he'd never destroyed the last volume of her journal from about 59 to 62, but the one written in the first months of 63 because he didn't want her children to have to read it. This sound though as if that final journal had survived all along. In her recent biography of Hughes (which is fairly sympathetic to Sylvia) Elaine Feinstein finds it unlikely Hughes would have revealed his lover's pregnancy to Plath in the last week of her life, and in her rather dreadful "Sylvia and Ted" Emma Tennant has Assia make the dramatic announcement herself. It seems possible Hughes might have blurted something out in sheer frustration. In Paul Alexander's biography "Rough Magic" he reported getting an anonymous call from someone who said Plath intended at first to kill her children along with herself, but there was no way to check the information -- if Plath's final journals did contain that information Hughes' decision to destroy them is more understandable. Moira Russell Seattle, WA JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Saw a note about this on PoetryEtc List...more fuel for the > fire... > > http://www.sylviaplathforum.com/docs/lost-journals.html > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Mon Apr 1 07:31:53 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:31:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin References: <156.b81558c.29d8f016@aol.com> <3CA7FA3A.FE8FEC6C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001a01c1d979$34c0b800$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> > (Whether anyone, Washington Post writer or not, likes Lifshin as a poet, why > does the profile have to start off so fixated on her physical appearance? > Sigh.) Because nothing can establish a person quickly in the mind better than his personal appearance? ("His" is there on politically-incorrect purpose.) Or his oddities? Except both together? --Bob G. From Thom424 Mon Apr 1 07:59:09 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:59:09 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin Message-ID: <194.4b95296.29d9b39d@aol.com> Blame Lifshin for many things, but certainly don't blame her for publishing her work in all those magazines--that seems to be the fault (desire?) of the editors of those magazines, not Lifshin's. Perhaps small magazine editors have created the publishing "monster" that Lifshin is or has the reputation of being or....What if 80% of the editors where she has published her poems had not accepted them? When they don't like a program, t.v. viewers can switch channels or turn off the t.v. Magazine editors have a similar option?they can reject & return the poems. Simple as that. Some editors?such as Terry P.?have done this, but evidently not enough of them. William Stafford had a somewhat similar situation during his life. I can't think of (but I'm sure there are some) a magazine that didn't publish a Stafford poem or two one time or another. Many people criticized Stafford for publishing so much. At some point (I think it was Reginald Gibbons in a review) Stafford was berated for his attitude toward and philosophy of writing and publishing so much. Seems to me that the editors of the magazines who published Stafford's poems should be the target, not Stafford. Stafford coerced no one, simply sent his poems out into the world?other people published them. Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From FanwoodJEL Mon Apr 1 08:10:09 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 08:10:09 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin Message-ID: Seems to me that at about precisely the same moment that Donald Hall was berating the rest of us for publishing too much too fast too undistinguished too derivative too unripened McJohnny O'OneNote, his own work was (and still is) appearing in every single blessed journal in America, simultaneously. I can't remember what his hair looks like. Of course, he was solicited, which makes a difference. Right? Jeffrey Levine In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002 8:00:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, Thom424 at aol.com writes: > Blame Lifshin for many things, but certainly don't blame her for publishing > her work in all those magazines--that seems to be the fault (desire?) of the > editors of those magazines, not Lifshin's. Perhaps small magazine editors > have created the publishing "monster" that Lifshin is or has the reputation > of being or....What if 80% of the editors where she has published her poems > had not accepted them? When they don't like a program, t.v. viewers can > switch channels or turn off the t.v. Magazine editors have a similar > optionthey can reject & return the poems. Simple as that. Some editorssuch > as Terry P.have done this, but evidently not enough of them. > > William Stafford had a somewhat similar situation during his life. I can't > think of (but I'm sure there are some) a magazine that didn't publish a > Stafford poem or two one time or another. Many people criticized Stafford for > publishing so much. At some point (I think it was Reginald Gibbons in a > review) Stafford was berated for his attitude toward and philosophy of > writing and publishing so much. Seems to me that the editors of the magazines > who published Stafford's poems should be the target, not Stafford. Stafford > coerced no one, simply sent his poems out into the worldother people > published them. > > Thom Tammaro > Moorhead, MN > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Henry_Gould Mon Apr 1 08:28:13 2002 From: Henry_Gould (Henry Gould) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 08:28:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: the black swan In-Reply-To: <3CA4CBE3.8381.EC0F48E@localhost> References: <004901c1d692$9983b740$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020401074641.00aa0500@postoffice.brown.edu> There's nothing more futile than arguing over metaphysics. Where did our notions of human justice come from? Where did we learn them? Where did the notions "love your enemy", "bless those who curse you", "do good to those who persecute you" - where did these come from? Not from human nature, at least as I know it. They came, perhaps, from a perception of equilibrium in nature. And where did that come from - the equilibrium, I mean? You assert a dichotomy between "hard" information about the natural world, provided by science, and "soft" concepts derived from human norms, like justice - mere verbal formulae, provided by culture. But positivism stops with information - it doesn't allow us to query the meaning of information. I like the Renaissance philosopher Nicolas Cusanus, a humanist with an artist's vision. Cusanus centers his perspective on the concept of imago Dei - that "Man" is the image of a creator-God. But as there is no proportion between the finite and the infinite, the "little world" that Man creates is always a "conjectural" world. Cusanus elicits a positive value from this state of things, however. Our imaginative, interactive engagement with this invented world is the playful purpose of our existence. The most important & substantial discovery we can make is the knowledge of our ignorance (Wallace Stevens would approve). The evidence some of us have brought to this discussion, about the origins of physics in imaginative activity, give the lie to the supposed dichotomy between scientific fact and humanistic value. & if Cusanus is right, we live in a universe more deeply tinctured by the "human" - steeped in meaning(s) which a pile of observed "facts" cannot automatically provide. Henry Marcus Bales: >I think we react with horror at the actions of the Khmer Rouge >because they offend our notions of human justice, but not because >they offend some notion of justice in objective reality. It seems as >if it's the reaction "with horror" that persuades you that there is >"objective justice". Is that right? If so, why is a horrified reaction >any more evidence for the existince of "objective justice" than for >"human-created justice"? > >Today in Cleveland a female falcon that was banded in Pittsburgh, >and has been hanging around the Terminal Tower site of a breeding >pair of falcons that has lived here for the last ten years, killed the >Cleveland female falcon. The Cleveland male falcon is brooding the >eggs she left. Is this just? Is it injust? From JforJames Mon Apr 1 08:32:32 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:32:32 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Tournier's take on Poetry v. Prose Message-ID: <4b.1ae706ef.29d9bb70@aol.com> Poetry & Prose One could imagine two adjacent stores, one an antique shop and the other a hardware store. The window of the hardware store boasts arrays of aluminum pots, shining with black Bakelite handles. As elegant as these pots may look, it is clear that their sole aspiration is to serve. Their raison d'?tre is the kitchen with all its harshness: the fire, the sauces, the aggressions of cleaning. Useful objects whose only worth is their utility; they wear out and will soon be thrown away and replaced. The antique dealer also displays pots. But they are made of pure copper, the surface delicately hand-hammered by an eighteenth-century craftsman. They cannot go on the fire. They are useless. They are ideas of pots more than they are true pots. It is the same with words, depending on whether they are found in the prose text or in a poem. The raison d'?tre of prose is its efficiency. Jean-Paul Sartre: "Prose is in essence utilitarian; I would define the writer of prose as man who uses words. Monsieur Jourdain used prose to ask for his slippers. Hitler to declare war on Poland." Let us add that neither one of them doubted the efficiency of his words. Monsieur Jourdain know that, having spoken, he would receive his slippers; Hitler knew that his divisions would indeed invade Poland. As soon as their effect was obtained, these orders became null and void, and disappeared before their own effectiveness. Like the hardware dealer's pots, prose rushes forth towards its own destruction. Quite different are poetry's words, always aspiring to eternity. Meter and rhyme are justified by their mnemonic virtues. For the vocation of verse is to be learned by heart and recited at any moment, for all eternity. Paul Val?ry recounts this dialogue between the artist Degas and the poet Mallarm?. "I have many ideas in my head," said Degas, "I could write a poetry too." And Mallarm? answers: "But poetry, my dear friend, is made with words, not with ideas." For it is prose that begins with an idea. Monsieur Jourdain first has the idea to put on his slippers, Hitler to invade Poland. Then they speak in accordance with their ideas. In poetry, the word is first. The poem is a chain of words linked by sonority and a certain rhythm. The ideas they carry are secondary. They follow as well as they can. To "understand" prose is to comprehend the ideas that govern it. To "understand" a poem is to be overcome by the inspiration that it radiates. In poetry, clarity and precision--values of prose--yield to emotion and evocative force. The result is that in prose one can always change the words--and in particular translate the text into another language--as long as the idea is respected--while a poem is inexorably faithful to the words that comprise it, and cannot pass from one language to another. A poem and its pretended translation into another language are but two poems on the same theme. One could express the same idea by using the concepts of content and form. One would say that in prose, content and form are easily separated, the same content expressable in many ways, while in poetry the content/form distinction cannot be made: form serves also as content; and content merges with a determined form. One might be surprised that profound thoughts are found in the writings of poets rather than philosophers. The reason for this is that poets write with the enthusiasm and power of the imagination: we have in us some seeds of science which, like flint, philosophers extract by means of reason, while poets, using the imagination, cause the sparks to ignite and burn with great intensity. Rene Descartes, Cogitationes privatae ---- This piece is from a book (literary philosophy) that explores various binaries; testing dialectics or related pairings (dogs & cats, soul & body, memory & habit, the beautiful & the sublime, etc.)... The Mirror of Ideas, by Michel Tournier, translated by Jonathan F Krell From daisyf1 Mon Apr 1 08:38:02 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:38:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall's Hair Message-ID: <20020401.083803.-447567.6.daisyf1@juno.com> Jeffrey, how's this: Donald Hall's hair floats upwards in an aery halo around his intermittently glinting pate, as if raised on invisible wires operated by the selfsame faery sylphs who attend Belinda/Arabella Fermor in Pope's Rape of the Lock. Sometimes it swirls clockwise, sometimes counter, light as the fronds that curl upward from the heads of saints and angels in the oeuvre of whatsisname, the early renaissance painter who was Michelangelo's teacher, catching divine light and doing a creditable imitation of fiddlehead ferns...wild hair, hippie hair, hair like gold, hair like straw... Daisy From bobgrumman Mon Apr 1 09:06:40 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:06:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tournier's take on Poetry v. Prose References: <4b.1ae706ef.29d9bb70@aol.com> Message-ID: <003501c1d987$e9e69660$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> The big problem with Tournier's ideas, most of which I agree with, is that prose can be non-utilitarian (descriptive passages in most of the best novels), poetry utilitarian (an advertising jingle). In my taxonomy, I distinguish utilitarian verbal expression from aesthetic verbal expression, too, calling the first either informrature (used to inform us of facts or ideas), or advocature (used to persuade us of something), and the other literature (used to give us pleasure). Prose in literature is used to take us to pleasure rather than to something, a fact or idea, that we can use to gain pleasure, or improve ourselves. Poetry is used to BE pleasure. Literateurs announce which they are using with what I call flow-breaks, lineation being one way of inserting a flow-break. It's probably impossible to write prose that lacks any poetry, or poetry that isn't part prose. But most texts are obviously more one than the other, as most surface areas of the earth are obviously more land than water or more water than land. The distinction thus makes good sense. Since much poetry will not work unless the auditor slows down, and is looking for poetic effects, the flow-breaks are necessary. On the other hand, using them to define the difference between prose and poetry may seem arbitrary--but how else define that difference objectively? And we do need to differentiate to communicate. Why should prose and poetry be any different from cats and dogs, which people are not satisified to call by one name in spite of their having many more things in common than not? --Bob G. From rwilsnac Mon Apr 1 14:21:30 2002 From: rwilsnac (rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:21:30 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thematic poetry and Davis McCombs Message-ID: <3.0.32.20020401112129.01a105b4@medicine.nodak.edu> I have just read Davis McCombs' collection, ULTIMA THULE, the 2000(?) winner in the Yale Younger Poets series. For those not yet familiar with this collection, it is organized around a theme of "the cave," in particular Mammoth Cave in Kentucky where McCombs was a park ranger. I'm interested in how other list members view the strategy of writing a series of poems revolving around a single central theme, rather than writing (and publishing) poems as separate, isolated creations. Is thematic writing an exception or a trend among young poets currently, and in what circumstances would list members think of it as worthwhile or misguided? An example of McCombs' work is the final poem in the book: Cave Mummies Their faces will remain lost in the shadows of the dry cane-reeds they lit and held aloft. What comes down to us is mortal, dust--- their intact hair and fingernails, their teeth worn to the gums by mussels full of sand. We've probed their last meals matted in their guts and joined a history of side-show men who blurred into the archaeologists I've met. They bend like surgeons in the lantern's light, but do they ever stop, I've wondered, stare out into the dark, and ask what brought us here, all of us, what artifact will tell the future of a longing wild and inarticulate, of a dark place loved and gotten in the blood? Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From JforJames Mon Apr 1 13:15:18 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:15:18 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Tournier's take on Poetry v. Prose Message-ID: <10f.eb62bf9.29d9fdb6@aol.com> I'm reposting this in the hope that it comes thru more clearly, less broken up...the body of this piece is Tournier's views...only the last paragraph (italics got lost) is by Descartes ... Poetry & Prose One could imagine two adjacent stores, one an antique shop and the other a hardware store. The window of the hardware store boasts arrays of aluminum pots, shining with black Bakelite handles. As elegant as these pots may look, it is clear that their sole aspiration is to serve. Their raison d'?tre is the kitchen with all its harshness: the fire, the sauces, the aggressions of cleaning. Useful objects whose only worth is their utility; they wear out and will soon be thrown away and replaced. The antique dealer also displays pots. But they are made of pure copper, the surface delicately hand-hammered by an eighteenth-century craftsman. They cannot go on the fire. They are useless. They are ideas of pots more than they are true pots. It is the same with words, depending on whether they are found in the prose text or in a poem. The raison d'?tre of prose is its efficiency. Jean-Paul Sartre: "Prose is in essence utilitarian; I would define the writer of prose as man who uses words. Monsieur Jourdain used prose to ask for his slippers. Hitler to declare war on Poland." Let us add that neither one of them doubted the efficiency of his words. Monsieur Jourdain know that, having spoken, he would receive his slippers; Hitler knew that his divisions would indeed invade Poland. As soon as their effect was obtained, these orders became null and void, and disappeared before their own effectiveness. Like the hardware dealer's pots, prose rushes forth towards its own destruction. Quite different are poetry's words, always aspiring to eternity. Meter and rhyme are justified by their mnemonic virtues. For the vocation of verse is to be learned by heart and recited at any moment, for all eternity. Paul Val?ry recounts this dialogue between the artist Degas and the poet Mallarm?. "I have many ideas in my head," said Degas, "I could write a poetry too." And Mallarm? answers: "But poetry, my dear friend, is made with words, not with ideas." For it is prose that begins with an idea. Monsieur Jourdain first has the idea to put on his slippers, Hitler to invade Poland. Then they speak in accordance with their ideas. In poetry, the word is first. The poem is a chain of words linked by sonority and a certain rhythm. The ideas they carry are secondary. They follow as well as they can. To "understand" prose is to comprehend the ideas that govern it. To "understand" a poem is to be overcome by the inspiration that it radiates. In poetry, clarity and precision--values of prose--yield to emotion and evocative force. The result is that in prose one can always change the words--and in particular translate the text into another language--as long as the idea is respected--while a poem is inexorably faithful to the words that comprise it, and cannot pass from one language to another. A poem and its pretended translation into another language are but two poems on the same theme. One could express the same idea by using the concepts of content and form. One would say that in prose, content and form are easily separated, the same content expressable in many ways, while in poetry the content/form distinction cannot be made: form serves also as content; and content merges with a determined form. _One might be surprised that profound thoughts are found in the writings of poets rather than philosophers. The reason for this is that poets write with the enthusiasm and power of the imagination: we have in us some seeds of science which, like flint, philosophers extract by means of reason, while poets, using the imagination, cause the sparks to ignite and burn with great intensity._ Rene Descartes, Cogitationes privatae ---- This piece is from a book (literary philosophy) that explores various binaries; testing dialectics or related pairings (dogs & cats, soul & body, memory & habit, the beautiful & the sublime, etc.)... The Mirror of Ideas, by Michel Tournier, translated by Jonathan F Krell From JforJames Mon Apr 1 16:47:30 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:47:30 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Cali to Choose Poet Laureate Message-ID: <138.bfc2d5b.29da2f72@aol.com> Calif. to Choose Poet Laureate Sat Mar 30, 2:01 AM ET LOS ANGELES - A veteran of the Beatnik era, a noted Chicano writer and a friend of the late jazz legend Miles Davis are finalists to become California's first official poet laureate. By July, Gov. Gray Davis (news - web sites) will nominate either Diane di Prima, Francisco Alaron or Quincy Troupe for confirmation by the state Senate. "It is a great honor to be considered," Di Prima said. "California is my country, in a way. How we see the world is unique." A committee selected the three finalists this week from among more than 50 applicants. The applicants included the 11-member writing staff for the NBC sitcom "Will & Grace." "We are the poets of the Southern California landscape," said Jeff Greenstein, one of the show's executive producers. However, their entry didn't survive the first judging round. Di Prima, 67, was born in New York but is a longtime San Francisco resident whose poems and other writings helped capture the Beat Generation. She co-founded "The Floating Bear," which featured works by William S. Burroughs and Jack Kerouac. Alaron, 48, heads the Spanish for Native Speakers program at the University of California, Davis. One of the nation's most prominent Mexican-American poets, Alaron's 10 volumes include "Snake Poems: An Aztec Invocation," which won the 1993 American Book Award. Troupe, 59, of La Jolla, is a teacher at the University of California, San Diego. His work has won at the annual Taos Poetry Circus in New Mexico. He collaborated with Miles Davis on an autobiography and has a radio show, "The Miles Davis Project." The post has existed since 1915 but never officially in state law until last year, when the Legislature approved detailed qualifications and duties. Previously, legislators named poet laureates by resolution ? and they were not necessarily recognized or even published poets. From Rsgwynn1 Mon Apr 1 17:41:56 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:41:56 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath's last journals turn up Message-ID: <164.b6e2947.29da3c34@cs.com> In a message dated 3/31/2002 6:56:51 PM Central Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: > http://www.sylviaplathforum.com/docs/lost-journals.html > The story is a hoax. http://www.sylviaplathforum.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FanwoodJEL Mon Apr 1 17:49:33 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:49:33 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall's Hair Message-ID: <17f.60ebfb0.29da3dfe@aol.com> Daisy, Yes. Yes, exactly. Faery sylphs. Now, would those be the self-same sylphs who fairly parted wild Jeanne Moreau from poor Oskar Werner in Jules et Jim? You remember that scene on the beach--everywhere you looked, all that great hair there? Else maybe it was the moon, *Pale in her anger, washes all the hair.* I mean air. Either way, how perfect your allusion to whatsisname, Domenico Ghirlandaio, I think, the busy Florentine who, it is said, had a brush for every shepherd's tress and also knew how to pronounce San Gimignano. But listen to me, far afield from Hall. It's his Horses I remember best. His good poem. The first straw and the last. Jeffrey In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002 8:40:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, Daisy Fried writes: > Jeffrey, how's this: Donald Hall's hair floats upwards in an aery halo > around his intermittently glinting pate, as if raised on invisible wires > operated by the selfsame faery sylphs who attend Belinda/Arabella Fermor > in Pope's Rape of the Lock. Sometimes it swirls clockwise, sometimes > counter, light as the fronds that curl upward from the heads of saints > and angels in the oeuvre of whatsisname, the early renaissance painter > who was Michelangelo's teacher, catching divine light and doing a > creditable imitation of fiddlehead ferns...wild hair, hippie hair, hair > like gold, hair like straw... > > Daisy > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 Mon Apr 1 18:28:47 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:28:47 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall's Hair Message-ID: <18b.5d0bdee.29da472f@cs.com> In a message dated 4/1/2002 4:52:17 PM Central Standard Time, FanwoodJEL at aol.com writes: > But listen to me, far afield from Hall. It's his Horses I remember best. His > good poem. The first straw and the last. > Some of us are old enough to remember his beard too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DICK Mon Apr 1 18:50:11 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 02 18:50:11 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Hair Message-ID: <200204012350.g31NoUM27156@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> Daisy F. wrote: >>Jeffrey, how's this: Donald Hall's hair floats upwards in an aery halo >>around his intermittently glinting pate, as if raised on invisible wires >>operated by the selfsame faery sylphs who attend Belinda/Arabella Fermor >>in Pope's Rape of the Lock. Sometimes it swirls clockwise, sometimes >>counter, light as the fronds that curl upward from the heads of saints >>and angels in the oeuvre of whatsisname, the early renaissance painter >>who was Michelangelo's teacher, catching divine light and doing a >>creditable imitation of fiddlehead ferns...wild hair, hippie hair, hair >>like gold, hair like straw... >> >>Daisy >> Beautiful, Daisy! I don't see why women's hair should get all the attention. Alas, would that my own were worthy of such... but those days are (and much of the hair is) gone. Richard From odysseus34 Mon Apr 1 22:43:17 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:43:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin References: <156.b81558c.29d8f016@aol.com> <3CA7FA3A.FE8FEC6C@earthlink.net> <001a01c1d979$34c0b800$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Message-ID: <3CA928D1.68DE1F4E@earthlink.net> Bob Grumman wrote: > > (Whether anyone, Washington Post writer or not, likes Lifshin as a poet, > why > > does the profile have to start off so fixated on her physical appearance? > > Sigh.) > > Because nothing can establish a person quickly in the mind better than his > personal appearance? Well, I doubt the writer of a profile on Mark Strand would gush on and on about his Clint Eastwoodian looks and call him the Marauding Prince of Poetry, or whatever. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From odysseus34 Mon Apr 1 22:49:45 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:49:45 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath's last journals turn up References: <164.b6e2947.29da3c34@cs.com> Message-ID: <3CA92A56.3E1A4221@earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Tue Apr 2 05:27:26 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:27:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin References: <156.b81558c.29d8f016@aol.com> <3CA7FA3A.FE8FEC6C@earthlink.net> <001a01c1d979$34c0b800$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> <3CA928D1.68DE1F4E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002f01c1da30$fca45cc0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> > Well, I doubt the writer of a profile on Mark Strand would gush on and on about > his Clint Eastwoodian looks and call him the Marauding Prince of Poetry, or > whatever. I've seen these kinds of profiles on males that started off with descriptions of what they looked like, especially when the male had an appearance as striking as Lifshin seems to have. Especially, too, if the looks go with the character, as in Lifshin's case. I rather doubt that Strand's appearance is quite as startling as Lifshin's. And why would anyone call so conventional a second-rate poet as he a "marouding prince?" --Bob G. From lcrespi Tue Apr 2 06:16:37 2002 From: lcrespi (Linda Crespi) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 03:16:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020402111637.54312.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> George Simmers at Snakeskin has asked me to pass on the message that the zine's June number will be a special about crime. You don't need to be a criminal to contribute. Just send in your poems about housebreaking or throat-cutting or whatever, I guess. You can find full details at www.snakeskin.org.uk The Snakeskin site has had server troubles lately. The service provider went bonkers or something. The Crespi page seems to be offline at the moment, but I SHALL RETURN! Linda The Crespi Page is at: http://snakeskin.org.uk/crespi.htm New work appears usually in Snakeskin Webzine: http://snakeskin.org.uk --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Apr 2 10:58:29 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:58:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Erich Fried, "The Measures Taken" Message-ID: The Measures Taken The lazy are slaughtered the world grows industrious The ugly are slaughtered the world grows beautiful The foolish are slaughtered the world grows wise The sick are slaughtered the world grows healthy The sad are slaughtered the world grows merry The old are slaughtered the world grows young The enemies are slaughtered the world grows friendly The wicked are slaughtered the world grows good. --Erich Fried (tr. Michael Hamburger) Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From paul.lake Tue Apr 2 11:46:20 2002 From: paul.lake (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 10:46:20 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint Message-ID: Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. The opening paragraph: "April 2, 2002 ?|? April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today than patchouli, say, or lint." The link: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/04/02/poetry/index.html Paul Lake From GrahamD Tue Apr 2 11:55:40 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:55:40 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Lint Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D8C@mail.ripon.edu> I'll read this story, of course, but why do I have the feeling I've already read it? Perhaps because I have? Yes, it's National Lament-the-Sad-State-of-Poetry Month! Sigh. . . . Any why is it that few articles seem to be written pointing out how contemporary opera, sculpture, playwriting, or dance do not impact largely on the polis? David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Paul Lake > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2002 10:46 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint > > Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. > The opening paragraph: > > "April 2, 2002 | April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best > efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as > Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip > on > the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today > than patchouli, say, or lint." > > The link: > > http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/04/02/poetry/index.html > > > > Paul Lake > > From CobbCoStudioArts Tue Apr 2 11:57:52 2002 From: CobbCoStudioArts (Robert R.Cobb) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:57:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin Message-ID: <20020402165752.433A42757@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From alphavil Tue Apr 2 12:13:43 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:13:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint References: Message-ID: <3CA9E6C7.ECB6A854@ix.netcom.com> To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've taken to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an 'epistemological engineer'. CP Paul Lake wrote: > Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. > The opening paragraph: > > "April 2, 2002 | April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best > efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as > Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on > the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today > than patchouli, say, or lint." > > The link: > > http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/04/02/poetry/index.html > > Paul Lake > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From rwilsnac Tue Apr 2 14:25:04 2002 From: rwilsnac (rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:25:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hair Message-ID: <3.0.32.20020402112502.00dffb30@medicine.nodak.edu> >I don't see why women's hair should get all the attention. > >Alas, would that my own were worthy of such... but those days are (and >much of the hair is) gone. >Richard If we seek to celebrate the poetic importance of male hair: Prufrock worried about whether to part his hair behind... Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From halvard Tue Apr 2 12:32:06 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:32:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint In-Reply-To: <3CA9E6C7.ECB6A854@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: { To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've taken { to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an { 'epistemological engineer'. CP Auden, I've heard, would tell folks he was a civil engineer. At least that didn't stop the conversation entirely, I guess. Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From alphavil Tue Apr 2 12:35:45 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:35:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint References: Message-ID: <3CA9EBF0.CEC13324@ix.netcom.com> Also, I've discovered with poetry that anger at your work is far more sincere (and valuable) than any praise given for it---another indication of the state of the art. CP Halvard Johnson wrote: > { To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've taken > { to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an > { 'epistemological engineer'. CP > > Auden, I've heard, would tell folks he was a civil engineer. At least that didn't > stop the conversation entirely, I guess. > > Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard at earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames Tue Apr 2 13:16:09 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:16:09 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint Message-ID: In a message dated 4/2/02 11:51:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: > poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on > the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today > than patchouli, say, or lint." > Lint is used in fine paper-making. Glancing thru a USA Today or a TV Guide, I'm often grateful that poetry is not "mass." Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcus Tue Apr 2 13:18:58 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:18:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Lint In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D8C@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CA9AFC2.28656.669ABB@localhost> > Any why is it that few articles seem to be written pointing out how > contemporary opera, sculpture, playwriting, or dance do not impact largely > on the polis? Because such arts have so little impact on the polis that even journalists desperate for topics find it hard to write the articles. The question isn't why are there so few articles about the arts, but rather why the artists have such little impact. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From paul.lake Tue Apr 2 13:23:53 2002 From: paul.lake (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:23:53 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint In-Reply-To: <3CA9E6C7.ECB6A854@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: on 4/2/02 11:13 AM, R.Gancie/C.Parcelli at alphavil at ix.netcom.com wrote: > To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've taken > to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an > 'epistemological engineer'. CP > > Paul Lake wrote: > >> Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. >> The opening paragraph: >> >> "April 2, 2002 | April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best >> efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as >> Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on >> the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today >> than patchouli, say, or lint." >> >> The link: >> >> http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/04/02/poetry/index.html >> >> Paul Lake >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > It is a very strange thing to tell people you're a poet. I may have to go the pocket protector route too, it's so awkward. Paul Lake From paul.lake Tue Apr 2 13:25:22 2002 From: paul.lake (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:25:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 4/2/02 11:32 AM, Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net wrote: > > > { To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've > taken > { to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an > { 'epistemological engineer'. CP > > Auden, I've heard, would tell folks he was a civil engineer. At least that > didn't > stop the conversation entirely, I guess. > > Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard at earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > I heard just the opposite somewhere--that Auden had his occupation on his passport or whatever listed as "poet," which provoked people to ask what he did for a living. Paul Lake From marcus Tue Apr 2 14:20:04 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:20:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Amazing photos of towboat on river In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3CA9BE14.9744.9E8AFB@localhost> There's got to be a poem in this! http://koti.mbnet.fi/~soldier/towboat.htm Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From GrahamD Tue Apr 2 17:27:54 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:27:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D90@mail.ripon.edu> Well, nice to know what you feel "the" question is, but I was interested in the one I asked. I'll spell it out, in case I wasn't clear. It seems highly curious to me that poetry, among all the arts (and apart from other likely topics) is so often singled out as the stick by which middlebrow pundits (a) beat the Philistines over the head for their lack of appreciation for the finer things; or (b) beat the Elitists over the head for their lack of the common touch. (B) occurs more often than (A), perhaps-- in the form of the "poetry has lost its audience" yawner. . . . I was just wondering why poetry seems so frequently to be the lightning rod. Not literary fiction, not dance, not sculpture, not architecture, not playwriting, etc. As I think Donald Hall pointed out long ago, somebody writes a version of the "Can Poetry Matter?" essay every few years at least. One could do a rather thick anthology of them by this point. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Marcus Bales > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2002 12:18 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RE: Lint > > > Any why is it that few articles seem to be written pointing out how > > contemporary opera, sculpture, playwriting, or dance do not impact > largely > > on the polis? > > Because such arts have so little impact on the polis that even > journalists desperate for topics find it hard to write the articles. The > question isn't why are there so few articles about the arts, but > rather why the artists have such little impact. > > > > Marcus Bales > > From JforJames Tue Apr 2 17:40:40 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:40:40 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Amazing photos of towboat on river Message-ID: <26.25900373.29db8d68@aol.com> > http://koti.mbnet.fi/~soldier/towboat.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Apr 2 17:56:39 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:56:39 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Amazing photos of towboat on river Message-ID: <49.1b20dc6d.29db9127@aol.com> apologies, I was sending or trying to send that amusing url to an insurance underwriter I know who works in watercraft coverage.... Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs in some fashion. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpjones Tue Apr 2 18:25:43 2002 From: jpjones (Jill Jones) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:25:43 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Amazing photos of towboat on river In-Reply-To: <49.1b20dc6d.29db9127@aol.com> Message-ID: on 3/4/02 8:56 AM, JforJames at aol.com at JforJames at aol.com wrote: apologies, I was sending or trying to send that amusing url to an insurance underwriter I know who works in watercraft coverage.... Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs in some fashion. Finnegan Something of mine, which was close to hand: Postcards and snapshots I A second hand shuffles you forward. A map blocks out where you may want to be, shipping you, your mercantile heart, with cargo ... But sometimes it is really a postcard, and you step out onto a sunset beach where fishermen and their dogs like children, play among thick ropes like snakes. The boat new caulked, the paint still fresh. Open and unalarmed, no fear of cameras, no wary armour layered on the eyes, the beach fisher with his solid boots striding through a knowledge of tides, heaving a line into a known and gathering dark ? you conforming to sand you hope no-one will stop. II Those instamatic moments stay in place. You flip over the layers in your cells once again. Their perfection passed unnoticed mostly until they?d gone into your great book of recall, which fattens with a certain weight of time, yet thins when you try to peer with sight shorter than the breath of each day?s work. Still, your intelligence shows itself, though scared to admit the sun did shine against the wall, and a path lead along the cliff above the sea, thinking of a concerto, Bach?s Double Violin maybe. You walked with someone, and you hoped. The sea below was flat and green, and dolphins arched through the surface in their shadowy mass. It all wrestles now with your fading depth of sight. Cheers, Jill _________________________________ Jill Jones 50 Ruby Street Marrickville NSW 2204 AUSTRALIA jpjones at ihug.com.au http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jpjones -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat Tue Apr 2 22:07:53 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:07:53 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D90@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <20020402190753.004352@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Graham, David wrote: >I was just wondering why poetry seems so frequently to be the lightning rod. >Not literary fiction, not dance, not sculpture, not architecture, not >playwriting, etc. They're just wondering why we won't go away, David. We're an affront to capitalism, market demographics, and everything else the culture holds dear. Keep up the good work. Wendy From JforJames Tue Apr 2 20:47:08 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:47:08 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The American Hughes Message-ID: <5b.25877172.29dbb91c@aol.com> A series of events will be commemorating the centenary of Hughes's birth, including: --The Twentieth-Century Masters Tribute To Langston Hughes, featuring actors Ossie Davis, Ruby Dee, saxophonist Joshua Redman, and poet Sonia Sanchez at Town Hall in New York City on April 30 at 8:00 p.m --The designation of today, April 2, by the Langston Hughes National Poetry Project, the Academy of American Poets and the National Council of Teachers of English as Langston Hughes Poetry Day. Watch for Hughes events happening in your own local area. From JforJames Tue Apr 2 20:52:24 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:52:24 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Norton Poets Message-ID: <50.93f90b7.29dbba58@aol.com> Norton Poets Online Newsletter Date: 4/2/02 9:38:25 AM Eastern Standard Time From: nvictor at WWNORTON.com (Victor, Nomi) To: poetry at wwnorton.biglist.com ('poetry at wwnorton.biglist.com') http://www.nortonpoets.com ----------- Greetings in the first week of National Poetry Month! What will you be doing to celebrate? Attending a poetry reading? Visit our website to find out which Norton poets are reading near you. And for a list of official National Poetry Month sponsored events, check in at the Academy of American Poets website: http://www.poets.org. If you're the sort who still has Christmas lights up, we've got a great way to mark the new season: later this week we'll be posting six printable poetry mini-posters, for your refrigerator door, cubicle wall, or classroom bulletin board. Brighten up your surroundings with poems from Linda Pastan, Gerald Stern, Peter Sacks, April Bernard, Joy Harjo, and Molly Peacock. Speaking of the poets mentioned above, our spring season here at Norton features new collections from all six, and much more besides. **New this month** Linda Pastan, The Last Uncle Gerald Stern, American Sonnets and a first novel by poet James Lasdun Visit the site to learn more! **New in the Poet's Workshop-a double billing for National Poetry Month** Not for Cowards: On Getting Older by Linda Pastan and later this month: Thoughts on the Sonnet by Gerald Stern **Poem of the Month: "Egg" by Gerald Stern** And I have been a mother to geese and what not, I hired forty-five poets in Pennsylvania and sent them to the northern and western reaches after I trained them at Lewisburg during the summer institute and visited the schools and traveled in an old Toyota in all the sixty-seven counties and lived in a hotel in Harrisburg three days a week and talked to them about love and money and teaching and poetry; and I was head of a teachers' union and I was a chair, as we say, and I bought the food for my own family and I did the Band-Aids, and I gave advice in three or four cities, and there was a small goose who followed me everywhere, honking with love, and I was exhausted; I hated him, always on top of me--I wanted to kick him--my third child!-- He was a machine, food on one end, shit on the other--and there was an egg I had to break with a hammer, I paid a quarter for it, the omelette was orange, and huge, I was so hungry then. (c) 2002 by Gerald Stern From JforJames Tue Apr 2 21:00:06 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:00:06 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath's last journals turn up Message-ID: In a message dated 4/1/02 5:43:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: << The story is a hoax. http://www.sylviaplathforum.com/ >> ooops. ouch. etc. Finnegan From jholmes Tue Apr 2 22:11:58 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 20:11:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Thematic Poetry and Davis McCombs Message-ID: Hello, Richard--nice to meet you. >> I'm interested in how other list members view the strategy of writing a series of poems revolving around a single central theme, rather than writing (and publishing) poems as separate, isolated creations. Is thematic writing an exception or a trend among young poets currently, and in what circumstances would list members think of it as worthwhile or misguided? << I've got lots of thoughts on this--the first one being that I wouldn't think of it as a "strategy." A strategy for what? Getting published? Continuing to write a poem a day? "Strategy" makes me think you're thinking of the act of writing poetry as some kind of campaign. A poem as a "separate, isolated creation" seems to be the norm, rather than sequenced poems. It's such a poem that's made for anthologies and poetry journals, whereas an unwieldy book-length sequence has to languish unread until a kindly publisher comes along. But, that said, M.L. Rosenthal & Sally Gall declared, in their book THE MODERN POETIC SEQUENCE, that the sequence was the dominant modern form. And just looking at more recent books, it's clearly still popular: anything by Louise Gluck; book length sonnet sequences by Marilyn Hacker, Ellen Bryant Voigt, and Mark Jarman; "novels in verse" like Anne Carson's AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF RED; Andrew Hudgins' AFTER THE LOST WAR; obsessive books like Christine Hume's wonderful MUSCA DOMESTICA or Joe Wenderoth's LETTERS TO WENDY'S, &, it sounds like, McCombs's. So I think it's fair to say this isn't a young poets' patent; it's a pretty established fixture on the poetry scene. I see a fairly large number of manuscripts in the course of a year, and there are just as many bad "thematic" ones as there are bad ones made up of "separate, isolated" poems. There's also the problem of having a theme that's either overdone (dealing with cancer, say) or kind of weird (cartoons of the 1960s -- poems, yes, but 68 pages of them?). I speak as someone currently at work on a book-length sequence, who's suddenly aware of trying to explain to a promotion & tenure committee why there aren't any journal publications for a few years... Anyway, what's your take? worthwhile or misguided? Obviously, I think it's worthwhile--I'm masochistic, but not THAT bad. Janet From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 2 22:47:52 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:47:52 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: <11a.eac0fd1.29dbd568@cs.com> In a message dated 4/2/2002 4:29:25 PM Central Standard Time, GrahamD at Mail.Ripon.EDU writes: > It seems highly curious to me > that poetry, among all the arts (and apart from other likely topics) is so > often singled out as the stick by which middlebrow pundits > > (a) beat the Philistines over the head for their lack of appreciation > for the finer things; or > (b) beat the Elitists over the head for their lack of the common touch. > > I don't think so. The visual arts have come in for much more of this over the years, witness the elephant-turd Madonna in Brooklyn (or Mapplethorpe) controversies. Poetry is the poor step-child here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 2 22:49:03 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:49:03 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: <176.61bed68.29dbd5af@cs.com> In a message dated 4/2/2002 4:29:25 PM Central Standard Time, GrahamD at Mail.Ripon.EDU writes: > > I was just wondering why poetry seems so frequently to be the lightning rod. > Not literary fiction, not dance, not sculpture, not architecture, not > playwriting, etc. > As far as literature is concerned, both fiction and drama are still tied to a viable market economy. Poetry is not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Tue Apr 2 23:25:23 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:25:23 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: <200204030423.g334N8681783@mx1.mx.voyager.net> Well, publicly funded art (and the politics thereof) is one thing, but I'm still brooding over another thing. Which is: where are all the essays in places like *Atlantic Monthly* titled "Can Sculpture Matter?* and talking in nostalgic terms about the good old days when equestrian statues of G. Washington went up in small town squares across the land? It's true that items like "Piss Christ" get the op-ed writers in a lather, yes. Good point. Still seems to me, though, that we haven't seen the equivalent of "Who Killed Poetry?" and "Can Poetry Matter" essays written about other arts--not in the same proportion, anyway. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I definitely am *tired* of the WKP/CPM? genre--and of being informed so relentlessly by folks who generally don't read poetry that poetry is marginal in our culture. I mean, is that a dog-bites-man story or what? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More Lint Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2002, 9:47 PM In a message dated 4/2/2002 4:29:25 PM Central Standard Time, GrahamD at Mail.Ripon.EDU writes: It seems highly curious to me that poetry, among all the arts (and apart from other likely topics) is so often singled out as the stick by which middlebrow pundits (a) beat the Philistines over the head for their lack of appreciation for the finer things; or (b) beat the Elitists over the head for their lack of the common touch. I don't think so. The visual arts have come in for much more of this over the years, witness the elephant-turd Madonna in Brooklyn (or Mapplethorpe) controversies. Poetry is the poor step-child here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 2 23:58:37 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 23:58:37 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: In a message dated 4/2/2002 10:25:38 PM Central Standard Time, grahamd at mail.ripon.edu writes: > Well, publicly funded art (and the politics thereof) is one thing, but I'm > still brooding over another thing. Which is: where are all the essays in > places like *Atlantic Monthly* titled "Can Sculpture Matter?* and talking > in nostalgic terms about the good old days when equestrian statues of G. > Washington went up in small town squares across the land? > But these are primarily literary magazines, David. And what about Norman Rockwell in the Gugenheim? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne Wed Apr 3 01:45:58 2002 From: Edward.Byrne (Edward Byrne) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 00:45:58 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Thematic Poetry and Davis McCombs Message-ID: <1017816358.smmsdV1.1.2@pluto.valpo.edu> Since my latest publication, just released in March, is a book-length thematic sequence, you can guess I believe, as Janet Holmes has said, such works can be "worthwhile." Although all my previous books were filled with individual poems sometimes thematically connected within sections, I had always wanted to publish a longer book-length sequence. In one of my first books I did have a poem that had 23 short sections, and about two years ago I published a long poem that contained 20 sections in a journal. This poem will probably be included in my next book. However, until my new collection, _Tidal Air_, I did not have the opportunity to develop and publish a book-length sequence. I was fortunate that I had an encouraging publisher who saw the sequence in development, when I was only thinking of the possibility of a chapbook version for publication, and asked to release the book-length version. The collection is actually a book-length diptych, two complementary poems, each with a sequence of 12-sections, almost all ranging from two to four pages apiece. Ever since I first started writing poetry I have been fascinated by longer works of poetry written in the form of a sequence. One of my areas of study for my Ph.D. was Shakespeare's Sonnets and the Elizabethan Sonnet Sequence. I also found the M.L. Rosenthal & Sally Gall book on the Modern Poetic Sequence, mentioned by Janet, very persuasive. I remember, as an undergraduate, attending a Galway Kinnell poetry reading of the entire _Book of Nightmares_ and wanting someday to publish something similar. I like very much reading poetry sequences, some longer and some shorter, such as the ones mentioned by Janet or others, like Robert Penn Warren's _Audobon_ or Derek Walcott's sequences, just to name a couple. Even though I have the highest regard for Eliot's _The Waste Land_, I think _Four Quartets_ is a more interesting poem to read. I consider Whitman's "Song of Myself" the sequence that gave birth to American poetry -- talk about someone setting "a trend." Indeed didn't Whitman see all his poetry as one long sequence gathered under the title _Leaves of Grass_? Bernardine Evaristo just sent me a copy of her 250-page verse novel, _The Emperor's Babe_, written in a the form of a sequence of poems, and I'm enjoying it. I also like the McCombs book you mention. On the other hand, I love reading and writing wonderful "separate, isolated creations" as well. --Edward Byrne > Richard W. Wilsnack wrote: > I'm interested in how other list members view the strategy of writing > a series of poems revolving around a single central theme, rather than > writing (and publishing) poems as separate, isolated creations. Is > thematic writing an exception or a trend among young poets currently, > and in what circumstances would list members think of it as worthwhile > or misguided? -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From odysseus34 Wed Apr 3 01:18:56 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 23:18:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint References: Message-ID: <3CAA9ECD.6D27BBF6@earthlink.net> Actually, especially since the author is a poet, this seems more like one of Salon's short satiric pieces. I didn't think she was so much writing a WKP/CPM lament, as mocking modern culture: "So what did people do before 'Chicken Soup for the Cro-Magnon Soul' was around? What do you think they did? They turned to poetry." Moira Russell Seattle, WA Paul Lake wrote: > Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. > The opening paragraph: > > "April 2, 2002 ?|? April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best > efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as > Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on > the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today > than patchouli, say, or lint." From dbarone Wed Apr 3 07:43:52 2002 From: dbarone (dbarone) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:43:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] lint - book recommendation Message-ID: <0D9D00A18A08ED47875BD976E134249008D33D@sjcmail.sjc.edu> Regarding poetry as lint and the difficulties in US of saying, yes, I am a poet: I recommend Lisa Steinman's book Made in America. In this book (I think it was published Yale UP in 1988) she talks about M Moore, W Stevens, and WC Williams and how they justified being a poet in the worlds in which they lived. I remember, too, Williams end to "The Desert Music" -- something like -- "I am a poet! I am. I am. And I am not ashamed." Dennis Barone From DICK Wed Apr 3 08:45:15 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 02 08:45:15 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] poems about pictures Message-ID: <200204031345.g33DjZM24388@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> >>Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post >>poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs >>in some fashion. >>Finnegan Poet's Photo (from Swarm dustjacket) Soulful eyebrows, coalful eyes, O Jorie you penetrate me so, your spectral mane aflow, your angled cheek and jaw bones nobler than Geronimo, your lips, at rest, that would devour stalagmites and mostly your rosary necklace in repose on your vanished bosom. From halvard Wed Apr 3 09:15:13 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:15:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Paris in Old Photographs" In-Reply-To: <49.1b20dc6d.29db9127@aol.com> Message-ID: > Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post > poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs > in some fashion. > Finnegan Paris in Old Photographs 1. The priests . . . never more lovely than in autumn. Bulky cows passed to and fro. Slowly, they were being poisoned. Their lilac flanks brought to mind your eyes. Their nose rings. Rapists seem so pretty in the fall, my life so poisoned by your eyes. Schoolkids wrassle in the streets, and one plays the mouth organ. Daughters and their daughters flap about, battling both the flowers and the wind. The choirmaster sings sweetly, though quite slowly, among abandoned cows flourishing along our forever unorthodox streets. 2. Don't worry about my corpse. Let it lie where it falls. Or hang me from a low branch of that tree, where children can pelt me with stones. Toss me over the parapet, or stretch me out on your grand piano. Throw all my clothes away, give all my books to the poor. Shove me down a hillside. Turn your back and walk away. Quick! Before I stop rolling. Insinuate your way into the night air, into the heart of a cat. The moment you vanish, something heavy falls like a rock to the sea. 3. Old women hunch over eggs at their tables, using their last ounce of strength to crack open a shell; autumn rendezvous go on all around them and they fail to glance up. Inky clouds envelop them. 4. I'll name names now. That desert's name is Mouse, he has a dark voice. No one ever calls him to the door. The castle is called Foot. In perpetual shadow it thrives. Anything we want to destroy--your form, your memory--we put in there. The true name of war is Mercy, taking for granted all those liberties we've never been fully apprised of--in our hands, in the ear of a sow who might be our mother. --Halvard Johnson Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From jvcervantes Wed Apr 3 11:05:00 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:05:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] photo poems References: Message-ID: <3CAB282B.34C0B2A4@earthlink.net> > > Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post > > poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs > > in some fashion. > > Finnegan ends with the photo but began because of the photo: 36th Birthday He's the boy jumping a fence, vaulting for his life, a man's throw felt in the stone that strikes his ankle, somehow attached to the bone, hitting again as if the hand were there. As a man, he would measure the fence, maybe try it again, reddening as that same ankle struck the boards. What was wheelwell then? Gravel spewing. What damage the man could not afford, there, and throw a stone? His wife does not hear him on the bluff, where a large cumulus opens and a portion of the water becomes mirror, blanking out a small boat, eating at the edges of a larger boat. Here's a candid photo of his wife, reading under a cat that is asleep, one of a woman whispering behind her hand into the ear of another woman, an older photo of a child whose bare hand is in the mother's gloved one, which is raised as if to receive a falcon. Everyone looks away. It is here, traveling before the averted faces, that the stone hits and the sun blinds. Everyone looked away. He turned to see that hand. - James Cervantes James Cervantes: Salt River Review: Poetserv: Homepage: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reading itinerary: From cvoisine Wed Apr 3 12:41:18 2002 From: cvoisine (NMSU) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:41:18 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #741 - 15 msgs In-Reply-To: <200204030146.g331k2Q27976@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: To all: I have lately given up my study of lint (sorry Salon) and become especially interested in finding good essays/criticism about the lyric voice. I am reading some of Frank O'Hara's prose and few other contemporary sources (orr and others). Any ideas? No source too academic or wacky. Connie Voisine From GrahamD Wed Apr 3 12:41:54 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:41:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lyric Voice Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D96@mail.ripon.edu> Ellen Voigt's book *The Flexible Lyric* (U Georgia) is one of the best things I've read in a good while. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: NMSU > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2002 11:41 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #741 - 15 msgs > > To all: > > I have lately given up my study of lint (sorry Salon) and become > especially > interested in finding good essays/criticism about the lyric voice. I am > reading some of Frank O'Hara's prose and few other contemporary sources > (orr > and others). Any ideas? No source too academic or wacky. > > Connie Voisine > > From marcus Wed Apr 3 12:52:54 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:52:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #741 - 15 msgs In-Reply-To: References: <200204030146.g331k2Q27976@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3CAAFB26.8419.AB8E01@localhost> > To all: > I have lately given up my study of lint (sorry Salon) and become especially > interested in finding good essays/criticism about the lyric voice. I am > reading some of Frank O'Hara's prose and few other contemporary sources (orr > and others). Any ideas? No source too academic or wacky. > Connie Voisine Have you tried Anne Finch's work? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From jholmes Wed Apr 3 12:58:18 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:58:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] lyric voice Message-ID: Connie, I've been enjoying Susan Stewart's POETRY AND THE SENSES, which is fairly new. There is also some discussion of Armantrout's use of the lyric in A WILD SALIENCE, particularly in Hejinian's interview. Also, do you know Allen Grossman's SUMMA LYRICA? It's brilliant, and in his book with Mark Halliday, THE SIGHTED SINGER. Janet From halvard Wed Apr 3 13:02:13 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:02:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: James Tate, "Little Poem with Argyle Socks" Message-ID: Little Poem with Argyle Socks Behind every great man there sits a rat. And behind every great rat, there's a flea. Beside the flea there is an encyclopedia. Every now and then the flea sneezes, looks up, and flies into action, reorganizing history. The rat says, "God, I *hate* irony." To which the great man replies, "Now now now, darling, drink your tea." --James Tate Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From jholmes Wed Apr 3 13:20:05 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:20:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest Message-ID: Hey, no fair! I get this listserve's messages in digest form, and received only the first six of the eleven messages listed below. What gives? Also, those of you who include the entire chain of correspondence in your replies make these digests incredibly repetitive. I wonder whether the excessive length of these individual messages messes up the digests? Jim, do you know? Janet Today's Topics: 1. Norton Poets (JforJames at aol.com) 2. Re: Plath's last journals turn up (JforJames at aol.com) 3. Re: Thematic Poetry and Davis McCombs (Janet Holmes) 4. Re: More Lint (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) 5. Re: More Lint (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) 6. More Lint (David Graham) 7. Re: More Lint (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) 8. Re: Thematic Poetry and Davis McCombs (Edward Byrne) 9. Re: Lint (odysseus34) 10. lint - book recommendation (dbarone) 11. poems about pictures (DICK at watson.ibm.com) From trbell Wed Apr 3 17:40:02 2002 From: trbell (trbell at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:40:02 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest References: Message-ID: <007e01c1db60$7e7dc6c0$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> there's got to be a better way of handling mail messages on lists. Maybe soon someone will come up with abetter way of handling them as we soon will be paying for sending emails. I personally like to get the whole thread when I get a message just as if it wasa reply posted on a bb. it helps my mind organize all the info and it makes it easier to store if it's worth saving. It's a fairly common occurence that people join lists because they are interested in a topic and then quit when they get too many messages. it's almost like they feel a moral obligation to read them all rather than just delete? tom bell From Rsgwynn1 Wed Apr 3 13:53:30 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:53:30 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #741 - 15 msgs Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2002 11:55:27 AM Central Standard Time, marcus at designerglass.com writes: > Have you tried Anne Finch's work? > I have an online interview with Annie Finch soon to appear at www.ablemuse.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Wed Apr 3 17:39:05 2002 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:39:05 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] lint - book recommendation References: <0D9D00A18A08ED47875BD976E134249008D33D@sjcmail.sjc.edu> Message-ID: <3CAB8489.5F6EA4B4@earthlink.net> that always sounded too much like Walter Mondale's " I am a real Democrat. I am. I am" (sort of like Popeye on prozac....) for me, preferable is Laura Riding's ending to "When Love Becomes Words" "the warm accusation of being poets." CS dbarone wrote: > Regarding poetry as lint and the difficulties in US of saying, yes, I am a > poet: I recommend Lisa Steinman's book Made in America. In this book (I > think it was published Yale UP in 1988) she talks about M Moore, W Stevens, > and WC Williams and how they justified being a poet in the worlds in which > they lived. I remember, too, Williams end to "The Desert Music" -- > something like -- "I am a poet! I am. I am. And I am not ashamed." > > Dennis Barone > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards Thu Apr 4 01:13:13 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:13:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime References: <20020402111637.54312.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014101c1db9f$ce0e2100$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> At the Snakeskin site, there's a message that says for details on the crime issue, please click here, but there's no place to click. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Crespi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime George Simmers at Snakeskin has asked me to pass on the message that the zine's June number will be a special about crime. You don't need to be a criminal to contribute. Just send in your poems about housebreaking or throat-cutting or whatever, I guess. You can find full details at www.snakeskin.org.uk The Snakeskin site has had server troubles lately. The service provider went bonkers or something. The Crespi page seems to be offline at the moment, but I SHALL RETURN! Linda The Crespi Page is at: http://snakeskin.org.uk/crespi.htm New work appears usually in Snakeskin Webzine: http://snakeskin.org.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards Thu Apr 4 01:15:58 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:15:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] tel aviv journal References: <20020402111637.54312.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014b01c1dba0$3023fe00$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Listmember Karen Alkalay-Gut, who lives in Tel Aviv, has started recording her thoughts and observations on the dreadful war that swirls around her, in an online journal that's devastating, thoughtful, heartfelt, and miraculously observed. Look for it at http://geocities.com/alkalay_gut/ Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Apr 4 08:35:47 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:35:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime In-Reply-To: <014101c1db9f$ce0e2100$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Message-ID: Click "here," Tad. Let your cursor do the walking. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard At the Snakeskin site, there's a message that says for details on the crime issue, please click here, but there's no place to click. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Crespi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime George Simmers at Snakeskin has asked me to pass on the message that the zine's June number will be a special about crime. You don't need to be a criminal to contribute. Just send in your poems about housebreaking or throat-cutting or whatever, I guess. You can find full details at www.snakeskin.org.uk The Snakeskin site has had server troubles lately. The service provider went bonkers or something. The Crespi page seems to be offline at the moment, but I SHALL RETURN! Linda The Crespi Page is at: http://snakeskin.org.uk/crespi.htm New work appears usually in Snakeskin Webzine: http://snakeskin.org.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Thu Apr 4 08:58:31 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:58:31 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest & Avoiding Repeated Messages Message-ID: <106.fd2ec57.29ddb607@aol.com> In a message dated 4/3/02 1:19:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, jholmes at boisestate.edu writes: > no fair! I get this listserve's messages in digest form, and > received only the first six of the eleven messages listed below. What > gives? > > Also, those of you who include the entire chain of correspondence in > your replies make these digests incredibly repetitive. I wonder whether > the excessive length of these individual messages messes up the digests? > Jim, do you know? > Janet, I'll look into this. Could it be that your email system/software is automatically truncating the digest due to its length? Avoiding Repeatied Messages... Here's a tip that could help cut down on the length of some posts: If you are using Outlook Express, here's a way to avoid sending the original message back to the list along with your reply: Select Tools, then Options, then the Send tab. Under Send, uncheck the box that says "Include message in reply" Other e-mail programs probably have similar options, listed under Preferences or some similar topic. Also, if you choose Plain text rather than HTML text, some of the strange formatting might also be eliminated. Jim F From JforJames Thu Apr 4 09:13:42 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:13:42 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] April 1: Peter Davison Message-ID: April 1: Peter Davison +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A warm welcome to you -- today begins the fourth annual National Poetry Month Knopf Poem-a-Day email series. Over the course of April we hope to introduce you to a wide range of poems published by the Knopf Publishing Group--from new translations of Sappho to poems by Pultizer Prize-winners Mark Strand, Philip Levine, Mona Van Duyn, and Wallace Stevens. Poetry can expand the written and spoken word's ability, own own ability, to make meaning. It can breathe words sparked and renewed back into a common language. We hope that the words of these poems created in or translated into English will spring off your computer screen into your life and there resonate and grow. Enjoy, and please log on to the Knopf Poetry Forum to share your thoughts about the poems with the thousands of other readers who will be receiving them by email throughout the month: http://www.knopfpoetry.com/forum/ We begin with a poem from Peter Davison, Poetry Editor of the Atlantic Monthly and longtime resident of the Boston area. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ruffed Grouse The buds let fly a pungent spring flavor, and the sunlight fanned across the bare ground for unperching. Restlessness crept in, a necklace around the male?s long neck, below where his beak would open to sing, if he were the kind to sing. His back gathered itself to lengthen and widen. He needed more room now and soon found it in a clearing he had been keeping his eye on, with a hollow log planted at one edge. Now he had to wait only a day or two until something in the air called, Time! before he?d start to grow. His clawed toes prepared to tick on the leaves, his strut to shorten. His hidden shoulders would soon begin their burgeoning, beyond wings, into the great hissing ruff. The tail would stiffen, and within his chest new lungs would at last open. Now his pace would march him strut by strut toward the hidden music, to mount the hollow log, shuffle his feathered feet, and drum drum drum drum drum till the whole forest shuddered. from BREATHING ROOM (c) 2000 by Peter Davison +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More poems by Peter Davison: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/davison/poem.html And read an essay by Peter Davison entitled "Finding Time to Write" "Years ago I read a truly discerning piece of advice about writing. If a poem you're struggling with doesn't conclude properly, said the late Richard Hugo, look a few lines before the end for the trouble: trouble is seldom located where you think. So it is that "finding time to write" is seldom what keeps writing from getting done..." Continue reading the essay at: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/davison/poetsonpoetry.html From halvard Thu Apr 4 10:09:54 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:09:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest & Avoiding Repeated Messages In-Reply-To: <106.fd2ec57.29ddb607@aol.com> Message-ID: { Here's a tip that could help cut down on the length of some posts: { { If you are using Outlook Express, here's a way to avoid sending the original { message back to the list along with your reply: { { Select Tools, then Options, then the Send tab. { Under Send, uncheck the box that says "Include message in reply" { { Other e-mail programs probably have similar options, listed under Preferences { or some similar topic. { { Also, if you choose Plain text rather than HTML text, some of the strange { formatting might also be eliminated. The last suggestion is good, but reformatting someone else's HTML text into plain text is a pain in the backside. The first sender is the one who should avoid sending HTML. I suppose unchecking the "Include message in reply" box would work, but it's not, in my experience, as practical as merely highlighting and hitting backspace to delete a message or any parts of a message one doesn't need to include. For example, in replying to your message, Jim, I've deleted some of the message and all of the top and bottom stuff. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From jholmes Thu Apr 4 11:37:52 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:37:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bogus digest and Avoiding Repeating Messages Message-ID: Thanks, Jim. Someone here has suggested it might have to do with the web-access version of my Boise State mail software, as well. He's looking into that. Ted, with all respect, you are giving advice for the wrong scenario. One can't delete individual messages in a digest. You can either delete the whole digest or scroll through the interminable versions (first in plain text, then again in HTML coding) quoted and requoted and re-re-re-quoted by each participant in a discussion. Sometimes the quoted material has five or six levels of reply, which makes it almost impossible to find the actual new message among all of them. Since my account is on a school server, I try to minimize the number of messages I get, and digesting is the best alternative. I realize that knowing what statement each message is responding to is useful to those of us with memories that are, I like to say, already overloaded (rather than, erm, old) -- but maybe taking the time to erase all the other ones that don't pertain any more would be a possible compromise? Janet From daisyf1 Thu Apr 4 12:23:02 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:23:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #745 - 3 msgs Message-ID: <20020404.122303.-186179.13.daisyf1@juno.com> > I realize that knowing what statement each message is responding to > is > useful to those of us with memories that are, I like to say, already > overloaded (rather than, erm, old) -- but maybe taking the time to > erase > all the other ones that don't pertain any more would be a possible > compromise? > And it's easy to access the thread by going to the archives on the website... Daisy From JforJames Thu Apr 4 20:19:48 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:19:48 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] FYI TOO LATE: New Arab Poetry and Agha Shahid Ali Message-ID: Date:? ? Thu, 4 Apr 2002 04:32:35 -0800 From:? ? Ram Devineni Subject: New Arab Poetry and Agha Shahid Ali Please join us for three major programs on New Arab Poetry and Agha Shahid Ali. Additional information at http://www.rattapallax.com/rattapallax7_issue.htm Thanks, Ram Devineni The Contrapuntal Air: A Panel Discussion on the Convergence of Islamic and Western Literary Traditions, the poet Agha Shahid Ali, New Arab Poetry, and the Role of the Literary Journal. Thursday, April 4, 2002 at 2 PM Rifkind Room, NAC 6/316, City College With Khaled Mattawa, Christopher Merrill, Marilyn Hacker, Ram Devineni, Yerra Sugarman and M. L. Williams. For further information, please contact Nicola Blake, Rifkind Coordinator at (212) 650-7367 or via email at rifkind at ccny.cuny.edu FREE ---------------- Agha Shahid Ali Memorial Reading and Tribute Thursday, April 4, 2002 at 7 PM Greenberg Lounge, Vanderbilt Hall, New York University, 40 Washington Square South With Carol Houck Smith, Christopher Merrill, Meena Alexander, Nicholas Christopher, Michael Collier, Sharon Dolin, Forrest Gander, Amitav Ghosh, Daniel Hall, Thomas Healy, Geraldine Maxwell, Glyn Maxwell, Jeanne McCulloch, Sharon Olds, Michael Palmer, Elise Paschen, Grace Schulman, Tom Sleigh, Jean Valentine, Chuck Wachtel, William Wadsworth, Galway Kinnell & Eliot Weinberger. Presented by the NYU Graduate Creative Writing Program. For more information call the NYU Graduate Creative Writing Program at 212-998- 8816. FREE ---------------- NEW ARAB POETRY from Rattapallax Khaled Mattawa, Marilyn Hacker & Mary Ann Caws DATE: April 6, 2002 TIME: 2:00 pm Mid-Manhattan Library, 455 Fifth Ave. at 40th St., NYC, FREE Reading poems by Mahmoud Abu Hashhash, Muftah al-Amari, Fadhil Al- Azzawi, Muhammad al-Dayrawi, Maram al-Massri, Waleed al-Shaikh, Tahar Bekri, Andr?e Chedid, V?nus Khoury-Ghata, Iman Mersal, Amjad Nasser, Fatima Qindil, Amina Sa?d, Ghada Shafi?i i, Habib Tengour, and Saadi Youssef ===== Please send future emails to devineni at rattapallax.com for press devineni at dialoguepoetry.org for UN program -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Thu Apr 4 20:49:54 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:49:54 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] EB White on Poets Message-ID: <116.f1effcb.29de5cc2@aol.com> EB White on Poets... You read, perhaps, about the man who stole four tires from a car in Norfolk, Virginia, and left a purse and a diamond ring untouched on the front seat, with the note: "Roses are red, violets are blue, we like your jewels but your tires are new." The papers said it was a case of a thief who had a flair for poetry. This is palpable nonsense. It was case of a poet who was willing to attempt any desperate thing, even larceny, in order to place his poem. Clearly, here was a man who had written something and then had gone up and down in the world seeking the precise situation which would activate his poem. It must have meant long nights and days of wandering before he found a car with jewels lying loose in the front seat and four good tires on the wheels. Poets endure much for the sake of their art. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat Fri Apr 5 02:06:28 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 23:06:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Readings at Connecticut College In-Reply-To: <116.f1effcb.29de5cc2@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020404230628.012286@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> If you're in the area and need directions or more info, email me at wjbat at conncoll.edu Note our own Jim Cervantes April 17: April 10, 7:30 p.m. Xue Di & Keith Waldrop April 17, 4:30 p.m. James Cervantes April 25, 7:30 p.m. Charles O. Hartman All readings in the Charles Chu Room, Shain Library, Connecticut College, New London CT. Call 860-439-2350 for more info. Xue Di is a native of Beijing. After taking part in the 1989 demonstrations in Tian'anmen Square, he left China and, since 1990, has been a fellow in Brown University's Freedom to Write program. He has published two books of poems in Chinese, contributed to many magazines, and is also known as anthologist and critic. His books, in English translation, are Flames (paradigm press, 1995; translated by Wang Ping, Iona Crook, & Keith Waldrop), Heart Into Soil (Burning Deck / Lost Roads, 1998; translated by Keith Waldrop with Wang Ping, Iona Crook, Janet Tan, & Hil Anderson), & Circumstances (Duration, 2000; translated by Keith Waldrop with Hil Anderson & Xue Di). Keith Waldrop is author of numerous collections of poetry and is the translator of The Selected Poems of Edmond Jabes, as well as works by Claude Royet-Journoud, Anne-Marie Albiach and Jean Grosjean. He has received fellowships from the National Endowment for the Arts and DAAD (Berlin). His titles include Hegel's Family, The Opposite of Letting the Mind Wander: Selected Poems and a Few Songs, Shipwreck in Haven, The Balustrade, Light While There is Light, The Locality Principle, Analogies of Escape and Haunt. James Cervantes' poems have appeared recently in The Boston Review, North American Review, Quarterly West, and other magazines. His books of poetry include The Headlong Future and The Year Is Approaching Snow. The publication of Live Music, a chapbook from Pecan Grove Press, is imminent. He is editor of the online journal The Salt River Review. Charles O. Hartman is the author of six books of poetry, including Glass Enclosure and The Long View (Wesleyan), and of Free Verse: An Essay on Prosody (Princeton/Northwestern) and Jazz/Text (Princeton). He is currently Poet in Residence at Connecticut College. From JforJames Fri Apr 5 10:39:42 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:39:42 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Carol Muske poem Message-ID: <130.c311020.29df1f3e@aol.com> A FRESCO All day I've been thinking of the grief on each of their faces, Adam and Eve. The feeling is closest to a wave as it peaks, how it seems on the verge of self-consciousness before it collapses. Their mouths hold a single sound that divides, familiar as rain. The angel points away from the green world behind them, out into the nave. I remember the woman standing there, turned to stone at the side altar, and the man next to her, the back of his overcoat on fire with reflected light. They stared straight ahead at The Expulsion and the cruel, distinct words passed between them. Tourists, a corsage at her heart, his brand new guidebook. What is startling is how the fresco works itself out from under the expectation of color. After a while in this air, the other spectrum emerges: no blues or reds but grades of dark and eerie white, as the paint thins and the lead extracts new expressions. They never raised their voices. The woman seemed like someone who had been loved, but without compassion. I don't know about the man. I recall the rest of that church now, how with small fierce gestures, votive fires were lit. The two figures burning in effigy. ---- (C) 1997 Carol Muske All Rights Reserved ISBN: 0 14 058.794 2 AN OCTAVE ABOVE THUNDER: New and Selected Poems Penguin Putnam Inc. From JforJames Fri Apr 5 12:21:25 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:21:25 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] April is the coolest month for poetry Message-ID: April is the coolest month for poetry Thu Apr 4,10:15 AM ET Deirdre Donahue USA TODAY Before you dismiss poetry as a relic from the past andignore April's designation as National Poetry Month, consider the facts: * Poetry Speaks, a lavish $49.95 book accompanied by threeaudio CDs of poets reading their work, sold 90,000 copies this past Christmas,according to Sourcebooks publisher Dominique Raccah. (The poets range fromAlfred Lord Tennyson to Sylvia Plath.) ''Poetry is subliminal music,'' Raccahsays. * Random House has been successfully releasing its The Voiceof the Poet series for the past four years. Edited by poet J.D. McClatchy, thisseason's offerings feature Langston Hughes, Adrienne Rich and Wallace Stevens.(Altogether, there are 12 in the series.) The $19.95 package offers a CD of thepoet reading his work, as well as a 64-page paperback with poems, photos and anessay on the poet by McClatchy, who edits The Yale Review. * Caedmon celebrates a half-century of recording the worksof poets and writers this month with the release of Dylan Thomas: The CaedmonCollection (Caedmon, $49.95, 11 CDs, 12 hours; $39.95 audio edition alsoavailable). U.S. Poet Laureate Billy Collins provides an introduction. HarperAudio associate publisher Carrie Kania says one of thefirst priorities has been using new digital technology to restore ahalf-century of historic recordings. Caedmon has just released the ArthurMiller collection ($29.95, four CDs). In June, it will release a rare find: arecording of James Joyce's voice. And new poets are being recorded: Nikki Giovanni will readthis fall. ''In the glut of images from TV and CNN, poetry speaks to aprivate, quiet center of the self,'' McClatchy says. Hearing a poet read hisown work, for example, has far more resonance because ''it's what they heard intheir mind's ear,'' he says. McClatchy drew on rare private recordings donatedto Yale. Poetry is infinitely enhanced by hearing the work read bythe poet. ''Poetry, above all, has to be read aloud to be understood,'' Kaniasays. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD Fri Apr 5 12:45:06 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:45:06 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry On Record Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DAF@mail.ripon.edu> About the book *Poetry Speaks*, which is indeed pretty cool, I do have one complaint. As I've cruised through the audio portion, I've found that some of the recordings on the CDs are pretty poor. I have a Dylan Thomas on cassette, for example, that is great: clear, strong voice, well-recorded. Yet at least one of the Thomas cuts on the *Poetry Speaks* CD (same poem) is terrible. It was obviously re-recorded off a scratchy old vinyl. Very disappointing. A couple other cuts have been similar. So caveat emptor. For a course I'll be teaching next fall, I'm looking for good poetry audio, and would welcome suggestions of favorites. I'm searching not only for good recordings of page-poetry (Dylan Thomas et al.), but also for spoken word stuff. For that matter, I'm also in the market for anthologies, individual collections, and video on the general topic of "poetry aloud." David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > > * Poetry Speaks, a lavish $49.95 book accompanied by threeaudio CDs of > poets reading their work, sold 90,000 copies this past Christmas,according > to Sourcebooks publisher Dominique Raccah. (The poets range fromAlfred > Lord Tennyson to Sylvia Plath.) ''Poetry is subliminal music,'' > Raccahsays. > > From bobgrumman Fri Apr 5 20:01:04 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:01:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anthology Plug References: <20020406000258.286A6B6E4@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <004c01c1dd06$87cbb0a0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Kathy Ernst, Scott Helmes, possibly Marilyn Rosenberg and I will be at Books are Books (265 Aragon Avenue, Coral Gables, Florida), which scuttlebutt says is the best bookstore in the Miami area. Marvin Sackner will also be there as well as Miami visual poet, Carlos Luis. It's a book launch and reading for WRITING TO BE SEEN, volume one, 328 11" by 8.5" pages, $24, the first full-scale visio-textual art anthology in the US in a quarter of a century. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn have work in it, I co-edited it. Other poets with work in it are Guy R. Beining, David Cole, William L. Fox, Bill Keith, Karl Kempton, Joel Lipman, Harry Polkinhorn, Carol Stetser and Karl Young. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn will also be participating in a similar event at Printed Matter 535 West 22nd St. New York, NY 10011 5-7 PM Saturday, May 4th, 2002 --Bob G. From bobgrumman Fri Apr 5 20:10:31 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:10:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anthology Plug--with Time & Date! Message-ID: <008001c1dd07$d9a71580$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Kathy Ernst, Scott Helmes, possibly Marilyn Rosenberg and I will be at Books are Books (265 Aragon Avenue, Coral Gables, Florida), which scuttlebutt says is the best bookstore in the Miami area, at 8 P.M., Friday, 12 April 2002. Marvin Sackner will also be there as well as Miami visual poet, Carlos Luis. It's a book launch and reading for WRITING TO BE SEEN, volume one, 328 11" by 8.5" pages, $24, the first full-scale visio-textual art anthology in the US in a quarter of a century. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn have work in it, I co-edited it. Other poets with work in it are Guy R. Beining, David Cole, William L. Fox, Bill Keith, Karl Kempton, Joel Lipman, Harry Polkinhorn, Carol Stetser and Karl Young. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn will also be participating in a similar event at Printed Matter 535 West 22nd St. New York, NY 10011 5-7 PM Saturday, May 4th, 2002 --Bob G. > > From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 01:52:10 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 23:52:10 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bogus digest and Avoiding Repeating Messages References: Message-ID: <3CAE9B17.E758C742@earthlink.net> Janet Holmes wrote: > I realize that knowing what statement each message is responding to is > useful to those of us with memories that are, I like to say, already > overloaded (rather than, erm, old) -- but maybe taking the time to erase > all the other ones that don't pertain any more would be a possible > compromise? One useful item of Netiquette is for the poster to quote only the pertinent part of what is being replied to. Therefore, instead of just repeating an entire message plus headers, one could cut-and-paste a paragraph or two and respond to that. This keeps both those who want to see what's being replied to and those who need to conserve space happy. I sympathize with Janet because once I belonged to an extremely active alumni email list, and I subscribed in digest form, and you would frequently see entire digests consisting of replies to one original post which kept getting quoted over and over and over again so many times it would be made up almost wholly of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moira Russell Seattle, WA From khodges Sat Apr 6 04:05:11 2002 From: khodges (Kim Hodges) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:05:11 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest In-Reply-To: <007e01c1db60$7e7dc6c0$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020406010359.022487b0@pop.softhome.net> At 04:40 PM 4/3/02 -0600, you wrote: >there's got to be a better way of handling mail messages on lists. Maybe >soon someone will come up with abetter way of handling them as we soon will >be paying for sending emails. I personally like to get the whole thread >when I get a message just as if it wasa reply posted on a bb. it helps my >mind organize all the info and it makes it easier to store if it's worth >saving. It's a fairly common occurence that people join lists because >they are interested in a topic and then quit when they get too many >messages. it's almost like they feel a moral obligation to read them all >rather than just delete? > >tom bell You can do this by saving the messages you are interested in (or all of them!) in your mail client. Then sort them by thread. Most mail clients will do this. Eudora does. - Kim From JforJames Sat Apr 6 10:21:10 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:21:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bogus digest and Avoiding Repeating Messages Message-ID: <40.1c044154.29e06c66@aol.com> In a message dated 4/6/02 2:48:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, odysseus34 at earthlink.net writes: << One useful item of Netiquette is for the poster to quote only the pertinent part of what is being replied to. Therefore, instead of just repeating an entire message plus headers, one could cut-and-paste a paragraph or two and respond to that. This keeps both those who want to see what's being replied to and those who need to conserve space happy. >> I agree with Moira's suggestion: Keeping to the essential text in the reply...discarding the excess matter. It may take a bit more time, but "cleaning up" your reply will probably be appreciated by others on the list. Re: the truncated digest My tech support helper (thank you, Len Hatfield) said he thought the problem was in the email system of the user (Janet's, in this case). I'm curious if others are having a similar problem....are getting only part of the digest? Please backchannel: JforJames at aol.com Right now our listserv software is set to kick out the digests when they hit 30 Kb or daily (whichever comes first). I'm not exactly certain how much text this equates to, but perhaps some of you have an opinion on the efficacy/efficiency of this setting? Let me know. Jim F From halvard Sat Apr 6 15:31:30 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:31:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" Message-ID: Hommage to Arthur Waley Seattle weather: it has rained for weeks in this town, The dampness breeding moths and a gray summer. I sit in the smoky room reading your book again, My eyes raw, hearing the trains steaming below me In the wet yard, and I wonder if you are still alive. Turning the worn pages, reading once more: "By misty waters and rainy sand, while the yellow dusk thickens." --Weldon Kees Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From grahamd Sat Apr 6 16:15:20 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 15:15:20 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homage to Homage Message-ID: <200204062114.g36LEan39970@mx3.mx.voyager.net> HOMAGE TO WELDON KEES --after his "Homage to Arthur Waley" Wisconsin fall: windows closed these three weeks, midnight chill you can still smell through the glass. I reach for your book naturally after midnight, work done, listening to the furnace click and halt in my walls, and I study your photo once more. Gazing down on that blueblack ocean you must have joined in 1955. Thinking "even the sound of the rain repeats: *The lease is up, the time is near*." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: "Halvard Johnson" >To: "New-Poetry" >Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" >Date: Sat, Apr 6, 2002, 2:31 PM > > >Hommage to Arthur Waley > >Seattle weather: it has rained for weeks in this town, >The dampness breeding moths and a gray summer. >I sit in the smoky room reading your book again, >My eyes raw, hearing the trains steaming below me >In the wet yard, and I wonder if you are still alive. >Turning the worn pages, reading once more: >"By misty waters and rainy sand, while the yellow dusk > thickens." > >--Weldon Kees > From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 16:09:51 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:09:51 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" References: Message-ID: <3CAF640B.8DD67AC@earthlink.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Hommage to Arthur Waley > > Seattle weather: it has rained for weeks in this town, > The dampness breeding moths and a gray summer. I like Weldon Kees. But in defense of my adopted hometown it actually rains less here annually than it does in NY or Chicago. It's just more spread out, a lot fewer thunderstorms. Summer tends to be hot! Yeah yeah, poetic license. Joke overheard in the UW bookstore on Thursday, which was gloriously sunny: "It's supposed to rain this weekend." "Damn." "You know what follows two days of rain in Seattle, don't you?" "What?" "Monday." Moira Russell who just rescued a hard copy ex-library of A.D. Hope's Collected from a used bookstore's dollar bin in Seattle, WA From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 16:21:15 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:21:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Somebody Else's Poem (SEP) References: Message-ID: <3CAF66B6.274CDA69@earthlink.net> X-RAY PHOTOGRAPH Mapped by its panoply of shade There is the skull I shall not see -- Dark hollow in its galaxy From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 16:28:48 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:28:48 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] SEP II References: Message-ID: <3CAF687A.121D0A6B@earthlink.net> Well, this is one of my favorite A.D. Hope poems, so I'll just inflict it on you all before I go out into our "Seattle weather," "mostly cloudy skies, with a few showers" and 13.50 in of rain since the first of the year. Moira Russell *** Meditation on a Bone A.D. Hope A piece of bone, found at Trondhjem in 1901, with the following runic inscription (about A.D. 1050) cut on it: I loved her as a maiden; I will not trouble Erlend's detestable wife; better she should be widow. Words scored upon a bone, Scratched in despair or rage -- Nine hundred years have gone; Now, in another age, They burn with passion on A scholar's tranquil page. The scholar takes his pen And turns the bone about, And writes those words again. Once more they seethe and shout And through a human brain Undying hate rings out. "I loved her when a maid; I loathe and love the wife That warms another's bed: Let him beware his life!" The scholar's hand is stayed; His pen becomes a knife To grave in living bone The fierce archaic cry. He sits and reads his own Dull sum of misery. A thousand years have flown Before that ink is dry. And, in a foreign tongue, A man, who is not he, Reads and his heart is wrung This ancient grief to see, And thinks: When I am dung, What bone shall speak for me? From marcus Sat Apr 6 22:57:31 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:57:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" In-Reply-To: <3CAF640B.8DD67AC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CAF7D5B.25263.11C7A7@localhost> > Moira Russell > who just rescued a hard copy ex-library of A.D. Hope's Collected from a > used bookstore's dollar bin in > Seattle, WA I'll give you two bucks for it and pay the postage. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Robtberner Sat Apr 6 23:49:50 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:49:50 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Homage to Homage Message-ID: <7c.25e0b31d.29e129ee@aol.com> Halvard Johnson posts "Homage To Arthur Waley" by Weldon Kees. David Graham followed with his own homage to Kees. Let me add this: Problems Of An Academic "I want to get away somewhere and re-read Kees," Said the Chairman of English to a Lady in Speech. But the pages brittled and crumbled, Superhighways ran on like rails in a cafeteria Through forests of refineries. Shuffling through halls Where blue windows like slits in bunkers Frame loony observers, a fantasy with testaments, You taste, intellect and spirit, the names of conglomerates, One burn-off flickering on those verses. "I want to get away somewhere and re-read Kees," Said a droog from Psych to a dwarf in Ed. Gulags with Guggenheims, Maidaneks with sabbaticals, One reads, as Christmas settles on the campus, New Yorker in the Faculty Commons. Robert Berner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 23:08:06 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 21:08:06 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" References: <3CAF7D5B.25263.11C7A7@localhost> Message-ID: <3CAFC624.A753AF85@earthlink.net> Marcus Bales wrote: > > Moira Russell > > who just rescued a hard copy ex-library of A.D. Hope's Collected from a > > used bookstore's dollar bin in > > Seattle, WA > > I'll give you two bucks for it and pay the postage. Sorry, ain't letting go of that one. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From aburack Sun Apr 7 10:56:41 2002 From: aburack (Alexandra Burack) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 10:56:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Crime Club" References: Message-ID: <002801c1de44$6dcedb20$900653c6@bzln101> Kudos to Halvard Johnson for sending along a poem by Weldon Kees, of whose fan club I am a charter member. Here's the Kees poem that hooked me; it's from his second book, The Fall of the Magicians: Crime Club No butler, no second maid, no blood upon the stair. No eccentric aunt, no gardener, no family friend Smiling among the bric-a-brac and murder. Only a suburban house with the front door open And a dog barking at a squirrel, and the cars Passing. The corpse quite dead. The wife in Florida. Consider the clues: the potato masher in a vase, The torn photograph of a Wesleyan basketball team, Scattered with check stubs in the hall; The unsent fan letter to Shirley Temple, The Hoover button on the lapel of the deceased, The note: "To be killed this way is quite all right with me." Small wonder that the case remains unsolved, Or that the sleuth, Le Roux, is now incurably insane, And sits alone in a white room in a white gown, Screaming that all the world is made, that clues Lead nowhere, or to walls so high their tops cannot be seen; Screaming all day of war, screaming that nothing can be solved. --Weldon Kees posted by Alexandra Burack From JforJames Sun Apr 7 14:33:01 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 14:33:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lyric Voice Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/02 12:40:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cvoisine at nmsu.edu writes: > become especially > interested in finding good essays/criticism about the lyric voice. I am > reading some of Frank O'Hara's prose and few other contemporary sources (orr > (Is there a term for a book that you can't find because it has fallen behind the other books on an overstacked shelf?) Late answer to Connie Voisine's question...A couple of good academic books dealing with the lyric: _The Idea of Lyric: Lyric Modes in Ancient and Modern Poetry_ by W. R. Johnson (U. of Cal. Press, 1982) Some chapter titles: Swans in Crystal: The Problem of Modern Lyric and Its Pronouns; Praise & Blame: Greek Lyric; In the Birdcage of the Muses: Acient Literary Lyric; The Amplitude of Time: Whitman and Modern Choral Here's a Johnson quote: "One complaint lodged against Sappho-- it is lodged against Emily Dickinson too, and that tells us something about the complaint--is that her range is narrow. Even if the charge could be proved, and it cannot, we would want to remember that lyric poetry cares nothing for breadth and width, everything for depth and height." & this collection of essays... _Lyric Poetry: Beyond New Criticism_, edited by Chaviva Hosek & Patricia Parker, includes essays by: Jonathan Culler, Paul De Man, Annabel Patterson, Stanley Fish, John Hollander, Cynthia Chase, Mary Nyquist, Frederic Jameson, Mary Jacobus, etc. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Sun Apr 7 15:49:32 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:49:32 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Crime Club" Message-ID: <1a2.4de25d.29e1fccc@cs.com> In a message dated 4/7/2002 9:58:08 AM Central Daylight Time, aburack at mail.slc.edu writes: > Kudos to Halvard Johnson for sending along a poem by Weldon Kees, of whose > fan club I am a charter member. > Surprisingly, Kees is one of the poets that Ian Hamilton writes about in Against Oblivion (available from Amazon UK). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sun Apr 7 15:56:34 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:56:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lyric Voice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: { (Is there a term for a book that you can't find because { it has fallen behind the other books on an overstacked shelf?) { Finnegan The briefest term is "lost book." There are, of course, longer terms, one of them being "that goddamned book I can never find around here anymore and probably lent to X, who never returned it, the bastard." Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard Sun Apr 7 16:27:31 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:27:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Kenneth Koch, "You Were Wearing" Message-ID: You Were Wearing You were wearing your Edgar Allan Poe printed cotton blouse. In each divided up square of the blouse was a picture of Edgar Allan Poe. Your hair was blonde and you were cute. You asked me, "Do most boys think that most girls are bad?" I smelled the mould of your seaside resort hotel bedroom on your hair held in place by a John Greenleaf Whittier clip. "No," I said, "it's girls who think that boys are bad." Then we read *Snowbound* together And ran around in an attic, so that a little of the blue enamel was scraped off my George Washington, Father of His Country, shoes. Mother was walking in the living room, her Strauss Waltzes comb in her hair. We waited for a time and then joined her, only to be served tea in cups painted with pictures of Herman Melville As well as with illustrations from his book *Moby Dick* and from his novella, *Benito Cereno*. Father came in wearing his Dick Tracy necktie: "How about a drink, everyone?" I said, "Let's go outside a while." Then we went onto the porch and sat on the Abraham Lincoln swing. You sat on the eyes, mouth, and beard part, and I sat on the knees. In the yard across the street we saw a snowman holding a garbage can lid smashed into a likeness of the mad English king, George the Third. --Kenneth Koch Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From JforJames Sun Apr 7 17:01:52 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 17:01:52 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lyric Voice Message-ID: <16f.baa276f.29e20dc0@aol.com> In a message dated 4/7/02 3:59:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: > The briefest term is "lost book." There are, of course, longer terms, > one of them being "that goddamned book I can never find around > here anymore and probably lent to X, who never returned it, the > bastard." > yeah, that s.o.b. has still got a few of mine too. This is probably not a revelation, but when I was looking (& looking & looking) for that Johnson title I realized that I wasn't reading any of the spines... I was looking for a book about 1" wide, a light blue covered paperback. I guess that's how we always search our own libraries... by size & color or texture...unless one's been diligent enuf to categorize and alphabetize. I've been on book buying tear of late...a used bookshop is moving out and has everything reduced by 75%...as if I need more temptation. In recent months the last two used bookshops in our town have moved out of their favorable retail trade spaces; not because they're losing money...but because they now make the majority of their sales via the internet and a high-priced lease wasn't worth it. They now have sequestered their operations in warehouse spaces (which in New England often means an old mill/factory). A pity, because browsing those massive stacks of books was half the fun for a desultory reader like me. There should be a term for the book we find while looking for another book, the "new" book suddenly seems like a gift or an uncovered treasure, only half-remembering that we actually bought this book 5 years ago and never got around to reading it. (What I found today was _The Tragic Myth: Lorca & Cante Jondo_ ) Anyway, I was thinking about what Borges said on this topic... "When I encounter a book in one of my favorite subject areas, like Old Norse, I often find myself picking it up, leafing thru it, and saying to myself what a pity I can't buy this book...but I already own it." Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From odysseus34 Sun Apr 7 16:23:11 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 13:23:11 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Crime Club" References: <1a2.4de25d.29e1fccc@cs.com> Message-ID: <3CB0AA87.F7C73B3D@earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sun Apr 7 17:49:24 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 17:49:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Evening of Poetry and Fiction Message-ID: AN EVENING OF POETRY AND FICTION IN THE WESTBETH COMMUNITY ROOM 155 Bank Street, West Village, New York City with Lynda Schor James V. Cervantes & Halvard Johnson Sunday, April 14, 2002 7 pm No Charge Information: 212-691-2764 or 212-691-6337 From TerryP17 Sun Apr 7 21:27:33 2002 From: TerryP17 (TerryP17 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:27:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope Message-ID: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> Moira-- Great poem from a relatively unknown poet, far better than Kees, in my book. Marcus offered you 2 bucks, but I'll offer you 4 plus postage. Or you could put it up on eBay. BTW, Robert Darling, a fine poet who teaches in the American Outback at Keuka College, has done some fine scholarly work on Hope. I'll dig up his email address and forward it to you offline if you're interested. --Terry Ponick From odysseus34 Sun Apr 7 21:53:56 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 18:53:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope References: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Isn't Hope great? I think "Return of Persephone" is probably my favorite of his -- turns it more into a beauty-and-beast theme. Geez, I wonder if I could get an auction going for the book on the list. I didn't mean to brag abt the price I got it for, I had just returned the book to the library and was amazed to see the very same edition sitting in the dollar bin of my favorite u-district used bookstore. V odd of them not to put it in with the regular poetry, but maybe they thought people would be bothered by the library card pocket. I would love to have the email add -- feel free to forward it! Long narratives are out of fashion; Sustained invention does not please; And sacred truth and moral passion Belong to former centuries. Yet epic stakes its reputation On public taste for things like these. Readers who give your poem a glance Will settle for a police romance. -- "Conversation with Calliope," A.D. Hope I was trying to think of better poets for poet laureate than Billy (ugh) Collins and all I could possibly come up with was Thom Gunn. Who would you nominate? just curious.... chrs moi TerryP17 at aol.com wrote: > Moira-- > > Great poem from a relatively unknown poet, far better than Kees, in my book. > Marcus offered you 2 bucks, but I'll offer you 4 plus postage. Or you could > put it up on eBay. > > BTW, Robert Darling, a fine poet who teaches in the American Outback at Keuka > College, has done some fine scholarly work on Hope. I'll dig up his email > address and forward it to you offline if you're interested. > > --Terry Ponick > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From odysseus34 Sun Apr 7 22:03:02 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 19:03:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope References: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB0FA51.21102A1C@earthlink.net> odysseus34 wrote: > Isn't Hope great? I think "Return of Persephone" is probably my favorite of his > -- turns it more into a beauty-and-beast theme. Choke. Well, obviously that was supposed to go to Terry, not the list. Sorry, folks. And just to reiterate, although I find the Hope offers touching, my next of kin can have this book when they pry it from my cold, dead, gnarly arthritic fingers. chrs moira From marcus Sun Apr 7 22:21:23 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:21:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope In-Reply-To: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB0C663.10877.25BBB92@localhost> > Great poem from a relatively unknown poet, far better than Kees, in my book. > Marcus offered you 2 bucks, but I'll offer you 4 plus postage. Or you could > put it up on eBay. Eight. And I'll pay for packaging as well as postage. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From marcus Sun Apr 7 22:24:05 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:24:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope In-Reply-To: <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB0C705.11310.25E325A@localhost> > Long narratives are out of fashion; > Sustained invention does not please; > And sacred truth and moral passion > Belong to former centuries. > Yet epic stakes its reputation > On public taste for things like these. > Readers who give your poem a glance > Will settle for a police romance. > -- "Conversation with Calliope," A.D. Hope From Robtberner Sun Apr 7 22:57:42 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:57:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees Message-ID: <14c.be2b54b.29e26126@aol.com> In a message date 4-27-02, Moira Russell writes that she only found out about Kees by reading (she thinks) Dana Gioia. I'm glad she discovered Kees, one of the best of the not-widely-knowns. But anyone who was ever a student in the Iowa workshop when Donald Justice was teaching there would have been exposed to Kees eventually. And this would go all the way back to 1960, when Justice edited and wrote an introduction to The Collected Poems Of Weldon Kees, published that year in a hand-set, limited edtion by Kim Merker at his Stone Wall Press. Justice championed Kees and recommended that everyone read him to see how he handled technical toughies like sestinas and villanelles as well as cultural and literary themes. And I'm sure that many if not most of those Iowa workshop grads ended up using something from Kees in their own classes. So it's good to see that people are still discovering Kees. He clearly will not remain in oblivion. He keeps re-emerging, and that's all to the good. Robert Berner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat Mon Apr 8 02:39:59 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:39:59 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query In-Reply-To: <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20020407233959.027481@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as well? I have to order books to be shipped to Greece for my reading & writing poetry course next fall, and the anthology I usually use is enormous. There used to be some serviceable small paperback anthologies, but I haven't seen any lately; everything available seems hopelessly specialized. I'll have plenty of poems on my computer to back and fill with for classes, but I want the students to have something eclectic to graze on through numerous field trips & travels. They'll have a bilingual modern Greek anthology as well. Any suggestions gratefully explored-- Wendy From grahamd Sun Apr 7 23:44:36 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 22:44:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Weldon Kees Message-ID: <200204080341.g383fbK58413@mx8.mx.voyager.net> I first read Kees in Berg & Mezey's goofily titled 1969 anthology, *Naked Poetry*. I remember buying it because one of the featured poets was Denise Levertov, my favorite at the time. You still see that book in the used shops from time to time, and, despite its sometimes shallow free-verse polemics, I believe it's aged better than many anthologies. In addition to Kees, *Naked Poetry* gave me my first or close-to-first exposure to Kenneth Rexroth, Philip Levine, Robert Creeley, Gary Snyder, and a number of others. The second edition added folks like Robert Duncan and Muriel Rukeyser, as I recall. It's still somewhat rare to find Kees featured in an anthology of the period. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Robtberner at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees Date: Sun, Apr 7, 2002, 9:57 PM In a message date 4-27-02, Moira Russell writes that she only found out about Kees by reading (she thinks) Dana Gioia. I'm glad she discovered Kees, one of the best of the not-widely-knowns. But anyone who was ever a student in the Iowa workshop when Donald Justice was teaching there would have been exposed to Kees eventually. And this would go all the way back to 1960, when Justice edited and wrote an introduction to The Collected Poems Of Weldon Kees, published that year in a hand-set, limited edtion by Kim Merker at his Stone Wall Press. Justice championed Kees and recommended that everyone read him to see how he handled technical toughies like sestinas and villanelles as well as cultural and literary themes. And I'm sure that many if not most of those Iowa workshop grads ended up using something from Kees in their own classes. So it's good to see that people are still discovering Kees. He clearly will not remain in oblivion. He keeps re-emerging, and that's all to the good. Robert Berner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Apr 7 23:49:44 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 22:49:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query Message-ID: <200204080349.g383nCg84276@mx12.mx.voyager.net> Well, Carruth's *Voice That Is Great Within Us* seems to be still in print. Hopelessly outdated, of course (it has to be 30 years old), but still among my favorites for its range and quirky choices. Better for the first half of the 20th Century, obviously, than for the latter half. I'd be very interested in other answers to this question myself. It's odd that nothing like Carruth's book has appeared, isn't it? David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: Wendy Battin >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query >Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 1:39 AM > >I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. >But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: > >Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry >anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as well? >I have to order books to be shipped to Greece for my reading & writing poetry >course next fall, and the anthology I usually use is enormous. There >used to be some serviceable small paperback anthologies, but I haven't >seen any lately; everything available seems hopelessly specialized. I'll >have plenty of poems on my computer to back and fill with for classes, >but I want the students to have something eclectic to graze on through >numerous field trips & travels. They'll have a bilingual modern Greek >anthology as well. > >Any suggestions gratefully explored-- > >Wendy From odysseus34 Mon Apr 8 00:06:23 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 21:06:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees References: <14c.be2b54b.29e26126@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB1173C.F776415E@earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmcvay Mon Apr 8 00:58:59 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 00:58:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Irreverent query, was Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope References: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB12392.62660A2E@patriot.net> Dear Hopeful ones, Was Hope known to have feathers? Signed, Wondering in Washington From tadrichards Mon Apr 8 07:49:52 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 07:49:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees References: <14c.be2b54b.29e26126@aol.com> <3CB1173C.F776415E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <039e01c1def3$7f1e5cc0$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Re: I'm not part of that specialized audience you mention. Moira Russell Seattle, WA In a sense, though, you benefited from the experience of that often-despised group. Anthologist Robert Mezey was a student of Donald Justice, and learned about Kees from him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards Mon Apr 8 07:55:56 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 07:55:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees References: <14c.be2b54b.29e26126@aol.com> <3CB1173C.F776415E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <03ae01c1def4$67c90ba0$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> There's an excellent Kees website at http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/NCW/kees.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From TerryP17 Mon Apr 8 09:51:50 2002 From: TerryP17 (TerryP17 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 09:51:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope Message-ID: <6D275C8D.5CAC7FF3.0083014E@aol.com> Moira-- Sorry you "outted" your intended offline message to the list, but no harm done, I think, plus we got to read another fugitive poem from Hope, and another one courtesy of Marcus. Poet Laureate instead of Collins? Well, there's an excellent candidate who occasionally lurks on this listserv. Skilled, profound, funny, topical, and able to engage form in a refreshing, contemporary manner. But I suspect he'd be unwilling to leave his safe house in Texas and move to Ground Zero for a year. By the way, forget cold dead fingers, and pay no attention to Marcus. I'll offer you ten, plus shipping and handling, and a ten percent commish if you shut off the bidding today. --Terry Ponick From marcus Mon Apr 8 11:09:44 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:09:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query In-Reply-To: <20020407233959.027481@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> References: <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB17A78.28469.21E22E@localhost> > I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. > But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: > > Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry > anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as well? Do you know Lawrence Perrine's "Sound and Sense"? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From marcus Mon Apr 8 11:09:44 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:09:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope In-Reply-To: <6D275C8D.5CAC7FF3.0083014E@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB17A78.27951.21E2B1@localhost> > By the way, forget cold dead fingers, and pay no attention to Marcus. I'll offer you ten, plus shipping and handling, and a ten percent commish if you shut off the bidding today.< Instead of money, how about any Hope poem of approximately 20 lines sandblasted into a piece of 1/2" glass with chamfered polished edges, suitable for desk-top display, similar to this: http://www.panamahank.com/vicky/ Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From halvard Mon Apr 8 11:24:19 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:24:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: James Wright, "Eisenhower's Visit to Franco, 1959" Message-ID: Eisenhower's Visit to Franco, 1959 " . . . we die of cold, and not of darkness." --Unamuno The American hero must triumph over The forces of darkness. He has flown through the very light of heaven And come down in the slow dusk Of Spain. Franco stands in a shining circle of police. His arms open in welcome. He promises all dark things Will be hunted down. State police yawn in the prisons. Antonio Machado follows the moon Down a road of white dust, To a cave of silent children Under the Pyrenees. Wine darkens in stone jars in villages. Wine sleeps in the mouths of old men, it is a dark red color. Smiles glitter in Madrid. Eisenhower has touched hands with Franco, embracing In a glare of photographers. Clean new bombers from America muffle their engines And glide down now. Their wings shine in the searchlights Of bare fields, In Spain. --James Wright, *The Branch Will Not Break*, 1963 Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From JforJames Mon Apr 8 16:53:37 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:53:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize for Poetry: Practical Gods by Carl Dennis Message-ID: <145.c88b423.29e35d51@aol.com> Fiction, Drama, Poetry Pulitzers Announced Mon Apr 8, 4:08 PM ET NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Pulitzer Prize for Fiction was awarded on Monday to Richard Russo for his book "Empire Falls", the Pulitzer Prize Board said. It also named the following winners at Columbia University: Suzan-Lori Parks, drama, for her play "Topdog/Underdog"; Louis Menand, history, for "The Metaphysical Club: A Story of Ideas in America"; David McCullough, biography, for his book "John Adams"; Carl Dennis, poetry, for his volume entitled "Practical Gods"; Diane McWhorter, general non-fiction, for her book "Carry Me Home: Birmingham, Alabama, the Climactic Battle of the Civil Rights Revolution"; and Henry Brant, music, for "Ice Field," premiered by the San Francisco Symphony on Dec. 12, 2001. From JforJames Mon Apr 8 17:34:01 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:34:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query Message-ID: <131.bd41942.29e366c9@aol.com> > I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. > > But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: > > > > Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry > > anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as well? I was thinking that there might be a suitable anthology published abroad...but all I could come with was... The Faber Book of Contemporary American Poetry Edited by: Helen Vendler Availability: Reprinting: no date Cover: Paperback (B format) ISBN: 0-571-13946-9 Price: ?9.99 An anthology of American poetry which covers the period from Wallace Stevens (born 1879) to Rita Dove (born 1952). The anthology includes work by only 35 poets which allows for a wide range of poems from each of the selected poets. From wjbat Mon Apr 8 20:39:14 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:39:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query In-Reply-To: <3CB17A78.28469.21E22E@localhost> Message-ID: <20020408173914.029777@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Marcus Bales wrote: >Do you know Lawrence Perrine's "Sound and Sense"? I had it in high school 3 decades ago. But I remember it as an intro to poetry rather than as an anthology. I hadn't thought of it as a college-level text. Wendy From GrahamD Mon Apr 8 17:50:50 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:50:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DBC@mail.ripon.edu> Sounds suspiciously like a repackaging of Vendler's *Harvard Book of Contemporary Poetry*, available on this side of the Atlantic only in a 400 page hardcover for $34. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: JforJames at aol.com > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, April 8, 2002 4:34 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] anthology query > > > > I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. > > > But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: > > > > > > Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry > > > anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as > well? > I was thinking that there might be a suitable anthology published > abroad...but all I could come with was... > The Faber Book of Contemporary American Poetry > Edited by: Helen Vendler > Availability: > Reprinting: no date Cover: > Paperback (B format) > ISBN: > 0-571-13946-9 > Price: > ?9.99 > > An anthology of American poetry which covers the period from Wallace > Stevens > (born 1879) to Rita Dove (born 1952). The anthology includes work by only > 35 > poets which allows for a wide range of poems from each of the selected > poets. > From mhb Mon Apr 8 18:47:18 2002 From: mhb (matthb) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:47:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize for Poetry: Practical Gods by Carl Dennis In-Reply-To: <145.c88b423.29e35d51@aol.com> Message-ID: > From: JforJames at aol.com > > Carl Dennis, poetry, for his volume entitled "Practical Gods"; I've not read this book. I enjoyed his earlier 'Ranking the Wishes' and recall reading at the time that each of his books has been of a different voice or style. RTW was what I would call a literal appreciation of the everyday. What kind of book is Practical Gods? -matt From grahamd Mon Apr 8 20:47:11 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 19:47:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Practical Gods by Carl Dennis Message-ID: <200204090046.g390keU66772@mx17.mx.voyager.net> The God Who Loves You It must be troubling for the god who loves you To ponder how much happier you'd be today Had you been able to glimpse your many futures. It must be painful for him to watch you on Friday evenings Driving home from the office, content with your week? Three fine houses sold to deserving families? Knowing as he does exactly what would have happened Had you gone to your second choice for college, Knowing the roommate you'd have been allotted Whose ardent opinions on painting and music Would have kindled in you a lifelong passion. A life thirty points above the life you're living On any scale of satisfaction. And every point A thorn in the side of the god who loves you. You don't want that, a large-souled man like you Who tries to withhold from your wife the day's disappointments So she can save her empathy for the children. And would you want this god to compare your wife With the woman you were destined to meet on the other campus? It hurts you to think of him ranking the conversation You'd have enjoyed over there higher in insight Than the conversation you're used to. And think how this loving god would feel Knowing that the man next in line for your wife Would have pleased her more than you ever will Even on your best days, when you really try. Can you sleep at night believing a god like that Is pacing his cloudy bedroom, harassed by alternatives You're spared by ignorance? The difference between what is And what could have been will remain alive for him Even after you cease existing, after you catch a chill Running out in the snow for the morning paper, Losing eleven years that the god who loves you Will feel compelled to imagine scene by scene Unless you come to the rescue by imagining him No wiser than you are, no god at all, only a friend No closer than the actual friend you made at college, The one you haven't written in months. Sit down tonight And write him about the life you can talk about With a claim to authority, the life you've witnessed, Which for all you know is the life you've chosen. -- Carl Dennis. *Practical Gods*. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: matthb >To: >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize for Poetry: Practical Gods by Carl Dennis >Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 5:47 PM > >> >> Carl Dennis, poetry, for his volume entitled "Practical Gods"; > >I've not read this book. I enjoyed his earlier 'Ranking the Wishes' and >recall reading at the time that each of his books has been of a different >voice or style. RTW was what I would call a literal appreciation of the >everyday. What kind of book is Practical Gods? > >-matt From marcus Mon Apr 8 21:48:00 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:48:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query In-Reply-To: <20020408173914.029777@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> References: <3CB17A78.28469.21E22E@localhost> Message-ID: <3CB21010.8220.1E32B4@localhost> > Marcus Bales wrote: > >Do you know Lawrence Perrine's "Sound and Sense"? > > I had it in high school 3 decades ago. But I remember it as an intro to > poetry rather than as an anthology. I hadn't thought of it as a > college-level text. > Wendy It's very good; it has a large number of significant poems in it, and they're well-selected. The index allows you to read the poems by author, thought the organization of the book is by poetic effect. It's been through several revisions since your high school days, too. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From rloden Mon Apr 8 22:30:51 2002 From: rloden (Rachel Loden) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:30:51 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Unamuno line (was Poems by Others: James Wright, "Eisenhower's Visit to Franco, 1959") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c1df6e$930ec5a0$61010140@default> Hal, thanks for that. Oddly enough, that same Unamuno line (in a slightly different translation) figures in my poem "Blues for the Evil Empire." If I were rewriting it today, maybe I'd replace the phrase "red and rising sun" with "star and crescent moon." Or suchlike. Which is not to doubt the existence of Dr. Evil. Speaking of which, was anyone else amused to read in a recent bio that George W., while not particularly conversant with many cultural references, knows the Austin Powers movies by heart and loves to put his pinkie to his lips, a la Austin's nemesis? Here's the poem--stars indicate italics . . . BLUES FOR THE EVIL EMPIRE *with a line by Unamuno* Consider the late *Eurasian entity*, how it lumbered into the groggy arms of history where it was buried. Which is more than you can say for Lenin?s body, chilly like a mammoth in an ice floe, if less hairy. An old man in the square asks ?Who is laughing at us?? then drifts unevenly away. The czar?s nephew comes alive in Finland like some cyborg, sent into the future with a mission to annoy; there are the plagues: evangelists, economists, and experts of all kinds, Americans who read the future in a glass of tea, and analyze ?the Slavic mind.? At home, cold warriors, like dying jellyfish, grow dim. Why no joy in Washington, no dancing in the streets--we ?won,? but sleep uneasy in our victory. The evil empire, vanquished, seeks a plusher berth within--a red and rising sun? A few blocks from the White House, my city twists and keens, and someone?s child is bought and sold. --*We do not die of darkness, but of the cold*. Rachel Loden from _Hotel Imperium_ (University of Georgia Press) > Eisenhower's Visit to Franco, 1959 > > " . . . we die of cold, and not of darkness." > --Unamuno From JackKerouac25 Mon Apr 8 23:07:07 2002 From: JackKerouac25 (JackKerouac25 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 23:07:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query Message-ID: <7a.24f5ba07.29e3b4db@aol.com> Is *Sound and Sense* the book that the Robin Williams character rips to shreds in *Dead Poet's Society*? This post in no way attacks or defends the book--it's innocent, if such thing as an innocent post can exist. JLN In a message dated 4/8/02 8:40:24 PM Central Daylight Time, marcus at designerglass.com writes: > It's very good; it has a large number of significant poems in it, and > they're well-selected. The index allows you to read the poems by > author, thought the organization of the book is by poetic effect. It's > been through several revisions since your high school days, too. > > > > Marcus Bales Jeffrey L. Newberry *Deleted So that Certain Parties May not Be Offended* Department of English and Foreign Languages University of West Florida 11000 University Parkway Pensacola, FL 32514 850.474.2923 850.473.7330 From grahamd Tue Apr 9 00:09:20 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 23:09:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query II Message-ID: <200204090408.g3948qa63455@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Straying even further from Wendy's original query, I'd be interested in what poetry anthologies the teachers among us favor, and why. I used Perrine's many years and editions ago. It's one of the big monsters--which I have gravitated away from over the years. As much as I admire the X. J. Kennedy, the Donald Hall, and other baggy intro books, I find that I never feel I do justice to them. (Perrine is currently about $45 and 400+ pages in paperback.) So I've been looking for smaller and cheaper books. Among the more compact general anthologies, two strike me as superior. Sam Gwynn's *Poetry: A Pocket Anthology* is very well done. But its over-$20 price tag may be a concern for some. Far fewer poems (154 to Sam's 250) are found in Joseph Kelly's *Seagull Reader: Poems*, but it's considerably cheaper than the pocket antho--listing for $10 at the moment. I like such anthologies for multi-genre courses, such as the freshman comp/intro to lit course that I regularly teach. For creative writing courses or American lit classes I try to avoid big anthologies in favor of individual collections and the occasional themed anthology. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Straying back to Wendy's original query, I've been using a lot of Dover Thrift Editions lately, in a variety of courses. Since these sell for a dollar or two each, it's easy to put together a lot of material cheaply. One drawback, of course, is that Dover Thrifts focus on public domain work--which doesn't get you very far into the 20th century. But there are some worthy anthologies (*Great Poems By American Women*, *Imagist Poetry*, *Great Short Poems*, *Civil War Poetry*, *World War I British Poets*, *Great Sonnets*, *101 Great American Poems*) as well as individual volumes by Frost, Stevens, Yeats, Pound, Millay, Lawrence, Williams, Hardy, and earlier poets. This term in my early American Lit class I'm using the Dover "Song of Myself" in the1855 edition, as well as their collections of Emerson's & Bradstreet's poems. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== >> It's very good; it has a large number of significant poems in it, and >> they're well-selected. The index allows you to read the poems by >> author, thought the organization of the book is by poetic effect. It's >> been through several revisions since your high school days, too. >> >> >> >> Marcus Bales > From tadrichards Tue Apr 9 01:17:26 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 01:17:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query II References: <200204090408.g3948qa63455@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <000701c1df85$d6c89ac0$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Well, more and more, if I'm teaching the public domain classics, I just set up a website and post what I want them to read. It depends on the course. If it's an intro course, sometimes I'll use Oscar Williams Mentor Major British, and Carruth -- that gives a wide variety. This semester, for Lit Genres Poetry and Fiction, which is my intro class, for the poetry I used Oscar Williams, my own selection of blues lyrics, and books by Nancy Willard and Billy Collins. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 12:09 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query II > Straying even further from Wendy's original query, I'd be interested in what > poetry anthologies the teachers among us favor, and why. > > I used Perrine's many years and editions ago. It's one of the big > monsters--which I have gravitated away from over the years. As much as I > admire the X. J. Kennedy, the Donald Hall, and other baggy intro books, I > find that I never feel I do justice to them. (Perrine is currently about > $45 and 400+ pages in paperback.) So I've been looking for smaller and > cheaper books. > > Among the more compact general anthologies, two strike me as superior. Sam > Gwynn's *Poetry: A Pocket Anthology* is very well done. But its over-$20 > price tag may be a concern for some. > > Far fewer poems (154 to Sam's 250) are found in Joseph Kelly's *Seagull > Reader: Poems*, but it's considerably cheaper than the pocket > antho--listing for $10 at the moment. > > I like such anthologies for multi-genre courses, such as the freshman > comp/intro to lit course that I regularly teach. For creative writing > courses or American lit classes I try to avoid big anthologies in favor of > individual collections and the occasional themed anthology. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * > > Straying back to Wendy's original query, I've been using a lot of Dover > Thrift Editions lately, in a variety of courses. Since these sell for a > dollar or two each, it's easy to put together a lot of material cheaply. > > One drawback, of course, is that Dover Thrifts focus on public domain > work--which doesn't get you very far into the 20th century. > > But there are some worthy anthologies (*Great Poems By American Women*, > *Imagist Poetry*, *Great Short Poems*, *Civil War Poetry*, *World War I > British Poets*, *Great Sonnets*, *101 Great American Poems*) as well as > individual volumes by Frost, Stevens, Yeats, Pound, Millay, Lawrence, > Williams, Hardy, and earlier poets. > > This term in my early American Lit class I'm using the Dover "Song of > Myself" in the1855 edition, as well as their collections of Emerson's & > Bradstreet's poems. > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > >> It's very good; it has a large number of significant poems in it, and > >> they're well-selected. The index allows you to read the poems by > >> author, thought the organization of the book is by poetic effect. It's > >> been through several revisions since your high school days, too. > >> > >> > >> > >> Marcus Bales > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Tue Apr 9 06:04:22 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 06:04:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Practical Gods by Carl Dennis References: <200204090046.g390keU66772@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <001001c1dfad$ed150ac0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Definitely Pultzer Prize material --Bob G. > The God Who Loves You > > It must be troubling for the god who loves you > To ponder how much happier you'd be today > Had you been able to glimpse your many futures. > It must be painful for him to watch you on Friday evenings > Driving home from the office, content with your week< > Three fine houses sold to deserving families< > Knowing as he does exactly what would have happened > Had you gone to your second choice for college, > Knowing the roommate you'd have been allotted > Whose ardent opinions on painting and music > Would have kindled in you a lifelong passion. > A life thirty points above the life you're living > On any scale of satisfaction. And every point > A thorn in the side of the god who loves you. > You don't want that, a large-souled man like you > Who tries to withhold from your wife the day's disappointments > So she can save her empathy for the children. > And would you want this god to compare your wife > With the woman you were destined to meet on the other campus? > It hurts you to think of him ranking the conversation > You'd have enjoyed over there higher in insight > Than the conversation you're used to. > And think how this loving god would feel > Knowing that the man next in line for your wife > Would have pleased her more than you ever will > Even on your best days, when you really try. > Can you sleep at night believing a god like that > Is pacing his cloudy bedroom, harassed by alternatives > You're spared by ignorance? The difference between what is > And what could have been will remain alive for him > Even after you cease existing, after you catch a chill > Running out in the snow for the morning paper, > Losing eleven years that the god who loves you > Will feel compelled to imagine scene by scene > Unless you come to the rescue by imagining him > No wiser than you are, no god at all, only a friend > No closer than the actual friend you made at college, > The one you haven't written in months. Sit down tonight > And write him about the life you can talk about > With a claim to authority, the life you've witnessed, > Which for all you know is the life you've chosen. > > -- Carl Dennis. *Practical Gods*. > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > > ---------- > >From: matthb > >To: > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize for Poetry: Practical Gods by Carl Dennis > >Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 5:47 PM > > > >> > >> Carl Dennis, poetry, for his volume entitled "Practical Gods"; > > > >I've not read this book. I enjoyed his earlier 'Ranking the Wishes' and > >recall reading at the time that each of his books has been of a different > >voice or style. RTW was what I would call a literal appreciation of the > >everyday. What kind of book is Practical Gods? > > > >-matt > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From barr Tue Apr 9 06:44:43 2002 From: barr (Brandon Thomas Barr) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 06:44:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query II In-Reply-To: <200204090408.g3948qa63455@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: i prefer nelson's Anthology of Modern Poetry--very open and diverse selections. for pure breadth, i like the two volume Poems for the Millenium set by Berkeley UP. but for most intro classes, i find it best to link my syllabus to www.poets.org and then suplement from there... brandon From halvard Tue Apr 9 08:45:28 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 08:45:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Alice Fulton, "Your Card Read 'Poet-Mechanic'" Message-ID: Your Card Read "Poet-Mechanic" the day you came carrying a two-cylinder slice of winter sun on your back, toolcase with a greasy lock in your spoon-shaped fingers said you could do anything with your hands & went right to work, using nouns as furniture, assembling verbs into go-carts & motorcycles till they roared off, followed by a gang of sycophant adverbs. The few transitives that remained you turned into trampolines & the expletives jumped on them all day. When I watched you build "vituperate" into a Harley-Davidson, I knew it was goodbye. Now there're just the adjectives all day primping singing choruses of popsongs. I want to shake them & say "Have you no respect for the magnificent lexicon you represent?" But "magnificent" is in the bathroom humming be-bop-a-lula. --Alice Fulton, *Dance Script with Electric Ballerina*, 1983 From Serbpoet Tue Apr 9 09:28:28 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:28:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Milosz Collected Poems Message-ID: After September 11, I could read everything except the news, terrible news no longer. A perpetual reader of New Yorker, opened as by magic with a poetry by Milosz. I think that it was the first or second poetry, which followed the World Towers bombardments. Poetry provided one of these rare moments, one believes by the converted words, in which the life is, to still live, because somebody indicated so much admirably that life was still in value for continuing. I do not even to know, if Milosz specifically noted this poetry in the retort, which to the reader the affect produced of September 11 can even present to us. Nevertheless since, reading this book I have peace, not only of the fear of the destruction by accident, but the concessions of the crucial destruction of death. Anna V. From Serbpoet Tue Apr 9 09:48:35 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:48:35 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Milosz Message-ID: <184.6754e4d.29e44b33@aol.com> I will add only to the former that Milosz accumulation of poetry is the pure transcendence. I was frightened with the quality of these poems -- as the werey preselected and arranged -- as well as the translations. These poems had been really written into a language to the exception English? It does not seem therefore here. I could not anticipate the nuance or echo exactly present to the eye, which was lost in this work. Which seems to me more logical than preceding accumulations of Milosz and the poems form the free area here to it that the Nobel in Literature earned. Milosz is a Prophet and more to a soothsayer upon the modern age. With this collection, although its dollar price is high, each poem is economically necessary and intelligent; financially it does not have no value, which could estimate greatly the value of this accumulation. The most interesting aspect of this expenditure recognizes familiar poems of Milosz juxtaposed with its work later (2000). Even the most laterly work has the depth of the lived experience and the ripe perfectness of one of the more patient notes on the nature of the human condition. Its strength meets in its approximation to the elementary topics: death, love, soul. From Serbpoet Tue Apr 9 11:33:15 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:33:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Anthologies--How To Make a Poem, Mark Strand Message-ID: <7f.24354e36.29e463bb@aol.com> The Making of a Poem is the best of the present how/ to read a poetry books. Elaborated from two of our larger poets living, one Irish and woman, the other American and that male, the book they composed in the editing process comprises: 1. poetic shapes--the sonnet, the ballad, the sestina, the villanelle, blank verse, the stanza-- and 2. an Anthology. Eavan Boland and Mark Strand, such as they are, offer an introduction and it gives you every understanding of poetic lines or, to say much the same thing, the small vague shapes of thought and meditation. Thereafter , a priori, it directs the inexpert student of poems to poetic structures as they are not produced from a specific rhyme and/or metric champion but by content: the elegy, for a foremost example, or the pastoral or ode. The book then concludes with one section on opened shapes. Every simply defined subject has, as they mean us to agree, a specific side and gives "the ballad on one seen" (or, for on this transaction, pantoum)--a general form, the structure being an analogy to the shape, etc. A side or two on the history of the shape follows, like a purely famous example or a short one "to the contemporary context", as is therefore relegated to a chronological Anthologie of the exposures of numerous poems of each of the determined shapes. Everything from Shakespeare's "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" to Seamus Heaney's gay "The Haw Lantern" to Mary Jo Salter's playful "Half a Double Sonnet." The section then concludes with another brief analysis of one example of a shape. In this spot, the villanelle features a side of Elizabeth Bishop's classic , "One Art," and a blank verse gives us far too brief a take on Robert Frost's tantalizing "Directive." Itself worth the price of his admission, the poem begins: Back out of all this now too much for us, Back in a time made simply by the loss of detail, burned, dissolved, and broken off Like graveyard marble sculpture in the weather, There is a house that is no more than a house Upon a farm that is no more than a farm And in a town that is no more than a town. Such a one of a disposition as to be engaged can see the ready advantages and limitations: The definitions are held leanly and at times approach healthy poem-bites and even shorter poem-bites for a readership frequently more journalism-accustomed than familiar to the complexities of Dante (its agonies of emotion and craft). All the this is similar to an attempt to catch up to a public of the participants of the university and of the readers it generates out of them. While more information could aid anyone (additional terse comments on why certain poems in the anthology are defined as odes, pastorals, or elegies, as an exclusive example), the bottom line is the final result, that To Make a Poem deposits an excellent job of taking the inexpert reader to the inside of the intuitive thought process. Anna From Serbpoet Tue Apr 9 14:12:36 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:12:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others--Vladimir Czensziskwiki Message-ID: (Pardon for an imperfect translation. Robert Bly and Mark Strand has both translated others. Perhaps some feeling is transferred to the searching, yet not so fastidious, mind in the attempt of myself.) Introduction to a Poetry I ask to take a poem and blow, as like a conch shell held up to the mouth, empty of words. Or to operate an ear upon its secret telepathy. I listen into a poem and hear it--the sea-- to eavesdrop it-- or as if to sink within the spiraled zone of the poem's underwater hearing. Silent noise which moves at the name of the author on the beach, wavelike. From GrahamD Tue Apr 9 14:55:17 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:55:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sic Transit Pulitzer Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC0@mail.ripon.edu> Students of Gloria Mundi may be interested in this list of the winners of the Pulitzer Prize in poetry, taken from the Pulitzer site. George Dillon, we hardly knew you. . . . One surprise to me, seeing the full list, was how many multiple winners we have had. Frost, Robinson, MacLeish, Benet, Lowell, Warren, and Richard Wilbur most recently. If she had won this year, Gluck (who was nominated) would have been another. This year's nominees were Dennis, Gluck, and Franz Wright. Jurors were Donald Justice, Wendy Lesser, and Wesley McNair. -------------------------------- 1923 The Ballad of the Harp-Weaver: A Few Figs from Thistles: Eight Sonnets in American Poetry, 1922. A Miscellany by Edna St. Vincent Millay (Harper) 1924 New Hampshire: A Poem with Notes and Grace Notes by Robert Frost (Holt) 1925 The Man Who Died Twice by Edwin Arlington Robinson (Macmillan) 1926 What's O'Clock by the late Amy Lowell (Houghton) 1927 Fiddler's Farewell by Leonora Speyer (Knopf) 1928 Tristram by Edwin Arlington Robinson (Macmillan) 1929 John Browns Body by Stephen Vincent Benet (Farrar) 1930 Selected Poems by Conrad Aiken (Scribner) 1931 Collected Poems by Robert Frost (Holt) 1932 The Flowering Stone by George Dillon (Viking) 1933 Conquistador by Archibald Macleish (Houghton) 1934 Collected Verse by Robert Hillyer (Knopf) 1935 Bright Ambush by Audrey Wurdemann (John Day) 1936 Strange Holiness by Robert P. Tristram Coffin (Macmillan) 1937 A Further Range by Robert Frost (Holt) 1938 Cold Morning Sky by Marya Zaturenska (Macmillan) 1939 Selected Poems by John Gould Fletcher (Farrar) 1940 Collected Poems by Mark Van Doren (Holt) 1941 Sunderland Capture by Leonard Bacon (Harper) 1942 The Dust Which Is God by William Rose Benet (Dodd) 1943 A Witness Tree by Robert Frost (Holt) 1944 Western Star by the late Stephen Vincent Benet (Farrar) 1945 V-Letter and Other Poems by Karl Shapiro (Reynal) 1946 (No Award) 1947 Lord Weary's Castle by Robert Lowell (Harcourt) 1948 The Age of Anxiety by W. H. Auden (Random) 1949 Terror and Decorum by Peter Viereck (Scribner) 1950 Annie Allen by Gwendolyn Brooks (Harper) 1951 Complete Poems by Carl Sandburg (Harcourt) 1952 Collected Poems by Marianne Moore (Macmillan) 1953 Collected Poems 1917-1952 by Archibald MacLeish (Houghton) 1954 The Waking by Theodore Roethke (Doubleday) 1955 Collected Poems by Wallace Stevens (Knopf) 1956 Poems - North & South by Elizabeth Bishop (Houghton) 1957 Things of This World by Richard Wilbur (Harcourt) 1958 Promises: Poems 1954-1956 by Robert Penn Warren (Random) 1959 Selected Poems 1928-1958 by Stanley Kunitz (Little) 1960 Heart's Needle by W. D. Snodgrass (Knopf) 1961 Times Three: Selected Verse From Three Decades by Phyllis McGinley (Viking) 1962 Poems by Alan Dugan (Yale Univ. Press) 1963 Pictures from Breughel by the late William Carlos Williams (New Directions) 1964 At The End Of The Open Road by Louis Simpson (Wesleyan Univ. Press) 1965 77 Dream Songs by John Berryman (Farrar) 1966 Selected Poems by Richard Eberhart (New Directions) 1967 Live or Die by Anne Sexton (Houghton) 1968 The Hard Hours by Anthony Hecht (Atheneum) 1969 Of Being Numerous by George Oppen (New Directions) 1970 Untitled Subjects by Richard Howard (Atheneum) 1971 The Carrier of Ladders by William S. Merwin (Atheneum) 1972 Collected Poems by James Wright (Wesleyan Univ. Press) 1973 Up Country by Maxine Kumin (Harper) 1974 The Dolphin by Robert Lowell (Farrar) 1975 Turtle Island by Gary Snyder (New Directions) 1976 Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror by John Ashbery (Viking) 1977 Divine Comedies by James Merrill (Atheneum) 1978 Collected Poems by Howard Nemerov (Univ. of Chicago) 1979 Now and Then by Robert Penn Warren (Random) 1980 Selected Poems by Donald Justice (Atheneum) 1981 The Morning of the Poem by James Schuyler (Farrar, Straus) 1982 The Collected Poems by the late Sylvia Plath (a posthumous publication) (Harper & Row) 1983 Selected Poems by Galway Kinnell (Houghton Mifflin) 1984 American Primitive by Mary Oliver (Atlantic-Little, Brown) 1985 Yin by Carolyn Kizer (BOA Editions) 1986 The Flying Change by Henry Taylor (Louisiana State University Press) 1987 Thomas and Beulah by Rita Dove (Carnegie-Mellon University Press) 1988 Partial Accounts: New and Selected Poems by William Meredith (Alfred A. Knopf) 1989 New and Collected Poems by Richard Wilbur (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich) 1990 The World Doesn't End by Charles Simic (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich) 1991 Near Changes by Mona Van Duyn (Alfred A. Knopf) 1992 Selected Poems by James Tate (Wesleyan University Press) 1993 The Wild Iris by Louise Gluck (The Ecco Press) 1994 Neon Vernacular: New and Selected Poems by Yusef Komunyakaa (Wesleyan University Press/University Press of New England) 1995 The Simple Truth by Philip Levine (Alfred A. Knopf) 1996 The Dream of the Unified Field by Jorie Graham (The Ecco Press) 1997 Alive Together: New and Selected Poems by Lisel Mueller (Louisiana State University Press) 1998 Black Zodiac by Charles Wright (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) 1999 Blizzard of One by Mark Strand (Alfred A. Knopf) 2000 Repair by C.K. Williams (Farrar, Straus and Giroux) 2001 Different Hours by Stephen Dunn (W.W. Norton & Company) 2002 Practical Gods by Carl Dennis (Penguin Books) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From languagethief Tue Apr 9 15:20:43 2002 From: languagethief (The Old Mole) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 12:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sic Transit Pulitzer In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC0@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <20020409192043.18192.qmail@web12201.mail.yahoo.com> It's not such a bad list. It would be interesting to see who was on the short lists that the winners beat out. --- "Graham, David" wrote: > Students of Gloria Mundi may be interested in this > list of the winners of > the Pulitzer Prize in poetry, taken from the > Pulitzer site. George Dillon, > we hardly knew you. . . . > > One surprise to me, seeing the full list, was how > many multiple winners we > have had. Frost, Robinson, MacLeish, Benet, Lowell, > Warren, and Richard > Wilbur most recently. If she had won this year, > Gluck (who was nominated) > would have been another. > > This year's nominees were Dennis, Gluck, and Franz > Wright. Jurors were > Donald Justice, Wendy Lesser, and Wesley McNair. > > -------------------------------- > 1923 The Ballad of the Harp-Weaver: A Few Figs from > Thistles: Eight Sonnets > in American Poetry, 1922. A Miscellany by Edna St. > Vincent Millay (Harper) > > 1924 New Hampshire: A Poem with Notes and Grace > Notes by Robert Frost (Holt) > > 1925 The Man Who Died Twice by Edwin Arlington > Robinson (Macmillan) > > 1926 What's O'Clock by the late Amy Lowell > (Houghton) > > 1927 Fiddler's Farewell by Leonora Speyer (Knopf) > > 1928 Tristram by Edwin Arlington Robinson > (Macmillan) > > 1929 John Browns Body by Stephen Vincent Benet > (Farrar) > > 1930 Selected Poems by Conrad Aiken (Scribner) > > 1931 Collected Poems by Robert Frost (Holt) > > 1932 The Flowering Stone by George Dillon (Viking) > > 1933 Conquistador by Archibald Macleish (Houghton) > > 1934 Collected Verse by Robert Hillyer (Knopf) > 1935 Bright Ambush by Audrey Wurdemann (John Day) > > 1936 Strange Holiness by Robert P. Tristram Coffin > (Macmillan) > > 1937 A Further Range by Robert Frost (Holt) > > 1938 Cold Morning Sky by Marya Zaturenska > (Macmillan) > > 1939 Selected Poems by John Gould Fletcher (Farrar) > > 1940 Collected Poems by Mark Van Doren (Holt) > > 1941 Sunderland Capture by Leonard Bacon (Harper) > > 1942 The Dust Which Is God by William Rose Benet > (Dodd) > > 1943 A Witness Tree by Robert Frost (Holt) > > 1944 Western Star by the late Stephen Vincent Benet > (Farrar) > > 1945 V-Letter and Other Poems by Karl Shapiro > (Reynal) > > 1946 (No Award) > > 1947 Lord Weary's Castle by Robert Lowell (Harcourt) > > 1948 The Age of Anxiety by W. H. Auden (Random) > > 1949 Terror and Decorum by Peter Viereck (Scribner) > > 1950 Annie Allen by Gwendolyn Brooks (Harper) > > 1951 Complete Poems by Carl Sandburg (Harcourt) > > 1952 Collected Poems by Marianne Moore (Macmillan) > > 1953 Collected Poems 1917-1952 by Archibald MacLeish > (Houghton) > > 1954 The Waking by Theodore Roethke (Doubleday) > > 1955 Collected Poems by Wallace Stevens (Knopf) > > 1956 Poems - North & South by Elizabeth Bishop > (Houghton) > > 1957 Things of This World by Richard Wilbur > (Harcourt) > > 1958 Promises: Poems 1954-1956 by Robert Penn Warren > (Random) > > 1959 Selected Poems 1928-1958 by Stanley Kunitz > (Little) > > 1960 Heart's Needle by W. D. Snodgrass (Knopf) > > 1961 Times Three: Selected Verse From Three Decades > by Phyllis McGinley > (Viking) > > 1962 Poems by Alan Dugan (Yale Univ. Press) > > 1963 Pictures from Breughel by the late William > Carlos Williams (New > Directions) > > 1964 At The End Of The Open Road by Louis Simpson > (Wesleyan Univ. Press) > > 1965 77 Dream Songs by John Berryman (Farrar) > > 1966 Selected Poems by Richard Eberhart (New > Directions) > > 1967 Live or Die by Anne Sexton (Houghton) > > 1968 The Hard Hours by Anthony Hecht (Atheneum) > > 1969 Of Being Numerous by George Oppen (New > Directions) > > 1970 Untitled Subjects by Richard Howard (Atheneum) > > 1971 The Carrier of Ladders by William S. Merwin > (Atheneum) > > 1972 Collected Poems by James Wright (Wesleyan Univ. > Press) > > 1973 Up Country by Maxine Kumin (Harper) > > 1974 The Dolphin by Robert Lowell (Farrar) > > 1975 Turtle Island by Gary Snyder (New Directions) > > 1976 Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror by John > Ashbery (Viking) > > 1977 Divine Comedies by James Merrill (Atheneum) > > 1978 Collected Poems by Howard Nemerov (Univ. of > Chicago) > > 1979 Now and Then by Robert Penn Warren (Random) > > 1980 Selected Poems by Donald Justice (Atheneum) > > 1981 The Morning of the Poem by James Schuyler > (Farrar, Straus) > > 1982 The Collected Poems by the late Sylvia Plath (a > posthumous publication) > (Harper & Row) > > 1983 Selected Poems by Galway Kinnell (Houghton > Mifflin) > > 1984 American Primitive by Mary Oliver > (Atlantic-Little, Brown) > > 1985 Yin by Carolyn Kizer (BOA Editions) 1986 > > The Flying Change by Henry Taylor (Louisiana State > University Press) > > 1987 Thomas and Beulah by Rita Dove (Carnegie-Mellon > University Press) > > 1988 Partial Accounts: New and Selected Poems by > William Meredith (Alfred A. > Knopf) > > 1989 New and Collected Poems by Richard Wilbur > (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich) > > 1990 The World Doesn't End by Charles Simic > (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich) > > 1991 Near Changes by Mona Van Duyn (Alfred A. Knopf) > > 1992 Selected Poems by James Tate (Wesleyan > University Press) > > 1993 The Wild Iris by Louise Gluck (The Ecco Press) > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From mhb Tue Apr 9 15:26:56 2002 From: mhb (matthb) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 12:26:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Practical Gods by Carl Dennis In-Reply-To: <200204090046.g390keU66772@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: > From: "David Graham" > > Unless you come to the rescue by imagining him > No wiser than you are, no god at all, only a friend > No closer than the actual friend you made at college, > The one you haven't written in months. Sit down tonight > And write him about the life you can talk about > With a claim to authority, the life you've witnessed, > Which for all you know is the life you've chosen. Thank you, David, for posting this. The line and the voice are similar to Ranking the Wishes. While reading, I was becoming distressed that Dennis was laying the elitism on a bit thick, but at the end he's as human, as kind as I remember him. -matt From Simon Tue Apr 9 17:22:49 2002 From: Simon (Simon_Beth) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 16:22:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Practical Gods by Carl Dennis Message-ID: Stopping by some bookstores on a sunny evening Practical Gods is sold out in Madison WI. beth From DICK Tue Apr 9 18:34:07 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 02 18:34:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room Message-ID: <200204092234.g39MYSM33820@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> The April issue of Poetry has a long review by Dennis O'Driscoll, which I highly recommend. Compares Collins' spoof of the sonnet with Szymborska's acceptance speech. Also points out similarities with Simic. O'Driscoll appreciates Collins' wit and erudition. BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. Unless the poem is humorous, e.g., "Twas brillig and the slithy toves." Richard From bobgrumman Tue Apr 9 19:15:27 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:15:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room References: <200204092234.g39MYSM33820@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> Message-ID: <009201c1e01c$6fd942a0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. I thought: Emily jingle as I read the one poem I read of Hope's. Wasn't in pentameter, was it? --Bob G. From odysseus34 Tue Apr 9 21:40:17 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 18:40:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room References: <200204092234.g39MYSM33820@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> Message-ID: <3CB397FD.51BB8D9F@earthlink.net> DICK at watson.ibm.com wrote: > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite for _you_ then. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From marcus Tue Apr 9 23:07:25 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:07:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room In-Reply-To: <3CB397FD.51BB8D9F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB3742D.26522.AC4BA@localhost> > > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. > > Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite > for _you_ then. > Moira Russell > Seattle, WA You want Vermont Granite instead of 1/2" clear glass? No problem. Do we have a deal, then? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From marcus Wed Apr 10 07:28:36 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:28:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List In-Reply-To: <3CB397FD.51BB8D9F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB3E9A4.13517.34FD75@localhost> I've found 243 control keys. Just memorize them like I do. Use a handy mnemonic such as "pages 627, 628 and 3 of Finnegans Wake". Command Name / Modifiers / Key / Menu All Caps Ctrl+Shift+ A Annotation Alt+Ctrl+ M App Maximize Alt+ F10 App Restore Alt+ F5 Apply Heading1 Alt+Ctrl+ 1 Apply Heading2 Alt+Ctrl+ 2 Apply Heading3 Alt+Ctrl+ 3 Apply List Bullet Ctrl+Shift+ L Auto Format Alt+Ctrl+ K Auto Text F3 Auto Text Alt+Ctrl+ V Bold Ctrl+ B Bold Ctrl+Shift+ B Bookmark Ctrl+Shift+ F5 Insert Browse Next Ctrl+ Page Down Browse Prev Ctrl+ Page Up Browse Sel Alt+Ctrl+ Home Cancel Esc Center Para Ctrl+ E Change Case Shift+ F3 Char Left Left Char Left Extend Shift+ Left Char Right Right Char Right Extend Shift+ Right Clear Del Edit Close or Exit Alt+ F4 Close Pane Alt+Shift+ C Column Break Ctrl+Shift+ Return Column Select Ctrl+Shift+ F8 Copy Ctrl+ C Copy Ctrl+ Insert Copy Format Ctrl+Shift+ C Copy Text Shift+ F2 Create Auto Text Alt+ F3 Customize Add Menu Shortcut Alt+Ctrl+ = Customize Keyboard Shortcut Alt+Ctrl+ Num + Customize Remove Menu Shortcut Alt+Ctrl+ - Cut Ctrl+ X Cut Shift+ Del Date Field Alt+Shift+ D Delete Back Word Ctrl+ Backspace Delete Word Ctrl+ Del Dictionary Alt+Shift+ F7 Do Field Click Alt+Shift+ F9 Doc Close Ctrl+ W Doc Close Ctrl+ F4 Doc Maximize Ctrl+ F10 Doc Move Ctrl+ F7 Doc Restore Ctrl+ F5 Doc Size Ctrl+ F8 Doc Split Alt+Ctrl+ S Window Double Underline Ctrl+Shift+ D End of Column Alt+ Page Down End of Column Alt+Shift+ Page Down End of Doc Extend Ctrl+Shift+ End End of Document Ctrl+ End End of Line End End of Line Extend Shift+ End End of Row Alt+ End End of Row Alt+Shift+ End End of Window Alt+Ctrl+ Page Down End of Window Extend Alt+Ctrl+Shift+ Page Down Endnote Now Alt+Ctrl+ D Field Chars Ctrl+ F9 Field Codes Alt+ F9 Find Ctrl+ F Font Ctrl+ D Font Ctrl+Shift+ F Font Size Select Ctrl+Shift+ P Footnote Now Alt+Ctrl+ F Go Back Shift+ F5 Go Back Alt+Ctrl+ Z Go To Ctrl+ G Edit Go To F5 Edit Grow Font Ctrl+Shift+ . Grow Font One Point Ctrl+ ] Hanging Indent Ctrl+ T Header Footer Link Alt+Shift+ R Help F1 Hidden Ctrl+Shift+ H Hyperlink Ctrl+ K Indent Ctrl+ M Italic Ctrl+ I Italic Ctrl+Shift+ I Justify Para Ctrl+ J Left Para Ctrl+ L Line Down Down Line Down Extend Shift+ Down Line Up Up Line Up Extend Shift+ Up List Num Field Alt+Ctrl+ L Lock Fields Ctrl+ 3 Lock Fields Ctrl+ F11 Macro Alt+ F8 Mail Merge Check Alt+Shift+ K Mail Merge Edit Data Source Alt+Shift+ E Mail Merge to Doc Alt+Shift+ N Mail Merge to Printer Alt+Shift+ M Mark Citation Alt+Shift+ I Mark Index Entry Alt+Shift+ X Mark Table of Contents Entry Alt+Shift+ O Menu Mode F10 Merge Field Alt+Shift+ F Microsoft Script Editor Alt+Shift+ F11 Microsoft System Info Alt+Ctrl+ F1 Move Text F2 New Ctrl+ N File Next Cell Tab Next Field F11 Next Field Alt+ F1 Next Misspelling Alt+ F7 Next Object Alt+ Down Next Window Ctrl+ F6 Next Window Alt+ F6 Normal Alt+Ctrl+ N View Normal Style Ctrl+Shift+ N Normal Style Alt+Shift+ Clear (Num 5) Open Ctrl+ O Open Ctrl+ F12 Open Alt+Ctrl+ F2 Open or Close Up Para Ctrl+ 0 Other Pane F6 Other Pane Shift+ F6 Outline Alt+Ctrl+ O Outline Collapse Alt+Shift+ - Outline Collapse Alt+Shift+ Num - Outline Demote Alt+Shift+ Right Outline Expand Alt+Shift+ = Outline Expand Alt+Shift+ Num + Outline Move Down Alt+Shift+ Down Outline Move Up Alt+Shift+ Up Outline Promote Alt+Shift+ Left Outline Show First Line Alt+Shift+ L Overtype Insert Page Alt+Ctrl+ P View Page Break Ctrl+ Return Page Down Page Down Page Down Extend Shift+ Page Down Page Field Alt+Shift+ P Page Up Page Up Page Up Extend Shift+ Page Up Para Down Ctrl+ Down Para Down Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Down Para Up Ctrl+ Up Para Up Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Up Paste Insert Paste Ctrl+ V Paste Shift+ Insert Paste Format Ctrl+Shift+ V Prev Cell Shift+ Tab Prev Field Shift+ F11 Prev Field Alt+Shift+ F1 Prev Object Alt+ Up Prev Window Ctrl+Shift+ F6 Prev Window Alt+Shift+ F6 Print Ctrl+ P Print Ctrl+Shift+ F12 Print Preview Ctrl+ F2 Print Preview Alt+Ctrl+ I Proofing F7 Redo Alt+Shift+ Backspace Redo or Repeat Ctrl+ Y Edit Redo or Repeat F4 Edit Redo or Repeat Alt+ Return Edit Repeat Find Shift+ F4 Repeat Find Alt+Ctrl+ Y Replace Ctrl+ H Edit Reset Char Ctrl+ Space Reset Char Ctrl+Shift+ Z Reset Para Ctrl+ Q Revision Marks Toggle Ctrl+Shift+ E Right Para Ctrl+ R Save Ctrl+ S Save Shift+ F12 Save Alt+Shift+ F2 Save As F12 File Select All Ctrl+ A Edit Select All Ctrl+ Clear (Num 5) Edit Select All Ctrl+ Num 5 Edit Select Table Alt+ Clear (Num 5) Toolbar 32778 Show All Ctrl+Shift+ 8 Show All Headings Alt+Shift+ A Show All Headings Alt+Shift+ A Show Heading1 Alt+Shift+ 1 Show Heading2 Alt+Shift+ 2 Show Heading3 Alt+Shift+ 3 Show Heading4 Alt+Shift+ 4 Show Heading5 Alt+Shift+ 5 Show Heading6 Alt+Shift+ 6 Show Heading7 Alt+Shift+ 7 Show Heading8 Alt+Shift+ 8 Show Heading9 Alt+Shift+ 9 Shrink Font Ctrl+Shift+ , Shrink Font One Point Ctrl+ Shrink Selection Shift+ F8 Small Caps Ctrl+Shift+ K Space Para1 Ctrl+ 1 Space Para15 Ctrl+ 5 Space Para2 Ctrl+ 2 Spike Ctrl+Shift+ F3 Spike Ctrl+ F3 Start of Column Alt+ Page Up Start of Column Alt+Shift+ Page Up Start of Doc Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Home Start of Document Ctrl+ Home Start of Line Home Start of Line Extend Shift+ Home Start of Row Alt+ Home Start of Row Alt+Shift+ Home Start of Window Alt+Ctrl+ Page Up Start of Window Extend Alt+Ctrl+Shift+ Page Up Style Ctrl+Shift+ S Subscript Ctrl+ = Superscript Ctrl+Shift+ = Symbol Font Ctrl+Shift+ Q Symbol: 61613 F8 Thesaurus Shift+ F7 Synonym Time Field Alt+Shift+ T Toggle Field Display Shift+ F9 Toggle Master Subdocs Ctrl+ \ Tool Shift+ F1 Un Hang Ctrl+Shift+ T Un Indent Ctrl+Shift+ M Underline Ctrl+ U Underline Ctrl+Shift+ U Undo Ctrl+ Z Undo Alt+ Backspace Unlink Fields Ctrl+ 6 Unlink Fields Ctrl+Shift+ F9 Unlock Fields Ctrl+ 4 Unlock Fields Ctrl+Shift+ F11 Update Auto Format Alt+Ctrl+ U Update Fields F9 Update Fields Alt+Shift+ U Update Source Ctrl+Shift+ F7 VBCode Alt+ F11 Web Go Back Alt+ Left Web Go Forward Alt+ Right Word Left Ctrl+ Left Word Left Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Left Word Right Ctrl+ Right Word Right Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Right Word Underline Ctrl+Shift+ W Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Robtberner Wed Apr 10 08:29:58 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:29:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] readings Message-ID: <140.c9e2e4b.29e58a46@aol.com> a couple of readings i thought people in this neck of the woods might find interesting: Sat, 4-13-02--Marilyn Nelson, at the public library, 25 Main St., Newtown, Conn. Ms. Nelson is the headliner of a program that's scheduled to run from 1-4 PM. As near as I can tell, she'll be reading in the first half of the program. Sun, 6-l6-02--Michael Harper and Rachel Harper, at the Hudson Valley Writers" Center, 300 Riverside Drive, Sleepy Hollow, New York, in the Philipse Manor Railroad Station, 3 PM; suggested donation $5. Father and daughter reading together on Father's Day. Should be fun. Robert Berner From halvard Wed Apr 10 10:39:49 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:39:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List In-Reply-To: <3CB3E9A4.13517.34FD75@localhost> Message-ID: This is definitely a handy-dandy list, Marcus. I'll keep it at hand, though I'm sure I'll not memorize more than a handful of them. Many thanks for sending them, though. I *know* that MS Word has bells and whistles I haven't dreamt of yet. Your list has shown me three or four useful ones already. Hal "When you come to a fork in the road-- take it!" --Yogi Berra Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { I've found 243 control keys. Just memorize them like I do. Use a handy { mnemonic such as "pages 627, 628 and 3 of Finnegans Wake". { { Command Name / Modifiers / Key / Menu { { All Caps Ctrl+Shift+ A { Annotation Alt+Ctrl+ M From GrahamD Wed Apr 10 10:41:18 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:41:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Text/Australian Assoc. of Writing Programs Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC7@mail.ripon.edu> Teachers of creative writing might be interested to look at the online journal TEXT, put out by the Australian Association of Writing Programs. It looks to be a fairly scholarly collection of online articles on creative writing pedagogy and associated academic issues. http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/index.htm ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From DICK Wed Apr 10 10:39:36 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 02 10:39:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] The beat of A.D. Hope Message-ID: <200204101448.g3AEmxM35526@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> >>> BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter >>> bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, >>> after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, >>> and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. >> >> >>I thought: Emily jingle as I read the one poem I read of >>Hope's. Wasn't in pentameter, was it? >> >> Bob G. Highly possible that it wasn't. The "beat beat beat of the tom-toms" (THank you, Cole Porter) was so loud I couldn't hear myself count. >>Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite >>for _you_ then. >> >>Moira Russell Yep. But that's OK. We don't all have to like the same thing. Richard From Thom424 Wed Apr 10 11:27:58 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:27:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Text/Australian Assoc. of Writing Programs Message-ID: <23C3F401.045B3457.001A46F6@aol.com> The are a number of inexpensive (as well as some expensive) copies of A.D. Hope's various collections at . Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From sholman Wed Apr 10 11:30:32 2002 From: sholman (Shannon Holman) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:30:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 4/10/02 10:39 AM, Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net wrote: > This is definitely a handy-dandy list, Marcus. And here I thought it was a found poem. -- Shannon Holman work: 212.545.6089 home: 718.638.1239 sholman at mac.com -- http://www.onemississippi.com From mhb Wed Apr 10 12:03:37 2002 From: mhb (matthb) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:03:37 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall on Fresh Air In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Right now, at least in Sacramento. From GrahamD Wed Apr 10 12:36:41 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:36:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Franz Wright Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC9@mail.ripon.edu> Here's a poem from one of the other Pulitzer nominated collections for this year: The Poem Said The poem said never love anything Not even you? I asked and it answered especially me If you must, love not living with hope or not living taste this and remember not yet being-- Especially me I am just you If you must, like and coldly admire my cold stars shit for brains love what I stand for not me the leopard the beautiful death who puts on his spotted robe when he goes to his chosen, the what was the not now the what will be Like suddenly using a dead friend's expression Make yourself useful while there is time while there is still light and time from THE BEFORELIFE Copyright(c)2001 by Franz Wright ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From gmcvay Wed Apr 10 19:33:44 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:33:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List References: <3CB3E9A4.13517.34FD75@localhost> Message-ID: <3CB4CBD3.57742914@patriot.net> Dear Marcus, If you stumble across a like list for the Mac (where "alt" and "control" mostly, though not reliably, end up as "option" and "command" respectively), would you let me know? Contrarian computer user to the last--Gwyn From grahamd Wed Apr 10 22:30:38 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:30:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis Message-ID: <200204110229.g3B2Td879687@mx4.mx.voyager.net> Carl Dennis was interviewed tonight on the Jim Lehrer News Hour on PBS. Video and audio feeds are available on the web: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From CobbCoStudioArts Thu Apr 11 08:45:31 2002 From: CobbCoStudioArts (Robert R.Cobb) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room Message-ID: <20020411124531.94DEF3ED3@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From sholman Thu Apr 11 10:33:24 2002 From: sholman (Shannon Holman) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:33:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List In-Reply-To: <3CB4CBD3.57742914@patriot.net> Message-ID: on 4/10/02 7:33 PM, Gwyn McVay at gmcvay at patriot.net wrote: > Dear Marcus, > > If you stumble across a like list for the Mac (where "alt" and "control" > mostly, though not reliably, end up as "option" and "command" > respectively), would you let me know? > polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/lss/infolab/PDF/mac_shortcuts.pdf has shortcuts for special characters (and you're all special character). http://comtel.fortlewis.edu/labs/Tutorials/Macintosh/macshortcutkeys.pdf has basic shortcut keys http://www.colby.edu/info.tech/howtos/tips.html system and application level keys. Let me know if you want more. Shannon -- Shannon Holman work: 212.545.6089 home: 718.638.1239 sholman at mac.com -- http://www.onemississippi.com From MillB Thu Apr 11 15:33:23 2002 From: MillB (MillB at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:33:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis Message-ID: <195.52c0ac7.29e73f03@aol.com> Greetings: Thanks for the info about the interview. Carl Dennis is a wonderful poet and a nice and generous human being as well. Mill From odysseus34 Fri Apr 12 00:30:40 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:30:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room References: <3CB3742D.26522.AC4BA@localhost> Message-ID: <3CB662EE.E5B6C019@earthlink.net> Marcus Bales wrote: > > > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > > > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > > > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > > > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. > > > > Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite > > for _you_ then. > > Moira Russell > > Seattle, WA > > You want Vermont Granite instead of 1/2" clear glass? No > problem. Do we have a deal, then? Enn. Oh. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From marcus Fri Apr 12 08:43:14 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:43:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room In-Reply-To: <3CB662EE.E5B6C019@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB69E22.17304.1127E1@localhost> > > > > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > > > > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > > > > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > > > > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. > > > > > > Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite > > > for _you_ then. > > > Moira Russell > > > Seattle, WA > > > > You want Vermont Granite instead of 1/2" clear glass? No > > problem. Do we have a deal, then? > Moira Russell > Enn. > Oh. Oh Ell. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From JforJames Fri Apr 12 10:14:39 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:14:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Brad Leithauser's new novel-in-verse. Message-ID: <49.1bb2e739.29e845cf@aol.com> April 18: Brad Leithauser - The following are the opening stanzas from DARLINGTON'S FALL, Brad Leithauser's new novel-in-verse. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The hand hungers: the jewel of the world, And his for the taking. In all his long Life of looking, never once beheld A thing so fine--never wanted anything Quite so much as this astonishing Being, this stout green glittering Prize . . . But the getting his hands on it, The business of the capturing, That will be dicey (difficult, delicate), With so many ways everything can go wrong . . . Hands are hungry and with hungry hands You must work extra hard to keep Your wits about you, to be slow and quick At once, as the situation demands. (When you're so full of wanting, it's no small trick.) Boil down all the trees in the forest until They form a single cup of resin, still You would never concoct a green So bright, so dark, so dizzyingly deep As this, the purest color he has ever seen. The jewel of the world: conceived In mud and muck, then dropped on a fallen log Down at the edge of the pond. He can't stop Even to remove his shoes--no time-- Wades right in, feet sucked at by the slime . . . The trouble here: It's that the frog (The hugest frog in all the world) can get away So many different ways, can simply drop-- Flop!--and be gone, never to be retrieved. Oh, so many ways for things to go astray! He slides toward it, heart about to burst In his mouth, heart full in his hands. It must be A dream . . . that?s what he'd thought at first, Spotting it: so big, so green, and right there. That was the amazing thing: the thing?s reality. The wish formed instantly, deep as any prayer: Let me get my hands on him! Here's the prize He's waited all his life for: the overfull Eyes and barrel chest, the kingly receding skull, The bulging banked power in the thighs . . . A sliding step--a sliding step--and nearly Nearly there. Inside his chest, desire suspends A weight, a weight connected to a spring, His heart like a mousetrap, waiting To snap shut with an absolutely desolating Empty clap . . . How will he bear it if the thing Escapes?--oh, when he wants it so dearly, Never wanted anything so much! And almost there, now he can all but touch-- A hungry beggar?s hand extends . . . He lunges, just as the frog leaps, And right there, in midair, in midair's where The two creatures (hands of the one, brute Miraculous torso of the other) lock Together, a solid thumping shock That races up his arm like a flare, Crackles and cleanses and expands As it climbs, torching his brain. (And the fire keeps Burning: decades hence, when his fleet-foot Boyhood's dim, he'll recall, with tingling hands, The summer morning when his little hands Clamped on the creature and held it whole, Feeling in that moment so rich a press Of feeling, perhaps no other touch (Or maybe one?--one only?--the one to come Four decades on?) ever will thrill him quite so much. Oh, every cell in his body understands What he himself cannot begin to guess: This instant lasts forever, there are some Encounters that configure your soul.) The thing squirms-- squirms half loose, slips, But his fingers grapple: one leg, got it, one Big back leg grasped tight, as his other hand, scooping Upward, catches it from below, grips It round the chest: the booming noble pulse Yes in his palm: he has it, it?s now his great good luck To have it: the jewel of the world--and where else But in the warm chalice of his hands? A whooping Howl rips free of his throat, winging like a duck Over the trees, straight at the sun. from DARLINGTON'S FALL Copyright (c) 2002 by Brad Leithauser ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Brad Leithauser writes: I think the happiest I've ever been, as a writer, was while composing my new book, a novel in verse, DARLINGTON'S FALL. In the fourth chapter, the book's hero, an imaginary Midwestern naturalist named Russel Darlington, travels to the remote island of Ponape in Micronesia in the year 1912. He's searching for butterflies. In 1996, I went to Ponape too, searching for Darlington--searching, that is, for some idea of what it would be like to have arrived on this blazing, jungly, murmurous island some eighty years before. Ponape was startlingly gorgeous--and yet I felt compelled to spend long hours cooped up inside, removed from all nature, sifting through the archives the Jesuit missionaries had assembled. Blurry photographs, customs forms, bills of lading, baptismal records--and then I found it: an anonymous report, dated 1910, by a visitor to the island, detailing what he saw as he wandered the island on his first few days... Clearly the makings of a novel--but a novel in verse? Why did I tell my tale so indirectly, in stanzas and rhyme? As the author of five previous novels and four books of poetry, I might answer that I've always been interested in combining the two genres. But I think it would be more accurate to say that writing a novel in verse didn't feel indirect at all: I was chasing after butterflies, after all the beauties of nature, and the net of a stanza seemed the most efficient way of going after them. More Brad Leithauser: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/leithauser/poem.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbarone Fri Apr 12 10:29:33 2002 From: dbarone (dbarone) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:29:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <0D9D00A18A08ED47875BD976E134249008D350@sjcmail.sjc.edu> Does anyone know of an antholgy of long poems or an anthology of poem sequences? It seems to me that those were two major modes of twentieth century writing. I recall that M. L. Rosenthal, the Yeats scholar, wrote a book in which he argued that the sequence was the central form of poetic modernism. At any rate, I couldn't recall any anthologies devoted to either and that seems like a gap to me in the mountains of anthologies. Dennis Barone From grahamd Fri Apr 12 10:39:30 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:39:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <200204121439.g3CEd1Z93826@mx16.mx.voyager.net> Good question. There's a lovely but out-of-print 1966 Penguin anthology of British long poems: *Longer Contemporary Poems*, ed. David Wright. It includes Kavanagh's "Great Hunger," Auden's "Letter to Lord Byron," W. S. Graham's "The Nightfishing," Hugh MacDiarmid's "On a Raised Beach," and others. The David Young/Stuart Friebert contemporary American anthology, as I recall, includes more than the usual number of longer poems and sequences--though "long" in this context is hardly long in any Wordsworthian sense. One of the few anthologies to include Denise Levertov's "Olga Poems," for instance. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: dbarone >To: "'new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu'" >Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies >Date: Fri, Apr 12, 2002, 9:29 AM > > > >Does anyone know of an antholgy of long poems or an anthology of poem >sequences? It seems to me that those were two major modes of twentieth >century writing. I recall that M. L. Rosenthal, the Yeats scholar, wrote a >book in which he argued that the sequence was the central form of poetic >modernism. At any rate, I couldn't recall any anthologies devoted to either >and that seems like a gap to me in the mountains of anthologies. > >Dennis Barone From Thom424 Fri Apr 12 11:08:10 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:08:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <33DDFE97.1B3C7A35.001A46F6@aol.com> from the promo material: Cary Nelson's _Anthology of Modern American Poetry_ is the first anthology to give full treatment to American long poems and poem sequences. T.S. Eliot's The Waste Land, Gertrude Stein's "Patriarchal Poetry," William Carlos Williams's The Descent of Winter, Edna St. Vincent Millay's "Sonnets from an Ungrafted Tree," Muriel Rukeyser's "The Book of the Dead," Melvin Tolson's Libretto for the Republic of Liberia, Theodore Roethke's "North American Sequence," Gwendolyn Brooks's "Gay Chaps at the Bar," Kenneth Rexroth's "The Love Poems of Marichiko," both Allen Ginsberg's "Howl" and his "Wichita Vortex Sutra," and both Adrienne Rich's "Shooting Script" and her "Twenty-One Love Poems" are all included in their entirety. Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From Thom424 Fri Apr 12 11:20:10 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:20:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <310207DF.424B1DDD.001A46F6@aol.com> Sorry not to include this in my previous post. The work in this anthology is limited to Canadian authors. I've been directing a tutorial on the "long poem" with one of our MFA students, and I have found this title useful. _The New Long Poem Anthology_ Second Edition. Edited by Sharon Thesen Talon Press. ISBN 0-88922-438-0; $29.95 Canada / $24.95 U.S.A. ?2000; 384 pp. "The long poem, nowadays, is the talk of various discourses with each other. The singing talker." "A poem is a small painting, a long poem is a mural." The second edition of The New Long Poem Anthology is an irreplaceable roadmap of a vital and powerful poetic form, a record of the most seductive and sustained 'singing talk' in postmodern Canadian writing. Edited by Sharon Thesen, this collection of long poems, longer works, sequential poems, extended poems, serial, lengthy or longish poems extend the geography of postmodern Canadian poetry as it was laid out in 1979, exemplifying Michael Ondaatje's early observation that "the most interesting work being done by poets today can be found within the structure of the long poem." With a statement of poetics and short bibliography from each author, the second edition of The New Long Poem Anthology includes work by: Anne Carson Christopher Dewdney Lisa Robertson Jeff Derkson Don McKay Erin Moure Patrick Friesen Steve McCaffery George Bowering Dionne Brand Louis Dudek Diana Hartog Roy Kiyooka Robert Kroetsch Daphne Marlatt David McFadden Barry McKinnon bpNichol Michael Ondaatje Lola Lemire Tostevin Fred Wah Phyllis Webb Robin Blaser Yolande Villemaire Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From Jtcanaday Fri Apr 12 12:13:08 2002 From: Jtcanaday (Jtcanaday at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:13:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet of the Month Message-ID: The editors of PoetryNet are pleased to announce that April's Poet of the Month is Jim Murphy. Come visit us, read some of Jim's poetry, and browse through our extensive Poet of the Month Archive. http://members.aol.com/poetrynet/index.html Also, in the shameless self-promotion category, my own first book of poems, The Invisible World (winner of last year's Walt Whitman Award from the Academy of American Poets), is just out from LSU Press. It is set in Jordan, based on a year I spent there just after the Gulf War. I'd love to hear reactions from anyone on the list. With best wishes, and thanks for the consistently stimulating conversations, John Canaday From Serbpoet Fri Apr 12 12:20:35 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:20:35 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis Message-ID: <1ad.9ba9b5.29e86353@aol.com> The title Dennis ' most clearly, canny and warmly merry figure eight best seller is a little oxymoron and a Gauntlet, which is thrown easily down with the same masses. Self mockery and panache are here. Which I would like to be known is why is not the Gods, which are accomodating, more useful? American poetry which is not enough hygenic (Ginsberg, plus others) needs more purity of feeling such as thus. Anna From JforJames Fri Apr 12 13:29:22 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:29:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] DAVOREN HANNA POETRY COMPETITION Message-ID: <137.c7070ed.29e87372@aol.com> US POET LAUREATE BILLY COLLINS AND CAROL ANN DUFFY > TO CO-JUDGE THE DAVOREN HANNA POETRY COMPETITION 2002 > > > The Davoren Hanna Poetry Competition is now accepting submissions for this > years contest. Sponsored by Eason Bookshops (Ireland's largest chain of > book stores) and The Muse Cafes, the competition will be judged this year > by acclaimed Scottish poet Carol Ann Duffy, widely regarded as one of > Britain's leading contemporary poets, and US Poet Laureate Billy Collins. > > Named after the gifted young Dublin poet who died in 1994, the competition > offers a first prize of 6,500 euros, and second and third prizes of 2,500 > euros and 1,250 euros respectively, making it one of the largest such > awards in Ireland and the UK. > > The competition is open to both published and unpublished poets over the > age of 18. and entrants may submit as many poems as they wish. The closing > date is 31st May 2002, with the winners being announced in early August. > First prize in 2001 went to Vona Groake(Ire), with Jeri McCormak (US) > taking second and Ayala Kingsley (UK) winning third place. > > Entry forms, rules and guide lines are available for printing on our > sponsor's site at www.eason.ie or by sending a stamped addressed envelope > to Poetry Competition, The Muse Cafe, Eason Bookshop, O'Connell Street, > Dublin 1, Ireland. > > Mr John Cudlipp, Director of Eason Bookshops, says that Eason are > delighted to sponsor The Davoren Hanna Poetry Competition in its second > year of existence. "As a seller of books we see it very much as part of > our remit to support and encourage new writers in a climate where rewards > for poets are few and far between." > From CobbCoStudioArts Sat Apr 13 01:24:53 2002 From: CobbCoStudioArts (Robert R.Cobb) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lyric Voice Message-ID: <20020413052453.92C0B2756@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From FanwoodJEL Sat Apr 13 11:58:03 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:58:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Tupelo Press Bash & Readings Message-ID: <12c.fc9e33e.29e9af8b@aol.com> All, Tonight, 7:30 pm at the Northshire Bookstore in Manchester, VT, a bash for Tupelo Press including readings by Francine Sterle, Margaret Szumowski, Jennifer Michael Hecht, Matthew Zapruder, et moi. If you're in the area, please do come, and also to the dinner following. Jeffrey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier Sat Apr 13 12:21:04 2002 From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:21:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Text/Australian Assoc. of Writing Programs References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC7@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CB85AF0.116BD924@localnet.com> Hey, David Graham, thanks for this site - some good stuff there. Helen "Graham, David" wrote: > Teachers of creative writing might be interested to look at the online > journal TEXT, put out by the Australian Association of Writing Programs. It > looks to be a fairly scholarly collection of online articles on creative > writing pedagogy and associated academic issues. > > http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/index.htm > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Cadaly Sat Apr 13 13:54:48 2002 From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:54:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <87.1a085778.29e9cae8@aol.com> Lynn Keller's FORMS OF EXPANSION is not an anthology, but it begins to introduce a wide variety of women's long poems, of which there are many, and takes on Rosenthal a bit. She wrote the Columbia Encyclopedia article on the long poem. But any anthology of long poems would be of excerpts, so... I'm having a hard time imagining something useful. MAPS online has excerpts from Donna Allego's thesis, on women writing long poems in the early modernist period. Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net Diane Di Prima Rochelle Owen Sharon Doubiago Rachel Blau DuPlessis Susan Howe Bernadette Mayer Minnie Bruce Pratt Gail Wronsky Judy Grahn Rita Dove Marilyn Hacker Gwendolyn Brooks Beverly Dahlen Julia Budenz Jill Breckenridge Joan Retallack Carla Harryman Lyn Heijinian Clark Coolidge Ron Silliman Barrett Watten Bruce Andrews John Ashbery A.R. Ammons James Merrill Ronald Johnson Ted Enslin Ed Dorn Nathaniel Tarn Robert Duncan Laura Riding HD Langston Hughes Lola Ridge Mary Carolyn Davies p'haps Mary Aldis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Apr 13 14:10:17 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:10:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies Message-ID: <200204131809.g3DI9iV95160@mx13.mx.voyager.net> It's a very good point that any anthology of long poems less than a jillion pages long will either be highly limited in number of poems, or else will comprise a gathering of excerpts. And teaching excerpts would be an odd way to study the long poem, seems to me. If I were teaching the long(er) poem, I'd thus be tempted to focus on a few individual volumes by a limited # of poets. So: anyone up for sharing further names of favorite contemporary long poems? Tops on my list would probably be Hayden Carruth's *The Sleeping Beauty* and Fred Chappell's *Midquest*--both available as single volumes, last time I checked. And a somewhat neglected classic, I think, is Gwendolyn Brooks' *In the Mecca*. There are so many others. I believe Carruth has a volume called something like "Collected Longer Poems," by the way. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Cadaly at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Date: Sat, Apr 13, 2002, 12:54 PM Lynn Keller's FORMS OF EXPANSION is not an anthology, but it begins to introduce a wide variety of women's long poems, of which there are many, and takes on Rosenthal a bit. She wrote the Columbia Encyclopedia article on the long poem. But any anthology of long poems would be of excerpts, so... I'm having a hard time imagining something useful. MAPS online has excerpts from Donna Allego's thesis, on women writing long poems in the early modernist period. Rgds, Catherine Daly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thom424 Sat Apr 13 14:14:06 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:14:06 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies Message-ID: <8e.2640da7e.29e9cf6e@aol.com> LETTER TO AN IMAGINARY FRIEND by Tom McGrath and PATTERSON by WC Williams are two my MFA student and I are working on in our tutorial on the long poem. From JforJames Sat Apr 13 14:17:45 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:17:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Features on AuthorsOnTheWeb.com Message-ID: <13c.cac1e66.29e9d049@aol.com> Subj: Poetry Features on AuthorsOnTheWeb.com Date: 4/12/2002 4:37:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: wiley at bookreporter.com Hello, To celebrate National Poetry Month AuthorsOnTheWeb.com is running two poet roundtables. Mary Jo Bang, Billy Collins, Cornelius Eady, Jeffrey Greene, Richard Matthews, Honor Moore, Marge Piercy, and Marc Woodworth voice their opinions on how to persuade reluctant readers to enjoy poetry and how schools might help students learn to love it. The poets also explain why poetry is their chosen method of expression and reveal which poem defines them as individuals. Betsy Franco, Robin Hirsch, Mary Ann Hoberman, Paul B. Janeczko, Alan Katz, X. J. Kennedy, Marilyn Singer, and Sonya Sones, poets for younger readers, present their views on these issues in a second roundtable discussion. The features can be found at: http://www.authorsontheweb.com/features/0204-poet/main-poet.asp I wanted to send the link in case you would like to read the roundtables and possibly link these features to your website. Please let me know if you have any questions. Happy reading, Wiley Saichek Promotion Manager for AuthorsOnTheWeb.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Apr 13 14:38:48 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:38:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies Message-ID: <200204131835.g3DIZK128721@mx5.mx.voyager.net> I'm particularly fond, myself, of less-than-booklength but more-than-easily-anthologized poems or suites. Some top-of-my-head favorites: Seamus Heaney. Station Island. Denise Levertov. The Olga Poems. Kenneth Koch. The Art of Poetry. Robert Hass. Songs to Survive the Summer Hayden Carruth. Paragraphs. Alicia Ostriker. The Mastectomy Poems. Sydney Lea. The Feud. Adrienne Rich. An Atlas of the Difficult World. Dan Bellm. Aspens. Philip Levine. A Walk With Tom Jefferson. Anne Winters. The Ruins. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: Thom424 at aol.com >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies >Date: Sat, Apr 13, 2002, 1:14 PM > >LETTER TO AN IMAGINARY FRIEND by Tom McGrath and PATTERSON by WC Williams are >two my MFA student and I are working on in our tutorial on the long poem. From cstroffo Sat Apr 13 15:09:32 2002 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:09:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies References: <87.1a085778.29e9cae8@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB8826B.D3AA2D8F@earthlink.net> weird that Alice Notley is excluded.... Cadaly at aol.com wrote: > Lynn Keller's FORMS OF EXPANSION is not an anthology, but it begins to > introduce a wide variety of women's long poems, of which there are > many, and takes on Rosenthal a bit. She wrote the Columbia > Encyclopedia article on the long poem. But any anthology of long > poems would be of excerpts, so... I'm having a hard time imagining > something useful. > > MAPS online has excerpts from Donna Allego's thesis, on women writing > long poems in the early modernist period. > > Rgds, > Catherine Daly > cadaly at pacbell.net > > Diane Di Prima > Rochelle Owen > Sharon Doubiago > Rachel Blau DuPlessis > Susan Howe > Bernadette Mayer > Minnie Bruce Pratt > Gail Wronsky > Judy Grahn > Rita Dove > Marilyn Hacker > Gwendolyn Brooks > Beverly Dahlen > Julia Budenz > Jill Breckenridge > Joan Retallack > Carla Harryman > Lyn Heijinian > > Clark Coolidge > Ron Silliman > Barrett Watten > Bruce Andrews > > John Ashbery > A.R. Ammons > James Merrill > > Ronald Johnson > Ted Enslin > Ed Dorn > Nathaniel Tarn > > Robert Duncan > Laura Riding > HD > Langston Hughes > Lola Ridge > Mary Carolyn Davies > p'haps Mary Aldis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Apr 13 18:00:43 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:00:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Marie Ponsot Message-ID: <6.2748ada7.29ea048b@aol.com> A poem from 1948 and a poem from 1998 both from SPRINGING: New and Selected Poems by Marie Ponsot +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ St.-Germain-des-Pres: Summer 1948 Crooked like all our ideas of ancient ascension The abbey tower topples a little toward us in the haze, Looking lightning-struck atop the quiet afternoon Or perhaps visited by something toppling in other days. Not now. Now grey, heavy, like a bank, the church A house, is decorative and calm across the square, Convenient for native weddings, funerals. From this cafe It's handsome; it fits; smiling tourists recognize it there. Now the ex-sergeant I've been drinking with has something? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to say: ? ? ("Don't go in there, kid, I been, it's ? ? dangerous, no light what I call light but ? ? inside it's gold all over and the gold is going. ? ? I mean gold air goes blowing, there's an old ? ? sky blue altar up there too, don't let that gold ? ? air blow on you.) Pourriture Noble (1998) a moral tale, for Sauternes, the fungus cenaria, and the wild old Never prophesy. You can't. So don't try. Lust, pride, and lethargy may cause us misery or bliss. The meanest mistake has a point to make. Hear this-- what his vintner d'Eyquem said once the lord of d'Eyquem was dead: ??????"The wine that year promised bad or none. ????????He'd let it go too late. ????????Rot had crawled through all the vines, ????????greasy scum on every cluster ????????dangling at the crotches of the leaves. ????????Should have been long picked ????????but he'd said, 'No. Wait for me,' ????????off to wait on a new woman, ????????grapes on the verge of ripe ????????when he left. Coupling kept him ????????till rot wrapped the grapes like lace ????????& by the time she'd kicked him out ????????the sun had got them, they hung ????????shriveled in the blast. ????????Well, he rode home cocky ????????& bullied the grapes into the vats ????????rot & all, spoiled grapes, too old, ????????too soon squeezed dry. ??????????????????????????????????????The wine makes. ????????The wine makes thick, gold-colored, ????????& pours like honey. ????????We try it. Fantastic! ????????not like honey, punchy, ????????you've never drunk anything like it-- ????????refreshing, in a rush ????????over a heat that slows your throat-- ????????wanting to keep that flavor ????????stuck to the edge of your tongue ????????where your taste is, keep it ????????like the best bouquet you can remember ????????of sundown summer & someone coming ????????to you smiling. The taste has odor ????????like a new country, so fine ????????at first you can't take it in ????????it's so strange. It's beautiful ????????& believe me you love to go slow." moral: Age is not all dry rot. It's never too late. Sweet is your real estate. from SPRINGING Copyright (c) 2002 by Marie Ponsot +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More Marie Ponsot: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/ponsot/poem.html Print out an illustrated broadside of Marie Ponsot's poem "Half Full" http://www.aaknopf.com/poetry/halffull.pdf Marie Ponsot will be reading from her work with Knopf poets Anne Carson, Sapphire, and Cynthia Zarin in the coming weeks: Thursday, April 11, 6:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Museum of NY City, Gotham Readers Series, NY with Sapphire. Co-sponsored by PSA and AAP. Tuesday, April 23, 7:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Fordham University,? 60th street at Lincoln Center, 12th floor Wednesday, April 24, 7:00 p.m. WASHINGTON, DC ? Chapters, 1512 K Street, NW ? reading and booksigning with Cynthia Zarin. Tuesday, April 30, 7:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Queens College reading with Anne Carson. Wednesday, May 1 SEATTLE -- CounterBalance Poetry Series Monday, May 13, 7:00 p.m.? NEW YORK -- Corner Bookstore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Cadaly Sat Apr 13 18:14:03 2002 From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:14:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <18c.6680685.29ea07ab@aol.com> I don't think Notley'd written _Descent of Alette_ yet, but neither she nor Mayer are "covered." Many of the other women I'm finding who specialize in writing long poems and verse drama and free verse / travelogue are REALLY forgotten -- revenge of the anthologists I guess. Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sat Apr 13 23:16:14 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:16:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies In-Reply-To: <200204131809.g3DI9iV95160@mx13.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: long poems/anthologiesSeems to me that Seldan Rodman did an anthology of long poems in the old Mentor Books days. Probably long gone, unless you're lucky enough to stumble upon it. I don't even seem to see it around here anymore. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu]On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 2:10 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies It's a very good point that any anthology of long poems less than a jillion pages long will either be highly limited in number of poems, or else will comprise a gathering of excerpts. And teaching excerpts would be an odd way to study the long poem, seems to me. If I were teaching the long(er) poem, I'd thus be tempted to focus on a few individual volumes by a limited # of poets. So: anyone up for sharing further names of favorite contemporary long poems? Tops on my list would probably be Hayden Carruth's *The Sleeping Beauty* and Fred Chappell's *Midquest*--both available as single volumes, last time I checked. And a somewhat neglected classic, I think, is Gwendolyn Brooks' *In the Mecca*. There are so many others. I believe Carruth has a volume called something like "Collected Longer Poems," by the way. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Cadaly at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Date: Sat, Apr 13, 2002, 12:54 PM Lynn Keller's FORMS OF EXPANSION is not an anthology, but it begins to introduce a wide variety of women's long poems, of which there are many, and takes on Rosenthal a bit. She wrote the Columbia Encyclopedia article on the long poem. But any anthology of long poems would be of excerpts, so... I'm having a hard time imagining something useful. MAPS online has excerpts from Donna Allego's thesis, on women writing long poems in the early modernist period. Rgds, Catherine Daly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jholmes Sun Apr 14 14:25:19 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:25:19 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: question regarding anthologies Message-ID: >> Many of the other women I'm finding who specialize in writing long poems and verse drama and free verse / travelogue are REALLY forgotten -- revenge of the anthologists I guess. << True enough. I thought C.D. Wright's DEEPSTEP COME SHINING, for example, was a terrific book--but when it was excerpted in Aizenberg & Belieu's Columbia anthology, the effect was dampening. Many anthologists seem to fix on a poet's earliest work (how often does "Mock Orange" stand for Louise Gluck?), perhaps because it was less ambitious in length and scope and thus more convenient to include. (Doesn't ARARAT or WILD IRIS better represent what she's really masterful with?) Maybe someone will start a book series of great long poems, and reprint the best of these--something like the Library of America, but devoted to poetry. I can't see how, otherwise, the genre (rather than the individual authors) could be highlighted. Janet From Cadaly Sun Apr 14 15:51:53 2002 From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:51:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <29.25962b0a.29eb37d9@aol.com> There are some chapbook series like Guy Bennett's and BeautifulSwimmer (Pattie McCarthy, herself author of a sequence, bk of (h)rs) and a+bend that publish or published chapbook length projects or chapbook length excerpts, and you can subscribe to them like you would to a journal. There are some quarterlies that publish an annual long poem / chapbook issue. With poetry books being more and more thematically and stylistically unified, so are chapbooks -- the distinction between a 12 page long poem in sections, say, and this type of chapbook blurs. Ex., Cole Swenson's published three book length projects recently (one on Apogee, which has published a few book length poetry projects, incl. Pattie McCarthy's), all of which were partially published in chapbook form earlier (BeautifulSwimmer). Electronic or serial publication is really the only route open for publishing most long poems, and there are quite a lot of them online, notably at Boston Review, Duration Press, webdelsol (the first section of Martine Bellen's new book), theeastvillage (Susan Schultz, etc.), Alterran Poetry Assemblage (Patti McCarthy), Veer, Mudlark, 2River View, various Peter Ganick places... The logical people to do anthologies of long poems and perhaps of anthologies of work that is not online are the subscription databases, Chadwyck-Healey, Thomson (Gale Group, etc.), Pro-Quest, and they should hire me. The major poetry sites (Academy of American Poets, epc, etc.) are already anthologies, and they should be reviewed as such. Some site editors consider themselves to be compiling anthologies. In fact, I think I just came up with my afternoon "the Kings are playing" projects. Be well, Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DICK Sun Apr 14 15:58:53 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 02 15:58:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/sequences Message-ID: <200204142008.g3EK8tM29906@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> The Rime of the Ancient Mariner Vachel Lindsay's what's-its-name on the Civil War, we saw in high school once upon a time David Mason, The Country I Remember in the collection of the same name Marilyn Nelson has a terrific chain of sonnets in, I think, The Fields of Praise Richard From thebobcooperfor Mon Apr 15 06:45:09 2002 From: thebobcooperfor (bob cooper) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:45:09 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies Message-ID: There's a UK based website called The Long Poem Group (which can be found at www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lpgn/lpgn1.html (or, if that doesn't work, just type Long Poem Group into Google...) which discusses the way of Long Poems today, and includes lists of what's around. If yr interested it's probably worth a browse... Bob >From: "David Graham" >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" >Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:38:48 -0500 > >I'm particularly fond, myself, of less-than-booklength but >more-than-easily-anthologized poems or suites. Some top-of-my-head >favorites: > >Seamus Heaney. Station Island. >Denise Levertov. The Olga Poems. >Kenneth Koch. The Art of Poetry. >Robert Hass. Songs to Survive the Summer >Hayden Carruth. Paragraphs. >Alicia Ostriker. The Mastectomy Poems. >Sydney Lea. The Feud. >Adrienne Rich. An Atlas of the Difficult World. >Dan Bellm. Aspens. >Philip Levine. A Walk With Tom Jefferson. >Anne Winters. The Ruins. > >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at mail.ripon.edu >Home Page: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >Poetry Library: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >======================================== >---------- > >From: Thom424 at aol.com > >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies > >Date: Sat, Apr 13, 2002, 1:14 PM > > > > >LETTER TO AN IMAGINARY FRIEND by Tom McGrath and PATTERSON by WC Williams >are > >two my MFA student and I are working on in our tutorial on the long poem. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From JforJames Mon Apr 15 10:13:41 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:13:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Exaltation of Forms Message-ID: The University of Michigan Press is proud to announce the publication of An Exaltation of Forms: Contemporary Poets Celebrate the Diversity of Their Art edited by Annie Finch & Kathrine Varnes. At once handbook, reader, and guide to the literary tastes and wisdom of poets, An Exaltation of Forms is an indispensable resource certain to find a dedicated audience among poetry lovers. The editors invited fifty contemporary poets to select a single poetic meter, stanza, or form; describe it; recount its history; and provide favorite examples. The essays represent a remarkably diverse range of literary styles and approaches, and show how the forms of contemporary English-language poetry derive from a wealth of different traditions. The range of forms is wide-from blues to sestinas, rap to Native American chant. The range of poets included is equally impressive-from Amiri Baraka to John Frederick Nims, from Maxine Kumin to Marilyn Hacker, from Agha Shahid Ali to Pat Mora, from W. D. Snodgrass to Charles Bernstein. Achieving this level of eclecticism is a remarkable feat, especially given the strong opinions held by members of the various camps (e.g., the New Formalists, LANGUAGE poets, feminist and multicultural poets) that exist within today's poetry community. Poets who might never occupy the same room appear here between the same covers, ensuring the uniqueness of this volume and enhancing its usefulness. The net effect is a book that will surprise, inform, and delight a wide range of readers, whether as reference book, pleasure reading, or classroom text. Annie Finch is Associate Professor of English, Miami University. She is the author of The Ghost of Meter: Culture and Prosody in American Verse. Kathrine Varnes is Assistant Professor of English at the University of Missouri. Her poems and essays have appeared in many books and journals. An Exaltation of Forms edited by Annie Finch & Kathrine Varnes 6-1/8 x 9-1/4, 456 pages, 17 illustrations cloth, ISBN 0-472-09725-3, $49.50 US / ?35.50 UK & Europe* paper, ISBN 0-472-06725-7, $24.95 US / ?18.00 UK & Europe* (*Available in the UK and Europe through Plymbridge.) Publication date: April 2002 I believe this book would be of interest to the members of the New-Poetry listserv. Would you be willing to send an announcement to the listserv? If you would like additional information, please feel free to contact me. Thank you for your consideration. Regards, Jessica Sysak From paul.lake Mon Apr 15 11:54:06 2002 From: paul.lake (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:54:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/sequences In-Reply-To: <200204142008.g3EK8tM29906@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> Message-ID: on 4/14/02 2:58 PM, DICK at watson.ibm.com at DICK at watson.ibm.com wrote: > The Rime of the Ancient Mariner > Vachel Lindsay's what's-its-name on the Civil War, we saw in > high school once upon a time > David Mason, The Country I Remember in the collection of the same name > Marilyn Nelson has a terrific chain of sonnets in, I think, The Fields > of Praise > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Speaking of Marilyn Nelson, I just saw that she has a new book out called Carver: A Life In Poems. Sounds like a long poem. Has anyone on the list read it yet or want to share a reaction? Paul Lake From Jholmes Mon Apr 15 12:24:46 2002 From: Jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:24:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nelson on Carver Message-ID: I reviewed it last year for ForeWord--loved it. It's as much an historical research project as it is narrative poem, in that she makes use of heretofore unpublished materials. Two thumbs up. Janet From Cadaly Mon Apr 15 12:52:37 2002 From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:52:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] that website that asked for a free verse poem Message-ID: <1a2.bcc84a.29ec5f55@aol.com> I was unable to provide is up http://www.pieriansprings.net/issue4a/current.html Catherine Daly cadaly at pacell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD Mon Apr 15 17:12:57 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:12:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Ron Padgett Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DD8@mail.ripon.edu> > FAIRY TALE > > > The little elf is dressed in a floppy cap > and he has a big rosy nose and flaring white eyebrows > with short legs and a jaunty step, though sometimes > he glides across an invisible pond with a bonfire glow on his cheeks: > it is northern Europe in the nineteenth century and people > are strolling around Copenhagen in the late afternoon, > mostly townspeople on their way somewhere, > perhaps to an early collation of smoked fish, rye bread, and cheese, > washed down with a dark beer: ha ha, I have eaten this excellent meal > and now I will smoke a little bit and sit back and stare down > at the golden gleam of my watch fob against the coarse dark wool of my > vest, > and I will smile with a hideous contentment, because I am an evil man, > and tonight I will do something evil in this city! > > > --Ron Padgett > > > --------------------------------- > copyright (c) 2002. From You Never Know, published by Coffee House > Press(http://www.coffeehousepress.org). > --------------------------------- > > E-verse is a free service presented by Milkweed Editions > (http://www.milkweed.org). For more information or to unsubscribe, please > e-mail us at e-verse at milkweed.org. > > Sign up a friend for e-verse at http://www.milkweed.org/3_1.html > > Enjoy your week! > > ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From shep Mon Apr 15 17:55:21 2002 From: shep (shep) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:55:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Ron Padgett In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DD8@mail.ripon.edu> References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DD8@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: > > FAIRY TALE >> >> >> The little elf is dressed in a floppy cap >> and he has a big rosy nose and flaring white eyebrows >> with short legs and a jaunty step, though sometimes >> he glides across an invisible pond with a bonfire glow on his cheeks: >> it is northern Europe in the nineteenth century and people >> are strolling around Copenhagen in the late afternoon, >> mostly townspeople on their way somewhere, >> perhaps to an early collation of smoked fish, rye bread, and cheese, >> washed down with a dark beer: ha ha, I have eaten this excellent meal >> and now I will smoke a little bit and sit back and stare down >> at the golden gleam of my watch fob against the coarse dark wool of my >> vest, >> and I will smile with a hideous contentment, because I am an evil man, >> and tonight I will do something evil in this city! >> >> >> --Ron Padgett > > > In the spirit of re-writing someone else's poem I offer this: Leave out everything after contentment It's still a trick ending but it leaves something to the imagination. -- From marcus Mon Apr 15 21:54:27 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:54:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Ron Padgett In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DD8@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CBB4C13.11793.F51CE@localhost> > > Ron Padgett > > The little elf is dressed in a floppy cap > > and he has a big rosy nose and flaring white eyebrows > > with short legs and a jaunty step, though sometimes > > he glides across an invisible pond with a bonfire glow on his cheeks: > > it is northern Europe in the nineteenth century and people > > are strolling around Copenhagen in the late afternoon, > > mostly townspeople on their way somewhere, > > perhaps to an early collation of smoked fish, rye bread, and cheese, > > washed down with a dark beer: ha ha, I have eaten this excellent meal > > and now I will smoke a little bit and sit back and stare down > > at the golden gleam of my watch fob against the coarse dark wool of my > > vest, > > and I will smile with a hideous contentment, because I am an evil man, > > and tonight I will do something evil in this city!<< How To Treat Elves Morris Bishop I met an elf man in the woods,  The wee-est little elf!  Sitting under a mushroom tall--  'Twas taller than himself!   "How do you do, little elf," I said,  "And what do you do all day?"  "I dance 'n fwolic about," said he,  "'N scuttle about and play;"   "I s'prise the butterflies,  'n when A katydid I see,  'Katy didn't' I say, and he  Says 'Katy did!' to me!   "I hide behind my mushroom stalk  When Mister Mole comes froo,  'N only jus' to fwighten him  I jump out'n say 'Boo!'  "'N then I swing on a cobweb swing  Up in the air so high,  'N the cwickets chirp to hear me sing  'Upsy-daisy-die!'  "'N then I play with the baby chicks,  I call them, chick chick chick!  'N what do you think of that?" said he.  I said, "It makes me sick.  "It gives me sharp and shooting pains  To listen to such drool."  I lifted up my foot, and squashed  The God damn little fool.   Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From acgold01 Mon Apr 15 22:42:22 2002 From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:42:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others Message-ID: To bring a little levity to Tax Day, I thought I'd circulate, with her permission, this imitation by one of my students at the U of Louisville, Julia Noran. PARODY Frank O'Hara has been knocked off! I was staring at my wall and suddenly I started doodling and drawing and you said I was writing but writing weaves words together wonderfully so I was really doodling and drawing and I was in such a hurry to get through but my assignment was acting exactly like my lines and suddenly I get an idea FRANK O'HARA HAS BEEN KNOCKED OFF! There are no doodles in composition books There are no drawings in poetry I have written lots of poems and many were perfectly disgraceful but I was never actually knocked off oh Frank O'Hara I love you forgive me Alan Golding From tadrichards Tue Apr 16 07:50:17 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:50:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others References: Message-ID: <006001c1e53c$e126cf20$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Good job, Julia. Funny stuff. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan C Golding" To: Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:42 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others > To bring a little levity to Tax Day, I thought I'd circulate, with her > permission, this imitation by one of my students at the U of Louisville, > Julia Noran. > > PARODY > > Frank O'Hara has been knocked off! > I was staring at my wall and suddenly > I started doodling and drawing > and you said I was writing > but writing weaves words together > wonderfully so I was really doodling and > drawing and I was in such a hurry > to get through but my assignment > was acting exactly like my lines > and suddenly I get an idea > FRANK O'HARA HAS BEEN KNOCKED OFF! > There are no doodles in composition books > There are no drawings in poetry > I have written lots of poems > and many were perfectly disgraceful > but I was never actually knocked off > oh Frank O'Hara I love you forgive me > > Alan Golding > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From GrahamD Tue Apr 16 11:54:58 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:54:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DE2@mail.ripon.edu> Lovely O'Hara spoof. One good parody deserves another-- With Tenure If Ezra Pound were alive today (and he is) he'd be teaching at a small college in the Pacific northwest and attending the annual convention of writing instructors in St. Louis and railing against tenure, saying tenure is a ladder whose rungs slip out from under the scholar as he climbs upwards to empty heaven by the angels abandoned for tenure killeth the spirit (with tenure no man becomes master) Texts are unwritten with tenure, under the microscope, sous rature it turneth the scholar into a drone decayeth the pipe in his jacket's breast pocket. Hamlet was not written with tenure, nor were written Schubert's lieder nor Manet's Olympia painted with tenure. No man of genius rises by tenure Nor woman (I see you smile). Picasso came not by tenure nor Charlie Parker; Came not by tenure Wallace Stevens Not by tenure Marcel Proust Nor Turner by tenure With tenure hath only the mediocre a sinecure unto death. Unto death, I say! WITH TENURE Nature is constipated the sap doesn't flow With tenure the classroom is empty et in academia ego the ketchup is stuck inside the bottle the letter goes unanswered the bell doesn't ring. --David Lehman. *Operation Memory*. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Alan C Golding > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 9:42 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others > > To bring a little levity to Tax Day, I thought I'd circulate, with her > permission, this imitation by one of my students at the U of Louisville, > Julia Noran. > > PARODY > > Frank O'Hara has been knocked off! > I was staring at my wall and suddenly > I started doodling and drawing > and you said I was writing > but writing weaves words together > wonderfully so I was really doodling and > drawing and I was in such a hurry > to get through but my assignment > was acting exactly like my lines > and suddenly I get an idea > FRANK O'HARA HAS BEEN KNOCKED OFF! > There are no doodles in composition books > There are no drawings in poetry > I have written lots of poems > and many were perfectly disgraceful > but I was never actually knocked off > oh Frank O'Hara I love you forgive me > > Alan Golding > _______________________________________________ > From daisyf1 Wed Apr 17 09:27:26 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:27:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading, NYC Message-ID: <20020417.092727.-307757.2.daisyf1@juno.com> David Lehman and Daisy Fried Wednesday, Apr 24 8:00 PM $10/$12 Location: The JCC in Manhattan, 334 Amsterdam Ave. at 76th St. (Program room assignments will be available at the JCC Customer Service Desk, in the lobby of the Samuel Priest Rose Building.) Co-sponsored by the Poetry Society of America David Lehman is the author of five books of poems, including The Evening Sun and The Daily Mirror, and of The Last Avant-Garde, a book about the New York School. He is the series editor for the Best American Poetry. Daisy Fried is the author of the Starrett-Prize winning book of poems She Didn't Mean to Do It, has been a Pew Fellow in poetry and received the 2001 Leeway Award for Excellence in Poetry. From halvard Wed Apr 17 11:07:01 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:07:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wash, Rinse, Repeat--Some poems revisited Message-ID: For a hardy little band of poems republished online by The Blue Moon Review, just click on this-- http://www.thebluemoon.com/index.shtml Poems by Gene Frumkin, Dick Allen, Elaine Equi, Tom Raworth, Bobby Byrd, Michael Heller, Mark Pawlak, James V. Cervantes, Charles O. Hartman, and Wendy Battin. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From cvoisine Wed Apr 17 12:59:26 2002 From: cvoisine (NMSU) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:59:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #757 - 5 msgs In-Reply-To: <200204131601.g3DG12Q28857@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Thanks to all who responded to my query about critical essays on the nature of the lyric. I have ordered or borrowed from my library each one of those and look forward to digesting them. Connie Voisine From JforJames Wed Apr 17 15:26:17 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:26:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Marie Ponsot Message-ID: <111.10d854ac.29ef2659@aol.com> I was informed that this message came out all garbled the first time round...so I'm trying it again... A poem from 1948 and a poem from 1998 both from SPRINGING: New and Selected Poems by Marie Ponsot +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ St.-Germain-des-Pres: Summer 1948 Crooked like all our ideas of ancient ascension The abbey tower topples a little toward us in the haze, Looking lightning-struck atop the quiet afternoon Or perhaps visited by something toppling in other days. Not now. Now grey, heavy, like a bank, the church A house, is decorative and calm across the square, Convenient for native weddings, funerals. From this cafe It's handsome; it fits; smiling tourists recognize it there. Now the ex-sergeant I've been drinking with has something? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to say: ? ? ("Don't go in there, kid, I been, it's ? ? dangerous, no light what I call light but ? ? inside it's gold all over and the gold is going. ? ? I mean gold air goes blowing, there's an old ? ? sky blue altar up there too, don't let that gold ? ? air blow on you.) Pourriture Noble (1998) a moral tale, for Sauternes, the fungus cenaria, and the wild old Never prophesy. You can't. So don't try. Lust, pride, and lethargy may cause us misery or bliss. The meanest mistake has a point to make. Hear this-- what his vintner d'Eyquem said once the lord of d'Eyquem was dead: ??????"The wine that year promised bad or none. ????????He'd let it go too late. ????????Rot had crawled through all the vines, ????????greasy scum on every cluster ????????dangling at the crotches of the leaves. ????????Should have been long picked ????????but he'd said, 'No. Wait for me,' ????????off to wait on a new woman, ????????grapes on the verge of ripe ????????when he left. Coupling kept him ????????till rot wrapped the grapes like lace ????????& by the time she'd kicked him out ????????the sun had got them, they hung ????????shriveled in the blast. ????????Well, he rode home cocky ????????& bullied the grapes into the vats ????????rot & all, spoiled grapes, too old, ????????too soon squeezed dry. ??????????????????????????????????????The wine makes. ????????The wine makes thick, gold-colored, ????????& pours like honey. ????????We try it. Fantastic! ????????not like honey, punchy, ????????you've never drunk anything like it-- ????????refreshing, in a rush ????????over a heat that slows your throat-- ????????wanting to keep that flavor ????????stuck to the edge of your tongue ????????where your taste is, keep it ????????like the best bouquet you can remember ????????of sundown summer & someone coming ????????to you smiling. The taste has odor ????????like a new country, so fine ????????at first you can't take it in ????????it's so strange. It's beautiful ????????& believe me you love to go slow." moral: Age is not all dry rot. It's never too late. Sweet is your real estate. from SPRINGING Copyright (c) 2002 by Marie Ponsot +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More Marie Ponsot: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/ponsot/poem.html Print out an illustrated broadside of Marie Ponsot's poem "Half Full" http://www.aaknopf.com/poetry/halffull.pdf Marie Ponsot will be reading from her work with Knopf poets Anne Carson, Sapphire, and Cynthia Zarin in the coming weeks: Thursday, April 11, 6:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Museum of NY City, Gotham Readers Series, NY with Sapphire. Co-sponsored by PSA and AAP. Tuesday, April 23, 7:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Fordham University,? 60th street at Lincoln Center, 12th floor Wednesday, April 24, 7:00 p.m. WASHINGTON, DC Chapters, 1512 K Street, NW reading and booksigning with Cynthia Zarin. Tuesday, April 30, 7:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Queens College reading with Anne Carson. Wednesday, May 1 SEATTLE -- CounterBalance Poetry Series Monday, May 13, 7:00 p.m.? NEW YORK -- Corner Bookstore From halvard Wed Apr 17 15:42:16 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:42:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: besmilr brigham, "A Day When the Bare Trees . . ." Message-ID: A Day When the Bare Trees Are Full of Fluttering birds have taken over our chicken runs flocking back against the change sparlings to sweep echoing wings down the unused chimney brick rafters they flow beneath weather paper a colony of usurpers screaming in the barn and mating pairs come back from Mexico--as we have come, deep woods feathers stained hard as jungle leaves raging the fields parrot sprays of color: we sit cold in the house watching their dull efforts hunting for little left quills to put in their nests --besmilr brigham, from her 1971 collection *heaved from the earth* (Knopf) Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From JforJames Wed Apr 17 16:35:28 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:35:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] HaikuHut.com Message-ID: <19c.dd8c27.29ef3690@aol.com> Hello Haiku, and Short Poetry Lover! We at HaikuHut.com are pleased to announce that the inaugural issue of our Monthly on-line magazine for 'short form' poetry, including Haiku, Senryu, Tanka, and all forms of short poetry, SHORT STUFF, is now on-line and available for viewing. We are also accepting SUBMISSIONS for the next issue. Please click on the submission button at the site to view our criteria and submit your work! If you want to see more of a particular style why not send us some of your work! *************************************************************************** New HaikuHut.com E-Zine: SHORT STUFF now on on-line! *************************************************************************** Our new monthly on-line e-Zine: SHORT STUFF is now on-line for viewing. We have interviews, articles, and lots of poetry in many forms, but primarily focusing on Haiku, Senryu, Tanka, and some very creative short poetry, by many very talented writers. We have an interview with Ray Rasmussen, Photographer and poet, on 'photo haiku', as well as a group of 14 wonderful poets from all over the world, whose work covers the gamut from Haiku, Senryu, Cinquain, and many other 'bullets' of poetry. We think we have assembled a first rate group of poets for your reading. Deborah Russell and Michael Rehling - co-Editors CLICK THE LINK BELOW TO VISIT! http://www.haikuhut.com/ShortStuff/ShortStuff.html *************************************************************************** We have also expanded the Photo Haiku section of the site, added some new poets, and our Links section now includes glossary's of haiku and poetic terms, writing helps, lists of other e-Zines that have 'open submission policies, and much more! We want to provide you with the best sources for reading and publishing poetry on the web! Thanks for being part of this work. Sincerely, Michael Rehling www.haikuhut.com and www.poetrylives.com P.S. Click on the link to our on-line store for our Buddha-Line of T-Shirts, Mugs, Cap, etc... From Serbpoet Wed Apr 17 22:56:21 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:56:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic considerations Message-ID: <96.25298786.29ef8fd5@aol.com> Love in all its many guises appears as if the painter had merely smeared the canvas. Yet no synopsis or symphony can convey the mind equally likening himself to a white bull (MINATOUR) where music is the food of desire (hence SHAKESPEARE). A delicate deliberate orchestration of carnal love music poetry (BYRON) and what happens during SEX infuses even the tenderness of the briefest encounters (HEFNER). Astonishing ... thrilling ... heart-stunning ... dazzling ... compelling ... passionate ... exhilirating.... A poetry that can yield to the reader like a geisha and only ask the reader to yield in return like a geisha. This, that is to say, that underlines this, that underlines all of the preceding like this, the exquisite cut-glass bottles with all of that, that this?the different scents of life in them, THAT. But as soon as one steps back and surveys the work, POETRY, from a distance one has the impression of a colorful irresistible painting portrait landscape stillife sonnet lyric pantoum. It subjects one to a kind of rollercoaster ride so that the reader emerges at the end of the poem gasping, blinking reshaped in a hundered different ways held together by the emotional/ideological struts of the 19th century. But if God is dead . . . then???????? Anna From JforJames Thu Apr 18 11:41:13 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:41:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sugar Mule seeking erotica Message-ID: <90.2478fb2d.29f04319@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:57:59 +0100 From: M L Weber Subject: seeking erotica www.SugarMule.com is looking for literary erotica (poetry and prose) ------------------------------------ Online now - issue 10 - "on the road" Poetry Pierre Joris CANTO DIURNO #2 Karl Young from Milestones Prose Paul Beckman Three pieces Andrei Codrescu Road Kill Shawn Davis Shakedown Paul Alan Fahey A Solitary Sound Herbert Foster Kaufman My Last Run John J. Maguire The Former Traveller Rochelle Ratner Popping Seaweed Wayne Scheer Road Trip Lawrence Upton Hesperides Harriet Zinnes Without Any Pressing Need From Jholmes Thu Apr 18 14:32:18 2002 From: Jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:32:18 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading in St. Paul, MN Message-ID: Anyone here from St. Paul? I'll be doing a reading from my new book HUMANOPHONE at Ruminator Books (formerly The Hungry Mind) on Saturday, April 27, at 7 p.m. along with poet Greg Hewett. I hope to meet some of you there. Janet Holmes From FanwoodJEL Thu Apr 18 17:56:48 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:56:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Launch of the Tupelo Press Village Reading Series Message-ID: <111.10e79bf8.29f09b20@aol.com> Join Us This Sunday, April 21st (7:30 pm) for the maiden voyage of the TUPELO PRESS VILLAGE READING SERIES at Pangea This week: Matthew Zapruder, Sally Dawidoff, Ellen Rachlin, Jessica Grant Bundschuh, and Jeffrey Levine Dinner after. Leftover Tupelo Press cake with melted green icing. Hot and cold running spirits and muses. Pangea Bar & Restaurant ~ 178 Second Avenue, btwn 12th & 11th Streets ~ 212-995-0900 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Thu Apr 18 19:33:40 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:33:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 by Albert Murray Message-ID: <70.1b758202.29f0b1d4@aol.com> Albert Murray is the author of many fiction and nonfiction titles, along with the long poem TRAIN WHISTLE GUITAR -- the poems below are from his new collection of poems, CONJUGATIONS AND REITERATIONS. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Private Stock thelonius the syncopating monk whose preferred cloistersphere seemed to be the misty morning atmosphere of the after hours joint from which the last of the nightlong merrymakers have departed. in all events he almost always used to seem to be resampling his honky-tonk piano meditations and up-tempo stride time etudes as much for his own private edification as for the programmed entertainment of any paying audience indeed thelonius made music as some monks have always made and shared wine: here's something else to my taste try this how about this or this Pas de Deux (I) all art, said old water pater, speaking of sandro botticelli, constantly aspires toward the condition of music. so it is swing that is the supreme fiction, madam, for (given the concreteness of physical experience per se) our primary concern is the quality of our consciousness (how we feel about it all) and swing, which is movement and countermovement which is life itself, is that elegant resilience that poetry would reenact, its verbalization being aesthetic kinetics! after all, madam (or rather first of all), is not the primordial function of verbal enchantment the refinement of our physical responses? the objective of poetry is to be moving, madam, poetry is the supreme effort to make words swing. but according to vico, (giambattista, 1668-1744) before articulation became narration there was only exclamation (onomatopoeia) along with pantomime yes, as jamesjoyce came to know and kennethburke came to say, poetry is symbolic action and symbolic action, madam, is the dancing of an attitude, and dance, madam, don't mean a thing minus the insouciant element of swing there's your supreme fiction, madam, it ain't waht you do it's the way that you do it. l'envoie: it must never be more gynastic than elegant II. swinging is never uptight, my good fellow, no sweat, my man, cool, old pardner, up-tempo relaxation as it were, moreover, given the inevitability of entropy and the ineluctable modality of perception and thus conception swinging is not only the most elegant mathematical solution it is also the best revenge from CONJUGATIONS AND REITERATIONS Copyright (c) 2002 by Albert Murray From grahamd Fri Apr 19 11:24:35 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:24:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bouquet of Rogers Message-ID: <200204191524.g3JFO4I92995@mx7.mx.voyager.net> I just stumbled across a little online anthology of Pattiann Rogers poems, as selected by Diane Ackerman, Naomi Shihab Nye, Richard Howard, and others--with brief commentaries. On the theory that there is seldom enough Pattiann Rogers in most of our days, I offer it to you. At the Milkweed press web site: http://www.milkweed.org/3_3_7.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From JforJames Fri Apr 19 12:32:27 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:32:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Lannan Audio downloads Message-ID: <1a5.ffb4a6.29f1a09b@aol.com> http://www.lannan.org/audio/ I recently ran across these free downloads, of readings & talks, produced by the Lannan Foundation. Finnegan From Arielpf123 Fri Apr 19 12:58:21 2002 From: Arielpf123 (Arielpf123 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:58:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Lannan Audio downloads Message-ID: <120.eeb231a.29f1a6ad@aol.com> In a message dated 4/19/02 12:33:55 PM, JforJames at aol.com writes: << I recently ran across these free downloads, of readings & talks, produced by the Lannan Foundation. >> a very major thanks for this!! patf From grahamd Fri Apr 19 15:59:26 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:59:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <200204191958.g3JJwqt22343@mx11.mx.voyager.net> Interested in Gerald Stern's thoughts on the sonnet? From Norton: http://www.nortonpoets.com -------------- Now in the Poet's Workshop -- the second of two essays this month: Gerald Stern: Thoughts on the Sonnet ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From Rsgwynn1 Fri Apr 19 17:49:57 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:49:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <1a5.ff84d0.29f1eb05@cs.com> In a message dated 4/19/2002 2:59:55 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at mail.ripon.edu writes: > > Interested in Gerald Stern's thoughts on the sonnet? From Norton: > > http://www.nortonpoets.com > > Mr. Stern should stick to road-kill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Apr 19 18:44:12 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:44:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <200204192242.g3JMgxu36249@mx8.mx.voyager.net> Notwithstanding debates on sonnet formulae, I admit to a longstanding fondness for Mr. Stern, an often charming gas bag. Hope I'm still writing at his age. In his honor, I offer the following little song: BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stern Sonneteer Date: Fri, Apr 19, 2002, 4:49 PM In a message dated 4/19/2002 2:59:55 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at mail.ripon.edu writes: Interested in Gerald Stern's thoughts on the sonnet? From Norton: http://www.nortonpoets.com Mr. Stern should stick to road-kill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Apr 19 19:22:45 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:22:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer References: <200204192242.g3JMgxu36249@mx8.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <008901c1e7f9$1ce61c00$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Re: Stern SonneteerHunh, I liked this one, David--does that mean I might like Gerald Stern? I know I've read poems of his, but none of them made me try to read more. --Bob G. BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. --David Graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Apr 20 12:28:11 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:28:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <200204201627.g3KGRfi28469@mx12.mx.voyager.net> Hard to say whether you'd like Gerald Stern, Bob. Let's proceed inductively. Below you'll find a tiny sample of Stern Old and Stern New. My parody of Mr. Stern, like most of the infrequent parodies I write, definitely proceeds from love/hate. Scorn alone seldom works for me. (Heaven knows I've tried. . . .) Stern's style hasn't changed that much down the years, seems to me. Of course, he didn't break into print with his first (hard to find) book until he was 48 years old. By the time his first major press volume, Lucky Life, hit print, he was 52. But in the past quarter century he's certainly made up for lost time. David Graham _________________________________ Behaving Like a Jew When I got there the dead opossum looked like an enormous baby sleeping on the road. It took me only a few seconds--just seeing him there--with the hole in his back and the wind blowing through his hair to get back again into my animal sorrow. I am sick of the country, the bloodstained bumpers, the stiff hairs sticking out of the grilles, the slimy highways, the heavy birds refusing to move; I am sick of the spirit of Lindbergh over everything, that joy in death, that philosophical understanding of carnage, that concentration on the species. --I am going to be unappeased at the opposum's death. I am going to behave like a Jew and touch his face, and stare into his eyes, and pull him off the road. I am not going to stand in a wet ditch with the Toyotas and the Chevies passing over me at sixty miles an hour and praise the beauty and the balance and lose myself in the immortal lifestream when my hands are still a little shaky from his stiffness and his bulk and my eyes are still weak and misty from his round belly and his curved fingers and his black whiskers and his little dancing feet. --Gerald Stern. Lucky Life. (1977) Winter Thirst I grew up with bituminous in my mouth and sulfur smelling like rotten eggs and I first started to cough because my lungs were like cardboard; and what we called snow was gray with black flecks that were like glue when it came to snowballs and made them hard and crusty, though we still ate the snow anyhow, and as for filth, well, start with smoke, I carried it with me I know everywhere and someone sitting beside me in New York or Paris would know where I came from, we would go in for dinner ? red meat loaf or brown choucroute ? and he would guess my hill, and we would talk about soot and what a dirty neck was like and how the white collar made a fine line; and I told him how we pulled heavy wagons and loaded boxcars every day from five to one a.m. and how good it was walking empty-handed to the no. 69 streetcar and how I dreamed of my bath and how the water was black and soapy then and what the void was like and how a candle instructed me. --Gerald Stern. American Sonnets (2002). ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: "Bob Grumman" To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Date: Fri, Apr 19, 2002, 6:22 PM Hunh, I liked this one, David--does that mean I might like Gerald Stern? I know I've read poems of his, but none of them made me try to read more. --Bob G. BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. --David Graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Apr 20 13:15:32 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:15:32 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: In a message dated 4/19/02 7:24:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: << BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. --David Graham >> Bravo David, all the best and all the "wurst" of this bald, bold, wild & wooly bouncing off-the-walls American poet, distilled almost to sonnet length. Finnegan From JforJames Sat Apr 20 13:46:11 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:46:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 4-21 NYT Book Review of Marie Ponsot (& she makes the cover) Message-ID: <130.d0edc20.29f30363@aol.com> (At least it wasn't Adam Kirsch again reviewing in the NYTimes Book Review.) The review was by one David Orr, described as a lawyer & writer from NYC. In the review he makes a half dozen references to TV and pop-culture, apropos to nothing in Ponsot's work...just another one of those poor ol' poetry cliches: an art form that when it's not deservingly disliked, is so often misunderstood or overlooked in our culture. (Would the constant bemoaners about the current state of poetry please vacate the premises. You know the one about hitting your head against a brickwall...it really does feel good when you stop.) Anyway, to his credit, Orr does quote amply from Ponsot's poetry. And her work, though confoundingly idiosyncratic at times, does deserve the high-profile attention. Finnegan From bobgrumman Sat Apr 20 13:46:40 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:46:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer References: <200204201627.g3KGRfi28469@mx12.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <002201c1e893$54e031a0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Re: Stern SonneteerThanks for the Stern samples, David. I now remember the roadkill poem. I don't find it a poem that's very fair to the ideas it's arguing against (though I'm a bit of a fanatic against the roadkill-aspect of our society's need to expand at any cost)--and I tend not to like Poems as Great Moral Expressions. His school of poetics ain't mine, neither. Your parody seems a much better poem to me than his. In fact, you poem doesn't seem anywhere near the parody to me that his first seems. Your poem is silly but aware of its silliness, and seems better composed than his, with a bouncier imagination. Maybe I just like its sentiments better for a poem than the ones in his, I dunno. Or poems with Wallace Stevens in them. . . . --Bob G. Hard to say whether you'd like Gerald Stern, Bob. Let's proceed inductively. Below you'll find a tiny sample of Stern Old and Stern New. My parody of Mr. Stern, like most of the infrequent parodies I write, definitely proceeds from love/hate. Scorn alone seldom works for me. (Heaven knows I've tried. . . .) Stern's style hasn't changed that much down the years, seems to me. Of course, he didn't break into print with his first (hard to find) book until he was 48 years old. By the time his first major press volume, Lucky Life, hit print, he was 52. But in the past quarter century he's certainly made up for lost time. David Graham _________________________________ Behaving Like a Jew When I got there the dead opossum looked like an enormous baby sleeping on the road. It took me only a few seconds--just seeing him there--with the hole in his back and the wind blowing through his hair to get back again into my animal sorrow. I am sick of the country, the bloodstained bumpers, the stiff hairs sticking out of the grilles, the slimy highways, the heavy birds refusing to move; I am sick of the spirit of Lindbergh over everything, that joy in death, that philosophical understanding of carnage, that concentration on the species. --I am going to be unappeased at the opposum's death. I am going to behave like a Jew and touch his face, and stare into his eyes, and pull him off the road. I am not going to stand in a wet ditch with the Toyotas and the Chevies passing over me at sixty miles an hour and praise the beauty and the balance and lose myself in the immortal lifestream when my hands are still a little shaky from his stiffness and his bulk and my eyes are still weak and misty from his round belly and his curved fingers and his black whiskers and his little dancing feet. --Gerald Stern. Lucky Life. (1977) Winter Thirst I grew up with bituminous in my mouth and sulfur smelling like rotten eggs and I first started to cough because my lungs were like cardboard; and what we called snow was gray with black flecks that were like glue when it came to snowballs and made them hard and crusty, though we still ate the snow anyhow, and as for filth, well, start with smoke, I carried it with me I know everywhere and someone sitting beside me in New York or Paris would know where I came from, we would go in for dinner < red meat loaf or brown choucroute < and he would guess my hill, and we would talk about soot and what a dirty neck was like and how the white collar made a fine line; and I told him how we pulled heavy wagons and loaded boxcars every day from five to one a.m. and how good it was walking empty-handed to the no. 69 streetcar and how I dreamed of my bath and how the water was black and soapy then and what the void was like and how a candle instructed me. --Gerald Stern. American Sonnets (2002). ====== Hunh, I liked this one, David--does that mean I might like Gerald Stern? I know I've read poems of his, but none of them made me try to read more. --Bob G. BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. --David Graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Apr 20 14:42:20 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:42:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <200204201841.g3KIfn236508@mx12.mx.voyager.net> >Bravo David, >all the best and all the "wurst" of this bald, bold, >wild & wooly bouncing off-the-walls American poet, >distilled almost to sonnet length. >Finnegan Ah, but you know that a sonnet may be of ANY length. Mr. Stern told me so! When I think of Stern I sometimes think of Les Murray's poem "The Quality of Sprawl." Among current Americans, Stern's one of the most sprawling. His new book, *American Sonnets*, interests me because, in the few samples from it I've seen, it looks as though the limited length of the poems does tame Stern's more self-indulgent, sprawling side a bit, creating some productive tensions. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From odysseus34 Sat Apr 20 15:38:11 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:38:11 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer References: <200204201627.g3KGRfi28469@mx12.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <3CC1C38C.44F39E0@earthlink.net> "just a sort of training moan" -- god, that's funny. I believe the X.J. Kennedy anthology we were force to study from in high school paired "Behaving Like a Jew" with "Travelling into the Dark." I do remember wondering what the hell "behaving like a Jew" meant to the poet. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From snospx Sat Apr 20 19:12:56 2002 From: snospx (Barry Spacks) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 16:12:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] another stern bravo In-Reply-To: <200204201933.g3KJX2Q02063@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020420161256.007f63c0@snowcrest.net> >Finnegan wrote: >Bravo David, >all the best and all the "wurst" of this bald, bold, >wild & wooly bouncing off-the-walls American poet, >distilled almost to sonnet length. **** Graham's Stern's so Stern, so burns with wit I bet Stern yearns to have Stern'd it. Barry From JforJames Sat Apr 20 22:12:50 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:12:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Yet Another Wei? Message-ID: <64.1ddd4c53.29f37a22@aol.com> Many of you may be familar with Eliot Weinbergers 19 Ways of Looking at Wang Wei...well, here's the 20th... Finnegan Poetry Daily http://www.poems.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Readers, Our thanks to MARILYN CHIN for today's special Poet's Pick: WANG WEI, "DEER ENCLOSURE" We are bringing you a special poem each weekday in April as part of our annual fund-raising campaign and in celebration of National Poetry Month and our 5th anniversary online. Please help us to continue in service to you and to poetry by making a tax-deductible contribution to Poetry Daily! Find out how you can make your contribution online at http://www.poems.com/support/support.htm or print out the online form and send it with your check or money order, payable to "Poetry Daily" in U.S. dollars, to: The Daily Poetry Association P.O. Box 1306 Charlottesville, VA 22902-1306 USA Contributors of $25-$35 will receive a choice of our Poetry Daily coffee mug or our PD mouse pad. Contributors of $35 or more will receive our new PD T-shirt (a stone-washed green, Hanes 100% cotton "Beefy T," with our logo front & back). All receive our heartfelt thanks and the thanks of Poetry Daily readers everywhere! Enjoy today's special poem! Diane Boller, Rob Anderson, Don Selby Editors staff at poems.com ------------------------------------------------------- MARILYN CHIN'S POETRY MONTH PICK, 4/19/02 "Deer Enclosure" by Wang Wei (Tang Dynasty, China) Empty Mountain, no humans But human voices are heard The light seeks through the deep forest And shimmers upon the green moss *Marilyn Chin comments: "The place is in Wang Wei's country retreat of vast acreage. Wang Wei was a wealthy, privileged court poet in his time and very famous. Westerners sometimes mistake his Buddhist hermit poems as being written by a poor ascetic poet. Well, let's just say that he was so rich that he owned a private retreat: I think of it as his own Yaddo. I am bowled over by Wang Wei's ability to make concrete details convey the spiritual. The landscape in this Buddhist poem is really 'inscape,' where human voices are tuned out by the poet's meditation and enlightenment. The light seeks through the forest and finds that clump of moss. The moss glitters in the poet's state of 'sitting,' of deep contemplation. The poet's consciousness and nature are one." MARILYN CHIN is the author of *Rhapsody in Plain Yellow*, *The Phoenix Gone, the Terrace Empty*, winner of the PEN Josephine Miles Award, and *Dwarf Bamboo*. She was born in Hong Kong and raised in Portland, Oregon. Two National Endowment for the Arts Fellowships, two Fulbright Fellowships, a Stegner Fellowship, four Pushcart Prizes, and a Mary Roberts Rinehart Award count among her many honors. Chin is currently on the faculty of the M.F.A. program at San Diego State University. She considers the Pacific Rim her home and San Diego her most recent exile. **Don't forget! -- If you enjoy our regular features and special events like this one, please join Marilyn Chin in supporting Poetry Daily by making a tax-deductible contribution. For more information and for secure online contributions: http://www.poems.com/support/support.htm ---------------------------------------------------- Copyright 2002 by the Daily Poetry Association. All rights reserved. http://www.poems.com/ From Serbpoet Sun Apr 21 21:04:46 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:04:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] POETRY LESsONS Message-ID: <15d.cba4d43.29f4bbae@aol.com> ANNOUNCING POETRYLESONS $1,000 per 50 LESSONS Anna Szymborbia has published in Paris Review, Conjunctions, Raritan, NEW YORKER, plus many others. Has taughrt at RIPOPN COLLEGE, ST JOHNS, YAKLE, PRINCETON. Guarantee will place your efforts in journals. Not queer or identity poetry will be sought. English required. E-mail for details. From gmcvay Sun Apr 21 21:17:50 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:17:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] POETRY LESsONS References: <15d.cba4d43.29f4bbae@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CC363BB.E2BBF6F@patriot.net> >>>Not queer or identity poetry will be sought.<<< Well, making only $20 per lesson, you sure wouldn't want to have to handle any unhygienic poetry. I will, however, continue reading Ginsberg without benefit of latex gloves to turn the pages. Gwyn From alphavil Sun Apr 21 23:04:11 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:04:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Eschatology of Reason References: <15d.cba4d43.29f4bbae@aol.com> <3CC363BB.E2BBF6F@patriot.net> Message-ID: <3CC37DAA.9C2A1B47@ix.netcom.com> A very brief and straightforward clip from Eschatology of Reason. All the material in quotes, except for the one quote from the bible, are from esteemed scientists and engineers whose deep and exclusive understanding and rigor seems to break down just about when they open their mouths. Carlo Parcelli from Eschatology of Reason "If biologists could 'rewind the tape' of evolution..." In the apocalyptic shuttle of commutability "They would have a full ensemble" And somehow only incrementally. And since "Embryonic cells are just robots in disguise" "Humanity is thus...a mere passing station... A critical gateway to the open-ended universe." Predestined "to create its own successors" Already "out there waiting." "Other forms of life, Artificial ones, That want To come into existence." His business card reads, "Larry Yeager, Microcosmic God"; Eschatological fallout From alphavil Sun Apr 21 23:09:46 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:09:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Eschatology of Reason References: <15d.cba4d43.29f4bbae@aol.com> <3CC363BB.E2BBF6F@patriot.net> <3CC37DAA.9C2A1B47@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3CC37EF9.7C705F01@ix.netcom.com> Apologies for the destruction of the spacing. CP "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" wrote: > A very brief and straightforward clip from Eschatology of Reason. All the > material in quotes, except for the one quote from the bible, are from > esteemed scientists and engineers whose deep and exclusive understanding and > rigor seems to break down just about when they open their mouths. Carlo > Parcelli > > from Eschatology of Reason > > "If biologists could 'rewind the tape' of evolution..." > In the apocalyptic shuttle of commutability > "They would have a full ensemble" > And somehow only > incrementally. > And since "Embryonic cells are just robots in disguise" > "Humanity is thus...a mere passing station... > A critical gateway to the > open-ended universe." > Predestined "to create its own successors" > Already "out there waiting." > "Other forms of life, > Artificial ones, > That want > To come into existence." > His business card reads, > "Larry Yeager, Microcosmic God"; > Eschatological fallout > >From the algorithmic romance > With immortality. > The void will not record that > Life was fumbled in the hands of such mediocrity. > All science is "the science of > last things." > The instrument of extinction. > Consciousness has been but the waiting pavement. > Artificial life is a flashback to the fall > And Literature has snapped together literal. > "Dead things could behave as if they were alive!" > "Everyone could see that the flocking was real. > Here were artificial birds really > flocking." > Not aware that "Life is a verb." > "...Adam gave names...to the fowl of the air." > "But then biologists will merely redefine life." > "Assembling it from pieces" > Or one piece, if "flocking" > Is to be a bird. > Yet who heard this mocking > That is to be > The mocking bird? > > p.181 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames Mon Apr 22 10:19:23 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:19:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 39 (2002) Message-ID: <72.1b3df057.29f575eb@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:13:31 -0400 From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 39 (2002) Three Poems by James Sallis The Death of Virgil | The Death of Poetry | Artaud James Sallis' most recent collection of poems, Sorrow's Kitchen, came out from Michigan State UP in 2000. Black Night's Gonna Catch Me Here: Selected Poems is due out from Salmon Publishing, County Clare, Ireland, late this year, 2002. [There is no duplication between the two volumes.] Other books include Chester Himes: A Life, named a notable book of the year, 2001, by the New York Times, and Ghost of a Flea, his most recent novel, 2001, that occasioned an essay for the Times' ongoing feature "Writers on Writing." Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark at unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark From Serbpoet Mon Apr 22 20:05:42 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:05:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality Message-ID: <149.d5482e1.29f5ff56@aol.com> I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. Anna From grahamd Mon Apr 22 20:50:08 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:50:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Homosexuality Message-ID: <200204230049.g3N0nb293343@mx9.mx.voyager.net> I for one would pay good money to see a poet descibew almost anything. Easier said than done. David Graham (I'm cheap even for a Cheesehead Poet) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== >I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as >bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as >Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling >toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what >you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices >for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > >Anna From gmcvay Mon Apr 22 21:22:51 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: <149.d5482e1.29f5ff56@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Apr 2002 Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as > bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as > Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling > toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what > you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices > for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > Dear Anna, 1. Being female, I go by "Ms." 2. I have no children. I have three cats, and nobody has yet informed me of any sexual desires toward them. This is good, because all three cats are neutered. 3. There is no doubt that what Ginsberg describes is distasteful to some. But at least he was honest. I'll take honesty over a respectable facade any day, as when boy-loving priests pretend to have no sexual desire at all, while in fact molesting their altar boys. 4. I am not from New York and have also never published in the New Yorker. I do think you are pricing yourself a bit low. Around here, editors of the most painfully boring sort of business communication start around $20/hr. With all due respect, I remain Gwyn (a woman) From jvcervantes Mon Apr 22 21:22:56 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:22:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Homosexuality References: <200204230049.g3N0nb293343@mx9.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <3CC4B770.B4AE8E70@earthlink.net> But isn't it a somewhat fresh surprise to see "Billie" back? - Jim David Graham wrote: > > I for one would pay good money to see a poet descibew almost anything. > Easier said than done. > > David Graham (I'm cheap even for a Cheesehead Poet) > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > >I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as > >bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as > >Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling > >toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what > >you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices > >for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > > > >Anna > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards Mon Apr 22 22:37:31 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:37:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Homosexuality References: <200204230049.g3N0nb293343@mx9.mx.voyager.net> <3CC4B770.B4AE8E70@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00b701c1ea6f$d1929ac0$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> I dunno...I preferred the original Billie. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Homosexuality > But isn't it a somewhat fresh surprise to see "Billie" back? > > - Jim > > David Graham wrote: > > > > I for one would pay good money to see a poet descibew almost anything. > > Easier said than done. > > > > David Graham (I'm cheap even for a Cheesehead Poet) > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ======================================== > > > > >I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as > > >bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as > > >Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling > > >toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what > > >you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices > > >for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > > > > > >Anna > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From marcus Tue Apr 23 07:20:09 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:20:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: References: <149.d5482e1.29f5ff56@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CC50B29.1631.5B6105@localhost> > But at least he was honest. I'll take honesty over a respectable facade > any day...<< This view would exclude, it seems to me, most art -- including much of Ginsberg's. I, for one, simply do not believe that honesty is better in art than artifice. Artifice is what makes art art. Honesty is simply not art, nor is it any significant part of art. Give me an entertaining and compelling lie over mere trivial honesty in art any time. For example, don't you hate that phrase some people use in telling an anecdote: "True story ...!" ? I do -- my instant response is "Forget the true story, pal -- how about something that you made up and that is FUNNY." Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Robtberner Tue Apr 23 08:36:01 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:36:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] artifice Message-ID: <14b.cc6f311.29f6af31@aol.com> marcus bales writes that artifice is what makes art art. oh? seems to me that art makes art and artifice makes artificiality. and if he really prefers lies, there are plenty in the wall street journal five days a week and in any press briefing by ari fleisher, all dressed in the loveliest artifices of speech ever conceived by a spinmeister or a p r man. honest. Robert Berner From Robtberner Tue Apr 23 08:54:19 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:54:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] funny, honest art Message-ID: <19d.12807c6.29f6b37b@aol.com> on april 20 the british newspaper TheIndependent revealed that the bush administration pandered to exxon's wishes by engineering the removal of Dr. Robert Watson from a UN panel on climate change. A friend of mine, Michael P. (Let's Drill Here) Dumont sent me the following ditty: The Exxon Valdez lives!!! Pass the bottle while I navigate this shoal... Just a little drink, whadduh-yuh think? Pass the glass, I'll say skol, Oh, whatthe hell, it's just a little hole. Oil the critters, grease those birds, It's leaked to the press, oh my words, Exxon in a pile of turds. robert berner From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 23 09:11:24 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:11:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality Message-ID: In a message dated 4/22/2002 7:07:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Serbpoet at aol.com writes: > > I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as > bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as > Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews > curling > toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this > what > you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low > prices > for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > > Anna > He's baaaaaack! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcus Tue Apr 23 09:50:00 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:50:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] artifice In-Reply-To: <14b.cc6f311.29f6af31@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CC52E48.19280.E70D5@localhost> > Robert Berner: > marcus bales writes that artifice is what makes art art. oh? seems to me > that art makes art and artifice makes artificiality. and if he really prefers > lies, there are plenty in the wall street journal five days a week and in any > press briefing by ari fleisher, all dressed in the loveliest artifices of > speech ever conceived by a spinmeister or a p r man. honest. Not all lies are art. Not all art is lies, unless you want to be really a stickler about it and say that all language is necessarily lying because it involves selection and emphasis and cannot convey the totality of the experience it purports to describe or evoke. What I said was that honesty doesn't make art, and that I prefer art to mere honesty, even if that art is fiction -- or, in short, lies. But lying doesn't make something art any more than honesty makes something art. Art is not merely lying or merely honesty -- it's artifice in the service of evocation. Whether any piece of art is lying or honest has little, or nothing, to do with whether it is art. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Janet.Kieffer Tue Apr 23 10:00:36 2002 From: Janet.Kieffer (Janet Kieffer) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:00:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] artifice Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Marcus Bales [mailto:marcus at designerglass.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:50 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] artifice Not all lies are art. Not all art is lies, unless you want to be really a stickler about it and say that all language is necessarily lying because it involves selection and emphasis and cannot convey the totality of the experience it purports to describe or evoke. What I said was that honesty doesn't make art, and that I prefer art to mere honesty, even if that art is fiction -- or, in short, lies. But lying doesn't make something art any more than honesty makes something art. Art is not merely lying or merely honesty -- it's artifice in the service of evocation. Whether any piece of art is lying or honest has little, or nothing, to do with whether it is art. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely Marcus, really--are you going KEEGAN on us? From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 10:05:57 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:05:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: <3CC50B29.1631.5B6105@localhost> Message-ID: It's not a *complete* measure of art, by any means, and "honesty" is sometimes a slippery bugger (!) anyway, but don't you find it more humorous to know that there really is a biomolecular researcher named Professor W. W. Webb (you can search on him/her as author in PubMed), than to have that name given to a fictional character? It *sounds* like a dorky little animated character that Microsoft would put in to walk you through using the latest Internet Explorer, but it's an actual person, who is probably well tired of jokes to his/her face about having been created by Al Gore. (Not to mention publishing in a journal routinely abbreviated to Anal. Chem.) Gwyn From marcus Tue Apr 23 10:27:59 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:27:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: References: <3CC50B29.1631.5B6105@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC5372F.26101.313889@localhost> Gwyn: > ... don't you find it more > humorous to know that there really is a biomolecular researcher named > Professor W. W. Webb (you can search on him/her as author in PubMed), than > to have that name given to a fictional character? ...< I don't know if it's "more" humorous -- it's a different kind of humor. Why do we find PG Wodehouse's village names funny (though made up) in a way we don't find actual village names funny (though the real ones are funny in another way)? What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" humorous than the other? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 10:29:22 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: <3CC5372F.26101.313889@localhost> Message-ID: > I don't know if it's "more" humorous -- it's a different kind of humor. > Why do we find PG Wodehouse's village names funny (though > made up) in a way we don't find actual village names funny (though > the real ones are funny in another way)? > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > humorous than the other? > Dear Marcus, I blush to confess that at my advanced age, I have not yet read a single Wodehouse, though my husband has great heaps of them lying around. I regret that I must table answering your questions until I have personally investigated said heaps. Yours as ever, Gwyn From Henry_Gould Tue Apr 23 10:30:27 2002 From: Henry_Gould (Henry Gould) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:30:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: truth & artifice In-Reply-To: References: <3CC50B29.1631.5B6105@localhost> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020423102026.00ab0450@postoffice.brown.edu> Ornament & structure balance each other. No filigree without a dome. No arabesque without a plumbline. We turn truth into song as our approximation of an awesome real - Yeats' "mighty scene". Truth & artifice are not discrete but welded together - in order to prevail over falsehood & emptiness. From Serbpoet Tue Apr 23 11:09:01 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:09:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality Message-ID: <12d.101b61ca.29f6d30d@aol.com> "Truth & artifice are not discrete but welded together - in order to prevail over falsehood & emptiness." I am in accord thus. Vi nazivaete sebya estemlerami--"falsehood is the ghost toes of an amputee." Dear My Critics, By picking the noses in spite of every admonitions to the opposite behavior, or when you see you sticking your finger nonstop through a buttonholes...the analytic doctor knows that the the appetite of the lustful ones knows not of any limits in his phantasies. I am worship to beauty of poetry. Let be my critic to demean self. I cannot be. Anna From GrahamD Tue Apr 23 11:42:13 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:42:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorsexuality Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E00@mail.ripon.edu> Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. David Graham, ever-patient (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Marcus Bales > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > humorous than the other? > > > > Marcus Bales > > From marcus Tue Apr 23 11:53:01 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:53:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: References: <3CC5372F.26101.313889@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC54B1D.11878.7F1550@localhost> > I blush to confess that at my advanced age, I have not yet read a single > Wodehouse, though my husband has great heaps of them lying around. I > regret that I must table answering your questions until I have personally > investigated said heaps. Are names such as Duntisbourne Leer or Cold Aston or Ampney Crucis funnier or less funny than Totleigh-in-the-Wold, or Lower Smattering-on- the-Wissel? And why? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 11:50:30 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Deeper Meaning of Liff, by Douglas Adams In-Reply-To: <3CC54B1D.11878.7F1550@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Marcus Bales wrote: > > I blush to confess that at my advanced age, I have not yet read a single > > Wodehouse, though my husband has great heaps of them lying around. I > > regret that I must table answering your questions until I have personally > > investigated said heaps. > > Are names such as Duntisbourne Leer or Cold Aston or Ampney Crucis > funnier or less funny than Totleigh-in-the-Wold, or Lower Smattering-on- > the-Wissel? > > And why? > Nope. Still not gonna answer this one until I've read at least one of the books, so's I can see the names in context. There is a hint, however, in the now-changed subject line. Gwyn From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 23 12:03:37 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:03:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] artifice Message-ID: <95.1b5d9ffc.29f6dfd9@cs.com> John Ciardi used to say, "A poem lies its way to the truth." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Serbpoet Tue Apr 23 12:15:12 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:15:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality Message-ID: <72.1b519626.29f6e290@aol.com> Nor can one aid to the EXILE caught by death In a New Worlds sub urban ghetto exposed to the hot breath Of this AMERICA, this humid night: Through unslatted blinds the strips of colory light Grope for her bed--poets of the past With philtered gemmy girdles--and life is ebbing fast. Esto est votchez ut mid ik dett. From hruggier Tue Apr 23 12:55:22 2002 From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:55:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorsexuality References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E00@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CC591FA.5FAB31E9@localnet.com> Should we all descwibe what we think is funny? H R "Graham, David" wrote: > Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, > of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. > > Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. > > David Graham, ever-patient > > (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > > ---------- > > From: Marcus Bales > > > > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > > humorous than the other? > > > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gudding Tue Apr 23 13:20:47 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:20:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: <3CC591FA.5FAB31E9@localnet.com> Message-ID: It's generally accepted that there are three main theories of humor. 1. The Superiority Theory. Generally considered to stem from Th. Hobbes, who said that laughter results from a sense of "sudden glory" that comes over someone when he or she feels superior to another. Thus we laugh at clows because they are foolish, stupid, clumsy. 2. The Incongruity Theory. Generlly considered to stem from Kant and Schopenhauer, who suggested that we laugh at something when it affronts our sense of order. Thus we laugh at clowns because they have incongruously big shoes, round red noses, orange hair, ride small bicycles and walk with a strange gait. 3. The Repression Theory. Laughter is a relieved expression of dissent against reason, order, civility, rules and laws. Promulgated by Freud. Thus we laugh at clowns because they are bucking the system, being offensive, fucking the man, being unreasonable, and throwing mule dung at the ring master. There are other theories that are pretty cool, too. I especially like Henri Bergson's, which insists that the comic is something "mechanical encrusted upon the living." That is to say, that machines are funny. Thus Flann O'Brien's discursions upon the bicycle in _The Third Policeman_ or Beckett's discursions upon the same in _Molloy_ are funny because machines are necessarily funny. Gabriel Gudding On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Helen Ruggieri wrote: > Should we all descwibe what we think is funny? > > H R > > "Graham, David" wrote: > > > Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, > > of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. > > > > Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. > > > > David Graham, ever-patient > > > > (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ======================================== > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > > > humorous than the other? > > > > > > > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jvcervantes Tue Apr 23 13:26:23 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:26:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorsexuality References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E00@mail.ripon.edu> <3CC591FA.5FAB31E9@localnet.com> Message-ID: <3CC5993E.4B93C470@earthlink.net> Dis thwed is funny. - Jimmikins Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > Should we all descwibe what we think is funny? > > H R > > "Graham, David" wrote: > > > Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, > > of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. > > > > Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. > > > > David Graham, ever-patient > > > > (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ======================================== > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > > > humorous than the other? > > > > > > > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes Tue Apr 23 13:28:58 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:28:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality References: Message-ID: <3CC599D9.F83C0EC0@earthlink.net> But those are all just different ways of getting to the real payoff: release of endorphins and that feeling in the tummy of being in dolphins. - Jim, who flunked chemistry and physiology "Gabriel M. Gudding" wrote: > > It's generally accepted that there are three main theories of humor. > > 1. The Superiority Theory. Generally considered to stem from Th. Hobbes, > who said that laughter results from a sense of "sudden glory" that comes > over someone when he or she feels superior to another. Thus we laugh at > clows because they are foolish, stupid, clumsy. > > 2. The Incongruity Theory. Generlly considered to stem from Kant and > Schopenhauer, who suggested that we laugh at something when it affronts > our sense of order. Thus we laugh at clowns because they have > incongruously big shoes, round red noses, orange hair, ride small bicycles > and walk with a strange gait. > > 3. The Repression Theory. Laughter is a relieved expression of dissent > against reason, order, civility, rules and laws. Promulgated by Freud. > Thus we laugh at clowns because they are bucking the system, being > offensive, fucking the man, being unreasonable, and throwing mule dung at > the ring master. > > There are other theories that are pretty cool, too. I especially like > Henri Bergson's, which insists that the comic is something "mechanical > encrusted upon the living." That is to say, that machines are funny. Thus > Flann O'Brien's discursions upon the bicycle in _The Third Policeman_ or > Beckett's discursions upon the same in _Molloy_ are funny because machines > are necessarily funny. > > Gabriel Gudding > > On Tue, 23 Apr > 2002, Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > > Should we all descwibe what we think is funny? > > > > H R > > > > "Graham, David" wrote: > > > > > Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, > > > of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. > > > > > > Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. > > > > > > David Graham, ever-patient > > > > > > (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) > > > > > > ======================================== > > > David Graham > > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > > Home Page: > > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > > Poetry Library: > > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > > ======================================== > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > From: Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > > > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > > > > humorous than the other? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Henry_Gould Tue Apr 23 13:51:11 2002 From: Henry_Gould (Henry Gould) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:51:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: References: <3CC591FA.5FAB31E9@localnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020423134010.00aa8100@postoffice.brown.edu> I read somewhere that Euripides' play "Deus ex Machina" represented a transition from tragedy to comedy in Greece, & that the "d ex m" plot was imitated by later playwrights for comic effect (Moliere et al). Ever since Prometheus & the Iron Age technology (machines) have been thought of either as partial relief for grinding toil or as having threatening, demonic, tragic potential (war, the bomb, etc). Perhaps comedy itself IS the deus ex machina - a laugh-track trigger in the DNA - which will help reverse this potential (of technology in general) from tragic to comic. Henry > That is to say, that machines are funny. Thus >Flann O'Brien's discursions upon the bicycle in _The Third Policeman_ or >Beckett's discursions upon the same in _Molloy_ are funny because machines >are necessarily funny. > >Gabriel Gudding From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 14:22:08 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 3. The Repression Theory. Laughter is a relieved expression of dissent > against reason, order, civility, rules and laws. Promulgated by Freud. > Thus we laugh at clowns because they are bucking the system, being > offensive, fucking the man, being unreasonable, and throwing mule dung at > the ring master. Dear guh, I think if I saw a clown fucking anyone, I would die of a major eyebleed. As it is, I'm going to have to scrub my brain with hemp soap to get this image out. Thanks SO much, gee From marcus Tue Apr 23 14:31:32 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:31:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Deeper Meaning of Liff, by Douglas Adams In-Reply-To: References: <3CC54B1D.11878.7F1550@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC57044.28798.120C80@localhost> > Nope. Still not gonna answer this one until I've read at least one of the > books, so's I can see the names in context. There is a hint, however, in > the now-changed subject line. Well, then, you're wrong about WW Webb being funnier as a real person than as a made-up name because I've never met him, and can't judge whether his personality supports such a claim. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 14:27:22 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Deeper Meaning of Liff, by Douglas Adams In-Reply-To: <3CC57044.28798.120C80@localhost> Message-ID: > Well, then, you're wrong about WW Webb being funnier as a real > person than as a made-up name because I've never met him, and > can't judge whether his personality supports such a claim. > DING! Marcus said "claim" again! Everybody has to drink! Gwyn, who got absolutely schnockered playing this game on a different list one week From marcus Tue Apr 23 15:30:52 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:30:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Deeper Meaning of Liff, by Douglas Adams In-Reply-To: References: <3CC57044.28798.120C80@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC57E2C.8012.251202@localhost> > > Well, then, you're wrong about WW Webb being funnier as a real > > person than as a made-up name because I've never met him, and > > can't judge whether his personality supports such a claim. Gwyn: > DING! Marcus said "claim" again! Everybody has to drink! > Gwyn, who got absolutely schnockered playing this game on a different list > one week If you have an opinion, think it out and put it forward. But to gas out an opinion and refuse either to make it clear or expound on it when asked isn't conversation, Gwyn -- it's just blurt. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 23 15:32:16 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:32:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality Message-ID: <82.1aa62e68.29f710c0@cs.com> Who was it said, "If they laugh, it's comedy." Harry Cohn? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gudding Tue Apr 23 15:35:38 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:35:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear gee, Eyebleeds are my specialty. Glad to oblige!guh Then Gwyn said, > Dear guh, > > I think if I saw a clown fucking anyone, I would die of a major eyebleed. > As it is, I'm going to have to scrub my brain with hemp soap to get this > image out. > > Thanks SO much, gee > > 3. The Repression Theory. Laughter is a relieved expression of dissent > > against reason, order, civility, rules and laws. Promulgated by Freud. > > Thus we laugh at clowns because they are bucking the system, being > > offensive, fucking the man, being unreasonable, and throwing mule dung at > > the ring master. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Robtberner Tue Apr 23 15:33:07 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:33:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] art and artifice Message-ID: <163.ca8bcd4.29f710f3@aol.com> in one of his recent screeds, marcus bales writes that art "is artifice in the service of evocation." this may be true of some forms of art. a medieval stained glass window, for example, may well have evoked in the peasant bodo a sense of his duty to god. but a 21st century person viewing the same window may well think only of color, structure, portraiture, the skill of the window-maker, and so on. but the window itself is still a window, a thing , to be valued and admired for itself and not merely for what it represents or evokes. art is art and everything else is everything else. robert berner From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 15:39:53 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Being insanely explicit In-Reply-To: <3CC57E2C.8012.251202@localhost> Message-ID: I make no judgment on the person of Professor W. W. Webb. Having viewed the abstracts of some of his articles as displayed at PubMed, his work does not seem funny one bit. But his name seems funny to me--funnier to me than if it had been an invented name for some internet-teaching software, because, as Gabe points out, it is the humor of incongruity: you don't expect a human being to have a name very similar to that of a concept or consumer product (to me, "World Wide Web" straddles both categories). Kindly refrain from pronouncing judgment on the state of my intestinal gas. Does your spleen need venting? Gwyn From gudding Tue Apr 23 15:45:33 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:45:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] mississippi humanities council grant announcement In-Reply-To: <3CC57E2C.8012.251202@localhost> Message-ID: My colleague, Mairead Byrne, and I have, this semester, been teaching an advanced creative writing course at the Marshall County Correctional Facility in Holly Springs, MS. We were awarded a mini-grant from the Mississippi Humanities Council to fund this course. In keeping with a grant stipulation, I am with this email announcing to all within and without the state of Mississippi that the MHC awarded a mini-grant to Mairead Byrne, the University of Mississippi, and me. Thus this email. Be it known that we have received $1921.15 by the Mississippi Humanities Council in order to teach advanced fiction and poetry to the inmates of the Marshall County Correctional Facility, many of whom are Baptists. Gabriel Gudding From gudding Tue Apr 23 16:30:45 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:30:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020423134010.00aa8100@postoffice.brown.edu> Message-ID: Well that's interesting, Henry, because, as far as I understand it, many comic plots tend toward resolution from chaos. That is, one of the key features of a comic plot is The Happy Ending (a not so distant relative of your deus ex machina). It's seen most often in the old (and the new) hymeneal plays and can be found nowadays in the many romantic comedy movies that happen to end in marriage. The idea of the fix-it ending -- the deus ex machina -- is common to many comedies even today. But I, uhh, think the "machina" you're referring to here is different from the machine that Bergson would be referring to in the phrase "the mechanical encrusted upon the living." He was referring specifically to living beings, us with our girded and hinging pooties, or the robotic-like chihuahua. What's more, a great many comic plots do not resolve themselves harmoniously. I read somewhere, and it strikes me as true, that there are two contrary tendencies in comic plots: one is a movement toward chaos and disorder and the other is toward harmony -- just as there are two sides to laughter: the derision of wit and the warm balm of a friendly chuckle. So I don't think that Bergson was talking about machines, per se, though I hinted at that below. Bergson was talking about the intentional or accidental mixing of the living with the mechanical. Think more of Charlie Chaplin in the cogs as being funny rather than the cogs themselves.guh On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Henry Gould wrote: > I read somewhere that Euripides' play "Deus ex Machina" represented a > transition from tragedy to comedy in Greece, & that the "d ex m" plot was > imitated by later playwrights for comic effect (Moliere et al). > > Ever since Prometheus & the Iron Age technology (machines) have been > thought of either as partial relief for grinding toil or as having > threatening, demonic, tragic potential (war, the bomb, etc). Perhaps > comedy itself IS the deus ex machina - a laugh-track trigger in the DNA - > which will help reverse this potential (of technology in general) from > tragic to comic. > > Henry > > > That is to say, that machines are funny. Thus > >Flann O'Brien's discursions upon the bicycle in _The Third Policeman_ or > >Beckett's discursions upon the same in _Molloy_ are funny because machines > >are necessarily funny. > > > >Gabriel Gudding > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From marcus Tue Apr 23 16:59:50 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:59:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Being insanely explicit In-Reply-To: References: <3CC57E2C.8012.251202@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC59306.30110.7686C3@localhost> > I make no judgment on the person of Professor W. W. Webb.<< But you clearly do -- you say his name is funnier to you because he exists than it would be to you if his name were made up by someone trying to be funny -- or by someone trying not to be funny, too, I imagine. But why do you say so? For my part, it seems to me that it's not funny in the least -- or if it is funny in the least it is "funny peculiar" and not "funny haha". > ... his name seems funny to me--funnier to me > than if it had been an invented name for some internet-teaching software, > because, as Gabe points out, it is the humor of incongruity: you don't > expect a human being to have a name very similar to that of a concept or > consumer product (to me, "World Wide Web" straddles both categories).< It would be funny if his first names were "World" and "Wide" but probably they are something like "William" or "Walter" or the like. Why wouldn't you expect to find someone named WW Webb? A google search reveals this about a WW Webb different from the one you refer to: "... Until he died [WW] Webb was an astrologer and artist. Together with his wife Mary-Ann, Fisher and Shreves, he founded the 'Philosophic Gnostic Hermetic Society' (PGHS), at Joshua Tree in 1963; it was a kind of Californian XI? offshoot of the Choronzon Club..." So there are at least two WW Webbs -- one a dead crank and the other a live scientist. No doubt there are others if one cared to look. I don't see why you find it unexpected and therefore funny that there would be people with names such as WW Webb -- which is straightforwardly unfunny and not made funny in any way I can see by there being a World Wide Web. It's just not the same kind of thing as Barb Dwyer http://www.hotkey.net.au/~beelzebarb/ Candy Barr http://www.candybarrartist.com/ Harry Caray http://www.powermaxconsulting.com/harrycaray.htm Ima Hogg http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/HH/fho16.html each of which (and there are many more) have a certain (sometimes appalling -- what were the parents of Ima Hogg *thinking*!?) humorousness. But are such names funnier when they are real than when they are made up: Xavier Onassis, for example? Or the closing credits from "Car Talk": http://cartalk.cars.com/About/credits.html ? What makes, in your opinion, real names funnier than made-up ones? > Kindly refrain from pronouncing judgment on the state of my intestinal > gas. Does your spleen need venting? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 17:12:45 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Being insanely explicit In-Reply-To: <3CC59306.30110.7686C3@localhost> Message-ID: Dear Marcus, I am going to answer you mainly because the other list you and I are on is stuttering like a goddamn fricking CD player on skip, and I can't take it anymore. I find it *funny, in a Schadenfreude kind of way,* to contemplate, as I said, how many times Professor WWW has heard jokes made to him OR HER (it could as easily be Wilfreda Wilhelmina) about having been created by Al Gore. I do not find the made-up names at the end of Car Talk (or Prairie Home Companion) nearly as funny as Tom and Ray Magliozzi seem to find themselves. It would be funnier to me if some unthinking and/or innocent mother had named her real son Xavier Onassis, and he were revealed to be the true author of that very popular _Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook._ I like it when the silly names of real people are matched to their actual professions. Thus, it is slightly funny that I was once treated by a Dr. Organ, but it would have been funnier had he been an internist rather than an orthopedist. I do go to a clinic where I refuse to see a Dr. Payne, and I derive comfort in living just five minutes' drive from the office of a dentist named Dr. Capps. I cannot say which of the categories enumerated by Gabriel properly contains these names. I do know that the element of ribaldry makes it funnier yet to me that, in the same town as Dr. Capps, there practices a gynecologist named Dr. Harry Beaver. The fact that the "real" name of the title character on the Pepsi-sponsored radio program "Counterspy" was Harry Peters is somewhat less funny to me, because the character is a counterspy, not a urologist, and in any case the name is made up: it is funny-horrible like Prof. WWW, but, in this case, could easily have been avoided. WWW's mother could not have predicted technological advances, and so the chance element creates the unexpected juxtaposition of having Dr. WWW available on the WWW. But this is like trying to dissect a pig in vivo: the scalpel keeps slipping. I know that I don't laugh at "A-Plumbing We Will Go" (The Three Stooges, 1932) because I honestly find it humorous when plumbing accidents happen to trios of short Jewish men, two of whom happen to be brothers. I know that the various comedy routines put together by Cheech Marin and Tommy Chong are markedly less funny when one is not currently under the influence of marijuana, but are still funnier if one has smoked some at some time in one's life than if one has never smoked any at all. So humor, and degrees thereof, are SUBJECTIVE? MMKAY? Gwyn, making a funny face From Serbpoet Tue Apr 23 21:14:59 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:14:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha Message-ID: <190.5eceaff.29f76113@aol.com> What is mechanical of Gudding is to describe prison poetry of his voluntary goodness. He is good. He is saint and paertner is co-saint. He is not careeristist. But he has carree all the time on his front of the brain. No-career is his career. No-ambition his ambition. Not naturallyfunny, boring, so this person always talks clowny. Poetry for holy of holiers. All the time ginsberg perversity of auto self masturbation is canon. If boring me is good poetry. Pointing to obvious, uhh, guh, good postings. From jvcervantes Tue Apr 23 21:20:31 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:20:31 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha References: <190.5eceaff.29f76113@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CC60860.E801F06C@earthlink.net> I don't mean to be crass or insensitive, but just how many "Billies" are there? - Jimski Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > > What is mechanical of Gudding is to describe prison poetry of his voluntary > goodness. He is good. He is saint and paertner is co-saint. He is not > careeristist. But he has carree all the time on his front of the brain. > No-career is his career. No-ambition his ambition. Not naturallyfunny, > boring, so this person always talks clowny. Poetry for holy of holiers. All > the time ginsberg perversity of auto self masturbation is canon. If boring > me is good poetry. Pointing to obvious, uhh, guh, good postings. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 22:39:23 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:39:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha References: <190.5eceaff.29f76113@aol.com> <3CC60860.E801F06C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CC61AD1.220518F5@patriot.net> >>> I don't mean to be crass or insensitive, but just how many "Billies" are there? - Jimski<<< Yeah, and how many that study Zen? "No-career is his career," my impermanent ass. McVay Roshi From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 23 22:47:40 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:47:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha Message-ID: <43.a6c6093.29f776cc@cs.com> In a message dated 4/23/2002 9:38:19 PM Central Daylight Time, gmcvay at patriot.net writes: > >>> I don't mean to be crass or insensitive, but just how many "Billies" are > there? > > - Jimski<<< > > Yeah, and how many that study Zen? "No-career is his career," my > impermanent ass. > > McVay Roshi > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Thank you, Gwyn the Woman. Gwynn, The Man -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gudding Tue Apr 23 23:43:58 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:43:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha In-Reply-To: <190.5eceaff.29f76113@aol.com> Message-ID: Dude. You need some serious spellczech.guh On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > What is mechanical of Gudding is to describe prison poetry of his voluntary > goodness. He is good. He is saint and paertner is co-saint. He is not > careeristist. But he has carree all the time on his front of the brain. > No-career is his career. No-ambition his ambition. Not naturallyfunny, > boring, so this person always talks clowny. Poetry for holy of holiers. All > the time ginsberg perversity of auto self masturbation is canon. If boring > me is good poetry. Pointing to obvious, uhh, guh, good postings. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Janet.Kieffer Wed Apr 24 01:18:30 2002 From: Janet.Kieffer (Janet Kieffer) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:18:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha Message-ID: Oh shit, I missed you not-on-purpose Viktor-------? Send mail! -----Original Message----- From: Serbpoet at aol.com [mailto:Serbpoet at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:15 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha What is mechanical of Gudding is to describe prison poetry of his voluntary goodness. He is good. He is saint and paertner is co-saint. He is not careeristist. But he has carree all the time on his front of the brain. No-career is his career. No-ambition his ambition. Not naturallyfunny, boring, so this person always talks clowny. Poetry for holy of holiers. All the time ginsberg perversity of auto self masturbation is canon. If boring me is good poetry. Pointing to obvious, uhh, guh, good postings. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames Wed Apr 24 15:31:03 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:31:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 2002 BOSTON POETRY MARATHON Message-ID: <38.26e41399.29f861f7@aol.com> 2002 BOSTON POETRY MARATHON Thursday, June 6 - Sunday, June 9 at the Art Institute of Boston 700 Beacon Street in Kenmore Square Readers will include: Jim Behrle Charles Bernstein Janet Bowdan Norma Cole James Cook Del Ray Cross Christopher Davis Donna de la Perriere Stephen Ellis Ethan Fugate Joanna Fuhrman Forrest Gander Aaron Kiely Susan Landers Joseph Lease Bill Luoma Tracey McTague Sharon Mesmer Gina Myers Jena Osman Maureen Owen Wanda Phipps Bin Ramke David Rivard Juliana Spahr and many others Admission is free. For more info: bostonpoetry at thevortex.com From JforJames Wed Apr 24 15:40:40 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:40:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] For The Sake Of A Single Poem Message-ID: <62.1ea984dd.29f86438@aol.com> [FOR THE SAKE OF A SINGLE POEM] ...Ah, poems amount to so little when you write them too early in your life. You ought to wait and gather sense and sweetness for a whole lifetime, and a long one if possible, and then, at the very end, you might perhaps be able to write ten good lines. For poems are not, as people think, simply emotions (one has emotions early enough)--they are experiences. For the sake of a single poem, you must see many cities, many people and Things, you must understand animals, must feel how birds fly, and know the gesture which small flowers make when they open in the morning. You must be able to think back to streets in unknown neighborhoods, to unexpected encounters, and to partings you had long seen coming; to days of childhood whose mystery is still unexplained, to parents whom you had to hurt when they brought in a joy and you didn't pick it up (it was a joy meant for someone else--); to childhood illnesses that began so strangely with so many profound and difficult transformations, to days in quiet, restrained rooms and to mornings by the sea, to the sea itself, to seas, to nights of travel that rushed along high overhead and went flying with all the stars,--and it is still not enough to be able to think of all that. You must have memories of many nights of love, each one different from all the others, memories of women screaming in labor, and of light, pale, sleeping girls who have just given birth and are closing again. But you must also have been beside the dying, must have sat beside the bedside of the dead in the room with the open window and the scattered noises. And it is not yet enough to have memories. You must be able to forget them when they are many, and you must have the immense patience to wait until they return. For the memories themselves are not important. Only when they have changed into our very blood, into glance and gesture, and are nameless, no longer to be distinguished from ourselves--only then can it happen that in some very rare hour the first word of a poem arises in their midst and goes forth from them. from THE SELECTED POETRY OF RAINER MARIA RILKE translated by Stephen Mitchell Copyright (c) 1980, 1981, 1982 by Stephen Mitchell Archaic Torso of Apollo From JforJames Wed Apr 24 20:09:11 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:09:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 Sharon Olds poems Message-ID: Sharon Olds +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Outdoor Shower Crusted with dried brack, dusted with sand, shaking from the cold Atlantic, hair gristled with crystals, tangled with the jellied palps of wrack -- just step on this slatted rack, pull the iron handle of the forged world toward you. The sluice courses, down your shin, in a swirling motion, milk smoke, the silky rush of fresh water, supple and alkaline. Lids clenched, you reach for the small oil torso of soap, run it along your limbs and whirl it over the points of the three-point shower star of sex: arm-put, arm-pit, sex. Then the gritty dial of your face, lather it, bring it under the coursing, and open your mouth, stone-sweet well-water, and then the head, delve it in so the sand around the scalp dances like the ions at the edges of matter, and the shampoo, mild soldier, take her by the shoulders and pour the pale eel on your head. Then feel them going: salp, chitin, diatom, dulse, the blind ones of the ocean. Rinse until it pours down your head like water, the dark descendant pelf of the land. Now open your eyes -- green lawn, silver pond, grey dune, blue Atlantic, the simple fields of God, liquid and solid. Turn and turn in hot water, column of heat in the cool wind and sunny air, squeeze your eyes and then open them again -- look, it is still there, the world as in heaven, your body at the edge of it. My Mother's Pansies And all that time, in back of the house, there were pansies growing, some silt blue, some silt yellow, most of them sable red or purplish sable, heavy as velvet curtains, so soft they seemed wet but they were dry as powder on a luna's wing, dust on an alluvial path, in a drought summer. And they were open like lips, and pouted like lips, and had a tiny fur-gold v, which made bees not be able to not want. And so, although women, in our lobes and sepals, our corollas and spurs, seemed despised spathe, style-arm, standard, crest, and fall, still there were those plush entries, night mouth, pillow mouth, anyone might want to push their pinky, or anything, into such velveteen chambers, such throats, each midnight-velvet petal saying touch-touch-touch, please-touch, please-touch, each sex like a spirit -- shy, flushed, praying. from BLOOD, TIN, STRAW Copyright (c) 1999 by Sharon Olds ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More Sharon Olds: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/olds/poem.html From grahamd Wed Apr 24 22:44:57 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:44:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Etheridge Knight Message-ID: <200204250243.g3P2hAu89619@mx8.mx.voyager.net> Query: is anyone aware of a recording of Etheridge Knight reading his poem "Ilu, The Talking Drum"? I have a very good Watershed tape of Knight, but that particular poem's omitted. Any other leads on Knight recordings, actually, would be welcome. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From halvard Thu Apr 25 00:23:11 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:23:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Kenneth Koch, "Desire for Spring" Message-ID: Desire for Spring Calcium days, days when we feed our bones! Iron days, which enrich our blood! Saltwater days, which give us valuable iodine! When will there be a perfectly ordinary spring day? For my heart needs to be fed, not my urine Or my brain, and I wish to leap to Pittsburgh From gudding Thu Apr 25 13:08:38 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:08:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: <82.1aa62e68.29f710c0@cs.com> Message-ID: I do not know who said that. On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > Who was it said, "If they laugh, it's comedy." Harry Cohn? > From snospx Fri Apr 26 12:46:54 2002 From: snospx (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:46:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #774 - 1 msg In-Reply-To: <200204261601.g3QG14Q28459@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020426094654.007e9300@snowcrest.net> >Rsgwynn queries: > >> Who was it said, "If they laugh, it's comedy." Harry Cohn? --------- >Gabriel M. Gudding replies >> I do not know who said that. --------- "very funny" -- Harry Cohn From ulin+ Thu Apr 25 15:36:14 2002 From: ulin+ (Don Ulin) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:36:14 -1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: NATIONAL POETRY MONTH References: <3CC80080.49CA575B@localnet.com> Message-ID: <3CC85AAE.60416212@pitt.edu> a bit clunky, but not bad for a politician! -- Don Helen Ruggieri wrote: > Today's poem is by Kenneth Koch. > > Desire for Spring > > Calcium days, days when we feed our bones! > Iron days, which enrich our blood! > Saltwater days, which give us valuable iodine! > When will there be a perfectly ordinary spring day? > For my heart needs to be fed, not my urine > Or my brain, and I wish to leap to Pittsburgh > >From Tuskegee, Indiana, if necessary, spreading like a flower > In the spring light, and growing like a silver stair. > Nothing else will satisfy me, not even death! > Not even broken life insurance policies, cancer, loss of health, > Ruined furniture, prostate disease, headaches, melancholia, > No, not even a ravaging wolf eating up my flesh! > I want spring, I want to turn like a mobile > In a new fresh air! I don't want to hibernate > Between walls, between halls! I want to bear > My share of the anguish of being succinctly here! > Not even moths in the spell of the flame > Can want it to be warmer so much as I do! > Not even the pilot slipping into the great green sea > In flames can want less to be turned into an icicle! > Though admiring the icicle's cunning, how shall I be satisfied > With artificial daisies and roses, and wax pears? > O breeze, my lovely, come in, that I mayn't be stultified! > Dear coolness of heaven, come swiftly and sit in my chairs! > > --Kenneth Koch, *Thank You and Other Poems*, 1962 > > _______________________________________________ From roger Fri Apr 26 03:27:42 2002 From: roger (Roger Greenwald) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:27:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] new book & readings from it Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.20020426032742.2e5f596a@pop.chass.utoronto.ca> Dear Friends and Colleagues, Apologies to anyone who receives this twice; I've done all I could to eliminate duplication. I'm pleased to announce the publication of NORTH IN THE WORLD: SELECTED POEMS OF ROLF JACOBSEN A Bilingual Edition translated, edited, and introduced by Roger Greenwald University of Chicago Press, 2002 356 pages. ISBN 0-226-39035-7. Cloth only: US $35; ? 22.50 121 poems by Rolf Jacobsen, drawn from all twelve of his books, in English, with carefully edited Norwegian texts on facing pages; introduction; extensive endnotes; index to titles in both languages; index to first lines in both languages; three photos of Rolf Jacobsen (plus a fourth on the jacket). A detailed description of the book, advance comments, the complete table of contents, and a link to information about ordering are available at http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~roger/niw.html You can read the English versions of three poems at http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/390357.html I will be giving three readings from this book during the month of May. I hope you can attend one of them if you live in or near one of the three cities (see below); please feel free to forward this information to anyone you know in those cities who may be interested. READINGS Monday, May 6th, 7:30 pm. Cambridge, Massachusetts Cambridge Public Library, 449 Broadway. Friday, May 10th, 7:30 pm. Washington, DC Chapters Literary Bookstore, 1512 K Street NW. Monday, May 27th, 8:00 pm. Toronto, Ontario, Canada Bennett Lecture Hall (Room 1039), Flavelle House Faculty of Law, University of Toronto (78 Queen's Park, just south of the planetarium) Thanks, Roger Greenwald From FanwoodJEL Fri Apr 26 16:46:37 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:46:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Tupelo Press Village Reading Series, Chapter 2 Message-ID: Join Us Sunday, May 5th (7:30 pm) for the second installment in the TUPELO PRESS VILLAGE READING SERIES at Pangea Readers: David Lehman, Monica Ferrell, and Jennifer Michael Hecht, winner of the PSA Norma Farber First Book Award. Dinner after. Hot and cold running spirits, whispering muses. More fortunes told. Solid one-liners. Fancy bookmarks. Pangea Bar & Restaurant ~ 178 Second Avenue, btwn 12th & 11th Streets ~ 212-995-0900 Jeffrey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adead_poet Sat Apr 27 04:28:01 2002 From: adead_poet (jason huff) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 03:28:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: it's been some time since i've received anything from the new poetry list. is it just me or has it been that quiet out there? jason _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From halvard Sat Apr 27 07:52:09 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:52:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's just you, Jason. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { it's been some time since i've received anything from the new poetry list. { is it just me or has it been that quiet out there? { { jason From halvard Sat Apr 27 08:04:38 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 08:04:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: John Ashbery, "Paradoxes and Oxymorons" Message-ID: Paradoxes and Oxymorons This poem is concerned with language on a very plain level. Look at it talking to you. You look out a window Or pretend to fidget. You have it but you don't have it. You miss it, it misses you. You miss each other. The poem is sad because it wants to be yours, and cannot. What's a plain level? It is that and other things, Bringing a system of them into play. Play? Well, actually, yes, but I consider play to be A deeper outside thing, a dream role-pattern, As in the division of grace these long August days Without proof. Open-ended. And before you know It gets lost in the steam and chatter of typewriters. It has been played once more. I think you exist only To tease me into doing it, on your level, and then you aren't there Or have adopted a different attitude. And the poem Has set me softly down beside you. The poem is you. --John Ashbery, *Shadow Train*, 1981 Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From aburack Sat Apr 27 08:48:30 2002 From: aburack (Alexandra Burack) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 08:48:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] new book & readings from it References: <3.0.3.16.20020426032742.2e5f596a@pop.chass.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <002101c1ede9$d5e063a0$8f0653c6@bzln101> Thanks to Roger Greenwald for the opportunity to read Rolf Jacobsen's stunning poems in English. Alexandra Burack Sarah Lawrence College ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Greenwald" To: Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:27 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] new book & readings from it > > > I'm pleased to announce the publication of > > NORTH IN THE WORLD: SELECTED POEMS OF ROLF JACOBSEN > A Bilingual Edition > translated, edited, and introduced by Roger Greenwald > > University of Chicago Press, 2002 > 356 pages. ISBN 0-226-39035-7. > Cloth only: US $35; ? 22.50 > > 121 poems by Rolf Jacobsen, drawn from all twelve of > his books, in English, with carefully edited Norwegian > texts on facing pages; introduction; extensive endnotes; > index to titles in both languages; index to first lines in > both languages; three photos of Rolf Jacobsen (plus a fourth > on the jacket). > > A detailed description of the book, advance comments, > the complete table of contents, and a link to > information about ordering are available at > > http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~roger/niw.html > > You can read the English versions of three poems at > > http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/390357.html > > From Robtberner Sat Apr 27 09:53:18 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:53:18 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] new book & readings from it Message-ID: <1a4.169f374.29fc074e@aol.com> My thanks too to Roger Greenwald for posting the U of Chicago website with its three poems from histranslations of Rolf Jacobsen. But...the book is currently available only in cloth, at $35. That prices-out way too many people, especially students. Is a paperback edition--at a considerably lower price, I hope--due out eventually? Robert Berner From Robtberner Sat Apr 27 17:32:28 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 17:32:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] re.: poets you don't know about yet Message-ID: Just home from the sat. session of the Windham Area Poetry Festival, in Windham, Conn., sponsored by Curbstone Press, the Windham public schools, and the town of Windham.Featured readers included Marilyn Nelson, Gabrielle Zane, Naomi Ayala, George Evans, Steve Straight et al. But the kicker was the kids, damn near fifty of them, aged from 8 to 17, and they were cookin'. So look to your laurels, brothers and sisters. These kids are comin' on and they're gonna kick some butt. Robert Berner From Serbpoet Sat Apr 27 21:24:16 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 21:24:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poets you don't know about yet. Message-ID: "But the kicker was the kids, damn near fifty of them, aged from 8 to 17, and they were cookin'." I had attended this poetry celeb incogno. Such children as have performed are Ginsberg/Brittany Spears self masturbation actors. Lefty Eyeblink Lopes were their dead American goddess. Purity is only a syllable. And yet eack post to this newpoetry seems to cfontain secret message upom me. I praise the god that he has lead me to you. Now at last one's life can begin. All the waiting and loneliness and praying had had riped my fruit. Jesus is not unpoetry. I close my eyes anb praise god outloud that he has sent me toward you. Anna From gmcvay Sat Apr 27 22:19:22 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 22:19:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poets you don't know about yet. References: Message-ID: <3CCB5C28.FEFB88C0@patriot.net> >>>Jesus is not unpoetry.<<< Christ (as it were), now we're into Nagarjuna's Fourfold Negation. But is 7-Up still the Uncola? Did you know that God kills a kitten every time someone writes a self masturbation poem? From Robtberner Sun Apr 28 05:54:53 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:54:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] You Had To Be There Message-ID: <15e.ce8e784.29fd20ed@aol.com> It's almost hard to believe that "Serbpoet" and I were present at the same event. She saw "Ginsberg/Brittany [sic] Spears self masturbation actors." I saw nothing of the sort. There were no hooker-costumed Lolitas, no priapic narcissists. What I saw were many young novice poets, most of them fighting hard to overcome their stage-fright, all of them reading poems that represent their first serious efforts at loking at the world and at their position in it. This was not mere MTV titillation. As to the mystical rubbish about secret messages, etc.,if Serbpoet wants to be a bride of Christ, I would say,"Fine. Get thee to a nunnery. There you may recite to your heart's content the ejaculations of Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross. In the meantime, the least you can do is learn to count: purity has three syllables." Robert Berner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvcervantes Sun Apr 28 08:53:26 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:53:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Clayton Eshleman Message-ID: <3CCBF0C6.24DA6CFE@earthlink.net> Grand Cascade Out of the mother urn the now ending evers churn, they rhyme only because I am free here in fatal Gladys light. Let my kneeling radiate my aging elfin sails. Inbunched, outerflowered, I am the hiss in this, the ripple wild knoll in which my umbilicus sucks stones. Paradise is part of my inherited billabong, its stagnation, its warpings, are not my own. Dionysus, let me not reduce or simplify, allow me the wavering marginality of imagination, let my fits and bits and catatripe be venomous to the fake. The body is a ruthless tribal compression. Dreaming is less free than imagining, for the dream factory has a quota: certain roles are paid less, someone has always forgotten to oil the compost crank, the elf who runs the umbilical bandsaw is always AWOL. Every perception enters an imaginal file, buds in arrest until swayed by a life-shifting rain or the blight of the news of an unknown person's death. For psyche, all bets are on nothing. A fist slammed against the door reappears as an eel in mourning. A turtle who has just taken the veil becomes the wind-filled sail of a wooden tub in whose sudsy water one discovers one's genitals, eggs to be fried on Caravaggio's canvas. The vague is as crucial as the definitive, the wave a part of the pier. Whose genie does not accordian into Fudd and Marilyn, then rebottle into Lautrec's cognac- vialed cane? Clouds are brains, chryselephantine scrolls, or so the mind registers its Matterhorns half-waking out of dream, when snow and sneezing are as relevant as the cut rose you place in my hand every time you speak. - Clayton Eshleman Boston Review, April/May 2002 James Cervantes: Salt River Review: Poetserv: Homepage: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reading itinerary: From jvcervantes Sun Apr 28 08:58:12 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:58:12 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poets you don't know about yet. References: <3CCB5C28.FEFB88C0@patriot.net> Message-ID: <3CCBF1E4.97068AA9@earthlink.net> Gwyn McVay wrote: > > >>>Jesus is not unpoetry.<<< > > Christ (as it were), now we're into Nagarjuna's Fourfold Negation. But > is 7-Up still the Uncola? > > Did you know that God kills a kitten every time someone writes a self > masturbation poem? Not to mention that purity *is* one syllable if one reads the phrase as a reduction in importance and does not read it literally. - Jim James Cervantes: Salt River Review: Poetserv: Homepage: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reading itinerary: From daisyf1 Sun Apr 28 12:20:38 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:20:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy police Message-ID: <20020428.122039.-183731.4.daisyf1@juno.com> "Such children as have performed are Ginsberg/Brittany Spears self masturbation actors." "Did you know that God kills a kitten every time someone writes a self masturbation poem?" Can one, by definition, masturbate anyone besides oneself? Signed, Inquiring Mind Needs to Know P.S. Can it be that Ginsberg has come back as Britney Spears? I thought that belly button looked familiar. From Robtberner Sun Apr 28 13:38:57 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:38:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy police Message-ID: <176.7623cf0.29fd8db1@aol.com> you never heard of a circle -jerk? From gmcvay Sun Apr 28 14:46:52 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy police In-Reply-To: <20020428.122039.-183731.4.daisyf1@juno.com> Message-ID: Daisy, I was going to say something about "self masturbation" too, but then I realized it is perfectly possible to masturbate another person--Webster's says "especially" of oneself, but just defines it as sexual stimulation exclusive of intercourse. So if you provide your friend with a helping hand, as it were, that is other-than-self masturbation. Gwyn, who urges everyone with sufficient bandwidth and software to hop on over to www.ifilm.com and view "The Dildo Song" From Serbpoet Sun Apr 28 20:29:42 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:29:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy policy Message-ID: <157.d153ae0.29fdedf6@aol.com> Gwyn, I read every syllables of you're posts and actually heard them in my head spoke straight to myself. What were you trying to do to me I kept thinking. Hurt me? insult me? Test me? I hated you for it but i never forgot to remember BILLIE. Believe In the Lord and Life In Eternity. Otherwise I did not understand this repition. You need my helpto free you from your cage of auto masturbating mindset. Wakeup to it! I worry for you Gwyn. you think you have everythings, you think you can meet all your desires on yourself. if only you understood fully what i am offering to yourself. my love for every one is PURE AND FIERCE. I"ll never desert everyone; accept me and you you'll find yourself acceptinf poetry without a thought. Anna From Rsgwynn1 Sun Apr 28 20:51:26 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:51:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/27/2002 3:29:07 AM Central Daylight Time, adead_poet at hotmail.com writes: > > it's been some time since i've received anything from the new poetry list. > is it just me or has it been that quiet out there? > > jason Maybe you need to resubscribe. I can't imagine why you haven't been getting messages. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Sun Apr 28 20:55:11 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:55:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poets you don't know about yet. Message-ID: <24.249ab13a.29fdf3ef@cs.com> In a message dated 4/27/2002 8:25:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Serbpoet at aol.com writes: > > I had attended this poetry celeb incogno. Such children as have performed > are Ginsberg/Brittany Spears self masturbation actors. Lefty Eyeblink > Lopes > were their dead American goddess. Purity is only a syllable. And yet eack > post to this newpoetry seems to cfontain secret message upom me. I praise > the god that he has lead me to you. Now at last one's life can begin. All > > the waiting and loneliness and praying had had riped my fruit. Jesus is > not > unpoetry. I close my eyes anb praise god outloud that he has sent me > toward > you. > > Anna > __________ You're a good man, Anna. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvcervantes Sun Apr 28 21:15:54 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:15:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy policy References: <157.d153ae0.29fdedf6@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCC9ECB.C31754C8@earthlink.net> Dear Anna of a Thousand Days: Bless you, bless you! Save Billie! Save Billie! And all of us who are right or left-handedly pleasuring ourselves in a Buick. - repentedly yours, Jim Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > > Gwyn, I read every syllables of you're posts and actually heard them in my > head spoke straight to myself. What were you trying to do to me I kept > thinking. Hurt me? insult me? Test me? I hated you for it but i never > forgot to remember BILLIE. Believe In the Lord and Life In Eternity. > Otherwise I did not understand this repition. You need my helpto free you > from your cage of auto masturbating mindset. Wakeup to it! I worry for you > Gwyn. you think you have everythings, you think you can meet all your > desires on yourself. if only you understood fully what i am offering to > yourself. my love for every one is PURE AND FIERCE. I"ll never desert > everyone; accept me and you you'll find yourself acceptinf poetry without a > thought. > > Anna > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Serbpoet Sun Apr 28 21:32:56 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:32:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy policy Message-ID: <187.7370c28.29fdfcc8@aol.com> gwyn, i know you won't hear me--yet. you're mind is closed your defenses are in the place. it suits you and protects yourself to humiliate myself. help!!!! there's a woman offering me love and the love of the god. BILLIE BILLIE BILLIE. what is i have to do to makes you begin to hear me? only prayer can answer this questions. there's one last things i haveto say to you. i have exploded into you're life as you into mine. it's the steep rocky path. love for always. Anna From daisyf1 Mon Apr 29 10:27:14 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:27:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] circles and selves and jerks Message-ID: <20020429.102715.-283173.3.daisyf1@juno.com> Well, dang it all, you learn something new every day. And wasn't there, come to think of it, (responding to previous post) a punk band in the 80s called the Circle Jerks? Signed, Inquiring Mind Appreciative of the Helping Hand >Daisy, >I was going to say something about "self masturbation" too, but then I >realized it is perfectly possible to masturbate another person--Webster's >says "especially" of oneself, but just defines it as sexual stimulation >exclusive of intercourse. So if you provide your friend with a helping >hand, as it were, that is other-than-self masturbation. >Gwyn, who urges everyone with sufficient bandwidth and software to hop on >over to www.ifilm.com and view "The Dildo Song" From gmcvay Mon Apr 29 10:41:02 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy policy In-Reply-To: <157.d153ae0.29fdedf6@aol.com> Message-ID: My very dear Anna-Billie, "Poetry without a thought" is precisely the problem, it seems. I remain, sir/madam, your humble and obedient servant, Gwyn --- "We share half our genome with the banana. This is more evident in some of my acquaintances than others." Sir Robert May, President of the Royal Society of London From Robtberner Mon Apr 29 17:18:23 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:18:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out Message-ID: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> earlier today i sent the following message to ten members of this network at their personal e-mail addresses: are you serbpoet/anna/billie? if so, reply to this message with the single word yes and i will take your secret to my grave. as of this writing, three affirmative replies have come in. will the real serbpoet/anna/billie please stand up? robert berner From gmcvay Mon Apr 29 17:23:35 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out In-Reply-To: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> Message-ID: *sob* I confess. I myself am Billie, and have been entreating myself to be nicer to myself on the list. I will stop this self-masturbation at once. "Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself..." Gwyn --- "We share half our genome with the banana. This is more evident in some of my acquaintances than others." Sir Robert May, President of the Royal Society of London From Arielpf123 Mon Apr 29 17:26:28 2002 From: Arielpf123 (Arielpf123 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:26:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out Message-ID: In a message dated 4/29/02 5:19:51 PM, Robtberner at aol.com writes: << as of this writing, three affirmative replies have come in. will the real serbpoet/anna/billie please stand up? robert berner >> it's none of them; its me. From GrahamD Mon Apr 29 17:29:34 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:29:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: smokin' him/her out Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E1C@mail.ripon.edu> you're crultie is contine, i see. no matter. i ame who i. and dont mind whose kn ows that. And not even get mention, what a joke myself think better of you all. thank you fore the pain, anyway and always love hear. DG (aka. . . ) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Robtberner at aol.com > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:18 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out > > earlier today i sent the following message to ten members of this > network at their personal e-mail addresses: > > are you serbpoet/anna/billie? if so, reply to this message with > the > single word yes and i will take your secret to my grave. > > as of this writing, three affirmative replies have come in. > will the real serbpoet/anna/billie please stand up? > > robert berner > From jvcervantes Mon Apr 29 17:43:02 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:43:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out References: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCDBE65.21923D9E@earthlink.net> David is of the sane woods as sinner Gwyn and will tell his poet lies furever and put on my clothes befor you all. theres onely one me and probably the same for billie. dear sweet billie who I don't know must be crushed to loudness to her her name lik this. hav fun my light still shines on you. I will not cast the stone. thank you Robtberner for asking. - standing Robtberner at aol.com wrote: > > earlier today i sent the following message to ten members of this > network at their personal e-mail addresses: > > are you serbpoet/anna/billie? if so, reply to this message with the > single word yes and i will take your secret to my grave. > > as of this writing, three affirmative replies have come in. > will the real serbpoet/anna/billie please stand up? > > robert berner > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Arielpf123 Mon Apr 29 18:37:39 2002 From: Arielpf123 (Arielpf123 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:37:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out Message-ID: nobudy be off the sane woods as sinner Gynn who knows no up to good when she sees it.. not you neither Cervantes and graham you better begone fore long engitout fore I raise up yer papa with a big stick. nobudy better say they's me no more, From gudding Mon Apr 29 18:44:37 2002 From: gudding (Gudding) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:44:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] what I am reading In-Reply-To: <187.7370c28.29fdfcc8@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020429162656.01fc9420@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> I am reading or have recently read the following items: _Volcanoes_, Alwyn Scarth. This is a refreshing look at the science of volcanoes. Many nice pictures and diagrams. My favorite sentence from this book is "Volcanoes are exciting." This is writing at its best: clear, succinct, and to the point. Very good book about volcanoes. _At Swim-Two Birds_, Flann O'Brien. I have read this book several times. It is my favorite book. _The Third Policeman_, Flann O'Brien. Of those books that I have read only once, this is my favorite book of that class. _Present Past/Past Present: A Personal Memoir_, Eug?ne Ionseco. Translated by Helen R. Lane. A very sad book. _The Modern Ark: The Stories of Zoos, Past, Present, & Future_, Vicki Croke. I have learned from this book that some captive chimpanzees eat their shit. _The Perfect Storm_, Sebastian Unger. This nonfiction book is an account of the Halloween Gale that harmed several fishermen from Gloucester, MA. Of those nonfiction books about the sea that I have read only once, it ranks highly. It is on the level of Willard Bascomb's _Waves and Beaches: The Dynamics of the Ocean Surface_. or Raoul Graumont's _Handbook of Knots_. From alphavil Mon Apr 29 19:11:14 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:11:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out References: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCDD311.537FE6C4@ix.netcom.com> Multiple Personality Disorder (Dissociative Identity Disorder) by Paul R. McHugh Paul McHugh, MD, is Henry Phipps Professor of Psychiatry and Director of the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science at the Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions in Baltimore. Prompted by the unexpected flourishing of this extraordinary diagnosis, students often ask me whether multiple personality disorder (MPD) really exists. I usually reply that the symptoms attributed to it are as genuine as hysterical paralysis and seizures and teach us lessons already learned by psychiatrists more than a hundred years ago. Consider the dramatic events that occurred at the Salpetriere Hospital in Paris in the 1880s. For a time the chief physician, Jean-Martin Charcot, thought he had discovered a new disease he called "hystero-epilepsy," a disorder of mind and brain combining features of hysteria and epilepsy. The patients displayed a variety of symptoms, including convulsions, contortions, fainting, and transient impairment of consciousness. Charcot, the acknowledged master of Parisian neurologists, demonstrated the condition by presenting patients to his staff during teaching rounds in the hospital auditorium. A skeptical student, Joseph Babinski, decided that Charcot had invented rather than discovered hystero-epilepsy. The patients had come to the hospital with vague complaints of distress and demoralization. Charcot had persuaded them that they were victims of hystero-epilepsy and should join the others under his care. Charcot's interest in their problems, the encouragement of attendants, and the example of others on the same ward prompted patients to accept Charcot's view of them and eventually to display the expected symptoms. These symptoms resembled epilepsy, Babinski believed, because of a municipal decision to house epileptic and hysterical patients together (both having "episodic" conditions). The hysterical patients, already vulnerable to suggestion and persuasion, were continually subjected to life on the ward and to Charcot's neuropsychiatric examinations. They began to imitate the epileptic attacks they repeatedly witnessed. Babinski eventually won the argument. In fact, he persuaded Charcot that doctors can induce a variety of physical and mental disorders, especially in young, inexperienced, emotionally troubled women. There was no "hystero-epilepsy." These patients were afflicted not by a disease but by an idea. With this understanding, Charcot and Babinski devised a two-stage treatment consisting of isolation and counter suggestion. First, "hystero-epileptic" patients were transferred to the general wards of the hospital and kept apart from one another. Thus they were separated from everyone else who was behaving in the same way and also from staff members who had been induced by sympathy or investigatory zeal to show great interest in the symptoms. The success of this first step was remarkable. Babinski and Charcot were reminded of the rare but impressive epidemic of fainting, convulsions, and wild screaming in convents and boarding schools that ended when the group of afflicted persons was broken up and scattered. The second step, countersuggestion, was designed to give the patients a view of themselves that would persuade them to abandon their symptoms. Dramatic countersuggestions, such as electrical stimulation of "paralyzed" muscles, proved to be unreliable. The most effective technique was simply ignoring the hysterical behavior and concentrating on the present circumstances of these patients. They were suffering from many forms of stress, including sexual feelings and traumas, economic fears, religious conflicts, and a conviction (perhaps correct) that they were being exploited or neglected by their families. In some cases their distress had been provoked by a mental or physical illness. The hysterical symptoms obscured the underlying emotional conflicts and traumas. How trivial a sexual fear seemed to a patient in whom convulsive attacks produced paralysis and temporary blindness every day! Staff members expressed their withdrawal of interest in hysterical behavior subtly, in such words as, "You're in recovery now and we will give you some physiotherapy, but let us concentrate on the home situation that may have brought this on." These face-saving countersuggestions reduced a patient's need to go on producing hysteroepileptic symptoms in order to certify that her problems were real. The symptoms then gradually withered from lack of nourishing attention. Patients began to take a more coherent and disciplined approach to their problems and found a resolution more appropriate than hysterical displays. The rules discovered by Babinski and Charcot, now embedded in psychiatric textbooks and confirmed by decades of research in social psychology, are being overlooked in the midst of a nationwide epidemic of alleged MPD that is wreaking havoc on both patients and therapists. MPD is an iatrogenic behavioral syndrome, promoted by suggestion, social consequences, and group loyalties. It rests on ideas about the self that obscure reality, and it responds to standard treatments. To begin with the first point: MPD, like hystero-epilepsy, is created by therapists. This formerly rare and disputed diagnosis became popular after the appearance of several best-selling books and movies. It is often based on the crudest form of suggestion. Here, for example, is some advice on how to elicit alternative personalities (alters, as they have come to be called), from an introduction to MPD by Stephen E. Buie, M.D., who is director of the Dissociative Disorders Treatment Program at a North Carolina hospital: "It may happen that an alter personality will reveal itself to you during this [assessment] process, but more likely it will not. So you may have to elicit an alter... You can begin by indirect [sic] questioning such as, 'Have you ever felt like another part of you does things that you can't control?' If she gives positive or ambiguous responses ask for specific examples. You are trying to develop a picture of what the alter personality is like...At this point you may ask the host personality, "Does this set of feelings have a name?"...Often the host personality will not know. You can then focus upon a particular event or set of behaviors. 'Can I talk to the part of you that is taking those long drives in the country?'" Once patients have permitted a psychiatrist to "talk to the part...that is taking these long drives," they are committed to the idea that they have MPD and must act in ways consistent with this self-image. The patient may be placed on a hospital service (often called the dissociative service) with others who have given the same compliant responses. The emergence of the first alter breaches the barrier of reality, and fantasy is allowed free rein. The patient and staff now begin a search for further alters surrounding the so called host personality. The original two or three personalities proliferate into 90 or 100. A lore evolves. At least one alter must be of the opposite sex (Patricia may have Penny but also must have Patrick). Sometimes it is even suggested that one alter is an animal. A dog, cat, or cow must be found and made to speak! Individual alters are followed in special notes for the hospital record. Every time an alter emerges, the hospital staff shows great interest. The search for fresh symptoms sustains the original commitment while cultivating and embellishing the suggestion. It becomes harder and harder for a patient to say to the psychiatrist or to anyone else, "Oh, let's stop this. It's just me taking those long drives in the country." The cause of MPD is supposed to be childhood sexual trauma so horrible that it has to be split off (dissociated) from the host consciousness and lodged in the alters. Patient and therapist begin a search for alters who remember the trauma and can identify the abusers. Thus commitment to the diagnosis of MPD is enhanced by the sense that a crime is being exposed and justice is being done. The patient now has such a powerful vested interest in sustaining the MPD enterprise that it almost becomes an end in itself. Certainly these patients, like Charcot's, have many emotional conflicts and have often suffered traumatic experiences. But everyone is distracted from the patient's main problems by a preoccupation with dramatic symptoms, and perhaps by a commitment to a single kind of psychological trauma. Furthermore, given that treatment may become interminable when therapists concentrate on fascinating symptoms, it is no wonder that MPD is regarded as a chronic disorder that often requires long stretches of time on dissociative units. Charcot removed his patients from the special wards when he realised what he had been inventing. We can do the same. These patients should be treated by the same methods Charcot used--isolation and countersuggestion. Close the dissociation services and disperse the patients to general psychiatric units. Ignore the alters. Stop talking to them, taking notes on them, and discussing them in staff conferences. Pay attention to real present problems and conflicts rather than fantasy. If these simple, familiar rules are followed, multiple personalities will soon wither away and psychotherapy can begin. Paul McHugh on psychiatry today. From jvcervantes Mon Apr 29 19:49:35 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:49:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out References: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> <3CCDD311.537FE6C4@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3CCDDC0F.ADEEAF6E@earthlink.net> Of course, but Paul R. McHugh says nothing about the mask poets can adopt so adroitly, and with that mask and language fluency comes the ability to mimic almost any voice, even one grounded in a pathological psychological condition. Methinks "Billie/Anna/Serbpoet" is one already among us. - Jim "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" wrote: > > Multiple Personality Disorder > > (Dissociative Identity Disorder) > > by Paul R. McHugh > > Paul McHugh, MD, is Henry Phipps Professor of Psychiatry and Director of the > Department of > Psychiatry and Behavioral Science at the Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions in > Baltimore. > > Prompted by the unexpected flourishing of this extraordinary diagnosis, students > often ask me > whether multiple personality disorder (MPD) really exists. I usually reply that > the symptoms > attributed to it are as genuine as hysterical paralysis and seizures and teach us etc. From Rsgwynn1 Mon Apr 29 20:30:49 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:30:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out Message-ID: <1a6.18ec22c.29ff3fb9@cs.com> i confession it. i am she or her, as cases may be. Joseph Duemer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mhb Mon Apr 29 20:53:40 2002 From: mhb (matthb) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:53:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out In-Reply-To: <1a6.18ec22c.29ff3fb9@cs.com> Message-ID: Why must they/he/she/it be 'smoked out'? Intentionally or no, the Serb poet posts are the funniest things on this list. Every list needs a resident psychotic. -matt From wjbat Mon Apr 29 23:58:42 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:58:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out In-Reply-To: <1a6.18ec22c.29ff3fb9@cs.com> Message-ID: <20020429205842.015237@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> wrote: >i confession it. i am she or her, as cases may be. Not me. Not a Cretan, either. Wendy From gmcvay Mon Apr 29 22:06:38 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Matt, Perhaps the original poster meant "smokin' him/her out" as in "providing him/her with a shared evening of marijuana smoking." It couldn't possibly make the style of grammar used any sillier. Gwyn --- "We share half our genome with the banana. This is more evident in some of my acquaintances than others." Sir Robert May, President of the Royal Society of London From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 30 01:01:57 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:01:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] John Prine Message-ID: Sessions at West 54th, on the Trio network, has a show this week featuring John Prine. If you love American poetry, check out the performance of this great singer-songwriter. And Iris Dement is there too! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards Tue Apr 30 01:16:48 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:16:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out References: <20020429205842.015237@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Message-ID: <006801c1f006$3abcb440$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> So you say, Wendy. We know what all Cretans are. SITUATIONS due out soon! Check for information at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Battin" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out > wrote: > > >i confession it. i am she or her, as cases may be. > > Not me. > Not a Cretan, either. > > Wendy > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cstroffo Tue Apr 30 07:42:50 2002 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 04:42:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Prine References: Message-ID: <3CCE833A.C5D411A8@earthlink.net> yea, mr. gwynn, we actually agree on something but your flag decal still won't get you into heaven anymore Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > Sessions at West 54th, on the Trio network, has a show this week > featuring John Prine. If you love American poetry, check out the > performance of this great singer-songwriter. And Iris Dement is there > too! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Serbpoet Tue Apr 30 07:44:26 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:44:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] who it can be? Message-ID: <86.19e877d8.29ffdd9a@aol.com> who it can be? love jesus alway! STORY OF MY EARLY YEARS FOR PROOF Dear Gwyn, I was born in Serbia too poor, nor do I remember the years my father died or who adopted my baby sister to us as I was then probably young. My mother and myself live in small 2 storys house. Our barber was only a block away. The stove was used for heating and cooking both ways. Meals were not scant and I loved pancakes as the most. And however I disliked chicken and still do, but I will eat it if I can't get anything exceptional about it. Once in a while I will drink little beers as child. Oh how good the coffee that could be made by boiling it up!! For Christmas i almost always got poetrys or colored picture of Virgin or famous lifelike statues of saints like movie stars of the silky screen. Though young i did not hate school. But I did tell a teacher who she was a catholic nun that i hate school when in truths it was Nun I meant because of her strict scold to me always. Then i play hooky because of it. So was boxed on ears. As girl i had a very queer ways of playing in the snow with voices. More of that on another days. I also excelled in writing poetrys though poor in geography of earth and distant stars. At six years penned to myself the following opus, a part of it here for further proof of me: vladik was nasty imp and beat to a cat, sonia threw stone in blind mans head, viktor was boy that neglected prayers to Virgin, they have all grown up dead, nobody will cry. Gwyn--who are you to you w/out god? Anna From jvcervantes Tue Apr 30 08:54:01 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 05:54:01 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] who it can be? References: <86.19e877d8.29ffdd9a@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCE93E8.EA7FA079@earthlink.net> Dear Madonna-of-the-Spoof: I have a friend who wants to be a nun. She recently sent me an essay on St. Paul, and mentioned in the accompanying message that her guy and her truck are missing, so I know how it goes. I like how you play with snow in the voices. - yr fan, Jim Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > > who it can be? love jesus alway! > > STORY OF MY EARLY YEARS FOR PROOF > > Dear Gwyn, > > I was born in Serbia too poor, nor do I remember the years my father died or > who adopted my baby sister to us as I was then probably young. > My mother and myself live in small 2 storys house. Our barber was only a > block away. The stove was used for heating and cooking both ways. Meals > were not scant and I loved pancakes as the most. And however I disliked > chicken and still do, but I will eat it if I can't get anything exceptional > about it. > Once in a while I will drink little beers as child. Oh how good the coffee > that could be made by boiling it up!! > For Christmas i almost always got poetrys or colored picture of Virgin or > famous lifelike statues of saints like movie stars of the silky screen. > Though young i did not hate school. But I did tell a teacher who she was a > catholic nun that i hate school when in truths it was Nun I meant because of > her strict scold to me always. Then i play hooky because of it. So was > boxed on ears. > As girl i had a very queer ways of playing in the snow with voices. More of > that on another days. > I also excelled in writing poetrys though poor in geography of earth and > distant stars. > At six years penned to myself the following opus, a part of it here for > further proof of me: > vladik was nasty imp and beat to a cat, > sonia threw stone in blind mans head, > viktor was boy that neglected prayers to Virgin, > they have all grown up dead, nobody will cry. > > Gwyn--who are you to you w/out god? > > Anna > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JackKerouac25 Tue Apr 30 12:29:39 2002 From: JackKerouac25 (JackKerouac25 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:29:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Clayton Eshleman Message-ID: <20.281bd45b.2a002073@aol.com> Howdy listers, I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically working-class southern poetry. I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you can point me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and names of poets would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Jeff N. _____________________________________________________________________ Jeffrey L. Newberry *REMOVED SO AS NOT TO OFFEND* Department of English and Foreign Languages University of West Florida 11000 University Parkway Pensacola, FL 32514 850.474.2923 850.473.7330 From JackKerouac25 Tue Apr 30 12:30:26 2002 From: JackKerouac25 (JackKerouac25 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:30:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <5a.ac68cac.2a0020a2@aol.com> Howdy listers, I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically working-class southern poetry. I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you can point me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and names of poets would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Jeff N. _____________________________________________________________________ Jeffrey L. Newberry Adjunct Instructor Department of English and Foreign Languages University of West Florida 11000 University Parkway Pensacola, FL 32514 850.474.2923 850.473.7330 From GrahamD Tue Apr 30 12:48:58 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:48:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E24@mail.ripon.edu> Jeff, you might like to look at Michael Chitwood's *The Weave Room*, from U Chicago (1998). Book description: "The poems in The Weave Room reveal the life of a textile mill as it weathers a decisive social and human moment. Whether speaking in the voice of a weaver trying to quell a crowd about to turn violent over unionization or in his own voice as one of the mill's employees, Chitwood brings together many social and historical threads to show the pattern of a people and a place that has received little treatment in American poetry." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: JackKerouac25 at aol.com > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:30 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry > > Howdy listers, > > I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically > working-class southern poetry. > > I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you can > point > me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and names > of > poets would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Jeff N. > _____________________________________________________________________ > > From Serbpoet Tue Apr 30 13:00:36 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:00:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] working-class southern poetry Message-ID: <161.d04d75c.2a0027b4@aol.com> "I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically working-class southern poetry." These have never produced potery. Stop your search NOW. It is impossible. Gwyn, I flourished in my body as a young girl. I am beautiful even now. Behind our game we play lies a purpose that is neither yours nor mine to question it. Also these numbers of Jeffrey L. Newberry 850.474.2923 850.473.7330 What are they meant to US? I will call them on the compurter if I am forced to. Stop your fruitlessness! Accept God. Anna From jvcervantes Tue Apr 30 13:51:18 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:51:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E24@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CCED996.E9E31824@earthlink.net> Conversely, it would be interesting to see an anthology of poems by independently wealthy poets, and/or those who have never held a job for whatever reason. A separate issue: Is Philip Levine *really* a "working class" poet? - Jim, owner of many blue shirts "Graham, David" wrote: > > Jeff, you might like to look at Michael Chitwood's *The Weave Room*, from U > Chicago (1998). > > Book description: > > "The poems in The Weave Room reveal the life of a textile mill as it > weathers a decisive social and human moment. Whether speaking in the voice > of a weaver trying to quell a crowd about to turn violent over unionization > or in his own voice as one of the mill's employees, Chitwood brings together > many social and historical threads to show the pattern of a people and a > place that has received little treatment in American poetry." > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > > ---------- > > From: JackKerouac25 at aol.com > > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:30 AM > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry > > > > Howdy listers, > > > > I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically > > working-class southern poetry. > > > > I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you can > > point > > me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and names > > of > > poets would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Jeff N. > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From GrahamD Tue Apr 30 14:00:55 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:00:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E25@mail.ripon.edu> An anthology of independently wealthy poets probably wouldn't sell--overlapping too much with Vol. I of the Norton Anthology of English Poetry. As for whether Levine's a *real* working class poet, I wouldn't touch that one with a gilded pole. Interesting side-note: does anyone know exactly why Levine eventually replaced his remark on his dust jackets about "stupid jobs" with "industrial jobs"? Has he ever talked about that in an interview, maybe? David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: James Cervantes > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:51 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry > > Conversely, it would be interesting to see an anthology of poems by > independently wealthy poets, and/or those who have never held a job for > whatever reason. > > A separate issue: Is Philip Levine *really* a "working class" poet? > > - Jim, owner of many blue shirts > > "Graham, David" wrote: > > > > Jeff, you might like to look at Michael Chitwood's *The Weave Room*, > from U > > Chicago (1998). > > > > Book description: > > > > "The poems in The Weave Room reveal the life of a textile mill as it > > weathers a decisive social and human moment. Whether speaking in the > voice > > of a weaver trying to quell a crowd about to turn violent over > unionization > > or in his own voice as one of the mill's employees, Chitwood brings > together > > many social and historical threads to show the pattern of a people and a > > place that has received little treatment in American poetry." > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ======================================== > > > > > ---------- > > > From: JackKerouac25 at aol.com > > > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:30 AM > > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry > > > > > > Howdy listers, > > > > > > I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, > specifically > > > working-class southern poetry. > > > > > > I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you > can > > > point > > > me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and > names > > > of > > > poets would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Jeff N. > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jvcervantes Tue Apr 30 13:57:37 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:57:37 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] working-class southern poetry References: <161.d04d75c.2a0027b4@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCEDB11.1F4C28EF@earthlink.net> Anna: When I was managing an apartment bldg in Seattle in 1971, there was a tenant who came to my apartment to use my phone all the time. He would knock and ask if he could please call Jesus. He would dial a number he had scribbled on a well-worn square of paper and then just listen. Then, after a while he'd say, "Thank you, Jesus," and hang up. I confess I listened but could never hear a voice on the other end, nor did I ever hear a busy signal. What will happen if Gwyn calls Jeffrey L. Newberry? - Jim Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > > "I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically > working-class southern poetry." > > These have never produced potery. Stop your search NOW. It is impossible. > Gwyn, I flourished in my body as a young girl. I am beautiful even now. > Behind our game we play lies a purpose that is neither yours nor mine to > question it. Also these numbers of Jeffrey L. Newberry 850.474.2923 > 850.473.7330 > What are they meant to US? I will call them on the compurter if I am forced > to. Stop your fruitlessness! Accept God. > > Anna > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gudding Tue Apr 30 14:25:27 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:25:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry In-Reply-To: <3CCED996.E9E31824@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Brian O'Nolan remarks on a one Jem Casey, a poet of the working class. O'Nolan was especially fond of Casey's poem "Workman's Friend," the subject of which is a glass of porter. Jem Casey was very much about the working classes. Here is the peroration of his finest poem: A WORKIN' MAN, A WORKIN' MAN, Hurray Hurray for a Workin' Man, He'll navvy and sweat till he's nearly bet, THE GIFT OF GOD IS A WORKIN' MAN! Gabe From trbell Tue Apr 30 17:06:58 2002 From: trbell (trbell at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:06:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Clayton Eshleman References: <20.281bd45b.2a002073@aol.com> Message-ID: <002b01c1f08a$f9bab340$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> those are some pretty slippery things to define. I'm someone who comes from a working class background in the north but at the moment I live in the south and I'm not writing poetry today. Johnny Cash is doing some good stuff again and Bobby Dylan? tom bell From JforJames Tue Apr 30 15:24:13 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:24:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <174.78d00f5.2a00495d@aol.com> In a message dated 4/30/02 2:02:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GrahamD at Mail.Ripon.EDU writes: > As for whether Levine's a *real* working class poet, I wouldn't touch that > one with a gilded pole. > > Interesting side-note: does anyone know exactly why Levine eventually > replaced his remark on his dust jackets about "stupid jobs" with "industrial > jobs"? Has he ever talked about that in an interview, maybe? I'll bite (Levine lover that I am); yes and no. Yes, because he's chosen in his work to keep coming back to his personal/family history at a particular time in his life. He continues to honor (& to romanticize) his working class roots. Is Springsteen a working-class rocker? Yes, & no...Yes, his song narratives continue to explore that territory...no, his net worth puts him well beyond the pale of the folks in the picket line. Presumptuously, I'll hazard a guess on his bio note revision.... "Industrial" doesn't have the same derogatory connotation that "stupid" has, even if stated in a self-deprecating fashion... The jobs may have been beneath his intelligence, but he doesn't intend to inadvertently demean those who are still doing the heavy lifting in society. Finnegan From JforJames Tue Apr 30 15:25:58 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:25:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] AllenGinsberg.Org Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:10:04 EDT From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Allen Ginsberg Trust website is up and running Subj: Allenginsberg.org launch Allen Ginsberg Trust/PO Box 582/Stuyvesant Station/N.Y.C., N.Y. 10009 212 358 9534 (fax) 212 358 9529 For Immediate Release www.allenginsberg.org Contacts Bob Rosenthal Rich Forhez The Allen Ginsberg Trust dataWonk, Inc. 212-358-9534 / phone 415-495-1695 / phone 212-358-9529 / fax 415-276-1878 / fax bob at allenginsberg.org rich at datawonk.com www.allenginsberg.org www.datawonk.com Allen Ginsberg Trust launches Web site as platform for sharing text, photos, hand-written documents, and audio and video materials representing Allen Ginsberg's life and times. New York, NY - March 28, 2002 - The Allen Ginsberg Trust of New York and Web development firm dataWonk, Inc. of San Francisco announce the launch of www.allenginsberg.org. "One of Ginsberg's highest callings was to teach, and the Web as a medium offers unprecedented ability to disseminate and impart," says Trust director Bob Rosenthal. He continues, "Allen Ginsberg changed the American language through his poetry. He infused it with a neo-prophetic tone and charged it with candor that even still never bows or winks. He injected Eastern meditative spirituality into the American voice. He jostled us readers out of our daydreams and galvanized us to enact our own liberation. Ginsberg understood that the power of poetry is in its powerlessness; no other poet after Walt Whitman could so awaken the soul." Ginsberg, with Jack Kerouac, William Burroughs, Gregory Corso, Peter Orlovsky, and others, at times shocked a nation and the world with their free-spirited behavior and writings as they met and became friends during America's post-war economic boom. In stark contrast to the country's cultural shift to conservatism, their travels, their antics, their writings, their highly publicized experimentation with psychedelic drugs, all gave voice to one generation while terrifying another. From state courtrooms to the halls of congressional and senatorial hearings to the U.S. Supreme Court, the Beats - as they became known - formed the very foundation for not just a major literary movement but social responsibility, political activism and liberal thought around the world during the later half of the 20th century. At the heart of the site are two exciting features: The Lifeline, a Flash-based chronology of important events about Ginsberg and the Beats, and the Library, a repository intended for research that includes manuscripts, text, audio and video clips, photographs and art works. Launching with a modest volume, the Library is intended to grow substantially over time to included thousands of items, "...so that those wishing to research Ginsberg's life and work would have ample fodder for their own interpretive experience." Please contact Robert Rosenthal at The Allen Ginsberg Trust (212-358-9534 by phone, 212-358-9529 by fax or bob at allenginsberg.org by email) or Rich Forhez at dataWonk, Inc.(415-495-1695 by phone, 415-276-1878 by fax or rich at datawonk.com by email) for more information. The Allen Ginsberg Trust was established a few years prior to Ginsberg's death to manage the tangible and non-tangible assets left behind by the famous Beat poet in an effort to "...continually share his life-work to reveal the intelligence and beauty of his aim of increasing consciousness on the planet." The firm dataWonk, Inc. provides Web and e-commerce strategy, design and development solutions for business-to-business and business-to-consumer challenges. # # # From languagethief Tue Apr 30 15:29:37 2002 From: languagethief (The Old Mole) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] who it can be? In-Reply-To: <86.19e877d8.29ffdd9a@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020430192937.76787.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com> Gotta wonder what those two stories were.... --- Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > who it can be? love jesus alway! > > STORY OF MY EARLY YEARS FOR PROOF > > Dear Gwyn, > > I was born in Serbia too poor, nor do I remember the > years my father died or > who adopted my baby sister to us as I was then > probably young. > My mother and myself live in small 2 storys house. > Our barber was only a > block away. The stove was used for heating and > cooking both ways. Meals > were not scant and I loved pancakes as the most. > And however I disliked > chicken and still do, but I will eat it if I can't > get anything exceptional > about it. > Once in a while I will drink little beers as child. > Oh how good the coffee > that could be made by boiling it up!! > For Christmas i almost always got poetrys or colored > picture of Virgin or > famous lifelike statues of saints like movie stars > of the silky screen. > Though young i did not hate school. But I did tell > a teacher who she was a > catholic nun that i hate school when in truths it > was Nun I meant because of > her strict scold to me always. Then i play hooky > because of it. So was > boxed on ears. > As girl i had a very queer ways of playing in the > snow with voices. More of > that on another days. > I also excelled in writing poetrys though poor in > geography of earth and > distant stars. > At six years penned to myself the following opus, a > part of it here for > further proof of me: > vladik was nasty imp and beat to a cat, > sonia threw stone in blind mans head, > viktor was boy that neglected prayers to Virgin, > they have all grown up dead, nobody will cry. > > Gwyn--who are you to you w/out god? > > Anna > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From Robtberner Tue Apr 30 15:46:48 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:46:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] class warfare Message-ID: david graham writes that it would be interesting to see an anthology of stuff by indepently wealthy poets. well how about any volume by james merrill, of the merrills of merrill-lynch? is that independently wealthy enough for you? after that, would you want to read any more such stuff? robert berner From Robtberner Tue Apr 30 16:00:05 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:00:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] vote early, vote often Message-ID: as of this writing, i have received 19 confessions in response to my will-the-real-serbpoet/anna/billie-please-stand-up inquiries, almost double the number of letters i sent. this is better than chicago. robert berner From snospx Tue Apr 30 16:53:49 2002 From: snospx (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:53:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry: claiming Anna In-Reply-To: <200204301959.g3UJx7Q13485@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020430135349.007b9330@snowcrest.net> At 03:59 PM 4/30/02 -0400, Robert Berner wrote: > as of this writing, i have received 19 confessions in response to my >will-the-real-serbpoet/anna/billie-please-stand-up inquiries, almost double >the number of letters i sent. this is better than chicago. > > robert berner ****** this 19 is what jesus said to our dear Billie on silent phoneline, all is Anna all is dear-luv-Billie all is very Serbo-Croatian all this with no words, in severe silence, who need a words onc being jesus (you see where I'm taking you to, Gwyn?) who it can be? anna sez and love jesus alway! STORY OF MY EARLY YEARS FOR PROOF, she sez, no sweeter sensetence since Goatthru Stein! so no wonder all the claimants, who wax surprise, godless-Gwhyn? this is sending Blessings on to billiespeak, from Indo-Yropean family always with a nice volto to loving as remember "you talkin to me?" of hansom Roger REdfield in the Taxicab movie where he wonders to us from silky screen, so, 'Gwynne you tell me, I'm mastorbator also? this is doubt full but i acept to bury my cross nonethe less THE langwidg is my ice creamed! Gwyn, Gwynne, you rsist, I understand, but face it THIS make jesus no nevermine -- Another Anna-lover for Nader From GrahamD Tue Apr 30 16:58:40 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:58:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E26@mail.ripon.edu> No, 'twasn't me said it'd be interesting to have an antho by independently wealthy poets. I said we already HAVE such an anthology: it's called the canon. At least it *was* the canon, before we started letting in riffraff like Villon, I suppose. And now Levine. Geez! But let's not bash the wealthy any more than we glorify the workers just *because* of their cash flow. I find James Merrill largely not to my taste, it's true, but that's due to his style, not his bankroll. I like Emily Dickinson rather a lot, and she lived in considerable comfort. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Robtberner at aol.com > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:46 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] class warfare > > david graham writes that it would be interesting to see an anthology of > > stuff by indepently wealthy poets. well how about any volume by james > merrill, of the merrills of merrill-lynch? is that independently wealthy > enough for you? after that, would you want to read any more such stuff? > robert berner > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From GrahamD Tue Apr 30 17:03:57 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:03:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Prine Shrine Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E27@mail.ripon.edu> Knowing that there are other John Prine fans in the congregation, I cannot help forwarding the following--news of the Prine Shrine, with website, email newsletter, and more. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: prineshrine > Reply To: John_Prine_Shrine-owner at yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:59 PM > To: John_Prine_Shrine at yahoogroups.com > Subject: John Prine Shrine Newsletter & Erratic Ramblings New Dates > Added > > > > Hey Prine Fans.... > It's time for some erratic ramblings: > > For the past few days I've been updating the Tour Dates section in > the Prine Shrine http://www.jpshrine.org/ontour.html and think I have > found just about all the proper links and ticket information for > now - so take a look: > > 5/17 Coronado Theater, Rockford, IL > 5/18 Weidner Center, Green Bay, WI > 5/24 Mountain Winery, Saratoga, CA > 5/25 Mt. Aire Music Fest, Calaveras Cty, CA > 5/31 Wolf Trap, Vienna, VA > 6/01 Mann Music Center, Philadelphia, PA > 8/02 Usher Hall, Edinburgh, Scotland > 8/04 Cambridge Folk Festival, Cambridge, England > 8/16 Gerald Ford Amphitheater, Vail, CO > 8/17 Rocky Mountain Folks Festival, Lyons, CO > 8/23 Washington Pavilion, Sioux Falls, SD > 8/24 Minnesota Zoo Amphitheatre, Minneapolis, MN > 8/30 Columbus Zoo Amphitheatre, Columbus, OH > > I hope this brings a smile to some of your faces... (and the rest > of you - just patiently mumble something dirty in Hawaiian, I'm > confident that there will be more dates to add soon) > > I finally finished the "Souvenirs" section in the Shrine > http://www.jpshrine.org/souvenirs and you might enjoy looking at the > online collection of John Prine paraphernalia. Anyone with any > information on items there are welcome help me update anything. Those > items posted are not for sale in the Prine Shrine, but, some of the > items are still available at Oh Boy Records http://www.ohboy.com - > just check out their Company Store and Store Annex. > > John's concert tour is going great, I do hope that you get a chance > to get out there an hear him. I have heard from quite a few people > who have said "It's the best concert I ever seen" (of course, this > seems to be the reaction to any Prine concert anyone has ever seen) > Just take a road trip this summer to see a show, explore a new town > and meet some other Prine fans. > > If you've gotten to hear Todd Snider opening for John, then you've > probably become an instant fan. Stop by his site at Oh Boy Records > http://www.ohboy.com/toddhome.html and check out his new CD coming > out May 14 - Oh Boy is taking pre-orders (check the company store > http://www.ohboy.com/compstore/ohboy.htm), and rush to get your pre- > order in, The CD is absolutely fantastic. Not only will it make two > of the Shrine's Prine lists ('Albums Prine is mentioned on' > and 'Albums Prine appears on') but it is one of those well rounded > albums that takes you on an emotional roller coaster ride. I just > can't say enough good things if I wasn't grinning at 'Statiticians > Blues', 'Easy', 'Vinyl Records', or 'Beer Run' then I was getting all > misty eyed at 'Waco Moon' and of course, the duet between Prine and > Snider on 'Crooked Piece of Time' is so beautifully done that it is > worth the price of the CD itself. David Jacques, Jason Wilber, Will > Kimbrough, Paul Griffith do some fabulous playing along with vocals > by Kim Richey. Do yourself a favor and go listen to the clips at Oh > Boy... with the exception of Prine's song - It's all original stuff > from Todd and just amazing....'nuff said. > > Here is one more thing, for all you trivia buffs: That car on > the cover of "Sweet Revenge" is a 1959 Porsche Sporster. I've been > asked for years and finally got the answer (I bow to you Billy!) > > Again, Thank you for all your comments, stories, suggestions and help > with the Prine Shrine - it is greatly appreciated and needed. As much > as I search and bother people for information, I still wouldn't be > able to find it all without your help. > > and for now... > the rambling ends. > Reeda > > > > > Thank you, > Reeda aka PMS*red > webmistress of the John Prine Shrine > http://www.jpshrine.org > > John Prine Shrine Tour Information > http://www.jpshrine.org/ontour.html > Get your Prine paraphernalia at OhBoy! Records > http://www.ohboy.com > > Addresses: > Just send a blank email > Subscribe: John_Prine_Shrine-subscribe at yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe by email: John_Prine_Shrine-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > URL to this page: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/John_Prine_Shrine > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From JforJames Tue Apr 30 17:13:16 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:13:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare Message-ID: All poets are privileged, don't you think? Finnegan From JforJames Tue Apr 30 17:21:09 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:21:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: In a message dated 4/30/02 12:33:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JackKerouac25 at aol.com writes: > working-class southern poetry. Kate Daniels has written poems related to her experiences growing up in a poor working class family. Finnegan From halvard Tue Apr 30 17:39:08 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:39:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E26@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: { But let's not bash the wealthy any more than we glorify the workers just { *because* of their cash flow. I find James Merrill largely not to my taste, { it's true, but that's due to his style, not his bankroll. I like Emily { Dickinson rather a lot, and she lived in considerable comfort. And let's not forget Dan Gerber, who, I've heard tell, is of the baby food fortune, and he turned some of that money into a long-running little mag and press called *Sumac* a few years back. Merrill, of course, funded a foundation that many less fortunate scribes have benefited from, did he not? Hal "Arbeit macht das Leben s?ss." Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From Thom424 Tue Apr 30 18:11:58 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:11:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: working class lit/anthologies Message-ID: _Working Classics_. Ed. Peter Oresick & Nicholas Coles. (Univ. Illinois Press, 1990). _For a Living : the Poetry of Work_. Ed. by Nicholas Coles & Peter Oresick. (University of Illinois Press,1995). _An American Mosaic : Prose and Poetry by Everyday Folk_ Ed. Robert Wolf. (Oxford University Press, 1999). Mostly writing by non-academics/non-MFA grads. _Calling Wome : Working-Class Women's Writings_. Edited Janet Zandy (Rutgers University Press,1990). There are Southern writers among the many anthologized in these collections. Paul Lauter has written a great deal about working-class literature, and _The Heath Anthology of American Literature_, under his general editorship, reflects his working-class interests. Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 30 18:29:49 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:29:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <97.26dade86.2a0074dd@cs.com> Check out Cathy Smith Bowers. She's pretty good. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat Tue Apr 30 21:36:17 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020430183617.010808@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Halvard Johnson wrote: >Merrill, of course, funded a foundation that many less fortunate scribes >have benefited from, did he not? He did indeed. signed, Grateful in Mystic From daisyf1 Tue Apr 30 19:00:17 2002 From: daisyf1 (daisyf1 at juno.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:00:17 GMT Subject: [New-Poetry] working class poems Message-ID: <20020430.160112.9308.7960@webmail1.wlv.untd.com> Hayden's Ferry Review put out an issue devoted to writing about work in, I'm going to say, the last two, maybe three, years. It had some excellent stuff in it. Daisy Fried From grahamd Tue Apr 30 20:53:38 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:53:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare Message-ID: <200205010053.g410r4m30890@mx8.mx.voyager.net> And let's not forget James Laughlin, a rich kid who took Ezra Pound's advice to back-burner his own merely OK poetry and start up a little press. He had a huge impact on American publishing. David Graham (alas, not connected to the Sylvester Graham cracker fortune) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > >And let's not forget Dan Gerber, who, I've heard tell, is of the baby food >fortune, and he turned some of that money into a long-running little mag and >press called *Sumac* a few years back. > >Merrill, of course, funded a foundation that many less fortunate scribes >have benefited from, did he not? > >Hal "Arbeit macht das Leben s?ss." From JforJames Tue Apr 30 20:57:15 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:57:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] f-lux Message-ID: f-lux internet magazine for literature f-lux is a new magazine for literature, a publication which seeks to present previously unissued poetry and prose on the Internet. This project has been brought to life by Christian Genzel and Judith Haudum as part of a proseminar at the Department of English and American Studies at the University of Salzburg, Austria. Although the first issue is designed to be a one-off publication due to its connection to the course, f-lux will be continued if possible. The idea behind f-lux is that literature can be a source of light, guiding people on their journeys, similar to the lighthouse which directs the ship on its course. In both cases, lux is the element which leads you towards a certain destination whether you are travelling physically or via a flux of thoughts. The flux implies a state of change which allows you to alter your perception, either concerning literature or the individual self. The first issue of f-lux intends to collect "impressions from a distance", where authors can present their individual views on what they think is important in people's lives. The resulting collection, which includes prose and poetry, experimental and traditional, will picture various aspects of reality describing the world not necessarily the way it is, but the way it might be perceived. The editors of f-lux invite everybody who is interested to send in submissions which will be considered for publication in the first issue. Since f-lux collaborates with the renowned literature magazine Poetry Salzburg Review (formerly The Poet's Voice), published by Poetry Salzburg (www.poetrysalzburg.com, formerly Salzburg University Press), all submissions will also be taken into account for Poetry Salzburg Review No. 4 by its editor, Wolfgang G?rtschacher (unless the author explicitly objects to this), regardless of whether f-lux accepts them or not. The requirements for submissions are that ... ? they are written in English, ? they are previously unpublished, ? they relate to the first issue's topic, "impressions from a distance". Please include a bio/ bibliographical note and send your texts via email to f_lux1 at yahoo.com. The deadline for all submissions is April 30, 2002. The first issue of f-lux will be available at www.f-lux1.tk by the end of May 2002. If there are any further questions, comments or suggestions, feel free to contact the f-lux team at f_lux1 at yahoo.com. Looking forward to your contributions, Christian Genzel & Judith Haudum From JforJames Tue Apr 30 21:25:08 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:25:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Geo. Bradley poem Message-ID: <72.1bb155e5.2a009df4@aol.com> Zen of the Great Dismal Swamp Neck-deep in the palus of particulars -- Thrust in fecundity and rot, the liquefaction Of flesh animal and vegetable, all but submerged In spasm, the start of prey from inevitable attack, In frenzy, opposed imperatives of lust and fear, Inside the kaleidescopic vision of repetitious fact -- Denizens, clutched by weedy circumstance, must tread Muck furiously simply to survive and so rarely Manage breaching or the great leap vigorous Enough to comprehend the nature of their confine, Behold its great extent, define their site sufficiently To perceive the not unshapely state they're in . . . . We try. Long ago and far away, a prince Dressed as a beggar sat beneath a tree until The cyclic seamlessness around him seemed Distant as the sun, detached more than the moon, So removed as to be beautiful, a blaze of light and love. In that instant the prince smiled and became A god, became a statue and the statue's story And ceased all other manner of becoming. Meanwhile, outside the palace where the prince Had left behind particulars of wife and child, The diseased creatures whose mere existence Had provoked long search and great revelation Shifted on the marble, scratched persistent sores, Peered each in his cup to count the blessings of that day. From Robtberner Tue Apr 30 22:35:31 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:35:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] was arbeit macht Message-ID: <32.2639bba8.2a00ae73@aol.com> muede robert berner From acgold01 Tue Apr 30 23:15:58 2002 From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:15:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working-class Southern poetry Message-ID: Jeff, I'd recommend C. D. Wright--relevant material running through the last four or five books (well, I guess not *Just Whistle*) but esp. *Deepstep Come Shining* and poems in *String Light*. Alan From odysseus34 Mon Apr 1 01:12:15 2002 From: odysseus34 (Timothy D. Chase) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:12:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin References: <156.b81558c.29d8f016@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CA7FA3A.FE8FEC6C@earthlink.net> TerryP17 at aol.com wrote: > the Washington Post actually did an article on her The article is actually online at http://www.lynlifshin.com/postintvw.htm with the intriguing pullquote, "Lyn Lifshin is America's most published poet. And that's why nobody knows her name." Opening paragraph: "Dig the hair. I mean, she wants you to. She's written poems about it. Her fairy-tale hair. Rapunzel hair, so bottle-blond and bright and unexpected around her papery, fiftysomething face that when she comes to the door it's all you see -- flash! -- framing her eyes (huge and dark), blanketing her shoulders and sledding down her tiny Tinkerbell back. Wild hair, hippie hair. Ropes of hair. There should be a tiny prince climbing it, coming to save her. Hair like hay, hair like straw. Isn't that Rumpelstiltskin down in the basement, pulling the stuff out of her hairbrushes and spinning it into gold?" (Whether anyone, Washington Post writer or not, likes Lifshin as a poet, why does the profile have to start off so fixated on her physical appearance? Sigh.) IIRC Sharon Olds is another poet who hasn't time to type out all the poetry in her notebooks, but she gets a lot more critical respect than Lifshin does. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From odysseus34 Mon Apr 1 01:44:42 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:44:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath's last journals turn up References: Message-ID: <3CA801D6.BF73FFCC@earthlink.net> Yo! (eyeballs pop out and spin around in a Roger Rabbit effect) IIRC Hughes always said he'd never destroyed the last volume of her journal from about 59 to 62, but the one written in the first months of 63 because he didn't want her children to have to read it. This sound though as if that final journal had survived all along. In her recent biography of Hughes (which is fairly sympathetic to Sylvia) Elaine Feinstein finds it unlikely Hughes would have revealed his lover's pregnancy to Plath in the last week of her life, and in her rather dreadful "Sylvia and Ted" Emma Tennant has Assia make the dramatic announcement herself. It seems possible Hughes might have blurted something out in sheer frustration. In Paul Alexander's biography "Rough Magic" he reported getting an anonymous call from someone who said Plath intended at first to kill her children along with herself, but there was no way to check the information -- if Plath's final journals did contain that information Hughes' decision to destroy them is more understandable. Moira Russell Seattle, WA JforJames at aol.com wrote: > Saw a note about this on PoetryEtc List...more fuel for the > fire... > > http://www.sylviaplathforum.com/docs/lost-journals.html > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Mon Apr 1 07:31:53 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:31:53 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin References: <156.b81558c.29d8f016@aol.com> <3CA7FA3A.FE8FEC6C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001a01c1d979$34c0b800$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> > (Whether anyone, Washington Post writer or not, likes Lifshin as a poet, why > does the profile have to start off so fixated on her physical appearance? > Sigh.) Because nothing can establish a person quickly in the mind better than his personal appearance? ("His" is there on politically-incorrect purpose.) Or his oddities? Except both together? --Bob G. From Thom424 Mon Apr 1 07:59:09 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:59:09 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin Message-ID: <194.4b95296.29d9b39d@aol.com> Blame Lifshin for many things, but certainly don't blame her for publishing her work in all those magazines--that seems to be the fault (desire?) of the editors of those magazines, not Lifshin's. Perhaps small magazine editors have created the publishing "monster" that Lifshin is or has the reputation of being or....What if 80% of the editors where she has published her poems had not accepted them? When they don't like a program, t.v. viewers can switch channels or turn off the t.v. Magazine editors have a similar option?they can reject & return the poems. Simple as that. Some editors?such as Terry P.?have done this, but evidently not enough of them. William Stafford had a somewhat similar situation during his life. I can't think of (but I'm sure there are some) a magazine that didn't publish a Stafford poem or two one time or another. Many people criticized Stafford for publishing so much. At some point (I think it was Reginald Gibbons in a review) Stafford was berated for his attitude toward and philosophy of writing and publishing so much. Seems to me that the editors of the magazines who published Stafford's poems should be the target, not Stafford. Stafford coerced no one, simply sent his poems out into the world?other people published them. Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From FanwoodJEL Mon Apr 1 08:10:09 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 08:10:09 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin Message-ID: Seems to me that at about precisely the same moment that Donald Hall was berating the rest of us for publishing too much too fast too undistinguished too derivative too unripened McJohnny O'OneNote, his own work was (and still is) appearing in every single blessed journal in America, simultaneously. I can't remember what his hair looks like. Of course, he was solicited, which makes a difference. Right? Jeffrey Levine In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002 8:00:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, Thom424 at aol.com writes: > Blame Lifshin for many things, but certainly don't blame her for publishing > her work in all those magazines--that seems to be the fault (desire?) of the > editors of those magazines, not Lifshin's. Perhaps small magazine editors > have created the publishing "monster" that Lifshin is or has the reputation > of being or....What if 80% of the editors where she has published her poems > had not accepted them? When they don't like a program, t.v. viewers can > switch channels or turn off the t.v. Magazine editors have a similar > optionthey can reject & return the poems. Simple as that. Some editorssuch > as Terry P.have done this, but evidently not enough of them. > > William Stafford had a somewhat similar situation during his life. I can't > think of (but I'm sure there are some) a magazine that didn't publish a > Stafford poem or two one time or another. Many people criticized Stafford for > publishing so much. At some point (I think it was Reginald Gibbons in a > review) Stafford was berated for his attitude toward and philosophy of > writing and publishing so much. Seems to me that the editors of the magazines > who published Stafford's poems should be the target, not Stafford. Stafford > coerced no one, simply sent his poems out into the worldother people > published them. > > Thom Tammaro > Moorhead, MN > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Henry_Gould Mon Apr 1 08:28:13 2002 From: Henry_Gould (Henry Gould) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 08:28:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: the black swan In-Reply-To: <3CA4CBE3.8381.EC0F48E@localhost> References: <004901c1d692$9983b740$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020401074641.00aa0500@postoffice.brown.edu> There's nothing more futile than arguing over metaphysics. Where did our notions of human justice come from? Where did we learn them? Where did the notions "love your enemy", "bless those who curse you", "do good to those who persecute you" - where did these come from? Not from human nature, at least as I know it. They came, perhaps, from a perception of equilibrium in nature. And where did that come from - the equilibrium, I mean? You assert a dichotomy between "hard" information about the natural world, provided by science, and "soft" concepts derived from human norms, like justice - mere verbal formulae, provided by culture. But positivism stops with information - it doesn't allow us to query the meaning of information. I like the Renaissance philosopher Nicolas Cusanus, a humanist with an artist's vision. Cusanus centers his perspective on the concept of imago Dei - that "Man" is the image of a creator-God. But as there is no proportion between the finite and the infinite, the "little world" that Man creates is always a "conjectural" world. Cusanus elicits a positive value from this state of things, however. Our imaginative, interactive engagement with this invented world is the playful purpose of our existence. The most important & substantial discovery we can make is the knowledge of our ignorance (Wallace Stevens would approve). The evidence some of us have brought to this discussion, about the origins of physics in imaginative activity, give the lie to the supposed dichotomy between scientific fact and humanistic value. & if Cusanus is right, we live in a universe more deeply tinctured by the "human" - steeped in meaning(s) which a pile of observed "facts" cannot automatically provide. Henry Marcus Bales: >I think we react with horror at the actions of the Khmer Rouge >because they offend our notions of human justice, but not because >they offend some notion of justice in objective reality. It seems as >if it's the reaction "with horror" that persuades you that there is >"objective justice". Is that right? If so, why is a horrified reaction >any more evidence for the existince of "objective justice" than for >"human-created justice"? > >Today in Cleveland a female falcon that was banded in Pittsburgh, >and has been hanging around the Terminal Tower site of a breeding >pair of falcons that has lived here for the last ten years, killed the >Cleveland female falcon. The Cleveland male falcon is brooding the >eggs she left. Is this just? Is it injust? From JforJames Mon Apr 1 08:32:32 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:32:32 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Tournier's take on Poetry v. Prose Message-ID: <4b.1ae706ef.29d9bb70@aol.com> Poetry & Prose One could imagine two adjacent stores, one an antique shop and the other a hardware store. The window of the hardware store boasts arrays of aluminum pots, shining with black Bakelite handles. As elegant as these pots may look, it is clear that their sole aspiration is to serve. Their raison d'?tre is the kitchen with all its harshness: the fire, the sauces, the aggressions of cleaning. Useful objects whose only worth is their utility; they wear out and will soon be thrown away and replaced. The antique dealer also displays pots. But they are made of pure copper, the surface delicately hand-hammered by an eighteenth-century craftsman. They cannot go on the fire. They are useless. They are ideas of pots more than they are true pots. It is the same with words, depending on whether they are found in the prose text or in a poem. The raison d'?tre of prose is its efficiency. Jean-Paul Sartre: "Prose is in essence utilitarian; I would define the writer of prose as man who uses words. Monsieur Jourdain used prose to ask for his slippers. Hitler to declare war on Poland." Let us add that neither one of them doubted the efficiency of his words. Monsieur Jourdain know that, having spoken, he would receive his slippers; Hitler knew that his divisions would indeed invade Poland. As soon as their effect was obtained, these orders became null and void, and disappeared before their own effectiveness. Like the hardware dealer's pots, prose rushes forth towards its own destruction. Quite different are poetry's words, always aspiring to eternity. Meter and rhyme are justified by their mnemonic virtues. For the vocation of verse is to be learned by heart and recited at any moment, for all eternity. Paul Val?ry recounts this dialogue between the artist Degas and the poet Mallarm?. "I have many ideas in my head," said Degas, "I could write a poetry too." And Mallarm? answers: "But poetry, my dear friend, is made with words, not with ideas." For it is prose that begins with an idea. Monsieur Jourdain first has the idea to put on his slippers, Hitler to invade Poland. Then they speak in accordance with their ideas. In poetry, the word is first. The poem is a chain of words linked by sonority and a certain rhythm. The ideas they carry are secondary. They follow as well as they can. To "understand" prose is to comprehend the ideas that govern it. To "understand" a poem is to be overcome by the inspiration that it radiates. In poetry, clarity and precision--values of prose--yield to emotion and evocative force. The result is that in prose one can always change the words--and in particular translate the text into another language--as long as the idea is respected--while a poem is inexorably faithful to the words that comprise it, and cannot pass from one language to another. A poem and its pretended translation into another language are but two poems on the same theme. One could express the same idea by using the concepts of content and form. One would say that in prose, content and form are easily separated, the same content expressable in many ways, while in poetry the content/form distinction cannot be made: form serves also as content; and content merges with a determined form. One might be surprised that profound thoughts are found in the writings of poets rather than philosophers. The reason for this is that poets write with the enthusiasm and power of the imagination: we have in us some seeds of science which, like flint, philosophers extract by means of reason, while poets, using the imagination, cause the sparks to ignite and burn with great intensity. Rene Descartes, Cogitationes privatae ---- This piece is from a book (literary philosophy) that explores various binaries; testing dialectics or related pairings (dogs & cats, soul & body, memory & habit, the beautiful & the sublime, etc.)... The Mirror of Ideas, by Michel Tournier, translated by Jonathan F Krell From daisyf1 Mon Apr 1 08:38:02 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:38:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall's Hair Message-ID: <20020401.083803.-447567.6.daisyf1@juno.com> Jeffrey, how's this: Donald Hall's hair floats upwards in an aery halo around his intermittently glinting pate, as if raised on invisible wires operated by the selfsame faery sylphs who attend Belinda/Arabella Fermor in Pope's Rape of the Lock. Sometimes it swirls clockwise, sometimes counter, light as the fronds that curl upward from the heads of saints and angels in the oeuvre of whatsisname, the early renaissance painter who was Michelangelo's teacher, catching divine light and doing a creditable imitation of fiddlehead ferns...wild hair, hippie hair, hair like gold, hair like straw... Daisy From bobgrumman Mon Apr 1 09:06:40 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:06:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Tournier's take on Poetry v. Prose References: <4b.1ae706ef.29d9bb70@aol.com> Message-ID: <003501c1d987$e9e69660$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> The big problem with Tournier's ideas, most of which I agree with, is that prose can be non-utilitarian (descriptive passages in most of the best novels), poetry utilitarian (an advertising jingle). In my taxonomy, I distinguish utilitarian verbal expression from aesthetic verbal expression, too, calling the first either informrature (used to inform us of facts or ideas), or advocature (used to persuade us of something), and the other literature (used to give us pleasure). Prose in literature is used to take us to pleasure rather than to something, a fact or idea, that we can use to gain pleasure, or improve ourselves. Poetry is used to BE pleasure. Literateurs announce which they are using with what I call flow-breaks, lineation being one way of inserting a flow-break. It's probably impossible to write prose that lacks any poetry, or poetry that isn't part prose. But most texts are obviously more one than the other, as most surface areas of the earth are obviously more land than water or more water than land. The distinction thus makes good sense. Since much poetry will not work unless the auditor slows down, and is looking for poetic effects, the flow-breaks are necessary. On the other hand, using them to define the difference between prose and poetry may seem arbitrary--but how else define that difference objectively? And we do need to differentiate to communicate. Why should prose and poetry be any different from cats and dogs, which people are not satisified to call by one name in spite of their having many more things in common than not? --Bob G. From rwilsnac Mon Apr 1 14:21:30 2002 From: rwilsnac (rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:21:30 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Thematic poetry and Davis McCombs Message-ID: <3.0.32.20020401112129.01a105b4@medicine.nodak.edu> I have just read Davis McCombs' collection, ULTIMA THULE, the 2000(?) winner in the Yale Younger Poets series. For those not yet familiar with this collection, it is organized around a theme of "the cave," in particular Mammoth Cave in Kentucky where McCombs was a park ranger. I'm interested in how other list members view the strategy of writing a series of poems revolving around a single central theme, rather than writing (and publishing) poems as separate, isolated creations. Is thematic writing an exception or a trend among young poets currently, and in what circumstances would list members think of it as worthwhile or misguided? An example of McCombs' work is the final poem in the book: Cave Mummies Their faces will remain lost in the shadows of the dry cane-reeds they lit and held aloft. What comes down to us is mortal, dust--- their intact hair and fingernails, their teeth worn to the gums by mussels full of sand. We've probed their last meals matted in their guts and joined a history of side-show men who blurred into the archaeologists I've met. They bend like surgeons in the lantern's light, but do they ever stop, I've wondered, stare out into the dark, and ask what brought us here, all of us, what artifact will tell the future of a longing wild and inarticulate, of a dark place loved and gotten in the blood? Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From JforJames Mon Apr 1 13:15:18 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:15:18 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Tournier's take on Poetry v. Prose Message-ID: <10f.eb62bf9.29d9fdb6@aol.com> I'm reposting this in the hope that it comes thru more clearly, less broken up...the body of this piece is Tournier's views...only the last paragraph (italics got lost) is by Descartes ... Poetry & Prose One could imagine two adjacent stores, one an antique shop and the other a hardware store. The window of the hardware store boasts arrays of aluminum pots, shining with black Bakelite handles. As elegant as these pots may look, it is clear that their sole aspiration is to serve. Their raison d'?tre is the kitchen with all its harshness: the fire, the sauces, the aggressions of cleaning. Useful objects whose only worth is their utility; they wear out and will soon be thrown away and replaced. The antique dealer also displays pots. But they are made of pure copper, the surface delicately hand-hammered by an eighteenth-century craftsman. They cannot go on the fire. They are useless. They are ideas of pots more than they are true pots. It is the same with words, depending on whether they are found in the prose text or in a poem. The raison d'?tre of prose is its efficiency. Jean-Paul Sartre: "Prose is in essence utilitarian; I would define the writer of prose as man who uses words. Monsieur Jourdain used prose to ask for his slippers. Hitler to declare war on Poland." Let us add that neither one of them doubted the efficiency of his words. Monsieur Jourdain know that, having spoken, he would receive his slippers; Hitler knew that his divisions would indeed invade Poland. As soon as their effect was obtained, these orders became null and void, and disappeared before their own effectiveness. Like the hardware dealer's pots, prose rushes forth towards its own destruction. Quite different are poetry's words, always aspiring to eternity. Meter and rhyme are justified by their mnemonic virtues. For the vocation of verse is to be learned by heart and recited at any moment, for all eternity. Paul Val?ry recounts this dialogue between the artist Degas and the poet Mallarm?. "I have many ideas in my head," said Degas, "I could write a poetry too." And Mallarm? answers: "But poetry, my dear friend, is made with words, not with ideas." For it is prose that begins with an idea. Monsieur Jourdain first has the idea to put on his slippers, Hitler to invade Poland. Then they speak in accordance with their ideas. In poetry, the word is first. The poem is a chain of words linked by sonority and a certain rhythm. The ideas they carry are secondary. They follow as well as they can. To "understand" prose is to comprehend the ideas that govern it. To "understand" a poem is to be overcome by the inspiration that it radiates. In poetry, clarity and precision--values of prose--yield to emotion and evocative force. The result is that in prose one can always change the words--and in particular translate the text into another language--as long as the idea is respected--while a poem is inexorably faithful to the words that comprise it, and cannot pass from one language to another. A poem and its pretended translation into another language are but two poems on the same theme. One could express the same idea by using the concepts of content and form. One would say that in prose, content and form are easily separated, the same content expressable in many ways, while in poetry the content/form distinction cannot be made: form serves also as content; and content merges with a determined form. _One might be surprised that profound thoughts are found in the writings of poets rather than philosophers. The reason for this is that poets write with the enthusiasm and power of the imagination: we have in us some seeds of science which, like flint, philosophers extract by means of reason, while poets, using the imagination, cause the sparks to ignite and burn with great intensity._ Rene Descartes, Cogitationes privatae ---- This piece is from a book (literary philosophy) that explores various binaries; testing dialectics or related pairings (dogs & cats, soul & body, memory & habit, the beautiful & the sublime, etc.)... The Mirror of Ideas, by Michel Tournier, translated by Jonathan F Krell From JforJames Mon Apr 1 16:47:30 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:47:30 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Cali to Choose Poet Laureate Message-ID: <138.bfc2d5b.29da2f72@aol.com> Calif. to Choose Poet Laureate Sat Mar 30, 2:01 AM ET LOS ANGELES - A veteran of the Beatnik era, a noted Chicano writer and a friend of the late jazz legend Miles Davis are finalists to become California's first official poet laureate. By July, Gov. Gray Davis (news - web sites) will nominate either Diane di Prima, Francisco Alaron or Quincy Troupe for confirmation by the state Senate. "It is a great honor to be considered," Di Prima said. "California is my country, in a way. How we see the world is unique." A committee selected the three finalists this week from among more than 50 applicants. The applicants included the 11-member writing staff for the NBC sitcom "Will & Grace." "We are the poets of the Southern California landscape," said Jeff Greenstein, one of the show's executive producers. However, their entry didn't survive the first judging round. Di Prima, 67, was born in New York but is a longtime San Francisco resident whose poems and other writings helped capture the Beat Generation. She co-founded "The Floating Bear," which featured works by William S. Burroughs and Jack Kerouac. Alaron, 48, heads the Spanish for Native Speakers program at the University of California, Davis. One of the nation's most prominent Mexican-American poets, Alaron's 10 volumes include "Snake Poems: An Aztec Invocation," which won the 1993 American Book Award. Troupe, 59, of La Jolla, is a teacher at the University of California, San Diego. His work has won at the annual Taos Poetry Circus in New Mexico. He collaborated with Miles Davis on an autobiography and has a radio show, "The Miles Davis Project." The post has existed since 1915 but never officially in state law until last year, when the Legislature approved detailed qualifications and duties. Previously, legislators named poet laureates by resolution ? and they were not necessarily recognized or even published poets. From Rsgwynn1 Mon Apr 1 17:41:56 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 17:41:56 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath's last journals turn up Message-ID: <164.b6e2947.29da3c34@cs.com> In a message dated 3/31/2002 6:56:51 PM Central Standard Time, JforJames at aol.com writes: > http://www.sylviaplathforum.com/docs/lost-journals.html > The story is a hoax. http://www.sylviaplathforum.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From FanwoodJEL Mon Apr 1 17:49:33 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:49:33 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall's Hair Message-ID: <17f.60ebfb0.29da3dfe@aol.com> Daisy, Yes. Yes, exactly. Faery sylphs. Now, would those be the self-same sylphs who fairly parted wild Jeanne Moreau from poor Oskar Werner in Jules et Jim? You remember that scene on the beach--everywhere you looked, all that great hair there? Else maybe it was the moon, *Pale in her anger, washes all the hair.* I mean air. Either way, how perfect your allusion to whatsisname, Domenico Ghirlandaio, I think, the busy Florentine who, it is said, had a brush for every shepherd's tress and also knew how to pronounce San Gimignano. But listen to me, far afield from Hall. It's his Horses I remember best. His good poem. The first straw and the last. Jeffrey In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002 8:40:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, Daisy Fried writes: > Jeffrey, how's this: Donald Hall's hair floats upwards in an aery halo > around his intermittently glinting pate, as if raised on invisible wires > operated by the selfsame faery sylphs who attend Belinda/Arabella Fermor > in Pope's Rape of the Lock. Sometimes it swirls clockwise, sometimes > counter, light as the fronds that curl upward from the heads of saints > and angels in the oeuvre of whatsisname, the early renaissance painter > who was Michelangelo's teacher, catching divine light and doing a > creditable imitation of fiddlehead ferns...wild hair, hippie hair, hair > like gold, hair like straw... > > Daisy > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Rsgwynn1 Mon Apr 1 18:28:47 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:28:47 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall's Hair Message-ID: <18b.5d0bdee.29da472f@cs.com> In a message dated 4/1/2002 4:52:17 PM Central Standard Time, FanwoodJEL at aol.com writes: > But listen to me, far afield from Hall. It's his Horses I remember best. His > good poem. The first straw and the last. > Some of us are old enough to remember his beard too. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DICK Mon Apr 1 18:50:11 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 02 18:50:11 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Hair Message-ID: <200204012350.g31NoUM27156@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> Daisy F. wrote: >>Jeffrey, how's this: Donald Hall's hair floats upwards in an aery halo >>around his intermittently glinting pate, as if raised on invisible wires >>operated by the selfsame faery sylphs who attend Belinda/Arabella Fermor >>in Pope's Rape of the Lock. Sometimes it swirls clockwise, sometimes >>counter, light as the fronds that curl upward from the heads of saints >>and angels in the oeuvre of whatsisname, the early renaissance painter >>who was Michelangelo's teacher, catching divine light and doing a >>creditable imitation of fiddlehead ferns...wild hair, hippie hair, hair >>like gold, hair like straw... >> >>Daisy >> Beautiful, Daisy! I don't see why women's hair should get all the attention. Alas, would that my own were worthy of such... but those days are (and much of the hair is) gone. Richard From odysseus34 Mon Apr 1 22:43:17 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:43:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin References: <156.b81558c.29d8f016@aol.com> <3CA7FA3A.FE8FEC6C@earthlink.net> <001a01c1d979$34c0b800$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Message-ID: <3CA928D1.68DE1F4E@earthlink.net> Bob Grumman wrote: > > (Whether anyone, Washington Post writer or not, likes Lifshin as a poet, > why > > does the profile have to start off so fixated on her physical appearance? > > Sigh.) > > Because nothing can establish a person quickly in the mind better than his > personal appearance? Well, I doubt the writer of a profile on Mark Strand would gush on and on about his Clint Eastwoodian looks and call him the Marauding Prince of Poetry, or whatever. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From odysseus34 Mon Apr 1 22:49:45 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:49:45 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath's last journals turn up References: <164.b6e2947.29da3c34@cs.com> Message-ID: <3CA92A56.3E1A4221@earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Tue Apr 2 05:27:26 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 05:27:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin References: <156.b81558c.29d8f016@aol.com> <3CA7FA3A.FE8FEC6C@earthlink.net> <001a01c1d979$34c0b800$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> <3CA928D1.68DE1F4E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002f01c1da30$fca45cc0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> > Well, I doubt the writer of a profile on Mark Strand would gush on and on about > his Clint Eastwoodian looks and call him the Marauding Prince of Poetry, or > whatever. I've seen these kinds of profiles on males that started off with descriptions of what they looked like, especially when the male had an appearance as striking as Lifshin seems to have. Especially, too, if the looks go with the character, as in Lifshin's case. I rather doubt that Strand's appearance is quite as startling as Lifshin's. And why would anyone call so conventional a second-rate poet as he a "marouding prince?" --Bob G. From lcrespi Tue Apr 2 06:16:37 2002 From: lcrespi (Linda Crespi) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 03:16:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020402111637.54312.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> George Simmers at Snakeskin has asked me to pass on the message that the zine's June number will be a special about crime. You don't need to be a criminal to contribute. Just send in your poems about housebreaking or throat-cutting or whatever, I guess. You can find full details at www.snakeskin.org.uk The Snakeskin site has had server troubles lately. The service provider went bonkers or something. The Crespi page seems to be offline at the moment, but I SHALL RETURN! Linda The Crespi Page is at: http://snakeskin.org.uk/crespi.htm New work appears usually in Snakeskin Webzine: http://snakeskin.org.uk --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Tue Apr 2 10:58:29 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:58:29 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Erich Fried, "The Measures Taken" Message-ID: The Measures Taken The lazy are slaughtered the world grows industrious The ugly are slaughtered the world grows beautiful The foolish are slaughtered the world grows wise The sick are slaughtered the world grows healthy The sad are slaughtered the world grows merry The old are slaughtered the world grows young The enemies are slaughtered the world grows friendly The wicked are slaughtered the world grows good. --Erich Fried (tr. Michael Hamburger) Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From paul.lake Tue Apr 2 11:46:20 2002 From: paul.lake (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 10:46:20 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint Message-ID: Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. The opening paragraph: "April 2, 2002 ?|? April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today than patchouli, say, or lint." The link: http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/04/02/poetry/index.html Paul Lake From GrahamD Tue Apr 2 11:55:40 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:55:40 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Lint Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D8C@mail.ripon.edu> I'll read this story, of course, but why do I have the feeling I've already read it? Perhaps because I have? Yes, it's National Lament-the-Sad-State-of-Poetry Month! Sigh. . . . Any why is it that few articles seem to be written pointing out how contemporary opera, sculpture, playwriting, or dance do not impact largely on the polis? David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Paul Lake > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2002 10:46 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint > > Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. > The opening paragraph: > > "April 2, 2002 | April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best > efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as > Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip > on > the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today > than patchouli, say, or lint." > > The link: > > http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/04/02/poetry/index.html > > > > Paul Lake > > From CobbCoStudioArts Tue Apr 2 11:57:52 2002 From: CobbCoStudioArts (Robert R.Cobb) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:57:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lifshin Message-ID: <20020402165752.433A42757@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From alphavil Tue Apr 2 12:13:43 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:13:43 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint References: Message-ID: <3CA9E6C7.ECB6A854@ix.netcom.com> To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've taken to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an 'epistemological engineer'. CP Paul Lake wrote: > Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. > The opening paragraph: > > "April 2, 2002 | April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best > efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as > Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on > the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today > than patchouli, say, or lint." > > The link: > > http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/04/02/poetry/index.html > > Paul Lake > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From rwilsnac Tue Apr 2 14:25:04 2002 From: rwilsnac (rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:25:04 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Hair Message-ID: <3.0.32.20020402112502.00dffb30@medicine.nodak.edu> >I don't see why women's hair should get all the attention. > >Alas, would that my own were worthy of such... but those days are (and >much of the hair is) gone. >Richard If we seek to celebrate the poetic importance of male hair: Prufrock worried about whether to part his hair behind... Richard W. Wilsnack rwilsnac at medicine.nodak.edu From halvard Tue Apr 2 12:32:06 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:32:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint In-Reply-To: <3CA9E6C7.ECB6A854@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: { To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've taken { to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an { 'epistemological engineer'. CP Auden, I've heard, would tell folks he was a civil engineer. At least that didn't stop the conversation entirely, I guess. Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From alphavil Tue Apr 2 12:35:45 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:35:45 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint References: Message-ID: <3CA9EBF0.CEC13324@ix.netcom.com> Also, I've discovered with poetry that anger at your work is far more sincere (and valuable) than any praise given for it---another indication of the state of the art. CP Halvard Johnson wrote: > { To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've taken > { to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an > { 'epistemological engineer'. CP > > Auden, I've heard, would tell folks he was a civil engineer. At least that didn't > stop the conversation entirely, I guess. > > Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard at earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames Tue Apr 2 13:16:09 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:16:09 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint Message-ID: In a message dated 4/2/02 11:51:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, paul.lake at mail.atu.edu writes: > poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on > the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today > than patchouli, say, or lint." > Lint is used in fine paper-making. Glancing thru a USA Today or a TV Guide, I'm often grateful that poetry is not "mass." Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcus Tue Apr 2 13:18:58 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:18:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: Lint In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D8C@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CA9AFC2.28656.669ABB@localhost> > Any why is it that few articles seem to be written pointing out how > contemporary opera, sculpture, playwriting, or dance do not impact largely > on the polis? Because such arts have so little impact on the polis that even journalists desperate for topics find it hard to write the articles. The question isn't why are there so few articles about the arts, but rather why the artists have such little impact. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From paul.lake Tue Apr 2 13:23:53 2002 From: paul.lake (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:23:53 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint In-Reply-To: <3CA9E6C7.ECB6A854@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: on 4/2/02 11:13 AM, R.Gancie/C.Parcelli at alphavil at ix.netcom.com wrote: > To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've taken > to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an > 'epistemological engineer'. CP > > Paul Lake wrote: > >> Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. >> The opening paragraph: >> >> "April 2, 2002 | April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best >> efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as >> Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on >> the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today >> than patchouli, say, or lint." >> >> The link: >> >> http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/04/02/poetry/index.html >> >> Paul Lake >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New-Poetry mailing list >> New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >> http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > It is a very strange thing to tell people you're a poet. I may have to go the pocket protector route too, it's so awkward. Paul Lake From paul.lake Tue Apr 2 13:25:22 2002 From: paul.lake (Paul Lake) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:25:22 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 4/2/02 11:32 AM, Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net wrote: > > > { To avoid the social awkardness attached to admitting you're a poet, I've > taken > { to wearing a veil or a pocket protector and telling people I'm an > { 'epistemological engineer'. CP > > Auden, I've heard, would tell folks he was a civil engineer. At least that > didn't > stop the conversation entirely, I guess. > > Hal "Flotsam, please, and a side order of jetsam." > > Halvard Johnson > =============== > email: halvard at earthlink.net > website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > I heard just the opposite somewhere--that Auden had his occupation on his passport or whatever listed as "poet," which provoked people to ask what he did for a living. Paul Lake From marcus Tue Apr 2 14:20:04 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:20:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Amazing photos of towboat on river In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3CA9BE14.9744.9E8AFB@localhost> There's got to be a poem in this! http://koti.mbnet.fi/~soldier/towboat.htm Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From GrahamD Tue Apr 2 17:27:54 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 16:27:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D90@mail.ripon.edu> Well, nice to know what you feel "the" question is, but I was interested in the one I asked. I'll spell it out, in case I wasn't clear. It seems highly curious to me that poetry, among all the arts (and apart from other likely topics) is so often singled out as the stick by which middlebrow pundits (a) beat the Philistines over the head for their lack of appreciation for the finer things; or (b) beat the Elitists over the head for their lack of the common touch. (B) occurs more often than (A), perhaps-- in the form of the "poetry has lost its audience" yawner. . . . I was just wondering why poetry seems so frequently to be the lightning rod. Not literary fiction, not dance, not sculpture, not architecture, not playwriting, etc. As I think Donald Hall pointed out long ago, somebody writes a version of the "Can Poetry Matter?" essay every few years at least. One could do a rather thick anthology of them by this point. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Marcus Bales > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2002 12:18 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] RE: Lint > > > Any why is it that few articles seem to be written pointing out how > > contemporary opera, sculpture, playwriting, or dance do not impact > largely > > on the polis? > > Because such arts have so little impact on the polis that even > journalists desperate for topics find it hard to write the articles. The > question isn't why are there so few articles about the arts, but > rather why the artists have such little impact. > > > > Marcus Bales > > From JforJames Tue Apr 2 17:40:40 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:40:40 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Amazing photos of towboat on river Message-ID: <26.25900373.29db8d68@aol.com> > http://koti.mbnet.fi/~soldier/towboat.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Tue Apr 2 17:56:39 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:56:39 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Amazing photos of towboat on river Message-ID: <49.1b20dc6d.29db9127@aol.com> apologies, I was sending or trying to send that amusing url to an insurance underwriter I know who works in watercraft coverage.... Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs in some fashion. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpjones Tue Apr 2 18:25:43 2002 From: jpjones (Jill Jones) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:25:43 +1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Amazing photos of towboat on river In-Reply-To: <49.1b20dc6d.29db9127@aol.com> Message-ID: on 3/4/02 8:56 AM, JforJames at aol.com at JforJames at aol.com wrote: apologies, I was sending or trying to send that amusing url to an insurance underwriter I know who works in watercraft coverage.... Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs in some fashion. Finnegan Something of mine, which was close to hand: Postcards and snapshots I A second hand shuffles you forward. A map blocks out where you may want to be, shipping you, your mercantile heart, with cargo ... But sometimes it is really a postcard, and you step out onto a sunset beach where fishermen and their dogs like children, play among thick ropes like snakes. The boat new caulked, the paint still fresh. Open and unalarmed, no fear of cameras, no wary armour layered on the eyes, the beach fisher with his solid boots striding through a knowledge of tides, heaving a line into a known and gathering dark ? you conforming to sand you hope no-one will stop. II Those instamatic moments stay in place. You flip over the layers in your cells once again. Their perfection passed unnoticed mostly until they?d gone into your great book of recall, which fattens with a certain weight of time, yet thins when you try to peer with sight shorter than the breath of each day?s work. Still, your intelligence shows itself, though scared to admit the sun did shine against the wall, and a path lead along the cliff above the sea, thinking of a concerto, Bach?s Double Violin maybe. You walked with someone, and you hoped. The sea below was flat and green, and dolphins arched through the surface in their shadowy mass. It all wrestles now with your fading depth of sight. Cheers, Jill _________________________________ Jill Jones 50 Ruby Street Marrickville NSW 2204 AUSTRALIA jpjones at ihug.com.au http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jpjones -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat Tue Apr 2 22:07:53 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:07:53 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D90@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <20020402190753.004352@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Graham, David wrote: >I was just wondering why poetry seems so frequently to be the lightning rod. >Not literary fiction, not dance, not sculpture, not architecture, not >playwriting, etc. They're just wondering why we won't go away, David. We're an affront to capitalism, market demographics, and everything else the culture holds dear. Keep up the good work. Wendy From JforJames Tue Apr 2 20:47:08 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:47:08 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] The American Hughes Message-ID: <5b.25877172.29dbb91c@aol.com> A series of events will be commemorating the centenary of Hughes's birth, including: --The Twentieth-Century Masters Tribute To Langston Hughes, featuring actors Ossie Davis, Ruby Dee, saxophonist Joshua Redman, and poet Sonia Sanchez at Town Hall in New York City on April 30 at 8:00 p.m --The designation of today, April 2, by the Langston Hughes National Poetry Project, the Academy of American Poets and the National Council of Teachers of English as Langston Hughes Poetry Day. Watch for Hughes events happening in your own local area. From JforJames Tue Apr 2 20:52:24 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:52:24 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Norton Poets Message-ID: <50.93f90b7.29dbba58@aol.com> Norton Poets Online Newsletter Date: 4/2/02 9:38:25 AM Eastern Standard Time From: nvictor at WWNORTON.com (Victor, Nomi) To: poetry at wwnorton.biglist.com ('poetry at wwnorton.biglist.com') http://www.nortonpoets.com ----------- Greetings in the first week of National Poetry Month! What will you be doing to celebrate? Attending a poetry reading? Visit our website to find out which Norton poets are reading near you. And for a list of official National Poetry Month sponsored events, check in at the Academy of American Poets website: http://www.poets.org. If you're the sort who still has Christmas lights up, we've got a great way to mark the new season: later this week we'll be posting six printable poetry mini-posters, for your refrigerator door, cubicle wall, or classroom bulletin board. Brighten up your surroundings with poems from Linda Pastan, Gerald Stern, Peter Sacks, April Bernard, Joy Harjo, and Molly Peacock. Speaking of the poets mentioned above, our spring season here at Norton features new collections from all six, and much more besides. **New this month** Linda Pastan, The Last Uncle Gerald Stern, American Sonnets and a first novel by poet James Lasdun Visit the site to learn more! **New in the Poet's Workshop-a double billing for National Poetry Month** Not for Cowards: On Getting Older by Linda Pastan and later this month: Thoughts on the Sonnet by Gerald Stern **Poem of the Month: "Egg" by Gerald Stern** And I have been a mother to geese and what not, I hired forty-five poets in Pennsylvania and sent them to the northern and western reaches after I trained them at Lewisburg during the summer institute and visited the schools and traveled in an old Toyota in all the sixty-seven counties and lived in a hotel in Harrisburg three days a week and talked to them about love and money and teaching and poetry; and I was head of a teachers' union and I was a chair, as we say, and I bought the food for my own family and I did the Band-Aids, and I gave advice in three or four cities, and there was a small goose who followed me everywhere, honking with love, and I was exhausted; I hated him, always on top of me--I wanted to kick him--my third child!-- He was a machine, food on one end, shit on the other--and there was an egg I had to break with a hammer, I paid a quarter for it, the omelette was orange, and huge, I was so hungry then. (c) 2002 by Gerald Stern From JforJames Tue Apr 2 21:00:06 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:00:06 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Plath's last journals turn up Message-ID: In a message dated 4/1/02 5:43:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rsgwynn1 at cs.com writes: << The story is a hoax. http://www.sylviaplathforum.com/ >> ooops. ouch. etc. Finnegan From jholmes Tue Apr 2 22:11:58 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 20:11:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Thematic Poetry and Davis McCombs Message-ID: Hello, Richard--nice to meet you. >> I'm interested in how other list members view the strategy of writing a series of poems revolving around a single central theme, rather than writing (and publishing) poems as separate, isolated creations. Is thematic writing an exception or a trend among young poets currently, and in what circumstances would list members think of it as worthwhile or misguided? << I've got lots of thoughts on this--the first one being that I wouldn't think of it as a "strategy." A strategy for what? Getting published? Continuing to write a poem a day? "Strategy" makes me think you're thinking of the act of writing poetry as some kind of campaign. A poem as a "separate, isolated creation" seems to be the norm, rather than sequenced poems. It's such a poem that's made for anthologies and poetry journals, whereas an unwieldy book-length sequence has to languish unread until a kindly publisher comes along. But, that said, M.L. Rosenthal & Sally Gall declared, in their book THE MODERN POETIC SEQUENCE, that the sequence was the dominant modern form. And just looking at more recent books, it's clearly still popular: anything by Louise Gluck; book length sonnet sequences by Marilyn Hacker, Ellen Bryant Voigt, and Mark Jarman; "novels in verse" like Anne Carson's AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF RED; Andrew Hudgins' AFTER THE LOST WAR; obsessive books like Christine Hume's wonderful MUSCA DOMESTICA or Joe Wenderoth's LETTERS TO WENDY'S, &, it sounds like, McCombs's. So I think it's fair to say this isn't a young poets' patent; it's a pretty established fixture on the poetry scene. I see a fairly large number of manuscripts in the course of a year, and there are just as many bad "thematic" ones as there are bad ones made up of "separate, isolated" poems. There's also the problem of having a theme that's either overdone (dealing with cancer, say) or kind of weird (cartoons of the 1960s -- poems, yes, but 68 pages of them?). I speak as someone currently at work on a book-length sequence, who's suddenly aware of trying to explain to a promotion & tenure committee why there aren't any journal publications for a few years... Anyway, what's your take? worthwhile or misguided? Obviously, I think it's worthwhile--I'm masochistic, but not THAT bad. Janet From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 2 22:47:52 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:47:52 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: <11a.eac0fd1.29dbd568@cs.com> In a message dated 4/2/2002 4:29:25 PM Central Standard Time, GrahamD at Mail.Ripon.EDU writes: > It seems highly curious to me > that poetry, among all the arts (and apart from other likely topics) is so > often singled out as the stick by which middlebrow pundits > > (a) beat the Philistines over the head for their lack of appreciation > for the finer things; or > (b) beat the Elitists over the head for their lack of the common touch. > > I don't think so. The visual arts have come in for much more of this over the years, witness the elephant-turd Madonna in Brooklyn (or Mapplethorpe) controversies. Poetry is the poor step-child here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 2 22:49:03 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:49:03 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: <176.61bed68.29dbd5af@cs.com> In a message dated 4/2/2002 4:29:25 PM Central Standard Time, GrahamD at Mail.Ripon.EDU writes: > > I was just wondering why poetry seems so frequently to be the lightning rod. > Not literary fiction, not dance, not sculpture, not architecture, not > playwriting, etc. > As far as literature is concerned, both fiction and drama are still tied to a viable market economy. Poetry is not. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Tue Apr 2 23:25:23 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:25:23 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: <200204030423.g334N8681783@mx1.mx.voyager.net> Well, publicly funded art (and the politics thereof) is one thing, but I'm still brooding over another thing. Which is: where are all the essays in places like *Atlantic Monthly* titled "Can Sculpture Matter?* and talking in nostalgic terms about the good old days when equestrian statues of G. Washington went up in small town squares across the land? It's true that items like "Piss Christ" get the op-ed writers in a lather, yes. Good point. Still seems to me, though, that we haven't seen the equivalent of "Who Killed Poetry?" and "Can Poetry Matter" essays written about other arts--not in the same proportion, anyway. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I definitely am *tired* of the WKP/CPM? genre--and of being informed so relentlessly by folks who generally don't read poetry that poetry is marginal in our culture. I mean, is that a dog-bites-man story or what? ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] More Lint Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2002, 9:47 PM In a message dated 4/2/2002 4:29:25 PM Central Standard Time, GrahamD at Mail.Ripon.EDU writes: It seems highly curious to me that poetry, among all the arts (and apart from other likely topics) is so often singled out as the stick by which middlebrow pundits (a) beat the Philistines over the head for their lack of appreciation for the finer things; or (b) beat the Elitists over the head for their lack of the common touch. I don't think so. The visual arts have come in for much more of this over the years, witness the elephant-turd Madonna in Brooklyn (or Mapplethorpe) controversies. Poetry is the poor step-child here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 2 23:58:37 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 23:58:37 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] More Lint Message-ID: In a message dated 4/2/2002 10:25:38 PM Central Standard Time, grahamd at mail.ripon.edu writes: > Well, publicly funded art (and the politics thereof) is one thing, but I'm > still brooding over another thing. Which is: where are all the essays in > places like *Atlantic Monthly* titled "Can Sculpture Matter?* and talking > in nostalgic terms about the good old days when equestrian statues of G. > Washington went up in small town squares across the land? > But these are primarily literary magazines, David. And what about Norman Rockwell in the Gugenheim? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Edward.Byrne Wed Apr 3 01:45:58 2002 From: Edward.Byrne (Edward Byrne) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 00:45:58 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Thematic Poetry and Davis McCombs Message-ID: <1017816358.smmsdV1.1.2@pluto.valpo.edu> Since my latest publication, just released in March, is a book-length thematic sequence, you can guess I believe, as Janet Holmes has said, such works can be "worthwhile." Although all my previous books were filled with individual poems sometimes thematically connected within sections, I had always wanted to publish a longer book-length sequence. In one of my first books I did have a poem that had 23 short sections, and about two years ago I published a long poem that contained 20 sections in a journal. This poem will probably be included in my next book. However, until my new collection, _Tidal Air_, I did not have the opportunity to develop and publish a book-length sequence. I was fortunate that I had an encouraging publisher who saw the sequence in development, when I was only thinking of the possibility of a chapbook version for publication, and asked to release the book-length version. The collection is actually a book-length diptych, two complementary poems, each with a sequence of 12-sections, almost all ranging from two to four pages apiece. Ever since I first started writing poetry I have been fascinated by longer works of poetry written in the form of a sequence. One of my areas of study for my Ph.D. was Shakespeare's Sonnets and the Elizabethan Sonnet Sequence. I also found the M.L. Rosenthal & Sally Gall book on the Modern Poetic Sequence, mentioned by Janet, very persuasive. I remember, as an undergraduate, attending a Galway Kinnell poetry reading of the entire _Book of Nightmares_ and wanting someday to publish something similar. I like very much reading poetry sequences, some longer and some shorter, such as the ones mentioned by Janet or others, like Robert Penn Warren's _Audobon_ or Derek Walcott's sequences, just to name a couple. Even though I have the highest regard for Eliot's _The Waste Land_, I think _Four Quartets_ is a more interesting poem to read. I consider Whitman's "Song of Myself" the sequence that gave birth to American poetry -- talk about someone setting "a trend." Indeed didn't Whitman see all his poetry as one long sequence gathered under the title _Leaves of Grass_? Bernardine Evaristo just sent me a copy of her 250-page verse novel, _The Emperor's Babe_, written in a the form of a sequence of poems, and I'm enjoying it. I also like the McCombs book you mention. On the other hand, I love reading and writing wonderful "separate, isolated creations" as well. --Edward Byrne > Richard W. Wilsnack wrote: > I'm interested in how other list members view the strategy of writing > a series of poems revolving around a single central theme, rather than > writing (and publishing) poems as separate, isolated creations. Is > thematic writing an exception or a trend among young poets currently, > and in what circumstances would list members think of it as worthwhile > or misguided? -------------------------------------------------- Edward Byrne Department of English 322 Huegli Hall Valparaiso University Valparaiso, IN 46383-6493 E-mail: edward.byrne at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/home/faculty/ebyrne/homepage/ Editor, Valparaiso Poetry Review E-mail: vpr at valpo.edu http://www.valpo.edu/english/vpr/ Office Phone: (219) 464-5278 Fax: (219) 464-5511 -------------------------------------------------- From odysseus34 Wed Apr 3 01:18:56 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 23:18:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lint References: Message-ID: <3CAA9ECD.6D27BBF6@earthlink.net> Actually, especially since the author is a poet, this seems more like one of Salon's short satiric pieces. I didn't think she was so much writing a WKP/CPM lament, as mocking modern culture: "So what did people do before 'Chicken Soup for the Cro-Magnon Soul' was around? What do you think they did? They turned to poetry." Moira Russell Seattle, WA Paul Lake wrote: > Here's an article in today's salon about the place of poetry in society. > The opening paragraph: > > "April 2, 2002 ?|? April is National Poetry Month, yet despite the best > efforts of poet laureates, poetry slammers and celebrity authors such as > Jewel and Jimmy Carter, poetry remains, as it has for years, a tiny blip on > the screen of American consciousness, less important to how we live today > than patchouli, say, or lint." From dbarone Wed Apr 3 07:43:52 2002 From: dbarone (dbarone) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:43:52 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] lint - book recommendation Message-ID: <0D9D00A18A08ED47875BD976E134249008D33D@sjcmail.sjc.edu> Regarding poetry as lint and the difficulties in US of saying, yes, I am a poet: I recommend Lisa Steinman's book Made in America. In this book (I think it was published Yale UP in 1988) she talks about M Moore, W Stevens, and WC Williams and how they justified being a poet in the worlds in which they lived. I remember, too, Williams end to "The Desert Music" -- something like -- "I am a poet! I am. I am. And I am not ashamed." Dennis Barone From DICK Wed Apr 3 08:45:15 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 02 08:45:15 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] poems about pictures Message-ID: <200204031345.g33DjZM24388@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> >>Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post >>poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs >>in some fashion. >>Finnegan Poet's Photo (from Swarm dustjacket) Soulful eyebrows, coalful eyes, O Jorie you penetrate me so, your spectral mane aflow, your angled cheek and jaw bones nobler than Geronimo, your lips, at rest, that would devour stalagmites and mostly your rosary necklace in repose on your vanished bosom. From halvard Wed Apr 3 09:15:13 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:15:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] "Paris in Old Photographs" In-Reply-To: <49.1b20dc6d.29db9127@aol.com> Message-ID: > Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post > poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs > in some fashion. > Finnegan Paris in Old Photographs 1. The priests . . . never more lovely than in autumn. Bulky cows passed to and fro. Slowly, they were being poisoned. Their lilac flanks brought to mind your eyes. Their nose rings. Rapists seem so pretty in the fall, my life so poisoned by your eyes. Schoolkids wrassle in the streets, and one plays the mouth organ. Daughters and their daughters flap about, battling both the flowers and the wind. The choirmaster sings sweetly, though quite slowly, among abandoned cows flourishing along our forever unorthodox streets. 2. Don't worry about my corpse. Let it lie where it falls. Or hang me from a low branch of that tree, where children can pelt me with stones. Toss me over the parapet, or stretch me out on your grand piano. Throw all my clothes away, give all my books to the poor. Shove me down a hillside. Turn your back and walk away. Quick! Before I stop rolling. Insinuate your way into the night air, into the heart of a cat. The moment you vanish, something heavy falls like a rock to the sea. 3. Old women hunch over eggs at their tables, using their last ounce of strength to crack open a shell; autumn rendezvous go on all around them and they fail to glance up. Inky clouds envelop them. 4. I'll name names now. That desert's name is Mouse, he has a dark voice. No one ever calls him to the door. The castle is called Foot. In perpetual shadow it thrives. Anything we want to destroy--your form, your memory--we put in there. The true name of war is Mercy, taking for granted all those liberties we've never been fully apprised of--in our hands, in the ear of a sow who might be our mother. --Halvard Johnson Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From jvcervantes Wed Apr 3 11:05:00 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:05:00 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] photo poems References: Message-ID: <3CAB282B.34C0B2A4@earthlink.net> > > Not to waste another post, let me invite you all to post > > poems (or just titles of poems) that are based on photographs > > in some fashion. > > Finnegan ends with the photo but began because of the photo: 36th Birthday He's the boy jumping a fence, vaulting for his life, a man's throw felt in the stone that strikes his ankle, somehow attached to the bone, hitting again as if the hand were there. As a man, he would measure the fence, maybe try it again, reddening as that same ankle struck the boards. What was wheelwell then? Gravel spewing. What damage the man could not afford, there, and throw a stone? His wife does not hear him on the bluff, where a large cumulus opens and a portion of the water becomes mirror, blanking out a small boat, eating at the edges of a larger boat. Here's a candid photo of his wife, reading under a cat that is asleep, one of a woman whispering behind her hand into the ear of another woman, an older photo of a child whose bare hand is in the mother's gloved one, which is raised as if to receive a falcon. Everyone looks away. It is here, traveling before the averted faces, that the stone hits and the sun blinds. Everyone looked away. He turned to see that hand. - James Cervantes James Cervantes: Salt River Review: Poetserv: Homepage: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reading itinerary: From cvoisine Wed Apr 3 12:41:18 2002 From: cvoisine (NMSU) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 09:41:18 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #741 - 15 msgs In-Reply-To: <200204030146.g331k2Q27976@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: To all: I have lately given up my study of lint (sorry Salon) and become especially interested in finding good essays/criticism about the lyric voice. I am reading some of Frank O'Hara's prose and few other contemporary sources (orr and others). Any ideas? No source too academic or wacky. Connie Voisine From GrahamD Wed Apr 3 12:41:54 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:41:54 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Lyric Voice Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86D96@mail.ripon.edu> Ellen Voigt's book *The Flexible Lyric* (U Georgia) is one of the best things I've read in a good while. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: NMSU > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2002 11:41 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #741 - 15 msgs > > To all: > > I have lately given up my study of lint (sorry Salon) and become > especially > interested in finding good essays/criticism about the lyric voice. I am > reading some of Frank O'Hara's prose and few other contemporary sources > (orr > and others). Any ideas? No source too academic or wacky. > > Connie Voisine > > From marcus Wed Apr 3 12:52:54 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:52:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #741 - 15 msgs In-Reply-To: References: <200204030146.g331k2Q27976@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3CAAFB26.8419.AB8E01@localhost> > To all: > I have lately given up my study of lint (sorry Salon) and become especially > interested in finding good essays/criticism about the lyric voice. I am > reading some of Frank O'Hara's prose and few other contemporary sources (orr > and others). Any ideas? No source too academic or wacky. > Connie Voisine Have you tried Anne Finch's work? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From jholmes Wed Apr 3 12:58:18 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 10:58:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] lyric voice Message-ID: Connie, I've been enjoying Susan Stewart's POETRY AND THE SENSES, which is fairly new. There is also some discussion of Armantrout's use of the lyric in A WILD SALIENCE, particularly in Hejinian's interview. Also, do you know Allen Grossman's SUMMA LYRICA? It's brilliant, and in his book with Mark Halliday, THE SIGHTED SINGER. Janet From halvard Wed Apr 3 13:02:13 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:02:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: James Tate, "Little Poem with Argyle Socks" Message-ID: Little Poem with Argyle Socks Behind every great man there sits a rat. And behind every great rat, there's a flea. Beside the flea there is an encyclopedia. Every now and then the flea sneezes, looks up, and flies into action, reorganizing history. The rat says, "God, I *hate* irony." To which the great man replies, "Now now now, darling, drink your tea." --James Tate Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From jholmes Wed Apr 3 13:20:05 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:20:05 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest Message-ID: Hey, no fair! I get this listserve's messages in digest form, and received only the first six of the eleven messages listed below. What gives? Also, those of you who include the entire chain of correspondence in your replies make these digests incredibly repetitive. I wonder whether the excessive length of these individual messages messes up the digests? Jim, do you know? Janet Today's Topics: 1. Norton Poets (JforJames at aol.com) 2. Re: Plath's last journals turn up (JforJames at aol.com) 3. Re: Thematic Poetry and Davis McCombs (Janet Holmes) 4. Re: More Lint (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) 5. Re: More Lint (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) 6. More Lint (David Graham) 7. Re: More Lint (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) 8. Re: Thematic Poetry and Davis McCombs (Edward Byrne) 9. Re: Lint (odysseus34) 10. lint - book recommendation (dbarone) 11. poems about pictures (DICK at watson.ibm.com) From trbell Wed Apr 3 17:40:02 2002 From: trbell (trbell at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:40:02 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest References: Message-ID: <007e01c1db60$7e7dc6c0$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> there's got to be a better way of handling mail messages on lists. Maybe soon someone will come up with abetter way of handling them as we soon will be paying for sending emails. I personally like to get the whole thread when I get a message just as if it wasa reply posted on a bb. it helps my mind organize all the info and it makes it easier to store if it's worth saving. It's a fairly common occurence that people join lists because they are interested in a topic and then quit when they get too many messages. it's almost like they feel a moral obligation to read them all rather than just delete? tom bell From Rsgwynn1 Wed Apr 3 13:53:30 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:53:30 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #741 - 15 msgs Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/2002 11:55:27 AM Central Standard Time, marcus at designerglass.com writes: > Have you tried Anne Finch's work? > I have an online interview with Annie Finch soon to appear at www.ablemuse.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cstroffo Wed Apr 3 17:39:05 2002 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:39:05 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] lint - book recommendation References: <0D9D00A18A08ED47875BD976E134249008D33D@sjcmail.sjc.edu> Message-ID: <3CAB8489.5F6EA4B4@earthlink.net> that always sounded too much like Walter Mondale's " I am a real Democrat. I am. I am" (sort of like Popeye on prozac....) for me, preferable is Laura Riding's ending to "When Love Becomes Words" "the warm accusation of being poets." CS dbarone wrote: > Regarding poetry as lint and the difficulties in US of saying, yes, I am a > poet: I recommend Lisa Steinman's book Made in America. In this book (I > think it was published Yale UP in 1988) she talks about M Moore, W Stevens, > and WC Williams and how they justified being a poet in the worlds in which > they lived. I remember, too, Williams end to "The Desert Music" -- > something like -- "I am a poet! I am. I am. And I am not ashamed." > > Dennis Barone > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards Thu Apr 4 01:13:13 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:13:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime References: <20020402111637.54312.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014101c1db9f$ce0e2100$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> At the Snakeskin site, there's a message that says for details on the crime issue, please click here, but there's no place to click. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Crespi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime George Simmers at Snakeskin has asked me to pass on the message that the zine's June number will be a special about crime. You don't need to be a criminal to contribute. Just send in your poems about housebreaking or throat-cutting or whatever, I guess. You can find full details at www.snakeskin.org.uk The Snakeskin site has had server troubles lately. The service provider went bonkers or something. The Crespi page seems to be offline at the moment, but I SHALL RETURN! Linda The Crespi Page is at: http://snakeskin.org.uk/crespi.htm New work appears usually in Snakeskin Webzine: http://snakeskin.org.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards Thu Apr 4 01:15:58 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 01:15:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] tel aviv journal References: <20020402111637.54312.qmail@web13907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014b01c1dba0$3023fe00$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Listmember Karen Alkalay-Gut, who lives in Tel Aviv, has started recording her thoughts and observations on the dreadful war that swirls around her, in an online journal that's devastating, thoughtful, heartfelt, and miraculously observed. Look for it at http://geocities.com/alkalay_gut/ Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Thu Apr 4 08:35:47 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:35:47 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime In-Reply-To: <014101c1db9f$ce0e2100$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Message-ID: Click "here," Tad. Let your cursor do the walking. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard At the Snakeskin site, there's a message that says for details on the crime issue, please click here, but there's no place to click. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: Linda Crespi To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 6:16 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Snakeskin Crime George Simmers at Snakeskin has asked me to pass on the message that the zine's June number will be a special about crime. You don't need to be a criminal to contribute. Just send in your poems about housebreaking or throat-cutting or whatever, I guess. You can find full details at www.snakeskin.org.uk The Snakeskin site has had server troubles lately. The service provider went bonkers or something. The Crespi page seems to be offline at the moment, but I SHALL RETURN! Linda The Crespi Page is at: http://snakeskin.org.uk/crespi.htm New work appears usually in Snakeskin Webzine: http://snakeskin.org.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Thu Apr 4 08:58:31 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:58:31 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest & Avoiding Repeated Messages Message-ID: <106.fd2ec57.29ddb607@aol.com> In a message dated 4/3/02 1:19:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, jholmes at boisestate.edu writes: > no fair! I get this listserve's messages in digest form, and > received only the first six of the eleven messages listed below. What > gives? > > Also, those of you who include the entire chain of correspondence in > your replies make these digests incredibly repetitive. I wonder whether > the excessive length of these individual messages messes up the digests? > Jim, do you know? > Janet, I'll look into this. Could it be that your email system/software is automatically truncating the digest due to its length? Avoiding Repeatied Messages... Here's a tip that could help cut down on the length of some posts: If you are using Outlook Express, here's a way to avoid sending the original message back to the list along with your reply: Select Tools, then Options, then the Send tab. Under Send, uncheck the box that says "Include message in reply" Other e-mail programs probably have similar options, listed under Preferences or some similar topic. Also, if you choose Plain text rather than HTML text, some of the strange formatting might also be eliminated. Jim F From JforJames Thu Apr 4 09:13:42 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:13:42 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] April 1: Peter Davison Message-ID: April 1: Peter Davison +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A warm welcome to you -- today begins the fourth annual National Poetry Month Knopf Poem-a-Day email series. Over the course of April we hope to introduce you to a wide range of poems published by the Knopf Publishing Group--from new translations of Sappho to poems by Pultizer Prize-winners Mark Strand, Philip Levine, Mona Van Duyn, and Wallace Stevens. Poetry can expand the written and spoken word's ability, own own ability, to make meaning. It can breathe words sparked and renewed back into a common language. We hope that the words of these poems created in or translated into English will spring off your computer screen into your life and there resonate and grow. Enjoy, and please log on to the Knopf Poetry Forum to share your thoughts about the poems with the thousands of other readers who will be receiving them by email throughout the month: http://www.knopfpoetry.com/forum/ We begin with a poem from Peter Davison, Poetry Editor of the Atlantic Monthly and longtime resident of the Boston area. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ruffed Grouse The buds let fly a pungent spring flavor, and the sunlight fanned across the bare ground for unperching. Restlessness crept in, a necklace around the male?s long neck, below where his beak would open to sing, if he were the kind to sing. His back gathered itself to lengthen and widen. He needed more room now and soon found it in a clearing he had been keeping his eye on, with a hollow log planted at one edge. Now he had to wait only a day or two until something in the air called, Time! before he?d start to grow. His clawed toes prepared to tick on the leaves, his strut to shorten. His hidden shoulders would soon begin their burgeoning, beyond wings, into the great hissing ruff. The tail would stiffen, and within his chest new lungs would at last open. Now his pace would march him strut by strut toward the hidden music, to mount the hollow log, shuffle his feathered feet, and drum drum drum drum drum till the whole forest shuddered. from BREATHING ROOM (c) 2000 by Peter Davison +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More poems by Peter Davison: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/davison/poem.html And read an essay by Peter Davison entitled "Finding Time to Write" "Years ago I read a truly discerning piece of advice about writing. If a poem you're struggling with doesn't conclude properly, said the late Richard Hugo, look a few lines before the end for the trouble: trouble is seldom located where you think. So it is that "finding time to write" is seldom what keeps writing from getting done..." Continue reading the essay at: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/davison/poetsonpoetry.html From halvard Thu Apr 4 10:09:54 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:09:54 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest & Avoiding Repeated Messages In-Reply-To: <106.fd2ec57.29ddb607@aol.com> Message-ID: { Here's a tip that could help cut down on the length of some posts: { { If you are using Outlook Express, here's a way to avoid sending the original { message back to the list along with your reply: { { Select Tools, then Options, then the Send tab. { Under Send, uncheck the box that says "Include message in reply" { { Other e-mail programs probably have similar options, listed under Preferences { or some similar topic. { { Also, if you choose Plain text rather than HTML text, some of the strange { formatting might also be eliminated. The last suggestion is good, but reformatting someone else's HTML text into plain text is a pain in the backside. The first sender is the one who should avoid sending HTML. I suppose unchecking the "Include message in reply" box would work, but it's not, in my experience, as practical as merely highlighting and hitting backspace to delete a message or any parts of a message one doesn't need to include. For example, in replying to your message, Jim, I've deleted some of the message and all of the top and bottom stuff. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From jholmes Thu Apr 4 11:37:52 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:37:52 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bogus digest and Avoiding Repeating Messages Message-ID: Thanks, Jim. Someone here has suggested it might have to do with the web-access version of my Boise State mail software, as well. He's looking into that. Ted, with all respect, you are giving advice for the wrong scenario. One can't delete individual messages in a digest. You can either delete the whole digest or scroll through the interminable versions (first in plain text, then again in HTML coding) quoted and requoted and re-re-re-quoted by each participant in a discussion. Sometimes the quoted material has five or six levels of reply, which makes it almost impossible to find the actual new message among all of them. Since my account is on a school server, I try to minimize the number of messages I get, and digesting is the best alternative. I realize that knowing what statement each message is responding to is useful to those of us with memories that are, I like to say, already overloaded (rather than, erm, old) -- but maybe taking the time to erase all the other ones that don't pertain any more would be a possible compromise? Janet From daisyf1 Thu Apr 4 12:23:02 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:23:02 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #745 - 3 msgs Message-ID: <20020404.122303.-186179.13.daisyf1@juno.com> > I realize that knowing what statement each message is responding to > is > useful to those of us with memories that are, I like to say, already > overloaded (rather than, erm, old) -- but maybe taking the time to > erase > all the other ones that don't pertain any more would be a possible > compromise? > And it's easy to access the thread by going to the archives on the website... Daisy From JforJames Thu Apr 4 20:19:48 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:19:48 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] FYI TOO LATE: New Arab Poetry and Agha Shahid Ali Message-ID: Date:? ? Thu, 4 Apr 2002 04:32:35 -0800 From:? ? Ram Devineni Subject: New Arab Poetry and Agha Shahid Ali Please join us for three major programs on New Arab Poetry and Agha Shahid Ali. Additional information at http://www.rattapallax.com/rattapallax7_issue.htm Thanks, Ram Devineni The Contrapuntal Air: A Panel Discussion on the Convergence of Islamic and Western Literary Traditions, the poet Agha Shahid Ali, New Arab Poetry, and the Role of the Literary Journal. Thursday, April 4, 2002 at 2 PM Rifkind Room, NAC 6/316, City College With Khaled Mattawa, Christopher Merrill, Marilyn Hacker, Ram Devineni, Yerra Sugarman and M. L. Williams. For further information, please contact Nicola Blake, Rifkind Coordinator at (212) 650-7367 or via email at rifkind at ccny.cuny.edu FREE ---------------- Agha Shahid Ali Memorial Reading and Tribute Thursday, April 4, 2002 at 7 PM Greenberg Lounge, Vanderbilt Hall, New York University, 40 Washington Square South With Carol Houck Smith, Christopher Merrill, Meena Alexander, Nicholas Christopher, Michael Collier, Sharon Dolin, Forrest Gander, Amitav Ghosh, Daniel Hall, Thomas Healy, Geraldine Maxwell, Glyn Maxwell, Jeanne McCulloch, Sharon Olds, Michael Palmer, Elise Paschen, Grace Schulman, Tom Sleigh, Jean Valentine, Chuck Wachtel, William Wadsworth, Galway Kinnell & Eliot Weinberger. Presented by the NYU Graduate Creative Writing Program. For more information call the NYU Graduate Creative Writing Program at 212-998- 8816. FREE ---------------- NEW ARAB POETRY from Rattapallax Khaled Mattawa, Marilyn Hacker & Mary Ann Caws DATE: April 6, 2002 TIME: 2:00 pm Mid-Manhattan Library, 455 Fifth Ave. at 40th St., NYC, FREE Reading poems by Mahmoud Abu Hashhash, Muftah al-Amari, Fadhil Al- Azzawi, Muhammad al-Dayrawi, Maram al-Massri, Waleed al-Shaikh, Tahar Bekri, Andr?e Chedid, V?nus Khoury-Ghata, Iman Mersal, Amjad Nasser, Fatima Qindil, Amina Sa?d, Ghada Shafi?i i, Habib Tengour, and Saadi Youssef ===== Please send future emails to devineni at rattapallax.com for press devineni at dialoguepoetry.org for UN program -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Thu Apr 4 20:49:54 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:49:54 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] EB White on Poets Message-ID: <116.f1effcb.29de5cc2@aol.com> EB White on Poets... You read, perhaps, about the man who stole four tires from a car in Norfolk, Virginia, and left a purse and a diamond ring untouched on the front seat, with the note: "Roses are red, violets are blue, we like your jewels but your tires are new." The papers said it was a case of a thief who had a flair for poetry. This is palpable nonsense. It was case of a poet who was willing to attempt any desperate thing, even larceny, in order to place his poem. Clearly, here was a man who had written something and then had gone up and down in the world seeking the precise situation which would activate his poem. It must have meant long nights and days of wandering before he found a car with jewels lying loose in the front seat and four good tires on the wheels. Poets endure much for the sake of their art. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat Fri Apr 5 02:06:28 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 23:06:28 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Readings at Connecticut College In-Reply-To: <116.f1effcb.29de5cc2@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020404230628.012286@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> If you're in the area and need directions or more info, email me at wjbat at conncoll.edu Note our own Jim Cervantes April 17: April 10, 7:30 p.m. Xue Di & Keith Waldrop April 17, 4:30 p.m. James Cervantes April 25, 7:30 p.m. Charles O. Hartman All readings in the Charles Chu Room, Shain Library, Connecticut College, New London CT. Call 860-439-2350 for more info. Xue Di is a native of Beijing. After taking part in the 1989 demonstrations in Tian'anmen Square, he left China and, since 1990, has been a fellow in Brown University's Freedom to Write program. He has published two books of poems in Chinese, contributed to many magazines, and is also known as anthologist and critic. His books, in English translation, are Flames (paradigm press, 1995; translated by Wang Ping, Iona Crook, & Keith Waldrop), Heart Into Soil (Burning Deck / Lost Roads, 1998; translated by Keith Waldrop with Wang Ping, Iona Crook, Janet Tan, & Hil Anderson), & Circumstances (Duration, 2000; translated by Keith Waldrop with Hil Anderson & Xue Di). Keith Waldrop is author of numerous collections of poetry and is the translator of The Selected Poems of Edmond Jabes, as well as works by Claude Royet-Journoud, Anne-Marie Albiach and Jean Grosjean. He has received fellowships from the National Endowment for the Arts and DAAD (Berlin). His titles include Hegel's Family, The Opposite of Letting the Mind Wander: Selected Poems and a Few Songs, Shipwreck in Haven, The Balustrade, Light While There is Light, The Locality Principle, Analogies of Escape and Haunt. James Cervantes' poems have appeared recently in The Boston Review, North American Review, Quarterly West, and other magazines. His books of poetry include The Headlong Future and The Year Is Approaching Snow. The publication of Live Music, a chapbook from Pecan Grove Press, is imminent. He is editor of the online journal The Salt River Review. Charles O. Hartman is the author of six books of poetry, including Glass Enclosure and The Long View (Wesleyan), and of Free Verse: An Essay on Prosody (Princeton/Northwestern) and Jazz/Text (Princeton). He is currently Poet in Residence at Connecticut College. From JforJames Fri Apr 5 10:39:42 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:39:42 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Carol Muske poem Message-ID: <130.c311020.29df1f3e@aol.com> A FRESCO All day I've been thinking of the grief on each of their faces, Adam and Eve. The feeling is closest to a wave as it peaks, how it seems on the verge of self-consciousness before it collapses. Their mouths hold a single sound that divides, familiar as rain. The angel points away from the green world behind them, out into the nave. I remember the woman standing there, turned to stone at the side altar, and the man next to her, the back of his overcoat on fire with reflected light. They stared straight ahead at The Expulsion and the cruel, distinct words passed between them. Tourists, a corsage at her heart, his brand new guidebook. What is startling is how the fresco works itself out from under the expectation of color. After a while in this air, the other spectrum emerges: no blues or reds but grades of dark and eerie white, as the paint thins and the lead extracts new expressions. They never raised their voices. The woman seemed like someone who had been loved, but without compassion. I don't know about the man. I recall the rest of that church now, how with small fierce gestures, votive fires were lit. The two figures burning in effigy. ---- (C) 1997 Carol Muske All Rights Reserved ISBN: 0 14 058.794 2 AN OCTAVE ABOVE THUNDER: New and Selected Poems Penguin Putnam Inc. From JforJames Fri Apr 5 12:21:25 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 12:21:25 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] April is the coolest month for poetry Message-ID: April is the coolest month for poetry Thu Apr 4,10:15 AM ET Deirdre Donahue USA TODAY Before you dismiss poetry as a relic from the past andignore April's designation as National Poetry Month, consider the facts: * Poetry Speaks, a lavish $49.95 book accompanied by threeaudio CDs of poets reading their work, sold 90,000 copies this past Christmas,according to Sourcebooks publisher Dominique Raccah. (The poets range fromAlfred Lord Tennyson to Sylvia Plath.) ''Poetry is subliminal music,'' Raccahsays. * Random House has been successfully releasing its The Voiceof the Poet series for the past four years. Edited by poet J.D. McClatchy, thisseason's offerings feature Langston Hughes, Adrienne Rich and Wallace Stevens.(Altogether, there are 12 in the series.) The $19.95 package offers a CD of thepoet reading his work, as well as a 64-page paperback with poems, photos and anessay on the poet by McClatchy, who edits The Yale Review. * Caedmon celebrates a half-century of recording the worksof poets and writers this month with the release of Dylan Thomas: The CaedmonCollection (Caedmon, $49.95, 11 CDs, 12 hours; $39.95 audio edition alsoavailable). U.S. Poet Laureate Billy Collins provides an introduction. HarperAudio associate publisher Carrie Kania says one of thefirst priorities has been using new digital technology to restore ahalf-century of historic recordings. Caedmon has just released the ArthurMiller collection ($29.95, four CDs). In June, it will release a rare find: arecording of James Joyce's voice. And new poets are being recorded: Nikki Giovanni will readthis fall. ''In the glut of images from TV and CNN, poetry speaks to aprivate, quiet center of the self,'' McClatchy says. Hearing a poet read hisown work, for example, has far more resonance because ''it's what they heard intheir mind's ear,'' he says. McClatchy drew on rare private recordings donatedto Yale. Poetry is infinitely enhanced by hearing the work read bythe poet. ''Poetry, above all, has to be read aloud to be understood,'' Kaniasays. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD Fri Apr 5 12:45:06 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:45:06 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry On Record Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DAF@mail.ripon.edu> About the book *Poetry Speaks*, which is indeed pretty cool, I do have one complaint. As I've cruised through the audio portion, I've found that some of the recordings on the CDs are pretty poor. I have a Dylan Thomas on cassette, for example, that is great: clear, strong voice, well-recorded. Yet at least one of the Thomas cuts on the *Poetry Speaks* CD (same poem) is terrible. It was obviously re-recorded off a scratchy old vinyl. Very disappointing. A couple other cuts have been similar. So caveat emptor. For a course I'll be teaching next fall, I'm looking for good poetry audio, and would welcome suggestions of favorites. I'm searching not only for good recordings of page-poetry (Dylan Thomas et al.), but also for spoken word stuff. For that matter, I'm also in the market for anthologies, individual collections, and video on the general topic of "poetry aloud." David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > > * Poetry Speaks, a lavish $49.95 book accompanied by threeaudio CDs of > poets reading their work, sold 90,000 copies this past Christmas,according > to Sourcebooks publisher Dominique Raccah. (The poets range fromAlfred > Lord Tennyson to Sylvia Plath.) ''Poetry is subliminal music,'' > Raccahsays. > > From bobgrumman Fri Apr 5 20:01:04 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:01:04 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anthology Plug References: <20020406000258.286A6B6E4@xmxpita.excite.com> Message-ID: <004c01c1dd06$87cbb0a0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Kathy Ernst, Scott Helmes, possibly Marilyn Rosenberg and I will be at Books are Books (265 Aragon Avenue, Coral Gables, Florida), which scuttlebutt says is the best bookstore in the Miami area. Marvin Sackner will also be there as well as Miami visual poet, Carlos Luis. It's a book launch and reading for WRITING TO BE SEEN, volume one, 328 11" by 8.5" pages, $24, the first full-scale visio-textual art anthology in the US in a quarter of a century. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn have work in it, I co-edited it. Other poets with work in it are Guy R. Beining, David Cole, William L. Fox, Bill Keith, Karl Kempton, Joel Lipman, Harry Polkinhorn, Carol Stetser and Karl Young. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn will also be participating in a similar event at Printed Matter 535 West 22nd St. New York, NY 10011 5-7 PM Saturday, May 4th, 2002 --Bob G. From bobgrumman Fri Apr 5 20:10:31 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:10:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Anthology Plug--with Time & Date! Message-ID: <008001c1dd07$d9a71580$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Kathy Ernst, Scott Helmes, possibly Marilyn Rosenberg and I will be at Books are Books (265 Aragon Avenue, Coral Gables, Florida), which scuttlebutt says is the best bookstore in the Miami area, at 8 P.M., Friday, 12 April 2002. Marvin Sackner will also be there as well as Miami visual poet, Carlos Luis. It's a book launch and reading for WRITING TO BE SEEN, volume one, 328 11" by 8.5" pages, $24, the first full-scale visio-textual art anthology in the US in a quarter of a century. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn have work in it, I co-edited it. Other poets with work in it are Guy R. Beining, David Cole, William L. Fox, Bill Keith, Karl Kempton, Joel Lipman, Harry Polkinhorn, Carol Stetser and Karl Young. Kathy, Scott and Marilyn will also be participating in a similar event at Printed Matter 535 West 22nd St. New York, NY 10011 5-7 PM Saturday, May 4th, 2002 --Bob G. > > From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 01:52:10 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 23:52:10 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bogus digest and Avoiding Repeating Messages References: Message-ID: <3CAE9B17.E758C742@earthlink.net> Janet Holmes wrote: > I realize that knowing what statement each message is responding to is > useful to those of us with memories that are, I like to say, already > overloaded (rather than, erm, old) -- but maybe taking the time to erase > all the other ones that don't pertain any more would be a possible > compromise? One useful item of Netiquette is for the poster to quote only the pertinent part of what is being replied to. Therefore, instead of just repeating an entire message plus headers, one could cut-and-paste a paragraph or two and respond to that. This keeps both those who want to see what's being replied to and those who need to conserve space happy. I sympathize with Janet because once I belonged to an extremely active alumni email list, and I subscribed in digest form, and you would frequently see entire digests consisting of replies to one original post which kept getting quoted over and over and over again so many times it would be made up almost wholly of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moira Russell Seattle, WA From khodges Sat Apr 6 04:05:11 2002 From: khodges (Kim Hodges) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:05:11 -0800 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bogus digest In-Reply-To: <007e01c1db60$7e7dc6c0$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020406010359.022487b0@pop.softhome.net> At 04:40 PM 4/3/02 -0600, you wrote: >there's got to be a better way of handling mail messages on lists. Maybe >soon someone will come up with abetter way of handling them as we soon will >be paying for sending emails. I personally like to get the whole thread >when I get a message just as if it wasa reply posted on a bb. it helps my >mind organize all the info and it makes it easier to store if it's worth >saving. It's a fairly common occurence that people join lists because >they are interested in a topic and then quit when they get too many >messages. it's almost like they feel a moral obligation to read them all >rather than just delete? > >tom bell You can do this by saving the messages you are interested in (or all of them!) in your mail client. Then sort them by thread. Most mail clients will do this. Eudora does. - Kim From JforJames Sat Apr 6 10:21:10 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:21:10 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Bogus digest and Avoiding Repeating Messages Message-ID: <40.1c044154.29e06c66@aol.com> In a message dated 4/6/02 2:48:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, odysseus34 at earthlink.net writes: << One useful item of Netiquette is for the poster to quote only the pertinent part of what is being replied to. Therefore, instead of just repeating an entire message plus headers, one could cut-and-paste a paragraph or two and respond to that. This keeps both those who want to see what's being replied to and those who need to conserve space happy. >> I agree with Moira's suggestion: Keeping to the essential text in the reply...discarding the excess matter. It may take a bit more time, but "cleaning up" your reply will probably be appreciated by others on the list. Re: the truncated digest My tech support helper (thank you, Len Hatfield) said he thought the problem was in the email system of the user (Janet's, in this case). I'm curious if others are having a similar problem....are getting only part of the digest? Please backchannel: JforJames at aol.com Right now our listserv software is set to kick out the digests when they hit 30 Kb or daily (whichever comes first). I'm not exactly certain how much text this equates to, but perhaps some of you have an opinion on the efficacy/efficiency of this setting? Let me know. Jim F From halvard Sat Apr 6 15:31:30 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 15:31:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" Message-ID: Hommage to Arthur Waley Seattle weather: it has rained for weeks in this town, The dampness breeding moths and a gray summer. I sit in the smoky room reading your book again, My eyes raw, hearing the trains steaming below me In the wet yard, and I wonder if you are still alive. Turning the worn pages, reading once more: "By misty waters and rainy sand, while the yellow dusk thickens." --Weldon Kees Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From grahamd Sat Apr 6 16:15:20 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 15:15:20 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homage to Homage Message-ID: <200204062114.g36LEan39970@mx3.mx.voyager.net> HOMAGE TO WELDON KEES --after his "Homage to Arthur Waley" Wisconsin fall: windows closed these three weeks, midnight chill you can still smell through the glass. I reach for your book naturally after midnight, work done, listening to the furnace click and halt in my walls, and I study your photo once more. Gazing down on that blueblack ocean you must have joined in 1955. Thinking "even the sound of the rain repeats: *The lease is up, the time is near*." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: "Halvard Johnson" >To: "New-Poetry" >Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" >Date: Sat, Apr 6, 2002, 2:31 PM > > >Hommage to Arthur Waley > >Seattle weather: it has rained for weeks in this town, >The dampness breeding moths and a gray summer. >I sit in the smoky room reading your book again, >My eyes raw, hearing the trains steaming below me >In the wet yard, and I wonder if you are still alive. >Turning the worn pages, reading once more: >"By misty waters and rainy sand, while the yellow dusk > thickens." > >--Weldon Kees > From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 16:09:51 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:09:51 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" References: Message-ID: <3CAF640B.8DD67AC@earthlink.net> Halvard Johnson wrote: > Hommage to Arthur Waley > > Seattle weather: it has rained for weeks in this town, > The dampness breeding moths and a gray summer. I like Weldon Kees. But in defense of my adopted hometown it actually rains less here annually than it does in NY or Chicago. It's just more spread out, a lot fewer thunderstorms. Summer tends to be hot! Yeah yeah, poetic license. Joke overheard in the UW bookstore on Thursday, which was gloriously sunny: "It's supposed to rain this weekend." "Damn." "You know what follows two days of rain in Seattle, don't you?" "What?" "Monday." Moira Russell who just rescued a hard copy ex-library of A.D. Hope's Collected from a used bookstore's dollar bin in Seattle, WA From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 16:21:15 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:21:15 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Somebody Else's Poem (SEP) References: Message-ID: <3CAF66B6.274CDA69@earthlink.net> X-RAY PHOTOGRAPH Mapped by its panoply of shade There is the skull I shall not see -- Dark hollow in its galaxy From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 16:28:48 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:28:48 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] SEP II References: Message-ID: <3CAF687A.121D0A6B@earthlink.net> Well, this is one of my favorite A.D. Hope poems, so I'll just inflict it on you all before I go out into our "Seattle weather," "mostly cloudy skies, with a few showers" and 13.50 in of rain since the first of the year. Moira Russell *** Meditation on a Bone A.D. Hope A piece of bone, found at Trondhjem in 1901, with the following runic inscription (about A.D. 1050) cut on it: I loved her as a maiden; I will not trouble Erlend's detestable wife; better she should be widow. Words scored upon a bone, Scratched in despair or rage -- Nine hundred years have gone; Now, in another age, They burn with passion on A scholar's tranquil page. The scholar takes his pen And turns the bone about, And writes those words again. Once more they seethe and shout And through a human brain Undying hate rings out. "I loved her when a maid; I loathe and love the wife That warms another's bed: Let him beware his life!" The scholar's hand is stayed; His pen becomes a knife To grave in living bone The fierce archaic cry. He sits and reads his own Dull sum of misery. A thousand years have flown Before that ink is dry. And, in a foreign tongue, A man, who is not he, Reads and his heart is wrung This ancient grief to see, And thinks: When I am dung, What bone shall speak for me? From marcus Sat Apr 6 22:57:31 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 22:57:31 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" In-Reply-To: <3CAF640B.8DD67AC@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CAF7D5B.25263.11C7A7@localhost> > Moira Russell > who just rescued a hard copy ex-library of A.D. Hope's Collected from a > used bookstore's dollar bin in > Seattle, WA I'll give you two bucks for it and pay the postage. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Robtberner Sat Apr 6 23:49:50 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 23:49:50 EST Subject: [New-Poetry] Homage to Homage Message-ID: <7c.25e0b31d.29e129ee@aol.com> Halvard Johnson posts "Homage To Arthur Waley" by Weldon Kees. David Graham followed with his own homage to Kees. Let me add this: Problems Of An Academic "I want to get away somewhere and re-read Kees," Said the Chairman of English to a Lady in Speech. But the pages brittled and crumbled, Superhighways ran on like rails in a cafeteria Through forests of refineries. Shuffling through halls Where blue windows like slits in bunkers Frame loony observers, a fantasy with testaments, You taste, intellect and spirit, the names of conglomerates, One burn-off flickering on those verses. "I want to get away somewhere and re-read Kees," Said a droog from Psych to a dwarf in Ed. Gulags with Guggenheims, Maidaneks with sabbaticals, One reads, as Christmas settles on the campus, New Yorker in the Faculty Commons. Robert Berner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From odysseus34 Sat Apr 6 23:08:06 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 21:08:06 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Hommage to Arthur Waley" References: <3CAF7D5B.25263.11C7A7@localhost> Message-ID: <3CAFC624.A753AF85@earthlink.net> Marcus Bales wrote: > > Moira Russell > > who just rescued a hard copy ex-library of A.D. Hope's Collected from a > > used bookstore's dollar bin in > > Seattle, WA > > I'll give you two bucks for it and pay the postage. Sorry, ain't letting go of that one. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From aburack Sun Apr 7 10:56:41 2002 From: aburack (Alexandra Burack) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 10:56:41 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Crime Club" References: Message-ID: <002801c1de44$6dcedb20$900653c6@bzln101> Kudos to Halvard Johnson for sending along a poem by Weldon Kees, of whose fan club I am a charter member. Here's the Kees poem that hooked me; it's from his second book, The Fall of the Magicians: Crime Club No butler, no second maid, no blood upon the stair. No eccentric aunt, no gardener, no family friend Smiling among the bric-a-brac and murder. Only a suburban house with the front door open And a dog barking at a squirrel, and the cars Passing. The corpse quite dead. The wife in Florida. Consider the clues: the potato masher in a vase, The torn photograph of a Wesleyan basketball team, Scattered with check stubs in the hall; The unsent fan letter to Shirley Temple, The Hoover button on the lapel of the deceased, The note: "To be killed this way is quite all right with me." Small wonder that the case remains unsolved, Or that the sleuth, Le Roux, is now incurably insane, And sits alone in a white room in a white gown, Screaming that all the world is made, that clues Lead nowhere, or to walls so high their tops cannot be seen; Screaming all day of war, screaming that nothing can be solved. --Weldon Kees posted by Alexandra Burack From JforJames Sun Apr 7 14:33:01 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 14:33:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lyric Voice Message-ID: In a message dated 4/3/02 12:40:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cvoisine at nmsu.edu writes: > become especially > interested in finding good essays/criticism about the lyric voice. I am > reading some of Frank O'Hara's prose and few other contemporary sources (orr > (Is there a term for a book that you can't find because it has fallen behind the other books on an overstacked shelf?) Late answer to Connie Voisine's question...A couple of good academic books dealing with the lyric: _The Idea of Lyric: Lyric Modes in Ancient and Modern Poetry_ by W. R. Johnson (U. of Cal. Press, 1982) Some chapter titles: Swans in Crystal: The Problem of Modern Lyric and Its Pronouns; Praise & Blame: Greek Lyric; In the Birdcage of the Muses: Acient Literary Lyric; The Amplitude of Time: Whitman and Modern Choral Here's a Johnson quote: "One complaint lodged against Sappho-- it is lodged against Emily Dickinson too, and that tells us something about the complaint--is that her range is narrow. Even if the charge could be proved, and it cannot, we would want to remember that lyric poetry cares nothing for breadth and width, everything for depth and height." & this collection of essays... _Lyric Poetry: Beyond New Criticism_, edited by Chaviva Hosek & Patricia Parker, includes essays by: Jonathan Culler, Paul De Man, Annabel Patterson, Stanley Fish, John Hollander, Cynthia Chase, Mary Nyquist, Frederic Jameson, Mary Jacobus, etc. Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Sun Apr 7 15:49:32 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:49:32 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Crime Club" Message-ID: <1a2.4de25d.29e1fccc@cs.com> In a message dated 4/7/2002 9:58:08 AM Central Daylight Time, aburack at mail.slc.edu writes: > Kudos to Halvard Johnson for sending along a poem by Weldon Kees, of whose > fan club I am a charter member. > Surprisingly, Kees is one of the poets that Ian Hamilton writes about in Against Oblivion (available from Amazon UK). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sun Apr 7 15:56:34 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:56:34 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lyric Voice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: { (Is there a term for a book that you can't find because { it has fallen behind the other books on an overstacked shelf?) { Finnegan The briefest term is "lost book." There are, of course, longer terms, one of them being "that goddamned book I can never find around here anymore and probably lent to X, who never returned it, the bastard." Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From halvard Sun Apr 7 16:27:31 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 16:27:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Kenneth Koch, "You Were Wearing" Message-ID: You Were Wearing You were wearing your Edgar Allan Poe printed cotton blouse. In each divided up square of the blouse was a picture of Edgar Allan Poe. Your hair was blonde and you were cute. You asked me, "Do most boys think that most girls are bad?" I smelled the mould of your seaside resort hotel bedroom on your hair held in place by a John Greenleaf Whittier clip. "No," I said, "it's girls who think that boys are bad." Then we read *Snowbound* together And ran around in an attic, so that a little of the blue enamel was scraped off my George Washington, Father of His Country, shoes. Mother was walking in the living room, her Strauss Waltzes comb in her hair. We waited for a time and then joined her, only to be served tea in cups painted with pictures of Herman Melville As well as with illustrations from his book *Moby Dick* and from his novella, *Benito Cereno*. Father came in wearing his Dick Tracy necktie: "How about a drink, everyone?" I said, "Let's go outside a while." Then we went onto the porch and sat on the Abraham Lincoln swing. You sat on the eyes, mouth, and beard part, and I sat on the knees. In the yard across the street we saw a snowman holding a garbage can lid smashed into a likeness of the mad English king, George the Third. --Kenneth Koch Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From JforJames Sun Apr 7 17:01:52 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 17:01:52 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lyric Voice Message-ID: <16f.baa276f.29e20dc0@aol.com> In a message dated 4/7/02 3:59:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, halvard at earthlink.net writes: > The briefest term is "lost book." There are, of course, longer terms, > one of them being "that goddamned book I can never find around > here anymore and probably lent to X, who never returned it, the > bastard." > yeah, that s.o.b. has still got a few of mine too. This is probably not a revelation, but when I was looking (& looking & looking) for that Johnson title I realized that I wasn't reading any of the spines... I was looking for a book about 1" wide, a light blue covered paperback. I guess that's how we always search our own libraries... by size & color or texture...unless one's been diligent enuf to categorize and alphabetize. I've been on book buying tear of late...a used bookshop is moving out and has everything reduced by 75%...as if I need more temptation. In recent months the last two used bookshops in our town have moved out of their favorable retail trade spaces; not because they're losing money...but because they now make the majority of their sales via the internet and a high-priced lease wasn't worth it. They now have sequestered their operations in warehouse spaces (which in New England often means an old mill/factory). A pity, because browsing those massive stacks of books was half the fun for a desultory reader like me. There should be a term for the book we find while looking for another book, the "new" book suddenly seems like a gift or an uncovered treasure, only half-remembering that we actually bought this book 5 years ago and never got around to reading it. (What I found today was _The Tragic Myth: Lorca & Cante Jondo_ ) Anyway, I was thinking about what Borges said on this topic... "When I encounter a book in one of my favorite subject areas, like Old Norse, I often find myself picking it up, leafing thru it, and saying to myself what a pity I can't buy this book...but I already own it." Finnegan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From odysseus34 Sun Apr 7 16:23:11 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 13:23:11 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Weldon Kees, "Crime Club" References: <1a2.4de25d.29e1fccc@cs.com> Message-ID: <3CB0AA87.F7C73B3D@earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sun Apr 7 17:49:24 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 17:49:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] An Evening of Poetry and Fiction Message-ID: AN EVENING OF POETRY AND FICTION IN THE WESTBETH COMMUNITY ROOM 155 Bank Street, West Village, New York City with Lynda Schor James V. Cervantes & Halvard Johnson Sunday, April 14, 2002 7 pm No Charge Information: 212-691-2764 or 212-691-6337 From TerryP17 Sun Apr 7 21:27:33 2002 From: TerryP17 (TerryP17 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 21:27:33 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope Message-ID: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> Moira-- Great poem from a relatively unknown poet, far better than Kees, in my book. Marcus offered you 2 bucks, but I'll offer you 4 plus postage. Or you could put it up on eBay. BTW, Robert Darling, a fine poet who teaches in the American Outback at Keuka College, has done some fine scholarly work on Hope. I'll dig up his email address and forward it to you offline if you're interested. --Terry Ponick From odysseus34 Sun Apr 7 21:53:56 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 18:53:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope References: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Isn't Hope great? I think "Return of Persephone" is probably my favorite of his -- turns it more into a beauty-and-beast theme. Geez, I wonder if I could get an auction going for the book on the list. I didn't mean to brag abt the price I got it for, I had just returned the book to the library and was amazed to see the very same edition sitting in the dollar bin of my favorite u-district used bookstore. V odd of them not to put it in with the regular poetry, but maybe they thought people would be bothered by the library card pocket. I would love to have the email add -- feel free to forward it! Long narratives are out of fashion; Sustained invention does not please; And sacred truth and moral passion Belong to former centuries. Yet epic stakes its reputation On public taste for things like these. Readers who give your poem a glance Will settle for a police romance. -- "Conversation with Calliope," A.D. Hope I was trying to think of better poets for poet laureate than Billy (ugh) Collins and all I could possibly come up with was Thom Gunn. Who would you nominate? just curious.... chrs moi TerryP17 at aol.com wrote: > Moira-- > > Great poem from a relatively unknown poet, far better than Kees, in my book. > Marcus offered you 2 bucks, but I'll offer you 4 plus postage. Or you could > put it up on eBay. > > BTW, Robert Darling, a fine poet who teaches in the American Outback at Keuka > College, has done some fine scholarly work on Hope. I'll dig up his email > address and forward it to you offline if you're interested. > > --Terry Ponick > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From odysseus34 Sun Apr 7 22:03:02 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 19:03:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope References: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB0FA51.21102A1C@earthlink.net> odysseus34 wrote: > Isn't Hope great? I think "Return of Persephone" is probably my favorite of his > -- turns it more into a beauty-and-beast theme. Choke. Well, obviously that was supposed to go to Terry, not the list. Sorry, folks. And just to reiterate, although I find the Hope offers touching, my next of kin can have this book when they pry it from my cold, dead, gnarly arthritic fingers. chrs moira From marcus Sun Apr 7 22:21:23 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:21:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope In-Reply-To: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB0C663.10877.25BBB92@localhost> > Great poem from a relatively unknown poet, far better than Kees, in my book. > Marcus offered you 2 bucks, but I'll offer you 4 plus postage. Or you could > put it up on eBay. Eight. And I'll pay for packaging as well as postage. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From marcus Sun Apr 7 22:24:05 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:24:05 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope In-Reply-To: <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB0C705.11310.25E325A@localhost> > Long narratives are out of fashion; > Sustained invention does not please; > And sacred truth and moral passion > Belong to former centuries. > Yet epic stakes its reputation > On public taste for things like these. > Readers who give your poem a glance > Will settle for a police romance. > -- "Conversation with Calliope," A.D. Hope From Robtberner Sun Apr 7 22:57:42 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 22:57:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees Message-ID: <14c.be2b54b.29e26126@aol.com> In a message date 4-27-02, Moira Russell writes that she only found out about Kees by reading (she thinks) Dana Gioia. I'm glad she discovered Kees, one of the best of the not-widely-knowns. But anyone who was ever a student in the Iowa workshop when Donald Justice was teaching there would have been exposed to Kees eventually. And this would go all the way back to 1960, when Justice edited and wrote an introduction to The Collected Poems Of Weldon Kees, published that year in a hand-set, limited edtion by Kim Merker at his Stone Wall Press. Justice championed Kees and recommended that everyone read him to see how he handled technical toughies like sestinas and villanelles as well as cultural and literary themes. And I'm sure that many if not most of those Iowa workshop grads ended up using something from Kees in their own classes. So it's good to see that people are still discovering Kees. He clearly will not remain in oblivion. He keeps re-emerging, and that's all to the good. Robert Berner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat Mon Apr 8 02:39:59 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:39:59 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query In-Reply-To: <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20020407233959.027481@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as well? I have to order books to be shipped to Greece for my reading & writing poetry course next fall, and the anthology I usually use is enormous. There used to be some serviceable small paperback anthologies, but I haven't seen any lately; everything available seems hopelessly specialized. I'll have plenty of poems on my computer to back and fill with for classes, but I want the students to have something eclectic to graze on through numerous field trips & travels. They'll have a bilingual modern Greek anthology as well. Any suggestions gratefully explored-- Wendy From grahamd Sun Apr 7 23:44:36 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 22:44:36 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Weldon Kees Message-ID: <200204080341.g383fbK58413@mx8.mx.voyager.net> I first read Kees in Berg & Mezey's goofily titled 1969 anthology, *Naked Poetry*. I remember buying it because one of the featured poets was Denise Levertov, my favorite at the time. You still see that book in the used shops from time to time, and, despite its sometimes shallow free-verse polemics, I believe it's aged better than many anthologies. In addition to Kees, *Naked Poetry* gave me my first or close-to-first exposure to Kenneth Rexroth, Philip Levine, Robert Creeley, Gary Snyder, and a number of others. The second edition added folks like Robert Duncan and Muriel Rukeyser, as I recall. It's still somewhat rare to find Kees featured in an anthology of the period. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Robtberner at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees Date: Sun, Apr 7, 2002, 9:57 PM In a message date 4-27-02, Moira Russell writes that she only found out about Kees by reading (she thinks) Dana Gioia. I'm glad she discovered Kees, one of the best of the not-widely-knowns. But anyone who was ever a student in the Iowa workshop when Donald Justice was teaching there would have been exposed to Kees eventually. And this would go all the way back to 1960, when Justice edited and wrote an introduction to The Collected Poems Of Weldon Kees, published that year in a hand-set, limited edtion by Kim Merker at his Stone Wall Press. Justice championed Kees and recommended that everyone read him to see how he handled technical toughies like sestinas and villanelles as well as cultural and literary themes. And I'm sure that many if not most of those Iowa workshop grads ended up using something from Kees in their own classes. So it's good to see that people are still discovering Kees. He clearly will not remain in oblivion. He keeps re-emerging, and that's all to the good. Robert Berner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sun Apr 7 23:49:44 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 22:49:44 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query Message-ID: <200204080349.g383nCg84276@mx12.mx.voyager.net> Well, Carruth's *Voice That Is Great Within Us* seems to be still in print. Hopelessly outdated, of course (it has to be 30 years old), but still among my favorites for its range and quirky choices. Better for the first half of the 20th Century, obviously, than for the latter half. I'd be very interested in other answers to this question myself. It's odd that nothing like Carruth's book has appeared, isn't it? David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: Wendy Battin >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query >Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 1:39 AM > >I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. >But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: > >Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry >anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as well? >I have to order books to be shipped to Greece for my reading & writing poetry >course next fall, and the anthology I usually use is enormous. There >used to be some serviceable small paperback anthologies, but I haven't >seen any lately; everything available seems hopelessly specialized. I'll >have plenty of poems on my computer to back and fill with for classes, >but I want the students to have something eclectic to graze on through >numerous field trips & travels. They'll have a bilingual modern Greek >anthology as well. > >Any suggestions gratefully explored-- > >Wendy From odysseus34 Mon Apr 8 00:06:23 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 21:06:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees References: <14c.be2b54b.29e26126@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB1173C.F776415E@earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gmcvay Mon Apr 8 00:58:59 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 00:58:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Irreverent query, was Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope References: <3f.9828cc0.29e24c05@aol.com> <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB12392.62660A2E@patriot.net> Dear Hopeful ones, Was Hope known to have feathers? Signed, Wondering in Washington From tadrichards Mon Apr 8 07:49:52 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 07:49:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees References: <14c.be2b54b.29e26126@aol.com> <3CB1173C.F776415E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <039e01c1def3$7f1e5cc0$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Re: I'm not part of that specialized audience you mention. Moira Russell Seattle, WA In a sense, though, you benefited from the experience of that often-despised group. Anthologist Robert Mezey was a student of Donald Justice, and learned about Kees from him. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards Mon Apr 8 07:55:56 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 07:55:56 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Weldon Kees References: <14c.be2b54b.29e26126@aol.com> <3CB1173C.F776415E@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <03ae01c1def4$67c90ba0$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> There's an excellent Kees website at http://mockingbird.creighton.edu/NCW/kees.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From TerryP17 Mon Apr 8 09:51:50 2002 From: TerryP17 (TerryP17 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 09:51:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope Message-ID: <6D275C8D.5CAC7FF3.0083014E@aol.com> Moira-- Sorry you "outted" your intended offline message to the list, but no harm done, I think, plus we got to read another fugitive poem from Hope, and another one courtesy of Marcus. Poet Laureate instead of Collins? Well, there's an excellent candidate who occasionally lurks on this listserv. Skilled, profound, funny, topical, and able to engage form in a refreshing, contemporary manner. But I suspect he'd be unwilling to leave his safe house in Texas and move to Ground Zero for a year. By the way, forget cold dead fingers, and pay no attention to Marcus. I'll offer you ten, plus shipping and handling, and a ten percent commish if you shut off the bidding today. --Terry Ponick From marcus Mon Apr 8 11:09:44 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:09:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query In-Reply-To: <20020407233959.027481@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> References: <3CB0F830.33398A41@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB17A78.28469.21E22E@localhost> > I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. > But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: > > Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry > anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as well? Do you know Lawrence Perrine's "Sound and Sense"? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From marcus Mon Apr 8 11:09:44 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:09:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Re: Old Poems by A.D. Hope In-Reply-To: <6D275C8D.5CAC7FF3.0083014E@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB17A78.27951.21E2B1@localhost> > By the way, forget cold dead fingers, and pay no attention to Marcus. I'll offer you ten, plus shipping and handling, and a ten percent commish if you shut off the bidding today.< Instead of money, how about any Hope poem of approximately 20 lines sandblasted into a piece of 1/2" glass with chamfered polished edges, suitable for desk-top display, similar to this: http://www.panamahank.com/vicky/ Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From halvard Mon Apr 8 11:24:19 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:24:19 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: James Wright, "Eisenhower's Visit to Franco, 1959" Message-ID: Eisenhower's Visit to Franco, 1959 " . . . we die of cold, and not of darkness." --Unamuno The American hero must triumph over The forces of darkness. He has flown through the very light of heaven And come down in the slow dusk Of Spain. Franco stands in a shining circle of police. His arms open in welcome. He promises all dark things Will be hunted down. State police yawn in the prisons. Antonio Machado follows the moon Down a road of white dust, To a cave of silent children Under the Pyrenees. Wine darkens in stone jars in villages. Wine sleeps in the mouths of old men, it is a dark red color. Smiles glitter in Madrid. Eisenhower has touched hands with Franco, embracing In a glare of photographers. Clean new bombers from America muffle their engines And glide down now. Their wings shine in the searchlights Of bare fields, In Spain. --James Wright, *The Branch Will Not Break*, 1963 Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From JforJames Mon Apr 8 16:53:37 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:53:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize for Poetry: Practical Gods by Carl Dennis Message-ID: <145.c88b423.29e35d51@aol.com> Fiction, Drama, Poetry Pulitzers Announced Mon Apr 8, 4:08 PM ET NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Pulitzer Prize for Fiction was awarded on Monday to Richard Russo for his book "Empire Falls", the Pulitzer Prize Board said. It also named the following winners at Columbia University: Suzan-Lori Parks, drama, for her play "Topdog/Underdog"; Louis Menand, history, for "The Metaphysical Club: A Story of Ideas in America"; David McCullough, biography, for his book "John Adams"; Carl Dennis, poetry, for his volume entitled "Practical Gods"; Diane McWhorter, general non-fiction, for her book "Carry Me Home: Birmingham, Alabama, the Climactic Battle of the Civil Rights Revolution"; and Henry Brant, music, for "Ice Field," premiered by the San Francisco Symphony on Dec. 12, 2001. From JforJames Mon Apr 8 17:34:01 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:34:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query Message-ID: <131.bd41942.29e366c9@aol.com> > I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. > > But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: > > > > Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry > > anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as well? I was thinking that there might be a suitable anthology published abroad...but all I could come with was... The Faber Book of Contemporary American Poetry Edited by: Helen Vendler Availability: Reprinting: no date Cover: Paperback (B format) ISBN: 0-571-13946-9 Price: ?9.99 An anthology of American poetry which covers the period from Wallace Stevens (born 1879) to Rita Dove (born 1952). The anthology includes work by only 35 poets which allows for a wide range of poems from each of the selected poets. From wjbat Mon Apr 8 20:39:14 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 17:39:14 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query In-Reply-To: <3CB17A78.28469.21E22E@localhost> Message-ID: <20020408173914.029777@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Marcus Bales wrote: >Do you know Lawrence Perrine's "Sound and Sense"? I had it in high school 3 decades ago. But I remember it as an intro to poetry rather than as an anthology. I hadn't thought of it as a college-level text. Wendy From GrahamD Mon Apr 8 17:50:50 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:50:50 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DBC@mail.ripon.edu> Sounds suspiciously like a repackaging of Vendler's *Harvard Book of Contemporary Poetry*, available on this side of the Atlantic only in a 400 page hardcover for $34. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: JforJames at aol.com > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, April 8, 2002 4:34 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] anthology query > > > > I've asked this elsewhere, so apologies to those I've already polled. > > > But I'm desperate--deadline approaching & everything's out of print: > > > > > > Does anyone know of a good *compact* contemporary/modern poetry > > > anthology? American primarily, but other English-language welcome as > well? > I was thinking that there might be a suitable anthology published > abroad...but all I could come with was... > The Faber Book of Contemporary American Poetry > Edited by: Helen Vendler > Availability: > Reprinting: no date Cover: > Paperback (B format) > ISBN: > 0-571-13946-9 > Price: > ?9.99 > > An anthology of American poetry which covers the period from Wallace > Stevens > (born 1879) to Rita Dove (born 1952). The anthology includes work by only > 35 > poets which allows for a wide range of poems from each of the selected > poets. > From mhb Mon Apr 8 18:47:18 2002 From: mhb (matthb) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:47:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize for Poetry: Practical Gods by Carl Dennis In-Reply-To: <145.c88b423.29e35d51@aol.com> Message-ID: > From: JforJames at aol.com > > Carl Dennis, poetry, for his volume entitled "Practical Gods"; I've not read this book. I enjoyed his earlier 'Ranking the Wishes' and recall reading at the time that each of his books has been of a different voice or style. RTW was what I would call a literal appreciation of the everyday. What kind of book is Practical Gods? -matt From grahamd Mon Apr 8 20:47:11 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 19:47:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Practical Gods by Carl Dennis Message-ID: <200204090046.g390keU66772@mx17.mx.voyager.net> The God Who Loves You It must be troubling for the god who loves you To ponder how much happier you'd be today Had you been able to glimpse your many futures. It must be painful for him to watch you on Friday evenings Driving home from the office, content with your week? Three fine houses sold to deserving families? Knowing as he does exactly what would have happened Had you gone to your second choice for college, Knowing the roommate you'd have been allotted Whose ardent opinions on painting and music Would have kindled in you a lifelong passion. A life thirty points above the life you're living On any scale of satisfaction. And every point A thorn in the side of the god who loves you. You don't want that, a large-souled man like you Who tries to withhold from your wife the day's disappointments So she can save her empathy for the children. And would you want this god to compare your wife With the woman you were destined to meet on the other campus? It hurts you to think of him ranking the conversation You'd have enjoyed over there higher in insight Than the conversation you're used to. And think how this loving god would feel Knowing that the man next in line for your wife Would have pleased her more than you ever will Even on your best days, when you really try. Can you sleep at night believing a god like that Is pacing his cloudy bedroom, harassed by alternatives You're spared by ignorance? The difference between what is And what could have been will remain alive for him Even after you cease existing, after you catch a chill Running out in the snow for the morning paper, Losing eleven years that the god who loves you Will feel compelled to imagine scene by scene Unless you come to the rescue by imagining him No wiser than you are, no god at all, only a friend No closer than the actual friend you made at college, The one you haven't written in months. Sit down tonight And write him about the life you can talk about With a claim to authority, the life you've witnessed, Which for all you know is the life you've chosen. -- Carl Dennis. *Practical Gods*. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: matthb >To: >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize for Poetry: Practical Gods by Carl Dennis >Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 5:47 PM > >> >> Carl Dennis, poetry, for his volume entitled "Practical Gods"; > >I've not read this book. I enjoyed his earlier 'Ranking the Wishes' and >recall reading at the time that each of his books has been of a different >voice or style. RTW was what I would call a literal appreciation of the >everyday. What kind of book is Practical Gods? > >-matt From marcus Mon Apr 8 21:48:00 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:48:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query In-Reply-To: <20020408173914.029777@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> References: <3CB17A78.28469.21E22E@localhost> Message-ID: <3CB21010.8220.1E32B4@localhost> > Marcus Bales wrote: > >Do you know Lawrence Perrine's "Sound and Sense"? > > I had it in high school 3 decades ago. But I remember it as an intro to > poetry rather than as an anthology. I hadn't thought of it as a > college-level text. > Wendy It's very good; it has a large number of significant poems in it, and they're well-selected. The index allows you to read the poems by author, thought the organization of the book is by poetic effect. It's been through several revisions since your high school days, too. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From rloden Mon Apr 8 22:30:51 2002 From: rloden (Rachel Loden) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 19:30:51 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Unamuno line (was Poems by Others: James Wright, "Eisenhower's Visit to Franco, 1959") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c1df6e$930ec5a0$61010140@default> Hal, thanks for that. Oddly enough, that same Unamuno line (in a slightly different translation) figures in my poem "Blues for the Evil Empire." If I were rewriting it today, maybe I'd replace the phrase "red and rising sun" with "star and crescent moon." Or suchlike. Which is not to doubt the existence of Dr. Evil. Speaking of which, was anyone else amused to read in a recent bio that George W., while not particularly conversant with many cultural references, knows the Austin Powers movies by heart and loves to put his pinkie to his lips, a la Austin's nemesis? Here's the poem--stars indicate italics . . . BLUES FOR THE EVIL EMPIRE *with a line by Unamuno* Consider the late *Eurasian entity*, how it lumbered into the groggy arms of history where it was buried. Which is more than you can say for Lenin?s body, chilly like a mammoth in an ice floe, if less hairy. An old man in the square asks ?Who is laughing at us?? then drifts unevenly away. The czar?s nephew comes alive in Finland like some cyborg, sent into the future with a mission to annoy; there are the plagues: evangelists, economists, and experts of all kinds, Americans who read the future in a glass of tea, and analyze ?the Slavic mind.? At home, cold warriors, like dying jellyfish, grow dim. Why no joy in Washington, no dancing in the streets--we ?won,? but sleep uneasy in our victory. The evil empire, vanquished, seeks a plusher berth within--a red and rising sun? A few blocks from the White House, my city twists and keens, and someone?s child is bought and sold. --*We do not die of darkness, but of the cold*. Rachel Loden from _Hotel Imperium_ (University of Georgia Press) > Eisenhower's Visit to Franco, 1959 > > " . . . we die of cold, and not of darkness." > --Unamuno From JackKerouac25 Mon Apr 8 23:07:07 2002 From: JackKerouac25 (JackKerouac25 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 23:07:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query Message-ID: <7a.24f5ba07.29e3b4db@aol.com> Is *Sound and Sense* the book that the Robin Williams character rips to shreds in *Dead Poet's Society*? This post in no way attacks or defends the book--it's innocent, if such thing as an innocent post can exist. JLN In a message dated 4/8/02 8:40:24 PM Central Daylight Time, marcus at designerglass.com writes: > It's very good; it has a large number of significant poems in it, and > they're well-selected. The index allows you to read the poems by > author, thought the organization of the book is by poetic effect. It's > been through several revisions since your high school days, too. > > > > Marcus Bales Jeffrey L. Newberry *Deleted So that Certain Parties May not Be Offended* Department of English and Foreign Languages University of West Florida 11000 University Parkway Pensacola, FL 32514 850.474.2923 850.473.7330 From grahamd Tue Apr 9 00:09:20 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 23:09:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query II Message-ID: <200204090408.g3948qa63455@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Straying even further from Wendy's original query, I'd be interested in what poetry anthologies the teachers among us favor, and why. I used Perrine's many years and editions ago. It's one of the big monsters--which I have gravitated away from over the years. As much as I admire the X. J. Kennedy, the Donald Hall, and other baggy intro books, I find that I never feel I do justice to them. (Perrine is currently about $45 and 400+ pages in paperback.) So I've been looking for smaller and cheaper books. Among the more compact general anthologies, two strike me as superior. Sam Gwynn's *Poetry: A Pocket Anthology* is very well done. But its over-$20 price tag may be a concern for some. Far fewer poems (154 to Sam's 250) are found in Joseph Kelly's *Seagull Reader: Poems*, but it's considerably cheaper than the pocket antho--listing for $10 at the moment. I like such anthologies for multi-genre courses, such as the freshman comp/intro to lit course that I regularly teach. For creative writing courses or American lit classes I try to avoid big anthologies in favor of individual collections and the occasional themed anthology. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Straying back to Wendy's original query, I've been using a lot of Dover Thrift Editions lately, in a variety of courses. Since these sell for a dollar or two each, it's easy to put together a lot of material cheaply. One drawback, of course, is that Dover Thrifts focus on public domain work--which doesn't get you very far into the 20th century. But there are some worthy anthologies (*Great Poems By American Women*, *Imagist Poetry*, *Great Short Poems*, *Civil War Poetry*, *World War I British Poets*, *Great Sonnets*, *101 Great American Poems*) as well as individual volumes by Frost, Stevens, Yeats, Pound, Millay, Lawrence, Williams, Hardy, and earlier poets. This term in my early American Lit class I'm using the Dover "Song of Myself" in the1855 edition, as well as their collections of Emerson's & Bradstreet's poems. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== >> It's very good; it has a large number of significant poems in it, and >> they're well-selected. The index allows you to read the poems by >> author, thought the organization of the book is by poetic effect. It's >> been through several revisions since your high school days, too. >> >> >> >> Marcus Bales > From tadrichards Tue Apr 9 01:17:26 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 01:17:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query II References: <200204090408.g3948qa63455@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <000701c1df85$d6c89ac0$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Well, more and more, if I'm teaching the public domain classics, I just set up a website and post what I want them to read. It depends on the course. If it's an intro course, sometimes I'll use Oscar Williams Mentor Major British, and Carruth -- that gives a wide variety. This semester, for Lit Genres Poetry and Fiction, which is my intro class, for the poetry I used Oscar Williams, my own selection of blues lyrics, and books by Nancy Willard and Billy Collins. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Graham" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 12:09 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query II > Straying even further from Wendy's original query, I'd be interested in what > poetry anthologies the teachers among us favor, and why. > > I used Perrine's many years and editions ago. It's one of the big > monsters--which I have gravitated away from over the years. As much as I > admire the X. J. Kennedy, the Donald Hall, and other baggy intro books, I > find that I never feel I do justice to them. (Perrine is currently about > $45 and 400+ pages in paperback.) So I've been looking for smaller and > cheaper books. > > Among the more compact general anthologies, two strike me as superior. Sam > Gwynn's *Poetry: A Pocket Anthology* is very well done. But its over-$20 > price tag may be a concern for some. > > Far fewer poems (154 to Sam's 250) are found in Joseph Kelly's *Seagull > Reader: Poems*, but it's considerably cheaper than the pocket > antho--listing for $10 at the moment. > > I like such anthologies for multi-genre courses, such as the freshman > comp/intro to lit course that I regularly teach. For creative writing > courses or American lit classes I try to avoid big anthologies in favor of > individual collections and the occasional themed anthology. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > * * * * * * * * * > > Straying back to Wendy's original query, I've been using a lot of Dover > Thrift Editions lately, in a variety of courses. Since these sell for a > dollar or two each, it's easy to put together a lot of material cheaply. > > One drawback, of course, is that Dover Thrifts focus on public domain > work--which doesn't get you very far into the 20th century. > > But there are some worthy anthologies (*Great Poems By American Women*, > *Imagist Poetry*, *Great Short Poems*, *Civil War Poetry*, *World War I > British Poets*, *Great Sonnets*, *101 Great American Poems*) as well as > individual volumes by Frost, Stevens, Yeats, Pound, Millay, Lawrence, > Williams, Hardy, and earlier poets. > > This term in my early American Lit class I'm using the Dover "Song of > Myself" in the1855 edition, as well as their collections of Emerson's & > Bradstreet's poems. > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > >> It's very good; it has a large number of significant poems in it, and > >> they're well-selected. The index allows you to read the poems by > >> author, thought the organization of the book is by poetic effect. It's > >> been through several revisions since your high school days, too. > >> > >> > >> > >> Marcus Bales > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From bobgrumman Tue Apr 9 06:04:22 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 06:04:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Practical Gods by Carl Dennis References: <200204090046.g390keU66772@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <001001c1dfad$ed150ac0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Definitely Pultzer Prize material --Bob G. > The God Who Loves You > > It must be troubling for the god who loves you > To ponder how much happier you'd be today > Had you been able to glimpse your many futures. > It must be painful for him to watch you on Friday evenings > Driving home from the office, content with your week< > Three fine houses sold to deserving families< > Knowing as he does exactly what would have happened > Had you gone to your second choice for college, > Knowing the roommate you'd have been allotted > Whose ardent opinions on painting and music > Would have kindled in you a lifelong passion. > A life thirty points above the life you're living > On any scale of satisfaction. And every point > A thorn in the side of the god who loves you. > You don't want that, a large-souled man like you > Who tries to withhold from your wife the day's disappointments > So she can save her empathy for the children. > And would you want this god to compare your wife > With the woman you were destined to meet on the other campus? > It hurts you to think of him ranking the conversation > You'd have enjoyed over there higher in insight > Than the conversation you're used to. > And think how this loving god would feel > Knowing that the man next in line for your wife > Would have pleased her more than you ever will > Even on your best days, when you really try. > Can you sleep at night believing a god like that > Is pacing his cloudy bedroom, harassed by alternatives > You're spared by ignorance? The difference between what is > And what could have been will remain alive for him > Even after you cease existing, after you catch a chill > Running out in the snow for the morning paper, > Losing eleven years that the god who loves you > Will feel compelled to imagine scene by scene > Unless you come to the rescue by imagining him > No wiser than you are, no god at all, only a friend > No closer than the actual friend you made at college, > The one you haven't written in months. Sit down tonight > And write him about the life you can talk about > With a claim to authority, the life you've witnessed, > Which for all you know is the life you've chosen. > > -- Carl Dennis. *Practical Gods*. > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > > ---------- > >From: matthb > >To: > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Pulitzer Prize for Poetry: Practical Gods by Carl Dennis > >Date: Mon, Apr 8, 2002, 5:47 PM > > > >> > >> Carl Dennis, poetry, for his volume entitled "Practical Gods"; > > > >I've not read this book. I enjoyed his earlier 'Ranking the Wishes' and > >recall reading at the time that each of his books has been of a different > >voice or style. RTW was what I would call a literal appreciation of the > >everyday. What kind of book is Practical Gods? > > > >-matt > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From barr Tue Apr 9 06:44:43 2002 From: barr (Brandon Thomas Barr) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 06:44:43 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] anthology query II In-Reply-To: <200204090408.g3948qa63455@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: i prefer nelson's Anthology of Modern Poetry--very open and diverse selections. for pure breadth, i like the two volume Poems for the Millenium set by Berkeley UP. but for most intro classes, i find it best to link my syllabus to www.poets.org and then suplement from there... brandon From halvard Tue Apr 9 08:45:28 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 08:45:28 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by Others: Alice Fulton, "Your Card Read 'Poet-Mechanic'" Message-ID: Your Card Read "Poet-Mechanic" the day you came carrying a two-cylinder slice of winter sun on your back, toolcase with a greasy lock in your spoon-shaped fingers said you could do anything with your hands & went right to work, using nouns as furniture, assembling verbs into go-carts & motorcycles till they roared off, followed by a gang of sycophant adverbs. The few transitives that remained you turned into trampolines & the expletives jumped on them all day. When I watched you build "vituperate" into a Harley-Davidson, I knew it was goodbye. Now there're just the adjectives all day primping singing choruses of popsongs. I want to shake them & say "Have you no respect for the magnificent lexicon you represent?" But "magnificent" is in the bathroom humming be-bop-a-lula. --Alice Fulton, *Dance Script with Electric Ballerina*, 1983 From Serbpoet Tue Apr 9 09:28:28 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:28:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Milosz Collected Poems Message-ID: After September 11, I could read everything except the news, terrible news no longer. A perpetual reader of New Yorker, opened as by magic with a poetry by Milosz. I think that it was the first or second poetry, which followed the World Towers bombardments. Poetry provided one of these rare moments, one believes by the converted words, in which the life is, to still live, because somebody indicated so much admirably that life was still in value for continuing. I do not even to know, if Milosz specifically noted this poetry in the retort, which to the reader the affect produced of September 11 can even present to us. Nevertheless since, reading this book I have peace, not only of the fear of the destruction by accident, but the concessions of the crucial destruction of death. Anna V. From Serbpoet Tue Apr 9 09:48:35 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:48:35 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Milosz Message-ID: <184.6754e4d.29e44b33@aol.com> I will add only to the former that Milosz accumulation of poetry is the pure transcendence. I was frightened with the quality of these poems -- as the werey preselected and arranged -- as well as the translations. These poems had been really written into a language to the exception English? It does not seem therefore here. I could not anticipate the nuance or echo exactly present to the eye, which was lost in this work. Which seems to me more logical than preceding accumulations of Milosz and the poems form the free area here to it that the Nobel in Literature earned. Milosz is a Prophet and more to a soothsayer upon the modern age. With this collection, although its dollar price is high, each poem is economically necessary and intelligent; financially it does not have no value, which could estimate greatly the value of this accumulation. The most interesting aspect of this expenditure recognizes familiar poems of Milosz juxtaposed with its work later (2000). Even the most laterly work has the depth of the lived experience and the ripe perfectness of one of the more patient notes on the nature of the human condition. Its strength meets in its approximation to the elementary topics: death, love, soul. From Serbpoet Tue Apr 9 11:33:15 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:33:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Anthologies--How To Make a Poem, Mark Strand Message-ID: <7f.24354e36.29e463bb@aol.com> The Making of a Poem is the best of the present how/ to read a poetry books. Elaborated from two of our larger poets living, one Irish and woman, the other American and that male, the book they composed in the editing process comprises: 1. poetic shapes--the sonnet, the ballad, the sestina, the villanelle, blank verse, the stanza-- and 2. an Anthology. Eavan Boland and Mark Strand, such as they are, offer an introduction and it gives you every understanding of poetic lines or, to say much the same thing, the small vague shapes of thought and meditation. Thereafter , a priori, it directs the inexpert student of poems to poetic structures as they are not produced from a specific rhyme and/or metric champion but by content: the elegy, for a foremost example, or the pastoral or ode. The book then concludes with one section on opened shapes. Every simply defined subject has, as they mean us to agree, a specific side and gives "the ballad on one seen" (or, for on this transaction, pantoum)--a general form, the structure being an analogy to the shape, etc. A side or two on the history of the shape follows, like a purely famous example or a short one "to the contemporary context", as is therefore relegated to a chronological Anthologie of the exposures of numerous poems of each of the determined shapes. Everything from Shakespeare's "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" to Seamus Heaney's gay "The Haw Lantern" to Mary Jo Salter's playful "Half a Double Sonnet." The section then concludes with another brief analysis of one example of a shape. In this spot, the villanelle features a side of Elizabeth Bishop's classic , "One Art," and a blank verse gives us far too brief a take on Robert Frost's tantalizing "Directive." Itself worth the price of his admission, the poem begins: Back out of all this now too much for us, Back in a time made simply by the loss of detail, burned, dissolved, and broken off Like graveyard marble sculpture in the weather, There is a house that is no more than a house Upon a farm that is no more than a farm And in a town that is no more than a town. Such a one of a disposition as to be engaged can see the ready advantages and limitations: The definitions are held leanly and at times approach healthy poem-bites and even shorter poem-bites for a readership frequently more journalism-accustomed than familiar to the complexities of Dante (its agonies of emotion and craft). All the this is similar to an attempt to catch up to a public of the participants of the university and of the readers it generates out of them. While more information could aid anyone (additional terse comments on why certain poems in the anthology are defined as odes, pastorals, or elegies, as an exclusive example), the bottom line is the final result, that To Make a Poem deposits an excellent job of taking the inexpert reader to the inside of the intuitive thought process. Anna From Serbpoet Tue Apr 9 14:12:36 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:12:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poems by others--Vladimir Czensziskwiki Message-ID: (Pardon for an imperfect translation. Robert Bly and Mark Strand has both translated others. Perhaps some feeling is transferred to the searching, yet not so fastidious, mind in the attempt of myself.) Introduction to a Poetry I ask to take a poem and blow, as like a conch shell held up to the mouth, empty of words. Or to operate an ear upon its secret telepathy. I listen into a poem and hear it--the sea-- to eavesdrop it-- or as if to sink within the spiraled zone of the poem's underwater hearing. Silent noise which moves at the name of the author on the beach, wavelike. From GrahamD Tue Apr 9 14:55:17 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:55:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Sic Transit Pulitzer Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC0@mail.ripon.edu> Students of Gloria Mundi may be interested in this list of the winners of the Pulitzer Prize in poetry, taken from the Pulitzer site. George Dillon, we hardly knew you. . . . One surprise to me, seeing the full list, was how many multiple winners we have had. Frost, Robinson, MacLeish, Benet, Lowell, Warren, and Richard Wilbur most recently. If she had won this year, Gluck (who was nominated) would have been another. This year's nominees were Dennis, Gluck, and Franz Wright. Jurors were Donald Justice, Wendy Lesser, and Wesley McNair. -------------------------------- 1923 The Ballad of the Harp-Weaver: A Few Figs from Thistles: Eight Sonnets in American Poetry, 1922. A Miscellany by Edna St. Vincent Millay (Harper) 1924 New Hampshire: A Poem with Notes and Grace Notes by Robert Frost (Holt) 1925 The Man Who Died Twice by Edwin Arlington Robinson (Macmillan) 1926 What's O'Clock by the late Amy Lowell (Houghton) 1927 Fiddler's Farewell by Leonora Speyer (Knopf) 1928 Tristram by Edwin Arlington Robinson (Macmillan) 1929 John Browns Body by Stephen Vincent Benet (Farrar) 1930 Selected Poems by Conrad Aiken (Scribner) 1931 Collected Poems by Robert Frost (Holt) 1932 The Flowering Stone by George Dillon (Viking) 1933 Conquistador by Archibald Macleish (Houghton) 1934 Collected Verse by Robert Hillyer (Knopf) 1935 Bright Ambush by Audrey Wurdemann (John Day) 1936 Strange Holiness by Robert P. Tristram Coffin (Macmillan) 1937 A Further Range by Robert Frost (Holt) 1938 Cold Morning Sky by Marya Zaturenska (Macmillan) 1939 Selected Poems by John Gould Fletcher (Farrar) 1940 Collected Poems by Mark Van Doren (Holt) 1941 Sunderland Capture by Leonard Bacon (Harper) 1942 The Dust Which Is God by William Rose Benet (Dodd) 1943 A Witness Tree by Robert Frost (Holt) 1944 Western Star by the late Stephen Vincent Benet (Farrar) 1945 V-Letter and Other Poems by Karl Shapiro (Reynal) 1946 (No Award) 1947 Lord Weary's Castle by Robert Lowell (Harcourt) 1948 The Age of Anxiety by W. H. Auden (Random) 1949 Terror and Decorum by Peter Viereck (Scribner) 1950 Annie Allen by Gwendolyn Brooks (Harper) 1951 Complete Poems by Carl Sandburg (Harcourt) 1952 Collected Poems by Marianne Moore (Macmillan) 1953 Collected Poems 1917-1952 by Archibald MacLeish (Houghton) 1954 The Waking by Theodore Roethke (Doubleday) 1955 Collected Poems by Wallace Stevens (Knopf) 1956 Poems - North & South by Elizabeth Bishop (Houghton) 1957 Things of This World by Richard Wilbur (Harcourt) 1958 Promises: Poems 1954-1956 by Robert Penn Warren (Random) 1959 Selected Poems 1928-1958 by Stanley Kunitz (Little) 1960 Heart's Needle by W. D. Snodgrass (Knopf) 1961 Times Three: Selected Verse From Three Decades by Phyllis McGinley (Viking) 1962 Poems by Alan Dugan (Yale Univ. Press) 1963 Pictures from Breughel by the late William Carlos Williams (New Directions) 1964 At The End Of The Open Road by Louis Simpson (Wesleyan Univ. Press) 1965 77 Dream Songs by John Berryman (Farrar) 1966 Selected Poems by Richard Eberhart (New Directions) 1967 Live or Die by Anne Sexton (Houghton) 1968 The Hard Hours by Anthony Hecht (Atheneum) 1969 Of Being Numerous by George Oppen (New Directions) 1970 Untitled Subjects by Richard Howard (Atheneum) 1971 The Carrier of Ladders by William S. Merwin (Atheneum) 1972 Collected Poems by James Wright (Wesleyan Univ. Press) 1973 Up Country by Maxine Kumin (Harper) 1974 The Dolphin by Robert Lowell (Farrar) 1975 Turtle Island by Gary Snyder (New Directions) 1976 Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror by John Ashbery (Viking) 1977 Divine Comedies by James Merrill (Atheneum) 1978 Collected Poems by Howard Nemerov (Univ. of Chicago) 1979 Now and Then by Robert Penn Warren (Random) 1980 Selected Poems by Donald Justice (Atheneum) 1981 The Morning of the Poem by James Schuyler (Farrar, Straus) 1982 The Collected Poems by the late Sylvia Plath (a posthumous publication) (Harper & Row) 1983 Selected Poems by Galway Kinnell (Houghton Mifflin) 1984 American Primitive by Mary Oliver (Atlantic-Little, Brown) 1985 Yin by Carolyn Kizer (BOA Editions) 1986 The Flying Change by Henry Taylor (Louisiana State University Press) 1987 Thomas and Beulah by Rita Dove (Carnegie-Mellon University Press) 1988 Partial Accounts: New and Selected Poems by William Meredith (Alfred A. Knopf) 1989 New and Collected Poems by Richard Wilbur (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich) 1990 The World Doesn't End by Charles Simic (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich) 1991 Near Changes by Mona Van Duyn (Alfred A. Knopf) 1992 Selected Poems by James Tate (Wesleyan University Press) 1993 The Wild Iris by Louise Gluck (The Ecco Press) 1994 Neon Vernacular: New and Selected Poems by Yusef Komunyakaa (Wesleyan University Press/University Press of New England) 1995 The Simple Truth by Philip Levine (Alfred A. Knopf) 1996 The Dream of the Unified Field by Jorie Graham (The Ecco Press) 1997 Alive Together: New and Selected Poems by Lisel Mueller (Louisiana State University Press) 1998 Black Zodiac by Charles Wright (Farrar, Straus & Giroux) 1999 Blizzard of One by Mark Strand (Alfred A. Knopf) 2000 Repair by C.K. Williams (Farrar, Straus and Giroux) 2001 Different Hours by Stephen Dunn (W.W. Norton & Company) 2002 Practical Gods by Carl Dennis (Penguin Books) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From languagethief Tue Apr 9 15:20:43 2002 From: languagethief (The Old Mole) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 12:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Sic Transit Pulitzer In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC0@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <20020409192043.18192.qmail@web12201.mail.yahoo.com> It's not such a bad list. It would be interesting to see who was on the short lists that the winners beat out. --- "Graham, David" wrote: > Students of Gloria Mundi may be interested in this > list of the winners of > the Pulitzer Prize in poetry, taken from the > Pulitzer site. George Dillon, > we hardly knew you. . . . > > One surprise to me, seeing the full list, was how > many multiple winners we > have had. Frost, Robinson, MacLeish, Benet, Lowell, > Warren, and Richard > Wilbur most recently. If she had won this year, > Gluck (who was nominated) > would have been another. > > This year's nominees were Dennis, Gluck, and Franz > Wright. Jurors were > Donald Justice, Wendy Lesser, and Wesley McNair. > > -------------------------------- > 1923 The Ballad of the Harp-Weaver: A Few Figs from > Thistles: Eight Sonnets > in American Poetry, 1922. A Miscellany by Edna St. > Vincent Millay (Harper) > > 1924 New Hampshire: A Poem with Notes and Grace > Notes by Robert Frost (Holt) > > 1925 The Man Who Died Twice by Edwin Arlington > Robinson (Macmillan) > > 1926 What's O'Clock by the late Amy Lowell > (Houghton) > > 1927 Fiddler's Farewell by Leonora Speyer (Knopf) > > 1928 Tristram by Edwin Arlington Robinson > (Macmillan) > > 1929 John Browns Body by Stephen Vincent Benet > (Farrar) > > 1930 Selected Poems by Conrad Aiken (Scribner) > > 1931 Collected Poems by Robert Frost (Holt) > > 1932 The Flowering Stone by George Dillon (Viking) > > 1933 Conquistador by Archibald Macleish (Houghton) > > 1934 Collected Verse by Robert Hillyer (Knopf) > 1935 Bright Ambush by Audrey Wurdemann (John Day) > > 1936 Strange Holiness by Robert P. Tristram Coffin > (Macmillan) > > 1937 A Further Range by Robert Frost (Holt) > > 1938 Cold Morning Sky by Marya Zaturenska > (Macmillan) > > 1939 Selected Poems by John Gould Fletcher (Farrar) > > 1940 Collected Poems by Mark Van Doren (Holt) > > 1941 Sunderland Capture by Leonard Bacon (Harper) > > 1942 The Dust Which Is God by William Rose Benet > (Dodd) > > 1943 A Witness Tree by Robert Frost (Holt) > > 1944 Western Star by the late Stephen Vincent Benet > (Farrar) > > 1945 V-Letter and Other Poems by Karl Shapiro > (Reynal) > > 1946 (No Award) > > 1947 Lord Weary's Castle by Robert Lowell (Harcourt) > > 1948 The Age of Anxiety by W. H. Auden (Random) > > 1949 Terror and Decorum by Peter Viereck (Scribner) > > 1950 Annie Allen by Gwendolyn Brooks (Harper) > > 1951 Complete Poems by Carl Sandburg (Harcourt) > > 1952 Collected Poems by Marianne Moore (Macmillan) > > 1953 Collected Poems 1917-1952 by Archibald MacLeish > (Houghton) > > 1954 The Waking by Theodore Roethke (Doubleday) > > 1955 Collected Poems by Wallace Stevens (Knopf) > > 1956 Poems - North & South by Elizabeth Bishop > (Houghton) > > 1957 Things of This World by Richard Wilbur > (Harcourt) > > 1958 Promises: Poems 1954-1956 by Robert Penn Warren > (Random) > > 1959 Selected Poems 1928-1958 by Stanley Kunitz > (Little) > > 1960 Heart's Needle by W. D. Snodgrass (Knopf) > > 1961 Times Three: Selected Verse From Three Decades > by Phyllis McGinley > (Viking) > > 1962 Poems by Alan Dugan (Yale Univ. Press) > > 1963 Pictures from Breughel by the late William > Carlos Williams (New > Directions) > > 1964 At The End Of The Open Road by Louis Simpson > (Wesleyan Univ. Press) > > 1965 77 Dream Songs by John Berryman (Farrar) > > 1966 Selected Poems by Richard Eberhart (New > Directions) > > 1967 Live or Die by Anne Sexton (Houghton) > > 1968 The Hard Hours by Anthony Hecht (Atheneum) > > 1969 Of Being Numerous by George Oppen (New > Directions) > > 1970 Untitled Subjects by Richard Howard (Atheneum) > > 1971 The Carrier of Ladders by William S. Merwin > (Atheneum) > > 1972 Collected Poems by James Wright (Wesleyan Univ. > Press) > > 1973 Up Country by Maxine Kumin (Harper) > > 1974 The Dolphin by Robert Lowell (Farrar) > > 1975 Turtle Island by Gary Snyder (New Directions) > > 1976 Self-Portrait in a Convex Mirror by John > Ashbery (Viking) > > 1977 Divine Comedies by James Merrill (Atheneum) > > 1978 Collected Poems by Howard Nemerov (Univ. of > Chicago) > > 1979 Now and Then by Robert Penn Warren (Random) > > 1980 Selected Poems by Donald Justice (Atheneum) > > 1981 The Morning of the Poem by James Schuyler > (Farrar, Straus) > > 1982 The Collected Poems by the late Sylvia Plath (a > posthumous publication) > (Harper & Row) > > 1983 Selected Poems by Galway Kinnell (Houghton > Mifflin) > > 1984 American Primitive by Mary Oliver > (Atlantic-Little, Brown) > > 1985 Yin by Carolyn Kizer (BOA Editions) 1986 > > The Flying Change by Henry Taylor (Louisiana State > University Press) > > 1987 Thomas and Beulah by Rita Dove (Carnegie-Mellon > University Press) > > 1988 Partial Accounts: New and Selected Poems by > William Meredith (Alfred A. > Knopf) > > 1989 New and Collected Poems by Richard Wilbur > (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich) > > 1990 The World Doesn't End by Charles Simic > (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich) > > 1991 Near Changes by Mona Van Duyn (Alfred A. Knopf) > > 1992 Selected Poems by James Tate (Wesleyan > University Press) > > 1993 The Wild Iris by Louise Gluck (The Ecco Press) > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From mhb Tue Apr 9 15:26:56 2002 From: mhb (matthb) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 12:26:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Practical Gods by Carl Dennis In-Reply-To: <200204090046.g390keU66772@mx17.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: > From: "David Graham" > > Unless you come to the rescue by imagining him > No wiser than you are, no god at all, only a friend > No closer than the actual friend you made at college, > The one you haven't written in months. Sit down tonight > And write him about the life you can talk about > With a claim to authority, the life you've witnessed, > Which for all you know is the life you've chosen. Thank you, David, for posting this. The line and the voice are similar to Ranking the Wishes. While reading, I was becoming distressed that Dennis was laying the elitism on a bit thick, but at the end he's as human, as kind as I remember him. -matt From Simon Tue Apr 9 17:22:49 2002 From: Simon (Simon_Beth) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 16:22:49 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Practical Gods by Carl Dennis Message-ID: Stopping by some bookstores on a sunny evening Practical Gods is sold out in Madison WI. beth From DICK Tue Apr 9 18:34:07 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 02 18:34:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room Message-ID: <200204092234.g39MYSM33820@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> The April issue of Poetry has a long review by Dennis O'Driscoll, which I highly recommend. Compares Collins' spoof of the sonnet with Szymborska's acceptance speech. Also points out similarities with Simic. O'Driscoll appreciates Collins' wit and erudition. BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. Unless the poem is humorous, e.g., "Twas brillig and the slithy toves." Richard From bobgrumman Tue Apr 9 19:15:27 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:15:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room References: <200204092234.g39MYSM33820@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> Message-ID: <009201c1e01c$6fd942a0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. I thought: Emily jingle as I read the one poem I read of Hope's. Wasn't in pentameter, was it? --Bob G. From odysseus34 Tue Apr 9 21:40:17 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 18:40:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room References: <200204092234.g39MYSM33820@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> Message-ID: <3CB397FD.51BB8D9F@earthlink.net> DICK at watson.ibm.com wrote: > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite for _you_ then. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From marcus Tue Apr 9 23:07:25 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:07:25 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room In-Reply-To: <3CB397FD.51BB8D9F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB3742D.26522.AC4BA@localhost> > > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. > > Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite > for _you_ then. > Moira Russell > Seattle, WA You want Vermont Granite instead of 1/2" clear glass? No problem. Do we have a deal, then? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From marcus Wed Apr 10 07:28:36 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:28:36 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List In-Reply-To: <3CB397FD.51BB8D9F@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB3E9A4.13517.34FD75@localhost> I've found 243 control keys. Just memorize them like I do. Use a handy mnemonic such as "pages 627, 628 and 3 of Finnegans Wake". Command Name / Modifiers / Key / Menu All Caps Ctrl+Shift+ A Annotation Alt+Ctrl+ M App Maximize Alt+ F10 App Restore Alt+ F5 Apply Heading1 Alt+Ctrl+ 1 Apply Heading2 Alt+Ctrl+ 2 Apply Heading3 Alt+Ctrl+ 3 Apply List Bullet Ctrl+Shift+ L Auto Format Alt+Ctrl+ K Auto Text F3 Auto Text Alt+Ctrl+ V Bold Ctrl+ B Bold Ctrl+Shift+ B Bookmark Ctrl+Shift+ F5 Insert Browse Next Ctrl+ Page Down Browse Prev Ctrl+ Page Up Browse Sel Alt+Ctrl+ Home Cancel Esc Center Para Ctrl+ E Change Case Shift+ F3 Char Left Left Char Left Extend Shift+ Left Char Right Right Char Right Extend Shift+ Right Clear Del Edit Close or Exit Alt+ F4 Close Pane Alt+Shift+ C Column Break Ctrl+Shift+ Return Column Select Ctrl+Shift+ F8 Copy Ctrl+ C Copy Ctrl+ Insert Copy Format Ctrl+Shift+ C Copy Text Shift+ F2 Create Auto Text Alt+ F3 Customize Add Menu Shortcut Alt+Ctrl+ = Customize Keyboard Shortcut Alt+Ctrl+ Num + Customize Remove Menu Shortcut Alt+Ctrl+ - Cut Ctrl+ X Cut Shift+ Del Date Field Alt+Shift+ D Delete Back Word Ctrl+ Backspace Delete Word Ctrl+ Del Dictionary Alt+Shift+ F7 Do Field Click Alt+Shift+ F9 Doc Close Ctrl+ W Doc Close Ctrl+ F4 Doc Maximize Ctrl+ F10 Doc Move Ctrl+ F7 Doc Restore Ctrl+ F5 Doc Size Ctrl+ F8 Doc Split Alt+Ctrl+ S Window Double Underline Ctrl+Shift+ D End of Column Alt+ Page Down End of Column Alt+Shift+ Page Down End of Doc Extend Ctrl+Shift+ End End of Document Ctrl+ End End of Line End End of Line Extend Shift+ End End of Row Alt+ End End of Row Alt+Shift+ End End of Window Alt+Ctrl+ Page Down End of Window Extend Alt+Ctrl+Shift+ Page Down Endnote Now Alt+Ctrl+ D Field Chars Ctrl+ F9 Field Codes Alt+ F9 Find Ctrl+ F Font Ctrl+ D Font Ctrl+Shift+ F Font Size Select Ctrl+Shift+ P Footnote Now Alt+Ctrl+ F Go Back Shift+ F5 Go Back Alt+Ctrl+ Z Go To Ctrl+ G Edit Go To F5 Edit Grow Font Ctrl+Shift+ . Grow Font One Point Ctrl+ ] Hanging Indent Ctrl+ T Header Footer Link Alt+Shift+ R Help F1 Hidden Ctrl+Shift+ H Hyperlink Ctrl+ K Indent Ctrl+ M Italic Ctrl+ I Italic Ctrl+Shift+ I Justify Para Ctrl+ J Left Para Ctrl+ L Line Down Down Line Down Extend Shift+ Down Line Up Up Line Up Extend Shift+ Up List Num Field Alt+Ctrl+ L Lock Fields Ctrl+ 3 Lock Fields Ctrl+ F11 Macro Alt+ F8 Mail Merge Check Alt+Shift+ K Mail Merge Edit Data Source Alt+Shift+ E Mail Merge to Doc Alt+Shift+ N Mail Merge to Printer Alt+Shift+ M Mark Citation Alt+Shift+ I Mark Index Entry Alt+Shift+ X Mark Table of Contents Entry Alt+Shift+ O Menu Mode F10 Merge Field Alt+Shift+ F Microsoft Script Editor Alt+Shift+ F11 Microsoft System Info Alt+Ctrl+ F1 Move Text F2 New Ctrl+ N File Next Cell Tab Next Field F11 Next Field Alt+ F1 Next Misspelling Alt+ F7 Next Object Alt+ Down Next Window Ctrl+ F6 Next Window Alt+ F6 Normal Alt+Ctrl+ N View Normal Style Ctrl+Shift+ N Normal Style Alt+Shift+ Clear (Num 5) Open Ctrl+ O Open Ctrl+ F12 Open Alt+Ctrl+ F2 Open or Close Up Para Ctrl+ 0 Other Pane F6 Other Pane Shift+ F6 Outline Alt+Ctrl+ O Outline Collapse Alt+Shift+ - Outline Collapse Alt+Shift+ Num - Outline Demote Alt+Shift+ Right Outline Expand Alt+Shift+ = Outline Expand Alt+Shift+ Num + Outline Move Down Alt+Shift+ Down Outline Move Up Alt+Shift+ Up Outline Promote Alt+Shift+ Left Outline Show First Line Alt+Shift+ L Overtype Insert Page Alt+Ctrl+ P View Page Break Ctrl+ Return Page Down Page Down Page Down Extend Shift+ Page Down Page Field Alt+Shift+ P Page Up Page Up Page Up Extend Shift+ Page Up Para Down Ctrl+ Down Para Down Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Down Para Up Ctrl+ Up Para Up Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Up Paste Insert Paste Ctrl+ V Paste Shift+ Insert Paste Format Ctrl+Shift+ V Prev Cell Shift+ Tab Prev Field Shift+ F11 Prev Field Alt+Shift+ F1 Prev Object Alt+ Up Prev Window Ctrl+Shift+ F6 Prev Window Alt+Shift+ F6 Print Ctrl+ P Print Ctrl+Shift+ F12 Print Preview Ctrl+ F2 Print Preview Alt+Ctrl+ I Proofing F7 Redo Alt+Shift+ Backspace Redo or Repeat Ctrl+ Y Edit Redo or Repeat F4 Edit Redo or Repeat Alt+ Return Edit Repeat Find Shift+ F4 Repeat Find Alt+Ctrl+ Y Replace Ctrl+ H Edit Reset Char Ctrl+ Space Reset Char Ctrl+Shift+ Z Reset Para Ctrl+ Q Revision Marks Toggle Ctrl+Shift+ E Right Para Ctrl+ R Save Ctrl+ S Save Shift+ F12 Save Alt+Shift+ F2 Save As F12 File Select All Ctrl+ A Edit Select All Ctrl+ Clear (Num 5) Edit Select All Ctrl+ Num 5 Edit Select Table Alt+ Clear (Num 5) Toolbar 32778 Show All Ctrl+Shift+ 8 Show All Headings Alt+Shift+ A Show All Headings Alt+Shift+ A Show Heading1 Alt+Shift+ 1 Show Heading2 Alt+Shift+ 2 Show Heading3 Alt+Shift+ 3 Show Heading4 Alt+Shift+ 4 Show Heading5 Alt+Shift+ 5 Show Heading6 Alt+Shift+ 6 Show Heading7 Alt+Shift+ 7 Show Heading8 Alt+Shift+ 8 Show Heading9 Alt+Shift+ 9 Shrink Font Ctrl+Shift+ , Shrink Font One Point Ctrl+ Shrink Selection Shift+ F8 Small Caps Ctrl+Shift+ K Space Para1 Ctrl+ 1 Space Para15 Ctrl+ 5 Space Para2 Ctrl+ 2 Spike Ctrl+Shift+ F3 Spike Ctrl+ F3 Start of Column Alt+ Page Up Start of Column Alt+Shift+ Page Up Start of Doc Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Home Start of Document Ctrl+ Home Start of Line Home Start of Line Extend Shift+ Home Start of Row Alt+ Home Start of Row Alt+Shift+ Home Start of Window Alt+Ctrl+ Page Up Start of Window Extend Alt+Ctrl+Shift+ Page Up Style Ctrl+Shift+ S Subscript Ctrl+ = Superscript Ctrl+Shift+ = Symbol Font Ctrl+Shift+ Q Symbol: 61613 F8 Thesaurus Shift+ F7 Synonym Time Field Alt+Shift+ T Toggle Field Display Shift+ F9 Toggle Master Subdocs Ctrl+ \ Tool Shift+ F1 Un Hang Ctrl+Shift+ T Un Indent Ctrl+Shift+ M Underline Ctrl+ U Underline Ctrl+Shift+ U Undo Ctrl+ Z Undo Alt+ Backspace Unlink Fields Ctrl+ 6 Unlink Fields Ctrl+Shift+ F9 Unlock Fields Ctrl+ 4 Unlock Fields Ctrl+Shift+ F11 Update Auto Format Alt+Ctrl+ U Update Fields F9 Update Fields Alt+Shift+ U Update Source Ctrl+Shift+ F7 VBCode Alt+ F11 Web Go Back Alt+ Left Web Go Forward Alt+ Right Word Left Ctrl+ Left Word Left Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Left Word Right Ctrl+ Right Word Right Extend Ctrl+Shift+ Right Word Underline Ctrl+Shift+ W Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Robtberner Wed Apr 10 08:29:58 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:29:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] readings Message-ID: <140.c9e2e4b.29e58a46@aol.com> a couple of readings i thought people in this neck of the woods might find interesting: Sat, 4-13-02--Marilyn Nelson, at the public library, 25 Main St., Newtown, Conn. Ms. Nelson is the headliner of a program that's scheduled to run from 1-4 PM. As near as I can tell, she'll be reading in the first half of the program. Sun, 6-l6-02--Michael Harper and Rachel Harper, at the Hudson Valley Writers" Center, 300 Riverside Drive, Sleepy Hollow, New York, in the Philipse Manor Railroad Station, 3 PM; suggested donation $5. Father and daughter reading together on Father's Day. Should be fun. Robert Berner From halvard Wed Apr 10 10:39:49 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:39:49 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List In-Reply-To: <3CB3E9A4.13517.34FD75@localhost> Message-ID: This is definitely a handy-dandy list, Marcus. I'll keep it at hand, though I'm sure I'll not memorize more than a handful of them. Many thanks for sending them, though. I *know* that MS Word has bells and whistles I haven't dreamt of yet. Your list has shown me three or four useful ones already. Hal "When you come to a fork in the road-- take it!" --Yogi Berra Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { I've found 243 control keys. Just memorize them like I do. Use a handy { mnemonic such as "pages 627, 628 and 3 of Finnegans Wake". { { Command Name / Modifiers / Key / Menu { { All Caps Ctrl+Shift+ A { Annotation Alt+Ctrl+ M From GrahamD Wed Apr 10 10:41:18 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:41:18 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Text/Australian Assoc. of Writing Programs Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC7@mail.ripon.edu> Teachers of creative writing might be interested to look at the online journal TEXT, put out by the Australian Association of Writing Programs. It looks to be a fairly scholarly collection of online articles on creative writing pedagogy and associated academic issues. http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/index.htm ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From DICK Wed Apr 10 10:39:36 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 02 10:39:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] The beat of A.D. Hope Message-ID: <200204101448.g3AEmxM35526@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> >>> BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter >>> bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, >>> after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, >>> and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. >> >> >>I thought: Emily jingle as I read the one poem I read of >>Hope's. Wasn't in pentameter, was it? >> >> Bob G. Highly possible that it wasn't. The "beat beat beat of the tom-toms" (THank you, Cole Porter) was so loud I couldn't hear myself count. >>Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite >>for _you_ then. >> >>Moira Russell Yep. But that's OK. We don't all have to like the same thing. Richard From Thom424 Wed Apr 10 11:27:58 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:27:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Text/Australian Assoc. of Writing Programs Message-ID: <23C3F401.045B3457.001A46F6@aol.com> The are a number of inexpensive (as well as some expensive) copies of A.D. Hope's various collections at . Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From sholman Wed Apr 10 11:30:32 2002 From: sholman (Shannon Holman) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:30:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 4/10/02 10:39 AM, Halvard Johnson at halvard at earthlink.net wrote: > This is definitely a handy-dandy list, Marcus. And here I thought it was a found poem. -- Shannon Holman work: 212.545.6089 home: 718.638.1239 sholman at mac.com -- http://www.onemississippi.com From mhb Wed Apr 10 12:03:37 2002 From: mhb (matthb) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:03:37 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Donald Hall on Fresh Air In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Right now, at least in Sacramento. From GrahamD Wed Apr 10 12:36:41 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:36:41 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Franz Wright Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC9@mail.ripon.edu> Here's a poem from one of the other Pulitzer nominated collections for this year: The Poem Said The poem said never love anything Not even you? I asked and it answered especially me If you must, love not living with hope or not living taste this and remember not yet being-- Especially me I am just you If you must, like and coldly admire my cold stars shit for brains love what I stand for not me the leopard the beautiful death who puts on his spotted robe when he goes to his chosen, the what was the not now the what will be Like suddenly using a dead friend's expression Make yourself useful while there is time while there is still light and time from THE BEFORELIFE Copyright(c)2001 by Franz Wright ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From gmcvay Wed Apr 10 19:33:44 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:33:44 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List References: <3CB3E9A4.13517.34FD75@localhost> Message-ID: <3CB4CBD3.57742914@patriot.net> Dear Marcus, If you stumble across a like list for the Mac (where "alt" and "control" mostly, though not reliably, end up as "option" and "command" respectively), would you let me know? Contrarian computer user to the last--Gwyn From grahamd Wed Apr 10 22:30:38 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:30:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis Message-ID: <200204110229.g3B2Td879687@mx4.mx.voyager.net> Carl Dennis was interviewed tonight on the Jim Lehrer News Hour on PBS. Video and audio feeds are available on the web: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/ ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From CobbCoStudioArts Thu Apr 11 08:45:31 2002 From: CobbCoStudioArts (Robert R.Cobb) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room Message-ID: <20020411124531.94DEF3ED3@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From sholman Thu Apr 11 10:33:24 2002 From: sholman (Shannon Holman) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:33:24 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Control Key List In-Reply-To: <3CB4CBD3.57742914@patriot.net> Message-ID: on 4/10/02 7:33 PM, Gwyn McVay at gmcvay at patriot.net wrote: > Dear Marcus, > > If you stumble across a like list for the Mac (where "alt" and "control" > mostly, though not reliably, end up as "option" and "command" > respectively), would you let me know? > polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/lss/infolab/PDF/mac_shortcuts.pdf has shortcuts for special characters (and you're all special character). http://comtel.fortlewis.edu/labs/Tutorials/Macintosh/macshortcutkeys.pdf has basic shortcut keys http://www.colby.edu/info.tech/howtos/tips.html system and application level keys. Let me know if you want more. Shannon -- Shannon Holman work: 212.545.6089 home: 718.638.1239 sholman at mac.com -- http://www.onemississippi.com From MillB Thu Apr 11 15:33:23 2002 From: MillB (MillB at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:33:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis Message-ID: <195.52c0ac7.29e73f03@aol.com> Greetings: Thanks for the info about the interview. Carl Dennis is a wonderful poet and a nice and generous human being as well. Mill From odysseus34 Fri Apr 12 00:30:40 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:30:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room References: <3CB3742D.26522.AC4BA@localhost> Message-ID: <3CB662EE.E5B6C019@earthlink.net> Marcus Bales wrote: > > > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > > > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > > > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > > > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. > > > > Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite > > for _you_ then. > > Moira Russell > > Seattle, WA > > You want Vermont Granite instead of 1/2" clear glass? No > problem. Do we have a deal, then? Enn. Oh. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From marcus Fri Apr 12 08:43:14 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:43:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Another review of Sailing Alone Around the Room In-Reply-To: <3CB662EE.E5B6C019@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CB69E22.17304.1127E1@localhost> > > > > BTW - was anyone else annoyed by the "iambic pentameter > > > > bongos" in A.D. Hope's poems? I find the unvaried beat, > > > > after a very short while, distracting and disturbing, > > > > and loose the meaning, if any, in the insistent meter. > > > > > > Well jeez, no Hope lines of 20 or less sandblasted into Vermont granite > > > for _you_ then. > > > Moira Russell > > > Seattle, WA > > > > You want Vermont Granite instead of 1/2" clear glass? No > > problem. Do we have a deal, then? > Moira Russell > Enn. > Oh. Oh Ell. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From JforJames Fri Apr 12 10:14:39 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:14:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Brad Leithauser's new novel-in-verse. Message-ID: <49.1bb2e739.29e845cf@aol.com> April 18: Brad Leithauser - The following are the opening stanzas from DARLINGTON'S FALL, Brad Leithauser's new novel-in-verse. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The hand hungers: the jewel of the world, And his for the taking. In all his long Life of looking, never once beheld A thing so fine--never wanted anything Quite so much as this astonishing Being, this stout green glittering Prize . . . But the getting his hands on it, The business of the capturing, That will be dicey (difficult, delicate), With so many ways everything can go wrong . . . Hands are hungry and with hungry hands You must work extra hard to keep Your wits about you, to be slow and quick At once, as the situation demands. (When you're so full of wanting, it's no small trick.) Boil down all the trees in the forest until They form a single cup of resin, still You would never concoct a green So bright, so dark, so dizzyingly deep As this, the purest color he has ever seen. The jewel of the world: conceived In mud and muck, then dropped on a fallen log Down at the edge of the pond. He can't stop Even to remove his shoes--no time-- Wades right in, feet sucked at by the slime . . . The trouble here: It's that the frog (The hugest frog in all the world) can get away So many different ways, can simply drop-- Flop!--and be gone, never to be retrieved. Oh, so many ways for things to go astray! He slides toward it, heart about to burst In his mouth, heart full in his hands. It must be A dream . . . that?s what he'd thought at first, Spotting it: so big, so green, and right there. That was the amazing thing: the thing?s reality. The wish formed instantly, deep as any prayer: Let me get my hands on him! Here's the prize He's waited all his life for: the overfull Eyes and barrel chest, the kingly receding skull, The bulging banked power in the thighs . . . A sliding step--a sliding step--and nearly Nearly there. Inside his chest, desire suspends A weight, a weight connected to a spring, His heart like a mousetrap, waiting To snap shut with an absolutely desolating Empty clap . . . How will he bear it if the thing Escapes?--oh, when he wants it so dearly, Never wanted anything so much! And almost there, now he can all but touch-- A hungry beggar?s hand extends . . . He lunges, just as the frog leaps, And right there, in midair, in midair's where The two creatures (hands of the one, brute Miraculous torso of the other) lock Together, a solid thumping shock That races up his arm like a flare, Crackles and cleanses and expands As it climbs, torching his brain. (And the fire keeps Burning: decades hence, when his fleet-foot Boyhood's dim, he'll recall, with tingling hands, The summer morning when his little hands Clamped on the creature and held it whole, Feeling in that moment so rich a press Of feeling, perhaps no other touch (Or maybe one?--one only?--the one to come Four decades on?) ever will thrill him quite so much. Oh, every cell in his body understands What he himself cannot begin to guess: This instant lasts forever, there are some Encounters that configure your soul.) The thing squirms-- squirms half loose, slips, But his fingers grapple: one leg, got it, one Big back leg grasped tight, as his other hand, scooping Upward, catches it from below, grips It round the chest: the booming noble pulse Yes in his palm: he has it, it?s now his great good luck To have it: the jewel of the world--and where else But in the warm chalice of his hands? A whooping Howl rips free of his throat, winging like a duck Over the trees, straight at the sun. from DARLINGTON'S FALL Copyright (c) 2002 by Brad Leithauser ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Brad Leithauser writes: I think the happiest I've ever been, as a writer, was while composing my new book, a novel in verse, DARLINGTON'S FALL. In the fourth chapter, the book's hero, an imaginary Midwestern naturalist named Russel Darlington, travels to the remote island of Ponape in Micronesia in the year 1912. He's searching for butterflies. In 1996, I went to Ponape too, searching for Darlington--searching, that is, for some idea of what it would be like to have arrived on this blazing, jungly, murmurous island some eighty years before. Ponape was startlingly gorgeous--and yet I felt compelled to spend long hours cooped up inside, removed from all nature, sifting through the archives the Jesuit missionaries had assembled. Blurry photographs, customs forms, bills of lading, baptismal records--and then I found it: an anonymous report, dated 1910, by a visitor to the island, detailing what he saw as he wandered the island on his first few days... Clearly the makings of a novel--but a novel in verse? Why did I tell my tale so indirectly, in stanzas and rhyme? As the author of five previous novels and four books of poetry, I might answer that I've always been interested in combining the two genres. But I think it would be more accurate to say that writing a novel in verse didn't feel indirect at all: I was chasing after butterflies, after all the beauties of nature, and the net of a stanza seemed the most efficient way of going after them. More Brad Leithauser: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/leithauser/poem.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dbarone Fri Apr 12 10:29:33 2002 From: dbarone (dbarone) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:29:33 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <0D9D00A18A08ED47875BD976E134249008D350@sjcmail.sjc.edu> Does anyone know of an antholgy of long poems or an anthology of poem sequences? It seems to me that those were two major modes of twentieth century writing. I recall that M. L. Rosenthal, the Yeats scholar, wrote a book in which he argued that the sequence was the central form of poetic modernism. At any rate, I couldn't recall any anthologies devoted to either and that seems like a gap to me in the mountains of anthologies. Dennis Barone From grahamd Fri Apr 12 10:39:30 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:39:30 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <200204121439.g3CEd1Z93826@mx16.mx.voyager.net> Good question. There's a lovely but out-of-print 1966 Penguin anthology of British long poems: *Longer Contemporary Poems*, ed. David Wright. It includes Kavanagh's "Great Hunger," Auden's "Letter to Lord Byron," W. S. Graham's "The Nightfishing," Hugh MacDiarmid's "On a Raised Beach," and others. The David Young/Stuart Friebert contemporary American anthology, as I recall, includes more than the usual number of longer poems and sequences--though "long" in this context is hardly long in any Wordsworthian sense. One of the few anthologies to include Denise Levertov's "Olga Poems," for instance. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: dbarone >To: "'new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu'" >Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies >Date: Fri, Apr 12, 2002, 9:29 AM > > > >Does anyone know of an antholgy of long poems or an anthology of poem >sequences? It seems to me that those were two major modes of twentieth >century writing. I recall that M. L. Rosenthal, the Yeats scholar, wrote a >book in which he argued that the sequence was the central form of poetic >modernism. At any rate, I couldn't recall any anthologies devoted to either >and that seems like a gap to me in the mountains of anthologies. > >Dennis Barone From Thom424 Fri Apr 12 11:08:10 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:08:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <33DDFE97.1B3C7A35.001A46F6@aol.com> from the promo material: Cary Nelson's _Anthology of Modern American Poetry_ is the first anthology to give full treatment to American long poems and poem sequences. T.S. Eliot's The Waste Land, Gertrude Stein's "Patriarchal Poetry," William Carlos Williams's The Descent of Winter, Edna St. Vincent Millay's "Sonnets from an Ungrafted Tree," Muriel Rukeyser's "The Book of the Dead," Melvin Tolson's Libretto for the Republic of Liberia, Theodore Roethke's "North American Sequence," Gwendolyn Brooks's "Gay Chaps at the Bar," Kenneth Rexroth's "The Love Poems of Marichiko," both Allen Ginsberg's "Howl" and his "Wichita Vortex Sutra," and both Adrienne Rich's "Shooting Script" and her "Twenty-One Love Poems" are all included in their entirety. Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From Thom424 Fri Apr 12 11:20:10 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:20:10 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <310207DF.424B1DDD.001A46F6@aol.com> Sorry not to include this in my previous post. The work in this anthology is limited to Canadian authors. I've been directing a tutorial on the "long poem" with one of our MFA students, and I have found this title useful. _The New Long Poem Anthology_ Second Edition. Edited by Sharon Thesen Talon Press. ISBN 0-88922-438-0; $29.95 Canada / $24.95 U.S.A. ?2000; 384 pp. "The long poem, nowadays, is the talk of various discourses with each other. The singing talker." "A poem is a small painting, a long poem is a mural." The second edition of The New Long Poem Anthology is an irreplaceable roadmap of a vital and powerful poetic form, a record of the most seductive and sustained 'singing talk' in postmodern Canadian writing. Edited by Sharon Thesen, this collection of long poems, longer works, sequential poems, extended poems, serial, lengthy or longish poems extend the geography of postmodern Canadian poetry as it was laid out in 1979, exemplifying Michael Ondaatje's early observation that "the most interesting work being done by poets today can be found within the structure of the long poem." With a statement of poetics and short bibliography from each author, the second edition of The New Long Poem Anthology includes work by: Anne Carson Christopher Dewdney Lisa Robertson Jeff Derkson Don McKay Erin Moure Patrick Friesen Steve McCaffery George Bowering Dionne Brand Louis Dudek Diana Hartog Roy Kiyooka Robert Kroetsch Daphne Marlatt David McFadden Barry McKinnon bpNichol Michael Ondaatje Lola Lemire Tostevin Fred Wah Phyllis Webb Robin Blaser Yolande Villemaire Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From Jtcanaday Fri Apr 12 12:13:08 2002 From: Jtcanaday (Jtcanaday at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:13:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poet of the Month Message-ID: The editors of PoetryNet are pleased to announce that April's Poet of the Month is Jim Murphy. Come visit us, read some of Jim's poetry, and browse through our extensive Poet of the Month Archive. http://members.aol.com/poetrynet/index.html Also, in the shameless self-promotion category, my own first book of poems, The Invisible World (winner of last year's Walt Whitman Award from the Academy of American Poets), is just out from LSU Press. It is set in Jordan, based on a year I spent there just after the Gulf War. I'd love to hear reactions from anyone on the list. With best wishes, and thanks for the consistently stimulating conversations, John Canaday From Serbpoet Fri Apr 12 12:20:35 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:20:35 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Carl Dennis Message-ID: <1ad.9ba9b5.29e86353@aol.com> The title Dennis ' most clearly, canny and warmly merry figure eight best seller is a little oxymoron and a Gauntlet, which is thrown easily down with the same masses. Self mockery and panache are here. Which I would like to be known is why is not the Gods, which are accomodating, more useful? American poetry which is not enough hygenic (Ginsberg, plus others) needs more purity of feeling such as thus. Anna From JforJames Fri Apr 12 13:29:22 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:29:22 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] DAVOREN HANNA POETRY COMPETITION Message-ID: <137.c7070ed.29e87372@aol.com> US POET LAUREATE BILLY COLLINS AND CAROL ANN DUFFY > TO CO-JUDGE THE DAVOREN HANNA POETRY COMPETITION 2002 > > > The Davoren Hanna Poetry Competition is now accepting submissions for this > years contest. Sponsored by Eason Bookshops (Ireland's largest chain of > book stores) and The Muse Cafes, the competition will be judged this year > by acclaimed Scottish poet Carol Ann Duffy, widely regarded as one of > Britain's leading contemporary poets, and US Poet Laureate Billy Collins. > > Named after the gifted young Dublin poet who died in 1994, the competition > offers a first prize of 6,500 euros, and second and third prizes of 2,500 > euros and 1,250 euros respectively, making it one of the largest such > awards in Ireland and the UK. > > The competition is open to both published and unpublished poets over the > age of 18. and entrants may submit as many poems as they wish. The closing > date is 31st May 2002, with the winners being announced in early August. > First prize in 2001 went to Vona Groake(Ire), with Jeri McCormak (US) > taking second and Ayala Kingsley (UK) winning third place. > > Entry forms, rules and guide lines are available for printing on our > sponsor's site at www.eason.ie or by sending a stamped addressed envelope > to Poetry Competition, The Muse Cafe, Eason Bookshop, O'Connell Street, > Dublin 1, Ireland. > > Mr John Cudlipp, Director of Eason Bookshops, says that Eason are > delighted to sponsor The Davoren Hanna Poetry Competition in its second > year of existence. "As a seller of books we see it very much as part of > our remit to support and encourage new writers in a climate where rewards > for poets are few and far between." > From CobbCoStudioArts Sat Apr 13 01:24:53 2002 From: CobbCoStudioArts (Robert R.Cobb) Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Lyric Voice Message-ID: <20020413052453.92C0B2756@sitemail.everyone.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From FanwoodJEL Sat Apr 13 11:58:03 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:58:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Tupelo Press Bash & Readings Message-ID: <12c.fc9e33e.29e9af8b@aol.com> All, Tonight, 7:30 pm at the Northshire Bookstore in Manchester, VT, a bash for Tupelo Press including readings by Francine Sterle, Margaret Szumowski, Jennifer Michael Hecht, Matthew Zapruder, et moi. If you're in the area, please do come, and also to the dinner following. Jeffrey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hruggier Sat Apr 13 12:21:04 2002 From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:21:04 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Text/Australian Assoc. of Writing Programs References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DC7@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CB85AF0.116BD924@localnet.com> Hey, David Graham, thanks for this site - some good stuff there. Helen "Graham, David" wrote: > Teachers of creative writing might be interested to look at the online > journal TEXT, put out by the Australian Association of Writing Programs. It > looks to be a fairly scholarly collection of online articles on creative > writing pedagogy and associated academic issues. > > http://www.gu.edu.au/school/art/text/index.htm > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Cadaly Sat Apr 13 13:54:48 2002 From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:54:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <87.1a085778.29e9cae8@aol.com> Lynn Keller's FORMS OF EXPANSION is not an anthology, but it begins to introduce a wide variety of women's long poems, of which there are many, and takes on Rosenthal a bit. She wrote the Columbia Encyclopedia article on the long poem. But any anthology of long poems would be of excerpts, so... I'm having a hard time imagining something useful. MAPS online has excerpts from Donna Allego's thesis, on women writing long poems in the early modernist period. Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net Diane Di Prima Rochelle Owen Sharon Doubiago Rachel Blau DuPlessis Susan Howe Bernadette Mayer Minnie Bruce Pratt Gail Wronsky Judy Grahn Rita Dove Marilyn Hacker Gwendolyn Brooks Beverly Dahlen Julia Budenz Jill Breckenridge Joan Retallack Carla Harryman Lyn Heijinian Clark Coolidge Ron Silliman Barrett Watten Bruce Andrews John Ashbery A.R. Ammons James Merrill Ronald Johnson Ted Enslin Ed Dorn Nathaniel Tarn Robert Duncan Laura Riding HD Langston Hughes Lola Ridge Mary Carolyn Davies p'haps Mary Aldis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Apr 13 14:10:17 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:10:17 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies Message-ID: <200204131809.g3DI9iV95160@mx13.mx.voyager.net> It's a very good point that any anthology of long poems less than a jillion pages long will either be highly limited in number of poems, or else will comprise a gathering of excerpts. And teaching excerpts would be an odd way to study the long poem, seems to me. If I were teaching the long(er) poem, I'd thus be tempted to focus on a few individual volumes by a limited # of poets. So: anyone up for sharing further names of favorite contemporary long poems? Tops on my list would probably be Hayden Carruth's *The Sleeping Beauty* and Fred Chappell's *Midquest*--both available as single volumes, last time I checked. And a somewhat neglected classic, I think, is Gwendolyn Brooks' *In the Mecca*. There are so many others. I believe Carruth has a volume called something like "Collected Longer Poems," by the way. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Cadaly at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Date: Sat, Apr 13, 2002, 12:54 PM Lynn Keller's FORMS OF EXPANSION is not an anthology, but it begins to introduce a wide variety of women's long poems, of which there are many, and takes on Rosenthal a bit. She wrote the Columbia Encyclopedia article on the long poem. But any anthology of long poems would be of excerpts, so... I'm having a hard time imagining something useful. MAPS online has excerpts from Donna Allego's thesis, on women writing long poems in the early modernist period. Rgds, Catherine Daly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Thom424 Sat Apr 13 14:14:06 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:14:06 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies Message-ID: <8e.2640da7e.29e9cf6e@aol.com> LETTER TO AN IMAGINARY FRIEND by Tom McGrath and PATTERSON by WC Williams are two my MFA student and I are working on in our tutorial on the long poem. From JforJames Sat Apr 13 14:17:45 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:17:45 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poetry Features on AuthorsOnTheWeb.com Message-ID: <13c.cac1e66.29e9d049@aol.com> Subj: Poetry Features on AuthorsOnTheWeb.com Date: 4/12/2002 4:37:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: wiley at bookreporter.com Hello, To celebrate National Poetry Month AuthorsOnTheWeb.com is running two poet roundtables. Mary Jo Bang, Billy Collins, Cornelius Eady, Jeffrey Greene, Richard Matthews, Honor Moore, Marge Piercy, and Marc Woodworth voice their opinions on how to persuade reluctant readers to enjoy poetry and how schools might help students learn to love it. The poets also explain why poetry is their chosen method of expression and reveal which poem defines them as individuals. Betsy Franco, Robin Hirsch, Mary Ann Hoberman, Paul B. Janeczko, Alan Katz, X. J. Kennedy, Marilyn Singer, and Sonya Sones, poets for younger readers, present their views on these issues in a second roundtable discussion. The features can be found at: http://www.authorsontheweb.com/features/0204-poet/main-poet.asp I wanted to send the link in case you would like to read the roundtables and possibly link these features to your website. Please let me know if you have any questions. Happy reading, Wiley Saichek Promotion Manager for AuthorsOnTheWeb.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Apr 13 14:38:48 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:38:48 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies Message-ID: <200204131835.g3DIZK128721@mx5.mx.voyager.net> I'm particularly fond, myself, of less-than-booklength but more-than-easily-anthologized poems or suites. Some top-of-my-head favorites: Seamus Heaney. Station Island. Denise Levertov. The Olga Poems. Kenneth Koch. The Art of Poetry. Robert Hass. Songs to Survive the Summer Hayden Carruth. Paragraphs. Alicia Ostriker. The Mastectomy Poems. Sydney Lea. The Feud. Adrienne Rich. An Atlas of the Difficult World. Dan Bellm. Aspens. Philip Levine. A Walk With Tom Jefferson. Anne Winters. The Ruins. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- >From: Thom424 at aol.com >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies >Date: Sat, Apr 13, 2002, 1:14 PM > >LETTER TO AN IMAGINARY FRIEND by Tom McGrath and PATTERSON by WC Williams are >two my MFA student and I are working on in our tutorial on the long poem. From cstroffo Sat Apr 13 15:09:32 2002 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:09:32 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies References: <87.1a085778.29e9cae8@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CB8826B.D3AA2D8F@earthlink.net> weird that Alice Notley is excluded.... Cadaly at aol.com wrote: > Lynn Keller's FORMS OF EXPANSION is not an anthology, but it begins to > introduce a wide variety of women's long poems, of which there are > many, and takes on Rosenthal a bit. She wrote the Columbia > Encyclopedia article on the long poem. But any anthology of long > poems would be of excerpts, so... I'm having a hard time imagining > something useful. > > MAPS online has excerpts from Donna Allego's thesis, on women writing > long poems in the early modernist period. > > Rgds, > Catherine Daly > cadaly at pacbell.net > > Diane Di Prima > Rochelle Owen > Sharon Doubiago > Rachel Blau DuPlessis > Susan Howe > Bernadette Mayer > Minnie Bruce Pratt > Gail Wronsky > Judy Grahn > Rita Dove > Marilyn Hacker > Gwendolyn Brooks > Beverly Dahlen > Julia Budenz > Jill Breckenridge > Joan Retallack > Carla Harryman > Lyn Heijinian > > Clark Coolidge > Ron Silliman > Barrett Watten > Bruce Andrews > > John Ashbery > A.R. Ammons > James Merrill > > Ronald Johnson > Ted Enslin > Ed Dorn > Nathaniel Tarn > > Robert Duncan > Laura Riding > HD > Langston Hughes > Lola Ridge > Mary Carolyn Davies > p'haps Mary Aldis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Apr 13 18:00:43 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:00:43 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Marie Ponsot Message-ID: <6.2748ada7.29ea048b@aol.com> A poem from 1948 and a poem from 1998 both from SPRINGING: New and Selected Poems by Marie Ponsot +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ St.-Germain-des-Pres: Summer 1948 Crooked like all our ideas of ancient ascension The abbey tower topples a little toward us in the haze, Looking lightning-struck atop the quiet afternoon Or perhaps visited by something toppling in other days. Not now. Now grey, heavy, like a bank, the church A house, is decorative and calm across the square, Convenient for native weddings, funerals. From this cafe It's handsome; it fits; smiling tourists recognize it there. Now the ex-sergeant I've been drinking with has something? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to say: ? ? ("Don't go in there, kid, I been, it's ? ? dangerous, no light what I call light but ? ? inside it's gold all over and the gold is going. ? ? I mean gold air goes blowing, there's an old ? ? sky blue altar up there too, don't let that gold ? ? air blow on you.) Pourriture Noble (1998) a moral tale, for Sauternes, the fungus cenaria, and the wild old Never prophesy. You can't. So don't try. Lust, pride, and lethargy may cause us misery or bliss. The meanest mistake has a point to make. Hear this-- what his vintner d'Eyquem said once the lord of d'Eyquem was dead: ??????"The wine that year promised bad or none. ????????He'd let it go too late. ????????Rot had crawled through all the vines, ????????greasy scum on every cluster ????????dangling at the crotches of the leaves. ????????Should have been long picked ????????but he'd said, 'No. Wait for me,' ????????off to wait on a new woman, ????????grapes on the verge of ripe ????????when he left. Coupling kept him ????????till rot wrapped the grapes like lace ????????& by the time she'd kicked him out ????????the sun had got them, they hung ????????shriveled in the blast. ????????Well, he rode home cocky ????????& bullied the grapes into the vats ????????rot & all, spoiled grapes, too old, ????????too soon squeezed dry. ??????????????????????????????????????The wine makes. ????????The wine makes thick, gold-colored, ????????& pours like honey. ????????We try it. Fantastic! ????????not like honey, punchy, ????????you've never drunk anything like it-- ????????refreshing, in a rush ????????over a heat that slows your throat-- ????????wanting to keep that flavor ????????stuck to the edge of your tongue ????????where your taste is, keep it ????????like the best bouquet you can remember ????????of sundown summer & someone coming ????????to you smiling. The taste has odor ????????like a new country, so fine ????????at first you can't take it in ????????it's so strange. It's beautiful ????????& believe me you love to go slow." moral: Age is not all dry rot. It's never too late. Sweet is your real estate. from SPRINGING Copyright (c) 2002 by Marie Ponsot +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More Marie Ponsot: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/ponsot/poem.html Print out an illustrated broadside of Marie Ponsot's poem "Half Full" http://www.aaknopf.com/poetry/halffull.pdf Marie Ponsot will be reading from her work with Knopf poets Anne Carson, Sapphire, and Cynthia Zarin in the coming weeks: Thursday, April 11, 6:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Museum of NY City, Gotham Readers Series, NY with Sapphire. Co-sponsored by PSA and AAP. Tuesday, April 23, 7:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Fordham University,? 60th street at Lincoln Center, 12th floor Wednesday, April 24, 7:00 p.m. WASHINGTON, DC ? Chapters, 1512 K Street, NW ? reading and booksigning with Cynthia Zarin. Tuesday, April 30, 7:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Queens College reading with Anne Carson. Wednesday, May 1 SEATTLE -- CounterBalance Poetry Series Monday, May 13, 7:00 p.m.? NEW YORK -- Corner Bookstore -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Cadaly Sat Apr 13 18:14:03 2002 From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:14:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <18c.6680685.29ea07ab@aol.com> I don't think Notley'd written _Descent of Alette_ yet, but neither she nor Mayer are "covered." Many of the other women I'm finding who specialize in writing long poems and verse drama and free verse / travelogue are REALLY forgotten -- revenge of the anthologists I guess. Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From halvard Sat Apr 13 23:16:14 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:16:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies In-Reply-To: <200204131809.g3DI9iV95160@mx13.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: long poems/anthologiesSeems to me that Seldan Rodman did an anthology of long poems in the old Mentor Books days. Probably long gone, unless you're lucky enough to stumble upon it. I don't even seem to see it around here anymore. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard -----Original Message----- From: new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu [mailto:new-poetry-admin at wiz.cath.vt.edu]On Behalf Of David Graham Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 2:10 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies It's a very good point that any anthology of long poems less than a jillion pages long will either be highly limited in number of poems, or else will comprise a gathering of excerpts. And teaching excerpts would be an odd way to study the long poem, seems to me. If I were teaching the long(er) poem, I'd thus be tempted to focus on a few individual volumes by a limited # of poets. So: anyone up for sharing further names of favorite contemporary long poems? Tops on my list would probably be Hayden Carruth's *The Sleeping Beauty* and Fred Chappell's *Midquest*--both available as single volumes, last time I checked. And a somewhat neglected classic, I think, is Gwendolyn Brooks' *In the Mecca*. There are so many others. I believe Carruth has a volume called something like "Collected Longer Poems," by the way. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Cadaly at aol.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] question regarding anthologies Date: Sat, Apr 13, 2002, 12:54 PM Lynn Keller's FORMS OF EXPANSION is not an anthology, but it begins to introduce a wide variety of women's long poems, of which there are many, and takes on Rosenthal a bit. She wrote the Columbia Encyclopedia article on the long poem. But any anthology of long poems would be of excerpts, so... I'm having a hard time imagining something useful. MAPS online has excerpts from Donna Allego's thesis, on women writing long poems in the early modernist period. Rgds, Catherine Daly -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jholmes Sun Apr 14 14:25:19 2002 From: jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:25:19 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: question regarding anthologies Message-ID: >> Many of the other women I'm finding who specialize in writing long poems and verse drama and free verse / travelogue are REALLY forgotten -- revenge of the anthologists I guess. << True enough. I thought C.D. Wright's DEEPSTEP COME SHINING, for example, was a terrific book--but when it was excerpted in Aizenberg & Belieu's Columbia anthology, the effect was dampening. Many anthologists seem to fix on a poet's earliest work (how often does "Mock Orange" stand for Louise Gluck?), perhaps because it was less ambitious in length and scope and thus more convenient to include. (Doesn't ARARAT or WILD IRIS better represent what she's really masterful with?) Maybe someone will start a book series of great long poems, and reprint the best of these--something like the Library of America, but devoted to poetry. I can't see how, otherwise, the genre (rather than the individual authors) could be highlighted. Janet From Cadaly Sun Apr 14 15:51:53 2002 From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:51:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: question regarding anthologies Message-ID: <29.25962b0a.29eb37d9@aol.com> There are some chapbook series like Guy Bennett's and BeautifulSwimmer (Pattie McCarthy, herself author of a sequence, bk of (h)rs) and a+bend that publish or published chapbook length projects or chapbook length excerpts, and you can subscribe to them like you would to a journal. There are some quarterlies that publish an annual long poem / chapbook issue. With poetry books being more and more thematically and stylistically unified, so are chapbooks -- the distinction between a 12 page long poem in sections, say, and this type of chapbook blurs. Ex., Cole Swenson's published three book length projects recently (one on Apogee, which has published a few book length poetry projects, incl. Pattie McCarthy's), all of which were partially published in chapbook form earlier (BeautifulSwimmer). Electronic or serial publication is really the only route open for publishing most long poems, and there are quite a lot of them online, notably at Boston Review, Duration Press, webdelsol (the first section of Martine Bellen's new book), theeastvillage (Susan Schultz, etc.), Alterran Poetry Assemblage (Patti McCarthy), Veer, Mudlark, 2River View, various Peter Ganick places... The logical people to do anthologies of long poems and perhaps of anthologies of work that is not online are the subscription databases, Chadwyck-Healey, Thomson (Gale Group, etc.), Pro-Quest, and they should hire me. The major poetry sites (Academy of American Poets, epc, etc.) are already anthologies, and they should be reviewed as such. Some site editors consider themselves to be compiling anthologies. In fact, I think I just came up with my afternoon "the Kings are playing" projects. Be well, Catherine Daly cadaly at pacbell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DICK Sun Apr 14 15:58:53 2002 From: DICK (DICK at watson.ibm.com) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 02 15:58:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/sequences Message-ID: <200204142008.g3EK8tM29906@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> The Rime of the Ancient Mariner Vachel Lindsay's what's-its-name on the Civil War, we saw in high school once upon a time David Mason, The Country I Remember in the collection of the same name Marilyn Nelson has a terrific chain of sonnets in, I think, The Fields of Praise Richard From thebobcooperfor Mon Apr 15 06:45:09 2002 From: thebobcooperfor (bob cooper) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:45:09 +0000 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies Message-ID: There's a UK based website called The Long Poem Group (which can be found at www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lpgn/lpgn1.html (or, if that doesn't work, just type Long Poem Group into Google...) which discusses the way of Long Poems today, and includes lists of what's around. If yr interested it's probably worth a browse... Bob >From: "David Graham" >Reply-To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >To: "new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu" >Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies >Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 13:38:48 -0500 > >I'm particularly fond, myself, of less-than-booklength but >more-than-easily-anthologized poems or suites. Some top-of-my-head >favorites: > >Seamus Heaney. Station Island. >Denise Levertov. The Olga Poems. >Kenneth Koch. The Art of Poetry. >Robert Hass. Songs to Survive the Summer >Hayden Carruth. Paragraphs. >Alicia Ostriker. The Mastectomy Poems. >Sydney Lea. The Feud. >Adrienne Rich. An Atlas of the Difficult World. >Dan Bellm. Aspens. >Philip Levine. A Walk With Tom Jefferson. >Anne Winters. The Ruins. > >======================================== >David Graham >grahamd at mail.ripon.edu >Home Page: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html >Poetry Library: >http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html >======================================== >---------- > >From: Thom424 at aol.com > >To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > >Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] long poems/anthologies > >Date: Sat, Apr 13, 2002, 1:14 PM > > > > >LETTER TO AN IMAGINARY FRIEND by Tom McGrath and PATTERSON by WC Williams >are > >two my MFA student and I are working on in our tutorial on the long poem. >_______________________________________________ >New-Poetry mailing list >New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu >http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From JforJames Mon Apr 15 10:13:41 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:13:41 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Exaltation of Forms Message-ID: The University of Michigan Press is proud to announce the publication of An Exaltation of Forms: Contemporary Poets Celebrate the Diversity of Their Art edited by Annie Finch & Kathrine Varnes. At once handbook, reader, and guide to the literary tastes and wisdom of poets, An Exaltation of Forms is an indispensable resource certain to find a dedicated audience among poetry lovers. The editors invited fifty contemporary poets to select a single poetic meter, stanza, or form; describe it; recount its history; and provide favorite examples. The essays represent a remarkably diverse range of literary styles and approaches, and show how the forms of contemporary English-language poetry derive from a wealth of different traditions. The range of forms is wide-from blues to sestinas, rap to Native American chant. The range of poets included is equally impressive-from Amiri Baraka to John Frederick Nims, from Maxine Kumin to Marilyn Hacker, from Agha Shahid Ali to Pat Mora, from W. D. Snodgrass to Charles Bernstein. Achieving this level of eclecticism is a remarkable feat, especially given the strong opinions held by members of the various camps (e.g., the New Formalists, LANGUAGE poets, feminist and multicultural poets) that exist within today's poetry community. Poets who might never occupy the same room appear here between the same covers, ensuring the uniqueness of this volume and enhancing its usefulness. The net effect is a book that will surprise, inform, and delight a wide range of readers, whether as reference book, pleasure reading, or classroom text. Annie Finch is Associate Professor of English, Miami University. She is the author of The Ghost of Meter: Culture and Prosody in American Verse. Kathrine Varnes is Assistant Professor of English at the University of Missouri. Her poems and essays have appeared in many books and journals. An Exaltation of Forms edited by Annie Finch & Kathrine Varnes 6-1/8 x 9-1/4, 456 pages, 17 illustrations cloth, ISBN 0-472-09725-3, $49.50 US / ?35.50 UK & Europe* paper, ISBN 0-472-06725-7, $24.95 US / ?18.00 UK & Europe* (*Available in the UK and Europe through Plymbridge.) Publication date: April 2002 I believe this book would be of interest to the members of the New-Poetry listserv. Would you be willing to send an announcement to the listserv? If you would like additional information, please feel free to contact me. Thank you for your consideration. Regards, Jessica Sysak From paul.lake Mon Apr 15 11:54:06 2002 From: paul.lake (Paul Lake) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:54:06 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] long poems/sequences In-Reply-To: <200204142008.g3EK8tM29906@sp1n293en1.watson.ibm.com> Message-ID: on 4/14/02 2:58 PM, DICK at watson.ibm.com at DICK at watson.ibm.com wrote: > The Rime of the Ancient Mariner > Vachel Lindsay's what's-its-name on the Civil War, we saw in > high school once upon a time > David Mason, The Country I Remember in the collection of the same name > Marilyn Nelson has a terrific chain of sonnets in, I think, The Fields > of Praise > > Richard > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Speaking of Marilyn Nelson, I just saw that she has a new book out called Carver: A Life In Poems. Sounds like a long poem. Has anyone on the list read it yet or want to share a reaction? Paul Lake From Jholmes Mon Apr 15 12:24:46 2002 From: Jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:24:46 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Nelson on Carver Message-ID: I reviewed it last year for ForeWord--loved it. It's as much an historical research project as it is narrative poem, in that she makes use of heretofore unpublished materials. Two thumbs up. Janet From Cadaly Mon Apr 15 12:52:37 2002 From: Cadaly (Cadaly at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:52:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] that website that asked for a free verse poem Message-ID: <1a2.bcc84a.29ec5f55@aol.com> I was unable to provide is up http://www.pieriansprings.net/issue4a/current.html Catherine Daly cadaly at pacell.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GrahamD Mon Apr 15 17:12:57 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:12:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Ron Padgett Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DD8@mail.ripon.edu> > FAIRY TALE > > > The little elf is dressed in a floppy cap > and he has a big rosy nose and flaring white eyebrows > with short legs and a jaunty step, though sometimes > he glides across an invisible pond with a bonfire glow on his cheeks: > it is northern Europe in the nineteenth century and people > are strolling around Copenhagen in the late afternoon, > mostly townspeople on their way somewhere, > perhaps to an early collation of smoked fish, rye bread, and cheese, > washed down with a dark beer: ha ha, I have eaten this excellent meal > and now I will smoke a little bit and sit back and stare down > at the golden gleam of my watch fob against the coarse dark wool of my > vest, > and I will smile with a hideous contentment, because I am an evil man, > and tonight I will do something evil in this city! > > > --Ron Padgett > > > --------------------------------- > copyright (c) 2002. From You Never Know, published by Coffee House > Press(http://www.coffeehousepress.org). > --------------------------------- > > E-verse is a free service presented by Milkweed Editions > (http://www.milkweed.org). For more information or to unsubscribe, please > e-mail us at e-verse at milkweed.org. > > Sign up a friend for e-verse at http://www.milkweed.org/3_1.html > > Enjoy your week! > > ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From shep Mon Apr 15 17:55:21 2002 From: shep (shep) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:55:21 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Ron Padgett In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DD8@mail.ripon.edu> References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DD8@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: > > FAIRY TALE >> >> >> The little elf is dressed in a floppy cap >> and he has a big rosy nose and flaring white eyebrows >> with short legs and a jaunty step, though sometimes >> he glides across an invisible pond with a bonfire glow on his cheeks: >> it is northern Europe in the nineteenth century and people >> are strolling around Copenhagen in the late afternoon, >> mostly townspeople on their way somewhere, >> perhaps to an early collation of smoked fish, rye bread, and cheese, >> washed down with a dark beer: ha ha, I have eaten this excellent meal >> and now I will smoke a little bit and sit back and stare down >> at the golden gleam of my watch fob against the coarse dark wool of my >> vest, >> and I will smile with a hideous contentment, because I am an evil man, >> and tonight I will do something evil in this city! >> >> >> --Ron Padgett > > > In the spirit of re-writing someone else's poem I offer this: Leave out everything after contentment It's still a trick ending but it leaves something to the imagination. -- From marcus Mon Apr 15 21:54:27 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:54:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Ron Padgett In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DD8@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CBB4C13.11793.F51CE@localhost> > > Ron Padgett > > The little elf is dressed in a floppy cap > > and he has a big rosy nose and flaring white eyebrows > > with short legs and a jaunty step, though sometimes > > he glides across an invisible pond with a bonfire glow on his cheeks: > > it is northern Europe in the nineteenth century and people > > are strolling around Copenhagen in the late afternoon, > > mostly townspeople on their way somewhere, > > perhaps to an early collation of smoked fish, rye bread, and cheese, > > washed down with a dark beer: ha ha, I have eaten this excellent meal > > and now I will smoke a little bit and sit back and stare down > > at the golden gleam of my watch fob against the coarse dark wool of my > > vest, > > and I will smile with a hideous contentment, because I am an evil man, > > and tonight I will do something evil in this city!<< How To Treat Elves Morris Bishop I met an elf man in the woods,  The wee-est little elf!  Sitting under a mushroom tall--  'Twas taller than himself!   "How do you do, little elf," I said,  "And what do you do all day?"  "I dance 'n fwolic about," said he,  "'N scuttle about and play;"   "I s'prise the butterflies,  'n when A katydid I see,  'Katy didn't' I say, and he  Says 'Katy did!' to me!   "I hide behind my mushroom stalk  When Mister Mole comes froo,  'N only jus' to fwighten him  I jump out'n say 'Boo!'  "'N then I swing on a cobweb swing  Up in the air so high,  'N the cwickets chirp to hear me sing  'Upsy-daisy-die!'  "'N then I play with the baby chicks,  I call them, chick chick chick!  'N what do you think of that?" said he.  I said, "It makes me sick.  "It gives me sharp and shooting pains  To listen to such drool."  I lifted up my foot, and squashed  The God damn little fool.   Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From acgold01 Mon Apr 15 22:42:22 2002 From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding) Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:42:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others Message-ID: To bring a little levity to Tax Day, I thought I'd circulate, with her permission, this imitation by one of my students at the U of Louisville, Julia Noran. PARODY Frank O'Hara has been knocked off! I was staring at my wall and suddenly I started doodling and drawing and you said I was writing but writing weaves words together wonderfully so I was really doodling and drawing and I was in such a hurry to get through but my assignment was acting exactly like my lines and suddenly I get an idea FRANK O'HARA HAS BEEN KNOCKED OFF! There are no doodles in composition books There are no drawings in poetry I have written lots of poems and many were perfectly disgraceful but I was never actually knocked off oh Frank O'Hara I love you forgive me Alan Golding From tadrichards Tue Apr 16 07:50:17 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:50:17 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others References: Message-ID: <006001c1e53c$e126cf20$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Good job, Julia. Funny stuff. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan C Golding" To: Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:42 PM Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others > To bring a little levity to Tax Day, I thought I'd circulate, with her > permission, this imitation by one of my students at the U of Louisville, > Julia Noran. > > PARODY > > Frank O'Hara has been knocked off! > I was staring at my wall and suddenly > I started doodling and drawing > and you said I was writing > but writing weaves words together > wonderfully so I was really doodling and > drawing and I was in such a hurry > to get through but my assignment > was acting exactly like my lines > and suddenly I get an idea > FRANK O'HARA HAS BEEN KNOCKED OFF! > There are no doodles in composition books > There are no drawings in poetry > I have written lots of poems > and many were perfectly disgraceful > but I was never actually knocked off > oh Frank O'Hara I love you forgive me > > Alan Golding > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From GrahamD Tue Apr 16 11:54:58 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:54:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86DE2@mail.ripon.edu> Lovely O'Hara spoof. One good parody deserves another-- With Tenure If Ezra Pound were alive today (and he is) he'd be teaching at a small college in the Pacific northwest and attending the annual convention of writing instructors in St. Louis and railing against tenure, saying tenure is a ladder whose rungs slip out from under the scholar as he climbs upwards to empty heaven by the angels abandoned for tenure killeth the spirit (with tenure no man becomes master) Texts are unwritten with tenure, under the microscope, sous rature it turneth the scholar into a drone decayeth the pipe in his jacket's breast pocket. Hamlet was not written with tenure, nor were written Schubert's lieder nor Manet's Olympia painted with tenure. No man of genius rises by tenure Nor woman (I see you smile). Picasso came not by tenure nor Charlie Parker; Came not by tenure Wallace Stevens Not by tenure Marcel Proust Nor Turner by tenure With tenure hath only the mediocre a sinecure unto death. Unto death, I say! WITH TENURE Nature is constipated the sap doesn't flow With tenure the classroom is empty et in academia ego the ketchup is stuck inside the bottle the letter goes unanswered the bell doesn't ring. --David Lehman. *Operation Memory*. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Alan C Golding > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 9:42 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others on poems by others > > To bring a little levity to Tax Day, I thought I'd circulate, with her > permission, this imitation by one of my students at the U of Louisville, > Julia Noran. > > PARODY > > Frank O'Hara has been knocked off! > I was staring at my wall and suddenly > I started doodling and drawing > and you said I was writing > but writing weaves words together > wonderfully so I was really doodling and > drawing and I was in such a hurry > to get through but my assignment > was acting exactly like my lines > and suddenly I get an idea > FRANK O'HARA HAS BEEN KNOCKED OFF! > There are no doodles in composition books > There are no drawings in poetry > I have written lots of poems > and many were perfectly disgraceful > but I was never actually knocked off > oh Frank O'Hara I love you forgive me > > Alan Golding > _______________________________________________ > From daisyf1 Wed Apr 17 09:27:26 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:27:26 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading, NYC Message-ID: <20020417.092727.-307757.2.daisyf1@juno.com> David Lehman and Daisy Fried Wednesday, Apr 24 8:00 PM $10/$12 Location: The JCC in Manhattan, 334 Amsterdam Ave. at 76th St. (Program room assignments will be available at the JCC Customer Service Desk, in the lobby of the Samuel Priest Rose Building.) Co-sponsored by the Poetry Society of America David Lehman is the author of five books of poems, including The Evening Sun and The Daily Mirror, and of The Last Avant-Garde, a book about the New York School. He is the series editor for the Best American Poetry. Daisy Fried is the author of the Starrett-Prize winning book of poems She Didn't Mean to Do It, has been a Pew Fellow in poetry and received the 2001 Leeway Award for Excellence in Poetry. From halvard Wed Apr 17 11:07:01 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:07:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Wash, Rinse, Repeat--Some poems revisited Message-ID: For a hardy little band of poems republished online by The Blue Moon Review, just click on this-- http://www.thebluemoon.com/index.shtml Poems by Gene Frumkin, Dick Allen, Elaine Equi, Tom Raworth, Bobby Byrd, Michael Heller, Mark Pawlak, James V. Cervantes, Charles O. Hartman, and Wendy Battin. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From cvoisine Wed Apr 17 12:59:26 2002 From: cvoisine (NMSU) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:59:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #757 - 5 msgs In-Reply-To: <200204131601.g3DG12Q28857@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: Thanks to all who responded to my query about critical essays on the nature of the lyric. I have ordered or borrowed from my library each one of those and look forward to digesting them. Connie Voisine From JforJames Wed Apr 17 15:26:17 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:26:17 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Marie Ponsot Message-ID: <111.10d854ac.29ef2659@aol.com> I was informed that this message came out all garbled the first time round...so I'm trying it again... A poem from 1948 and a poem from 1998 both from SPRINGING: New and Selected Poems by Marie Ponsot +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ St.-Germain-des-Pres: Summer 1948 Crooked like all our ideas of ancient ascension The abbey tower topples a little toward us in the haze, Looking lightning-struck atop the quiet afternoon Or perhaps visited by something toppling in other days. Not now. Now grey, heavy, like a bank, the church A house, is decorative and calm across the square, Convenient for native weddings, funerals. From this cafe It's handsome; it fits; smiling tourists recognize it there. Now the ex-sergeant I've been drinking with has something? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to say: ? ? ("Don't go in there, kid, I been, it's ? ? dangerous, no light what I call light but ? ? inside it's gold all over and the gold is going. ? ? I mean gold air goes blowing, there's an old ? ? sky blue altar up there too, don't let that gold ? ? air blow on you.) Pourriture Noble (1998) a moral tale, for Sauternes, the fungus cenaria, and the wild old Never prophesy. You can't. So don't try. Lust, pride, and lethargy may cause us misery or bliss. The meanest mistake has a point to make. Hear this-- what his vintner d'Eyquem said once the lord of d'Eyquem was dead: ??????"The wine that year promised bad or none. ????????He'd let it go too late. ????????Rot had crawled through all the vines, ????????greasy scum on every cluster ????????dangling at the crotches of the leaves. ????????Should have been long picked ????????but he'd said, 'No. Wait for me,' ????????off to wait on a new woman, ????????grapes on the verge of ripe ????????when he left. Coupling kept him ????????till rot wrapped the grapes like lace ????????& by the time she'd kicked him out ????????the sun had got them, they hung ????????shriveled in the blast. ????????Well, he rode home cocky ????????& bullied the grapes into the vats ????????rot & all, spoiled grapes, too old, ????????too soon squeezed dry. ??????????????????????????????????????The wine makes. ????????The wine makes thick, gold-colored, ????????& pours like honey. ????????We try it. Fantastic! ????????not like honey, punchy, ????????you've never drunk anything like it-- ????????refreshing, in a rush ????????over a heat that slows your throat-- ????????wanting to keep that flavor ????????stuck to the edge of your tongue ????????where your taste is, keep it ????????like the best bouquet you can remember ????????of sundown summer & someone coming ????????to you smiling. The taste has odor ????????like a new country, so fine ????????at first you can't take it in ????????it's so strange. It's beautiful ????????& believe me you love to go slow." moral: Age is not all dry rot. It's never too late. Sweet is your real estate. from SPRINGING Copyright (c) 2002 by Marie Ponsot +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More Marie Ponsot: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/ponsot/poem.html Print out an illustrated broadside of Marie Ponsot's poem "Half Full" http://www.aaknopf.com/poetry/halffull.pdf Marie Ponsot will be reading from her work with Knopf poets Anne Carson, Sapphire, and Cynthia Zarin in the coming weeks: Thursday, April 11, 6:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Museum of NY City, Gotham Readers Series, NY with Sapphire. Co-sponsored by PSA and AAP. Tuesday, April 23, 7:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Fordham University,? 60th street at Lincoln Center, 12th floor Wednesday, April 24, 7:00 p.m. WASHINGTON, DC Chapters, 1512 K Street, NW reading and booksigning with Cynthia Zarin. Tuesday, April 30, 7:00 p.m. NEW YORK -- Queens College reading with Anne Carson. Wednesday, May 1 SEATTLE -- CounterBalance Poetry Series Monday, May 13, 7:00 p.m.? NEW YORK -- Corner Bookstore From halvard Wed Apr 17 15:42:16 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:42:16 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: besmilr brigham, "A Day When the Bare Trees . . ." Message-ID: A Day When the Bare Trees Are Full of Fluttering birds have taken over our chicken runs flocking back against the change sparlings to sweep echoing wings down the unused chimney brick rafters they flow beneath weather paper a colony of usurpers screaming in the barn and mating pairs come back from Mexico--as we have come, deep woods feathers stained hard as jungle leaves raging the fields parrot sprays of color: we sit cold in the house watching their dull efforts hunting for little left quills to put in their nests --besmilr brigham, from her 1971 collection *heaved from the earth* (Knopf) Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From JforJames Wed Apr 17 16:35:28 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:35:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] HaikuHut.com Message-ID: <19c.dd8c27.29ef3690@aol.com> Hello Haiku, and Short Poetry Lover! We at HaikuHut.com are pleased to announce that the inaugural issue of our Monthly on-line magazine for 'short form' poetry, including Haiku, Senryu, Tanka, and all forms of short poetry, SHORT STUFF, is now on-line and available for viewing. We are also accepting SUBMISSIONS for the next issue. Please click on the submission button at the site to view our criteria and submit your work! If you want to see more of a particular style why not send us some of your work! *************************************************************************** New HaikuHut.com E-Zine: SHORT STUFF now on on-line! *************************************************************************** Our new monthly on-line e-Zine: SHORT STUFF is now on-line for viewing. We have interviews, articles, and lots of poetry in many forms, but primarily focusing on Haiku, Senryu, Tanka, and some very creative short poetry, by many very talented writers. We have an interview with Ray Rasmussen, Photographer and poet, on 'photo haiku', as well as a group of 14 wonderful poets from all over the world, whose work covers the gamut from Haiku, Senryu, Cinquain, and many other 'bullets' of poetry. We think we have assembled a first rate group of poets for your reading. Deborah Russell and Michael Rehling - co-Editors CLICK THE LINK BELOW TO VISIT! http://www.haikuhut.com/ShortStuff/ShortStuff.html *************************************************************************** We have also expanded the Photo Haiku section of the site, added some new poets, and our Links section now includes glossary's of haiku and poetic terms, writing helps, lists of other e-Zines that have 'open submission policies, and much more! We want to provide you with the best sources for reading and publishing poetry on the web! Thanks for being part of this work. Sincerely, Michael Rehling www.haikuhut.com and www.poetrylives.com P.S. Click on the link to our on-line store for our Buddha-Line of T-Shirts, Mugs, Cap, etc... From Serbpoet Wed Apr 17 22:56:21 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 22:56:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Aesthetic considerations Message-ID: <96.25298786.29ef8fd5@aol.com> Love in all its many guises appears as if the painter had merely smeared the canvas. Yet no synopsis or symphony can convey the mind equally likening himself to a white bull (MINATOUR) where music is the food of desire (hence SHAKESPEARE). A delicate deliberate orchestration of carnal love music poetry (BYRON) and what happens during SEX infuses even the tenderness of the briefest encounters (HEFNER). Astonishing ... thrilling ... heart-stunning ... dazzling ... compelling ... passionate ... exhilirating.... A poetry that can yield to the reader like a geisha and only ask the reader to yield in return like a geisha. This, that is to say, that underlines this, that underlines all of the preceding like this, the exquisite cut-glass bottles with all of that, that this?the different scents of life in them, THAT. But as soon as one steps back and surveys the work, POETRY, from a distance one has the impression of a colorful irresistible painting portrait landscape stillife sonnet lyric pantoum. It subjects one to a kind of rollercoaster ride so that the reader emerges at the end of the poem gasping, blinking reshaped in a hundered different ways held together by the emotional/ideological struts of the 19th century. But if God is dead . . . then???????? Anna From JforJames Thu Apr 18 11:41:13 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:41:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Sugar Mule seeking erotica Message-ID: <90.2478fb2d.29f04319@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:57:59 +0100 From: M L Weber Subject: seeking erotica www.SugarMule.com is looking for literary erotica (poetry and prose) ------------------------------------ Online now - issue 10 - "on the road" Poetry Pierre Joris CANTO DIURNO #2 Karl Young from Milestones Prose Paul Beckman Three pieces Andrei Codrescu Road Kill Shawn Davis Shakedown Paul Alan Fahey A Solitary Sound Herbert Foster Kaufman My Last Run John J. Maguire The Former Traveller Rochelle Ratner Popping Seaweed Wayne Scheer Road Trip Lawrence Upton Hesperides Harriet Zinnes Without Any Pressing Need From Jholmes Thu Apr 18 14:32:18 2002 From: Jholmes (Janet Holmes) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:32:18 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Reading in St. Paul, MN Message-ID: Anyone here from St. Paul? I'll be doing a reading from my new book HUMANOPHONE at Ruminator Books (formerly The Hungry Mind) on Saturday, April 27, at 7 p.m. along with poet Greg Hewett. I hope to meet some of you there. Janet Holmes From FanwoodJEL Thu Apr 18 17:56:48 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:56:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Launch of the Tupelo Press Village Reading Series Message-ID: <111.10e79bf8.29f09b20@aol.com> Join Us This Sunday, April 21st (7:30 pm) for the maiden voyage of the TUPELO PRESS VILLAGE READING SERIES at Pangea This week: Matthew Zapruder, Sally Dawidoff, Ellen Rachlin, Jessica Grant Bundschuh, and Jeffrey Levine Dinner after. Leftover Tupelo Press cake with melted green icing. Hot and cold running spirits and muses. Pangea Bar & Restaurant ~ 178 Second Avenue, btwn 12th & 11th Streets ~ 212-995-0900 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Thu Apr 18 19:33:40 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:33:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 by Albert Murray Message-ID: <70.1b758202.29f0b1d4@aol.com> Albert Murray is the author of many fiction and nonfiction titles, along with the long poem TRAIN WHISTLE GUITAR -- the poems below are from his new collection of poems, CONJUGATIONS AND REITERATIONS. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Private Stock thelonius the syncopating monk whose preferred cloistersphere seemed to be the misty morning atmosphere of the after hours joint from which the last of the nightlong merrymakers have departed. in all events he almost always used to seem to be resampling his honky-tonk piano meditations and up-tempo stride time etudes as much for his own private edification as for the programmed entertainment of any paying audience indeed thelonius made music as some monks have always made and shared wine: here's something else to my taste try this how about this or this Pas de Deux (I) all art, said old water pater, speaking of sandro botticelli, constantly aspires toward the condition of music. so it is swing that is the supreme fiction, madam, for (given the concreteness of physical experience per se) our primary concern is the quality of our consciousness (how we feel about it all) and swing, which is movement and countermovement which is life itself, is that elegant resilience that poetry would reenact, its verbalization being aesthetic kinetics! after all, madam (or rather first of all), is not the primordial function of verbal enchantment the refinement of our physical responses? the objective of poetry is to be moving, madam, poetry is the supreme effort to make words swing. but according to vico, (giambattista, 1668-1744) before articulation became narration there was only exclamation (onomatopoeia) along with pantomime yes, as jamesjoyce came to know and kennethburke came to say, poetry is symbolic action and symbolic action, madam, is the dancing of an attitude, and dance, madam, don't mean a thing minus the insouciant element of swing there's your supreme fiction, madam, it ain't waht you do it's the way that you do it. l'envoie: it must never be more gynastic than elegant II. swinging is never uptight, my good fellow, no sweat, my man, cool, old pardner, up-tempo relaxation as it were, moreover, given the inevitability of entropy and the ineluctable modality of perception and thus conception swinging is not only the most elegant mathematical solution it is also the best revenge from CONJUGATIONS AND REITERATIONS Copyright (c) 2002 by Albert Murray From grahamd Fri Apr 19 11:24:35 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:24:35 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Bouquet of Rogers Message-ID: <200204191524.g3JFO4I92995@mx7.mx.voyager.net> I just stumbled across a little online anthology of Pattiann Rogers poems, as selected by Diane Ackerman, Naomi Shihab Nye, Richard Howard, and others--with brief commentaries. On the theory that there is seldom enough Pattiann Rogers in most of our days, I offer it to you. At the Milkweed press web site: http://www.milkweed.org/3_3_7.html ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From JforJames Fri Apr 19 12:32:27 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:32:27 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Lannan Audio downloads Message-ID: <1a5.ffb4a6.29f1a09b@aol.com> http://www.lannan.org/audio/ I recently ran across these free downloads, of readings & talks, produced by the Lannan Foundation. Finnegan From Arielpf123 Fri Apr 19 12:58:21 2002 From: Arielpf123 (Arielpf123 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:58:21 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Lannan Audio downloads Message-ID: <120.eeb231a.29f1a6ad@aol.com> In a message dated 4/19/02 12:33:55 PM, JforJames at aol.com writes: << I recently ran across these free downloads, of readings & talks, produced by the Lannan Foundation. >> a very major thanks for this!! patf From grahamd Fri Apr 19 15:59:26 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:59:26 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <200204191958.g3JJwqt22343@mx11.mx.voyager.net> Interested in Gerald Stern's thoughts on the sonnet? From Norton: http://www.nortonpoets.com -------------- Now in the Poet's Workshop -- the second of two essays this month: Gerald Stern: Thoughts on the Sonnet ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From Rsgwynn1 Fri Apr 19 17:49:57 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:49:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <1a5.ff84d0.29f1eb05@cs.com> In a message dated 4/19/2002 2:59:55 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at mail.ripon.edu writes: > > Interested in Gerald Stern's thoughts on the sonnet? From Norton: > > http://www.nortonpoets.com > > Mr. Stern should stick to road-kill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Fri Apr 19 18:44:12 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:44:12 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <200204192242.g3JMgxu36249@mx8.mx.voyager.net> Notwithstanding debates on sonnet formulae, I admit to a longstanding fondness for Mr. Stern, an often charming gas bag. Hope I'm still writing at his age. In his honor, I offer the following little song: BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: Rsgwynn1 at cs.com To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Stern Sonneteer Date: Fri, Apr 19, 2002, 4:49 PM In a message dated 4/19/2002 2:59:55 PM Central Daylight Time, grahamd at mail.ripon.edu writes: Interested in Gerald Stern's thoughts on the sonnet? From Norton: http://www.nortonpoets.com Mr. Stern should stick to road-kill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bobgrumman Fri Apr 19 19:22:45 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:22:45 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer References: <200204192242.g3JMgxu36249@mx8.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <008901c1e7f9$1ce61c00$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Re: Stern SonneteerHunh, I liked this one, David--does that mean I might like Gerald Stern? I know I've read poems of his, but none of them made me try to read more. --Bob G. BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. --David Graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Apr 20 12:28:11 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:28:11 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <200204201627.g3KGRfi28469@mx12.mx.voyager.net> Hard to say whether you'd like Gerald Stern, Bob. Let's proceed inductively. Below you'll find a tiny sample of Stern Old and Stern New. My parody of Mr. Stern, like most of the infrequent parodies I write, definitely proceeds from love/hate. Scorn alone seldom works for me. (Heaven knows I've tried. . . .) Stern's style hasn't changed that much down the years, seems to me. Of course, he didn't break into print with his first (hard to find) book until he was 48 years old. By the time his first major press volume, Lucky Life, hit print, he was 52. But in the past quarter century he's certainly made up for lost time. David Graham _________________________________ Behaving Like a Jew When I got there the dead opossum looked like an enormous baby sleeping on the road. It took me only a few seconds--just seeing him there--with the hole in his back and the wind blowing through his hair to get back again into my animal sorrow. I am sick of the country, the bloodstained bumpers, the stiff hairs sticking out of the grilles, the slimy highways, the heavy birds refusing to move; I am sick of the spirit of Lindbergh over everything, that joy in death, that philosophical understanding of carnage, that concentration on the species. --I am going to be unappeased at the opposum's death. I am going to behave like a Jew and touch his face, and stare into his eyes, and pull him off the road. I am not going to stand in a wet ditch with the Toyotas and the Chevies passing over me at sixty miles an hour and praise the beauty and the balance and lose myself in the immortal lifestream when my hands are still a little shaky from his stiffness and his bulk and my eyes are still weak and misty from his round belly and his curved fingers and his black whiskers and his little dancing feet. --Gerald Stern. Lucky Life. (1977) Winter Thirst I grew up with bituminous in my mouth and sulfur smelling like rotten eggs and I first started to cough because my lungs were like cardboard; and what we called snow was gray with black flecks that were like glue when it came to snowballs and made them hard and crusty, though we still ate the snow anyhow, and as for filth, well, start with smoke, I carried it with me I know everywhere and someone sitting beside me in New York or Paris would know where I came from, we would go in for dinner ? red meat loaf or brown choucroute ? and he would guess my hill, and we would talk about soot and what a dirty neck was like and how the white collar made a fine line; and I told him how we pulled heavy wagons and loaded boxcars every day from five to one a.m. and how good it was walking empty-handed to the no. 69 streetcar and how I dreamed of my bath and how the water was black and soapy then and what the void was like and how a candle instructed me. --Gerald Stern. American Sonnets (2002). ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== ---------- From: "Bob Grumman" To: Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Date: Fri, Apr 19, 2002, 6:22 PM Hunh, I liked this one, David--does that mean I might like Gerald Stern? I know I've read poems of his, but none of them made me try to read more. --Bob G. BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. --David Graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JforJames Sat Apr 20 13:15:32 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:15:32 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: In a message dated 4/19/02 7:24:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bobgrumman at nut-n-but.net writes: << BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. --David Graham >> Bravo David, all the best and all the "wurst" of this bald, bold, wild & wooly bouncing off-the-walls American poet, distilled almost to sonnet length. Finnegan From JforJames Sat Apr 20 13:46:11 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:46:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 4-21 NYT Book Review of Marie Ponsot (& she makes the cover) Message-ID: <130.d0edc20.29f30363@aol.com> (At least it wasn't Adam Kirsch again reviewing in the NYTimes Book Review.) The review was by one David Orr, described as a lawyer & writer from NYC. In the review he makes a half dozen references to TV and pop-culture, apropos to nothing in Ponsot's work...just another one of those poor ol' poetry cliches: an art form that when it's not deservingly disliked, is so often misunderstood or overlooked in our culture. (Would the constant bemoaners about the current state of poetry please vacate the premises. You know the one about hitting your head against a brickwall...it really does feel good when you stop.) Anyway, to his credit, Orr does quote amply from Ponsot's poetry. And her work, though confoundingly idiosyncratic at times, does deserve the high-profile attention. Finnegan From bobgrumman Sat Apr 20 13:46:40 2002 From: bobgrumman (Bob Grumman) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:46:40 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer References: <200204201627.g3KGRfi28469@mx12.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <002201c1e893$54e031a0$cf04fea9@y3b2r8> Re: Stern SonneteerThanks for the Stern samples, David. I now remember the roadkill poem. I don't find it a poem that's very fair to the ideas it's arguing against (though I'm a bit of a fanatic against the roadkill-aspect of our society's need to expand at any cost)--and I tend not to like Poems as Great Moral Expressions. His school of poetics ain't mine, neither. Your parody seems a much better poem to me than his. In fact, you poem doesn't seem anywhere near the parody to me that his first seems. Your poem is silly but aware of its silliness, and seems better composed than his, with a bouncier imagination. Maybe I just like its sentiments better for a poem than the ones in his, I dunno. Or poems with Wallace Stevens in them. . . . --Bob G. Hard to say whether you'd like Gerald Stern, Bob. Let's proceed inductively. Below you'll find a tiny sample of Stern Old and Stern New. My parody of Mr. Stern, like most of the infrequent parodies I write, definitely proceeds from love/hate. Scorn alone seldom works for me. (Heaven knows I've tried. . . .) Stern's style hasn't changed that much down the years, seems to me. Of course, he didn't break into print with his first (hard to find) book until he was 48 years old. By the time his first major press volume, Lucky Life, hit print, he was 52. But in the past quarter century he's certainly made up for lost time. David Graham _________________________________ Behaving Like a Jew When I got there the dead opossum looked like an enormous baby sleeping on the road. It took me only a few seconds--just seeing him there--with the hole in his back and the wind blowing through his hair to get back again into my animal sorrow. I am sick of the country, the bloodstained bumpers, the stiff hairs sticking out of the grilles, the slimy highways, the heavy birds refusing to move; I am sick of the spirit of Lindbergh over everything, that joy in death, that philosophical understanding of carnage, that concentration on the species. --I am going to be unappeased at the opposum's death. I am going to behave like a Jew and touch his face, and stare into his eyes, and pull him off the road. I am not going to stand in a wet ditch with the Toyotas and the Chevies passing over me at sixty miles an hour and praise the beauty and the balance and lose myself in the immortal lifestream when my hands are still a little shaky from his stiffness and his bulk and my eyes are still weak and misty from his round belly and his curved fingers and his black whiskers and his little dancing feet. --Gerald Stern. Lucky Life. (1977) Winter Thirst I grew up with bituminous in my mouth and sulfur smelling like rotten eggs and I first started to cough because my lungs were like cardboard; and what we called snow was gray with black flecks that were like glue when it came to snowballs and made them hard and crusty, though we still ate the snow anyhow, and as for filth, well, start with smoke, I carried it with me I know everywhere and someone sitting beside me in New York or Paris would know where I came from, we would go in for dinner < red meat loaf or brown choucroute < and he would guess my hill, and we would talk about soot and what a dirty neck was like and how the white collar made a fine line; and I told him how we pulled heavy wagons and loaded boxcars every day from five to one a.m. and how good it was walking empty-handed to the no. 69 streetcar and how I dreamed of my bath and how the water was black and soapy then and what the void was like and how a candle instructed me. --Gerald Stern. American Sonnets (2002). ====== Hunh, I liked this one, David--does that mean I might like Gerald Stern? I know I've read poems of his, but none of them made me try to read more. --Bob G. BEHAVING LIKE GERALD STERN I am lying here in the present tense, spread like a lilac branch across my wrinkled sheets, humming a little Hosea through the scratchy tones of the morning news, I am deciding to moan for two or three hours more, nothing excessive, just a sort of training moan, because on my wall the good gray face of Wallace Stevens glares at my other wall, where Louis Armstrong waves his hanky goodbye, hello, and at precisely this moment I am forgiving the cruel druggists of Pittsburgh, the taxis and sandwiches and libraries guarded by lions, and I intend to forgive in advance all the reviewers, the snuffling chancellors of every academy for allowing me, finally, into their sad and competent kingdom. --David Graham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamd Sat Apr 20 14:42:20 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:42:20 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer Message-ID: <200204201841.g3KIfn236508@mx12.mx.voyager.net> >Bravo David, >all the best and all the "wurst" of this bald, bold, >wild & wooly bouncing off-the-walls American poet, >distilled almost to sonnet length. >Finnegan Ah, but you know that a sonnet may be of ANY length. Mr. Stern told me so! When I think of Stern I sometimes think of Les Murray's poem "The Quality of Sprawl." Among current Americans, Stern's one of the most sprawling. His new book, *American Sonnets*, interests me because, in the few samples from it I've seen, it looks as though the limited length of the poems does tame Stern's more self-indulgent, sprawling side a bit, creating some productive tensions. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From odysseus34 Sat Apr 20 15:38:11 2002 From: odysseus34 (odysseus34 at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:38:11 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Stern Sonneteer References: <200204201627.g3KGRfi28469@mx12.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <3CC1C38C.44F39E0@earthlink.net> "just a sort of training moan" -- god, that's funny. I believe the X.J. Kennedy anthology we were force to study from in high school paired "Behaving Like a Jew" with "Travelling into the Dark." I do remember wondering what the hell "behaving like a Jew" meant to the poet. Moira Russell Seattle, WA From snospx Sat Apr 20 19:12:56 2002 From: snospx (Barry Spacks) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 16:12:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] another stern bravo In-Reply-To: <200204201933.g3KJX2Q02063@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020420161256.007f63c0@snowcrest.net> >Finnegan wrote: >Bravo David, >all the best and all the "wurst" of this bald, bold, >wild & wooly bouncing off-the-walls American poet, >distilled almost to sonnet length. **** Graham's Stern's so Stern, so burns with wit I bet Stern yearns to have Stern'd it. Barry From JforJames Sat Apr 20 22:12:50 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:12:50 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Yet Another Wei? Message-ID: <64.1ddd4c53.29f37a22@aol.com> Many of you may be familar with Eliot Weinbergers 19 Ways of Looking at Wang Wei...well, here's the 20th... Finnegan Poetry Daily http://www.poems.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Readers, Our thanks to MARILYN CHIN for today's special Poet's Pick: WANG WEI, "DEER ENCLOSURE" We are bringing you a special poem each weekday in April as part of our annual fund-raising campaign and in celebration of National Poetry Month and our 5th anniversary online. Please help us to continue in service to you and to poetry by making a tax-deductible contribution to Poetry Daily! Find out how you can make your contribution online at http://www.poems.com/support/support.htm or print out the online form and send it with your check or money order, payable to "Poetry Daily" in U.S. dollars, to: The Daily Poetry Association P.O. Box 1306 Charlottesville, VA 22902-1306 USA Contributors of $25-$35 will receive a choice of our Poetry Daily coffee mug or our PD mouse pad. Contributors of $35 or more will receive our new PD T-shirt (a stone-washed green, Hanes 100% cotton "Beefy T," with our logo front & back). All receive our heartfelt thanks and the thanks of Poetry Daily readers everywhere! Enjoy today's special poem! Diane Boller, Rob Anderson, Don Selby Editors staff at poems.com ------------------------------------------------------- MARILYN CHIN'S POETRY MONTH PICK, 4/19/02 "Deer Enclosure" by Wang Wei (Tang Dynasty, China) Empty Mountain, no humans But human voices are heard The light seeks through the deep forest And shimmers upon the green moss *Marilyn Chin comments: "The place is in Wang Wei's country retreat of vast acreage. Wang Wei was a wealthy, privileged court poet in his time and very famous. Westerners sometimes mistake his Buddhist hermit poems as being written by a poor ascetic poet. Well, let's just say that he was so rich that he owned a private retreat: I think of it as his own Yaddo. I am bowled over by Wang Wei's ability to make concrete details convey the spiritual. The landscape in this Buddhist poem is really 'inscape,' where human voices are tuned out by the poet's meditation and enlightenment. The light seeks through the forest and finds that clump of moss. The moss glitters in the poet's state of 'sitting,' of deep contemplation. The poet's consciousness and nature are one." MARILYN CHIN is the author of *Rhapsody in Plain Yellow*, *The Phoenix Gone, the Terrace Empty*, winner of the PEN Josephine Miles Award, and *Dwarf Bamboo*. She was born in Hong Kong and raised in Portland, Oregon. Two National Endowment for the Arts Fellowships, two Fulbright Fellowships, a Stegner Fellowship, four Pushcart Prizes, and a Mary Roberts Rinehart Award count among her many honors. Chin is currently on the faculty of the M.F.A. program at San Diego State University. She considers the Pacific Rim her home and San Diego her most recent exile. **Don't forget! -- If you enjoy our regular features and special events like this one, please join Marilyn Chin in supporting Poetry Daily by making a tax-deductible contribution. For more information and for secure online contributions: http://www.poems.com/support/support.htm ---------------------------------------------------- Copyright 2002 by the Daily Poetry Association. All rights reserved. http://www.poems.com/ From Serbpoet Sun Apr 21 21:04:46 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:04:46 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] POETRY LESsONS Message-ID: <15d.cba4d43.29f4bbae@aol.com> ANNOUNCING POETRYLESONS $1,000 per 50 LESSONS Anna Szymborbia has published in Paris Review, Conjunctions, Raritan, NEW YORKER, plus many others. Has taughrt at RIPOPN COLLEGE, ST JOHNS, YAKLE, PRINCETON. Guarantee will place your efforts in journals. Not queer or identity poetry will be sought. English required. E-mail for details. From gmcvay Sun Apr 21 21:17:50 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:17:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] POETRY LESsONS References: <15d.cba4d43.29f4bbae@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CC363BB.E2BBF6F@patriot.net> >>>Not queer or identity poetry will be sought.<<< Well, making only $20 per lesson, you sure wouldn't want to have to handle any unhygienic poetry. I will, however, continue reading Ginsberg without benefit of latex gloves to turn the pages. Gwyn From alphavil Sun Apr 21 23:04:11 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:04:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Eschatology of Reason References: <15d.cba4d43.29f4bbae@aol.com> <3CC363BB.E2BBF6F@patriot.net> Message-ID: <3CC37DAA.9C2A1B47@ix.netcom.com> A very brief and straightforward clip from Eschatology of Reason. All the material in quotes, except for the one quote from the bible, are from esteemed scientists and engineers whose deep and exclusive understanding and rigor seems to break down just about when they open their mouths. Carlo Parcelli from Eschatology of Reason "If biologists could 'rewind the tape' of evolution..." In the apocalyptic shuttle of commutability "They would have a full ensemble" And somehow only incrementally. And since "Embryonic cells are just robots in disguise" "Humanity is thus...a mere passing station... A critical gateway to the open-ended universe." Predestined "to create its own successors" Already "out there waiting." "Other forms of life, Artificial ones, That want To come into existence." His business card reads, "Larry Yeager, Microcosmic God"; Eschatological fallout From alphavil Sun Apr 21 23:09:46 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:09:46 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] from Eschatology of Reason References: <15d.cba4d43.29f4bbae@aol.com> <3CC363BB.E2BBF6F@patriot.net> <3CC37DAA.9C2A1B47@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3CC37EF9.7C705F01@ix.netcom.com> Apologies for the destruction of the spacing. CP "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" wrote: > A very brief and straightforward clip from Eschatology of Reason. All the > material in quotes, except for the one quote from the bible, are from > esteemed scientists and engineers whose deep and exclusive understanding and > rigor seems to break down just about when they open their mouths. Carlo > Parcelli > > from Eschatology of Reason > > "If biologists could 'rewind the tape' of evolution..." > In the apocalyptic shuttle of commutability > "They would have a full ensemble" > And somehow only > incrementally. > And since "Embryonic cells are just robots in disguise" > "Humanity is thus...a mere passing station... > A critical gateway to the > open-ended universe." > Predestined "to create its own successors" > Already "out there waiting." > "Other forms of life, > Artificial ones, > That want > To come into existence." > His business card reads, > "Larry Yeager, Microcosmic God"; > Eschatological fallout > >From the algorithmic romance > With immortality. > The void will not record that > Life was fumbled in the hands of such mediocrity. > All science is "the science of > last things." > The instrument of extinction. > Consciousness has been but the waiting pavement. > Artificial life is a flashback to the fall > And Literature has snapped together literal. > "Dead things could behave as if they were alive!" > "Everyone could see that the flocking was real. > Here were artificial birds really > flocking." > Not aware that "Life is a verb." > "...Adam gave names...to the fowl of the air." > "But then biologists will merely redefine life." > "Assembling it from pieces" > Or one piece, if "flocking" > Is to be a bird. > Yet who heard this mocking > That is to be > The mocking bird? > > p.181 > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames Mon Apr 22 10:19:23 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:19:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 39 (2002) Message-ID: <72.1b3df057.29f575eb@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:13:31 -0400 From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 39 (2002) Three Poems by James Sallis The Death of Virgil | The Death of Poetry | Artaud James Sallis' most recent collection of poems, Sorrow's Kitchen, came out from Michigan State UP in 2000. Black Night's Gonna Catch Me Here: Selected Poems is due out from Salmon Publishing, County Clare, Ireland, late this year, 2002. [There is no duplication between the two volumes.] Other books include Chester Himes: A Life, named a notable book of the year, 2001, by the New York Times, and Ghost of a Flea, his most recent novel, 2001, that occasioned an essay for the Times' ongoing feature "Writers on Writing." Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark at unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark From Serbpoet Mon Apr 22 20:05:42 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:05:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality Message-ID: <149.d5482e1.29f5ff56@aol.com> I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. Anna From grahamd Mon Apr 22 20:50:08 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:50:08 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Homosexuality Message-ID: <200204230049.g3N0nb293343@mx9.mx.voyager.net> I for one would pay good money to see a poet descibew almost anything. Easier said than done. David Graham (I'm cheap even for a Cheesehead Poet) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== >I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as >bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as >Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling >toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what >you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices >for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > >Anna From gmcvay Mon Apr 22 21:22:51 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: <149.d5482e1.29f5ff56@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Apr 2002 Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as > bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as > Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling > toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what > you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices > for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > Dear Anna, 1. Being female, I go by "Ms." 2. I have no children. I have three cats, and nobody has yet informed me of any sexual desires toward them. This is good, because all three cats are neutered. 3. There is no doubt that what Ginsberg describes is distasteful to some. But at least he was honest. I'll take honesty over a respectable facade any day, as when boy-loving priests pretend to have no sexual desire at all, while in fact molesting their altar boys. 4. I am not from New York and have also never published in the New Yorker. I do think you are pricing yourself a bit low. Around here, editors of the most painfully boring sort of business communication start around $20/hr. With all due respect, I remain Gwyn (a woman) From jvcervantes Mon Apr 22 21:22:56 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:22:56 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Homosexuality References: <200204230049.g3N0nb293343@mx9.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <3CC4B770.B4AE8E70@earthlink.net> But isn't it a somewhat fresh surprise to see "Billie" back? - Jim David Graham wrote: > > I for one would pay good money to see a poet descibew almost anything. > Easier said than done. > > David Graham (I'm cheap even for a Cheesehead Poet) > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > >I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as > >bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as > >Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling > >toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what > >you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices > >for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > > > >Anna > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From tadrichards Mon Apr 22 22:37:31 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:37:31 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Homosexuality References: <200204230049.g3N0nb293343@mx9.mx.voyager.net> <3CC4B770.B4AE8E70@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00b701c1ea6f$d1929ac0$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> I dunno...I preferred the original Billie. Check out The Old Mole's Poets and Jazz Musicians Gallery at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Cervantes" To: Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Re: Homosexuality > But isn't it a somewhat fresh surprise to see "Billie" back? > > - Jim > > David Graham wrote: > > > > I for one would pay good money to see a poet descibew almost anything. > > Easier said than done. > > > > David Graham (I'm cheap even for a Cheesehead Poet) > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ======================================== > > > > >I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as > > >bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as > > >Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews curling > > >toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this what > > >you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low prices > > >for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > > > > > >Anna > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From marcus Tue Apr 23 07:20:09 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:20:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: References: <149.d5482e1.29f5ff56@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CC50B29.1631.5B6105@localhost> > But at least he was honest. I'll take honesty over a respectable facade > any day...<< This view would exclude, it seems to me, most art -- including much of Ginsberg's. I, for one, simply do not believe that honesty is better in art than artifice. Artifice is what makes art art. Honesty is simply not art, nor is it any significant part of art. Give me an entertaining and compelling lie over mere trivial honesty in art any time. For example, don't you hate that phrase some people use in telling an anecdote: "True story ...!" ? I do -- my instant response is "Forget the true story, pal -- how about something that you made up and that is FUNNY." Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Robtberner Tue Apr 23 08:36:01 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:36:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] artifice Message-ID: <14b.cc6f311.29f6af31@aol.com> marcus bales writes that artifice is what makes art art. oh? seems to me that art makes art and artifice makes artificiality. and if he really prefers lies, there are plenty in the wall street journal five days a week and in any press briefing by ari fleisher, all dressed in the loveliest artifices of speech ever conceived by a spinmeister or a p r man. honest. Robert Berner From Robtberner Tue Apr 23 08:54:19 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:54:19 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] funny, honest art Message-ID: <19d.12807c6.29f6b37b@aol.com> on april 20 the british newspaper TheIndependent revealed that the bush administration pandered to exxon's wishes by engineering the removal of Dr. Robert Watson from a UN panel on climate change. A friend of mine, Michael P. (Let's Drill Here) Dumont sent me the following ditty: The Exxon Valdez lives!!! Pass the bottle while I navigate this shoal... Just a little drink, whadduh-yuh think? Pass the glass, I'll say skol, Oh, whatthe hell, it's just a little hole. Oil the critters, grease those birds, It's leaked to the press, oh my words, Exxon in a pile of turds. robert berner From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 23 09:11:24 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:11:24 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality Message-ID: In a message dated 4/22/2002 7:07:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Serbpoet at aol.com writes: > > I am not versus the homosexual. Myself, would be described myself as > bisexual in matter of fact. But the auto masturbation poetry of such as > Ginsberg is against the beauty of art. In one such poetry descibews > curling > toes before his orgasm of thinking of boys ass to increase it. Is this > what > you are Mr Gwyn? Your children? Forgive my unfsahionability and low > prices > for poetry lessons of a New Yorker poet. > > Anna > He's baaaaaack! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcus Tue Apr 23 09:50:00 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:50:00 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] artifice In-Reply-To: <14b.cc6f311.29f6af31@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CC52E48.19280.E70D5@localhost> > Robert Berner: > marcus bales writes that artifice is what makes art art. oh? seems to me > that art makes art and artifice makes artificiality. and if he really prefers > lies, there are plenty in the wall street journal five days a week and in any > press briefing by ari fleisher, all dressed in the loveliest artifices of > speech ever conceived by a spinmeister or a p r man. honest. Not all lies are art. Not all art is lies, unless you want to be really a stickler about it and say that all language is necessarily lying because it involves selection and emphasis and cannot convey the totality of the experience it purports to describe or evoke. What I said was that honesty doesn't make art, and that I prefer art to mere honesty, even if that art is fiction -- or, in short, lies. But lying doesn't make something art any more than honesty makes something art. Art is not merely lying or merely honesty -- it's artifice in the service of evocation. Whether any piece of art is lying or honest has little, or nothing, to do with whether it is art. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Janet.Kieffer Tue Apr 23 10:00:36 2002 From: Janet.Kieffer (Janet Kieffer) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:00:36 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] artifice Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Marcus Bales [mailto:marcus at designerglass.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:50 AM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] artifice Not all lies are art. Not all art is lies, unless you want to be really a stickler about it and say that all language is necessarily lying because it involves selection and emphasis and cannot convey the totality of the experience it purports to describe or evoke. What I said was that honesty doesn't make art, and that I prefer art to mere honesty, even if that art is fiction -- or, in short, lies. But lying doesn't make something art any more than honesty makes something art. Art is not merely lying or merely honesty -- it's artifice in the service of evocation. Whether any piece of art is lying or honest has little, or nothing, to do with whether it is art. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely Marcus, really--are you going KEEGAN on us? From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 10:05:57 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:05:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: <3CC50B29.1631.5B6105@localhost> Message-ID: It's not a *complete* measure of art, by any means, and "honesty" is sometimes a slippery bugger (!) anyway, but don't you find it more humorous to know that there really is a biomolecular researcher named Professor W. W. Webb (you can search on him/her as author in PubMed), than to have that name given to a fictional character? It *sounds* like a dorky little animated character that Microsoft would put in to walk you through using the latest Internet Explorer, but it's an actual person, who is probably well tired of jokes to his/her face about having been created by Al Gore. (Not to mention publishing in a journal routinely abbreviated to Anal. Chem.) Gwyn From marcus Tue Apr 23 10:27:59 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:27:59 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: References: <3CC50B29.1631.5B6105@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC5372F.26101.313889@localhost> Gwyn: > ... don't you find it more > humorous to know that there really is a biomolecular researcher named > Professor W. W. Webb (you can search on him/her as author in PubMed), than > to have that name given to a fictional character? ...< I don't know if it's "more" humorous -- it's a different kind of humor. Why do we find PG Wodehouse's village names funny (though made up) in a way we don't find actual village names funny (though the real ones are funny in another way)? What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" humorous than the other? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 10:29:22 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: <3CC5372F.26101.313889@localhost> Message-ID: > I don't know if it's "more" humorous -- it's a different kind of humor. > Why do we find PG Wodehouse's village names funny (though > made up) in a way we don't find actual village names funny (though > the real ones are funny in another way)? > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > humorous than the other? > Dear Marcus, I blush to confess that at my advanced age, I have not yet read a single Wodehouse, though my husband has great heaps of them lying around. I regret that I must table answering your questions until I have personally investigated said heaps. Yours as ever, Gwyn From Henry_Gould Tue Apr 23 10:30:27 2002 From: Henry_Gould (Henry Gould) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:30:27 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: truth & artifice In-Reply-To: References: <3CC50B29.1631.5B6105@localhost> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020423102026.00ab0450@postoffice.brown.edu> Ornament & structure balance each other. No filigree without a dome. No arabesque without a plumbline. We turn truth into song as our approximation of an awesome real - Yeats' "mighty scene". Truth & artifice are not discrete but welded together - in order to prevail over falsehood & emptiness. From Serbpoet Tue Apr 23 11:09:01 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:09:01 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality Message-ID: <12d.101b61ca.29f6d30d@aol.com> "Truth & artifice are not discrete but welded together - in order to prevail over falsehood & emptiness." I am in accord thus. Vi nazivaete sebya estemlerami--"falsehood is the ghost toes of an amputee." Dear My Critics, By picking the noses in spite of every admonitions to the opposite behavior, or when you see you sticking your finger nonstop through a buttonholes...the analytic doctor knows that the the appetite of the lustful ones knows not of any limits in his phantasies. I am worship to beauty of poetry. Let be my critic to demean self. I cannot be. Anna From GrahamD Tue Apr 23 11:42:13 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:42:13 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorsexuality Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E00@mail.ripon.edu> Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. David Graham, ever-patient (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Marcus Bales > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > humorous than the other? > > > > Marcus Bales > > From marcus Tue Apr 23 11:53:01 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:53:01 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality In-Reply-To: References: <3CC5372F.26101.313889@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC54B1D.11878.7F1550@localhost> > I blush to confess that at my advanced age, I have not yet read a single > Wodehouse, though my husband has great heaps of them lying around. I > regret that I must table answering your questions until I have personally > investigated said heaps. Are names such as Duntisbourne Leer or Cold Aston or Ampney Crucis funnier or less funny than Totleigh-in-the-Wold, or Lower Smattering-on- the-Wissel? And why? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 11:50:30 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Deeper Meaning of Liff, by Douglas Adams In-Reply-To: <3CC54B1D.11878.7F1550@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Marcus Bales wrote: > > I blush to confess that at my advanced age, I have not yet read a single > > Wodehouse, though my husband has great heaps of them lying around. I > > regret that I must table answering your questions until I have personally > > investigated said heaps. > > Are names such as Duntisbourne Leer or Cold Aston or Ampney Crucis > funnier or less funny than Totleigh-in-the-Wold, or Lower Smattering-on- > the-Wissel? > > And why? > Nope. Still not gonna answer this one until I've read at least one of the books, so's I can see the names in context. There is a hint, however, in the now-changed subject line. Gwyn From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 23 12:03:37 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:03:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] artifice Message-ID: <95.1b5d9ffc.29f6dfd9@cs.com> John Ciardi used to say, "A poem lies its way to the truth." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Serbpoet Tue Apr 23 12:15:12 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:15:12 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Homosexuality Message-ID: <72.1b519626.29f6e290@aol.com> Nor can one aid to the EXILE caught by death In a New Worlds sub urban ghetto exposed to the hot breath Of this AMERICA, this humid night: Through unslatted blinds the strips of colory light Grope for her bed--poets of the past With philtered gemmy girdles--and life is ebbing fast. Esto est votchez ut mid ik dett. From hruggier Tue Apr 23 12:55:22 2002 From: hruggier (Helen Ruggieri) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:55:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorsexuality References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E00@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CC591FA.5FAB31E9@localnet.com> Should we all descwibe what we think is funny? H R "Graham, David" wrote: > Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, > of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. > > Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. > > David Graham, ever-patient > > (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > > ---------- > > From: Marcus Bales > > > > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > > humorous than the other? > > > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gudding Tue Apr 23 13:20:47 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:20:47 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: <3CC591FA.5FAB31E9@localnet.com> Message-ID: It's generally accepted that there are three main theories of humor. 1. The Superiority Theory. Generally considered to stem from Th. Hobbes, who said that laughter results from a sense of "sudden glory" that comes over someone when he or she feels superior to another. Thus we laugh at clows because they are foolish, stupid, clumsy. 2. The Incongruity Theory. Generlly considered to stem from Kant and Schopenhauer, who suggested that we laugh at something when it affronts our sense of order. Thus we laugh at clowns because they have incongruously big shoes, round red noses, orange hair, ride small bicycles and walk with a strange gait. 3. The Repression Theory. Laughter is a relieved expression of dissent against reason, order, civility, rules and laws. Promulgated by Freud. Thus we laugh at clowns because they are bucking the system, being offensive, fucking the man, being unreasonable, and throwing mule dung at the ring master. There are other theories that are pretty cool, too. I especially like Henri Bergson's, which insists that the comic is something "mechanical encrusted upon the living." That is to say, that machines are funny. Thus Flann O'Brien's discursions upon the bicycle in _The Third Policeman_ or Beckett's discursions upon the same in _Molloy_ are funny because machines are necessarily funny. Gabriel Gudding On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Helen Ruggieri wrote: > Should we all descwibe what we think is funny? > > H R > > "Graham, David" wrote: > > > Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, > > of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. > > > > Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. > > > > David Graham, ever-patient > > > > (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ======================================== > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > > > humorous than the other? > > > > > > > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From jvcervantes Tue Apr 23 13:26:23 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:26:23 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Humorsexuality References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E00@mail.ripon.edu> <3CC591FA.5FAB31E9@localnet.com> Message-ID: <3CC5993E.4B93C470@earthlink.net> Dis thwed is funny. - Jimmikins Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > Should we all descwibe what we think is funny? > > H R > > "Graham, David" wrote: > > > Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, > > of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. > > > > Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. > > > > David Graham, ever-patient > > > > (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ======================================== > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > > > humorous than the other? > > > > > > > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From jvcervantes Tue Apr 23 13:28:58 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:28:58 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality References: Message-ID: <3CC599D9.F83C0EC0@earthlink.net> But those are all just different ways of getting to the real payoff: release of endorphins and that feeling in the tummy of being in dolphins. - Jim, who flunked chemistry and physiology "Gabriel M. Gudding" wrote: > > It's generally accepted that there are three main theories of humor. > > 1. The Superiority Theory. Generally considered to stem from Th. Hobbes, > who said that laughter results from a sense of "sudden glory" that comes > over someone when he or she feels superior to another. Thus we laugh at > clows because they are foolish, stupid, clumsy. > > 2. The Incongruity Theory. Generlly considered to stem from Kant and > Schopenhauer, who suggested that we laugh at something when it affronts > our sense of order. Thus we laugh at clowns because they have > incongruously big shoes, round red noses, orange hair, ride small bicycles > and walk with a strange gait. > > 3. The Repression Theory. Laughter is a relieved expression of dissent > against reason, order, civility, rules and laws. Promulgated by Freud. > Thus we laugh at clowns because they are bucking the system, being > offensive, fucking the man, being unreasonable, and throwing mule dung at > the ring master. > > There are other theories that are pretty cool, too. I especially like > Henri Bergson's, which insists that the comic is something "mechanical > encrusted upon the living." That is to say, that machines are funny. Thus > Flann O'Brien's discursions upon the bicycle in _The Third Policeman_ or > Beckett's discursions upon the same in _Molloy_ are funny because machines > are necessarily funny. > > Gabriel Gudding > > On Tue, 23 Apr > 2002, Helen Ruggieri wrote: > > > Should we all descwibe what we think is funny? > > > > H R > > > > "Graham, David" wrote: > > > > > Yes, by all means let's get out our Humo-meters and begin measuring! First, > > > of course, we must classify and separate humor into its many kinds. > > > > > > Be sure to let me know when you're done with that. > > > > > > David Graham, ever-patient > > > > > > (sorry, just HAD to change this annoying subject line) > > > > > > ======================================== > > > David Graham > > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > > Home Page: > > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > > Poetry Library: > > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > > ======================================== > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > From: Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > > > > > What IS the difference in the sorts of humor, and is one "more" > > > > humorous than the other? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marcus Bales > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New-Poetry mailing list > > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Henry_Gould Tue Apr 23 13:51:11 2002 From: Henry_Gould (Henry Gould) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:51:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: References: <3CC591FA.5FAB31E9@localnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020423134010.00aa8100@postoffice.brown.edu> I read somewhere that Euripides' play "Deus ex Machina" represented a transition from tragedy to comedy in Greece, & that the "d ex m" plot was imitated by later playwrights for comic effect (Moliere et al). Ever since Prometheus & the Iron Age technology (machines) have been thought of either as partial relief for grinding toil or as having threatening, demonic, tragic potential (war, the bomb, etc). Perhaps comedy itself IS the deus ex machina - a laugh-track trigger in the DNA - which will help reverse this potential (of technology in general) from tragic to comic. Henry > That is to say, that machines are funny. Thus >Flann O'Brien's discursions upon the bicycle in _The Third Policeman_ or >Beckett's discursions upon the same in _Molloy_ are funny because machines >are necessarily funny. > >Gabriel Gudding From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 14:22:08 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:22:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 3. The Repression Theory. Laughter is a relieved expression of dissent > against reason, order, civility, rules and laws. Promulgated by Freud. > Thus we laugh at clowns because they are bucking the system, being > offensive, fucking the man, being unreasonable, and throwing mule dung at > the ring master. Dear guh, I think if I saw a clown fucking anyone, I would die of a major eyebleed. As it is, I'm going to have to scrub my brain with hemp soap to get this image out. Thanks SO much, gee From marcus Tue Apr 23 14:31:32 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:31:32 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Deeper Meaning of Liff, by Douglas Adams In-Reply-To: References: <3CC54B1D.11878.7F1550@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC57044.28798.120C80@localhost> > Nope. Still not gonna answer this one until I've read at least one of the > books, so's I can see the names in context. There is a hint, however, in > the now-changed subject line. Well, then, you're wrong about WW Webb being funnier as a real person than as a made-up name because I've never met him, and can't judge whether his personality supports such a claim. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 14:27:22 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] The Deeper Meaning of Liff, by Douglas Adams In-Reply-To: <3CC57044.28798.120C80@localhost> Message-ID: > Well, then, you're wrong about WW Webb being funnier as a real > person than as a made-up name because I've never met him, and > can't judge whether his personality supports such a claim. > DING! Marcus said "claim" again! Everybody has to drink! Gwyn, who got absolutely schnockered playing this game on a different list one week From marcus Tue Apr 23 15:30:52 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:30:52 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] The Deeper Meaning of Liff, by Douglas Adams In-Reply-To: References: <3CC57044.28798.120C80@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC57E2C.8012.251202@localhost> > > Well, then, you're wrong about WW Webb being funnier as a real > > person than as a made-up name because I've never met him, and > > can't judge whether his personality supports such a claim. Gwyn: > DING! Marcus said "claim" again! Everybody has to drink! > Gwyn, who got absolutely schnockered playing this game on a different list > one week If you have an opinion, think it out and put it forward. But to gas out an opinion and refuse either to make it clear or expound on it when asked isn't conversation, Gwyn -- it's just blurt. Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 23 15:32:16 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:32:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality Message-ID: <82.1aa62e68.29f710c0@cs.com> Who was it said, "If they laugh, it's comedy." Harry Cohn? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gudding Tue Apr 23 15:35:38 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:35:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear gee, Eyebleeds are my specialty. Glad to oblige!guh Then Gwyn said, > Dear guh, > > I think if I saw a clown fucking anyone, I would die of a major eyebleed. > As it is, I'm going to have to scrub my brain with hemp soap to get this > image out. > > Thanks SO much, gee > > 3. The Repression Theory. Laughter is a relieved expression of dissent > > against reason, order, civility, rules and laws. Promulgated by Freud. > > Thus we laugh at clowns because they are bucking the system, being > > offensive, fucking the man, being unreasonable, and throwing mule dung at > > the ring master. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Robtberner Tue Apr 23 15:33:07 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:33:07 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] art and artifice Message-ID: <163.ca8bcd4.29f710f3@aol.com> in one of his recent screeds, marcus bales writes that art "is artifice in the service of evocation." this may be true of some forms of art. a medieval stained glass window, for example, may well have evoked in the peasant bodo a sense of his duty to god. but a 21st century person viewing the same window may well think only of color, structure, portraiture, the skill of the window-maker, and so on. but the window itself is still a window, a thing , to be valued and admired for itself and not merely for what it represents or evokes. art is art and everything else is everything else. robert berner From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 15:39:53 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Being insanely explicit In-Reply-To: <3CC57E2C.8012.251202@localhost> Message-ID: I make no judgment on the person of Professor W. W. Webb. Having viewed the abstracts of some of his articles as displayed at PubMed, his work does not seem funny one bit. But his name seems funny to me--funnier to me than if it had been an invented name for some internet-teaching software, because, as Gabe points out, it is the humor of incongruity: you don't expect a human being to have a name very similar to that of a concept or consumer product (to me, "World Wide Web" straddles both categories). Kindly refrain from pronouncing judgment on the state of my intestinal gas. Does your spleen need venting? Gwyn From gudding Tue Apr 23 15:45:33 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:45:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] mississippi humanities council grant announcement In-Reply-To: <3CC57E2C.8012.251202@localhost> Message-ID: My colleague, Mairead Byrne, and I have, this semester, been teaching an advanced creative writing course at the Marshall County Correctional Facility in Holly Springs, MS. We were awarded a mini-grant from the Mississippi Humanities Council to fund this course. In keeping with a grant stipulation, I am with this email announcing to all within and without the state of Mississippi that the MHC awarded a mini-grant to Mairead Byrne, the University of Mississippi, and me. Thus this email. Be it known that we have received $1921.15 by the Mississippi Humanities Council in order to teach advanced fiction and poetry to the inmates of the Marshall County Correctional Facility, many of whom are Baptists. Gabriel Gudding From gudding Tue Apr 23 16:30:45 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:30:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020423134010.00aa8100@postoffice.brown.edu> Message-ID: Well that's interesting, Henry, because, as far as I understand it, many comic plots tend toward resolution from chaos. That is, one of the key features of a comic plot is The Happy Ending (a not so distant relative of your deus ex machina). It's seen most often in the old (and the new) hymeneal plays and can be found nowadays in the many romantic comedy movies that happen to end in marriage. The idea of the fix-it ending -- the deus ex machina -- is common to many comedies even today. But I, uhh, think the "machina" you're referring to here is different from the machine that Bergson would be referring to in the phrase "the mechanical encrusted upon the living." He was referring specifically to living beings, us with our girded and hinging pooties, or the robotic-like chihuahua. What's more, a great many comic plots do not resolve themselves harmoniously. I read somewhere, and it strikes me as true, that there are two contrary tendencies in comic plots: one is a movement toward chaos and disorder and the other is toward harmony -- just as there are two sides to laughter: the derision of wit and the warm balm of a friendly chuckle. So I don't think that Bergson was talking about machines, per se, though I hinted at that below. Bergson was talking about the intentional or accidental mixing of the living with the mechanical. Think more of Charlie Chaplin in the cogs as being funny rather than the cogs themselves.guh On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Henry Gould wrote: > I read somewhere that Euripides' play "Deus ex Machina" represented a > transition from tragedy to comedy in Greece, & that the "d ex m" plot was > imitated by later playwrights for comic effect (Moliere et al). > > Ever since Prometheus & the Iron Age technology (machines) have been > thought of either as partial relief for grinding toil or as having > threatening, demonic, tragic potential (war, the bomb, etc). Perhaps > comedy itself IS the deus ex machina - a laugh-track trigger in the DNA - > which will help reverse this potential (of technology in general) from > tragic to comic. > > Henry > > > That is to say, that machines are funny. Thus > >Flann O'Brien's discursions upon the bicycle in _The Third Policeman_ or > >Beckett's discursions upon the same in _Molloy_ are funny because machines > >are necessarily funny. > > > >Gabriel Gudding > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From marcus Tue Apr 23 16:59:50 2002 From: marcus (Marcus Bales) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:59:50 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Being insanely explicit In-Reply-To: References: <3CC57E2C.8012.251202@localhost> Message-ID: <3CC59306.30110.7686C3@localhost> > I make no judgment on the person of Professor W. W. Webb.<< But you clearly do -- you say his name is funnier to you because he exists than it would be to you if his name were made up by someone trying to be funny -- or by someone trying not to be funny, too, I imagine. But why do you say so? For my part, it seems to me that it's not funny in the least -- or if it is funny in the least it is "funny peculiar" and not "funny haha". > ... his name seems funny to me--funnier to me > than if it had been an invented name for some internet-teaching software, > because, as Gabe points out, it is the humor of incongruity: you don't > expect a human being to have a name very similar to that of a concept or > consumer product (to me, "World Wide Web" straddles both categories).< It would be funny if his first names were "World" and "Wide" but probably they are something like "William" or "Walter" or the like. Why wouldn't you expect to find someone named WW Webb? A google search reveals this about a WW Webb different from the one you refer to: "... Until he died [WW] Webb was an astrologer and artist. Together with his wife Mary-Ann, Fisher and Shreves, he founded the 'Philosophic Gnostic Hermetic Society' (PGHS), at Joshua Tree in 1963; it was a kind of Californian XI? offshoot of the Choronzon Club..." So there are at least two WW Webbs -- one a dead crank and the other a live scientist. No doubt there are others if one cared to look. I don't see why you find it unexpected and therefore funny that there would be people with names such as WW Webb -- which is straightforwardly unfunny and not made funny in any way I can see by there being a World Wide Web. It's just not the same kind of thing as Barb Dwyer http://www.hotkey.net.au/~beelzebarb/ Candy Barr http://www.candybarrartist.com/ Harry Caray http://www.powermaxconsulting.com/harrycaray.htm Ima Hogg http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/HH/fho16.html each of which (and there are many more) have a certain (sometimes appalling -- what were the parents of Ima Hogg *thinking*!?) humorousness. But are such names funnier when they are real than when they are made up: Xavier Onassis, for example? Or the closing credits from "Car Talk": http://cartalk.cars.com/About/credits.html ? What makes, in your opinion, real names funnier than made-up ones? > Kindly refrain from pronouncing judgment on the state of my intestinal > gas. Does your spleen need venting? Marcus Bales marcus at designerglass.com http://pub15.ezboard.com/btimely From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 17:12:45 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Being insanely explicit In-Reply-To: <3CC59306.30110.7686C3@localhost> Message-ID: Dear Marcus, I am going to answer you mainly because the other list you and I are on is stuttering like a goddamn fricking CD player on skip, and I can't take it anymore. I find it *funny, in a Schadenfreude kind of way,* to contemplate, as I said, how many times Professor WWW has heard jokes made to him OR HER (it could as easily be Wilfreda Wilhelmina) about having been created by Al Gore. I do not find the made-up names at the end of Car Talk (or Prairie Home Companion) nearly as funny as Tom and Ray Magliozzi seem to find themselves. It would be funnier to me if some unthinking and/or innocent mother had named her real son Xavier Onassis, and he were revealed to be the true author of that very popular _Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook._ I like it when the silly names of real people are matched to their actual professions. Thus, it is slightly funny that I was once treated by a Dr. Organ, but it would have been funnier had he been an internist rather than an orthopedist. I do go to a clinic where I refuse to see a Dr. Payne, and I derive comfort in living just five minutes' drive from the office of a dentist named Dr. Capps. I cannot say which of the categories enumerated by Gabriel properly contains these names. I do know that the element of ribaldry makes it funnier yet to me that, in the same town as Dr. Capps, there practices a gynecologist named Dr. Harry Beaver. The fact that the "real" name of the title character on the Pepsi-sponsored radio program "Counterspy" was Harry Peters is somewhat less funny to me, because the character is a counterspy, not a urologist, and in any case the name is made up: it is funny-horrible like Prof. WWW, but, in this case, could easily have been avoided. WWW's mother could not have predicted technological advances, and so the chance element creates the unexpected juxtaposition of having Dr. WWW available on the WWW. But this is like trying to dissect a pig in vivo: the scalpel keeps slipping. I know that I don't laugh at "A-Plumbing We Will Go" (The Three Stooges, 1932) because I honestly find it humorous when plumbing accidents happen to trios of short Jewish men, two of whom happen to be brothers. I know that the various comedy routines put together by Cheech Marin and Tommy Chong are markedly less funny when one is not currently under the influence of marijuana, but are still funnier if one has smoked some at some time in one's life than if one has never smoked any at all. So humor, and degrees thereof, are SUBJECTIVE? MMKAY? Gwyn, making a funny face From Serbpoet Tue Apr 23 21:14:59 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:14:59 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha Message-ID: <190.5eceaff.29f76113@aol.com> What is mechanical of Gudding is to describe prison poetry of his voluntary goodness. He is good. He is saint and paertner is co-saint. He is not careeristist. But he has carree all the time on his front of the brain. No-career is his career. No-ambition his ambition. Not naturallyfunny, boring, so this person always talks clowny. Poetry for holy of holiers. All the time ginsberg perversity of auto self masturbation is canon. If boring me is good poetry. Pointing to obvious, uhh, guh, good postings. From jvcervantes Tue Apr 23 21:20:31 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:20:31 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha References: <190.5eceaff.29f76113@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CC60860.E801F06C@earthlink.net> I don't mean to be crass or insensitive, but just how many "Billies" are there? - Jimski Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > > What is mechanical of Gudding is to describe prison poetry of his voluntary > goodness. He is good. He is saint and paertner is co-saint. He is not > careeristist. But he has carree all the time on his front of the brain. > No-career is his career. No-ambition his ambition. Not naturallyfunny, > boring, so this person always talks clowny. Poetry for holy of holiers. All > the time ginsberg perversity of auto self masturbation is canon. If boring > me is good poetry. Pointing to obvious, uhh, guh, good postings. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gmcvay Tue Apr 23 22:39:23 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:39:23 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha References: <190.5eceaff.29f76113@aol.com> <3CC60860.E801F06C@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3CC61AD1.220518F5@patriot.net> >>> I don't mean to be crass or insensitive, but just how many "Billies" are there? - Jimski<<< Yeah, and how many that study Zen? "No-career is his career," my impermanent ass. McVay Roshi From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 23 22:47:40 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:47:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha Message-ID: <43.a6c6093.29f776cc@cs.com> In a message dated 4/23/2002 9:38:19 PM Central Daylight Time, gmcvay at patriot.net writes: > >>> I don't mean to be crass or insensitive, but just how many "Billies" are > there? > > - Jimski<<< > > Yeah, and how many that study Zen? "No-career is his career," my > impermanent ass. > > McVay Roshi > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > Thank you, Gwyn the Woman. Gwynn, The Man -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gudding Tue Apr 23 23:43:58 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:43:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha In-Reply-To: <190.5eceaff.29f76113@aol.com> Message-ID: Dude. You need some serious spellczech.guh On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > What is mechanical of Gudding is to describe prison poetry of his voluntary > goodness. He is good. He is saint and paertner is co-saint. He is not > careeristist. But he has carree all the time on his front of the brain. > No-career is his career. No-ambition his ambition. Not naturallyfunny, > boring, so this person always talks clowny. Poetry for holy of holiers. All > the time ginsberg perversity of auto self masturbation is canon. If boring > me is good poetry. Pointing to obvious, uhh, guh, good postings. > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > From Janet.Kieffer Wed Apr 24 01:18:30 2002 From: Janet.Kieffer (Janet Kieffer) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:18:30 -0600 Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha Message-ID: Oh shit, I missed you not-on-purpose Viktor-------? Send mail! -----Original Message----- From: Serbpoet at aol.com [mailto:Serbpoet at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:15 PM To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu Subject: [New-Poetry] Ha ha ha What is mechanical of Gudding is to describe prison poetry of his voluntary goodness. He is good. He is saint and paertner is co-saint. He is not careeristist. But he has carree all the time on his front of the brain. No-career is his career. No-ambition his ambition. Not naturallyfunny, boring, so this person always talks clowny. Poetry for holy of holiers. All the time ginsberg perversity of auto self masturbation is canon. If boring me is good poetry. Pointing to obvious, uhh, guh, good postings. _______________________________________________ New-Poetry mailing list New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JforJames Wed Apr 24 15:31:03 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:31:03 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 2002 BOSTON POETRY MARATHON Message-ID: <38.26e41399.29f861f7@aol.com> 2002 BOSTON POETRY MARATHON Thursday, June 6 - Sunday, June 9 at the Art Institute of Boston 700 Beacon Street in Kenmore Square Readers will include: Jim Behrle Charles Bernstein Janet Bowdan Norma Cole James Cook Del Ray Cross Christopher Davis Donna de la Perriere Stephen Ellis Ethan Fugate Joanna Fuhrman Forrest Gander Aaron Kiely Susan Landers Joseph Lease Bill Luoma Tracey McTague Sharon Mesmer Gina Myers Jena Osman Maureen Owen Wanda Phipps Bin Ramke David Rivard Juliana Spahr and many others Admission is free. For more info: bostonpoetry at thevortex.com From JforJames Wed Apr 24 15:40:40 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:40:40 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] For The Sake Of A Single Poem Message-ID: <62.1ea984dd.29f86438@aol.com> [FOR THE SAKE OF A SINGLE POEM] ...Ah, poems amount to so little when you write them too early in your life. You ought to wait and gather sense and sweetness for a whole lifetime, and a long one if possible, and then, at the very end, you might perhaps be able to write ten good lines. For poems are not, as people think, simply emotions (one has emotions early enough)--they are experiences. For the sake of a single poem, you must see many cities, many people and Things, you must understand animals, must feel how birds fly, and know the gesture which small flowers make when they open in the morning. You must be able to think back to streets in unknown neighborhoods, to unexpected encounters, and to partings you had long seen coming; to days of childhood whose mystery is still unexplained, to parents whom you had to hurt when they brought in a joy and you didn't pick it up (it was a joy meant for someone else--); to childhood illnesses that began so strangely with so many profound and difficult transformations, to days in quiet, restrained rooms and to mornings by the sea, to the sea itself, to seas, to nights of travel that rushed along high overhead and went flying with all the stars,--and it is still not enough to be able to think of all that. You must have memories of many nights of love, each one different from all the others, memories of women screaming in labor, and of light, pale, sleeping girls who have just given birth and are closing again. But you must also have been beside the dying, must have sat beside the bedside of the dead in the room with the open window and the scattered noises. And it is not yet enough to have memories. You must be able to forget them when they are many, and you must have the immense patience to wait until they return. For the memories themselves are not important. Only when they have changed into our very blood, into glance and gesture, and are nameless, no longer to be distinguished from ourselves--only then can it happen that in some very rare hour the first word of a poem arises in their midst and goes forth from them. from THE SELECTED POETRY OF RAINER MARIA RILKE translated by Stephen Mitchell Copyright (c) 1980, 1981, 1982 by Stephen Mitchell Archaic Torso of Apollo From JforJames Wed Apr 24 20:09:11 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:09:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] 2 Sharon Olds poems Message-ID: Sharon Olds +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Outdoor Shower Crusted with dried brack, dusted with sand, shaking from the cold Atlantic, hair gristled with crystals, tangled with the jellied palps of wrack -- just step on this slatted rack, pull the iron handle of the forged world toward you. The sluice courses, down your shin, in a swirling motion, milk smoke, the silky rush of fresh water, supple and alkaline. Lids clenched, you reach for the small oil torso of soap, run it along your limbs and whirl it over the points of the three-point shower star of sex: arm-put, arm-pit, sex. Then the gritty dial of your face, lather it, bring it under the coursing, and open your mouth, stone-sweet well-water, and then the head, delve it in so the sand around the scalp dances like the ions at the edges of matter, and the shampoo, mild soldier, take her by the shoulders and pour the pale eel on your head. Then feel them going: salp, chitin, diatom, dulse, the blind ones of the ocean. Rinse until it pours down your head like water, the dark descendant pelf of the land. Now open your eyes -- green lawn, silver pond, grey dune, blue Atlantic, the simple fields of God, liquid and solid. Turn and turn in hot water, column of heat in the cool wind and sunny air, squeeze your eyes and then open them again -- look, it is still there, the world as in heaven, your body at the edge of it. My Mother's Pansies And all that time, in back of the house, there were pansies growing, some silt blue, some silt yellow, most of them sable red or purplish sable, heavy as velvet curtains, so soft they seemed wet but they were dry as powder on a luna's wing, dust on an alluvial path, in a drought summer. And they were open like lips, and pouted like lips, and had a tiny fur-gold v, which made bees not be able to not want. And so, although women, in our lobes and sepals, our corollas and spurs, seemed despised spathe, style-arm, standard, crest, and fall, still there were those plush entries, night mouth, pillow mouth, anyone might want to push their pinky, or anything, into such velveteen chambers, such throats, each midnight-velvet petal saying touch-touch-touch, please-touch, please-touch, each sex like a spirit -- shy, flushed, praying. from BLOOD, TIN, STRAW Copyright (c) 1999 by Sharon Olds ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ More Sharon Olds: http://www.aaknopf.com/authors/olds/poem.html From grahamd Wed Apr 24 22:44:57 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:44:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Etheridge Knight Message-ID: <200204250243.g3P2hAu89619@mx8.mx.voyager.net> Query: is anyone aware of a recording of Etheridge Knight reading his poem "Ilu, The Talking Drum"? I have a very good Watershed tape of Knight, but that particular poem's omitted. Any other leads on Knight recordings, actually, would be welcome. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== From halvard Thu Apr 25 00:23:11 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:23:11 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Kenneth Koch, "Desire for Spring" Message-ID: Desire for Spring Calcium days, days when we feed our bones! Iron days, which enrich our blood! Saltwater days, which give us valuable iodine! When will there be a perfectly ordinary spring day? For my heart needs to be fed, not my urine Or my brain, and I wish to leap to Pittsburgh From gudding Thu Apr 25 13:08:38 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:08:38 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: Humorsexuality In-Reply-To: <82.1aa62e68.29f710c0@cs.com> Message-ID: I do not know who said that. On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > Who was it said, "If they laugh, it's comedy." Harry Cohn? > From snospx Fri Apr 26 12:46:54 2002 From: snospx (Barry Spacks) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:46:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry digest, Vol 1 #774 - 1 msg In-Reply-To: <200204261601.g3QG14Q28459@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020426094654.007e9300@snowcrest.net> >Rsgwynn queries: > >> Who was it said, "If they laugh, it's comedy." Harry Cohn? --------- >Gabriel M. Gudding replies >> I do not know who said that. --------- "very funny" -- Harry Cohn From ulin+ Thu Apr 25 15:36:14 2002 From: ulin+ (Don Ulin) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:36:14 -1000 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: NATIONAL POETRY MONTH References: <3CC80080.49CA575B@localnet.com> Message-ID: <3CC85AAE.60416212@pitt.edu> a bit clunky, but not bad for a politician! -- Don Helen Ruggieri wrote: > Today's poem is by Kenneth Koch. > > Desire for Spring > > Calcium days, days when we feed our bones! > Iron days, which enrich our blood! > Saltwater days, which give us valuable iodine! > When will there be a perfectly ordinary spring day? > For my heart needs to be fed, not my urine > Or my brain, and I wish to leap to Pittsburgh > >From Tuskegee, Indiana, if necessary, spreading like a flower > In the spring light, and growing like a silver stair. > Nothing else will satisfy me, not even death! > Not even broken life insurance policies, cancer, loss of health, > Ruined furniture, prostate disease, headaches, melancholia, > No, not even a ravaging wolf eating up my flesh! > I want spring, I want to turn like a mobile > In a new fresh air! I don't want to hibernate > Between walls, between halls! I want to bear > My share of the anguish of being succinctly here! > Not even moths in the spell of the flame > Can want it to be warmer so much as I do! > Not even the pilot slipping into the great green sea > In flames can want less to be turned into an icicle! > Though admiring the icicle's cunning, how shall I be satisfied > With artificial daisies and roses, and wax pears? > O breeze, my lovely, come in, that I mayn't be stultified! > Dear coolness of heaven, come swiftly and sit in my chairs! > > --Kenneth Koch, *Thank You and Other Poems*, 1962 > > _______________________________________________ From roger Fri Apr 26 03:27:42 2002 From: roger (Roger Greenwald) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:27:42 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] new book & readings from it Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.20020426032742.2e5f596a@pop.chass.utoronto.ca> Dear Friends and Colleagues, Apologies to anyone who receives this twice; I've done all I could to eliminate duplication. I'm pleased to announce the publication of NORTH IN THE WORLD: SELECTED POEMS OF ROLF JACOBSEN A Bilingual Edition translated, edited, and introduced by Roger Greenwald University of Chicago Press, 2002 356 pages. ISBN 0-226-39035-7. Cloth only: US $35; ? 22.50 121 poems by Rolf Jacobsen, drawn from all twelve of his books, in English, with carefully edited Norwegian texts on facing pages; introduction; extensive endnotes; index to titles in both languages; index to first lines in both languages; three photos of Rolf Jacobsen (plus a fourth on the jacket). A detailed description of the book, advance comments, the complete table of contents, and a link to information about ordering are available at http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~roger/niw.html You can read the English versions of three poems at http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/390357.html I will be giving three readings from this book during the month of May. I hope you can attend one of them if you live in or near one of the three cities (see below); please feel free to forward this information to anyone you know in those cities who may be interested. READINGS Monday, May 6th, 7:30 pm. Cambridge, Massachusetts Cambridge Public Library, 449 Broadway. Friday, May 10th, 7:30 pm. Washington, DC Chapters Literary Bookstore, 1512 K Street NW. Monday, May 27th, 8:00 pm. Toronto, Ontario, Canada Bennett Lecture Hall (Room 1039), Flavelle House Faculty of Law, University of Toronto (78 Queen's Park, just south of the planetarium) Thanks, Roger Greenwald From FanwoodJEL Fri Apr 26 16:46:37 2002 From: FanwoodJEL (FanwoodJEL at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:46:37 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Tupelo Press Village Reading Series, Chapter 2 Message-ID: Join Us Sunday, May 5th (7:30 pm) for the second installment in the TUPELO PRESS VILLAGE READING SERIES at Pangea Readers: David Lehman, Monica Ferrell, and Jennifer Michael Hecht, winner of the PSA Norma Farber First Book Award. Dinner after. Hot and cold running spirits, whispering muses. More fortunes told. Solid one-liners. Fancy bookmarks. Pangea Bar & Restaurant ~ 178 Second Avenue, btwn 12th & 11th Streets ~ 212-995-0900 Jeffrey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adead_poet Sat Apr 27 04:28:01 2002 From: adead_poet (jason huff) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 03:28:01 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: it's been some time since i've received anything from the new poetry list. is it just me or has it been that quiet out there? jason _________________________________________________________________ Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From halvard Sat Apr 27 07:52:09 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:52:09 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's just you, Jason. Hal "A sudden silence in the middle of a conversation suddenly brings us back to essentials: it reveals how dearly we must pay for the invention of speech." --E. M. Cioran Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { it's been some time since i've received anything from the new poetry list. { is it just me or has it been that quiet out there? { { jason From halvard Sat Apr 27 08:04:38 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 08:04:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: John Ashbery, "Paradoxes and Oxymorons" Message-ID: Paradoxes and Oxymorons This poem is concerned with language on a very plain level. Look at it talking to you. You look out a window Or pretend to fidget. You have it but you don't have it. You miss it, it misses you. You miss each other. The poem is sad because it wants to be yours, and cannot. What's a plain level? It is that and other things, Bringing a system of them into play. Play? Well, actually, yes, but I consider play to be A deeper outside thing, a dream role-pattern, As in the division of grace these long August days Without proof. Open-ended. And before you know It gets lost in the steam and chatter of typewriters. It has been played once more. I think you exist only To tease me into doing it, on your level, and then you aren't there Or have adopted a different attitude. And the poem Has set me softly down beside you. The poem is you. --John Ashbery, *Shadow Train*, 1981 Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From aburack Sat Apr 27 08:48:30 2002 From: aburack (Alexandra Burack) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 08:48:30 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] new book & readings from it References: <3.0.3.16.20020426032742.2e5f596a@pop.chass.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <002101c1ede9$d5e063a0$8f0653c6@bzln101> Thanks to Roger Greenwald for the opportunity to read Rolf Jacobsen's stunning poems in English. Alexandra Burack Sarah Lawrence College ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Greenwald" To: Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:27 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] new book & readings from it > > > I'm pleased to announce the publication of > > NORTH IN THE WORLD: SELECTED POEMS OF ROLF JACOBSEN > A Bilingual Edition > translated, edited, and introduced by Roger Greenwald > > University of Chicago Press, 2002 > 356 pages. ISBN 0-226-39035-7. > Cloth only: US $35; ? 22.50 > > 121 poems by Rolf Jacobsen, drawn from all twelve of > his books, in English, with carefully edited Norwegian > texts on facing pages; introduction; extensive endnotes; > index to titles in both languages; index to first lines in > both languages; three photos of Rolf Jacobsen (plus a fourth > on the jacket). > > A detailed description of the book, advance comments, > the complete table of contents, and a link to > information about ordering are available at > > http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~roger/niw.html > > You can read the English versions of three poems at > > http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/390357.html > > From Robtberner Sat Apr 27 09:53:18 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:53:18 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] new book & readings from it Message-ID: <1a4.169f374.29fc074e@aol.com> My thanks too to Roger Greenwald for posting the U of Chicago website with its three poems from histranslations of Rolf Jacobsen. But...the book is currently available only in cloth, at $35. That prices-out way too many people, especially students. Is a paperback edition--at a considerably lower price, I hope--due out eventually? Robert Berner From Robtberner Sat Apr 27 17:32:28 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 17:32:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] re.: poets you don't know about yet Message-ID: Just home from the sat. session of the Windham Area Poetry Festival, in Windham, Conn., sponsored by Curbstone Press, the Windham public schools, and the town of Windham.Featured readers included Marilyn Nelson, Gabrielle Zane, Naomi Ayala, George Evans, Steve Straight et al. But the kicker was the kids, damn near fifty of them, aged from 8 to 17, and they were cookin'. So look to your laurels, brothers and sisters. These kids are comin' on and they're gonna kick some butt. Robert Berner From Serbpoet Sat Apr 27 21:24:16 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 21:24:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poets you don't know about yet. Message-ID: "But the kicker was the kids, damn near fifty of them, aged from 8 to 17, and they were cookin'." I had attended this poetry celeb incogno. Such children as have performed are Ginsberg/Brittany Spears self masturbation actors. Lefty Eyeblink Lopes were their dead American goddess. Purity is only a syllable. And yet eack post to this newpoetry seems to cfontain secret message upom me. I praise the god that he has lead me to you. Now at last one's life can begin. All the waiting and loneliness and praying had had riped my fruit. Jesus is not unpoetry. I close my eyes anb praise god outloud that he has sent me toward you. Anna From gmcvay Sat Apr 27 22:19:22 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 22:19:22 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] poets you don't know about yet. References: Message-ID: <3CCB5C28.FEFB88C0@patriot.net> >>>Jesus is not unpoetry.<<< Christ (as it were), now we're into Nagarjuna's Fourfold Negation. But is 7-Up still the Uncola? Did you know that God kills a kitten every time someone writes a self masturbation poem? From Robtberner Sun Apr 28 05:54:53 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:54:53 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] You Had To Be There Message-ID: <15e.ce8e784.29fd20ed@aol.com> It's almost hard to believe that "Serbpoet" and I were present at the same event. She saw "Ginsberg/Brittany [sic] Spears self masturbation actors." I saw nothing of the sort. There were no hooker-costumed Lolitas, no priapic narcissists. What I saw were many young novice poets, most of them fighting hard to overcome their stage-fright, all of them reading poems that represent their first serious efforts at loking at the world and at their position in it. This was not mere MTV titillation. As to the mystical rubbish about secret messages, etc.,if Serbpoet wants to be a bride of Christ, I would say,"Fine. Get thee to a nunnery. There you may recite to your heart's content the ejaculations of Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross. In the meantime, the least you can do is learn to count: purity has three syllables." Robert Berner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvcervantes Sun Apr 28 08:53:26 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:53:26 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Clayton Eshleman Message-ID: <3CCBF0C6.24DA6CFE@earthlink.net> Grand Cascade Out of the mother urn the now ending evers churn, they rhyme only because I am free here in fatal Gladys light. Let my kneeling radiate my aging elfin sails. Inbunched, outerflowered, I am the hiss in this, the ripple wild knoll in which my umbilicus sucks stones. Paradise is part of my inherited billabong, its stagnation, its warpings, are not my own. Dionysus, let me not reduce or simplify, allow me the wavering marginality of imagination, let my fits and bits and catatripe be venomous to the fake. The body is a ruthless tribal compression. Dreaming is less free than imagining, for the dream factory has a quota: certain roles are paid less, someone has always forgotten to oil the compost crank, the elf who runs the umbilical bandsaw is always AWOL. Every perception enters an imaginal file, buds in arrest until swayed by a life-shifting rain or the blight of the news of an unknown person's death. For psyche, all bets are on nothing. A fist slammed against the door reappears as an eel in mourning. A turtle who has just taken the veil becomes the wind-filled sail of a wooden tub in whose sudsy water one discovers one's genitals, eggs to be fried on Caravaggio's canvas. The vague is as crucial as the definitive, the wave a part of the pier. Whose genie does not accordian into Fudd and Marilyn, then rebottle into Lautrec's cognac- vialed cane? Clouds are brains, chryselephantine scrolls, or so the mind registers its Matterhorns half-waking out of dream, when snow and sneezing are as relevant as the cut rose you place in my hand every time you speak. - Clayton Eshleman Boston Review, April/May 2002 James Cervantes: Salt River Review: Poetserv: Homepage: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reading itinerary: From jvcervantes Sun Apr 28 08:58:12 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 05:58:12 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] poets you don't know about yet. References: <3CCB5C28.FEFB88C0@patriot.net> Message-ID: <3CCBF1E4.97068AA9@earthlink.net> Gwyn McVay wrote: > > >>>Jesus is not unpoetry.<<< > > Christ (as it were), now we're into Nagarjuna's Fourfold Negation. But > is 7-Up still the Uncola? > > Did you know that God kills a kitten every time someone writes a self > masturbation poem? Not to mention that purity *is* one syllable if one reads the phrase as a reduction in importance and does not read it literally. - Jim James Cervantes: Salt River Review: Poetserv: Homepage: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reading itinerary: From daisyf1 Sun Apr 28 12:20:38 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:20:38 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy police Message-ID: <20020428.122039.-183731.4.daisyf1@juno.com> "Such children as have performed are Ginsberg/Brittany Spears self masturbation actors." "Did you know that God kills a kitten every time someone writes a self masturbation poem?" Can one, by definition, masturbate anyone besides oneself? Signed, Inquiring Mind Needs to Know P.S. Can it be that Ginsberg has come back as Britney Spears? I thought that belly button looked familiar. From Robtberner Sun Apr 28 13:38:57 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:38:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy police Message-ID: <176.7623cf0.29fd8db1@aol.com> you never heard of a circle -jerk? From gmcvay Sun Apr 28 14:46:52 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy police In-Reply-To: <20020428.122039.-183731.4.daisyf1@juno.com> Message-ID: Daisy, I was going to say something about "self masturbation" too, but then I realized it is perfectly possible to masturbate another person--Webster's says "especially" of oneself, but just defines it as sexual stimulation exclusive of intercourse. So if you provide your friend with a helping hand, as it were, that is other-than-self masturbation. Gwyn, who urges everyone with sufficient bandwidth and software to hop on over to www.ifilm.com and view "The Dildo Song" From Serbpoet Sun Apr 28 20:29:42 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:29:42 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy policy Message-ID: <157.d153ae0.29fdedf6@aol.com> Gwyn, I read every syllables of you're posts and actually heard them in my head spoke straight to myself. What were you trying to do to me I kept thinking. Hurt me? insult me? Test me? I hated you for it but i never forgot to remember BILLIE. Believe In the Lord and Life In Eternity. Otherwise I did not understand this repition. You need my helpto free you from your cage of auto masturbating mindset. Wakeup to it! I worry for you Gwyn. you think you have everythings, you think you can meet all your desires on yourself. if only you understood fully what i am offering to yourself. my love for every one is PURE AND FIERCE. I"ll never desert everyone; accept me and you you'll find yourself acceptinf poetry without a thought. Anna From Rsgwynn1 Sun Apr 28 20:51:26 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:51:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] (no subject) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/27/2002 3:29:07 AM Central Daylight Time, adead_poet at hotmail.com writes: > > it's been some time since i've received anything from the new poetry list. > is it just me or has it been that quiet out there? > > jason Maybe you need to resubscribe. I can't imagine why you haven't been getting messages. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rsgwynn1 Sun Apr 28 20:55:11 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:55:11 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] poets you don't know about yet. Message-ID: <24.249ab13a.29fdf3ef@cs.com> In a message dated 4/27/2002 8:25:13 PM Central Daylight Time, Serbpoet at aol.com writes: > > I had attended this poetry celeb incogno. Such children as have performed > are Ginsberg/Brittany Spears self masturbation actors. Lefty Eyeblink > Lopes > were their dead American goddess. Purity is only a syllable. And yet eack > post to this newpoetry seems to cfontain secret message upom me. I praise > the god that he has lead me to you. Now at last one's life can begin. All > > the waiting and loneliness and praying had had riped my fruit. Jesus is > not > unpoetry. I close my eyes anb praise god outloud that he has sent me > toward > you. > > Anna > __________ You're a good man, Anna. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvcervantes Sun Apr 28 21:15:54 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:15:54 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy policy References: <157.d153ae0.29fdedf6@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCC9ECB.C31754C8@earthlink.net> Dear Anna of a Thousand Days: Bless you, bless you! Save Billie! Save Billie! And all of us who are right or left-handedly pleasuring ourselves in a Buick. - repentedly yours, Jim Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > > Gwyn, I read every syllables of you're posts and actually heard them in my > head spoke straight to myself. What were you trying to do to me I kept > thinking. Hurt me? insult me? Test me? I hated you for it but i never > forgot to remember BILLIE. Believe In the Lord and Life In Eternity. > Otherwise I did not understand this repition. You need my helpto free you > from your cage of auto masturbating mindset. Wakeup to it! I worry for you > Gwyn. you think you have everythings, you think you can meet all your > desires on yourself. if only you understood fully what i am offering to > yourself. my love for every one is PURE AND FIERCE. I"ll never desert > everyone; accept me and you you'll find yourself acceptinf poetry without a > thought. > > Anna > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Serbpoet Sun Apr 28 21:32:56 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:32:56 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy policy Message-ID: <187.7370c28.29fdfcc8@aol.com> gwyn, i know you won't hear me--yet. you're mind is closed your defenses are in the place. it suits you and protects yourself to humiliate myself. help!!!! there's a woman offering me love and the love of the god. BILLIE BILLIE BILLIE. what is i have to do to makes you begin to hear me? only prayer can answer this questions. there's one last things i haveto say to you. i have exploded into you're life as you into mine. it's the steep rocky path. love for always. Anna From daisyf1 Mon Apr 29 10:27:14 2002 From: daisyf1 (Daisy Fried) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:27:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] circles and selves and jerks Message-ID: <20020429.102715.-283173.3.daisyf1@juno.com> Well, dang it all, you learn something new every day. And wasn't there, come to think of it, (responding to previous post) a punk band in the 80s called the Circle Jerks? Signed, Inquiring Mind Appreciative of the Helping Hand >Daisy, >I was going to say something about "self masturbation" too, but then I >realized it is perfectly possible to masturbate another person--Webster's >says "especially" of oneself, but just defines it as sexual stimulation >exclusive of intercourse. So if you provide your friend with a helping >hand, as it were, that is other-than-self masturbation. >Gwyn, who urges everyone with sufficient bandwidth and software to hop on >over to www.ifilm.com and view "The Dildo Song" From gmcvay Mon Apr 29 10:41:02 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] redundancy policy In-Reply-To: <157.d153ae0.29fdedf6@aol.com> Message-ID: My very dear Anna-Billie, "Poetry without a thought" is precisely the problem, it seems. I remain, sir/madam, your humble and obedient servant, Gwyn --- "We share half our genome with the banana. This is more evident in some of my acquaintances than others." Sir Robert May, President of the Royal Society of London From Robtberner Mon Apr 29 17:18:23 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:18:23 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out Message-ID: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> earlier today i sent the following message to ten members of this network at their personal e-mail addresses: are you serbpoet/anna/billie? if so, reply to this message with the single word yes and i will take your secret to my grave. as of this writing, three affirmative replies have come in. will the real serbpoet/anna/billie please stand up? robert berner From gmcvay Mon Apr 29 17:23:35 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out In-Reply-To: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> Message-ID: *sob* I confess. I myself am Billie, and have been entreating myself to be nicer to myself on the list. I will stop this self-masturbation at once. "Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself..." Gwyn --- "We share half our genome with the banana. This is more evident in some of my acquaintances than others." Sir Robert May, President of the Royal Society of London From Arielpf123 Mon Apr 29 17:26:28 2002 From: Arielpf123 (Arielpf123 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:26:28 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out Message-ID: In a message dated 4/29/02 5:19:51 PM, Robtberner at aol.com writes: << as of this writing, three affirmative replies have come in. will the real serbpoet/anna/billie please stand up? robert berner >> it's none of them; its me. From GrahamD Mon Apr 29 17:29:34 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:29:34 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: smokin' him/her out Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E1C@mail.ripon.edu> you're crultie is contine, i see. no matter. i ame who i. and dont mind whose kn ows that. And not even get mention, what a joke myself think better of you all. thank you fore the pain, anyway and always love hear. DG (aka. . . ) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Robtberner at aol.com > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:18 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out > > earlier today i sent the following message to ten members of this > network at their personal e-mail addresses: > > are you serbpoet/anna/billie? if so, reply to this message with > the > single word yes and i will take your secret to my grave. > > as of this writing, three affirmative replies have come in. > will the real serbpoet/anna/billie please stand up? > > robert berner > From jvcervantes Mon Apr 29 17:43:02 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:43:02 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out References: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCDBE65.21923D9E@earthlink.net> David is of the sane woods as sinner Gwyn and will tell his poet lies furever and put on my clothes befor you all. theres onely one me and probably the same for billie. dear sweet billie who I don't know must be crushed to loudness to her her name lik this. hav fun my light still shines on you. I will not cast the stone. thank you Robtberner for asking. - standing Robtberner at aol.com wrote: > > earlier today i sent the following message to ten members of this > network at their personal e-mail addresses: > > are you serbpoet/anna/billie? if so, reply to this message with the > single word yes and i will take your secret to my grave. > > as of this writing, three affirmative replies have come in. > will the real serbpoet/anna/billie please stand up? > > robert berner > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From Arielpf123 Mon Apr 29 18:37:39 2002 From: Arielpf123 (Arielpf123 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:37:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out Message-ID: nobudy be off the sane woods as sinner Gynn who knows no up to good when she sees it.. not you neither Cervantes and graham you better begone fore long engitout fore I raise up yer papa with a big stick. nobudy better say they's me no more, From gudding Mon Apr 29 18:44:37 2002 From: gudding (Gudding) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:44:37 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] what I am reading In-Reply-To: <187.7370c28.29fdfcc8@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020429162656.01fc9420@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> I am reading or have recently read the following items: _Volcanoes_, Alwyn Scarth. This is a refreshing look at the science of volcanoes. Many nice pictures and diagrams. My favorite sentence from this book is "Volcanoes are exciting." This is writing at its best: clear, succinct, and to the point. Very good book about volcanoes. _At Swim-Two Birds_, Flann O'Brien. I have read this book several times. It is my favorite book. _The Third Policeman_, Flann O'Brien. Of those books that I have read only once, this is my favorite book of that class. _Present Past/Past Present: A Personal Memoir_, Eug?ne Ionseco. Translated by Helen R. Lane. A very sad book. _The Modern Ark: The Stories of Zoos, Past, Present, & Future_, Vicki Croke. I have learned from this book that some captive chimpanzees eat their shit. _The Perfect Storm_, Sebastian Unger. This nonfiction book is an account of the Halloween Gale that harmed several fishermen from Gloucester, MA. Of those nonfiction books about the sea that I have read only once, it ranks highly. It is on the level of Willard Bascomb's _Waves and Beaches: The Dynamics of the Ocean Surface_. or Raoul Graumont's _Handbook of Knots_. From alphavil Mon Apr 29 19:11:14 2002 From: alphavil (R.Gancie/C.Parcelli) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:11:14 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out References: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCDD311.537FE6C4@ix.netcom.com> Multiple Personality Disorder (Dissociative Identity Disorder) by Paul R. McHugh Paul McHugh, MD, is Henry Phipps Professor of Psychiatry and Director of the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science at the Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions in Baltimore. Prompted by the unexpected flourishing of this extraordinary diagnosis, students often ask me whether multiple personality disorder (MPD) really exists. I usually reply that the symptoms attributed to it are as genuine as hysterical paralysis and seizures and teach us lessons already learned by psychiatrists more than a hundred years ago. Consider the dramatic events that occurred at the Salpetriere Hospital in Paris in the 1880s. For a time the chief physician, Jean-Martin Charcot, thought he had discovered a new disease he called "hystero-epilepsy," a disorder of mind and brain combining features of hysteria and epilepsy. The patients displayed a variety of symptoms, including convulsions, contortions, fainting, and transient impairment of consciousness. Charcot, the acknowledged master of Parisian neurologists, demonstrated the condition by presenting patients to his staff during teaching rounds in the hospital auditorium. A skeptical student, Joseph Babinski, decided that Charcot had invented rather than discovered hystero-epilepsy. The patients had come to the hospital with vague complaints of distress and demoralization. Charcot had persuaded them that they were victims of hystero-epilepsy and should join the others under his care. Charcot's interest in their problems, the encouragement of attendants, and the example of others on the same ward prompted patients to accept Charcot's view of them and eventually to display the expected symptoms. These symptoms resembled epilepsy, Babinski believed, because of a municipal decision to house epileptic and hysterical patients together (both having "episodic" conditions). The hysterical patients, already vulnerable to suggestion and persuasion, were continually subjected to life on the ward and to Charcot's neuropsychiatric examinations. They began to imitate the epileptic attacks they repeatedly witnessed. Babinski eventually won the argument. In fact, he persuaded Charcot that doctors can induce a variety of physical and mental disorders, especially in young, inexperienced, emotionally troubled women. There was no "hystero-epilepsy." These patients were afflicted not by a disease but by an idea. With this understanding, Charcot and Babinski devised a two-stage treatment consisting of isolation and counter suggestion. First, "hystero-epileptic" patients were transferred to the general wards of the hospital and kept apart from one another. Thus they were separated from everyone else who was behaving in the same way and also from staff members who had been induced by sympathy or investigatory zeal to show great interest in the symptoms. The success of this first step was remarkable. Babinski and Charcot were reminded of the rare but impressive epidemic of fainting, convulsions, and wild screaming in convents and boarding schools that ended when the group of afflicted persons was broken up and scattered. The second step, countersuggestion, was designed to give the patients a view of themselves that would persuade them to abandon their symptoms. Dramatic countersuggestions, such as electrical stimulation of "paralyzed" muscles, proved to be unreliable. The most effective technique was simply ignoring the hysterical behavior and concentrating on the present circumstances of these patients. They were suffering from many forms of stress, including sexual feelings and traumas, economic fears, religious conflicts, and a conviction (perhaps correct) that they were being exploited or neglected by their families. In some cases their distress had been provoked by a mental or physical illness. The hysterical symptoms obscured the underlying emotional conflicts and traumas. How trivial a sexual fear seemed to a patient in whom convulsive attacks produced paralysis and temporary blindness every day! Staff members expressed their withdrawal of interest in hysterical behavior subtly, in such words as, "You're in recovery now and we will give you some physiotherapy, but let us concentrate on the home situation that may have brought this on." These face-saving countersuggestions reduced a patient's need to go on producing hysteroepileptic symptoms in order to certify that her problems were real. The symptoms then gradually withered from lack of nourishing attention. Patients began to take a more coherent and disciplined approach to their problems and found a resolution more appropriate than hysterical displays. The rules discovered by Babinski and Charcot, now embedded in psychiatric textbooks and confirmed by decades of research in social psychology, are being overlooked in the midst of a nationwide epidemic of alleged MPD that is wreaking havoc on both patients and therapists. MPD is an iatrogenic behavioral syndrome, promoted by suggestion, social consequences, and group loyalties. It rests on ideas about the self that obscure reality, and it responds to standard treatments. To begin with the first point: MPD, like hystero-epilepsy, is created by therapists. This formerly rare and disputed diagnosis became popular after the appearance of several best-selling books and movies. It is often based on the crudest form of suggestion. Here, for example, is some advice on how to elicit alternative personalities (alters, as they have come to be called), from an introduction to MPD by Stephen E. Buie, M.D., who is director of the Dissociative Disorders Treatment Program at a North Carolina hospital: "It may happen that an alter personality will reveal itself to you during this [assessment] process, but more likely it will not. So you may have to elicit an alter... You can begin by indirect [sic] questioning such as, 'Have you ever felt like another part of you does things that you can't control?' If she gives positive or ambiguous responses ask for specific examples. You are trying to develop a picture of what the alter personality is like...At this point you may ask the host personality, "Does this set of feelings have a name?"...Often the host personality will not know. You can then focus upon a particular event or set of behaviors. 'Can I talk to the part of you that is taking those long drives in the country?'" Once patients have permitted a psychiatrist to "talk to the part...that is taking these long drives," they are committed to the idea that they have MPD and must act in ways consistent with this self-image. The patient may be placed on a hospital service (often called the dissociative service) with others who have given the same compliant responses. The emergence of the first alter breaches the barrier of reality, and fantasy is allowed free rein. The patient and staff now begin a search for further alters surrounding the so called host personality. The original two or three personalities proliferate into 90 or 100. A lore evolves. At least one alter must be of the opposite sex (Patricia may have Penny but also must have Patrick). Sometimes it is even suggested that one alter is an animal. A dog, cat, or cow must be found and made to speak! Individual alters are followed in special notes for the hospital record. Every time an alter emerges, the hospital staff shows great interest. The search for fresh symptoms sustains the original commitment while cultivating and embellishing the suggestion. It becomes harder and harder for a patient to say to the psychiatrist or to anyone else, "Oh, let's stop this. It's just me taking those long drives in the country." The cause of MPD is supposed to be childhood sexual trauma so horrible that it has to be split off (dissociated) from the host consciousness and lodged in the alters. Patient and therapist begin a search for alters who remember the trauma and can identify the abusers. Thus commitment to the diagnosis of MPD is enhanced by the sense that a crime is being exposed and justice is being done. The patient now has such a powerful vested interest in sustaining the MPD enterprise that it almost becomes an end in itself. Certainly these patients, like Charcot's, have many emotional conflicts and have often suffered traumatic experiences. But everyone is distracted from the patient's main problems by a preoccupation with dramatic symptoms, and perhaps by a commitment to a single kind of psychological trauma. Furthermore, given that treatment may become interminable when therapists concentrate on fascinating symptoms, it is no wonder that MPD is regarded as a chronic disorder that often requires long stretches of time on dissociative units. Charcot removed his patients from the special wards when he realised what he had been inventing. We can do the same. These patients should be treated by the same methods Charcot used--isolation and countersuggestion. Close the dissociation services and disperse the patients to general psychiatric units. Ignore the alters. Stop talking to them, taking notes on them, and discussing them in staff conferences. Pay attention to real present problems and conflicts rather than fantasy. If these simple, familiar rules are followed, multiple personalities will soon wither away and psychotherapy can begin. Paul McHugh on psychiatry today. From jvcervantes Mon Apr 29 19:49:35 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:49:35 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out References: <19b.1812527.29ff129f@aol.com> <3CCDD311.537FE6C4@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3CCDDC0F.ADEEAF6E@earthlink.net> Of course, but Paul R. McHugh says nothing about the mask poets can adopt so adroitly, and with that mask and language fluency comes the ability to mimic almost any voice, even one grounded in a pathological psychological condition. Methinks "Billie/Anna/Serbpoet" is one already among us. - Jim "R.Gancie/C.Parcelli" wrote: > > Multiple Personality Disorder > > (Dissociative Identity Disorder) > > by Paul R. McHugh > > Paul McHugh, MD, is Henry Phipps Professor of Psychiatry and Director of the > Department of > Psychiatry and Behavioral Science at the Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions in > Baltimore. > > Prompted by the unexpected flourishing of this extraordinary diagnosis, students > often ask me > whether multiple personality disorder (MPD) really exists. I usually reply that > the symptoms > attributed to it are as genuine as hysterical paralysis and seizures and teach us etc. From Rsgwynn1 Mon Apr 29 20:30:49 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:30:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out Message-ID: <1a6.18ec22c.29ff3fb9@cs.com> i confession it. i am she or her, as cases may be. Joseph Duemer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mhb Mon Apr 29 20:53:40 2002 From: mhb (matthb) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:53:40 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out In-Reply-To: <1a6.18ec22c.29ff3fb9@cs.com> Message-ID: Why must they/he/she/it be 'smoked out'? Intentionally or no, the Serb poet posts are the funniest things on this list. Every list needs a resident psychotic. -matt From wjbat Mon Apr 29 23:58:42 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:58:42 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out In-Reply-To: <1a6.18ec22c.29ff3fb9@cs.com> Message-ID: <20020429205842.015237@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> wrote: >i confession it. i am she or her, as cases may be. Not me. Not a Cretan, either. Wendy From gmcvay Mon Apr 29 22:06:38 2002 From: gmcvay (Gwyn McVay) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:06:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Matt, Perhaps the original poster meant "smokin' him/her out" as in "providing him/her with a shared evening of marijuana smoking." It couldn't possibly make the style of grammar used any sillier. Gwyn --- "We share half our genome with the banana. This is more evident in some of my acquaintances than others." Sir Robert May, President of the Royal Society of London From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 30 01:01:57 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:01:57 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] John Prine Message-ID: Sessions at West 54th, on the Trio network, has a show this week featuring John Prine. If you love American poetry, check out the performance of this great singer-songwriter. And Iris Dement is there too! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tadrichards Tue Apr 30 01:16:48 2002 From: tadrichards (theoldmole) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:16:48 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out References: <20020429205842.015237@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Message-ID: <006801c1f006$3abcb440$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> So you say, Wendy. We know what all Cretans are. SITUATIONS due out soon! Check for information at http://pages.prodigy.net/tadrichards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Battin" To: Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] smokin' him/her out > wrote: > > >i confession it. i am she or her, as cases may be. > > Not me. > Not a Cretan, either. > > Wendy > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From cstroffo Tue Apr 30 07:42:50 2002 From: cstroffo (Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 04:42:50 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Prine References: Message-ID: <3CCE833A.C5D411A8@earthlink.net> yea, mr. gwynn, we actually agree on something but your flag decal still won't get you into heaven anymore Rsgwynn1 at cs.com wrote: > Sessions at West 54th, on the Trio network, has a show this week > featuring John Prine. If you love American poetry, check out the > performance of this great singer-songwriter. And Iris Dement is there > too! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Serbpoet Tue Apr 30 07:44:26 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:44:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] who it can be? Message-ID: <86.19e877d8.29ffdd9a@aol.com> who it can be? love jesus alway! STORY OF MY EARLY YEARS FOR PROOF Dear Gwyn, I was born in Serbia too poor, nor do I remember the years my father died or who adopted my baby sister to us as I was then probably young. My mother and myself live in small 2 storys house. Our barber was only a block away. The stove was used for heating and cooking both ways. Meals were not scant and I loved pancakes as the most. And however I disliked chicken and still do, but I will eat it if I can't get anything exceptional about it. Once in a while I will drink little beers as child. Oh how good the coffee that could be made by boiling it up!! For Christmas i almost always got poetrys or colored picture of Virgin or famous lifelike statues of saints like movie stars of the silky screen. Though young i did not hate school. But I did tell a teacher who she was a catholic nun that i hate school when in truths it was Nun I meant because of her strict scold to me always. Then i play hooky because of it. So was boxed on ears. As girl i had a very queer ways of playing in the snow with voices. More of that on another days. I also excelled in writing poetrys though poor in geography of earth and distant stars. At six years penned to myself the following opus, a part of it here for further proof of me: vladik was nasty imp and beat to a cat, sonia threw stone in blind mans head, viktor was boy that neglected prayers to Virgin, they have all grown up dead, nobody will cry. Gwyn--who are you to you w/out god? Anna From jvcervantes Tue Apr 30 08:54:01 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 05:54:01 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] who it can be? References: <86.19e877d8.29ffdd9a@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCE93E8.EA7FA079@earthlink.net> Dear Madonna-of-the-Spoof: I have a friend who wants to be a nun. She recently sent me an essay on St. Paul, and mentioned in the accompanying message that her guy and her truck are missing, so I know how it goes. I like how you play with snow in the voices. - yr fan, Jim Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > > who it can be? love jesus alway! > > STORY OF MY EARLY YEARS FOR PROOF > > Dear Gwyn, > > I was born in Serbia too poor, nor do I remember the years my father died or > who adopted my baby sister to us as I was then probably young. > My mother and myself live in small 2 storys house. Our barber was only a > block away. The stove was used for heating and cooking both ways. Meals > were not scant and I loved pancakes as the most. And however I disliked > chicken and still do, but I will eat it if I can't get anything exceptional > about it. > Once in a while I will drink little beers as child. Oh how good the coffee > that could be made by boiling it up!! > For Christmas i almost always got poetrys or colored picture of Virgin or > famous lifelike statues of saints like movie stars of the silky screen. > Though young i did not hate school. But I did tell a teacher who she was a > catholic nun that i hate school when in truths it was Nun I meant because of > her strict scold to me always. Then i play hooky because of it. So was > boxed on ears. > As girl i had a very queer ways of playing in the snow with voices. More of > that on another days. > I also excelled in writing poetrys though poor in geography of earth and > distant stars. > At six years penned to myself the following opus, a part of it here for > further proof of me: > vladik was nasty imp and beat to a cat, > sonia threw stone in blind mans head, > viktor was boy that neglected prayers to Virgin, > they have all grown up dead, nobody will cry. > > Gwyn--who are you to you w/out god? > > Anna > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From JackKerouac25 Tue Apr 30 12:29:39 2002 From: JackKerouac25 (JackKerouac25 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:29:39 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Clayton Eshleman Message-ID: <20.281bd45b.2a002073@aol.com> Howdy listers, I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically working-class southern poetry. I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you can point me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and names of poets would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Jeff N. _____________________________________________________________________ Jeffrey L. Newberry *REMOVED SO AS NOT TO OFFEND* Department of English and Foreign Languages University of West Florida 11000 University Parkway Pensacola, FL 32514 850.474.2923 850.473.7330 From JackKerouac25 Tue Apr 30 12:30:26 2002 From: JackKerouac25 (JackKerouac25 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:30:26 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <5a.ac68cac.2a0020a2@aol.com> Howdy listers, I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically working-class southern poetry. I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you can point me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and names of poets would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Jeff N. _____________________________________________________________________ Jeffrey L. Newberry Adjunct Instructor Department of English and Foreign Languages University of West Florida 11000 University Parkway Pensacola, FL 32514 850.474.2923 850.473.7330 From GrahamD Tue Apr 30 12:48:58 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:48:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E24@mail.ripon.edu> Jeff, you might like to look at Michael Chitwood's *The Weave Room*, from U Chicago (1998). Book description: "The poems in The Weave Room reveal the life of a textile mill as it weathers a decisive social and human moment. Whether speaking in the voice of a weaver trying to quell a crowd about to turn violent over unionization or in his own voice as one of the mill's employees, Chitwood brings together many social and historical threads to show the pattern of a people and a place that has received little treatment in American poetry." ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: JackKerouac25 at aol.com > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:30 AM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry > > Howdy listers, > > I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically > working-class southern poetry. > > I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you can > point > me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and names > of > poets would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Jeff N. > _____________________________________________________________________ > > From Serbpoet Tue Apr 30 13:00:36 2002 From: Serbpoet (Serbpoet at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:00:36 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] working-class southern poetry Message-ID: <161.d04d75c.2a0027b4@aol.com> "I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically working-class southern poetry." These have never produced potery. Stop your search NOW. It is impossible. Gwyn, I flourished in my body as a young girl. I am beautiful even now. Behind our game we play lies a purpose that is neither yours nor mine to question it. Also these numbers of Jeffrey L. Newberry 850.474.2923 850.473.7330 What are they meant to US? I will call them on the compurter if I am forced to. Stop your fruitlessness! Accept God. Anna From jvcervantes Tue Apr 30 13:51:18 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:51:18 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry References: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E24@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: <3CCED996.E9E31824@earthlink.net> Conversely, it would be interesting to see an anthology of poems by independently wealthy poets, and/or those who have never held a job for whatever reason. A separate issue: Is Philip Levine *really* a "working class" poet? - Jim, owner of many blue shirts "Graham, David" wrote: > > Jeff, you might like to look at Michael Chitwood's *The Weave Room*, from U > Chicago (1998). > > Book description: > > "The poems in The Weave Room reveal the life of a textile mill as it > weathers a decisive social and human moment. Whether speaking in the voice > of a weaver trying to quell a crowd about to turn violent over unionization > or in his own voice as one of the mill's employees, Chitwood brings together > many social and historical threads to show the pattern of a people and a > place that has received little treatment in American poetry." > > ======================================== > David Graham > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > Home Page: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > Poetry Library: > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > ======================================== > > > ---------- > > From: JackKerouac25 at aol.com > > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:30 AM > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry > > > > Howdy listers, > > > > I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically > > working-class southern poetry. > > > > I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you can > > point > > me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and names > > of > > poets would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Jeff N. > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From GrahamD Tue Apr 30 14:00:55 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:00:55 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E25@mail.ripon.edu> An anthology of independently wealthy poets probably wouldn't sell--overlapping too much with Vol. I of the Norton Anthology of English Poetry. As for whether Levine's a *real* working class poet, I wouldn't touch that one with a gilded pole. Interesting side-note: does anyone know exactly why Levine eventually replaced his remark on his dust jackets about "stupid jobs" with "industrial jobs"? Has he ever talked about that in an interview, maybe? David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: James Cervantes > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:51 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry > > Conversely, it would be interesting to see an anthology of poems by > independently wealthy poets, and/or those who have never held a job for > whatever reason. > > A separate issue: Is Philip Levine *really* a "working class" poet? > > - Jim, owner of many blue shirts > > "Graham, David" wrote: > > > > Jeff, you might like to look at Michael Chitwood's *The Weave Room*, > from U > > Chicago (1998). > > > > Book description: > > > > "The poems in The Weave Room reveal the life of a textile mill as it > > weathers a decisive social and human moment. Whether speaking in the > voice > > of a weaver trying to quell a crowd about to turn violent over > unionization > > or in his own voice as one of the mill's employees, Chitwood brings > together > > many social and historical threads to show the pattern of a people and a > > place that has received little treatment in American poetry." > > > > ======================================== > > David Graham > > grahamd at mail.ripon.edu > > Home Page: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html > > Poetry Library: > > http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html > > ======================================== > > > > > ---------- > > > From: JackKerouac25 at aol.com > > > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:30 AM > > > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > > Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry > > > > > > Howdy listers, > > > > > > I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, > specifically > > > working-class southern poetry. > > > > > > I realize that this is a vague request, but I hope that some of you > can > > > point > > > me in the right direction. Books of poems, studies of poetry, and > names > > > of > > > poets would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Jeff N. > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New-Poetry mailing list > > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From jvcervantes Tue Apr 30 13:57:37 2002 From: jvcervantes (James Cervantes) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:57:37 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] working-class southern poetry References: <161.d04d75c.2a0027b4@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CCEDB11.1F4C28EF@earthlink.net> Anna: When I was managing an apartment bldg in Seattle in 1971, there was a tenant who came to my apartment to use my phone all the time. He would knock and ask if he could please call Jesus. He would dial a number he had scribbled on a well-worn square of paper and then just listen. Then, after a while he'd say, "Thank you, Jesus," and hang up. I confess I listened but could never hear a voice on the other end, nor did I ever hear a busy signal. What will happen if Gwyn calls Jeffrey L. Newberry? - Jim Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > > "I'm looking for some information about working class poetry, specifically > working-class southern poetry." > > These have never produced potery. Stop your search NOW. It is impossible. > Gwyn, I flourished in my body as a young girl. I am beautiful even now. > Behind our game we play lies a purpose that is neither yours nor mine to > question it. Also these numbers of Jeffrey L. Newberry 850.474.2923 > 850.473.7330 > What are they meant to US? I will call them on the compurter if I am forced > to. Stop your fruitlessness! Accept God. > > Anna > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry From gudding Tue Apr 30 14:25:27 2002 From: gudding (Gabriel M. Gudding) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:25:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry In-Reply-To: <3CCED996.E9E31824@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Brian O'Nolan remarks on a one Jem Casey, a poet of the working class. O'Nolan was especially fond of Casey's poem "Workman's Friend," the subject of which is a glass of porter. Jem Casey was very much about the working classes. Here is the peroration of his finest poem: A WORKIN' MAN, A WORKIN' MAN, Hurray Hurray for a Workin' Man, He'll navvy and sweat till he's nearly bet, THE GIFT OF GOD IS A WORKIN' MAN! Gabe From trbell Tue Apr 30 17:06:58 2002 From: trbell (trbell at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:06:58 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] Poems by others: Clayton Eshleman References: <20.281bd45b.2a002073@aol.com> Message-ID: <002b01c1f08a$f9bab340$6401a8c0@ruthfd1tn.home.com> those are some pretty slippery things to define. I'm someone who comes from a working class background in the north but at the moment I live in the south and I'm not writing poetry today. Johnny Cash is doing some good stuff again and Bobby Dylan? tom bell From JforJames Tue Apr 30 15:24:13 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:24:13 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <174.78d00f5.2a00495d@aol.com> In a message dated 4/30/02 2:02:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, GrahamD at Mail.Ripon.EDU writes: > As for whether Levine's a *real* working class poet, I wouldn't touch that > one with a gilded pole. > > Interesting side-note: does anyone know exactly why Levine eventually > replaced his remark on his dust jackets about "stupid jobs" with "industrial > jobs"? Has he ever talked about that in an interview, maybe? I'll bite (Levine lover that I am); yes and no. Yes, because he's chosen in his work to keep coming back to his personal/family history at a particular time in his life. He continues to honor (& to romanticize) his working class roots. Is Springsteen a working-class rocker? Yes, & no...Yes, his song narratives continue to explore that territory...no, his net worth puts him well beyond the pale of the folks in the picket line. Presumptuously, I'll hazard a guess on his bio note revision.... "Industrial" doesn't have the same derogatory connotation that "stupid" has, even if stated in a self-deprecating fashion... The jobs may have been beneath his intelligence, but he doesn't intend to inadvertently demean those who are still doing the heavy lifting in society. Finnegan From JforJames Tue Apr 30 15:25:58 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:25:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] AllenGinsberg.Org Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:10:04 EDT From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Allen Ginsberg Trust website is up and running Subj: Allenginsberg.org launch Allen Ginsberg Trust/PO Box 582/Stuyvesant Station/N.Y.C., N.Y. 10009 212 358 9534 (fax) 212 358 9529 For Immediate Release www.allenginsberg.org Contacts Bob Rosenthal Rich Forhez The Allen Ginsberg Trust dataWonk, Inc. 212-358-9534 / phone 415-495-1695 / phone 212-358-9529 / fax 415-276-1878 / fax bob at allenginsberg.org rich at datawonk.com www.allenginsberg.org www.datawonk.com Allen Ginsberg Trust launches Web site as platform for sharing text, photos, hand-written documents, and audio and video materials representing Allen Ginsberg's life and times. New York, NY - March 28, 2002 - The Allen Ginsberg Trust of New York and Web development firm dataWonk, Inc. of San Francisco announce the launch of www.allenginsberg.org. "One of Ginsberg's highest callings was to teach, and the Web as a medium offers unprecedented ability to disseminate and impart," says Trust director Bob Rosenthal. He continues, "Allen Ginsberg changed the American language through his poetry. He infused it with a neo-prophetic tone and charged it with candor that even still never bows or winks. He injected Eastern meditative spirituality into the American voice. He jostled us readers out of our daydreams and galvanized us to enact our own liberation. Ginsberg understood that the power of poetry is in its powerlessness; no other poet after Walt Whitman could so awaken the soul." Ginsberg, with Jack Kerouac, William Burroughs, Gregory Corso, Peter Orlovsky, and others, at times shocked a nation and the world with their free-spirited behavior and writings as they met and became friends during America's post-war economic boom. In stark contrast to the country's cultural shift to conservatism, their travels, their antics, their writings, their highly publicized experimentation with psychedelic drugs, all gave voice to one generation while terrifying another. From state courtrooms to the halls of congressional and senatorial hearings to the U.S. Supreme Court, the Beats - as they became known - formed the very foundation for not just a major literary movement but social responsibility, political activism and liberal thought around the world during the later half of the 20th century. At the heart of the site are two exciting features: The Lifeline, a Flash-based chronology of important events about Ginsberg and the Beats, and the Library, a repository intended for research that includes manuscripts, text, audio and video clips, photographs and art works. Launching with a modest volume, the Library is intended to grow substantially over time to included thousands of items, "...so that those wishing to research Ginsberg's life and work would have ample fodder for their own interpretive experience." Please contact Robert Rosenthal at The Allen Ginsberg Trust (212-358-9534 by phone, 212-358-9529 by fax or bob at allenginsberg.org by email) or Rich Forhez at dataWonk, Inc.(415-495-1695 by phone, 415-276-1878 by fax or rich at datawonk.com by email) for more information. The Allen Ginsberg Trust was established a few years prior to Ginsberg's death to manage the tangible and non-tangible assets left behind by the famous Beat poet in an effort to "...continually share his life-work to reveal the intelligence and beauty of his aim of increasing consciousness on the planet." The firm dataWonk, Inc. provides Web and e-commerce strategy, design and development solutions for business-to-business and business-to-consumer challenges. # # # From languagethief Tue Apr 30 15:29:37 2002 From: languagethief (The Old Mole) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [New-Poetry] who it can be? In-Reply-To: <86.19e877d8.29ffdd9a@aol.com> Message-ID: <20020430192937.76787.qmail@web12206.mail.yahoo.com> Gotta wonder what those two stories were.... --- Serbpoet at aol.com wrote: > who it can be? love jesus alway! > > STORY OF MY EARLY YEARS FOR PROOF > > Dear Gwyn, > > I was born in Serbia too poor, nor do I remember the > years my father died or > who adopted my baby sister to us as I was then > probably young. > My mother and myself live in small 2 storys house. > Our barber was only a > block away. The stove was used for heating and > cooking both ways. Meals > were not scant and I loved pancakes as the most. > And however I disliked > chicken and still do, but I will eat it if I can't > get anything exceptional > about it. > Once in a while I will drink little beers as child. > Oh how good the coffee > that could be made by boiling it up!! > For Christmas i almost always got poetrys or colored > picture of Virgin or > famous lifelike statues of saints like movie stars > of the silky screen. > Though young i did not hate school. But I did tell > a teacher who she was a > catholic nun that i hate school when in truths it > was Nun I meant because of > her strict scold to me always. Then i play hooky > because of it. So was > boxed on ears. > As girl i had a very queer ways of playing in the > snow with voices. More of > that on another days. > I also excelled in writing poetrys though poor in > geography of earth and > distant stars. > At six years penned to myself the following opus, a > part of it here for > further proof of me: > vladik was nasty imp and beat to a cat, > sonia threw stone in blind mans head, > viktor was boy that neglected prayers to Virgin, > they have all grown up dead, nobody will cry. > > Gwyn--who are you to you w/out god? > > Anna > > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From Robtberner Tue Apr 30 15:46:48 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:46:48 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] class warfare Message-ID: david graham writes that it would be interesting to see an anthology of stuff by indepently wealthy poets. well how about any volume by james merrill, of the merrills of merrill-lynch? is that independently wealthy enough for you? after that, would you want to read any more such stuff? robert berner From Robtberner Tue Apr 30 16:00:05 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:00:05 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] vote early, vote often Message-ID: as of this writing, i have received 19 confessions in response to my will-the-real-serbpoet/anna/billie-please-stand-up inquiries, almost double the number of letters i sent. this is better than chicago. robert berner From snospx Tue Apr 30 16:53:49 2002 From: snospx (Barry Spacks) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:53:49 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] Re: New-Poetry: claiming Anna In-Reply-To: <200204301959.g3UJx7Q13485@wiz.cath.vt.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020430135349.007b9330@snowcrest.net> At 03:59 PM 4/30/02 -0400, Robert Berner wrote: > as of this writing, i have received 19 confessions in response to my >will-the-real-serbpoet/anna/billie-please-stand-up inquiries, almost double >the number of letters i sent. this is better than chicago. > > robert berner ****** this 19 is what jesus said to our dear Billie on silent phoneline, all is Anna all is dear-luv-Billie all is very Serbo-Croatian all this with no words, in severe silence, who need a words onc being jesus (you see where I'm taking you to, Gwyn?) who it can be? anna sez and love jesus alway! STORY OF MY EARLY YEARS FOR PROOF, she sez, no sweeter sensetence since Goatthru Stein! so no wonder all the claimants, who wax surprise, godless-Gwhyn? this is sending Blessings on to billiespeak, from Indo-Yropean family always with a nice volto to loving as remember "you talkin to me?" of hansom Roger REdfield in the Taxicab movie where he wonders to us from silky screen, so, 'Gwynne you tell me, I'm mastorbator also? this is doubt full but i acept to bury my cross nonethe less THE langwidg is my ice creamed! Gwyn, Gwynne, you rsist, I understand, but face it THIS make jesus no nevermine -- Another Anna-lover for Nader From GrahamD Tue Apr 30 16:58:40 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:58:40 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E26@mail.ripon.edu> No, 'twasn't me said it'd be interesting to have an antho by independently wealthy poets. I said we already HAVE such an anthology: it's called the canon. At least it *was* the canon, before we started letting in riffraff like Villon, I suppose. And now Levine. Geez! But let's not bash the wealthy any more than we glorify the workers just *because* of their cash flow. I find James Merrill largely not to my taste, it's true, but that's due to his style, not his bankroll. I like Emily Dickinson rather a lot, and she lived in considerable comfort. ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: Robtberner at aol.com > Reply To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:46 PM > To: new-poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > Subject: [New-Poetry] class warfare > > david graham writes that it would be interesting to see an anthology of > > stuff by indepently wealthy poets. well how about any volume by james > merrill, of the merrills of merrill-lynch? is that independently wealthy > enough for you? after that, would you want to read any more such stuff? > robert berner > _______________________________________________ > New-Poetry mailing list > New-Poetry at wiz.cath.vt.edu > http://wiz.cath.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/new-poetry > > From GrahamD Tue Apr 30 17:03:57 2002 From: GrahamD (Graham, David) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:03:57 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] John Prine Shrine Message-ID: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E27@mail.ripon.edu> Knowing that there are other John Prine fans in the congregation, I cannot help forwarding the following--news of the Prine Shrine, with website, email newsletter, and more. David Graham ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > ---------- > From: prineshrine > Reply To: John_Prine_Shrine-owner at yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:59 PM > To: John_Prine_Shrine at yahoogroups.com > Subject: John Prine Shrine Newsletter & Erratic Ramblings New Dates > Added > > > > Hey Prine Fans.... > It's time for some erratic ramblings: > > For the past few days I've been updating the Tour Dates section in > the Prine Shrine http://www.jpshrine.org/ontour.html and think I have > found just about all the proper links and ticket information for > now - so take a look: > > 5/17 Coronado Theater, Rockford, IL > 5/18 Weidner Center, Green Bay, WI > 5/24 Mountain Winery, Saratoga, CA > 5/25 Mt. Aire Music Fest, Calaveras Cty, CA > 5/31 Wolf Trap, Vienna, VA > 6/01 Mann Music Center, Philadelphia, PA > 8/02 Usher Hall, Edinburgh, Scotland > 8/04 Cambridge Folk Festival, Cambridge, England > 8/16 Gerald Ford Amphitheater, Vail, CO > 8/17 Rocky Mountain Folks Festival, Lyons, CO > 8/23 Washington Pavilion, Sioux Falls, SD > 8/24 Minnesota Zoo Amphitheatre, Minneapolis, MN > 8/30 Columbus Zoo Amphitheatre, Columbus, OH > > I hope this brings a smile to some of your faces... (and the rest > of you - just patiently mumble something dirty in Hawaiian, I'm > confident that there will be more dates to add soon) > > I finally finished the "Souvenirs" section in the Shrine > http://www.jpshrine.org/souvenirs and you might enjoy looking at the > online collection of John Prine paraphernalia. Anyone with any > information on items there are welcome help me update anything. Those > items posted are not for sale in the Prine Shrine, but, some of the > items are still available at Oh Boy Records http://www.ohboy.com - > just check out their Company Store and Store Annex. > > John's concert tour is going great, I do hope that you get a chance > to get out there an hear him. I have heard from quite a few people > who have said "It's the best concert I ever seen" (of course, this > seems to be the reaction to any Prine concert anyone has ever seen) > Just take a road trip this summer to see a show, explore a new town > and meet some other Prine fans. > > If you've gotten to hear Todd Snider opening for John, then you've > probably become an instant fan. Stop by his site at Oh Boy Records > http://www.ohboy.com/toddhome.html and check out his new CD coming > out May 14 - Oh Boy is taking pre-orders (check the company store > http://www.ohboy.com/compstore/ohboy.htm), and rush to get your pre- > order in, The CD is absolutely fantastic. Not only will it make two > of the Shrine's Prine lists ('Albums Prine is mentioned on' > and 'Albums Prine appears on') but it is one of those well rounded > albums that takes you on an emotional roller coaster ride. I just > can't say enough good things if I wasn't grinning at 'Statiticians > Blues', 'Easy', 'Vinyl Records', or 'Beer Run' then I was getting all > misty eyed at 'Waco Moon' and of course, the duet between Prine and > Snider on 'Crooked Piece of Time' is so beautifully done that it is > worth the price of the CD itself. David Jacques, Jason Wilber, Will > Kimbrough, Paul Griffith do some fabulous playing along with vocals > by Kim Richey. Do yourself a favor and go listen to the clips at Oh > Boy... with the exception of Prine's song - It's all original stuff > from Todd and just amazing....'nuff said. > > Here is one more thing, for all you trivia buffs: That car on > the cover of "Sweet Revenge" is a 1959 Porsche Sporster. I've been > asked for years and finally got the answer (I bow to you Billy!) > > Again, Thank you for all your comments, stories, suggestions and help > with the Prine Shrine - it is greatly appreciated and needed. As much > as I search and bother people for information, I still wouldn't be > able to find it all without your help. > > and for now... > the rambling ends. > Reeda > > > > > Thank you, > Reeda aka PMS*red > webmistress of the John Prine Shrine > http://www.jpshrine.org > > John Prine Shrine Tour Information > http://www.jpshrine.org/ontour.html > Get your Prine paraphernalia at OhBoy! Records > http://www.ohboy.com > > Addresses: > Just send a blank email > Subscribe: John_Prine_Shrine-subscribe at yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe by email: John_Prine_Shrine-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > URL to this page: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/John_Prine_Shrine > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > From JforJames Tue Apr 30 17:13:16 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:13:16 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare Message-ID: All poets are privileged, don't you think? Finnegan From JforJames Tue Apr 30 17:21:09 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:21:09 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: In a message dated 4/30/02 12:33:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JackKerouac25 at aol.com writes: > working-class southern poetry. Kate Daniels has written poems related to her experiences growing up in a poor working class family. Finnegan From halvard Tue Apr 30 17:39:08 2002 From: halvard (Halvard Johnson) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:39:08 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare In-Reply-To: <4BBBE1EC8182D511BF9800508BBD7599E86E26@mail.ripon.edu> Message-ID: { But let's not bash the wealthy any more than we glorify the workers just { *because* of their cash flow. I find James Merrill largely not to my taste, { it's true, but that's due to his style, not his bankroll. I like Emily { Dickinson rather a lot, and she lived in considerable comfort. And let's not forget Dan Gerber, who, I've heard tell, is of the baby food fortune, and he turned some of that money into a long-running little mag and press called *Sumac* a few years back. Merrill, of course, funded a foundation that many less fortunate scribes have benefited from, did he not? Hal "Arbeit macht das Leben s?ss." Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard at earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard From Thom424 Tue Apr 30 18:11:58 2002 From: Thom424 (Thom424 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:11:58 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: working class lit/anthologies Message-ID: _Working Classics_. Ed. Peter Oresick & Nicholas Coles. (Univ. Illinois Press, 1990). _For a Living : the Poetry of Work_. Ed. by Nicholas Coles & Peter Oresick. (University of Illinois Press,1995). _An American Mosaic : Prose and Poetry by Everyday Folk_ Ed. Robert Wolf. (Oxford University Press, 1999). Mostly writing by non-academics/non-MFA grads. _Calling Wome : Working-Class Women's Writings_. Edited Janet Zandy (Rutgers University Press,1990). There are Southern writers among the many anthologized in these collections. Paul Lauter has written a great deal about working-class literature, and _The Heath Anthology of American Literature_, under his general editorship, reflects his working-class interests. Thom Tammaro Moorhead, MN From Rsgwynn1 Tue Apr 30 18:29:49 2002 From: Rsgwynn1 (Rsgwynn1 at cs.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:29:49 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Working Class Poets and Poetry Message-ID: <97.26dade86.2a0074dd@cs.com> Check out Cathy Smith Bowers. She's pretty good. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wjbat Tue Apr 30 21:36:17 2002 From: wjbat (Wendy Battin) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:36:17 -0700 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020430183617.010808@oak.cc.conncoll.edu> Halvard Johnson wrote: >Merrill, of course, funded a foundation that many less fortunate scribes >have benefited from, did he not? He did indeed. signed, Grateful in Mystic From daisyf1 Tue Apr 30 19:00:17 2002 From: daisyf1 (daisyf1 at juno.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:00:17 GMT Subject: [New-Poetry] working class poems Message-ID: <20020430.160112.9308.7960@webmail1.wlv.untd.com> Hayden's Ferry Review put out an issue devoted to writing about work in, I'm going to say, the last two, maybe three, years. It had some excellent stuff in it. Daisy Fried From grahamd Tue Apr 30 20:53:38 2002 From: grahamd (David Graham) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:53:38 -0500 Subject: [New-Poetry] RE: class warfare Message-ID: <200205010053.g410r4m30890@mx8.mx.voyager.net> And let's not forget James Laughlin, a rich kid who took Ezra Pound's advice to back-burner his own merely OK poetry and start up a little press. He had a huge impact on American publishing. David Graham (alas, not connected to the Sylvester Graham cracker fortune) ======================================== David Graham grahamd at mail.ripon.edu Home Page: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/index.html Poetry Library: http://www.ripon.edu/faculty/GrahamD/poetrylib.html ======================================== > >And let's not forget Dan Gerber, who, I've heard tell, is of the baby food >fortune, and he turned some of that money into a long-running little mag and >press called *Sumac* a few years back. > >Merrill, of course, funded a foundation that many less fortunate scribes >have benefited from, did he not? > >Hal "Arbeit macht das Leben s?ss." From JforJames Tue Apr 30 20:57:15 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:57:15 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] f-lux Message-ID: f-lux internet magazine for literature f-lux is a new magazine for literature, a publication which seeks to present previously unissued poetry and prose on the Internet. This project has been brought to life by Christian Genzel and Judith Haudum as part of a proseminar at the Department of English and American Studies at the University of Salzburg, Austria. Although the first issue is designed to be a one-off publication due to its connection to the course, f-lux will be continued if possible. The idea behind f-lux is that literature can be a source of light, guiding people on their journeys, similar to the lighthouse which directs the ship on its course. In both cases, lux is the element which leads you towards a certain destination whether you are travelling physically or via a flux of thoughts. The flux implies a state of change which allows you to alter your perception, either concerning literature or the individual self. The first issue of f-lux intends to collect "impressions from a distance", where authors can present their individual views on what they think is important in people's lives. The resulting collection, which includes prose and poetry, experimental and traditional, will picture various aspects of reality describing the world not necessarily the way it is, but the way it might be perceived. The editors of f-lux invite everybody who is interested to send in submissions which will be considered for publication in the first issue. Since f-lux collaborates with the renowned literature magazine Poetry Salzburg Review (formerly The Poet's Voice), published by Poetry Salzburg (www.poetrysalzburg.com, formerly Salzburg University Press), all submissions will also be taken into account for Poetry Salzburg Review No. 4 by its editor, Wolfgang G?rtschacher (unless the author explicitly objects to this), regardless of whether f-lux accepts them or not. The requirements for submissions are that ... ? they are written in English, ? they are previously unpublished, ? they relate to the first issue's topic, "impressions from a distance". Please include a bio/ bibliographical note and send your texts via email to f_lux1 at yahoo.com. The deadline for all submissions is April 30, 2002. The first issue of f-lux will be available at www.f-lux1.tk by the end of May 2002. If there are any further questions, comments or suggestions, feel free to contact the f-lux team at f_lux1 at yahoo.com. Looking forward to your contributions, Christian Genzel & Judith Haudum From JforJames Tue Apr 30 21:25:08 2002 From: JforJames (JforJames at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:25:08 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] Geo. Bradley poem Message-ID: <72.1bb155e5.2a009df4@aol.com> Zen of the Great Dismal Swamp Neck-deep in the palus of particulars -- Thrust in fecundity and rot, the liquefaction Of flesh animal and vegetable, all but submerged In spasm, the start of prey from inevitable attack, In frenzy, opposed imperatives of lust and fear, Inside the kaleidescopic vision of repetitious fact -- Denizens, clutched by weedy circumstance, must tread Muck furiously simply to survive and so rarely Manage breaching or the great leap vigorous Enough to comprehend the nature of their confine, Behold its great extent, define their site sufficiently To perceive the not unshapely state they're in . . . . We try. Long ago and far away, a prince Dressed as a beggar sat beneath a tree until The cyclic seamlessness around him seemed Distant as the sun, detached more than the moon, So removed as to be beautiful, a blaze of light and love. In that instant the prince smiled and became A god, became a statue and the statue's story And ceased all other manner of becoming. Meanwhile, outside the palace where the prince Had left behind particulars of wife and child, The diseased creatures whose mere existence Had provoked long search and great revelation Shifted on the marble, scratched persistent sores, Peered each in his cup to count the blessings of that day. From Robtberner Tue Apr 30 22:35:31 2002 From: Robtberner (Robtberner at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:35:31 EDT Subject: [New-Poetry] was arbeit macht Message-ID: <32.2639bba8.2a00ae73@aol.com> muede robert berner From acgold01 Tue Apr 30 23:15:58 2002 From: acgold01 (Alan C Golding) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:15:58 -0400 Subject: [New-Poetry] Working-class Southern poetry Message-ID: Jeff, I'd recommend C. D. Wright--relevant material running through the last four or five books (well, I guess not *Just Whistle*) but esp. *Deepstep Come Shining* and poems in *String Light*. Alan